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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Business as usual for Sabathia’s spring debut

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 28, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Yankees weren’t looking for CC Sabathia to break any new ground this afternoon. They just wanted the same old Sabathia on the mound, healthy and effective through his first two spring training innings.

“Really good,” Joe Girardi said. “Strikes down. Changeup. (We were) pleased. He went out and just did his business, kind of what we expect from CC and get used to.”

Sabathia said it was business as usual with his surgically repaired right knee. He pitched two scoreless innings, then ran afterward, and never had a problem.

“Coming out of the bullpen and being fresh for the first inning, and handling the amount of work and things in between has gotten a lot easier,” he said.

As for his actual work on the mound, Sabathia said he was especially pleased with his fastball command.

“Usually it takes me a while to get it,” he said. “I’m cutting balls and (leaving pitches) up and away, but to have it pretty good this early, I can start working on my other pitches. And I still need to get opposite arm side in to righties, but that will just take a little while.”

Being able to worry about those sort of specifics at this point seems to be a good sign for Sabathia and the Yankees.

Associated Press photo

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127 Responses to “Business as usual for Sabathia’s spring debut”

  1. BeholdArNo February 28th, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    First!

  2. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    Really?

  3. blake February 28th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    I would also rather trade Joba than Nova if for no other reason than Nova is a starter. Nova may not have a spot in the Yankees future rotation but he would now and he can help them in 2011…..so can Joba but in a lesser role.

  4. Carl February 28th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    Good to hear.

    CC usually walks a few in spring.

    0 today.

  5. tk February 28th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 5:12 pm
    Really?
    _______________

    So you need a “stat” to tell you he was first? Why can’t you just trust your eyes?

  6. timmyb72 February 28th, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    Boy the pitching so far this ST has gone according to how pundits and scouts and past performance has predicted. The Killer B’s look dominant so far, the 2 starters Nova and CC look great, the ones penciled in to be in the starting bullpen have looked good, while the 2 Rule 5′s Turpin and Fish, look like they will be in the group of the first players cut this spring.

  7. joeman February 28th, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    If they can get Francisco Liriano for either joba or Nova and other pieces it’s a no brainer

  8. Betsy February 28th, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    I read some tweets by Buster earlier and he sounded very impressed with Banuelos; too bad today’s game was not on tv – and too bad tomorrows game is not as well. Still, CC looking good was the most important thing to come out of the game given his off-season knee surgery.

  9. pat February 28th, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    pgammo The world lost one of its great men today when my friend Harvey Dorfman passed away. We celebrate all he did to help others

    RIP to a man who has impacted the lives of more professional athletes than anyone will ever know.

  10. SJ44 February 28th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    Harvey Dorfman was a great man.

    Peter is right, there are hundreds of players in sports whose careers he helped and, in many cases, saved.

    He will be greatly missed.

  11. joeman February 28th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    Liriano would move this team back into being favorites to win the AL

  12. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    So you need a “stat” to tell you he was first? Why can’t you just trust your eyes?

    :x funny, but I just hate people mindlessly posting ‘first!’ , but I guess my post was equally useless.

  13. Betsy February 28th, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    Liriano is a very good pitcher and he’s better than anyone on the Yanks staff other than CC, but I wouldn’t touch him with a ten foot pole. There’s a reason why the Twins would be trading him, their only real power pitcher -and given that, I’m not about to give up anything of real value for him.

    Santana? The idea of that is pretty hilarious. Even if the Mets would trade him here, I wouldn’t touch him with a 20 foot pole given his health problems over the past couple of years.

  14. blake February 28th, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    RIP Mr Dorfman. I’ve posted this before I think but a friend of mine knew him and he called me once when I was struggling in college when he found out about it…..talked to me for over an hour at no charge just about the game and gave me some really great advice. So he not only did a lot for pro athletes but Im guessing Im not the only nobody college or high school guy that he took time out of his day to help. Sad day….

  15. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    It is way too easy for people who are not thinking objectively to create a narrative that fits their arguments purpose, based on their own biases, while completely ignoring the data which points in the opposite direction.

  16. m February 28th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    Great stuff, our pitching esp opening day roster guys look good early on.

  17. joeman February 28th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    # Betsy February 28th, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    Liriano is a very good pitcher and he’s better than anyone on the Yanks staff other than CC, but I wouldn’t touch him with a ten foot pole. There’s a reason why the Twins would be trading him, their only real power pitcher -and given that, I’m not about to give up anything of real value for him.

    Santana? The idea of that is pretty hilarious. Even if the Mets would trade him here, I wouldn’t touch him with a 20 foot pole given his health problems over the past couple of years.
    —————————————-
    you don’t give up joba or Nova and a couple of lesser players for him

  18. joeman February 28th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    CC
    Liriano
    Hughes
    AJ
    ?

  19. timmyb72 February 28th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    I think the group of players to be traded, if there are trades to be made. include Romine, Warren, Brackman, Phelps, Noesi (even though I really like him), Curtis, Laird, Stoneburner, DJ Mitchell, Adams, Heathcott, Cervelli, Joseph, Suttle, Brett Marshall, J.R. Murphy.

    Right now Banuelos/Betances/Montero/Nova/Joba/Sanchez are off limits to me. I might include Joba in the right situation and then bring up Betances or Brackman to replace him in the bullpen but would be really hesitant to include him.

    I could see a Brackman/Romine/Adams/Warren or Joba/Adams/Warren/Heathcott or similar scenario for an injury prone Liriano, but I am not giving up another starter ala Nova or the Killer B’s or Montero for him.

  20. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    Michael Bourn only had 2 stolen bases all year against the Cardinals in 2010. This is in 60 PA and he had a .383 OBP. 22 of his steals came against the pirates and brewers and cubs.

  21. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    Great stuff, our pitching esp opening day roster guys look good early on.

    Its been pretty exciting to see good stuff out of the proposed starters AND the big time prospects behind them. Hope they keep it up.

  22. m February 28th, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    If it’s truly a possibly and doesn’t hurt (blue chip wise), then Liriano might be worth the risk. It’d be the difference between Steady Freddy Garcia and Liriano.

    But if it’s just internet fodder, then I’m not going to get excited.

  23. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    Adam Warren is a very twins type of pitcher, pounds the zone with 3 types of fastballs. They’d probably have him in the majors this year.

  24. joeman February 28th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    I’m a believer this trade is going to happen sooner than later this ST

  25. m February 28th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    Yes, definitely nice to see the top prospects making good first impressions!

  26. mick February 28th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    Joba is not a starter now for sure but that doesn’t mean another team can’t view him as such.
    The best, most expedient way to showcase him, is as a reliever.
    Others will see if he is throwing well and convert him to a starter.
    Cash knows what he is doing.

  27. BoJo February 28th, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    It is way too easy for people who are not thinking objectively to create a narrative that fits their arguments purpose, based on their own biases, while completely ignoring the data which points in the opposite direction.
    _______________
    add to that citing past data without the context of any new information that could predict a different outcome…

    Examples include assuming Liriano will be lights out here when other data suggest he could easily blow out his arm…

    Or saying Santana is useless when his surgery–according to the experts–should actually improve his shoulder strength to stronger than before he wore it down in the last 3 years

    Or saying that Joba will never start because of a shoulder problem when new data suggests he built up his shoulder strength and rediscovered his mecahnics.

    People get locked in to old data.

  28. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    The Catcher’s competition has been pretty great too. Montero’s very impressive debut, Cervelli is doing well, Martin with some great ABs today, and then Romine pulling up the rear.

  29. SJ44 February 28th, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    I’d be careful about trading Ivan Nova.

    Everybody gets caught up in names. Especially Yankee fans.

    However, we are talking about a 24 year old kid who is showing that he could be a pretty darn good starting pitcher. Especially with a good offensive team behind him.

    Kids like that are gold these days. I wouldn’t be so quick to ship him off.

  30. RayVT February 28th, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    trisha ? true pinstriped blue February 28th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    Also using career stats versus prime stats of individuals or even current ones would be more appropriate.

    Rickey Henderson stole 108 bases one year & was caught only 18 times. (He had 622 PA)

    In Rickey?s 1st full season he stole 100 bases & was caught 26 times in 722 PA. Note he was on 1B a total of 267 times and he attempted approximately 126 SB attempts & was successful 80% of the time. In other words he attempted to steal 50% of the time. (I don?t know how many times there was a runner on 2B.)

  31. joeman February 28th, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    He pitched more innings than either Phil or AJ last year maybe he’s turned the injury corner

  32. mick February 28th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    He pitched more innings than either Phil or AJ last year maybe he’s turned the injury corner
    ======================
    Let him pitch 50 more than we can think about it…

  33. BoJo February 28th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    SJ44–

    Agree 100% about Nova…finally (right?)

  34. SJ44 February 28th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    No doctor guarantees a stronger shoulder after shoulder surgery. If he is, he’s a quack.

    Shoulders are tricky business and the success rate is less than TJ Surgery, which has an 80% success rate.

    For many medical reasons that Joe from LI can discuss, shoulder surgery is an entirely different proposition than elbow ligament replacement surgery.

  35. West Coast Yankee Fan February 28th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    The Joba obsession is really getting comical. The guy is a middle reliever. That’s it, no matter what fans want to speculate about.

  36. J. Alfred Prufrock February 28th, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    mick February 28th, 2011 at 5:42 pm
    Joba is not a starter now for sure but that doesn’t mean another team can’t view him as such.
    The best, most expedient way to showcase him, is as a reliever.
    Others will see if he is throwing well and convert him to a starter.
    Cash knows what he is doing.

    ///
    If he really knew what he was doing,Chamberlain would have been the fourth starter last year with no innings restrictions.
    ///

    I wouldn’t deal Nova for Liriano because that’s too good a young arm that can help now for an injury risk pitcher. I WOULD trade JOBA for him, though, because the Yanks have already blown it with Joba and now their arrogance and/’or something else off the wall won’t allow them to reverse gears on him.

    The point is, why WOULDN’T you trade a guy who is relegated to MIDDLE RELIEF for a top left-handed starter who had upper percentile strikeout rates?

  37. joeman February 28th, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    # mick February 28th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    He pitched more innings than either Phil or AJ last year maybe he’s turned the injury corner
    ======================
    Let him pitch 50 more than we can think about it…
    —————————————————————————————–
    when he gets here everyone will be on board with the move don’t anyone kid themselves

  38. Betsy February 28th, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    Nova still has to prove it over the course of a long season; we saw glimpses of pretty good pitcher last year, but don’t people always warn not to believe what you see in September? He’s someone I might consider trading for Liriano, but only “might” at this point because I wonder about the Twins’ motivation for trading Liriano.

  39. GreenBeret7 February 28th, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    Ledger_Yankees Star Ledger
    Prior retired the side in order. Got a strikeout on a splitter. But wasn’t happy with breaking stuff. #nyy

  40. mick February 28th, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    The Joba obsession is really getting comical. The guy is a middle reliever
    ================
    Today he is. Tmw could be different but prob. not here.

  41. BoJo February 28th, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    RayVT-

    Henderson under Billy Martin was totally different than the situation Gardner is in with this team. Henderson had to create run opportunities in a poor offense, so he ran whenever he could. Gardner has to consider the offense behind him can score him with timely hitting.

    As far as Trisha’s observations that he didn’t run at times he should have, again I point out his own comments about fatigue and his wrist injury.

  42. 108 stitches February 28th, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    Too soon to start any Liriano trade discussions. Girardi / Cashman need to see what Freddy Garcia can bring with a few outings and the same with Ivan Nova.
    Yankee scouts will be watching Liriano and Twins scouts will be watching Yankee talent in the event they feel their pitching staff in solid enough to make Liriano expendable in late March.

  43. timmyb72 February 28th, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    SJ44 couldn’t agree more, wouldn’t include Nova at this stage of the game for Liriano, too many other pitching prospects that would be offered before Nova.

    Brackman/Warren/Romine/Adams should get the discussions going.

  44. mick February 28th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    when he gets here everyone will be on board with the move don’t anyone kid themselves
    =========================
    nobody cares about our opinions, they mean nuthin….who was right, who was wrong, who’s keeping count?

  45. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 28th, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    Ray, absolutely. If you’re going to rely on cold data at least try to think beyond your nose to make it meaningful in terms of the discussion. Too many variables to be able to come up with a bingo in this case. No need to even go there. Many of us saw times when Gardner frozen in place when he was put on to pinch run, and frozen in place when he was on first and the team needed baserunners. Frozen in place is not the hallmark of good base stealing.

    Someone said he recognized it as a problem and said he was going to work on it. Hopefully he can straighten it out.

  46. joeman February 28th, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    # mick February 28th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    when he gets here everyone will be on board with the move don’t anyone kid themselves
    =========================
    nobody cares about our opinions, they mean nuthin….who was right, who was wrong, who’s keeping count?
    —————————————-
    don’t get your panties in a bunch

  47. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    In Rickey?s 1st full season he stole 100 bases & was caught 26 times in 722 PA. Note he was on 1B a total of 267 times and he attempted approximately 126 SB attempts & was successful 80% of the time. In other words he attempted to steal 50% of the time. (I don?t know how many times there was a runner on 2B.)

    Rickey is ridiculous, he did have 1 season where he stole in 70% of the opportunities afforded. And 2 where he stole 60% and 50%. However, he also had these seasons at a younger age than Gardner. From age 27 on his attempts per opportunity dropped to below 40% and never went back up to such lofty heights.

    Gardner is already 27. He doesn’t have young legs. Speed is something you’re born with, and it slowly decreases over time. And as I said when I brought up Ricky. You can’t compare him to the best base stealer of all time.

  48. Vineyard Yankee February 28th, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    Santana is owed almost $ 100 million dollars for the remaining 4 years of his contract. There is a possibility that he may not pitch at all in 2011.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09…..ntana.html

    Whether the Mets are having a fire sale or a rummage sale I doubt that Cashman & Co. will be interested in Santana with his recovery in doubt and he being owed $ 100 mil.

    Why in the world would Cashman be interested ? The NYY system has plenty of ‘young’ prospects that are close to being ready. Follow thru with the patience plan.

  49. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    and frozen in place when he was on first and the team needed baserunners.

    One would say that if the team needed base runners, and Gardner was on first, he would infact be a baserunner. If the team needs base runners the last thing you want is to get thrown out.

  50. timmyb72 February 28th, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    If Joba is going to be the 2008/09 Joba and be dominating in ST, I don’t deal him either. a dominating Joba in the BP is a real weapon to have, Yanks have lots and lots of prospects to make a deal for Liriano without including Nova or Joba imo.

  51. m February 28th, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    Most Yankee fans would not want to trade away a Liriani to get back a Joba. Do you really think Twins fans are getting excited at the prospect of doing that? Their best starter for a middle reliever? ;)

  52. mick February 28th, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    The point is, why WOULDN’T you trade a guy who is relegated to MIDDLE RELIEF for a top left-handed starter who had upper percentile strikeout rates?
    ========================================
    I think this is Cash’s strategy.
    Why audition him again as a starter when he can show off his arm in spurts as a reliever.
    Why expose him again as a starter when you can wow a team with one inning dynamite innings?

  53. J. Alfred Prufrock February 28th, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan February 28th, 2011 at 5:49 pm
    The Joba obsession is really getting comical. The guy is a middle reliever. That’s it, no matter what fans want to speculate about.

    ///
    What aren’t you getting WC? The Yankees made a very bad decision in a lot of people’s opinion.They tossed in the towel on a guy who blew away hitters AS A STARTER in 2008, and had some success even in 2009, the year they just gave up on him as such.The Yanks have decided he’s a MR. But there are people who see that as a terrible terrible waste of what could be a great rotational arm, or even a good one. Also people saw him pitch yesterday, and those of us who can actually recognize this saw a return to an earlier, way more effective Joba. Forget his lowering his hands, it’s what comes next, and that’s fastball movement and location, working fast, etc.Now why wouldn’t an intelligent fan see that and say, why is this guy an effin reliever? Who cares that that’s the Yankees decision? The debate and the second-guessing are gonna continue because of what people think the team is missin out on. Like I said, it’s like having Arthur Rubenstein in the house and having him play chopsticks. Why you can’t get this I don’t really know.

  54. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 28th, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    I’m all for seeing what Freddy Garcia has left in the tank. I’m thinking that he is really going to have good stuff. We have more than enough pitching for try outs at this point. I don’t give up a hair of Yankee head to anybody the third day in spring training. Not with the players when have in camp.

    But that’s just me. Patient and steady.

  55. joeman February 28th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    Do the Yankees have a better chance to win with Nova or a 27 year old Liriano ?

  56. BoJo February 28th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    SJ44 February 28th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    No doctor guarantees a stronger shoulder after shoulder surgery. If he is, he’s a quack.

    Shoulders are tricky business and the success rate is less than TJ Surgery, which has an 80% success rate.

    For many medical reasons that Joe from LI can discuss, shoulder surgery is an entirely different proposition than elbow ligament replacement surgery.
    ______________
    And there are different types of shoulder surgery.

    From his own mouth, Santana said: “he is “optimistic” his career will not be affected by the injury—it was a tear in the anterior capsule, which he said is not a common ailment.” (You can google quote for link).

    I’ll post the link about the resulting expectations of a stronger shoulder in a moment.

  57. mick February 28th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    Liriano has not been consistent, prob. due to injuries.
    That seems to be the hangup.

  58. Vineyard Yankee February 28th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    This must be what Bojo / Brad thinking:

    ‘Joba will eventually be the #1 starter in play-offs and lead Yankees to many WS championships. His stuff is as good as Beckett’s, and better than any other play-off pitcher…..

    —————

    It’s too bad that Joba is a 5th / 6th inning RP on the Yankees. LOL !

  59. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    In ‘Late and Close’ situations, Gardner attempted a steal 60% of the time. 37% in tie games. Note that these don’t factor in ‘opportunities’, so this is the minimum amount he could have stolen, if batters reached ahead of him these numbers go up!

  60. mick February 28th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    Meanwhile….How about them Knicks???!!!!

  61. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    All the ‘stronger shoulder/arm’ effects from surgery don’t come from the surgery itself, but the fact that the pitcher undergoes severe rehab that strenghtens the area. Rehab activities which are not normally practiced due to their time consuming and strenuous nature. IF every pitcher rehabbed their shoulder/arm like they had surgery, they’d gain a mph or two.

  62. RayVT February 28th, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    I thought you brought up Henderson to start with. Sorry if you didn’t. I was trying to say lifetime stats don’t really apply.

  63. mick February 28th, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    Knicks looked like the better team last night…deeper than the Heat.

  64. joeman February 28th, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    # mick February 28th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    Liriano has not been consistent, prob. due to injuries.
    That seems to be the hangup.
    ———————————————————
    he did for the most part have a injury free year last year with 31 starts

  65. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 28th, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    Maybe both, but I definitely stay with Nova as long as he keeps showing that he’s got the stuff.

    **********

    Here is my starting rotation as of right now.

    CC
    AJ
    Phil
    Nova
    Garcia

    not necessarily in that order

    Mitre for spot starts

    One ass-kicking bullpen that is already in place.

    You haven’t given up a thing and you are world-series ready!

    That said, you are going to know in short order who has what left between Colon and Garcia. If it appears there is nothing, a la Chad Gaudin last year, then you talk about a move. You do NOT talk about a move without knowing whether you need to talk about a move!

    ******************

    That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. I like to KIS and I am also looking forward to the opportunity as a Yankee fan to show that the Yankees don’t have to buy up the world to get the job done.

  66. Vineyard Yankee February 28th, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    mick February 28th, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    I think it is doubtful The Twins will just ‘give him up’………..most likely they will ask for a kings ransom knowing the retreads the Yankees brought into camp to audition as the 4th and 5th starters. Smith isn’t an idiot.

  67. SJ44 February 28th, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    Why would Santana say anything otherwise?

    Of course he is going to say that.

    Let’s see him pitch before we decide he’s “stronger” after shoulder surgery.

  68. mick February 28th, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    Yanks should consider packaging Jorge Vazquez and a AA pitcher for Liriano.

  69. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    I thought you brought up Henderson to start with. Sorry if you didn’t. I was trying to say lifetime stats don’t really apply.

    Its easier to use career stats, if I wanted to cherry pick a single season for Gardner, I could look at 90 where he stole 27% of the opportunities afforded.

  70. BoJo February 28th, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    All the ‘stronger shoulder/arm’ effects from surgery don’t come from the surgery itself, but the fact that the pitcher undergoes severe rehab that strenghtens the area. Rehab activities which are not normally practiced due to their time consuming and strenuous nature. IF every pitcher rehabbed their shoulder/arm like they had surgery, they’d gain a mph or two.
    ______________
    Excellent point. And the article I am searching for indicates that the experts feel Santana will have a better fastball than he has had in the last 3 years…plus the ability to put more delineation between fastball and change than in last 3 years as well.

    To me, that sounds like a Cy Young level pitcher…and a lefty who has proven he can pitch on big stage in NYC.

  71. GreenBeret7 February 28th, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    Miguel Cabrera balloons from 240 to 270 and barely a word.

  72. J. Alfred Prufrock February 28th, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    mick February 28th, 2011 at 5:56 pm
    The point is, why WOULDN’T you trade a guy who is relegated to MIDDLE RELIEF for a top left-handed starter who had upper percentile strikeout rates?
    ========================================
    I think this is Cash’s strategy.
    Why audition him again as a starter when he can show off his arm in spurts as a reliever.
    Why expose him again as a starter when you can wow a team with one inning dynamite innings?
    ///

    Yea God forbid he go back to bein the starter he was in 2008 or the one right after the All-Star Break in 2009 who mowed down the Rays, Jays and Tigers all in a row. That’s really “expose” him.

  73. SJ44 February 28th, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    I just saw Miguel Cabrera. He looks like Cecil Fielder.

    He’s 270 pounds. When he was called up by the Marlins in 2003, he was 190 pounds.

    If this kid doesn’t get a handle on his drinking, he’s going to blow a HOF career.

  74. RayVT February 28th, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    Jerkface

    Gardner is already 27. He doesn?t have young legs. Speed is something you?re born with, and it slowly decreases over time. And as I said when I brought up Ricky. You can?t compare him to the best base stealer of all time.

    Actually at age 29 Rikey stole 93 bases and was caught only 13 times. He was on 1B 216 times & attempted 106 SB & was successful over 90% of the time.

    At age 39 he stole stole 66 bases and was caught only 13 times. He was on 1B 220 times & attempted 79 SB & was successful over 80% of the time.

  75. m February 28th, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    Well, to be fair, Cabrera’s got other, bigger issues to deal with.

  76. J. Alfred Prufrock February 28th, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    Vineyard Yankee February 28th, 2011 at 6:01 pm
    This must be what Bojo / Brad thinking:

    ‘Joba will eventually be the #1 starter in play-offs and lead Yankees to many WS championships. His stuff is as good as Beckett’s, and better than any other play-off pitcher…..

    —————

    It’s too bad that Joba is a 5th / 6th inning RP on the Yankees. LOL !

    ///

    LOL! Joba would pitch circles around Fat Josh as a No. 3. What’d your boy Josh do btw, throw at himself?

  77. West Coast Yankee Fan February 28th, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock February 28th, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan February 28th, 2011 at 5:49 pm
    The Joba obsession is really getting comical. The guy is a middle reliever. That’s it, no matter what fans want to speculate about.
    ///
    What aren’t you getting WC? The Yankees made a very bad decision in a lot of people’s opinion.They tossed in the towel on a guy who blew away hitters AS A STARTER in 2008, and had some success even in 2009, the year they just gave up on him as such.The Yanks have decided he’s a MR.

    **************

    Yes I know you believe that, it’s a legitimate difference of opinion but just keeps on going on and on and on even after the decision has been made by Cashman and the Yankees.

    I don’t agree with you that the Yankees made a bad decision and neither do the Yankees and many, many Yankee fans. No one gave up on him. He hurt his shoulder and has not been the same pitcher since, and the powers that be evaluated him and decided that with the decreased velocity and other issues he is a relief pitcher now. He was given a chance to be the 8th inning bridge to Mo and didn’t succeed in that role. Why do you think he’s pitching the sixth inning? Why do you think they went out and got Wood last year and Soriano this year? Because they want to spend the money? Why do you think they have been so declarative as to Joba’s role and despite the need for starting pitchers after Lee and Pettitte went away — still won’t go Joba’s way. Think about it.

  78. mick February 28th, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    Yea God forbid he go back to bein the starter he was in 2008 or the one right after the All-Star Break in 2009 who mowed down the Rays, Jays and Tigers all in a row. That’s really “expose” him.
    ============================
    Thanks for making my point.
    He might succeed as a starter but prolly not here.

  79. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    Actually at age 29 Rikey stole 93 bases and was caught only 13 times.

    He had 239 opportunities to steal. 44%. At age 39, he had 268 opportunities, which is 29%.

  80. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 28th, 2011 at 6:14 pm

    I’d like to add in one final thing. Seriously. Not one of us here knows where Joba’s future lies, regardless of what we think it will be or we want it to be. So please stop with the arrogance when it comes to telling others what Joba WILL do or WILL be. We don’t all look through the same prism. There is nothing wrong with posters believing that Joba will be nothing more than a 5th or 6th inning guy, nor is there anything wrong with posters believing that Joba still has starter potential and may end up some day in a starter role with the Yankees. The point is you don’t know. There are posters here who feel the organization really screwed Joba up with the way they utilized him, and there are posters here who feel that the organization did no wrong and that it was Joba who dropped the ball – so to speak.

    Each to her or his own on this one, okay? I think it’s always fine to take a strong position and say it’s your position but at least respect that it’s just that – an opinion.

  81. mick February 28th, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    Joba for Liriano could happen. Two injured pitchers. Twins save money, Yanks take a gamble.

  82. GreenBeret7 February 28th, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    SJ, he’s huge…in the middle and in the backside. If Detroit was smart, they’d get him off of the field until he loses 20 pounds to start with. Even at 6’3″ or 6’4″, that’s way too much. If he doesn’t, he’ll blow out a hamstring or a knee. Get him to a minimun of 250 by May and about 230 by ASB. They just showed him running/waddling to first. Not pretty.

  83. J. Alfred Prufrock February 28th, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    Why do you think they have been so declarative as to Joba’s role and despite the need for starting pitchers after Lee and Pettitte went away — still won’t go Joba’s way. Think about it.

    ///

    Um, because they’re STOOO-PID?? Think about it.

  84. RayVT February 28th, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    Lou Brock at age 35 stole 118 bases and was caught only 33 times. He was on 1B 222 times & attempted 151 SB & was successful over 75% of the time.

  85. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    Not one of us here knows where Joba’s future lies, regardless of what we think it will be or we want it to be. So please stop with the arrogance when it comes to telling others what Joba WILL do or WILL be.

    Is that the same arrogance as you KNOWING exactly how bad a basestealer Brett Gardner is?

  86. BeholdArNo February 28th, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    SJ

    About yesterday, no hard feelings?

    So you are a real fan of the Heat. That’s not the case for most attendees of Heat games.

    Thing is, you were dead wrong with 2 of your assertions: 1. The Carmelo deal doesn’t do much for the Knicks in the future. 2. The Knicks gave up half their team to get him.

    You knew you were wrong and you were just hating on the Knicks. I do not know why, as the Heat have a title in the decade.

    If the Heat truly are Lebron’s team, he’s going to have to get better at shooting from the perimeter, or he’s going to have to take the ball the basket every time and either get himself easy points or other teammates open opportunities; oh, and hit free throws.

  87. BoJo February 28th, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    BTW–Regarding Santana–

    Here is a comment from Tim Hudson regarding his similiar recovery:

    “Hudson stops short of calling his elbow reconstruction a fortuitous event, but he concedes that his time away from the field might have done him some good.

    “If you’re in your 30s and you have a major surgery, you’re obviously concerned,” Hudson said. “But for an older guy going through Tommy John, you have a year to let your body kind of recharge and get stronger. It’s almost like you take a pit stop for a year. You can get your elbow redone and get everything else good to go.””

    Santana will not only be rehabbing his shoulder, but also giving his knee and elbow more time to recover from the comaparatively minor surgeries he had on them. I suspect he will be a very good pitcher in 2012 onward, and I would love to see the Yankees acquire him.

  88. J. Alfred Prufrock February 28th, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    Nothin wrong with a big butt. Such is the stuff power hitters are made of.

  89. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    Lou Brock at age 35 stole 118 bases and was caught only 33 times. He was on 1B 222 times & attempted 151 SB & was successful over 75% of the time.

    He had 299 opportunities, and the year was 1974.

  90. pat February 28th, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    “Well, to be fair, Cabrera’s got other, bigger issues to deal with.”

    The issues are likely inter-related so there will be a trickle down effect if the biggest issue is addressed first.

  91. m February 28th, 2011 at 6:18 pm

    The blog would SCREECH to a halt if there were moratorium on talk of Joba’s future. :P

  92. mick February 28th, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    you got that right m.

  93. BoJo February 28th, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    Jerkface–why are you picking on Trisha? She’s great…fair…nice person.

    I respect your knowledge and insight and analytical mind a great deal, so this puzzles me.

  94. m February 28th, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    pat,

    That’s true. But if Cabrera had just showed up fat instead of a fat with a DUI arrest then they’d most likely be talking about how he’s as big as a house.

  95. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    Because Trisha is not a good person

  96. West Coast Yankee Fan February 28th, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock February 28th, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    Why do you think they have been so declarative as to Joba’s role and despite the need for starting pitchers after Lee and Pettitte went away — still won’t go Joba’s way. Think about it.

    Um, because they’re STOOO-PID?? Think about it.

    **********

    OK. That’s the reason because they are stupid? Come on. Seriously. It defies credulity to think that the entire Yankee organization has not discussed Joba internally in great detail. It’s not one person who decided this – I am sure Cashman and his staff and all the various player development, personnel and scouts had their say and that management was involved too.

    There is a reason, probably many reasons they don’t want to go there.

  97. BoJo February 28th, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    Because Trisha is not a good person
    ___________
    ???

    I’ve known her from over 10 years ago, and she has always been a kind and giving person…she only kicks when kicked, and generally brightens up the blog whenever hse appears.

    I hope you’ll consider that perspective from an older fan.

  98. mick February 28th, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    NEW====>>>>>>>

  99. Vineyard Yankee February 28th, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock February 28th, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    LOL! Joba would pitch circles around Fat Josh as a No. 3. What’d your boy Josh do btw, throw at himself?

    —————–

    This must be what Bojo / Brad thinking:

    ‘Joba will eventually be the #1 starter in play-offs and lead Yankees to many WS championships. His stuff is as good as Beckett’s, and better than any other play-off pitcher…..

    —————

    So ask Bojo / Brad / George yourself, its his quote.

  100. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 28th, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    Bojo he talks and then thinks. He throws whatever he can out hoping something will stick to the wall. Then he will talk all around it once he’s been exposed as a fraud on issues. He will make up anything he can because he can’t bear the thought of appearing wrong. Note the ridiculous comparison to discussion about Joba and people noticing that Gardner has had trouble knowing when to steal bases – something that Gardner himself talked about.

    Jerkface likes to go out on limbs & then change directions trying to make others look dumb when his point his been disproven.

    I’m used to the drill.

  101. RayVT February 28th, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    It isn’t cherry picking when the stats for a career (Gardner) is 1.5 years & a lot of his steals were for PR the 1st year and didn’t require an AB. He isn’t in the same class as the best, which you tried to say he was. He may get there mind you because I believe he is probably the fastest guy in the game.

  102. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    I’ve known her from over 10 years ago, and she has always been a kind and giving person…she only kicks when kicked, and generally brightens up the blog whenever hse appears.

    I hope you’ll consider that perspective from an older fan.

    Maybe she had better mental health 10 years ago.

  103. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 6:29 pm

    It isn’t cherry picking when the stats for a career (Gardner) is 1.5 years & a lot of his steals were for PR the 1st year and didn’t require an AB. He isn’t in the same class as the best, which you tried to say he was.

    First of all, stolen base opportunities do not take into account ‘ABs’. Its only when you are on a base with the next base open, so pinch running is included. That goes for Crawford and anyone else.

    And he is in the same class as the best *in this era*.

  104. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 6:29 pm

    And stolen base opportunities will also include fielders choices where Gardner/whoever reaches base with an out, reaching on error, and everything else.

  105. BoJo February 28th, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    Trisha–

    From my perspective, I think Jerkface brings a great deal to the blog in his POV. For example, his examples about Gardner questiont he comment that Gardner is not as good as he could be. I don’t see him making a final pronouncement either way–just questioning the assertion. I love that! It helps strengthen the argument for the other person.

    In all the threads I have read, I always look for his comments as a way to gain a new perspective, where as I know to avoid comments from trolls like VY and WCYF as having no value other than trying to start arguments.

  106. J. Alfred Prufrock February 28th, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    m February 28th, 2011 at 6:18 pm
    The blog would SCREECH to a halt if there were moratorium on talk of Joba’s future.

    ////
    it is a controversial decision the yanks have made and worthy of debate.If Joba were in the pitching version of the old folks’ home, in the twilight of his career or retired, THEN it would be a stupid topic. He’s not even close to his prime yet. Discussing what his role should be, and not just throwing up pom poms to cheer the sheer wonder of his role as a lower middle class reliever,is why sites like this exist.

  107. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 28th, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    Bojo, he’s already admitted that he fights with just about everyone, starts arguments, and calls people names, speaking of mental health.

    That isn’t someone whose judgment on anything I would take to heart.

    I’d say his take on me not being a good person is likely in such a minority here as not to be counted.

    But thanks for the support. It’s much appreciated.

  108. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    I have no issue with wanting Gardner to improve. Every player should strive for improvement. Its when the discussion seems to make incorrect sweeping generalizations (gardner waits too long to steal, gardner doesnt steal enough, other base stealers steal against everyone) that I point to the facts.

    Which is that Gardner steals in the same grouping as guys like Bourn, Pierre, and Crawford, at a better success rate.

  109. J. Alfred Prufrock February 28th, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    Vineyard Yankee February 28th, 2011 at 6:26 pm
    J. Alfred Prufrock February 28th, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    LOL! Joba would pitch circles around Fat Josh as a No. 3. What’d your boy Josh do btw, throw at himself?

    —————–

    This must be what Bojo / Brad thinking:

    ‘Joba will eventually be the #1 starter in play-offs and lead Yankees to many WS championships. His stuff is as good as Beckett’s, and better than any other play-off pitcher…..

    —————

    So ask Bojo / Brad / George yourself, its his quote.

    ///
    Nope buddy boy,I’m not gonna work that hard.You put a comment under your name I take it prima facie.I’m not gonna play detective about some interpersonal game you’re playin out on this blog. Joba is better than Fat Josh seven days a week.

  110. BoJo February 28th, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    Well JF–I for one would hope that you join me in picking on other people more worthy of your disdain…you know who they are, and you do a great job making htem look dumb.

    Trisha is solid. A good person. Trust me on that please..

  111. BoJo February 28th, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    I have no issue with wanting Gardner to improve. Every player should strive for improvement. Its when the discussion seems to make incorrect sweeping generalizations (gardner waits too long to steal, gardner doesnt steal enough, other base stealers steal against everyone) that I point to the facts.
    _______________
    I love the fact that you question everything. More people should do that.

  112. West Coast Yankee Fan February 28th, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    Let it be known who once again started crap. Not me, I’m talking baseball. Yet here he goes again, unwarranted and with zero provocation:

    *******************

    BoJo February 28th, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    “……..In all the threads I have read, I always look for his comments as a way to gain a new perspective, where as I know to avoid comments from trolls like VY and WCYF as having no value other than trying to start arguments.”

  113. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    Bojo, I’ve been here long enough to know enough how she posts. So no, don’t think I’m going to not call her out when she says something warranting it.

  114. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 28th, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    Bojo, I would never stop anyone from respecting someone else’s opinion. I would just counsel that you check on what he throws out. For example in a discussion the other day about salary cap and helping out teams with smaller payrolls he immediately jumped in with the comment that they didn’t need the help because the richest owners have the smallest payrolls. Well just the opposite happens to be the case with all teams except one. So the point is if his constant “assertions” go unchecked, you could be on the primrose path to the wrong answer all the time.

    I don’t pay attention to anything he puts out there. Anyone who can’t have any kind of intelligent discussion without pointing to cold stats to me doesn’t have much to add to anything.

  115. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 28th, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    Bojo, thanks but really, the guy creeps me out. I don’t want someone like him on my side. Again, I’m used to his games. I ignore them. He will always find someone else to argue with, debate, and call names.

  116. BoJo February 28th, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    Well–I like you both, and would wish you could get along…but understand if it is not meant to be.

    Sometimes oil and water just don’t mix.

  117. Vineyard Yankee February 28th, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock February 28th, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    Good for you, I’m not one to rail for Joba as a SP. If you were following the thread you would have seen that. Joba is a 5th or 6th inning guy and that sucks…………..for him.

  118. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    Amusing that I’m the creep, when you were best friends with CR9. Very amusing.

  119. BoJo February 28th, 2011 at 6:43 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan February 28th, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    Let it be known who once again started crap. Not me, I’m talking baseball. Yet here he goes again, unwarranted and with zero provocation:
    ___________
    Really? Go back and look at how many things you and your sock puppet said today to try to draw me in….you’re useless and a waste of time. I just point out the obvious.

    You think you’re being sly that you can post things to annoy me that others won’t recognize…but I really don’t care. After fighting you for over a year, I realize you are a moron, and your opinion either comes from an article you read or it is totally worthless.

    That is why I ignore you…you add no value.

  120. Vineyard Yankee February 28th, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    BoJo February 28th, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    That’s really too bad Brad / George that you brought up your Joba SP idea again as I’m sure you can tell most think that the ship has sailed on Joba. Your Santana idea is almost as good though. LMAO !

  121. Vineyard Yankee February 28th, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    CR9 = Bojo

  122. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 28th, 2011 at 6:47 pm

    Vineyard, there are others here who think Joba could and should be considered as a starter. Who’s to say which side is correct? Stranger things have happened. Not everybody looks at things the same way. I certainly understand arguments on both side, though I too feel that with the proper handling Joba could definitely have potential to go back as a starter.

  123. Jerkface February 28th, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    Vineyard, there are others here who think Joba could and should be considered as a starter. Who’s to say which side is correct?

    If only we could transmute this to another argument, about the #4 best basestealer in the majors.

  124. BoJo February 28th, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    Trisha–
    VY is a jerk who just tries to bait me so I could look bad, and John can then post his little cry-baby posts like on this and next thread. He adds no value and isn’t worth dignifying with a reply.

    That is pretty much how we ran Redfish and BoobyCa off the other board. We ignored them so much that they imploded and did crazy things that got them banned and deleted.

  125. Vineyard Yankee February 28th, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    Trisha:

    You are right about that, there are two sides to every discussion. Possibly down the road with another team he may get that opportunity, I just don’t think it will be with the Yankees. This year would have been the perfect time with Andy retired and Lee in Phily.

    On the other hand watching the young kids step up is exciting and something to definitely look forward to. It is a great feeling as a fan to know we have really good young talent in the pipeline. I hope we hang on to it so we can see them produce on the big club.

  126. Vineyard Yankee February 28th, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    George / Brad:

    Keep your foul attitute to yourself. As usual when you make inane cooments you will get called on it. It’s called a discussion ( two sides ) Joba, Santana, Cano for Hill, Chapman, ARod etc……………..Your list is endless. LMAOAY !

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