The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Thursday morning notes: Martin’s knee and Rivera’s arrival

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes on Feb 17, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

In the back of the Yankees clubhouse, on the left side of the room, there is a row of five lockers. Jorge Posada is in the corner, followed by Francisco Cervelli, Austin Romine, Jesus Montero and Russell Martin. They’re all grouped together, the top of the food chain in this catching-rich organization.

Martin’s locker is at the end of the row, almost as if they’re easing the new guy into the mix.

So far, the Yankees are easing Martin into catching drills. His hip is fine, but Martin is still working out some range-of-motion issues with the MCL in his right knee. He said it loosens day by day, and squatting behind the plate actually seems to be helping the process.

The only thing Martin is not doing is block balls in the dirt. The Yankees don’t want him to start blocking drills just yet, worried that slamming his knee into the ground might cause a setback at a time when he’s very nearly 100 percent.

For the most part, though, Martin said he feels good and his lower half feels strong. Yankees camp is very regimented, and the team goes pretty hard from the very beginning of camp.

“I’m glad I came prepared,” he said.

• The closer has arrived. Mariano Rivera got into town last night and will begin his usual spring training routine this morning. As usual, he’s not sure when he’ll finally throw off a mound, but it won’t be any time soon.

• Reegie Corona has been scratched from big league camp. He’s still rehabbing and will get his treatments at the minor league complex. His locker at big league camp has been cleaned out. Name plate taken down and everything.

• Speaking of name plates, there is finally a locker labeled D.J. Mitchell. Either as a joke or a mistake, Mitchell’s locker was originally labeled Bryan Mitchell.

• CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett each threw bullpens earlier this morning. “The earlier the better,” Burnett said. They’re up around 30 pitches each.

• Bullpen assignments:

Group 1
Bartolo Colon (to Francisco Cervelli)
Freddy Garcia (to Russell Martin)
Sergio Mitre (to Austin Romine)

Group 2
Luis Ayala (to Jesus Montero)
Boone Logan (to Gustavo Molina)
Mark Prior (to Jose Gil)

Group 3
Buddy Carlyle (to Austin Romine)
Robert Fish (to Kyle Higashioka)
Ryan Pope (to Jose Gil)

• Same hitting groups as the past two days.

Associated Press photo of Martin with Jorge Posada

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364 Responses to “Thursday morning notes: Martin’s knee and Rivera’s arrival”

  1. Joe from Long Island February 17th, 2011 at 10:38 am

    G.Love ? I tend to agree with your 9:56 post.

    First, Chad and Sam do a top notch job. When they do offer their own opinions, they label them as such, keeping it distinct from their reporting, which tends to be accurate.

    Secondly, yes, it does appear that Joba and Cash/the Yankees are not on the same page all of the time. However, I do think that there have been numerous meetings with Joba. It was reported last season, if I remember correctly, that Joba met with everybody except maybe the bat boy, in an attempt to get on the same page with things.

    Cash clearly got Robbie Cano?s attention, a year ago, when he spoke in the universal language of money. So, I think Cash knows what motivates contemporary pro athelets.

    We all know the answer for Joba. He has to find Jesus within himself.

    Heck, in a way, we all do. But, that?s another discussion for another forum.

  2. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 10:39 am

    Chip February 17th, 2011 at 10:36 am
    So if you’re Detroit and you’re fed up with Miguel Cabrera:

    Texas gets: Miguel Cabrera and Brandon Boesch
    Detroit gets: Mitch Moreland, Nelson Cruz, Derrek Holland and Michael Young

  3. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 10:41 am

    Reegie Corona has been scratched from big league camp. He’s still rehabbing and will get his treatments at the minor league complex. His locker at big league camp has been cleaned out. Name plate taken down and everything.

    ——————–

    My guess is that to clear room on the 40 for Freddy Garcia and Eric Chavez Corona will be DFA’d and Marte will be put on the 60 day DL

  4. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 10:43 am

    I have to admit, judging from the pictures, “Coach” Posada is taking this a lot better than I thought he would.

  5. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 10:44 am

    Photo caption–

    Jorge: “So, make SURE that when you call for a pitch and get shaken off to let the ball get past you so the pitcher knows who is in charge. Just listen to me kid, and you’ll be a star.”

    Thought bubble: “I’ll be catching again in no time, hehehe!”

  6. Mell February 17th, 2011 at 10:45 am

    “Texas gets: Miguel Cabrera and Brandon Boesch
    Detroit gets: Mitch Moreland, Nelson Cruz, Derrek Holland and Michael Young”

    What makes you think Texas wants 5 years and $107M of a drinking problem?

  7. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 10:46 am

    Mell February 17th, 2011 at 10:45 am
    “Texas gets: Miguel Cabrera and Brandon Boesch
    Detroit gets: Mitch Moreland, Nelson Cruz, Derrek Holland and Michael Young”

    What makes you think Texas wants 5 years and $107M of a drinking problem?

    ———————-

    Josh Hamilton’s history didn’t scare them off; but you’re right – Cabrera does come with a lot of baggage.

  8. Cashmoney February 17th, 2011 at 10:47 am

    5 years and $107M of a drinking problem who may still produce like the second best hitter in the ML. just saying…

  9. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 10:48 am

    Cabrera’s response to Chip’s trade suggestion?

    “I’ll drink to that!”

  10. Ys Guy February 17th, 2011 at 10:49 am

    yeah, we all hope miguel gets help, but he’s been playing with a drinking problem a long time apparently, and he can always rake.

    mickey..babe..wells…

  11. Erin February 17th, 2011 at 10:50 am

    BryanHoch Mariano says he doesn’t know Soriano very well – yet. … “I will get to know him better … It’s going to be an interesting year.”

  12. PacoDooley February 17th, 2011 at 10:50 am

    Not a good situation getting Cabrera and Young together, or is it? Maybe they can be a support system for each other. I think Cabrera’s contract will keep a lot of teams from being interested, despite the fact that he is probably the best pure hitter in the AL.

  13. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 10:51 am

    Cashmoney February 17th, 2011 at 10:47 am
    5 years and $107M of a drinking problem who may still produce like the second best hitter in the ML. just saying…

    —————

    And if they were to send Young to Detroit in part of the deal that would offset nearly half the money owed Miggy. So it’s more like 5 years $60 mil (or less than what the Jays are stupidly about to give Jose Bautista)

  14. Erin February 17th, 2011 at 10:51 am

    BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 10:48 am
    Cabrera?s response to Chip?s trade suggestion?

    ?I?ll drink to that!?

    **************************
    I feel guilty for laughing, but :lol:

  15. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 10:51 am

    For people who are worried about drafting Cabrera because of drinking problems, would you have passed on Mickey Mantle, Babe Ruth, or Whitey Ford?

    Well, sure now you would…because they are dead or really old…but in their day?

  16. Mell February 17th, 2011 at 10:51 am

    “5 years and $107M of a drinking problem who may still produce like the second best hitter in the ML. just saying…”

    True. However, what are the Tigers getting this year? If rehab is indeed in Cabrera’s near future, when is he contributing to the Tigers cause this season? After some extended spring training?

    Beyond that, Texas would be giving up way too much in Chip’s proposal.

  17. privategibson February 17th, 2011 at 10:52 am

    I was wondering how Prior has looked so far?

  18. Ys Guy February 17th, 2011 at 10:52 am

    so far all jorge is missing is blocking balls in the dirt drills and pitchers throwing all fastballs. the real test will be when martin goes 0 for a week and they’ve lost 3 in a row…po’s sitting on the bench chatting with andruw jones and thinking….

  19. ZachA February 17th, 2011 at 10:53 am

    I don’t if this has already been passed around, but check out this hilarious article by the WSJ:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/.....%3Darticle

  20. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 10:53 am

    Chip–

    I’d do that deal if I were Texas, but try to exclude Cruz and Boesch. I like BB but Cruz is a budding superstar

    DRAFT ALERT–Pick Cruz if you can,,,he’ll put up great numbers this year if healthy.

  21. Erin February 17th, 2011 at 10:54 am

    Ledger_Yankees True stories from the official roster: Mariano Rivera and Bartolo Colon have something in common — their weight. A cool 185. #nyy

    Ledger_Yankees BTW, Colon is now officially listed at 250 this morning, a gain of 65 pounds overnight. In related news, anybody seen Edwar Ramirez? #nyy :lol:

    YankeesWFAN Mariano Rivera arrived with his usual regal presence. Still has the passion but understands Pettitte’s decision, hard to leave the family.

  22. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 10:54 am

    Mell February 17th, 2011 at 10:51 am
    Beyond that, Texas would be giving up way too much in Chip’s proposal.

    —————–

    Really?

    They’re giving up a 1b Prospect but that’s fine because they’re getting back Cabrera
    A back of the rotation starter in Holland (who was used out of the pen last year)
    Michael Young and his mega contract

    The only top player they’re giving up is Nelson Cruz

    I think it’s a small price to pay for a guy who is a regular MVP candidate.

  23. pat February 17th, 2011 at 10:55 am

    BryanHoch Mariano says he doesn’t know Soriano very well – yet. … “I will get to know him better … It’s going to be an interesting year.”

  24. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 10:56 am

    Erin February 17th, 2011 at 10:54 am

    YankeesWFAN Mariano Rivera arrived with his usual regal presence. Still has the passion but understands Pettitte’s decision, hard to leave the family.
    ___________________
    If they’ll pay me $14M, I’ll leave Andy’s family!

  25. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 10:56 am

    Gary Sheffield officially retired – HOF?

  26. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 10:56 am

    BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 10:56 am
    Erin February 17th, 2011 at 10:54 am

    YankeesWFAN Mariano Rivera arrived with his usual regal presence. Still has the passion but understands Pettitte’s decision, hard to leave the family.
    ___________________
    If they’ll pay me $14M, I’ll leave Andy’s family!

    ———-

    Indeed.

  27. Cashmoney February 17th, 2011 at 10:57 am

    Mell, I think le tigre will keep Miggy. I just think Miggy will produce on field regardless of his ‘problems’. Chip likes trades, we all know that :)

  28. Mell February 17th, 2011 at 11:00 am

    “Mell, I think le tigre will keep Miggy. I just think Miggy will produce on field regardless of his ‘problems’. Chip likes trades, we all know that”

    I think so too. Don’t think they have much choice, but I don’t believe they’re looking for an out on him…..yet.

  29. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 11:00 am

    Chip,

    Holland may be a back of the rotation starter now but he has big upside – think 1 or 2 starter.

  30. Ys Guy February 17th, 2011 at 11:01 am

    bye shef! it sure was…interesting…cant say he was ever boring!

    hof, by the #’s border line, but b/c of his balco connections and taking away votes b/c he pissed off some writers who with god complexes, he doesnt get in for a very long time if ever.

  31. J. Alfred Prufrock February 17th, 2011 at 11:02 am

    yeh he’s got enough money,some things actually go beyond this.
    ///
    the comments in this place over the several days regarding Joba Chamberlain’s weight have been downright creepy.I like the info that Chamberlain is humming along with an easy delivery.how silly will it be if he’s got something figured out there and only shows up in the occasional 6th inning?and as for comin clean about not knowing what he was preparing for,it’s refreshing to hear the kid speak his mind finally.I especially noticed his basic “what shoulder problem” commentary with interest.like I’ve been saying,how is this kid “competing” for a starting job in ST 2010 if the yanks think he’s an injury risk in the rotation?sloppy,sloppy, sloppy and finally,just baffling.

  32. Cashmoney February 17th, 2011 at 11:02 am

    Yes to shef chip. his qualitative and quantitative numbers warrants it.

  33. tampayank February 17th, 2011 at 11:03 am

    when do position players report? I actually thought it was today

  34. Mell February 17th, 2011 at 11:03 am

    “Gary Sheffield officially retired – HOF?”

    Pretty extraordinary hitter, but also a top flight asswipe. I’d say yes on merit, but how can you not wonder about the voting body and how they’ll view him.

  35. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 11:04 am

    Gary Sheffield officially retired – HOF?

    I’m going with yes

  36. Triple Short of a Cycle February 17th, 2011 at 11:04 am

    BoJo,

    Its not about passing on him all together. Its passing on him where he is being drafted at number 2 or 3. According to everything I read he was sober last year and put up his best season. When he was with Florida and drinking he was very good but not number 2 overall good. The first round is about taking the best player and mitigating your risk.

  37. J. Alfred Prufrock February 17th, 2011 at 11:04 am

    We trade Joba,I predict he will go on to have a distinctive career as a ML starter somewhere.I hope he gets that chance.

  38. Ys Guy February 17th, 2011 at 11:05 am

    when shef was locked in and facing a fastball pitcher it was a moment to watch! when he had it in his head that you couldnt throw it by him, you just couldn’t, so sir!

    growing up trying to hit uncle doc produced some of the quickest wrists on a hitter all-time.

  39. blake February 17th, 2011 at 11:06 am

    If some.writers lumped Bagwell in with PED users…..Id more than expect them to do the same with Sheffield. I think he was a better hitter than several guys that are already in….

  40. Ys Guy February 17th, 2011 at 11:07 am

    that was supposed to be *’no sir’*

  41. Erin February 17th, 2011 at 11:07 am

    RiverAveBlues Check out the @MLBNetwork?s Spring Training TV schedule: 83 live games, 10 with the Yanks. http://atmlb.com/fWY3Mv

  42. Tom in N.J. February 17th, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Sheffield was ferocious….

  43. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 11:00 am
    Chip,

    Holland may be a back of the rotation starter now but he has big upside – think 1 or 2 starter.

    ——————

    Well ok – I would still give him up in a second for Miguel Cabrera who is an MVP candidate right now.

    Joba Chamberlain had big upside too at one time.

  44. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 11:09 am

    Mell February 17th, 2011 at 11:03 am
    a top flight asswipe.
    ————————–

    is that a technical term?

  45. Ys Guy February 17th, 2011 at 11:09 am

    blake as far as roiders go, (and i make no judgement what to do with this info), shef was pretty much bagged. he pretended he didnt know anything (the famous barry bonds flaxseed defense) but he’s right there with bonds, unproven but with a mountain of evidence pointing toward his usage.

  46. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 11:10 am

    Mell February 17th, 2011 at 11:00 am
    “Mell, I think le tigre will keep Miggy. I just think Miggy will produce on field regardless of his ‘problems’. Chip likes trades, we all know that”

    I think so too. Don’t think they have much choice, but I don’t believe they’re looking for an out on him…..yet.

    —————

    I tend to agree – I don’t believe he’s getting traded – just posing a hypothetical

  47. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 11:10 am

    Well ok – I would still give him up in a second for Miguel Cabrera who is an MVP candidate right now.

    Joba Chamberlain had big upside too at one time.

    Well duh, who wouldn’t give up Derek Holland for Cabrera? But Cruz, Young and Moreland too? Hell no

    And before you say it, no Brennan Boesch does not help

  48. Mell February 17th, 2011 at 11:11 am

    “If some.writers lumped Bagwell in with PED users…..Id more than expect them to do the same with Sheffield”

    And in Sheffield’s case, unlike Bagwell’s, there would be some merit to it.

  49. blake February 17th, 2011 at 11:11 am

    Ys guy,

    Yea I know which is why unless things change drastically I can’t see Sheffield getting in anytime soon….

  50. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 11:12 am

    RAB reports that Cashman says there is no way Banuelos or Betances will earn spots with the ML club out of spring training – both will start the year at AA.

    I heard Billy Eppler on the radio the other day talking about both of them – his take is that stuff wise both of them are ready for the majors today. He has no doubt about that – but believes also that both of them need to hit some organizational marks with regard to innings before they will be considered for major league duty.

  51. Mell February 17th, 2011 at 11:12 am

    “And before you say it, no Brennan Boesch does not help”

    Might even hurt.

  52. Against All Odds February 17th, 2011 at 11:12 am

    # J. Alfred Prufrock February 17th, 2011 at 11:02 am

    yeh he’s got enough money,some things actually go beyond this.
    ///
    the comments in this place over the several days regarding Joba Chamberlain’s weight have been downright creepy.I like the info that Chamberlain is humming along with an easy delivery.how silly will it be if he’s got something figured out there and only shows up in the occasional 6th inning?and as for comin clean about not knowing what he was preparing for,it’s refreshing to hear the kid speak his mind finally.I especially noticed his basic “what shoulder problem” commentary with interest.like I’ve been saying,how is this kid “competing” for a starting job in ST 2010 if the yanks think he’s an injury risk in the rotation?sloppy,sloppy, sloppy and finally,just baffling.

    ————————————————–

    JAP stop that stop that right now because you’re making too much sense

  53. blake February 17th, 2011 at 11:12 am

    Mell,

    Correct.

  54. Ys Guy February 17th, 2011 at 11:13 am

    ….just waiting for someone to get on a soapbox anti-steroid or anti-anti-steroids…

  55. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Brennan Boesch reminds me of a young Darryl Strawberry…would pick him as a sleeper in draft.if available in round 8 or above.

  56. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 11:10 am
    Well ok – I would still give him up in a second for Miguel Cabrera who is an MVP candidate right now.

    Joba Chamberlain had big upside too at one time.

    Well duh, who wouldn’t give up Derek Holland for Cabrera? But Cruz, Young and Moreland too? Hell no

    And before you say it, no Brennan Boesch does not help

    ——————

    Young is not a positive in this deal – he’s a contract to help offset some of the money Texas takes on with the Cabrera contract.

    Moreland is another prospect who might be good but also might never hit LHP

    Nelson Cruz is the only established star in the group and even he has his issues.

    It’s not a big price to pay for an MVP candidate in his prime.

    Hamilton and Cabrera would be the most fearsome duo in baseball possibly since Maris and Mantle.

  57. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 11:16 am

    Ys Guy February 17th, 2011 at 11:13 am

    ….just waiting for someone to get on a soapbox anti-steroid or anti-anti-steroids…
    ________________
    Hey folks! Let’s ALL DO STEROIDS AND KICK THIS BLOG UP A NOTCH!

    :-)

  58. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 11:16 am

    Brennan Boesch reminds me of a young Darryl Strawberry…would pick him as a sleeper in draft.if available in round 8 or above.

    You’re right, he probably will hit as well as a 14 year old Darryl Strawberry

  59. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 11:17 am

    It’s not a big price to pay for an MVP candidate in his prime.

    Uhh yes it is a big price to pay. The Rangers would be trading their second best overall player (Cruz), their starting 1B, starting DH and possibly their best starting pitcher. They get back a replacement level outfielder and an MVP candidate. Terrible deal for Texas.

  60. tampayank February 17th, 2011 at 11:18 am

    “# Mell February 17th, 2011 at 11:03 am

    “Gary Sheffield officially retired – HOF?”

    Pretty extraordinary hitter, but also a top flight asswipe. I’d say yes on merit, but how can you not wonder about the voting body and how they’ll view him.

    he was on the espn tampa station around a month ago basically begging for the Rays to sign him, he had dinner w/ Joe Madden and said he was misled b/c the Rays seemed interested than he never heard from them again….I bet the Manny/ Damon signing upset him.

  61. West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 11:18 am

    The bat looked like a toothpick in Sheffield’s hands. Not the most endearing personality; but in his prime an absolutely fearsome hitter.

  62. Mell February 17th, 2011 at 11:19 am

    “Brennan Boesch reminds me of a young Darryl Strawberry…would pick him as a sleeper in draft.if available in round 8 or above”

    Strawberry ever hit .163 with a .458 OPS over the last 3 months of a season while getting regular at bats?

  63. Ys Guy February 17th, 2011 at 11:20 am

    just wanted to mention it agian in case anyone missed it im buying all that joba stock you want to divest yourselves of.

    i know some of you still have some of those old ’07 shares you bought way back stuffed under the mattress.

  64. Against All Odds February 17th, 2011 at 11:20 am

    # J. Alfred Prufrock February 17th, 2011 at 11:04 am

    We trade Joba,I predict he will go on to have a distinctive career as a ML starter somewhere.I hope he gets that chance.

    —————————————-

    I wouldn’t mind seeing that happen. It would probably do him some good to get out of NY

  65. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 11:20 am

    Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 11:17 am
    It’s not a big price to pay for an MVP candidate in his prime.

    Uhh yes it is a big price to pay. The Rangers would be trading their second best overall player (Cruz), their starting 1B, starting DH and possibly their best starting pitcher. They get back a replacement level outfielder and an MVP candidate. Terrible deal for Texas.

    —-

    They have depth at DH (Napoli)
    They’re getting a clear upgrade at 1b (Cabrera)
    They have depth in the OF (Borbon and Murphy)
    Cabrera is also a clear upgrade over their “second best player” in Cruz
    and Holland’s not even slated for the rotation.
    Oh – and they’re unloading an unhappy Michael Young and the nearly $50 million he’s owed

  66. Joe from Long Island February 17th, 2011 at 11:21 am

    Re: Banuelos and Betances –

    There’s more to being a ML pitcher than the quality of one’s stuff. Things like knowing how to pitch, setting up hitters, esp. the 2nd and 3rd time thru the lineup; holding runners on; fielding your position; and how to pitch when you don’t have your good stuff working.

    If these guys are as billed, then they may well not have experienced bad outings, or how to pitch out of trouble.

    As we all know, these are important parts of being a ML pitcher. If it were the KC Royals we’re talking about, you can make a case to let them learn on the ML level, and accept the risk that they’re going to have rough times. I don’t know if that would work in NY.

  67. J. Alfred Prufrock February 17th, 2011 at 11:23 am

    JAP stop that stop that right now because you’re making too much sense
    ///
    Dude,I have a feeling I’m going to be watching this kid mow ‘em down in someone ELSE’s rotation some day soon.I’ll cheer for him,tho.I could not even look at most of the trashing in here of this kid over the last several days.But the kid’s comments were eye-popping and eyebrow raising.I just hope the Killer B generation does not get d i c k e d around like Joba Chamberlain has.I’m checkin out for now. good one, all.

  68. Cashmoney February 17th, 2011 at 11:25 am

    B&B crew had combined 10 starts in AA? Let them grow. Mitre is a ML pitcher. I like to see those two grow into competent to good ML starters. More innings, more comp in higher minor, more everything. Esp betance who had just come back from a serious injury.

  69. blake February 17th, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Joe,

    True and that’s probably one reason they are taking it slow ….in addition to building their innings.

    Also you raise a point about expectations when they do arrive. Folks have to understand that they are going to struggle some at first and maybe for awhile……just as with Hughes that’s part of development and it needs to be both accepted and expected by Yankee fans.

  70. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Napoli is going to catch

    Yes Cabrera is upgrading 1B but they are weakening 3 other spots.

    Going from Cruz to Borbon/Murphy is a pretty enormous downgrade.

    Pretty sure Holland is going to get a spot in the rotation and given his minor league track record I could easily see him doing very well.

    It doesn’t matter what Young is getting paid, he’s still an impact player at DH and if they are getting Cabrera back they are adding payroll, not reducing it.

    It’s just way too much for Texas to give up, this trade will never ever happen.

  71. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 11:26 am

    According to Joel Sherman the Yankees are still maintaining interest in Kevin Millwood but the price is too high (he wants around 4 or 5 mil).

    I’m all for giving Girardi options but I think at this point Freddy Garcia and Ivan Nova are fine for the back of the rotation. Not sure I would bother with Millwood – though he is more of a sure thing health wise than is Garcia.

  72. Pat M. February 17th, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Just came back from the beach where the waves are 12-14 feet and the lads on their surf boards are holding their own……..Back in the early days of rotisserie baseball I always plucked a youngster such as Kirby Puckett, Juan Samuel, Mike Piazza, Frank Thomas as that became my objective every spring…..In those days in was Street and Smith and The Sporting news and taking notes on the young blue chippers and follow them from year to year until they made the club…….Always a risk of course but with all the information just a click away it’s less work in some regards but too much info is a hindrance in my mind……..Still no over under lines from Vegas yet……

  73. J. Alfred Prufrock February 17th, 2011 at 11:27 am

    and how to pitch when you don’t have your good stuff working.

    If these guys are as billed, then they may well not have experienced bad outings, or how to pitch out of trouble.

    ///
    it’s the reason dominant young pitching prospects have trouble from the stretch.even now,Betances is learning how not to throw the ball over the baseman’s head. (in his case,this won’t be a lingering problem because for a big guy he’s also very agile).no surprise about these boys staying put for now,they don’t have enough innings yet. afternoon,all.

  74. Doreen February 17th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    Running out, but, Sheff HOF? Yes. Not first ballot though. (Only because those who vote for such things place importance on first ballot status.)

  75. Joe from Long Island February 17th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    If Freddy has one or two good outings, watch Millwood’s price come down.

  76. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 11:26 am
    Napoli is going to catch

    Yes Cabrera is upgrading 1B but they are weakening 3 other spots.

    Going from Cruz to Borbon/Murphy is a pretty enormous downgrade.

    Pretty sure Holland is going to get a spot in the rotation and given his minor league track record I could easily see him doing very well.

    It doesn’t matter what Young is getting paid, he’s still an impact player at DH and if they are getting Cabrera back they are adding payroll, not reducing it.

    It’s just way too much for Texas to give up, this trade will never ever happen.

    ——————–

    We agree the trade will never happen but we disagree on a few points:

    1. Napoli won’t be their regular catcher – Yorvit Torrealba is also there and he’s a vastly better catcher than Napoli, plus they have Mark Trenor behind him.

    2. You can’t make the jump that a guy who was a middle reliever last year is not only going to make their rotation but be their best pitcher this year.

    3. If you want a player of Miguel Cabrera’s talent/age you’re going to have to give up something of quality for him – such as Nelson Cruz.

    4. Michael Young’s contract vastly matters – he’s not a particularly good fielder anymore – doesn’t hit for the kind of power you want from a DH – thus he’s not really an impact player anymore.

    If anything I think doing this deal would be selling low from Detroit’s standpoint.

  77. West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 11:31 am

    Joba was brought up because they needed him and he did so well, it would have made no sense to send him back down. They managed his innings to protect his arm, he got hurt. The Yankees can’t be blamed for Joba not living up to his potential; Joba bears that responsibility. Adversity is a part of baseball IMO, and you get the big bucks for figuring out how to deal with it.

    He’s still relatively young. If his shoulder isn’t too bad, (the effects of the injury) I think he has a chance to have a good career. But he just has to do it, excuses are like, well, you know.

    An aside, Joba’s weight is a national story, it’s not just this blog or the NY papers. USA Today, Yahoo Sports, etc., all covered it.

  78. Cashmoney February 17th, 2011 at 11:33 am

    my guess is Phelps will be the first to call up as a starter option, if he stays course and healthy.

  79. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 11:33 am

    Moving on from a hypothetical trade that has Patrick all in knots

    RAB has thoughts on Andrew Brackman:

    http://riveraveblues.com/2011/.....eam-43299/

  80. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 11:34 am

    Mell February 17th, 2011 at 11:19 am

    “Brennan Boesch reminds me of a young Darryl Strawberry…would pick him as a sleeper in draft.if available in round 8 or above”

    Strawberry ever hit .163 with a .458 OPS over the last 3 months of a season while getting regular at bats?
    ________
    Growing pains…kid has great tools.

  81. Mell February 17th, 2011 at 11:35 am

    Chip:

    Consider the following as it relates to Cabrera:

    1) Why exactly would Detroit be trading him?
    2) Does the answer to #1 suggest to you they’d be trading from a position of strength?

  82. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 11:35 am

    Cashmoney February 17th, 2011 at 11:33 am
    my guess is Phelps will be the first to call up as a starter option, if he stays course and healthy.

    ————-

    I would also say he’s the most likely one to give Nova and Garcia a serious challenge.

  83. tampayank February 17th, 2011 at 11:36 am

    “Pat M. February 17th, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Just came back from the beach where the waves are 12-14 feet and the lads on their surf boards are holding their own…….”

    nice what beach, out west I assume?

  84. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Chip,

    1. No he’s not. They are both about average with Napoli being a vastly better hitter.

    2. I didn’t say he’s going to be the best pitcher, I said he has the potential to be. You don’t give that kind of guy away as a throw-in.

    3. Well obviously but you don’t give up Cruz and 3 other big pieces for Cabrera. And it’s not like Cabrera is a huge upgrade over Cruz.

    4. Yes he is an impact player, his bat plays at 1B or DH. In either case his fielding won’t matter.

    Dude you are crazy if you think this deal is in any way fair for Texas.

  85. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Mell February 17th, 2011 at 11:35 am
    Chip:

    Consider the following as it relates to Cabrera:

    1) Why exactly would Detroit be trading him?
    2) Does the answer to #1 suggest to you they’d be trading from a position of strength?

    —————

    1. Detroit wouldn’t trade him which is why I labled this a hypothetical and agreed with everyone who said that Detroit wasn’t going to trade him.

    2. In that hypothetical though no – they would not be in a position of strength but nor is Dombrowski the sort to give away a player for 50 cents on the dollar – whatever Cabrera’s problems off the field are – there is no denying that he is already a superstar and is entering the prime of what could easily be a Hall of Fame career.

  86. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Moving on from a hypothetical trade that has Patrick all in knots

    Was that necessary?

  87. Against All Odds February 17th, 2011 at 11:38 am

    # J. Alfred Prufrock February 17th, 2011 at 11:23 am

    JAP stop that stop that right now because you’re making too much sense
    ///
    Dude,I have a feeling I’m going to be watching this kid mow ‘em down in someone ELSE’s rotation some day soon.I’ll cheer for him,tho.I could not even look at most of the trashing in here of this kid over the last several days.But the kid’s comments were eye-popping and eyebrow raising.I just hope the Killer B generation does not get d i c k e d around like Joba Chamberlain has.I’m checkin out for now. good one, all.

    —————————-

    Yea I can see it happening too. I can see him going to another club and turning it around because I feel his time with the club has come and gone. If that’s the case than a fresh start maybe in order. It’s clear they have no faith in him and we can say that maybe he has lost faith in the Yankees as well. Whether he’s with the team or not I will continue to root for him.

    Take care JAP

  88. yankeefeminista February 17th, 2011 at 11:39 am

    West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 11:31 am
    Joba was brought up because they needed him and he did so well, it would have made no sense to send him back down. They managed his innings to protect his arm, he got hurt. The Yankees can’t be blamed for Joba not living up to his potential; Joba bears that responsibility. Adversity is a part of baseball IMO, and you get the big bucks for figuring out how to deal with it.

    He’s still relatively young. If his shoulder isn’t too bad, (the effects of the injury) I think he has a chance to have a good career. But he just has to do it, excuses are like, well, you know.

    An aside, Joba’s weight is a national story, it’s not just this blog or the NY papers. USA Today, Yahoo Sports, etc., all covered it.
    _______________
    Bottomline Joba had a mere 83.1 IP. Everyone and Nardi’s brother knew that Joba when Joba was drafted he had mechanical issues (2007.) Patience was preached, but it wasn’t practiced in spite of Joba’s ETA being 2009. He should have been in the minors, learning how to repeat his delivery and to refine his power stuff. However, suddenly Joba was up in the majors to stay in the very same year that he was supposed to be smoothing everything out in the minors. How do you blame the player for that??? You are going to blame the student for the teachers’ unequivocal inability to teach! That is rich.

  89. J. Alfred Prufrock February 17th, 2011 at 11:40 am

    West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 11:31 am
    Joba was brought up because they needed him and he did so well, it would have made no sense to send him back down. They managed his innings to protect his arm, he got hurt.

    ///
    the more you talk about this,the more uneducated and naive you sound when it comes to pitcher development.do you not understand this guy had less than 84 IP in the minors??It made no sense to send him down??Sorry,but you just sound like you’re out of your mind,or on some automatic pilot with no regard for reality.even the yanks admit delivery repetition has always been a sore spot for this talented kid.his work in the minors with Aldred,though brief,was very successful.the yanks never sent him back to doctor fix-it.that’s indefensible.especially when he first ran into problems as a starter.I think you need to learn about what it takes to develop homegrown starting pitching before you sail into these lectures about Chamberlain.Honestly,you don’t understand it a whit.

  90. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 11:40 am

    Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 11:38 am
    Moving on from a hypothetical trade that has Patrick all in knots

    Was that necessary?

    —————-

    No.

  91. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 11:43 am

    Great news for Yankee fans – Adrian Gonzalez is using Mets’ doctor as his primary regarding his shoulder. Given how the Mets have (mis)handled injuries under this quack that’s a lot like going to William “the Fridge” Perry for diet advice.

  92. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 11:44 am

    Which lineup is better?

    Andrus SS
    Young DH
    Cruz RF
    Hamilton LF
    Beltre 3B
    Kinsler 2B
    Napoli C
    Moreland 1B
    Borbon CF

    or

    Andrus SS
    Kinsler 2B
    Cabrera 1B
    Hamilton LF
    Beltre 3B
    Napoli C
    Murphy RF
    Torrealba C
    Borbon CF

    plus a weakened pitching staff

    Honestly, I’d take number 1.

  93. J. Alfred Prufrock February 17th, 2011 at 11:45 am

    Yea I can see it happening too. I can see him going to another club and turning it around because I feel his time with the club has come and gone. If that’s the case than a fresh start maybe in order. It’s clear they have no faith in him and we can say that maybe he has lost faith in the Yankees as well. Whether he’s with the team or not I will continue to root for him.

    Take care JAP
    ///
    AAO – LOL I’m gettin sucked in again (ever see A Pocketful of Miracles? Peter Falk’s character keeps tryin to get Glen Ford’s to this mob meeting with Big Boss Darcy from Chicago,and Ford keeps getting side-tracked with the saga of a street urchin whose apples he thinks bring him luck. Falk is always howling: “Dude, you’re gettin HOOKED again!” That’s me – can’t stay off the Joba sauce!).yea I think you’re right,& for the first time,we’re seeing Joba fight back some.in a strange way,I think that’ll help his pitching.When a man tells his truth,he gains integrity and becomes centered.I am now seriously out.catch ya later,man.

  94. Erin February 17th, 2011 at 11:45 am

    eboland11 Jeter, Granderson, Swisher, Golson, Curtis, Jones among position players getting work in at minor league complex

  95. 38HotDogs February 17th, 2011 at 11:47 am

    Pat are you down in the South Bay? We have 6 -7 feet in the 805 today, made for a fun morning

  96. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 11:48 am

    The deal with WCYF is that he has a running fued over whether Joba will amount to anything or not with people on his old blog, and he still tries to use his comments about Joba as a way to stir debate with those posters. He has been brutal on Joba over there, and even questioned whether he had a million dollar arm. (Hence yesterday’s comment from him about that.)

    At the same time, he tries to not look like a total fool (which is how he appeared on the Daily News) by stating he thinks Joba can recover and make it.

    Bottom line: He is trolling again. Ignore him. I am.

  97. Pat M. February 17th, 2011 at 11:48 am

    tampayank……Newport Beach Ca……..Chip, I think we’re definitely going to see Brackman this summer baring an injury….He’s going going to open some eyes during the exhibition season

  98. Ys Guy February 17th, 2011 at 11:49 am

    if joba is going to become great on someone else’s team cashman better trade him soon as in during ST.

    because my boy jah-buddha is going to be mowing them down this year and by july will be regaining his ‘heir apparent’ status and all that mojo he had back in ’07.

  99. Cashmoney February 17th, 2011 at 11:50 am

    I wish Cash had pursuited Kuroda.

  100. West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 11:50 am

    I disagree about Joba and so does the Yankee organization. You are not saying anything that they didn’t know and evaluate. Decisions were made based on the needs of the big-league club at the time and what they perceived as Joba’s reality. After 2007 if he had been sent down for an extended period of time, fans would have come unglued. (not that it should matter what fans say). If Joba hadn’t hurt his shoulder, which I believe is the main problem with him, and he had gone on to pitch like an All-Star, no one would be spinning it this way.

  101. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 11:51 am

    Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 11:44 am
    Which lineup is better?

    Andrus SS
    Young DH
    Cruz RF
    Hamilton LF
    Beltre 3B
    Kinsler 2B
    Napoli C
    Moreland 1B
    Borbon CF

    or

    Andrus SS
    Kinsler 2B
    Cabrera 1B
    Hamilton LF
    Beltre 3B
    Napoli C
    Murphy RF
    Torrealba C
    Borbon CF

    plus a weakened pitching staff

    Honestly, I’d take number 1.

    ——————

    Honestly I would take number 2 and I don’t know that the pitching staff would be and neither do you since we don’t know what role Derek Holland will actually play.

    In the end, this was a hypothetical topic

  102. West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 11:51 am

    Bojo/Brad, no you were the one that made the statement that Joba had a million dollar arm, along with your prediction that he would beat out Hughes for the number five starters position last year and win fifteen games.

  103. West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    I’m in the South Bay and the waves are good.

  104. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 11:55 am

    In the end, this was a hypothetical topic

    I know, and it’s fun to talk about.

    Sounds like you want to end the conversation but trading Holland is like trading a high-end pitching prospect like Banuelos or Betances. And if you look at both lineups, in lineup #2 there are 3 spots that are weakened whereas in lineup 1 only Borbon is a weakness.

  105. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 11:57 am

    The other thing to understand about WCYF (and I’ll drop this after this) is that he feels these blogs are a competitive event where he has to engage others and beat them in debate. He is not real good at logic debating, so he resorts to lies, taking things out of context, misquotes, and of course his alter egos/multiple personalities (BobbyCA or Vineyard Yankee) to ridicule the other poster.

    Trust me…you folks here haven’t seen anywhere near the worst of him.

    I won’t be engaging you today or ever WCYF…leave it alone.

  106. Against All Odds February 17th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    # J. Alfred Prufrock February 17th, 2011 at 11:45 am

    Yea I can see it happening too. I can see him going to another club and turning it around because I feel his time with the club has come and gone. If that’s the case than a fresh start maybe in order. It’s clear they have no faith in him and we can say that maybe he has lost faith in the Yankees as well. Whether he’s with the team or not I will continue to root for him.

    Take care JAP
    ///
    AAO – LOL I’m gettin sucked in again (ever see A Pocketful of Miracles? Peter Falk’s character keeps tryin to get Glen Ford’s to this mob meeting with Big Boss Darcy from Chicago,and Ford keeps getting side-tracked with the saga of a street urchin whose apples he thinks bring him luck. Falk is always howling: “Dude, you’re gettin HOOKED again!” That’s me – can’t stay off the Joba sauce!).yea I think you’re right,& for the first time,we’re seeing Joba fight back some.in a strange way,I think that’ll help his pitching.When a man tells his truth,he gains integrity and becomes centered.I am now seriously out.catch ya later,man.

    —————————————–

    I have never seen Pocketful of Miracles but it sounds good. I have to check it out.

    Yea I need to lay off the Joba sauce as well but it’s so addictive lol.

    If he is fighting back hopefully he takes that edge to the mound. I want to see the Joba that shrugged his shoulders after giving up his 1st run in the majors. I want that attitude :D

  107. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 11:59 am

    Here’s the thing on Joba:

    He does have a multi-million dollar arm. That’s what makes him so bloody frustrating.

    If he was some talentless hack we wouldn’t talk about him – he could be discarded as easily as Chris Britton or Jonathan Albaladejo – but the stuff is (or at least was) there – we all clearly saw it.

    What chaps my bottom is the fact that we’ve not seen him take a single step forward in his career – our first look at him was also his high point – since then he has been slipping more and more down hill in his career and in his role with the team and has yet to show anything that suggests a turnaround is in the cards.

    There is nothing more frustrating to me as a fan than seeing wasted talent because these guys are living my dream. I can only wish that I had Joba’s talent and the opportunity to do what he does and (for any number of reasons) he seems to be letting his chance slip away.

    I do think a change of organization would benefit him – but I don’t think he’ll ever be as good as he was when he first came up and I don’t think he’ll ever live up to the hype that surrounded him as a prospect.

  108. yankeefeminista February 17th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    Pat M., I definitely think we see Brackman. It was interesting to read interviews with Newman, and Nardi recently, saying that they thought he might make some appearances as an SP (not just out of the BP) this year b/c his slider has been good and would be his 3rd pitch. Therefore, he wouldn’t miss not having the still developing changeup. He will likely coming out of the BP, but based on the above, I am wondering if he isn’t a dark horse to start. This ST is going to be a lot of fun, so many kids to watch.

  109. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 11:55 am
    In the end, this was a hypothetical topic

    I know, and it’s fun to talk about.

    Sounds like you want to end the conversation but trading Holland is like trading a high-end pitching prospect like Banuelos or Betances. And if you look at both lineups, in lineup #2 there are 3 spots that are weakened whereas in lineup 1 only Borbon is a weakness.
    ———-

    We’re just going to have to agree to disagree on who would come out the winner.

    End of the day – when a trade has no clear winner that’s how you know it was a fair deal.

  110. Vineyard Yankee February 17th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 11:48 am

    But of course you are Brad / George / BradCompany / brads77, before you get exposed for who you really are. When will you be posting that stellar MLB prediction list that you’re famous for ? If you need a copy of last years let me know, i’ll be glad to oblige.

  111. Ys Guy February 17th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    two veteran ballplayers checking out the pitching phenom:

    first guy chuckes “man, that kid looks alot fatter every year!” adjusting the red cap on his head..
    .
    “he’ll never develop with those kinds of work habits,” his buddy assures him. “I hear they’re gonna just sell his contract .”

    and so a chubby kid called babe takes his leave of boston…

  112. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    We’re just going to have to agree to disagree on who would come out the winner.

    Sure.

    I don’t think Detroit would trade Cabrera anyways, he’s their franchise player. I suspect he will go into rehab or something for a few weeks and join the team at the end of April and everyone will forget about this stuff.

  113. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    Chip–

    Do you think MAYBE his backward slide had something to do with his pitching coach, who:

    1) Insisted he pitch to contact and throw sinkers so he could go deeper in games–thus changing his entire pitching approach from aggressive to passive
    2) Made him adjust his hand positioning and mechanics–which Joba says lost him some velocity compared to what he used to do
    3) Showed no support or confidence in him, nor fought for him to be in SR?

    I do. I think (as many have stated here) that he was totally mishandled. Thank God Eiland is gone….now let’s see what he has.

  114. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    Ys Guy February 17th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
    two veteran ballplayers checking out the pitching phenom:

    first guy chuckes “man, that kid looks alot fatter every year!” adjusting the red cap on his head..
    .
    “he’ll never develop with those kinds of work habits,” his buddy assures him. “I hear they’re gonna just sell his contract .”

    and so a chubby kid called babe takes his leave of boston…
    ————–

    That’s kind of like saying that any kid who gets cut from their Varsity basketball team can grow up to be Michael Jordan.

    It’s an obvious extreme example.

  115. Pat M. February 17th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    WCYF……..I still think Joba has a million dollar arm, however I’ve had concerns ( conditioning ) about him ever since I saw him in Anaheim back in July 09……..You in the Palos Verde / Torrance area or in Hermosa / Redondo Beach / Manhattan Beach area ???

  116. West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    Bojo/Brad. Care to defend your proposal to trade Robinson Cano for Aaron Hill?

  117. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 12:04 pm
    Chip–

    Do you think MAYBE his backward slide had something to do with his pitching coach, who:

    1) Insisted he pitch to contact and throw sinkers so he could go deeper in games–thus changing his entire pitching approach from aggressive to passive
    2) Made him adjust his hand positioning and mechanics–which Joba says lost him some velocity compared to what he used to do
    3) Showed no support or confidence in him, nor fought for him to be in SR?

    I do. I think (as many have stated here) that he was totally mishandled. Thank God Eiland is gone….now let’s see what he has.

    —————————

    I agree Joba was mishandled but you can’t lay it all on the org.

    1. They were trying to get him to pitch to contact because he was running up very high pitchcounts early on trying to strike everyone out.

    2. They altered his mechanics because he got hurt

    3. They had no faith in him as a starter because they saw that his stuff wasn’t translating, he wasn’t able to go deep into games, and he had gotten hurt.

  118. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    Bojo/Brad. Care to defend your proposal to trade Robinson Cano for Aaron Hill?

    Ouch when did that happen?

    On the same topic I’d love to hear Mike and the Mad Dog try to defend their stated preference of Pedroia over Cano. Granted, I think they said that a few years ago

  119. Ys Guy February 17th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    chip, it was a” parable’. totally made up.

    the kind of thing you tell the fat kid who struck out 4 times.

    (dont know how to do the winky emoticon)

  120. West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    Pat M. February 17th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    WCYF……..I still think Joba has a million dollar arm, however I’ve had concerns ( conditioning ) about him ever since I saw him in Anaheim back in July 09……..You in the Palos Verde / Torrance area or in Hermosa / Redondo Beach / Manhattan Beach area ???

    **************

    Pat – I understand that sentiment. I know it’s simple conjecture on my part, but personally I believe that the shoulder issue is what has retarded Joba’s advancement. I don’t think it’s presently an acute injury, but I suspect something changed physiologically that affected his velocity. Specifically the endurance needed to be an effective starter. Just my opinion, I’m not a doctor.

    Yes, I am in the Manhhatan/Hermosa/Redonda area.

  121. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    Chip–

    If I had a kid that could throw like Joba did, I would let him pitch 4 innings and air it out rather than change his pitching approach. He was learning to pitch up here and would eventually figure out how to go longer. Changing him as a pitcher was moronic and almost criminal.

    How do you know they changed his mechanics because he got hurt? Source?

    Remember that when Joba returned fromn ASB in 2009, he had 2-3 great outings…when asked why, he said because he went back to pitching how he used to. Then they put the clamp down on him.

    That stuff translated well enough to be a #3 on the staff, and certainly no worse than #5.

  122. PhiltheThrill February 17th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    Sheff probably won’t get in quickly because of the PED stuff and Bags was a roider.

  123. Against All Odds February 17th, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    Chip has a point the blame goes to both parties involved in the whole Joba thing.

  124. Ys Guy February 17th, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    i thought somebody broke the lohud again…

  125. pat February 17th, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    Girardi in teaching mode today

    http://www.daylife.com/search/.....?q=yankees

  126. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    Bojo/Brad. Care to defend your proposal to trade Robinson Cano for Aaron Hill?

    Ouch when did that happen?
    __________________
    In June 2009, I said that Cano needed to learn to hit with runners in scoring position in order to take his game up a notch. I said there were 4 better 2B in baseball that I would take over him, including Utley, Pedroia, Hill, and Kinsler. I said if Cano couldn’t learn to hit w RISP, I would deal him for one of those players.

    What WCYF always forgets to mention is that I also said Cano was coming into his prime and still had time to learn it, and would be a great player if he got by that hurdle.

    He also forgets to mention that in winter of 2007, I pushed for Zack Greinke acquisition (before his breakout season), suggested the acquisition of Josh Hamilton, Adrian Beltre, Josh Johsnon, and David DeJesus in fall of 2008 (before their breakout years).

    He also fails to mention all the dumb comments he made.

    As I said, he views the blog as a competition, and tries to irritate people to argue with him so he can lie, use VY to ridicule, and then proclaim himself victor. We saw it too much on Daily News that we finally ran him off the board.

    I am not going to get involved in that here. You folks are already on to him and can deal with his idiocy yourselves.

  127. Triple Short of a Cycle February 17th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Patrick,

    Francessa liked Pedroia because of his “gamer” mentality. Whatever that means. I think Mike is too busy now teaching everyone about derivatives and split strike theory

  128. Against All Odds February 17th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    # BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    Chip–

    If I had a kid that could throw like Joba did, I would let him pitch 4 innings and air it out rather than change his pitching approach. He was learning to pitch up here and would eventually figure out how to go longer. Changing him as a pitcher was moronic and almost criminal.

    How do you know they changed his mechanics because he got hurt? Source?

    Remember that when Joba returned fromn ASB in 2009, he had 2-3 great outings…when asked why, he said because he went back to pitching how he used to. Then they put the clamp down on him.

    That stuff translated well enough to be a #3 on the staff, and certainly no worse than #5.

    ————————————-

    Those 3 starts after the break were great. He went deep in games, threw hard, and attacked the zone. If they could do it over I wonder if they would just let him throw until he reached his innings limit and then pitched him out of the pen instead of skipping him around and then creating the 3 inning relief starts.

  129. Tom in N.J. February 17th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    When Joba first came up, i thought it was his destiny to be a 70s style ‘fireman’ like Goose and Sparky.

  130. West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    No Bojo – you didn’t. You specifically suggested the Yankees trade Cano for Aaron Hill.

  131. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    WCYF–

    Bye. Ignoring you….go pester someone else.

  132. Against All Odds February 17th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    #

    # Triple Short of a Cycle February 17th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Patrick,

    Francessa liked Pedroia because of his “gamer” mentality. Whatever that means. I think Mike is too busy now teaching everyone about derivatives and split strike theory

    ———————————————————–

    You can tell the Madoff thing is starting to get to him. “We’ll have more of this talk tomorrow…in this never ending story”

  133. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    Against All Odds February 17th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    If they could do it over I wonder if they would just let him throw until he reached his innings limit and then pitched him out of the pen instead of skipping him around and then creating the 3 inning relief starts.
    _______________
    In hindsight, probably yes. But in hindsight, they should have done a lot of things differently.

  134. BIG AL February 17th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 12:23 pm
    No Bojo – you didn’t. You specifically suggested the Yankees trade Cano for Aaron Hill.

    ***************************************
    Please post BoJo’s entire post where he said that so we can all judge if he indeed said what you claim. If you don’t have it, then it’s he said – he said, nothing more. Perhaps your alter ego has the post.

  135. Vineyard Yankee February 17th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    Bojo/Brad. Care to defend your proposal to trade Robinson Cano for Aaron Hill?


    Ouch when did that happen?

    =================

    There is a whole list of crazy stuff like that from Bojo / Brad. That’s why I asked for his yearly prediction listing earlier. Some genuine pearls before the 2010 post season such as:

    ‘Joba will eventually be the #1 starter in play-offs and lead Yankees to many WS championships. His stuff is as good as Beckettt’s, and better than any other play-off pitcher’.

  136. Against All Odds February 17th, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    # BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    Against All Odds February 17th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    If they could do it over I wonder if they would just let him throw until he reached his innings limit and then pitched him out of the pen instead of skipping him around and then creating the 3 inning relief starts.
    _______________
    In hindsight, probably yes. But in hindsight, they should have done a lot of things differently.

    ————————–

    Agreed

  137. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Big Al–

    There were several posts where I mentioned it. I’m sure he will cherry pick one where I didn’t talk about Cano’s upside. I’ll see if I can post that here.

  138. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    And like clockwork, here is Vineyard Yankee serving as his wing man. No matter what time of day or night, he is always lurking when WCYF is online.

  139. CCBiggs February 17th, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    Ah, yes, the “catching-rich” Yankee organization that had to go out and sign a reclamation project like Russell Martin to be the starting catcher (!!) this year.

    Don’t believe the hype.

  140. Pat M. February 17th, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    Man it’s too early for all this crap…Just let it go guys as this isn’t some contest here….I was on the record last spring saying that Randy Winn was going to be a good fit for the Bombers….Ouch….I also believed that AJ Burnett was going to find himself finally upon coming to The Bronx….Ouch……Ah, a reprieve as the good pool service have arrived

  141. UnKnown February 17th, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    Can’t wait to watch the first spring training game on my B-Day the 26th. Should be fun.

    2 questions.
    1. How is it determined which catchers the pitchers throw to?
    2. When does the rest of the team report?

    Thanks

  142. West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    In light of all the attention Rothschild is getting, understandably, the entire Eiland era won’t go away peacefully into the night. He’s getting a lot of blame, much of which I suspect is Monday morning quarterbacking and piling on. Just knowing the way these things work. I always thought coaches got too much credit and blame.

    Eiland coached for five years in the Yankees minor league system and three years for the Yankees. During his stint in the minors, Eiland oversaw the development of Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, and Ian Kennedy. How bad could he have been?

  143. BIG AL February 17th, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
    Big Al–

    There were several posts where I mentioned it. I’m sure he will cherry pick one where I didn’t talk about Cano’s upside. I’ll see if I can post that here.

    **************************************
    BoJo -

    I find it hard to believe the this guys so obsessed with you, and others, that he keeps track of your posts, something not quite right with people that do that.
    And once more you’re correct about VY, he’s always there to do the hatchet work, almost as if they are one in the same person, lol.

  144. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    Here is one of the posts that I discussed it

    http://www.nydailynews.com/blo.....tml?page=3

    Mon, 2009-11-02 10:37 – brads77

    I had a bad night last night. Computer crashed in middle of game. Predictions off badly. Joba finally took over the 8th and then blew the lead. But I am thrilled we won, so it is all okay by me.

    Years from now, I wonder if they will call what Damon did something like “Damon’s Demonic Dash?”

    Since so many asked, I did want to follow up with the 6 2B players that I mentioned I would take over Cano earlier in the year, so here it is:

    1) Ben Zobrist — Switch hitter, better power, better speed, better OBP and very versatile–keeps focused
    2) Chase Utley–Smarter player, better in clutch, better OBP, power, speed
    3) Aaron Hill–better glove, more power, hustles
    4) Dustin Pedroia–I hate the little ***, but he hustles and is smart, and is clutch

    In a one-for-one trade, I would take any of the above over Cano.

    And earlier in the year, I would have also taken the following.
    5) Orlando Hudson–better leadership and hustle
    6) Howie Kendrick–I’ve been very impressed whenever I have seen him play

    These last two may be a wash at this point. Hudson would be attractive (and thus a wash) if we were to use Cano to trade and get something in return.

    I haven’t included any numbers, because to me, it isn’t about putting up the best numbers, it is about winning ball games. I think Cano dissappears with the game on the line. I remember only 2-3 big hits he had all year, versus dozens of rally-killing at bats. He doesn’t produce in the clutch, and therefore, I would take any of the 6 above over him.

    Now, don’t get me wrong. Cano has talent, and puts up better numbers at this stage of his career than Joe Morgan. But he hasn’t shown consistency, leadership, focus, and hustle. I fear he will turn into another Soriano–a talented player who doesn’t add much to his team.
    ___________________
    I’ll next post about where I said he is still coming into prime and may still learn to be more clutch.

  145. Cashmoney February 17th, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    Eiland who?

  146. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    Pat M. February 17th, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    Man it’s too early for all this crap…Just let it go guys as this isn’t some contest here
    ____________
    You’re right Pat…scr*w it. I don’t wish to be sucked into a conversation with that loser again.

  147. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    Pat M–

    PHOTOS or we won’t believe you have a pool.

  148. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    Bojo,

    No offense but the above post you copied is insane, even if you said it at the end of 2009. Even at that point in time I would have taken Utley over Cano, nobody else. Today, that is still the case.

  149. Tom in N.J. February 17th, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Can you all go back to the DN blog and argue over there about who said what and who’s who?

    Nobody here really cares.

  150. West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    I’m sure Eiland was a good pitching coach, why would he have spent five years working with young pitchers in the minors and then get a promotion to the big club.

    I personally think that Eiland’s dismissal had nothing to do with his performance as a pitching coach and everything to do about a personal problem he had, that was tied in to his leave of absence.

  151. Mell February 17th, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    “Eiland coached for five years in the Yankees minor league system and three years for the Yankees. During his stint in the minors, Eiland oversaw the development of Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, and Ian Kennedy. How bad could he have been?”

    I agree that blaming Eiland for the shortcomings of some Yankees pitchers is simply bogus. It’s just excuse making, epsecially in the cases of Burnett and Chamberlain, who will find the biggest culprit for their respective issues in the nearest available mirror.

  152. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    HillPatrick February 17th, 2011 at 12:56 pm
    ________________
    In hindsight, Cano proved to make the jump to the next step.

    But back then, you might recall:
    1) Zobrist had the highest WAR in majors with an insane 7.1
    2) Hill seemed to be coming into his own as a Jeff Kent type player
    3) Pedroia was a year removed from MVP and a Gold Glover and Silver Slugger

  153. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    Tom in N.J. February 17th, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Can you all go back to the DN blog and argue over there about who said what and who’s who?

    Nobody here really cares.
    ______________
    I agree–which is why I didn’t use that account name here. I don’t wish to engage in troll wars again….just want to discuss baseball where it isn’t a competition.

  154. Against All Odds February 17th, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    # West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    I’m sure Eiland was a good pitching coach, why would he have spent five years working with young pitchers in the minors and then get a promotion to the big club.

    I personally think that Eiland’s dismissal had nothing to do with his performance as a pitching coach and everything to do about a personal problem he had, that was tied in to his leave of absence.

    ———————————————————-

    That’s what Ken Daividoff told Lori Rubinson. “We all know why Eiland’s not here. It had to do with his behavior not the performance of the pitchers”

  155. Pat M. February 17th, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    Bojo…..I think you’d rather have a photo of the college coed that helps ???? I need to figure out how to do the whole paste copy thing before I figure out how to use my phone camera

  156. PhiltheThrill February 17th, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    In the absence of news there will be BLAME.

  157. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    Pat M. February 17th, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    Bojo…..I think you’d rather have a photo of the college coed that helps ???? I need to figure out how to do the whole paste copy thing before I figure out how to use my phone camera
    _______________
    You figured out the code!

  158. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    Mell February 17th, 2011 at 1:00 pm
    “Eiland coached for five years in the Yankees minor league system and three years for the Yankees. During his stint in the minors, Eiland oversaw the development of Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, and Ian Kennedy. How bad could he have been?”

    I agree that blaming Eiland for the shortcomings of some Yankees pitchers is simply bogus. It’s just excuse making, epsecially in the cases of Burnett and Chamberlain, who will find the biggest culprit for their respective issues in the nearest available mirror.

    —————————-

    Yankees shouldn’t have jerked Joba around

    Joba should have taken/shown more initiative in improving himself after the initial debut.

    There’s plenty of blame to go around.

    For what it’s worth – I’ve never understood why the top man in the organization when it comes to pitching is a guy who has failed miserably as a pitching coach on every team he has been with. There has to be a better option for that job than Nardi Contreras.

  159. Vineyard Yankee February 17th, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    Wow !

  160. Bronx Jeers February 17th, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    E Boland

    With exception of Nova, Girardi said Takns “looking toward the veteran guys a little bit more” for back end rotation spots.

    —————————————–

    That sounds about right.

  161. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    But back then, you might recall:
    1) Zobrist had the highest WAR in majors with an insane 7.1
    2) Hill seemed to be coming into his own as a Jeff Kent type player
    3) Pedroia was a year removed from MVP and a Gold Glover and Silver Slugger

    Oh trust me, I have a good memory. I remember how good Zobrist and Hill were in 2009 but you can’t just look at 1 year and declare they are better players. Cano, unlike Zobrist and Hill has shown an extended period of success and he’s only getting better.

    Anyways this is kind of a silly argument, we are talking about how good we THOUGHT Cano was. Who cares? Now we KNOW he’s one of the best 2B in the league.

  162. Ys Guy February 17th, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    now that we’ve chewed up and spit out what’s left of the pitchers….

    i can’t wait till the hitters show up!!!

  163. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 17th, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    Bojo, I don’t see why you should need to defend yourself over anything you said or didn’t say. On the other hand, there are enough posters who have called into question the sagacity/sanity of just about every post of West Coast Red Sux Vineyard that I think most people can see that the mutiples were either hatched somewhere (literally and/or figuratively) or beamed in from another galaxie/team.

    Spend your time here productively. That would definitely exclude dealing with that lunacy. It seems you had to do enough of it over at the other site.

    :)

  164. West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    Chip – The Nardi Contreras situation has been a puzzlement to me to. He must have pictures.

  165. Bronx Jeers February 17th, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    “Takns” = Yanks

    Typo of the year?

    :lol:

  166. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 17th, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    “Eiland oversaw the development of Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, and Ian Kennedy. How bad could he have been?”

    Maybe he’s more effective with minor league development than major league development?

  167. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
    Chip – The Nardi Contreras situation has been a puzzlement to me to. He must have pictures.

    ————

    I always thought that the organization’s best move would be to give Dave Duncan a small vault’s worth of money to do the job.

  168. Shame Spencer February 17th, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    I still can’t get over the double poster situation that constantly comes up here..

    At least its better than the pre-registration days when the blog had some sort of sick, body snatcher feel to it.

  169. Ys Guy February 17th, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    johan santana on francessa

    love this guy!

  170. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 17th, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    And just how much help was Eiland actually giving Joba during ST last year when it was well known that he had been in contact with Hughes throughout the winter, giving him all kinds of tips on how to prepare for winning the 5th position in the rotation? You know the saying in the bible that you cannot worship two gods because you will grow to hate the one and love the other? Well you cannot worship two pitchers either, especially when you actively supporting one for a position in the rotation, and the other is in competition for that position.

    Joba has been jerked around more than once during this rodeo.

  171. Fran the original February 17th, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    Johan Santana is on with Francesa. He has no timetable for his return. I know some have thought about him as a possible trade target.

  172. West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    Chip – maybe Duncan not being a pitcher is a positive who knows. I’d love a Duncan for Contreras swap.

  173. Bronx Jeers February 17th, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    At least its better than the pre-registration days when the blog had some sort of sick, body snatcher feel to it.’

    ————————————————————————————-

    Yeah, now it’s got more of an X-Files vibe.

    “Trust No One…”

  174. Mell February 17th, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    “Well you cannot worship two pitchers either, especially when you actively supporting one for a position in the rotation, and the other is in competition for that position”

    Eiland was not alone on that one. The “competition” was a sham. Yankees as an organiztion went into spring training believing that was Hughes’ job to lose.

  175. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    Fran the original February 17th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
    Johan Santana is on with Francesa. He has no timetable for his return. I know some have thought about him as a possible trade target.

    —————

    I’ll be shocked if he pitches before August 1. Mets need to be very very careful with this guy.

  176. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 1:20 pm
    Chip – maybe Duncan not being a pitcher is a positive who knows. I’d love a Duncan for Contreras swap.

    ——————-

    I think you’ll have to wait for TLR to retire before it becomes a possibility.

    Another guy I would consider for the job would be Don Cooper if he ever leaves Ozzie’s staff.

  177. Bronx Jeers February 17th, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    Fran,

    I used to be a big fan of Johna but if the Yanks need to eventually trade for him, that would probably be an indication that the team is in big trouble.

  178. Jerkface February 17th, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    I wish Cash had pursuited Kuroda.

    Kuroda was re-signed within the exclusive signing period.

  179. Jerkface February 17th, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    rennan Boesch reminds me of a young Darryl Strawberry…would pick him as a sleeper in draft.if available in round 8 or above.

    You’re right, he probably will hit as well as a 14 year old Darryl Strawberry

    Doubtful, 14 year old Darryl Strawberry was hitting 450 shots with a wood bat on a backfield in Baltimore. At least according to this Scout book I read. Had it been the old days, the scout who found this kid would have hid him somewhere, but it was the days of the draft and soon word of Strawberry got out and the scout or his team had no shot due to draft position.

  180. LGY February 17th, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    Why would the Yankees want Duncan to come in here and turn their pitching prospects into cookie cutter pitch to contact groundball pitchers?

  181. Ys Guy February 17th, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    im still a big fan of johan’s i feel sorry for him that he’s a met. i’d love to see him on the yankees, but it seems very unlikely. still cc has an opt out, and then hank’s around, so you never know…
    i just like to watch him pitch. he has done an awesome job of pitching with decreased velocity and zero run support the last few years. very impressive.

  182. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    Off topic – but I can’t believe the Jays are giving Jose Bautista 5 years and $65 mil.

    All the good things I said about Anthopolous are cheerfully withdrawn.

  183. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 17th, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    Mell, you are absolutely right. Eiland was definitely not alone on that one. And the competition was a huge sham and frankly unfair to the other four who were told they had a shot. You know I am thinking about how Sergio Mitre was leading the pack for so much of the time and then all of a sudden faltered. Could Eiland have “seen something” and screwed with his mechanics? The truth of the matter is we don’t know. Joba really was out of whack. Did Eiland do something to help Joba go in that direction?

    They wanted Hughes. They found a way to have him “earn” the job.

    I think it sucks.

  184. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    LGY February 17th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
    Why would the Yankees want Duncan to come in here and turn their pitching prospects into cookie cutter pitch to contact groundball pitchers?

    —————

    As opposed to turning them into overhyped middle relievers you mean?

  185. Shame Spencer February 17th, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    Bronx – Agreed!!

    I don’t know what to think anymore. I’m still convinced one of these jokers is CR9!

    That being said, its still more interesting being here than listening to anything on WFAN.

  186. Jerkface February 17th, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Rich Harden already shut down with stiffness. Won’t pitch for a few weeks.

  187. Fran the original February 17th, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Chip, he is certainly talking like he’ll be out for quite a while.

    Bronx Jeers, I think the Yanks would be in bigger trouble if they need to trade for Ollie Perez ;)

  188. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    Jerkface February 17th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
    Rich Harden already shut down with stiffness. Won’t pitch for a few weeks.

    ————–

    The first official sign of baseball season – Rich Harden is hurt.

  189. Ys Guy February 17th, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    i used to be chien-ming vase. i hope nobody’s gonna so searching for stupid stuff i said on here 3 years ago.

  190. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 17th, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    I don’t know if they were available but both Jorge De La Rosa and Yovani Gallardo are pitchers I think would have been worth more than a looksee. Especially De La Rosa. When he’s on, which is just about all of the time (he struggled when he came back from the DL but the thinking is that he wasn’t really ready to come back but the Rocks were in the race and the needed him) his stuff is filthy.

  191. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    Fran the original February 17th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
    Chip, he is certainly talking like he’ll be out for quite a while.

    ———————

    It’s not like the Mets are going to win this year anyway – let him take his time and work his way back to 100% rather than hurt himself again trying to hurry back to participate in a lost season.

    Cashman looks like a bloody genius passing on this guy.

  192. Bronx Jeers February 17th, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    Some words from Mariano in Shpigel’s blog.

    http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/.....f=baseball

  193. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 17th, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    On the other hand, it boggles the imagination that you fantasy players are sharing so much information on who you intend to draft. You do realize you are playing against each other, no?

    The last thing I intend to do is let anyone know who I want to draft!

    :)

    ********************

    “I still can’t get over the double poster situation that constantly comes up here..

    At least its better than the pre-registration days when the blog had some sort of sick, body snatcher feel to it.”

    Shame I agree that it’s nowhere near as bad as when people didn’t have to register. Still the double poster situation has an unseemly feel to it. It’s especially unappealing when the double decides to “team up” against a particular poster.

    :)

    For some reason it doesn’t have a CR9 feel to me. And since Bojo and Big Al knew all of the players at the DN, I think their insights are probably right on.

  194. Jerkface February 17th, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    Why would the Yankees want Duncan to come in here and turn their pitching prospects into cookie cutter pitch to contact groundball pitchers?

    As opposed to turning them into overhyped middle relievers you mean?

    —-

    Dave Duncan is excellent at taking crappy pitchers and turning them into moderately efficient ground ball pitchers. The effect might last for one season or a few, but its fleeting. I like Duncan, but I wouldn’t want him instructing Hughes/Joba on spamming 2-seamers in the zone.

    For every Braden Looper and Joel Pineiro, everyone forgets the Reyes who he turned from a strike out machine in the minors into a pitcher whose K/9 decreased every year in STL and he was eventually traded.

  195. LGY February 17th, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    “As opposed to turning them into overhyped middle relievers you mean?”

    —————

    One pitcher defines the entire organization?

    Duncan’s calling card is to take guys off the scrap heap and make them serviceable. That doesn’t translate to dealing with high end strike out power pitchers.

  196. Bronx Jeers February 17th, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    Bronx Jeers, I think the Yanks would be in bigger trouble if they need to trade for Ollie Perez ;)

    ———————————————
    True, because it would not only mean that the team was in trouble but also that someone in charge had clearly gone insane. :wink:

  197. Ys Guy February 17th, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    francessa pushed that timetable quite a bit. santana said he started the 3 month program 2 weeks ago and the 6 weeks after that include the rehab. so with no setbacks, thats mid june.
    push that back a month and you start thinking about him just after the all star break with no major setbacks.

    he’s out on the trade deadline then, but might well be on the block this offseason.

  198. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    Dave Duncan would do good with guys like Ian Kennedy, Aceves, Mitre, Nova, but I wouldn’t want him to mess with Hughes, Chamberlain, Banuelos, Betances..

  199. Jerkface February 17th, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    The Cardinals best pitchers were a guy they got from Toronto who was a finished product and Wainwright who spent time as the closer, so maybe Joba should have moved from the bullpen to starting? :)

    The guys that Duncan gets actual media credit for were all garbage guys who he taught to pound zone with 2-seamers, trusting the defense because they didnt have the stuff to be strike out pitchers.

  200. Betsy February 17th, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    I have zero sympathy for Cabrera or anyone who gets behind the wheel drunk.

    GLove, you say some of us are bonkers after last night’s conversation -which ones? I thought it was a good conversation – no trolling, which was nice.

  201. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    LGY February 17th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
    “As opposed to turning them into overhyped middle relievers you mean?”

    —————

    One pitcher defines the entire organization?

    Duncan’s calling card is to take guys off the scrap heap and make them serviceable. That doesn’t translate to dealing with high end strike out power pitchers.

    ——————–

    Had 4 pitchers with high upside

    One is now an overhyped middle reliever
    One is out of baseball entirely
    One is a mediocre national league west pitcher
    One is Phil Hughes

    That’s not good.

    And you’re right – Dave Duncan is awful at developing pitchers – just look at Adam Wainwright, Jamie Garcia, the majority of the St. Louis bullpen and Chris Perez over in Cleveland…gosh why would anyone want a guy like that working in their organization.

  202. Jerkface February 17th, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    If we’re arguing Nardi vs Duncan (which is stupid, lets not do that) why would Nardi get dinged for Chamberlain but not get dap for Hughes/Kennedy/any other yankee pitcher that succeeds here or elsewhere? Duncan gets dinged for Reyes

  203. Jerkface February 17th, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    ust look at Adam Wainwright, Jamie Garcia, the majority of the St. Louis bullpen and Chris Perez over in Cleveland

    Jaime Garcia has pitched 1 season and has 400 minor league innings. Perhaps the minor league developers in the cardinals should get more credit for him than Duncan.

  204. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    Good analysis on Duncan. A guy I liked a lot was Curt Young…who did a great job in Oakland and now is in Boston.

  205. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    Jerkface February 17th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
    If we’re arguing Nardi vs Duncan (which is stupid, lets not do that) why would Nardi get dinged for Chamberlain but not get dap for Hughes/Kennedy/any other yankee pitcher that succeeds here or elsewhere? Duncan gets dinged for Reyes

    ——————

    Ian Kennedy is a mediocre pitcher in the NL West – there’s not much praise to be given for that.

    Other than Phil what other Yankee pitcher has been positively developed under Nardi?

  206. Betsy February 17th, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    Well it’s apparently not just Joba who’s overweight- per Cash and that WSJ article I posted earlier. So, I’m not sure why only Joba is getting grief.

  207. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    Jerkface February 17th, 2011 at 1:42 pm
    ust look at Adam Wainwright, Jamie Garcia, the majority of the St. Louis bullpen and Chris Perez over in Cleveland

    Jaime Garcia has pitched 1 season and has 400 minor league innings. Perhaps the minor league developers in the cardinals should get more credit for him than Duncan.

    ————

    Perhaps.

  208. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    But I think Rothschild is perhaps the best choice because of th epower pitching philosophy Cashman has adopted.

  209. Shame Spencer February 17th, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    Yeah I actually don’t think he’s involved either trisha but his name hasn’t been mentioned here in a while (for good reason!) and the whole double poster situation brought back some memories…

    One day, I’m going to write a book about this blog. And it will be fantastic.

  210. Jerkface February 17th, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    Wainwright has 700 minor league innings!

  211. Against All Odds February 17th, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    # Chip February 17th, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    LGY February 17th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
    Why would the Yankees want Duncan to come in here and turn their pitching prospects into cookie cutter pitch to contact groundball pitchers?

    —————

    As opposed to turning them into overhyped middle relievers you mean?

    —————————–

    watch your mouth Chip a middle reliever is the foundation of the staff.

  212. Betsy February 17th, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    I would have no problem with Duncan getting his hands on Phil, Joba, etc……..but then again, he’s not here and I think Rothschild will be a very good PC for this team

  213. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    Everyone is hating on Nardi right now because he got so much media attention for being a pitching guru or whatever for so long. Also I think Nardi plays up that image a little bit..

    But really, why are we discussing a minor league pitching instructor to a major league pitching coach? Silly..

  214. Jerkface February 17th, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    Maybe we should be getting whoever runs the Cardinals minor league system (well they have 2 pitchers in the past 5 years, I guess thats ok?)

  215. LGY February 17th, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    “Eiland oversaw the development of Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, and Ian Kennedy. How bad could he have been?”

    ——————————

    Eiland only spent significant time in the minor leagues with Hughes in Trenton in 2006.

    Kennedy he was with in 2007 for only 35 innings. Joba was only with him in Scraton for 8 innings. You also called Joba a failure last night, so I am not sure why not you are referring to him as some kind of success under Eiland.

    In a literal sense, Nardi is actually the one who “oversaw” their development in the minors as the pitching coordinator.

  216. Jerkface February 17th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Chris Perez actually got worse under Duncan’s tutelage , it was only when he went to cleveland that he blossomed. Get the Indians pitching coach!

  217. Jerkface February 17th, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    Lets see Clevelands nameless pitching coach makes: CC, Cliff Lee, Westbrook, Perez, the Rafael’s, Carmona

  218. West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    Mariano on Joba. Priceless!

    ‘……Rivera arrived, as usual, in tip-top shape — and, he said, unaware of the hubbub surrounding a heftier Joba Chamberlain. He said he would do some investigating on his own and then decide whether he needed to address the issue with Chamberlain.

    “We’re not kids here,” Rivera said. “You’re talking about men. And everybody knows that they have to take care of themselves. If you come overweight or not, I would say that’s your own fault. Nobody’s fault but yourself.”

  219. Betsy February 17th, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    I still have not been presented any proof that the Yankee wanted Phil to win the job and that it was in essence handed to him. As to Joba being jerked around, I’m sorry, but there are always excuses for this kid. When does he take any responsibility? The idea that the Yankees have ruined him is just beyond silly.

  220. Chip February 17th, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    LGY February 17th, 2011 at 1:44 pm
    “Eiland oversaw the development of Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, and Ian Kennedy. How bad could he have been?”

    ——————————

    Eiland only spent significant time in the minor leagues with Hughes in Trenton in 2006.

    Kennedy he was with in 2007 for only 35 innings. Joba was only with him in Scraton for 8 innings. You also called Joba a failure last night, so I am not sure why not you are referring to him as some kind of success under Eiland.

    In a literal sense, Nardi is actually the one who “oversaw” their development in the minors as the pitching coordinator.

    —————————–

    And again I ask, what in the name of the blue sky and the green grass has Nardi Contreras ever accomplished as a pitching coach that would indicate he is either qualified or even competent to fill such a role?

  221. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    Get the Indians pitching coach!

    He also failed with Reyes :)

  222. LGY February 17th, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    Ian Kennedy is a mediocre pitcher in the NL West.

    He just put up a sub 4 ERA with close to 200 IP as a 25 year old in his first full year.

    Chip, also who is this pitcher with upside that is out of basebeall?

  223. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    I still have not been presented any proof that the Yankee wanted Phil to win the job and that it was in essence handed to him. As to Joba being jerked around, I’m sorry, but there are always excuses for this kid. When does he take any responsibility? The idea that the Yankees have ruined him is just beyond silly.

    He was outperformed by Aceves, Gaudin and Mitre yet still won the job.

    I’m sick of everyone hammering Joba. The dude was amazing until he got injured, give him a freaking break. Even with a bum shoulder he still pitches and last year he was surprisingly good.

  224. LGY February 17th, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    “I still have not been presented any proof that the Yankee wanted Phil to win the job and that it was in essence handed to him. ”

    ———————–

    Sherman was saying his Yankee sources were telling him it was Hughes’ job to lose months before ST even started.

    Sherman is as good as it gets in the NY media with his info.

  225. Betsy February 17th, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    I don’t blame Eiland for the IPK, Joba and Phil, but he sure didn’t max out their success (though I still believe IPK wouldn’t be more than a #4 type pitcher in the AL East)

  226. Tom in N.J. February 17th, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    Dyar Miller is the minor-league pitching coordinator with the Cards..

  227. LGY February 17th, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    “And again I ask, what in the name of the blue sky and the green grass has Nardi Contreras ever accomplished as a pitching coach that would indicate he is either qualified or even competent to fill such a role?”

    ——————–

    Because pitching coach is not the same job as pitching coordinator???

  228. Betsy February 17th, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    LGY, that’s not sufficient for me……It doesn’t really matter at this point since it’s a year later, though.

  229. LGY February 17th, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    Betsy,

    I am not sure what would be sufficient. Brian Cashman coming out and saying it? Guys like Sherman are who we have to trust for our info, and it has not been often that Sherman has gotten it wrong.

  230. Betsy February 17th, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    Patrick, are you kidding me? That competition was only going to come down to Phil v. Joba. Aceves got off to a great start and struggled badly his last few starts. Mitre pitched well, but really – any team that would seriously consider a guy like Mitre over either Phil or Joba should be contracted. Gaudin was awful…I never believed it was anything more than Phil v. Joba and I never believed, nor do I now, that Phil had the edge.

  231. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    I don’t blame Eiland for the IPK, Joba and Phil, but he sure didn’t max out their success (though I still believe IPK wouldn’t be more than a #4 type pitcher in the AL East)

    Eiland should get CREDIT for IPK, Joba, and Phil. As far as minor league prospects go, all 3 are in the majors and pitching well. That’s 3 success stories as far as I’m concerned.

  232. Betsy February 17th, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    LGY, what can I say? I’m not going to just take Sherman’s word on it just because……….

  233. Dionysius Thelxinoe February 17th, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    Betsy, about Cabrera, beyond the lunacy of getting behind the wheel while plastered, this is the guy who showed up at the ballpark for a season-finale series with the Twins in ’09 to determine first place, while still reeling from a night of drinking and his face scatched up by his wife. The team was livid with him, and he went hitless as his team lost.

    I’m wondering what their reaction will be to this latest “escapade” and I expect they will/should deal with him harshly (league office too).

  234. Against All Odds February 17th, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    # West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    Mariano on Joba. Priceless!

    ‘……Rivera arrived, as usual, in tip-top shape — and, he said, unaware of the hubbub surrounding a heftier Joba Chamberlain. He said he would do some investigating on his own and then decide whether he needed to address the issue with Chamberlain.

    “We’re not kids here,” Rivera said. “You’re talking about men. And everybody knows that they have to take care of themselves. If you come overweight or not, I would say that’s your own fault. Nobody’s fault but yourself.”

    ————————————-

    Joba will be on another by mid season book it lol

  235. Betsy February 17th, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    Patrick, IPK pitched very well, so I’ll give him that. Neither of us wants another long, drawn out argument on Phil and obviously Joba has been done to death, so I’m not going to get into it except to say that I disagree.

  236. Betsy February 17th, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    Dionysis, that’s right. I hope he gets help, but he’s lucky he didn’t kill anyone.

  237. BoJo February 17th, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    LGY February 17th, 2011 at 1:44 pm
    _____________________
    Thank you! Every one keeps stating that Eiland oversaw the development…absurd.

  238. BIG AL February 17th, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    WCYF -
    Great post, if you count all the cut & paste you do. Wow, we can’t read that on our own, need you to post it to be real, lol.

  239. Against All Odds February 17th, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    # Betsy February 17th, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    I still have not been presented any proof that the Yankee wanted Phil to win the job and that it was in essence handed to him. As to Joba being jerked around, I’m sorry, but there are always excuses for this kid. When does he take any responsibility? The idea that the Yankees have ruined him is just beyond silly.

    ——————————————

    Betsy things occurred that made ppl realize that it was Hughes’ job to lose. The biggest factor is the innings there was no way they were going to delay Hughes’ development another yr. He had battled injuries over the past couple of seasons and they weren’t going to pass up him getting 30 ML starts especially based on what he did the yr prior.

    Maybe ruin is a strong word but the Yankees handled him poorly.

  240. Against All Odds February 17th, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    on another team*

  241. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    Betsy,

    So you trust Cashman when he said Joba and Phil had equal chances to win a rotation spot but you don’t believe him when he says Mitre, Gaudin and Aceves also had a chance to win the spot? You have to pick a point of view and stick to it… it seems to me that you are just believing what you want to believe. The reality is, all signs indicated that Hughes would win the spot as long as he didn’t get hurt. Which is exactly what happened.

  242. Patrick February 17th, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    Patrick, IPK pitched very well, so I’ll give him that. Neither of us wants another long, drawn out argument on Phil and obviously Joba has been done to death, so I’m not going to get into it except to say that I disagree.

    The fact of the matter is, all 3 guys are pitching in the major leagues (something most pitching prospects never do) and all 3 have had seasons where they were above average (something even FEWER prospects do). That is 3 successes, it’s not a matter of opinion, this is fact.

  243. Jerkface February 17th, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    The very fact that Joba was forced into a competition the season after finally meeting his innings limit and not pitching too poorly on the whole as a 23 year old, and his primary competition was the former #1 pitching prospect in the system, and all the media said it was Hughes job to lose… the signs point to it was Hughes job to lose.

  244. West Coast Yankee Fan February 17th, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    So Al, instead of commenting on what Mariano said about Joba, something that wasn’t posted here before, you instead attempt to use it to attack me. I think that’s obvious to all.

  245. Betsy February 17th, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    Patrick, yes – I think it’s ludicrous to believe anyone other than Phil or Joba had a shot to win the #5 spot. I don’t see these signs you’re talking about, so I just don’t agree.

    As to the pitchers, there’s really nothing to discuss since you think your opinion is fact. Have a nice day!

  246. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 17th, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    “I’m sick of everyone hammering Joba. The dude was amazing until he got injured, give him a freaking break. Even with a bum shoulder he still pitches and last year he was surprisingly good.”

    I’m so with you Patrick. Joba will have the last laugh in this one IMO.

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