Gathering information in Hughes second start
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 06, 2011 
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Phil Hughes didn’t realize it until after the game, but he did not face a single left-handed hitter this afternoon. He knew he hadn’t thrown as many changeups as he would have liked, but it wasn’t until he was talking in the clubhouse that he finally realized the entire Houston lineup was made of right-handed hitters.
Hughes rarely throws his changeup to righties. The fact he threw even one this afternoon — Hughes said it wasn’t a good one, and Carlos Lee hit it for a home run — was partially because new catcher Russell Martin wanted to try some new things to get a feel for his pitcher.
“I was talking to Russell (before the game) and he was like, let’s just gather some information,” Hughes said.
So he threw one not-so-good changeup in an unusual situation, and it was hit hard. Overall, Hughes didn’t seem too upset about his three innings, five hits and three earned runs. One of those hits was a routine fly ball that was lost in the sun, and another was a double that was carried to the wall by the strong wind here in Kissimmee. That double, “really had no business being out there, but the two homers were hit well,” Hughes said.
This was an offensive day — the teams combined for 38 hits, the Yankees won 10-8 — and Hughes said he took some good and some bad from his second spring start.
“I thought that command-wise I was better today,” he said. “I was locating my fastball a little better. I didn’t throw as many changeups as I would have liked. The homer probably got me away from that. Curveball was inconsistent, but my cutter was pretty good today. I took some good things and some bad things away, and hopefully next time is a little bit better.”
Associated Press photo
Watching Rivera on baseball tonight is hilarious. He doesn’t really care for the science of his own pitch.
That’s what ST is for. To work on stuff and gear up for the regular season.
m….Lakers looking like The Two Time World Champions once again…….
FYI: Joba and Curtis Granderson on ESPN right now.
Pure fluff.
Curtis Granderson has a career in broadcasting if he wants to pursue it. You can tell he’s got the charisma for it.
Nick,
Thanks for the heads-up. Got to see Joba’s shout-out to Alex
I missed it. Will there be a replay?
Seems like as per what Hughes said he intends to practice throwing changeups, but somehow always gets away from the plan.
Blake – I think this is wearing thin, but there are great pitchers who happen to pitch in the NL. They’d be great in the AL because they’re great. Vazquez isn’t in that category. NL lineups are way easier to pitch to with a cipher in the nine spot and the set back fences. Not having to face a DH and the circular AL lineups is a significant advantage.
J. Alfred,
There is a difference but you are overstating it…..most DH’s on average really aren’t all that good.
JF, when you return; can you please weigh in on how Alex’s mobility looked at 3B?
, not ;
Pat M,
Looks like they CAN flip on the switch.
But it’s all relative. Pitchers generally can’t hit, which is why you can IBB some guy all day to get yourself out of any trouble. Over and over again, that’s a decided advantage. The parks are pitchers’ parks. If that were irrelevant, you and everyone else wouldn’t be in here nodding that LHP for YS are a big advantage for the home team. Outside of what Philly, the air in Colorado and when the wind’s blowing out at Wrigley, pitchers can get away with mistakes way more in the NL than here.
“Blake – I think this is wearing thin, but there are great pitchers who happen to pitch in the NL. They’d be great in the AL because they’re great. Vazquez isn’t in that category. NL lineups are way easier to pitch to with a cipher in the nine spot and the set back fences. Not having to face a DH and the circular AL lineups is a significant advantage.”
———————–
In 2009 non pitchers hit only .233/.277/.362 .639 OPS off Vazquez.
He had a 4.81 K/BB ratio. Only 31 of his 238 Ks came against pitchers.
In 2010, non pitchers hit .253/.316/.356 .672 OPS off Liriano.
He had a 3.45 K/BB ratio against non pitchers.
# RadioKev March 6th, 2011 at 5:29 pm
Curtis Granderson has a career in broadcasting if he wants to pursue it. You can tell he’s got the charisma for it.
——————
I agree. Torri Hunter is another one who will end up in the broadcast booth somewhere.
Hearing players give color commentary is usually a plus for me. Far better than hearing some of these talking heads who seem like they never even played backyard baseball.
“Outside of what Philly, the air in Colorado and when the wind’s blowing out at Wrigley, pitchers can get away with mistakes way more in the NL than here.”
———————–
Vazquez had a 143 ERA+ in 2009, which is park adjusted.
J Alfred,
Yes there is a difference. Just not enough to make 2009 Javy into 2010 Javy….the change in league wasn’t even close to the biggest factor in his struggles.
Did A-Rod hit a legit bomb today?
In 2009 non pitchers hit only .233/.277/.362 .639 OPS off Vazquez.
He had a 4.81 K/BB ratio. Only 31 of his 238 Ks came against pitchers.
In 2010, non pitchers hit .253/.316/.356 .672 OPS off Liriano.
He had a 3.45 K/BB ratio against non pitchers.
_____
Ugh, is this going to continue. Then: number of AB’s, which pitchers, which ballparks?
Also compare HR/FB and LD’s and GB rates. Liriano’s are all better.
Finally, look at stuff, pitch fx charts, swings and misses, which teams they faced etc. etc. etc.
Jerkface, how did Alex look defensively and generally moving laterally flexibility-wise? Did you notice?
–
He didn’t get many opportunities. Pence’s first double was just a chopper down the line, A-rod ws playing off but didn’t get to it. I wasn’t really paying much attention other than that.
In 2009, the batters Javier Vazquez faced had a .731 OPS on the season.
That .731 OPS was the 11th highest in all of baseball.
Javier Vazquez faced tougher batters than Al East pitchers like CC Sabathia and Jon Lester in 2009.
Only TEN pitchers faced tougher batters.
Prufrock,
Your argument is bunk.
Did A-Rod hit a legit bomb today?
–
420+ feet easy. It cleaned the 410 sign in CF and was still going.
“Knick fans are unquestionably the most knowledgeable fans in the game.”
– Marv Albert
# Jerkface March 6th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
Did A-Rod hit a legit bomb today?
–
420+ feet easy. It cleaned the 410 sign in CF and was still going.
Damn
We can stop…..my only point was that the Yankees had good reasons to trade for Vasquez when they did.
My mistake, I read the chart wrong.
Vazquez faced the 11th toughest batters based on *VORP* not OPS.
I don’t think you can agree with trading Vizcaino for Liriano but be against trading him for Vazquez. In both situations you’re left with a question mark starter and you’ve given up the amazing Arodys Vizcaino (whose control and curveball ARE amazing)
LGY,
Is there any well done research out there that shows the actual difference between the leagues in recent years?
blake,
Not that I know of.
Baseball Prospectus keeps stats based on quality of opponent faced, which can be really helpful when people say things like Felix Hernandez faced crappy competition without anything to back it up or in this discussion with Prufrock saying that Javier Vazquez self combusted because he went to the AL.
Vaz had a 4.81 K/BB ratio against non pitchers in 2009. That’s insane.
You are a Cy Young candidate in any league in the world when you are dominating batters like that.
Arodys pitched 86 innings total for the yankees over 2 seasons, then pitched 85 innings for the braves. He won’t be ready to do join a rotation for at least 3 years FROM NOW. The Yankees got a guy who was absolutely great for basically just Vizcaino. I would trade any SS/Low A pitcher for a guy who is established. Especially when the strength of the system is pitching, we have a lot of guys in the pipeline, and the guy in question isn’t the number 1 pitching prospect on the team.
I’ve asked and people here have said it’s +/- 0.75 runs difference between the two leagues
Ok, let’s call it a day, but have a look at the ballparks Javy pitched in in 2008: Fenway, Yankee Stadium, etc. than compare to the NL parks in 2009. Big difference. Javy got killed in those AL parks.
LGY, they do play down to their competition and that doesn’t speak well for them. I can’t say that they are capable of playing good D when we’re talking about 2 games – that’s just not good enough.
He didn’t get killed in those ballparks in 07.
M,
Yea that sounds about right for team scoring…..I was just wonderinif anyone had attempted to calculate like a conversion ration between the leagues…..say you do this in the AL then you should do this if traded to the NL based on averages etc….?
Betsy,
It was just two examples. They have played well in other games.
I said before they traded for Melo, he just doesn’t seem to put the effort in 82 games a season. Every year I have watched him in the playoffs he has been impressive on the defensive end.
In 2008, Melo was really good on the defensive end when they went to the WCF.
Nick in SF……I have courtside seats for Friday’s 1/4 Finals at Staples……..Not sure if I can make all four games on Thursday though……I’ll be there for UCLA however I’m not certain about the 12:00 Cal / USC game now……Anyway you can make the trip down to LA ??//
The Lakers have been playing possum….
Pat M, highly doubtful that I can make it down, but I’ll let you know if there’s any chance.
I’m hoping that Friday game will be Cal vs. Arizona, but U$C will be a handful on Thursday.
I think Javy got killed because he as throwing softballs
Banuelos Highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....&hd=1
Jerkface March 6th, 2011 at 6:09 pm
He didn’t get killed in those ballparks in 07.
_______________
Point in fact, Vazquez’s numbers were highly variable. In 2008 he was 4.67ERA, 3.74 (almost 1 higher than 2009), and 98ERA+. It wasn’t as if he was consistent year in and year out.
So, you didn’t notice if Alex was more mobile looking than end of last year? Esp. with the weight loss?
blake….The LA Lakers are very much like The NY Yankees when it come to the National Media just loving to write them off….Saw my buddy Donnie Hill this morning for breakfast at the golf course and he says every team in baseball understands that once again the Bronx Bombers are the club to beat
I watched the Yankees win the 1998 WS on YES today. So I was in a ST of sorts—for the post-season. I was practicing pumping my fist while simultaneously yelling “yes!”, throwing my arms above my head and yelling “woooo”!, and yelling the “f” word anytime the opponent started making some noise. My fist bumps are a little rusty, but once I get my knuckles in game shape, I’ll be fine.
I’d say my stuff is pretty good so far. True, it’s only March 6, but so far so good. Barring injury, I think I’m ready to cheer for the Yankees in 2011 WS.
So, you didn’t notice if Alex was more mobile looking than end of last year? Esp. with the weight loss?
–
He just didn’t get any chances at third. Hughes got pretty much all fly balls… To me, he LOOKS more mobile in other facets of the game, haven’t seen how it will translate. If he can get close to 2007 where he was pretty good at third I’ll be happy.
Nick in SF…….USC is playing great ball right now
blake March 6th, 2011 at 6:09 pm
M,
Yea that sounds about right for team scoring…..I was just wonderinif anyone had attempted to calculate like a conversion ration between the leagues…..say you do this in the AL then you should do this if traded to the NL based on averages etc….?
_____
Beyond the Boxscore maybe would have something???
Jerkface March 6th, 2011 at 6:30 pm
So, you didn’t notice if Alex was more mobile looking than end of last year? Esp. with the weight loss?
–
He just didn’t get any chances at third. Hughes got pretty much all fly balls… To me, he LOOKS more mobile in other facets of the game, haven’t seen how it will translate. If he can get close to 2007 where he was pretty good at third I’ll be happy.
______
I would too. Just wondered b/c even if he didn’t get balls you can kind of watch him following the play. He looked really bad in person last year, could barely move to his left although obviously the longer away from surgery the better. Hope to see a big difference after his going back to the usual off season routine.
LGY March 6th, 2011 at 6:04 pm
Vaz had a 4.81 K/BB ratio against non pitchers in 2009. That’s insane.
You are a Cy Young candidate in any league in the world when you are dominating batters like that.
///
He never could have even approached that ratio against AL lineups, even though the cough syrup was running high at the time that we were getting another “No. 2″. The will to believe is a big motivator for making outlandish predictions. You also can’t just “remove” the pitcher. That guy being there in the nine spot affects the way you approach a lineup, and not having a DH means you’re not getting warn down trying to work your way through. Lot of factors.
not getting worn down.
” Coke Goes 4 Innings as Tigers Beat Phillies 2-1 ”
Coke > Hughes ?
Prufrock
Javy faced 64 pitchers all season in 2009.
He faced 809 major league batters.
I presented you with his quality of opponent which Includes the pitchers he faced.
You seriously overstating your case.
Please stop speaking out of your butt.
Hughes didn’t have the benefit of a 20-30 mph wind blowing in from CF to keep the ball in the park like Laptop did against the Yankees.
But it is March.
I got to see Joba and Curtis on ESPN! yay.
I was more impressed that they were at DisneyWorld more than anything else.
Grandy is born to be in the public eye.
***
Pat M,
yea I agree…..they know when and how to turn it on. In the end I expect the same final as last year….
Prufrock saying that Javier Vazquez self combusted because he went to the AL.
///
Except Prufrock didn’t say that.
What Prufrock said was Vazquez is not a pitcher worth a prospect as highly rated as Vizcaino. I already acknowledged that losing mph off his fb affected his performance, but don’t let what I actually said inconvenience you.
the AL and the NL aren’t major league quality and minor league quality….they just aren’t. If you can pitch in one league you can pitch in the other…now you might have slightly better numbers in the NL but the change in league isn’t going to make you fall off a cliff….losing your stuff will.
E . R . California March 6th, 2011 at 6:38 pm
” Coke Goes 4 Innings as Tigers Beat Phillies 2-1 ”
Coke > Hughes ?
_____
Spring training, so I wouldn’t worry about Hughes.
However, Coke does have 4 pitches. At one point we too were considering starting him. He was a starter in the minors.
Please stop speaking out of your butt.
///
Please stop speaking out of your butt.
////
Please stop speaking out of your butt
///
Please stop speaking out of your butt.
But who wass to know that Vazquez would pitch as poorly as he did for the Yankees.
And why it is better to develope from within so you don’t have gamble a young prospect like Vizcaino for veteran pitching.
When they traded Vizcaino for Vazquez he had pitched in the GCL and Staten Island…..he was and still is a long way from the big leagues.
lol, why do all discussions where people don’t see eye to eye degenerate into name calling???
You can develop pitching from within and still make trades occasionally to fill current holes….
Evening.
Boy. Some of you folks sure like to argue.
Any of you ever figure out how Angels can dance on the head of a pin, or how many cheerleaders can actually fit in a VW bug ?
edit: how many. sorry.
Vizcaino is the exact type of pitcher you gamble with on trades. TINSTAAPP , there is no such thing as a pitching prospect. Too far away and too much can happen. They got a guy who was basically a lock to go 200+ innings and be a good 4th starter with the potential for so much more.
You can develop pitching from within and still make trades occasionally to fill current holes….
–
You have to, because if any of your prospects succeed they suddenly block everyone behind them, and if you wait too long the guys you don’t trade lose all their value… then you end up losing them as minor league FA or dumping them in big 3-5 player roster dumps.
blake March 6th, 2011 at 6:43 pm
the AL and the NL aren’t major league quality and minor league quality….they just aren’t. If you can pitch in one league you can pitch in the other…now you might have slightly better numbers in the NL but the change in league isn’t going to make you fall off a cliff….losing your stuff will.
///
Except I never said nor even implied that the change in leagues soley caused him to “fall off a cliff.” Yet the reverse isn’t true: that because he lost his stuff, he otherwise would have produced a similar type of dominating season in the AL, and that seems to be the inference you’re attempting to have others take away from your point. That’s a leap, IMO.
It’s a lot easier to let it go than to pine over what might have been.
I don’t see the benefit of decrying a trade that ended up not working out as planned.
The thought process that preceded the trade was a good one, generally speaking (none are perfect).
Ya gotta move on.
***
That being said, it’s a lot easier to pitch in a league where you know you’re facing the pitcher and can manage your work around that fact. It’s why Cliff Lee went to the Phillies. I believe even he said as much, though not in so many words.
For the short time that Javy was “on,” he was able to handle the AL. It was just too short a time.
My gene splicing experiments on Javy were only marginally effective.
I tried my best to remove his so-called “loser gene”.
Just to make my own points clear:
1.) Didn’t like the trade or think it was necessary (would have started Joba), but understand why we did it to “win now.”
2.) Javy as an eatings inning, acceptable premise, but not as an ace as per his 2008 numbers, which were one year and in no way expected in 2009.
3.) Liriano in terms of pure stuff and 2010 numbers is a better pitcher than Javy but repeat not a workhorse or innings eater. Please don’t reduce last one to I would trade for Liriano to eat innings.
Thanks for listening.
(Fin)
MTU -
I know for a fact that at least one (former) cheerleader can fit in a VW Tiguan!!!
blake March 6th, 2011 at 6:47 pm
.
You can develop pitching from within and still make trades occasionally to fill current holes….
///
Sure. Trade Warren and Phelps for a No. 4 guy if you must. Of course, instead, you could always just roll the dice on Joba Chamberlain
Hi Doreen – Hope you and yours are well.
Quick question – how’s your new car? Do you still like it? The reason I’m asking is I need to start looking myself, and the Audi Q5 and VW Tiguan are on my short list. Would like your driving impressions. Thanks in advance.
“innings eater”
Doreen-
I did not know that but now I do. So that’s why you wanted a VW ?
Good points about Javy being signed not as an ace, but as merely a pitcher who could give 200 fairly quality innings.
That he wasn’t able to do that was what was thoroughly disappointing.
It sure would have been interesting to see what would have happened had they gone with Joba. But, they didn’t. And they aren’t. And Joba seems okay with that.
Joe-
Hyundai Tucson Limited.
MTU -
LOL!
Jerkface,
That’s what is going to happen at some point with all these arms they have if some of them.aren’t moved ..there isn’t room for them all.
Prufrock,
No….you’re argument was based on the fact that Javy was an “NL pitcher”…..otherwise there should have been no hesitation in making that deal. Im ready to drop it though….its over and done with anyway.
MTU – “sounds” like you speak from experience.
Depends on who’s rotation they are a #4 in
MTU,
Nice pics….
Anyone know when Brackman is pitching? Leaks?
Joe-
I have a Santa Fe which I love.
It’s the Tucson’s bigger brother.
Mine is an ’05 but they have only gotten better and even more refined.
Ultra reliable.
Check ‘em out (And NO I do not work for Hyundai).
No….you’re argument was based on the fact that Javy was an “NL pitcher”…..otherwise there should have been no hesitation in making that deal. Im ready to drop it though….its over and done with anyway.
///
It really would make these discussions resolve in a more timely way if we stick to what we actually have said. I said his numbers in 2009 were not going to translate in the AL, I think that’s self-evident considering the pitcher and the league he was entering but at the end of the day, that is my opinion. That is different then ignorantly saying Just because, he’s “an NL pitcher.” Just because! Just because!
Prufrock, how did those cod cakes turn out?
Hughes can’t find his change up this spring. He had a plus one last spring he may never find it again? I know everyone loves the change right now , but I say with Hughes arm he should be able to throw a slider as his off speed pitch by now.
Blake-
Glad you enjoyed them. Colorful weren’t they.
Hike was surprisingly challenging but great fun.
Weather was …..
Anyone a NY Giants season ticket holder? If so, how are they dealing with ticket payments as per potential lockout? Are payments due as usual or is there a contingency plan?
J Alfred,
Fair enough. Hey what if the Yankees draft the next Manny Banuelos with their comp pick from Javy…
stjetersburg March 6th, 2011 at 7:05 pm
Hughes can’t find his change up this spring. He had a plus one last spring he may never find it again? I know everyone loves the change right now , but I say with Hughes arm he should be able to throw a slider as his off speed pitch by now.
_______
Can’t find it or hasn’t even tried using it?
Joe from Long Island -
I love my Tiguan.
It is a perfect size for me, and I’ve been pleasantly surprised by how it handles on the highway. I found myself doing over 70 (up to 80) and not feeling anything. It handles very, very well. Good acceleration. I am not 100% familiar with all the features yet. There’s a learning curve from my Acura.
But if you don’t mind a slightly bigger car at a higher cost, the Audi is a probably a little smoother ride overall (from what I remember from the test drive) than the Tiguan. We did not want the size and we decided against the extra cost of the Q5. Many of the features of the VW and the Audi were pretty similar.
Also, I don’t know about the Audi Q5, but you may have a problem getting a Tiguan timely if you don’t want what’s available on the lot. Although when we looked at the Q5, we didn’t actually get to drive one – we drove a Q4, which is what the Q5 is based on, because they literally had none available. We got to see one and sit in it, but by the time we were back from our test drive, it had been picked up by its new owner.
The Tiguan is a solid ride, and I am very happy with my choice.
Also, our VW dealership has a lot to learn about customer service.
They are very nice, but very s-l-o-w.
MTU,
Yes they were…very nice. Maybe one day I’ll be able to hike all day and drink.all night like you
Joe from LI -
After I committed to the Tiguan, I began to notice a lot of Tucson’s on the road (thanks to MTU!). They are nice looking from the outside. I never drove one, though.
yankeefeminista March 6th, 2011 at 7:05 pm
Prufrock, how did those cod cakes turn out?
///
Ve-ry tas-ty!
Cod
potatoes
onions sauteed in turmeric, sambar powder, chili pepper flakes, celery salt, coconut butter, cilantro, ginger, white pepper, diced jalapeno, toasted mustard seeds.
broil, serve with mayo, mustard, lemon over arugula or watercress or one of those bitter greens.
I would also cook the cod in some sake, tamari, scallion, ginger lemon and maybe some white miso (this brings out the sweet notes in the fish to complement the drier, spicer, astringent qualities of the onion mixture).
blake March 6th, 2011 at 7:08 pm
J Alfred,
Fair enough. Hey what if the Yankees draft the next Manny Banuelos with their comp pick from Javy…
///
In that case, all would obviously be forgiven
Doreen…You make a valid point, however I think we all had a sour taste still from watching October baseball during the 80′s & early 90′s when postseason clubs seemed to have ex-Yankee farm hands tossing baseballs while we sat shaking our heads….From McGregor to Drabek with guys like Deshies, The Martinez boys, Larry Anderson, Joe Crowley, Eric Show, Al Lieter and I’m certain I’ve missed a few others….I don’t include Jose Rijo because he and Eric Plunk did net us Rickey …….
YankF
Today Lee parked it in parking lot
When he threw it last time the pirates hammered it
He has a great fastball and cutter not mention a good curveball at times
But some guys just can’t throw a change up see Burnett
Yankfem – I forgot that olive oil (first pressed ‘course) is what you sautee the onions in primarily. The coconut butter is but a tsp or so to give it texture and also some nuttiness and sweet ness. THis is very important.
Blake-
It’s just a matter of time. Just keep training and stay in shape.
Keep that elbow working. Practice your chug-a-lug. Don’t ever let up and after years of dedicated practice you’ll be there.
Let’s drink to it !
Pat M -
No doubt. It would stink to see a guy the Yankees had in hand go on to great success. If the Yankees had no one else, I’d be more concerned, I guess.
stjetersburg March 6th, 2011 at 7:14 pm
YankF
Today Lee parked it in parking lot
When he threw it last time the pirates hammered it
He has a great fastball and cutter not mention a good curveball at times
But some guys just can’t throw a change up see Burnett
_____
Yeah, but as per Chad there were extenuating circumstances on the one change he threw & Phil himself says he needs to throw them more. As in more than one.
MTU,
Cheers
J. Alfred Prufrock March 6th, 2011 at 7:15 pm
Yankfem – I forgot that olive oil (first pressed ‘course) is what you sautee the onions in primarily. The coconut butter is but a tsp or so to give it texture and also some nuttiness and sweet ness. THis is very important.
_____
Killer recipe, Prufrock. I shall try it. Sounds like good pre-Trenton kinda food or food to smuggle in.
Doreen March 6th, 2011 at 7:18 pm
Pat M -
No doubt. It would stink to see a guy the Yankees had in hand go on to great success. If the Yankees had no one else, I’d be more concerned, I guess.
_____
It is a tribute to our farm system to be able to say that. However, I hope players we trade go on to great success. I hope Viz, Tabata, AJax, et al have smashing good careers. I guess too, when you watch players grow and develop over time, you really pull for them.