Mitre traded to Milwaukee
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 25, 2011 
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The Yankees pitching situation just got a lot clearer. Here’s the Associated Press story.
PHOENIX (AP) — The Milwaukee Brewers have traded outfielder Chris Dickerson to the New York Yankees for right-hander Sergio Mitre in an effort to bolster their banged-up pitching staff.
The 30-year-old Mitre is 13-29 with a 5.27 ERA in seven seasons with the Cubs, Marlins and the Yankees. Mitre is 1-1 with a 5.73 ERA in 11 innings this spring training. Milwaukee will have to cover several starts while 2009 AL Cy Young Award winner Zack Greinke recovers from a broken rib.
The 28-year-old Dickerson was acquired by the Brewers in August last season for Jim Edmonds and had limited action in 25 games last year. He’s hitting .278 with five RBIs in 17 games in spring training, but was expected to lose out for one of the last bench spots to Brandon Boggs and Jeremy Reed.
I would rather gotten Chris Narveson than Chris Dic erson
but sounds like a solid move…..they need outfield back up depth as well will how Andrew has looked this spring.
Like I said a few days ago before we added Millwood:
yankeefeminista March 23rd, 2011 at 1:48 pm
Let’s just hope that doesn’t mean that early we keep both Colon and Garcia, and send Nova down. That would be a mistake, but I fear it may happen.
_____
Now I am even more concerned. Pitch Nova; he has earned it.
Mike Axisa
Remember when the Yankees had zero CF depth? Now they have five guys in MLB/AAA that can not only play the position, but be above-avg there.
Good luck to Mitre, btw.
Doesn’t New York have enough OF depth already. Always adding all these outfielders and none of these no names pan out.
I actually like Mitre, and think he could have helped. So I would have tried to DL him.
Now with that said, getting rid of Mitre was the right move. He is very very avg. at best.
Best of luck to Mitre.
Betting on Colon’s and Garcia’s upside over Mitre’s seems like the right choice. Getting another outfield bat for depth isn’t a bad idea either. These guys can hold down the fort while we wait for a number 2 arm to become available on the trade market.
I liked Mitre as well but they never seemed to get him regular enough work for him to sharp. His best role is really a 5th starter on an NL team.
MTU – what’s that translation, of that dios, amigos stuff you wrote on the last thread? My espanol es poquito…..
Not having Ivan Nova in The Yanks rotation goes against everything that Cashman has been attempting to achieve over the past years and his absence in the rotation is not what’s best for the NY Yankees in 2011 and beyond…..
Repost (and good morning!)
Good luck to Mitre. I’m glad he wasn’t kicked to the curb. What will Greinke think of his new mate?
We don’t know the whole story re: Girardi.
Dies he look bad for holding out/reneging/whatever happened? Of course.
But Russo looks worse, though this is not surprising considering his reputation.
I don’t think this is really about compensation. But I think someone is trying really hard to make like it is. Russo looks like a whining spoiled brat.
A classy host would have said there was a huge mixup. And tried to rectify the situation. But it’s all about stirring up the pot with shock jocks, right?
Di ckerson gives the Yanks one thing they are short of, left handed hitting outfielders in the system.
Now I am even more concerned. Pitch Nova; he has earned it.
————————————————————————
Trading Sergio ends the mystery. And we’re all pretty sure Nova’s spot on the team was the first one secured anyway.
Mitre is replacing Greinke, who will only miss the first few starts. Perhaps Cash has an agreement to be able to get Mitre back, if we need him, after Greinke returns.
repost: (and this was before the announcement about Mitre being traded!)
“It’s best to say goodbye to him now and embrace Nova, Colon & Garcia…..They don’t possess the Hollywood looks that Mitre does but looks aren’t everything right ???”
Pat M – it has little to do with looks, all to do with reality. And my point was that there were posters who decided the guy was terrible last year, despite what the FACTS bore out. Thanks for that information Chad.
That said, I am not one prone to weeping and gnashing of teeth once a decision is made by the organization.
Who stays, stays, who goes goes and I wish them all well.
I guess that leads very nicely into my little song.
**************
Every Team Now I love You (Chorus)
Every team now I love you
Every team now I do
Though my heart’s with the Yankees
I always wish the best for you
(‘Cept the Sux. Never the Sux)
When you do well I’m happy
You can believe that it’s true
(Oh yes indeed. Oh yes indeed.)
Every team now I love you
Every team now I do-oo-oo.
**************
GOOD LUCK TO SERGIO MITRE!
Per ESPN:
According to a source involved in the deal, Kevin Millwood was signed to a pro-rated $1.5 million deal with incentives, but has to be on the Yankees 25-man big league roster by May 1 or the deal is void. Millwood, who was signed as insurance for Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon, both of whom apparently have made the team, and will go to extended spring training.
‘A classy host would have said there was a huge mixup. And tried to rectify the situation’.
================
A very good thought there.
Mitre has handcuffed us in the past. Iirc didn’t we release him before so we could make a move? If so, this just means that Cash got to pick Mitre’s destination, because he’s more of a commodity now.
Here’s to hoping that Millwood’s contract never vests.
whats with all of the Phil Hughes velocity tweets this morning.
I didnt even notice he was throwing 87 mph fastballs.
‘LOL’ and ♥ have been added to the Oxford-English Dictionary.
Joe-
“Go with God friend”
I’ve seen one too many Westerns in my time.
Spot on. I’m not sure if Cash is being overruled or he’s merely making decisions in accordance with a misguided win-now mandate, but either way, as you point out, it’s a counterproductive and often self-defeating way to run a team if winning as many WS as possible is truly your goal.
///
I couldn’t begin to speak to whose behind this,but IIRC Cashman’s ultimatum to George was autonomous rule or I’m gone.
Maybe the 2009 ring caused some inward change in sensibility for Cashman, although my take on 2009 was great, the joy of winning & now the yanks have some breathing room to REALLY wind into building something much more enduring.
Part of me hopes your speculation is true, another cautions that if so, we’re really up s*it’s creek.
Got to run. catch u all later.
Sounds likw Millwood will just stay in Tampa all of April and won’t take the ball outta Warren, Brackman or Noesi’s hands at Scranton.
Good.
West Coast Yankee Fan says:
March 25, 2011 at 11:58 am
LGY – I am saying that from everything I have heard it wasn’t handled properly. I look forward to hearing Joe’s perspective if he comments on it.
————
As if Joe didn’t have a multitude of more important things to do.
Good for Joe for saying no to this loudmouth.
Anybody see the NY Times today?
They are reporting that the Mets lost $50M last year.
Baseball reportedly had over $8B in revenues last year. Within this environment, the Mets operate in the NY market, the most lucrative in the country. And they lost $50M, with an even greater loss projected for this year.
They have a franchise in a lucrative industry; a new ballpark, with all the luxury stuff; and a regional sports network.
And the are losing money.
I always thought that Wilpon was too smart to not know what was happening with Madoff. Seeing this, maybe he really wasn’t that smart.
What a scandal, the whole Mets’ business. What a mess.
Now the question is, if Nova is the number 4 starter, who wins the number 5 slot. My bet is they ride Colon as long as he holds up.
“I actually like Mitre, and think he could have helped.”
Felt the same way Rich. But hopefully this is a good thing for Mitre, and the Yanks will now be able to figure things out with Colon, Garcia, and Nova.
I have as much interest in figuring out how it will play out as I did yesterday. That would be none. But again, that goes back to my belief that the Yankees know what they’re doing. I have enough on my plate without trying to invest unnecessary emotion into deciding what’s best for the Yankees. Were that the case, Mitre would still be here.
Does the -$50m include debt service?
MTU – thanks.
Pat M,
I agree. Who you got tonight?
OK, so Meat Tray is gone, which isn’t so terrible, but this trade is about as clear as mud for the benefit of the club. A nothing OF coming back for a back of the rotation pitcher seems a bit light.
Colon and Garcia will probably be making the club. Meh. At least with Nova I’d have more tolerance with struggles than I will for these two.
I hope Nova ends up in the Rotation. I hate that they bring in has beens and leave the good arms back in the minors. Listening to the parents of the guys in AAA they feel the same.
I was shocked reading some revenue/profit/valuation stuff on RAB last night. Yankees valued at $1.7B, Sox at $900M. Yet we turned profit of $25M off of revenues of $400M+. And the Sox lost $$. I want to say $50M on $200M+ of revenues? My thoughts were that everyone iscooking the books. (actually all the numbers were guesses, how do writers get away with THAT?!)
tyanksfan36. Nova should be a lock for the 4 slot in the rotation.
Good luck to Sergio. I really hate to see him go but I hope he kicks some NL butt!
I think he’s a really good guy, and he gave his best effort everytime he was on the mound for us. He never called it in. And he felt terrible when he had a bad day. He’s good people.
Oh the parents of the AAA guys think they should be in the Majors that’s weird??
Anyways Nova has proven he can handle it. Yankees will be fine till July and then add a stud arm for the the final push.
I still am not buying the Red Sux hype of winning over 95 games either.
As long as Nova is in the rotation, they can do whatever they think is best with the others. Just please don’t prioritize experience over current ability.
“And the Sox lost $$. I want to say $50M on $200M+ of revenues?”
Thougt the loss was only $1M.
Good bye Mitre.. good luck
Good bye Mitre 6.0 ERA Death Watch.. its the end of an era
Joe, the Wilpons are fools. They gave free run of the baseball operation for years to a guy who had no administrative/personnel skills whatsoever, and apparently only marginal baseball evaluation skills. The culture in that clubhouse of a me-first attitude is what contributed to the franchise’s collapse, on the heels of two humiliating September meltdowns and an entire season of medical incompetence.
I hope for all Mets fans’ sake that they sell the club. Most (all?) Mets fans I know feel te same way.
I don’t think NOT bringing Montero north is a sign of a lack of patience or faith, I think it’s a protective position. I think it demonstrates how much they want him to succeed.
They know the kid of going to struggle initially, but I believe they’d like him to taste some success and at least have that working in his favor before making the leap.
What’s going unsaid is the fact that the kid is 21 and there are signs that perhaps he’s not the most mature kid around. He got pulled from a game for not running our a grounder last year. I’ve heard rumblings of some arrogance from him last year during his hot streak, and lately a theory has advanced that his struggles defensively are exasperated when he struggles at the plate.
I’m not finding hm guilty. I’m saying the kid is 21 and perhaps he has some natural maturing to do.
Again, I think the Yankees fully expect a 21 year old catcher to have his share of adjustment to do at the ML level, but also again I think they want to build his confidence and have it at a high level before they throw him out there.
///
Stuckey, there may be some gravity to the hearsay on Montero’s level of maturity, but tolerance for micro-psychoanalysis should only go as far as need for his bat permits.
I’m of a mind that the Yankees need Montero’s offense to make a serious run this yr. That might be hyperbolic in others’ views, but I do staunchly believe this. As such, Montero can do his emotional “maturing” under the argus eye of Tony Pena & the nurturing of Joe G. & Co. He’s obviously not a “bad” kid, so I don’t worry about this, to me it’s a minor point.
He already enjoyed success at Scranton in the second half of last season, once he got over his injury. He’d be the backup, not the starting catcher, & IMO his bat needs no further taste of scrap heap AAA pitching to gorge on, but hungers for the real thing.
Thanks, Mell. I must have subconsciously lumped Matsuzaka’s posting fee in there
“Not having Ivan Nova in The Yanks rotation goes against everything that Cashman has been attempting to achieve over the past years …”
pat m-
now when would brian ever go against his long term philosophy to save his butt… i mean save the team’s butt in the short term?
golf , by the way is going great down here in florida. my swing speed is coming back as my golf flexibility is improving . having my old blades spined right now have you ever done that? it supposedly makes a big difference.
because my 9 iron through 2 iron were in the shop, i played yesterday with 4 wedges and a putter.
teeing off with a pitching wedge really gets some funny looks from people on a par 5 on the first tee .
they weren’t laughing
ty-I don’t think you have anything to worry about re: Nova. It would be a major upset if he doesn’t make the team.
I think this is a nice move by Cashman to give Mitre the oppurtunity to succeed elsewhere. There is no room at the bullpen-inn and no future for Mitre in this organization.
“I hate that they bring in has beens and leave the good arms back in the minors. Listening to the parents of the guys in AAA they feel the same.”
I’m not surprised the parents would feel that way, are you?
In terms of bringing in “has beens”, when you have a rotational setup such as the Yanks did going into spring training, it would have been irresponsible at the very least of the Yankees not to bring in veteran arms. Sometimes when you force a situation and bring kids up too soon, you end up with 2008 all over again. Not good for the kids, not good for the team.
I’m sure the last thing the Yankees want for Ivan Nova is to do anything that would hurt his career. They needed to bring in the veterans to see how all of the competition worked out. What if Nova didn’t get out of an inning? What if Nova got injured?
The organization knows how to run a baseball team. Although I am loathe to interject what “should” happen (I am hardly the expert…), the fact is that now that Mitre is gone, someone will be needed to back up for spot starts. So no matter the configuration, the back up person will likely end up in the rotation at one point or another.
Would I like to see Nova in the rotation? Sure. Am I going to take the bridge if it doesn’t happen or get myself into a twist. Not my style.
m – interesting point.
Because they’re privately held, we only have what gets reported, and don’t get info the writers’ have on the sources. However, I think (from past reading) that the Yanks’ revenue figures includes the revenue from the ballpark, only. Ticket sales, their cut of concessions, parking, etc. And, that the Yanks spend a lot of that on team and ballpark expenses.
What it doesn’t include, I believe, is the TV money from YES, and whatever other revenue streams that they have. This is where the Steinbrenners make most of their money, from the ancillary sources. It’s why they spend whatever they need to in order to win, and keep the team in the limelight. To keep the Yankees brand in the public eye.
I know even less about other the other teams, but wouldn’t be surprised if their books are “cooked” in order to present finances in the best light for tax and other purposes.
One could say the same thing about the Mets and their books and financial reprsentations. Maybe their financial situation really isn’t as bad as is being portrayed in the media. Except, that they keep needing bailouts from MLB, there are reports that Wilpon’s real estate holdings are in hock, etc. And, they have way too many empty seats at Citifield.
D-ckerson’s numbers vs RHP are solid ( for his career) .273ba, .363obp, .420slg, .783ops
Does anyone know if Dic kerson still has an option left? I can’t see us taking him in this trade unless we know we can send him to AAA.
“(actually all the numbers were guesses, how do writers get away with THAT?!)”
Freedom of speech and no fear of libel?
They took away Girardi’s Woobie! Good luck to Mitre.
“I’m of a mind that the Yankees need Montero’s offense to make a serious run this yr. That might be hyperbolic in others’ views, but I do staunchly believe this.”
If I understand you correctly, if Montero doesn’t immediately provide a high-level of offense in what as a back-up would amount to perhaps 30-35 games during he course of the year, the Yankees will not seriously contend for a postseason berth?
A major league baseball season is a marathon, perhaps because I do not quite fully understanding your position, I fail to see the imperative in April?
Are you suggesting the season could be lost or won in April over the maybe 4 games he might start in the season’s 1st month?
Unknown
Its not just that they want them in the Majors, of course they do. Its just they probably are irritated that the Yankees keep bringing in has beens who take away the opportunity for the guys in AAA to move up.
I think it will be Nova and Garcia as 4 and 5 and colon in the pen.
They took away Girardi’s Woobie! Good luck to Mitre.
–
Binkie!! And got a legit outfielder out of it. Nice job by Cashman.
Can we just call him D-son already?
Fortunately there are so many horizontal thinkers on this board that are able to discuss beyond, I trust every decision the Yankees make.
Yay lohud!
Freddy Garcia was a successful major league starting pitcher last year. A replication of his 2010 season as the Yankees 5th starter would be an absolute godsend.
I remain confused as to why some fans would prefer to get similar to worse production from a starter that just happens to be 6 or so years younger.
yankeefeminista March 25th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
As long as Nova is in the rotation, they can do whatever they think is best with the others. Just please don’t prioritize experience over current ability.
///
Hear, hear. How disheartening for Nova if they send him down after his spring. & in the realm of the “unquantifiable”, young players who can help a team win bring not only the benefit of their youth but a fresh spirit that the older veterans always seem to acknowledge. “A shot in the arm,” “excitement”, etc. There’s a continuity & energy current that is a live, vibrant thing that mercenary hires don’t provide. Chemistry, that’s what it is.
tyanks, please at least tell me that you understand in theory why the Yankees have brought in “has beens” as you call them. And you say keep bringing in has beens. Usually when the Yankees trade for an arm it’s to shore up for a pennant race. You probably have already figured out that you don’t necessarily give the kids their start during a pennant race or the postseason, yes? You bring up whatever backup you need but unless you are really stocked or desperate, kids don’t trump veterans.
The Yankee offense doesn’t need any more than a replacement level 7 8 or 9 hitter and will still outscore 3/4 of the league. The top-6 are soooo stacked that its largely irrelevant who bats at the bottom of the order.
Thinking you need some rookie backup catcher’s bat in the best lineup in baseball doesn’t make any sense.
Awwww, LGY with his disgruntled self again.
BryanHoch Chris Dic kerson: “Everybody wants to be a Yankee” ~ http://bit.ly/fnAge4
And I already said that I was sure that juvenile mind on this board would have a field day with the horizontal v. vertical thinking thing I brought up.
Congratulations LGY! You own the board of that one!!!
Mitre leaving makes me more confident that it will be Nova as #4, w/ Garcia/Colon as #5/ long relief, which ever order it works out.
As far as the catching situation, the spot available currently is BUC as I understand it. Is it better for Montero’s development to get less playing time, but be in the majors, or get more playing time in the minors? I guess I can see pluses and minuses for both situations.
Yes, Chris has one more option left.
Trisha
I know why they bring them in. The “has beens” is the term the parents use. I feel that anyone that can help the team win should be there. Right now I think Nova is the only one that would fit in the Major leagues right now of any of the pitchers they have.
If I understand you correctly, if Montero doesn’t immediately provide a high-level of offense in what as a back-up would amount to perhaps 30-35 games during he course of the year, the Yankees will not seriously contend for a postseason berth?
A major league baseball season is a marathon, perhaps because I do not quite fully understanding your position, I fail to see the imperative in April?
Are you suggesting the season could be lost or won in April over the maybe 4 games he might start in the season’s 1st month?
///
He’s not going to “immediately provide high-level offense”, that’s why he needs to be up sooner than later. If he went down for the month of April, only to be summoned in May, that would be fine.
But here’s the problem. If he’s sent down & they manage to hang in or even thrive without him, they are not calling for him anytime soon. They’re extremely conservative. He needs to start his learning curve NOW, not in July. I would have him with his arc already started EARLY so he can be a weapon after the ASB.
s it better for Montero’s development to get less playing time, but be in the majors
–
Depends on how much less playing time he gets. I am of the feeling that Montero will hit and warrant more play time if he is in the majors, and he really should start hitting against major leaguers. I don’t think the Yankees would think his bat isn’t ready. He hasn’t had a great spring but neither have a few guys. He had 1 OPS in last 2 springs and great seasons, they should know he will hit. If they send him down to AAA its likely to continue working on defense. Though I didnt see anything this spring that made me think he can’t catch *right now* , we aren’t privvy to all the practices and evaluations.
Signing D-Son was all a ploy by Brian Cashman to mess with the LoHud filters
Prufrock – He needs to be able to catch a major league staff before any offensive adjustments need to be made.
“so he can be a weapon after the ASB.”
Why? To what end? Who is coming out of the lineup?
Why? To what end? Who is coming out of the lineup?
–
Martin / Posada
“Yes, Chris has one more option left.”
Was a little surprised to read the Brewers were prepared to use it. Apparently his status vis a vis the Brewers major league roster was similar to Mitre’s and the Yankee’s. I’d have thought he’d be their 4th OF, but apparently he wasn’t going to make the team.
“I still am not buying the Red Sux hype of winning over 95 games either.”
they are baseball’s best example of dropkick murhy’s law that what can go wrong will go wrong in baseball.
do the yankees have a buckner in their history?
do they have one of their their best players sweat on national tv like a pig that just escaped from the slaughterhouse like youkillis does ?
or a second baseman that whines when he can’t find his high chair for the after game spreads?
( ok, i made that last one up).
the red sox have all kinds of problems and one of them is going to be the big expectations that making flashy signings has created.
yeah, I don’t think they are worried about his bat. IIRC, Girardi already said that they know he can hit, they wanted him to work on defense.
JF – Martin / Posada
The difference in production would be so marginal I can’t understand why it would be necessary… if he’s ready to catch every day that’s one thing, he’s not going to make adjustments and outproduce established major league hitters getting 12 AB’s a week.
Montero would , more likely, be called up to catch fulltime if Martin got hurt.
Let him get some hacks in on a regular basis in AAA and regain his stroke then sit on the bench here and stagnate.
The difference in production would be so marginal I can’t understand why it would be necessary
–
Because Montero is going to be your big stick for the next 6 years, and the sooner you get him adjusted to the big leagues the sooner he begins to fulfill promise.
He also doesn’t have to catch every day. He could catch half the days and stick at DH for a game or two, easily getting 400+ PAs this year. And depending on how posada and martin do he can fight for more play time.
Why would anyone think that Nova isn’t going to get his shot. Nova is pretty clearly the 4th guy, Colon or Garcia the 5th and the long reliever. When Milwood arrives the odd man out will probably released. Nova’s on the team, the BUC spot is more interesting to me. I’m not against Molina backing Martin up, having Montero in AAA, and Romine in AA until Cervelli comes back.
some are just enamoured with bringing up the rookie, stash the impatience and let the kid breath
tyanks – absolutely agree with you.
But as people have pointed out in the past, there are things that the organization knows that we have no knowledge of, and they make decisions based on all of the information they have.
I agree it will be an interesting watch. And this is why I am so happy to be a mere fan behind a keyboard and nothing more. You have a situation where Garcia has reportedly said he will not play for the Yankees unless he is a starter. You also have a situation where many people here are saying they think that Colon has pitched better than Garcia. And then you also have a situation where Colon hasn’t pitched in the majors in a while and the Yankees might have fears about his potentially wearing down quickly.
So what do the Yankees do? Keep Garcia in the rotation even if they feel Colon would fare better even in the short run (not saying they feel that way). Keep both Garcia and Colon in the rotation and Nova for spot starts because that way they don’t lose Garcia? Start Nova and Garcia and put Colon in the pen, even if they think he would have been better in the rotation?
No, they go and get Millwood! (j/k, that’s probably a sound decision in terms of potential back up.)
Everyone has an opinion, not everyone’s opinion is the same, and there’s probably something to be said for each and every opinion, in terms of negatives and positives.
But the Yankees get to make the decision and they make it on the best information they have, again sometimes information to which fans are not privvy. The one thing we know for sure is that they want to win as much as the fans, if not moreso.
So my philosophy, for myself, is let it all sift out and trust it happened the best way it could. There is absolutely no percentage in doing it any other way since it’s wasted emotion, especially if it didn’t work out the way I “thought” it should.
i’m sure they know but the only question left is colon or garcia as the 5th
no doubt it will be colon
Awwww, LGY with his disgruntled self again.
****
Just taking an opportunity to pat myself and the other horizontal thinkers on this board on the back
Prufrock – He needs to be able to catch a major league staff before any offensive adjustments need to be made.
“so he can be a weapon after the ASB.”
Why? To what end? Who is coming out of the lineup?
///
Before Montero allegedly fell from grace, Girardi said he would find him ABs. Backup catcher with some turns at DH (Posada has had some turns at 1B). They can gradually become more democratic behind the plate & give him more starts there.
“But here’s the problem. If he’s sent down & they manage to hang in or even thrive without him, they are not calling for him anytime soon. ”
You kind of outsmarted yourself there J. If the Yankees thrive without him, there is no reason to think they wouldn’t continue to thrive, which is then somewhat counter to your position that the Yankees will have to have his offense to seriously contend.
You can’t have it both ways, arguing he NEEDS to be on the Yankees for them to succeed, but at the same time concern yourself over the Yankees succeeding without him.
You have a situation where Garcia has reportedly said he will not play for the Yankees unless he is a starter.
=============
What? He never said that.
“the red sox have all kinds of problems and one of them is going to be the big expectations that making flashy signings has created.”
The few times that Randy and I agree on anything, it is usually on this stuff! And I will always give the nod to Randy (and in turn myself ha ha) because he is close enough to the action to have a pretty good handle on it.
Martin has a sub 7 OPS the past 2 years.
He may be established but recent history suggests that is not saying much.
jerkface – i would wait for posada to flop as a DH before I worry about getting montero’s bat ready for this year. bring healthy and not catching, posada should be displaying power and longevity he hasn’t had in years.
I think it is more important to the organization going forward that montero be able to catch consistently than his bat being “adjusted”. His bat is so advanced for his age and experience he should be focused on developing his weakest link, not his strongest. If the Yankees need his bat that bad at any point this season, something went terribly wrong.
“What? He never said that.”
I’m sure I read that. He said that he still felt he had starter material and would not play otherwise. Hey maybe he said he wouldn’t go to the minors? Or maybe it was a condition of his signing?
Okay let me google it and get you the exact information. But it’s something in all of what I enumerated.
rushing a kid to the majors to be a backup when he has the potential to step in and start (a la Posey) is not necessary.
Martin has a one year deal. Figure it out.
“some are just enamoured with bringing up the rookie, stash the impatience and let the kid breath”
Based on historical evidence I believe some just want to be certain they have ammunition in the chamber to complain about Girardi’s line-ups
The Martin over Montero dynamic will just be a gift that keeps on giving for the whiners.
stuckey99 March 25th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
“But here’s the problem. If he’s sent down & they manage to hang in or even thrive without him, they are not calling for him anytime soon. ”
You kind of outsmarted yourself there J. If the Yankees thrive without him, there is no reason to think they wouldn’t continue to thrive, which is then somewhat counter to your position that the Yankees will have to have his offense to seriously contend.
You can’t have it both ways, arguing he NEEDS to be on the Yankees for them to succeed, but at the same time concern yourself over the Yankees succeeding without him.
////
No, because hanging in and thriving early does not mean they will continue to do so. If Montero did not exist, then you would evaluate their chances without him. He does, and he can provide transcendent offense, which I feel certain they will need to trump the competition this yr, especially with everyone a yr older.
Freddy Sez: I will go to the pen.
“Because Montero is going to be your big stick for the next 6 years, and the sooner you get him adjusted to the big leagues the sooner he begins to fulfill promise.”
i don’t have a problem with montero being the back up while cervelli is hurt, but development doesn’t always happen faster just because someone who is a natural is thrown into the deep end of the pool.
for example, if there is something mechanical that has to be learned, it can be harder doing it under pressure than not under pressure. bad habits can be learned as easily as good habits if you are repeating them.
that said, i think montero is going to do fine as a back up for the back up.
“i’m sure they know but the only question left is colon or garcia as the 5th
no doubt it will be colon”
Nah, Garcia for sure.
What? He never said that.
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I think He did say that, until he wasn’t doing well and then said he was ok to pitch in the bullpen. He said he was an experienced starter so he had no need to pitch in the bullpen or AAA.
Posada can’t DH everyday and I would say it is likely he goes on the DL at some point this season:
Kudos to Cashman for waiting out Millwood. Did a nice job reading the market and getting the minor league deal he was holding out for. Very pleased by the move. Not saying Millwood will be impactful, but he is a major league arm that has proven to be largely durable and if needed, he can fill a hole in the back of the rotation at a marginal cost.
You have a situation where Garcia has reportedly said he will not play for the Yankees unless he is a starter.
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Does Garcia have that contractual right? I thought that as long as the Yanks put him on the Major League squad by a certain date they have a right to keep him. Garcia might resent being in the pen, but I would think his role would be up to the manager.
i don’t have a problem with montero being the back up while cervelli is hurt, but development doesn’t always happen faster just because someone who is a natural is thrown into the deep end of the pool.
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Offensively, he has little to gain not facing the toughest competition. He already crushed AAA last year.
people love to complain stuckey its what keeps this board alive
LGY – he’s been on and off hurt for the last 2 year as well… it’s all about setting your expectations at realistic levels. are we assuming limited production or a healthy martin? you can’t just assume he’ll be hurt again, so he should move back to the ’06/’07 version of healthy martin… he is not doomed to repeat injury laden seasons.
Would it take much for montero to outproduce Martins bat? No… not at all.
Would it take much for montero to “give it all back” through defensive deficiency? I would say almost definitively yes.
Hey maybe he said he wouldn’t go to the minors?
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That’s more like it.
Montero concentrated on defense this ST. You can see he is rusty at the plate. He needs to play everyday. Case closed. Send him down.
“I don’t have a problem with montero being the back up while cervelli is hurt, but development doesn’t always happen faster just because someone who is a natural is thrown into the deep end of the pool.”
Definitely agree with that. I took a lot of heat for suggesting that the Yankees would use Cervelli as their backup to Martin (before Cervelli got hurt), and then for suggesting that Montero, if brought up, would go back to the minors as soon as Cervelli rehabbed.
I’m all for players getting all the experience they need in the minors and then coming up. I guess getting burned by what happened in 2008 was lesson enough for me in terms of rushing kids up.
And I see no percentage in throwing them into the deep end, especially when you are talking a catcher on a team with a rotation that is at least at this point in time in flux. What are you trying to accomplish? Have your team win the world series or having a new kid shown off? When you can do both, whoopee. But if a kid still has some learning to do, let him continue to get experience.
My feeling anway.
I tend to see the Millwood signing as a knock on Phelps/Warren/Mitchell/Noesi more than as insurance on Garcia/Colon, both of whom I originally thought were insurance to begin with. More as glass half empty than half full.
LGY – I see no reason to make that assumption about Posada unless you are completely ignoring the toll catching takes on an athelete’s body.
Just like players that have “miraculous years” the year after they get out of a turf home-field, Posada should be reinvigorated with energy and ability we have not seen in 5+ years.
I just got home.
Mitre trade????
Wow. Shoulda seen it coming, but I didn’t. Now t scroll up to see what the entire deal was.
I’m a little sad. I know that’s not a popular point of view, but I am.
some just dont read the tealeaves.
mitre was easy.
montero is the next move.
colon is the 5th.
done.
oh well…pena over nunez?
“I think He did say that, until he wasn’t doing well and then said he was ok to pitch in the bullpen. He said he was an experienced starter so he had no need to pitch in the bullpen or AAA.”
Thanks jerkface. I was pretty sure I had read that at one point. Good that he has given more latitude to the Yanks because I do feel he can definitely help the team, no matter where he ends up.
ID
What injuries has Martin had?
He was healthy, then he was injured and stop playing.
“A nothing OF coming back for a back of the rotation pitcher seems a bit light.”
————
Is he better than Garcia or Colon, who nobody really wanted until the Yanks gave them minor league deals?
If not, then why would there be a huge market for Mitre?
I like the guy more than most, but this was a fine return for him. Mitre was the odd man out and the Yanks had to take what they could get – or get nothing. Dic erson could be useful to the Yankees this season. As far as I’m concerned, that makes this a good trade.
I tend to see the Millwood signing as a knock on Phelps/Warren/Mitchell/Noesi
====================================
Cash loves the lightning in a bottle theory, just covering all the bases.
Posada is close to 40 and has had bin catching related injuries in the past few years.
I think he will be a very good DH, but at the same time think it is irresponsible to assume he will be healthy all year.
If in the rare event one of our starters gets bombed early wouldn’t it better to bring in Garcia than Mitre?
The Yankees got a guy who can play center and has a bit of a bat for the position and good tools. That is crazy, they got that for Sergio Mitre a guy most teams would expect to pick up off the waiver line.
Garcia is the 5th, Colon in the pen.
Adios Mitre-
Lo siento!
I think he will be a very good DH, but at the same time think it is irresponsible to assume he will be healthy all year.
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If Jorge got hurt one week into the season up comes Montero.
Garcia is the 5th, Colon in the pen.
======================
Uh uh.
jerkface – that’s what I’m thinking. Colon has the better fastball, apparently, and I’m thinking that might make him the better bullpen candidate.
most are thinking Nova 4, Garcia 5 and Colon to the pen.
Dont mind Millwood i guess, because it cant hurt to have depth, no matter what.
Even Boston is looking for more starters, and they have Aceves and Wake.
they are riding Colon, to not would be foolish.
If Jorge got hurt one week into the season up comes Montero.
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Thats a bit silly.
Colon has the better fastball, apparently, and I’m thinking that might make him the better bullpen candidate.
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He’s not a middle reliever.
I predict Colon and Nova are 4th and 5th starters.
Garcia is the long man!
Garcia 5th starter, Colon pen, Montero BUC, Pena BUI
they are riding Colon, to not would be foolish.
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Riding him in the pen, yes. As CB has pointed out, he has shown a good fastball and thats it. And he hasn’t pitch a full season in forever. Let him get acclimated in the pen while a guy who provided 150 solid innings last year starts it off.
I strongly believe Colon to start with Garcia in the pen, and he and Millwood if Colon can’t go.
I do agree it is not an endorsement that a prospect will be ready any time soon.
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Thats a bit silly.
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Who then? Chavez?
Ill agree on Montero too. spent his time focused on catching, so he needs to get the bat back. Full time in AAA for a while. Start that other back up we got, then Cervelli will be back shortly. When Montero gets here i want it to be permanent and dominating.
He’s not a middle reliever.
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Neither is Garcia. Colon has 1 pitch right now, he can break that out for 3 innings coming from the bullpen while refining his breakin stuff in side sessions. Then he will be ready to step in when needed. Better than GArcia chucking 85 mph out of the pen.
I understand the notion that Montero has nothing to prove at AAA anymore, but I’d almost consider what I expect to be his time there to be like an extended rehab assignment.
Sometimes repetition and timing is important too. Martin IS the starter. There are off days in April.
Montero just wouldn’t get that many reps, regardless of the level. Let him play baseball every day for a little while.
Who then? Chavez?
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The silly part is you advocating sending him down because he isn’t ready only to suggest he be called up a week into the season if posada goes down. Stick to a plan.
I would be all for Montero coming up as soon as possible. If they wait 20 days they get an extra year of team control.
Riding him in the pen, yes. As CB has pointed out, he has shown a good fastball and thats it. And he hasn’t pitch a full season in forever
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That’s silly.
Ride the horse as far as he goes.
The silly part is you advocating sending him down because he isn’t ready only to suggest he be called up a week into the season if posada goes down.
======================
ok make it a MONTH then, you and your semantics.
LGY March 25th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
Posada can’t DH everyday and I would say it is likely he goes on the DL at some point this season:
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Disagree. Posada can DH every day. The one thing that would worry me is he has pulled a hamstring running in rainy weather, which is what our Aprils around here have been. But, maybe those were so prevalent because of the strain of catching & would be less likely.
If I were Cashman, given the age of the lineup, my goal for Aug./Sept be to have BOTH Montero & Posada in the lineup every day. yea I would love to see Montero do the bulk of catching down the stretch. Loaded lineups also give pitchers much greater margin for coughing.
If they wait 20 days they get an extra year of team control.
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betcha they thought of that.
Wave Your Hat March 25th, 2011 at 1:18 pm
I tend to see the Millwood signing as a knock on Phelps/Warren/Mitchell/Noesi more than as insurance on Garcia/Colon, both of whom I originally thought were insurance to begin with. More as glass half empty than half full.
———————————————————————————————————————
Only Phelps has more than 3 AAA starts and Warren has none. Phelps has 10. Noesi, Mitchell and Warren barely qualify as AA pitchers.
Ride the horse as far as he goes.
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Many jockies have ridden the spring training horse and gotten burned. Garcia is the 5th starter.
Only Phelps has more than 3 AAA starts and Warren has none. Phelps has 10. Noesi, Mitchell and Warren barely qualify as AA pitchers.
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Lots of pitchers don’t start much in AAA.
we shall see.
Sometimes repetition and timing is important too. Martin IS the starter. There are off days in April.
Montero just wouldn’t get that many reps, regardless of the level. Let him play baseball every day for a little while.
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This would be optimal were they invested on bringing him back up soon. They don’t operate like this, though.
Yanks know this kid. They drafted him in 2000 but he chose to attend University of Nevada instead
Good luck to Sergio! I wish him well in Milwaukee. I really hope he catches on in the NL, more than just out of the bullpen. I think he can be a 5th starter over there. I do.
who cares what mitre does.
I’ve got to run, but somebody posted an article here not long ago about the Yanks’ ultra-conservatism in bringing Posada along. Very insightful it was, & cautionary in the case of Montero. If someone has that link, I would love to revisit. Thanks.
I think there is a very high likelihood that Montero is a regular in the lineup by mid-season. I just find it highly unlikely that Martin returns to being a .850 OPS hitter AND Posada flourishes in the DH spot. I think the chances of both happening are very low and Montero is your best option to fill either spot should one of those guys faulter.
LGY – you know… i’m having a bit of trouble getting details on his injury history. usually I don’t post anything unless i’ve already checked it out first so I do apologize for that.
All you keep reading about Martin is “history of injuries” but the only major ones i can find is a brief wrist injury, a pulled groin and the hip problem (which the groin probably caused). I certainly wouldn’t term an injury leading to another injury as a “problem” with injuries.
Maybe overuse had more to do with his downturn in production than anything else? I’m certainly not as sure as I was 10 minutes ago.
I still believe we’ll be seeing closer production to his first 2 seasons than his last 2 but I’m having a hard time understanding where he gets this injury-prone rep from. I also don’t believe that Montero’s offensive “improvement” would outweigh the loss in defensive ability and game-calling.
As i said above, if the Yankees needed more offense for some reason i can understand rushing Montero up to the bigs to see what he’s got. The Yankees don’t need offense though, they have plenty. Better off making sure he’s 100% ready to catch (or being 100% sure he will never catch in the majors) before distracting him with adjusting to major league pitching.
“Offensively, he has little to gain not facing the toughest competition. He already crushed AAA last year.”
it can be a tough decision of going with what you have and putting up big numbers and making changes that will make you better in the long run.
if someone in any sport has to add something or make a change it’s harder to do that when results count more.
montero may be so gifted as a hitter he can pull it off developing at the mlb level.
NEW stuff+++>>>>>