The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Today’s Lineup

Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Apr 16, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Jeter SS
Swisher RF
Teixeira 1b
Rodriguez 3b
Cano 2b
Jones LF
Posada DH
Granderson CF
Molina C

Pitching: Garcia

 
 

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132 Responses to “Today’s Lineup”

  1. Carl April 16th, 2011 at 11:20 am

    3 lineups

  2. Tar April 16th, 2011 at 11:21 am

    I pick door number 1!

  3. Against All Odds April 16th, 2011 at 11:22 am

    # Carl April 16th, 2011 at 11:20 am

    3 lineups

    ———————-

    hoping for triple the offense

  4. blake April 16th, 2011 at 11:23 am

    No gardner again….I really don’t think its full platoon time yet after 12 games. Go Freddy!

  5. joeman April 16th, 2011 at 11:24 am

    Seattle is in a free fall…should be out of it by the end of May..just thinking

  6. joeman April 16th, 2011 at 11:25 am

    # blake April 16th, 2011 at 11:23 am

    No gardner again….I really don’t think its full platoon time yet after 12 games. Go Freddy!
    ———————————-
    I hope it is

  7. Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 11:26 am

    John Harper an article in the Daily News about how the cutter damages arms – Jim Abbott, even Andy. I hope the Yankees read it – even Klapisch wrote about it. The overuse of the cutter is becoming a problem.

  8. Tar April 16th, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Blake

    I hope not. Gardner needs to work through it.

    How long before Jesus forces their hand?

  9. joeman April 16th, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Give up what to pry King away from Sea

  10. Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 11:27 am

    If the Yankees have to learn something from John Harper we’re doomed.

  11. MTU April 16th, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Blake-

    I don’t think it is any kind of a platoon.

    Jones needs the AB’s and we had 2 tough lefties in a row.

    The bench time might allow GGBG to do a reset and get it going when he returns.

  12. Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 11:29 am

    It may not be a platoon in the strictest sense, but it’s constructively a platoon right now.

  13. Against All Odds April 16th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    # Tar April 16th, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Blake

    I hope not. Gardner needs to work through it.

    How long before Jesus forces their hand?

    —————————————————-

    6 more dps and he’ll be here before the game ends lol

  14. West Coast Yankee Fan April 16th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    Updated weather:

    1 pm
    49° F
    Precip:
    40%

    2 pm
    49° F
    Precip:
    40%

    3 pm
    49° F
    Precip:
    60%

    4 pm
    50° F
    Precip:
    60%

  15. Bo knows April 16th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    It’s really weird, Gardner is coming out of his crouch as he swings and is late on all pitches. It’s all about timing and moving parts.

  16. Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    Rich, sorry, that’s a silly comment. He didn’t just invent this theory that cutters hurt arms……………and it wasn’t just Harper, either. Many baseball people think the cutter is not easy on the arm and can cause damage.

  17. joeman April 16th, 2011 at 11:31 am

    # MTU April 16th, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Blake-

    I don’t think it is any kind of a platoon.

    Jones needs the AB’s and we had 2 tough lefties in a row.

    The bench time might allow GGBG to do a reset and get it going when he returns.
    ———————-
    don’t think these lefties are that tough….if Gardner was hitting he would be playing no matter

  18. Against All Odds April 16th, 2011 at 11:31 am

    # joeman April 16th, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Give up what to pry King away from Sea

    ————————————————–

    That’s going to cost a lot

  19. Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 11:31 am

    Betsy

    Harper’s or mine? Come on, the Yankees know the potential effects of a cutter.

  20. Melk Man April 16th, 2011 at 11:32 am

    “Updated weather:”

    Better have a lead after 5.

  21. Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 11:32 am

    The Mariners can’t trade Felix without getting established young veterans in return, especially to the Yankees.

  22. Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 11:33 am

    Rich, believe me – I am no fan of John Harper’s, but I don’t like the overuse of the cutter at all – and Klapisch said the same thing (after speaking to baseball people) that Rick Pederson did. Mo’s cutter is different- it’s natural and no one can throw the pitch like he can. Even if you think that the cutter is no more damaging to the arm than any other pitch, the overuse of that pitch is still disturbing – and the Yankees don’t seem to see that.

  23. joeman April 16th, 2011 at 11:33 am

    # West Coast Yankee Fan April 16th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    Updated weather:

    1 pm
    49° F
    Precip:
    40%

    2 pm
    49° F
    Precip:
    40%

    3 pm
    49° F
    Precip:
    60%

    4 pm
    50° F
    Precip:
    60%
    ———————————-
    looking at radar not looking good

  24. Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 11:33 am

    And if the cutter has such effects, why was Hughes throwing 92/94 v. Tex last October but all of the sudden lost it while on vacation?

  25. Bronx Jeers April 16th, 2011 at 11:34 am

    This photo will take your mind off 6 DPs

    http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....-39053.jpg

  26. joeman April 16th, 2011 at 11:34 am

    # Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 11:32 am

    The Mariners can’t trade Felix without getting established young veterans in return, especially to the Yankees.
    ————————————-
    would you start by putting Gardner in a deal

  27. BoJo April 16th, 2011 at 11:34 am

    Bets–
    Thx for the article.

  28. Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 11:36 am

    joeman

    They can have Gardner, Russell Martin, Joba, and stuff.

  29. joeman April 16th, 2011 at 11:36 am

    # Bronx Jeers April 16th, 2011 at 11:34 am

    This photo will take your mind off 6 DPs

    http://www.boston.com/sports/b…..-39053.jpg
    ———————————————-
    really have to start worrying about what Bos is doing, with their problems this team should be farther ahead

  30. Melk Man April 16th, 2011 at 11:36 am

    “The Mariners can’t trade Felix without getting established young veterans in return, especially to the Yankees.”

    Hughes?

  31. Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Pre-whatever it is that he is experiencing now, Hughes, MM.

    Yes, that’s the kind of player I’d think they would want as the centerpiece.

  32. BoJo April 16th, 2011 at 11:37 am

    I’m placing an ad on Craigslist’s Lost and Found section for Hughes fastball.

  33. BD (Boston Dave) April 16th, 2011 at 11:38 am

    “John Harper an article in the Daily News about how the cutter damages arms – Jim Abbott, even Andy. I hope the Yankees read it – even Klapisch wrote about it. The overuse of the cutter is becoming a problem.”

    ——-

    Don’t tell Mariano. We need him for a few more years!

  34. joeman April 16th, 2011 at 11:38 am

    # Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 11:36 am

    joeman

    They can have Gardner, Russell Martin, Joba, and stuff.
    ——————————————————————–
    LOL…how about starting with Montero and Gardner…

  35. Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Rich, how about the fact that it has long term effects on an arm and he’s just feeling it now?

  36. Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 11:39 am

    BD, Mo is different and that’s what Klapisch’s article pointed out – it’s also what Pederson pointed out a few days ago.

    Bojo, you’re welcome!

  37. BD (Boston Dave) April 16th, 2011 at 11:39 am

    p.s.

    Lester throws the cutter quite a bit. It’s fine with me if he wears down soon.

  38. MTU April 16th, 2011 at 11:40 am

    It’s true that not every player loves the roar of the crowd but Felix is toiling away for nothing in Seattle.

    Lot’s of luck with that.

    You’d think he’d be a little discontented at their total lack of competitiveness.

    He’s going nowhere fast out there.

  39. Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 11:40 am

    “LOL…how about starting with Montero and Gardner”

    They didn’t want Montero before. Some Yankee fans love Martin. He’s still young and relatively cheap. Why not include him?

    Just not Banuelos or Montero.

  40. Tom in N.J. April 16th, 2011 at 11:40 am

    I’ve seen it written here, by both Pat M and Randy, I think it was them, that Hughes’ arm strength issue is due to the fact he spent all spring training working on his off-speed stuff and neglected his FB/arm strength. That makes more sense than the cutter theory.

  41. Against All Odds April 16th, 2011 at 11:40 am

    # Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Pre-whatever it is that he is experiencing now, Hughes, MM.

    Yes, that’s the kind of player I’d think they would want as the centerpiece.

    ———————————————-

    Yea Hughes is a guy they would be interested in based on him being young and cost effective.

  42. joeman April 16th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Hughes,Gardner & Montero for King & Suzuki…little keeper fantasy baseball

  43. blake April 16th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    MTU,

    probably not….we’ll see. I just think he needs to play to work out the issues….his timing is off and he’s still adjusting to his new swing. Only way to resolve that is to play.

  44. Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 11:42 am

    “Rich, how about the fact that it has long term effects on an arm and he’s just feeling it now?”

    Betsy

    Two things:

    1) It has been a long time in Hughes’ (or is it Hughes’s) case.
    2) The Yankees say it’s not physical, so unless they are lying…

  45. Bo knows April 16th, 2011 at 11:42 am

    The change up rears it’s ugly head again for the Yankees. Anybody with a CU, good night. Those HRs come at a price. Watching Jones lollypop out in the OF, is really irritating. Teix back at the Mendoza line.

  46. Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Edit; hasn’t

  47. Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 11:44 am

    http://www.thecompletepitcher......locity.htm

  48. Tar April 16th, 2011 at 11:44 am

    “Gardner is coming out of his crouch as he swings and is late on all pitches”

    I agree Gardner is swinging late.

    Is this a case of him trying too hard to see a lot of pitches? Which now that the league has adjusted to him is just putting him in a hole.

    I think he has been reading Jerk and LGY too much and has fallen in love with the OBP stat. :wink:

    Seriously IMO he needs to go up looking to be aggressive, and not just for a walk.

  49. LGY April 16th, 2011 at 11:44 am

    More lineup changes in Boston! But Ellsbury remained at the bottom :(

    Lowrie SS Pedroia 2B Gonzalez 1B Youkilis 3B Ortiz DH Cameron RF Varitek C McDonald LF Ellsbury CF

  50. BTX April 16th, 2011 at 11:44 am

    PeteAbe: #RedSox: Lowrie SS, Pedroia 2B, Gonzalez 1B, Youkilis 3B, Ortiz DH, Cameron RF, Varitek C, McDonald LF, Ellsbury CF

  51. trisha - true pinstriped blue April 16th, 2011 at 11:45 am

    Won’t be around for the game, so

    GO CHIEF!!!

    GO YANKEES!!!

    GO JAYS!!!

    :)

  52. blake April 16th, 2011 at 11:45 am

    if the Mariners decide to trade Felix then basically they are saying that they aren’t close to competing and are shifting towards the future….therefore they’ll likely want prospects with no service time in return….that isn’t Hughes. They’ll want Banuleos or Betances in the deal.

  53. Against All Odds April 16th, 2011 at 11:45 am

    Crawford grabs some pine

  54. Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 11:46 am

    That’s another thing. I get that Phil’s lack of arm strength could possibly come from not focusing on his FB enough, but how on earth is he supposed to improve his other pitches – pitches he badly needs – without working on them?

  55. LGY April 16th, 2011 at 11:46 am

    Not enough team control years left for Hughes to be attractive to the Mariners.

  56. Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 11:47 am

    It’s tough to sell your fans on the meme that you are still a credible franchise when your only return is prospects with no service time.

  57. Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 11:47 am

    “Not enough team control years left for Hughes to be attractive to the Mariners.”

    The Mariners aren’t a poor franchise.

  58. blake April 16th, 2011 at 11:48 am

    Rich,

    true but if they really want to rebuild then that’s what they should ask for (like the Royals did with Greinke and the Padres did with Gonzalez). Doesn’t do them much good to trade for Hughes and then have him leave via free agency in 3 years when they are starting to turn it around.

  59. Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 11:49 am

    Rich, they’d be lying if Phil was feeling pain and they said that it wasn’t physical…………this would be different. It’s odd that they classified this as a dead arm when the classic dead arm period doesn’t last for this long. Phil said his arm is lifeless, dead………..It’s technically a dead arm, but not really, lol.

    M’s wouldn’t want Phil now, so it’s moot, but you guys are right- he’s too close to FA. On the other hand, Phil’s parents and family are on the west coast – he could very well find it very pleasant out there.

  60. blake April 16th, 2011 at 11:49 am

    the mariners aren’t a poor franchise but they have a history of big names not wanting to stay there for whatever reason….aside from Ichiro.

  61. Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 11:50 am

    Rich, that’s true – it hasn’t been a LONG time for Phil and the cutter, but he’s used it a lot, more than even other pitchers who throw cutters as part of their repertoire

  62. Gary April 16th, 2011 at 11:51 am

    Has anybody else had the webpage acting up today?

  63. Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 11:51 am

    blake

    First, if I was running the Mariners, I wouldn’t trade Felix under any circumstances, but if somehow I did trade him, I would want a mix of players like Hughes (before the current issues) and the Banuelos types. If I ran the Yankees, however, I wouldn’t trade Banuelos, no matter what.

  64. Bo knows April 16th, 2011 at 11:51 am

    I don’t remember, ever, batters coming up as they’re swinging. It destroys any weight transfer and eliminate all big muscle kinetic energy from the coil. Gardner has a totally disconnected swing at this point. Long is probably beating him about the head and shoulders as we speak.

  65. BoJo April 16th, 2011 at 11:52 am

    A couple of days ago, there was a discussion about acquiring Jered Weaver, and I believe Pat M said Weaver wanted to stay in LA. Here is an interesting article on that:

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....eaver.html

  66. blake April 16th, 2011 at 11:52 am

    Crawford needed a day off….he’s pressing badly. He’s not a great fit for Boston and he’s not worth 20 million per but he’s also much better than he’s playing now.

  67. BoJo April 16th, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 11:44 am
    http://www.thecompletepitcher……locity.htm
    ______________
    Thx Rich! I’m going to start working out right away!

  68. MTU April 16th, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Blake-

    I understand but GGBG is probably pressing a bit.

    A few days to cool his jets might do him some good.

  69. Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 11:56 am

    We really need to develop pitchers that are going to be cornerstones of the franchise instead of constantly depending or hoping for some kid stud to be available.

  70. blake April 16th, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Rich,

    It would just depend on what I could get and where the organization is heading.

    Felix is the type of pitcher you can’t find…you could argue that you can find all the other pieces of a successful team but will never find another one of him…the counter argument to that however is will you ever find those pieces and will you be able to do it before his contract is up?

    The Mariners are terrible, they are nowhere close to competing for a playoff spot…what they have to decide is if they believe they will be before Felix’s contract is up….if the answer is no then really the wisest move would be to trade him for a king’s ransom of prospects and then use his salary to fill the remainder of the team…..they could greatly expedite the process by doing that.

    I think a lot of whether he’s dealt depends on Jack Z’s job status….if he’s secure then he could make that decision to go ahead and rebuild, if he isn’t then there is no way he could trade him.

  71. BoJo April 16th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 11:56 am
    We really need to develop pitchers that are going to be cornerstones of the franchise instead of constantly depending or hoping for some kid stud to be available.
    ______________
    QFT

  72. blake April 16th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    MTU,

    that’s possible also…he may be working with Long as well over these 2 days.

  73. Triple Short of a Cycle April 16th, 2011 at 11:59 am

    Betsy,

    What little hope I have in Cash has come down to Banuelos and Betances. If they turn out to be busts then I don’t think there is much reason for keeping him here

  74. YsGuy April 16th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    everything is what it is till its not. its a platoon today, if gardner starts hitting, it wont be a platoon, if he doesnt start hitting, jones will be the LF.

    garcia/nova/colon are starters now, if they struggle it could be noesi, pendlton and brackman later.

    its not like gardner wont face another lefty, but i think the idea of molina/gardner back to back wasnt very appealing.

  75. BoJo April 16th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    MTU April 16th, 2011 at 11:55 am
    Blake-

    I understand but GGBG is probably pressing a bit.

    A few days to cool his jets might do him some good.
    _________________
    QFT BTW IIRC GGBG IMO was in TBSOHL

  76. Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    Bojo, the wave of the future is teams locking up their promising pitchers – not all of these kids will be aces, but they can still be good, reliable pitchers. It’s going to be harder and harder to acquire these types of pitchers.

  77. Tom in N.J. April 16th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    I’m in the minority, but, I don’t want Felix Hernandez.

  78. Gary April 16th, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    Crawford is pressing, but then again so are a few of the Yanks. There is alot of pressure now on the offense based on the pitching. Nova and Robertson went out there and in one inning stunk up the place and there went the ballgame. Even with the DP’s we still would have had a shot. The last WP with 2 outs was really a killer.

  79. Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    Triple, while I don’t think the Yankees are exactly great at developing pitchers, I am not going to blame them for what’s happened to IPK/Joba and Phil (I assume that’s why you are down on Cash). I firmly believe that the course of a player’s career is determined by that player- first by his abilities, in conjunction with his attitude and work ethic.

  80. Triple Short of a Cycle April 16th, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    Tom in N.J.,

    Why because you think he will cost too much in prospects?

  81. joeman April 16th, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    don’t care what Boston is doing at this time ( they will turn it around) more worried about this team

  82. MTU April 16th, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    Bojo-

    I got all the acronyms but this one: “TBSOHL” ?

  83. Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    I don’t want Felix because it would cost way too much – like all of our best prospects. He’s one man – and no matter how great he is, he can’t do it all by himself. It’s moot anyway because he’s not available. The Yankees will just have to make do…….or find other ways of improving the rotation

  84. BoJo April 16th, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    Bets–

    Cash figured that out in 2005 and reset the player development strategy appropriately. It just takes time to develop (which is why he acquired CC and AJ). For every 20 pitchers we scout and sign as prospects, there might be 1 major league pitcher…and from every 10 of those, perhaps one ace.

    In other words, the odds are tough, but it is the price of winning.

  85. Against All Odds April 16th, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    # Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 11:56 am

    We really need to develop pitchers that are going to be cornerstones of the franchise instead of constantly depending or hoping for some kid stud to be available.

    ——————————————————

    You can say that again Betsy. The problem is the 1st group of guys haven’t been able to stick for one reason or another so it puts more pressure on a guy like Nova to step up.

  86. raymagnetic April 16th, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    I’d trade Banuelos and Betances for Felix and wouldn’t think twice about it.

    Unfortunately that would never be enough to pry away Felix.

    For the best pitcher in baseball who’s only 25 you trade whatever prospects it takes to get him.

    CC and Felix as a 1/2 punch = multiple championships IMO.

  87. BoJo April 16th, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    Bets–Another reason not to trade for Felix is the increased risk of injury from going from4 or 5 top prospects to one player. If he blows out his arm, you have nothing. If one or two of the prospects go down, you have 3 others left.

  88. Triple Short of a Cycle April 16th, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    Betsy,

    Yes in the end it comes down to the player but who is picking the players and who is in charge of hiring the people to evaluate these players. I’m not asking for every pitcher to become an ace. I’m asking for one number 1 or 2 guy. Even though we don’t pick high in the draft we have every advantage in the international market to exploit that.

  89. joeman April 16th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    # Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 11:56 am

    We really need to develop pitchers that are going to be cornerstones of the franchise instead of constantly depending or hoping for some kid stud to be available.
    ——————————————————
    there’s no sure thing when it comes to minor league SP….if and when a SP like Flex with a major league track record is out there you have to try and go get him

  90. blake April 16th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    “I’m in the minority, but, I don’t want Felix Hernandez”

    I want him but the price tag is very important in how bad I do.

  91. BoJo April 16th, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    MTU April 16th, 2011 at 12:03 pm
    Bojo-

    I got all the acronyms but this one: “TBSOHL” ?
    _____________
    I’m trying to push sales of my decoder ring on my website.

    Go to http://www.useless_acronyms.com

    (The Best Shape of His Life)

  92. randy l. April 16th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    pitchers can throw the same pitch with different amounts of turn their arms or wrists.

    mariano looks like he throws the cutter simply by pulling the shade. what that means is it’s just a downward motion like pulling the string on a shade.
    there is no twisting of the hand or elbow at all.

    the arm action is no different than a fast ball.

    i think most coaches would say this is the way to do it. however a pitcher like hughes may think he is just pulling the string, but he may be adding twist and turn to help the pitch.

    as far as pulling the string a 12/6 curve can even be thrown that way. it’s all how the fingers grip the ball.on a 12/6 curve the fingers would be in the front. on a cutter a little to the side. on a fastball in the back.

    but not turning of any joint when throwing the pitch. just pull down.

  93. MTU April 16th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    I think folks are looking at the wrong end of the horse.

    There is nothing all that wrong with our offense.

    It’s our SP situation that we need to be concerned with at the moment.

    Colon can probably hold the fort for a while but Nova has to step up a bit , and we have yet to see what Freddy can give us.

    And yes I know it’s early but there are definitely some concerns in evidence.

    I very much hope that Hughes problems are a temporary setback and not something more.

  94. Tom in N.J. April 16th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    “Why because you think he will cost too much in prospects?”

    Triple, It’s a combination of that and the fact he’s thrown a lot of innings so far in his career. Maybe I’m just over analizing it, but I don’t think he makes it to 30 w/o some sort of arm injury.

  95. Against All Odds April 16th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    # joeman April 16th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    # Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 11:56 am

    We really need to develop pitchers that are going to be cornerstones of the franchise instead of constantly depending or hoping for some kid stud to be available.
    ——————————————————
    there’s no sure thing when it comes to minor league SP….if and when a SP like Flex with a major league track record is out there you have to try and go get him

    ———————————————————

    No matter what the price is?

  96. Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    blake

    I agree that they have to make a commitment to winning, both in terms of dollars spent and smart decisions made.

    Piliere has their system ranked 16th, but says:

    16. Seattle Mariners | 2010 Rank: 19 | Players in Top 100: 3
    Seattle loaded up on high-upside talent in last year’s draft, and it is now developing the depth to put behind headliners Dustin Ackley and Michael Pineda. Having those two leading the way is crucial. The pair is as impressive a duo as you’ll find in the minors.
    __

    So at least it appears to be on it’s way up.

    Felix is young enough so that he could be part of the next wave of success if their prospects develop as they envision.

    But if they decided to move him, their improving mL system is yet another reason why they should want at least some young, established veterans in return to bridge the credibility gap with their fans until the mL prospects are ready.

    From the Yankees’ perspective, because pitchers are so fragile, I would hate trading tons of assets and taking on a very large contract, when I could have Banuelos, who is younger and much cheaper, even if he will only be 85-90% of what Felix is.

  97. Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Odds, so far, no – the first crop of kids hasn’t worked out as expected.

  98. Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Uh oh

  99. YsGuy April 16th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    so if you had 3 prospects, for the sake of argument we will call them ian joba and phil…and they turned out to be 2 mid rotation guys and an inconsistent reliever, that is actually great development.

    most yankees fans cant concieve of that b/c they think everybody needs to be walter johnson and every game is game 7, but that is actually great development

  100. BoJo April 16th, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    Tom in N.J. April 16th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
    “Why because you think he will cost too much in prospects?”

    Triple, It’s a combination of that and the fact he’s thrown a lot of innings so far in his career. Maybe I’m just over analizing it, but I don’t think he makes it to 30 w/o some sort of arm injury.
    _______________
    I’ve been saying this for over a year. Too many innings prior to age 25 (when players reach physical maturity) really worries me about their long-term durability.

  101. Against All Odds April 16th, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    # Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Odds, so far, no – the first crop of kids hasn’t worked out as expected.

    ————————————————————

    Unfortunately it puts the next crop of kids in a tougher spot to succeed and produce earlier than expected. We all know it takes young pitchers some time to get on track.

  102. MTU April 16th, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    Randy-

    I liked your line from the other day so I hope you won’t mind me lifting it here.

    If our SP doesn’t get it together I might regress to the mean too.

    And curse the Stars for our bad fortune.

    :)

  103. Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    Triple, I just want to be clear – are you referring to Joba, Phil and IPK? If not, what other kids are you referring to that Cash has messed up?

    Randy, Mo’s grip is probably the simplest, but as he’s said before, his is just a gift. Others may imitate his grip, but they won’t have the same results as he does. Phil seems to have issues figuring out what grip to use on what pitches – he’s a tinkerer for sure. In any case, CB said last year and maintained even this year that Phil’s normal cutter just isn’t a great pitch by itself. So, since that’s the case, I don’t see why he’s become so in love with it.

  104. blake April 16th, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    Rich,

    I understand….boy if Banuelos becomes 85-90% of what Felix is then they won’t need a trade anyway. I love him as a prospect but the chances of that probably aren’t as high as we’d like to believe. I think he certainly could….it’s just that there are a lot of things that have to go right for it to happen.

  105. Triple Short of a Cycle April 16th, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    YsGuy,

    If the Yankees kept Kennedy his ERA would be about 5. Hardly a mid rotation guy. 7th inning relievers are a dime a dozen. Now the jury is still out on Hughes. If he becomes a solid 3 then I will admit that it was worth it.

  106. joeman April 16th, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    # Against All Odds April 16th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    # joeman April 16th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    # Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 11:56 am

    We really need to develop pitchers that are going to be cornerstones of the franchise instead of constantly depending or hoping for some kid stud to be available.
    ——————————————————
    there’s no sure thing when it comes to minor league SP….if and when a SP like Flex with a major league track record is out there you have to try and go get him

    ———————————————————

    No matter what the price is?
    ——————————————————-
    what was the Yankee offer for C Lee from Sea

  107. Against All Odds April 16th, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    YsGuy April 16th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    so if you had 3 prospects, for the sake of argument we will call them ian joba and phil…and they turned out to be 2 mid rotation guys and an inconsistent reliever, that is actually great development.

    —————————————-

    It can’t be great development when one of the pitchers is producing for another club and the other two have been inconsistent in their early careers. I don’t want no one to take that as the big 3 are failures but it’s not great development

  108. Triple Short of a Cycle April 16th, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    Betsy,

    Yes those 3.

  109. Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    blake

    That’s why I like the idea of selling high on Martin, throwing in an improved Joba (or Robertson), Gardner (to appease the doubters here), and then they can have a non-Baneulos KIller B or two.

    It won’t happen, but that’s what blogs are partly for.

  110. BoJo April 16th, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 12:14 pm
    he’s a tinkerer for sure
    _______________
    He tinkers too much. If he stayed with his fastball at 92-93, the curve he once had, and a change up, he could be more dominant. As it is, he gets ahead on his fastball, and gets beat with his cutter.

    He needs to breathe thru his eyeballs more.

  111. Against All Odds April 16th, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    # joeman April 16th, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    # Against All Odds April 16th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    # joeman April 16th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    # Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 11:56 am

    We really need to develop pitchers that are going to be cornerstones of the franchise instead of constantly depending or hoping for some kid stud to be available.
    ——————————————————
    there’s no sure thing when it comes to minor league SP….if and when a SP like Flex with a major league track record is out there you have to try and go get him

    ———————————————————

    No matter what the price is?
    ——————————————————-
    what was the Yankee offer for C Lee from Sea
    ————————————————

    the best hitting prospect in the minors and some parts around him. I understand how great King Felix is but the price for him might be way too steep.

  112. Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Odds, fans probably will expect more from these next 3 simply because they didn’t get what they were expecting from the first 3 (really, the first 2), but that’s their issue. The Yankees have to be patient – but it’s a lot easier when you can break in a kid. The Yankees never seem to be able to do that easily. Last year AJ and Javy sucked so Phil had to be better than a #5 and now Nova………….. It’s a real problem.

  113. randy l. April 16th, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    here is another factor throwing pitches too.

    pitcher’s arms don’t hang the same way.

    some pitcher’s arms when they stand with their arms at their said will have their thumbs pointing forward. some will have the back of their hand facing forward.

    in other words their arms are hooked to their shoulders differently. this changes how they throw a pitch and how pressures are placed on the shoulder when throwing a pitch.

  114. Triple Short of a Cycle April 16th, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    Against All Odds,

    They will request the sky from us and then trade him for next to nothing to another team like they did with Texas. Its funny since all the Yankee haters are still trying to talk up Smoak and how much better he is then Montero

  115. Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    Triple, IPK is a good pitcher – but IMO, he was always an NL guy. Still, nothing wrong with how he’s turned out. Joba’s had issues – some from the Yanks, but mostly it’s on him – same with Phil. If Phil can’t throw breaking pitches or won’t commit to them, it’s on him, not the Yankees. It’s just the way things are – lots of top prospects have turned out to be busts. Joba and Phil are by no means busts – they’ve had too much success to be called that- but they’ve not really lived up to their hype. Joba seems on the right track, at least as a reliever. We’ll have to wait and see what Phil does………….

  116. MTU April 16th, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    “some pitcher’s arms when they stand with their arms at their said will have their thumbs pointing forward. some will have the back of their hand facing forward.”

    Any of them have their thumbs in a different position ?

    :)

  117. Rich in NJ April 16th, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    I don’t believe in the concept of NL/AL guys.

  118. randy l. April 16th, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    “If our SP doesn’t get it together I might regress to the mean too.”

    mtu-

    mean is underrated .

  119. MTU April 16th, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    New thread ==>

  120. Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Bojo, he doesn’t have any curve any more…………..and I don’t know what grip he’s using now. Maybe what worked in the minors doesn’t work here; he does seem to lose the feel for pitches fairly quickly.

  121. BTX April 16th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Would give up Hughes before having to give up 2 of Betances, Montero, or Banuelos.

  122. MTU April 16th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    “mean is underrated .”

    I know you “mean” in the normal and not the Sabremetric sense.

    ;)

  123. joeman April 16th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Against All Odds April 16th, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    the best hitting prospect in the minors and some parts around him. I understand how great King Felix is but the price for him might be way too steep.
    ————————————————————————————-
    and Lee could have walked…plus right now I’d rather have King over Lee….

    it would be very steep

  124. BoJo April 16th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    The only reason folks can say the Yankees have not developed their pitcher well is because their expectations are unrealistic.

    First, the Yankees are not rushing their top arms because they want them to stay healthy and keep them around awhile. So, young pitchers are brought along a little more slowly than other teams. The other teams know they have to get as much out of the pitchers while they still have control over them, and then risk losing them to FA.

    Second, the Yankees don’t thrust their young pitchers into rotation slots and let them learn to pitch as much as other teams simply because there is so much competition for a slot with much more talent.

    Third, they also don’t put prospects into the rotation as early as other teams because they are competing for titles every year.

    In the environment the Yankees are in, we have to be more patient with the development of a Hughes, Joba, and others. They have as much talent as any other top prospects, but just will take longer to find their way because they won’t have the luxury of getting thrust in a rotation and learning on the job (as happens with other teams like Seattle).

  125. Against All Odds April 16th, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    # Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Odds, fans probably will expect more from these next 3 simply because they didn’t get what they were expecting from the first 3 (really, the first 2), but that’s their issue. The Yankees have to be patient – but it’s a lot easier when you can break in a kid. The Yankees never seem to be able to do that easily. Last year AJ and Javy sucked so Phil had to be better than a #5 and now Nova………….. It’s a real problem.

    ————————————————————

    Oh yea the expectations are higher with this next wave and you’re right when it comes to breaking kids in. Nova has to step up due to Hughes taking a step back, Hughes had to pitch well because Javy and Aj were terrible, Joba moved from a 5 to a 4 because of Wang being injured, and the big 3 all shoulder some pressure in 2008. It’s a lot easier to break kids in when the rotation is settled.

  126. Triple Short of a Cycle April 16th, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    Betsy,

    Its also how Cash evaluates talent. It almost seems like if a pitcher pitches well against the Yankees then he makes more of an effort to sign them. Burnett and Pavano as 2 examples. He also loves to bring in guys coming off great or career years no matter what the warning signs are. I know most people on here think Cash is a great GM and maybe I go overboard sometimes with my expectations of him but not getting Haren last year has really put a damper on the way I feel about him

  127. randy l. April 16th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    mtu-

    it sounds funny, but the way my arms hang affects how i have to grip the golf club.

    it’s a small fine tuning, but it does have an effect.

    it’s kind of like which eye is dominant. an athlete can play well without knowing which eye is dominant, but it does help with hitting stance to know which eye is dominant.

  128. joeman April 16th, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    at this point good thing they have AJ

  129. Against All Odds April 16th, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    # joeman April 16th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Against All Odds April 16th, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    the best hitting prospect in the minors and some parts around him. I understand how great King Felix is but the price for him might be way too steep.
    ————————————————————————————-
    and Lee could have walked…plus right now I’d rather have King over Lee….

    it would be very steep

    ———————————————-

    Steep isn’t the word they would want piece of the stadium lol

  130. Betsy April 16th, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    Triple, I don’t think that’s fair. First of all, Pavano is a very good pitcher – it just didn’t work here. Second of all, we were DESPERATE for pitching in 2009 – and much better AJ, than Derek Lowe, who sucked in 2009. AJ pitched the best game of the year that year – so no complaints from me.

  131. MTU April 16th, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    Randy-

    I know. I was just funnin’ ya’

    Maybe poorly.

    :)

  132. spidanyc April 16th, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    There is no reason for the Mariners to hold on to King Felix. The Mariners suck and will not make the playoffs anytime soon. I don’t believe that King Felix alone will stop Mariners fans from attending home games in Seattle as King Felix is not an everyday player.

    I say……

    Brackman (He can be Seattle’s version of a right handed Randy Johnson with ace potential or at worse, a #2), Nova (Solid #3 or 4 starter), Romine (catcher for the next 10 years), Dave Robertson (can be their future closer and I believe has value), Eduardo Nunez (Solid SS for the next 10 years), Brandon Laird (3B/OF/DH) and Hector Noesi (#4 or 5 starter) for KING FELIX!!!


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