Game 15: Yankees at Blue Jays
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Gameday Thread on Apr 19, 2011 
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YANKEES (9-5)
Derek Jeter SS
Curtis Granderson CF
Mark Teixeira 1B
Robinson Cano 2B
Nick Swisher RF
Eric Chavez 3B
Jorge Posada DH
Russell Martin C
Brett Gardner LF
RHP A.J. Burnett (3-0, 4.67)
Burnett vs. Blue Jays
BLUE JAYS (7-9)
Yunel Escobar SS
Travis Snider LF
Jose Bautista RF
Adam Lind 1B
Aaron Hill 2B
Jose Molina C
Corey Patterson CF
Edwin Encarnacion DH
Jayson Nix 3B
RHP Kyle Drabek (1-0, 1.93)
Drabek vs. Yankees
TIME/TV: 7:05 p.m., YES Network
WEATHER: Cold and rainy outside. Warm and domey inside.
UMPIRES: HP Ron Kulpa, 1B Jim Wolf, 2B Derryl Cousins, 3B Jim Joyce
MORE ON MARTIN: It helps that only four players have tried to run on him, but Russell Martin has allowed the fewest stolen bases of any major league catcher with at least 100 innings behind the plate (tied with Carlos Santana and Matt Wieters). Martin also leads all big league catchers with four home runs. He and Buster Posey are tied for the most RBI by a catcher with a 11.
HOMER HAPPY: The Yankees 27 home runs have set a franchise record for the most home runs through 14 games, and the Yankees have already tied the franchise record for the most home runs through 15 games according to Elias.
GOING LEFT FOR SWISH: Curtis Granderson has generated a lot of attention for his numbers against lefties this season, but Nick Swisher is also hitting well against lefties. He has a .526 average in 19 at-bats against left-handers this season. He came into the year with a .260 career batting average against lefties.
BLUE JAYS ACTIVATE FRANCISCO: Toronto has activated reliever Frank Francisco from the DL.
UPDATE, 7:25 p.m.: Someone said to me, “What are the chances this guy goes deep tonight?” One pitch later, Jose Bautista hit a solo home run for a 1-0 Blue Jays lead in the first inning.
UPDATE, 7:39 p.m.: Well that didn’t take much. A couple of walks, a single and a run-scoring double play and the Yankees are in the lead 2-1 in the middle of the second.
UPDATE, 8:32 p.m.: Wow, is Gardner ever struggling. Bad sac bunt right to the pitcher led to Martin being retired after leading off with a double. That bunt and the Burnett mistake are hurting right now. It’s 2-2 in the fifth.
UPDATE, 8:34 p.m.: Seriously. Struggling.
UPDATE, 8:45 p.m.: Mark Teixeira’s sixth homer of the year is a two-run shot in the sixth. It’s now 4-2 Yankees.
UPDATE, 9:10 p.m.: Not entirely sure how Hill hurt himself, but he’s out of the game and McDonald is in after a stolen base in the bottom of the sixth.
UPDATE, 9:24 p.m.: This might be the game. Robertson is in with the bases loaded and one out in the sixth. The Blue Jays have already pulled within 4-3, and although Burnett did a fine job minimizing the damage earlier in the game, at this point it became too risky to stick with him.
UPDATE, 9:32 p.m.: Well that was impressive. Fastballs to Escobar. Curveballs to Snider. Back-to-back strikeouts to strand the runners. If the Yankees hold on, someone needs to pie Robertson. That’s a reliever walkoff.
UPDATE, 9:39 p.m.: Hey look, Curtis Granderson can hit right-handers again. That’s his second home run vs. RHP in the past two games. It’s now 5-3.
UPDATE, 10:47 p.m.: Obviously a lot of writing and rewriting happening in the press box right now. Mariano Rivera has blown a save and now it looks like Ivan Nova is warming in the bullpen, though the TV here hasn’t shown it so that I could be certain.
Burnett will go 7 IP and 3 ER and 8 Ks.
ok i after thinking about it all day, i benched kyle drabek on the two teams i have him in fbb. so feel free to mash away, boys!
Lets Go Yankees!!!!!
Game on my9. Cone back in the booth.
Sounds good, Richie Rich!!
I’ve been wondering when Cone was going to debut this season.
Go NY Go NY Go!!!!!!!
Go Yankees and go Knicks!
Great start for Jeter. Drabek is the exact kind of right hander that should give him trouble.
Great job by Jeter…those pitches ate him alive last year, good job staying inside that.
Good start Jetes
JF,
agree….anything moving into Jeter was where he was having issues (2 seamers from righties and cutters from lefties). That was a much better and more classical Jeter swing.
Am I the only one who still breathes a sigh of relief when I think about Halladay no longer being a matchup in these series?!
Run jeter
starting the runner saved 2 there…
not facing Halladay is good but Drabek was a good get in return for him….he’s going to be very good.
Mark needs to pull one here.
Mark needs to pull one here.
-
Don’t think you need to worry about that
listening on the radio. sterling says lind makes a nice play and ‘goes to the bag’.
which bag? i had to wait 2 pitches to find out that jeter was on second base.
he’s incompetent
man that was a pitch to hit right there….Tex just a little tardy.
Drabek made a major mistake on that 3-1 pitch. Should have been crushed but Tex’s swing plane didn’t allow him to get to the ball squarely.
What impact will it makes if you switch AROD and Cano in the batting order?
man that was a pitch to hit right there….Tex just a little tardy.
–
Drabek’s fastball is very nice.
Hughes should get that change up.
CB,
he can hit that pitch righty much easier…he can lefty but he has to get up to it early, can’t wait late.
Drabek is impressive stuff wise…he keeps the ball low and sinks it but can elevate that 4 seamer when he needs to.
YsGuy April 19th, 2011 at 7:14 pm
listening on the radio. sterling says lind makes a nice play and ‘goes to the bag’.
which bag? i had to wait 2 pitches to find out that jeter was on second base.
he’s incompetent
Lind is playing first. Goes to the bag. Not throws to the bag.
Anthpolous did a great job with that trade for Doc. Given the circumstances, it was one of the better trades any GM has made over the past couple of seasons.
Drabek has star potential.
If Marrow is healthy and throwing how he was at the end of last season the Jays have one of the best young staffs in the game.
Man….that’s nasty
What a pleasure it is to have Cone back in the booth. He’s just great.
Hard to believe ESPN couldn’t luck themselves into hiring him rather than Hershiser or…. Sutcliffe
AJ has video game stuff.
Bautista swings so freakin hard……he swings like Sheffield used to. I’d like to get a big lead and have AJ plunk him in the buttocks
Why are they pitching him inside?
Just stupid.
Jose Bautista continues to annoy. I wish he would revert back to pre 2010 jose bautista.
Keeping guys off base infront of him will be key.
Terrible mistake calling that pitch by Martin.
The second I saw him set up there, knowing he was throwing ANOTHER fastball to him, I said out loud, this is gone.
And it was.
Cone is great.
That was just an amazing swing.
Bautista pulled his hands in, got his stroke short and still had the power to yank the ball out of the park.
The contrast between the swing Bautista put on that mistake in location fastball and the one Tex put on a similar mistake in location was jarring.
NYYs just need to walk Bautista every time he comes up unless it’s a time where he can’t affect the outcome of the game.
“Bautista swings so freakin hard……he swings like Sheffield used to”
Great comparison.
Bautista is up there to hit the ball as hard as possible every at bat.
And I honestly have no idea where all of this bat speed came from because he didn’t have it a few years ago.
I’m trying to think of a player that was as bad as Bautista used to be that became this much better by changing their swing.
Boston was close to trading for Bautista in the offseason.
Luckily, they are stuck with Crawford for 7 more years.
Bautista in fenway would have been criminal
“Boston was close to trading for Bautista in the offseason.”
I don’t know how much longer he’ll be this good but he would have been scary in Fenway.
blake April 19th, 2011 at 7:26 pm
I’m trying to think of a player that was as bad as Bautista used to be that became this much better by changing their swing.
———————————————————————————————————————-
He wasn’t this bad, but Paul O’Neill retooled his swing in 1 year.
Good job by AJ there…..if a solo homer beats you then its your offenses fault
Travis Synder – there’s a guy with a huge disconnect between how good his swing is and his results.
I think the Toronto mash everything approach really hasn’t done him any favors.
He has an all star swing.
Really hope Martin and AJ learned from their mistake and won’t try going in there with a fastball again.
Especially the way AJ’s curve is tonight. Filthy.
Good eye Swish.
GB,
thats true….but Oneil was at least a pretty good everyday player before he came to NY, he just couldn’t hit lefties. Bautista didn’t even play every day.
“Carl April 19th, 2011 at 7:19 pm
YsGuy April 19th, 2011 at 7:14 pm
listening on the radio. sterling says lind makes a nice play and ‘goes to the bag’.
which bag? i had to wait 2 pitches to find out that jeter was on second base.
he’s incompetent
Lind is playing first. Goes to the bag. Not throws to the bag.”
******
first off, i tuned in just in time to hear the first pitch, and they hadnt yet done the defensive alignment. secondly, at the end of any play, any competent radio man settles where all the runners ended up, baseball announcing 101.
Two other ones that were as bad as Bautista was Gene Tenace and Ken Harrelson.
Why did we give Bautista anything to hit. Anytime he is up with 2 out and nobody on he should be pitched around
YES broadcast spelled it out but Drabek has some control issues early going so the Yankees should be able to get a lot of baserunners.
As for getting the ‘big hit’ off Drabek, that will be much harder
GB7,
I’ll have to take your word for it on those 2
–
work little doug….get him outta there.
Drabek is having trouble with his balance out on the mound. They should just let him dig himself into a hole.
Drabek is his own worst enemy.
Where did Bautista’s bat speed come from? It’s a shame, and a commentary, that many of us have the same thought in mind.
ump keeps bailing Drabek out
Hip hip Jorge!!!!
The old man can still swing the stick….that’s a great piece of hitting right there.
there you go, a non-homerun rbi.
A single by Posada? Hip hip Jorge!
Scoring without homers.
I like homers.
If Drabek were pitching for the Yanks right now he would be a developmental failure.
This inning is a great example of how hard it is to pitch at this level as a young pitcher.
It is just a brutal. Mistakes are just punished at such a high rate.
at this pace, we’ll be seeing that Toronto pen by the 5th or 6th (or hopefully sooner)
Eh….got the run in but that was the worst way to do it
hitters need to work the count a bit until Drabek shows he can throw strikes consistently
patience Russell
CB, I think AA has done a phenomenal job. Well he schooled Bill Smith on what to obtain for your stud pitcher, but even beyond that- the Jays are a franchise on the rise to be sure. It seems like they just churn out SP…….
Drabek’s turn of his back to the plate makes his delivery more complicated than it probably needs to be given the impact that it has on his command.
Anthopolous has done a great job. The Jays are going to be competitive long term most likely
Blake, unfortunately; that’s why it’s imperative that the Yankees develop their own pitching and eventually their own position players – because teams like the Jays and O’s and Rays have loaded farm systems. The Sox are obviously very well run, too – you stay put and you die in this division
Good pitches.
AJ needs to mix it up though.
Jays should have been a contender already but they ran some of their promising young arms into the ground.
i remember how dominant a guy like Dustin McGowan looked but he couldn’t stay healthy.
Throw in pretty much every other young arm they had and Tommy John surgery or some sort of medical issue seemed to follow. At least Litcsh is back and looks pretty good so far.
Strike out, pop up, or double play here please
DP here.
Is there a reason why Cone doesn’t do every game…..
I’ll take a K.
The jays are so concerned about AJ’s curve that they are jumping at any fastball they see.
AJ has a lot of confidence in Martin to block the ball with a runner on 3rd…
I thought Litsch just went on the DL?
Way to go AJ.
way to mix it up.
great job AJ.
AJ being economical.
Nix was so overmatched, funny.
Incredible job by AJ. He’s looks like a different pitcher from last year….both stuff wise and composure wise. Will it last? who knows but it sure is nice right now.
that’s the difference for aj between last year and this. He stays composed.
i don’t want to jinx him, but that was fantastic. last year that would have been three runs at least.
Nice work by AJ, using Toronto’s aggressiveness against them.
Nice job by AJ to get out of that.
AJ seems to have taken his responsibility as the #2 pitcher on the staff very seriously…………..as it turns out, we’re desperate for him to be more than just decent. He’s a good guy and he works hard, so I hope he can keep this up all year.
Joe from LI,
Litsch was just demoted because he has options left but he’ll be back soon. They kept JoJo Reyes over him who is not nearly as good.
AJ has hitters swinging at a lot of balls.
Last April, AJ also showed composure……….but he just fell apart after. We’ll know if he’s different when he has a really bad game; the problem with AJ is that he has rarely been able to stop one bad game or inning from becoming 3, 4 or whathave you.
Jeter would already have 3,000 hits if he played on turf 81 games a year…..he’s looking much better.
Jeter seems to be making more loud outs. thats a good sign.
kd April 19th, 2011 at 7:47 pm
i don’t want to jinx him, but that was fantastic. last year that would have been three runs at least.
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He started out well last year, as well. He can implode at pretty much any time. However, his approach does seem a little different this year–he looks like he is throwing over the top a bit more than in years’ past.
The Jays have done an absolutely horrendous job “developing” young pitchers over the past five years.
That very well may have been entirely JP’s fault. But while they did a great job finding talent they just chewed through arms one after another after another. They treated them like commodities to be used rather than an asset to be developed.
I went through all of the innings pitched in the minors for that group of pitchers – McGowa, Marcum, etc. Just hard to get over what they did.
I remember there was a Jays fan who used to post here every once in a while and I brought this subject up. And his reponse was that it didn’t really matter. The jays would only have these pitchers for 6 seasons of team control so they had to get them to the majors as soon as possible and squeeze everything they could out of them. Didn’t really matter what happened afterwards.
Unfortunately for those pitchers and ultimately for the Jays they didn’t even make it through close to 6 seasons.
McGowan was a bona fide #1 guy. He had a shot to be one of the best pitchers in baseball.
Since the begiining of last year, Bautista has figured out how to hook outside pitches into the left and lrft center field seats. Fast and strong hands.
Walk him his next time up.
Betsy – very much agreed.
BD – I thought it was DL. Thanks.
Betsy April 19th, 2011 at 7:49 pm
Last April, AJ also showed composure……….but he just fell apart after. We’ll know if he’s different when he has a really bad game; the problem with AJ is that he has rarely been able to stop one bad game or inning from becoming 3, 4 or whathave you.
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We’ll know if he’s different if he can keep from losing the strike zone for 20, or so, pitches at a time.
I thought Doug Drabek had a better record than that.
It’s not imperative the Yankees develop their own pitchers. It’s nice, but not mandatory. They have the financial resources to obtain FA’s like Sabathia when they need/want to.
Look at how differently Drabek’s back leg lands from pitch to pitch.
CB–That attitude of the Jays fan is the difference between how many other clubs develop their prospects as opposed to how the Yankees do. The Yanks view a career as being much longer because they know they will keep their best players.
So, for those who are continually impatient about how slowly we bring along pitchers, there is your reason.
i have a question for all of the direct TV subscribers who have mlb extra innings and who don’t live in new york. Do you get both the home team and away team (if both available) on direct tv for each game?
i just switched to comcast (i live in florida) and it seems i only get 1 feed for each game…last year i had direct tv and used to get both the home team and away team feed for each game (if available)..
the reason i ask is i got just about all the yankee YES and MY9 games lastyear – and so far this year i’m only getting 1 feed and i’ve had to watch some of the yankee games watching the opponent’s feed – btw the toronto tv crew is more boring then watching grass grow…(no yankee feed tonight) ..thanks..
It’s not imperative the Yankees develop their own pitchers. It’s nice, but not mandatory. They have the financial resources to obtain FA’s like Sabathia when they need/want to.
—
You need to field 5+ starting pitchers a year.
Phelps is perfect through 3 innings with 3 strikeouts against Phillies AAA team
didnt catch that half inning (watching basketball game)
a) is Tex ok?
b) did Cano look terrible pulling that outside cutter instead of taking it to LF? Or maybe just taking a pitch?
that change is just ridiculous
Litsch was sent to AAA.
AJ’s change up is almost like a splitter its so hard and moves down so much.
Romanski is matching zeroes with greinke through 3 innings in Tampa.
Now Ump is giving Bautista balls..
knock Bautista’s butt off the plate.
sab April 19th, 2011 at 7:54 pm
i have a question for all of the direct TV subscribers who have mlb extra innings and who don’t live in new york. Do you get both the home team and away team (if both available) on direct tv for each game?
I live in California and have DirecTV and MLB Extra Innings. I get all home games on YES and some road games on YES and some road games on the opposing team’s broadcast. Today’s game is a YES broadcast but I am getting it on Channel 726 not YES which is Channel 631.
that’s fine, at least it wasnt a HR
I liked Cone’s idea better….should have hooked him there 3-2
“AJ’s change up is almost like a splitter its so hard and moves down so much.”
It’s very much the kind of “power” change that both Felix and Lincecum throw.
They both hold it with a split grip – which makes sense given the action they have on the ball.
I think AJ throws a circle change though. Hard to see how he gets that much action and velocity on the ball without a split grip.
CB, I remember that poster – and I remember feeling really queasy reading about how he didn’t care about these kids’ arms being ruined. The point is though, they keep developing these talented kids. Some organizations do better at it than others – and the Yankees are not among that group.
WC, you think it’s just easy to go out and buy a FA? It wasn’t so easy with Lee – not everyone wants to come here. Teams are locking up their best kids………. Also, I don’t need a fully homegrown rotation, but I’m tired of all FA, all the time. It might be nice to see a couple of kids that we developed on our own…………to take pride in.
Banuelos is locked up in a scoreless game. 3 innings. 1 hit, 2 strikeouts but 2 walks
Stoudamire looks hurt
So get this crap. I got to CBS Sports and read the power rankings that have the Yankees lower than were I would put them due to Hughes having a dead arm. Fair enough however, the HACK Journalist says the “Yankees came to this conclusion when he through a 47mph fastball to the Minnesota Twins on Friday night.” WHAT???
First off Hughes never clocked a 47 mph fastball to my knowledge and never even pitched to the Twins this year much less on a Friday night.
How do some of these guys have jobs? I mean I know Wally Matthews has one so I guess anything possible for anybody. Unbelievalbe stuff
“The point is though, they keep developing these talented kids. Some organizations do better at it than others – and the Yankees are not among that group.”
Too early to say that. They really haven’t “finished” developing any of their kids. Perhaps Romero.
But even then they have yet to develop a true front of the rotation pitcher – either a 1 or 2.
And that’s the big test for them. And neither Romero nor Cecil have that potential.
Let’s see what they do with Drabek and Morrow.
come on jeter / AJ
wow that was ugly.
Damn bad throw AJ
Sloppy.
Why can’t pitchers throw in the infield. AJ did everything right but then he forgets how to throw the ball.
ugh.
Pitch out of it here.
CB, but not every pitcher has to be an ace or a #2 -it’s ok to develop a good, middle of the rotation starter as I’m sure you know
Even though that throw was bad, it was still close enough to Jeter. How does he not catch that.
Even if Jeter catches that he would have had to make a very difficult throw to 3rd to get Bautista there.
Great play by Martin.
Good job limiting damage again….they shouldn’t have scored.
Another nice job by AJ, limiting the damage. I think that this might be the best that I’ve seen him this year.
Back spasms for Amar’e
“but not every pitcher has to be an ace or a #2 -it’s ok to develop a good, middle of the rotation starter as I’m sure you know”
Sure. But before one describes the Jays as some kind of factory for pitching development they do need to produce more than 2 major league rotation pieces.
And they also do need to produce a high end starter for them to be deemed a highly successful development organization like say the Rays are.
They Jays have not produced pitchers who have had sustained success at the major league level yet. Romero and Cecil are promising but they are still works in progress – Cecil in particular.
They can’t be a great development organization until they’ve actually finished developing these pitchers. That’s all I’m saying. It premature to describe them in that fashion.
They haven’t yet come close to doing what say the Rays or Giants have.
Martin also deserves a lot of credit for calling a nice game.
Besty I think that most players do want to come here, Lee was the exception not the rule and the Yankees do have the financial resources to sign FA’s when they need to — if they are available. I’m talking top of the rotation guys for the most part; they had a need in 2009 and went out and got Sabathia and Burnett.
In an ideal world we would develop all our pitchers and we could spend our money elsewhere. If I am not mistaken, Tampa’s entire starting rotation this season is homegrown. Banuelos and Betances might turn out to be very good in the show – time will tell.
Oh boy – is Amare going to be able to return?
Lets go back to work
Drabek does have some kinks to work out mechanically.
man, Drabek has a wild, violent motion, esp. the end.
CB, that’s true – I’m definitely envious of those organizations.
Except for that lollipop throw to Jeter.
Dumb Chavez.
Drabek is really struggling with his balance and release point out on the mound tonight.
And there was really no need to swing at the first pitch Chavez with a kid out there who is struggling to throw strikes.
Knicks lead at the half 45-44
Chavez really bailed out Drabek, had a chance to knock out a 20 pitch inning.
WC, I’m not opposed to FAs, but I’m really tired of having to depend on them. In a way, the Yankees have had some poor luck with their first big crop of pitchers………There was an article I read recently that referred to his. Whereas Lincium and Cain have been beyond durable, the Yankees big two prospects have had issues…………and even IPK had them as well.
A 1 pitch DP, Drabek might get out of this inning around 15 pitches per inning, instead of 20 per inning…
Igotid, thanks. With the Seder tonight, I’ve not had a chance to watch ……….Knicks have withstood the big Boston surge at the beginning, but they really need to have a decent lead by the last few minutes so that Allen isn’t a HUGE factor.
“Drabek does have some kinks to work out mechanically.”
He’s very over the top. That makes his hook very effective and gives his fastball really good downwards plane.
But to get his arm that over the top he has to clear out his head and front side really fast to get his arm through and that affects his base.
Great stuff. But you can see how he would have trouble with his command if his timing is off.
Drabek is 23 years old. What a prospect.
one thing to remember is that a lot of those pitchers the Giants and Rays have were taken with higher draft picks than the Yankees ever have.
Strictly speaking, it’s doubtlessly true that the Yanks don’t need to develop home-grown pitchers to win, just as it is no doubt true that having a lefty in the starting rotation is not necessary for the Yanks to win a WS. However, in practice, it’s hard to see them winning without at least one home-grown pitcher and one lefty in the rotation. In fact, when was the last time that the Yanks won the WS without a home-grown pitcher or lefty in the rotation?
I feel old – his father was a huge prospect for the Yankees back in the day. It’s always kind of weird and neat to see sons of major leaguers make it to the bigs.
Something tells me we will see Alex pinch hit later. Possibly for Gardner as I don’t think they’ll want him to play the field yet.
Time for AJ to completely implode.
CB,
agreed
Blake, where were Lincecum and Cain drafted? Phil was #24 in his draft – pretty high, esp. for a HS kid. Joba had issues in college – which is why he dropped.
And that’s how AJ just kills you. Awful walk.
Can’t walk Jose Molina
IMO, Alex shouldn’t hit at all – you can’t fool around with this kind of injury
Lincecum was the 10th pick in the first round; I think Cain was in the twenties in the first round, similar to Hughes. Durability is just luck most of the time – can’t predict injuries, etc.
Betsy,
Lincecum and Bumgardner were both 10th overall….I think Cain was taken later.
Betsy April 19th, 2011 at 8:13 pm
Igotid, thanks. With the Seder tonight, I’ve not had a chance to watch ……….Knicks have withstood the big Boston surge at the beginning, but they really need to have a decent lead by the last few minutes so that Allen isn’t a HUGE factor.
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It’s gonna be their Big 3 vs our 1. Don’t know if Billups will be back for game 3 even though they say he will. And who knows about Amar’e
Nice job by Gardner…..he made that look routine and it wasn’t
Banuelos gave up an unearned run…..sounds like the 2b kicked one. 1-0 Richmond
Martin is doing a great job back there.
from my Sox intel:
John Farrell is probably the main reason Jon Lester is still in Boston.
After 2007 (despite their WS win) much of the Sox front office wanted to trade Lester (he was of course part of the Johan Santana package – but despite not getting Santana, they were discussing moving him.) I’m not sure why they were down on him but probably because he was walking lots of guys and not commanding his stuff well.
Farrell insisted that he could work with Lester and that he would be an ace-type starter. They gave him the benefit of the doubt and it’s turned out ok for the Sox…
It’s easy to see the Giants and Rays as successes of pitching development now when we never had to sit through all of those horrendous seasons of losing as those pitchers were given time to get beat up at the big league level.
Yankee fans were disappointed and/ or unimpressed with Phil Hughes last season.
One can only imagine what they would have done with Matt Cain when he was struggling during his first season in the rotation.
There’s only so much a young player can learn in the minors. A huge part of their development must take place at the major league level.
And yankee fans and NY have no patience for watching that process of learning at the big league level.
This is one of the Yankees biggest challenges in developing players, pitchers in particular.
Much of the fanbase will not tolerate what’s required.
would love to see jose molina try to steal.
I dare Molina to run! Do it!
Igotid, Knicks can’t catch a break…… It’s bad enough with Billups, but sheesh; they are scrappy, though.
WC, yep, just a completely unpredictable thing.
Blake, thanks! It’s hard to figure why some pitchers develop and some don’t……….It’s easy if you can pinpoint it to bad work ethic, injuries, etc…, but if you can’t, then there is no answer.
So frustrating.
“Much of the fanbase will not tolerate what’s required.”
very true and great post
Just walked 2 batters who should have no chance against him.
anyone see how Zambrano is pitching now?
I wouldn’t be shocked it the Cubbies fall out, that Z ends up on the Yankees.
CB, and I was one of those people – I make no bones about it. That’s for another day. I get that you have to be patient with kids in that once they have proven themselves in the minors, the next step in their education is to have them pitch up here. That, IMO, is for polished kids. For those who don’t have sufficent pitches, it’s asking an awful lot for them to develop it up here. It’s not just the fans, also – the Yankees are expected by their owners to win. You can live with some growing pains, but if a pitcher is really bad, you can’t just keep throwing him out there. If I recall, Cain wasn’t THAT bad early on – he just had a lousy record.
““Much of the fanbase will not tolerate what’s required.””
—————-
that’s about as big as an understatement as there is.
the NY media alone would call for beheadings before that happened and Sportscenter would look like Cinqo de Mayo every night with all the celebrating going on at ESPN.
wow escobar did him a huge favor.
That was a gift lettin him loose.
Josh Johnson is working on another one of those things again.
Kinda early though but still.
ac1,
wow
as bad as some of the Yanks have bailed out Drabek, that swing by Escobar was brutally bad.
just a braindead play.
Betsy,
some of it’s a crapshoot but also if you repeatedly get to pick in the top 10 of the draft and are drafting very talented guys then it just stands to reason that 1 or 2 will pan out eventually.
The Rays didn’t have some stroke of genius that made them get David Price….they were awful and got to pick first in the draft. Same thing with the Nats and Strausburg.
what is Escobar doing there 3-0…..thank you very much.
Nice AJ keep ducking and diving bad innings. Need runs…,.
Ac, I sincerely hope not…………I’m not interested in the Albert Belle of pitchers.
Carl,
JJ even has a hit and 2 RBI to rub it in.
guy is impressive….
Nice hit
Martin rules.
Martin is a player!
I love martins opposite field power
Christ, Martin was such a good pickup
“I love martins opposite field power”
—————–
and it didn’t look like Toronto figured he’d hit it that far…. looked like they were a bit shallow in RF.
why why why
Martin sucks!
The stupidest bunt. Why are we bunting in the 5th??????????? And 0 outs???
SOmeone needs to tell the Jays announcers that Gardner is NOT a good bunter, obviously.
Waste of speed. Gardner continues to fail at the plate.
Garrett Jones got a hit off of Johnson
Really really sucks that Gardner is such a horrible bunter. Don’t even have him do it anymore. He better take this base, that knucklehead
The stupidest bunt. Why are we bunting in the 5th??????????? And 0 outs???
___
Because Gardner can’t hit.
I’m kidding
But that was a terrible play. Oh well, nobody’s perfect.
the way Gardner is swinging right now, ok fine, bunt…
but that is abysmal. Gardner needs to work on that, for multiple reasons.
Because Gardner can’t hit.
–
He is grounding out in 50% of his AB, they could have had him swinging away. A ground ball to the right does the same thing. And he might get a hit.
good things rarely come from Gardner bunting…..he’s just not good at it and it’s the 5th inning
Jerkface is right though.
no outs and a lefty hitter…. even if he just pulls the ball to the right he gets the same result as a bunt.
Phil Rizzuto is a better bunter than Gardner….even though Phil’s dead….
Gardner cant hit or bunt, and doesnt steal enough when he is in base.
whats the point?
Yankees are going to be looking for a left fielder at the deadline, trust me.
Gardner has to give this team something positive and it needs to happen very soon. Can’t have such a hole in LF.
In Gardner’s defense, he’s got to try something to get himself going.
If they really wanted a dead sac, they could have simply had him square up way early.
What’s wrong with GArdner’s speed?
Gardner – just crap. Geez.
he was safe.
“If I recall, Cain wasn’t THAT bad early on – he just had a lousy record.”
He stunk. He got sent back down to the minors at some point IIRC. When he came back up he was much better. But for a good stretch he was awful.
But in NY he would have been written off and buried and never given a chance.
In addition – if a young pitcher had a losing record regardless of how “well” they pitched they would get no benefit of the doubt.
Just look what the reaction to Ian Kennedy was. Look at the absurd reaction that lingers even now amongst some yankee fans about a few post game comments Kennedy once made.
Players must learn at the big league level. And yes even most plus pitchers need to learn to develop their pitches at the big league level.
Just look at Drabek – he’s not very eager to use his change up. Don’t think he’s thrown even one tonight. And that’s against a very left handed line up.
But between the media and the fan base it’s brutal for a young yankee player to develop unless they are Jeter or Pettite and that’s not a model that is sustainable.
Gardner looked safe on the slow mo.
Why are you looking to home plate. Just a disaterous inning for Brett.
Gardy is really struggling.
damn, molina is money throwing out runners…
Bad inning for Gardner.
He’s been thrown out by a lot that last 2 times
That inning was a complete multi-dimensional small ball failure.
might as well have been a pitch out
it was so obvious Gardner was going, I’m surprised they didn’t pitch out.
oh well
Blake, that’s true. Well, the Yankees have many good pitching prospects – all we need is 2 or 3 to pan out.
DocTodd April 19th, 2011 at 8:34 pm
Phil Rizzuto is a better bunter than Gardner….even though Phil’s dead….
————–
Holy Cow!!!!!
I wanna like Gardner, but he is what he is. A bench player.
Lets see….lead off double. Failed Sac attempt, fly ball, thrown out stealing. That’s not how you draw it up.
This could be a dangerous inning for Burnett. He needs to hold them here.
rr212 April 19th, 2011 at 8:37 pm
I wanna like Gardner, but he is what he is. A bench player.
=====
I hold out hope that he’s more than that.
But that hope is quickly dwindling…
CB, I can’t disagree………….that’s how it is in Boston as well – probably Philly
Snider hasn’t come within a foot of AJ’s curveball.
“Why are we bunting in the 5th??????????? And 0 outs???”
Especially against a team that is loaded with home run power.
How is one run in the 5th going to be some life altering event in this game against this team.
I still think that Gardy will be fine–it’s just a matter of time before he turns it around. He’s pressing right now.
The most frustrating thing rite now with Gardner is when the pitch is a strike rite down the middle he looks at it go by. Does the the guy know one pitch from another ? Poor selection.
Gardner is more of a pest to his own team than the opposition.
I believe him and his .385 OBP last year was the peak offensively.
I really think Gardner needs to stop trying to be what everyone wants him to be and just play the game. He’s trying to take pitches, he’s trying to steal, he’s trying to bunt. He’s pressing badly it seems. He needs to just relax and let the game come instead of trying to force everything.
CB–
“They Jays have not produced pitchers who have had sustained success at the major league level yet. ”
______________
Roy Halladay
Chris Carpenter
Shawn Marcum
That inning is the classic example why the most overrated aspect of the game is speed.
Everything that took place in that inning is why playing small ball was dumb.
You have a guy who can’t bunt, bunt in the 5th inning of a tie game with AJ Burnett on the mound.
A guy who, the chances of him being able to hold a 1 run lead is slim.
Gardner does what he always does in that situation. Fail miserably.
Then, to try and atone for the mistake, runs himself out of the inning.
Swing the bat, drop 5th inning bunts, and stop playing NL Baseball. It’s unnecessary.
Good inning AJ
Gardner doesn’t have enough of a resume for us to assume he’s going to be ok. It’s way too early to say he won’t, but it’s more like a wait and see game.
Great inning by AJ after the last….that’s what he needed. Lets get him some runs.
Great job by AJ!
the fact that AJ’s pitch count (77 through 5) is as low as it is despite 8 Jays reaching base and only 2 runs is something the Yanks can’t let get away.
Jays should/could have 4-5 runs right now. Time to make them pay for their lost opportunities.
and so it becomes a bullpen game…advantage NY.
it seems like Gardner’s taking what happening at the plate with him on the bases. It’s usually not that close.
“That inning is the classic example why the most overrated aspect of the game is speed.”
==================
perhaps – but it’s easy to say that after the Yankees completely misplayed it
if he had successfully gotten the bunt down (not that hard), the Yanks very well could be up 3-2 going into the later innings of the game.
IF the Yanks goal is to have a lead going into the 6th/7th inning of the game and assume it’s a done deal after that…
… it’s not that horrendous of an idea.
Just very poorly executed.
Gardner just seems like he’s thinking too much…..”im supposed to be a pest and take pitches so I will”, “I’m supposed to steal every time I get on base so here I go”…..he just needs to play the game….he’s forcing everything and it’s not working.
igotid88 April 19th, 2011 at 8:42 pm
it seems like Gardner’s taking what happening at the plate with him on the bases. It’s usually not that close.
——————————————
I think that Molina deserves a little credit too. It was a nice throw by him…
Lead off man on again. Let’s see if Tex can get a good AB here.
CB–
BTW–I wouldn’t bet against the Jays GM–seems like a really sharp guy. Invested heavily in top scouts, and I suspect he’ll put a premium on development. Let’s wait and see what they can do with their current class of pitchers.
Time for Tex to wake up…. .216 avg
when it rains, it pours. gardner will get a couple of hits in one game, steal a base and he’ll be alright. i dont know if he’s gonna be able to keep his starting job, but he’s not THIS bad a player.
.216 is high for Tex in April.
Yanks will make us all forget the Top of the 5th ever happened with some runs here!
Singy called it.
THIS ONE IS GONE!
That ball was crushed….got it down where he could handle it.
Tex!!!
Yes!
An international text message costs extra.
Atta boy TEX!!!!
*tex message.
Tex message and a god damn it from Drabek!
Like I said, time for Tex to wake up!
touche!
yeah, teixeira needs to get it going, leading the league in HR isnt enough.
Bojo,
Seriously. Do you think I don’t know they developed Roy Halladay?
That was years ago. And years ago was not the context of the discussion.
I was referring to this current regime and the tail end of the prior one. That was the context of the discussion – the current Jays development regime.
Roy Halladay was a rookie in 1999. The current Jays management team had nothing to do with him.
Same for Carpenter.
Shawn Marcum also for the most part. And even then Marcum had one injury after another with the jays. He was part of that entire generation of arms the Jays had that they just chewed through. Again – that was part of the context of the discussion.
IF the Yanks goal is to have a lead going into the 6th/7th inning of the game and assume it’s a done deal after that…
… it’s not that horrendous of an idea.
Just very poorly executed.
–
The bunt in that situation would increase the chance of scoring 1 run…while decreasing the odds of a big inning. With a runner on 2nd 0 outs and the top of the order coming up, you don’t bunt.
You basically throw away a big inning chance.
In the 5th inning of an AL game, against a HR hitting team, bunting is dumb.
If it’s such a great play, why not have Tex bunt?
It’s dumb, and Tex shows why it’s ok to swing the bat. It’s the AL.
Granderson is getting hot, which augurs well for NY. The Yanks always seem to score a lot of runs when he’s hitting.
TEX!!! Looks like another 6 inning game
SJ –
1. Welcome back. Long time, no see….
2. I wonder if part of the reason Gardner tried sac bunting there is because he’s mired in such a horrible slump, less chance of a clean single.
CB April 19th, 2011 at 8:47 pm – great post.
“I wouldn’t bet against the Jays GM–seems like a really sharp guy. Invested heavily in top scouts, and I suspect he’ll put a premium on development. Let’s wait and see what they can do with their current class of pitchers.”
Bojo,
Just a suggestion – before you jump into a discussion figure out what was being discussed.
CB April 19th, 2011 at 7:20 pm
Anthpolous did a great job with that trade for Doc. Given the circumstances, it was one of the better trades any GM has made over the past couple of seasons.
Drabek has star potential.
If Marrow is healthy and throwing how he was at the end of last season the Jays have one of the best young staffs in the game.
Yanks hitting Drabek hard this inning.
SJ44, you must absolutely LOVE that contract Boston gave to Crawford!
His speed isn’t even able to be used. He doesn’t look like a baseball player to me and never has.
I believe Cashman knew this all along and took Crawford out to dinner, making Theo become eager and signing him to the largest contract ever for an outfielder.
Well now the Yanks are set up to win game one here. Be nice way to start out the week wearing the Greys
that ball is down.
I see Toronto adopted the Sox “yankees suck” chant.
Always good when you chant that to the team that is winning, and ahead of you in the standings, and has been for the last 15 years.
Please clear the bases before Gardner comes up
i would normally agree with both of you guys about bunting in that situation, but the batter was in a terrible slump and has speed to burn and its (fake) turf, so i get it.
Damn Stoudamire out for the game
“That ball was crushed….got it down where he could handle it.”
What a difference in how he handled that pitch and the mistake he got up in the zone earlier in the game.
Wow Posada is sooooo sloooooww
uhhh…………. How did Posada still get throw out by that much?
“SJ44, you must absolutely LOVE that contract Boston gave to Crawford! ”
—————-
correct me if I’m wrong, but SJ44 was one of the bigger proponents for the Yanks paying big $$ for Crawford because he was one of the true elite players.
it’s a wee bit early to tell if he was right or wrong.
“CB April 19th, 2011 at 8:47 pm – great post.”
What?
No it wasn’t. It was amongst the least interesting posts I’ve ever made here.
In general Bojo points about the game are fine.
But it’s just pointless to have someone take an entire discussion out of context.
Anyway, no it was not a great post.
I’m surprised they’re pitching to martin……
Crawford’s slow start isn’t a big deal. I chalk it up to adjusting to a totally new team, opening on the road and getting into a slump early like many players do. He’s too good a ballplayer for that to continue.
if they were smart they would walk martin to face gardner.
CB,
He just really can’t handle a good fastball up in the zone from the left side unless he cheats to get to it….but he can hammer mistakes in the middle of the zone down.
Jerkface/SJ44,
not disagreeing that the bunt play was a bad one…. just that if it had been executed properly, we wouldn’t even be discussing it.
a questionable decision is always a bad one when it doesn’t work out. doesn’t make it the right decision…
but a 3-2 lead, in theory, with the Yanks pen isn’t the worst place to be.
i do agree with you both though.
I thought it was!
Chase,
Here’s what happens in a situation like Crawford’s.
Gets off to a slow start, he presses, and he starts trying to do things he’s not capable of doing.
Like spreading out in the box as if he’s going to start yamking pitches.
His speed defensively is negated 50% of the time because he’s playing in Fenway Park.
He doesn’t get on base enough to use his speed effectively.
He’s definitely not a 20 million player because the ways he can help a team are effectively negated by his limitations.
He’s a very good player. But, he’s limited.
Only Jed Lowrie acting like Babe Ruth for a week is giving him some breathing room right now.
Boston is just not a fit for a guy with his skillset.
Joe,
Gardner is in the classic slump. He’s in between everything.
At this point, he has no choice but dig himself out of it.
If he doesn’t in the next month, he may end up in a platoon situation with Jones.
It looks like Gardner is going to get a chance to help the club.
Grand Slam Gardner
I’d really like to see Gardner come through here….that might could get him going.
Let’s go Gardner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Grrrreat….
Gardner with three on.
Will we see a Grand Slam?
All right Gardner. Redeem yourself. Slap a base hit to left.
Brett is due
“I thought it was!”
Don’t get me involved with your stupid, endless arguments.
I have no interest in being even remotely associated with them.
Redemption here we go!!!!
sj, we were chatting about tabata yesterday and why he left the yankees organization. i happened to be at the game where he flipped out after not hustling after a couple of balls, then went off on tony franklin in front of everybody. my impression at the time was that the thunder threw him off the team before i ever heard the yankees took any action and i suspect that franklin threw down the ‘its him or me’ card.
i wanted to ask you if a minor league affiliate can throw a player from the parent organization off a team, and what happens if the minor league team says they wont take a guy back, can the parent organizaton force them to take him?
the thunder are a strong well-run franchise with a long history that goes way back before the yankees (years as a red socks affiliate) and i think they were going to back their manager as far as they could and i was wondering if you had any insight into the ‘powers’ of the parties in a an ‘affiliation.
id appreciate any insight you might have.
well, we;ll see if getting something here gets brett going
that was a high strike
just draw a walk
Wow. That was NOT a strike.
High heat. That’s the book on Gardner now. Here you go – hit it.
“that was a high strike”
and outside
best thing he can do is take a walk.
Gardner is slumping and the ump calls high AND away a strike
well c’mon BG, let’s get on base here.. build some confidence in yourself and your teammates !!!
Come on BG, I’ll forgive your for your horrible start if you get a hit here.
you for your***
Here comes a fastball Gardy….square it up
How did he lay off that 2-2 pitch??
Let’s go Brett!!!! Prove me wrong!!!
BD,
I was never in favor of giving Carl Crawford 20 million bucks a year.
I was in favor of making a run at him because he is a better fit for the Yankees than Red Sox.
Although, I believe the Angels were the best fit for his services.
Once the numbers got stupid, passing on him was the right thing to do.
Here comes another fastball Gardy
Let’s go Gardner.
wow, failure….
Gardner please walk
Gardner please walk
Gardner please walk
Gardner you suck.
Gardner sucks
What can we say?
Damn. Still, it was a good at-bat…
Gardner losing support by the AB
Another useless AB
it was a toss up as of last week who looked more lost at the plate Gardner or Jeter.. It’s obvious now it’s BG but still Jete’s isn’t where I want him to be yet.. I am happy that he is looking better then he did 2 weeks ago.. so that’s a big plus.. for so many reasons as hard of a time I give Jeter here on this blog.. I truly do want him to succeed.
Gardner gets 2 fastballs he knows are coming right down the middle and is still late on both. He’s really struggling getting his timing down.
Knicks need a scoring surge now. Melo is doing his part.
What did he do we don’t have the game here?
What an awful swing he has….just flicks at the ball.
Jeter has hit the ball hard 3 games in a row now….doesn’t have a lot of hits to show for it but he’s making much better contact. He’s hit the ball hard 3 times tonight.
wow, Gardner just completely choked on that swing.. why would he try and put it in the air? Just goes to show you how bad of a slump he’s in.. at this point, when Arod comes back I’d see about giving Chavez some LF time .. if not possible, than for sure Jones over Grrr-dner !
P.S. I’ve been watching BG for years in Tampa .. I had a baseball crush on him, but this is just terrible.
hopefully AJ can handle the long top half of the inning here. Be awesome to win this opener.
Last year Gardner would have hit one of those two pitches hard the opposite way.
He’s really struggling with his swing.
He looks like he’s almost over adjusted.
Rather than keeping his front shoulder closed and maximizing this skill set he’s opening up his hips and trying to be a hitter he just isn’t.
Gardner should just hack away. Forget about walks.
gardner is lost but sometimes all it takes is one good swing to start the pendulum in the other direction.
Y’s,
A team can’t unilaterally throw a guy off a team unless the parent team signs off on it.
Tabata’s problems were pretty complex.
Lied about his age by perhaps as much as 4 years.
Lied about being married. Then, when he came clean, his wife was not only 18-20 years older than he was, she tried to shake the Yankees down for “hush money” to keep everything quiet.
Not exactly how you want to present yourself to your boss! lol
Add to it numerous fights with teammates and the manager, some physical, and it was clear a change of scenery was in order.
He’s had some incidents in Pittsburgh too.
He is off to a good start.
However, the perception of what his ceiling might be differs greatly depending on his real age.
Hopefully, he’s grown up and gives himself a chance at having a career because he possesses some nice tools.
“”"blake April 19th, 2011 at 9:05 pm
Jeter has hit the ball hard 3 games in a row now….doesn’t have a lot of hits to show for it but he’s making much better contact. He’s hit the ball hard 3 times tonight”"”
I did say that he is showing improvement, and I’ll take it ! He really needs to stop swinging at the first 2 pitches tho..
Roy Halladay just got smacked around.
2 quick fouls on Melo. He has 4 now.
bally flop slide looked alot like the lame slide hamilton broke his arm on
Cano catches that he’s out
Melo is a beast
Roy Halladay just got smacked around.
–
Where is Patrick?
Head first slides are not worth the risk. The chance for injury is far higher than the benefit from the hand/arm being smaller than the foot/leg.
C’mon AJ!
“Once the numbers got stupid, passing on him was the right thing to do.”
—————
SJ44,
Once the Sox offered him $142M, there was no “passing on him”… the pen was on the paper faster than Crawford to 1st.
Molina just never seems to age either. All those games behind the dish and dude can still play.
cb i agree totallly, especially when you are that bad at it. he almost had to do the breast stroke to make it to the bag.
At least AJ is pitching to win so far this year
ERA’s not exactly low, but he’s winning
it’s kinda nice
CB–
My apologies from earlier. I am multi-tasking with some Illustrator files and didn’t keep up with the conversation.
“Bojo,
Seriously. Do you think I don’t know they developed Roy Halladay?”
————-
I think Bojo did curse Halladay.
How often does he allow 12 men to reach safely in 6 innings with 6 of them crossing home plate??
Knicks probably will lose again, damn
don’t know where that pitched missed.
Pull him now. This is gettin old. Walkin slop.
So is this were D Rob warms up again and doesn’t get in the game
Got to het AJ out of there now. One mistake to Encarnacion, new ballagame.
Way too many walks tonight to guys he should own.
Walking patterson is sinful
BD (Boston Dave) April 19th, 2011 at 9:14 pm
“Bojo,
Seriously. Do you think I don’t know they developed Roy Halladay?”
————-
I think Bojo did curse Halladay.
How often does he allow 12 men to reach safely in 6 innings with 6 of them crossing home plate??
____________
Well, then add Cliff Lee and Roy Oswalt to the list of pitchers that Jays developed…
“”"Carl April 19th, 2011 at 9:09 pm
Roy Halladay just got smacked around.”"”
Yankees own Halladay.. it’s Lee we can’t get a piece of.
Knicks game is fun now.
Knicks don’t get any calls
I really don’t know how AJ can resist throwing at that obnoxious Toronto fan that keeps taunting him with the singsong, “AJ” jeer. I would love to throw at the little prick myself!
for all the talk about the yankees SP woes, they are 9-5 (threatening to go 10-5) and cc is 0-1.
Martin tends to get a litle wild with his throws.
Bojo,
No problem. I’m always happy to discuss the game when it’s taken seriously. We’ve had good conversations in the past. I was honestly just surprised.
Staying way too long with AJ.
84-84
SJ called it. Clueless Joe strikes again
it’s like they don’t have faith in D-Rob
Why Joe??
So typical of AJ. Walk slop and throw down the middle because he can’t locate. The most annoying pitcher to watch in baseball. Mental midget. Leave him in Joe.
Seriously, another batter?
YsGuy April 19th, 2011 at 9:17 pm
for all the talk about the yankees SP woes, they are 9-5 (threatening to go 10-5) and cc is 0-1.
——————————————–
Power will cover a world of problems for a while…
SJ44 April 19th, 2011 at 9:16 pm
Got to het AJ out of there now. One mistake to Encarnacion, new ballagame.
Way too many walks tonight to guys he should own.
—-
So right man, we just got very lucky !!!
CB–
I have great respect for you and several others here. I should have checked the discuswsion, but I just wanted to post my admiration for the Jays GM…a very talented young fellow IMO.
Still working on other stuff, so I won’t be keeping up here.
oh boy….. would take him out now.
before he gives up the lead
Another game where Girardi stays too long with a starter.
A habit he’s gotten into all month and it’s costing this team games.
He still won’t pull him.
I guess Girardi is uninterested in winning this game tonight.
Isn’t this a perfect D Rob inning? Y have a lockdown pen if u don’t use it
why is still in??/
he seems to just hit a wall around 90 pitches.
Enough of AJ with the walks and the inability to throw strikes to the bottom of the Blue Jay order. BP please. (Robertson)
“SJ called it. Clueless Joe strikes again”
—————
Is there anyone here who didn’t call it????
Girardi isn’t winning any manager of the year awards anytime soon. His management of the pitching staff and bullpen so far is as questionable as it gets.
Where is Patrick?
—
He’s just trying to trick the non believers!
Absolutely horrendous managing. Why just get someone up now when Burnett has thrown 100 pitches in the 6th. You have 2nd and 3rd with 1 out and CAN’T bring someone in because you didn’t have someone up.
Maybe we will get lucky and get out of this – but there is no excuse.
Isn’t this a perfect D Rob inning? Y have a lockdown pen if u don’t use it
___
not until the bases are loaded.
that’s robertson’s time to shine.
But now I’m sure he’ll bring D Rob with bases loaded n he’ll give up 2 inherited runs.
I guess that Joe wants AJ to learn to get out of these jams…Bad call IMO.
SJ44,
Not being sarcastic.. Have you ever managed a baseball team? You seem to have a very good lock on it.
Again the refs don’t call a foul on the Celtics
This is bordering on manager malpractice at this point.
AJ should have been out of this game 3 hitters ago.
Also another reason why bunting in the 5th inning was dumb.
This was never going to be a 3-2 game.
AJ is what he is. A solid 5 inn pitcher. Y overdo it?
“”"SJ44 April 19th, 2011 at 9:20 pm
Another game where Girardi stays too long with a starter.
A habit he’s gotten into all month and it’s costing this team games.
He still won’t pull him.
I guess Girardi is uninterested in winning this game tonight.
“”"”"
———–
What do you think Big Stein would think of Joe G’s managing skills ?
now it is robertson’s turn to go.
awesome AJ, could not get out of this inning…
Ace April 19th, 2011 at 9:21 pm
But now I’m sure he’ll bring D Rob with bases loaded n he’ll give up 2 inherited runs.
——————————-
that seems to always be the plan when it comes to Robertson
Lucky a walk was all there. D Rob can still salvage this disaster now.
Love Cone. Glad he is back.
I think we’ve seen this movie before.
And I thought bunting in the 5th would worst move of night. Never count out Clueless Joe.
Hopefully, D-Rob can get us out of it. I don’t fault Joe for trying to get AJ through 6.
Carmelo has been playing the whole 2nd half
for once can AJ make a big pitch.
Cone is a straight shooter,telling it like it is…
Melo=Money
This is likely the highest leverage inning of the entire game.
And the pitcher deemed to be the 4th best relief pitcher the yankees have is going to pitch it.
The Jays now have a 50% chance of winning this game. And the best arm isn’t being used to put out the fire.
In fact not even the second best arm is being used.
Cone is right, when you need to get tough, AJ looks like a deer in the headlights.
——————————————-
Hey Girardi, let’s wait for AJ to load the bases, then bring in Robertson.
What is Cone saying?
D-Rob’s got this man.. this guy is getting better and better.. sure he is no Mo, but I’m liking this D-Rob a lot.. Hey.. whatever happened to Damaso Marte????
D Rob can be wild at times. No walks. Take a sac fly at this point. Get out of it at least tied.
In the blink of an eye AJ loses his command and is now gone. Thank goodness, hopefully DRob can get us out of the inning still up 4-3.
I’m awfully proud of the Knicks………the Celtics can’t shake them
This is where DRob earns his paychecks. Hopefully.
AJ stunk today.
So who’s going to get the blame? Phil or Nova?
Unreal.
How in the world can anybody justify the job being done on the bench tonight?
Bunting in the 5th inning, leaving AJ pretty much to blow game, it’s mind boggling.
The strength of the team is it’s bullpen. The weakness is starting pitching.
Yet, Girardi puts the bullpen in a position to lose the game by not taking AJ out and have Robertson pitch to Encarnacion. Especially since Encarnacion hits AJ well.
If that’s not enough, he leaves him out there to walk the #9 hitter AGAIN.
That’s managerial malpractice at it’s finest.
Did D-Rob just throw a cutter???? That looked liek a Mo pitch !!
bunting in the fifth was more about gardner being unable to hit.
Interesting to hear Cone talk about pitching indecisiveness.
get this K….
P April 19th, 2011 at 9:28 pm
Did D-Rob just throw a cutter???? That looked liek a Mo pitch !!
—————————————-
I think so. Buck Martiez was just remarking on it.
wonder how that looked in 3-d
Big K
good job Robertson
Free D-Rob!
swing and a miss
wow……
this is why we see him in situations with runners on and Joba starting the 7th.
SJ44:
“That’s managerial malpractice at it’s finest.”
—-
How long can the Yankees Brass keep on overlooking this? I mean they have to pick up on this too, right??? I know George wouldn’t tolerate the manager costing us games once.. but 3 or 4x now??????? He’d been fired a long time ago !
D-Rob can be very tough with guys on base and the game in the balance.
This guy is htting .143 just slightly better than Gardner at .130
I don’t have any issue at all with Gardner’s bunt. When you are in a pronounced slump often it’s a “small ball hit” that gets you going.
Lucky that patterson didnt try it there. couldve made it
truthfully, with Robertson’s stuff……
I wouldn’t be opposed to him taking over if Rivera ever retires.
nice play martin.
Robertson may have the most difficult job in the entire pen.
Girardi really puts him in the worst possible positions to enter a game.
Girardi leaves the starters in to long and creates a fire.
And once things are burning he brings in Robertson.
Otherwise its just another day of getting loose yet again in the pen.
and the Knicks lose a lead in the last minute again
Robertson’s middle name must be Houdini.
D-ROB!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh my, knicks only have one player can score
HELL YEAH D-ROB!!!
DRob!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
wow did he break his bat over his knee?
Wow David Robertson
I kind of feel bad for Snider, he just cannot hit a breaking ball to save his life
P April 19th, 2011 at 9:31 pm
SJ44:
“That’s managerial malpractice at it’s finest.”
—-
How long can the Yankees Brass keep on overlooking this? I mean they have to pick up on this too, right??? I know George wouldn’t tolerate the manager costing us games once.. but 3 or 4x now??????? He’d been fired a long time ago !
—————————————————–
The old man is long gone. Joe will get a ton of latitude as a result of the WS win in ’09.
Nice work, D-Rob!
Send DRob his paycheck.
“and the Knicks lose a lead in the last minute again”
————-
i think they have about 35 offensive rebounds though. when you’re rebounding the ball like that, you have a chance to win.
D=Rob=Money
Snyder is a beast.
They should give him the save
Yes Rob.
Robertson’s curve ball is sick!
lmao!!! Wow
Great job by Robertson. Does what AJ can’t.
The fact that they are in the game says a ton – I mean, they’re without 2 of their big guns
And that’s who should have come after he got molina
HaHa! He broke the bat over his knee. LOL. Nice pitching D Rob.
What a terrific way to bail out Girardi. Surprised Girardi didn’t bring in Logan to face the lefty!!!
Awesome Awesome job.
Time to tack on 4-5 more runs and put a wall around the game.
I’d rather have Juan Pierre or Corey Patterson than Brett Gardner at this point.
Gardner lacks some serious “instinct” when it comes to stealing bases and fundamental baseball such as bunting.. it’s almost like a waste of legs.. I don’t get why they don’t have BG practiving bunting at least 30m a day !
Knicks have to stop going for 3′s now. Go to the basket. Force the foul
That’s what Rovertson’s value to the yankees is….come into a mess and clean it up by throwing unhittable curves.
They really need to bring in D-Rob before the bases are loaded. He is a good guy to use as a fireman because of his high K rate, low Hr rate, and low hit rate, but his walk rate is huge. You need to give him a little room to work with.
This is why Girardi doesn’t give Robertson Joba’s 7th inning job. He saves him for the times when the game’s on the line. Vast majority of the time, Robertson succeeds.
Unreal. Robertson may be the most underrated relief pitcher in baseball.
It’s amazing that Girardi does not give him more work.
The yankee bull pen is achieving a level of rote management by recipe that Tony La Russa never even came close because he never had access to the resources.
Robertson threw the ball absolutely great that inning.
Let’s see if he stays in the game to pitch to the heart of the Jays order. Given how good his stuff has been he should absolutely pitch the 7nth.
Boston looks terrible defensively.
Perhaps this is just perception, but it seems DROb raises his game a notch when the bases are full. Right now, I can’t see him replacing Mo because he walks too many until under extreme pressure. A very unique young pitcher. Hopefully, he learns to focus as much on preventing walks when the bases are empty.
God, I am soooooo nervous
I’d rather have Juan Pierre or Corey Patterson than Brett Gardner at this point.
–
Juan Pierre has blown 2 games on defense and has 5 caught stealings.
Knicks are really doing this with 1 player
Jerkface April 19th, 2011 at 9:34 pm
They really need to bring in D-Rob before the bases are loaded. He is a good guy to use as a fireman because of his high K rate, low Hr rate, and low hit rate, but his walk rate is huge. You need to give him a little room to work with.
————————————————
Good point. He’s also been known to bounce that hook of his.
Seriously, A.J. needs to pie Robertson after this game.
No, a small ball hit doesn’t get you going.
Mainly because, he not only wasn’t bunting for a hit, he can’t bunt.
It was a dumb play in the 5th inning of an AL game.
Robertson saves his managers butt……for the time being.
How about this novel suggestion……
How about we stop trying to take the most power laden team in MLB a “small ball” team?
They aren’t one, nor will they ever be.
Unless those of you who love small ball crave for 82-80 seasons.
I would bet Girardi brings in Joba and keeps on formula
Jefferies of all ppl
And the reason for bringing in Joba is so DRob is available tomorrow.
CB-Unless Girardi gets tossed this inning there’s no way D-Rob gets the chance to pitch the 7th!!
That’s another problem Girardi has, he often goes one and out with his relievers and then gets stuck short later on.
“”"CB,
Girardi really puts him in the worst possible positions to enter a game.”"”
Yes true, good point.. I never wanted Girardi to manage this team.. ever !! I can’t stand him. I mean, he is a super nice guy, I have talked to him a couple times.. I”d much rather of went with Mattingly..
Is Joe G’s manager contract up this year?? OR was it last year and they resigned him?
Robertson is very good…………not great, but very good, and he’s got the guts of a burglar.
If Rivera ever retired, either Brackman or Tommy Kahnle in Charleston will close. Really good change-up and a moving 98 MPH fastball.
Man the knicks game is making me nervous
i give joe a long leash as far as working the bullpen, i think he’s got a good track record there.
as for old george, im not missing his meddling into manager’s decisions, he didnt know on-field baseball and the more he interfered, the worse things got.
his genius was in branding and investing in that brand. brilliant and before his time there.
i guess with this starting pitching, we can call d-rob the 6th inning guy?
They need another run.
It’d be nice if we can tack on a run, or two, here. I don’t think that 4 runs is going to be enough to nail down this win.
*bites tongue* – *sigh* – *JETER!*
So ,let me guess. The binder says JOBA.
Boston has too many weapons
If George were around today, he sure wouldn’t smell too good.
Grandy!!!!!!
Granderson coming around on righties…
Grandy man can!!!!
Grandy!!
GreenBeret7 April 19th, 2011 at 9:37 pm
If Rivera ever retired, either Brackman or Tommy Kahnle in Charleston will close. Really good change-up and a moving 98 MPH fastball.
_______________________________________________________________________
GB isn’t Soriano the heir apparent?
It was a smart play and effort from someone who isn’t hitting. He has good speed and in the 5th it isn’t critical. Cheap hits often lead to players breaking out of slumps; I’ve seen that for years.
all the knicks can ask for another shot to win it.
CGRANNNNND!!!
Sterling singing is hilarious.
I think Granderson’s getting the knack of this hitting thing.
Crap Knicks are gonna lose again
Ghostwriter,
I dunno how much ’09 is going to give Joe G man.. They say you’re only as good as your last game .. but my Dad just told me, “Hal thinks the world of Girardi, because he is controllable” then he called him a “kissbutt”.
Knicks choked again lol
Like I said, put the bunt in your pocket.
This team hits HR’s. It’s what they do.
Every time they bunt, they give away outs which lessen the chances of them scoring.
It’s baseball, not brain surgery.
Those who try to make it more complicated simply don’t understand the game.
Go Celts!
Knicks fail…. What a lousy pass.
Oh my, Knicks only have one real player, the other ones are just retarded
Oh please, the Knicks choked?
Wonder if that fan who make the catch of Granderson’s HR can hit enough to play LF……
Wow, I love Curtis man, he is such an awesome Yankee.. Let’s keep him in the #2 spot.. rotate the 9 hole with Jeter and Gardner.
A little cushion – nice.
Bunting with 0 outs man on 2nd as a lefty hitter isn’t a smart play. No matter how mired in a slump you are.
Whatever……….
With both infielders playing half way to home to cut off the bunt. Its better to try and swing for a groundball.
P April 19th, 2011 at 9:40 pm
Ghostwriter,
I dunno how much ’09 is going to give Joe G man.. They say you’re only as good as your last game .. but my Dad just told me, “Hal thinks the world of Girardi, because he is controllable” then he called him a “kissbutt”.
=================================
Your dad sounds like a wise man!
Jeter should just stay at the top.
He is starting to hit harder and to the opposite field.
Gardner, he shouldn’t be anywhere.
Soriano won’t close for at least two years.
He wasn’t bunting for a hit. He was sacrificing the guy over to second.
It was a dumb play.
I hope they will be swept
Knicks crumble again in the last two minutes. They haven’t won a playoff game in over 10 years, sad.
I like Cano’s approach of trying to be more patient tonight.
Can we stop talking about the stupid bunt? It was a bunt and it was stupid, get over it. If you think it wasn’t stupid you’re wrong.
Also, Phil Hughes.
“”"”SJ44 April 19th, 2011 at 9:41 pm
Like I said, put the bunt in your pocket.”"”"
——————
Even Gardner? C’mon that guy should be a bunting machine !
——————
Grandy has more solo HR in a single season than anybody.. he loves to smash the ball when nobody is on!! How can a guy like that have so much power.. it’s amazing! His bat is so quick too.
Keep Grandy in the 2 spot.
Or Swish.
Celts!!
Would it have killed Jefferies to take the ball strong to the hole after getting the pass from Melo
ac1 April 19th, 2011 at 9:43 pm
Jeter should just stay at the top.
He is starting to hit harder and to the opposite field.
Gardner, he shouldn’t be anywhere.
———————————————
Jeter and Grnderson should make a nice one-two punch. I expect that Gardner will come around in time. The Yanks can afford to carry him around in the 9-hole. Last year we dragged around an unproductive Tex in the 3-hole, for nearly 2 months.
Obviously some Nets fans here…………
JoSoMo time.
I don’t understand how a guy with 42 pts and 17 rebounds doesn’t get the ball with the game on the line. Are you kidding me, Jeffries!!
Brett Gardner also can’t bunt.
So, you are going to “get a guy going”, by having him do what he’s weakest at? I don’t think so.
He was bunting to move a guy over with 0 outs in a tie game in the AL.
It was a dumb play.
In this case SJ I feel you don’t understand the game. There you have it.
Not quite Betsy.
No, melo got double teamed every time he got the ball in the final two mins
If the Knicks are able to have Billups, Stoudamire and Anthony for the rest of the series. I believe we can take the series. But it doesn’t like they all will be healthy.
No SJ – you THINK it’s a dumb play. That does not make it so. When a hitter is slumping that badly you try to get on anyway you can. He has great speed he doesn’t have to bunt perfectly to have a shot.
Girardi baking a cake.
It was a dumb play.
___
Did he move anyone over anytime tonight?
He pops up everything.
They were hoping to at least get Martin to 3rd.
# Betsy April 19th, 2011 at 9:46 pm
Obviously some Nets fans here…………
————————————-
Nets have fans
i keed i keed
Joe ‘By The Book’ Girardi strikes again…….
I am pissed again by knicks
Last time I was at the stadium and Gardner was up someone yelled, “Who needs a pool boy, we have a GARDNER!!”
Thought I’d share
Andruw Jones is going to become this team’s everyday left fielder soon. I hope he can hold up, or they’ll have to get a reserve from AAA.
nice K Joba
Joba!
Come get some.
Igotid, I give up – the basketball fates are just too cruel. I don’t believe in that stuff generally, but this is ridiculous, with Amare and Billups out. I’m glad they don’t play for 2 more days – I’m almost sorry they have to play another game as they always end the same way. This team has come a long way and they are on their way to being a very good team. I hope the Celtics get so tired from this series that they collapse in the next.
why cant Robertson stay in the game?
cmon joe, I get it.
I dont care that Joba is getting the job done. It’s the principle.
DRob is throwing the ball well, so you ride him for another batter or two.
You’re taking chances when you take a guy out who you KNOW has it tonight, for a guy you HOPE has it.
Joe ‘By The Book’ Girardi strikes again…….
___
What?
This is what they do.
Now Robertson is available tomorrow instead of pitching the 7th and not being available tomorrow.
Tommy Kahnle, 4 games, 1-1 record, 8 innings, 5 hits, 5 runs, 1 earned run, 4 walks, 15 strikeouts. Since signing last season, 24 innings, 40 strikeouts and 9 walks
Why is Girardi always the last person to notice when the wheels are coming off for the pitcher? It’s very odd that it keeps happening again and again and again.
Re: Knicks – Carl and Niblick can both suck it.
Minus Stat and Billups, those nobodies showed a lot of heart.
So, FU.
I get the sneaking suspicion that the Chavez acquisition is going to wind up being huge for us.
ac1 April 19th, 2011 at 9:52 pm
Joe ‘By The Book’ Girardi strikes again…….
___
What?
This is what they do.
Now Robertson is available tomorrow instead of pitching the 7th and not being available tomorrow.
Well the yanks have another day off Thursday
Hell of a play Jeter.
Jah-BUDDHA!
We can complain, but Joba still had a great inning. With another off day Thursday, I bet he and Robertson are still available tomorrow.
“No, melo got double teamed every time he got the ball in the final two mins”
—————
that’s the key.
injuries killed them and the rest of the team looked like they were afraid to shoot the ball.
they needed the other guys to step up at the end and they failed. Carmelo carried the team but can’t do much about double teams.
They better hope Amare is ok. Knicks outplayed the C’s for the most part in both games in Boston. they can win in NY if they play like this and figure out how to play the final 2 minutes.
Now Robertson is available tomorrow instead of pitching the 7th and not being available tomorrow
=–
But if they keep doing this eventually joba AND robertson are unavailable…
fantastic throw by Jete.
Solid inning from Joba against the heart of the order. Great job.
Nice inning by Yoba.
Nice play by Jeter…..and ya gotta root for Chavez….
Bx is Burning April 19th, 2011 at 9:53 pm
Re: Knicks – Carl and Niblick can both suck it.
Minus Stat and Billups, those nobodies showed a lot of heart.
So, FU.
I don’t like basketball anymore
Nice play by Chavez and Jeter.
SJ44,
Oh, I totally agree Gardner can’t bunt for crap.. he also can’t read pitchers moves and when/when not to steal.. but I am saying, Gardner absolutely should know how to bunt.. how is it possible when you have that type of speed to not know how to bunt??
At the very least, Garnder should be in the cages bunting 30m a day until he learns how.
If Boston plays Miami in next round, they will win and Miami becomes the NBA joke of the year
Granderson is hitting the ball very hard over and over and over now. Even his outs are hard.
You could see that shot coming all game.
What a weapon to have in CF. He has tremendous power for that position.
# igotid88 April 19th, 2011 at 9:49 pm
If the Knicks are able to have Billups, Stoudamire and Anthony for the rest of the series. I believe we can take the series. But it doesn’t like they all will be healthy.
================
Exactly, ‘if’.
West Coast,
The fact you think Gardner was bunting for a hit on that play disqualifies you on the “understanding the game” issue.
One thing I learned many years ago…..just turn on a basketball game in the last 2 minutes, that’s all you need to watch…..
Good, Carl, I’m glad you don’t.
So STFU about it.
“Since signing last season, 24 innings, 40 strikeouts and 9 walks”
—————
looks like Joba’s equally ridiculous minor league line
very nice.
I just don’t know what there isn’t to like about the Knicks – if I’m a Celtic fan, obviously I’m thrilled, but I’d want to know why the hell my team can’t beat a hobbled Knicks team filled with role players.
Shame Spencer April 19th, 2011 at 9:50 pm
Last time I was at the stadium and Gardner was up someone yelled, “Who needs a pool boy, we have a GARDNER!!”
Thought I’d share.
============
Good one.
“Granderson is hitting the ball very hard over and over and over now. Even his outs are hard.”
—————–
Even when he was struggling, you could see he was starting to become a tough out. He was able to lay off tough pitches and foul off pitcher’s pitches.
It was only a matter of time – he’s obviously seeing the ball better and he’s always had the bat speed.
“”"Ghostwriter April 19th, 2011 at 9:53 pm
I get the sneaking suspicion that the Chavez acquisition is going to wind up being huge for us.”"”
——
what do we do when Jeter gets the day off? Can Chavez play short? Man, if only he could.. It would be sweet that when Jeter gets his days off that we still had Arod and Chavez on left side of the IF. I’d love to see how that would work out if Alex played a little SS
I don’t even care about the series at this point – I just want one win, any win. I asked for a competititve series and I guess we’ve gotten it. I just think it wasn’t meant to be. One win – that’s all I want.
Plea don’t bunt.
Gardner will start hitting just like Swisher is now.
give it time. KLong won’t let the flaws in his swing go on too much longer.
Is it just me or does it seem like the NYY both offensive and pitching can’t play for crap in the cold/bad weather??
# Betsy April 19th, 2011 at 9:57 pm
‘I just don’t know what there isn’t to like about the Knicks’.
============
To start, Dolan, Isiah, No defense.
Betsy,
it doesn’t get much more competitive than the first 2 games. If you’re on the road in the playoffs, all you hope for is a legit chance to win the game at the end. Obviously knicks should have won at least one of those but they showed they can win in Boston if they can get the job done in NY.
Is it just me or does it seem like the NYY both offensive and pitching can’t play for crap in the cold/bad weather??
–
Its all our south american players.
Granderson is leading the team in pitches/pa. Near 5.
I would send down BG and call up Golson/Parraz/Maxwell
go ahead and pick one.
BD – one can argue, maybe not articulately, that Long created the flaws that Gardner currently has in his swing. The focus on both hands on the bat through the zone have him mechanical and late on every pitch.
More importantly, a win here could go a long way towards a real nice 5 game road stretch here given favorable pitching matchups in the majority of the games
DocTodd April 19th, 2011 at 9:56 pm
One thing I learned many years ago…..just turn on a basketball game in the last 2 minutes, that’s all you need to watch…..
*****
i used to advocate scrapping the 48 minute format replacing it with a best of 9 2-minute games.
“Is it just me or does it seem like the NYY both offensive and pitching can’t play for crap in the cold/bad weather??”
————–
they’re averaging 5.5 runs per game
but I’m sure the better weather will help.
Betsy April 19th, 2011 at 9:52 pm
Igotid, I give up – the basketball fates are just too cruel. I don’t believe in that stuff generally, but this is ridiculous, with Amare and Billups out. I’m glad they don’t play for 2 more days – I’m almost sorry they have to play another game as they always end the same way. This team has come a long way and they are on their way to being a very good team. I hope the Celtics get so tired from this series that they collapse in the next.
————————–
yea even though i said if we had all 3 of our main guys in there we would win the series. I kinda feel like we’ll mess it up. And the refs def won’t help us.
BD, I’m really upset for the team. I normally don’t get like this, but it seems so unfair to have lost Amare and then to lose a game like this………again. Melo was phenomenal- and Amare will hopefully be back in MSG. I just want them to win one game there – the fans deserve it and so, frankly, do the Knicks. I don’t even want to listen to the post-game – it’s just too hard, you know?
A lot of scouts, including Keith Law, thought Tommy Kahnle was one of the steals of the draft.
A guy with a huge arm and closer potential.
I don’t see him in Charleston for very long.
“BD – one can argue, maybe not articulately, that Long created the flaws that Gardner currently has in his swing. The focus on both hands on the bat through the zone have him mechanical and late on every pitch. ”
———–
perhaps – Gardner looked so much better last season. It’s why I think it’s just a matter of time for Gardner, though it requires him to make adjustments.
Perhaps CB can elaborate on it.
Swisher asleep at 1B on that ball that kicked away from Molina.
Wow I just realized that Chavez has only played in 150 games in the last 4 years in total.. 64 games in the last 3 years !!!
Wow, he must be super siked to be on the NYY with a part-time gig !
Yeesh! Does Posada take his treadmill out there with him?
“A lot of scouts, including Keith Law, thought Tommy Kahnle was one of the steals of the draft.”
—————-
as long as he’s not the next Mark Melancon SJ44
as soon as you said he could be a solid reliever, this board was claiming he’s the second coming of Mariano!!
(though he’s finally put together some good innings for Houston this season – nice to see)
Knicks need Chris Paul. Billups is too injury prone. Effective when healthy, but… Who knows how the cards play out with a future PG, but if you got a guy who can get the ball to Melo, Stat then I could see a great future. Kemba Walker would be great..lol
wasn’t Gardner banged up bad at the end of season last year and then had surgery this year?? Is it the surgery that has him so broken right now?
Hey Chad, any chance LoHud would support blog fans that are suffering with the MLB.TV@LG issues since Spring Training?
Anyone else here experience the same problems?
Hopefully this is a good day for Soriano
I wonder how many of the posters here were complaining about Torre’s bullpen use in the nineties.
Wait, I forgot many of these kids were not born yet
BD (Boston Dave) April 19th, 2011 at 10:03 pm
“BD – one can argue, maybe not articulately, that Long created the flaws that Gardner currently has in his swing. The focus on both hands on the bat through the zone have him mechanical and late on every pitch. ”
———–
perhaps – Gardner looked so much better last season. It’s why I think it’s just a matter of time for Gardner, though it requires him to make adjustments.
Perhaps CB can elaborate on it.
————————————-
I think that CB nailed it earlier. It looks like Gardy is tardy on everything, with his hips flying open. Last year he was slashing at the ball more.
SJ44 April 19th, 2011 at 9:56 pm
West Coast, The fact you think Gardner was bunting for a hit on that play disqualifies you on the “understanding the game” issue.
******************
You don’t get it with your by the book mentality. Whatever the case may be, a runner on base or not in the 5th inning of a game; with as poorly as Gardner is hitting the odds of him getting a hit or moving the runner swinging away are really small in my opinion. So a bunt is not a bad thing to try — and if it contributed to Gardner doing something positive and helping the team and maybe getting him out of his funk at the plate – that’s a good thing.
You’re entitled to your opinion – even though I have never seen you identify anything you say as your opinion, you just lecture and are arrogant.
BD (Boston Dave) April 19th, 2011 at 10:00 pm
Beg to differ. 1st game Anthony throws up a prayer from 30 feet when he should have drove to the hoop. (Plenty of time) Tonite no defense in the last two minutes.
BD – agree its just a matter of time……but relative outperformance from current levels isn’t much of an accomplishment. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him go back to his old approach.
Soriano rocking the long sleeves to make sure he is warm. I like that idea.
wasn’t Gardner banged up bad at the end of season last year and then had surgery this year?? Is it the surgery that has him so broken right now?
–
He got hurt right before he started to decline, in his wrist, and had surgery in the offseason to remove inflamed tissue. Wrist surgery usually affects a hitters swing, but mostly in the power department.
What then happened is that in addition to this surgery, K Long and Gardner went to a 2 hand approach to swinging the bat which has Gardner out of sync.
Molina’s stance is incredibly open face.
NY Fan in NH,
Paul, Anthony, and Amare would be ridiculous…
Miami vs NY for years to come if that happens.
the league surely wouldn’t mind.
Vineyard Yankee April 19th, 2011 at 9:59 pm
# Betsy April 19th, 2011 at 9:57 pm
‘I just don’t know what there isn’t to like about the Knicks’.
============
To start, Dolan, Isiah, No defense.
————————————–
they’ve been playing defense these last 2 games
Soriano using the El Duque long sleeves.
NYY fan in NH April 19th, 2011 at 10:05 pm
Paul, Walker maybe even Kobe. It’s only $$$$$$…………….LMAO !
where was that?
That was a perfect pitch
“I think that CB nailed it earlier. It looks like Gardy is tardy on everything, with his hips flying open. Last year he was slashing at the ball more.”
————
ahh, sorry, I missed that post.
He’s definitely tardy on everything – CB’s analysis sounds accurate.
‘they’ve been playing defense these last 2 games’……….
===============
It sure showed tonite as the Celtics past them and pulled away in the final 2 minutes.
Cory Patterson walks again.
He got a gift ball call though.
I admit that I shouldn’t be drawn into conversations where some are going to carp about the Knicks. They’ve every right to their opinion, but it’s not for me tonight – I’m so proud of them
NOW it’s a strike.
Soriano at 93-94 steady. That’s a positive sign.
Man that look on Soriano’s face. Anyone ever seen him smile?
How in the world do you walk Corey Patterson in that situation?
Just horrible pitching.
I don’t mind Gardner bunting to lead off an inning. But as long as the other guys can score you runs. You just gotta let him play through it.
Soriano at 93-94 steady. That’s a positive sign.
–
Asked Toronto to turn the AC up
I think all Gardner needs is to get a Hollywood girl-friend.
Even if married, it never stopped ARod.
“BD, I’m really upset for the team. I normally don’t get like this, but it seems so unfair to have lost Amare and then to lose a game like this………again.”
—————
nothing wrong with being upset – the Knicks played ON THE ROAD against a tough team and should have won. Losing Amare is huge. Just think how the Celtics felt when they lost Kendrick Perkins for Game 7 of the Finals last season – and he wasn’t half as important to them as Amare is to the Knicks right now.
the walks are particularly bad because torono is for the most part an aggressive team.
they aren’t going to walk unless you make them walk!
It’s bad because Patterson sucks imo.
Nice frame job
I agree with Betsey that Knicks were good today.
With both Billups and A’mare out, they played great.
They had no buisness hanging out until the last play.
Lucky strike call
the walks are particularly bad because torono is for the most part an aggressive team.
–
Truth, dudes have no plate discipline. They let Dice-K rack up 89 pitches in 8 innings or something last series. You have to go at them.
jerkface probably has it right about Gardner.
cant forget he had surgery on his wrist and made the changes.
though, surgery or no surgery, at some point he needs to lose AB’s until he’s ‘back to normal’ with his swing.
so much for not being able to argue balls and strikes
Soriano has really lacked the efficiency he brought in Tampa. I hope that changes as the weather heats up.
The weakest partmof Gardner’s game is bunting.
He can’t “help the team” by having perform what he’s weakest at.
It’s a dumb play in a game that wasn’t going to end 3-2 on a team that doesn’t bunt well.
If you think it’s a smart play? I rest my case.
BD, I’m starting to get over it now………. The Knicks have to learn how to close games – and they will. They’ve had terrible luck – and they’ve still battled hard; better that they do that then completely collapse. It’s a fun team to watch and an easy team to like ……….. Even Rivers said the Celtics were lucky to win tonight. 2-0 is still 2-0, but with their goal the title, and not just getting out of the first round, they have to feel like they’ve been beaten up some.
Martin’s throws aren’t looking as good as they did the first two weeks
Betsy,
No way the Celtics sniff the finals this year. Chicago or Miami would easily take them out
JoSoMo 2/3 complete.
atta boy So
Soriano looked a bit better there. Good to see him pumpin it up a bit.
I love Cone. So glad he’s back.
Betsy,
Rivers is right. Knicks should probably be up 2-0.
I didn’t think the Knicks had any chance of winning the title this season (of course they might) so for them, continuing to learn to play together and learn from their mistakes is what they should take away from the playoffs.
Next season, after playing together more, is when they can make their serious run.
just my opinion
Not a good night for Montero, but Phelps was really good. 5-2 Scranton. Banuelos was outstanding in 4 innings, 2 hits, 1 unearned run, 2 walks, 4 strikeouts. Trenton in extra innings, 1-1.
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....a_lhvaaa_1
Great game so far. Very exciting thanks to Joe in the 6th. Time for the fireman to close it out.
I hope 108 stitches has the youtube metallica clip qued up
‘I’m so proud of them’.
==================
Good job supporting your team Betsy.
“Betsy,
No way the Celtics sniff the finals this year. Chicago or Miami would easily take them out”
————–
C’s can beat Miami. The way Jermaine Oneal is playing and if they get Shaq back – they can handle Miami (not saying it wouldn’t be a very tough series but they’d be 50/50)
It’s Chicago who they probably aint beating.
GB7,
how did Montero (or how has he) look behind the plate?
Soriano is starting to pay dividends now.
SJ, Kahnle is the type of pick that makes a good draft look great (if he stays healthy). Not as big, but, very much a Gossage type pitcher.
For the 20% of you who care about the Sox:
tough matchup for them tonight
Boston is gonna have a tough time against lefties and Anderson is a good one.
And anytime Lackey is out there…. you know.
1-0 Oakland in the 1st
Jeter.. just disgusting.
BD,
I’ve been at the Heat playoff games and was at the Boston game last Sunday.
Even with both O’Neals, they aren’t bearing the Heat with the way the Heat are playing right now.
GreenBeret7 April 19th, 2011 at 10:18 pm
Not a good night for Montero, but Phelps was really good. 5-2 Scranton. Banuelos was outstanding in 4 innings, 2 hits, 1 unearned run, 2 walks, 4 strikeouts. Trenton in extra innings, 1-1.
http://web.minorleaguebaseball…..a_lhvaaa_1
——————————-
Still batting .405
Dave, Montero’s looked fine behind the plate. I’m afraid that he’s going to hurt a base runner one of these days when they run into him. They stop like a Volkswagen hitting a brick wall. He gets low (on both knees) and just camps out on the 3rd base line and waits for them.
Oak town off to a good start out West. It worries me that there offense is so bad. Hope they can hang at least one on the Sux.
Come On Mo Do You Here
I hate to see a guy struggling as much as Gardner is right now.
GB,
I saw him in college a few times. I was impressed.
I think he’s too good for the SAL.
I’d like to see the Yankees aggressively promote him this summer and see where he ends up.
You take a major league hitter in a slump, they press, but, ultimately, I think, it’s frustration because they know they belong. (Mind you, I’ve got no personal experience here.)
I wonder if it’s that way with Brett Gardner, or if he secretly wonders if he really does belong, because I really don’t get the impression that baseball comes naturally for him (though he’s accompished a lot, by getting to the bigs against the odds). He’s gotten to MLB by overachieving. And, while that’s terrific, and a great story for the writers, at some point it can catch up with you.
At some point, not saying now, you have to wonder when baseball is going to catch up to Brett Gardner.
SJ44,
we’ll see.
Celtics mailed it in at the end of the regular season and the Knicks are their wakeup call. If they get out of the 1st round, that series is 50/50.
Heat didn’t look so great for much of game 1. Until they play shutdown defense, they can be beaten. It will be a great series if it plays out that way.
they jinxed MO
Trenton wins in 10 innings, 2-1 on Romine’s 3rd hit of the night.
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....x_treaax_1
This game is not friendly when you are struggling.
The ball must look like a pea to Gardner at the plate right now. He’s really scuffling right now.
That may have been the worst pitch Mo has thrown all year.
Is this the night Mo gets his annual one blown save?
I guess Mo can’t pitch in warm weather.
“He gets low (on both knees) and just camps out on the 3rd base line and waits for them.”
—————–
as long as he has time to get low…. the NYY OF don’t always get their throws home as quickly as some other teams
good to hear he’s holding his own behind the plate so far.
Bad location, obviously…Come on Mo!!!
first be breaks his bat on his knee and now head first into first.
someone should sit him down.
Be careful coming inside to roids here…
SJ, I’m guessing that Kahnle will be in Tampa by the end of May.
I know it is early in the season, and the Yanks are ahead in this game, but . . .
it is really really tough to see Jeter and Posada struggle so badly.
Makes me feel old.
It could be worse.
The Yanks don’t have to platoon Darnell McDonald and Mike Cameron against left-handers.
And if they had another RH bat on the bench, he’d be playing for Crawford against lefties too.
Swisher, Granderson, and Gardner/Jones will end up being a very solid OF.
Omg a wild pitch from Mo
I think that was without question the worst pitch Mo has thrown this year….he just doesn’t leave balls there very often…..his command is really off for him tonight. When does Mo throw a wild pitch?
what is going on?
His location is really off
Its all good. Mo didn’t want to pitch to him. Come on now.
BD,
They weren’t mailing it in last Sunday and if the Knicks knew how to execute late game situations, they would be down 2-0.
The Heat’s D has been in lockdown mode lately.
This looks like one of the rare bad Mo nights.
He looks horrible right now.
Not good. Sportscenter showed it was national walkoff day and I had a horrible feeling when they did.
At least he walked Bautista of all people.
the only Jay worth walking – though obviously not intended.
now get this done
that was could’ve of been a strike.. forget it.. just put Bautista on.. ..
oh well .. that was mo’s first run of the year.
Unlike No to make it this interesting.
Don’t like it
# blake April 19th, 2011 at 10:31 pm
I think that was without question the worst pitch Mo has thrown this year….he just doesn’t leave balls there very often…..his command is really off for him tonight. When does Mo throw a wild pitch?
———————————–
does 01 count
Got to watch out for the SB here.
Mo’s stuff kind of looks how it did when he was having those rocky outings last year.
Joe from Long Island April 19th, 2011 at 10:27 pm
You take a major league hitter in a slump, they press, but, ultimately, I think, it’s frustration because they know they belong. (Mind you, I’ve got no personal experience here.)
I wonder if it’s that way with Brett Gardner, or if he secretly wonders if he really does belong…
——————————————————
The thing that gets me ab out Gardner’s slump is that it seems so out of character for him. He seems to be the kind of player that learns and improves at each level that reaches. I think that it’s just a matter of time before he adjusts and adapts. However, is on a much shorter leash than Tex, Jeter, or one of the more established players might get. So, I imagine that Gardner must be aware of the fact that he is only going to get som many chances. Oviously, the Yanks are going to give him at least 100 ABs. Nevertheless, the window is closing on him…
figures mlb.tv just reset my internet .. okay .. it’s back phewww.
“BD,
They weren’t mailing it in last Sunday and if the Knicks knew how to execute late game situations, they would be down 2-0.”
————
no, but you can’t always mail it in for 2 weeks, then decide you’re going to try for one game.
the C’s could definitely be down 0-2, but the knicks were hotter than the heat the last 2 weeks. It’s not like losing to the Knicks is bad – they are better than a 6 seed. Philly isn’t.
there is no doubt the celtics can beat the heat. are they the favorites? no. but it’s pretty close to 50/50 if it does happen.
uhh where the hell was that?
This ump has to be kidding me
wow….ring him up
Mo actually gives up a run every 4.5 innings or so but I still find it shocking when it happens.
Josh Romanski was outstanding for Tampa Yanks, allowing 1 run in 6 innings. Tampa couldn’t score and the bullpen gave up 6 runs.
i don’t get this ump’s strike zone
crap…..
Okay this sucks.
Oops. Mo will blow?
Officially a bad Mo night..
This ine will be over soon.
That’s game. Toronto owns us.
Didn’t Mo blow a game here last year?
You knew that would happen after he gets squeezed. Mo jsut doesn’t have his location today. This isn’t going to end good…
Now it is officially nervous time.
It just isn’t there for Mo. He’ll need a bit of lady luck to get out of this one.
watch for squeeze
Blow the save
Dammit.
I got it out there too late
Awful play by Tex and a good bunt.
That a freakin joke….Say good bye to this game
darn just take the out
Tough to get 12 outs every night from pen
Shiit
Walk off?
Damn
GB7 had it.
just gotta get out of this and take your chances in the 10th.
Noo!
Saw that coming a mile away.
Hopefully, they don’t play small ball in the middle innings tomorrow night.
They were never going to win a 3-2 game in Toronto.
I hate the Blue Jays
Why do they always do those plays against us?
The fear of Bautista ruined the inning…..always a problem.
how bout an easy DP
Jays roll over for Sox…
Mariano has thrown a lot this season.
He doesn’t have the usual life he normally has on the ball tonight.
Could it have went foul?
Hard to tell. It looked good.
RadioKev April 19th, 2011 at 10:37 pm
Awful play by Tex and a good bunt.
————
there was not much he could do
“They were never going to win a 3-2 game in Toronto.”
—————-
you say that as if you knew Mariano was going to blow the lead
wow a lot of good cuts by the jays off the Great One tonight
When Mo’s pitches start to have that dip, not enough velocity, you can tell it’s going to be a rough outing. Saw that last year, and it happened here tonight.
This is one of the downsides to using all your relievers in cookbook fashion heading into the 9th. Now if he gets out of this…Robertson, Joba, and Soriano have all been burned.
If Gardner would of tried that he would of popped it up in the air. But of course this team gets it done.
0-2 on Molina. Wow.
even jose molina got a hit?
NY teams meltdown tonight when closing out the games
Take a picture of this because it only happens a few times a year.
In situations like tonight the strict bullpen management might bite you. You didn’t go more than 1 with robertson. you didn’t go more than 1 with joba. you have neither for extra innings. Soriano could not be used if Mariano is a little off.
“Jays roll over for Sox…”
————–
Sox pitchers didn’t walk the Jays weakest hitters.
but yes, Toronto’s bats have woken up against Mariano.
tough to watch.
I guess if he didn’t pull AJ, he’s not pulling Mo.
Marino has nothing on the ball.
This is going to be sheer guile to get out of it.
The recipe didn’t call for this.
The walk to Bautista was the biggest at bat of the game. Everyone is terrified of this guy, even Rivera. Unreal.
This is crazy man.
It’s amazing the Yankees have such trouble against a team that is so good at getting themselves out. Just a terrible, terrible loss.
they don’t have anybody left to warm up….Mo just doesn’t have the life or location tonight. That pitch he threw to Escobar was as hittable a pitch as you’ll ever see Rivera throw
It’s like slow death !
Molina has become a real pain in the behind with the bat over the last couple of years.
Mo has nothing tonight. He is probably tired, he has pitched a lot recently.
Ouch………..not a good night for Mo
need no less than a strikeout.
Well, we all know there is going to come a time when Mo is going to start to become mortal.
This may be the year.
Jerkface,
but now Robertson might be available tomorrow
ugh
He looks like Papelbon…..
SJ -
They had a 5-3 lead going into the ninth.
And “small ball” in the middle innings is to blame?
got out of it now take the lead and close with whoever
Jerkface April 19th, 2011 at 10:41 pm
In situations like tonight the strict bullpen management might bite you. You didn’t go more than 1 with robertson. you didn’t go more than 1 with joba. you have neither for extra innings. Soriano could not be used if Mariano is a little off.
——
Oh whatever. What better way to lose a than letting Rivera lost it?
Got out of the jam anyways.
Just win it now.
Great play by Chavez….probably is that now who pitches the 10th?
Nice DP.
Great play by Chavez…
wow, nice play
Pepitone,
just leave.
Logan time?
Rivera found some movement on that pitch
Soriano being here was supposed to help lighten Rivera’s load. Relievers aren’t like position players, having some convenient rainouts doesn’t ‘reset’ them.
Wasn’t part of the point of signing Soriano to all that money so that they could give the 40 year Rivera a break every once in a while.
But instead we’ve gotten the recipe.
And even without his stuff Mo is simply unbelievable. He really had nothing out there tonight.
It happens, though
And he gets out of it.
Crazy man just crazy!
wow when it goes it goes fast when MO doesnt have it.
Lets still win this thing now
# Captain Clutch April 19th, 2011 at 10:41 pm
Mo has nothing tonight. He is probably tired, he has pitched a lot recently.
——————————————-
too much josomo
Small ball is to blame. With this offense it could have been 8-3. This ain’t the NL. With this offense u don’t play for 1.
Who opens the 10th-Noesi, Logan, Pendleton, Nova???
you don’t ever plan for Mo to blow saves….but perhaps Girardi will remember this game in the future and consider saving one of Soriano, Joba, Robertson just in case things don’t go exactly to plan.
“The recipe didn’t call for this.”
—————
Joe probably doesn’t have a recipe for extra innings :O
Need runs, multiple ones to win this game.
I’d probably go with anybody but Logan.
Calling a Swisher BOMB this inning
Only using Robertson for 2 outs will hurt the Yanks in the 10th. He should of pitched the 7th inning also. I hate how the Jays never have a pulse against Boston but always show up against the Yanks.
Oh whatever. What better way to lose a than letting Rivera lost it?
Got out of the jam anyways.
–
Girardi could be smarter in his bullpen management by staying longer with guys who are obviously dealing (robertson, joba) and not staying so long with guys who aren’t (soriano). Rivera is pretty much going to either lose or get out of his own mess because of how great he is, but in the event that Rivera blows a save and its not a walk off, you need to have pitchers behind him.
Smarter bullpen management could be just as effective as what Girardi is doing now while not leaving the team vulnerable.
This is exactly what I said earlier. Girardi uses 4 relief pitchers in 4 innings and gets stuck in extra innings.
Who pitches the tenth now?
I wonder who Girardi’s 10th inning guy is? I hope he makes an official announcement about it after the game so we all can close our brains and let the computer manage the game.
.but perhaps Girardi will remember this game in the future and consider saving one of Soriano, Joba, Robertson just in case things don’t go exactly to plan.
–
Or strategically positioning Soriano-is-the-closer outings to give Mariano more than 1 day off.
“I’d probably go with anybody but Logan.”
————
so Noesi or Pendleton….
lovely
Rauch throws strikes. They’ll be right over the plate.
“Well, we all know there is going to come a time when Mo is going to start to become mortal.
This may be the year.”
Pepitone,
No way. He’s been outstanding this year. His ball has had so much life and movement.
It’s just tonight that his stuff has been flat.
This the Yankees 15th game. Mo has made 10 appearances. He’s appeared in 75% of the yankees games.
And he’s 41.
His stuff is just flat. Despite what the recipe says they can’t just keep using him at this rate.
MO has pitched too much. He’s basically pitched in all of our wins. Have to win a few blowouts here and there and get Jo-So-Mo some rest… can’t keep using them every time
Does anyone know Sterling’s home run call for Andruw Jones?
Interesting….Nova.
they’re taking my idea of using Hughes to pitch 1 game out of the bullpen this week on Nova?
who gets the 10th?
Pendleton?
Robertson: 6th inning guy
Joba : 7th inning guy
Soriano: 8th inning guy
Rivera : 9th inning guy
ghost man : 10th inning guy.
No way. He’s been outstanding this year. His ball has had so much life and movement.
–
Every season for the past 6 years Mariano blows a save and someone says he is going to lose it. I’ll believe it when guys are knocking him out of the park every outing like Hoffman.
You know every writer is scrambling to re-write their stories.
That inning was a glimpse of what things could look like in 2013.
Prior placed on the 7 day DL? didnt know there was a 7 day DL
looked like Nova was warming up.
a guy who was walking everyone in his last start.
please Nova – find the plate and keep the ball down
Oh great Nova. That should be fun…. The Yanks have 3 useless spots be used in the bullpen.
Yankees always get homer happy in these situations. Hope they can jerk one.
Damn 2 runs Mo WHY!!
I am with CB and others.
Would it kill Girardi to use Joba for more than one inning? When he is clearly on?
Mo has gotten a ton of work already.
Sorry meant to say he’s appeared in 2/3 of their games not 75% – multitasking.
If it isn’t broken don’t fix it. Until Rivera proves that there’s reason to weigh other options before going to him for a save situation in the 9th, I don’t see a reason to change the formula.
Maybe it’s because I like to cook, but a good recipe can yield some good results.
So Mo has one bad game and now he’s been toppled from Mt. Olympus? This happens every year- they need to make a movie with that title. Oh wait, there already was a movie with that title, lol
”
Would it kill Girardi to use Joba for more than one inning? When he is clearly on?”
—————
he should have left Robertson in. He was clearly pitching well tonight, but he’s not the 7th inning guy.
c’mon lets get some runs here and call it a night…we pretty much used up all our better pitchers….so after this inning I say the Jays have a better chance of winning
Toronto is one of the teams that have seen Nova. Not good. Got to get a lead here or it’s light out, more than likely.
joba has appeared in 10 of 15 games now you want him to work more innings.
anybody ever heard of pedro feliciano?
“If it isn’t broken don’t fix it. ”
————-
so why not pitch CC every game until he breaks?
Seriously? Are u guys seriously questioning the pen use tonight? Mariano blew the save. If u feel u need to point blame, point it at the greatest closer of all time, because that’s who it falls on.
didnt rauch have a huge neck tat? looks like he had it removed
joba has appeared in 10 of 15 games now you want him to work more innings.
–
Well YsGuy, the by product of using the bullpen smarter is that the relievers pitch in less games overall but have a greater impact on the games they do pitch
The pitcher who really is being inappropriately under utilized in game situations is robertson.
There was absolutely no reason why he couldn’t be used to also pitch the 7nth tonight. None.
This is like managing by straight jacket.
BD (Boston Dave) April 19th, 2011 at 10:51 pm
“If it isn’t broken don’t fix it. ”
————-
so why not pitch CC every game until he breaks?
——
…Can I get banned for saying that’s a jackass comment?
Guys, this night went according to formula. This why we need that extra inning out of the starters. Can’t really blame Giardi for Mo being off tonight. It happens.
This umpire might as well flip a quarter
inconsistent ump
Cano has to start swinging at more strikes
So, which inning should Boone Logan have worked?
Seriously? Are u guys seriously questioning the pen use tonight? Mariano blew the save. If u feel u need to point blame, point it at the greatest closer of all time, because that’s who it falls on.
–
I will never blame Mo for blowing a save. The bullpen discussion is just a culmination of the silliness that has gone on all season.
Hey CB, good to hear from you.
No doubt. Mo has proven over and over again he can defy the odds, but that doesn’t undermine my point.
The man is 41 years old. There will be a deterioration of skills no matter who you are.
My point – We all know it’s coming for the greatest relief pitcher of all time, and this may be the year … but, then again it may not. Nevertheless, at his age, it will come sooner rather than later.
“Guys, this night went according to formula. ”
Mariano is on pace to make 108 appearances.
The formula is not sustainable.
Betsy April 19th, 2011 at 10:50 pm
So Mo has one bad game and now he’s been toppled from Mt. Olympus? This happens every year- they need to make a movie with that title. Oh wait, there already was a movie with that title, lol
——————————————
I’m sure that he is fine–getting roughed up once in a while happens to everyone. However, Girardi has been over-using him, and pretty badly, in my view. River is on pace to appear in 108 games, and throw over 97 innings. There is no need for this, when the Yanks have Soriano to share some of the load. Let’s not forget that the man is 40 years old…
Fine, YSGuy. Then how about Robertson for more than one inning?
Why is only one inning of work – max – somehow the magic number?
What is wrong with watching the game and keeping a guy in if he is looking good? The you can rest him and use the guy you didn’t go to the next game.
They’ve been saying that about Mo for years………….and sooner never comes. If he’s slipping, then all the other closers must have already fallen
Yes that was Mo’s league leading 10th appearance.
Can Chavez drive in Tex again?
Come on Chavez!!!
CB April 19th, 2011 at 10:54 pm
“Guys, this night went according to formula. ”
Mariano is on pace to make 108 appearances.
The formula is not sustainable.
——————————–
Heh. You type faster than me!
I can agree with agree giving Mo some extra rest when possible.
But Joe played this right.
All this let Joba, Robertson, etc pitch more is a bunch of baloney.
man I am really liking Martin. And what a job by Robertson!
they handed a 2 run lead to mariano rivera. should be game over. two, maybe three times its not, no big deal. i smell a win anyway.
Ghost, but I agree with that…………..I’ve never loved Joe as a manager; he just does some extremely peculiar things. Robertson and Joba both can pitch multiple innings, but he constantly burns his pen……and then leaves himself empty handed later.
“joba has appeared in 10 of 15 games now you want him to work more innings. ”
Rivera isn’t the only one being overworked, so are Joba and Soriano.
They will probably only utilize Robertson on days that one of those guys is 100% unavailable. Feliciano/Logan were also supposed to get some lefties out so the righties didn’t have to pitch complete innings.
Soria has had a ton of issues this year to for the Royals.
Jerkface – there is no meaningfull bullpen discussion right now if mariano closes out the game. Since he doesn’t, there’s a discussion about how girardi muffed it up. That’s not accurate.
Tar April 19th, 2011 at 10:55 pm
All this let Joba, Robertson, etc pitch more is a bunch of baloney.
———————
Why?
If Robertson pitched the 7th, you would not need to pitch Joba.
yankees arent empty handed. they have Noesi and Pendleton out there, Logan too…
there arent always 7 perfect options.
Was half expecting to read here and have people screaming that Girardi needed to get Mo out of there because he had nothing.
Nova? Interesting
Yahoo Sports:
“Aroldis Champman uncorked what was measured as a 106-mph pitch, but it was the highest of three readings.”
CB-
I agree, but the starters could make it a little easier on binder Joe by giving him more length. Only CC has gone more than 6.
Tar,
Yup.
And if Robertson blows it, people are killing Joe for not going to Soriano or Joba, especially after an off-day, and trying to get cute.
When the reliever screws up, the manager never can win. The guy can’t play for extra innings when he hands his untouchable closer a 2 run lead. MO saves it, we are not even having this conversation.
4time April 19th, 2011 at 10:56 pm
“joba has appeared in 10 of 15 games now you want him to work more innings. ”
Rivera isn’t the only one being overworked, so are Joba and Soriano.
————
This is starting to remind me of the year when Torre burned out Quantrill and Gordon by beating the formula into the ground day after day after day.
Jerkface – there is no meaningfull bullpen discussion right now if mariano closes out the game. Since he doesn’t, there’s a discussion about how girardi muffed it up. That’s not accurate.
–
There has been very significant discussion as to Girardi’s bullpen usage up to now. Sorry you weren’t paying attention.
I wonder why they didn’t just do this with Hughes? Pitch 1 or 2 games out of the bullpen this week and start next week.
well….Mo has picked everyone else up countless times….time to pick him up and win this one.
So I guess Freddie’s pitching Friday, CC Sat and AJ on normal rest Sunday.
“Rivera isn’t the only one being overworked, so are Joba and Soriano.”
Absolutely. But this is part of the problem with bull pen by hyperspecialization of roles.
Each pitcher winds up making more appearances because they only throw in very narrow roles.
If you let the relievers throw more than 1 inning or utilize Robertson more you could decrease the number of appearances the relievers are making.
The recipe right now calls for at least 3-4 relievers to be utilized every game with a lead.
That is simply not sustainable.
The starters aren’t giving enough length – that’s a real issue. But it’s not necessary to segment the innings this much.
Nova is ready folks
!st team that walks the leadoff batterr ;oses this game!
”
…Can I get banned for saying that’s a jackass comment?”
—————–
saying that Mariano can pitch in 2/3 of the Yanks games is the jackass comment
“If Robertson pitched the 7th, you would not need to pitch Joba.”
And what if Robertson gave up a leadoff hit or walk, then what get Joba up quick.
“loses”
Igotid, putting Phil in the pen was not going to help him…………..
There were other opportunities to give the team a bigger lead. Gardner’s bad bunt cost them a run, so did his pop out with the bases loaded.
Yankees can’t seem to get anybody out.
This will be over quickly. Nova can’t handle this type of situation….
Why nova? Didn’t Pendleton earn a shot?
I wonder why they didn’t just do this with Hughes? Pitch 1 or 2 games out of the bullpen this week and start next week.
___
Because there is obviously something wrong with Hughes. Nova is just being skipped.
Big difference between paying attention and spending countless hours posting eroneous comments about decisions few have more than topical insight into.
One day, you’ll figure it out.
Had to score that inning. Just amazing again how much this team, with its wild approach at the plate gives the Yankees.
No starting pitching=burning bullpen. It’s April. Mo shouldn’t be pitching 5x in 8 days
With the scientific method, there’s no reason to believe that logic suggests that Rivera is burned out due to overuse or age. This could simply just be an off night, an aberration. Wait and see. If he shows further inconsistency, then you start thinking about/making changes to the way you handle your bullpen workload.
This is just one night in a long season.
if nova can get out of this inning you gotta have pitch 2
yeah the starters have to go longer. Using Joba and Mo so much is a result of their inability to go late into games, even cc.
What is baloney is the sacred creed of using relievers for only one inning in close games.
Joba and Robertson each made 11 pitches.
If Robertson is dealing like he was tonight, why not let him go another inning. You save Joba, and your other pitchers, and with the way Robertson was throwing, it is likely he only makes 30-35 pitches, which is the equivalent of a busy single inning.
Please keep in mind that A-Rod isn’t here…..leaves a hole in the lineup any time.
Please don’t put Logan in
I’m not really feeling putting Nova in here.
It’s like ” You’re sort of being demoted. Now think about that while you try and win us this game!”
Betsy April 19th, 2011 at 11:00 pm
Igotid, putting Phil in the pen was not going to help him…
———————————
I’d just rather have him keep pitching
What is baloney is the sacred creed of using relievers for only one inning in close games.
Joba and Robertson each made 11 pitches.
If Robertson is dealing like he was tonight, why not let him go another inning. You save Joba, and your other pitchers, and with the way Robertson was throwing, it is likely he only makes 30-35 pitches, which is the equivalent of a busy single inning.
–
Yea exactly. If a reliever throws 11 pitches, let them go deeper. It will do less damage to them than warming them up for another game (10-15 pitches) and then letting them pitch that (10-30 pitches) without rest.
It’s been very clear that this yankee team was built with the pen as a strength, a strength that was designed to make up for weaknesses in the rotation.
That has been very clear for a long time.
Given that you simply cannot keep using only three guys after the 6th. You can’t. Those 3 guys will collapse.
Depth was a big strength of the pen. That depth is just not getting fully utilized.
This formula is absolutely not sustainable. That’s a fact.
You cannot have Mariano making 90+ appearances. It’s obvious.
They are going to have to develop other tactics to win.
Ace – I agree with you. Comically, I saw a post earlier complaining that Girardi tries to milk his starters too much.
The level of denial around here as it pertains to how limited this starting staff is is somewhat baffling.
aren’t those flashing light distracting?
One of the keys to relief pitchers is that the more of them you use in a game….the more likely it is that one of them will have a bad night.
The starting pitching needs to start giving them some length. Remember that game where Burnett had a 7 run lead? And we ended up having to use Joba, Sori, and MO in that game. We have a 5 run lead against the Tigers and ended up having to bring in Rivera.
As long as we keep going to our pen before the 6th inning is over and playing these close games, the pen will be burnt out.
And using Robertson today instead of Joba doesn’t solve anything considering Soriano/MO would still be used.
# Tar April 19th, 2011 at 10:59 pm
And what if Robertson gave up a leadoff hit or walk, then what get Joba up quick.
——————-
Yes. Exactly. What is wrong with that? The “formula” method had them both pitching anyway, at leats if you leave Robertson in you have the chance you do not need to go to Joba. They way he was throwing, that was likely.
I don’t think even a great pen can sustain a terrible rotation………it just can’t.
Loud outs.
two really long outs….
Nova living dangerously but getting away with it.
“If Robertson is dealing like he was tonight, why not let him go another inning.”
—————
Every time you bring in a new reliever, you are taking a risk that they just might not have it that night.
If you know a pitcher does “have it” and like you said he’s at 11 pitches, why not let him go a couple more batters?
Sometimes Girardi’s plan works. The problem is that he simply doesn’t care what’s going on around him.
He has a plan that he applies to every game and as the game changes, his plan doesn’t.
Don’t have this guy be the hero here
Nova looks good. Very crisp. Has everyone fooled.
“One of the keys to relief pitchers is that the more of them you use in a game….the more likely it is that one of them will have a bad night.”
And ironically, our best one had the bad night tonight lol
Questioning Girardi as a manger is hardly a new or earth shattering concept. There is no doubt in my mind we win the division last year but for Girardi giving games away with ridiculous lineups and questionable moves. He’s not the worst manager on earth but he is baffling sometimes.
“Nova looks good. Very crisp. Has everyone fooled.”
lol
wow…..
Just a flat out horrible loss. Y is Logan on this team?
Terrible……
Nova may give his spot up to Noesi pretty soon.
We never get the ground rule double when we need it.
Impressive work, Ivan. Very solid.
And there you have it. Girardi gets stuck with no relief pitcher and we lose.
Well at least we didn’t burn out any more pitchers.
Tough loss.
You could see that coming from a mile away.
The recipe cracked tonight.
It’s not sustainable, especially when the closer is 41.
Massive choke by the Yankees.
we were pretty much done when Mo blew the save…
And that’s the game
ugly
shocker – Nova gives up 2 hard hit balls deep in the OF and then another one
frustrating games. they happen….. but it seems like Girardi is helping them to happen more often than they should be.
The starting pitching will catch up with this team. Burnett can’t go deep in the game. Nova has been demoted. Who thought Colon and Garcia would both be in the rotation by mid-April?
Well there you go..Nova’s mechanics are awful. Rothchild could see that coming. For a “groundball” pitcher everything he throws is always up in the zone.
WHAT WAS LOGAN WARMING UP FOR?
The Robertson argument would make more sense if we didn’t have an off-day yesterday and another one upcoming on Thursday. Not to mention, he would have taken Joba’s inning, not Rivera’s or Soriano’s.
Terrible loss. Leaves Nova in to face the lefty. Unless the starting pitching starts pitching into the 7th inning our bullpen will be shot by the ASG.
Nova was a bizarre choice out of the bullpen, to say the least. Off night for Rivera. Food for thought.
What’s the answer? Pitch Robertson more? He sees a decent amount of appearances, mostly in jams. Pitch Pendleton and Noesi more? The clear answer is the Yankees need the rotation to step up. We’ll see what happens after tonight.
Hate(couldn’t find a better word) when Mo blows a game. You already have it in the win column when you get pass So.
Choke job
Well, that’s what happens when you can’t get that first guy out.
Better luck tomorrow.
While it’s on Mo for blowing the game tonight, my mantra for this season and all the season’s past is “we win, in spite of Girardi”.
Until the man learns how to develop a human feel for the game of baseball, we’ll lose every game that comes down to his decisions.
If Logan can’t face leftys he shouldn’t be here
Looking like Nova really isn’t ready for the big show.
Bring up the next AAA guy.
“The Robertson argument would make more sense if we didn’t have an off-day yesterday and another one upcoming on Thursday.”
————-
it has more to do with the fact that Robertson was pitching well.
you could see he was pitching well. so why take him out?
BD (Boston Dave) April 19th, 2011 at 11:06 pm
“If Robertson is dealing like he was tonight, why not let him go another inning.”
—————
Every time you bring in a new reliever, you are taking a risk that they just might not have it that night.
————————-
This is the best observation of the night, in my view. It’s something that is lost all too often, on these Tony-LaRussa-type formula-driven managers. Less is more.
Bring in Logan to face the lefty?
Nah, the kid’s giving up rockets. Let him lose it on his own.
BD (Boston Dave) April 19th, 2011 at 11:06 pm
Every time you bring in a new reliever, you are taking a risk that they just might not have it that night.
——————————
Exactly. When you use four relievers in a game, chances are, at least one will be “off.”
The one inning method in a game where your starter only goes 5 or so, is always dicey.
How many times do you see a reliever come in — shut the other team completely down for an inning, then to be pulled for the “7th inning guy” who does not have his stuff and blows it?
GoldGlove9486 April 19th, 2011 at 11:09 pm
The starting pitching will catch up with this team
————————————————-
It might already have how many games have JoSoMo pitched in
Rivera blew it plain and simple.
It happens.
Blaming the loss on Joe is not right.
When you bring in Mo with two run lead you expect to win 99% of the time.
It is a tough loss and it won’t be last one.
We come back tomorrow and win the game…..
“Terrible loss. Leaves Nova in to face the lefty.”
===========
didn’t matter if it was a righty.
Nova was giving up hard hit balls – he was just lucky he got the 2 outs to make it interesting.
The starting pitching is going to ruin this team. Can’t expect the pen to get 12 outs every night.
Tough loss breaking news it’s going to happen a bunch more time this year.
hman
Robertson has a role. He pitched it to perfection tonight.
Now you are asking him to sit on the bench warm-up again and come back out for a second inning, for what? to save Joba in case Mo blows the save.
You do not save pitchers when you have a win at hand.
I cannot believe Colon and Garcia are both in the rotation….and we’ve played 15 games.
hman23 April 19th, 2011 at 11:11 pm
BD (Boston Dave) April 19th, 2011 at 11:06 pm
Every time you bring in a new reliever, you are taking a risk that they just might not have it that night.
——————————
Exactly. When you use four relievers in a game, chances are, at least one will be “off.”
———————————————-
Not to mention all of the times that guys have to warm up.
Blaming the loss on Joe is not right.
–
Relievers are going to give up runs during the season, but using your relievers stupidly is definitely on the manager.
How Nova was the choice tonight is ludicrous. He was pumping meatballs over the plate the whole inning. He didn’t want to be out there.
We had 2 righties and lefty in the pen and he puts one of the starters who has been struggling in the game?
Girardi’s a moron.
At the very least the WARMED UP Logan should have pitched to Snider.
He needs to learn how to use Mo to close the game some nights and Soriano other nights.
Until he can learn to deviate from “the plan” he will do this to this team all season long.
Hmm, the easiest loss of the night to take, lol…………..frustrating
Girardi also gave Toronto a gift run in the 6th inning and almost more runs. AJ should of been on a very tight leash in the 6th inning and of course Girardi and Rothchild were the only 2 people who didn’t think he would implode in that inning. Joba, Soriano and Mo’s arms will be joining Sturtze and Proctor soon if the starters don’t start pitching longer in games.
Nova fooled a lot of guys that inning…
i was yelling at the tv when girardi continued to stay with burnett.. RObertson is houdinin, they only use him when things are dire, bad way to use him.
hey the yankees scored 1 run today without a homerun, have a parade……….
bad loss. 2 blown games by the pen this year up 4 to 0 against the twins and tonight. I will not complain about Mariano because he is allowed to blow saves because he is the GOAT.
cano really hustled down to 1st in the 10 on the mcdonald bobble. he runs half speed at least half the time….
Tar -
What do you call sitting Robertson after 11 pitches other than saving him for future games?
Clueless Joe better get another top line SP in. We have figured out AJ is good for 15 outs. Nova good for 12. Hughes. Zero.
I cannot believe Colon and Garcia are both in the rotation….and we’ve played 15 games.
————————————————————————————————–
Wait till you see Millwood.
I kid. They’re not there yet.
I do agree that if Joe had managed other games more wisely, the pen would be fresher and then using each guy for an inning tonight would be more effective. They cannot continue to all appear in every game. But I do think tonight, in a vacuum, was a less questionable situation. Ultimately, though, something needs to be done to take the pressure off this pen.
But how many prospects are we all wiling to see traded?
I really do think this is more an entire forum not being able to handle Mo not having an off night tonight. I will agree that the structured bull pen system versus critical late inning system has some merit, but at the same time, this formula has worked for the Yankees for about 15 years. You can’t really criticize Joe on tonight for not radically changing things.
The Nova decision, that’s one thing. Pitching Mo in the 9th, or Joba and Soriano for scoreless 7ths and 8ths? Not reasonable in my opinion.
Maybe write a letter and explain the new book on handling relievers to Joe. I’m not sure anyone else in the league is doing it right now, but hey, maybe it’s the start of a revolution.
BBFan April 19th, 2011 at 11:12 pm
Rivera blew it plain and simple.
It happens.
Blaming the loss on Joe is not right.
When you bring in Mo with two run lead you expect to win 99% of the time.
It is a tough loss and it won’t be last one.
We come back tomorrow and win the game…..
————————————-
Yo’re correct, of course. There is no doubt that this loss falls squarely on Mo. Nevertheless, there is a clear pattern to Girardi’s use of the ‘pen, and it ais a dsturbing trend. If Girardi keeps using his big-3 relievers in this fashion, they will be out of gas by September.
If this were the only time Girardi has managed the bullpen questionably, you can easily look past it.
of course you expect to win with a 2 run lead in the 9th.
It’s not this game by itself that is troubling.
It’s the fact that Girardi has made very questionable moves with the starting pitcher and with the bullpen that have almost certainly cost the Yankees multiple games.
it’s not hindsight when people are clamoring for it every game.
“Relievers are going to give up runs during the season, but using your relievers stupidly is definitely on the manager.”
Just becuse you think it is stupid, it does not make it stupid.
Joe played it right giving a two run lead to Mo.
Mo just had an off night.
Tough loss breaking news it’s going to happen a bunch more time this year.
hman
Robertson has a role. He pitched it to perfection tonight.
Now you are asking him to sit on the bench warm-up again and come back out for a second inning, for what? to save Joba in case Mo blows the save.
You do not save pitchers when you have a win at hand.
–
You can’t manage a bullpen the way Girardi has and expect it to be viable the entire year. The only way Girardi is going to get out of this pattern is if the starters reel off multiple 7-9 inning starts. Thats impossible. He is basically killing Robertson every game by getting him up in the 6th regardless. Then either not pitching him or puting him in for too few hitters. Then you’d warm up Joba in the 7th… then soriano in the 8th…
The offense is going to have to get a bunch of comfortable leads but even still at the first hint of trouble Girardi warms up Mo or Soriano.
Its just not good bullpen strategy, which is supposed to be Joe’s forte.
Just becuse you think it is stupid, it does not make it stupid.
Joe played it right giving a two run lead to Mo.
–
There were more optimal ways to give it to Mo. You could pinch run for everyone with Gardner and Nunez in the 1st inning and get 2 runs and win 2-0 and it wouldn’t be smart.
The Yankees have not buried the Sox like they’ve had a chance to…………..
Bottom line is Mo blew it. He’s human. I doubt it was because of overwork. It’s early in the season and he had yesterday off. You don’t want him making 90 appearances, but this team will have more blowouts as the season goes on. Joe could have bought Logan in, but he had no idea how long this game would continue.
btw el capitain has a 257 slugging percentage.
lucky the inmates were upset at Cashman for holding strong on the jeter contract and insulted #2 with a 3 year $17 mill insult.
news flash 100 AB’s from now and this is going on and we have a real problem with the groundout machine……………..
Jeter looks horrible at the bat for about 350 AB’s between the lst 2 months last year and this year….he might be toast. imagine watching him play like this for almost 3 full years!!!
yech
Ace,
I agree the problem is the rotation. The bullpen cannot sustain this workload, particularly when all the off days end. Can’t anyone go 7-8 innings?
And when you have a “win in hand,” why take out a guy who is clearly throwing well? When he has only thrown 11 pitches?
If playing to the game at hand is the most important thing, I think the wise choice is to actually look at the game and realize when a guys has his good stuff and stick with it — instead of managing to the inning and who is your designated arm for said inning.
The Yanks really need inning’s from the rotation and besides CC The Yanks can’t expect to get it from anyone else. Colon isn’t built up, Nova falls apart after 4 innings, AJ is a nut job, Garcia who knows what to expect. Noesi and Pendleton will have to be used as long men if not since you can’t blow everyone else out.
“If Girardi keeps using his big-3 relievers in this fashion, they will be out of gas by September.”
How come?
Unlike many other managers, Joe makes it a point not to use a reliever more than two days in a row and he followed it so far this season.
BD (Boston Dave) April 19th, 2011 at 11:16 pm
If this were the only time Girardi has managed the bullpen questionably, you can easily look past it.
of course you expect to win with a 2 run lead in the 9th.
It’s not this game by itself that is troubling.
It’s the fact that Girardi has made very questionable moves with the starting pitcher and with the bullpen that have almost certainly cost the Yankees multiple games
—————————————–
I don’t have a beef with Joe trying to get an extra inning out of his starter. With the way AJ was throwing tonight, I was willing to get beat with him on the hill. It’s how Girardi manages the bullpen AFTER he pulls the starter that drives me nuts. It’s too much, too complicated, too many steps…
I forget who said it, but what Joe is doing is basically CYA for the bullpen. If he simply hands the ball off to ‘his guys’ by inning, he has built in excuses for anything that goes wrong.
the fact that the Yankees are still 9-6, despite several games they almost surely would have won with better management, is nothing short of amazing.
it’s easy to say it, of course, but couldn’t this team be 11-4 or even 12-3 if Girardi had used a more adaptive style and been less stubborn?
9-6 – you obviously take that – but i don’t feel bad about wishing it was better.
How come?
Unlike many other managers, Joe makes it a point not to use a reliever more than two days in a row and he followed it so far this season.
–
Because other months don’t have 10 off days and giving pitchers 1 day off doesn’t just magically cure them. You can pitch a guy 4 out of 5 days and have it be 1 day off and its not a great job by the manager.
Mo is 41.
He’s appeared in 10 of the first 15 yankee games.
Yes. It’s clearly “on him.”
Absolutely. Everyone knows that the 41 year old closer should be able to pitch at a rate which would have him make 108 appearances over the course of a season.
No problem.
How dare he go out to the mound with flat stuff.
Unacceptable.
After all his career high in appearances was after all 74 games. And that was only 7 years ago. Why should he not be able to throw at a rate of 108 appearances now? Especially when the team has a second closer on the roster.
So of course it’s his fault. That’s just obvious.
BD, I don’t know………this rotation is so bad. Even with a better record, it’s not sustainable. Cashman is going to have to trade some of his chips……
Better face facts. One of either Montero, Banuelos or Betances, possibly two are going to be leaving pinstripes by July.
It just seems funny to me.
Now LAST year, would anyone have complained if the Yankees had a steady set up man in the beginning of the season? I’d wager to guess no.
SO if the Yankees pitched their set up man and their closer in save situations or less, last year, I assume, most people would have been on board.
The only difference this year is that we DO have a set up man. So that means we’ve got a hypothetical 7th inning man.
So, follow the logic, the only thing different to how most people would have preferred it to last year is there is one more dedicated arm in the bullpen.
If there is only one more dedicated arm in the bullpen, that means only one more guy is being worked more than usual.
That guy is Joba Chamberlain.
Joba Chamberlain did his job tonight.
So if Girardi’s formula is the problem, and Joba did his job, what is the problem? What is the problem to how you would have preferred it last year? A year of age for Rivera?
I’d suggest the problem is poor starting pitching. A problem that sits on the starting pitchers shoulders. Girardi should shift around the weight more as the season wears on, but suggesting the problem has to do with a bull pen balance seems silly to me. I’m just following the logic here.
“What do you call sitting Robertson after 11 pitches other than saving him for future games?”
I call him a man who did his job.
Look, I agree part of the benefit of having Soriano should be to let Mo sit some times.
If Joe stayed with Robertson, then pitched Joba then Soriano to close it out I would understand and agree with that even if it didn’t work out.
But he didn’t, Joe went for the win and Mo blew the save. Sh&& happens.
I think you can question his use of Nova in that spot, a lot more than how he used Rob, Job and So.
Cashman is watching the market. He knows what he needs now and what he should give up to get them..
BBFan April 19th, 2011 at 11:20 pm
“If Girardi keeps using his big-3 relievers in this fashion, they will be out of gas by September.”
How come?
Unlike many other managers, Joe makes it a point not to use a reliever more than two days in a row and he followed it so far this season.
———————————————————-
Both Joba and Mo are on pace for 108 appearances. Joba is on pace for 108 IP; Mo is on pace for nearly 100 IP. I suspect Soriano probably would have seen more action if not for his early season struggles. I’ve never seen relievers get used that often, and have it work out well for them.
damn mo blew aj’s chance to win 32!
“Because other months don’t have 10 off days and giving pitchers 1 day off doesn’t just magically cure them. You can pitch a guy 4 out of 5 days and have it be 1 day off and its not a great job by the manager.”
The point is he did not do it so far.
You criticise when he does it.
His record is he does not abuse releivers.
Look, you do not agree with some of his moves, that is fine.
But this criticism is baseless.
I think you can question his use of Nova in that spot, a lot more than how he used Rob, Job and So.
–
he went to Nova because he already used rob, job, and so. What aren’t you getting?
CB,
That’s fair, but do you suggest that Rivera is burned RIGHT NOW because of his appearances in the season? Seems a bit of a stretch. It’s possible. I think this loss IS on Rivera, but that’s not in some mean nasty way, just a realistic way. He’s a great pitcher, but everyone stumbles.
He shouldn’t continue at this rate, but the rate doesn’t necessarily have much to do with tonight’s results.
Straw, if it’s for anything less than a stud, then Cash needs to be put out to pasture (and I wouldn’t trade Montero or Banuelos in any case)
The reason this team appears to be a lot better than they actually are right now is because their flyballs are leaving the park. When that normalizes, we will see a team similar to the one we watched in september and october of last year with worse starting pitching.
A 5-10 record is one thing, but the pitching in boston has a proven track record of being better than what they have shown. Unfortunately, our starters are proving what they were expected to prove by most who shed the rose colored glasses this offseason, they aren’t very good. The pen will be a weakness by mid summer because the starters aren’t good enough to allow it to play out any other way.
In 15 games: 10 appearances each by Mo and Joba; 8 by Soriano and 7 by Robertson.
They’ll be toast by the all-star break.
And Cashman has the nerve to criticize Torre for Proctor and the Mets for Feliciano. He and Girardi should take one long, ugly look in the mirror.
Maybe Cashman needs to do what he did to Joe #1 and talk to Joe #2 about his use of the pen, lol
Soriano and Mo should not be going multiple innings. Soriano has gone over 1 inning in the last 3 years less than Mariano did last year. He is a 1 inning guy. To get length out of the bullpen Joe needs to use Robertson and Joba more when they are being economic.
Anyone complaining about people questioning Joe’s bullpen usage aren’t looking at the big picture.
We’ve had a lot of days off so far- what’s Joe going to do with a burnt pen when we play 33 games in 34 days? Scary
And you also can’t expect the rate of our poor starting pitching to be viable either. They’ve got to step it up or now amount of bull pen work will save this team.
Jerkface April 19th, 2011 at 11:21 pm
How come?
Unlike many other managers, Joe makes it a point not to use a reliever more than two days in a row and he followed it so far this season.
–
Because other months don’t have 10 off days and giving pitchers 1 day off doesn’t just magically cure them. You can pitch a guy 4 out of 5 days and have it be 1 day off and its not a great job by the manager.
——————————————–
Especially for a 41-year-old guy that is going to need some time to rest and heal…
The fundamental problem is the starting pitching. The are providing no length.
But we’ve all know that was going to be a problem since January.
The question then becomes given that deficiency in the rotation how do you optimally use your relievers to make up that rotation.
And the optimal way to do that is not to expect the same three guys to pitch in 67% of the yanekes games.
Given the rotation and it’s problems you need to manage the pen differently and utilize it’s depth.
There is no reason why the yankees can’t use at least 4 pitchers to finish off the games. That would be a start to trying to address the deficiencies in the rotation that currently exist.
Except that “rate” has been for < 3 weeks. Talk about hyperbole…
I guess Joe should have had Roberston throw 25+ pitches (likely), Joba, and have everyone's favorite person Soriano close it. Then everyone would only complain that Robertson, Joba and Soriano are overworked…
People are only complaining because the Yankees lost and trying to find someone to blame. I didn't read one peep about Mariano's workload before today.
They just lost, get over it.
# Tar April 19th, 2011 at 11:23 pm
“What do you call sitting Robertson after 11 pitches other than saving him for future games?”
I call him a man who did his job.
Look, I agree part of the benefit of having Soriano should be to let Mo sit some times.
If Joe stayed with Robertson, then pitched Joba then Soriano to close it out I would understand and agree with that even if it didn’t work out.
But he didn’t, Joe went for the win and Mo blew the save. Sh&& happens.
I think you can question his use of Nova in that spot, a lot more than how he used Rob, Job and So.
_________________
I agree 9 times out of 10, we win this game. It happens to Mo. And he has seen a ton of work. At some point, Joe is going to have to use someone else in a save situation. Why not Soriano? A proven closer. A guy you are paying, what $12M?
I have not even begun to process his use of Nova. LOL.
Yankees have had 2 rainouts.
and 3 days off.
ordinarily, you lose 2 in a row and have a few more blowouts, plus you have more games where you are just not going to use one guy or the other. the off days have prevented that to this point.
my only thing is that when one guy needs a day off, say soriano, joe seems to still want to use joba int he 7th inning.
in that case, i would use drob in the 7th and move joba to the 8th, etc.
but i think in his firsrt 3 years here, forming a bp and then using it effectively has been one of his 2 greatest strenghts (the other being getting the most out of declining guys like matsui and damon) so although i dont agree with everything he does, i have a ton of confidence he will find the best way to use this bp as the year unwinds.
Mo just had an off night.
It happens once a while.
Nobody is criticising him.
Using his failure today to criticise something else, well……
Mo just didn’t get the job done tonight.
It happens.
Yankees make a big trade and get this guy named A-Rod.
Can’t wait.
Betsy-
I would hate to see ManBan moved. Betances I could live with. I have no idea what they are planning to do with Montero, but if he could help net us a Felix or a Johnson, I think you have to pull the trigger.
Didn’t Skynet go live today?
It really is strange how they use Robertson…..he basically only comes into messes and is asked to try and get out of them……and many times he does. Having a fireman like that is important and nice but it’s just strange that that seems to be the only thing he’s used for.
Gotta try to move past this one….Mo rarely does that and they should have won the game…..they’d be 11-4 if the pen doesn’t blow 2 leads late.
I fully expect Cashman to trade Montero at the trade deadline. He will be desperate to upgrade a terrible rotation and he knows that he is his big chip. Cash not being aggressive enough with Haren and Lee not coming will force this to happen. I see it coming..and I doubt it will be for an ace pitcher.
Enough with the “on pace for 108 appearances”. It sounds so silly given the off days we have had and the blatantly obvious fact that run rates 15 games in mean absolutely nothing.
They lost the game because rivera didn’t do his job. It happens. Enough with the Girardi scapegoat job, it sounds juvenile.
“That’s fair, but do you suggest that Rivera is burned RIGHT NOW because of his appearances in the season?”
Tonight he absolutely looked tired. His stuff was very down. He did not look right.
In no way am I saying Mo is “done” etc. As I said before Mo’s been fantastic this season. The depth and sharpness on his cutter has been phenomenal.
But he’s 41. He cannot keep pitching at this rate.
I honestly believed that part of Soriano’s value would come by him closing out games to give Mo a breather.
Robertson in the 7nth, Joba in the 8th and Soriano in the 9th is far better than the vast majority of other teams have to work with.
Also, this “3 guys only being used in the bullpen” is exaggerated as of last week Colon was used heavily too by the amount of innings he pitched. Noesi hasn’t gotten in on the action, and he or Pendleton should soon too. If they don’t that’s either because our starting pitching has picked it up, or Girardi is actually being irresponsible with the pen.
I’m just reluctant to lay blame on Girardi for early pen woes, because you know, by the end of all the seasons he’s been with the Yankees, the pen has been a strength. Believe it or not. It could be a matter of good talent being in the right place, or perhaps a guy that’s good at micromanaging in a spot of the team that needs to be micromanaged.
Btw, I don’t want to hear any complaining if/when Joe uses Logan for full innings, Noesi, or Pendleton and they lose a game.
CB, we knew it in January, but now that the season has started, it’s worse than we might have thought. I definitely agree with you, but even so, the SP has to improve or this team is in trouble.
mariano has thrown 10 innings. he has not been overused. he simply blew the game. so did aj who blew the out at 2nd and then did his implosion and girardi thinks aj is cc and has earned the right to work his way out of trouble.
aj has earned jack.,…….WHo did he walk? garbage. Once Bautista took aj deep aj was spooked for the game……….
Straw, I don’t think Manny will be traded. I think Betances would be the first to go, but let’s face it – Felix is not going to be available and either is Johnson. This happens every freaking year because the Yankees can not develop pitching. Every year, they have to make trades out of desperation……..it’s annoying
Jerk
I get he was going for the win. You do not save pitchers on the off chance that Mo may blow a save opportunity. That is just ridiculous.
And there is a whole lot of extrapolating going on how Joe is going to use his pen all year based on 15 games.
Projecting Mo will be used 108 games is not correct.
With the off days, rainouts, close games and samll sample, it looks like that.
Joe’s track record is that in a season he does not pitch releivers in excessing number of games unlike you know who…..
*** excessive ***
Rivera pitched 32 times last year on 0 or 1 day of rest, this year he has already done it 8 times. We’re 10% done with the season and he has pitched to 25% of his prior seasons rest totals for short rest.
Mo blew this game. He isn’t tired yet since the team has had many off days. It happens.
The problem is the future with this rotation. It is what many feared plus Hughes disappearance. I don’t think their is a solution other than the pitchers have to pitch better. No one is tearing up AAA and their are darn sure no decent starters on the market. They have to play with what they have.
The issue will come to a head when off days are reduced. Nova has looked hittable. His WHIP must be out of sight. Colon and Garcia must come through. Millwood can opt out soon and Silva is still getting in shape. It will be interesting to see if they give Millwood a shot.
Jacksquat,
First of all, those guys are clearly in a different class than Roberston, Soriano, Joba and Mo. But, if they are pitching well, you won’t hear a complaint from me. That was part of my point. Keep a guy in who is shutting them down — without 100% adherence to the inning and who is your slotted guy.
I would love to know why Robertson was put into the dog house. Girardi uses him like he is garbage.
Does anyone else think Noesi may be getting the start in Nova’s place?
I get he was going for the win. You do not save pitchers on the off chance that Mo may blow a save opportunity. That is just ridiculous.
–
Its not about SAVING a pitcher, its about using the guys who look good. Robrtson and Joba both looked sharp. They pitched hardly at all. Let them go deeper. There is no rule that says you have to pitch your entire bullpen every game because you don’t want to ‘save’ any of them.
You don’t save a guy in the pen when another pitcher is struggling out on the mound. What you also don’t do is put a guy in for no reason when the guy currently pitching is doing a good job.
Jerk,
We get it you do not like Joe.
That is your prerogative.
But making unreasonable assumptions is not right to criticise him.
You expect him to save arms assuming that Mo will blow a two run lead?
“Tonight he absolutely looked tired. His stuff was very down. He did not look right.”
He certainly didn’t look right. So yeah, maybe he was over worked, you could be right. Maybe he was just off too, that is a possibility. We’ll find out in time as Girardi hopefully calibrates things.
I gotta head to bed. Have a good night. Hopefully Colon has a solid start tomorrow and Cecil falters.
Wait a second here……what’s with all this “we knew in January” stuff pertaining to the rotation being bad? That’s laughable actually. Some of us knew and voiced it in January, February, and March, myself included.
I can say in no uncertain terms that guys like jerkface, mtu, lgy, and a host of other regulars absolutely did not know this this rotation wasn’t good in January. So, let’s slow down with the revisionist “everyone knew” history.
.and I doubt it will be for an ace pitcher.
—————————————-
well then he needs to step down from the position of GM if that happened. You trade Jesus for Felix or JJ not Brett Myers
Wow I just saw AJ’s flip to Jeter.
Costly mistake huh?
Even CC hasn’t given them his usual length yet. I think they have 1 start total reaching 7 innings.
I love what Bartolo’s been doing since he pitched his first inning in Tampa but I don’t expect him to give them serious length. Who’s pitching tomorrow if he comes out after 6 with a slim lead?
Carlo April 19th, 2011 at 11:31 pm
Enough with the “on pace for 108 appearances”. It sounds so silly given the off days we have had and the blatantly obvious fact that run rates 15 games in mean absolutely nothing.
They lost the game because rivera didn’t do his job. It happens. Enough with the Girardi scapegoat job, it sounds juvenile.
——————————————————————-
The usage rates suggest the beginnings of a pattern–one over which Girardi has complete control and are not the least bit random. If he keeps using the guys in this fashion, he likely will wear out one or more of them. So, these usage rate could wind up being very meaningful. And I, for one, am not scape-goating Girardi on this loss.
Tar -
It’s not just these 15 games. Part of the reason for my frustration — and accepting that is not why I think they lost this game that Mo just happened to blow — is that Girardi has always managed the bullpen like this.
Betsy-
Maybe the McCourts will unload Kershaw?
The 108 games isn’t to be taken literally. Obviously that cannot happen. Mo would get injured far earlier that than.
But the rate of usage does matter – even with the days off. It is a valid index of the intensity of his usage.
And enough with the Joe Torre comparisons.
Being better than Joe Torre at bull pen management says nothing.
With a pitching rotation this short you cannot afford to have hyperspecialization of roles in the pen.
You can’t.
We get it you do not like Joe.
That is your prerogative.
But making unreasonable assumptions is not right to criticise him.
You expect him to save arms assuming that Mo will blow a two run lead?
–
What the hell? I am one of Joe’s staunchest supporters. That doesn’t mean I can’t disagree with his management strategy this season. You don’t understand what I am talking about, its not about saving guys in case Mo blows a lead. ITs about managing the bullpen smarter so that you don’t burn through everyone. That way, if the worst does happen, you’re not pitching your 4th starter in the 10th.
Straw, Nova does not deserve to lose his spot in the rotation
I don’t even know why people are concerned about the pitching. Don’t u guys remember, our staff is better than Bostons because we have tremendous depth in the minors just waiting to burst onto the scene. Why worry when we have that luxury? Warren, noeisi, phelps, the list goes on and on. Just gonna be cruise control once we bring that crew in.
Straw, I doubt it…………
Also, the person this loss is most squarely on isn’t Girardi and it’s certainly not Mo.
It’s AJ Burnett. It’s inexcusable for him to be throwing the ball that well and just lose it in the 6th inning.
He absolutely had to get the team through 7 innings.
He does that and they still have Robertson for the 10th.
Nonetheless this hyperspecialization of the pen is not sustainable.
Nosei and Pendleton should expect to see a lot of action tomorrow. Also Soriano and Mo shouldn’t be used unless it’s an extra innings game and they absolutely have to.
I don’t even know why people are concerned about the pitching.
–
Its April 19th.
Jerkface April 19th, 2011 at 11:37 pm
Its not about SAVING a pitcher, its about using the guys who look good.
———————
Exactly.
“What you also don’t do is put a guy in for no reason when the guy currently pitching is doing a good job.”
What the hell does that have to do with Mo blowing the save?
Ghost – girardis job is to win games with the team he has. His starting staff stinks. When they have a lead late, he goes to his best pitchers to win the baseball game being played that day.
This all boils down to one simple fact, the starting rotation is awful.
# Betsy April 19th, 2011 at 11:34 pm
Straw, I don’t think Manny will be traded. I think Betances would be the first to go, but let’s face it – Felix is not going to be available and either is Johnson. This happens every freaking year because the Yankees can not develop pitching. Every year, they have to make trades out of desperation……..it’s annoying
————————————————-
That’s the bigger issue that has been going on for yrs. No one expects this to be an all homegrown rotation and yes every team needs pitching but every yr it seems like the Yankees are on their hands and knees in desperate need for pitching. This team has resources that other teams can’t dream of.
What the hell does that have to do with Mo blowing the save?
–
What does what have to do with what?
Didn’t read through 900+ comments but I’ll just say this. Rivera’s going to blow a save now and then. It happens. And then pretty soon he goes back to being the best in the business.
Obviously Rivera didn’t do his job, but IMO the real goat is Gardner. If he gets the bunt down, we probably score another run. Instead we trade a runner in scoring position with no outs with a runner on 1st and 1 out. Then getting caught stealing just added insult to injury. Of course he wasn’t done deflating the offense just yet. He would get to strand the bases loaded a couple innings later. Fangraphs shows he was a -18% to the win probability. Pretty awful stuff for the #9 hitter.
I like Gardner and I’m not calling for his head like some fans are. But it’s probably time to start sitting him against some righties in favor of Jones. He should be an automatic sit against all lefties until he can get his **** together.
Nova was atrocious. Really hope he can get back on track. He looked so promising in ST.
This rotation isn’t good? Since when? Two weeks into the season?
CC has had nothing but bad luck when it comes to picking up a W. CC is sitting with a 2.54 ERA.
AJ has a 3-0 record
Ivan is 1-1 and didn’t help his ERA tonight – but he is far from terrible.
Freddy Garcia has a 1.29 ERA.
The only pitcher who isn’t good is Hughes.
Is the sky falling in on some of you?
He hasn’t exactly put a straglehold on it either. I just find it odd to use him there tonight rather than a guy none of these hitters have seen before. It’s not like was going to fall back on his experience in that situation. Makes me think some other ove is oing to happen soon, whether it involves Noesi, or perhaps one of the othef guys at AAA.
Carlo,
I have no idea what you’re referring to. I hardly posted or read the blog this off season/
Personally speaking, I thought the rotation was carrying significant risk and that the pen would have to be managed to provide aggregate innings.
Everybody up to Mo looked good.
Maybe Robertson should have pitched the 7th, 8th and if he still lokked good the 9th too.
Doesn’t matter if its april, september, or february. The staff isn’t good and most of us knew it long before the regular season began.
Odds, it’s a real problem. Now Nova is likely going to be a good pitcher – it’s not HIS fault that he was expected to be a #4. Just like with Hughes last year, Nova has been thrust into an untenable situation due to the failures of the other pitchers. AJ is AJ………Phil’s problems have just killed the Yankees. Garcia is a fine #5 (#4, really, above Nova), but it’s not fair to expect him to shoulder the burden.
Everybody up to Mo looked good.
Maybe Robertson should have pitched the 7th, 8th and if he still lokked good the 9th too.
–
So you just don’t understand baseball or what? Thats a stupid hyperbole of a point no one is making.
I don’t think Joe wants Roberston, Joba, Soriano or Mo going more than one inning, unless one has like a 5 pitch inning. I probably don’t want that either with few exceptions.
With those 4 guys they should not get overworked over the course of a full season. There will be blowouts (both ways). How many times in a full season will the Yankees reach the later innings with small leads and the starter is near his limit? Anyone know how often that happened last year?
With the two off days in a week, they plan to skip Nova one time in the rotation.
That is why he pitched today.
Jerkface,
Please tell us the date one can have concern about the pitching? Teams with no quality and length from their starters rarely win. Who in the rotation do you see stepping up and showing the rest of us how premature our concern is?
hey, guys, i just looked up the standings and we’re still in first.
mellow…
CB – I’m referring to betsy’s comment about everyone knowing the rotation was a problem when in fact the majority of this board claimed it was fine or better than fine.
I wasn’t implying you were a fan as I don’t recall seeing you ever comment on it pre season.
Most fans in general looked at this rotation and said “CC, ?, ?, ?, ?”…..except the ones who post here most frequently
“Doesn’t matter if its april, september, or february. The staff isn’t good and most of us knew it long before the regular season began”
Well let me say that I think that “most of you” then aren’t watching the same games some of us have been. Phil Hughes isn’t good. Period.
Trisha-
CC has been good but unlucky, although not his usual dominant self. AJ has been consitently good and Garcia looked good in one start. Nova has been mediocre, although not horrible. Hughes–no comment until the rehab is done. So while the SP hasn’t been horrible, it is an area with some problems that need to be addtressed. If not, as others have said, it will eventually catch up with them.
“Most fans in general ”
I always like posters who feel they can talk for most fans.
# Betsy April 19th, 2011 at 11:47 pm
Odds, it’s a real problem. Now Nova is likely going to be a good pitcher – it’s not HIS fault that he was expected to be a #4. Just like with Hughes last year, Nova has been thrust into an untenable situation due to the failures of the other pitchers. AJ is AJ………Phil’s problems have just killed the Yankees. Garcia is a fine #5 (#4, really, above Nova), but it’s not fair to expect him to shoulder the burden.
————————————————
That’s the issue that all the kids face. They have to produce or here comes the hand wringing. I remember last yr ppl saying Nova should be in the bullpen because he can’t start. I thought this is his first time in the bigs. WTF
“Robrtson and Joba both looked sharp. They pitched hardly at all. Let them go deeper.’ What
“you also don’t do is put a guy in for no reason when the guy currently pitching is doing a good job.’
You posted that ten minutes ago. Again what does Joba and Robertson not going “deeper have to do with Mo blowing the save?
You posted that ten minutes ago. Again what does Joba and Robertson not going “deeper have to do with Mo blowing the save?
–
???? I’m not talking about Mo blowing the save, I’m talking about Girardis bullpen management.
If you let the guys who are pitching well pitch deeper to their normal limits, then you have a non-Nova reliever in the 10th. And maybe you get better performances out of the entire unit because you’re not working them every day.
Two tough losses so far this year. One to the Twins SO blows up and one Tonight MO blows up.
Bright side one good comeback win this year. Last Thurs. to the O’s.
So somewhere we have to even this equation out. The rest of the Wins and Losses have been pretty basic.
These 3 games stand out to me in my opinion.
If Mo nailed it down, no one would be complaining.
Night all.
Carlo, I do not want to start anything, but one reason I had questions about the rotation was because I did not think Phil was a lock to be good/really good. I obviously did not forsee his problems, but I intended to take a wait and see approach with him – yes, I was skeptical. AJ was a complete question mark. Nova? Talented, but he’s a kid and people were expecting him, esp. based on ST, to pitch like a #2 or #3 this year – totally unfair. Garcia was a good signing, but he’s a backend guy at this point.
I don’t like the road record so far this year. Obviously an extremely small sample size. Get the split tomorrow and everything is fine.
If Mo nailed it down, no one would be complaining.
–
Girardi’s bullpen usage has been up for debate all year.
“So while the SP hasn’t been horrible”
Correct. The SP hasn’t been horrible. In fact, it has been far from it. Last I looked the Yankees were in 1st place in the AL East.
Forgive me but I’m not prone to panic, and I can also see. Colon is starting tomorrow.
If posters are going to kvetch over Nova, that’s on them. Phil is a nonentity at this point.
I have no trepidation with CC, AJ, Colon, Garcia, and Nova. None.
If others do, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least. This is a run for cover forum if I’ve ever seen one.
Odds, I’ve already seen people saying Nova is garbage and he’ll never amount to anything. Really? Based on a few starts? I’m not his biggest fan, but please…… The media isn’t leading the pack this time, though – the fans are.
I’m going to bed. In closing, I just want to say that I think Gardner looks good at the plate, Nova keeps hitters off balance and shows tremendous poise every time he toes the hill, Mariano was sharp tonight, and Burnett is a true workhorse.
“If Mo nailed it down, no one would be complaining.
Night all.”
Bingo. Night Carl.
Jerkface April 19th, 2011 at 11:54 pm
If Mo nailed it down, no one would be complaining.
–
Girardi’s bullpen usage has been up for debate all year.
8th inning 7th inning guys are stupid.
Retardi will understand it one day. Hopefully.
Mo in the 9th I can’t complain about.
“I’m going to bed. In closing, I just want to say that I think Gardner looks good at the plate, Nova keeps hitters off balance and shows tremendous poise every time he toes the hill, Mariano was sharp tonight, and Burnett is a true workhorse”
And you have a backbone of steel.
8th inning 7th inning guys are stupid.
Retardi will understand it one day. Hopefully.
Mo in the 9th I can’t complain about.
–
Yes, Mo blowing a save is inevitable, it is going to happen, you can’t defend against it he is the guy you are going to pitch in the close games in the 9th. Its the other pieces that Girardi can control.
Can’t believe a Knick loss like that and a Mariano blown save in the same night.
That is just too cruel…
Nova struggling at times should surprise no one. He had a handful of starts last year and this is technically his rookie season. Everyone has seen his ability, you have to take the bad with the good.
“I’m not talking about Mo blowing the save, I’m talking about Girardis bullpen management.”
Ok what mismanagement did Joe do tonight that caused the loss?
Never mind- how about we just disagree.
Good night all.
Maybe this will make Girardi think for a second about pitching Mo in 4 run games just because he is eligible for a “save.”
It is ridiculous how many times Mo has entered the game this season with the Yankees basically having a 95%+ chance of winning.
# Betsy April 19th, 2011 at 11:55 pm
Odds, I’ve already seen people saying Nova is garbage and he’ll never amount to anything. Really? Based on a few starts? I’m not his biggest fan, but please…… The media isn’t leading the pack this time, though – the fans are.
—————————————-
Many ppl are down on Nova and you’re right it’s not the media leading the charge. Hopefully he continues to take steps forward even if there are bumps in the road
By the way, when people said the Yankees have our own Crawford with Gardner, they were right. Both are hitting in the .120s.
Trisha-
I would love to have faith in Colon and Garcia, and I do think they will be better than the critics said. But I still think we need one more good young veteran SP to have a shot at winning the WS. Not an ace necessarily, but a good solid #3. I’m not convinced that Hughes isn’t injured and Nova needs to show he can handle pressure situations a little better.
Trisha – good one. Notice I tend not to even bother responding to your commentary about baseball? Doesn’t that tell you anything?
Night all. Never good for the Yankees to lose because the microscopes are out in force.
Sox down 1-0 in the 7th
Ellsbury steals 2nd but is called out on batter’s interference – dope Cameron walked right in front of the plate.
Would have had Ellsbury on 2nd with 1 out instead of nobody on and 2 outs.
“Trisha – good one. Notice I tend not to even bother responding to your commentary about baseball? Doesn’t that tell you anything”
I hadn’t noticed. Doesn’t that tell you anything?
Melo had one of the single greatest individual performances I have ever seen in sports.
When Amare went down and with Billups out the Knicks should have been toast.
That was just amazing that the Knicks were even in that game.
Ok what mismanagement did Joe do tonight that caused the loss?
–
Didn’t stretch Rob or Joba out, thus leaving it up to Ivan Nova in the 10th. Following a too strict bullpen hierarchy.
# LGY April 19th, 2011 at 11:59 pm
Can’t believe a Knick loss like that and a Mariano blown save in the same night.
That is just too cruel…
————————————–
I would throw the Mets in but no one cares about them. NY took a punch on the chin tonight. Mo blowing saves just rips it right out of you. You know it’s going to happen because no one is perfect but it still sucks.
“Melo had one of the single greatest individual performances I have ever seen in sports. ”
————–
I wouldn’t go that far, especially when his team lost, but I guess I don’t know what you’ve seen.
maybe top 200.
It is ridiculous how many times Mo has entered the game this season with the Yankees basically having a 95%+ chance of winning.
–
2 outs, tying run on deck, 4 run lead or something crazy, and Joe goes to Mo. These are games a 41 year old Mo shouldn’t be getting into
sorry, Sox down 1-0 in the 8th when Cameron interfered with the catcher.
huge mental error.
# LGY April 20th, 2011 at 12:03 am
Melo had one of the single greatest individual performances I have ever seen in sports.
When Amare went down and with Billups out the Knicks should have been toast.
That was just amazing that the Knicks were even in that game.
——————————-
and to think some ppl regretted the trade when the knicks were losing SMH
“I would love to have faith in Colon and Garcia, and I do think they will be better than the critics said. But I still think we need one more good young veteran SP to have a shot at winning the WS. Not an ace necessarily, but a good solid #3. I’m not convinced that Hughes isn’t injured and Nova needs to show he can handle pressure situations a little better”
Straw, I think it’s ludicrous for anyone to be spinning out two weeks into the season with the Yankees sitting in first place (you certainly aren’t doing that.) Never surprising when forum posters go into a tailspin behind a Yankee loss. As I said, the miscroscopes are out in force.
If posters on this forum are worried about the Yankee rotation with the team in first place, they are MAJOR hypocrites if they say anything but ominous things about the last-place Sux.
BD,
He was basically playing 1 on 5.
Roger Mason was running the point for a stretch! Roger friggin Mason.
Good night everyone
“It is ridiculous how many times Mo has entered the game this season with the Yankees basically having a 95%+ chance of winning”
————-
Teams with setup men comparable to Dan Wheeler don’t even do that all the time.
Yanks have a few of the best relievers in baseball.
“That was just amazing that the Knicks were even in that game. ”
But for some strange personnel deployment in the closing minutes of each game, the Knicks might be up 2-0. IOW, Jeffries doesn’t have the offensive skills to be on the floor when you need a basket at the end of Game 2, and Fields should have guarded Allen in Game.
“Didn’t stretch Rob or Joba out, thus leaving it up to Ivan Nova in the 10th. Following a too strict bullpen hierarchy.”
In other words save pitchers in case Mo blows the save, Brilliant idea.
LGY, awesome………..If only Amare had been able to play. The Knicks can build around 2 guys who are fearless and absolutely clutch. Too bad Melo’s performance will be forgotten because of the loss.
Can’t say Cashman doesn’t know his baseball.
I mean, who in their right mind would ever consider giving up a talent like Ivan Nova when all you’re getting back is Cliff Lee and a probably World Series championship???
Non-Melo Knicks shot 30% from the field.
“Nova needs to show he can handle pressure situations a little better.”
The is his first full season in the majors. I say we give him the same latitude we were willing to give, say, Hughes last year when we all used the familiar platitudes about mistakes being understandable and all a part of the learning experience.
I don’t like double standards.
And YNM shows up to top off a nightmare night… On to tomorrow
“BD,
He was basically playing 1 on 5. ”
———–
true, except the C’s didn’t bother to double team him until he had dropped 40 on them. No Amare should have meant automatic double on Carmelo. With Amare, the knicks easily win.
It was an amazing effort, no doubt.
I’ve seen quite a few basketball games and sporting events, in the finals, game 7′s, or more critical games to say ‘one of the greatest performances ever’ though
“It is ridiculous how many times Mo has entered the game this season with the Yankees basically having a 95%+ chance of winning”
Has Mo pitched in any non-save sityuation?
Has any teams legititmate closer NOT pitched in a save situation this year?
I glimpse inside Brian Cashman’s mind: Ivan Nova = Cliff Lee deal-breaker … 2+2=17 and a half … goats are sexy … Phil Hughes = Roger Clemens …
well, if you believe the Sox are the team to beat in the AL East, they are 3 outs away from their 11th loss (though Fuentes will have his work cut out for him)
gotta watch out for those Rays again. Impressive turnaround.
funny how that works – that loser manny cheats and retires – they win pretty much every game since.
BD,
Maybe I exaggerated a biiit
It was definitely a classic playoff performance though.
Rich, I can’t get upset at D’Antoni; I think he’s done a great job in preparing his team. The Knicks have been all heart- they didn’t collapse after Boston took the lead on Sunday and tonight they didn’t collapse without Amare. I’m not sure what to expect in game 3, but if the basketball gods have ANY compassion in them, they will not let the Knicks (a) lose and (b) lose a close game
Betsy
That’s fine. I disagree, strongly.
“Has any teams legititmate closer NOT pitched in a save situation this year?”
—————
you can add the age of two of some teams closers and it equals Mo’s age.
Knicks role players were playing more than they ever expected to – they did the best they could.
“It was definitely a classic playoff performance though.”
————-
yup. and team let him down.
if they win, Carmelo is all over the headlines as a hero.
Rich,
I think Jeffries was in there to grab an offensive board if the shot was missed.
In other words save pitchers in case Mo blows the save, Brilliant idea.
–
You’re not understanding a simple concept. Why do something in 5 steps that can be accomplished in 2 or 3?
So say the As take this game. That would have the Sux at 4-11, 4.5 GB and at sometihng like .270.
But they really are a good team, right?
LGY
Maybe but he has terrible hands, and it showed.
FWIW,
Knicks were -5 when Carmelo was on the court, and -13 when Landry Fields was out there.
When Bill Walker was on the court, they were +10, Roger Mason +5, etc.
So the Knicks bench vs. the Celts bench was their key advantage. Obviously having injured players is a problem, but if your bench is better than the other teams… it’s hard to blame them.
The Yankees could pitch their entire bullpen for the last 10 outs of every game and it wouldn’t be smart.
Like why bother having your starters even begin the 6th if we can just go rob-joba-soriano-mariano, right tar?
BD,
I think that just shows how flawed the +/- stat is.
Bill Walker was 0-11 from the field and scored just 2 points.
those crazy A’s.
up 1-0, bottom 8th
they steal 3rd with no outs!
risky business… but it worked.
“well, if you believe the Sox are the team to beat in the AL East, they are 3 outs away from their 11th loss (though Fuentes will have his work cut out for him)”
Bd, this is pretty cool. I would expect some runs here with Okidokey pitching and nobody out.
LGY,
haha, ok…
your point > my point
I’d really like to see “the revenge of Coco”
Fields looks completely lost. He has been just the definition of a non-factor since they made the trade.
The Knicks probably should have tried to keep Gallo and traded Fields instead (if that was an option at all).
Dang
yikes, past my bedtime – got caught up in watching hte Sox lose.
trisha,
we are here complaining about whether we want to let David Robertson, with a 0.00 ERA pitch more, or give it to Joba to get a 1-2-3 inning, or mariano.
The Sox are praying Oki Doki can keep the team in the game so they have a chance to avoid their 11th loss.
it’s laaaate. night all.
Let’s face it, Mo had to have a game like tonight. All jokes aside, I was really starting to believe he was a robot. The rare blip makes me appreciate his utter dominance that much more.
Fields has struggled since the trade, but he played very good D on Allen for most of Game 1. I doubt that the Nuggets would have taken him over Gallo.
Rich, you disagree that D’Antoni has done a good job preparing his team?
Nuggets never liked Fields. Fields is a nice guy, but he’s playing now like a second rounder. I certainly won’t give up on him – rookie wall?- but he has to improve nexdt year
Trisha just as we predicted yesterday the Sux were going to struggle against the A’s pitching.
Looks like their fans can get back up on the ledge again. All Sux fans are going to need knee replacements after the season.
“trisha,
we are here complaining about whether we want to let David Robertson, with a 0.00 ERA pitch more, or give it to Joba to get a 1-2-3 inning, or mariano.
The Sox are praying Oki Doki can keep the team in the game so they have a chance to avoid their 11th loss”
That’s what I’m talking about. I worry about the day that people here have nothing to complain about. I think they’ll just fall apart and blow away.
How did the Knicks let him down? They are role players playing against a veteran team with 2 or 3 HOFers……..
The Knicks chances are pretty dismal but given that they really could have won 2 games in Boston I am not ready to call them dead.
If they get healthy they could easily go home and win 2 to make this a series based on the way they are playing right now.
Betsy
I’m not even sure what that means. I don’t like his personnel deployment in key junctions of games, and I think the lack of consistent focus on defense in the regular season leads to lapses in the playoffs.
“Trisha just as we predicted yesterday the Sux were going to struggle against the A’s pitching.
Looks like their fans can get back up on the ledge again. All Sux fans are going to need knee replacements after the season”
Unknown, and it only gets better. They face the Angels after this! Four games worth. That would be the Jered Weavers and Dan Harens of this world.
Sa-weet!
Amare didn’t sound confident that he was going to make game 3 – he used words like he “hopes to make it”……….One game at a time. I’ve basically gotten what I asked for out of this series, but now I want a win
I subscribe to the view that a playoff series doesn’t start until the home team loses. So I think the Knicks are fine if Amare is healthy.
Rich, it means that his team was ready to play against a better team. They haven’t quit and they’ve played very good D – if Mike is going to get blamed for things that go wrong, then he’d better get the credit for things that go right. I don’t see what the regular season has to do with anything now – the D has been terrific
We’ll be facing those teams, too…….
FYI, I wasn’t directing that comment to you, Rich, just in general to fans critical of D’Antoni
I think I’ll watch the rest of this off forum. Unknown, I truly believe I will have something to laugh about with you in the morning!
See you then.
Night all.
Chad must be too devasted with the loss. He forgot to put up his customary split second quickie wrap after the game.
For an “offensive guru” Dantoni is pretty awful at drawing up plays in crunch time. I have been pleasantly surprised with the legit defensive effort and schemes, so I really have to give MD credit. His team has been prepared.
The problem is though that he is lost at crunch time. Rivers has put on a clinic and just schooled Dantoni in 2 straight games in crunch time.
Hopefully Trisha, I can’t take watching another 9th inning collapse tonight.
G. Love April 19th, 2011 at 10:46 pm
I wonder who Girardi’s 10th inning guy is? I hope he makes an official announcement about it after the game so we all can close our brains and let the computer manage the game.
~~~~~~~~~~~
About sums up Girardi’s in-game management of the bullpen. He’s a robot.
Every time you see Ivan Nova pitch and/or Eduarado Nunez riding the bench (assuming he ever makes it on camera), just remember: Brian Cashman refused to trade EITHER ONE for Cliff Lee.
Past time for a change.
Godzilla Strikes. YES SIR
Minor complaint, but I am still trying to figure out how Big Baby doesn’t get T’d up for lowering his fat a** shoulder and bumping Jeffries in the chest.
Betsy
Again, I don’t know what that means. It’s the coaches doing that they haven’t quit? I disagree. He’s not the right coach for this team, imo, because a defense-first mentality is critical to winning championships in the NBA,, and his personnel deployments late in games, as I mentioned, cost them.
Godzilla!
“We’ll be facing those teams, too…….”
If you are referencing Oakland and the Angels, I’d rather face then with a .600 team than with a .270 team.
See?
4-0 Oakland.
Matsui teeing off on a lefty, what a shocker
Where is the great Jenks and Bard to pitch in the 8th inning of what was a 1 run game?? Instead Francona uses Wheeler, Oki and now Aceves..Where is the “great” part of the bullpen??!!
Matsui off Okajima, awesome
Wow a spider the size of my fist just sauntered across my floor. Don’t worry I saved him him with the help from my wife’s colander.
“Like why bother having your starters even begin the 6th if we can just go rob-joba-soriano-mariano, right tar?”
Jerk
You are smarter than that.
The game was on the line and Joe went with his A-line-up of relievers. Yet you find fault with that because he didn’t “stretch” out Joba or Rob.
Fact is Mo blow the save. It happens, nothing to do with how long Joba or Rob pitched.
The basic premise of giving Mo more rest, I agree with. Same thing for Jeter, Nunez has to get a start soon.
But, talking about bullpen management after a game like tonight (when Joe did nothing wrong) makes you closer to Yankeesnmore than the true jerk that we all know you are.
5-0
Rich, I’m not sure what you’re saying………….that the coach shouldn’t get any credit in haviing his overmatched team (they aren’t as good, they already missed their PG and then they lost one of their big stars) prepared to play as well as they did? We can agree to disagree……….I’m just looking forward to a very bright future for the Knicks
Little Dusty Tumbler!
Cute.
Tar April 20th, 2011 at 12:38 am
Wow a spider the size of my fist just sauntered across my floor. Don’t worry I saved him him with the help from my wife’s colander.
///
thumbs up.
I have a feeling Doc isn’t too thrilled with how his team is playing despite being up 2-0 – he flat out said they got lucky. I can see Boston coming out loaded for bear in game 3, but then I thought they’d do that tonight as well
Betsy
Give him all the credit you want.
But that doesn’t hide the fact that his flaws have been exposed in the series, and they dearly hurt his team.
The future is bright, and so is the present if Amare is healthy.
But the future would be brighter with a better coach.
Nice to see Tito have the same problems as Joe, with Wheeler and Okajima pissing away the game in the 8th.
Tar I disagree, tonight is just another in a line of poorly positioned games by Girardi. It doesn’t matter if the end result was the ball handed to Mariano with a 2 run lead. He still used 3 pitchers to get there when 2 would have sufficed. Its not crying about the loss, those happen, but looking at the strategy Girardi has employed it is too rigid.
Rich, well he’s not going anywhere……..not for at least a year, assuming (big IF) Walsh is back.
Boston is a parody of our troubles.
Betsy
How do you know that?
Rich, it’s just my opinion; I can’t see Walsh firing him………and I don’t think he deserves to be fired. However, we don’t even know if Donnie is coming back, so it’s probably premature to speculate
Making the franchise the best it can be should be the primary goal. There are better coaches out there. Feelings can’t be spared.