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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Making it official

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 03, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Here’s the Yankees press release about Andy Pettitte. It was sent in the middle of our chat, and it pretty much makes Pettitte’s retirement official.

The New York Yankees today announced that LHP Andy Pettitte will hold a press conference on Friday at 10:30 a.m. to announce his retirement.

Pettitte, 38, finishes his career with a 240-138 (.635) record and 3.88 ERA (3,055.1 IP, 1,317 ER) in 479 starts over 16 Major League seasons with the Yankees (1995-2003 and ‘07-10) and Houston Astros (2004-06). He is one of just 26 pitchers all-time to complete his career 100-or-more games over .500. Of the 19 Hall of Fame-eligible pitchers who have reached that plateau, only “Parisian” Bob Caruthers, who went 218-99 from 1884-92, is not enshrined in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

Originally selected by the Yankees in the 22nd round of the 1990 First-Year Player Draft, Pettitte played 13 seasons with the club, going 203-112 with a 3.98 ERA (2,535.2 IP, 1,122 ER) and 1,823 strikeouts in 405 games (396 starts). In franchise history, he ranks second in strikeouts and starts, third in wins, fourth in innings pitched and eighth in appearances (405). He appeared in eight career World Series (seven as a Yankee), winning championships with the Yankees in 1996, ‘98, ’99, 2000 and ‘09.

Pettitte is the all-time winningest pitcher in postseason history, going 19-10 with a 3.83 ERA in 42 career starts. He also ranks first all time in postseason starts and innings pitched (263.0), and is tied for second with 173 strikeouts. His personal career postseason win total is more than that of nine other franchises (Kansas City-18; Arizona-15, Seattle-15, San Diego-12, Tampa Bay-10, Colorado-9, Milwaukee-9, Texas-9, and Montreal/Washingon-5). As a Yankee in the postseason, he went 18-9 with a 3.79 ERA (237.2 IP, 100 ER) in 38 career starts. While winning his final World Series with the Yankees in 2009, he became the first pitcher in Baseball history to start and win the clinching game of all three series in a single postseason (ALDS vs. Minnesota, ALCS vs. Los Angeles-AL and WS vs. Philadelphia).

In 2010, Pettitte went 11-3 with a 3.28 ERA (129.0 IP, 47 ER) in 21 starts. He was placed on the disabled list from July 20 (retroactive to July 19) to September 18 with a strained left groin. In the 2010 postseason, he went 1-1 with a 2.57 ERA (14.0 IP, 4 ER) in two combined starts at Minnesota in ALDS Game 2 (W, 7.0 IP, 2 ER) and vs. Texas in ALCS Game 3 (L, 7.0 IP, 2 ER).

A Louisiana native and Texas resident, Pettitte also pitched three seasons with the Houston Astros from 2004-06, going 37-26 with a 3.38 ERA (519.2 IP, 195 ER) in 84 games (83 starts) and appearing in the 2005 World Series vs. Chicago-AL.

According to the Elias Sports Bureau, Pettitte, a three-time All-Star (1996, 2001, ’10) and 2001 ALCS MVP, holds the distinction of being the only pitcher in Major League history to post a record of .500 or better while making at least 15 starts in each of the first 16 seasons of his career. He also posted a winning record in each of the first 13 seasons of his career (1995-2007), marking the third-longest such streak to begin a career all time, trailing only Hall of Famers Grover Cleveland Alexander (17) and Cy Young (15).

Associated Press photo

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374 Responses to “Making it official”

  1. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    See – Yankees will be fine without their first round pick this year – look what they can get in later rounds!

  2. onehundredareneuf February 3rd, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    goodbye andy. thanks for the memories.

  3. Carl February 3rd, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    Andy going out on his terms.

    Retiring before Bernie.

  4. BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 3:02 pm

    Regarding Santana–

    If I understand correctly what I read about his surgery, they are actually strengthening his shoulder and that should restore his fastball and fastball/change up differential. After he recovers, he should be a very attractive pitcher.

    I still believe (hope?) that Mets will be forced to move Santana and Beltran during year…and there are not many clubs who can pick up those contracts. With Andy retiring, the Yankees ability to do so (with Mets kicking in some money) just improved.

    The bottom line is that our play-off hopes are still alive and it won’t be until August 31st that we see the final team that will compete in the play-offs. With out trade chip reserves, we’ll be fine.

  5. DaSaint007 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    Don’t count out the Mets moving their largest contracts, as it appears that they do want to shed more payroll. The Wilpons just don’t have the resources anymore, so why pay someone like Johan or Bay the big bucks?

    It’s a salary dump waiting to happen. I can see AL teams grabbing both of those guys mid-season. Alderson is no dummy. He’ll swallow as much of their salary commensurate with the minor-league talent he’ll get back.

    The Yankees have no room for all their pitching talent. Don’t think that they would pass up a chance at a healthy Johan for 3 more seasons if it meant paying only $12-$16M/year. You know, Pettitte money. Cashman would pull the trigger in a minute.

  6. Erin February 3rd, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    Great picture choice.

    I’m really going to miss him. :(

  7. BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    More importantly, why does Baseball hate “Parisian” Bob Caruthers????!!!

  8. ConcernedCitizen February 3rd, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    And now things get *really* interesting.

  9. Erica in NY February 3rd, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    Can anyone verify if the press conference will be on YES?

    (DVR must be set accordingly)

  10. DaSaint007 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    If I have a chance at CC, Hughes, Johan, AJ, and a warm body (Colon/Garcia/Nova/Phelps/Mitre/Me) sometime after mid-season, I’d take it.

  11. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    Reposting these since I did all the work to calculate them!

    The Yankees got a 3.61 ERA from Pettitte, Hughes, CC, and Nova in 585 innings.

    The Yankees had 408 IP worth of 5.31 ERA from everyone else I think it will be difficult to find that much suck in the back end this year.

    If Garcia merely replicates his 2010 season, and Nova pitches deeper but at the same 4.50 ERA, the yankees are already ahead of the game. Regress both samples a bit towards the middle and I think you have a realistic projection for next years staff.

  12. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 3:06 pm

    Great picture.
    Makes you wanna cry…

  13. DaSaint007 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:06 pm

    I guess the Yankees had this release researched, written, and waiting, just in case…

  14. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    BoJo -

    After the PR disasters that have happened with the Mets over the last few years I cannot imagine any scenario where they would send Santana to the NY Yankees.

    It would be as if they were saying to their fans “Just go buy Yankee season tickets and forget about us”

  15. Erin February 3rd, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    Erica-pat posted a tweet in the last thread that confirmed that YES will show the PC.

  16. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    Jerkface -

    Agreed – we’re not asking Freddy Garcia to be something he’s not – just to repeat what he did in 2010.

  17. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    I guess the Yankees had this release researched, written, and waiting, just in case…

    Same thing with Obits for famous people.

  18. BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    Talk about an all-round great player, check out Parisian Bob

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Caruthers

    Could hit and pitch!

  19. blake February 3rd, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    DaSaint,

    I wouldn’t dismiss it at all. Some of the money in Johan’s deal is deferred as well…..RAB had a story up on him th other day…..they estimated that if he we’re dealt at the deadline then the aquiring team would be on the hook for roughly 48 million over the rest of the contract and then 10 million deferred to 2019 and 2020. If he’s healthy and pitching we’ll then its still a lot of money but not a ridiculous amount……unlikely but something to monitor.

  20. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    DaSaint -

    Like I said to BoJo – I just can’t see a scenario where the Mets would send Johan to the Yankees.

    It might make all the baseball and even business sense to do it but they would never survive the PR fallout.

  21. Fran the original February 3rd, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    According to Michael Kay 98 percent of Andy’s decision was the pull of his family.

  22. Don Vito A. Bellamo February 3rd, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    This stings. Not only will he be missed, but our rotation is really one reliable CC and 4 question marks after that….DANG !

  23. DaSaint007 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:07 pm
    BoJo -

    After the PR disasters that have happened with the Mets over the last few years I cannot imagine any scenario where they would send Santana to the NY Yankees.

    It would be as if they were saying to their fans “Just go buy Yankee season tickets and forget about us”
    ——————————————-

    Fellas, I disagree. The Mets are hurting financially, and when you’re hurting, you need financial relief. Attendance will be down regardless, so why not trim say $20M annually for the next 3 years by trading Johan, Bay, and Beltran (1 year left), and restocking your system with some good young players.

  24. Patrick February 3rd, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    If the Yankee rotation is Sabathia, Burnett, Hughes, Nova and Garcia and they all pitch to their career averages the Yankees will be in pretty good shape…

  25. ConcernedCitizen February 3rd, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    “… and 2001 ALCS MVP…” Very emotional ALCS. I remember Andy’s performances like they were yesterday.

  26. Pat M. February 3rd, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    Face…..Good stuff on the Yanks rotation….I agree with you that the rotation is not this programed for failure in 2011…..Nova is going to open many eyes….It really does as of now fall somewhat on AJ’s shoulders, right arm, and the grey matter in between his ears….

  27. Joe from Long Island February 3rd, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    After the PR disasters that have happened with the Mets over the last few years I cannot imagine any scenario where they would send Santana to the NY Yankees.

    It would be as if they were saying to their fans ?Just go buy Yankee season tickets and forget about us?

    Chip – the Mets have been saying this for years now. Personally, I think the Wilpons have a lot more on their minds right now than player moves. Like how they’re going to stay one step ahead of the sherrif.

  28. YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    How crappy is this P.O.S. Cashman has put together?

    Andy Pettitte has decided he’d rather pass on $15 million and retire than pitch for it.

    past time for a change

  29. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    I don’t understand this ‘Hughes is a questionmark stuff’. Even if he just pitches the same as he did last year he’ll be fine.

  30. Doreen February 3rd, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    Good picture choice, I agree.

    When will it sink in?

    I guess at some point during spring training when Pettitte really is not there.

    austinmac -

    If you’re here – sorry if I came off as a bit snippy in the last thread.

  31. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:15 pm

    DaSaint007 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:11 pm
    Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:07 pm
    BoJo -

    After the PR disasters that have happened with the Mets over the last few years I cannot imagine any scenario where they would send Santana to the NY Yankees.

    It would be as if they were saying to their fans “Just go buy Yankee season tickets and forget about us”
    ——————————————-

    Fellas, I disagree. The Mets are hurting financially, and when you’re hurting, you need financial relief. Attendance will be down regardless, so why not trim say $20M annually for the next 3 years by trading Johan, Bay, and Beltran (1 year left), and restocking your system with some good young players.

    ———————

    I think you’re making all the sense in the world – but they can’t do it. It’s just one of those things that you cannot do if you’re Fred Wilpon – you can’t allow your GM to ship your best pitcher to the Yankees.

    Can you imagine the fallout if Santana pitched well for the Yankees? If he were on a parade float going down the Canyon of Heroes with a Yankee cap? Met fans would go ballistic – it would be worse then them giving Ollie Perez a 5 year contract extension.

  32. Nick in SF February 3rd, 2011 at 3:15 pm

    I think it’s generally a good idea to keep Parisians out of our Hall of Fame.

  33. BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 3:15 pm

    Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    BoJo -

    After the PR disasters that have happened with the Mets over the last few years I cannot imagine any scenario where they would send Santana to the NY Yankees.

    It would be as if they were saying to their fans “Just go buy Yankee season tickets and forget about us”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++
    Mets fans may not care anymore anyway. I suspect they are becoming numb to the daily pain that is their lives.

    Plus–If the Mets eat salary, the Yankees can give them some good prospects. What other team can absord so much money and give back good prospects? That is what Alderson will base his decision on, and use that logic to sell to the Mets fans. (And let’s face it, they are not that intelligent anyway, otherwise–why would they be Mets fans?)

  34. blake February 3rd, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    Chip,

    You may be right….but Mets fans likely understand also that they need rebuilt ….if they can she’d money to do then wouldn’t that be a good thing for them…..despite where he was going.?

  35. TheStraw February 3rd, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    YankeesMoron-

    You’re the P.O.S. How about having some faith in a team that won 95 games and came within two wins of the WS last year and won it the year before.

  36. upstate kate February 3rd, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    when I picture Andy, it is always with the stare into home plate

  37. DaSaint007 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:10 pm
    DaSaint -

    Like I said to BoJo – I just can’t see a scenario where the Mets would send Johan to the Yankees.

    It might make all the baseball and even business sense to do it but they would never survive the PR fallout.
    ———————————————–
    Chip,

    Did any of the financial giants care about the PR hit for taking government money to survive? In times like these, where the Mets got hammered (supposedly even their deferred investment money went up in smoke due to Madoff), they’re looking for cash.

    That’s why they’re considering selling a minority share – to raise cash.
    When you do that, you often try to lighten the load by selling assets. GM and Ford closed plants. A basball team would try to shed expensive contracts.

    While it may be humbling to have to deal with your cross-town rival, it’s clear that the Yankees have better financial resources – and here’s the point – better young talent almost ready for prime-time.

    While the Yankees don’t need a Jason Bay, they could use a (healthy) Johan Santana. Why cut off your nose to spite your face. You can spin PR all you want, but if I were Alderson, I’d rather come out of things with a Joba, a Nunez and a Brackman for a Santana. In fact, I’d spin Joba in any cross-town deal so that both teams potentially eat some pie.

  38. randy l. February 3rd, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    “If Garcia merely replicates his 2010 season,…”

    in a golf skin games often you have to validate a birdie that wins a skin by parring the next hole.

    in the same way garcia has to par this upcoming year to prove that last year wasn’t a fluke.

    and it may have been a fluke simply with the innings. he, after, all had a tough time reaching 50 innings for three years before that.

    he’s good enough when he pitches. the question is will he hold up health wise.

  39. NYY626 - Andy in 2011 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    I’m trying to take solace in the fact that I saw Andy’s last game live, but it’s really making want to hurt cliff lee ( and our offense). Andy should have won that game he was amazing other than the homerun in the 1st. :sigh:

  40. ConcernedCitizen February 3rd, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    The Qwiki on Andy is really cool: http://www.qwiki.com/q/#!/Andy_Pettitte (If you haven’t heard of Qwiki, check it out.)

  41. Erin February 3rd, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    ed_price Pitchers since 1950 with 120+ IP and 130+ ERA+ in final season: Koufax ’66, Tudor ’90, Sirotka ’00, Mussina ’08, Pettitte ’10.

  42. SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    It’s pretty clear why nobody reads your blogs.

    Past time for this to be said…..You are a moron.

    BTW, show us where Andy is turning down a 15 million dollar offer (which isn’t the amount of his standing offer) because of Brian Cashman.

    Take your time finding the answer.

    And no, your usual fanboy drivel won’t suffice.

    Find some actual proof.

    Do you know how to do that?

    Find someone who will verify it.

    A Jon Heyman unsourced Tweet doesn’t count.

    Actual proof.

    If you can do that, perhaps you will get people to read your blog.

  43. randy l. February 3rd, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    “I don’t understand this ‘Hughes is a questionmark stuff’. Even if he just pitches the same as he did last year he’ll be fine.”

    you would think with a year under his belt that hughes would be a little better.

  44. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    he’s good enough when he pitches. the question is will he hold up health wise.

    I’d rather health be a factor than performance. The yankees will take all the innings he can provide, giving enough time for better, younger players to emerge.

  45. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    DaSaint -

    On this one we’ll have to agree to disagree buddy.

    Blake -

    Like I’ve been saying to the others – there’s sound logic behind the Mets dealing Santana to the Yankees – but I don’t think it’s going to happen

    BoJo -

    I don’t think the Yankees have any more desire to see a good prospect develop with the Mets than the Mets do to see Johan pitching with the Yankees.

  46. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    you would think with a year under his belt that hughes would be a little better.

    A year closer to his prime and with more experience I think he will be better, but I just don’t know why would he be a question mark. If he is as good as 2010 its a win. He is likely to be better.

    I wonder what the question mark people are envisioning for him?

  47. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:22 pm
    It’s pretty clear why nobody reads your blogs.

    Past time for this to be said…..You are a moron.

    BTW, show us where Andy is turning down a 15 million dollar offer (which isn’t the amount of his standing offer) because of Brian Cashman.

    Take your time finding the answer.

    And no, your usual fanboy drivel won’t suffice.

    Find some actual proof.

    Do you know how to do that?

    Find someone who will verify it.

    A Jon Heyman unsourced Tweet doesn’t count.

    Actual proof.

    If you can do that, perhaps you will get people to read your blog.

    ———————-

    Just ignore him…

    His knowledge of baseball is limited to video games where players don’t have free will and so if you want to sign someone you just click a button and they’re signed.

  48. SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    I think if the Mets ever traded Santana to the Yankees, and put money in the deal, their fans would revolt.

    The PR disaster would be greater than their current mess.

    They could trade him elsewhere if they so choose.

    I can’t envision a scenario in which he would be traded to the Yankees.

  49. randy l. February 3rd, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    the only question mark i can see is whether he’ll get 18 wins again as easily.

    i could see him improving most of his stats and only getting 14-15 victories.

  50. BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    Chip–

    I shocked that you aren’t putting together trade proposals for Santana and Beltran! Are you feeling under the weather?

  51. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    I just wish he would come up with something new…it’s past time for a change that he came up with a new line.

  52. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 3:26 pm
    Chip–

    I shocked that you aren’t putting together trade proposals for Santana and Beltran! Are you feeling under the weather?

    ——————

    I’m trying to keep my fantasy trades to at least those I think are plausable :-)

  53. West Coast Yankee Fan February 3rd, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Andy said he feels he could pitch for five more years.

  54. DaSaint007 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    Chip,

    Not a problem buddy. Yeah, we’ll disagree, but it’s fun speculating, isn’t it! I don’t get bent out of shape on differing views. Just the seemingly endless negativity of some (two people, one Snore (male) and one female who shall go unnamed :-) )

    Mets-Yankees are like Soviet Union-US. Whenever a treaty is signed, they both have to give up something they like. To me, I’d cringe watching Joba succeed in Flushing. And they’d cringe watching Johan succeed in the Bx. That’s what makes it intriguing. But alas, Joba would have to be just a cog in the wheel, as he doesn’t have enough value of his own of course.

  55. BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    I think if the Mets ever traded Santana to the Yankees, and put money in the deal, their fans would revolt.
    ++++++++++++++
    Have you ever watched one of their games on TV and seen shots of their fans? They already are revolting.

  56. Nick in SF February 3rd, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    My Hughes question is, can he surpass the 18 wins?

    One of those was a vulture win, I think, so maybe the Hughes over/under should be set at 17.5 wins.

  57. DaSaint007 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    Chip/SJ, how about a 3 way deal that ends with Johan eventually in the Bx?

  58. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    i could see him improving most of his stats and only getting 14-15 victories.

    As long as the yankees win in the starts he pitches, I couldn’t care less how many victories he gets. Ok that is a bit of a lie, I want all the Yankees to get wins. Even the bad ones.

  59. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:26 pm
    I think if the Mets ever traded Santana to the Yankees, and put money in the deal, their fans would revolt.

    The PR disaster would be greater than their current mess.

    They could trade him elsewhere if they so choose.

    I can’t envision a scenario in which he would be traded to the Yankees.

    —————-

    I tend to agree.

    He has a full NTC but if he were willing to waive it I think the Texas Rangers would make a lot of sense.

    They have the money to take on the contract and they have the prospects to get a deal done.

  60. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    I think if the Mets ever traded Santana to the Yankees, and put money in the deal, their fans would revolt.
    =================
    I am picturing rocks being thrown and camels in the parking lot.

  61. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    DaSaint007 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:29 pm
    Chip/SJ, how about a 3 way deal that ends with Johan eventually in the Bx?

    ———————

    It still doesn’t remove the issue that the Mets are sending Santana to the Yankees.

  62. DaSaint007 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    Poll:

    Where would you rather see Johan end up:

    Phillies
    boston
    Yankees
    Texas
    Angels
    Tampa Bay

  63. tyanksfan36 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    I’m pretty sad about this Andy news. I got to see him for like 1/3 of an inning of Spring Training in 2010, many STs before that and once when he was with Houston. I’m glad I ordered a Pettitte shirt a few months ago. Ill have to wear it at ST in a month. Ill miss him.

  64. randy l. February 3rd, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    there is no way of getting around it.

    watching to see if rothschild can aj burnett back to being really good half the time the way he used to be is going to be one of the big stories of the spring

  65. BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    I think Alderson would not take Joba, but would instead want a package like:

    C — Romine or Murphy
    2B–CoJo
    OF–Slade, Mesa
    SP–Noesi, Warren, etc.

    I other words, a big package of kids under control that can fill several holes.

  66. 108 stitches February 3rd, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    Aside from losing a proven pitcher like Andy, it makes losing a starting lefthander sting a little more.

  67. blake February 3rd, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    SJ,

    yea that may be true……they are just a mess though and there just aren’t many other teams that would or could take in that contract. Very unlikely but interesting to think about…..at least I think. Hopefully the Yanks wont need to do anything like that anyway.

  68. randy l. February 3rd, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    “One of those was a vulture win, I think, so maybe the Hughes over/under should be set at 17.5 wins.”

    i think he’ll get less than 17.5 wins, but will pitch better.

  69. Greg M February 3rd, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    Thank you, Andy.

    also @Randy L… thanks for the good wishes from earlier!

  70. PhiltheThrill February 3rd, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    One of Noesi, Phelps and Warren could surprise.

  71. PhiltheThrill February 3rd, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    Andy’s splits weren’t typical for a lefty.

  72. YankFanCA February 3rd, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    Can’t fault or question Pettitte’s decision, but boy does this hurt an already thin rotation.

  73. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    andy was the glue in the middle of the rotation.
    theyre gonna miss that badly.

  74. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 3:32 pm
    I think Alderson would not take Joba, but would instead want a package like:

    C — Romine or Murphy
    2B–CoJo
    OF–Slade, Mesa
    SP–Noesi, Warren, etc.

    I other words, a big package of kids under control that can fill several holes.

    ——————–

    A) Alderson would need at least one proven major leaguer
    B) I don’t know how much Cash would be willing to give up for a guy coming off multiple injuries
    C) It ain’t happening :-)

  75. TheStraw February 3rd, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    I hereby promise to savor every game of the next two years. Because as hard as this news is to take, it’s going to be even worse when the GOAT calls it quits. Viva Mo!

  76. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    The only Yankee with a higher team winning percentage last year than Hughes was Andy Pettitte. The Yankees won a better rate of games with Hughes on the mound than even CC. Just need the pitchers to keep the team in it until the pen.

  77. ac1 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    at last the yankees have freed u some extra money and now know what they have to do, regarding another top starter.

  78. ac1 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    I think Alderson would not take Joba, but would instead want a package like:

    C — Romine or Murphy
    2B–CoJo
    OF–Slade, Mesa
    SP–Noesi, Warren, etc.

    I other words, a big package of kids under control that can fill several holes.

    __________

    Way too much to give up for anyone not names Felix of Josh Johnson.

  79. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    DaSaint007 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:31 pm
    Poll:

    Where would you rather see Johan end up:

    Phillies
    boston
    Yankees
    Texas
    Angels
    Tampa Bay

    —————–

    Assuming he would accept a trade there I say Texas makes the most sense of the teams you’ve listed.

  80. YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Phil Hughes ERA post All-Star break = 4.90 = question mark.

    All that money spent and Brian Cashman has ONE reliable starting pitcher… ONE!

    past time for a change

  81. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    ac1 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:39 pm
    at last the yankees have freed u some extra money and now know what they have to do, regarding another top starter
    —————–

    Yes – get in touch with Yu Darvish and make damn sure he plans to come to America next year.

  82. West Coast Yankee Fan February 3rd, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    How many wins would have reasonable to expect from Pettitte this year? 12-15? That’s a lot to make up.

  83. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    Phil Hughes ERA post All-Star break = 4.90 = question mark.

    He pitched to a 3.75 ERA against all teams other than the Blue Jays after the Break.
    Explain how that is a question mark.

    What do you think it is making you question?

  84. randy l. February 3rd, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    andy-

    no problem. that’s exciting to be young and working in the game.

  85. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    How many wins would have reasonable to expect from Pettitte this year? 12-15? That’s a lot to make up.

    Only if you think its impossible for a non-andy pettitte pitcher to win a game. If someone throws league average for the same amount of innings the yankees will end up with near as many team wins.

  86. SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    No question it’s going to be a challenge.

    However, it’s also exciting.

    Lots of opportunities for guys to get a chance now.

    It’s makes it fun and interesting at the same time.

  87. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    For what it’s worth:

    From Pete Abe on Twitter:

    “Would Seattle give up Felix for Montero, Banuelos and Nunez?”

    I say no they wouldn’t

  88. TheStraw February 3rd, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    My prediction for surprise Yankee contributor in 2011: Adam Warren.

  89. West Coast Yankee Fan February 3rd, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    No, it’s a lot to make up, period.

  90. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    No, it’s a lot to make up, period.

    Why do you think so?

  91. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    I remember there being talk of the Dominican kid (DePaula?) likely being fast tracked to the majors – who knows.

  92. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    Just need the pitchers to keep the team in it until the pen.
    ====================================
    Better hope they don’t burnout..

  93. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    Better hope they don’t burnout..

    Too many quality arms to burn out.

  94. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    TheStraw February 3rd, 2011 at 3:44 pm
    My prediction for surprise Yankee contributor in 2011: Adam Warren.

    —————–

    I’ve got Phelps

  95. Nick in SF February 3rd, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    17.5 is probably high as a realistic o/u given all the variables that can hurt a starter’s win total, I would probably take the under too as a pure gambling proposition without favorable odds.

    Maybe 15.5 is a better number, then I would feel better taking the over.

  96. West Coast Yankee Fan February 3rd, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    Why do I think so? Why did they want Pettitte back? Because it’s not easy to win 12-15 games in the AL East.

  97. randy l. February 3rd, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    “All that money spent and Brian Cashman has ONE reliable starting pitcher… ONE!

    past time for a change”

    didn’t you make a reference to cedric maxwell yesterday?

    why would a yankee fan make a reference to an ex boston basketball player and present day broadcaster?

  98. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    Why do I think so? Why did they want Pettitte back? Because it’s not easy to win 12-15 games in the AL East

    They wanted pettitte back because of the reasonable assumption that he would throw 100+ innings at league average or better. That doesn’t mean it is difficult for a non-andy pettitte pitcher to win baseball games.

    They’ve only won less than 94 games once in the 2000′s with far crappier rotations. They don’t need any one pitcher to replace andy’s “wins”, they just need the team to win games.

  99. YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    Phil Hughes ERA post All-Star break = 4.90 = question mark.

    He pitched to a 3.75 ERA against all teams other than the Blue Jays after the Break.
    Explain how that is a question mark.

    What do you think it is making you question?

    ————————————————————–

    Every pitcher looks better when you take out their worst performances.

    4.90 = question mark, not matter how hard you wish to twist it.

    And game after game after game after game of one 20-pitch inning after another because he couldn’t put anybody away.

  100. ac1 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    Yes – get in touch with Yu Darvish and make damn sure he plans to come to America next year.

    __

    I worry the Yankees are gunshy about pitchers from Japan now.

    Has there been one that has turned out amazing for their team?

  101. TheStraw February 3rd, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    WCYF-

    Not is you assume that they will score the same amount of runs. A medicore pitcher should still win at least 6 of those games with the type of run support the Yanks provide. They just have to find a way to get the over the hill or unproven guys to put up 5-6 good games of low ERA. And this is without changing any of AJ’s or Phil’s projections, which I think on average will be the same.

    The crushing blow, if there is one, will be if CC either gets injured or has a very substandard year. Short of that, rumors of the Yankees demise are greatly exaggerated.

  102. randy l. February 3rd, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    nick-

    if the variable of being healthy were taken out of the equation, i still think he’ll probably be under 18 wins simple because even when a pitcher is good 18 games is a high number. i think hughes was lucky to have gotten that many last year.

  103. ac1 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:46 pm
    TheStraw February 3rd, 2011 at 3:44 pm
    My prediction for surprise Yankee contributor in 2011: Adam Warren.

    —————–

    I’ve got Phelps

    ___________

    No one going for Brackman?

  104. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    Too many quality arms to burn out.
    ========================
    Joba, Robo, Mitre,
    Feliciano- one batter
    Logan
    Soriano
    Mo

    Joba and Robo will have to carry the load….hmmmm

  105. SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    How ya doing researching an answer to my question yankeesnmore?

    “past time for a change” and quoting stats without context isn’t gonna cut it.

    That’s just avoiding answering the question.

    In case you haven’t figured it out yet, there are no “sure things”.

    It’s sports and not a scripted play.

    If the uncertainty makes you uncomfortable and wet your pants, you only have two options:

    1. Buy a box of Dependz to get you through the season.
    2. Don’t watch.

    Calling for a change daily that isn’t happening anytime soon is not only boring, it’s uninteresting.

  106. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    Every pitcher looks better when you take out their worst performances.

    4.90 = question mark, not matter how hard you wish to twist it.

    And game after game after game after game of one 20-pitch inning after another because he couldn’t put anybody away.

    I’m not removing any games, but it shows that against all but one team he would be a good bet to keep the team in the game. And yet with all that supposed trouble he won 18 games. What do you think he is going to do next year? Do you just not know? I think its nearly certain he will be as good or better. Do you think he will worse? How much worse?

  107. ac1 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    Phil Hughes ERA post All-Star break = 4.90 = question mark.

    He pitched to a 3.75 ERA against all teams other than the Blue Jays after the Break.
    Explain how that is a question mark.

    What do you think it is making you question?

    ————————————————————–

    Every pitcher looks better when you take out their worst performances.

    4.90 = question mark, not matter how hard you wish to twist it.

    And game after game after game after game of one 20-pitch inning after another because he couldn’t put anybody away.

    ___________________

    You mean like focusing on the worst two months and ignoring the first half of the season?

  108. RS February 3rd, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    The only solace that I take from Pettitte’s retirement (besides the fact that he went out on top) is that it was going to come eventually. Given that next year’s FA class isn’t any more remarkable than this year’s, the Yankees would have found themselves in this exact position by 2012 even if Andy had stayed for one more year. For the retirement to come sooner rather than later just gives the Yankees extra time to find a long-term replacement, hopefully through the farm.

    I see the opening day rotation as Sabathia, Hughes, Burnett, Garcia, and Nova, with Mitre making the pen as a long reliever. Certainly not the way the Yankees drew it up, but it might be fun going into the season as underdogs for a change.

  109. disco stu February 3rd, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    Sad day, but still happy and grateful to say that I watched the entire career of the great Andy Pettitte.

    How fitting that his final start was in the post season, matched up against a dominant counterpart in Cliff Lee, and even though he lost, he pitched his heart and soul out (and we found later, just how badly he was hurting too).

    He was so clutch and completely fearless.

  110. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    ac1 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:49 pm
    Yes – get in touch with Yu Darvish and make damn sure he plans to come to America next year.

    __

    I worry the Yankees are gunshy about pitchers from Japan now.

    Has there been one that has turned out amazing for their team?

    —————

    Nope but then again they’ve been hit and miss with American pitchers too.

  111. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    If you look at it by Month, Hughes had 5 ERA’s in June and July and then rebounded in August and Sept, so it looks like he started to recover. Which means he is no longer a question mark by your logic.

  112. ac1 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    There is an easy explanation for Hughes tailing off in August and September….. First FULL season starting. However, when they needed him to step up against the Jays and Sox that last week, he did.

  113. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    Certainly not the way the Yankees drew it up, but it might be fun going into the season as underdogs for a change.
    ======================
    So I guess the offseason is over and we finished 2nd.
    Congrats to the rs…

  114. BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    C) It ain’t happening
    —————————————-
    Time will tell.

    People thought I was nuts when I said Lee wasn’t coming here, they thought I was crazy when I said we should pursue Soriano as #1 off-season acquisition, they thought I was totally crazy when I started wearing my underwear outside my suit at work, and they thought I was certifiable when I started mailing letters as the Mad Bomber…uh…nevermind.

  115. TheStraw February 3rd, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    By on average, I mean Phil wins 3 or 4 games less and AJ wins 3 or 4 games more, or they put up similar seasons to last year. If they both have plus seasons, even better. I just can’t see the Yanks dropping below the 90 win mark in any scenario, and I still believe they will somewhere between 95-98 wins. So many players underperformed last year, and I believe that some of them if not most of them will turn things around.

  116. Triple Short of a Cycle February 3rd, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    Jerkface,

    Last time I checked facing the Blue Jays counts toward your ERA. If Hughes does not adust like the league has to him it is going to be a long season.

  117. Triple Short of a Cycle February 3rd, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    ac1,

    he started tailing off a lot sooner then that. I think Junes was when he started going downhill

  118. Wave Your Hat February 3rd, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    Why is Phil a question mark?

    His ERA for the first 4 years: 4.46 6.62 3.03 4.19

    His Era for the first 10 games of 2010 vs the remainer of 2010: 2.54 vs. 5.11. I don’t buy the bit about the Jays, my guess is many pitchers show similar anomalies.

    His total starts in the majors: 57

    You can root for Phil, believe he will get better, and at the same time understand he is a question mark.

  119. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    Andy was so reliable last year and when he went down it appeared the team did as well. That was his value, a stopper in the middle of the rotation preventing prolonged losing streaks.
    We don’t have that anymore.

  120. YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    You mean like focusing on the worst two months and ignoring the first half of the season?
    ——————————————————————————————————–
    Good point… Let’s not “ignore” anything… Let’s take the entire season.

    How about this then? In a Renaissance year for pitchers, the guy who is clearly our SECOND-best starter heading into 2011 had an ERA of 4.19.

    The guy who is CLEARLY our #3 had an ERA of 5.26!

    Behind them, we have some kid who can’t make two turns through a lineup and the great Sergio Mitre?

    QUICK! When do World Series tickets go on sale???

  121. BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    They don’t need any one pitcher to replace andy’s “wins”, they just need the team to win games.
    ++++++++++++++
    You nailed the point everyone seems to be missing. It is a team game.

  122. champ809 February 3rd, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    Hughes will be fine and will be a better pitcher than last year’s version.

    He most certainly needs to figure out what to do against the BlueJays who OWNED him last year!

    If he pitches as well as he did last year I think he will win 18 with a very good chance at 20-21 wins.

    My opinion is based on the hypothesis that the offense will rake and be better than last yr and this bullpen may be virtually unhittable and will not be giving up many if any leads.

    This season will hinge on what AJ does. If he can find himself and pitch like a #2/2A guy then the Yanks will be formidable and win 97-100 games.

  123. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    Last time I checked facing the Blue Jays counts toward your ERA. If Hughes does not adust like the league has to him it is going to be a long season.

    It does count, but he was getting lit up against the jays and handling the other teams just fine. Its like in 09, he had a 5+ era as a starter, but that was due to one unfortunate game in which he blew up. In the rest of his starts he was fine. I would not say, based on that performance, that he is going to pitch poorly every game. You can’t say he won’t pitch poorly once in a while, but Hughes pitched as he did in 2010 and the Yankees won most of his starts.

  124. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    How you guys dismiss the value of Pettitte is beyond me…

  125. BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    Calling for a change daily that isn’t happening anytime soon is not only boring, it’s uninteresting.
    +++++++++++++
    Thank you.

    But to make the poster more comfortable, I’ll be happy to post his URL here on a daily basis so those that want to read his doom and gloom know where to go.

  126. 108 stitches February 3rd, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    Good opportunity for David Phelps, Andrew Brackman, D.J. Mitchell, Hector Noesi, and possibly Adam Warren to fast track their careers. Not the time to rush Betances or Banuelos.

  127. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    Wave, based on those ERA’s I’d say its reasonable to assume Hughes will be somewhere between 3 and 4.5. What is the mystery here? The question mark?

    Like I don’t get it. Is the question mark just that we’re not pencilling him in for the cy young? for a 3 ERA?

  128. Wave Your Hat February 3rd, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    Face-

    With that approach you can make out many pitchers to be better than they are.

  129. SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    This is becoming comical.

    Are you seriously punting the season because the team is not set to your specifications now?

    Seriously, what do you think the odds are the Yankees roster will remain the same between now and October?

    It’s as if you have never followed a baseball season before in your life.

    BTW, how is researching the answer to my question going. Need help drafting a response?

  130. Wave Your Hat February 3rd, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    “somewhere between 3 and 4.5″

    That’s a pretty big swing kimo sabe.

  131. upstate kate February 3rd, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    YNM
    Do you even like the Yankees? I have never seen you post anything positive about any Yankee player.

  132. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 3:58 pm
    You mean like focusing on the worst two months and ignoring the first half of the season?
    ——————————————————————————————————–
    Good point… Let’s not “ignore” anything… Let’s take the entire season.

    How about this then? In a Renaissance year for pitchers, the guy who is clearly our SECOND-best starter heading into 2011 had an ERA of 4.19.

    The guy who is CLEARLY our #3 had an ERA of 5.26!

    Behind them, we have some kid who can’t make two turns through a lineup and the great Sergio Mitre?

    QUICK! When do World Series tickets go on sale???

    ——————

    And yet for all your whining you still have yet to answer the question of what you would have done differently.

    You have though managed to give me a headache…so congrats for that.

  133. blake February 3rd, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    Hughes is gonna turn the ?’s into !’s in 2011.

  134. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    That’s a pretty big swing kimo sabe.

    But all the values pretty good for a young pitcher in the AL east

  135. TheStraw February 3rd, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    2005 rotation: Johsnon, Wang, Pavano, Mussina, Wright, Brown–still won 95 games. Wang was 8-5, Pavano, Brown and Wright all sucked. Only the Unit and Mussina had decent years. The Bullpen was not as good as this years pen should be. Do the pessimists really think this years pitching staff is worse than that years?

  136. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    Other than CC, who can you pencil in to give you length?
    That pen will be on fumes in June.
    I can picture many high scoring games.

  137. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    Other than CC, who can you pencil in to give you length?

    Hughes, Burnett, Garcia

  138. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    upstate kate February 3rd, 2011 at 4:05 pm
    YNM
    Do you even like the Yankees? I have never seen you post anything positive about any Yankee player.

    ———————–

    well he doesn’t post anything positive about the Yankees because Brian Cashman put together such an “awful team” that there’s nothing positive to say about the Yankees.

    Oh lord – I feel dirty; I’m able to anticipate his line of thinking.

    past time for a change.

  139. Wave Your Hat February 3rd, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    “But all the values pretty good for a young pitcher in the AL east”

    Yes but I was letting you ignore that 5.11 ERA from June 8th on.

  140. Triple Short of a Cycle February 3rd, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    champ809,

    Why do you think Hughes will be better? He didn’t hit a rookie wall in August or Sept. the league figured him out back in June. How many 0-2 counts turned into hits or walks?

    Even the best pitchers in the league struggle to win 20 games yet Hughes is going to win 20-21?

    I think you have to hope for 90 wins this year. To think if AJ comes back to form they will win 97 -100 is insane

  141. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    Yes but I was letting you ignore that 5.11 ERA from June 8th on.

    4.5 ERA from August 1st on. Selective end points!

  142. SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    Mick,

    I don’t think anyone is undervaluing Andy and his importance to the team. It’s a big loss to the team.

    However, he’s retiring and there is a season to be played.

    Showing how the Yankees can fill the hole, and not buying into the drivel that none of the pitchers will show any signs of improvement isn’t meant to be a slight to Andy.

    It’s merely pointing out the season isn’t over before it begins.

  143. TheStraw February 3rd, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    And for that matter, 2004 rotation: Javy, Lieber, Mussina, Brown, Contreras and an aging El Duque. Team came within one (painful) game of WS.

  144. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    Other than CC, who can you pencil in to give you length?

    Hughes, Burnett, Garcia
    =======================
    Disagree.
    Sorry. Garcia and AJ are major ???

  145. TheStraw February 3rd, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    and won 101 games.

  146. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    How many 0-2 counts turned into hits or walks?

    5 walks, 36 hits, 172 PA

  147. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    Sorry. Garcia and AJ are major ???

    Look at Garcia’s game log, he went deep often. Burnett averaged into the 6th inning last year, and 6+ innings in 09. Hughes averaged exactly 6 innings per start in 2010.

    No pitcher is a guarantee.

  148. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    It’s merely pointing out the season isn’t over before it begins.
    ====================
    SJ
    I realize that but his value will be very hard to replace.
    Needless to say in the postseason as well.
    I’m certainly not throwing in the towel but if they struggle, can see a major deal with Montero involved.

  149. Erin February 3rd, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    So cute:

    cgrand14 Fans, include #Pettitte in all of your tweets today and tomorrow. Let’s make him a trending topic!

  150. Triple Short of a Cycle February 3rd, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    Jerkface,

    I meant to say how many 2 strike counts. I remember 1 Bal game in Camden after they gave him a big lead he could not put hitters away after getting ahead 1-2 or 2-2

  151. West Coast Yankee Fan February 3rd, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    Yes it’s a team game and for the team to win you need starting pitchers that can prevent the bad guys from scoring a lot of runs and go deep enough into a game to give you a chance to win. And the one’s that do that well win games. And Andy was good for 10-15 wins probably. If it was so easy to replace him, no one would be making a big deal about him being missed.

  152. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Send Joba and a low level minor leaguer to the Pirates; bring back Maholm and take Ryan Doumit’s contract as well.

    They can either keep Doumit as another bat on the bench or spin him off to someone for a reliever.

  153. TheStraw February 3rd, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Yankees have won less than 90 games exactly twice in the last 15 years. One season they missed the playoffs, and the other season, they won the the World Series. Kind of hard to sit here and say the sky is falling when it isn’t.

  154. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    I gave you after 0-2

    After 1-2: 18 BB, 52 H 247 PA
    After 2-2: 29 BB, 28 H 199 PA

    2 strikes overall: 417 PA , batters hit .189 .266 .301 .568

  155. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Look at Garcia’s game log, he went deep often. Burnett averaged into the 6th inning last year, and 6+ innings in 09. Hughes averaged exactly 6 innings per start in 2010.
    ================================================
    Garcia has to make the team 1st.
    AJ cannot be counted on.
    It’s a crapshoot and a long season.

  156. Triple Short of a Cycle February 3rd, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    Hughes was not the same pitcher in April and May as he was the rest of the season. Can we all agree on that?

  157. BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    Oh lord – I feel dirty; I’m able to anticipate his line of thinking.

    past time for a change.
    ++++++++++++++
    I’ll send you those Depends coupons! :lol:

  158. TheStraw February 3rd, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    If you want to see what some truly mediocre and bad Yankees teams looked like, see the years 1983-1992. Specifically 1989-92. The rotations were woeful until the Yanks acquired Jimmy Key.

  159. Doreen February 3rd, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    mick -

    No choice but to look forward and figure out other ways to get it done. Perhaps another pitcher steps up; perhaps the wins are spread around among a few.

  160. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    What people are doing, including myself, is fantasizing a rotation composed of CC, Lee, Andy, Hughes and AJ as the 5th starter.

    It might take awhile to get over that.

  161. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    Yes it’s a team game and for the team to win you need starting pitchers that can prevent the bad guys from scoring a lot of runs and go deep enough into a game to give you a chance to win.

    Or you have a good bullpen and a good offense and good defense. Look at 2009, no 20 game winner, 14, 13, 9 wins from the 2-3-4 starters. Aceves managed to vulture 10 wins.

    Wins will be got by Yankee pitchers this year. Enough to make up for Andy’s departure.

    The only area I’m concerned with Andy leaving is the postseason. He was stalwart.

  162. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 4:18 pm
    Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    Oh lord – I feel dirty; I’m able to anticipate his line of thinking.

    past time for a change.
    ++++++++++++++
    I’ll send you those Depends coupons!
    ———-

    He’s been pretty quiet – maybe his mom came home and told him to get off the computer.

  163. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    Hughes was not the same pitcher in April and May as he was the rest of the season. Can we all agree on that?

    But he is the same human that was pitching in April or May. Those performances were his. If anything he is more experienced now, coming into spring training with a spot in the rotation and things to work on.

  164. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:20 pm
    What people are doing, including myself, is fantasizing a rotation composed of CC, Lee, Andy, Hughes and AJ as the 5th starter.

    It might take awhile to get over that.

    ——————

    Understandable.

  165. brownies February 3rd, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    If we had a healthy andy in 2004 we would’ve beaten them. Oh those lost years ..

  166. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    My sympathy for Andy is turning to anger and I might not watch the presser tmorrow.

  167. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    I’ll dvr it but prob won’t watch it live.

  168. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    I will wear my Pettitte shirt tomorrow.
    It’s like a death in the family.

  169. Triple Short of a Cycle February 3rd, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Jerkface,

    I hope your right

  170. blake February 3rd, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    The 2010 AL representatives in the WS did not gave a great rotation. They pitched well in the postseason but they had an ace, a good #2, and a bunch of question marks.

    The Yanks are very solid everywhere but 3-5 in the rotation. We don’t even know how much of a problem the back end is right now….AJ might pitch well for all we know and Nova may as well. They have one problem area and plenty of time and money to address it if they need to.

  171. YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    But he is the same human that was pitching in April or May. Those performances were his. If anything he is more experienced now, coming into spring training with a spot in the rotation and things to work on.
    ——————————————————————————————
    Which makes him a question mark.

    And those aren’t the only questions… What if the injury bug bight him… AGAIN?

  172. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:25 pm
    I will wear my Pettitte shirt tomorrow.
    It’s like a death in the family.

    —————

    He’s not dead – in fact we should all be as lucky as him.

    39 and not only set for life but his grandkids are probably set for life too.

  173. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 4:27 pm
    But he is the same human that was pitching in April or May. Those performances were his. If anything he is more experienced now, coming into spring training with a spot in the rotation and things to work on.
    ——————————————————————————————
    Which makes him a question mark.

    And those aren’t the only questions… What if the injury bug bight him… AGAIN?

    ——————-

    By that logic (or absense of logic) every player who has ever been injured is a questionmark.

  174. BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    In 2010, Andy had a WAR value of 3.1 wins…Garcia has 2.1 wins…Pretty close to replacing Andy from the start.

    Add an improved AJ Burnett and Nova replacing Javy, and the pitching staff is in good enough shape until the trading deadline.

  175. YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    “My sympathy for Andy is turning to anger and I might not watch the presser tmorrow.”
    ———————————————————————————-
    Your anger should be directed at Cashman. Had he not butchered Cliff Lee for the second time in five months, Pettitte would have been back and excited about it a MONTH ago!

  176. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    And those aren’t the only questions… What if the injury bug bight him… AGAIN?

    Ok but what if we spent 180 mil on Lee and his arm fell off, you’d be killing Cashman.

  177. Doreen February 3rd, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    Chip -

    It’s true. He’s retiring on his terms in the prime of his life.

  178. Erin February 3rd, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    This is great:

    YESNetwork Nine amazing Andy Pettitte moments: http://bit.ly/gJxqwt

  179. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 4:29 pm
    “My sympathy for Andy is turning to anger and I might not watch the presser tmorrow.”
    ———————————————————————————-
    Your anger should be directed at Cashman. Had he not butchered Cliff Lee for the second time in five months, Pettitte would have been back and excited about it a MONTH ago!

    ——————-

    So Phil Hughes is a question mark because of past injury problems but Cliff Lee at 32 with a bad back should have been given a 10 year contract?

    Does your mom know what you do with the computer when she’s not around?

  180. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    How in hell is Cash responsible for not getting Lee?
    Did he not offer enough money?
    Just don’t say he could have forced him to sign!!!

  181. BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 4:29 pm
    ++++++++++++
    Do you actually have any friends that still hang around you and that are still alive?

    You are one of the most negative people I have ever seen.

  182. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Doreen February 3rd, 2011 at 4:30 pm
    Chip -

    It’s true. He’s retiring on his terms in the prime of his life.

    ——————–

    and I’m sure that money goes a lot farther in Deer Park than it does in NYC

  183. Pat M. February 3rd, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Let me ask this question ….When you were younger and had just embarked on your careers, did you not start to become a little more relaxed and just a bit smarter after your first year at your job, and didn’t your skills improve during that second year and then subsequently years after ???? Same holds true for ballplayers, the only variable is health and adaptations

  184. Erin February 3rd, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    It’s Cashman’s fault that Lee wanted to go to Philadelphia? :roll:

  185. Benny Blanco February 3rd, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Who in the hell said that young pitchers cant go thru a learning curve? It kills me how many people critize hughes. It was his first full year as a major league pitcher. Is he not allowed to make adjustments as his game matures? GEE WHIZ!!!

  186. YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    …and Nova replacing Javy, and the pitching staff is in good enough shape until the trading deadline.
    ————————————————————————————————-
    Javier Vazquez was absolute dog$#!t last year (another brilliant move from our idiot GM) and Nova’s WHIP was actually HIGHER than Javy’s… Why should anybody but a Boston fan feel GOOD about that?

  187. SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Still waiting for your proof Cashman “butchered” those negotiations.

    You saying so doesn’t make it the case.

    That’s now two questions I’m awaiting the answers to.

  188. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    He’s retiring on his terms in the prime of his life.
    ================================
    Not necessarily so.
    The Clemens issue weighs in.
    I think he knows he can still pitch.
    He reinvented himself last season.

  189. BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    Is the Nmore part of the name a derivation of Norman?

  190. randy l. February 3rd, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    pat m-

    we’re not worried about hughes are we?

  191. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 4:32 pm
    YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 4:29 pm
    ++++++++++++
    Do you actually have any friends that still hang around you and that are still alive?

    You are one of the most negative people I have ever seen.

    —————–

    He’s given me a headache behind my right eye. Maybe if we just tell him to put all his complaints in his blog and we’ll promise to read it he’ll go away…not that we’ll actually read it as I have a feeling it’s written like a psychopath’s diary: youknownospacingorpunctuation

    but we’ll tell him we’ll read it.

  192. Benny Blanco February 3rd, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    YankeesNmore,

    I take it you dont like cashman!

  193. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    You are one of the most negative people I have ever seen.
    =====================================
    I know of one more negative :)

  194. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    You are one of the most negative people I have ever seen.

    Also one of the least attractive I’ve ever seen. Troll in spirit and visage.

  195. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    I know of one more negative

    Careful, you’re fitting to join the category with your talk.

  196. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    Is the Nmore part of the name a derivation of Norman?
    ================
    As in Bates?

  197. justinxdance27 February 3rd, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    Andy has always been my favorite. I cried the day he left for Houston and I’m heartbroken again. However, he is a class act and I have no doubt that he wanted to be with
    his family. I will do what I can to be at Andy Pettitte day even if I do live in Charlotte, NC.

    These pitchers are really going to have to step up but I think we will be okay.

  198. BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    Do you like stuffed animals Norman?

  199. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    Careful, you’re fitting to join the category with your talk.
    ==================================
    Not really.
    Just speculating.
    I will be out there with my team for ST.

  200. Erin February 3rd, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 4:34 pm
    Is the Nmore part of the name a derivation of Norman?

    ********************************
    Are you thinking Norman Bates??? lol

  201. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    Not really.
    Just speculating.

    Speculating on disaster, a trait of the one whom you bully so often.

  202. BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    Is the Nmore part of the name a derivation of Norman?
    ================
    As in Bates?
    ———————
    :lol: Not saying….

  203. BoJo February 3rd, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    But it surely explains a lot, doesn’t it?

  204. Erin February 3rd, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    oops-mick beat me. ;)

  205. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    Speculating on disaster, a trait of the one whom you bully so often.
    =============================================
    Sorry , thought I was helping the mental health of the blog.

  206. West Coast Yankee Fan February 3rd, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    I’m sure home and family mean a lot to Pettitte, they would have to. Deer Park is one of the ugliest and most unhealthy cities in the country; known for it’s oil refineries.

  207. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    # Erin February 3rd, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    oops-mick beat me. ;)
    ==================
    Would never beat you Erin. :)

  208. SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Pat M,

    I think you are directing your question to the wrong people.

    Most of the folks in here today predicting doom for everything Yankees are either unemployed or unemployable.

    They can’t relate.

  209. YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    “Who in the hell said that young pitchers cant go thru a learning curve? It kills me how many people critize hughes. It was his first full year as a major league pitcher. Is he not allowed to make adjustments as his game matures? GEE WHIZ!!!”
    ——————————————————————————————–

    That’s quite a speech… If I may, a question: Why SHOULDN’T Yankees fans expect fewer question marks from their #2 starter?

  210. Bronx Jeers February 3rd, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    No way Cashman was the one responsible for blowing the Lee deal.

    It was Chuck Greenberg in his heroic “Midnight Ride to Little Rock” that killed our shot at getting Lee :wink:

  211. onehundredareneuf February 3rd, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    sj44 im awaiting an answer to how is alex rodriguez’ contract any better than a hypothetical 6 year 180 million deal for lee?

    who knows how lee’s arm will hold up over 6 years, just as who knows how alex will hold up over the length of his contract.

  212. YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    Everybody knows what happens when the message can’t be attacked… Look out messenger.

  213. Wave Your Hat February 3rd, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    Average innings per start in 2010:

    CC: 7
    Hughes: 6
    AJ: 5.2
    Garcia: 5.2

    I won’t count Nova or the others as they don’t have much of a track record, I assume they won’t pitch deeper than Garcia or Hughes.

    Given that Mo and So won’t pitch more than 130 innings between them, that leaves a lot of innings to be pitched by the remaining members of the pen.

  214. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    Most of the folks in here today predicting doom for everything Yankees are either unemployed or unemployable.
    ============
    Or retired.

  215. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 4:42 pm
    Everybody knows what happens when the message can’t be attacked… Look out messenger.

    ————————–

    I believe at least two of us are waiting for you to answer questions we posed of you about your argument.

  216. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    Everybody knows what happens when the message can’t be attacked… Look out messenger.
    ================
    No answer to the Cashman-Lee question?
    Or just ignoring?

  217. YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    What question is that?

  218. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    Wave Your Hat February 3rd, 2011 at 4:42 pm
    Average innings per start in 2010:

    CC: 7
    Hughes: 6
    AJ: 5.2
    Garcia: 5.2

    I won’t count Nova or the others as they don’t have much of a track record, I assume they won’t pitch deeper than Garcia or Hughes.

    Given that Mo and So won’t pitch more than 130 innings between them, that leaves a lot of innings to be pitched by the remaining members of the pen.

    ———————

    That assumes though only 12 people pitch for the Yankees all year long – which we know won’t be the case

  219. ChokeXOnXFailure February 3rd, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    I find it absolutely baffling that should be devoted to Andy and his career, there’s people arguing about firing Cashman and whether or not Phil Hughes is good. This board makes me incredibly sad sometimes.

  220. ChokeXOnXFailure February 3rd, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    absolutely baffling that in a post*

  221. Wave Your Hat February 3rd, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    “That assumes though only 12 people pitch for the Yankees all year long – which we know won’t be the case”

    I made no such assumption.

  222. YankFanCA February 3rd, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    The usual vitriol from SJ44. You must be one exceptional human being to always be belittling others. Then again, you might be just the exact opposite.

  223. Doreen February 3rd, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    Bronx Jeers -

    Thank you for that!!!! Very funny.

    :)

    ****

    Erin -

    Thanks for that link. It just made me more melancholy. And sure makes him look like he should at least get a lot of votes for the HOF.

  224. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 4:45 pm
    What question is that?

    ——————

    I have asked what you would have done differently (and you can’t simply say “signed Cliff Lee” because you can’t force a person to sign where they don’t want to sign)

    And SJ wants to explain (and back up with facts) how Cashman blew the Lee negotiations.

  225. Erin February 3rd, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    ChokeXOnXFailure February 3rd, 2011 at 4:45 pm
    I find it absolutely baffling that should be devoted to Andy and his career, there?s people arguing about firing Cashman and whether or not Phil Hughes is good. This board makes me incredibly sad sometimes.

    ************************
    Completely agree.

  226. randy l. February 3rd, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    “Are you thinking Norman Bates??? lol”

    the kettle ponds along the ocean here on cape cod are great for swimming , but the fog comes in sometimes out of nowhere even on a sunny day. one day while swimming across the lake with a friend out into the fog, a head appeared out of the fog swimming towards us.

    it was norman bates’ head.

    the girl swimming with let out a little shriek.

    anthony perkins laughed as he swam by. he summered in our town and was on his summer vacation.

  227. 108 stitches February 3rd, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    Cashman has at least $12M in reserve if a team looking to shed payroll with a proven starter shakes out at the end of March when rosters are being settled to start the season.

  228. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    ChokeXOnXFailure February 3rd, 2011 at 4:45 pm
    I find it absolutely baffling that should be devoted to Andy and his career, there’s people arguing about firing Cashman and whether or not Phil Hughes is good. This board makes me incredibly sad sometimes.

    ——————

    He was a great Yankee and retired…not a whole lot more to say

  229. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    From FoxSports:

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....uch-020311

  230. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    Given that Mo and So won’t pitch more than 130 innings between them, that leaves a lot of innings to be pitched by the remaining members of the pen.

    How would that stack up to an average team? I don’t think anyone short of the Phillies or Giants are going to get 7+ innings from more than 1 guy.

    Robertson and Joba combined for 133 IP last year. Logan and Feliciano should be up for the entire season. So its 200ish innings for the long man + logan + feliciano + whatever relievers come up and down.

  231. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    The Yankees last year went to their pen for 470 innings.

  232. Erin February 3rd, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Doreen February 3rd, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    Erin -

    Thanks for that link. It just made me more melancholy. And sure makes him look like he should at least get a lot of votes for the HOF.

    ************************
    Doreen-my pleasure. :) I thought it was really cool.

  233. Erin February 3rd, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    randy- that’s hilarious :lol:

    That must have been really cool. Scary at firs though. LOL

  234. Erin February 3rd, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    edit: *first*

  235. hman23 February 3rd, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    After some more time to think, I truly am surprised that Pettitte is hanging them up. He had a solid year, sure he had the injury, but it wasn’t his arm. I really thought he had two years left in him. I figured with the time he took, he was surely coming back for at least one more year.

    Nothing wrong with going out near the top of your game though — which is what he is doing. It’s always sad to see guys hang on for just a bit too long, although it is hard for me to blame anyone for doing so if they are in that position. In the end, Pettitte is in the best position to know what the year would entail, how he expected he would perform, how his body would react, and the sacrifices he would have to make with his family.

    With retirement, funny, but it is usually always viewed as either too early or to late.

  236. Doreen February 3rd, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    Erin -

    It was cool.

    It was nice to see it all laid out like that.

    And it didn’t even talk about what a nice person he is.

    I am so glad I bought my husband that Pettitte t-shirt last year. I should’ve gotten one for myself while I was at it, thought. :? Well, I can always “borrow” his!

  237. UpState February 3rd, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    Javy Lopez II
    Didn’t work out very well.
    Didn’t he finish in the top 3 in voting for the NL Cy Young Award in 2009 ?
    At the time – VG trade (gave up useless Melky).
    Most everyone saw this move as a positive for the Yankees.
    Didn’t work out.
    Does NOT mean the GM was at fault

    Similar to the Blair Thomas draft pick (Jets – Running Back)
    Everyone has him as a ‘premier pick’.
    Good pick – didn’t work out.

    Ken Phelps = bad GM move.

  238. SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    Why would Lee’s 180 million dollar contract be worse than Alex’s?

    Three reasons:

    1. Lee has never been better, or as dominant a player as Alex has been in his career. Even in Alex’s “off season” last year, he was a better player than Lee.

    2. Giving a 32 year old pitcher a 7 year contract who, even at his best, has never strung together two dominant seasons (unlike Arod who had 10+ dominant seasons when he signed his deal) is just plain dumb.

    3. You would be paying him nearly 20% more annually than CC, a guy who logs more innings annually, and is a better pitcher than Lee. You would also pretty much guarantee CC would re-open his deal. Meaning you would have to give CC that kind of money to keep him. All these deals, BTW, would also include the 40% tax hit the Yankees would take on the deals.

    In other words, giving Cliff Lee 180 million dollars, or 60 million more than he signed for, would be the dumbest contract in baseball history and would guarantee the Yankees NOTHING.

  239. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    A-rods deal was stupid, but its stupider to use that deal as a reason to sign another stupid deal. The Yankees don’t need more stupid deals they need less.

  240. hman23 February 3rd, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    meant -

    With retirement, it’s funny, but it is usually viewed as either too early or to late.

  241. RayVT February 3rd, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    The whole starting rotation had issues after the “fight” and that pitching coach is gone. Burnett looked very good till AS break. So did Hughes & Phil still did okay afterwards. CC pitched the last half of the season with a bum knee. Pettite was pitching on sheer desire the last half of the season because of his injury. JV & the Mitre/Moseley/Gaudin/Nova gang split the # 5 slot. I think a healthy front 3 (CC/PH/AJ) will be fine. I like the idea of Nova being the # 5 guy because he won’t have to pitch much in April with days off. I expect either Garcia or Colon or AA/AAA guy to be at least as good as JV & the gang did. I think a mid season pickup or AA/AAA guy stepping up may offset a half of a season production the Yanks got from Andy. And if CC/PH/AJ are good, then that is the 3 you go with in the playoffs.

    SP1 – CC
    SP2 – PH
    SP3 – AJ
    SP4 – FGarcia/SMitre/BColon
    SP5 – Nova

  242. SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    I’m not directing any vitriol toward anybody.

    If you are going to come on here and whine about the same things everyday, sooner or later someone, in this case, chip and I, are going to ask questions about offering proof to the allegations this person is throwing out there.

    If that is “vitriol”, then I suggest you need to grow thicker skin.

    I might add, the questions have still gone unanswered.

  243. cs in la February 3rd, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    Very very sad today. I wish Andy the best.

    Honestly, Im excited for this season. Pitchers are going to step up and we may have some great options on our hands. Mark my words.

  244. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    If that is “vitriol”, then I suggest you need to grow thicker skin.

    For the sake of everyone’s stomachs, lets hope he does not add another greasy layer of skin to his already misshapen body.

  245. Wave Your Hat February 3rd, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    “The Yankees last year went to their pen for 470 innings”

    Face-

    But I’m thinking more like (based on 2010 average IP per start):

    33 games from CC x 2 bullpen IP = 66 bullpen IP,

    + 33 games from Hughes x 3 bullpen IPs = 99 IPs,

    96 IP from the other 3 spots x 5.2 IPs = 320 IPs,

    totalling 485, probably more like 500 because the last spot will probably perform a little worse than 5.2 IP per start.

    Subtract out 130 from Mo and So, you have 370 to be distributed between 5 bullpen slots. Logan will be situational and Feliciano a strict LOOGY, so probably 90 IP between them?

    That leaves 280 IP among 3 bullpen slots, about 93.1 IP per remaining bullpen slot.

    That seems like a lot to me, but I haven’t done any historical research on it.

  246. YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    Bottom line: Cashman was not aggressive in the Lee pursuit.

    He said publicly the Yankees would not have to “pay a premium,” as they did with Sabathia, to get Lee to New York.

    Cashman was wrong. The Yankees were going to have to pay that premium, and he chose not to.

    I disagree with that decision. It’s a matter of whether or not you want to pay the price to win. I want to, Cashman didn’t.

  247. RS February 3rd, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    You know what’s interesting? Beckett is the Red Sox #3 starter. His 5.78 ERA last year was higher than that of ALL of the Yankees projected starters (I’m counting Garcia and Nova in the backend).

  248. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    Subtract out 130 from Mo and So, you have 370 to be distributed between 5 bullpen slots. Logan will be situational and Feliciano a strict LOOGY, so probably 90 IP between them?

    That leaves 280 IP among 3 bullpen slots, about 93.1 IP per remaining bullpen slot.

    That seems like a lot to me, but I haven’t done any historical research on it.

    I think you are underestimating how many innings Logan will get but not by much. I’d say 100 or 110 max for Logan + feliciano combined. But you also are not taking into account relievers who will get called up to pitch double headers, guys who will get called up when everyones gassed, the long reliever who could end up throwing 4 innings in a game or something and save the bullpen.

  249. onehundredareneuf February 3rd, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    sj44 1. fair point 2. fair point, but i said 6 year contract 3. fair point, but cc has already made it known he will not opt out.

    my point is, when you want something, you dont let a little money stand in the way of getting it done, then lose draft picks and spend 30 million on a setup man.

    free agency will be weaker and weaker as years go by, and the only way to get top talent will be to trade an arm and a leg for it. how many arms and legs does our very deep farm system have? what will other teams demand from us for upper talent? robinson cano and chien ming wang for jason michaels?

    can we really count on the banuelos, brackman, etc of our minors?

  250. randy l. February 3rd, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    erin-

    the funny thing was that my friend was always a bit on the emotional side shall we say and reading omens into things. i did think it was funny. ah the good old days of swimming across great pond. i used to swim a mile every summer day back then.

    on a sad note, perkin’s wife berry berenson left from here to be on the flight that crashed into the world trade center. she was a nice lady.used to shop in my business.

  251. Chambliss February 3rd, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    Would you rather have Beckett or AJ? They are both headcases, but at this moment Beckett is the better pitcher.

  252. AZ88 February 3rd, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    YanksNMore

    I agree. No reason not to go 7/$175 for Lee with a vesting 8th year option. If you believe Heyman/Sherman, it might have cost us Andy too.

    At the end of the day, penny pinching has turned a CC=Lee=Hughes=Andy=AJ rotation into a CC=Hughes=Burnett=Garcia/Nova/Mitre/Colon rotation that has no margin for a error and far from a lock for anything.

  253. Wave Your Hat February 3rd, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    I don’t blame Cashman at all for Lee.

    With 20/20 hindsight it is now obvious he shouldn’t have waited on Andy but used Andy’s money to sign the next best starter without waiting to see what happened with Lee, essentially telling Andy the Yanks wouldn’t wait on him.

    If you are determined to blame Cashman for something I think you could make a case there. For myself, I have to admit that at the time I was willing to wait for Andy too.

  254. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    You don’t pay a premium for a player when everyone else is already bidding at premium prices. Unless that player is Albert Pujols.

  255. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    With 20/20 hindsight it is now obvious he shouldn’t have waited on Andy but used Andy’s money to sign the next best starter without waiting to see what happened with Lee, essentially telling Andy the Yanks wouldn’t wait on him.

    The only problem is that the next best starter was Carl Pavano! :x
    I wanted Kuroda but he wanted to stay with the Dodgers :(

  256. Doreen February 3rd, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    I am getting a headache from reading the same stuff from the person with the one-track mind.

    Go root for some other team. Please.

  257. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    YankeesNmore February 3rd, 2011 at 5:01 pm
    Bottom line: Cashman was not aggressive in the Lee pursuit.

    He said publicly the Yankees would not have to “pay a premium,” as they did with Sabathia, to get Lee to New York.

    Cashman was wrong. The Yankees were going to have to pay that premium, and he chose not to.

    I disagree with that decision. It’s a matter of whether or not you want to pay the price to win. I want to, Cashman didn’t.

    ——————

    How is offering more money than anyone else not being aggressive?

  258. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    JP Morosi is making a pretty good argument for the Yankees and Indians doing a Carmona deal.

  259. RS February 3rd, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    To me, this season feels like it’s shaping up to be similar to 2007. That year the Yankees had a dynamite offense but shaky pitching. The Yankees got Clemens mid-season, and also saw the debuts of Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy. That entire year was full of comebacks.

    I see the Yankees again picking up a key pitcher at the deadline, watching the much-anticipated debuts of young prospects, and also being underdogs that will fight from behind with a dangerous offense and improved bullpen.

  260. Yanks78 February 3rd, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    Cash did try and get Pavano… he just wasn’t willing to commit multiple years to him.

    That’s why Andy was perfect – a high quality 1 yr commitment and allows us to slot a young kid in his spot next year.

  261. RS February 3rd, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    “Would you rather have Beckett or AJ? They are both headcases, but at this moment Beckett is the better pitcher.”

    According to what? Certainly not the past couple seasons.

  262. Doreen February 3rd, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    When a player does not come back and ask for a counter-offer, as Lee did not after he got his offer from the Phillies, it tells you everything you need to know about where that player preferred to be playing.

    If he wanted the Yankees, he would have called Cashman and said, if you really want me, you have to beat this number. Lee did not do that. So we do not know FOR SURE whether or not Cashman would have gone a little more. We will never know.

  263. blake February 3rd, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    I don’t get why it’s so tough to grasp that Lee just wanted to go to Philly….that’s what it boiled down to…..he said as much after he signed. Why else would he take 2 less guaranteed years at his age?

  264. onehundredareneuf February 3rd, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    doreen then dont read it. you dont own this blog.

  265. Wave Your Hat February 3rd, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    Face-

    I’m going by bullpen slot, not bullpen pitcher. Each slot could see multiple pitchers, but only one pitcher at a time, so the workload over any given stretch of games is what would count.

    Maybe you stretch Logan + Feliciano to 100 IPs, but Feliciano going to be a strict LOOGY here which he wasn’t with the Mets. And Logan is really a LOOGY but they won’t use him strictly that way.

  266. randy l. February 3rd, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    “Go root for some other team. Please.”

    i think it’s pretty obvious he’s a red sox fan masquerading as a yankee fan.

  267. blake February 3rd, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    If Cliff Lee had wanted to pitch in NY then he would be pitching in NY.

  268. RS February 3rd, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    Could a Carmona deal be done without including Banuelos or Montero? I would offer Betances+ for him.

  269. ac1 February 3rd, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    YanksNMore

    I agree. No reason not to go 7/$175 for Lee with a vesting 8th year option. If you believe Heyman/Sherman, it might have cost us Andy too.

    __

    You serious? That would be absolutely ridiculous.

  270. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    Each slot could see multiple pitchers, but only one pitcher at a time, so the workload over any given stretch of games is what would count.

    Ok i got you, but keep in mind times when a bench player is removed for an extra pitcher or something. The 25 man can get funky. Those hidden ‘scranton innings’ if you will.

  271. LGY February 3rd, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    Yankee fans who were against signing Carl Pavano are going to be wishing he was in Pinstripes at some point this season.

  272. onehundredareneuf February 3rd, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    jerkface you seem to “know” so much about baseball, are you a GM? are you involved in baseball? that’s what i thought. when you have a need and there’s a star pitcher on the market, you pay the premium because you’re the yankees. you’re the yankees. the cash cows. now, who knows if lee would have come to new york for a ton more money? not me, but what i do know, the offer from philly was comparable, so there really wasn’t much of a decision for lee.

  273. Yanks78 February 3rd, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    “Yankee fans who were against signing Carl Pavano are going to be wishing he was in Pinstripes at some point this season.”

    No doubt.

  274. onehundredareneuf February 3rd, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    “If Cliff Lee had wanted to pitch in NY then he would be pitching in NY”

    blake that’s very narrow thinking. with comparable offers, he chose the place he enjoyed pitching, philly. with more money on the table, he very well may have been a yankee.

  275. ac1 February 3rd, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    Maybe we should have just paid lee 200 M. Where does it end?

  276. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    that’s what i thought.

    If its anything like your other thoughts, probably stupid, and incorrect.

  277. blake February 3rd, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    LGY,

    would you have gone 2 or 3 years for Pavano? I would have done 1 year and they offered 1 yr but I lose interest after that.

  278. hman23 February 3rd, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    @AZ88

    $25M for 7 years. For a 32 year-old pitcher with an injury history, and three good years at best. And throw in an option for an 8th year — when he is 40.

    This would have been insane. To not go there is hardly “pinching pennies.”

    If Lee puts up a 18 win season and even a sub 4.00 ERA at age 38, I’ll eat my words. And if he is doing it at 39 and 40, much less even playing at all, I’d be shocked.

  279. Wave Your Hat February 3rd, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    The Yanks offered Lee plenty of money. Offering him more would have just created other, probably bigger, problems.

    Lee just didn’t come here. Get over it.

  280. LGY February 3rd, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    blake,

    I wouldn’t have any reservation offering Pavano 2 years.

    The FA SP class stinks next year.

  281. LGY February 3rd, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    I have a feeling the Yankees may end up trading for Kuroda this season.

  282. onehundredareneuf February 3rd, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    ac1 it doesn’t have to end anywhere. the yankees really could spend however much they feel like, and spend it wisely. there’s no rules stopping us. our payroll doesn’t have to top out at 200 or 215 million.

  283. mick February 3rd, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    # LGY February 3rd, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    Yankee fans who were against signing Carl Pavano are going to be wishing he was in Pinstripes at some point this season.
    ===================
    JOBA TO START???

  284. blake February 3rd, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    LGY,

    yes but it would have been a circus if he had come back and got hurt again….the Yanks likely weren’t willing to take that risk beyond 1 year with Pettite still in the fold and all the young pitchers they have…….

  285. Chip February 3rd, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    LGY February 3rd, 2011 at 5:15 pm
    Yankee fans who were against signing Carl Pavano are going to be wishing he was in Pinstripes at some point this season.

    ———————–

    Not this one.

  286. ac1 February 3rd, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    no way you go more than 1 with pavano considering how his 4 years went last time

  287. LGY February 3rd, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    “Not this one.”

    ———————

    Easy to say that now. Trust me Chipster. You will.

  288. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    ac1 it doesn’t have to end anywhere. the yankees really could spend however much they feel like, and spend it wisely. there’s no rules stopping us. our payroll doesn’t have to top out at 200 or 215 million.

    But it does, and thus the constraints of that payroll, even if they are self-imposed, must be taken into account. Cashman can spend the money, but only as much as Hal wants to.

  289. Laura - I Bleed Blue February 3rd, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    “Bottom line: Cashman was not aggressive in the Lee pursuit.”

    Whether he was or not, it wouldn’t have made a difference. Cliff Lee didn’t want to play here. I know that’s hard to believe, but it’s true. His loss IMO.

  290. ZMAN February 3rd, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    Dodgers would be the ideal realistic trade partner. Them or the Chi Sox.

  291. LGY February 3rd, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    I would have been cool with 2/20 for Carl.

  292. SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    30 million a year and 60 million more than Lee signed for in Philadelphia is not a “little” more money.

    It’s a ton more and its not logical to do it.

    CC said he wouldn’t opt out. What if he changes his mind because he wants “Lee Money”.

    Cliff Lee told a lot of olayers, including CC, on numerous occasions he wanted to play for the Yankees. Guess what? He changed his mind. Same thing could happen with CC.

    “Cashman wasn’t aggressive with Lee”? Again, where is your proof.

    How many times did he talk with Lee’s agent? Lee himself?

    Wouldn’t you need to know the answer to thosemquestions before determining whether or not he was aggressive enough?

    You also fail to comprehend one simple fact in your daily rantings.

    Brian Cashman doesn’t have the authority to offer anybody more money than what ownership AUTHORIZES him to offer.

    In other words, your daily rantings that Brian Cashman didn’t offer Cliff Lee enough money is catagorically incorrect.

    He offered him every cent authorized to offer him from Hal Steinbrenner.

  293. onehundredareneuf February 3rd, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    obviously, pujols isn’t going anywhere. but if by some miracle, pujols tests free agency legitimately, if you’re the yankees, you throw the world at him. yes, we have mark at first, and alex headed for dh in a few years, but you can’t pass up an opportunity at the best player in the game.

  294. ac1 February 3rd, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    ac1 it doesn’t have to end anywhere. the yankees really could spend however much they feel like, and spend it wisely. there’s no rules stopping us. our payroll doesn’t have to top out at 200 or 215 million.

    ____

    You do that and then every FA is making those same ridiculous demands.

  295. upstate kate February 3rd, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    Why is it so hard to comprehend that a player might prefer to go somewhere eles, regardless of the money. Surely when a person is choosing a job, the pay is not the only factor.

  296. Doreen February 3rd, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    “Our” payroll?

    “us”

    Who here is employed by the NY Yankees?

    Pet peeve has always been the “we” thing when talking about the Yankees, but I’ve learned to accept the lingo for the most part and to understand the underlying sentiment.

    But when it comes to payroll and contracts, it is not “we” and it is not “ours.” “We” don’t pay salaries. “We” don’t negotiate. “Our” money is hopefully buying our own food and paying our own rents and not being donated to the NY Yankees to pay their players.

  297. onehundredareneuf February 3rd, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    jerkface sj44 i’m not putting it on cashman. i didn’t say he wasn’t aggressive enough. i didn’t say he had authority to dole out any deal he wanted.

    if the yankees fail to make the postseason this year because of lack of starting pitching, then hal got what he paid (or didn’t pay) for.

  298. Laura - I Bleed Blue February 3rd, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    It’s clear what the Yankee plan is for 2010. Try to hang in the race until the mid season and then trade for a legitimate arm. That’s all they can do at this point.

  299. Wave Your Hat February 3rd, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    Face-

    Andy-like guys the Yanks could have tried to sign had they not waited on Andy:

    Jorge De La Rosa
    Hiroki Kuroda (maybe if they acted fast and gave more $$)
    Carl Pavano
    Jake Westbrook (see Kuroda)

  300. Betsy February 3rd, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    Well it’s beyond disappointing, though of course this day was always going to come. I knew he wasn’t coming back, but still – I held out a glimmer of hope.

    I’m experiencing a mixture of feelings now – slight annoyance (I know I shouldn’t feel this way, but with the state of the rotation, I can’t help it), disappointing (because Andy has years left in him) and sadness. What a career he had and what a Yankee he was. Normally I would say that athletes who leave at the top would regret leaving when they know they have good years left, but Andy is doing this for his family and his family is more important than his career, so I don’t think he will regret it.

    His retirement leaves a gaping hole in the clubhouse- the kids looked up to him, I think particularly Phil, and even CC did. Andy was the wise old man – and no one can replace him. He also leaves a gaping hole in the rotation. It’s going to take an awful lot of wishing and hoping for our SP to be up to snuff

  301. Laura - I Bleed Blue February 3rd, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    “Who here is employed by the NY Yankees?”

    Doreen, didn’t you hear? I’m their new travel secretary. :)

  302. 108 stitches February 3rd, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    The sky hasn’t fallen. 162 games is a long season. It was a foregone conclusion that that Yankees would not have a 162-0 season contrary to the belief of some.
    Smart baseball, timely hitting, and clutch pitching can make up any flaws.

  303. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    At a certain point a player becomes cost prohibitive, even for the Yankees. Lee was already offered to be the highest paid pitcher in baseball for more years guaranteed than either Texas or the Phillies. He choose to go to the Phillies and bank on his own health.

  304. onehundredareneuf February 3rd, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    doreen yes, i do work for the yankees. not their baseball operations, but i do work for the yankees. pet peeve of “our” and “us.” you’re not very adult-like for a grown up.

    ac1 that’s what you want if you’re the yankees. when other free agents start making those demands, then the yankees have driven up the price for other teams and put every other team at a disadvantage.

  305. RayVT February 3rd, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    Maybe Andy unretires around July after the Clemens mess is settled. Just a thought. It would give him plenty of time to completely heal & also get in shape again.

  306. Doreen February 3rd, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    Laura – I Bleed Blue -

    Congratulations! :lol:

  307. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    Jorge De La Rosa
    Hiroki Kuroda (maybe if they acted fast and gave more $$)
    Carl Pavano
    Jake Westbrook (see Kuroda)

    Pass on De La Rosa, he would be one of the expensive questionmarks everyone is crying about.
    Kuroda I was so down for, but I guess he really just wanted to be a dodger. Being a japanese pitcher, familiarity and a team closer to Japan were probably what facilitated that.
    Pavano I was for signing, but he was unsigned as of like 2 weeks ago. They could have signed him and almost did!
    Westbrook I’m less enthused about, but I guess would have been an ok option.

  308. Laura - I Bleed Blue February 3rd, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    “Congratulations!”

    Thanks. I also hit Mega Millions last night as well. :P

  309. LGY February 3rd, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    Wave

    I think de la Rosa would have been a disaster in the AL. East

  310. ac1 February 3rd, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    ac1 that’s what you want if you’re the yankees. when other free agents start making those demands, then the yankees have driven up the price for other teams and put every other team at a disadvantage.

    __

    Except when they only ask it from the yankees and take less from another team. Cliff Lee.

  311. vrsce February 3rd, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    Hall of Fame player.
    thanks Andy.

  312. upstate kate February 3rd, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    BTW- nice to see you Laura

  313. onehundredareneuf February 3rd, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    jerkface i agree. at a certain point. but i believe my “certain point” is much higher than your “certain point.” and we both really have no exact information on which we are basing our projections.

    my overall philosophy, you’re the yankees, you only have one advantage, that’s the money. you use it to better your team and at the same time, you put other teams at a disadvantage by driving up the price of other players for other teams.

  314. Doreen February 3rd, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    What is your problem with me, onehundredareneuf?

    Everyone else has had their say about Yankeesnmore ramblings, and I say something and you attack me.

    You work for the Yankees? Well, then, goody for you and go on saying “we” and “ours,” by all means.

  315. SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    If you work for the Yankees, you realize posting on blogs, especially being critical of ownership, is a firable offense, don’t you?

  316. Wave Your Hat February 3rd, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    Face and LGY-

    I’m not arguing Cashman should have gone for any of those guys, like I said at the time I was always for waiting on Andy.

    Just that with 20/20 hindsight, those guys would have been better than Garcia etc.

  317. Patrick February 3rd, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    Lee just didn’t come here. Get over it.

    Impossible for certain people to get over bad things without blaming someone else. Mainly stupid people..

  318. hman23 February 3rd, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    @jerkface

    . . . and to feast on the NL with perhaps the hopes of luring some other team to overpay him.

    Lee made it clear in his press conference that going to the NL and pitching against the pitcher rather than the DH was a motivating factor.

    Nobody knows the future for sure, but if I could place a bet, I would put in on Yankee fans being more relieved than regretful in four years.

  319. Betsy February 3rd, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    Sam has huge questions about this team as well – he said in the chat that it would take a near historic offense to overcome the ? in our rotation (which almost included Phil). I think that might be overstating it a bit, but it is going to take a mighty effort.

  320. onehundredareneuf February 3rd, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    good chatting. haven’t been around much this offseason. can’t wait for ST. see ya.

  321. joeman February 3rd, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    and for those who think Andy will ride into NY on his white horse come summer time it isn’t going to happen

  322. 108 stitches February 3rd, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    Expect the leadership role Andy leaves to be picked up by C.C. along with the longtime leadership that Mariano has shown for years.
    Now down to a Core Three and after 2011 when Posada leaves, a Core Two.

  323. Laura - I Bleed Blue February 3rd, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    “BTW- nice to see you Laura”

    Thanks, kate. I’ve been MIA for a while now for a number of reasons. I hope to be posting on a regular basis soon. The baseball blog world should not have to be deprived of my 100% correct opinions. :P

  324. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    my overall philosophy, you’re the yankees, you only have one advantage, that’s the money. you use it to better your team and at the same time, you put other teams at a disadvantage by driving up the price of other players for other teams.

    But once you hit the luxury tax threshold every dollar you spend over it sends 40 cents to the other teams. Thus you can’t have an unlimited payroll and thus the Yankees can only wield their might so often. They are able to sign certain players to huge deals. They thought Lee was worth being paid the highest salary for a pitcher in baseball other than CC, but not more.

  325. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    I’m not arguing Cashman should have gone for any of those guys, like I said at the time I was always for waiting on Andy.

    Just that with 20/20 hindsight, those guys would have been better than Garcia etc.

    I agree with you, except for DeLaRosa and Westbrook. I wanted Kuroda and Pavano regardless of Pettitte coming back.

  326. onehundredareneuf February 3rd, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    sj44 i’m a low level nobody. im not associated with their baseball or on-field operations. i’m anonymous on the internet, they have thousands of employees, you think they’re going to recognize my writing style? please…

  327. Doreen February 3rd, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    Okay. I think someone is back on this blog who had been missing for quite a while.

  328. Betsy February 3rd, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    So the Yankees, per Buster, think they can just get a pitcher at the deadline? Just by snapping their fingers? Like teams won’t be holding them up for their best prospects…………..and I thought Cash just said he’d rather get a pitcher now instead of then. So, which is it?

  329. Wave Your Hat February 3rd, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    Actually, the Yankee and Philly offers to Cliff Lee were very comparable if you assume Cliff Lee still has residual value at the end of the Philly contract:

    http://atlanta.sbnation.com/at.....rs-compare

  330. Laura - I Bleed Blue February 3rd, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    “If you work for the Yankees, you realize posting on blogs, especially being critical of ownership, is a firable offense, don’t you?”

    Not to worry, SJ44. I only work for the Yankees in the FRINGE alternate universe – just like onehundredareneuf. :P

  331. Doreen February 3rd, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    SJ44 -

    Think about his screen name.

  332. LGY February 3rd, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    Wave

    Yeah I understand but I honestly don’t think de la Rosa would be better than Garcia or Millwood.

  333. SJ44 February 3rd, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    You would be surprised how easily they can find out who you are if they so choose.

    Whether you are a low level employee or Randy Levine, if you post on blogs, and are critical of ownership, it’s a fireable offense.

    They also don’t employ “thousands” of people. More like in the 400 range.

  334. Patrick February 3rd, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    Betsy,

    Pitchers come available at every deadline, this year will be no different. Teams fall our of contention and want to shed payroll or get more than a draft pick for their pending free agents.

  335. Betsy February 3rd, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    Jerkface, then you have to take Phil’s best games out as well……………and then what about the post-season, where the Rangers knocked him around? Wave, I agree with you……

  336. Wave Your Hat February 3rd, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    “They also don’t employ “thousands” of people. More like in the 400 range.”

    Counting the stadium vendors?

  337. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    Jerkface, then you have to take Phil’s best games out as well……………and then what about the post-season, where the Rangers knocked him around?

    I’m not saying remove them, but he pitched more good games than he did bad. Whats hard to understand about that? Do you think he is going to blow up every start? And yea he wasn’t great against the Rangers, but he was great against the twins!

  338. Betsy February 3rd, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    Jerkface, I’m going to check out ESPN and all the “youngish” pitchers in the AL East and see what their numbers are. The problem is that once his hot streak was over, his numbers were bad……

  339. Betsy February 3rd, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    Jerkface, he was good against a toasted Twins team and he was more than just not great against the Rangers – awful pretty much comes to mind.

    I think he can improve, but IMO it’s not a given.. The problem is that the Yankees need him to improve – a lot – to the point where he’s pitching like a#2 (unless AJ does a complete turnaround)

  340. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    The problem is that once his hot streak was over, his numbers were bad……

    His ERA was under 5 after August 1. His overall numbers were bad because they were skewed by select very bad games. In the actual games he pitched, he was more likely to be good than bad.

    Its like if you look at these averages

    .333 average, .333 average

    0/3,0/3,3/3 – 1/3,1/3,1/3

    The average is the same but how they were achieved was not. Hughes was not uniformly bad throughout all his starts.

  341. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    he was good against a toasted Twins team

    Why are the twins ‘toasted’?? They won 94 games, more than the Rangers. Why can’t Hughes be absolved for pitching far beyond his limits? His regular season total was already a career high.

  342. Wave Your Hat February 3rd, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    “The average is the same but how they were achieved was not. Hughes was not uniformly bad throughout all his starts.”

    Face-

    Uniform badness doesn’t last long in the majors.

  343. Betsy February 3rd, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    Anyway, the bigger ? is AJ……………and Nova and Mitre, oh boy.

    I can’t believe anyone is blaming Cash for Lee wanting to pitch in Philly; he did not want to pitch here – period, end of story.

  344. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    The problem is that the Yankees need him to improve – a lot – to the point where he’s pitching like a#2 (unless AJ does a complete turnaround)

    No, they don’t. They just need him to stay the same or improve slightly.

  345. Betsy February 3rd, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    Patrick, I just know how this always works. Teams, no matter how badly they may want to shed payroll, have no desire to help the Yankees. They will demand their best prospects for a mediocre pitcher- that’s how it has been and always will be.

  346. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    Uniform badness doesn’t last long in the majors.

    Truth. Though I’m sure some exist. (though it may be on position player side)

  347. LGY February 3rd, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    :arrow:

  348. Betsy February 3rd, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    Jerkface, every pitcher has “bad” games, but when Phil was bad, he was terrible (Houston, the 2nd Sox game, The Jays games, Angels, Seattle)…….and that’s not counting games like in Tampa when he gave up a 2 run HR to Dan Johnson of all people, ruining a good game (bad pitches at bad times came back to bite him).

    Do I think he’ll be bad? No way…………but I have to wait and see as to his progress on his breaking pitches, his ability to put hitters away and his tendency to give up HRs before I say that he’s going to be very good.

  349. Betsy February 3rd, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    Jerkface, no I disagree. They need Phil to pitch like a #2 because the rest of their rotation is full of holes………..

  350. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    his ability to put hitters away and his tendency to give up HRs before I say that he’s going to be very good.

    He doesn’t have to be very good, though! He only has to be the same as 2010, but preferably improved slightly.

  351. hman23 February 3rd, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    @Betsy

    All the games count. And by all accounts, Phil Hughes had a very good season for his first full year starting for the Yankees. Pitching for this team in this environment is simply harder than in other places. He showed not only the stuff, but the mental makeup to compete under the microscope at a young age. He certainly did better than what I was hoping for out of him. I am looking forward to an even better season this year, and see no reason why it will not happen.

    I don’t think you realize how special it is that a 23 year-old kid came in and did the job that he did last year.

    Be happy with it, and hopefully we can cherish watching the next Yankee great for many years to come.

  352. Jerkface February 3rd, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    Jerkface, no I disagree. They need Phil to pitch like a #2 because the rest of their rotation is full of holes………..

    No, they really don’t. They just need the aggregate performance of the pitching staff to be around the same (but preferably better with the exclusion of Vazquez) as last year. The bullpen is going to better, which gives the starters more leeway.

  353. Latroy Farnsworth February 3rd, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    An dy Pett itte clap clap, clap clap clap
    An dy Pett itte clap clap, clap clap clap
    An dy Pett itte clap clap, clap clap clap

    A Yankee great that will be missed tremendously.
    Thanks for the memories

  354. UpState February 3rd, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    Not to bust chops, but really ….

    ….What does “onehundredareneuf” mean ???

    one hundred are neuf (most of us can “get” the obvious first 3 segments)

    A – supposed to be ENUF ?

    B – internet slang NEUF ?

    C – actual name ? (Jusin Neuf)

    D – just a typo ?

    ….just curious – no venom.

  355. JCPD February 3rd, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    onehundredareneuf February 3rd, 2011 at 5:13 pm
    doreen then dont read it. you dont own this blog.

    ————————————————————————————–
    appears to me Doreen’s just stating a sentiment shared by many on this blog. Now if the techs would only give us an ignore feature, no one would even have to see what they didn’t want to read.

  356. MG February 3rd, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    I don’t know which is worse, reading some moron complain about umpiring 50 times a day or reading some moron repeating the same crap about Cashman 50 times a day.

    What do you guys think?

  357. Doreen February 3rd, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    Upstate -

    “neuf” is nine in French.

  358. UpState February 3rd, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    Thank You, Doreen !

    One Hundred are Nine. (?)

    I now can recognize the ‘handle’…..I just don’t ‘get it’ .

  359. beedogs February 3rd, 2011 at 11:10 pm

    Get ready for a .500 ballclub in 2011.

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