Gardner leading off in spring finale
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 29, 2011 
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upstate kate March 29th, 2011 at 10:59 am
Erica
I was a bit ahead in my work and decided to get an early start on the quarterly taxes. I spent a few hours trying to figure out why the deposits weren’t matching with the withholding only to realize I was using the 2010 form and the tax rates have changed…so much for my early start.
************
I hate taxes
http://members.cox.net/lsdorga.....0CHART.pdf
YankeesPR Must be close to opening day; logos are being painted on the field! http://yfrog.com/h3f4farj
Didn’t know if this had been posted:
# RT @CC_Sabathia: Don’t forget to catch me on Letterman (@Late_Show) this Wednesday to kick off the 2011 season! about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck
Romulo Sanchez’s rights are being sold to a Japanese team? I wonder how that sits with him, considering the distance and current problems in Japan.
“There is a reason these people work in the media. If they knew anything about baseball or talent evaluation they would be working as coaches/scouts. Not writing articles for deadlines.”
This is of course a ridiculous overstatement that essentially disqualifies anyone who doesn’t work in professional sports from being able to observe and comment intelligently on professional sports, which includes everyone here.
Just like there are bad players, bad coaches, bad trainers, bad GMs, and bad owners, there are of course bad writers and in the Internet world a lot of fans for some reason seem overly preoccupied with them.
But there is just nothing credible about impugning ALL of them.
Ironically, you’re actually committing exactly the same offense you’re accusing others of, commenting out of ignorance of the subject matter.
eboland11 Soriano, Colon, Prior among pitchers scheduled after Garcia today
Mell, I agree. Stuckey, So you think that had the Yankees came in to camp saying that Montero was going to AAA and maintained that throughout that Sherman would still have written that he had failed in the Post this morning? I don’t. When Girardi is on TV talking up the merits of being a backup in the big leagues …..and you have Cashman saying its a “cage fight ” between Montero and Romine for the job….then it opens the door for these “failure ” articles when they end up taking neither. That’s all Im saying…..it’s not a huge deal but I do think the Yankees have a habit of feeding the media machine more than they should.
“There was nothing the Yankees could say or do that would’ve stopped the media from putting 2+2 together and concluding Montero should/would have been in the mix for making the ML roster this spring. That’s a product of him playing a whole year at AAA and flourishing, not anything the Yankees said or didn’t say.”
———————-
Sherman’s entire article was predicated on how much Girardi and Yankee officials talked about how beneficial it would for Montero to be with the big club.
Girardi basically made it sound like a guarantee Montero would make the club after Cervelli went down.
The flip flopping is what is driving this increased attention and leads to articles like Shermans.
stuckey99 March 29th, 2011 at 11:17 am
I agree.
Behold,
Yea Z is a pro no question…..just hopefully not next year
Yankeefem,
Set my DVR for Letterman tomorrow. Thanks for the reminder.
“So you think that had the Yankees came in to camp saying that Montero was going to AAA and maintained that throughout that Sherman would still have written that he had failed in the Post this morning? I don’t. ”
No, I think he probably would have wrote it 7 weeks ago, asking why a player who is considered a top prospect and has a full year under his belt in AAA is not even being considered for a ML job, particularly given it is and area of need for the Yankees.
I think the perception of Montero being someone inline to be a ML’er is more to do with Montero and less than Girardi and Cashman’s comments about him.
Sherman does get bonus points for using ‘balderdash’
No, I think he probably would have wrote it 7 weeks ago
-
So why didn’t he then? That was the plan 7 weeks ago when they signed Martin. It changed when Cervelli got hurt….that’s when you heard the rumblings that he coukd make the team. LGY is correct……it’s the perceived flip flopping over 2 weeks of ST games that creates the opportunity for this stuff to be written.
“No, I think he probably would have wrote it 7 weeks ago, asking why a player who is considered a top prospect and has a full year under his belt in AAA is not even being considered for a ML job, particularly given it is and area of need for the Yankees.”
——————-
And that is easily answered with the Yankees maintaining the consistent position that we want our top prospect playing everyday, but are not comfortable yet handing a 21 year old the starting catcher job because it is such an important position… blah blah blah
Not even really comparable to “Montero failed” articles.
I really hope Gardner will be the man and that the Grandyman can!
Good point blake.
Sherman had that exact opportunity 7 weeks ago, but didn’t take it (to my knowledge).
It was “flip flopping” because the kid didn’t play well the last three weeks of ST. It happens with young players.
Ultimately, they decided it was in his long term nest interests to play everyday and start the year in AAA.
It is ok to change your mind. Especially when you are evaluating players.
Doesn’t make the kid a “failure” or a “bust”. Just means he’s not quite ready for primetime yet.
I don’t believe there is a 21 year old starting or backup C starting the season in the majors.
It’s not an easy position to break into at such a young age.
As far as his bat is concerned, I would rather have him with the big club when he is swingin’ it well.
He did not swing the bat well in ST.
More time in AAA will only make him better. Especially since, he has a great attitude about it.
I think crawdaddy posted that wallace is a hack of a writer.
Couldn’t agree more. Has nothing to do with the fact that he hates the Yankees which is obvious. He just is a really smug writer, what a espn sellout.
Replace him with Rob Parker please.
Crawdaddy March 29th, 2011 at 9:13 am
Of course, Mantle had a bad regular season before being sent down for some further development
****************************************************
Mantle was not sent down after 1 regular bad season, he was called up to the Yankees on April 7, 1951, and after going into a slump, he was sent to the KC Blues farm team. After 40 games in KC he was called back up to the Yankees, and stayed with them his entire career. Mickey started as a RF in 1951, and replaced Joe D in CF in 1952.
You made it sound as if Mick played a full regular season, and then was sent down, which is not the case.
Later folks.
Hey Trisha,
Please put me down at 101.
Thanks
“It was “flip flopping” because the kid didn’t play well the last three weeks of ST. It happens with young players.”
——————–
The Yankees should know better than to get caught up in 1 or 2 weeks worth of play in ST.
The point is they should have never opened their mouths to begin with on this issue, especially when they are dealing with their top prospect.
No one is taking issue with them changing their mind. It is how they handled the situation in the media.
The whole Montero discussion is so March 28th.
Thanks Trisha …good luck to all. I really don’t care who wins ..just as long as it is the number the Yankees need to win the division on the road to their 28th Championship….
Go Yankees 2011 !!!
Montero was NEVER going to get the starting catcher’s job.
He was only in line for BUC because Cervelli got hurt.
Girardi’s mistake was talking (thinking) out loud about how it “could” work if Montero was called up, how they “could” try and make it work. It opened up the idea that it was plausible that the Yankees might make that move. But he never said they were going to do that; he simply said it had been done – he said “look at what the Giants did with Posey.” It would be silly to think the Yankees wouldn’t think along those lines at all.
But if Cervelli didn’t get hurt, Montero was never going to be in that conversation, nor was Romine.
Whatever……
But to take the opinion that Montero is a failure because the Yankees decided he’d be best served playing everyday is really just writing in order to get a reaction, which he is, isn’t he? And that is part of his job, isn’t it? Apparently, it is anyway.
“Montero was NEVER going to get the starting catcher’s job.”
What if Martin got hurt?
I like Rob Parker. He’s very pro-Yankee.
Montero, Nova, Slade and one of the Killers Bees for King Felix? Thoughts.
CC, Felix, Phil, AJ and one of the remaining Bees is a pretty good rotation. Assuming CC stays maybe AJ’s last year could be in the pen and the other Killer Bee is the rotation. So the rotation would be CC, Felix, Phil, A Bee and A Bee. Perhaps the pen has Joba, AJ and Soriano, Sorry but the Great One will be retired by then.
CC better be ready to match zeros with Verlander on thurs. That dude can really shut down a lineup.
I know CC will be up to the challenge and I’m looking for a 3 run shot from Tex.
4 – 2 Yankees win!
“So why didn’t he then? That was the plan 7 weeks ago when they signed Martin. It changed when Cervelli got hurt….”
Blake, I don’t think that was the plan. I think the plan WAS for him to make the team. And the team was upfront about it. Now in RESPONSE to what they’ve seen the last 7 weeks, the plan has changed and the Yankees NOW feel he would better benefit from going to AAA and playing every day right now.
Yes, their comments have “flip-flopped” because their strategy has indeed flip-flopped .. genuinely. They changed their minds.
What I understand you to be suggesting is the Yankees employ some sort of media strategy to account for BOTH contingencies – that he 1.) make the team as planned; or 2.) didn’t make the team as planned.
I was suggesting if the Yankees purposely spoke to the media to prepare them for #2, with the idea if #1 came to pass it would be more of a pleasant news cycle when announced, then articles could have been written about how the Yankees had no faith in Montero at the START of spring training.
Mostly, I think this is being overly thought.
“And that is easily answered with the Yankees maintaining the consistent position that we want our top prospect playing everyday, but are not comfortable yet handing a 21 year old the starting catcher job because it is such an important position…”
And again LGY, I think it’s perfectly obvious that was not the expectation 7 weeks ago.
I’ve been perfectly clear about this. I think Ivan Nova, Freddy Garcia and Jesus Montero all came into ST with a job to loose, and Montero lost it.
stuckey,
You thought Montero had the job to lose, not Cervelli?
I didn’t know that.
Some level-headed words about Montero:
Jesus Montero was included among the Yankees cuts yesterday, with the 21-year-old stud catching prospect being optioned to Triple-A.
For some reason there are mainstream media members who should know better acting as if his not making the team out of spring training is an indictment of Montero’s long-term upside or a change of plans by the Yankees, but it seems highly unlikely that general manager Brian Cashman and company ever planned on putting an elite 21-year-old prospect in a backup role that may lead to just a couple starts per week.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports......-triple-a/
For one thing he needs to be playing every day wherever he is and for another thing Montero’s defense behind the plate gets mixed reviews at best. Giving him an extended look in spring training before sending him to Triple-A is exactly what everyone should have expected to happen.
That is a good point Rich. The Yankees might not have been sure what they were getting w/ Martin, until they had the chance to see him in ST.
“As far as his bat is concerned, I would rather have him with the big club when he is swingin’ it well.
He did not swing the bat well in ST.”
sj44-
i always assumed that montero would be better off playing everyday in the cold spring at scranton and then when the weather and his bat heats up , come up when he’s in full sync .
i think back in january, nick in sf was lampooning me for saying that montero would be better off not dealing with the cold april in ny while trying to break in the majors.
nick ,as usual, was his humorous self with iceland references and the yankees scouting eskimos, but the yankees are the yankees . montero is going to be a big star. cashman and girardi made the right decision.
it’s a good sign and not a bad sign they are showing patience with montero.
LGY,
Why shouldn’t have they opened their mouths? They were, and still are, excited about his improvements.
They never guaranteed publicly, or privately, a roster spot for him.
The fact is, he struggled catching the guys he would have to catch at the ML level. He also struggled at the plate.
So, they had to make a judgment call since it was unlikely he was going to play 2-3 times a week.
Plans change. Happens all the time.
I can’t fault the Yankees though for praising a young player publicly.
I still don’t believe that the Yankees would have had Martin and Montero as their catchers, with Martin never having caught any of the rotation/potential rotation and Montero never having caught in the majors. I believe Cervelli was slated from day one and that it was not Montero’s to win or lose.
MO
I give Joe 2 big thumbs up for this: http://deadspin.com/#!5785787/.....ff-but-why
“The Yankees should know better than to get caught up in 1 or 2 weeks worth of play in ST.”
C’mon LGY, does anyone really think he’s not making the team because of his batting average.
Isn’t it entirely possible that the Yankees saw SOMETHING – about this approach, preparation, the way he handled slumping at the plate, any or all of the above or something else entirely that they weren’t comfortable with and made them reevaluate the situation?
Why is this very real possibility being ignored by the critics of the decision.
“No one is taking issue with them changing their mind. It is how they handled the situation in the media.”
Inventing some media strategy to somehow organically account for EVERY contingency is pretty much impossible, and not really worth the effort.
The only foolproof strategy is to say NOTHING or adhere strictly to the Crash Davis school of media relations. And that’s pretty much not possible in this day and ago.
randy – hi, there. How’s the golf game? Are you back home, or still in the warm weather?
They are/were obviously hot on Cervelli being the backup, the Molina move only solidifies that.
Would it have been nice if Montero stepped up and took the job from Cervelli without an injury? Of course it would!
That didn’t happen though, and Montero’s focus on his catching is enough of a distraction to derail his bat and have the management see him “pressing”.
IMO when Montero is ready to be a ML catcher it will be obvious, because it won’t be distracting him from his strongest aspect of the game, mashing baseballs.
“LGY,
Why shouldn’t have they opened their mouths? They were, and still are, excited about his improvements.
They never guaranteed publicly, or privately, a roster spot for him.
The fact is, he struggled catching the guys he would have to catch at the ML level. He also struggled at the plate.
So, they had to make a judgment call since it was unlikely he was going to play 2-3 times a week.
Plans change. Happens all the time.
I can’t fault the Yankees though for praising a young player publicly.”
SJ I agree with all of this except that he was part of their plan going into ST (if that’s what you are saying.) I think they wanted to see what he had but that Cervelli was going to start the season no matter what – absent injury.
I do not think the Yankees were going to chance using him with a rotation basically in flux and a brand new catcher coming over.
Again, JUMO
“What I understand you to be suggesting is the Yankees employ some sort of media strategy to account for BOTH contingencies –that he 1.) make the team as planned; or 2.) didn’t make the team as planned.”
No what Im suggesting is that they don’t need to make everything public knowledge. I disagree with you on the overall plan though. I think when they signed Martin they were planning on him starting in AAA unless he just destroyed ST and gave them no choice…..I think the Cervelli injury made them rethink the original plan…
“They are/were obviously hot on Cervelli being the backup, the Molina move only solidifies that.”
Absolutely.
blake -I disagree with the assertion that public perception of the prospects in the media (success or failure) has anything to do with… anything. It is certainly not changing the way the Yankees go about their business or make personnel decisions.
Frankly, I think this will end up serving Montero better not because he’ll be in AAA, playing in warmer weather, or getting the starting job every day but simply because this is his first taste of life as a NY Yankee. Kid failed before he even played a game for us.. go figure.
If he finds himself in the Majors this season or next, this entire experience of being hyped and humbled will be something he can draw from in the future. Hopefully it will simply be motivation.
JMO (as opposed to JUMO)
Didn’t read all of Girardi’s ST comments, probably didn’t read any of them! But having “followed” Girardi for the past few years I cannot imagine that he said anything at the beginning of ST resembling a guarantee that Montero was going to be it. Maybe I’m wrong. Perhaps people read into it what they wanted to hear?
Montero had actually started hitting the ball a little better towards the tail end of his big league camp. Also had a couple hits yesterday including a homerun in the intrasquad game.
It took about a week or ten days after he started focusing some attention back on his offensive game that the bat began to come around.
With all that said, I agree 100% with this decision. Having him sit and try to catch and or hit every third or fourth day is reasonably pointless. Let’s see what the Yankees have in Martin, how Cervelli comes back, and how Montero progresses in the minors and then all will be reassessed. Besides, keeping him in the minors for April buys the Yankees another year of his services. AND, the 40 man is easier to deal with by dumping Molina when Cervelli returns. With the Yankees lineup your back up catcher and number nine hitter will mean very little over 4-5 games in April.
I don’t think they are hot on Cervelli (how can anyone be so after last season). The Molina move merely demonstrates their unwillingness to have Montero or Romine up right now.
SJ,
I think the only point is that by making it seem that Montero was the favorite to win the job after Cervelli got hurt….it opened the door for articles to be written suggesting that he failed because he didn’t make the team…..like the one Sherman wrote this AM. I don’t think that’s fair and I certainly don’t think he failed because he didn’t make the club as a catcher at 21. That’s all Im saying at least……but either way Im ready for baseball to start.
Hey Trisha. I’m gonna go with 95 wins. Thanks
“You thought Montero had the job to lose, not Cervelli?”
Yes. I think the bar was lower for him to loss his job than it was for Nova or Garcia, but I genuinely thought his name was written in pencil on the 25 man roster going into spring training.
I didn’t argue that Montero wasn’t going North 10 days ago because I never thought he would, I argued it because I sensed he wasn’t holding onto his opportunity.
The sudden defensive regression, which was accompanied by some bad ABs was the tipping point. That is a larger issue than someone being unfairly judged by their batting average in ST.
We are 49 hours away!
Shall I watch it on ESPN or YESPN?
ID,
I never suggested it did. You aren’t talking about the same thing as I am.
I fully understand Montero and Romine being sent down for the betterment of their careers. It’s not understood when Cashman and Girardi arrived at the decision.
The day Cervelli went down, why didn’t Cashman use Romulo Sanchez and another low level propect to get a serviceable backup catcher to Russell Martin until Cervelli returns hopefully on or about May 1st. Let’s hope Martin as an injury-free April because the thought of Gustavo Molina as even the short term everyday catcher can’t be imagined.
“I don’t think they are hot on Cervelli (how can anyone be so after last season). The Molina move merely demonstrates their unwillingness to have Montero or Romine up right now.”
I took “hot on Cervelli” to mean that they knew he was the one they were taking north. I think ID probably meant it that way. I agree that they were not ready to bring either Montero or Romine up just yet.
I agree with blake’s take.
I don’t believe it was ever the Yank plan to have the unrelated Molina as the BUC. Montero wasn’t ready and I think it took the Yanks by surprise.
munson15, got your prediction.
People can feel free to leave predictions if I am not here. Please put my name in the post so I can make sure I find them.
You have until the first pitch of the first Yankee game to make your prediction. After that I am not taking any others. Last year I made an exception but no exceptions this year. (I hope)
Who isn’t hot on Cervelli? hubba hubba
As a follow-up.
I think if Montero had a relatively equivalent spring to Nova’s or Nunez’s, Cervelli’s fate might have been the same as Pena or Mitre’s
SJ,
It is not the praise. Praising his improvements is nice to hear. It was all the talk about how beneficial it would be for Montero to be with the club. How much value there is in that.
No one here can really say that Girardi did not give them the impression that Montero was all but guaranteed to get the job once Cervelli went down, right?
stuckey,
I am not talking about the 1-2 weeks of poor play. I was referring to the 1-2 weeks of good play that the Yankees got caught up in.
“I took “hot on Cervelli” to mean that they knew he was the one they were taking north. I think ID probably meant it that way. I agree that they were not ready to bring either Montero or Romine up just yet.”
I think they set the bat too high for Montero, and as blake pointed out, that set him up to be labeled as a failure.
bat = bar
There is a good article in today’s USA Today about the Yankees. It was not news breaking, but all in all, I found it pretty fair.
I’m guessing the Yankees will choose Garrison as a second lefty in the pen, but I was impressed with what I saw of Ayala. His pitches have a lot of movement.
I do not intend to offend anyone here, but some people and some if the media sound like jilted lovers. Nothing was promised, things change, and players aren’t quite ready for the big show. It’s not an indictment on the Yankees or the players. It’s just baseball. Happens every season in every camp.
And they’re not “hot” for Cervelli, the kids just haven’t surpassed him as a catcher.
Nice article on Molina:
“His experience convinced the Yankees, and it left an impression on Martin, who noticed that in some drills, Molina would use a smaller mitt. He said it helped improve his catching technique, trying to catch the ball in the same spot every time ? in the middle, against the left index finger.”
?It?s like practicing hitting with a broomstick and a smaller ball,? Martin said. ?You have to be perfect. He puts his defense first because he understands how important catching is. You can tell, he?s worked at it. He?s just smooth, man.?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03.....cmxshN6l9Q
“I don’t think that’s fair and I certainly don’t think he failed because he didn’t make the club as a catcher at 21.”
You just characterized Sherman’s article as “unfair”, yet the focus is being put in Girardi and Cashman.
Not a fan of the argument organizations need to be very, very careful what they say, as to not given the media any material to craft “unfair” articles out of them.
Why not just cut out the middleman and put the blame where it belongs?
As I say, overthinking…
Gustavo trying to become a legit Molina.
Sorry Gusto, they full up, no adoptions
hi joe-
golf is going well and i just tuned up my clubs. let me know when it’s in the 60′s back there where you are and i’ll head back. cape cod has been having trouble getting out of the low 40′s.
it’s going to be an interesting april with the yankees. i hope the big dogs start off well. especially teixeira, jeter, and alex.
Sherman’s article seemed perfectly reasonable to me.
“And they’re not “hot” for Cervelli, the kids just haven’t surpassed him as a catcher.”
I don’t think this is necessarily true.
I suspect that they would readily acknowledge that Montero could provide more offense/defense than Cervelli, but they may believe that such limited PT would stunt his development, so the benefit is not worth the cost.
“You now have to consider him a favorite to make this team. Yesterday Joe Girardi said Cervelli and Montero were the favorites because of their experience, and that would seem to make this Montero’s job to lose.”
“We thankfully, knock on wood, are catching deep,” Cashman said. “With Russell Martin’s addition and the developmental steps that Montero and Romine have taken, we’re covered. That’s one of our positions of strength, unlike most organizations.”
“Yankees GM Brian Cashman said Jesus Montero and Austin Romine are in a “cagefight” for the backup catcher job.”
==================
Gustavo Molina was not even an option a week ago.
They should have been prepared for a 21 year old to struggle and have ups and downs.
The Yankees got caught up in Montero’s good play early on.
How do you tell when Brian “Pinnochio” Cashman is lying? His lips are moving.
trisha – hmmmm… its so hard for me to make these predictions but I’m going to go with 97 wins this year.
“You made it sound as if Mick played a full regular season, and then was sent down, which is not the case.”
Big Al,
Shoot me for poorly stating what happened to Mick, but it doesn’t change my point that fans shouldn’t be concern when a young player is sent down for further seasoning or to get him to a better place playing-wise.
“How do you tell when Brian “Pinnochio” Cashman is lying? His lips are moving.”
When has he ever said something untrue that didn’t further the team’s strategic advantage?
It’s all fog of war stuff.
They should have been prepared for a 21 year old to struggle and have ups and downs.
The Yankees got caught up in Montero’s good play early on.
Nonsense.
“Nonsense.”
————–
Then how does Gustavo Molina have the job today?
How many different ways can you make the same assertion LGY? Which then leads to the same answers and why this board has been running around in circles tripping on itself since Friday.
Montero is not ready to catch in the majors. It had nothing to do with this “strong early spring” or his “poor late spring”, only the fact that he is defensively not ready. If they thought being a backup would be enough preparation to fix his defensive woes, Molina would be on a bus right now. They don’t, he’s not, yet here we still are…
That has nothing to do with the discussion about the Yankees comments in the media we are having today.