Sabathia and the opt out
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 14, 2011 
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CC Sabathia’s opt out clause was an inevitable topic this morning, especially considering there are a handful of national reporters in camp pretty easily linking Sabathia’s potential free agency to the Cliff Lee decision and the current Albert Pujols situation.
In the past, Sabathia has said he would not take the opt out clause. Today he was less certain.
“I said that, but I’m here to try to help the team win and I don’t want to talk about that all year,” he said. “This will probably be the last time I address it. I’m here.”
As for Brian Cashman, he said Sabathia opting out is “certainly a possibility,” but Cashman also said it’s a topic for another day. Sabathia seems happy in New York,, and he’s pitched well in New York, but it’s hard to know what might happen 10 months from now. Much more interesting was Cashman’s explanation of how and why the opt out clause came to be included in the contract in the first place.
“From the first moment free agency started, we put a significant offer on the table,” Cashman said. “It was taking a long time. He was certainly trying to see what all the options were out there. In theory he was looking to be somewhere close to the West Coast. At least, that’s what the belief was, somewhere West of the Mississippi. We were trying to convey all of the positives of East Coast baseball, especially what New York brings, and try to secure the player. I suggested, if this is not something you’re going to be happy with, you can opt out after three years.”
Why be the one to initiate the opt out, though?
“At that time, I know I felt that I was in a race,” Cashman said. “Mark Teixeira was hanging out there. Anaheim was pulling on Mark Teixeira, and I personally felt that Mark Teixeira was not going back to Anaheim, that he was going to wind up in Boston. And when Anaheim figured that out, they would take those dollars and start knocking on CC’s door. I needed to get CC done before that declared itself. I had to do everything because I felt like, if Anaheim showed up, I would be in trouble and I might not seize my player.
“I did everything in my power. I know it’s constantly written about, how the Yankees were bidding against themselves. I don’t believe, to this day, that I was. I had seen what the landscape was.”
Associated Press photo
Cool to get some insight on that.
definitly a bridge to cross on another day. like cc said, he’s here.
Let’s Go Yankees!
next hot topic – Soriano’s opt outs.
J. Alfred Prufrock February 14th, 2011 at 1:01 pm
West Coast Yankee Fan February 14th, 2011 at 12:52 pm
No one screwed Joba’s development up. He’s just not good enough; at least to this point. That’s the problem with stats,
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stats??I’m a season holder who has watched virtually every live pitch he has thrown at Yankee Stadium.I have lived through all the adjustments on his delivery:hesitation break,stiff front leg,trying to get him less armsy & more under,etc.I’ve seen him shine & I’ve seen him fail.Never has his talent whispered “not good enough.”With all due respect,your eyes may not be “good enough”to know what “good enough” is.his raw talent has always been “good enough”.
Ys Guy February 14th, 2011 at 1:02 pm
definitly a bridge to cross on another day.
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exactly. why worry about it now?
yankeefeminista February 14th, 2011 at 12:59 pm
Actually WCYF, In 34 situations when Joba entered a close game, he succeeded in 82% of them, which is pretty good compared to other RP’s and even elite closers.
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I try not to get hung up in stats too much, but since the shoulder injury Joba has allowed more hits than innings pitched and his ERA is over 4.5. That’s hardly stellar.
“next hot topic – Soriano’s opt outs”
Nah! Soriano will most likely have nowhere close to the leverage Sabathia stands to have.
“next hot topic – Soriano’s opt outs.”
//////
chamberlain and brackman will put that to bed this year. we’ll be happy to say goodbye and take back a draft pick for him when he goes.
I would like to opt out
One leg centipede tweets- CC will be Yankees no 1 starter in 11.
I don’t worry about the opt-out, I worry whether CC has fully recovered from his knee surgery. Going down the stretch last year he was not the top-notch CC that we saw earlier. If he can return to his prime form then let him do so and Cashman can deal with the opt out clause later.
Joba is better and more talented than the majority of middle relievers in baseball….past expectations don’t matter anymore. He is what he is and should be one of the better ones in the league.
J. Alfred Prufrock February 14th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
J. Alfred Prufrock February 14th, 2011 at 1:01 pm
West Coast Yankee Fan February 14th, 2011 at 12:52 pm
No one screwed Joba’s development up. He’s just not good enough; at least to this point. That’s the problem with stats,
///
stats??I’m a season holder who has watched virtually every live pitch he has thrown at Yankee Stadium.I have lived through all the adjustments on his delivery:hesitation break,stiff front leg,trying to get him less armsy & more under,etc.I’ve seen him shine & I’ve seen him fail.Never has his talent whispered “not good enough.”With all due respect,your eyes may not be “good enough”to know what “good enough” is.his raw talent has always been “good enough”.
_____
+1, season ticket holder and watched every pitch of every game also. Some of us actually use stats and also watch the game. I know it is a rare beast, but hey, it happens.
blake February 14th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
Joba is better and more talented than the majority of middle relievers in baseball….past expectations don’t matter anymore. He is what he is and should be one of the better ones in the league.
___
Exactly.
That’s really interesting to get the inside workings of how Cashman went about signing Sabathia. He really played that offseason well, except for (in my opinion) signing A.J. Burnett.
Sometimes it just amazes me how the pot gets stirred here.
Erica-how was your trip?
Ys Guy February 14th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
Loving that thought. LMAO ! The sooner that the young talent arrives in the Bronx all the better.
you have to be a really devoted pessimist to be down on P’s & C’s Day!
“I would like to opt out”
I hear ya, Erica. It’s too nice of a day to be cooped up.
Is it bad to cancel class to go play wiffle ball?
I’m seriously considering it right now…
Happy Valentine’s Day,folks.my wife took out time from a ridiculous schedule to bake me a heart shaped,belgian chocolate cake with fresh raspberries and whipped cream.wish I had never looked in this morning to see Cashman’s silly tweak at Chamberlain.better blow before I lose my appetite.Enjoy the holiday!
I’d opt out too with a big year and get more yrs. Smart business move.
I don’t know about an opt-out but I’ve been know to wish for do-overs!
Lukewarm answer by CC. Not a good sign. There was no..I love ny I love it here..I want to win as many as I can..another dark cloud emerges
Tom in N.J. February 14th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
“I would like to opt out”
I hear ya, Erica. It’s too nice of a day to be cooped up.
Is it bad to cancel class to go play wiffle ball?
I’m seriously considering it right now…
______
If you are in NJ, I assume you mean wiffle ball in the snow? lol. Maybe the fact that ST is upon us will help melt the snow.
J. Alfred Prufrock – I have not missed one Yankee game the last two years, about ten in person and the rest on television. I just don’t agree and neither does the entire Yankee organization. It doesn’t make Joba a bad guy, it just means since the shoulder injury he is not the same pitcher. I hope time has helped him and that this spring he proves me and others wrong.
Erin February 14th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
Erica-how was your trip?
***********
It was definitely what I needed but I would have loved another night there. Sadly, I had to be at work today.
Also, all of these years I have completely underestimated the awesomeness of Pat Benetar.
Yeah 161 million is not enough. I would want more. Tough to live on that. Plus endorsements.
WCYF, ERA is a terrible stat. All stats have their issues, but Joba’s FIP was 2.98, probably a more accurate stat in this case.
I am also off to lunch. Happy <3 Day, LoHudders!
Tom in N.J. February 14th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
“I would like to opt out”
I hear ya, Erica. It’s too nice of a day to be cooped up.
Is it bad to cancel class to go play wiffle ball?
I’m seriously considering it right now…
****************
I think its acceptable.
I am just sick of working. I am trying to gear up for the homestretch and I can’t seem to get my head into it.
West Coast Yankee Fan February 14th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
J. Alfred Prufrock – I have not missed one Yankee game the last two years, about ten in person and the rest on television. I just don’t agree and neither does the entire Yankee organization. It doesn’t make Joba a bad guy, it just means since the shoulder injury he is not the same pitcher. I hope time has helped him and that this spring he proves me and others wrong.
_______
Be careful here though. Not the same pitcher doesn’t = a bad reliever. He has been quite decent as a MR, regardless.
There’s an unused parking lot that looks promising. I just want to grab the grad students and make ‘em run around. They spend too much time drinking coffee, smoking and freaking out over everything. They need fresh air.
BobKlap
Two observations from Day 1 in Yankees’ camp: Joba is unquestionably overweight and CC is ready to excercise opt-out after this season.
#Yanks say they have no regrets about giving Sabathia opt-out clause, tho. Believe it was the only way to keep him from signing with Angels.
“Tough to live on that. Plus endorsements.”
Keep in mind his Cap N Crunch endorsement opportunity went down the drain today. He’s gotta think ahead.
And so the Joba debate continues. The good thing is it’s entirely up to him now and we will find out what his reality is shortly. If he is lights out he can only help his and the team’s cause.
http://twitpic.com/3zs2v7
Found this on RAB. Joba looks like he is ready to audition for Bad Santa II. I am assuming it’s taken this off season.
Cashman’s comments on why he offered Sabathia the opt out are interesting. In essence he was bidding blindly for his services, not knowing exactly what Sabathia was thinking, or what other teams might offer. It’s quite common in any business in those instances to overpay (one could look at the offered opt out as just that) but that’s hindsight. If you don’t sweeten the pot enough you run the risk of not getting your man and kicking yourself after. I have no issue with Cashman doing that given the circumstances.
That’s very, very tall order, Joba relying on Joba. I would expect he would more than likely just ask where the beer and the hot dogs are.
Mell February 14th, 2011 at 1:20 pm
“Tough to live on that. Plus endorsements.”
Keep in mind his Cap N Crunch endorsement opportunity went down the drain today. He’s gotta think ahead.
**************
The day Cap N Crunch gets rid of the Captain as a spokesman….
Thats a day I never want to see
Tom in N.J. February 14th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
There’s an unused parking lot that looks promising. I just want to grab the grad students and make ‘em run around. They spend too much time drinking coffee, smoking and freaking out over everything. They need fresh air.
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That could also be used to describe me.
(Minus the smoking…. ewww)
Cashmoney February 14th, 2011 at 1:22 pm
http://twitpic.com/3zs2v7
Found this on RAB. Joba looks like he is ready to audition for Bad Santa II. I am assuming it?s taken this off season.
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He really does look like Santa!
If CC opts out, then let him go. I don’t want the Yankees to get into some ridiculous bidding war with another team. Plus, that would mean he’d lied all this time. CC has continued to say that he’s not opting out – and now he’s iffy about it? He’d have been better off not saying anything.
Chad, does Phil look the same or is he bigger than last year?
the fact that Dodgers ownership is a mess and the Angels seem to always mess up in pursuit of big free agents…I see CC staying with New York
He really does look like Santa!
==============
His Santa cover went out the window today when he had to shave the facial hair last night. LOL !
“Plus, that would mean he’d lied all this time”
I’d agree he was talking more with his heart than his head, but I would not go so far as to say he was lying all this time. It’s a business. That’s how Cashman and the Yankees treat it and that’s how players and agents treat it. Not opting out would be bad business for Sabathia. I’m sure someone from his agent’s office whispered in his ear that he has to couch the answer to that question a little more carefully going forward.
“# Betsy February 14th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
If CC opts out, then let him go. I don’t want the Yankees to get into some ridiculous bidding war with another team. Plus, that would mean he’d lied all this time. CC has continued to say that he’s not opting out – and now he’s iffy about it? He’d have been better off not saying anything.
”
it’s typical ‘player speak’ ….I don’t really believe anything most players say about being happy somewhere….he’s been a great Yankee and has said all the expected company lines….hopefully he wants to be back but you never know what he really thinks when at home with his family
Yeah Erin, he does … good for a chuckle.
JackCurryYES I would be surprised if CC left the Yankees. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up with an extension.
GLove, I saw your post about the article/pitchers losing velocity, but I thought Phil threw 92-94 in the minors…..so, he really hasn’t lost, but he hasn’t gained like I remember Phil on this board saying he would. If Joba has lost, it’s probably because of the injury.
Mell, then CC shouldn’t have said all this time “I’m not opting out”. Either way, if he opts out, let him go.
Where would CC go?
The Dodgers are a mess, the Angels have to worry about locking up Weaver, the Giants have enough pitching, the Red Sox have no room left in the rotation, the Mets have no money, and the Phillies payroll is maxed out. Maybe the Rangers?
I think CC will stay in NY but he’ll probably want a deal similar to Lee’s.
I can’t blame Sabathia wanting to upgrade his deal. It’s not about the amount of money; it’s about the what you make in relation to your peers. Might as well be monopoly money.
Well Bronx Jeers is going to be very unhappy…Marmol and the Cubs have worked out a 3 year deal.
# J. Alfred Prufrock February 14th, 2011 at 12:53 pm
Why didn’t they send him down last yr when he struggled in both ST and the season? It’s the kid that raises hell for a couple of yrs and then the parents finally say ok now you’re in trouble
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AAO, because that would have been far too logical.does it ever occur to these people that punishing Chamberlain should not be the priority,but helping him achieve something should?only the latter can help the team.I’m out.
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I understand tough love and I’m all for it but isn’t it a little too late to pull him in after everything that has gone on. The last time they said Joba had to earn something it was ST last yr. Girardi came out and said he had to earn the 8th inning. A couple of weeks later after pitching a few innings guess who was named the 8th inning guy lol.
“Mell, then CC shouldn’t have said all this time “I’m not opting out”. Either way, if he opts out, let him go.”
Maybe so, but he did. My feeling has been he was answering that more from a “I’m happy to be here and want to stay” point of view than a true business one. I think he does want to be here and ultimately will be, but a free agent at 31 is worth a lot more than one at 35. He’d be selling himself short not to capitalize.
Anyone else thoroughly exhausted with talking about opt outs and contracts? If he leaves, he leaves. So what.
Let’s play ball already.
CC WILL opt out and the Yankees WILL re-sign him. Or the Yankees will extend him before he opts out. Either way, he will stay with the Yankees and he will get more money. I’d bet anything on it
“JackCurryYES I would be surprised if CC left the Yankees. I wouldn?t be surprised if he ends up with an extension.”
I really like having Curry doing Yankees coverage. He’s as good as they get in the business. But I don’t know how anyone can be so sure what Sabathia will do other than go out there every 5 days and try to win. He’s got roots in North Jersey now, kids in school and all that but he’s moved them already, hasn’t he? And he still heads West to deal with his charity every year. Not sure why he wouldn’t uproot the kids again. With that money, tutors are no problem.
I could see an extension or a buy-out of an option or two. But I don’t see him giving a “home town” discount to the Yankees. I’m feeling it at market rate.
# Ys Guy February 14th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
“next hot topic – Soriano’s opt outs.”
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chamberlain and brackman will put that to bed this year. we’ll be happy to say goodbye and take back a draft pick for him when he goes.
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Brackman could put that to bed I can’t say the same for Chamberlain
After seeing what the Yankees were willing to offer Lee… why wouldn’t the guy opt out?
I don’t blame him at all for reconsidering after he saw how this winter played out.
Its going to be a REALLY long 10 months if we are going to have the CC opt out discussion everyday
“But I don’t see him giving a “home town” discount to the Yankees. I’m feeling it at market rate.”
I agree with that
I just hope they don’t go the A-Rod route and create another albatross paying a guy $23+ million as he approaches 40.
# Patrick February 14th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
That’s really interesting to get the inside workings of how Cashman went about signing Sabathia. He really played that offseason well, except for (in my opinion) signing A.J. Burnett.
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They had to have Aj though because they weren’t high on having either Hughes or Kennedy in the rotation
Im not tired of opt outs and contracts already. It’s as much a part of the game as the crack of the bat and the ball smacking the glove. It’s always more interesting to me to test my appreciation of a player in real terms, how much he means to the team versus how much he costs the team and what other options are available.
Erica,
It just started this morning and I’m already over it. Let’s just focus on the season and stop giving the media all this fuel to beat this story into the ground. It’s boring. I’d rather talk about Joba’s barrel like chest than this.
I could see Joba, Phelps, Nunez, and Cojo going to Twins for Liriano. As much as I like Joba, I think I’d do that deal.
To be fair to the media… this would be a non-issue if CC had just repeated his answer from last year, saying he wasn’t going to out opt.
The fact that he changed his answer is obviously going to cause a stir. He should have known better.
one leg centipede latest tweet: CC might stay, opt out and leave or opt out and sign an extension.
I don’t think he even necessarily changed his answer.
He is at spring training to get ready for the upcoming season. Not to start possible contract negotiations. There is a time and a place for everything. This is not that time or place
“The fact that he changed his answer is obviously going to cause a stir. He should have known better”
We all should have known better. When they say they don’t want to opt out/want to stay in (fill in the town), it’s the same as saying it’s not about the money. It’s Orwellian double-speak.
I’m opting out of the opt out discussion
Let me change that trade to Joba, Ramulo Sanchez, JR Murphy, and Nunez for Liriano. Gives Twins 2 RPers (1 with SP stuff), and catcher to back up Mauer, and a middle INFer.
SI_JonHeyman #phillies will have all 5 starting pitchers at 1:30 press conference. very democratic of them to include joe blanton.
The braves will be better overall and have a better pitching staff than the Phillies by the end of 2012…..
wow that one legged centepede sure has his fingers on the pulse
in that spirit, ill go way out on a limb and predict that tomorrow will be sunny, cloudy or somewhere in between
If you scramble the letters in OPT OUT it says= TO POUT
Hidden meaning?!?!
Folks need to stop talking athlete’s words as the gospel. It’s always about the $$$$.
As others have said, CC was probably speaking with his heart when he made those previous quotes. Today, he is speaking, smartly, with his head.
Ys Guy February 14th, 2011 at 1:58 pm
wow that one legged centepede sure has his fingers on the pulse
in that spirit, ill go way out on a limb and predict that tomorrow will be sunny, cloudy or somewhere in between
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Wrong. It will be either warm or cold
Joe Blanton? lol. Who wants to ask him any questions?
Bojo,
Id do that deal as well but can’t imagine why the Twins would right now…….
BoJo February 14th, 2011 at 1:58 pm
Let me change that trade to Joba, Ramulo Sanchez, JR Murphy, and Nunez for Liriano. Gives Twins 2 RPers (1 with SP stuff), and catcher to back up Mauer, and a middle INFer.
————–
I think the most likely guy the Yankees trade for this season will be Joe Saunders.
D’Backs aren’t going anywhere
Kevin Towers and Brian Cashman are baseball’s version of Justin Bieber and Usher.
This is absolutely ridiculous.
The Yankees lose out on the #1 free agent on the market this offseason after he decided to take LESS GUARANTEED money from the Phillies because of the experience he had with them and what worked for their finances.
Meanwhile, the Yankees have to haggle hard with their 37 yr old SS to keep him in pinstripes and now face the possibility of having their ace, who has one of the largest contracts in baseball history for a SP, opt out for more money.
Can someone explain why teams like the Mets, Red Sox, Phillies, etc. get hometown discounts from their players while we have hard negotiations for 37 yr old SS’s coming off a $189M 10yr contract?
# Cashmoney February 14th, 2011 at 1:22 pm
http://twitpic.com/3zs2v7
Found this on RAB. Joba looks like he is ready to audition for Bad Santa II. I am assuming it’s taken this off season.
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Hey if the baseball thing doesn’t work out……
Joba 3 years ago:
http://baseball.dailyskew.com/.....784967.jpg
He can get in good shape if he wants to.
“Can someone explain why teams like the Mets, Red Sox, Phillies, etc. get hometown discounts from their players while we have hard negotiations for 37 yr old SS’s coming off a $189M 10yr contract?”
Yes. The Phillies, Mets and Red Sox don’t always wait for the player to reach free agency before locking them up long term.
“Can someone explain why teams like the Mets, Red Sox, Phillies, etc. get hometown discounts from their players while we have hard negotiations for 37 yr old SS?s coming off a $189M 10yr contract?”
The Mets, Sox, Phillies didn’t/don’t have anyone like Derek Jeter for the last ten years. Sort of a unique situation. And there’s that 5 ring thing too.
JoeyA February 14th, 2011 at 2:02 pm
This is absolutely ridiculous.
The Yankees lose out on the #1 free agent on the market this offseason after he decided to take LESS GUARANTEED money from the Phillies because of the experience he had with them and what worked for their finances.
Meanwhile, the Yankees have to haggle hard with their 37 yr old SS to keep him in pinstripes and now face the possibility of having their ace, who has one of the largest contracts in baseball history for a SP, opt out for more money.
Can someone explain why teams like the Mets, Red Sox, Phillies, etc. get hometown discounts from their players while we have hard negotiations for 37 yr old SS’s coming off a $189M 10yr contract?
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Because everyone knows that the Yankees have the money to spend.
And who is giving the Red Sox or Mets any discounts?
Ys. the one leg centipede is omniscient and omnipotent… but the…he only has five bucks left on his paid cellphone, so I treasure every one his tweets, cuz it could his last. side note, or if that one leg gets injury it’s kind of all over.
# Cashmoney February 14th, 2011 at 12:56 pm
David Well= One of the best big game pitcher in Yankee history.
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I’m not going to argue that the guy got up for big games but I will never forgive him for 2003. Hours after he was joking at his press conference how he doesn’t have to stay in shape because of his rubber arm he walks off the mound in the 1st inning because of a bad back completely blowing up the pen about 5 innings early. That right there cost them the series. If he would have even attempted to stay in shape or communicated his back woes this would have been avoided.
” who is giving the Red Sox or Mets any discounts?”
and i wasnt award cliff lee grew up in philly…
*aware*
David Well= One of the best big game pitcher in Yankee history
Billion dollar arm, ten cent head. Character matters.
JoeyA February 14th, 2011 at 2:02 pm
“Can someone explain why teams like the Mets, Red Sox, Phillies, etc. get hometown discounts from their players while we have hard negotiations for 37 yr old SS’s coming off a $189M 10yr contract?”
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Because Derek Jeter is not just any old 37 year old shortstop.
CC’s agent will probably turn the remaining 4 years on his deal after 2011 into 6 years…..which wont be the end of the world if he’s still pitching well.
Mell-
Why do we wait for FA before we lock up players?
murphydog-
I wasn’t looking to debate just the Jeter situation. How about ARod & Posada?
Chip-
Jose Reyes & David Wright’s extensions were very team friendly when they signed them. At 25, Lester signed a 5yr/30M extension and Pedroia, after his MVP season, signed a 6 yr/ 40M extension, the face of their franchise.
Mike in B, I remember that, also Giambi was out (back) , it was disappointing…
The Mets became the fine organization that they are today by giving discounts to the likes of Oliver Perez, Castillo, and Jason Bay.
JoeyA February 14th, 2011 at 2:13 pm
Mell-
Why do we wait for FA before we lock up players?
murphydog-
I wasn’t looking to debate just the Jeter situation. How about ARod & Posada?
Chip-
Jose Reyes & David Wright’s extensions were very team friendly when they signed them. At 25, Lester signed a 5yr/30M extension and Pedroia, after his MVP season, signed a 6 yr/ 40M extension, the face of their franchise.
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Those are different situations where guys are buying out their arbitration years it has nothing to do with Free Agency.
If they wanted to the Yankees could probably do something similar with Phil Hughes (not so much Cano now that he’s repped by Boras)
“Jose Reyes & David Wright’s extensions were very team friendly when they signed them. At 25, Lester signed a 5yr/30M extension and Pedroia, after his MVP season, signed a 6 yr/ 40M extension, the face of their franchise”
All four guys signed these deals well in advance of their free agency.
I’m not going to argue that the guy got up for big games but I will never forgive him for 2003. Hours after he was joking at his press conference how he doesn’t have to stay in shape because of his rubber arm he walks off the mound in the 1st inning because of a bad back completely blowing up the pen about 5 innings early. That right there cost them the series. If he would have even attempted to stay in shape or communicated his back woes this would have been avoided.
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murphydog says:
February 14, 2011 at 2:11 pm
David Well= One of the best big game pitcher in Yankee history
Billion dollar arm, ten cent head. Character matters.
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Totally agree with both points. Complete waste of time listening to him, gives new meaning to the old term boob tube.
“(not so much Cano now that he’s repped by Boras)”
They’ve already done it with Cano.
JoeyA February 14th, 2011 at 2:13 pm
Mell-
Why do we wait for FA before we lock up players?
murphydog-
I wasn’t looking to debate just the Jeter situation. How about ARod & Posada?
Chip-
Jose Reyes & David Wright’s extensions were very team friendly when they signed them. At 25, Lester signed a 5yr/30M extension and Pedroia, after his MVP season, signed a 6 yr/ 40M extension, the face of their franchise.
—
I’m pretty sure Lester and Pedroia were still in their arb years. In that case they give up max year to year money for less money but security.
“Mell-
Why do we wait for FA before we lock up players?”
Just hasn’t been policy in the past so far as I can tell. Not for Cashman. Not for the manager. Not for much of anyone. They did lock up Cano longterm and bought out some arb and FA years, but that’s about it. Maybe that was GMS’s way of doing business. Yankees generally needn’t fear free agency the way other teams do because of their financial might. Maybe this changes under Hal S. We’ll have to see.
I remember when a lot of fans were clamoring for the Yankees to extend Wang, especially after the fairly contentious arbitration hearing. Look how that turned out. As much as I love Hughes I wouldn’t extend him. It’s a pretty good rule of thumb to never extend pitchers
The Yankees wait until contracts expire because it reduces their risk of bad money. It costs them sometimes but almost always it costs them on players that are still good…..which in that case they don’t care to pay extra. By waiting until the contract expires they have a chance to see if the player stays healthy and productive……if they do then they pony up, if they don’t then they can get out. Its just their policy and sometimes it costs them money but generally its on players they want to keep and not with ones they don’t.
chien ming wang is why…
The Yanks had ample opportunities to lock up Jeter and bernie before their FA year. they choose not, it cost them a lot of money long term.
JoeyA:
A-Rod and Posada?
The owner(s) have a peculiar view about when and how to negotiate. Jeter was a unique case. So was A-Rod, initially. Texas was paying a chunk of his salary so why not? The re-sign after the opt out was, however, indefensible. Thanks Hank. I hope A-Rod plans on living with you in your dotage.
Posada? Maybe he got longevity pay, a bonus for being part of the Core Four. I can’t expain the number of years Sado got. But it’s hard to apply rationality to an ownership group that doesn’t always act (in the sense of Adam Smith/Keynes) rationally. When owners can/are willing to bury their mistakes with cash, there’s no explaining them.
Cashmoney February 14th, 2011 at 2:20 pm
The Yanks had ample opportunities to lock up Jeter and bernie before their FA year. they choose not, it cost them a lot of money long term.
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Same with Posada and Rivera a couple of years ago.
The Yanks had ample opportunities to lock up Jeter and bernie before their FA year. they choose not, it cost them a lot of money long term.
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And as I just said, they had ample opportunities to lock up Wang long term and it saved them lots of money.
Mell,
Wakefield not so much now since he is old but he has given them a discount. Beckett could have gotten more. Schilling as well
“I’m pretty sure Lester and Pedroia were still in their arb years.”
Lester and Pedroia hadn’t even hit their arb years when their deals were done.
Patrick, i rather go yr to yr with a pitcher because of injury risk are much greater than positional players when all things are equal. but that’s just my take. When it comes down to it , it has to do with club policy and each org ability to identify keepers.
Hypothetical trade:
Mets get: Jared Weaver and Erick Aybar
Angels get: Jose Reyes and Jonathan Niese
who says no and why?
Mell February 14th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
“I’m pretty sure Lester and Pedroia were still in their arb years.”
Lester and Pedroia hadn’t even hit their arb years when their deals were done.
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Ok, then what I said applies even more.
Patrick, i rather go yr to yr with a pitcher because of injury risk are much greater than positional players when all things are equal. but that’s just my take. When it comes down to it , it has to do with club policy and each org ability to identify keepers.
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Yeah exactly, I’d much rather go to year to year with pitchers.
Look for Gardner to get extended if he puts up another good year.
Ledger_Yankees Hank Steinbrenner: Doesn’t think CC is going anywhere. Basic message is that he’s got it good with Yankees. #nyy
Trip:
Beckett was still in his arb years when he signed his 1st deal with Boston. When he signed last year, he did so as a free agent and was paid top dollar. Don’t recall enough about Schilling’s deal to say. Wakefield’s been giving them a pretty cushy deal.
“Wakefield not so much now since he is old but he has given them a discount.”
Wakefield? Discount? He ought to be paying the Sox.
Ledger_Yankees “I’m not going to get into that,” Hank on whether #nyy will negotiate with Sabathia before he can opt out.
Murphy dog, iirc Posada got 4 years because that’s what was offered to him elsewhere after a career year in his walk season, by none other than No-More Minaya.
Happy days are here again.
2 things. First I’m shocked that Jorge has been yanked from catching. I thought it would be more subtle than this. It is a clean break, though and less messy.
Second, some of you crack me up. If Joba has options and doesn’t cut it (unlikely, but IF) then why shouldn’t he be sent down in favor of one of the other big prospects? The next wave of pitchers are about to crash, all the young guys in the majors need to watch their back. I think Cash made a blanket statement about all the guys with options. It’s not just Joba.
Is this Joba option old news? I was under the impression his expired.
Patrick February 14th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
The Yanks had ample opportunities to lock up Jeter and bernie before their FA year. they choose not, it cost them a lot of money long term.
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And as I just said, they had ample opportunities to lock up Wang long term and it saved them lots of money.
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And they had ample time to lock up Derek and Posada and it cost them money.
There is no one right way of doing this – there’s a risk either way and you just have to get lucky.
Wang didn’t get a long term deal because he had a history of shoulder and arm problems in the minors – I’m guessing that’s why we haven’t heard them talk about a deal for Hughes yet either.
Patrick February 14th, 2011 at 2:27 pm
Patrick, i rather go yr to yr with a pitcher because of injury risk are much greater than positional players when all things are equal. but that’s just my take. When it comes down to it , it has to do with club policy and each org ability to identify keepers.
—
Yeah exactly, I’d much rather go to year to year with pitchers.
Look for Gardner to get extended if he puts up another good year.
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Depends on:
A) when he’s up for arbitration
B) health of that hand/wrist.
How did not locking up Jeter and Posada cost them money? Unless you are talking a decade ago when they were still in arbitration
“Hypothetical trade:
Mets get: Jared Weaver and Erick Aybar
Angels get: Jose Reyes and Jonathan Niese
who says no and why?”
personally i want in on reyes’ walk year. is weaver f/a eligible after this season?
“Mets get: Jared Weaver and Erick Aybar
Angels get: Jose Reyes and Jonathan Niese”
Not sure whether anyone would say no, but if one did it would be the Angels.
Depends on:
A) when he’s up for arbitration
B) health of that hand/wrist.
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Why? If he does well this year it means his wrist is healthy.
I think the only Yankee to give them a discount was Paul Oneill. If the Yankees didn’t get held hostage and started giving out extensions their payroll would be in the 180 range instead of north of 200. It might not seem like a big deal but it could have been enough to get a Beltran way back when
Patrick February 14th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
How did not locking up Jeter and Posada cost them money? Unless you are talking a decade ago when they were still in arbitration
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In Jeter’s case that is what I’m talking about.
In Posada’s case the Yankees let him get to free agency 4 years ago rather than signing him to a new deal – the result was that he had that meeting with the Mets which freaked Cashman out and he gave Posada a 4th year on his deal – which we’re now in.
CC just wants to pitch a long time and this opt out gives him the opportunity to sign an extension with the Yankees. Now that he knows he likes it in NY, this sounds like a good thing. He’s thinking HOF and Yankee icon.
Ys Guy February 14th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
“Hypothetical trade:
Mets get: Jared Weaver and Erick Aybar
Angels get: Jose Reyes and Jonathan Niese
who says no and why?”
personally i want in on reyes’ walk year. is weaver f/a eligible after this season?
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I think Weaver has another year or two of arbitration.
“How did not locking up Jeter and Posada cost them money?”
I think some small argument could be made that locking up Posada before his previous deal expired would have spared them that extra year (read: 2011).
Not a good idea to extend aging catchers, I don’t have a problem with them allowing Posada to reach free agency.
if weaver is still under control then i just dont see the angels making that move.
“Murphy dog, iirc Posada got 4 years because that?s what was offered to him elsewhere after a career year in his walk season, by none other than No-More Minaya.”
True dat. Omar apparently put big money on the table for Posada. But the Yankees could have and frankly should have called his bluff. I love Po, but the nerve of him using the frikken Mets to drive up his Yankee deal. Po would have gone to Flushing and HATED himself for the next four years. He would have crawled back to the Yankees if only the Yanks had called his bluff. But the owners didn’t want to get nasty wth Po I guess. I’m not sure Cash is on the record about Posada’s last contract. He might be, I just dont recall.
“Not a good idea to extend aging catchers”
Yet that’s what they did.
“I think Weaver has another year or two of arbitration.”
In that case, I think it’s a definite NO from the Halos end.
Chip,
Weaver is a free agent after 2012 I believe
Murph, would u have call bluff on Jeter this off season?
# Erin February 14th, 2011 at 2:27 pm
Ledger_Yankees Hank Steinbrenner: Doesn’t think CC is going anywhere. Basic message is that he’s got it good with Yankees. #nyy
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Hank has spoken
AndrewMarchand
Hank says that CC won’t opt out, but his reasoning was not sound. We tried to explain it would just be 4 more money, not 2 leave
facepalm
Yet that’s what they did.
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I meant, it’s not a good idea to extend them while they are still under contract. Given the options, signing him to a new deal was the only option at the time.
cant see the angels giving up weaver under control through next year for reyes coming off an injury and a f/a after the season. if i like reyes, i keep wever and sign reyes at the end of this year. the other guy….eh…
“Hank says…”
enough said…
“Murph, would u have call bluff on Jeter this off season?”
Thankfully I only have to make life and death decisions for my criminal clients
I could see the shape of the Jeter deal the deal being ok, becasue IMO, it had to be structured so Jeter decides when to retire, not the team. The money was too much on pure stats, but it was like negotiating with a unicorn. It got nasty but the Yankees’ history with Jeter and his agent is nasty, we’ve just forgotten that. I would have been reluctant to call Jeter’s bluff. A 37 year old SS is not exactly the paradigm, but he’s far more valuable IMO than a 37 year old catcher.
I would characterize the last 2 Pettitte deals as the player giving the home town team a discount. he took the years and lower salary by saying he only wanted to play for them. Same MIGHT be said for Rivera by not testing the market.
Ys Guy,
After the Angels taking Weaver to arb over 1 million I think he is as good as gone
BryanHoch Yankees still finalizing language of Andruw Jones deal, but it’s done. Need to make 40-man roster move; Cashman says it won’t be a problem.
Patrick February 14th, 2011 at 2:34 pm
Not a good idea to extend aging catchers, I don’t have a problem with them allowing Posada to reach free agency.
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So rather than extend an aging catcher for three years you would rather let him go to Free Agency and sign him for four?
“I meant, it’s not a good idea to extend them while they are still under contract. Given the options, signing him to a new deal was the only option at the time.”
Agreed on both counts. What I wonder is whether it was the only option a year earlier too? And if so, why not act then? Of course Minaya and the Mets may have been an unforseem wild card in all this, so who knows?
Patrick February 14th, 2011 at 2:41 pm
Yet that’s what they did.
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I meant, it’s not a good idea to extend them while they are still under contract. Given the options, signing him to a new deal was the only option at the time.
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I don’t disagree – I’m just saying that sometimes the plan backfires.
“After the Angels taking Weaver to arb over 1 million I think he is as good as gone”
absolutly, but not until he’s a f/a which someone said is after 2012. so ill take 2 years of cheap weaver over one year of reyes (who gets $11M for just this year). especially when you can just sign reyes after this year. nobody (not even the mets) would sign him to an extention right now, because you have to see how he comes back this year to know what his value even is.
So rather than extend an aging catcher for three years you would rather let him go to Free Agency and sign him for four?
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Yes because if you extend him while he’s still under contract there’s a possibility that he gets injured in that extension year. If you don’t extend him then he gets injured and you just don’t sign him when he’s a FA.
How would the Yankee situation be improved in any way without Posada on the roster this year?
“I would characterize the last 2 Pettitte deals as the player giving the home town team a discount.”
Well, the ’09 deal was force fed. He had no choice there.
Well Bronx Jeers is going to be very unhappy…Marmol and the Cubs have worked out a 3 year deal.
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?????
I think you’ve got the wrong guy.
Yeah Murph, taking everything into considerations, I thought the Yanks and Jete reached a good compromise. Depends on supply and demand a 37 yr Po could have a lot more suitors than a 37 year old SS. In Po case, I think he actually had more leverage than Jete when he hit the FA market. There was a very realistic chance of him going somewhere, Mets for example.
Unicorn.. interesting analogy.
I don’t disagree – I’m just saying that sometimes the plan backfires.
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Hindsight is 20/20
we won a WS title with po under this contract. good enough for me!
hip hip jorge!
Patrick February 14th, 2011 at 2:50 pm
So rather than extend an aging catcher for three years you would rather let him go to Free Agency and sign him for four?
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Yes because if you extend him while he’s still under contract there’s a possibility that he gets injured in that extension year. If you don’t extend him then he gets injured and you just don’t sign him when he’s a FA.
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But if he doesn’t get injured in that last year, and you re-sign him, then you still run the risk of him getting injured in future years – as Posada did.
Essentially it only “works” for the team if the player gets hurt so badly in that final year that the only clear cut choice is to not retain the player going forward.
“How would the Yankee situation be improved in any way without Posada on the roster this year?”
Depends on how his $13M would be spent.
Bronx Jeers February 14th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
Well Bronx Jeers is going to be very unhappy…Marmol and the Cubs have worked out a 3 year deal.
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?????
I think you’ve got the wrong guy.
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Sorry – I thought you were big into the Yankees trading for Marmol
How would the Yankee situation be improved in any way without Posada on the roster this year?
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1. money
2. that money could be possibly be utilized in getting a better DH candidate.
Chip you are assuming Posada accepts a shorter extension than he would on the FA market.
And either way, if the deal is 3 years of 4 years the Yankees lose him for a season. This way we have him as a DH for the last year. Fine with me.
Cashmoney:
They always say better to lose a guy a year early than hang onto him a year too long. That seems to be the thinking everywhere but the Bronx.
I could see Posada having suitors three years ago, but seriously, could you see him wearing the Orange and Blue (or the Holloween Costume black and orange) over at Bernie Madoff Field? Po playing for the Mets? I might have told him to enjoy life over there at the end of the runway. They got by with friggen Francisco Cervelli for the better part of the last two years and this year it’s Posada the DH. We’ll see. I might have let Po go. (Pogo?)
And yeah, Jeter is like a Unicorn. hard to negotiate productively agasint a pure, mythical creature.
That’s why the brain trust at Cash & Carry, Inc. had to treat him like flesh and blood in the negotiations and get a little nasty. They had to remind everybody he was human. They could achived the same end by pointing to Mariah Carey, but I digress…
It was hidden deep inside A.J. Burnett?s head but something positive seeped out of last year?s pitching nightmare.
?Last year it really hit me how important I am to this team,?? the Yankees starter said in a George M. Steinbrenner Field hallway late this morning. ?I am not saying that we didn?t win the World Series because of me but I know if I had been right, it would have been a lot easier chore. I never knew how important I was to a team.??
?I get it,?? said Burnett, who is slated for an 8:30 bullpen session Tuesday morning. ?I am fine with that and I understand that. I know that 2009 was the good part and last year was the complete opposite.??
?My leg should be going down, not swinging,?? said Burnett, whose breaking ball flattened out and fastball lost velocity when the leg had too much swing in it. ?I have to make sure it?s going down.??
?I get a lot of support from my family, my wife and kids support me more than anybody but I have also gotten a lot of support from New York Yankee fans,?? Burnett said.
Whole article below, George King:
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....OnZFB28P1I
So Jeet is a unicorn? And Alex is a centaur. CC could be a Clydesdale…maybe Joba too. What does that make AJ? Wild stallion? Stubborn mule?
first, alex is a centaur, now jeter is a unicorn?
great minds…
BloggingBombers To be clear, I think it’s a near certainty that Sabathia will opt out, but only to get a longer deal with the Yankees. He loves it here.
New Post: Girardi expects Jeter to return to leadoff role
Joba might be closer to a hog.
Ys Guy
are you reading my thoughts?
People forget that during the offseason when Posada signed his last contract, there just was no other viable option, unless you considered crappy/mediocre catchers a viable option to Posada. Posada had all the leverage.
Posada DH’ing this year is not a concern with this team anyway.
The four starters other than CC (assuming CC will be his usual self) will determine the season, imo.
# BoJo February 14th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
I would characterize the last 2 Pettitte deals as the player giving the home town team a discount. he took the years and lower salary by saying he only wanted to play for them. Same MIGHT be said for Rivera by not testing the market.
*************
That’s not true, GS, Red Sox made an offer and Mariano let the Yankees know. How’s that not testing the market?
“I don’t think the Yankees would allow that to happen. I just had to make sure I had a job, and the Yankees did that.” – Mariano Rivera
It’s a win-win for CC. If he has a good year, he opts out and gets a bigger deal. If he has a bad year, he stays with the Yanks and gets the remaining $90+ million on his current contract.
Last week I said I wouldn’t be surprised if CC left after this year