Did anything change today?
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 03, 2011 
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Andy Pettitte has decided to retire. The decision was announced this afternoon, and Pettitte will make it official tomorrow morning. Any hope of a comeback is gone.
But has anything about the Yankees really changed?
Since the very beginning of this frigid winter, Brian Cashman has insisted that Pettitte’s uncertainty would not impact the Yankees offseason. Pettitte had been honest with the Yankees, Cashman said. Pettitte told them he was leaning toward retirement, and the team should move forward with the assumption that he wouldn’t be back.
Cashman said he would do exactly that. He might hold out some hope for Pettitte, but he would not wait for him.
Today, it feels as if something changed. It feels as if the Yankees lost another piece of their dream rotation, but in reality, it was only hope that was lost this afternoon. If Cashman was being honest in all of those interviews about Pettitte, then nothing about his offseason — or the Yankees situation — actually changed today. If Cashman has been moving forward with the assumption that Pettitte would not come back, then the finality of today’s announcement has no impact.
There’s no increased need to make a trade, no increased desire to sign someone like Kevin Millwood and no increased likelihood that Dellin Betances suddenly shoots to the big leagues.
The Yankees should not be any different today than they were yesterday.
But they certainly feel different.
“But has anything about the Yankees really changed?”
Yes, they officially became a long shot for the playoffs.
Yes, they officially became a long shot for the playoffs.
–
Wanna bet?
Laura no longer 100 percent
Quickly batting 0 on the 2011 season.
This analysis is very incorrect. Something did change today: the reasonable hope that Pettitte might come back has now been crushed like cheap tin can. Yanks are doomed. Doomed!
Look at all the arbitrary endpoints you like, the fact of the matter is, Phil Hughes did an outstanding job in his first full year of starting.
18-8, 4.19 ERA, 4.25 FIP over 176.1 innings
Doesn’t matter how you slice it, that’s a great year for a 24 year old in his first full season of starting. He’s only going to get better…
“he was good against a toasted Twins team”
———————
Doesn’t seem very Twins-like to get high before a game.
Patrick, I just know how this always works. Teams, no matter how badly they may want to shed payroll, have no desire to help the Yankees. They will demand their best prospects for a mediocre pitcher- that’s how it has been and always will be.
—
Bobby Abreu, Corey Lidle, Nick Swisher, Curtis Granderson, Lance Berkman, Austin Kearns, Kerry Wood were all traded to the Yankees for below market value in part due to payroll reasons.
Although this may explain some of randy’s ramblings and his affinity for the Twins org.
They share the same “habit”
I guess nothing has changed since I never really thought Andy was coming back, but this just makes it all the more real.
Patrick, but we’re talking about trying to get a good pitcher………..
Why are Hughes’ good games discounted and his bad games are now the benchmark to judge his season.
I can never understand that.
If he had his season A’s a Red Sox, the same folks complaining about him daily on here would be telling all of us how good he is and how bright his future will be.
“Doesn’t matter how you slice it, that’s a great year for a 24 year old in his first full season of starting.”
I’d say a very good year rather than a great year, but OK.
“He’s only going to get better…”
We hope. But many good young pitchers take a step back before they take two steps forward. I hope that’s not the case with Phil.
Anyway, that doesn’t explain Cash’s comments recently about how he’d much rather get a pitcher now instead of then………..but then maybe Buster is wrong; he usually is
@Betsy
All the games count. And by all accounts, Phil Hughes had a very good season for his first full year starting for the Yankees. Pitching for this team in this environment is simply harder than in other places. He showed not only the stuff, but the mental makeup to compete under the microscope at a young age. He certainly did better than what I was hoping for out of him. I am looking forward to an even better season this year, and see no reason why it will not happen.
I don’t think you realize how special it is that a 23 year-old kid came in and did the job that he did last year.
Be happy with it, and hopefully we can cherish watching the next Yankee great for many years to come.
“Wanna bet?”
I’m currently unemployed so I’ll have to pass. I think that the offense is capable of getting them some wins, but IMO our rotation is a little too thin to pull off a miracle. Just my opinion.
“Why are Hughes’ good games discounted and his bad games are now the benchmark to judge his season. ”
I don’t believe anyone was doing that. Not moi for sure.
I’m currently unemployed so I’ll have to pass. I think that the offense is capable of getting them some wins, but IMO our rotation is a little too thin to pull off a miracle. Just my opinion.
–
I’ll bet you the brownies Chip and some other guy owe me from the Jeter debacle that the Yankees make the playoffs. If they make the playoffs you send me cookies/brownies.
That is because many people still believed in their heart of hearts that
AP would return for one more season.
I felt that way, or at least hoped that way, for quite a while.
It has only been recently that I began to back away from the table and divest myself of that emotion and belief.
There is no denying that the Yankees would have been better off if AP were pitching for them again this season but that’s his choice, and this is the hand we have been dealt.
I wish Andy and his family nothing but the best. I hope he enjoys his family and his retirement. He has been a great Yankee.
Now it’s time to focus on that hand we have been dealt.
It’s not what we would have all wished for but it is not terrible either.
We have to hope that AJ can improve; That some guys step up; And that if all else fails Cashman can make a trade by the deadline.
Try to focus on the positives and hope that the negatives do not materialize in full force. It’s all you can do.
Even if the worst should happen and we happen to fall out of contention. It’s only this season. Next year we’ll be right back in the thick of things.
On the other hand, we may get lucky and things fall right and we wind up in the PS again.
No one knows which outcome will occur. No one.
There’s a lot to look forward to in Yankeeland. Now and in the future.
There are 162 games in a season. It’s long and always full of surprises.
My apologies for the length of this post.
I don’t get the panic that Yankee fans are experiencing when it concerns our pitching staff.
If the 5 starters are Sabathia, Burnett, Hughes, Garcia and Nova and all 5 pitch to their career average numbers you have the following:
Sabathia – 3.57 ERA
Burnett – 3.99 ERA
Hughes – 4.20 ERA
Garcia – 4.13 ERA
Nova – 4.50 ERA
Is that so terrible?
We hope. But many good young pitchers take a step back before they take two steps forward. I hope that’s not the case with Phil.
–
Does this apply for a pitcher entering his 5th year in the majors?
My own arbitrary evaluation of Phil Hughes’ season.
He only threw 105 innings in 2009.
His first 106 innings of the season: 3.91
Next 70: 5.27
He was clearly tired. It’s clear. As long as he is not tired he is not a question mark. No other way to look at it.
Heartfelt post, MTU. Good job.
New bets are not recommended until old losing bets have been paid off.
Patrick, but we’re talking about trying to get a good pitcher………..
—
So what’s the difference?
Ok, so what are your thoughts on Wade Davis? Did he have a great year?
SJ, you may think that, but that’s just a way of dismissing people who have some doubts about Phil. I doubt Wave would change his opinion about Phil had he been on the Sox and I know I would not have.
“Does this apply for a pitcher entering his 5th year in the majors?”
but only 57 games and one full year as a starter. I certainly hope Phil is an exception to the rule, which may not really be a rule at all.
Nick in SF-
We should have made an Andy Pettitte bet last season when you and I discussed Andy Pettitte………….
Patrick, the difference is that teams are going to be more reluctant to deal good starting pitchers………you know how the Yankee tax goes. How good of a pitcher are we going to get at the deadline without giving up some of our best assets?
Phil Hughes will be fine for the first 176 innings next year.
After that? Disaster waiting to happen!
“New bets are not recommended until old losing bets have been paid off.”
I hear you loud and clear, Nick.
Well said MTU
Anyway, that doesn’t explain Cash’s comments recently about how he’d much rather get a pitcher now instead of then………..but then maybe Buster is wrong; he usually is
—
Well sure he’d rather have a pitcher now. Wouldn’t you rather have someone on the team through spring training, April, May, June rather than waiting till July? The problem is, no team is going to make a trade this time of year. We don’t know what teams are going to fall out of contention or decide they want to shed payroll.
Erica, I am glad we didn’t.
Hman, I respectfully disagree about his year, but that’s ok. It’s 2011 now – we’ll see how it goes
“all 5 pitch to their career average numbers”
Well that’s the rub isn’t it?
Gotta go, it’s been fun.
SJ…..I can’t comment on Young Master Hughes as there’s a gag order in place….However I look forward to 2012 when He’ll be a Cy Young candidate waiting to happen
“We hope. But many good young pitchers take a step back before they take two steps forward. I hope that’s not the case with Phil.”
—
For example….. ?
“I’d say a very good year rather than a great year, but OK.”
—
Use whatever adjective you want
“New bets are not recommended until old losing bets have been paid off.”
—————————–
Bret the Hitman already skipped town on you.
I think you may be in need of some muscle buddy.
Not sure why people are doubting Phil Hughes. I think the bigger question mark is wacko AJ and whoever the guys are in the 4th and 5th spots. Grammer question – should that be whomever? I never use those two words correctly.
After that? Disaster waiting to happen!
–
Only if he is playing the blue jays or in the ALCS.
This is not the 1st time that Chamberlain had the opportunity to step up and make his feelings known about returning to a starting role. He’s content with mediocrity.
It’s clear as a bell that middle relief is where he’ll be as Cashman has said all winter.
WYH-
Thank you.
It was a bit long though.
Patrick, the difference is that teams are going to be more reluctant to deal good starting pitchers………you know how the Yankee tax goes. How good of a pitcher are we going to get at the deadline without giving up some of our best assets?
—-
No I don’t know how the Yankee tax goes because I don’t think it exists.
Obviously if you want a great pitcher you have to give some stuff up. What’s the problem with that? The point is, there will be pitchers available at the deadline, there always are.
Ok, so what are your thoughts on Wade Davis? Did he have a great year?
–
Compared to Hughes he was worse.
Now, let`s give some of the Young guys in the system a shot at starting. Let it all playout this spring.
Betsy,
You have consistently said the Blue Jays have terrific young pitching. Ricky Romero sure.
2010 other guys:
Cecil: 4.22 ERA
Morrow: 4.49
Rzepczynski: 4.95
You have to admit you can put other teams on a pedestal while devaluing Yankee players.
Ok, so what are your thoughts on Wade Davis? Did he have a great year?
—-
Hughes had a better season than Wade Davis
I feel like we’ve had this exact same conversation before…..
Sabathia – 3.57 ERA
Burnett – 3.99 ERA
Hughes – 4.20 ERA
Garcia – 4.13 ERA
Nova – 4.50 ERA
—————
Garcia’s hasn’t been anywhere near the same pitcher he was in Seattle or his 1st White Sox stint. He is well past his 4.13 ERA days. He is slightly below average now (which is fine for a #5 anyway).
Nova has no body of work at all to really go by. It might not even be him who ends up in the rotation out of ST either.
Burnett… I think most people would be satisfied if he put up the type of numbers Lackey did last year (200 innings, 4.40 ERA). I don’t think I’d bet on him being a #2-3.
Blake-
Thanks.
Let’s let the season unfold a bit before anyone pronounces our season over.
I’m not ready to pull out my crystal ball, tarot cards, or oujia board
just yet.
Although I will walk under my lucky horse shoe and bring out my lucky rock immediately.
To categorize Wade Davis’s 2010 as anything but a disappointment thus far would be foolish. Wade Davis’s 2010 has not been what anyone was hoping for or expecting. Thus far, in 134 IP, Wade has put together a 4.29 ERA, 5.10 FIP, and 4.96 xFIP.
http://www.draysbay.com/2010/9.....-pitch-f-x
Ok so AP retires and now it seems like everyone is just giving up on the season already. I know I’m not the only one who thinks that this team has what it takes to make it all the way. Just think how much sweeter it would be to win this year knowing that on paper the Red Sox look like the better team and the Phillies have a strong rotation. I’m ready for #28
Morrow was a completely different pitcher for the Jays after about June or so. He started off terribly then become a beast
MTU, good post. I beg to ask, have you always been so long-winded or is it you’re just full of hot air?
Davis’ numbers look good for 2010, especially for his age an experience. Not as good as Hughes’ though.
With 6 innings and 3 earned runs being classified as a ‘quality start’, that makes 4.50 as the new baseline for a successful starting pitcher in baseball.
A 6.00 ERA is 4 runs in 6 innings and any of the Yankees rotation, even Mitre, will pitch better than that.
Does anyone on this blog truly believe that the Yankees, with the shutdown bullpen now in place, can’t win 95-100 games if their starters averaged 6 innings and between 3 and 4 runs a start?
They will be fine for the regular season but will need better starting pitching for the postseason, which is a long time from now.
Morrow was a completely different pitcher for the Jays after about June or so. He started off terribly then become a beast
–
First 15 games era: 4.50
Next 11 games era: 4.50
August – September ERA: 4
he had one really, really badass August game where he struck out 17 rays and gave up 1 hit.
Davis is older than Hughes as well.
JCPD-
Not usually I hope.
I felt I needed to bring out the heavy artillery on this one though.
We don’t lose an AP every day.
That would burst a lot of people’s hot air baloon.
I hope I helped buck up those who needed it.
Jerkface, their #s are very similar….but if you think he wasn’t all that good, then how good was Phil? Also, I think he’s only 1 year older…..
LGY, no I don’t have to admit it.
They had Marcum last year also………..and Morrow finished very strongly. I wasn’t counting the Rzepcynski.
“Although this may explain some of randy’s ramblings and his affinity for the Twins org.”
you mean that team that has pavano ,liriano, baker,duensing, and slowey starting for about 18 million this year total this year.
the same one that out pitched yankee starters last year.
twin salaries have gone through the roof this year though. now they are actually 1.5 million more than the yankees pay aj burnett.
3,2,1 blog blows up .
don’t blame me lgy made me do it
Jerkface, their #s are very similar….but if you think he wasn’t all that good, then how good was Phil? Also, I think he’s only 1 year older…..
–
Well, Davis pitched less innings in the same # of starts, gave up more hits, the same amount of HRs, just as many flyballs, walked more, and struck out less.
Andy is as much a part of the starting rotation today as he was yesterday.
What has changed is the level of angst about it.
Had to give you a hard time MTU. You’re right, we don’t lose an AP everyday, but my gut tells me we’ll be losing a JP at the end of the year as well.
Jerkface, he finished very strongly if I recall – and his ERA is barely more than Phil’s. I never said Davis was great, but if he wasn’t that good, then you can’t say Phil was.
and Morrow finished very strongly
–
In the same time period where Morrow finished out his season with a 4 ERA, hughes had a 3 ERA.
The issue is they shut down Morrow Sept 3, Hughes pitched up and above.
Davis pitched less than 6 per start last year, struck out only 6.1 per 9, and gave up 1.3 HR/9 in a pitcher friendly park.
Hughes was significantly better than Davis last year.
Call me when the Twins can win a single playoff game against the Yankees. Until then I don’t give a crap about their rotation made up solely of 4 and 5 starters.
JCPD-
Yes. Most likely. But we might add a JM.
See. I told you I am a born optimist.
“3,2,1 blog blows up .”
—————————-
randy,
You toasted right now?
MTU,
Good post. The “hot air” was from those healthy lungs from mountain hiking.
You are correct that we don’t know what will happen. We never do. So many players I thought would be good, weren’t. Yes, Javy you would be one. While others greatly exceeded my expectation such as Swisher.
I wanted another solid pitcher. Instead I will hope for another surprise or two. Why not? I’ve supported far, far worse.
Jerkface, he finished very strongly if I recall – and his ERA is barely more than Phil’s. I never said Davis was great, but if he wasn’t that good, then you can’t say Phil was.
–
He pitched well in September? September performance can be an illusion, as I’ve said you place a heavy leaning on ‘finishing strong’.
And I can very well say he wasn’t as good as Phil and Phil was better. Phil had better peripherals across the board.
“What has changed is the level of angst about it.
”
The majority of this blog thought he was coming back. Maybe it was wishful thinking or overreaction to Heyman’s “working out” tweets, but I don’t think many thought he was actually retiring. Thus, that’s where most of the optimism stemmed from, I guess.
LGY, keep in mind that around mid-May, Phil’s K’s diminished – he clearly wasn’t striking out as many as he had been.
Next year randy will hail Brian Cashman’s genius when we consider how low the Yankee payroll is at the catcher position compared to that of the Twins.
Ok Betsy you’re right, Phil Hughes is a bad pitcher and he’s never going to improve. Can we move on now?
Hughes has a strong September in 2007 and a good performance in the ALDS.
LGY, keep in mind that around mid-May, Phil’s K’s diminished – he clearly wasn’t striking out as many as he had been.
–
Which is reflected in his K/9 average over the entire year. Which was better than Davis’
Ok Jerkface, it actually doesn’t matter to me about Davis that much. We won’t agree on how good Phil was last year and in a couple of months it won’t matter because it starts all over again
You toasted right now?
lgy-
no toast for me. i used up all my innings in the 60″s.
nothing has changed in regards to our rotation since andy wasnt signed anyway, but its the end of era. It’s a lot to digest.
“I’m not upset because we lost a starting pitcher. I’m upset because the starting pitcher we lost is Andy Pettitte” – the last line of this article http://espn.go.com/espnw/blog/.....y-pettitte
Patrick, we can move on mostly because I didn’t say that. There’s no point in continuing anyway since you just love to twist my words around. Have a nice day!
Betsy have you ever said a single positive thing about Phil Hughes?
“Next year randy will hail Brian Cashman’s genius when we consider how low the Yankee payroll is at the catcher position compared to that of the Twins.”
nick in sf-
would you trade montero for mauer even up?
Austin-
We both did. Many people did.
This is our hand for the time being.
Maybe when we draw next our hand will improve.
Our current set of cards still give a good chance of winning.
No reason to fold now. Play the games.
“Did anything change today?”
——————————-
Absolutely not. The 2011 Yankees are STILL screwed because their GM is still an F-ing moron! All today is exactly as it was yesterday.
“Call me when the Twins can win a single playoff game against the Yankees. Until then I don’t give a crap about their rotation made up solely of 4 and 5 starters.”
patrick-
call you?
you haven’t answered the phone since you said it was a good idea to go with hughes and kennedy in 2008 .
you haven’t answered the phone since you said it was a good idea to go with hughes and kennedy in 2008 .
–
True fact: If two rookies are ever in the same rotation their bodies will shatter into a million pieces.
But its ok if the Twins start 2 rookies.
“would you trade montero for mauer even up?”
I’d like to look at Mauer’s medicals, I don’t trust that back. But most likely Mauer could hold down the catcher position pretty well until Gary Sanchez is ready.
The Twins don’t make that trade because we both know Montero couldn’t play in that c-o-o-o-o-o-l-d climate.
randy,
I’ve already taken my lumps for getting that wrong. It’s funny that you have to look back 2+ years to find a time that I was wrong. I guess that means I have a good track record huh? One mistake every 2 years? Fine be me.
And yeah if you’d like to call me, feel free. Ask SJ44 or Pat M for my email
So the Twins pay a low price for a largely mediocre rotation. Who cares? It doesn’t get them any playoff wins, let alone a world series win which is the ultimate goal. I’d rather my team pay big bucks for good pitchers and win a championship (which they just did, if you forgot) than pay pennies for crappy pitchers.
And in 2008, if you think about it, they actually got very lucky that Mussina had the type of year that he did. He looked cooked at the end of 08, no one expected that from him. Even Girardi/Cash said he had to earn his spot that year. Most fans wanted all THREE rookies in the rotation (Joba/Hughes/Kennedy) coming out of ST. Mussina far outperformed the expectations for him. So 2008 could have ended up even worse.
MTU -
Great post, too bad you have guys like JCPD, now frozen in place, to deal with, lol. Hi Jim.
Ozzie and Lastings together? They should have made the White Sox reality show this year.
“True fact: If two rookies are ever in the same rotation their bodies will shatter into a million pieces.”
truer fact:
“According to the Elias Sports Bureau, there has never been a World Series team with two rookies making a minimum of just 25 starts apiece, let alone 30-34! When that number is scaled back to 20, only four teams have reached the World Series.
The four teams are: the 1982 Cardinals with Dave LaPoint and John Stuper; the 1976 Reds with Santo Alcala and Pat Zachry; the 1952 Dodgers with Ben Wade and Billy Loes; and the 1940 Tigers with Hal Newhouser and Johnny Gorsica.”.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....il_hu.html
Here’s a good trivia question. Who was the last pitcher Pettitte beat? Hint: the guy had the exact opposite reputation than Pettitte in work ethic, intensity and competitiveness. Answer: The American Idle – Carl Pavano .. Minnesota Twins Game 2 2010 ALDS.
Good answer……
KenDavidoff: AL team exec, on #Yankees: “Millwood is not a help. He’s just a name people know.”
randy l. -
I wonder how smart the Twins could be, building a new stadium, without a dome, given their location.
It’ll be funny to watch them open at home in sub-freezing weather. Hey, at least without that roof, they need not worry about it falling on them.
Heck, with all the money they save on pitching, they could afford a dome, couldn’t they.
“you haven’t answered the phone since you said it was a good idea to go with hughes and kennedy in 2008.”
———————————-
2008 has been thrust upon us again.
Why?, you might ask…
Because we have a $#!t-for-brains GM who never learns from his mistakes. If you don’t believe me, go ask Javier Crapzquez.
Al-
Thanks. JCPD is just cranky because he forgot what the color blue looks like. I forgive him. He is suffering from severe Vitamin D deficiency at the moment.
No one should declare victory or sound the retreat before the battle is over, and certainly not before it has even begun.
Nick in SF February 3rd, 2011 at 6:05 pm
Erica, I am glad we didn’t.
*********************
Next time I will go with my gut.
Collecting money from you would make me proud
Because we have a $#!t-for-brains GM who never learns from his mistakes. If you don’t believe me, go ask Javier Crapzquez.
—
Fly away little troll, fly away
truer fact:
“According to the Elias Sports Bureau, there has never been a World Series team with two rookies making a minimum of just 25 starts apiece, let alone 30-34! When that number is scaled back to 20, only four teams have reached the World Series.
–
Which explains why the Twins never win the world series
Hey Nick, any thoughts for a 2011 baseball season bet?
KenDavidoff: AL team exec, on #Yankees: “Millwood is not a help. He’s just a name people know.”
—————————–
True! The Yankees need a new GM, not ANOTHER has-been pitcher!
Hey Al, not frozen in place here. It was a balmy 26 and bright sunshine. Remember, I’m used to Fargo cold. Bummer that AP is hanging them up, but life goes on, the Yanks will survive and win again.
MTU -
I think he’s getting the snow he missed early in the season, so next he’ll be dealing with cabin fever, unless Dakota keeps making trails for him to follow her through the snow.
Does his cain have studs for the ice and snow on it?
Patrick, I think you suggested a bet about whether Joba would start any games in 2011?
As much as I wish they’d give him a chance, I don’t think it’s going to happen, so we could bet on that.
Any other suggestions?
“So the Twins pay a low price for a largely mediocre rotation. Who cares?”
patrick-
you thinking that the twins starters are mediocre is why you have trouble looking at young pitching objectively.
it wouldn’t surprise me to see the twins beat the yankees in starter era again.
JCPD -
I agree, it was coming sooner or later, and I like so many others were hoping it would be later. It sure would have been nice to see Andy take a good-bye tour, and allow his fans to give him a proper send-off.
Al-
From what I can tell Dakota will always be leading the way. The question is will JCPD be able to keep up with her ?
it wouldn’t surprise me to see the twins beat the yankees in starter era again.
–
Playing in a pitcher’s park they should.
it wouldn’t surprise me to see the twins beat the yankees in starter era again.
—
And it wouldn’t surprise me to see the Yankees sweep the Twins in the playoffs again… for a third year in a row.
Also, for the record, Pavano and Liriano are good.
cane – not cain, dah
Also, for the record, Pavano and Liriano are good.
–
The problem here is that the Twins rushed Liriano and almost destroyed him, and Pavano is a free agent gun for hire
I think it was known that Pettitte might retire, nothing really changed substantively today. The reality is that we still have a very shaky starting rotation with no depth and no one knows if it will work out in the long run. Pitching is the name of the game. I’m concerned about Sabathia being another year older pounding the mound with his 290 pound body after knee surgery; albeit a very minor one. Hughes is a young healthy guy; no worries there, but after Phil, it’s nothing to feel super confident about.
“It’ll be funny to watch them open at home in sub-freezing weather.”
i agree they should have put up a roof, but i think the yankees should have put a movavable roof on yankee stadium too.
the yankees don’t exactly play in the sunbelt.
” Did anything change today ? ”
Chad ,
The short answer :
No . Nothing has changed .
The bleak reality is that the
R*d S*x are still the 2011 World Champions .
“And it wouldn’t surprise me to see the Yankees sweep the Twins in the playoffs again… for a third year in a row.”
i’m all for that, but the starter pitching records aren’t that one sided if i remember. i think the yankees wore down their bullpen most years and won a lot of games late.
MTU -
I ordered some roll paper for the printer, and tomorrow I’ll scan Jim’s photo’s, and see if I get lucky and get the panoramic picture I’m hoping for, I’ll let you know.
And the silver lining is that we as Yankee fans don’t have to fret and panic about the 2011 season anymore as it is already over .
Well if the Twins had truly elite pitching like you seem to suggest, they wouldn’t have to depend on the bullpen to win a game.
AL, Andy’s kind of a reserved type of guy, it could be it suits him just fine not having a farewell tour. Not much snow here, about 5 inches on the ground. MTU, I always keep up with Dakota and do half the trekking. She consistently runs ahead and then comes back, less work for me.
Al-
Sounds good. Seems like you’re feeling better ?
randy l. -
You’re right, I was hoping for a roof at YS myself, but, the Yankees were more interested in keeping the original look, than the protection a roof would have afforded.
AL, which photo are you talking about?
OK, so he retires. The rotation looks like the 08 Red Sox. Deal with it.
The X factor here is Larry Rothschild. Don’t discount that. Eiland hurt the team last year, for whatever reason. At a minimum, you don’t want to get in the way. He did, and he was fired.
Barring injuries, if the Yankees lead after 5-6 innings, they usually will win, as presently constructed.
I wonder if the statheads can give us data on how many wins the Yankees would have had if the games ended with the Yankees leading after after 5 innings, 6 innings, and 7 innings in the past year? How many times did the Yankees cough up the lead in the 5th, 6th, and 7th?
I’m not worried.
JCPD-
Like I’ve said before. She’s a star.
MTU -
Good and bad, not complaining. Last night, not one minutes sleep, but, you do what you have to.
MTU -
Dakota’s the star.
You’re right, I was hoping for a roof at YS myself, but, the Yankees were more interested in keeping the original look, than the protection a roof would have afforded.
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Every modern stadium should be built with a retractable roof, it’s pretty absurd that neither NY stadium has one.
Still waiting for the answers to my questions YankeesNMore.
Whining like a moron about Brian Cashman like the hopeless and clueless fanboy you are isn’t going to work.
C’mon, you can do it. Find verification for your hysterical rantings today.
Al-
I hope you feel better. Continue to improve.
SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 7:08 pm
Still waiting for the answers to my questions YankeesNMore.
—————————————————————————–
SJ, maybe Ruby can answer the questions for you, after all, they are two of a kind.
“The bleak reality is that the
R*d S*x are still the 2011 World Champions .”
you mean the team that couldn’t even make the playoffs last year with the same pitching as this year?
you mean that pansy outfielder who with that ski mask on looks like he’s going to rob a bank every time it gets cold.
of course this winter when it got wicked cold he did put on that ski mask and rob the red sox bank. who are the red sox not going to have in the coming years because they overpaid so much for crawford?
oh, that team.
With the Yankees wanting to rent YS out during the off season, for various venues, a roof would have paid for itself.
I’m sure, it could have been done, and still kept the character of the original stadium.
Just look at Giants Stadium, with both the Giants and Jets paying for the new stadium, it was crazy not to include a roof in the design.
“Well if the Twins had truly elite pitching like you seem to suggest, they wouldn’t have to depend on the bullpen to win a game.”
their pitching is not elite like a bmw is an elite car.
they are more like a suburu.
not too flashy but they get the job done and are reliable. good in bad weather and snow.
randy l. -
I’ll give Crawford credit, he’s a very hard worker, keeping and getting into shape, he wants to win. Some of his former teammates said Carl hates the cold, that’s one reason I thought he was going to the Angels. Let’s see what happens if the weather is nasty, and he gets off to a slow start, the fans in Boston are not very nice to their stars.
I wonder why those negative posters, when asked to back up their rants with facts, they tend to disappear.
Tick – Tock
JCPD,
In boxing lingo, we have a small group of fans on here who can’t take a punch.
No matter what happens, the sky is falling.
Good performances are ignored. Bad performances are highlighted.
No Yankee player can improve.
They crave guarantees in an industry that offers none.
One man’s retirement leads to a huge opportunity for a bunch of young and old arms.
Uncertainty? Sure but, isn’t that what makes sports fun to follow?
There is no script, despite the pleas of the lunatic for one.
I’m looking forward to spring and seeing who emerges from the competition.
It’s also nice for a change for the Yankees to not have the bullseye on them.
Will make it easier to break in new arms.
MTU -
Thanks!
They only get rained out a few times a year. And I’m not sure how much warmer a retractable roof would make it.
Anyway they’ve been playing baseball in NYC for a long time without a roof.
big al-
crawford is a hard worker, but his offense doesn’t warrant that contract. i think it will be an albatross around their neck as time goes on.
it will really be fun if gardner for $400,000 comes close to crawford in OPS.
2011 == The Giveaway Season ?
Al-
Con mucho gusto Senor.
Anyway they’ve been playing baseball in NYC for a long time without a roof.
—————————————————————————————————
That’s how I look at it in Minnesota as well. Nothing like a brisk game in April at the old Metropolitan Stadium. The players making millions and the fans have become pansies over the years. If it’s cold, either don’t go to the game or dress a little warmer for it.
Bronx Jeers February 3rd, 2011 at 7:20 pm
They only get rained out a few times a year. And I’m not sure how much warmer a retractable roof would make it.
Anyway they’ve been playing baseball in NYC for a long time without a roof.
*********************************************
Stadiums with roofs are climate controlled, and since the Yankees are trying to expand the use of the stadium, a roof would have made for greater uses., not just for baseball.
Tin Cup ( The Original Randy I ) Speaking of the Twins, I had a few pops with Every Day Eddie the other day….As he always does he shares his respect for The NY Yankees, Mariano Rivera, Derek Jeter and of course Bernie Williams who just gave him fits on the hill and restless night sleeps the day before squaring up against him……
Bronx Jeers,
I think the difference is both the cost of tickets and the reliance on advance sales.
People cannot just decide on game day (stubhub notwithstanding) to go to a Yankees game. So people plan out their visits in advance. Unfortunately you can’t predict today what the weather will be on June 12th, for example. So rainouts are more inconvenient than ever before.
The roof in Seattle seems to work out very well. Something like that would have been nice. Even if they only had a few rain days a year. Plus, what about the days they don’t get rained out,b ut play in the rain anyway? It would be good for those.
We’ll survive without the roof, but it would have been useful, I think.
In Minnesota, it was plain silly not to have a roof, though.
Man this blog has fallen off the cliff tonight.
You would think it’s actually the season, instead of FEBRUARY!
There is still plenty of time for Cash to earn
his paycheck, and prove a lot of doubters (I’m talking to you YankeesNMore, you idiot) wrong in their belief that he can only spend money. And I absolutely believe Cash is doing as good a job as anyone can to improve the rotation and this team…
BUT
What if it’s out of his hands? Are there really that many teams with trade candidates, since the FA market for SP is useless at this point? He can’t just create a pitcher. We may very well go into the season, and for the first 2-3 months, with Nova & Mitre as #4 & #5, respectively.
Seasons can’t be won in April & May, but if the Tigers have shown us anything, it’s that they can be lost.
JCPD -
Playing baseball in very cold weather can cause injuries to players, that to me is more important than fans being warm or not.
“The Boys of Summer”
Remember, the WS use to end the first week of October, now it’s November.
Good night folks, don’t forget to duck!
Pat M.-
I want to hear about the pool cleaner. You know. The one with the fluorescent orange top.
“Speaking of the Twins, I had a few pops with Every Day Eddie the other day”
pat m-
are you guys golfing buddies ? he had some career- 17 years. must have unlimited stories.
Sure Al, they had injuries back then too. If the players are worried about the cold, then let the players give up some money and play the post season games during the day like the used to. Schedule doubleheaders once or twice a month like it used to be to shorten the season.But, heck,you know the players or owners aren’t going to give up any money.
“The roof in Seattle seems to work out very well.”
doreen-
that’s the park i was thinking of.
on a separate note, i love the railroad that goes right by it. there’s something about baseball games and train whistles that goes together.
The Yankees are in a precarious position with their top prospects.
They either have to hope they make big jumps fast and can fill holes or they are going to have to trade them to get pitchers who can help this season and next.
Most GM’s are going to hold the Yankees up for the names everyone knows and probably won’t deal with them without getting the “names”.
So the Yankees are going to have it hurt to make a big trade or they are going to have to trade for lesser players with bad contracts in order to keep the young players they want.
The Yankees are more right than wrong when they trade their “name” prospects so I hope whatever acumen they’ve been using to evaluate in the past is still in place.
That said, it’s going to be a bumpy ride and the pen is going to get worked like dogs.
I expect the Yankees to make the playoffs and I even still expect them to win the division this year.
I just don’t have a clue outside of Phil and CC who we’re going to be relying on to do that.
Should be an interesting season.
ignore the trolls.
lots of opportunity for good discussion on the blog today.
instead, it’s trolls and bridge-jumpers driving the conversation.
The only thing – does the roof limit capacity in some way? The Yankees do tend to draw more than most.
But Seattle was one of the best places I’ve seen a game. The roof was not needed the night we were there, and it was not in the way at all. The retracted roof kind of blended in and added to the entire atmosphere. They did a great job designing that one.
Now, when we went to the Rogers Centre, they roof was closed and it had a very claustrophobic feeling. However, since we were staying at the attached hotel, we did have an opportunity to see a game from the restaurant – a day game, sunny, and the roof was open. Much different – and better – atmosphere, but still not as nice as Seattle.
Whoever is in charge of GTLU this year should think about a GT starting rotation on opening day (before spring training starts)
Minnesota? That’s hardcore cold. But the only indoor baseball I’ve ever witnessed was at the Metrodome and it certainly left a bad taste in my mouth.
BIG AL,
Domes are climate controlled but retractable roofs as well?
I guess places like Houston, and Phoenix have air conditioning but I don’t think there’s a heated stadium. I know Seattle’s not heated because I’ve been there when the roof was on and it was still pretty cold. Does Rogers Centre have heat?
The Yankees are in a precarious position with their top prospects.
–
This is where self scouting is going to be key. I don’t think the Yankees really get burned on trades that bad, certainly not like some teams, so I’m confident they will deal the right pieces if it comes to it.
GLove, I agree with that evaluation….
Let’s hope this is the first time in history that a pitching coach wins the Cy Young.
Whether AJ turns it around will likely be bigger than any move the Yankees will make.
G. Love -
“Should be an interesting season.”
Always good to live in interesting times.
Beats the hell out of total boredom.
Jerkface,
They don’t get burned at all usually. The issue they have going forward is if there is competition for a starting pitcher in a trade scenario, the opposing GM is going to hold the Yankees up for the big names and when Cashman balks at including them another team can slip in and take the pitcher by offering their name prospects they don’t hold onto like Cashman might.
He’s in a tough spot going forward. Everyone is going to ask for Banuelos, Sanchez, Montero and Betances and if he’s not willing to deal them we could lose out on trade targets.
You just hope if/when he does deal them, it’s for high value and not for a mid rotation type.
I’m concerned about the Yankees not being able to make trades without overpaying.
We all complained how the Yankees were slighted in prospect rankings over the years.
Now that the system is being recognized, it’s a blessing and a curse.
I could see an opposing GM hanging on up on us if we don’t give them the best cookies we have in the oven.
Hopefully, some teams will have financial issues and need to get rid of players that we can step in and acquire like the past.
Although, those kind of deals seem to happen less and less these days.
Doreen,
The only thing I would like in the way of a roof is what they have in Seattle.
I would bet they considered it and felt it just wasn’t worth the investment which I’m sure would pushed the price tag close to 2 billion.
And as much as I miss/prefer the old Stadium this new one is so much kinder during rain delays.
BD-
I think it all depends on what you mean by “turns it around”.
If that means getting back to 2009 levels I think that’s doable.
If it means he has a career year that’s something different.
““Should be an interesting season.””
————-
except in this case, “interesting” could quickly turn to unbearable.
of course, victory would taste even sweeter.
we enter every year thinking the Yanks are the favorites to win it all and are clearly the best team.
i can’t remember a season where there was more uncertainty from the fans. Even in 2008, I feel like most people at least expected Hughes, Joba, and IPK to do fairly well.
Like I said, it would only end up being more rewarding if they can still find a way to win.
MTU,
I feel like AJ was one of the worst pitchers in baseball last year. He was ok in 2009.
So at a minimum, they need 2009 AJ.
But… why can’t we get 2nd half of 2008 AJ?
Is he that far removed from obliterating the AL East for 3 months while with Toronto?
MTU….Pool Service day….Different top ( Lime Green ) same white shorts , different female helper, same type of physical attributes…..Of course I made a donation to her College Fund……Randy, Eddie is a cool guy great stories that I’ll share later……They’ll need to be edited somewhat in order to pass censorship….Remember the shower comments a few years ago, I was roasted for that…..
Here is the way I see it……..
Between Nova, Garcia, Colon, Noesi, Mitchell, Phelps, Brackman, Warren, and perhaps, Stoneburner, what are the odds 2 guys emerge from this list of 9 arms to help them win games this year? For at least the first 2 months?
If there are no injuries, I’d say pretty good. Especially given the quality of the bullpen and offense.
There is power in numbers.
It increases your chances of piecing it together or having a surprise or two emerge with some of the younger arms.
This team once made the playoffs with Shawn Chacon and Aaron Small in the rotation.
Every one of the nine guys I mentioned above have better arms than Chacon and Small.
The question is whether or not these guys are ready for primetime.
Pat M.-
Of course. Thay all sound fine.
BD-
I am not expecting anything like 2008. I’ll settle for 2009. I think that is realistic and achieveable. The other not very likely.
MTU,
I’m certainly not expecting it either.
I just don’t know that it’s far fetched to think that a pitcher with one of the better arms in baseball can’t return to the form he had just 2 seasons prior.
If we can agree that he still has a good arm, fixing his head and mechanics isn’t out of the question.
I’ll settle for 2009. I won’t be shocked if he’s better than that.
BD-
I won’t be shocked just very pleasantly surprised.
YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 6:52 pm
True! The Yankees need a new GM, not ANOTHER has-been pitcher!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Norman—this is getting quite like an obsession with you, isn’t it? Are you still watching that fly?
One person that this retirement helps is Craig Heyer. He’s been stuck in Tampa for two years. He doesn’t have a big fastball, but, he throws everything else. It’s hurt him that he’s versatile enough to start and relieve. Same thing that hurt Mendoza. He was good enough to be in the rotation, but, outstanding in the pen. He doesn’t give up homers, not many hits, hardly any homers. The flaw is that he doesn’t strike out a lot of batters. He should be in Trenton this season.
Best case I can see the Yanks making the playoffs and maybe even going to the series. But, how about worst case?
– Jeter and ARod don’t bounce back. They continue to decline with age.
– AJ doesn’t bounce back. He’s just toast.
– Russ Martin hits the way he did in 2009 and 2010
– Montero isn’t ready to catch full-time at the major league level
– Gardner’s surgery is unsuccessful
– Mo becomes human
None of these things is that unlikely (except maybe the last one). We could be in for a long season.
SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 8:03 pm
Between Nova, Garcia, Colon, Noesi, Mitchell, Phelps, Brackman, Warren, and perhaps, Stoneburner, what are the odds 2 guys emerge from this list of 9 arms to help them win games this year? For at least the first 2 months?
++++++++++++++
What other team in the majors has the prospect depth at high levels that this team does? They are well suited for call-ups or that trade for a good starter.
Regardless of what people said earlier today, i still think the Yankees are fore-runners for Santana, as they have both the prospects and can absorb the salary. Alderson won’t care about the PR hit, and Mets fans will accept a deal that fills holes in their weak mnior league development pool.
There will be other potential pick-ups that might include the usual suspects (Carmona), plus others that show improvement (Bruce Chen or Luke Hochevar (whom I think will make great strides this year)), plus even others that are having comeback seasons (Chien Ming Wang, Erik Bedard). It always happens, and I expect there to be options in July that we can’t forsee at the moment.
Best case scenario is that all California trolls, Debbie Downers and pessimists break off and fall into the ocean.
“Between Nova, Garcia, Colon, Noesi, Mitchell, Phelps, Brackman, Warren, and perhaps, Stoneburner, what are the odds 2 guys emerge from this list of 9 arms to help them win games this year?”
The only problem is, how long is it going to take to find those 2 arms? In 2007, the Yankees finally got quality starts out of Hughes and Kennedy, but not before they suffered countless other starts from AAA fodder.