Fairly quiet day in Tampa
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 10, 2011 
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My friends in Tampa were reporting gray skies this morning. Although it cleared up after a while, it seems there wasn’t much going on down there today. Things will probably stay relatively quiet until Monday, when camp actually opens and Joe Girardi addresses the media.
I know Bryan Hoch and Marc Carig are flying into Tampa this afternoon. I’m getting into town tomorrow. A few more beat writers are making the trip this weekend. It’s getting close, folks.
• Russell Martin did some drills that had him squatting for a second straight day. That’s good news for his knee and hip.
• Larry Rothschild was in the mix and said he feels good about A.J. Burnett after going to Burnett’s house this winter. He said Burnett’s head is in a good place.
• Rothschild also compared the Yankees current bullpen to the Cincinnati bullpen of the early 90s. That’s the Nasty Boys group, and that’s a rock solid reference. Rothschild was their bullpen coach.
• Derek Jeter was at the complex for a fourth straight day.
• Also back in the mix: Both Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain.
Rothschild also compared the Yankees current bullpen to the Cincinnati bullpen of the early 90s. That’s the Nasty Boys group, and that’s a rock solid reference. Rothschild was their bullpen coach
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It would be nice to have that sort of dominance in the pen again.
I personally feel this is the strongest the Yankee pen has been since 96.
“but if you do expand to look at his career his BABiP at home is .289; on the road it’s .343 – so I guess the question is whether or not you can have a 5 year fluke?”
I made that same argument for Cano not hitting with RISP, and it turned out to be a 5 year fluke. So such things can happen.
And don’t forget Liriano called the HomerDome home too, which was a very different park, one where fly balls bounced off the walls regularly.
Wave Your Hat February 10th, 2011 at 1:39 pm
And don’t forget Liriano called the HomerDome home too, which was a very different park, one where fly balls bounced off the walls regularly.
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Wouldn’t that negatively impact his home performance?
I’m not interested at all in Liriano because if the Twins are making him available, then something is wrong. They don’t have a great rotation and they lack power pitchers, which is one of the reasons they continue to fail in the post-season. Why on earth would the Twins deal him? Injury concerns? Let the Twins deal with that. Even if I were interested, Banuelos is an absolute no go.
I think the depth of the bullpen, at least in the early going (provided everybody stays healthy of course) buys some time for the Yankees in their quest to add another starter.
You can’t spend the entire season with your starters giving you short outings.
In the early going though, a deep and effective bullpen can help you win a lot of games as you sort out rotation issues.
WCYF,
Are you saying CC Sabathia is a fool?
He saw the way Jeter was treated.
I would maybe give up Brackman if I were interested, but no way Betances or Banuelos
As to CC, I’d be shocked if he opted out; I just don’t think he’s going to.
Chad, hopefully, you can put the “Joba is a fat slob” talk to rest with pix and words tomorrow.
“Wouldn’t that negatively impact his home performance?”
Yes, theoretically, if you are correct about balls off walls being a major factor, but it evidently didn’t, which was my point.
And Cano is a great example close to home of a 5 year fluke. Statheadds don’t believe RISP-based stats have predictive value, and despite a 5 year poor-RISP run by Cano it turns out they were right, at least in his case.
Wave Your Hat February 10th, 2011 at 1:39 pm
And don’t forget Liriano called the HomerDome home too, which was a very different park, one where fly balls bounced off the walls regularly.
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Again – while his stats at Metrodome are moot – when you do include them in the conversation he has been much better through his career at home than on the road.
I don’t know how you explain that – Metrodome was a hitter’s park, Target is a pitcher’s park. Maybe you’re right, maybe it is a fluke. Maybe he just can’t get a comfortable night’s sleep in a hotel room…point is that no one can say with certainty one way or the other.
To say the reason his numbers on the road were worse than at home is simply because of a fluke that had his BABIP spike on the road is a guess. Nothing more than that.
I’m not saying he’s a bad pitcher, I’m not saying that you’re wrong – that it’s not just some quirky fluke. All I’m saying are two things:
1. His performance away from home is worse than his performance at home
2. I don’t consider him an elite pitcher and don’t think that Cashman would be part with more to get him than he was willing to part with to get Lee or Grienke or even Haren.
I wonder what Twins would do if Texas offered Michael Young and Alexi Ogando or Derek Holland for Liriano.
The Twins aren’t eating that contract and judging by the Colorado non-trade, neither is anybody else.
LGY February 10th, 2011 at 1:46 pm
WCYF, Are you saying CC Sabathia is a fool? He saw the way Jeter was treated.
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Oh did you say he was a fool? I didn’t. Why do you think that?
I think CC prides himself on being a role model and stand up guy. If he said he will not opt out, I think it will be important to him to keep his word. I don’t think he will opt out.
FrankiePiliere Frankie Piliere
Farm system rankings due out at 2 PM. I thought this yr was (at least by prospect standards) a more clear cut one on who has the top systems
BoJo February 10th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
I wonder what Twins would do if Texas offered Michael Young and Alexi Ogando or Derek Holland for Liriano.
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I can’t see the Twins taking on the contract of Young.
I’d like to avoid the “elite” pitcher argument because I think it is a definitional argument, not a substantive one really.
If by elite you mean a top talent pitcher who has established himself over a number of years, Liriano isn’t elite and I don’t think anyone would argue.
If by elite you mean a highly regarded pitcher who was one of the ten best pitchers in the major leagues last year, then Liriano clearly is elite.
I think in 2011 he will be one of the best pitchers in the majors again, and I’ll avoid categorizing that as elite or not.
I do think he’d be a major, major plus in pinstripes in 2011.
GB7 and YS Guy–
Granted Texas would have to throw in money against Young’s contract, but Ogando is an up and coming reliever or Holland has good upset as a LH SP. Young gives them versatility and better offense than they usually get from infielders.
Chip–
Money is a factor that can be dealt with…the question is would the talent swap interest both teams?
Well, I doubt the Twins will do anything about Liriano now, they’re a contender and he could always be moved later this year.
As for the Yankees, at this point it makes sense to me to see how everyone throws in the spring and go from there. That having been said, it sure wouldn’t surprise me if Cashman make a deal for a starter before the season starts, no question he’s looking around, he would be derelict in his job if he wasn’t.
I like the reference to the Reds Nasty Boys bullpen.
Does anybody remember the play vs the cubs back in 1991 when Dibble picked up a bunt down the 1st base line and pretty much threw a fastball at the feet of theCubs runner, instead of tossing the ball softly to Hal Morris at first base for the out???
The play was very strange and if someone can remember the backstory, please share here.
WC
Definitely a fool. Unless he opts out of course. I mean he saw the way Jeter was treated.
At least this is what I have been told about how these things work
i have to agree with betsy(did i really just say that? lol!) . i think the twins decided during his last injury that as soon as liriano came back and rebuilt trade value, they would move him before he gets hurt again.
that doesnt mean i wouldnt go after him but i wouldnt pay top dollar and i’d want a very expansive medical exam before i’d go there.
but the twins arent infallable and letting him go for fear of injury could greatly benefit someone else.
Wave Your Hat February 10th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
I’d like to avoid the “elite” pitcher argument because I think it is a definitional argument, not a substantive one really.
If by elite you mean a top talent pitcher who has established himself over a number of years, Liriano isn’t elite and I don’t think anyone would argue.
If by elite you mean a highly regarded pitcher who was one of the ten best pitchers in the major leagues last year, then Liriano clearly is elite.
I think in 2011 he will be one of the best pitchers in the majors again, and I’ll avoid categorizing that as elite or not.
I do think he’d be a major, major plus in pinstripes in 2011.
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Alright – allow me to rephrase:
While I agree that Liriano is a good pitcher and would likely improve the Yankee rotation; will the Yankees offer for Liriano a package equal or greater to what they felt comfortable offering for Lee, Haren or Greinke? No I don’t believe they will.
I do not believe that he has achieved a level of success that would dictate a team give up that kind of talent for him. And I certainly do not believe that Brian Cashman, who is very conservative when it comes to offering up elite talent in trades, would deal one of his two top pitching prospects for a pitcher with only a limited track record of success and a significant injury history.
As I said, I believe he would part with Nunez, Romine, one of the group of Phelps, Warren, Nova, Noesi, either Joba or Robertson, and possibly Andrew Brackman.
Montero, Betances, Baneulos? I find it highly unlikely.
if i saw how jeter was ‘treated’ i’d opt out, too, hoping they’d way overpay me too.
I would be shocked if Sabathia doesn’t opt out. He will undoubtedly get more guaranteed years with a new contract. In my opinion, the only reason CC wouldn’t opt out is if the Yankees extend him or his shoulder blows up this season.
I wouldn’t hold it against him either, why shouldn’t he try to get the most money possible?
The Yankees have Liriano-type talent in their system already. No need to trade for him.
I would consider stopgap moves like Ohlendorf, though he did have a poor season last year, but he wouldn’t cost much in talent back. Problem is he’d be surpassed as early as late this season or next season by upcoming talent, and most likely be traded again.
LGY February 10th, 2011 at 2:01 pm
WC – Definitely a fool. Unless he opts out of course. I mean he saw the way Jeter was treated. At least this is what I have been told about how these things work
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OK, you’re on record thinking Sabathia is a fool. Anything else profound to contribute?
Jesus…..anybody else you want to give up? I mean, only 5 top line players? Thank God they don’t let you go on tours of the Yankee front offices for fear of contaminating them.
Jeter was “treated” great!
He got the highest salary of any shortstop in baseball despite being at an advanced age and coming off a career worst season.
Poor guy
Ys guy, lol – agreed about Jeter.
With CC it wouldn’t be a case of being overpaid if he opted out.
Consider that he is still younger and healthier than Cliff Lee was this past year when Lee was the hottest pitcher on the market.
In addition to the Yankees teams that would be in the market for Sabathia would be:
Texas
CWS
Cubs
LAA
NYM
and possibly the Phillies who will be parting with Roy Oswalt after this season.
Even if he didn’t get a raise from his current AAV – he could at least expect to get the same AAV on another 6 year contract – basically a 2 year extention from his current deal.
As far as CC opting out, I think it will be interesting to watch the parallel seasons of CC and Lee this season. I never felt Lee was worth more AAV than CC, and his $25MM/year deal from Philly may drive CC for a ‘complementary’ contract.
After all, it’s just business.
Rangers lock up Hamilton for 2 years $24M
Doreen
Waiting for Tiguan would be a good name for a fantasy team (or a band).
Rangers got a steal.
CC not opting out is basically saying “no thanks” to $50 million. CC is a good guy but who wouldn’t want another $50 mil?
pat -
Yes, it would! LOL
GreenBeret7 February 10th, 2011 at 2:13 pm
Jesus…..anybody else you want to give up? I mean, only 5 top line players? Thank God they don’t let you go on tours of the Yankee front offices for fear of contaminating them.
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Romine is blocked by Montero and Martin ahead of him and not as talented as the guys coming up behind him
Nunez is blocked by 2 hall of famers and an MVP candidate at the ML level – essentially his only role is as a utility infielder – he has more value as trade bait than as a utility infielder.
Joba and Robertson are middle relievers, parting with one of them is not a hardship.
If I have to part with one of the group of Nova, Noesi, Warren or Phelps that’s not a huge deal since they’re all pretty equal right now and not all of them can crack the major league squad anyway
Brackman’s the stud in the deal – the player with the best upside of the bunch – but still not as good as Betances, Banuelos or Montero.
i know someone is going to spin this into jeter hatred, so before we go there, i LOVE derek jeter. he is, however earning much more than his actual baseball value.
if he had to go through a little unpleasantness to get that, so be it. if he’s insulted, then that’s right out of the joe torre book of insults.
We’ll see – I think CC is a man of his word. Just because we assume he’d be crazy not to opt out doesn’t mean he will – what other players do or what we would do won’t come into play for CC – IMO (but, we’ll have to wait and see). I never form an opinion as to what a player will or will not do based on what other players have done……..because every player is an individual and what’s right for others may not be right for him.
Nunez, Joba or Robertson, one of Nova/Noesi/Warren/Phelps and Brackman for Liriano? It’s a steep price but I’d do that deal.
does minny get the minor league complex along with all of our minor leaguers in that deal?
Nobody is willing to see Pena playing for extended periods of time. Liriano is not worth 5 top line players, regardless of your “points”.
Ys Guy,
I think Jeter is too professional to be insulted. He knows the business. I’m sure he’s happy with what he got and is ready to play.
5 top players is a hell of a price to pay for keeping your fingers crossed for two years. Two years and he’s gone.
Not to be naive or anything, because I fully understand that one of the reasons a player would opt out is if he thinks he can make more money in a current market.
However, it was my belief that CC’s desire for an opt out clause had more to do with his comfort level in New York (or elsewhere); if he or his family weren’t happy, they would have the opportunity to improve their situation.
He has said, and it seems true, that he and his family are settled in and happy in NY, and that he had no intention of exercising the opt out clause.
Of course anything can happen, but I tend to believe this guy.
Of course, I’m the one that had to be talked off the ledge when the Mitchell report came out, and again when ARod was “outed” as a steroid user. So, there’s that.
GreenBeret7 February 10th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Nobody is willing to see Pena playing for extended periods of time. Liriano is not worth 5 top line players, regardless of your “points”.
——————–
Utility infielders are easier to find than good starting pitchers.
And I disagree that those five all qualify as “top of the line” but I know you’re feelings on Yankee prospects and that arguing with you on the point is futile.
GB7,
The players Chip is talking about are indeed really good players and it would be tough to lose them all but are any of them other than Brackman going to be an all-star down the road?
Nunez looks like a fringe starter, probably a utility guy when all is said and done.
Joba and Robertson will one day be top of the line 8th inning guys or even closers (maybe that day is soon).
The list of pitchers Chip mentions are all extremely good but I don’t see “ace” potential in any of them.
Brackman is still pretty raw, has an injury past BUT has the potential to be an ace or a lockdown closer.
Those are 4 really good pieces but what you get in return is a guy that was one of the most valuable pitchers in the bigs last year. He’s a lefty which helps in Yankee stadium, he’s young, cheap, has great stuff. There are questionmarks but I think the package Chip suggests is pretty fair for both sides.
GreenBeret7 February 10th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
5 top players is a hell of a price to pay for keeping your fingers crossed for two years. Two years and he’s gone.
————-
Come on – now you’re grasping at straws and thin straws at that.
You don’t think the Yankees would be able to re-sign him if they wanted to?
“Larry Rothschild was in the mix and said he feels good about A.J. Burnett after going to Burnett’s house this winter. He said Burnett’s head is in a good place.”
The big question here is whether Larry thinks ones a$$ is a good place for ones head…..if we know the answer to that, we can better understand what Larry means.
Oh wait that deal includes Romine? Ok nevermind I wouldn’t do that haha…
Take Romine out and now we’re talking
I just became a Mark Buehrle fan.
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.co.....8;c_id=cws
And this on Vick from his Twitter account:
“He had a great year and a great comeback, but there were times where we watched the game and I know it’s bad to say, but there were times where we hope he gets hurt”.
“Patrick February 10th, 2011 at 2:27 pm
GB7,
The players Chip is talking about are indeed really good players and it would be tough to lose them all but are any of them other than Brackman going to be an all-star down the road?”
Is Brackman?
Chip February 10th, 2011 at 2:27 pm
GreenBeret7 February 10th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
5 top players is a hell of a price to pay for keeping your fingers crossed for two years. Two years and he’s gone.
————-
Come on – now you’re grasping at straws and thin straws at that.
You don’t think the Yankees would be able to re-sign him if they wanted to?
———————————————————————————————————————-
Sure they can. Just like they signed Lee.
Is Brackman?
—
Probably not but he has the ability to be. The rest of those players most likely do not.
Can we get back to the game please?
Who here knows when the first exhibition game will be televised????
I expect the yankees would not want to trade Nunez if possible. They have no high level replacement anywhere in the upper minors in the event of injury or decline to Jeter.
The Twins did have an interest in Adams last year. Perhpas, they would again if he can demonstrate he is over his injury.
If CC actually said the words ” Im not opting out” then I tend to believe him. He just seems like a guy that wouldn’t say that unless he meant it…..lot of ways to sidestep that question if you don’t want to make a concrete statement.
The Yanks will take care of him if he’s still pitching well and wants to stay after his current deal…
# LGY February 10th, 2011 at 1:46 pm
WCYF,
Are you saying CC Sabathia is a fool?
He saw the way Jeter was treated.
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Exactly, seeing how overpaid Jeter was will certainly push him towards opting out knowing he can come back and get even more.
nice twitter attitude, i don’t know the guy and maybe he was being sarcastic to sam.. But he seems like a big time Douche….
GreenBeret7 February 10th, 2011 at 2:29 pm
Chip February 10th, 2011 at 2:27 pm
GreenBeret7 February 10th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
5 top players is a hell of a price to pay for keeping your fingers crossed for two years. Two years and he’s gone.
————-
Come on – now you’re grasping at straws and thin straws at that.
You don’t think the Yankees would be able to re-sign him if they wanted to?
———————————————————————————————————————-
Sure they can. Just like they signed Lee.
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So because they missed out on the one free agent they really wanted for the first time since Greg Maddux back in the 90s the Yankees aren’t going to be able to sign any free agents ever again?
I get how you feel about Yankee prospects but the sheer lunacy of this point only detracts from what’s otherwise a reasonable argument.
Patrick February 10th, 2011 at 2:27 pm
GB7,
The players Chip is talking about are indeed really good players and it would be tough to lose them all but are any of them other than Brackman going to be an all-star down the road?
Nunez looks like a fringe starter, probably a utility guy when all is said and done.
Joba and Robertson will one day be top of the line 8th inning guys or even closers (maybe that day is soon).
The list of pitchers Chip mentions are all extremely good but I don’t see “ace” potential in any of them.
Brackman is still pretty raw, has an injury past BUT has the potential to be an ace or a lockdown closer.
Those are 4 really good pieces but what you get in return is a guy that was one of the most valuable pitchers in the bigs last year. He’s a lefty which helps in Yankee stadium, he’s young, cheap, has great stuff. There are questionmarks but I think the package Chip suggests is pretty fair for both sides.
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he also added Romine. That’s way too much for hoping for an effective and healthy Liriano that you then have to hope you can re-sign if he’s worth it. Three players is what he’s worth and that doesn’t include Brackman and Nunez. Nunez is the only shortstop with the talent to fill shortstop long term and Brackman, I believe ends up closing within 3 years for NYYs.
im sure there’s a mental component to aj’s problems (did someone say ‘head-case’?) but i saw him constantly missing with his fastball down and in to the LH batters box. once that started happening, he’s search around and not get it back.
to me, that’s a mechanical problem. now getting him out of that groove might be mental, but the start of the problem is mechanical, imo
(disclainer i a not a pitching coach, nor have i played on one tv.)
I can’t see the Yankees making any moves of significance this close to the start of ST. They’ll sort out what they have and see what develops and if necessary do a late March deal depending on needs.
Cashman will likely get the last word if Texas or any other team has thoughts of getting Liriano, for example. Boston can’t offer any players attractive enough to upgrade what they’ve done so they can’t be considered as teams in the hunt.
Nick Swisher
$10.25 million club option for 2012
Swisher’s option was more in question after 2009 than it is today.
—
2009 OPS: .869
2010 OPS: .870
I don’t see how 2010 proved anything over 2009, other than another year to establish consistency.
No, Buerhle wasn’t being sarcastic. I couldn’t agree with him more, he had the guts to say what so many are thinking.
he also added Romine. That’s way too much for hoping for an effective and healthy Liriano that you then have to hope you can re-sign if he’s worth it. Three players is what he’s worth and that doesn’t include Brackman and Nunez. Nunez is the only shortstop with the talent to fill shortstop long term and Brackman, I believe ends up closing within 3 years for NYYs.
—
Yeah I didn’t notice that he put Romine in there too. Definitely too much in that case.
I still disagree with you though, I would absolutely put Nunez and Brackman in a deal for Liriano.
However, it was my belief that CC’s desire for an opt out clause had more to do with his comfort level in New York (or elsewhere); if he or his family weren’t happy, they would have the opportunity to improve their situation.
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This is true and SJ correctly said that the opt-out was a requirement no matter what team he signed with in case he found himself in another Cleveland Indian type situation.
And I wouldn’t really hold it against him if he changed his mind.
If the Yanks had an opportunity to save tens of millions of dollars by opting out of a contract belonging to an ineffective player, would we hold it against them?
There is nothing cute about one professional athlete wishing injury on another professional athlete.
Courts and higher powers handle punishment not pitchers from Chicago.
No, Buerhle wasn’t being sarcastic. I couldn’t agree with him more, he had the guts to say what so many are thinking.
—
It’s a pretty sick thing to wish injury on someone.
Vick did some bad things but he also did his time and paid his debt to society.
can’t.wait.for.real.baseball.
“Warning Track Power February 10th, 2011 at 2:31 pm
Can we get back to the game please?”
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acid flashback? rip van winkle effect? or did you just crawl out from under a rock thinking it was july?
Just catching up as today is Pool Service day…….Man it the price is right Loriano has to be worth a few calls to Twins GM Smith……Yanks starter depth is my greatest concern …….
It would be kind of funny if next Winter CC leaves and says “I’m not “opting out”…I’ve just decided not to “extend my stay” ”
:16 [Comment From Jay CT] What is Banuelos’s ceiling, and what ML pitcher could you compare him to? 2:19
Frankie Piliere -You know I get this question a lot. I use to not agree with the Johan Santana stuff but it’s probably the most accurate one if you have to pick a current big leaguer. He’s similar in size, velocity, and command to the Santana of a few years ago. The changeup is not as unhittable as Santana’s and he isn’t the pure strikeout machine Santana was. But there’s definitely some comparable aspects. I think Banuelos is a number one in the making. Not to say I told you so but I screamed about him last year at this time. People like to just talk about the new velocity but A. his velocity didn’t spike as much as people say. He went from 90-92, 93 to 92-95. and B. his game goes far beyond just raw stuff.
I’d be reluctant to include Nunez, but Liriano is really good and most guys who come back from Tommy John surgery have done pretty well healthwise.
Have no idea if there’s a particular position of weakness for the Twins’ organization but I’d be willing to do Brackman and Romine with Joba or Robertson. Might also include a PHelps/Warren level arm.
i’m thinking it would be a great idea if cc announced that he was opting out during game 7 of the WS.
cant remember where the idea came from.
whadya think?
[Comment From T-Dubs] Assuming both had perfect health, is Betances a better prospect than Banuelos? 2:28
Frankie Piliere -Lots of Yankee questions. That’s difficult. I might be in the minority but I still think I take Banuelos. I absolutely love Betances’ stuff but the more bust proof guys are the guys with a great feel for pitching and that’s definitely Banuelos.
Patrick February 10th, 2011 at 2:39 pm
It’s a pretty sick thing to wish injury on someone. Vick did some bad things but he also did his time and paid his debt to society.
***********
Not in my opinion and I suspect in the opinion of millions of dog lovers everywhere. What was sick was what Vick did and he didn’t come close to paying his debt to IMO no matter what the legal system outcome. Not to mention those dogs, especially the ones that lived and are still suffering.
Putting Romine in that trade wasn’t the issue. It’d the quality and quantity of the other names. The Twins didn’t ask that much for santana and they got considerably less. Liriano is /was not Santana.
[Comment From Zak] Adam Warren is one of my personal favorite from the Yankees farm system, seems like he doesn’t get too much love as he’s always grouped with Phelps, DJ Mitchell, etc as a backend of the rotation starter. I’m not saying he’s front line, but isn’t he at least worthy of a middle of the rotation type? He’s got good stuff! 2:49
Frankie Piliere -I like Warren better than the two others you mentioned. You’re right that he probably doesn’t get quite enough love. He’s not a finesse guy. He runs up into the mid 90s at times and relies on that fastball. But his secondary stuff continues to improve.
Pat M. – so today was pool service day?
That’s right, Pat, rub it in…..
Hope you don’t have a sore neck from looking around…..
[Comment From Guest] What do you say to people who accuse you of a pro-Yankee bias? 3:19
Frankie Piliere -I’ve heard every accusation of bias in either direction there is. pro-Yankees, anti-yankees. anti-cubs, anti-braves, pro-marlins. And I’m not really kidding. If pro-Yankee bias means giving a team credit that has one of the best farm systems in baseball right now…then sure that’s me. The Yankees end up getting discussed a lot also because quite frankly their fans send me 100 times more questions than anyone.
No to Chip’s trade idea.Nunez is a MI, & SS to boot,& is the only viable Jeter replacement when the day comes.We don’t want to end up like Boston with their miserable string of have-nots at the position (heeheehee).Brackman??I don’t think so.ABrack could close (agree with GB7) and stud it out there,but I also can see that evolving change taking him to a rotation spot.Liriano is awesome,though,& if he stays healthy,he’s going to have a great yr.But too much uncertainty surrounding his health to blow up future SS & a great young arm whose already knockin at the door.
Not in my opinion and I suspect in the opinion of millions of dog lovers everywhere. What was sick was what Vick did and he didn’t come close to paying his debt to IMO no matter what the legal system outcome. Not to mention those dogs, especially the ones that lived and are still suffering.
—
You are sinking to Vick’s level by wishing him injury….
Nunez is extremely overrated by Yankee fans… We are talking about a future utility infielder, he’s not a great prospect.
86w183 February 10th, 2011 at 2:44 pm
I’d be reluctant to include Nunez, but Liriano is really good and most guys who come back from Tommy John surgery have done pretty well healthwise.
+++++++++++++++
And there also many examples (e.g., Chrisian Garcia) of pitchers blowing out hteir elbows again after their 1st TJ surgery. Since Santana still has a “violent” delviery and throws sliders about 35% of time, I would walk away from any deal that included a top 10 prospect.
i dont care that buhrle said what alot of ppl were thinking. there is no concessus on whether vick’s sentence was sufficient. legally we dont value animals at much more then thier actual dollar value, but many place a much higher value on them.
i love dogs, but i say that the man paid his debt as the law set out at the time. i dont like him, i will never root for him, but i wont wish an injury on him or anyone else.
still i can see the emotion on the other side and i dont blame people who dont think he has paid his debt.
AnthonyMcCarron Rothschild has a home in Tampa about 12 min. from Yankee complex. He’s been going there daily for 1 month, watching their young pitchers
AnthonyMcCarron Rothschild on Joba: ‘Look the stuff is there. From what he?s telling me, his arm feels good and you can see that there is quickness to it’
AnthonyMcCarron One of the things Yanks are trying to do to fix AJ Burnett is get him ‘back on the attack,’ Rothschild sez…(more)
AnthonyMcCarron Rothschild continued: “Confidence will come from that and the demeanor will be a little different”
AnthonyMcCarron Rothschild didn’t want to name the youngsters who’ve impressed him, but noted: ‘Nova is certainly a young kid with good enough stuff’
The trouble with the plastic tree huggers is that they believe that animals are held above humans. They’re no better than clinic bombers. I don’t advocate torturing animals any more than humans, but, the courts have ruled that Vick has paid for his crimes. He’s still a jerk and a dirtball, but, he’s paid heavy for being that.
Doc Joe from Long Island…..Pretty in Pink is all I’m going to say……BoJo, Loriano was more than good last season…I agree with the sliders though, he has to get off that love affair
Nunez could prolly be a starter one day, but that won’t stop me from including him in a trade. You can get yourself a starting SS on the FA at a reasonable cost. In so many words, Losing Nunez is not a big deal to me. As far as RS ss situation, they did okay LY. I suspect they will be okay again with scutaro and lowrie. btw, Jete and Scutaro were pretty much a wash LY.
Wave,
I agree Liriano would, barring injury, be a major addition and improvement. I do wonder why the Twins seem willing to move him and whether they know things we do not. I presume a good physical and testing could spot any cause for physical concern.
I would keep Montero and Banuelos, but be willing to move some combination of other prospects. I would give Betances or Brackman, since they are older with their own injury history, plus one more second tier pitcher(Warren, Phelps etc.) and a middle infielder of the Twins choosing.
Pat M.
Two words
Photobucket photos
Cashmoney February 10th, 2011 at 3:00 pm
Nunez could prolly be a starter one day, but that won’t stop me from including him in a trade. You can get yourself a starting SS on the FA at a reasonable cost. In so many words, Losing Nunez is not a big deal to me. As far as RS ss situation, they did okay LY. I suspect they will be okay again with scutaro and lowrie. btw, Jete and Scutaro were pretty much a wash LY.
———————————————————————————————————————-
How often do you see FA shortstops in the middle of the season? Trading for one when you need one is going to cost you a top MILB player for a below average player.
Pat M. February 10th, 2011 at 3:00 pm
Doc Joe from Long Island…..Pretty in Pink is all I’m going to say……BoJo, Loriano was more than good last season…I agree with the sliders though, he has to get off that love affair
++++++++++++++++
Liriano was the base of my fantasy league drafting strategy last year. I predicted a huge improvement and saw it…However, since he was on my team, I watched him several times, and I don’t think he will stop using that slider. I love the guy but suspect another stint on DL with arm troubles.
GreenBeret7 February 10th, 2011 at 2:56 pm
The trouble with the plastic tree huggers is that they believe that animals are held above humans. They’re no better than clinic bombers. I don’t advocate torturing animals any more than humans, but, the courts have ruled that Vick has paid for his crimes. He’s still a jerk and a dirtball, but, he’s paid heavy for being that.
***************
Plastic tree huggers? Clinic bombers? Gee, you’re a right-wing nut what a surprise.
GreenBeret7 February 10th, 2011 at 2:47 pm
Putting Romine in that trade wasn’t the issue. It’d the quality and quantity of the other names. The Twins didn’t ask that much for santana and they got considerably less. Liriano is /was not Santana.
——————
While it’s true that Liriano is certainly not Johan Santana a team that trades for Liriano will not have to sign him to a 6 year $137 million contract like the Mets did with Santana.
That was the biggest issue for the Twins trying to get equal value for Santana – teams didn’t want to give up top prospects and sign Santana to a huge contract.
Liriano’s no Grienke – but I think the package Milwaukee parted with for him is a far better indication of what the Twins could get for Liriano given his contract status.
GB……If you’re still here, how come Richie Allen isn’t in the HOF ??? He was the most similar ballplayer to Mantle ( other than the switch hitting ) that I’ve ever seen…..
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2011/0.....um=twitter
Read it and weep, haters.
For a guy that gets on his soapbox about namecalling on here, you sure do your fair share of it.
fake plastic trees?
bojo, do you remember what round you picked him up in?
The Yankees have consistently been ranked in the top 10 (and top 5) by various publications. Remarkable job by the front office and coaches
I wouldn’t blame CC for opting out, he has way more leverage than the Yankees
Pat, Richie Allen was a masher, to be sure. Personally, though, I’d put Tony Oliva in the HOF before Allen. Allen’s attitude and defensive abilities stunk. His peak seasons didn’t last long. He had Mantle like power, but, that’s where I draw the line. Closer to Lee May or Tony Perez type to me.
I agree that Vick paid his debt to society. But when he got injured earlier this season, someone joked that maybe he should be “put down as he was no longer able to compete for his owner” and I chuckled a bit.
well, GB, I guess it depends what you think Nunez can do offensively this season. I suspect if NYY does suffer the misfortune of Jete being out of majority of season this season then R.Pena would be the first to be call up while Cashman will look for a david eckstein or cabrera type to fill the gap.
All of this is in the context of potentially packaging him in a liriano deal. you can think of as sacrificing a good back up spare tire for a good piston your engine (liriano). I am not giving Nunez away…
Yeah that’s pretty funny Bronx Jeers.
Ys Guy February 10th, 2011 at 3:11 pm
bojo, do you remember what round you picked him up in?
++++++++++++++
10th I think…AL only league…10 players
Tony Oliva was one of the first baseball heroes I followed when I was growing up. A great hitter, on a team known for really good hitters.
You’re right, GB, he should be in the Hall.
bojo, nice pick! are you in the lohud league, i’ll have to be watching you. one more question before someone blows a fit about fantasy baseball chat….where do you rate reyes this season? (assuming he’s ready to go opening day)
i’m thinking somewhere in the 35-45 pick range.
Pat N., one other thing about Richie Allen. He had all of the talent to be an historic baseball great and he blew it. He reminds me of some of the same issues that Pepitone in the day and now BJ Upton is doing.
Ys Guy February 10th, 2011 at 3:11 pm
bojo, do you remember what round you picked him up in?
++++++++++++++++++++++
I also had good luck with my picks of Josh Hamilton, Nick Swisher, Brett Gardner, Paul Konerko, Jose Bautista, Gio Gonzales, Phil Hughes, Natali Feliz, Nelson Cruz, Kevin Youklis, Yuniesky Betancourt. Was doing great until injuries in SP forced me to make some trades…team tanked in play-offs.
GB……I do remember him hitting a home run in the spring of 73 in Fort Lauderdale that hasn’t come down yet…….He had incredible talent but he couldn’t handle the crap that was the social issues of the times…….
YS Guy–
I am not playing this year as it took too much time and energy (watching all the games).
Joe from Long Island February 10th, 2011 at 3:19 pm
Tony Oliva was one of the first baseball heroes I followed when I was growing up. A great hitter, on a team known for really good hitters.
You’re right, GB, he should be in the Hall.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Joe, that was an amazing bat. Cano has a lot of that same hitting quality. Cano’s career closely mirrors the starts of Clemente and Oliva. If they can reach the baseball, they’re going to rip it hard and far.
Even with the new Target Field and better revenue streams, the Twins are and will continue to be a cost conscious team. Their present payroll barely exceeds $100M.
They’re balking at a 3-year extension for Liriano thinking that Scott Baker, Nick Blackburn, Brian Duensing, Kevin Slowey, and Carl Pavano can make up their starting rotation as their own young arms develop in the farm system.
Re: Reyes…I don’t watch NL teams much, and only know Reyes by reputation and stats.
If you are playing a total ML league, how many teams are in it? I’ll try to give you an idea based on that.
“…. alex rodriguez, jorge posada, brett gardener, melky cabrera at the u today working out… #Yankees
9 minutes ago via Mobile Web”
Pat M: Here’s a good take on Allen.
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB112249995911597879,00.html
Pat M. February 10th, 2011 at 3:22 pm
GB……I do remember him hitting a home run in the spring of 73 in Fort Lauderdale that hasn’t come down yet…….He had incredible talent but he couldn’t handle the crap that was the social issues of the times…….
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I was at a game in Chicago, against the Yankees not long after I got home from a tour and saw him hit a bomb off of the exploding score board. Had to be 500 feet. Like Mantle, he wasn’t that big…not Frank Howard/Di ck Stuart big…but, so much stronger. He wasted a lot of anger. What he went through was nothing compared to what J & F Robinson, Mays, Aaron and others went through. He made a lot of his own “social problems”.
hardwired7 February 10th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
fake plastic trees?
++++++++++++++++++
Obviously a Radiohead fan.
pat February 10th, 2011 at 3:26 pm
“…. alex rodriguez, jorge posada, brett gardener, melky cabrera at the u today working out… #Yankees
9 minutes ago via Mobile Web
____________________
Nice to see Melky shun the Royals and train with the team of his choice.
K. Long on Alex Rodriguez courtesy of Wallace Mathews:
“I was pleasantly surprised at what I saw,” Long said. “I saw his body able to do things it wasn’t able to do for the past three years. The flexibility in his lower half, his hips, his core, seemed to be back. We’ve had to limit his routine and his swings ever since the hip surgery quite a bit, but he was able to take more swings than he had been.”
“I really think he can have a monster season compared to last year.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-.....id=6105916
Richie Allen was one of my favorite players to watch while growing up. Amazing talent as a young player. But GB7 is right…too much anger and drama. I for one think he should be in HOF.
BoJo says:
February 10, 2011 at 3:29 pm
hardwired7 February 10th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
fake plastic trees?
++++++++++++++++++
Obviously a Radiohead fan.
=========================
You creep.
“# pat February 10th, 2011 at 3:26 pm
“…. alex rodriguez, jorge posada, brett gardener, melky cabrera at the u today working out… #Yankees
9 minutes ago via Mobile Web”
”
link? The U of Miami right?
The Twins payroll is pushing 118 million this year. Hardly small.
The days of them having a payroll under 100-110 million are over.
They not only have the money, they have to back up Joe Mauer’s new deal by being competitive each year.
“I saw his body able to do things it wasn’t able to do for the past three years. The flexibility in his lower half, his hips, his core, seemed to be back. We’ve had to limit his routine and his swings ever since the hip surgery quite a bit, but he was able to take more swings than he had been.”
That’s a quote from Long or Diaz?
pat February 10th, 2011 at 3:26 pm
??. alex rodriguez, jorge posada, brett gardener, melky cabrera at the u today working out? #Yankees
9 minutes ago via Mobile Web?
******************************
Look at Melkman, hanging with the boys.
Not to mention the massive bill in keeping Morneau healthy.
bojo, good picks! i have always maintained that most leagues are won at the draft table, and specifically in the last 10-12 rounds.
i believe the lohud league is all mlb. reyes is currently ranked #24 on mock draft central.
Asd February 10th, 2011 at 3:32 pm
BoJo says:
February 10, 2011 at 3:29 pm
hardwired7 February 10th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
fake plastic trees?
++++++++++++++++++
Obviously a Radiohead fan.
=========================
You creep.
+++++++++++++
Your words don’t hurt…”Nothing Touches Me”
Ys Guy–
I really can’t see playing an all mlb league if you are a Yankee fan. I just care about the AL…and don’t want to have to follow the NL teams as well (had enough games to watch!)
And the pitching discrepancies between the leagues are a pain.
“The U of Miami right?”
Yes.
#24–
I’d pass. too much injury potential..plus I just don’t like Mets players in Citifield.
the only problem with the difference between leagues in fantasy baseball is when someone switches leagues. otherwise the #’s are the #’s.
i have done al only leagues but if there are alot of teams, you start getting down to who is the 19th best ss in the league or something like that. and if a key player gets traded to the other league, its like he died.
Of course, if one plays in an AL league, you are limited to at most 10 teams.
YS guy–
Yep…that interleague trading stuff is a pain.
Actually, the greatest league I ever played in was like 10 years ago. Their concept was that everyone could pick whomever they wanted and make 3 changes per week. Players values went up or down based on how many owned them. Thus, each player was like a stock share, and the team you assembled was like a stock portfolio.
Ratings were based on how much you increased the value of your team.
Unfortunately, that company sold out and I don’t think their game exxists anymore.
That was 2001–I remember because I picked a rookie named Albert Pujols and rode him all the way up as his value climbed. It was a lot of fun…
If anyone knows of that league, let me know.
off the topic
I have seldom met ppl who dislikes the music of Radioheads or Weezers. Kinda like Cusack of film and Mo of the baseball.
Just for comparison sake, here’s 2010 stats with 2011 salary:
Cliff Lee: 2.58 FIP, 3.23 xFIP, 7.1 WAR; $11MM
Roy Halladay: 3.01 FIP, 2.92 xFIP, 6.6 WAR; $20MM
Felix Hernandez: 3.04 FIP, 3.26 xFIP, 6.2 WAR; $11MM
Francisco Liriano: 2.66 FIP, 3.06 xFIP, 6.0 WAR; $4.3MM
Why the Twins would trade him I don’t know, but he’d be worth a lot.
i only had albert once, two years ago. i traded him at the asb for ryan howard and pedro sandoval and the two of them carried me to a 1st place finish.
everyone said i was crazy to make the trade but howard has been my go-to second half stud.
Cashmoney February 10th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
What do you think of these bands
Our Lady Peace
Third Eye Blind
Counting Crows
Goo Goo Dolls
Coldplay
Stereophonics
Iron and Wine
BoDeans
Dashboard Confidential
Bonnie Prince Billy
Boyce Avenue
I really suspect the Twins feel he is one pitch away from surgery…Is he worth the risk?
Only if they don’t have to give up a top 10 pick. TRHen start him until he blows out his arm (if and when). Who knows? The team acquiring him might get lucky.
# Wave Your Hat February 10th, 2011 at 3:51 pm
Just for comparison sake, here’s 2010 stats with 2011 salary:
Cliff Lee: 2.58 FIP, 3.23 xFIP, 7.1 WAR; $11MM
Roy Halladay: 3.01 FIP, 2.92 xFIP, 6.6 WAR; $20MM
Felix Hernandez: 3.04 FIP, 3.26 xFIP, 6.2 WAR; $11MM
Francisco Liriano: 2.66 FIP, 3.06 xFIP, 6.0 WAR; $4.3MM
Why the Twins would trade him I don’t know, but he’d be worth a lot.
——————————————
I agree why would they but for some reason it’s out there whether it’s true or not…..
how about Gardner in a package for him
You know–at that salary–we do have a one to one match we could swap for Liriano. A certain LHP at SWB from Japan.
Yep, he could be the kei to the deal.
“Thus, each player was like a stock share, and the team you assembled was like a stock portfolio.
Ratings were based on how much you increased the value of your team.”
So if I understand it correctly, having Pujols wouldn’t help you, and picking the 2010 Jeter would hurt, while the 2009-2010 Pavano would really help. Interesting.
Wave Your Hat February 10th, 2011 at 4:03 pm
It was VERY interesting…like playing the stock market. Best Fantasy League I ever played in.
IIRC, there may have also been a portion of points based on player performance, so that having Pujols would get you points for performance, but none in appreciation of value.
It was a balancing act between picking a good line-up and picking prospects who increased in value.
They were in existence for a year or three, and then were purchased for like $10M from someone.
GB7 -
For all the talk by Randy L. that the Twins are so great in developing pitchers, Frankie Piliere has only one Twins pither in the top 100 prospects, strange don’t you think.
Frankie Piliere ranks the Yankees with the 4th best minor league system, perhaps those that hate Cashman should just re-think that position, since it was mostly Cash that turned the minor league system around.
Any thoughts?
“For all the talk by Randy L. that the Twins are so great in developing pitchers, Frankie Piliere has only one Twins pither in the top 100 prospects, strange don’t you think.”
No, to Randy L. all that proves is how great the Twins are at developing pitchers.
couple of the bands I am not really familiar with (boyce avenue and bodean) I like most of the band on that list with exception to goo goo doll i find them a bit whiny. I felt that radioheads musically were at the frontier of the generation in terms molding their music into an art form.
what u think of…
Ramones
Beachboys
Gypsy Kings
Kinks
flaming lips
Semisonic
Gorillaz
NY dolls
Evan_P_Grant Hamilton: $7.25 mm in 2011, $13.75 mm in 2012. $3 mm signing bonus
BoJo February 10th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
Asd February 10th, 2011 at 3:32 pm
BoJo says:
February 10, 2011 at 3:29 pm
hardwired7 February 10th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
fake plastic trees?
++++++++++++++++++
Obviously a Radiohead fan.
=========================
You creep.
+++++++++++++
Your words don’t hurt…”Nothing Touches Me”
============================
Bojo, you have the best comeback. Really, Nothing compares 2 u. (Oh snap! That one came from left field)
SJJ44 -
Frankie Piliere had nice words about Tony. It appears he may be on a fast track to the ML.
Big Al……Tony Sanchez is going to be playing in Pittsburgh by mid 2012
Pat M. -
I watched Tony play some in the AFL, and to me he looked very polished already. After reading some posts by Tony, he sounds like a young man with his head on straight.
Cashmoney February 10th, 2011 at 4:13 pm
That is quite a wide range of taste there!
I love the Kinks…so-so on Beach Boys…so-so on Ramones…will have to check out the others. Thanks for sharing info…I may learn of a great new band as a result.
Asd February 10th, 2011 at 4:19 pm
Bojo, you have the best comeback. Really, Nothing compares 2 u. (Oh snap! That one came from left field)
+++++++++++++
How can you be sure?
Big Al…..The four or five guys I spoke with say that defensively Tony is just about there….The cerebral aspect of the position and his stick need to catch up and by season’s end it could right there….I’ve only seen Tony on film and he’s the real deal…….Wish I could buy some stock in him, like .05 % of his future earnings
BIG AL,
Frankie has always liked him, even when he was at BC.
Did he say something about him today, or are you referring to his scouting report on him?
Pat M. -
In order to buy stock in Tony, you’d need to be an agent. I have found following young talent through the minor leagues, and then seeing them make it the ML, is a very satisfying way of following baseball.
SJ44 -
I was referring to his remarks he made in the top 100 prospect rankings.