Tuesday notes: Early rotation takes shape
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes on Feb 22, 2011 
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Can’t make too much of the Yankees rotation on February 22, but for now it’s the only thing we know about the most uncertain part of the roster. In the competition to fill the final two starting spots, Bartolo Colon will have the first chance to impress.
“I feel ready,” Colon said through a translator. “I pitched a lot in the winter, and I know I pitched very good. I’m ready to demonstrate to the Yankees that I’m ready to pitch.”
It was that winter success that led the Yankees to sign Colon, and it was that winter experience that led Joe Girardi to choose him for the spring opener. Girardi said Colon is “possibly a little more ready” than some of the other starters.
This morning, though, while Colon was pitching on the back field, Girardi was on the main field watching Freddy Garcia.
“He looked pretty good to me,” Girardi said. “As I’ve said all along, Freddy knows how to pitch, and he knows how to compete. He knows what he has to do to get ready. He threw a lot of strikes and he mixed his pitches and he looked OK.”
• Girardi said the current rotation alignment of CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett and Phil Hughes — in that order — is not necessarily indicative of the way the rotation will line up in April. “Things might bounce around a little bit, but right now that’s how we have them lined up,” Girardi said.
• Girardi has previously said Sergio Mitre will start games this spring, but Girardi said he hasn’t mapped out when Mitre might make his first start. “I’m not out that far,” he said. So far we only know the first six starters. Mitre will work out of the bullpen for now.
• Will Mariano Rivera throw a bullpen tomorrow? “I don’t know exactly,” Girardi said. “That’s not a question I ask on a daily basis, when Mo is going to throw. I know he’ll be ready when we leave here.”
• Girardi said it’s too early to know much about Mark Prior, but he liked what he saw out of Prior — and Boone Logan — during today’s early morning live batting practice sessions. “I thought (Prior) threw the ball pretty good,” Girardi said. “To me it’s still early. This is a guy that hasn’t pitched a lot lately, and it’s still early, but I thought he threw the ball OK. So did Booney.”
• Speaking of guys throwing to hitters: “I’ve actually been really happy with the way our guys have thrown BP, collectively as a group,” Girardi said. “I haven’t seen everyone because I’m on one field, but I’ve been pleased.”
• The Yankees did some team fielding drills this morning. There was a player at every position — some taking turns at a position — and the pitcher would pretend to throw a pitch, at which point Tony Pena would shoot a fly ball with a ball machine. He spread the fly balls to different players, including infielders, and everyone reacted accordingly (backing up, hitting the cutoff man, covering bases, etc). Nothing unusual or especially insightful, just the first the Yankees have done that sort of full-squad drill this spring.
• I only saw the team fielding drills on the main field, didn’t see the half of the team that was going through the same drills in the back. If you’re interested, here’s the defensive alignment on the main field: 1B Teixeira, 2B Russo/Pena, SS Pena/Maruszak, 3B Rodriguez/Laird, LF Golson/Curtis, CF Gardner/Mesa, RF Swisher/Maxwell. Not that I think it matters very much, but thought it was kind of interesting that they had Gardner doing his work in center instead of left.
• During batting practice, groups that aren’t hitting take more ground balls and fly balls, just like during BP during the season. Today, Eric Chavez split his BP defensive drills between third base and first base.
• Speaking of Chavez, it occurred to me today that the Yankees have Brandon Laird in a defensive drills group with Rodriguez and in a hitting group with Chavez. That means, any time Laird is on the field, he’s with either Rodriguez or Chavez, two third basemen who can give the kid plenty of advice about big league success. Eduardo Nunez hits and fields with Derek Jeter.
• Speaking of Nunez, he caught my eye during batting practice today. I saw him hit one ball out to left-center and he seemed to be consistently driving the ball to all fields.
• Jeter likes the Carmelo Anthony trade. “The Knicks made a good trade,” he said. “It was a good job. Carmelo is going to help them out. Everyone in New York is excited about it.”
Associated Press photos of Garcia, Sabathia and Jeter
I told you Brian Cashman knew what he was doing. How many other teams have this many possibilities, and I mean real possibilities, lined up and waiting? I think the man may be spinning straw into gold. I have felt nothing but positive about his Plan B. You wait and see. They don’t call them Damn Yankees! for nothing.
Erica,
I’m glad you are prepared for the draft.
I still have some work to do. I was too busy counting my lottery winnings
Fran-
I noticed pitching seems much heavily weighted than hitting.
A good/bad pitching performance will really make or break you in this league.
I think Williams has a point, where does it stop? $35 million a year? $40 million a year? Each player wants to make more than the last.
Fran -
We were talking about the lottery one day at work and my old boss said, “if you won, you’d never speak to me again.”
I told him, “actually , you’d be the first person I’d call to tell.”
Remember, QOTD will be up at 6:00 tonight.
pat-
Erica, it does seem that way but I can change the point values if everyone agrees to it.
pat-
Right before my last AC trip, my boss and one of my coworkers (two different client engagements) made me swear that even if I hit jackpot I would still come back and finish the jobs with them.
I promised and I meant it.
(I figured I would have a better karmic chance of jackpot if I was sincere)
“I think Williams has a point, where does it stop? $35 million a year? $40 million a year? Each player wants to make more than the last.”
———————
It stops at the number that 1 of 30 owners is willing to pay for a particular player.
Fran-
I didn’t know you were that powerful
But seriously, it may be something to consider It just didn’t seem like hitting would rack up as many points.
Also, did you say something about a start limit? I couldn’t find anything about it.
Trisha,
about 10-11 years ago, we were in Thailand doing some missions. As is the case in all deployments, we had incountry classes and training on languages, local religion and the local wildlife…both in the cities and in the operations areas. One class was on what to do if confronted by a cobra…up close and personal. As he explained it, you keep the cobra’s attention in one direction and slowly move one hand and the quickly snatch it at the back of the head. He showed us, then asked for some sucker…errr…volunteer to try it. The sucker…errrr…volunteer did as he was shown, but, not quite…and the snake spit some venom. without thinking…I errr…the volunteer slapped the cobra on the side of the head. Then it dawns on me what just happened and, I didn’t feel too well. Anyway, I passed the course.
As a sidenote, I looked at the instructor’s hands and they were scarred and some deformity. I asked about it and he said that he had been bitten 7 times; I’m thinking, “AND THIS IDIOT IS GIVING ME CLASSES?”
LGY February 22nd, 2011 at 4:22 pm
“I think Williams has a point, where does it stop? $35 million a year? $40 million a year? Each player wants to make more than the last.”
———————
It stops at the number that 1 of 30 owners is willing to pay for a particular player.
************
And that favors the wealthier clubs, what is sporting about that?
Erica
Think how much fun it would be to “torture” the person in the next cubicle for a few days knowing you would never have to see them ever again.
Now that’s good karma!
Erica, I think I took out the start limits, but let me look at the points. I’ll email the league before I make any changes.
Funny, fans, at least some of them, don’t have a problem with owners making 30-40 million a year in profits and not putting it back into their ballclubs.
If somebody pays Pujols the money, they can afford it. Plain and simple.
What difference does it make where it ends up?
Its an over 8 BILLION dollar industry.
If an owner doesn’t want to pay a player 30 million a year, he can choose not to.
Next time you see an owner have a gun pointed to his head to pay a player, let me know because it will be a first.
“And that favors the wealthier clubs, what is sporting about that?”
——————
They should put in a salary cap system like the NBA to level the playing field.
That way, the stars in the league can’t flock to big markets and dictate that is where they end up.
GB/SJ -
I’m thinking Garcia could have a similar impact on this team as El Duque did in the late 90s/Early 00s, stuff-wise. Is that a valid line of thinking?
pat February 22nd, 2011 at 4:27 pm
Erica
Think how much fun it would be to “torture” the person in the next cubicle for a few days knowing you would never have to see them ever again.
**************
Hmmm- how different would that be from the guy sitting across the table from me all day today who watched (and listened) as I sang along to the Carpenters “Close to You”??
Aside from the Yankees and Red Sox, the most profitable teams in the last 3 years have been the Pirates, Marlins and Rays and A’s.
The entire industry is making money. LOTS of it.
Meaning, there should be a mechanism in place to wean them off “baseball welfare”
Yet, there isn’t.
Look at the last 15 years in MLB.
There have been more teams making the playoffs, and winning titles, than in the NBA, a league with a salary cap.
There is more diversity among the winning teams in baseball than there is in any of the other major sports.
SJ44 February 22nd, 2011 at 4:28 pm
Maybe Bud will take up a special collection from the owners to pay Pujols to stay with the Cards for the good of Bud, I mean the game! Somewhat like he did for Texas for Lee to not land in Yankeeland!
How do you like the new HC at Miami? You sure have the talent there!
I wonder how many people are in favor of an arbitrary limit on their own salary.
As far as commenting, If Hank and the yankees don’t like revenue sharing, they should get out of baseball and do something else is a stupid comment.
The correct approach should be the owners to look as a group for a better solution to the spiraling costs in the game, and a more equitable way to run the game.
The owners have caused the money problems, by handing out huge contracts, so why should players not ask for the sky, if an owner to dumb enough to give it to them.
It should be changed, so every dollor an owner gets from revenue sharing must go back into building the team, and not be allowed to be used for any other purpose.
There are several very rich owners getting revenue sharing, that are simply too cheap to re-invest into their team. If they can put a low quality team on the field, and still make big profits, where is the incentive to change.
“Hmmm- how different would that be from the guy sitting across the table from me all day today who watched (and listened) as I sang along to the Carpenters ?Close to You???”
You are an evil, evil auditor.
“(I figured I would have a better karmic chance of jackpot if I was sincere)”
LMAO!
******************
LGY – I have always been for a salary cap.
***********
GB, how horrible. I had shivers just reading it. Seriously, what did the cobra do when you slapped it? Was it stunned? Did the instructor have the cobra in a basket? What were people instructed to do in the event they were bitten? Did you have antidote where you were located?
pat February 22nd, 2011 at 4:38 pm
“Hmmm- how different would that be from the guy sitting across the table from me all day today who watched (and listened) as I sang along to the Carpenters ?Close to You???”
You are an evil, evil auditor.
************
Maybe
Anyway… I have to pack up and go back to my office for Phase 2 of my work day
Bye for now!
BIG AL – Not a bad-looking plan, but doubtful it will happen. With maybe a couple of exceptions, most owners have been more interested in making money for themselves, rather than competing for any sports championship.
rodg12 February 22nd, 2011 at 4:34 pm
GB/SJ -
I’m thinking Garcia could have a similar impact on this team as El Duque did in the late 90s/Early 00s, stuff-wise. Is that a valid line of thinking?
———————————————————————————————————————-
rodg, definately so. NYYs have been patching rotation together for years, especially the 4th and 5th slots. Lieber, Contreras, Small, Hernandez, one year they used 13 rookie starters to get 19 wins. Hopefully, starting next year, they’ll have more stable and better options for years to come. This year, it’ll be patched together.
A salary cap is not the problem.
Owners not spending money is the problem.
You don’t have to have an A-Rod on your team to win.
What you need to do is invest in the draft, foreign and domestic. That includes scouting of course.
“I’m thinking Garcia could have a similar impact on this team as El Duque did in the late 90s/Early 00s, stuff-wise. Is that a valid line of thinking?”
I’m not SJ or GB, but I have felt that about Garcia from the day we got him. I think he definitely is going to be a difference maker in the rotation.
later
Ray,
Everybody likes Al Golden so far.
He’s really bringing everyone back into the program who abandoned it for numerous reasons the past few years.
So far, no missteps and he’s a good guy to boot.
Man, some great quotes from Donnie Walsh today.
Looks like everyone in NY has the gloves off recently.
A salary cap does nothing but pass the profits from the players to the owners. It’s a bad thing, IMO.
Revenue sharing or not, there is always gloing to be a huge gap between the haves and the have nots in baseball. If we had a salary cap, then I think you would see a lot more evening of the playing field. I’m all for it.
# Joe from Long Island February 22nd, 2011 at 4:37 pm
I wonder how many people are in favor of an arbitrary limit on their own salary.
———–
Exactly. It takes a lot of gall to lecture others on how much money they could live with.
On second thought…….
SamBorden Incredibly interesting stuff from Greinke here. Reading this, anyone still think he would have been OK in NY? http://tinyurl.com/4gzxzxc
SJ44 February 22nd, 2011 at 4:41 pm
Great! The ACC needs a very good UM!
There are different ways to put money into the team. You can use it for scouting. You can use it to rehab your facilities for your farm teams. You can use it in a variety of ways. But as long as the Pittsburgh Pirates (for example) will never have enough money, revenue sharing or not, to have a $200 mil payroll, there will be gross inequities in the game.
I am all for a salary cap. I don’t personally care what happens to team profits. That’s not my problem. But if all teams are forced to spend a certain amount and no more, there will certainly be a better distribution of talent and other MLB teams may be able to know a bit of the success that the Yankees have known.
Share the wealth.
GB, how horrible. I had shivers just reading it. Seriously, what did the cobra do when you slapped it? Was it stunned? Did the instructor have the cobra in a basket? What were people instructed to do in the event they were bitten? Did you have antidote where you were located?
———————————————————————————————————————-
Trisha, it’s funny now, but, it was stupid back then. It was just a reaction. I guess the cobra was about as stunned as I was. I knew right after I did it, that I had just screwed up.
after that, I did’t remember things immediately. The instructor picked up the snake with a pole that had a clamp on it and he put the snake in it’s cage. After that, I went back to my room and changed my drawers. Then, I had a coca cola and a cigarette.
Thanks for the replies GB and trisha. Sometimes, I think people forget just what the make-up of the team was like in the late 90s/early 00s. Especially the pitching staffs. Wasn’t all aces.
# pat February 22nd, 2011 at 4:45 pm
On second thought…….
SamBorden Incredibly interesting stuff from Greinke here. Reading this, anyone still think he would have been OK in NY? http://tinyurl.com/4gzxzxc
———-
I just read that. Now I happen to be a fan of Greinke. I liked him long before his Cy Young season.
But that interview he gave was just a wee bit too candid. Needless to say, those comments would not have gone over well with the NY media.
They’d be running with this story for weeks.
I think it’s wrong when clubs take revenue sharing money and don’t put it back into salaries. I think the Marlins were held to account for that if I am not mistaken.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01.....rlins.html
I do think the system is broken and needs to be fixed; on both sides.
Joe from Long Island February 22nd, 2011 at 4:40 pm
***************************************************
Joe – I agree, that’s why it’s important that all moneys are used to improve the team, if not, that owner is then no longer eligible for revenue sharing.
Sometimes, I don’t think all Yankees fans realize how lucky they are to have owners like the Steinbrenner’s, that are willing to put their money on the line to provide such a great team, year after year.
MLB actually has one of the most restrictive systems in place for young talent. MLB teams control these kids for 6 years of service time. Sometimes close to 7 full seasons.
First round picks in the NBA only get 2 guaranteed years.
Thanks for sharing that story, GB. Good stuff.
Trisha, definately had the anti-venons there for about 7 or 8 different snakes. Never could quite get into going to town and joining in the local custom of drinking cobra blood. Others did, but, I got smarter that day.
“I wonder how many people are in favor of an arbitrary limit on their own salary.”
Where’s the “arbitrary limit”? It actually works that way in life. Your organization has a certain amount of money to distribute to the employees. They don’t all get the same salary. Same with ballplayers. It isn’t like they all get the same amount in their paychecks! And I don’t hear a lot of complaints from players in sports with a salary cap. I mean it isn’t like they’re only going to get $50,000 a year.
It actually calls for more skill and acumen than simply opening a check book.
Ha, that Greinke article.
The Marlins got a slap on the wrist AFTER they got 656 million in public money to build a new stadium after crying poormouth.
There is no real system in place to penalize teams for not putting profits back into the team.
Namely because, its THEIR money. They can do whatever they want with it and if the consumer (fan) doesn’t like it? Don’t go to the games.
This idea that you have to prop up people who don’t need propping up is a BS narrative fed to fans for years.
When you have an 8 billion dollar industry, there are no “have nots”. You just have some with more than others.
That’s a far cry from having “have nots”.
“local custom of drinking cobra blood”
Oh my lord.
Not that other teams don’t practice fundamentals but Girardi is leaving no stone unturned. Every possible scenario a player can face in a season is being drilled on. These Yankees can’t be accused of being unprepared.
Giuseppe Franco February 22nd, 2011 at 4:49 pm
Thanks for sharing that story, GB. Good stuff.
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I guess that I could use that as an excuse for my spelling and other things. I’d blame it on wild youth, but, I was almost 45 years old. Most of the guys I was with have silly stories like that. We very gutsy or stupid. Not for me to say.
By the way, where is the fairness in the game, when baseball owners can pick one of their own to be commissioner and control the game, and the players that make them rich, are being told by some, their salaries need to be cut back.
The owners want the players, that are the product they sell to take the hit, but they won’t open their books to a full audit to show how much they are making from their teams.
The players are not just athletes, they are entertainers, and given the amount of money other top entertainers make these days, they are not over paid, not one cent.
Some people think being a pro ball player is all fun, games and glamor, but these guys are away from home nearly 10 months a year, get on average 1 or 2 days off per month, and work very hard at their careers.
LGY,
I think Donnie has had enough. He knows the deal and he’s not stickin’ around.
Before he goes though, it looks like he’s going to have his say.
If there’s a cap, then they need a floor.
Well SJ, I don’t like the gap between the haves and the have lesses. I don’t like the fact that the New York Yankees can buy any player they want and bury their mistakes because of their revenue stream. Where’s the true competition in that? Seriously? If the same thing happens with mistakes in many of the other teams, they live with them. That’s not fair, IMO. That’s not true competition, IMO.
I don’t know why anybody would be against a salary cap. Again, it isn’t like other professional sports have tried it and failed with it. And it would give other teams the opportunity to compete where they absolutely could not otherwise. Plain and simple.
If you’re against it, you’re against it. I’m not.
Oh Doreen, definitely need a floor.
Again, it isn’t like other professional sports have tried it and failed with it.
–
Salary caps are too artificial and force teams to dump popular franchise players.
Baseball doesn’t work like football or the NBA. Players need to be trained for years even after college just to compete. You have to be able to carry veterans to cover up the younger players. If there is a salary cap and teams are wasting cap space on rookies trying to prove themselves it becomes a mess.
From 2000-2010, the MLB had more different teams win a championship than the NFL or NBA.
SJ,
It will be rough if Donnie walks. Great basketball mind. I’m still holding out hope, but not sure what to expect now.
TrishA,
That’s just it. There isn’t a big gap between the teams.
The Nationals and Orioles have a ton of money.
The Marlins, A’s, Pirates, and Rays all exceed 20 million in annual profits.
The Twins now have an over 110 million dollar payroll and their franchise value has jumped over 40% since opening Target Field.
A salary cap does nothing to level the playing field. All is does is hold down non-superstar salaries.
Where do you think that money goes? Back into owners pockets.
The industry is thriving right now. There has never been a smaller gap between large and small market revenue teams. Mainly because of record TV and new media deals.
Its like any other industry. Some teams will do better than others.
Make no mistake though, a salary won’t improve those teams’ fortunes. It just gives the owners more money to put into their pockets.
re: a floor, teams like the Marlins, Pirates and Rays are dead set against having a floor.
You know why? They would be forced to pay more in salaries than they do right now.
Its the small market teams who are against a salary floor because it would cut into their profits.
There needs to be a compromise where the playing field is leveled a bit. Its easy for us Yankee fans to not care because the status quo benefits us. But, it’s not a fair system. I understand the complexities involved, there are different sides at odds with one another all seeking a system that benefits them. I think baseball needs a visionary leader that is capable of working something out – a tough job and one that Bud Selig is certainly not up to. At least not to date.
It’s not about profits it’s about revenues.
Baseball needs the Yankees to be competitive. The Rays have been an elite team for a few years now, and they hardly generate any revenue. If all the elite teams were from small markets, baseball wouldn’t be nearly as profitable, and fewer people would tune in to watch.
Tell me about the how many different teams have won in the history of the game. I don’t care about the last 10 years. You don’t have to tell me. I know the answer. Pretty uneven distribution there and I would tell you that the answer isn’t top heavy with teams that are known to be in the “lesser” category.
“Salary caps are too artificial and force teams to dump popular franchise players.”
Oh well. Without them the most popular franchise players usually gravitate to a select group of teams. And since as SJ pointed out you’re talking about an 8 billion dollar industry, it shouldn’t be too hard for the industry to find a way to allow healthy salary caps.
****************
Anyway, see you back at 6 with QOTD.
Probably the only way you could have a system even somewhat resembling a level playing field in any sport is to eliminate small market teams with owners who are not willing to spend.
Salary cap, floor, revenue sharing, lux tax, whatever the stars in the league are going to flock to big markets and get paid top dollar no matter what.
“There needs to be a compromise where the playing field is leveled a bit. Its easy for us Yankee fans to not care because the status quo benefits us. But, it’s not a fair system”
Amen.
************
SJ, until all teams can afford to put out a $200 mil payroll for their players, there is no equity.
Lakers have played in 7 of the last 11 NBA finals.
Life isn’t fair. In the ’60s and late ’80s early 90′s, there weren’t any teams holding telethons for the Yankees. They want more money, spend a little more of what you’re getting and reinvest it in your own players. Go out and do what GMS and hustle to get better deals for your product. Go out and promote your team. As long as some of these teams are getting welfare checks, their only complaint is there isn’t enough of it. Like state/federal welfare, as long as you take away ithe initiative to work and still get paid, there will be that are happy not to work for better.
# RS February 22nd, 2011 at 5:09 pm
Baseball needs the Yankees to be competitive. The Rays have been an elite team for a few years now, and they hardly generate any revenue. If all the elite teams were from small markets, baseball wouldn’t be nearly as profitable, and fewer people would tune in to watch.
That’s because they have an ugly stadium in a poor location.
RS, the Rays have been an elite team due to the benefits of the players draft. That’s not going to last forever since they are now near the top.
“It’s not about profits it’s about revenues.”
Bingo.
FYI – in 2009 according to Forbes. The Yankees revenue was $440 million ($25 million in profit) — and the Marlins $145 million in revenue (45 million in profit).
“Lakers have played in 7 of the last 11 NBA finals.”
So they scout and draft well. Yipee.
Trisha,
There isn’t a sport going that all the teams spend the same amount of money.
Not in the NBA or NFL because there are exceptions to the rules within each salary cap.
The Redskins spent over 55 million dollars more than the Packers this year.
The Knicks outspend almost everybody every year.
There is never going to be a system in place where teams spend the same amount of money.
That’s the misnomer of salary cap leagues. It doesn’t even happen in them.
And they’re coached well.
I will go back and read the Greinke article in its entirety after I finish making dinner, but the first few paragraphs are pretty enlightening.
It would not have been a good match.
“Oh well. Without them the most popular franchise players usually gravitate to a select group of teams.”
Why shouldn’t players have a say in where they play? They already spend 6 years chained to a team in a completely random city (unless they get lucky like Jeter and Mauer did, by being drafted by their favorite/home team).
Gotta run to the post office. More later. I think this is important discussion, in terms of reality.
…there is no way the Marlins could come close to the Yankees payroll; even if they sunk all $45 million of their profits into payroll it would only total approximately $70 million.
Baseball boom times have only come when the Yankees are strong and relevant. Many teams can meet half of their yearly committments on a three game series with the Yankees. Teams like Baltimore, Tampa and Toronto can pay all of their committments on 9 Yankee games alone. Whydo you think the hue and cry for the Yankees during interleague is so great. It’s their only capacity crowds theu’ll have all season after opening day.
Lakers haven’t drafted a great player in a long time.
Signed Shaq. Traded for Kobe. Traded for Gasol. Bynum sucks.
Doesn’t have to be the same, just close enough so the “inequality” is removed from the equation to a large extent.
Tell me about the how many different teams have won in the history of the game.
–
Uh what the hell? This literally does not matter because in the past, when the yankees and cardinals were winning it all the sport was different. Players made jack in salary and it was more about exploiting amateur talent. The situation was completely different: no free agency, less teams making the world series, etc.
“Why shouldn’t players have a say in where they play?”
Actually unless they have a no trade, which most players don’t, they oftentimes have little say in where they play. But the “best” go to the teams with the most dinero. Finance 101.
By the way, I have no problem if the Yankees end up with premier players. I just want other teams to have the same opportunitie$. Not all do.
“Doesn’t have to be the same, just close enough so the “inequality” is removed from the equation to a large extent.”
Yes.
“Signed Shaq. Traded for Kobe.
Tradedcommitted highway robbery for Gasol. Bynum sucks.”The disparity in payroll is a product of the escalating salaries in the 2000s, during which time the game has seen heightened levels of parity.
Formatting fail!
I’m not sure there is a way to tell business owners how to spend their money. You can make guidelines about how little or how much they can spend, I suppose. But even within the range, I don’t know that you can force an owner to spend more of his profits on his business than he is comfortable with.
The whole idea of somehow getting a “level playing field” as idyllic as it sounds, just rubs me the wrong way, with regard to MLB.
If the Lakers were willing to give up Bynum, Melo would be a Laker today.
Teams like the Yankees, Lakers, and now the Celtics are legacy teams with owners willing to go over cap or overboard in the case of the Yankees.
“Lakers haven’t drafted a great player in a long time.
Signed Shaq. Traded for Kobe. Traded for Gasol. Bynum sucks.”
So what’s your point? Big deal if they’ve been in it 7 of 11. They’ve done it more honestly than baseball teams with limitless checkbooks! That’s the point. I don’t care if the Yankees win it every year from now until the end of time. I want to see it done with more opportunity for all other teams to score top-name players season after season after season. Then let the chips fall where they may.
If you go back to 1984 in the NBA, they have had 7 different champions.
SEVEN.
MLB has had 9 since 2000
Only repeat champs are Boston and NY.
They’ve done it more honestly than baseball teams with limitless checkbooks! That’s the point. I don’t care if the Yankees win it every year from now until the end of time.
–
You realize the NBA has a soft cap which allows teams to spend over the amount which is about as honest as the Yankees spending over the MLB’s softcap?
QOTD around 6ish. Later.
Phil should be the #2 guy, not AJ
Baseball is a sport as well as a business and accordingly there are rules and regulations that purportedly try to create a fair and equal competition. It’s different than an ordinary business where there are few rules to insure equality.
Carl, you’re using the ends to justify the means.
They don’t.
The NFL’s salary cap is a huge joke. The Bucs, whose owners are deep in sht with Manchester United’s stupid EPL debt, game the system by including ridiculous incentives that cannot be reached to pad their cap space when they are really paying BELOW the salary floor for all their players.
All a cap will do is force the Yankees to spend 150 mil or whatever the league sets it at while the Marlins pay their 20 mil with a ton of escalators that don’t matter.
The NFL teams garner most of their revenue nationally while MLB teams do so regionally. It’s a totally different animal starting with that.
I thought ARod’s enormous contract was a hindrance ?
Kenny Williams needs as many $300MM million contracts out there as he can get.
LGY, IMO, Donnie was thoroughly convincing; I completely believe that he was in on the deal all along and that he wanted this done – also, that Melo was not going to hit FA. I’ll worry about Thomas if and when the time comes. He was on with Kay and Francesca and was excellent both times.
Off to a meeting. Later fellow communists and socialists.
Yes, Phil should be#2. They’re not lining up that way, so I’ll just not expect it to happen.
“Phil should be the #2 guy, not AJ”
Doesn’t really matter, does it?
Maybe Hughes will be the #3 so he can be a “stopper” like Andy used to be. Do we really want Burnett pitching in front of the #4 and #5 starters?
M, that would suck……AJ will get the #2 because he’s a veteran; so much for winning positions on merit.
NotHankStein FakeHankSteinbrenner
Scratch that, according to stupid sexy Hal, Dad built ships. Ships? Really? That’s it? All these years I thought we built rail roads. Damn.
3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply » NotHankStein FakeHankSteinbrenner
I can say whatever I damn want! My Father built the rail roads
“The NFL teams garner most of their revenue nationally while MLB teams do so regionally. It’s a totally different animal starting with that”
Might explain why all 32 NFL teams are among the 50 most valuable sports franchises while only a handful of MLB teams make the list.
Why does it make sense that a new team, such as the Rays, can attain such a high level, and the older, established teams just continue to suck?
Why should teams in MLB be responsible for the poor quality of other teams management, scouting etc.
If you want a level playing field in business, perhaps Walmart should be forced to share their profits with common businesses that don’t do as well. This is the price you pay for expansion, more teams, with lower quality players available.
When you had 6 teams in both the NL and AL, there were far better players on the field, because they were not spread so thin.
One way to help all teams get a shot at the better players, limit contracts to 3 years, then when players go on the open market more often, more teams have a shot at signing them, and if a great player goes bad, the teams are not locked into very long contracts. Allow players to reach FA in a much shorter period of time as well, perhaps after 3 full seasons of ML ball.
3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply » NotHankStein FakeHankSteinbrenner
I can say whatever I damn want! My Father built the rail roads
Scratch that, according to stupid sexy Hal, Dad built ships. Ships? Really? That’s it? All these years I thought we built rail roads. Damn.
Keep in mind, the NFL and NBA use college ball as their minor leagues, and don’t have to develop that talent, and the NBA has half the players on their rooster than MLB.
I don’t agree you should reward owners for being cheap, and poor businees people.
What a timely re-tweet by C-Grand:
https://twitter.com/#!/MLB/status/40178437138296832
MLB MLB
by cgrand14
Fact: 25 of 30 teams have appeared in last 10 #Postseasons & 14 different teams in last 10 @WorldSeries
Maybe baseball should negotiate billion dollar TV deals?
I love the NFL and their TV deals, it was really fun not being able to watch the Bucs on TV at all this year.
They Yankees and Red Sox and other teams who spend their money are playing by the rules in place. They are not doing anything “dishonestly.”
You can spend all you want, it doesn’t guarantee victory. It does help you to be in contention on a fairly consistent basis, but salary spending does not guarantee the championship each year.
You can spend all you want, it doesn’t guarantee victory. It does help you to be in contention on a fairly consistent basis, but salary spending does not guarantee the championship each year.
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This is true, and it is also true that many of the lower salary teams have owners richer than the Steinbrenners who could, if they want, invest back in their club and perhaps increase their revenue. People can cite revenue figures for the small market teams but those include the paltry revenues brought in by barely filling their stadiums to 50% capacity due to crap rosters and no winning. Maybe you start bringing in more people, sign a better TV deal, create a RSN, those revenues go up, payroll increases to pace revenues.
The problem is this whole emphasis on winning.
If they would just hand out 30 Participation Trophies at the end of the season, everyone could be equally happy.
On a totally unrelated subject, will Derek Jeter be a better player this year under his new contract than he would have been if he’d gotten an open market value contract?
It’s not negotiated contracts that are hurting these owners. It’s something that all owners voted for except GMS. Arbitration. steinbrenner said that would be the worst thing that ever happened to baseball. He was right. It was worse than free agency.
Bynum is good. He just can’t stay healthy.
He dominated in HS. It was hilarious to see. He was like a giant with a bunch of Oompa-Loompas hacking at his arms.
Trisha -
It’s not a matter of teams not having the ability to sign top ballplayers, it’s a matter of certain owners not willing to spend what it takes to do so. The owners of the O’s is very rich, but, very cheap. The owner of his rival, the Nats is rich, but is willing to spend what it takes to turn his team into winners. The Met’s always had tons of money, not counting now, but, very poor business decisions, GM work etc kept them from attaining a championship lately. You can go team by team if you want, but teams like the Rays and Marlins want low cost players to keep their profits up, and let their stars leave, or trade them, when they become too costly.
Hello . Hello . Fellow Yankee Fans .
Any injuries to report today from our Yankee camp ?
Using the Rays as an example, they draw poorly because fans realize that owner Stuart Sternberg is crying poor mouth when in fact he’s turning a nice profit with revenue streams he never cares to discuss.
The happiest day of his year is when luxury tax disbursement is sent to him.
Jerkface -
Just look at the Rays, even when they were fighting for first place, and in the playoffs, they drew a very small crowd. Teams like that need to re-locate to an area where people not only appreciate the game, but will fill the stadium for good teams.
If the Rays ever moved to Charlotte, NC for example, they most likely would have over 40,000 seats sold every game. For some reason, Florida does not support baseball, even when their teams are very good. MLB needs to stop allowing franchises to set up in ares that do not support the sport.
they draw poorly because fans realize that owner Stuart Sternberg is crying poor mouth when in fact he’s turning a nice profit with revenue streams he never cares to discuss.
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Also because their stadium isn’t great, the parking situation is horrible, the traffic is a nightmare. Its more about the environment. The rays have won lots of games recently, they would draw if they had a real stadium. I like the Trop’s dome, but I wouldn’t go there often.
For some reason, Florida does not support baseball, even when their teams are very good.
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It has to due with their placement. You could live 15 minutes from the stadium and it will take you an hour to get there. And the Marlins ‘stadium’ is a football field, it sucks, and its hot and humid. I went to a night game there and it sucked.
They just need better placement.
Jerkface -
Then MLB needs to require proper studies done, prior to a stadium being built, and a franchise awarded. If poor placement of a stadium, and no dome in a area like south Florida, keeps people from attending games, thus much lower revenues, why should teams like the Yankees be required to help pay for those poor judgements through revenue sharing. But, then again, the Twins went from a dome to open air stadium in an area that tends to be very cold in both spring and fall.
Sorry post office was jammed. QOTD (or actually N) will be up in five minutes.
Casey Close rumored to be parting ways with CAA next month. Don’t think that would impact Derek in any significant way now if he went with Close. Maybe off season training facility?
“Why does it make sense that a new team, such as the Rays, can attain such a high level, and the older, established teams just continue to suck?”
It’s called the “worst” teams get to draft highest. It took them a while to get there. But they won’t stay there if they can’t hang onto the Carl Crawfords of the world.
You can dress a pig up and put lipstick on it and call it a lady. But it’s still a pig. There is a HUGE problem with revenue disparity and it isn’t all owing to cheap owners. It makes it hard for some teams to hold onto players, say for example those teams who truly don’t have the richest owners and can’t put people in the seats because they can’t afford the best players. Deal with the reality whichever way you want, and say you don’t mind the system, but please don’t insult my intelligence by pretending the problem doesn’t exist. Thank you.
When I’m done with the QOTD I will look into some other stat that was thrown out earlier just to see if there is a positive, if you will, correlation with team revenue.
QOTD2 – He us one of few pitchers to win over 200 games in a Yankee uniform. He reached 20 games in 4 straight seasons. Who is this Yankee player?
Anyone see Mike Wilbon on PTI try to turn Blowhard Hank’s comments into a racial thing? He said that Hank used “those people” in his comments about building mansions. The quote according to the Daily News was: “Some of the players are too busy building mansions and doing other things, not concentrating on winning. I have no problem saying that.” Tony K had fun with that one.
That should be “he is”
True equity would mean that no team is allowed to employ Omar Minaya and every teams’s prospects would be hyped by the evil wizard Gammons the Yellow-Toothed.
Trisha, I think I may know this.
It’s Red Ruffing or Whitey Ford I think.
I’ll go with Ruffing. Am I right?
What is this question of the day thing?
More than half the teams in the league carry a payroll of 80+ mil, if you forced teams to spend that much then all the precious low revenue teams would be bankrupt. The solution isn’t to punish the other teams capable of carrying a large payroll.
Especially when one of the low revenue teams has won 2 world series.
Fran, you wun. It”s Red Rufing. He was about 40-90 with the Red Sox…then traded to the Yanks. Great hitter, too about 35 career homers
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....rtByStat=W
All time Yankee wins
Fran, you not only ***wun***, but you oneand won again
Interesting discussion today. Mlb is just a totally different animal than the other sports…..there is a lot more development time involved, the bust rate in the draft is much higher, and the teams control the players for years after they reach the big leagues……you can compete with lower payrolls by drafting and developing smartly……at the same time you can run up a big payroll by spending on older (and not necessarily better) free agents and not compete.
I think the thing you really need to look at is the talent on the different clubs…..not the payrolls. Payroll is irrelevant to pennant races, talent is what matters and barring a few exceptions, most teams have talent.
For the most part, the teams that aren’t any good are the ones that are poorly ran….just like with the NFL and NBA.
GB,
Thanks. I don’t know as much Yankee history as you but I’m learning.
STOP THE PRESSES!
Fran you are absoutely correct.
One of the only pitchers to win over 200 games in a Yankee uniform, Ruffing (231 wins) took the hill in New York from 1930-46. Starting in 1936, the right hander reached 20 wins in a season four straight times. His 7-2 record and a 2.63 ERA over his World Series career helped the Yankees to six Fall Classic titles, ending the 1930s with four consecutive championships.
Yankee fans, I present to you Yankee great Red Ruffing! http://www.google.com/imgres?i.....9,r:18,s:0
A lot of the trouble with the Rays and Tropicana is that stupid bridge. The other day on my way home from fanfest there was an accident on the wing of the bridge going to st.pete. Traffic was backed up almost to downtown. One accident on that bridge and you add an hour to your commute, and accident happen all the time. That the most effecient way to get to st pete unless you want to take backroads but then its probably the same extra hour. Then you get there and the parking lot is really shi**y, tickets are cheap, ill give them that and you can supposedly bring food in. A lot of people whine about the food and drinks being so expensive. Well you’ve got issues if you can’t go 3 hours without a drink(waterfountain) and some food. Their biggest issue is location. And all the transplants from the north with ties to their own team already.
Everyone in St Pete watches the games on the TV. They should move the team closer to Orlando so that it takes a reasonable time to drive on I4 to the stadium and the residents of Tampa can go to the games better. Then they could run a shuttle from USF to the stadium.
Or move to Orlando and run a shuttle from UCF (with its 50,000+ students) to the new stadium.
Florida is predominately a football state. Spring training baseball draws well because it’s made up of many northern visitors looking for a break from winter and getting baseball back in their blood and seeing their favorite teams again.
Between boating, beaches and numerous other outdoor activites, baseball is an afterthought in the warmer months. Both the Rays and Marlins were marketed wrong to begin with.
Trisha!
I use to be a proponent for Salary Caps but not any more. In the sports that have salary caps there really isn’t one and it can be twisted a thousand ways to make something work and IMO hasn’t helped those sports.
MLB is different in that they have farm systems which is a feeder to the MLB team. It is a long-term investment. Ownerships allow for multiple partners and even infusions of cash based on selling partnerships, but unfortunately the structure that includes revenue sharing actually causes teams to rely on it rather than risk losing money.
If a system were in place to allow an investment credit for teams who put profits back into the team to share revenues then perhaps it would be more palatable.
MLB has allowed thru Bud & his circle of friends to bring in ownerships that were heavily in debt to run MLB teams. If a certain ownership that had plenty of capital/cash wanted to be an owner they were turned away. (Mark Cuban, Donald Trump, Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder, or name Billionaire) Mario Lemuix was shocked when he tried to buy out the Pirates at how profitable they were & of course he was refused. It has become a social club to make a profit on the backs of teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers etc with little to no effort.
Any team can make a profit. The sky is the limit. Ted Turner bought the Braves & made a ton of money with them & fielded very good teams & had very high salaries. But it takes more than money. And it will take a lot more than a salary cap to make things work evenly. It takes long term planning and commitment. In this day of quick cash it takes an owner wanting to establish something versus just living off the cash flow.
It use to bother me that teams like Seattle & Twins would just let their stars go away when their ownership were billionaires and didn’t care about making a tradition on keeping their stars, but did make more money off owners that cared.
Fran the original February 22nd, 2011 at 6:48 pm
GB,
Thanks. I don’t know as much Yankee history as you but I’m learning.
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You did well, Fran. Congratulations, Fran WATSON. I would have won, but, I fell asleep and had a scary nightmare. A cobra bit me on the butt and I found out that all of my friends deserted me.
To show you how quickly those cards become dated, the card said only two players had won over 200 games in a Yankee uniform. So I had to switch the information.
************
LGY, I’ve started a little quiz-type thing open to all lohudites. It’s called Question of the Day (QOTD). I received some baseball cards as a Christmas gift a year or so ago and they’re called Yankee Stadium Legacy. There are a lot of cards, and each one has information on someone/something connected to Yankee Stadium. So I thought it would be fun to use those as a source of quiz questions. I also thought it would be a nice teaching opportunity for posters to learn more about their Yankee history, me included.
I am keeping score and the poster who gets the most correct answers when I run out of cards will get a nice prize.
I will be posting 2 questions per day, one around 10 in the morning, the other around 6 at night. (I say around only because I got tied up at the post office tonight and my question was late.)
All posters are welcome to participate. We only started officially yesterday.
If you close that picture of Ruffing you will see a team shot of our 1941 Yankees.
Come on GB! You know we’d be there to help you!! LOL!
The Yankees can spend $215 million on payroll due to their revenue being $440 million. No other club comes close. They make about $25 million in profit and certainly could make more if they cut payroll to other clubs level. Except for one thing. New York wouldn’t tolerate it and revenues would drop precipitously.
GB, we’d never desert you.
Yeah, Ray. I can see the fight to be the first in line to help out a friend. LMAO.
How are things with you today, Bud. Still the good weather?
“The Yankees can spend $215 million on payroll due to their revenue being $440 million. No other club comes close. They make about $25 million in profit and certainly could make more if they cut payroll to other clubs level. Except for one thing. New York wouldn’t tolerate it and revenues would drop precipitously.”
Yes yes and yes.
Fran the original February 22nd, 2011 at 7:02 pm
GB, we’d never desert you.
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Fran, I can just see all of you guys, “Hey…I ain’t gonna get the venom out of there.” The only fight would be over who gets my lighter and cigarettes.
So you’re admitting you’d kill the Yankee franchise to save the Marlins? All a salary cap does is put more money in the owners pockets.
The point of sports is not to stick franchises everywhere regardless of market size. If a location can’t handle a franchise, get rid of em.
GreenBeret7 February 22nd, 2011 at 7:03 pm
The weather in Charlotte NC has been great! Mid 70s today and sunny. I miss being in the Tampa area though this time of the year. ST would be nice to go too, especially this year.
Now stay away from those cobras now!
blake – it is impossible to separate payroll and players! If you don’t have the payroll you are not going to keep the best players. It’s that simple. You might develop them but you will lose them.
GB
What color lighter? LOL!
blake – it is impossible to separate payroll and players! If you don’t have the payroll you are not going to keep the best players. It’s that simple. You might develop them but you will lose them.
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If the players are good enough they will be lost regardless of salary cap.
Jerkface -
I agree with you. There are far too many franchises at this point. Some markets are unsustainable, some owners are cheap, but in any event, the talent pool is stretched over the limit. THAT is why MLB opened up the international drafts – the talent pool in the US couldn’t support the number of teams.
A Salary cap didn’t stop Shaq from leaving Orlando, Lebron from leaving Cleveland.
NBA rosters change so much you’re better off not getting attached to players. Franchises get crippled by big contracts just the same as MLB, and then have to orchestrate crazy trades to try and get free, while other franchises simply spend over the ‘soft cap’ and pay luxury tax.
Just a silver Zippo with “Fighting Irish” on one side and Special Fprces insignia on the other, Ray.
I know that you’re just dying to get your hands on something with “Fighting Irish” on it.
And of course neither the NFL or the NBA has to deal with the crazy bust rates of players, or the amount of injuries and their affect on the teams.
I would want a salary cap with a guarantee that every team had to spend at least, say, 90 percent of the alloted cap. So I would want that floor Doreen referenced also. Look all I want is less disparity between the top revenue teams and the bottom.
I don’t know a lot about how the NFL does business but I do know that Tom Brady accepted less money so that the team could bring in another needed player. It all had to do with salary cap.
Of course “Special Forces” is spelled correctly
“A Salary cap didn’t stop Shaq from leaving Orlando, Lebron from leaving Cleveland.”
Well since posters are saying that the NBA has a “soft” salary cap or not one in the real sense of the word, I wouldn’t be using them as an example anymore.
Comparative financial statistics are interesting. For instance (2009 figures):
- Yankee revenues totaled $440 million – $201 million payroll – $25 million in profit.
- Red Sux revenues totaled $266 million – $121 million payroll – $40 million in profit.
* The Yankees revenues were $174 million more.
* The Yankees spent $80 million more in payroll.
* The Red Sux made $15 million more in profit and the Yankees won the World Series.
Well since posters are saying that the NBA has a “soft” salary cap or not one in the real sense of the word, I wouldn’t be using them as an example anymore.
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and the NFL salary cap doesn’t stop the redskins from spending 50 million more than everyone else, or the Bucs from spending 70 mil less than everyone else. And the NFL is about to not have a season next year while the owners demand the players make less money.
I wouldn’t consider them either.
And even having a salary cap and floor doesn’t guarantee that small payroll teams will compete, or the playing field will be level. You’d have the marlins signing their young players to crazy long term deals to eat up the cap, or signing crappy veterans to fill cap space. The end result is the same, except that they make less money.
I don’t know a lot about how the NFL does business but I do know that Tom Brady accepted less money so that the team could bring in another needed player. It all had to do with salary cap.
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Players should be paid what they are worth on the open market. Not to mention most of that roster maneuvering just means the players money is deferred or put into a bonus where its spread out against the cap.
And check this out. Whatever happens when there is greater parity happens. I’m just sick of hearing that the Yankees attempt to buy championships every year, which they do. They do because they can. If there is some kind of parity and every player in the world wants to play for the Yankees, so be it. At least other teams have a fighting chance.
Not every other team has the Yankee revenues, not every other team has billionaire owners who aren’t willing to put money into their teams. Those teams I feel sorry for but that’s on their owners. It’s those who genuinely cannot generate enough money for credible payroll, nor revenue as a result of not having a competitive team. It’s like a dog chasing its tail.
It’s those who genuinely cannot generate enough money for credible payroll, nor revenue as a result of not having a competitive team. It’s like a dog chasing its tail.
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Which teams are these exactly? Because the teams with the lowest payrolls have the richest owners.
Half the teams in baseball spend 90 million dollars. That payroll would put the marlins in the red, so either responsibility has to be taken by the team or the MLB should axe the franchise.
It’s still like a dog chasing its tail. How can you force a team to spend when they can’t generate the revenues because they can’t put fans in the seats because they don’t have the players that would bring the fans to the games? And why should they be axed because they are victims of finances?