A trip around the room
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Apr 01, 2011 
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At the end of last season, I wrote about the layout of the Yankees clubhouse. I thought I might as well do the same thing at the beginning of this season.
As always, the Yankees clubhouse is a kind of oval, with the lockers along the edges and six flat screen televisions hanging from the ceiling in the middle. If you imagine the room as the face of a clock, there are doors at 12, 6 and 3. There’s a blank space of wall at 9. Each section isn’t perfectly equal, but the room is more or less divided into four quadrants. The ends of the room – basically from 11 to 1 and 5 to 7 – are flat walls, so those sections are kind of set apart as well.
Here’s the basic layout of who belongs where, using that imaginary clock to put everything in place.
From 11 to 1
empty, Jorge Posada, door, Derek Jeter, empty
The far end of the room is the exact same as last year. The door at 12 leads into the players-only area, Posada is on the left side of the door and Jeter is on the right. Both have an empty locker next to them, a show of respect for the two veteran position players. Those lockers are full of overflow stuff from Posada and Jeter, and from A.J. Burnett and Alex Rodriguez, who are on the other sides.
From 1 to 3
In order, beginning next to Jeter’s empty locker: A.J. Burnett, Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, CC Sabathia, Freddy Garcia, Bartolo Colon, Ivan Nova, Robinson Cano, Eduardo Nunez, Francisco Cervelli
Hughes took Andy Pettitte’s old locker, while Chamberlain and Sabathia moved down one space from last season. Cervelli is in the same locker as last season, right next to a door that leads back to the manager’s office.
From 3 to 5
In order, beginning next to the door leading to Girardi’s office: Roman Rodriguez, Anthony Flynn, Colin Curtis, empty
Aside from Rodriguez’s spot — he’s bullpen catcher with basically as much gear as a player — these are kind of mix-and-match lockers. Coaching assistant Brett Weber is also in the mix in this section, and for now Curtis is keeping his stuff over here. These lockers are a little more wideopen than the others, and they’ll be filled with young player when the roster expands in September.
From 5 to 7
In order, beginning next to the empty locker next to Curtis: empty, Gustavo Molina, door, Luis Ayala, empty
The media enters the clubhouse through the door at 6 o’clock, so this feels like the front of the room. Aside from Ayala’s locker — which belonged to Ramiro Pena last season — most of these lockers changed hands several times last year. Randy Winn, Dustin Moseley, Juan Miranda, Chad Huffman, Jonathan Albaladejo, Eduardo Nunez and Mark Melancon were all in this section at one point or another last season. Makes sense that the last two players on the roster would get lockers in this area.
From 7 to 9
In order, beginning right next to the empty locker by Ayala: Boone Logan, Dave Robertson, Mark Teixeira, Brett Gardner, Russell Martin, Eric Chavez and Nick Swisher
With two exceptions, this area is the exact same as last year. The only changes — obviously — are Martin and Chavez, who took lockers that were filled by Chad Moeller and Austin Kearns at the end of last season. Martin’s locker originally belonged to Nick Johnson last year. Chavez was positioned next to his old Oakland teammate Swisher. There’s a blank space of wall on the other side of Swisher’s locker.
From 9 to 11
In order, beginning with the wall next to Swisher and ending with the empty locker next to Posada: Mariano Rivera, Rafael Soriano, Damaso Marte, Pedro Feliciano, Curtis Granderson, Andruw Jones, Alex Rodriguez
In this section, only the Rivera, Granderson and Rodriguez lockers remain unchanged. Marte moved over one spot, and Feliciano took his old locker (and his old role as the lefty on the disabled list). Jones has taken Marcus Thames’ locker and role on the bench.
—
Turns out, my friend Marc Carig had the same idea for an off day blog post. Spend enough time with people in spring training, you start to think alike.
Red Sox trail 5-4 after 7 innings
Mitch Williams says the Red Sox AND Rangers have best offenses in majors :rolleyes:
When you try and stack Boston’s lineup….
I think the best 1-5 would be:
Crawford
Pedroia
Gonzalez
Youkalis
Oritz
it’s after that that it gets kinda tough how to stack it….the only other righty is Scutero (when Drew plays)…..so it’s tough to not have a bunch of lefites together 5-9.
My guess is that Francona just wanted his 6 best hitters 1-6 and decided to stack it the way he did to break it up left-right.
Guess you’re wrong.
——
Based on?
or you could go:
Pedroia
Crawford
Youk
Gonzalez
Ortiz
Drew
Scutero
Salt
Ellsbury
that gives you 3 lefties in a row 5-7 and only one right handed hitter after the 3rd hitter.
Gross
How does Darren Oliver bust A-gon to induce a dribbler, then drop an 89 mph fastball on the outside to Ortiz?
Ortiz has a Oliver fastball speed bat.
David Ortiz has more HR than Alex Rodriguez
Red Sox tied with Rangers 5-5
“Ellsbury took over the leadoff role during the Red Sox’ 2007 World Series run. In the last three seasons, he has had 1069 at bats atop the order hitting .279 with a .328 OBP. Last season Ellsbury had just 68 at bats in the leadoff spot, with injured ribs causing him to miss all but 18 games.”
—————-
Those are terrible numbers for a leadoff hitter.
Thank you for proving my point?
Ortiz looks like a beer keg with legs,fat b*St*Rd…
Fitnesscenter For-Jeden,
Let me know when Ortiz explains his positive test for roids. Still waiting for him to address it
Chew up the Boston bullpen in extra innings.
Red Sox tied with Rangers 5-5 after 8 innings
Funny how the announcers said once Ortiz arrived in Boston, he learned to handle the inside pitch,which troubled him in Minn….no mention of roids,of course…
I sure hope Bard never gets full control of that changeup. The first one he threw was nasty.
Dco Todd…..I was thinking the exact same thing
“Based on?”
Based on Francona knowing just a little more about the game than you do.
former Sox – David Murphy!!!!
DocTodd says:
April 1, 2011 at 7:11 pm
Funny how the announcers said once Ortiz arrived in Boston, he learned to handle the inside pitch,which troubled him in Minn….no mention of roids,of course…
——-
Well, in fairness, they didn’t say HOW he learned.
Bard LMAO…….he’s no Soriano baby!!!
Bard, future closer.
HOLY GOD!!!! The Sux’s bullpen is horrendous!!!!!
That all started with Bard being too cute and throwing a 3-2 slider to Napoli when he had thrown fastballs right by him.
“Funny how the announcers said once Ortiz arrived in Boston, he learned to handle the inside pitch,which troubled him in Minn”
————-
comparing anything Ortiz did in Minn with his later career is a joke.
and yes, then there is the roids
fitnesscenter –
Losing!
good point blake.
big mistake
Nice job by the Boston bullpen
Lol. Didn’t Murphy come in the failed trade for the Great Canadienne? His name escapes me.
Based on Francona knowing just a little more about the game than you do.
——
LOL!
Feliz time….nighty night Boston
Premature speculation. Red Sox losing 7-5 in bottom of 8th
never understand why guys that throw 100 mph throw 3-2 sliders with nobody on base.
Fitness Center clicked submit too early.
Sox should have brought in Bobby Stinks to pitch the 8th inning..
# DocTodd April 1st, 2011 at 7:11 pm
Funny how the announcers said once Ortiz arrived in Boston, he learned to handle the inside pitch,which troubled him in Minn….no mention of roids,of course…
___________
They are still waiting for Big Sloppy to get back to them on that. If MLB goes to blood testing, which might be a strong possibility given the mess of Bonds and Clemens and the Mitchell report, we might be seeing a big dip in the power department via magic shakes.
“Didn’t Murphy come in the failed trade for the Great Canadienne?”
————–
yup, along with Engel Beltre – who is one of Texas’ top prospects (OF)
Next best thing to Lester taking the loss – Lester giving up a ton of ER and sporting an 8.44 ERA to start off the season, and the Sux pen blowing it even worse.
I give you your (choke) 2011 pretenders – the Sux!!!!!
Bard padding his ERA!
Ellsbury is fast….but not fast enough there…..Bard looks sharp..
Can anyone be more stupid than California to continue to post here? Obviously a provincial dope who truly has never heard about karma.
my boy elvis! he’s on every one of my fantasy teams!
I’m still mad Andrus isn’t playing SS for the Braves right now….and that Feliz isn’t either their closer or dominating the NL in their rotation. The Braves don’t screw up much with that sort of thing, but they did in that trade to rent Mark Teixera.
mel, “Fitness Center” smells like E.R. California, smells like Ruby Tuesday.
I mean,
Ellsbury is fast….but not fast enough there
–
Ellsbury is fast but has no idea where the ball is going to land. Its why he dives so much. Takes the worst routes. The more they play him in CF the better.
Trisha
Is Crawford a good 3 hole hitter, because Tito said so???
Pour it on ! …. more insurance runs.
“I’m still mad Andrus isn’t playing SS for the Braves right now….and that Feliz isn’t either their closer or dominating the NL in their rotation. The Braves don’t screw up much with that sort of thing, but they did in that trade to rent Mark Teixera.”
Which is why all teams need to be careful of those “3rd and 4th” players in deals. Salty was supposed to be the crown jewel, but he is probably now the least productive player in that trade.
Bard sporting the 27.00 ERA
I had Elvis last year. But then again I probably had everybody last year. Pick ‘em up and drop ‘em as quickly.
Patient with the Yanks. Impatient in fantasy baseball.
“I’m still mad Andrus isn’t playing SS for the Braves right now….and that Feliz isn’t either their closer or dominating the NL in their rotation.”
————-
but then they wouldn’t have had Casey Kotchman
if Boston loses today….that means they can’t go 162-0
m, Eric Gagne.
Does this mean the Red Sox aren’t going 162-0?
Looks like the Boston pitching staff is getting knocked around a little bit. How unexpected……
“but then they wouldn’t have had Casey Kotchman
”
ugh
blake, I see we have the same concern
“Salty was supposed to be the crown jewel, but he is probably now the least productive player in that trade.”
————
funny how that worked out, isn’t it?
The Braves don’t screw up much with that sort of thing, but they did in that trade to rent Mark Teixera.
–
Too be fair, they were trying to win it all with Bobby Cox and were going to have Tex for 1.5 years. Feliz was in rookie ball and Andrus in low A. Good scouting by the Rangers? Bad self scouting by the braves?
You’re right the Braves usually don’t miss on guys they trade away, but I guess being so low in the minors had a little to do with it.
ER is easier type. At least it’s not banned in the comment section.
I must say I’m enjoying watching this,almost as much as I enjoyed the Yankees win yesterday
if Boston loses today….that means they can’t go 162-0
****************
That will probably devastate the experts at ESPN.
Red Sox losing 8-5 at the conclusion of 8 innings
“Trisha
Is Crawford a good 3 hole hitter, because Tito said so???”
I love when you show what an idiot you are with questions that bare no resemblance to the initial point.
I have a good idea! Write a few hundred posts about how Montero is going to be the back up catcher when the Yanks break camp!
Bye now. I need to watch something meaningful – like the Sux doing their thing and Ellsbury killing the ball.
The Braves might have ‘tex’d’ us with the Vazquez deal. Vizcaino is a rookie ball pitcher that could end up being a Feliz type.
Win some, lose some?
I just remembered that Bard is on my fantasy team, but I dont even care, this inning is amusing.
“if Boston loses today….that means they can’t go 162-0
****************
That will probably devastate the experts at ESPN.”
Ahh, somebody get Bard outta there.
Does it get any better than this????
They won’t go 162-0. But they might go 161-1…YEAH RIGHT!!
Red Sox losing 9-5 at the conclusion of 8 innings?
Hey, the guys at EEI said Bard should be their closer!
Cool.
“Which is why all teams need to be careful of those “3rd and 4th” players in deals. Salty was supposed to be the crown jewel, but he is probably now the least productive player in that trade.”
Its the danger of dealing top prospects for a rental. If you can’t re-sign the player then it’s a big risk.
Ellsbury’s leadoff stats you posted are below average, so I don’t get the argument.
Impressive BP.
Wilsey Moore’s got nothin on you Bard!
I was going to predict Joba with a lower ERA than Bard this year, but never got around to it.
Disingenuous to do it now?
How about that Sox Bullpen.
“Ahh, somebody get Bard outta there.
Does it get any better than this????”
Keep watching!
Doesn’t get much better for anyone who has been preaching that the 2011 Sux are wearing the Emperor’s new clothes!!!!
Remember,ESPN = Exclusive Sox Patriots Network
Texas must be pretty good if they are beating all world Beantown All Star Team! Let’s see, there is AL, NL & Texas? LOL!
Bring in Papelfool to put the game on ice if it isn’t already.
Thanks, Gagne is the name. Was all that damage done to Bard?
Happy days.
Maybe the Sox think it’s still ST, and this one doesn’t count.
If Ellsbury is such a great leadoff hitter why was he moved to the bottom of the order a number of times? Why are his numbers worse from the leadoff spot?
just remembered that Bard is on my fantasy team, but I dont even care, this inning is amusing.
*********************
NYY626,
But you also have Napoli who got a big hit
Bard ERA update: 36.00
trisha,
Please don’t cry because your argument is terrible.
“Its the danger of dealing top prospects for a rental. If you can’t re-sign the player then it’s a big risk.”
————-
the re-sign is a key. Atlanta did try to resign Tex but obviously balked at the asking price. The fact that Boras was his agent should have probably played into it more than it did. Tex was most likely going to see the free agent market.
It’s hard to say acquiring an elite player for prospects, when you’re trying to make a run at the playoffs is a terrible idea… as JF said… but it didn’t work out at all that time.
Wakefield! Is he younger or older than Niekro?
Well I guess The BoSox aren’t going wire to wire as so many of the talking heads were predicting……Yanks are at home for much of April and if they break out of the gate fast ( 15-5 or so ) we’ll see how quickly Boston is no longer the flavor of the month…….Wake is in, Tito’s white flag
NYY626 – Retire 46 April 1st, 2011 at 7:22 pm
I just remembered that Bard is on my fantasy team, but I dont even care, this inning is amusing.
___
I was wondering who had him.
Wakefield looks like he sHould be piTching in a friggin softball beer league..
“Ellsbury’s leadoff stats you posted are below average, so I don’t get the argument.”
It was part of the entire quote.
You have to look at the leadoff hitter wholistically. You know that I am not driven by cold stats jerkface. You can imagine that there are many leadoff hitters who do not have as high an OBP as others in the lineup but whose speed or kind of hitting is better suited for the top of the order.
Mo Lester had a great day today
I guess Daniel Bahhhhddd isn’t the second coming
Aw shucks
Couldn’t happen to a worse set of douches
Red Sox losing 9-5 at the conclusion of 8 innings
I’m not going to get too excited about Lester because he’s a notorious slow starter, but it’s nice to see Bard blow up.
So much for being the 1927 Yankees, who were in first place every day of that yr.
.
“trisha,
Please don’t cry because your argument is terrible.”
Talk to Tito. He said he really respects your opinion even though it doesn’t typically accord with good baseball.
Bye now!
Jerkface,
I think the biggest thing was though that after they traded for him….they then dealt him for Casey Kotchman! Of course he was in his walk year at that point. That’s the way it goes…..if Smoak goes on to have a great career in Seattle then the Rangers traded him away for half a season of Cliff Lee….
I missed a lot today.
Nothing from 3:15 on.
Almost ready to leave for vacation.
Did the Red Sox end up losing?
Was there a save situation for Texas?
Have a great week everyone!!!
Fran the original April 1st, 2011 at 7:25 pm
just remembered that Bard is on my fantasy team, but I dont even care, this inning is amusing.
*********************
NYY626,
But you also have Napoli who got a big hit
_______________________________
You win some, you lose some?
Wakefield’s role now is equivalent to that of the guy they call to clean up the stopped up toilet in the food court bathroom in the mall….he just cleans up the cr@p others leave for him..
fitness….
3 words for you…
…wire to wire!
LIVE IT!
“I’m not going to get too excited about Lester because he’s a notorious slow starter, but it’s nice to see Bard blow up”
I’m damned excited! I’m excited enough for both of us.
The eyes of Gammons have welled up. Now ordering 2 gin & tonics at a time.
Price strikes out the side.
Doreen, have a wonderful time! We will definitely miss you here.
Casey Crotchman stinks..
“It’s hard to say acquiring an elite player for prospects, when you’re trying to make a run at the playoffs is a terrible idea…”
it’s not always a bad idea….it’s just a risk, and is even more of a risk for teams that won’t play with the big boys in free agency…..because you really are putting all your eggs in that season’s basket to win a championship.
“The eyes of Gammons have welled up. Now ordering 2 gin & tonics at a time.”
Feliz is awesome, by the way.
1998 Yankees did not lead wire to wire. 2011 Red Sox > 1998 Yankees
Hoping that Michael Young got at least a hit in this Rangers slugfest…
Trisha -
I got your post from much earlier about Easter Dinner. If I have time, I will contact you, but quickly, don’t feel obligated to serve an antipasto.
The way I look at it is, if everyone else does, why should you have to? Be different!!
I think the biggest thing was though that after they traded for him….they then dealt him for Casey Kotchman
–
Yea that was funny. They basically gave up a pot of gold for him, then traded him for some rusty copper.
The Braves should just trust their system.
California, drown yourself.
“.if Smoak goes on to have a great career in Seattle then the Rangers traded him away for half a season of Cliff Lee….”
———
and even then they can say they got to the WS and almost had it
plus they got the two draft picks that the Braves didnt.
And I’m rooting against Smoak, even though maybe I shouldn’t, because I really don’t like Jack Z after he used the Yanks.
D, thanks! Obviously I have time so even if it waits ’til you get back, I’ll be fine.
Doreen, bottom of the 8th inning, Bard blew up allowing 4 runs, 9-5 Texas in top of the 9th now.
Hmmm. I shouldn’t get too excited. If the Sux get the next 8 men on base, they might be able to tie the score.
.if Smoak goes on to have a great career in Seattle then the Rangers traded him away for half a season of Cliff Lee
–
I’m torn on this, on one hand I want Smoak to do well to stick it to the Rangers for trading for Lee then not re-signing him. On the other hand I want Smoak’s inability to hit LHP to continue and have him bust while Montero thrives to stick it to the Mariners for kind of dissing Montero by not trading for him.
6-9 in the Sox lineup was 1-14 in this game and 7-9 was 0-10. There is a big drop off after Gonzalez and a nose dive after Ortiz. As I’ve said before, 1-5 Boston’s lineup is comparable to the Yanks….6-9 it’s not really close.
Well,once again Gammons will go to bed too drunk to brush his teeth….
I have the NESN feed. Tito looks like he’s going to vomit.
trisha – red striped socks > trisha – true pinstriped blue
Doreen….I’ll bring Deviled eggs
obviously this is just one game, but considering 95% of the “experts” picked the Sox to win the AL and WS,
is there actually pressure on Buccholz to keep the “champs” from going 0-2?
Ys Guy April 1st, 2011 at 5:01 pm
this just in…
adrian gonzalez is a good hitter no matter what uni he’s wearing…
___________________
I don’t know. I’d like to see him try hitting wearing just diapers….Depends would be okay too. But that’s just me being skeptical.
BD,
I was rooting for the C’s last night
JF,
I don’t think he’ll bust totally, I think he’ll be a decent player…….but I think they’ll have wished they had taken Montero instead before it’s over.
Trolls with multiple identities who play name/word games?
How did we get so blessed.
Awwwww. Sux aren’t even going to make this interesting. I wanted them to get their little hearts beating thinking they might put something together and BAM!
“Well,once again Gammons will go to bed too drunk to brush his teeth….”
————
haha, that’s just cruel
about as cruel as making people watch him in HD
I don’t think he’ll bust totally, I think he’ll be a decent player…….but I think they’ll have wished they had taken Montero instead before it’s over.
-
As long as he plays in Safeco (what is it with the Co parks?) he will never reach his potential, and he should also give up switch hitting.
Fitness….You remind me of someone, or of several Sybil types that visit us with a very similar desperate sense of humor….Which one of these individuals will you be tonight ????
http://oneifbylandsports.blogs.....balls.html
My favorite article on Ellsbury and Gardener.
Especially last winter when Gardner was a Schlump rated by a large number Lohud fans weeping for Melky
haha m
i know you were.
I hate to say it but I doubted the Lakers earlier in the season and they’re making me look like a fool right now.
they went from a “no defense old bunch” to the favorites in the West.
I should have known better
I think PG’s teeth are actually oak…he paints varnish on at night instead of brushing.
BD,
Lackey is starting game 2, Buch game 3
no wire to wire
The Yankees #8 hitter is Granderson, who can have 30 HR/20 SB. The Red Sox #8 hitter is Scutaro/Saltalamacchia. It’s really not close.
Red Sox lose 9-5
Red Sox 0-1
Feliz Opening Day!
Feliz Opening Day!
Feliz Opening Day from the botton of my heat.
I want to wish you a merrcy Opening Day!
I want to wish you a merry Opening Day!
I want to wish you a merry Opening Day
From the bottom of my hea-a-a-art!
Doreen
I cleaned out my inbox so I dont have your email. I was going to forward you the flyer about opening day. If you could send me a blank email, Ill forward it to you. Hopefully the weather cooperates next week. The way the sky was so clear, you would never know we had tornado warnings all day yesterday.
trisha – true pinstriped blue April 1st, 2011 at 7:35 pm
I have the NESN feed. Tito looks like he’s going to vomit.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Why? is he sitting between youkilis and Pedroia?
Man Ellsbury was way overmatched in the ab.
Hee hee hee!
Love that article, Bo!
REZ12,
you are right, my bad.
same idea but even worse for the Sox. I can see Lackey struggling against Texas.
0-2 Sox!! cmon Texas!
Can someone explain how on Earth this Red Sox team actually lost a ballgame today??I am totally confused,I just don’t understand how it can happen!
Did the Red Sox just lose? How did this happen?
“Trolls with multiple identities who play name/word games?
How did we get so blessed.
”
Yeah, hit by the same reality a bit earlier. Scum floats and apparently the forum gates were open.
Marco. Scutaro. Marco. Scutaro.
“Can someone explain how on Earth this Red Sox team actually lost a ballgame today??I am totally confused,I just don’t understand how it can happen!”
“Did the Red Sox just lose? How did this happen?”
Just listen to Patricia Perspicacious when it comes to all things Suxian and you will never go wrong.
I TOLD YOU THEY SUCK!!!!!
Did the Red Sox just lose? How did this happen?
–
Somehow the 1000 run offense scored 1 less than the Yankees while the staff of aces and shut down bullpen gave up 6 more runs than the Yankees.
Ladies and gentleman, please welcome your last place Boston Red Sox!!
Did they have to pass out anti-depressants to the ESPN announcers?
watching that Murphy AB again, he really did a nice job with that pitch.
Bard’s fastball was 96 and tailing away off the plate and Murphy went with it and took it down the opposite field line.
nice piece of hitting there.
Twins not playing fundamental baseball.
at least Saltamacchia looked good….oh wait
This just in. Joba Chamberlain has more victories than the entire Boston Red Sox staff.
“at least Saltamacchia looked good….oh wait”
—————
hey, give him credit for calling the 3-2 slider to Napoli… oh wait
Ah. Great graphic just put up by NESN
LESTER. FIRST START WITHOUT A STRIKEOUT SINCE APRIL 8, 2009.
I’d say that’s more than just a slow April, Triple!
“This just in. Joba Chamberlain has more victories than the entire Boston Red Sox staff.”
YES!!!!
Hardee har har har har har!
Aren’t we a happy lot!
BTW Trisha! Ellsbury had 2 hits & a walk at the leadoff spot. With young guys like him, past performance is not a guide for future performance. I truly believe he is their best leadoff hitter. Do i like him, no. But he has potential. If I were the Beantown Mgr I’d have the following lineup for 1-6.
Ellsbury
Crawford
Peds
Gonzalez
Youk
Drew/Ortiz
No strikeouts????
Man, I pick one Red Sox and he can’t deliver!!!!
LOL/
Pavano looks good so far lol
I think I agree with RayVT on the lineup, certainly against righties.
If Crawford really struggles against lefties, it makes sense to move him down. Who cares how much $$ he makes?
“Twins not playing fundamental baseball.”
Oh dear. So far my fantasy team is not being very productive for me!
But who cares. The ones who count are, and will continue to be. That would be the New York Yankees.
The ones who suck will continue to suck. That would be the Boston Dead Sux.
Bank it!
Man, I pick one Red Sox and he can’t deliver!!!!
*******************
Doreen,
I get double joy out of that one
As long as the Mets lose tonight it will be a perfect start to the baseball season
“As long as the Mets lose tonight it will be a perfect start to the baseball season”
—————
well, Brandon Lyon prevented it from truly being perfect
That Mauer Head and Shoulders commerical is pretty funny.
Patricia Persnickety > Patricia Perspicacious
Bobby Valentine will mysteriously vanish from the ESPN game panels.
BD (Boston Dave) April 1st, 2011 at 7:50 pm
Thanks! If Ellsbury gets on, his speed will get Crawford more fastballs to hit. I like that speed as a 1-2 punch.
Yep, I’ve been snickering about that Ellsbury – Gardner article forever. As good a CF as Granderson is Gardner might be better (being polite here after that great Curtis catch).
Let’s compare Ellsbury to another center fielder picked completely at random — or, you know, not. Let’s compare him to Yankees center fielder Brett Gardner, an outfielder who will be replaced by Curtis Granderson next season because he wasn’t good enough to play every day.
Well, actually, Gardner was really good in the field:
* Deep fly balls: plus-6
* Medium fly balls: plus-1
* Shallow fly balls: plus-4
Written by a Boston Pro Sport blog writer Dec 2009
Great article and with facts yet.
Ellsbury in the lead off spot will be short lived like it has been every other time Tito has put him there.
He already said he is on a short leash.
On the other hand, as a Yankee fan I love him leading off.
RayVT, absolutely right. He’s still a kid. The others there are veterans and Tito knows where they need to be placed.
Ellsbury gives them everything they need in a leadoff hitter. In the others 2-6 you have a lot more power and they are better suited to hit people in than to be slap singles hitters (if they could do it) setting the table. It seems to me a lot of people have done incredible denial on the embarrassment Ellsbury caused us and Andy when he stole home. That one is still burnished in my brain!
I will continue to say that I think Ellsbury going down last season hurt the Sux much more than any of their other players going down. The kid offers so many different things on top of the lineup. His speed alone will guarantee more potential runs than anyone else leading off.
If Ellsbury gets on
–
If. He is a slasher, hacker. Doesn’t walk a lot. He is more a bottom of the order type in my opinion.
Twins cookie-cutter pitching staff getting knocked around. They need some swing and miss guys
It seems to me a lot of people have done incredible denial on the embarrassment Ellsbury caused us and Andy when he stole home. That one is still burnished in my brain!
–
One thing happening, completely unrelated to him leading off, doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things.
Boston is a flawed team IMO. Weak defense up the middle. C/SS/CF Unreliable Closer. 3 SP with fairly big question marks. Those 3 question marks will wear down a pretty good BP.
I also think Papi is a drag too. Hopefully, they don’t replace old Papi with Drew at DH & move Cameron’s weak stick from RF & replace him with one of the youngsters from last year. (Kalish?)
“If Crawford really struggles against lefties, it makes sense to move him down. Who cares how much $$ he makes?”
////
joe torre agrees (from a distance)
“If Ellsbury gets on, his speed will get Crawford more fastballs to hit. I like that speed as a 1-2 punch.”
———–
Boston really needs both of those guys to get on base. Obviously, they can wreak havok on the basepaths but more importantly, it will keep most of Adrian Gonzalez’s projected 85 extra base hits this season of the solo-HR variety or doubles with nobody on base.
I think Youk and Gonzo will hit the ball…. but if the Sox 1-2 guys aren’t getting on base, they’ll struggle to score runs.
Ellsbury and Crawford’s OBP could be one of the biggest factors for the Sox this season.
YankeesNmore must be slippng out of his RS un i to get in some negative shots at the Yankees soon.
All the RS trolls are crying so hard, they can’t see the keyboard to blog.
Ellsbury and Gardner are very similar. I’m not going to trash Ellsbury.
Ortiz, Papelbon, Drew? Open season.
of course, Pedroia is the 2 hitter at the moment. but it still applies… Sox need Ellsbury and Crawford getting on base.
Love how LGY feels the need to win whatever arugment he’s fighting and so throws everything but the kitchen sink in to keep it up.
I guess I will pull out his latest ridiculous offering – “Ellsbury in the lead off spot will be short lived like it has been every other time Tito has put him there.
He already said he is on a short leash.
On the other hand, as a Yankee fan I love him leading off.”
and use it every time the Sux play to show just how totally unaware and wrong he is.
But what do I know. He knew Montero was coming up to start the season…
If Crawford has a couple more games like today, he better get armed guards to protect him in Boston.
trisha,
Ellsbury hurt them more then Pedroia and Youkolis going down?
“Doreen April 1st, 2011 at 7:48 pm
No strikeouts????
Man, I pick one Red Sox and he can’t deliver!!!!
LOL/ ”
/////
trade you jorge de la rosa for him! (sergio mitre?)
Jerkface April 1st, 2011 at 7:57 pm
I tend to agree with you for years past about Ellsbury. But I think something clicked this Spring & he has been awesome & I repeat I don’t like him! His speed in front of all that power is a major concern for oposing pitchers. Having to throw more FB because he is on base in front of Beantown’s best hitters is not a pleasant thought.
As much as I detest the Sux, I fear what Ellsbury can do to hurt us and every other team. No other player. Just Ellsbury.
Obvious high praise coming from me. Oh yeah. I happen to watch all of their games.
Ellsbury has maintained the same isolated discipline (the amount of his OBP brought on by walks) for his entire career. In the minors and all.
Later folks, have a good night.
“trisha,
Ellsbury hurt them more then Pedroia and Youkolis going down?”
Triple, absolutely.
Do you watch Sux games? All of them? Have you watched Ellsbury when he gets on base? Have you watched him go from first to third without blinking?
I said last season, and I stick by it, that the key to their season going down the tubes was Ellsbury being out of the lineup.
I apparently am not thrown if people agree or disagree.
I see Ellsbury as a clone of Gardner. He may have turned the corner in his career, and I would expect him to put up good numbers…but a lousy glove in CF…
Teams should just start running on Boston in batting practice and continue throughout the game.
I have 3 RSox on my FBB roster. Ellsbury & Scutaro & Papelbon. The 2 latter ones I would like to get rid of.
Aside from their speed Gardner and Ells are not really simular much at all.
Gardner is way better defensively and a patient hitter., with a great understanding if the strike zone.
Good night Bigie.
BoJo April 1st, 2011 at 8:04 pm
I agree on the glove part.
LGY–I am definitely thinking of their speed and what they can do on base as the main reason I see them as clones. They are disruptive players.
I watch the Sox games and I know what trisha is saying.
Ellsbury has an effect on the game the same way a Jose Reyes did when he was on his game. He can really help dictate how the offense is going to “run”.
But ellsbury has struggled as well, fortunately. Still, if he picks up his game, he’s a legit factor.
Crawford has adjustments to make both on and off the field. He’s surrounded by a different cast and far more media than he ever saw in Tampa Bay with just a few regular beat writers giving him preferred status as the face of the franchise.
Beansville writers will be at his locker asking about today’s 3 K’s and the fickle fans will question the $142M contract.
Ellsbury is bigger with more power, but still weak overall, has worse plate discipline but better at slashing for average. Plays worse defense. Is a more aggressive base stealer.
trisha,
Youkolis is one of the best hitters in the AL not to mention the heart and soul of their team but we can agree to disagree
Ellsbury is a better pure hitter right now than Garder….just has a better swing and more pop….but he doesn’t get on base as much and isn’t as good of a defender.
In his career Ellsbury takes less extra bases than the league average.
Big Al – Following up with you on our conversation earlier on the decline in baseball’s popularity; especially with kids. You had asked me for some reference – here is a very recent article from the Wall Street Journal.
http://online.wsj.com/article/.....82750.html
Someone mentioned today that they liked the Cleveland uniforms, which prompted me to go look up the old uniforms from the 65-68 era. In doing so, I came across a name that would be a perfect role model for Brett Gardner.
How many of you saw Vic Davallio play?
Fran -
Y’s Guy -
I’ll hold on for one more start…I think.
I’m thinking specifically of how Vic used to bunt.
“In his career Ellsbury takes less extra bases than the league average.”
————
if true, that’s very interesting.
question?
How many innings will it take for bard to get his era to respectable numbers?
Thanks BD. And I think the Jose Reyes example is a perfect one.
Maybe looking at cold stats people wouldn’t be able to understand just how destructive Ellsbury can be. But you watch the games and know exactly what I’m talking about. I can’t think of a better leadoff hitter for the Sux.
anyone check out the new mlb gameday at mlb.com?
like how they show the video game image of the ballpark where the game is at
Rocks in the 11th inning. Looks like the Dbacks might take this game. Putz on for the DBacks. When he’s on, he is on.
Benny Blanco April 1st, 2011 at 8:11 pm
question?
How many innings will it take for bard to get his era to respectable numbers?
___________________________
17 more scoreless innings.
if true, that’s very interesting.
–
League average is 40%, Ellsbury at 37%.
Gardner at 51%
Jerkface, stats don’t tell the entire story, but even so, Ellsbury’s stats are very decent. He has barely played two years in the show when he was healthy. In those two years he stole 50 and 70 bases, had 155 and 188 hits and a .280 and .301 BA. He had a great spring this year and could cause havoc on the bases. He’s a guy to fear.
Gardner also scores more runs per times on base than Ellsbury. DESTRUCTION!
Bojo -
I remember the name.
“anyone check out the new mlb gameday at mlb.com?
like how they show the video game image of the ballpark where the game is at”
—————
yeah – I like the changes too. It’ll take a little while to get used to but it looks great.
wayne hagen just dropped the ‘no-no’ into the broadcast (josh johnson through the 4th i think)
in fairness, i’ve heard him ‘jinx’ met’s pitchers, too.
as the met’s play their 50th opener its still hard to imagine how they still have never had a no hitter thrown for them.
(seaver…gooden…)
He’s a guy to fear.
–
How about: He is a guy that could prove to be above average? Why does he have to be feared?
“In his career Ellsbury takes less extra bases than the league average.”
While that may be true, I guarantee you he gets from first to third on relatively cheap hits and scores more runs on relatively cheap hits, much more than anyone else on that team has the ability to do.
Runs count. He generates activity and excitement.
RSN has been all abuzz about bard taking pap’s place this year.
did a good paps imitation today!
Gameday fail. They don’t have the Trop’s catwalks.
“Gardner also scores more runs per times on base than Ellsbury. DESTRUCTION!”
Uh, I didn’t know this was Garnder v. Ellsbury. You’re in the wrong ball park if you think that has anything to do with anything I’ve been talking about.
He generates activity and excitement.
–
These don’t mean runs. He doesn’t score every time he gets on, he doesn’t take an extra base every time he gets on, or even steal every time he gets on. And he doesn’t get on a lot!
Getting on base trumps speed. Obviously getting on base WITH speed trumps getting on base. Ellsbury has yet to master that second part.
Doreeny–
Vic was 5’7″ and weighed MAYBE 150 lbs after a big meal, yet won 1 GG and had a pretty great year in 1965. But what I remember him for is how great he was at laying down bunts….could seemingly put the ball where ever he wanted whenever he wanted.
trisha,
the key has and may always be getting on base for Ellsbury. If he improves his plate discipline, the Sox offense might actually have a shot at coming even close to the lofty predictions they’ve been given from the “experts.”
Yankees 1.000
Red Sox .000
lol Damon in left field just now
There are a lot of players that are as fast as ellsbury in the league: Rajai Davis, Michael Bourne, etc.
No one is scared of these guys.
“# m April 1st, 2011 at 8:16 pm
Gameday fail. They don’t have the Trop’s catwalks.
”
the new turf looks a lot better
I have no desire to debate the meaning of words with you Jerkface. I think Ellsbury is a very good player who is perfectly suited to hit leadoff. He’s a good hitter who is arguably among the best base stealers in baseball and he will cause teams lots of problems due to his speed.
I think what Jerkface is trying to say is that if you like Ellsbury, then you should love Gardner.
Price getting knocked around too….
BD, I’ve seen Ellsbury get on base more than not get on base.
It doesn’t really matter to me how anybody else parses it. The kid is a one-man destruction crew and he is dangerous. I slept well last year with him on the DL. Pedroia, Pukeface, anybody else didn’t matter to me. Ellsbury did.
“If he improves his plate discipline, the Sox offense might actually have a shot at coming even close to the lofty predictions they’ve been given from the “experts.”
I’ll still take my chances that they are going down the tubes. But I’ll tell you what. He’s certainly going to give them more of a chance to look decent. In the final analysis though it isn’t going to matter.
I am willing to make a bet with anyone that Ellsbury, if he stays healthy, is going to be their leadoff guy for the majority of the season. I’m willing to say all season but there could be isolated games where he isn’t.
I just jinxed the Rays. I was telling my dad the box score and the page refreshed and all the sudden they were losing 0-4. I want them to lose obviously but I like David Price.
Owwwwwwwwwwww–the Price is Wrong!
For his career, Ellsbury goes 1st to 3rd (not just extra bases overall) less than league average. So I think his going to third on bloops or whatever is overstated. Its not showing up in his runs scored, or anything like that.
“I have no desire to debate the meaning of words with you Jerkface. I think Ellsbury is a very good player who is perfectly suited to hit leadoff. He’s a good hitter who is arguably among the best base stealers in baseball and he will cause teams lots of problems due to his speed”
That would be a bingo.
They don’t play for Boston Jerkface — and it’s Michael Bourn not Bourne.
“For his career, Ellsbury goes 1st to 3rd (not just extra bases overall) less than league average. So I think his going to third on bloops or whatever is overstated. Its not showing up in his runs scored, or anything like that.”
Show me that stat.
Because I absolutely and unequivocally do not believe it.
I’ve seen Ellsbury get on base more than not get on base.
–
observation and confirmation bias at work.
one thing about Price though is he won’t walk batters, if you are going to beat him it’s going to be hits from in the strike zone( 1 walk so far tonight)….that in the long term is better than guys like dice k that constantly walk the bases loaded
Show me that stat.
–
http://www.baseball-reference......ning::none
68 times in his career Ellsbury has been on 1st with a chance to advance for extra bases. He went to third 17 times. 25%
Just in 2010 there were 4282 chances for the entire league to advance an extra base and they made it 1229 times 28%
“There are a lot of players that are as fast as ellsbury in the league: Rajai Davis, Michael Bourne, etc.
No one is scared of these guys.”
Can you possibly stick to the discussion. We, or at least I, was talking one team and its players and who is best suited to lead off. Ellsbury is by far best suited to lead off for that team. For a lot of reasons. And in the final analysis, and not that I knew this going in since I have been touting Ellsbury for a while now, Francona feels the same way.
I’ll let him break the tie.
The rest just doesn’t matter.
Jerkface, it’s just one game, but today is what I think Ellsbury is capable of, and why Francona has him heading lead off in front of four very good hitters. He went 2 for 3 (including a double) with 2 runs scored a walk and a steal.
Face is the LoHud’s equivalent of Papal Infallibility……He’s never wrong even when he is wrong….He’ll pull out some stat that supports his rebuttal but will disregard the entire body of work…..Ellsbury is a fine ballplayer and if Gardner can reach that level then the Yanks are a better club…..Watch the game face and not the stat sheets….Your shine is losing it’s luster
Price is doing his best Lester impression.
Oh wait, Price has 6ks, hasn’t hit any batters, and hasn’t given up 3 HR.
(in all fairness, Mitch Williams said Texas had the 2nd best offense in baseball and Price is getting hit by Buck showalter’s Orioles)
Ouch, poor Mutts… errr… Mets.
grand slam john buck off pelfrey 4-0 marlins
Chamberlain visits MLBFanCave. Tries to beat man with pool cue.
http://twitpic.com/4fuqtx
If he is such a great lead off hitter why are his stats worse then when he hits further down the lineup?
grand slam for the Fish
Ellsbury is by far best suited to lead off for that team. For a lot of reasons.
–
I would go Crawford, Pedroia, Youkilis, A-Gon, Ortiz, Drew.
Or maybe even Pedroia Drew
John Buck slams Mets
pelfrey must’ve thought he could fool him with the slowball down the middle…
Jerkface, instead of spending time looking up stats, why don’t you spend the time looking up even one instance where you said you were wrong. I’m serious, there are hundreds of posters here and all smack talk aside, sometimes others are right and not you. I’m wrong a lot, so are many others. Nothing for you to fear.
“Face is the LoHud’s equivalent of Papal Infallibility……He’s never wrong even when he is wrong….He’ll pull out some stat that supports his rebuttal but will disregard the entire body of work…..Ellsbury is a fine ballplayer and if Gardner can reach that level then the Yanks are a better club…..Watch the game face and not the stat sheets….Your shine is losing it’s luster”
Thanks Pat M. I know I have this one right.
And anyway, this really isn’t a discussion of Ellsbury v the league. This is a discussion of Ellsbury v his teammates.
He’s unequivocally best suited to lead off for the Sux. Period.
Ellsbury is a fine ballplayer and if Gardner can reach that level then the Yanks are a better club…..Watch the game face and not the stat sheets
–
If you watched the games you’d see Ellsbury is a bad fielder and a weak hitter that doesn’t get on base as much as Gardner???
And you’d also see that Jeff Mathis stinks.
But yea, I don’t watch the games. (Hint: I’m actually watching two games right now!)
Mets hahaha
why don’t you spend the time looking up even one instance where you said you were wrong
–
I said I was wrong to Mell a long time ago. Lost to the annals of time.
RayVT April 1st, 2011 at 8:04 pm
I have 3 RSox on my FBB roster. Ellsbury & Scutaro & Papelbon. The 2 latter ones I would like to get rid of
So would the Red Sox … at least that seems to be their plan for next year.
BD, I’ve seen Ellsbury get on base more than not get on base
——
I hope you realize how ridiculous thus statement is
Jerkface,
Crawford doesn’t like leading off. he is a perfect number 2 hitter. I would put Pedroia first
If he is such a great lead off hitter why are his stats worse then when he hits further down the lineup?
–
Stats don’t count, the only thing that counts is that one time I saw Ellsbury hit a leadoff HR, so as far as I’m concerned he is the most dangerous hitter ever.
I actually saw Brett Gardner hit a grand slam , in person no less, off Mark Beurhle. SO I guess he should be hitting cleanup?
Ellsbury has to reach Gardner’s level.
Not the other way around.
Bad day for my fantasy team today mostly thanks to the Astros’ closer and Halladay not getting the win.
No Yankees or Red Sox on my team, I do not believe. Lots of NL players who I am not familiar with yet
===================
I spent the last couple of hours catching with what I missed…not much after all that reading :laugh:
trisha – true pinstriped blue,
If he is better suited to lead off why was he ever removed from the position?
I thought Tampa Bay had a dome. Why is every ball hitting the grass in the outfield kicking up tons of water?
I guarantee you jerkface that you don’t watch as many Sux games as I do, or BD does.
I wouldn’t be talking about Ellsbury if I didn’t see it with my own eyes because I am not stat driven.
Francona has tapped him to lead off for a lot of reasons. Francona has a better handle on his team than you do. Fact.
I guarantee you jerkface that you don’t watch as many Sux games as I do, or BD does.
–
You don’t know a lick about me, for all we know we BOTH watch a bunch of sox games. Which is fine, how many games we both watch doesn’t matter. I watch nearly EVERY sox game each year, because I participate in more baseball discussion than goes on here at LOHUD and I like to smack talk the red sox fans. I have MLB.TV premium, Extra innings, and the local rays broadcast. I watch 300+ games a year.
But please, tell me how many more sox games you watch than me.
Triple, you can argue this out with someone else. I know what I’m talking about and Francona has tapped Ellsbury to lead off. If you’re not comfortable with that, oh well. You’ll just have to tell it to your diary because it doesn’t appear that your argument is going to take the real day.
*************
Have a good night all. I definitely will post LGY’s post about Ellsbury being on a short leash every Sux game. And I will keep score on a game by game basis as to who leads off for the Sux.
1-0, those in the know.
Ellsbury and Gardner are very similar. I’m not going to trash Ellsbury.
———————————————————–
I’m not trashing Ellsbury, I like both players very much. This is more in support of Gardner who I feel has been constantly put down for very little reason by Yankee fans.
Josh Johnson – 5 perfect innings.
*no-hit
Then jerkface I’m stunned that you appear so uninformed about the way Ellsbury plays the game. BD already told you what it was about.
I agree with Pat M. You are so stat driven that it appears that you miss the heart of what is really going on.
I forgot I have Fausto Carmona too. Not my lucky day.
SAS
My fantasy day wasnt too bad so far, I also lost points because a relief pitcher I have for the Rockies gave up a run in a tie game and took the loss. Bummer. That Youkilis got me 7 points though so I guess he isnt all good for nothing. lol
I’m uninformed? You don’t even know that Ellsbury hardly gets on base alot leading off. I understand the allure of the ‘fire-starter’ or whatever. Oh man he is fast, if he gets on the other team is going to go crazy! Except in ellsbury’s case it doesn’t result in more runs than usual.
So what good is it? If they had MORE base runners, they would score more runs.
prob won’t matter if Buck hit a GS or a solo with Josh Johnson dealing tonight.
Face are you trying to sell me the notion that Brett Gardner is a better ballplayer than Ellsbury ??? I you do think so I believe that you’re delusional……
Ellsbury is not better than Brett Gardner
trisha,
Great way to end an argument with an insult. You said Francona tapped him to be the leadoff guy. Didn’t he also tap him to move down the order where he was a better hitter. Thenumbers show it.
You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts
If Francona could pick anyone to leadoff, his first choice would be Crawford.
Of course, it’s not as simple as that.
Terry Francona, not me, is the one who said Ells is on a short leash….
This is really a mind numbingly dumb conversation.
I actually hope the Sox bat crawford and ellsbury in their top 3 all year. Because unless Ellsbury hits .330 he isn’t going to get on base that much, and crawford is going to see alot of LOOGYs.
mets radio crew is so far superior to ours its embarrasing.
tv, too.
But since going to his new swing approach last Aug. 12, Granderson is now hitting .298 against lefties (17-for-57) with a .385 on-base percentage and a .561 slugging percentage.
“Oh man he is fast”
————–
Buchholz is supposedly faster than Ellsbury to 1st.
I know it sounds ridiculous, but Gammons said he witnessed it and it was a rumor among Sox employees.
I’m sure it’s just part of the “Buchholz is a world-class athlete” BS.
Face are you trying to sell me the notion that Brett Gardner is a better ballplayer than Ellsbury ??? I you do think so I believe that you’re delusional……
–
Who gets on base more?
Who plays better defense?
Conversations Trisha is involved in: where logic goes to die
Ichiro is by far the premier leadoff hitter in baseball …… bar none. This year will be no different. His outfield play speaks for itself. Unlike Ellsbury, no bellyflop catches needed except when called for.
They were going to pinch run Buchholz at one point, but he ended up getting hurt so that put the kibbosh on that.
oh yeah that’s right Betsy.
i’m sure Buchholz is fast for a pitcher, but it’s obviously a bad idea.
Gardner takes more bases, gets on base more, plays better defense, has less power and isn’t as good a bunter. I think uninjured, Gardner is a better player than an uninjured Ellsbury.
If Francona had his way, Crawford would be leading off and playing center field.
here comes the met’s bullpen, aka 6 guys they found playing stickball over by the unisphere…
Jerkface April 1st, 2011 at 8:38 pm
I guarantee you jerkface that you don’t watch as many Sux games as I do, or BD does.
–
You don’t know a lick about me, for all we know we BOTH watch a bunch of sox games. Which is fine, how many games we both watch doesn’t matter. I watch nearly EVERY sox game each year, because I participate in more baseball discussion than goes on here at LOHUD and I like to smack talk the red sox fans. I have MLB.TV premium, Extra innings, and the local rays broadcast. I watch 300+ games a year.
But please, tell me how many more sox games you watch than me.
——————————————————
wow, that’s 300 games in 6 months, approximately 1.66666 per day, or about 4.998 hours per day spent watching games. Throw in another couple of hours posting on blogs about those games, it doesn’t leave much time for anything else, does it?
I must be an anomaly on this blog, I watch some (not all) Yankees games and enjoy it immensely without being paranoid about the Sox, the umpires, or anyone else.
To each his own, I guess…
Rays struggling and Toronto killing the Twins. 8 runs on a bunch of bombs.
Anyone else liking the Rays getting two-hit into the 8th now?
(Also, if we do end up in the wild card race instead of the Division race we may have preferred Red Sox to won today, no? …. eh, I don’t care, I just like seeing them lose)
BD, I thought it was a terrible idea at the time. He may be a great athlete, but I never understood why that was a big deal. He can pitch, that’s what counts – not how fast he’s timed from the mound to 1B.
Jays are going to be very good this year, but I thought they’d be good last year as well.
mets should just forfeit all thier games vs. the marlins. these guys just LIVE to beat on them
Marlins try to bail the Mets out with bad baserunning, but Mets will have none of it.
Josh Johnson is pitching a gem…..
wow, that’s 300 games in 6 months, approximately 1.66666 per day, or about 4.998 hours per day spent watching games. Throw in another couple of hours posting on blogs about those games, it doesn’t leave much time for anything else, does it?
–
Technology is grand. I can watch day games while I work, listen to games in my car, watch games on my phone, watch games when I come home. Baseball season 7-11 is baseball time.
i think the jays and os will both suck this year.
Agree with Pat M. Gardner needs to prove he can perform on par with a healthy Ellsbury.
TBH, all Gardner has on his resume is a great 1st half in 2010. Ellsbury has had 2 seasons as a premier leadoff hitter (08 and 09).
When he is 100%, he has more power than Brett, more steals and MUCH better instincts on the bases (how many times does Gardner just stand at 1st when he needs to steal?), higher average, more gap power, and more consistency.
I like Brett, I think he’s going to break out this year. But he is not on Ellsbury’s level yet. Not far behind, but not there yet.
agreed Betsy.
I was just throwing it out there amidst all the “Ellsbury is as fast as lightning” talk.
The legend of Clay “Road Runner” Buchholz.
Hopefully he falls apart as a pitcher so much so that they won’t mind using him as a pinch runner.
“Ellsbury in the lead off spot will be short lived like it has been every other time Tito has put him there”
You will see this quote every time the Sux play. Along with their lineup for the day.
Can’t wait to see LGY squirm.
Ellsbury has batted leadoff in 259 of his 319 career starts, including 15 of his 18 starts during the injury-shortened 2010 campaign.
Wow, real short leash!!!
Now I’d just love to see a link to the article where Tito said Ellsbury is on a short leash – not of course that I don’t believe it.
I don’t.
Just a point of interest; in a game with a pitcher like Verlander. In his outs Gardner saw 9 pitches or his average vs his bunts. I submit that the two outs were more valuable than the bunts because the pitch count with a pitcher of Verlanders ability takes him out of the game earlier. I’m a bunt proponent but with Gardner’s ability to work the pitcher it swings to Gardner not bunting.
BD, not counting on that, but it would be nice, lol.
I’ve never timed lightning personally – it always seemed dangerous, lol
If I may…..Ellsbury is a better player than Gardner & I don’t think it’s that close….
It was said during the game today Trisha.
Please try to pay attention to the game when it is on.
Nice play by Ramirez.
Johnson keeps mowing them down… A gem.
Stanton out of the Marlins game with possible hamstring injury.
It is sad so many Yankee fans have bought into the Red Sox hype beast of Ells.
Watch the games people!
“# Asd April 1st, 2011 at 8:51 pm
Anyone else liking the Rays getting two-hit into the 8th now?
(Also, if we do end up in the wild card race instead of the Division race we may have preferred Red Sox to won today, no? …. eh, I don’t care, I just like seeing them lose)
”
way too early for that
GB – If you’re out there – am I right that the answer to the question of the moment is Bob Feller?
“You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts”
Same with you Triple.
Ellsbury has led off in 81% of the games in which he’s played. Chew on that one a bit. I wouldn’t call that a case of someone on a short leash or someone Tito feels shouldn’t be leading off.
But hey what do I know. Maybe 81 is a low percentage.
“# GreenBeret7 April 1st, 2011 at 8:58 pm
Stanton out of the Marlins game with possible hamstring injury.
”
that’s a shame, he was hurt in spring training also
Face, you are delusional……Brett Gardner at this point in his career is not on par with Ellsbury, offensively nor defensively…..You say you watch all this baseball but do you really understand what you’re watching ???? You never ever comment on the nuances or the strategies of the game for the most part….You’re like the nerdy kid that nobody would pick on their teams…..
I know it must burn some of you that a stats geek actually enjoys watching baseball as much or more than you.
“Watch the games people”
We do. That’s where our information is coming from, not from any “hype.”
If I believed hype I would have Lester as Cy Young winner and the Sux winning the world series.
Brett Gardner at this point in his career is not on par with Ellsbury, offensively nor defensively
–
Brrrrrrr wrong. Watch ellsbury run a route in the outfield and get back to me.
Ellsbury is not even close to Gardner’s level defensively.
Joe from Long Island April 1st, 2011 at 8:59 pm
GB – If you’re out there – am I right that the answer to the question of the moment is Bob Feller?
———————————————————————————————————————-
Doc, what was the question? I’m assuming it’s the only opening day no hitter. If so, Bob Feller is it.
Woah, Ellsbury had eight and nine HRs in 08 and 09. Gardner had five until he started hitting one handed in the second half last year. With Gardner’s new swing he might outhomer Ellsbury this year.
Internet – Information overload. It cuts down the fun of arguing baseball and shortens the brew consumption. Bummer
I wanna know what alternate universe you live in, Pat M.
trisha,
The facts I am referring to is Ellsbury having worse numbers hitting out of the lead off spot. I said nothing about him having a short leash
“I know it must burn some of you that a stats geek actually enjoys watching baseball as much or more than you.”
Hardly. But I don’t trust the judgment of a stats geek who watches baseball as much as I do someone who doesn’t live by stats but who observes the game. I don’t believe you can serve the god of stats the way you do and have a purely objective perspective when you watch the games, totally uncolored by stats.
Jerkface April 1st, 2011 at 9:01 pm
I know it must burn some of you that a stats geek actually enjoys watching baseball as much or more than you.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Do you have the stats to prove that?
“The facts I am referring to is Ellsbury having worse numbers hitting out of the lead off spot. I said nothing about him having a short leash”
Worse numbers than who?
Trisha
Instead of polluting the blog with your childish bs all season, let’s make one of your chocolate bets on this leadoff thing and let that decide it.
Do you have the stats to prove that?
–
Let me count up the number of posts in here.
“Do you have the stats to prove that?”
Very funny!
“Instead of polluting the blog with your childish bs all season, let’s make one of your chocolate bets on this leadoff thing and let that decide it”
Actually I would have been polluting the blog with your childish bs. So what is the bet then?
trisha,
He hits better when he is not in the lead off spot
Only on the Mets do rule 5 picks really have a legit shot to stick. That Emaus kid just made a nice play.
I don’t know why but I hope the Mets get a hit this inning.
I have no doubt that Gardner is the better defender over Ellsbury.
I believe a healthy Gardner will have a better 2011 season than a healthy Ellsbury.
the Lohud blog, where those who never played the game at even a sandlot level are convinced they know more than those who played it competitively and feel they can criticize the best in the game over nothing…
# LGY April 1st, 2011 at 9:02 pm
Ellsbury is not even close to Gardner’s level defensively.
—————————————————
Ellsbury isn’t far off from Gardner on D.. On Offense the only stats that Gardner will be better is OBP and Walks
where those who never played the game at even a sandlot level
–
Hilarious. “Someone disagrees with me?! He probably doesn’t even know what a baseball is!”
GB – I don’t know if you can get SNY (Mets network), if not, then tune into MLB network. I’m sure they’re covering it.
And, Willie Harris gets a leadoff double in the 7th to break up the no-hitter. A big hand for Josh Johnson.
True Jerkface fact: I actually own a pitching machine.
Jerkface April 1st, 2011 at 9:05 pm
Do you have the stats to prove that?
–
Let me count up the number of posts in here.
———————————————————————————————————————-
That doesn’t mean you enjoy baseball more. It only means that you continue to prove that you’re the biggest a-hole on the board.
Trisha
Barring injury, Ellsbury will be moved out the leadoff spot this season and not put back.
On Offense the only stats that Gardner will be better is OBP and Walks
–
And runs.
Ellsbury is the sensation from the Navajo Nation.
We need the combattants to agree on a good over/under number on the # of games that Ellsbury leads off for the Redsocks this season.
And then wager.
That doesn’t mean you enjoy baseball more. It only means that you continue to prove that you’re the biggest a-hole on the board.
–
Nah that probably goes to you, you are much more of a curmudgeon who is quick to insult and dismiss things he doesn’t understand. I don’t have to enjoy baseball more, though I imagine I do enjoy it more than some people here, its why I said AS MUCH or more.
I guarantee I enjoy baseball as much as you do.
I’d like to at least think that Gardner could outproduce Ellsbury this year.
I wouldn’t bet on Gardner playing better than Jacoby, but would it surprise most of us if Gardner has a breakout year?
I’ve had my share of ‘heated debates’ on here so I’ll bow out of it before I get involved further
I think both players add a similar dynamic to their teams and it’s nice that Gardner has already proven the critics wrong and is a worthy starter on perhaps the best offense in baseball.
Gardner’s only better than Ellsbury at not making outs and catching the ball.
Ellsbury stole home once on ESPN. He’s better.
OBP is the most important stat for Gardner and Ells.
Face…..Good, do you know how to use the ” Hitting Machine ” ?????
Joe, I had the Florida feed on. Missed the question. At least the hit was clean.
# Jerkface April 1st, 2011 at 9:09 pm
On Offense the only stats that Gardner will be better is OBP and Walks
–
And runs.
—————————————
even
good baserunning instincts shown there by beltran. that guy can play some ball.
rumors of his demise have also been greatly exaggerated.
even
–
Gardner scores more runs per PA than Ellsbury. He takes more bases and scores more if he gets on. Look at their runs scored. Ellsbury scored 98 runs once and it took 40 more PA than Gardner.
Gardner already broke out last year, and it was better than any season Ellsbury has had.
Gardner better than Ellsbury? Surely you are kidding.
“He hits better when he is not in the lead off spot”
But do you realize that what we’re talking about here is who is the best player on the Sux to lead off for them, not who hits better when he’s not in leadoff. Two very different animals.
While he may hit better not in leadoff, and seeing that 81% of his games have been at leadoff, I would certainly have to question the strength of the other stats no matter what they say, I am suggesting to you that his entire skill set is better suited for lead off, when compared with the skill sets of other Sux players. You don’t want your power hitters at the top of the lineup. That’s how Torre effectively ruined Alfonso Soriano.
*******************
I want to see the article where Tito said Ellsbury is on a short leash LGY. You said he said it and I want to see it. Again 81% isn’t too short of a leash, but I’d like to read the entire context of the article you’re talking about. Link please.
Face…..Good, do you know how to use the ” Hitting Machine ” ?????
–
I’m still in my prime, Pat M, unlike you I don’t need help pounding it on and off the field
Ellsbury will have more …hits…HR’s… RBI’s… SB’s… BA & SLUG %
Yeah, GB, a no-doubter.
Now, Johnson needs to concentrate to keep the damage down, and win the game. I’m sure it was deflating for him to lose the no-no, now he needs to re-group and get the W. If he gets out of the inning with only the two runs scored, he’ll hang on and win it.
“Gardner already broke out last year”
———–
he did… but I guess I’m saying it sure would be cool if he continued to improve. He made adjustments last season that could pay off even more this year.
combine that with his new role as a leadoff hitter against righties and I’d hope he’d do even better in ’11.
Gardner better than Ellsbury? Surely you are kidding.
–
Defensively definitely not. Offensively it can go either way depending on your tastes. I think Gardner’s plate discipline, his ability to get on base, and ability to take extra bases trumps Ellsbury minor bump in power.
Its not like Gardner hits a bunch of weak dribblers, he has back to back 18% line drive seasons.
my yankee predictions
http://www.abrahamesparza.com/.....-2011.html
# LGY April 1st, 2011 at 9:15 pm
Gardner already broke out last year, and it was better than any season Ellsbury has had.
————————————————————————-
not true….look at Gardners 2010 & Ellsbury’s 2009
“O’s Tillman taking Matusz’s start. Matusz scratched with “acute back pain”.”
Trisha
I already told you it was said during the game.
Bobby V reported on a conversation he had with Tito. Tito told him that he did not plan to bat Ells leadoff heading into ST. His strong ST changed his mind and he decided to give him the job. However, he is keeping him on a short leash.
Joe from Long Island April 1st, 2011 at 9:16 pm
Yeah, GB, a no-doubter.
Now, Johnson needs to concentrate to keep the damage down, and win the game. I’m sure it was deflating for him to lose the no-no, now he needs to re-group and get the W. If he gets out of the inning with only the two runs scored, he’ll hang on and win it.
———————————————————————————————————————
Ramirez’ defense will kill that team more often than not. He needs to move to a corner outfield spot.
LGY April 1st, 2011 at 9:15 pm
Gardner already broke out last year, and it was better than any season Ellsbury has had.
****************
Really? Not even close.
Garder 2010 – .247/.383/.379 – 5 home runs – 47 RBI’s – 47 SB’s – 132 Hits
Ellsbury 2009 – .301/.355/.415 – 8 home runs – 60 RBI’s – 70 SB’s – 188 Hits
Pat M, let’s face it, we’re beaten, there is nothing that can be done to beat a stats geek whose eyes haven’t gone yet.
Of course, I’d be willing to bet I could give him 3 a side on the links and clean his clock…
Joeman
I am. 2010 Gardner > 2009 Ellsbury
Pat M,
I love you (who doesn’t?), but I think the general consensus is that Gardner is a better defender than Ellsbury.
# West Coast Yankee Fan April 1st, 2011 at 9:20 pm
LGY April 1st, 2011 at 9:15 pm
Gardner already broke out last year, and it was better than any season Ellsbury has had.
****************
Really? Not even close.
Garder 2010 – .247/.383/.379 – 5 home runs – 47 RBI’s – 47 SB’s – 132 Hits
Ellsbury 2009 – .301/.355/.415 – 8 home runs – 60 RBI’s – 70 SB’s – 188 Hits
————————————————–
nice job ..WCYF
Gardners 2010 & Ellsbury’s 2009
–
Gardner scored 4 more runs in 130 less PA.
Gardner and Ellsbury are different and similar players. Ellsbury is a better hitter at this point….has a better swing, more power etc. Gardner has better plate discipline, gets on base more and is a better defender. Both are good young players but go about their contributions in different ways.
Gardners team is better than Ellsburys though
“Trisha
Barring injury, Ellsbury will be moved out the leadoff spot this season and not put back”
That’s pretty vague. How many games into the season?
What % of games are you talking? If he’s moved out of leadoff after 120 games, you think I will take that as proving your point?
This is what you said: “Ellsbury in the lead off spot will be short lived like it has been every other time Tito has put him there.”
So pick a number that represents “short lived”. (81% doesn’t seem like a track record of moving him out.)
Plus Gardner’s far superior defense WC.
Gardner OPS+ 106
Ells OPS+ 97
Heyman tweets a ton. Wow.
magic # time.
trisha,
Pedroia is a far better person to lead off then Ellsbury. He takes more pitches and has a higher OBP and OPS.
these people who come here just to get hits on thier sorry little blogs really burn my #%.
like you think maybe you could engage someone in a conversation on this blog first if you really have anything to say?
ynm comes in and trolls a yankees blog just to pimp his own yankees blog. what a sorry exsitence.
igotid88, like anyone here could give a crap…
Hey, someone badmouthing sandlot baseball? I protest.
I once fouled off two pitches, almost hits, against “Eddie Feigner of The King and his Court”.
Just so I have a sound understanding on this topic……Face are you on the record that your preference is that you would rather have Brett Gardner on your club than Jacoby Ellsbury ????
Yankees Win
Twins, Rays, BoSux all LOSE.
Great start to the season.
Trisha
Set an over under
2009 Ellsbury – .770 OBP
2010 Gardner – .762 OBP
Highest number of steals – 47 for Gardner, 70 for Ellsbury
Most doubles – 22 for Gardner, 27 for Ellsbury
Most strikeouts – 101 for Gardner, 80 for Ellsbury
HRs – 5 for Gardner, 9 for Ellsbury
Defense cannot be quantified, it is subjective.
Gardner has not put together a season like 2009 Ellsbury did. Gardner will probably end up being the better player, but has not proven it yet.
Of course, I’d be willing to bet I could give him 3 a side on the links and clean his clock…
–
Ah Golf is the true arbiter of who knows baseball?
Gardner’s 2010 was significantly better than Ellsbury’s 2009.
when I was a kid, we used to argue all day in the schoolyard about who was better-Willie, Mickey, or the Duke.
How could we have done that with any accuracy without all the sabermetrics that would tell us what we couldn’t see? I am so embarrassed that I never used those stats to make my point about the Mick…
Face are you on the record that your preference is that you would rather have Brett Gardner on your club than Jacoby Ellsbury
–
YES. Why wouldn’t I want the guy who gets on base more, is just as fast, and plays better defense? And is much more of a gamer than Ellsbury (re: playing injured). How about that? Everyone in Boston is questioning Ellsbury commitment last year.
Jerkface,
lol
Gardners team is better than Ellsburys though
——————————————————
For Sure…….it’s a joy watching the RS lose
“And is much more of a gamer than Ellsbury (re: playing injured).”
—————-
but does he take infield grounders on a stool????
Let’s see ..2 errors in over 800 chances as opposed to 3 errors in 580 chances……Loyalty is admirable however it can be blind
Can Ellsbury put together a season like 2009 Ellsbury did?
He actually had a good game today. 2-for-4. But alas, it was to no avail. The Sox still lost.
How could we have done that with any accuracy without all the sabermetrics that would tell us what we couldn’t see?
–
MG, its not even sabermetrics. You might watch every game but you’re not going to remember everything you saw and certainly not in the wider context of player X vs the rest of the league. That is where stats can help. I am on record as saying stats and scouts go hand in hand. You can use scouts to see a player and the stats to get a better look, or find an interesting player in a pile of stats and go scout him.
Maybe if you learned to read, you could have used the back of a baseball card to better argue for Mick.
Ellsbury is bad defensively.
Watch the games.
Ellsbury can’t read a flyball to save his life
Let’s see ..2 errors in over 800 chances as opposed to 3 errors in 580 chances……Loyalty is admirable however it can be blind
–
Pat M, please do not throw away all your good will as old timey baseball man by trying to use errors for an outfield to argue defense.
Gritty gutty Jacoby Ellsbury just doesn’t have the same ring to it.
Ellsbury got 700 PA in 2009, Gardner got 560 in 2010.
Keep that in mind when you throw out counting stats.
Ys Guy April 1st, 2011 at 9:22 pm
these people who come here just to get hits on thier sorry little blogs really burn my #%.
like you think maybe you could engage someone in a conversation on this blog first if you really have anything to say?
ynm comes in and trolls a yankees blog just to pimp his own yankees blog. what a sorry exsitence.
igotid88, like anyone here could give a crap…
—————————-
i do.
# LGY April 1st, 2011 at 9:28 pm
Ellsbury is bad defensively.
Watch the games.
————————————
I watch almost everyone of them being a Sox fan
Ellsbury has a .998 fielding percentage for his career.
Gardner has a .995 fielding percentage for his career.
Gardner is elite defensively.
2 hours and 8 minutes for the Os-Rays, talk about a quick game
Gardner has 20 assists to Ellsbury’s 8. Oh no, Gardner takes the lead back!
The Blue Jays can hit….they are gonna be dangerous again this year.
1 error and .003 difference in fielding percentage?
In all fairness to the debate, Gardner has more assists and gets to more balls. But the defensive gap is not large at all. You cannot make the argument that a .998 fielding percentage is poor.
Don’t confuse inteligence, with maturity.
A person can be really smart and very stupid (or immature) at the same time.
As adults we should just recognize when it’s just immaturity and feel sorry for the little jerks.
Gardner is better.
Face, my BS in Chemistry, MBA in Finance, and 40 years of business experience pretty much negate anything you could possibly say about a lack of literacy.
I actually spent most of my career in a test and measurement environment and am a strong believer in the use of statistics to find trends and project performance.
What I do agree with, though, is the arbitrary use of statistics they way it is used on this blog to prove whatever point is trying to be made. We’ll disagree on that forever. I’ll stop beating you up on this, this is obviously way more important to you than it is to me.
Knew you were a Sox fan joeman.
You cannot make the argument that a .998 fielding percentage is poor.
–
I can make the argument that for an outfielder it doesn’t matter.
No LGY. I’m not playing this game with you. If you can’t come up with something to back your ridiculous statement I will do just what I said I was going to do. Put your asinine quote up every game and then post the lineup.
*******************
The most unfair thing of all last season was people questioning Ellsbury’s commitment. And that started with that ugly beast Pukeylisp shooting off his mouth. The kid had broken ribs. Multiple broken ribs. Do you know how long it takes broken ribs to heal? Do you realize that he came back ahead of schedule just to shut everyone up, and played and got injured the first game back when he reinjured his ribs and they discovered that hadn’t healed fully in the first place?
So, all the safety stuff was to jinx the Yankees?
# LGY April 1st, 2011 at 9:32 pm
Knew you were a Sox fan joeman.
—————————————————-
just a joke
“Ellsbury has a .998 fielding percentage for his career.
Gardner has a .995 fielding percentage for his career.”
—————-
As much as I want to stay out of this, the “book” on Ellsbury is definitely that he takes bad routes to the ball. His fielding % is one measure but alone it’s not nearly enough to get a full picture of his defense.
I think this argument is becoming moot. All the stats are out, people have made their decisions.
I hope we can all root for Gardner to be the far better player this season and leave it at that.
agree should have been ‘disagree’…
I’ll stop beating you up on this, this is obviously way more important to you than it is to me.
–
I don’t believe this for a second, but ok. It matters enough for you to make a bunch of snide comments and want to challenge me to golf or whatever.
When did this become an Ellsbury blog?
=======================================
Getting back to our Yankees, how will AJ do in his 1st start of the season?
erkface April 1st, 2011 at 9:29 pm
Let’s see ..2 errors in over 800 chances as opposed to 3 errors in 580 chances……Loyalty is admirable however it can be blind
–
Pat M, please do not throw away all your good will as old timey baseball man by trying to use errors for an outfield to argue defense.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Why not/ You did today when Napoli and Mathis was discussed.
No LGY. I’m not playing this game with you. If you can’t come up with something to back your ridiculous statement I will do just what I said I was going to do. Put your asinine quote up every game and then post the lineup.
——
It is funny you think that would actually bother me.
Have fun!
What the eff does fielding percentage have to do with range, especially in the outfield?
Manny Ramirez could have a 1.000 fielding percentage for the season but nobody in their right mind will claim he’s a strong outfielder.
“Why not/ You did today when Napoli and Mathis was discussed.”
—————-
ouch!
next topic?
“It was said during the game today Trisha.
Please try to pay attention to the game when it is on.”
I had the NESN feed. It was NOT said during that game.
I watch almost everyone of them being a Sox fan
===============
just a joke
=================
thought there was something weird about you….nevermind.
“Please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let’s not bicker and argue over who killed who…”
You did today when Napoli and Mathis was discussed.
–
Please do not throw away all your good will on this blog as 100 year old rotofeed by comparing catcher errors and outfielder errors and believing they are the same thing. Outfielders get errors on throws, but basically have to let the ball clunk off their glove to get an error on a catch. Ellsbury can flat out miss a catch he should make and not be credited with an error. Catcher errors come from one of their primary jobs, which is to throw out runners.
I do enjoy you trying to TURN THE TABLES, though.
RMS April 1st, 2011 at 9:34 pm
When did this become an Ellsbury blog?
=======================================
Getting back to our Yankees, how will AJ do in his 1st start of the season?
—————————————————
He’ll either give up 6 runs or pitch a shutout
Manny Ramirez could have a 1.000 fielding percentage for the season but nobody in their right mind will claim he’s a strong outfielder.
=========================
Does Manny own a glove?
gardneris getting better, but, he isn’t exactly the best at tracking fly balls. His skill is being able to outrun his mistakes, much like Bernie williams and Mickey Mantle.
trisha,
I noticed earlier that you had the NESN feed. Do you not have ESPN? Bobby V was wading into dangerous waters defending the Yankees.
Does Manny own a glove?
–
He once turned a double play while hi-fiving a fan. Gold glover.
“how will AJ do in his 1st start of the season?”
————
it really is the $6M question.
AJ has the most to prove on this team. It starts tomorrow.
His skill is being able to outrun his mistakes
–
Ellsbury tries to outrun his mistakes but ends up on the wrong end of the field.
He once turned a double play while hi-fiving a fan. Gold glover.
=================
Now that’s entertainment.
“Ellsbury in the lead off spot will be short lived like it has been every other time Tito has put him there.”
Night all!
Score is 1-0 Trisha.
To be updated each time the Sux play.
mel, I made a choice. As much as I detest Don Orsillo, I hate the ESPN broadcasters even more.
Eric Van once said he wouldn’t trade Ellsbury straight up for Adrian Gonzalez.
The bickering here is incredible.
You’d think we lost a game.
“He once turned a double play while hi-fiving a fan.”
—————
Manny also owned 3 cell phones (2 of which were for the girls he was cheating on his wife with)
and when he asked a friend of mine if he wanted to “have” one of his girls my friend replied “manny, I’m engaged” to which manny replied
“amigo, i’m married!”
The bickering here is incredible.
You’d think we lost a game.
–
Thats what the yankees get for not playing. They should never not play.
“It is funny you think that would actually bother me.
Have fun!”
I will. Because there’s no way you can pull a bait and switch on this one, the way you did when Montero didn’t go north despite your nonstop BS about Montero being the choice!
Buenas noches, amigos and amigas!
I didn’t say anything about Ellsbury being a better fielder. When Gardner loses that extra step he depends on, he’ll be no better than Damon and Williams in center. He’ll catch what he gets to, when/if he gets to them. He’s definately better suited in left field.
“Does Manny own a glove?”
///
are you kidding??? manny is known around the world for his ‘D’ :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....&NR=1
priceless in any language…
Thanks people, that was entertaining. Good stuff both sides. A few insults, some snark.
Good stuff around . Everyone can walk away, muttering “Told him, eh.”
You need two to argue or in this case “One and fourty two”
m
Speaking of Bobby V – I listened to about 6 seconds total of the Sox/Rangers game. The first thing I heard him say (which I can’t remember) made me think, “man, he’s living dangerously” after a criticism of the Sox; the second thing I heard was him being really vocal about his opinion of Josh Hamilton moving out of centerfield. No shrinking violet, that Bobby V.
Hahahahahahahaha. Someone help me. Hahahahahahahahaha. LGY with the big talk gets completely owned by facts that aren’t even debatable. Hahahahahahahaha. Man that was high quality humor.
I didn’t say anything about Ellsbury being a better fielder.
–
You didn’t have to, I won’t miss a chance to diss a red sox player that is the evil twin equivalent of the yankee being discussed!
Gardner 2010: 5.4 WAR
Ellsbury 2009 : 2.7 WAR
not a perfect stat….but both players are good and contribute to their teams, just in different ways. Gardner was one of the best defensive outfielders in baseball last year. If he can play that level of defense again and get on base 38 % of the time again then he’s going to be of great value to the Yankees….he doesn’t necessarily have to be a better player than Ellsbury individually to contribute as much or more to his team winning games…..that’s all that matters.
Face you are the poster boy for Vince Scully’s Lampost analogy when speaking about stats…..As for tracking fly balls and booting balls in the of, you must be kidding….Did Gardner get charged with an E yesterday by turning a basehit into a double due to booting it ??? No but you jumped all over Jeter for the liner that he didn’t get charged an E for….Someday when you grow up you’ll realize you can’t have it both ways……I admire Brett Gardner’s over achievements in the game, however he’s not the ballplayer that Ellsbury is and it’s that simple……..
It should be noted that Ellsbury’s highest WAR season was in 2008 with a WAR of 3.9. Ellsbury’s value takes a significant hit with the poor defense he brings to the table. Give me Gardner any day.
Praying for the rapture
Cause its stranger getting stranger
And everythings contagious its the modern middle ages
Carlo
Please share what facts those are.
Lets not kid ourselves. AJ started off 6-2 until MAY ( old mechanics) and all.. Now we have to see how he pitches with mechanical adjustments..
If Aj pitches a shut out and gets bombed his next start we will be all over. We won’t be able to fully evaluate him until after the season.
.As for tracking fly balls and booting balls in the of, you must be kidding….Did Gardner get charged with an E yesterday by turning a basehit into a double due to booting it
–
The rest of baseball agrees with me, so I am confident with my assertion that Gardner is a better outfielder than Ellsbury. People all over baseball are praising Gardner’s fielding, its a shame that you can’t see whats right infront of you.
He didn’t make a good play on that ball, just like Jeter didn’t make a good play on his ball. Gardner gets crapped on enough by people here I don’t feel the need to add to it. By the end of the season though, he will make more plays in the outfield than almost every other outfielder in baseball.
Borgata 4/18…4/19 …kind of a little excited but I hate the drive home
Seriously, watch Ellsbury zig zag his way around the outfield, ESPN managed to point out his bad route taking in the opening game today.
new post arrow pointing that way
Theo Epstein signed a 37 year old CF to a two year contract last year just so he could put Ellsbury’s horrible route taking into left field. Now Mike Cameron has been one of the best CF’s in baseball through his career but taking the risk of signing him to a two year contract at an advanced age just shows how much of a liability Ellsbury’s defense is. The plan didnt exactly work out for the Red Sox last year either.
WCYF provided the stats already. No need to rehash. Silly discussion because the original point was silly.
Carlo
WAR, OPS+, defense. Try again.
LGY – like I said, no need to try. I thought ur comment was absurd. WCYF confirmed it. Many disagree. Pull whatever other stats you want, won’t change anything.
WCYF also managed to take 30 points of off his true avg in 2010. That is also besides the point because 5.4 WAR(Gardner) in 2010>3.9 WAR in 2008(Navajo).
Livestrong77nyy April 1st, 2011 at 10:17 pm
WCYF also managed to take 30 points of off his true avg in 2010. That is also besides the point because 5.4 WAR(Gardner) in 2010>3.9 WAR in 2008(Navajo).
***************
Livestrong you are right, that was a typo, my apologies, and thanks for pointing it out. He hit .277
Gardner 2010 – .277/.383/.379 – 5 home runs – 47 RBI’s – 47 SB’s – 132 Hits
Ellsbury 2009 – .301/.355/.415 – 8 home runs – 60 RBI’s – 70 SB’s – 188 Hits