The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Postgame notes: What’s next for Hughes?

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes on Apr 08, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post


Just like everyone else, Phil Hughes is searching for answers. He’s well aware of the results, and he’s well aware that his fastball doesn’t have the life he’s come to expect. That said, Hughes said he feels fine, perfectly healthy. Pitching coach Larry Rothschild said he doesn’t see any sort of mechanical issue, and if it were mechanical, he believes Hughes would see significant velocity peaks and valleys.

“I don’t necessarily think it’s tiredness,” Rothschild said. “The arm strength hasn’t been there all spring. There’s a history of it from the past, but you’d like to see it at some point pretty soon.”

Truth is, there might not be an answer. Rothschild said the Yankees tried to lighten Hughes’ workload this spring, but it had no impact. Hughes said it was hard to trust spring results, because he saw a velocity spike when he finally joined the big league rotation last year. Right now, it seems everyone’s best bet is that the velocity will come back as a matter of course.

“I don’t think this is something you’re going to see all year,” Rothschild said. “At least I would hope not. I don’t know if he’s lost it or just hasn’t built up all the way yet. Some guys are slower like that, and he’s clearly right now one of them.”

Joe Girardi said he wouldn’t rule out the idea of skipping a start in hopes that extra rest will make a difference, but right now there are no plans to do so.

“It’s possible he could get an extra day here, or there’s some different things we could do, but right now, no,” Giradi said. “I want to get him back out there, get him right, and get him going… If you want to last a long time, you have to figure out how to mentally grind through things, and how to get through situations, and I saw him do it a number of times last year. I saw this kid take big steps last year, and I’m not willing to say those steps are gone just because of two starts. There’s going to be starts where you struggle. You might have a bad couple starts, you might have a bad month. And you’ve got to find a way to fight through it.”

As usual in his small Fenway office, it was pretty much impossible to hear Girardi postgame, so here’s Rothschild speaking after tonight’s game.

Audio clip: Adobe Flash Player (version 9 or above) is required to play this audio clip. Download the latest version here. You also need to have JavaScript enabled in your browser.

• Bartolo Colon said he actually felt better as the game progressed. It’s hard to overstate just how good he was. “Bartolo was just really locating his fastball well, to both sides of the plate,” catcher Russell Martin said. “His first two, three innings, I think we threw one off-speed pitch. He’s just got a really nasty comeback two-seamer that he can throw in on lefties, and they really don’t know what to do with it. If they hit it, it’s going to be foul. When he locates it, it’s going to be tough to hit.”

• A shining example of how unreliable the win and loss stats are, especially given a one-game sample size: Colon took the loss this afternoon and John Lackey got the win. Their lines:

Colon: 4.1 IP, 2 H, 2 R, 1 ER, 1 BB, 5 K
Lackey: 5 IP, 7 H, 6 R, 6 ER, 2 BB, 2 K

• Phil Hughes isn’t the only Yankees pitcher struggling. Boone Logan is the only left-hander in the pen, and today he allowed a pivotal double and two-run single to David Ortiz and J.D. Drew. “It’s not fun going out there and not doing your job, giving up hits to lefties, walking lefties,” Logan said. “My job is to get them all out, and I’m not doing any of that right now.”

• Logan has pitched in three games. He’s been charged with a run in all of them — one was unearned — and he’s allowed five hits while getting just four outs. The problem starts with his slider. “I need to locate my four-seam also, but my slider is my pitch everything else comes off of,” Logan said. “… I just gotta quit aiming the ball and just let it go. Quit thinking about it.”

• Just to close the book on Yankees pitchers today: Dave Robertson looked pretty good in a scoreless eighth. He allowed one hit, a single. He threw 13 pitches, nine for strikes.

• Alex Rodriguez’s third home run of the season was his 50th career home run against the Red Sox. No active player has more home runs against Boston. Rodriguez has more career home runs against the Angels (67), Orioles (54) and Blue Jays (52).

• Speaking of Rodriguez, today’s home run gave him 1,836 career RBI, tying him with Ken Griffey Jr. — and move him past Rafael Palmeira — for 13th on baseball’s all-time RBI list.

• Speaking of success against Boston: Robinson Cano went 2-for-4 with two doubles, raising his career batting average at Fenway to .362, fifth highest all-time among visiting players. That’s also the highest career average for any player in a Yankees uniform at Fenway with a minimum of 200 at-bats. That’s according to Elias and passed along by the Red Sox.

• On the flip side: Hughes has an 8.47 career ERA at Fenway, his worst of any Major League park.

• Nick Swisher’s run-scoring groundout in the third inning gave him 500 RBI for his career. He’s driven in a run in five of the Yankees seven games this season.

• If it wasn’t Colon, the Yankees star of the day was certainly Brett Gardner, who had a double, a triple, two walks, an RBI, a stolen base and made some fine plays in the outfield.

• I didn’t get over there to talk to him — I was focused on the pitchers — but Mark Teixeira was one of a handful of position players who stuck around long after the game to talk to the media. Hard to blame guys for wanting to leave quickly today (as you’ll see in the last note) but Teixeira stuck around to talk after his fifth-inning error. I thought I’d mention that since accountability became an issue earlier this week.

• Looking for a little insult to injury? The water was messed up in the visiting clubhouse at Fenway, so the Yankees couldn’t shower after the game. They had to dress in their regular clothes, leave the park and — I hope — shower at the hotel.

Associated Press photos

Comments

comments

 

Advertisement

360 Responses to “Postgame notes: What’s next for Hughes?”

  1. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    Bottom of 4th inning, 4-2 Trenton

    Stansberry walks

    Solbeleski out

    Tolisano safe on infield single to shortstop, error on throw, run scores

    Diaz grounds to shortstop, scored single and throwing error, run scores
    Hechavarria doubles to right field, run scores

    Gose grounds out to pitcher.

    5-4 NH

    Pirela is a butcher at shortstop. 3 errors tonight 4 in 2 games.

  2. Fran the original April 8th, 2011 at 8:08 pm

    Just catching up from all day. Colon did a nice job in relief.

    Hopefully Rothschild will be able to get Phil straightened out. Seems like AJ is on his way, next hopefully Hughes.

    GB, thanks again for all of the updates.

  3. SJ44 April 8th, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    Fenway really is a pit. What an awful excuse for a ML ballpark.

  4. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    Auerbach used to torment visiting teams esp in the playoffs, I wouldn’t put it past the Fenway crowd to do the same.

  5. Echo . Romeo . Returns April 8th, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    ” Looking for a little insult to injury? The water was messed up in the visiting clubhouse at
    Fenway, so the Yankees couldn’t shower after the game. They had to dress in their regular clothes, leave the park and — I hope — shower at the hotel. ”

    There could always be payback when they come to Yankee Stadium .

    No ?

  6. Carl April 8th, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    Gb7 thanks for the updates

  7. blake April 8th, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    Bombing bucholtz tomorrow sure would make me feel better..

  8. LGY April 8th, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    The Yankees are discussing this issue like Hughes is just going to wake up one morning and he is just magically going to be back to normal.

  9. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    Top of 5th inningm 5-4 NH leads

    Johnson single to left. advances on WP

    Mesa grounds out to 2nd, Johnson to 3rd base

    Joseph doubles to left, run scores

    Maruszak strikeout looking

    Kruml strikeout swinging

    starting bottom of 5th inning, 5-5 tie

  10. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    I see Nova standing them on their heads tomorrow.
    Back to business as usual.
    CC on Sunday.

  11. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    The Yankees are discussing this issue like Hughes is just going to wake up one morning and he is just magically going to be back to normal.
    ==========================
    That’s what they do. They are just buying time. Talk is cheap.

  12. Fran the original April 8th, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    mick,

    sounds good to me.

  13. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    Mick – u mentioned it in a prior thread tonight and I am firmly of the opinion Pettitte returns this summer. If I had to be right now, we head into October with Phil Hughes in the bullpen again.

  14. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    Fran/Carl, ya’ll are most welcome.

    Charleston is tied at 3-3. Turley has allowed two homers

    Heathcott and Murphy have homered. Sanchez is 0-2 with a passed ball

  15. Yogi Mantle April 8th, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    I’m wondering if it has something to do with the way Hughes works out. Working out with weights can be detrimental to arm speed, even as it builds strength. When working out with weights many tend to go with heavier weights and it can inhibit the strengthening of the faster muscle fibers.

  16. Nick in SF April 8th, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    Hopefully the internal discussions are more intense and meaningful.

    You can’t take anything Girardi says seriously anyway. Except when you can. :oops:

  17. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    If I had to be right now, we head into October with Phil Hughes in the bullpen again.
    ====================
    Maybe it’s where he belongs.

  18. SJ44 April 8th, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    Same thing happened to Madison Baumgartner last year.

    I’ve seen it happen before with pitchers.

    It’s not as unusual as it sounds.

  19. Echo . Romeo . Returns April 8th, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    The key to happiness is to aim for the best but expect the worst .

    I expect C . B . to win tomorrow .

  20. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    * if I had to “bet” right now

  21. YankeesNmore April 8th, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    “What’s next for Hughes?”
    ———————————————-
    How about building climbing with Cashman and some worn out ropes???

  22. SJ44 April 8th, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    Andy isn’t coming back.

    Hasn’t picked up a baseball since he announced his retirement.

    Saw him last month and he’s very happy with his decision.

    He isn’t missing it.

  23. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    What’s next for him is that he’ll be starting, unfortunately.

    In response to CB’s post from the other thread:
    I agree……… I feel like there’s got to be something wrong with his arm; maybe he’s not feeling pain, but maybe it’s somehow weakened. Or, maybe he’s hurt and the pain is just being dulled for some reason. I don’t get why the Yankees aren’t taking more precautions with him. It’s not just about their team and the here and now, it’s about this kid’s future.

  24. Nick in SF April 8th, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    Then again, they might be less worried about Hughes and more worried about the massive, 70-mile island of Japanese tsunami desbris moving slowly across the Pacific towards our homeland. :shock:

  25. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    Just because someone feels fine doesn’t mean he is fine……………. the Yankees are not being very proactive here.

  26. tyanksfan36 April 8th, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    I just got my picture taken with Manny B. How cool.

  27. Pat M. April 8th, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    I guess no water is better than just ice cold shower water……SJ, The Sox and their elected officials had this big walk around Fenway a few days ago bragging about the completion of their 10 year renovations and the new scoreboards….On the home opener the visiting clubhouse has no water….Still a piss hole ballpark with 100 year old charm

  28. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 8:21 pm

    Trenton tied up at 5-5.

    Hall should have better numbers thaan 5 innings, 6 hits, 5 runs, 4 earned, 1 walk, 4 strikeouts. 3 of those runs don’t score without the 3 throwing errors.

  29. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 8:21 pm

    LGY, right – and it’s just something he’s going to work through. They are in complete denial…..Where is Cashman here? I’m not sure what I expect Rothschild to say or do, but I’m not thrilled with how he’s handling this.

  30. Fran the original April 8th, 2011 at 8:21 pm

    Meanwhile, what about Boone Logan. His job is to be the lefty specialist and he has give up runs to lefties in his appearances.

  31. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    Did I read that right? Is Joe implying that Phil hasn’t been grinding enough ? That this is just a matter of being “off” and him not being gritty enough to deal with it? Ugh.

  32. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    He has to fight his way through it, lol- really unbelievable.

  33. Fran the original April 8th, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    tyanks,

    How exciting. Waiting for those blog entries :)

    *****************

    Yogi Mantle,

    Saw that it was your birthday the other day. Happy belated birthday.

  34. Pat M. April 8th, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    Nick in SF……The only upside to The Lad’s struggles is this….No fat calories from In-N-Out double doubles….My trainer will be pleased

  35. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    Seriously, can this guy be banned already?

  36. blake April 8th, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    The Yanks have lost 3 games this season….1 the bullpen blew and the other 2 because Hughes was able to give them nothing in his starts. With the competitiveness of the division and with the number of road games in the 2nd half I don’t think its wise for the team or for Hughes to send him out there in his next turn unless he shows significant progress in his side session (I mean holding the gun on him and seeing some pop)

  37. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    SJ – a month ago was still pre season……things can change come august. For example, the rotation as it stands today….will change by then as well.

  38. Nick in SF April 8th, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    I meant debris, not desbris.

    The extra ‘s’ is for how sad Phil made me today and how sad I’ll be if tsunami debris reaches our coastal In-N-Out burgers.

    Maybe Phil was distracted?

  39. SJ44 April 8th, 2011 at 8:26 pm

    Betsy,

    You are misreading it.

    It’s baseball cliche talk. Don’t take it so literally.

    Just about every player who has ever struggles talks about grinding thru it.

    It’s just a sayimg and not a character indictment.

  40. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 8:26 pm

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-yo.....-no-remedy

    Yankees pitching coach Larry Rothschild thinks he knows what the problem is with Phil Hughes’ lack of velocity.

    “It is the arm strength,” Rothschild said. “Everything emenates from there.”

    Rothschild doesn’t know the answer, though, to fix it.

    “There is no remedy,” Rothschild said. “When strength comes back, it comes back. We have tried to lessen the work load in spring to try and get it. I think it is just going to come naturally.”

    Rothschild believes that Hughes’ fastball will comeback to the 92-94 range he really needs to be effective. On Friday he was mostly in the 89-90 range.

    “I don’t think this is something you are going to see all year,” Rothschild said. “At least, I would hope not. I don’t know if he has lost it or it hasn’t built it up all the way yet. Some guys are slower like that. He is clearly one of those guys.”

    Rothschild, like Girardi and Hughes say there is nothing wrong with Hughes physically, which leaves the question if the problem is mechanical.

    “If it were mechanical, I think you would see some of the velocities,” Rothschild said. “You just wouldn’t see them consistently.”

    Rothschild didn’t rule out skipping a start, but didn’t seem think that was the answer.

    “We will have to give it a day and see where we are,” Rothschild said. “I don’t necessarily think it is tiredness. The arm strength hasn’t been there all spring. There is a history of it from the past, but you would like to see at some point pretty soon.

    “It is fixable in the way it is going to be a natural occurrence and the arm strength comes back. I’ve seen guys go through it. It is a tough road until he gets back to that point.”

  41. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:26 pm

    Carlo

    Andy said he’s fine with it but what would one expect him to say?

  42. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    SJ, I did not say he was indicting Phil’s character. I’m saying that Joe thinks this is just as easy as Phil gutting it out – and it’s not.

  43. SJ44 April 8th, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    Carlo,

    He’s spending time with his family and they have planned several summer family trips.

    He’s not coming back.

  44. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    Betsy, Joe says a lot of things…

  45. tyanksfan36 April 8th, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    Fran

    I ended up staying out late this afternoon so I didn’t get a chance to type up last nights game but it will be up by morning.

  46. Crawdaddy April 8th, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    Betsy,

    You have no idea what the Yankees might be discussing among themselves in regard to Hughes.

  47. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    He’s spending time with his family and they have planned several summer family trips.

    He’s not coming back.
    ================
    Nice of him to spend time with his family.
    He might not come back for other reasons though, at least not this year.

  48. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    Blake – its not the first time the Yankees dealt with a situation where one pitcher was single handedly responsible for the majority of early season losses by being completely tapioca.

    In recent past, see Wang, CM and Vazquez, Javier.

    Wang literally lost 5 or 6 games on his own in the first month and a half a few years ago.

  49. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    Interesting how efficient the Knicks are w/out Stoudemire in the lineup.
    Chauncey and Melo wheelin and dealin, swishin and dishin…

  50. randy l. April 8th, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    “I don’t have a good feeling about this.

    It just doesn’t add up at all.”

    cb

    i don’t have a good feeling about this either.

    pure maximum velocity should be the easiest thing to train.

    if they’re trying and he can’t hit numbers he was hitting last year, there is probably something physically wrong.

    it is however very weird that the yankees don’t train velocity in spring training and just let it happen.

  51. Fran the original April 8th, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    I ended up staying out late this afternoon so I didn’t get a chance to type up last nights game but it will be up by morning.
    *************
    tyanks,

    I’ll hold you to that ;)

  52. SJ44 April 8th, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    Betsy,

    Don’t take what they say publicly so literally.

    They know there is a problem. The issue is finding a solution and they aren’t going to share much publicly.

    He’s not hurt. If he was, it would be easy to diagnose the problem. That’s not the case here.

    The same thing happened to Madison Baumgartner last year. He eventually got it back.

    Stuff like this happens with pitchers. It’s not like Larry Rothchild or Girardi have never seen it before.

    Right now, they don’t have answers. If they did, the problem would be solved.

  53. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    Shelden Williams an interesting addition.

  54. Crawdaddy April 8th, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    Fenway is a dump and it’s a shame a visiting team can’t even shower after a game.

  55. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 8:33 pm

    mick/sj – I’ve got ideas in my head and don’t need u screwing them up with facts. In my mind, this rotation is fixed come august and I don’t have faith in cashman doing it via trade. As such, I see andy canceling his family vacations. Rumor has it he got trip insurance.

  56. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 8:34 pm

    SJ, I hope you’re right that he’s not hurt – but something is wrong. What would you do at this point? It could be as simple as Phil reacting to his heavy workload last year………..

  57. JoeyA April 8th, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    When all is said and done, I’d rather Phil go on the 15day and get right instead of watching him get bombed for 3-4 starts while he tries to figure it out- especially with a healthy Colon in the pen whose more than capable of spot starting.

  58. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    You can bet that if the air clears with Clemens and the Yanks are in need that Andy will have the ability to cancel his summer trip.

  59. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    Sj – is there any logic to sending him to scranton (trenton) for a few starts or do they run him out there again next week versus Baltimore? Yeah, its early, but giving up games in april with a pitcher who literally cannot get hitters out, makes no sense for any of the involved parties.

  60. SJ44 April 8th, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    Randy,

    Perhaps things have changed from the “old days” but, I was I was always taught that you gain arm strength from throwing.

    To me, keeping Hughes in the rotation limits the amount he can throw to gain arm strength.

    It’s why if lack of arm strength is the issue, I’m curious as to how they expect him to regain it by staying in the rotation.

  61. Echo . Romeo . Returns April 8th, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    L . o . l .

    A MUST READ from Paul Krugman

    ” . . . The G.O.P. budget plan isn’t a good-faith effort to put America’s fiscal house in order; it’s voodoo economics, with an extra dose of fantasy, and a large helping of mean-spiritedness.?”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04....._LO_MST_FB

  62. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    is there any logic to sending him to scranton (trenton) for a few starts or do they run him out there again next week versus Baltimore?
    ===========================
    One more start for his life….no pressure.
    If he gets bombed again, that should convince them something is wrong.

  63. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    It’s why if lack of arm strength is the issue, I’m curious as to how they expect him to regain it by staying in the rotation.
    ===================
    Maybe they figure getting bombed will increase his arm strength.

  64. Pat M. April 8th, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    Randy….I was stunned to find out that long toss is no longer part of a pitchers regiment in The Bronx……That was was always something that was done hours before toeing the slab….

  65. LGY April 8th, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    It’s why if lack of arm strength is the issue, I’m curious as to how they expect him to regain it by staying in the rotation.

    —-

    Don’t understand this either.

    He threw all of 9 fastballs today.

  66. 108 stitches April 8th, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    There’s many minor league facilities with more locker room space and working conditions than that dump in Boston has to offer. The players are just as squeezed as the fans seen on TV.
    No changes anytime soon. The dilapidated place will collapse first.

  67. West Coast Yankee Fan April 8th, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    Athletes have ups and downs. Biorhythms are real; human beings go through natural peaks and valleys for reasons no one understands. Sometimes good athletes have extended periods where their performance is not what it was previously. If there is no ailment that is diagnosed, and if young, they usually recover given time.

    Phil Hughes is I am sure being scrutinized by the Yankees and their medical staff and his mechanics are under the microscope as well. He and Rothschild are watching hours of tape, you can be assured of that. If he is healthy, at 24 years of age, there is no explanation. What you don’t do is panic and do something reactionary with someone as talented as he is. You do your work and try to get it straightened out naturally over time.

    That having been said, if he continuously pitches poorly, they won’t keep him in the rotation forever. They have an obligation to try to win. Maybe he’ll get some time off or go to the pen if it keeps up. But that time is not close IMO.

  68. SJ44 April 8th, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    If it was me, I’d put him on the DL with a “tired arm”.

    Give him a few days off, then send him to EX ST for a month, break him down, and build up his arm again as if it was ST.

    Take a month and put him on a throwing program and see how it goes.

    Colon can take his spot in the rotation.

    If he’s not hurt, and there is no evidence he is, then the only way he’s regaining arm strength is to be put on a program to do so.

    Hard to do that when you are taking the ball every five days.

  69. LGY April 8th, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    How is he supposed to get his fastball velo up when he is too scared to throw it?

  70. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    Top of 6th inning, 5-5 tie

    Krum walk

    Pirela fly out to left field

    Romine grounder to 3rd, scored a single

    Suttle line out to center field

    Johnson WP runners move to 2nd and 3rd, double to left center, 2 runs score

    Mesa walk

    Joseph ground out to 1st base.

    starting bottom of 6th inning, 7-5 trenton

    Charleston losing 8-4. Heathcott has 2 solo homers

  71. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    Well atleast we can be pretty sure phil is not hurt because we followed the innings limit guidelines for the last 4 years so its impossible for him to be hurt now. Only pitchers whose innings spike get hurt……injuries can’t just happen to anyone.

  72. Laura - I Bleed Blue April 8th, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    “Fenway is a dump and it’s a shame a visiting team can’t even shower after a game.”

    That had to be one funky bus ride to the hotel. :P

  73. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    Maybe he’ll get some time off or go to the pen if it keeps up. But that time is not close IMO.
    ================
    There is no room for him in the pen.
    Not meaningfull innings.
    Maybe mop up work but not the 7-9th

  74. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    Well atleast we can be pretty sure phil is not hurt because we followed the innings limit guidelines for the last 4 years so its impossible for him to be hurt now. Only pitchers whose innings spike get hurt……injuries can’t just happen to anyone.
    ——————–
    The coverup begins…

  75. SJ44 April 8th, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    Donnie Baseball, talking about Manny…

    “You wonder what he has been doing the last 7-8 years. You wonder about Boston, you wonder about everyone”.

    So true…….

  76. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    SJ, that’s a pretty decent plan………….seems reasonable.

    LGY, the ? would be – why is he afraid to throw his FB? Has he just lost THAT much faith in it? I guess 3 swings and misses in 2 games pretty much answers the question.

  77. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    “You wonder what he has been doing the last 7-8 years. You wonder about Boston, you wonder about everyone”.
    =================
    Kiss the Hall goodbye, Manny.
    Being Manny.

  78. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    That’s what I said about Manny today at work. We know when Bonds started using………but Manny? Did he use it in Cleveland? Bonds was a HOFer before he used – do we even know if Manny was before he used?

  79. 108 stitches April 8th, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    Pat M. April 8th, 2011 at 8:39 pm
    Randy….I was stunned to find out that long toss is no longer part of a pitchers regiment in The Bronx……That was was always something that was done hours before toeing the slab….
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Pat :
    I’m also stunned. This has been a routine for starting pitchers for some years and was done before the pitcher started his bullpen warmups for the game. It was done in ST. Could this be a new idea from Rothschild ?

  80. randy l. April 8th, 2011 at 8:49 pm

    s44j-

    i’m baffled by how they’re expecting hughes to get his velocity back too. how else can he get it if he doesn’t throw as fast as he can?

    now that the velocity is not there and they are in the season, if he throws really hard in a game to develop the velocity, he won’t be pitching, he’ll just be throwing so yeah i see your point about disabling him so he can just work on building velocity.

    that really may be the solution.

  81. Pat M. April 8th, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    I think the Hotel the Yanks stay at is actually walking distance from the ballpark….

  82. LGY April 8th, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    Such a sad way to end his career.

    You have to wonder like with Alex, why was it necessary to juice?

    He had such an amazing swing.

  83. blake April 8th, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    They aren’t long tossing? Wow.

  84. ron April 8th, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    Hughes has to find a way to gring through it & become a better pitcher or he will just fade away.

    I was all for trading him with montero for another ace because of the reports about montero not sticking at catcher & hughes lack of developing his secondary pitches.

    Hughes is never going to be a great pitcher without incorporating secondary pitches.
    He might be a decent one with a fb/cutter with great control + movement but not a great one,wich may or may not be good enough.

    I have always felt from the 2010 asb that we are missing another ace in our rotation.

  85. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    Somehow you ge the feeling the rah rah red sox can possibly split the season series with us yet finish 10 games behind.
    why is that?
    and why , for the 1st time i can remember ,that i dont take this series seriously?

  86. Joe from Long Island April 8th, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    Hi –

    Busy afternoon today, with patient care, so I only caught a very few parts of the game on TVs. Looks like Phil got bombed, Colon did well, Gardner did well, Alex hit one, and we lost.

    1. Phil will come back. I don’t know if it will take the dl with tired arm, as SJ suggests, or just time. But, the guy just didn’t lose it out of nowhere. It will be frustrating, for him and us fans, but he’ll get it together, and well in time for October. The guy has too much talent and desire for it not to.

    2. The Red Sox had to win a game sometime. Unfortunately, it was today. The world is not ending. Maybe it was the good Lord’s wish not to have Boston evacuated tonight.

    3. Tomorrow is another day. There’s 155 games to go. Our team has more than 1 win. Things will work out.

    Time to watch Friday Night Lights DVD with the mrs. Still a great show.

    Later.

    P.S. – Good bye Manny.

  87. DocTodd April 8th, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    Funny how today’s pitchers, with their innings limits, deal with tired arms……amazing how guys like Seaver and Ryan, and Wilbur Wood pitched over 250 innings,even 300 hundred innings in a season and flourished.

  88. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    not buying the yank-rs hype, in fact turned off the post game and avoided the pre-game hype.

  89. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    Ron, this has nothing to do with him grinding it out – he’s running on empty.

  90. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    Hi Joe!

  91. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    Pat – yanks stay at two different hotels in boston. One of which is the taj hotel on arlington……used to be a ritz carlton or a four seasons….forget which…..had beers with gator, proctor, tony pena and farnsworth in there one night. Great experience.

  92. randy l. April 8th, 2011 at 8:56 pm

    pat m-

    i didn’t know that yankee pitchers don’t do long toss.

    when did this start?

  93. LGY April 8th, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    Wanna hear a guy in denial?

    http://www.boston.com/video/vi.....7671450001

  94. DocTodd April 8th, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    Fenway is a dump where the player’s showers don’t even work…..but at least the outfielders can relieve themselves inside the outfield scoreboard. :)

  95. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    constant roar at knicks-nets game….seems theres a big brawl going on in the upper deck….more drunk than sober these days at sporting events, that’s for sure.

  96. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:58 pm

    wonder what it would do to attendance if they banned alcohol….maybe a few more comas will do it.

  97. blake April 8th, 2011 at 8:58 pm

    Alex didn’t need the juice…..that’s why it was.so dumb that he did it. I do think history will be kinder to him as 1) he admitted it 2) he did it in his prime when he would have put up big numbers anyway….not.when he was 38….3) because he’ll have 10+ years of production after testing.

    Manny’s whole career is.now in question.

  98. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 8:58 pm

    I would give anything for a Manny tell all about the 2004 red sox team.
    Specifically, I would like to understand how guys like varitek, nixon, millar, todd walker…..all seemingly had career or near career years at exactly the same time.

  99. mick April 8th, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    Fenway is a dump where the player’s showers don’t even work…..but at least the outfielders can relieve themselves inside the outfield scoreboard.
    ===============
    I’m sure red sock showers were working.

  100. West Coast Yankee Fan April 8th, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    Paralysis by analysis. He’s 24 and has proven in the very recent past how good a pitcher he is. These bumps in the road happen. I remember his terrific breaking pitch and swing and miss fastball, that wasn’t ages ago. It will work itself out. I’m sure the Yankees organization is qualified and competent enough to do the right thing; whatever that may be.

  101. blake April 8th, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    Braves are lighting up Lee.

  102. DocTodd April 8th, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    Carlo…..maybe Manny will write a book like Canseco and spill the beans on the Roid Sox….that would be awesome!

  103. tyanksfan36 April 8th, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    There’s a Gustavo Nunez on the Lakeland Tigers team. 2 names you don’t want to see together in the Yankees lineup.

  104. pat April 8th, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    “That had to be one funky bus ride to the hotel.”

    Less funky on a 40 degree day than a 90 degree day.

  105. Carl April 8th, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    Damn Cliff what happened son!

  106. blake April 8th, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    How do you not.long toss? What do they do?

  107. Against All Odds April 8th, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    Poor cliff lee

  108. DocTodd April 8th, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    Mick…I’m sure the Red Sox showers were working and they were probably showering together…..not that there’s anything wrong with that,as they say on Seinfield…..

  109. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    Oh, what a shame- Lee will have to hit the showers early; can he make it without the aid of a cane?

  110. LGY April 8th, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    The Rays offense is getting shut down again.

  111. 108 stitches April 8th, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    Fear not. Moe the Plumber (Joe the Plumber’s nephew) has been dispatched to Boston to fix the plumbing problems and should arrive by Monday morning in time for the Rays series at the Sardine Can. Only in Boston folks …. only in Boston.

    http://cdn.springboard.gorilla...../tard1.jpg

  112. ron April 8th, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    Betsy

    I was talking about grinding it out to become a better pitcher.

    He will be 25 yrs old in 3 months,he had a devestating curveball that is gone,he was working on a cutter that showed promise.

    H among other things has to develope an offspeed pitch,hopefully two.

    I’d like to see him with a cb,changeup,fb,cutter.

    It is up to him.

    How do great pitchers become great?

    By breaking down barriers along with their talent.

    In the past pitchers threw 300 innings,probably a lot more.

    And with all do respect,you have no clue what is going on with hughes or what the right path going forward is.
    There are a lot smarter people than you & i monitoring the situation.

  113. JoeyA April 8th, 2011 at 9:05 pm

    SJ-
    Your plan for Hughes is exactly how I feel.

    Having him work things out @ the expense of the team and it’s viability is beyond ridiculous.

  114. mick April 8th, 2011 at 9:05 pm

    The Rays offense is getting shut down again.
    ==============
    The Rays have an offense?

  115. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 9:05 pm

    Bottom of 6th inning, 7-5 Trenton, Arias pitching

    Stansberry walk, stolen base of 3rd when Romine tried picking of runner at 2nd and he stole 3rd base

    Soboleski walk

    Tolisano walk

    Igawa pitching

    Diaz infield pop-up

    Hechavarria walk, run scores

    Gose strikeout

    d’Arnaud walk run scores

    Mcdade out

    end of 6 innings score tied at 7-7

  116. SJ44 April 8th, 2011 at 9:06 pm

    There is no “paralysis by analysis”.

    The Yankees themselves can’t put a finger on the problem.

    That makes it a real, and not imagined, problem.

  117. DocTodd April 8th, 2011 at 9:06 pm

    Funny how Lee rips the Yankees for being old…..and pitches like a geezer tonight..

  118. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 9:06 pm

    As for the long toss – maybe u guys are talking about something different, but I was at two games at the stadium this year and before both games I watched sabathia and nova long toss in the outfield prior to heading into the pen.

  119. pat April 8th, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    Bill Hall takes out Hanley Ramirez with a slide at 2nd. Hanley can’t put any weight on left leg.

  120. ron April 8th, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    Imo hughes is giving up on a changeup & his curveball.

    He should accept nothing else short of perfecting them.
    How else does one become great?????

  121. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    Ron, I generally agree with you about Phil as a pitcher, but this is different – there’s something not right with him now.

  122. Pat M. April 8th, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    Randy….I guess they just started this season with long tossing…….Carlo, it was the Ritz Carlton I believe….SJ would know better…It’s really not a long walk

  123. West Coast Yankee Fan April 8th, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    I was talking about here.

  124. SJ44 April 8th, 2011 at 9:09 pm

    It’s hard to grind it out though with no stuff.

    It’s like going to to a gunfight with no bullets.

    I think the first thing they have to do is get his arm strength back.

    I don’t think grinding, or lack of it, is the issue. I think it’s the cliche answer given when the Yankees don’t have a handle of what is really going on.

  125. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 9:10 pm

    Ron, I think that’s the case with the curve for sure and I do think he’s not committed to the change, but that is for another time, when he’s healthy. Right now, his arm seems dead – it sounds like he has no life, no nothing. That’s the big problem now.

  126. Pat M. April 8th, 2011 at 9:10 pm

    GB…From your reports it seems as though Austin is not having the best of games behind the plate….

  127. Triple Short of a Cycle April 8th, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    DocTodd,

    Pitching back then was totally different. Most teams only had 2 or 3 dangerous hitters to go after. The rest they didn’t have to give max effort. Back then you didn’t have power hitting middle infielders. Plus today’s pitchers throw pitchers that put way more stress on their arms. 100 pitches today is what 150 pitches was 30 years ago which is the difference between going 6 or 7 innings and a complete game. Now add in the umpires calling less strikes and hitters taking more pitches. Pitchers also can’t brush back the way they used to. Pitchers are far superior today then they were 30 years ago.

  128. blake April 8th, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    Im sure Lee will have a good season and still be a good pitcher….but I do think its possible that the Giants showed the model for beating him…..which is to swing the bats, he’s not going to walk you, he hates to get behind, so swing at the first good pitch you see.

  129. mick April 8th, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    I really don’t get the need for excessive drinking esp at Yankee games.
    I have heard some say lets go watch the game in the bar.
    Unbelievable.

  130. DocTodd April 8th, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    Unreal stat…Wilbur Wood threw 376 innings in one season, and over 300 innings in 3 different seasons…of course they used a four manrotation, but still unreal..

  131. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    Absolutely, Phil is naked out there on the mound – I really feel for him. The Yankees are not doing him any favors making him struggle out there to get anything done. I wonder how he lost his arm strength

  132. Against All Odds April 8th, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    # LGY April 8th, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    The Rays offense is getting shut down again.

    ————————————-

    So everyone first guessed it right when they said the rays would take a step back

  133. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    The curveball hughes had when he came up in 2007 is largely absent. He had the nicr crisp 12-6 curveball he could locate. It seems to me that pitch is either gone or tweaked in a less than effective way.

    More importantly, I would have thought that time has taught the Yankees this lesson. They ran wang out when he was equally abysmal and he never improved. They kept running vazquez out and he never improved. Both guys cost the yankees multiple games…….games that were complete give aways. More so wang than vazquez, but the point is the same. Guys that are seriously screwed up like wang was and hughes may be are 1) guaranteed to give games away or make it very tough to win and 2) unlikely to improve while trying to work through problems at the major league level

  134. m April 8th, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    So false fire alarm and no showers? What does the little green sardine can of horrors have in store for the Yankees tomorrow?

    Reading Ortiz comments on Manny. Such a hypo.

  135. mick April 8th, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    I don’t think grinding, or lack of it, is the issue. I think it’s the cliche answer given when the Yankees don’t have a handle of what is really going on.
    ==================================
    I think admitting there is an injury would be something theyd want to hide considering the babying they have given Phil.

  136. m April 8th, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    Too bad for Ramirez. Heyman reax? Or does he only comment on the Yankees?

  137. ron April 8th, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    Betsy,i agree that right now they have to fix him first but i don’t think he is injured,we would know imo.

    I think long toss is a srart,jmo.

  138. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 9:15 pm

    Phil long-tossed on Tuesday…………..

  139. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    Doctodd – yeah, he threw 376 innings and he’s dead now because of it. See what happens when you overwork pitchers? Had cashman been handling his development he would still be pitching like a 5th starter.

  140. Pat M. April 8th, 2011 at 9:17 pm

    DocTodd……Old Wilbur was a knuckleball horse…..And he had a dandy one…..

  141. mick April 8th, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    Wilbur Wood threw 376 innings in one season, and over 300 innings in 3 different
    ======================
    Maybe Phil can develop a knuckleball…

  142. mick April 8th, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    pat m….ever faced a knuckler….is it more of a dancing sensation or a floater?

  143. Pat M. April 8th, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    Betsy….One time doesn’t do that much as it’s an accumulated routine to maximize the full affect….

  144. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    top of 7th inning, 7-7 tie

    Maruszak walk picked off of 2nd

    Kruml sac bunt

    Krum walk

    Pirela fouled out to 2nd base

    starting bottom of 7th inning

    Charleston losing 8-5 in bottom of 7th inning

    Heathcott has 2 solo homers, Murphy homered, DeLeon homered

  145. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    Pat M, I agree – and if long toss is going to help, then they should keep doing it…………This is so frustrating; it sucks to have to read how helpless Phil feels.

  146. DocTodd April 8th, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    I think Wood had over 20 wins And 20 losses in the same season….the game is definitely different today….

  147. ron April 8th, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    Hughes wen’t to the mussina knuckle curve & has never been the same since as far as his curveball,he needs to go back to his original one.

    Also,all we heard is how good his changeup was coming along & how it was why he won a rotation spot,then he doesn’t use it.

    Lets go hughes.You either grab the bulls by the horns or it will grab you.

    I would give him one more start,then send him down,break him down & start over.
    It looks like that hitch that he has in his delivery is tailored just for his fb & might be hurting his other pitches.

  148. Pat M. April 8th, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    mick….I rapped 2 vs. Charlie Hough when he was pitching for The Vero Beach Dodgers….Wilbur made me look real bad….He also had Murcer cursing with a heavy Oakie drawl….Bloomberg didn’t fair out much better either…..Richie Allen hit a moonshot that day

  149. Tom in N.J. April 8th, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    Who was the last pitcher to throw 300 innings?

  150. mick April 8th, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    pat m….what did the knuckler look like when you saw it, do you remember?

  151. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    bottom of 7th inning 7-7 tie, Igawa pitching

    Sierra strikeout looking

    Stansberry fly out to right center

    Soboleski fly out to deep left

    end of 7 inngs, 7-7 tie

  152. Fran the original April 8th, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    end of 7 inngs, 7-7 tie
    ***************
    GB,

    7 seems to be the magic number :)

  153. pat April 8th, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    Grown men acting like little boys- Rangers- O’s game rain postponed

    http://www.twitvid.com/6ZGPF

  154. randy l. April 8th, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    “.Carlo, it was the Ritz Carlton I believe….SJ would know better…It’s really not a long walk”

    pat m-

    i walked once from the yankee hotel to fenway with willie randolph and my friend carl taylor who was their BP pitcher. it took about twenty minutes .

  155. igotid88 April 8th, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    As the season goes on Hughes will get stronger.

  156. Triple Short of a Cycle April 8th, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    igotid88,

    based on what?

  157. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    Trenton, Top of the 8th inning, 7-7 tie

    Romine fly out to deep right center

    Suttle strikeout

    Johnson groundout to 1st base

    starting bottom of 8th inning 7-7 tie

  158. West Coast Yankee Fan April 8th, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    In 2010 AJ Burnett had three games in a row where he gave up 6 runs or more. In those games he went 3.1, 4.0 and 3.0 innings.

  159. mick April 8th, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    i walked once from the yankee hotel to fenway with willie randolph and my friend carl taylor who was their BP pitcher. it took about twenty minutes .
    ===============
    Must have been the Sheraton. Once spoke to Jim Abbott in the lobby, near the bar.
    Also ran into, Dwight Gooden and Tino on the escalator.

  160. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    Yes randy – that sounds right. 20 minutes by foot. Hotel was across the street from the park…..nice old oak/dark wood bar inside the lobby.

  161. DocTodd April 8th, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    Rays trailing 4-1 and have Still never had a lead this season!

  162. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    Triple short – I think the posters thesis is that he’s starting from a point where getting weaker seems impossible. Thus, its an easy comparison.

  163. austinmac April 8th, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    Hughes is quoted in The Times saying he is lost out there. It is a big mistake to throw him out there until he gets arm strength back. It can ruin him.

  164. blake April 8th, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    The hope would be that Hughes stuff will improve with time…..Im just not sure they can afford to give away games hoping that each start will be the one where his stuff returns and then finding out too late that it wasn’t.

    That’s why I think you keep him out until you see evidence that he getting his strength back…..it doesn’t do anybody any good for him to go out and get knocked around when he’s not right.

  165. SJ44 April 8th, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    Was AJ throwing his fastballs at 86-88 MPH in those outings? Nope.

    It’s about how he is throwing and not the results.

  166. Pat M. April 8th, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    Mick…..The ball has absolutely no spin and it seems to just float and take forever to get to the plate…..The best portrayal of the knuckler was in Billy Crystal’s great movie ” 61 “, when Tom Candiotti plays Hoyt Wilhelm pitching to Roger Maris…..One thing is for certain, it’s far more difficult catching the thing than hitting it, especially if it’s windy…..Try hitting a whiffleball in the wind, very similar….

  167. blake April 8th, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    The Rays might be worse than the Mariners offensively without Longoria.

  168. pat April 8th, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    Yankees stayed at the Ritz across from Boston Common the last couple of years.

  169. mick April 8th, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    blake

    if they throw him next week they are saying here’s one more shot… a few things can happen , he can fail or he can show signs of improvement .

    the question is what do you do if he fails again?

    is this his last chance for now?

    now that’s pressure.

  170. Pat M. April 8th, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    Tin Cup….I remember you sharing that story a few years back…For some reason I thought it was SJ drinking some brews there….

  171. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    Comparing 2010 AJ, who was utterly hideous, to 2011 Hughes…… and actually arguing for sticking with Hughes based on AJ’s performances……is simply illogical.

  172. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    starting bottom of 8th inning 7-7 tie, Igawa pitching

    Tolisano strikeout

    Diaz fly out to 2nd

    Hechavarria single to right field

    Gose single to left, runner to 3rd base

    d’Arnaud fly out to center

    starting top of 9th inning, 7-7 tie

  173. tyanksfan36 April 8th, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    Mark Prior is in Tampa, he is number 51, just not on the roster for some reason.

  174. mick April 8th, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    pat m….i have tried throwing the knuckler and note the no spin but have never seen it dance….think it looks hittable without the spin but if it danced that seems impossible

  175. Triple Short of a Cycle April 8th, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    right now to just equal last years top 3 Burnett has to replace Phil and another starter must be acquired to equal Pettite. Not an easy thing to accomplish. If only Andy came back for one more year

  176. mick April 8th, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    O’s rained out and get this—single ticket doubleheader tomorrow.

  177. blake April 8th, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    Mick,

    If he doesn’t show improved velocity in his bullpen between now and then then I probably wouldn’t start him……

  178. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    I don’t understand why he has to be thrown out there. Are we seriously at a point in baseball where pitchers are unable to even show what they have in between starts? Between now and the middle of next week he can’t throw a simulated few innings to show if anything is clicking? It takes him going out and getting his head handed to him for them to say “hey, guess what, he’s still not right, we lost this game too, now what do we do with him?”.

  179. igotid88 April 8th, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    Triple Short of a Cycle April 8th, 2011 at 9:32 pm
    igotid88,

    based on what?
    ———————————–

    based on he’s still young. can’t just give up on him so soon. He has a possibility of pitching for another 15 years.

  180. mick April 8th, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    the knuckler sounds like trying to catch a butterfly

  181. Triple Short of a Cycle April 8th, 2011 at 9:47 pm

    igotid88,

    No one is saying to give up on him. What people are saying is he should not be pitching in the major league rotation until he gets things figured out

  182. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    Igotid – nobody is “giving up” on Hughes. There is a big difference between the following:

    1 – what folks are suggesting: skip a few starts until the problems are fixed or a problem is discovered…..he goes to the minors for this or is put on the DL and goes to extended ST

    2 – removing him from the rotation, putting colon in, making hughes a mop up guy and saying forget it

    No one is suggesting the latter, but no one believes working out the issues at the ML level while costing the team games is smart either.

  183. Pat M. April 8th, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    mick…Eating soup with a fork……Hitting it when it moves left to right is do able, it’s the bottom falling out that is tough….Best advise is to take your hacks when it appears to be a high pitch…Anything that looks belt high is an exercise in futility

  184. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    Top of 9th inning, 7-7 tie

    Mesa strikeout swinging

    Joseph ground out to shortstop

    Maruszak walk

    Kruml ground out to pitcher

    starting bottom of 9th inning, 7-7 tie

  185. igotid88 April 8th, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    Triple Short of a Cycle April 8th, 2011 at 9:47 pm
    igotid88,

    No one is saying to give up on him. What people are saying is he should not be pitching in the major league rotation until he gets things figured out
    ———————————————–

    I know not everyone is saying that. But it feels like a lot are giving up. But if he’s not injured he should continue to pitch. If they need to skip a start or push him back an extra day so be it. He’ll probably go 5 or 6 good innings in his next start with the same stuff. I’ve seen the Yankee hitters look awful facing pitchers with the same stuff.

  186. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    Igotid – the only pitchers the yankees have faced this year who have displayed stuff even close to as poor as hughes were scherzer and lackey. Both managed to outduel and outlast hughes.

  187. LGY April 8th, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    I guess I just don’t understand what the problem is with sending Hughes to EST and making him show you the velocity before pitching him in the majors again?

    What is the worse that can happen? He gets back his velocity next week and the Yankees miss out on a couple of starts with him back to “normal.”

    Colon is clearly a capable major league pitcher right now. What’s the big deal if he gets a couple starts even if Hughes recovers quickly while on the DL?

    They have treated the kid like porcelain his entire career. Why not take the safe route while the Yankees have some options with their rotation?

  188. LGY April 8th, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    “I’ve seen the Yankee hitters look awful facing pitchers with the same stuff.”

    —————–

    Hughes has no stuff right now. The kid threw 30 cutters out of 47 pitches today. Most of his outs are just a matter of luck, like a hard ball being hit directly at someone.

    He may as well be throwing lefty right now.

  189. igotid88 April 8th, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 9:55 pm
    Igotid – the only pitchers the yankees have faced this year who have displayed stuff even close to as poor as hughes were scherzer and lackey. Both managed to outduel and outlast hughes.
    —————————————

    exactly. so if hughes had been facing the yankees he would have 2 wins

  190. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    No – if Hughes had been facing the Yankees he would have never made it out of the first inning so far this year.

    Take a look at the ledger of outs he has recorded this season so far…..don’t won’t, it won’t take very long to accumulate the list.

  191. LGY April 8th, 2011 at 10:05 pm

    After two starts last year Javy had a 9.82 ERA.

    Hughes has a 16.50 ERA in 2 starts.

  192. Carlo April 8th, 2011 at 10:07 pm

    Hughes is way more similar to Wang a few years ago then Javy last year.

  193. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    bottom of 9th inning, Venditte pitching

    McDade double to left field (pitching left handed)

    Sierra walk (pitching right handed)

    Stansberry pop out to right field, runner to 3rd (pitching right handed)

    Soboleski pop up to left field (pitching right handed)

    Tolisano single to left field (pitching left handed), run scores

    Trenton loses 8-7.

    Final Box score:

    http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....x_nhmaax_1

    Ugly game

  194. PaulieNumbers April 8th, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    COLON > HUGHESY

    Say it ain’t so Phil…

  195. igotid88 April 8th, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    LGY April 8th, 2011 at 9:59 pm
    “I’ve seen the Yankee hitters look awful facing pitchers with the same stuff.”

    —————–

    Hughes has no stuff right now. The kid threw 30 cutters out of 47 pitches today. Most of his outs are just a matter of luck, like a hard ball being hit directly at someone.

    He may as well be throwing lefty right now.
    ———————–

    I know. But the Yanks faced pitcher who basically threw nothing but changeups and were fooled a lot.

    Either way he’ll be fine. Maybe he needs a new grip or something I don’t know.

  196. tyanksfan36 April 8th, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    Tampa Yankees are tied 6-6 heading into the bottom of the 10th. Abe Almonte missed a ball in the outfield that allowed the tigers to go up on is 6-4 and then he came up to bat and hit a huge homerun to the tribune deck to tie it back up to 6-6

  197. LGY April 8th, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    Among starters, Hughes has the third worst ERA in baseball.

    Among starters that have made more than 1 start, he has the worst.

  198. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 10:14 pm

    Charleston lost 11-7 in another ugly game. here’s the final box score

    http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....x_lexafx_1

  199. Fran the original April 8th, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    GB, sorry Trenton lost, but thanks for the updates.

    *****************

    Tyanks, thanks for the Tampa updates.

    *****************
    I trust in whatever Girardi and Rothschild decide, but I really think that they should skip Hughes at least 1 time through to let him try and work out his problems. Colon has pitched well and can take the starts.

  200. Pat M. April 8th, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    GB….That was the most unreal 1/2 inning report I’ve ever seen as you had to speciify the left arm / right arm distinction…..I camn only think how a play by play on air would go……Great stuff GB…..

  201. tyanksfan36 April 8th, 2011 at 10:19 pm

    Kyle Higashioka scores Taylor Grote from 3rd on an infield hit that the 3rd baseman couldn’t come up with. Walk Off win in Tampa!!

  202. Pat M. April 8th, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    GB….How long before you think Heathcott gets moved up ??? Kyle is still in Tampa, I really thought he’d be moving up by now…..Would have been a Junior in college had he not turned pro……

  203. Wave Your Hat April 8th, 2011 at 10:27 pm

    This off-season, I said I thought Hughes was a question mark.

    I think, without exception, I was told I was full of you know what.

    Now, after two starts, I still think he is a question mark. However, everyone else here is ready to ride him out of town on a rail, DL him, send him to the minors, trade him for Jose Molina, Hughes who?

    This is absurd. He has had two starts. TWO. He isn’t pitching well, but it is TWO starts.

    Those who in the off-season thought he was a sure thing – you know who you are – should not be giving up on him now. I didn’t think he was a sure thing, but I sure haven’t given up on him.

  204. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 10:27 pm

    Tampa yanks win 7-6 on Higashioka’s infield single

    Final Box score

    http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....a_tbyafa_1

  205. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 10:31 pm

    Pat M., maybe this summer, but, he’s raw as a fresh laid egg in all departments.
    He’s got special tools, though. Injuries really set him back last year. Really, I’m somewhat surprised he didn’t open back in Charleston.

    Higashioka was in Charleston last year. Still needs work with the bat. Defense is OK.

  206. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 10:33 pm

    Pat M., two of venditte’s hitters were switch hitters. He has to declare the side he’s pitching from and has to stay that side through that at bat.

  207. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 10:37 pm

    Fran/Pat, happy to do the updates. Also glad there was a Scranton rainout. I was going crazy trying to keep it straight. I need some extended ST work to get my fingers and eyes in shape

  208. tyanksfan36 April 8th, 2011 at 10:39 pm

    GB

    I got my picture taken with Manny. And don’t try to steal my TY reporting. It was almost a squeeze play.

  209. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 10:39 pm

    Nothing could be worse on the ears than having to chose the announcing crew in a game between Tampa and the White Sox.

  210. pak14life April 8th, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    hey guys

    check out my Knicks game recap over @ http://t.co/4eiOI8R Vote in the Poll if you havent, and check out the Sheldon Williams Post.

  211. Joe from Long Island April 8th, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    going to turn in now. just one thing to say, guys –

    keep the faith. like scarlett said, tomorrow is another day.

    let’s go yankees.

    ‘night.

  212. Pat M. April 8th, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    GB…..When I watched Kyle in HS I thought some of his skill set was better than Austin’s……He was smoother behind the plate and had great power and played in a big ballpark that was about a half mile from the ocean……However the Yankee catching pipeline is stacked at every level so until the jam is alleviated he’s in High A Ball…..He’s about 21 by now ???/

  213. MTU April 8th, 2011 at 10:43 pm

    Randy-

    Can’t/shouldn’t the the Yankees do strength testing on Phil’s arm to determine scientifically
    if his arm is weak ?

    Didn’t someone do that kind of thing on Wang’s legs ?

    Why all the guesswork ?

  214. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 10:43 pm

    tyanksfan36 April 8th, 2011 at 10:39 pm
    GB

    I got my picture taken with Manny. And don’t try to steal my TY reporting. It was almost a squeeze play.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Oh, Oh!!!! Miss Tough guy, huh?

    Didn’t mean to jump on your reports, TY. I haven’t been reading the board.

    I’m not that good at listening, reading, posting and watching 4 games. You’re doing a great job. Thank you for your up to the minute updates.

  215. Pat M. April 8th, 2011 at 10:44 pm

    Wave…..I still maintain that Hughes is going to be a special pitcher, but he’s developing a track record as a slow out of the gate guy

  216. MTU April 8th, 2011 at 10:46 pm

    Pat M.-

    That doesn’t make a whole lot of sense since Phil is frequently one of the 1st pitchers to report to camp.

  217. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    Pat M., Higashioka will be just 21 in about 2 weeks

  218. mypalfish April 8th, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    So the two top-notch guys that the Yanks were so hesitant to trade turned into a mediocre 7th inning reliever and a questionable back-end of the rotation guy. Sure a good thing NY didn’t deal them when they had a ton of value.

  219. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    It looks like Hughes may need to start throwing right after New Year’s and be at near full strength by the first of February.

  220. Carl April 8th, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    espn.com

    Red Sox crush the Yankees.

  221. William Buckner April 8th, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    “Wave…..I still maintain that Hughes is going to be a special pitcher, but he’s developing a track record as a slow out of the gate guy”

    How is that? Last year he started out something like 6-0 with a 2 era. After that, closer to 5 era and 12-10.

    I think last years innings have caught up to him. He’ll have to battle through.

  222. MTU April 8th, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    GB-

    Or maybe Phil should go to API each off season.

  223. MTU April 8th, 2011 at 10:54 pm

    Battle through with what ?

    By bringing a pea shooter to a gunfight.

    Phil depends on his FB. He either has sufficient velocity or he doesn’t.

    His secondary pitches are not fully developed.

  224. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    Hughes needs to throw, not lift weights. Break loose the adhesions in his arm.

  225. West Coast Yankee Fan April 8th, 2011 at 10:56 pm

    I think it is a bit amusing how so many anointed Rothschild a saint in spring training, before a pitch was thrown that counted. Where are those fans now? If Hughes started out great Rothschild would be a genius — now that he hasn’t, Rothschild gets a pass; it’s Hughes fault.

  226. randy l. April 8th, 2011 at 10:56 pm

    “Can’t/shouldn’t the the Yankees do strength testing on Phil’s arm to determine scientifically
    if his arm is weak ?”

    mtu-

    there is equipment that does strength testing, but i guess it’s still an inexact science. cb, i think, had some info on it a year ago or so. the red sox use it and their pitchers still get hurt. bt it seems that the yankees are till winging it as fas as their pitchers go.

    the wang mess seems to have changed nothing. they basically seem to wait until something blows out to identify the problem. it wasn’t long ago that joba had velocity issues too. the yankees really have not developed a starter who continues to throw hard.

    maybe nova will continue to have a good fastball and break the pattern.

  227. MTU April 8th, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    GB-

    Then he should throw.

    But not in the Majors on an ML mound.

    In Tampa maybe, or at AAA.

  228. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    As a matter of fact, lifting weights may be part of Hughes problems. Too bound up in the upper body.

  229. MTU April 8th, 2011 at 10:59 pm

    Randy-

    It’s time they get with it.

    It’s called Science.

    ;)

  230. Against All Odds April 8th, 2011 at 11:01 pm

    # West Coast Yankee Fan April 8th, 2011 at 10:56 pm

    I think it is a bit amusing how so many anointed Rothschild a saint in spring training, before a pitch was thrown that counted. Where are those fans now? If Hughes started out great Rothschild would be a genius — now that he hasn’t, Rothschild gets a pass; it’s Hughes fault.

    ———————————————–

    Outside of Hughes and Logan is anyone else on the staff performing badly?

  231. UnKnown April 8th, 2011 at 11:01 pm

    Too funny of a headline put out there at espn.com. I guess the word “Crush” has a new meaning to it that I didn’t know of. Weak Sauce by espn once again.

  232. MTU April 8th, 2011 at 11:01 pm

    GB-

    Joba seems to have benefited from lifting.

    Maybe it’s what you do ?

  233. MTU April 8th, 2011 at 11:02 pm

    Or how much ?

  234. West Coast Yankee Fan April 8th, 2011 at 11:04 pm

    AOO – That wasn’t the point was it? I’m referring to Hughes.

  235. MTU April 8th, 2011 at 11:05 pm

    Good night folks.

    Here’s to hoping that Nova turns in another good performance tomorrow.

    See you on the sunny side.

  236. Wave Your Hat April 8th, 2011 at 11:07 pm

    It is too soon to say Hughes has a problem. He isn’t pitching well, but that isn’t necessarily the same thing. We all need to give it time – that’s the approach the Yanks will take.

  237. Wave Your Hat April 8th, 2011 at 11:08 pm

    These days you can lift with proper stretching.

  238. UnKnown April 8th, 2011 at 11:13 pm

    Holy Meltdown Batman at the Cell

  239. MTU April 8th, 2011 at 11:15 pm

    WYH-

    It’s clear that Phil has a velocity problem.

    The questions are: what is causing it ?, and what to do about it ?

  240. tyanksfan36 April 8th, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    GB

    We figured the only way to avoid a Lyerly error was to not let any balls come his way, they were pretty good about that tonight. and he definitely showed off his bat going 3-5

    Sean Black pitched tonight and from when I was watching he did a good job. Romanski is supposedly pitching tomorrow and Ramirez on Sunday, according to the thing they handed out at the game.

  241. Pat M. April 8th, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    Wave….Maybe he needs to be stretched out muscle wise….Although it doesn’t appear that he’s short arming but it did seem as though he was aiming the ball in the 2nd inning…Blake earlier thought Phil wasn’t completing his pitches which is a lack of extension…….

  242. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 8th, 2011 at 11:21 pm

    “Fenway really is a pit. What an awful excuse for a ML ballpark”

    I have always said what a pit fenway is and I remember having some Yankee posters wax poetic about how they love going to fenway and thinking it has such charm to it.

    What???? It is a disgusting green urinal with a ridiculous looking wall that has no place in the game of baseball. It’s an embarrassment to the game. But then there are provincial people in this world so maybe their idea of a good time is something that disgusting.

  243. GreenBeret7 April 8th, 2011 at 11:22 pm

    tyanksfan36 April 8th, 2011 at 11:17 pm
    GB

    We figured the only way to avoid a Lyerly error was to not let any balls come his way, they were pretty good about that tonight. and he definitely showed off his bat going 3-5

    Sean Black pitched tonight and from when I was watching he did a good job. Romanski is supposedly pitching tomorrow and Ramirez on Sunday, according to the thing they handed out at the game.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    hitting is Lyerly’s best position. It’s too bad. Hopefully his defense improves, because he can mah a baseball. Black is a fine young pitcher. he should get to 6 innings by his next start, Has a 75 pitch count

  244. Wave Your Hat April 8th, 2011 at 11:23 pm

    “It’s clear that Phil has a velocity problem.”

    It’s clear his velocity is down. It isn’t clear he has a velocity “problem”.

  245. randy l. April 8th, 2011 at 11:24 pm

    mtu-

    think about it. what starter has the yankees developed that throws hard?

    now maybe that’s because they don’t get the high draft picks, but also maybe it’s because they don’t have the right program for developing velocity.

    the one thing that seems to work is sending guys like hughes and joba to the bullpen where they make the decision themselves to let it all out for an inning or so.

    that seems to be the only way yankee starters develop velocity and then it seems to go away when they start on a regular basis.

  246. Wave Your Hat April 8th, 2011 at 11:27 pm

    Pat M-

    I don’t mean to downplay Phil’s lack of effectiveness – it was pretty clear today. I just think many pitchers have had two consecutive lousy games, and when pitchers have two consecutive lousy games they are doing something wrong. Which Phil is.

    But these things often correct themselves. If Phil had these two games in the middle of the season no one would be panicking. I just think that while it is fair to be concerned, it is too soon to take him out of the rotation.

  247. MTU April 8th, 2011 at 11:29 pm

    WYH-

    So you think that the velocity will return of it’s own accord in Phil’s next start or two ?

    Randy-

    Thank you for responding. I think a longer discussion of this subject might be required.

    Maybe we could pick it up again in the AM ?

    I’d very much like to hear your perspective in
    greater detail.

  248. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 11:29 pm

    LGY, yep. It’s not fair to the team – which is what we said when Wang struggled – and it’s hurtful to Phil. If he’s lost and helpless out there, he should not be facing major league hitters. This is sort of hard to believe – it’s hard to believe that this is where we are with this kid at this tiime.

  249. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 11:30 pm

    Randy, I think sending Phil to the pen was a mistake. I get the idea that he became more aggressive, but not only did it cut short his innings, more importantly it made him FB and cutter happy. His curve has not been good since………….

  250. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 8th, 2011 at 11:30 pm

    “I think it is a bit amusing how so many anointed Rothschild a saint in spring training, before a pitch was thrown that counted. Where are those fans now? If Hughes started out great Rothschild would be a genius — now that he hasn’t, Rothschild gets a pass; it’s Hughes fault”

    HERE WE ARE! It takes everything I have to keep from calling you “stupid” based on the post you wrote.

    Amusing? We’ve seen pitches that count now, Einstein. It’s called an entire transition of AJ Burnett – something that’s CRITICAL to the success of the Yankees. We’ve seen pitches that count with Joba, something that is extremely important to the Yankees success.

    Oh yeah, I find it a bit amusing that you continued to condescendingly refer to Joba as a fifth-inning has been and then had the nerve to kind of pretend you never said it by being even more depracating when he was announced as the 7th inning guy by saying how the mighty have fallen – or words to that effect.

    Yes the mighty HAVE fallen – that would be you with your assessment of Joba. I would think that going from a “fifth-inning has been” to the announced 7th inning starter would be a promotion, not falling mightily. Now, wouldn’t you agree?

    Rothschild has worked wonders with two tough cases on the Yankees pitching staff. Because Hughes is scuffling doesn’t negate that fact.

  251. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 11:31 pm

    I should say – it worked out well for the Yankees and that’s the most important thing, but in terms of Phil’s career and his future effectiveness with this team, I think the Yankees made a mistake.

  252. tyanksfan36 April 8th, 2011 at 11:31 pm

    GB

    I think a lot of them have a pitch count of 75 pitches, Brett did yesterday but he got rocked in the 4th I think and got up to 60 so they didn’t bring him back out for the 5th.

  253. randy l. April 8th, 2011 at 11:33 pm

    if i were in charge, i’d take hughes to the bullpen and put a radar gun on him and tell him that when he feels like he’s warmed up to max out his fastball . i’d tell him what the speed of each pitch is and to see if he can increase it up to 95mph.

    if he couldn’t hit 95, i’d disable him and send him back to extended spring training until he can throw one inning at 95mph. that should allow him to start and throw 92-93mph.

    it appears that the yankees just expect velocity to magically appear as the season goes on. of course when you buy the pitcher like sabathia or burnett with a ready made fastball it does kind of magically appear.

  254. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    Wave, you and I felt the same way, but on the other hand, I do not agree that people want to run him out of time – not at all.. LGY has been one of his biggest supporters. All I see are people concerned about his health -and yes, what his awful performance means for the Yankees.

  255. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    town, not time

  256. Wave Your Hat April 8th, 2011 at 11:35 pm

    “So you think that the velocity will return of it’s own accord in Phil’s next start or two ?”

    MTU-

    I’ve been agnostic on Phil the whole winter, on the theory that young pitchers often take a step back their second full season starting. So no, I don’t think it will necessarily happen. On the other hand, I believe he has a lot of talent and it is worth giving him some more starts to see.

  257. SAS April 8th, 2011 at 11:35 pm

    Randy I,

    Chen Ming Wang had velocity.

  258. randy l. April 8th, 2011 at 11:35 pm

    betsy-

    hughes didn’t have much of a fastball until he went to the bullpen. we never saw 95-96 mph fastball from him until he did.

  259. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 8th, 2011 at 11:36 pm

    I am not a fan of “on the mound experimentation”. When a pitcher is lost the way Hughes is lost, I don’t believe in letting him try to find his way at the expense of the team. And that is exactly what it is. And it’s wrong.

    It would be one thing if Girardi had a quick hook. But it will be the opposite (“We don’t want him to lose his confidence so I wasn’t going to pull him”). I am a huge fan of Girardi’s, and I am a huge fan of patience with a player; but I am also a total realist when someone is struggling to the degree Phil is struggling. He deserves to get it straight, but not at the expense of the team, and not at the expense of his sense of self. They do him no favors if they continue to throw him out without a net. The writers are not going to aim their criticisms at Girardi. They’ll be aimed at Phil. I don’t read that tripe, but Betsy has posted it/referred to it enough that I know it’s not going to be kind. And Phil doesn’t deserve that.

    Colon should be in the rotation and Phil should go down to Tampa to work with Nardi Contreras or whoever else is down there. It’s not a crime to get a pitcher straightened out while the team continues to progress!

  260. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 11:36 pm

    Also, Phil had a great start last year…………Maybe he overdoes it with the workouts, maybe he’s not working out the right way – I don’t know. He’s got issues besides velocity, but the velocity thing has to be taken care of before anything else and I don’t see how anything but time is going to fix that, time the Yankees don’t have

  261. randy l. April 8th, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    “Chen Ming Wang had velocity.”

    for how long?

    that’s exactly my point.

  262. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    GB, I have said that in the past and you got on my case about that. I have said Phil was getting too big and I got attacked by several people………..hmm.

  263. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 8th, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    SAS – I haven’t had the chance to share this excitement with you. You said you didn’t care about ST results (naughty naughty, they are telling at the end!) but would get excited during the season to hear about the Sux losing. Well up until today they had lost six in a row.

    :)

    Reason to celebrate.

  264. SAS April 8th, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    Good evening all,

    I have read bits and pieces of the blog, and I agree with Betsy and who ever else said that there is something the matter. Fortunately, Hughes attitude is good, and I think he will do what he has to do to get back what he has lost.

    Hopefully, that’s possible.

  265. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 11:40 pm

    Randy, if he didn’t have much of a FB, that’s due to either mother nature not giving him much of a FB or because he was hurt. I’ve heard too many people say he had a very good FB (regardless of velocity) in the minors to believe it’s MN, so IMO, it’s obviously because he was hurt and rehabbing in 2007 and 2008. He’s not a flame thrower by any means – and any pitcher will throw harder out of the pen. He can be maybe a solid type of starter as is, but he will never live up to the ceiling people think or thought he has/had until he develops his breaking pitches.

  266. just_another_handle April 8th, 2011 at 11:40 pm

    No Manny, no problem.

    Rays bounce back with 5 in the top of the 9th to beat W. Sox 9-6.

  267. Against All Odds April 8th, 2011 at 11:40 pm

    Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 11:31 pm

    I think the Yankees made a mistake.

    ——————————————–

    Wouldn’t be the first time and unfortunately probably not the last

  268. randy l. April 8th, 2011 at 11:40 pm

    “Thank you for responding. I think a longer discussion of this subject might be required.”

    mtu-

    good idea.

  269. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 8th, 2011 at 11:41 pm

    “No Manny, no problem.

    Rays bounce back with 5 in the top of the 9th to beat W. Sox 9-6.”

    Good for them. I wasn’t taking any joy in seeing them winless.

  270. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 11:42 pm

    Randy, also, Phil does not throw 95- he just doesn’t, except on occasion. He’s generally between 91-93, with some 94′s thrown in. You can’t force a guy to have velocity he doesn’t have – Phil is not that kind of pitcher.

  271. SAS April 8th, 2011 at 11:43 pm

    Trisha,

    Good to be on here with you. I’ve been around. There hasn’t been much to say. I think the Yanks are off to a good start despite Hughes 2 outings. I am thrilled with what Colon did today. and look forward to seeing if Garcia is the real thing.

    My hatred of the Sox is not as overt as yours, but I quietly root against them at all times.

    Someone said on here, and it is so true, the Sox vs. Yankees was never such a big deal until recent years because the Sox were dreadful, and for a while so were the Yankees. Many people on here weren’t born or fans when they were bad..both teams.

  272. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 11:46 pm

    Odds, no team is perfect, you know? However, they keep making mistakes with their pitchers. That said, overall, if Joba really does end up being a reliever and Phil ends up being nothing more than a solid pitcher (which isn’t bad, just not what was expected of him), it’s not the Yankees’ fault; this stuff is on the players (on any player – not just Joba/Phil specifically).

  273. SAS April 8th, 2011 at 11:46 pm

    Randy,

    Wang got seriously hurt. You can’t say that happens all the time. It was years before Wang that they developed any decent starter other than Andy.

  274. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 11:46 pm

    No one can get inside a pitcher’s arm – no one can ever really know if a pitcher can hold up under the stress of what is an unnatural motion.

  275. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 8th, 2011 at 11:47 pm

    I think part of the problem for Phil is that he takes to heart all of the suggestions dumped on him. He appears to be a very literal guy. If they tell him he needs to develop a new pitch, he’s going to try to develop a new pitch. You think that’s easy to do? I think for some pitchers it may be. I think for someone like Phil, who seems extremely regimented and routine-oriented, it’s going to be harder. And so if he has to really become intense and single-minded in a certain area, it’s probable that other things are going to suffer.

    Phil Hughes pitched a game in Texas where he took a no hitter into the 6th inning and then got hurt (something like that). Is it that that Phil Hughes was fooling people and eventually they were going to catch on? Who is the Phil Hughes that the Yankees drafted #1? Were they drafting a pitcher or what they thought he might develop into? Most of the time when pitchers are drafted #1, it’s because their arsenal is considered that valuable.

    How is it that Phil Hughes was once a pretty complete pitcher and then all of a sudden became incomplete and needed new pitches?

  276. Pat M. April 8th, 2011 at 11:53 pm

    I remember 3 years ago when Randy pointed out some mechanical issues ( arm slot ) with Wang & that was one of the more enjoyable nights I’ve ever had here by the way….However, after watching video from today’s game and even The Tiger start, I can’t find anything unusual…….Other than a few times in the 2nd when it seemed as though he was aiming somewhat he lloks fine until 3 feet or so in front the zone…..

  277. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 11:54 pm

    Trish, I googled all I could about Phil, still do, and read last year an article in which Mark Newman said Phil (and this is no surprise as he was a HS kid) was drafted with the future in mind. That is, they saw his great build and good FB, his great attitude, etc…and projected what he’d be able to do. Well, he did pick up the curve quickly, but the change? That’s not something he’s got a feel for. I think he tends to tinker – a lot – not even with encouragement from others. I think he’s a perfectionist and he takes it hard (it’s obvious) when he struggles as he thinks he’s letting his team down. I just think he loves his FB and cutter too much. I honestly think he’s just sort of very down on his curve and that he’s kind of paid lip service to having a change. He wants badly to do well – and works hard, I think – but again, he’s a tinkerer and that’s hurt him.

  278. Yogi Mantle April 8th, 2011 at 11:56 pm

    The talk about strength is misleading. Hughes doesn’t have the arm speed going, strength would be more a function of having endurance to keep pitching at his upper speed levels.

    In your mass of muscles you have slow and fast contracting fibers. If the slow contracting fibers gain more mass (thickness) it can affect the speed of the muscle contractions. This is not the same thing as becoming muscle bound, where the muscles gain too much size and constrict movement, but there is some relation.

    I wonder if Hughes has changed or altered his weight training to where he is lifting heavier weights. If he was lifting more weights he might be experiencing fatigue.

    There are a number of tests that might help find out what is going on with him. An EMG, Nerve Conduction Velocity tests might show is there is a muscular issue.

  279. randy l. April 8th, 2011 at 11:56 pm

    ” Phil does not throw 95- he just doesn’t, except on occasion. He’s generally between 91-93, with some 94?s thrown in. You can’t force a guy to have velocity he doesn’t have”

    betsy-

    i don’t think velocity works the way you think it does. i think a pitcher has to max out with total effort to have a maximum velocity to drop off from when he starts.

    in other words phil has to train sometimes at 96 if he’s going to start at the 91-93 mph range you say phil throws at.

    i think a pitcher who just throws at a set speed and never goes above it will every year lose a little until he’s the 88-89 kind of guy.

    it seems relieving gave phil a velocity spike that carried over into starting last year for a while.

  280. ET April 8th, 2011 at 11:56 pm

    “How is it that Phil Hughes was once a pretty complete pitcher and then all of a sudden became incomplete and needed new pitches?”

    He was never “complete” though… not like he had 3 quality pitches at age 20 (like a Banuelos does, for example). He had a terrific FB/curve combo and a change that had plus potential if it developed. With his pitching aptitude, there was no reason for scouts to think that he wouldn’t develop at least a good, not great one.

    Phil was touted so highly because of his 2 main pitches and the fact that he had the potential to develop a good change as well. It was also thought that he could add a little more velocity as he filled out (that’s probably where the reports of him sitting 94-95 came from… projection, not where he was at that age).

    4 years later… the curve that was once considered one of the best pitches in the minors, has been MIA. The change has not developed at all. The FB probably never got to what it was projected to be.

  281. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 8th, 2011 at 11:57 pm

    “Someone said on here, and it is so true, the Sox vs. Yankees was never such a big deal until recent years because the Sox were dreadful, and for a while so were the Yankees”

    Holy God, talk about totally uninformed! (whoever said that, not you)! It has been an intense rivalry forever!!! It is probably the advent of the internet that has fooled people who really don’t know any better into thinking the rivalry and intensity is new-found.

    Want to know about the rivalry? Here is a quick read. It starts off like this:

    “The Yankees – Red Sox rivalry is one of the oldest, most famous and fiercest rivalries in North American professional sports.[3][5][7][8][9] For over 100 years, Major League Baseball’s Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees of the American League have been intense rivals.[10]”

    I live in RI. NOBODY is going to tell me that the rivalry is relatively new or was never such a big deal until recent years! It’s been a big deal forever. Or at least as long as Babe Ruth was sold to the Yankees!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y.....ox_rivalry

  282. randy l. April 8th, 2011 at 11:58 pm

    pat m -

    don’t forget cb that night too. he threw in a major part of the puzzle.

  283. Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 11:59 pm

    Randy, ok I see what you’re saying…….I guess there are lots of ways to “train” a pitcher. If this is just a reaction to last year’s workload, Phil should be ok velocity wise – next year. If it’s not, then even though the Yankees don’t seem to be doing what you’re suggesting, there still shouldn’t be this sudden drop in not just velocity but apparently life as well – and command. Everything seems to be off with this poor kid.

  284. Against All Odds April 8th, 2011 at 11:59 pm

    # Betsy April 8th, 2011 at 11:46 pm

    Odds, no team is perfect, you know? However, they keep making mistakes with their pitchers. That said, overall, if Joba really does end up being a reliever and Phil ends up being nothing more than a solid pitcher (which isn’t bad, just not what was expected of him), it’s not the Yankees’ fault; this stuff is on the players (on any player – not just Joba/Phil specifically).

    ———————————————————

    True it’s not the Yankees fault if guys settle in to certain roles but when do we reach the point when we say to ourselves that when it comes to developing starting pitchers there is something missing.

  285. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 9th, 2011 at 12:00 am

    Betsy you know a heck of a lot more about him than I do so I will go with what you’ve said. My impression of Phil was the opposite. I saw him as a routine-oriented and regimented kid who was comfortable with his arsenal and only started changing things around when he was told he had to.

    I am still wondering what changed in the Phil Hughes who pitched in Texas (and pitched some really amazing games for the Yankees in the past) and the Phil Hughes who was told he had to develop a new pitch. Where did that come from? If he had the stuff he did to go out there and shut teams down, who in hell decided that he needed to add another pitch? Did that screw up the whole works?

  286. Betsy April 9th, 2011 at 12:01 am

    Oddly, ET, Phil has not increased his velocity as he’s gotten older. I remember Phil saying last year, all the time, that he’d throw harder as the weather heated up – that never happened. He hasn’t had that velocity spike many youngsters have – maybe he peaked early?

  287. Betsy April 9th, 2011 at 12:04 am

    Some guys just mature early ……….possibly Phil in the minors was a man facing boys and now the boys became men.

  288. randy l. April 9th, 2011 at 12:04 am

    pat m-

    why do so many guys in the pga hit the ball so far now?

    the answer is simply that they swing from their asses and don’t pay any attention to that old 80% kind of coaching that pga teachers used to give.

    i believe it’s the same thing with throwing a baseball.

    it takes maximum effort.

    phil is not throwing with maximum effort.

    that’s pretty obvious.

    now maybe he doesn’t feel safe throwing with all he has.

    that’s another issue if that’s the case.

  289. Betsy April 9th, 2011 at 12:07 am

    Odds, I don’t know. A part of me thinks the Yankees have completely overemphasized the change with Phil and de-emphasized the curve. Apparently Eiland had changed his arm slot at one point and then they eventually changed it back. Plus, Phil was hurt two years in a row. I don’t think the Yanks have done a great job with him, but on the other hand I’m not sure Phil has the ability to throw breaking pitches on a consistent basis at this point. He’s almost 25 years old – not old, of course, but he’s not a baby anymore.

  290. igotid88 April 9th, 2011 at 12:09 am

    ET April 8th, 2011 at 11:56 pm
    “How is it that Phil Hughes was once a pretty complete pitcher and then all of a sudden became incomplete and needed new pitches?”

    He was never “complete” though… not like he had 3 quality pitches at age 20 (like a Banuelos does, for example). He had a terrific FB/curve combo and a change that had plus potential if it developed. With his pitching aptitude, there was no reason for scouts to think that he wouldn’t develop at least a good, not great one.

    Phil was touted so highly because of his 2 main pitches and the fact that he had the potential to develop a good change as well. It was also thought that he could add a little more velocity as he filled out (that’s probably where the reports of him sitting 94-95 came from… projection, not where he was at that age).

    4 years later… the curve that was once considered one of the best pitches in the minors, has been MIA. The change has not developed at all. The FB probably never got to what it was projected to be.
    ————————————————————-

    I don’t know if I’m right but wasn’t it the Yankees who made him stop using the curve and made throw other pitches? I remember people here on the board talking about it.

  291. Betsy April 9th, 2011 at 12:09 am

    Trish, I don’t recall Phil ever being told he had to develop a new pitch; he was told he had to develop a changeup. The two lost years hurt, but I have no clue why he should have lost the feel for the curve – except that he has constantly changed the grip. I knew something was wrong after ST last year when he said that his change was his 3rd best pitch.

  292. Betsy April 9th, 2011 at 12:09 am

    Igotid, no – that was the slider, when he was in HS. They taught him the curve and Phil picked it up quickly. He did say at the beginning of last year that the pitch has always blown hot and cold for him.

  293. Yank 97 April 9th, 2011 at 12:11 am

    Buster_ESPN
    On Phil Hughes’s lack of arm strength, Yankees pitching coach Larry Rothschild: there is no remedy. They just have to wait for bounce-back.

  294. randy l. April 9th, 2011 at 12:11 am

    lgy and jerkface-

    what percentage of fastballs did lester and buchholz throw last year ?

    farrel really pushed the fastball in boston and both lester and buchholz seem to have good fastballs.

  295. Against All Odds April 9th, 2011 at 12:14 am

    # Betsy April 9th, 2011 at 12:07 am

    Odds, I don’t know. A part of me thinks the Yankees have completely overemphasized the change with Phil and de-emphasized the curve. Apparently Eiland had changed his arm slot at one point and then they eventually changed it back. Plus, Phil was hurt two years in a row. I don’t think the Yanks have done a great job with him, but on the other hand I’m not sure Phil has the ability to throw breaking pitches on a consistent basis at this point. He’s almost 25 years old – not old, of course, but he’s not a baby anymore.

    ————————————————————

    Yea Phil has definitely gotten away from the curve and has fallen in love with these other pitches. How do you throw 30 cutters….SMH. I mean Mo doesn’t throw that many cutters in two appearances and that’s his main pitch. Hopefully they get it straightened out sooner rather than later because the Yankees needs him this yr and going forward.

  296. Pat M. April 9th, 2011 at 12:16 am

    Randy…..I remember CB that evening of course and I wish he were here because he has a great eye to the not so obvious fine tunement of pitching…..I see exactly what your point is about airing it out and I see your point as the times he pitched in March not once did he really had gitty-up or the late movement that seperates him from an average starter….Along with great command….I just think his arm hasn’t reached it’s true level in strength….

  297. igotid88 April 9th, 2011 at 12:17 am

    Betsy April 9th, 2011 at 12:09 am
    Igotid, no – that was the slider, when he was in HS. They taught him the curve and Phil picked it up quickly. He did say at the beginning of last year that the pitch has always blown hot and cold for him.
    ——————————-

    okay I knew it was something. But I think they did change his curve from 12-6 to a power curve.

  298. Yank 97 April 9th, 2011 at 12:17 am

    Did Hughes really lose that much of a feel for his curve that it went from such a dominant pitch that made him the top prospect he was into a pitch that “blows hot and cold”?

    Very strange. I understand, with all he had to go through over the last couple of years, that he hasn’t had time to perfect it that much. But you would think he’d do anything possible to get back the pitch that made him who he was in the minors.

    Using the cutter as a substitute for an off-speed pitch is like eating strawberry ice cream as a substitute for real strawberries and hoping to get the same nutritional value.

  299. 4 NYY April 9th, 2011 at 12:17 am

    You develop arm strength by throwing the F B . If it’s there, it’ll show itself in time.

  300. Betsy April 9th, 2011 at 12:18 am

    Odds, WAY too many cutters – and he gives up so many HRs on them. On the other hand, what have the PC and catchers been doing allowing him to throw that all the time?

  301. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 9th, 2011 at 12:19 am

    Well no matter what happens, good job by Brian Cashman getting Freddy and Bartolo. I remember TYanksfan saying she heard parents of the little Yanks complaining about the “has beens” pitching, why didn’t they just use the kids. Today’s game gave you that answer, if you really needed it. There’s no substitute for major league experience, when you are in a situation like the Yanks were in today. Thank God that Bartolo was waiting in the pen. I’m not a huge fan of Kevin Millwood, but I am damned glad we have him too.

  302. Betsy April 9th, 2011 at 12:21 am

    Igotid, that power curve came in ST 2009 and I remember people raving about it……….Then during the season, I remember people here saying they couldn’t understand why the curve was so ineffective. Not sure really what is at work

  303. Strike One April 9th, 2011 at 12:24 am

    Hughes has been awful since June of last year. He was lucky to win 18 games because of some insane run support.

    Poor Joba being banished to the bullpen and now he is going to have to watch Hughes and Garcia throwing 88 mph meatballs all year long…. This is bad baseball karma for Cashman the baseball gods were watching.

    Looks like Hughes cant handle the workload of a major league starter year in year out.

    Nova will become a better big league starter than Hughes.

  304. TD213 April 9th, 2011 at 12:24 am

    But it’s not like the curve he has currently is a good pitch anyway – so why would Martin/Rothschild make him throw it? Chicken and the egg theory— he doesn’t trust his curve or his curve is ineffective, yet the only way to trust it and improve it is to throw it in game situations and get comfortable with it. That’s what the minors are for…

    With Burnett and his change… his change is very good. He would be a complete pitcher if he incorporated it more into his arsenal, but he just refuses to throw it. Martin can force him to throw it because it is a very effective pitch. With Hughes, they probably want him to go with what works, not experimentation.

    Thus, forcing Burnett to throw his change is not akin to forcing Hughes to throw his curve. One is already an above average MLB pitch, the other is inconsistent and was not very good last year.

  305. Against All Odds April 9th, 2011 at 12:25 am

    # Betsy April 9th, 2011 at 12:18 am

    Odds, WAY too many cutters – and he gives up so many HRs on them. On the other hand, what have the PC and catchers been doing allowing him to throw that all the time?

    ——————————————————

    Very well said Betsy after the first start shouldn’t the theme have been to decrease the amount of times he throws the cutter.

  306. m April 9th, 2011 at 12:29 am

    Pat M,

    Is there something with Phil’s follow through? He’s not finishing off his pitches.

  307. Betsy April 9th, 2011 at 12:30 am

    TD, then what do the Yankees do? Short of sending him to the minors, he’s going to have to work on and throw these pitches up here.

    Odds, I remember even in Phil’s great game at Fenway last year, Eiland had to go out and remind him not to get cutter happy. He’s stubborn – in a different way than Joba, but very stubborn just the same and he admitted he was early in ST. That’s something that’s on him.

  308. Betsy April 9th, 2011 at 12:31 am

    I thought I heard from Phil (today? after last start?) that he was long-arming it – and that it wasn’t good. I’ve always thought he had kind of an odd motion, with the way he kind of co cks his arm back and throws it.

  309. Against All Odds April 9th, 2011 at 12:32 am

    Strike One April 9th, 2011 at 12:24 am

    Poor Joba being banished to the bullpen and now he is going to have to watch Hughes and Garcia throwing 88 mph meatballs all year long…. This is bad baseball karma for Cashman the baseball gods were watching.

    ——————————————————–

    To be hair Garcia hasn’t pitched yet so it’s too early to say that he’ll be serving up meat balls all yr long plus if he struggles he’ll be cut.

    Joba seems to have adjusted to being in the pen. Even if he is bothered by not getting a shot he won’t rock the boat

  310. Betsy April 9th, 2011 at 12:36 am

    http://blogs.courant.com/baseb.....o-lov.html

    When Mike Mussina was struggling to find his fastball, he would often try to put more “oomph” in his delivery to get a few more MPH.

    Joe Torre often admonished him, “love your fastball. Whatever it is.”

    Eventually, Mussina learned to throw his fastball, even if it was no longer very fast, with the same conviction he did as a youngster. He spotted it perfectly and he went out a 20-game winner in 2008.

    Andy Pettitte, too, when his elbow was killing him and he was throwing 82 MPH for Houston, got hitters out by locating. “Can you believe this?” he asked Roger Clemens when he came off a mound at Shea Stadium. “Yes,” Clemens told him, because he was locating. When Pettitte returned from surgery, he was a better pitcher, able to win no matter what the radar gun was saying. David Wells, when his back was killing him, could get hitters out with an 82 MPH “heater.”

    This should all be good news for Phil Hughes who, for whatever reason, has misplaced his fastball this spring. He’s throwing 88-89 MPH instead of 93 or 94 and neither he, nor anything else seems to know why. But until he finds it, he is going to have to learn to pitch with what he has.

    “It seems like he’s overthrowing, trying to find a couple of extra MPH,” catcher Russell Martin said. “He needs to stick to the game plan and make pitches.”
    *********

    Whose job is it to see that he sticks to the game plan? I see Martin is from the school of very tough love.

  311. Against All Odds April 9th, 2011 at 12:37 am

    fair not hair*

  312. Betsy April 9th, 2011 at 12:37 am

    By that ?, I mean – it’s Martin’s job to make sure Phil sticks to his game plan, not scold him in the media.

  313. Against All Odds April 9th, 2011 at 12:39 am

    Martin scolded him?

  314. Betsy April 9th, 2011 at 12:41 am

    Odds, that’s how I took that comment. Martin is the catcher – if he can force AJ to throw change ups, then he can force Phil to stick to a game plan, whatever that is.

  315. West Coast Yankee Fan April 9th, 2011 at 12:43 am

    Trisha – Rothschild hasn’t worked wonders with anyone yet. In case you haven’t heard, the Yankees have only played seven games this season, but just in case that is enough of a body of work for you to pass judgment – the Yankees are 11th out of 14 teams in the AL in team ERA.

  316. m April 9th, 2011 at 12:44 am

    He’s not scolding Phil. But he’s not the one out there with the paddle, so it’s easier said than done. Phil’s just trying to grab something instead of waiting for his paddle to float back to him.

  317. Betsy April 9th, 2011 at 12:47 am

    Whatever Martin’s doing, as the catcher and a veteran one at that, he’s the one that can force Phil to stick to whatever game plan they have.

  318. m April 9th, 2011 at 12:47 am

    *without the paddle

  319. Pat M. April 9th, 2011 at 12:48 am

    Two different things Betsy…..My “short arming it” refers to his follow thru extension and not his break away arm action….blake mentioned it during the game thread so when I went back to look at the video, blake was right….In the 2nd inning it seemed to me that he was aiming his pitches which in turn restricts full follow through extension…….As I stated several times I lack the trained eye to pick up anything other than the basics……I could get by as a HS pitching coach as needed but even at that I was not in my element….CB & Randy are the one’s here with those credentials

  320. Betsy April 9th, 2011 at 12:49 am

    I didn’t mean to make this about Martin – I thought the article was interesting. Others have brought up the possibility that Phil has neglected his FB in favor of his change, for instance, but I can’t even criticize that because he needs his breaking pitches. He has to be able to find a way to develop those pitches without losing his FB; it’s odd that he can’t do that.

  321. Against All Odds April 9th, 2011 at 12:49 am

    Good night everyone take care

  322. Betsy April 9th, 2011 at 12:51 am

    Pat M, thanks for the explanation. I always read, here and other places, how sound Phil’s mechanics are, but sometimes he loses them -and badly. If his arm is fatigued, though, wouldn’t that explain mechanical difficulties?

  323. Betsy April 9th, 2011 at 12:51 am

    Night all!

  324. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 9th, 2011 at 12:56 am

    WC, sorry just not good enough. In case you weren’t paying close attention, both AJ and Joba were serious question marks coming into ST. You are likely the only one who needs to put your fingers into the wounds in order to be convinced. For the rest of us, watching what Rothschild has done with AJ and Joba tells enough of a story for us to know that the changes didn’t drop out of the sky.

    And as someone else pointed out to you so aptly earlier on, the only pitchers who are struggling right now are Hughes and Logan.

    Surely you didn’t think that Soriano’s aberrant performance and what it did to his and the team ERA was going to past muster in your “11th out of 14 teams in the AL in team ERA” did you? Or what Logan has done to date?

    His job, and it was a big one, was to straighten out our #2 pitcher and the “5th-inning has been” or whatever nasty term you kept using to refer to Joba. Funny that the 5th inning zero has become the 7th inning savior. Of course that had everything to do with your prediction about Joba’s future and nothing to do with Rothschild.

    Your like a dog on a bone when you want to front for a position, and you don’t care how weak the argument is, you’ll build it on a house of cards and even pay to put shutters on the windows.

    You were wrong about Joba. You are wrong about Rothschild. But don’t let the proof get in the way of you holding the line on your position.

  325. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 9th, 2011 at 12:58 am

    Good night Betsy and AAO!

    :)

  326. Pat M. April 9th, 2011 at 1:00 am

    A Month from now these concerns about Hughes will be a distant memory once his arm strength returns……

  327. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 9th, 2011 at 1:02 am

    To Ivan Nova for the win, Peter!

    Onward and upward.

    Night all. Let those who are paid the big bucks figure out what’s wrong with pitcher #3.

    :)

  328. West Coast Yankee Fan April 9th, 2011 at 1:04 am

    I’m smart enough to realize you don’t anoint a new pitching coach as a saint in spring training before one pitch was thrown. Also, the only change Joba made was parting his hands at his waist, a change he made on his own, at home, before Rothschild was on the scene.

    I was right about Joba, as were many others. He failed as a starter and he failed as an eighth inning guy. That’s a fact and the Yankees management think so to. If Joba turns it around and becomes a consistent pitcher at a high level, great.

    And imagine, I just disagreed with you without insulting you.

  329. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 9th, 2011 at 1:04 am

    “A Month from now these concerns about Hughes will be a distant memory once his arm strength returns……”

    I believe you. In the meantime, let him work it out in Tampa and have Bartolo Colon take his spot in the rotation.

    I predicted 102 wins for the Yankees and don’t want Phil’s woodshedding in the meantime to get in the way of me winning the Ritter Sports Bars that I will end up giving to myself!

    :)

    Night Pat M. Don’t let WC get away with anything while I’m gone!

  330. GreenBeret7 April 9th, 2011 at 1:07 am

    Pat M. April 9th, 2011 at 1:00 am
    A Month from now these concerns about Hughes will be a distant memory once his arm strength returns……

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Pat, you and Randy are the board experts on pitchers, or, more than anyone else on here. Can you tell whether Hughes is gripping the ball a little bit tighter now and since last june? Not saying it’s nerves, but, just choking off the speed by adding more pressure on the ball than he intends to.

  331. West Coast Yankee Fan April 9th, 2011 at 1:08 am

    I agree with Pat M, that’s exactly right about Hughes. Being reactionary after a couple of poor starts isn’t the way to go in my opinion. His arm strength will return; they will figure it out. There are too many baseball professionals, trainers, strength and conditioning coaches, etc., involved in helping him through this – whatever it is, dead arm, mechanics, etc. If he’s not hurt, there is no reason for a healthy 24 year old to just lose that much off his fastball.

  332. Pat M. April 9th, 2011 at 1:15 am

    GB….You make a good point about the death grip consequences……You know as much about pitching if not more than I do….I was a scattered arm shortstop who was moved to second….I did learn a little while attending mound conversations…The one thing I remembered is to keep your mouth shut until Rick Dempsey says otherwise……Tough buzzard on the field, funny guy and quite a character away from the park….

  333. Pat M. April 9th, 2011 at 1:16 am

    CB knows pitching

  334. igotid88 April 9th, 2011 at 1:19 am

    Strike One April 9th, 2011 at 12:24 am
    Hughes has been awful since June of last year. He was lucky to win 18 games because of some insane run support.

    Poor Joba being banished to the bullpen and now he is going to have to watch Hughes and Garcia throwing 88 mph meatballs all year long…. This is bad baseball karma for Cashman the baseball gods were watching.

    Looks like Hughes cant handle the workload of a major league starter year in year out.

    Nova will become a better big league starter than Hughes.
    —————————————————

    He wasn’t awful. He was off and on. Especially how they messed up his rythm by skipping him here and there. Although they had to and he’s had some bad luck on a couple of games.

  335. GreenBeret7 April 9th, 2011 at 1:21 am

    Pat, Leiter brought it up earlier when he was demonstrating a cutter and talking about finger position and finger pressure. Surely if he felt any discomfort, he’d be telling somebody. Perhaps it is the cutter causing the confusion in his grip. not sure if going back to the slider and junking the cutter is best, but, that certainly doesn’t appear to be the pitch that works for him.

  336. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 9th, 2011 at 1:22 am

    “I’m smart enough to realize you don’t anoint a new pitching coach as a saint in spring training before one pitch was thrown.”

    He deserved annointing for his pitching philosophy if for nothing else. But I believe pitches were thrown before he was officially annointed. Personally I don’t care if you think they had to be thrown in regular season baseball. And they have been.

    You started it with your ridiculous monologue about being a bit amused about Rothschild being annointed and where were the fans now who annointed him. Because you didn’t buy into it, you set up an entire straw argument about what people would be saying if Hughes pitched well! AGAIN – Hughes wasn’t the problem coming into ST. Joba and AJ were, AJ especially. Hughes’s problem doesn’t make Rothschild any less the bomb for what he’s done with AJ and Joba especially. And pally, maybe you didn’t pay close enough attention to the extras that Rothschild brought to the table, but those definitely went into his cannonization.

    ***************

    Don’t bait and switch because that doesn’t work with me. You were so arrogant about Joba that you had him as trade bait. Management didn’t quite see it that way.

    You relegated him to nothing better than a 5th inning guy. You took shots and said it so many times that I’m surprised that your mouth didn’t stay frozen in that position.

    You were totally wrong about what Joba would be to the team this season and where he’d be pitching. Your moronic mantra about him did you in. So please don’t try to turn things around now and say that management agrees with you yada yada yada. You weren’t simply pleading the case that Joba wouldn’t be in the rotation. YOU HAD HIM AS A 5TH INNING PITCHER.

    You got that one wrong too. Admit it or don’t. But it’s there on the record for everyone to see.

    There are different ways to be insulting WC. Because you didn’t use the word “losers” doesn’t meant that you weren’t being insulting in your “I think it is a bit amusing” post.

    Truly, I need some rest. It’s been a long day and night for me, and I don’t mean just Yankee baseball.

  337. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 9th, 2011 at 1:25 am

    Night all.

  338. GreenBeret7 April 9th, 2011 at 1:27 am

    What a shock. a 2 hour rain delay in San Diego. Maybe they forgot where they keep the tarp.

  339. GreenBeret7 April 9th, 2011 at 1:28 am

    Have a great night, Trisha.

  340. Pat M. April 9th, 2011 at 1:30 am

    Good night night people and good morning to The Morning Population…..I’m certain there was enough banter tonight to jump start the coffee group….Then of course there’s the print media who will throw all sorts of material to debate…..

  341. GreenBeret7 April 9th, 2011 at 1:33 am

    Have a great evening, Pat. Early morning on the links or watching the Masters?

  342. JobaTipsHisCap April 9th, 2011 at 1:44 am

    Hughes can still pitch ‘well’ against mediocre teams, but it would be foolish to expect him pitch well consistently against top teams. not even close. He still can eat up some innings in regular season.

    Sux 1-6, solo win from Yanks.

  343. Jerkface April 9th, 2011 at 1:45 am

    Lester threw 50% fastballs, Buchholz 55%, Hughes 63% in 2010

    Fangraphs player pages, didn’t include cutters (lester threw a lot)

  344. JobaTipsHisCap April 9th, 2011 at 2:03 am

    $200+M cannot buy a decent SP rotation.

  345. West Coast Yankee Fan April 9th, 2011 at 3:03 am

    Trisha – 6th inning guy not 5th. There is no such thing as a 5th inning relief pitcher’s role. If you are going to ridicule yourself by pretending to know anything about baseball – at least get your facts right. Oh heck, why should you start now. Being snotty and acerbic has always been enough. Dismissed.

  346. MTU April 9th, 2011 at 6:49 am

    Reinforcements have arrived at the front.

    Good morning early birds.

    Picking up on last night’s theme of Phil’s missing velocity.

    The questions I have are at least 2-fold :

    1 Why doesn’t anyone seem to be able to decide what has caused
    Phil’s lack of arm strength ?

    2 Why does the PC say that there is nothing one can do about it ?

    With regard to question 1 I posed above, Is it really that mysterious ?

    With respect to point # 2. Really ? There is NOTHING you can do to remedy it. Does that make sense ?

    Last thing I would say is that Phil should NOT be allowed to work this out in the Majors especially in light of the points I made above.

    He needs to rehab, or go to AAA. It’s not fair to him or the team.

    Doesn’t make sense to just keep sending him out there and hope that magically at some point his missing velocity will just return.

    Maybe I’m wrong but at this moment I am not content with the way this is being handled.

    And if this is the current level of knowledge I think somebody needs to adress it for the sake of the future.

    My 2 cents to start the day.

  347. MTU April 9th, 2011 at 6:52 am

    There is no need to leave Phil out there to twist in the wind when we have Bartolo as an option.

    One more start max. If the missing velocity does not begin to return in a significant way then it’s off to rehab, or to AAA for Phil.

  348. MTU April 9th, 2011 at 6:57 am

    And last but not least, if the Yankees are not doing yearly baseline arm strength testing they should be.

    It’s not a panacea but it would give them something “objective” to go by instead of everyone seemingly throwing their collective hands in the air and saying “I don’t know what’s going on beats the heck out of me.”

    Ya think ?

    ;)

  349. MTU April 9th, 2011 at 6:59 am

    Go Ivan.

    Bail us out of this mess for now.

    Looks like you might have to step it up for a while.

  350. MTU April 9th, 2011 at 7:14 am

    It sounds to me like the Yankees are expecting Phil to learn how to deal with pitching with diminished velocity “on the fly”.

    By locating more perfectly and using his secondary pitches more.

    Great in theory but he has not been locating well, and his secondary pitches are not developed enough to compensate IMO.

    This is not analogous to a situation like Mussina pitching backwards
    to win his 20. Mussina had tremendous secondary stuff, and pinpoint control. Not the case here.

  351. MTU April 9th, 2011 at 7:35 am

    And by the way Mr. Rothschild, if you don’t think anything can be done to help Hughes gain arm strength back you might want to take a look at this :

    http://www.athletesperformance.....e-florida/

    Because they CAN help.

    ;)

  352. brownies April 9th, 2011 at 7:40 am

    That stadium and city is a major dump. Colon should start for phil next time around. C’mon joe give Phil a break here.

  353. RadioKev April 9th, 2011 at 7:45 am

    Hughes isn’t going to pitch like Mussina did in 2008, because Hughes is young and he should have his good fastball.

    He’s going to work on finding it, not pitching backwards and dealing with it. Not even worth comparison. He’s a young pitcher dealing with an inning hangover. This happens often in the MLB.

  354. MTU April 9th, 2011 at 7:47 am

    Kev-

    Maybe so but the place to work that out isn’t on the mound in the middle of a baseball season.

    1 more start max. If there isn’t significant improvement he should be
    rehabbed at a place like API, or sent to AAA.

  355. Mike_Boston April 9th, 2011 at 7:59 am

    I’m not ready to take Hughes out of the rotation but the way Colon’s throwing you have to think about it. He at least needs to be able to shadow him for the next start. Colon was painting out there. By leaps and bounds he was the best pitcher of the day yesterday.
    I’m done with Logan, he’s garbage.

  356. MTU April 9th, 2011 at 8:00 am

    Mike-

    Just out of curiosity. When would you be ?

  357. MTU April 9th, 2011 at 8:03 am

    New thread ==>

  358. Mike_Boston April 9th, 2011 at 8:03 am

    I give Phil one more start…if he gets pounded again you have to send him down or DL him.

  359. MTU April 9th, 2011 at 8:05 am

    Mike-

    OK then. It looks like we are on the same page.

  360. Sheldon Runck August 22nd, 2014 at 10:06 pm

    Welcome to Studio Plazma, Visit us on:

Leave a comment below


Sponsored by:
 

Search

    Advertisement

    Follow

    Mobile

    Read The LoHud Yankees Blog on the go by navigating to the blog on your smartphone or mobile device's browser. No apps or downloads are required.

Advertisement

Place an ad

Call (914) 694-3581