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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Hughes’ bullpen “not good”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Apr 25, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Phil Hughes’ bullpen did not go well this afternoon. He’ll now see a doctor to make sure there’s nothing physically wrong.

“Not good,” Joe Girardi said. “It just didn’t bounce back like we thought it would.”

Hughes had to cut the session short. He said it felt the same as his first fee starts when there just wasn’t much behind his pitches. Like “there was nothing there” according to Girardi.

“Every step we had taken had been positive up to this point,” Girardi said.

Hughes once again indicated there was no pain, just a lifeless feeling.

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143 Responses to “Hughes’ bullpen “not good””

  1. Mike in Harrisburg April 25th, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    Nerve problems?

  2. Web April 25th, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    Well that stinks.

  3. stuckey99 April 25th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    Verducci’ed

  4. austinmac April 25th, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    That does officially stink. They must feel he has some undiagnosed physical problem. You never have enough pitching.

  5. MTU April 25th, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    I’m no Dr. but I’m guessing an issue with his rotator cuff. I hope I’m wrong.

    :(

  6. TheMacster April 25th, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    Uh oh. Come on Phil. You gotta pitch this season man.

  7. Erin April 25th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    That’s too bad. :(

  8. Patrick April 25th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    Send him to Doctor Andrews

  9. Captain Clutch April 25th, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    This stinks but no one should be surprised. Something was obviously wrong and I was surrprised when the Yanks didn’t shut him down and send him for tests. Instead they let him keep throwing. It didn’t make sense at the time. The Yanks should of jumped on it right away. I hope it’s nothing serious but they treated this like the Wang injury…..like they had no idea what was going on.

  10. GreenBeret7 April 25th, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    BryanHoch Bryan Hoch
    Hughes cut his bullpen short. Girardi says “he just felt like nothing is there. And that’s a concern.” Said he felt no sharp pain though.

    wallacematthews Wallace Matthews
    Hughes has “a setback” in bullpen today, will see doctor this afternnon

  11. stuckey99 April 25th, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    “You never have enough pitching second baseman.”

  12. MTU April 25th, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    I’m hoping it’s just a tendonitis and not a structural issue.

  13. vinny-b April 25th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Phil Hughes really has been a one step forward, to steps back, type of pitcher/prospect to this point.

  14. Chuck April 25th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    stuckey99 April 25th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    “Verducci’ed”

    What does this mean? Not familiar.

  15. NYYROC April 25th, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    I hope they can find out what is wrong. Hughes is my favorite. I’m still hopeful he’ll win some big games for the NYY this year.

  16. JM April 25th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    Verducci has been tracking the effects of big innings jumps on young pitchers’ performance the following season:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

  17. MTU April 25th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    This never sounded like a typical “dead arm”.

    Hughes highest innings thrown was approx. 140 before last season.

    Last season he threw approx. 200 ininnings if you count the post-season.

    A jump of around 60 or so innings.

    The usual recommendation is no more than 40.

  18. Mike in Harrisburg April 25th, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    So all that nonsense with the Joba Rules and they screw the pooch with Phil.

  19. tampayank April 25th, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    rotation is in trouble long term, colon won’t hold out all season

  20. Erin April 25th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    eboland11 Hughes: “deadness. Almost the same feeling as before…it’s something I’m worried about.”

  21. Jerkface April 25th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    Verducci’s mostly been debunked.

  22. stuckey99 April 25th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    It would be gratifying to see if my fellow Yankees fans can take this unfortunate news in stride and not be fatalistic about it (assuming the worst) and more importantly, not succumb to the desire to find someone to blame.

  23. hardwired7 April 25th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    two words: loaded system

    the embarrassment of riches in the minors buys as much time as it takes for Hughes. plus, even if Colon and Garcia regress to their respective means, the consistent innings they should provide makes this far from a disaster.

  24. mick April 25th, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    # mick April 25th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Hughes has “a setback” in bullpen today, will see doctor this afternoon
    ===============
    Guess Nova stays…

  25. mick April 25th, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Maybe they should have babied Phil a little more last year?

  26. West Coast Yankee Fan April 25th, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    IMO the Yankees are handling this right. You don’t send someone to the doctor initially if there are no symptoms; no discomfort, tightness or pain. They correctly tried exercise and strength conditioning first. Now since that hasn’t worked, it’s time to see if it’s something physical.

  27. JM April 25th, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Verducci seems to focus heavily on the players who fit his formula, and conveniently ignore those who don’t.

  28. NYYROC April 25th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Cashman & Joe always talk about Phil as a big part of the team now & in the future. Hard to believe they didn’t have him checked out weeks ago. Wouldn’t you take every precaution with someone you think so highly of? Fingers crossed for Phil and the other young pitchers in the organization. Hoping the NYY figure out how to develop them.

  29. G-C April 25th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    If AJ keeps throwing the ball well, we can weather this.

    It does mean that I am expecting one of Brackman, Warren, or Phelps to make a significant (hopefully positive) contribution at some point.

    This is still sad though.

  30. mick April 25th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    stuckey99 April 25th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    It would be gratifying to see if my fellow Yankees fans can take this unfortunate news in stride and not be fatalistic about i
    ==================
    are you referring to anyone in particular?

  31. MTU April 25th, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    JF-

    “Verducci’s mostly been debunked.”

    Tell that to Phil.

  32. Jason Voorhees April 25th, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    And here come the doomsday predictions…

  33. austinmac April 25th, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    For the Pollyanna among us, it was obvious something was wrong and this is forcing them to find out the cause of the problem.

  34. stuckey99 April 25th, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    I was just being sarcastic when I wrote “Verducci’ed”.

    Frankly, I doubt there is any one way to “develop” a pitcher that works universally.

    Part of what makes the ML starting pitchers so special. It’s a physical crapshot

  35. blake April 25th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    Well this stinks….but Im glad they are doing something about it instead of pretending there is nothing wrong.

    Stuckey,

    The main point is that Felix instead of Cano is counter productive to a great degree. Felix + Cano is where its at and what would make this team a monster…..don’t know if that’s ever going to happen, but I don’t think trading Cano for him would either.

  36. stuckey99 April 25th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    “are you referring to anyone in particular?”

    No, i have little problem identifying people by name if that is my intent.

    Just ask her…:-)

  37. MTU April 25th, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    WCYF-

    I totally disagree. IMO Hughes should have had an MRI weeks ago. Just as a precaution.

    I stated as much. Many disagreed.

    You don’t ALWAYS feel pain when you are injured.

  38. Vineyard Yankee April 25th, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    It’s almost time for Millwood or Silva.

  39. BIG AL April 25th, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    Just wait till Phil’s girlfriend hears the news, it’ll be none stop ………………………………….. Phil.

  40. mick April 25th, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    mtu

    why do you think there has been no mri?

  41. joeman April 25th, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Geez..why can’t Humber be a lefty

    if Hughes really has a problem I’m going after King…. hard

  42. hardwired7 April 25th, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    does this maybe open the door to putting Hughes back in the pen when he gets the life back in his arm?

    he was unquestionably effective there, w/more life on his FB. unless/until he can harness a 3rd pitch, it might not be the worst idea.

  43. joeman April 25th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    # NYYROC April 25th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Cashman & Joe always talk about Phil as a big part of the team now & in the future. Hard to believe they didn’t have him checked out weeks ago. Wouldn’t you take every precaution with someone you think so highly of? Fingers crossed for Phil and the other young pitchers in the organization. Hoping the NYY figure out how to develop them.
    ——————————————
    hope they had him checked out before having him long tossing

  44. stuckey99 April 25th, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    Blake,

    IMO, sometimes you can’t not act upon an opportunity (even if this one is just fantastical) trying to hold out the perfect scenario.

    I mean it’s a GIVEN if you can get Hernandez without giving up Cano, you do that. But if it came down to a choice (which I think was the baseline assumption here), I’m saying I’d advocate the scenario in which they got FH over the one in which they did not.

  45. BIG AL April 25th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    No the King Feliz, a very big NO!

    If you’re going after a #1 stud, I’d rather we deal for Josh Johnson, but, with the way the Marlins are playing, they won’t give him up till the numbers say they can’t win this year.

  46. Vineyard Yankee April 25th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    BIG AL April 25th, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    ============

    LMAO ! Holocaust time ! Isn’t this the week of her trip ?

  47. joeman April 25th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    # mick April 25th, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    # mick April 25th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Hughes has “a setback” in bullpen today, will see doctor this afternoon
    ===============
    Guess Nova stays…
    ———————–
    wonderful…4+ innings & 80+ pitches

  48. austinmac April 25th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    MTU,

    The trouble with the MRI theory is his lack of symptoms. Their was a discussion of lack of leg drive by the teams some days ago. You can’t MRI the whole body. Pitching velocity is so much more than arm and shoulder.

    I agree they should have, and perhaps they did, have given him a very thorough orthopecic examination.

    I suspect they were acting a bit on hope and need. Losing him for an extended period was such an unattractive option.

  49. Irreverent Discourse April 25th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    felix is not for sale, stop talking about it.

  50. Jerkface April 25th, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    Tell that to Phil.

    Tell that to all the pitchers who increase their limits and then don’t die?

    here is an article about it: http://www.hardballtimes.com/m.....er-effect/

  51. Rich in NJ April 25th, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    As long as there really is no pain, I’m not that alarmed, but we’ll know more (or at least they’ll know more) soon.

  52. BIG AL April 25th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    To me that’s insane, even the thought of giving up one of the best young position players for a SP, even Felix is nuts.

    Yes, Felix is young, but he has a lot of innings on his arm, and it won’t be long before he joins the group of SP with TJ surgery, IMO.

  53. jeffc_76 April 25th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    Hughes was coddled to an extent last year. He had starts delayed/skipped. He had a fairly rigid innings limit by all accounts. Maybe it wasn’t done the “right way” in hindsight, if this turns out to be an injury caused by overuse, but to say the Yanks didn’t take notice of his innings progression from year to year isn’t true.

    As far as Colon breaking down, maybe he does; maybe he doesn’t. Recent history suggests he will at some point but it’s not entirely a foregone conclusion. Regardless, the team does have other arms to fall back on. Someone said an “embarrassment of riches” above which isn’t far off. Noesi, Warren, Brackman a phone call away. Banuelos and even Betances if the team decides to fast track those guys. Silva and (hold my nose) Millwood if they want a veteran. And probably most importantly, the trade chips to either get a solid veteran or two at the deadline, or even a true ace if one becomes available and we pay the price in prospects. I’ve been of the opinion that we needed at least a legit #2 this trade deadline to have a good chance in the postseason, and this situation with Hughes doesn’t change that. Burnett/Colon/Garcia exceeding expectations in the early going more than offsets the loss of Hughes. That could change a month from now or even a week from now, but for now the team is winning with the players we have.

  54. mick April 25th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    We might have to compete without this Ace you are all talking about.
    How many teams other than the Phillies have more than one Ace?
    If they are the gold standard , all teams are in trouble.

  55. NYYROC April 25th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    I suppose we’ll find out soon enough. It is just curious because he had pretty good velo throughout last year. PH even said he had it in the last game vs TX. He goes home for the winter, comes back and …nothing. If he’s injured when did it happen?

  56. MTU April 25th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    Mick-

    SJ addressed this a while back along with several others.

    I am paraphrasing but I believe the gist of what he said was that most pitcher’s arms would reveal abnormalities, and that this could lead to faulty conclusions on a course of action.

    If he is around he could correct me if I am misinterpreting what was said.

    In addition, many do not believe in exams when no pain is reported which supposedly was the case here.

    FWIS, I do not agree with that criterion because as I said above injuries are sometimes hidden and painless at certain stages.

    Caution should be the watchword IMO.

    Let’s hope no structural damage has been done at this point.

    I would imagine Andrews, or the guy who looked at jorge’s shoulder will be called in.

  57. joeman April 25th, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    # BIG AL April 25th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    No the King Feliz, a very big NO!

    If you’re going after a #1 stud, I’d rather we deal for Josh Johnson, but, with the way the Marlins are playing, they won’t give him up till the numbers say they can’t win this year.
    —————————————————–
    the two year age difference sways me towards King…..both are top 5 SP in the league

  58. Jerkface April 25th, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    http://www.theyankeeu.com/2009.....r-cut-6278

  59. blake April 25th, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    I prefer the Yankees not trade their best player ……..

  60. BIG AL April 25th, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    VY -

    Yes, I forgot about that. The poor Disney folks will hear the screams and think someone died.

  61. joeman April 25th, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    # austinmac April 25th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    MTU,

    The trouble with the MRI theory is his lack of symptoms. Their was a discussion of lack of leg drive by the teams some days ago. You can’t MRI the whole body. Pitching velocity is so much more than arm and shoulder.

    I agree they should have, and perhaps they did, have given him a very thorough orthopecic examination.

    I suspect they were acting a bit on hope and need. Losing him for an extended period was such an unattractive option.
    —————————————————————–
    had a body scan myself years ago and it spits out some telling stuff

  62. yclept April 25th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Felix Hernandez? Josh Johnson? If these types of pitchers were available, the Yankees would have already gone hard after one of them – healthy Phil or unhealthy Phil. Phil Hughes’ condition & production were going to be independent of the Yankees going after a stud starting pitcher. They are *always* going to be in the market for any top arm that hits the trade market.

    As for Phil himself, let us wait and see what the prognosis is. There isn’t much of blame to go around here – pitchers, by nature, are brittle creatures. If anyone had the “magic formula” that kept all pitchers healthy, he’d be a billionaire right now and we wouldn’t have issues like this. Stuff happens.

  63. joeman April 25th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    blake April 25th, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    I prefer the Yankees not trade their best player ……
    ———————
    and who is that

  64. MTU April 25th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Even if there is no structural damage and we’re merely dealing with a severe tendonitis there is still definitely something wrong with Phil’s arm.

    They need to find the exact cause before they can apply a remedy.

    That’s step 1.

    We go from there.

  65. mick April 25th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Unbelievable that with all their dramatic coddling of Hughes that this could be happening.
    Bring up Banuelos!
    Sooner rather than later…

  66. Rich in NJ April 25th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    “I am paraphrasing but I believe the gist of what he said was that most pitcher’s arms would reveal abnormalities, and that this could lead to faulty conclusions on a course of action.”

    Highly skilled orthopedists can distinguish facts from artifacts, and part of the way they do it is based on the patient’s reported level of pain.

  67. BIG AL April 25th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    blake -

    As you know, I agree 100%. You don’t trade a player that can carry the team for several years to come, not even for Felix.

    The White Sox will be in the selling game in the near future if they keep playing as they have. We can help that along this series.

  68. Jerkface April 25th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    http://www.advancednflstats.co.....ducci.html

  69. austinmac April 25th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    jeffc,

    The Yankees have an abundance of pitchers but the surplus is of old or ineffective starters or those who are not ready.

    Phelps, Warren and Brackman have not yet demonstrated a readiness in my view. Will they? I hope so.

  70. Mike in Harrisburg April 25th, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    So one of the young products of our system is having enigmatic throwing issues, likely as a result of overwork, and we want to being up another immature but high potential guy to replace him?

  71. stuckey99 April 25th, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    “I prefer the Yankees not trade their best player ……..”

    When did we start talking about Alex Rodriquez?

    “felix is not for sale, stop talking about it.”

    An astute poster would have concluded what’s what actually being discussed is the value of an elite starting pitcher vs the value of an elite everyday player, specifically as it pertains to the current Yankees team.

    No is is arguing “trade proposals”. It’s a baseball discussion.

  72. BIG AL April 25th, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    MTU -

    If Phil had severe tendonitis, he would be experiencing pain, no question. Hopefully if they do an MRI, its with contrast, so they get the best picture possible.

  73. joeman April 25th, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    # BIG AL April 25th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    blake -

    As you know, I agree 100%. You don’t trade a player that can carry the team for several years to come, not even for Felix.

    The White Sox will be in the selling game in the near future if they keep playing as they have. We can help that along this series.
    ——————————————————————–
    AL are talking about a player who hasn’t played a inning in the majors

  74. JobaTipsHisCap April 25th, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    too bad.
    Now Yanks need well-shaped Colon step in to eat innings.

  75. Jerkface April 25th, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    likely as a result of overwork

    This isn’t likely at all.

  76. Vineyard Yankee April 25th, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    BIG AL April 25th, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    VY -

    Yes, I forgot about that. The poor Disney folks will hear the screams and think someone died.

    ================

    Maybe she will forget to read the paper, being so busy and all. Or perhaps the news will be so tragic she will jump off the coaster in a panic and head home.

  77. joeman April 25th, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    you

  78. MTU April 25th, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    Rich-

    Pain is not always a reliable indicator of injury.

    Not a straight cause and effect.

    From the anecdotal evidence that we fans are privy to (ain’t much) it sound more like a severe tendonitis of the rotator cuff to me.

    If the rotator cuff is compromised in some way it is practically impossible to generate
    normal velocity.

    I hope I’m completely wrong but something is not right.

    They will need to find out what it is.

  79. hardwired7 April 25th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    the White Sox are 1-9 over their last 10 games. pitching and offensive #s are both @the bottom of the league.

    time for Ozzie to do something completely off the wall, make it an ‘us vs. them’ thing.

  80. LGY April 25th, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    I really don’t understand why people put Josh Johnson on the same level as Felix Hernandez.

    The guy is 2 years older than Felix and yet only has one season with 200 innings.

    Josh Johnson has elite best starter in MLB type stuff, but he just hasn’t proved his body can handle the workload of a front of the rotation ace. You can’t risk mortgaging the entire farm for a guy like that.

    Felix on the other hand can pitch 200 innings in his sleep. As a 20 year old he pitched more innings than Josh Johnson has ever done except for that one 209 inning season.

    King Felix is on the a different level than Josh Johnson who gets overrated on here IMO.

  81. blake April 25th, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    Stuckey,

    Alex may still be the best player now.but reality says he wont be forever and Cano was their best player last season.

  82. Vineyard Yankee April 25th, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    Parhaps he has a blood clot or something similar which he would most likely not feel. Regardless I would say he goes on total shutdown. No long toss, catch, tiddlywinks, jax etc.

  83. BklynBigCat April 25th, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    It’s a long shot, but could it be similar to what happened to Rocco Baldelli (metabolic/muscular disorder)?

    I absolutely hope it’s something less serious, like fatigue.

  84. joeman April 25th, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    # LGY April 25th, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    I really don’t understand why people put Josh Johnson on the same level as Felix Hernandez.

    The guy is 2 years older than Felix and yet only has one season with 200 innings.

    Josh Johnson has elite best starter in MLB type stuff, but he just hasn’t proved his body can handle the workload of a front of the rotation ace. You can’t risk mortgaging the entire farm for a guy like that.

    Felix on the other hand can pitch 200 innings in his sleep. As a 20 year old he pitched more innings than Josh Johnson has ever done except for that one 209 inning season.

    King Felix is on the a different level than Josh Johnson who gets overrated on here IMO.
    ——————————————-
    not going overrated route but agreeing

  85. MTU April 25th, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    Al-

    Not true at all. I had it in the shoulder. The deltoid muscle. No pain at all. just a dead and extremely tired feeling in the muscle.

    As if it had been severely overworked.

    No strength in the muscle at all.

    And your proprioception is very poor since your cant receive proper feedback from the sensory cells in the muscle.

  86. michaels07 April 25th, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    he may need an MRA.

  87. BIG AL April 25th, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    joeman -

    What are you talking about??

    I was thinking of either Jesse Crain or John Danks, not a minor leaguer.

  88. stuckey99 April 25th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Blake,

    I happen to think Sabathia was the Yankees most valuable player, which is guess best illustrates the philosophical divide.

    Again, I fully understand the pure statistical everyday player vs pitcher dynamic.

    But my assumption is take Cano away and the Yanks would still find enough offense to be in the mix last year.

    Take away Sabathia’s stabilizing 34 starts and 238 innings, and I have my doubts.

  89. JoeyA April 25th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    IMO,

    The kid is 24 and being that there’s no pain, I can’t imagine anything more than some inflammation or something minor.

    What does truly tick me off about this is the constant coddling this team does to avoid these types of situations.

    I’m not suggesting to be reckless with young SPs, but letting them stretch out their arms and throw
    more than 100 pitches isn’t the worst thing.

    IIRC, we were pulling this guy after 4-5 innings to limit him last year down the stretch. Idiotic.

  90. blake April 25th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    LGY,

    I pretty much agree with that. Felix is the best pitcher in baseball after Halladay who is almost 10 years older. Johnson is in that next tier of guys though, he’s really good and still has upside.

  91. Rich in NJ April 25th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    MTU

    Your point was that MRI can reveal what you called abnormalities in most pitchers’ arms.

    My point is that whether or not that is true, it really only becomes an issue when a pitcher isn’t effective.

    Usually, that’s the result of pain. If it is, pain threshold becomes an important part of the diagnosis and treatment.

    The larger point is that there are clinically significant abnormalities and clinically insignificant abnormalities and top orthopedists are very good at distinguishing between the two cases.

    Again, reported pain is a key to those gray areas.

    But really, if there is a clinically significant problem with Hughes, they will be able to determine that, and treat it accordingly.

  92. GreenBeret7 April 25th, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    Justin Maxwell with a 13th inning 2 out walkoff homer for scranton.

  93. BIG AL April 25th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    MTU -

    OK, that I’m not sure of, but, that would not be considered severe tendonitis.

  94. JoeyA April 25th, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    Is the board actually suggesting to trade, not only a player who plays in 150-162 games every year, but is an MVP candidate…

    ….for a guy that plays in 32-33 games?

    I dont care if we’re getting Koufax, unless Hamilton, Tulo, or Hanley is in the trade, Cano aint going anywhere.

    We’re reaching folks, we really are.

  95. RhapsodyInBlue April 25th, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    “Hughes once again indicated there was no pain, just a lifeless feeling.”

    I’m I reading The Onion?

  96. Warning Track Power April 25th, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    Does Dr Andrews have any plans tomorrow? I think he needs to see Hughes and find out what the problem is.

  97. 108 stitches April 25th, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Send Hughes to Dr. Andrews in Birmingham and move on without him. If he finds life at mid-season, so much the better. With a stocked system, a contingency mode can be used until the 7/31 trading deadline.

  98. RhapsodyInBlue April 25th, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    24 years old 6′ 5″ 240 LBs and he can’t throw 90 mph.

    What did he do in the off season?

  99. Mike_Boston April 25th, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    # Vineyard Yankee April 25th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    ============

    VY, that was an extremely ignorant and disgusting thing to joke about. How about some class next time? Say what you want about Betsy re: Phil, but to use that horrific event as a reference while slamming someone goes way beyond words and is totally offensive.

  100. stuckey99 April 25th, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    “Is the board actually suggesting to trade, not only a player who plays in 150-162 games every year, but is an MVP candidate…”

    For a team that has made the PS 15 of the last 16 years, very often very comfortably, and has the resources to keep that streak going for the foreseeable future..?

    Yeah…

    btw – just to drive this point to the ground.

    If given the choice today of Felix Hernandez, or Ryan Braun, Matt Kemp, Stephen Drew or some other stud that could be penned into left or SS for years to come, I choose Hernandez.

  101. Betsy April 25th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    RT @eboland11: Rothschild said “not to this extent” asked if he’s seen this kind of a prolonged dead arm issue in one of his pitchers before

    Really? And Larry decided not to recommend an MRI?

    I heard the news at work and I still have steam coming out of my ears. Now maybe the problem cropped up today, but there’s a chance it didn’t. I said much earlier the Yankees should have sent Phil for a precautionary MRI and if it turns out that he was injured and the Yankees just let him pitch/throw through it……..wow.

  102. MTU April 25th, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    Al-

    Mine was severe enough to require anti-inflammatories. Still not hint of pain.

    I’m just guessing here but I think they are going to have to completely shut Phil down for a while and then build him back up at the appropriate time.

    I hope I’m wrong and he can resume long toss, etc.

    I highly doubt it.

    I think the Physician is either going to find something, or prescribe rest and rehab.

    Hopefully the latter.

    I’d love to be wrong.

  103. PittsburghYankeeFan April 25th, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    Enough of this Hughes nonsense.

    He was lights out as a reliever in 09, and for the first 12-15 games of 10 he was phenominal. Other than that, meh. I’m with 108 and the others on this one.

    He is what he is at this point. Let’s hope they can get him figured out. However, they shouldn’t count on him.

    The pitching is what it is as well. Forget Felix Hernandez–Jack Z wanted Montero for 3 months of Cliff Lee, and then screwed the Yankees at the last minute. Why send the farm to that bozo? Jack Z’s getting fired by midseason anyway if the M’s continue their downward spiral for yet another year.

    It looks like the formula will be reclamation projects with a superior BP and lots of hitting. That will get them to the playoffs. Run CC out every third day in October and hope for the best (ie get to the 5th or 6th inning within 1 run of the lead, and have a short hook on your starter) otherwise.

    That may get them number 28.

  104. Rich in NJ April 25th, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    Betsy

    You’re not seriously suggesting that our judgment is superior to that of the Yankees’ medical staff are you? Maybe they are serially incompetent, but do we really have evidence of that?

    And btw, it’s not Rothschild’s role to recommend an MRI.

  105. Betsy April 25th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    Big Al, blow off you, jerk. If you have a problem with me, go to Chad and just TRY to have me banned. I eagerly await your pathetic response…. I don’t even think he’s that good, so don’t you be calling me his girlfriend. You might want to call Pat M or GB his father.

  106. Betsy April 25th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    Rich, I’m seriously suggesting that I agree with MTU and always have – an MRI should have been done.

  107. Mell April 25th, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    “I happen to think Sabathia was the Yankees most valuable player”

    I agree. He’s been their MVP in both 2009 and 2010.

  108. stuckey99 April 25th, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    “RT @eboland11: Rothschild said “not to this extent” asked if he’s seen this kind of a prolonged dead arm issue in one of his pitchers before

    “Really? And Larry decided not to recommend an MRI?”

    You misunderstood the context Betsy.

    Rothchild said he’s never see a dead arm last this long. NOT that he never saw such a severe dead arm.

    Hughes is now being checked out because his dead arm has outlasted normal expectations.

    You’re trying to criticize him for the wrong, misplaced thing.

  109. mick April 25th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    So its Montero,Nova, a killer B and a 4th guy for the King.
    Intriguing thought but simplistic.
    Wouldn’t the Yanks want to sample Montero in the majors and wouldn’t Seattle be watching?
    Same goes for Betances or Banuelos, which would have to be their choice.
    Nova and a 4th guy would be throw-ins.

    They might want both B’s.

  110. Nick in SF April 25th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    “Not good” in Girardi-speak means that Phil’s right arm is no longer attached to his body and he’ll be long-tossing left tomorrow. :cry:

    I blame lack of LoHud support.

  111. blake April 25th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    Stuckey,

    You take Felix and Ill take Cano or Tulo or whoever and your team will be better than mine 1 out of 5 games.

  112. Rich in NJ April 25th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    Betsy

    Based on what? I mean, you’re not a doctor or even a physical therapist, right?

  113. mick April 25th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    Wow, what an entrance!

  114. Tom in N.J. April 25th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    If Hughes said he felt no pain then the Yankees couldn’t make him do an MRI, could they?

  115. PittsburghYankeeFan April 25th, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    Another random thought.

    Get on the phone and literally beg Pettitte to come back. He could be ready by late May-early June. Offer him 12-13 million for the remainder of the season.

    Smacks of desperation? Of course. Happening? In my dreams…

  116. Rich in NJ April 25th, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    “You take Felix and Ill take Cano or Tulo or whoever and your team will be better than mine 1 out of 5 games.”

    As would I, and also because pitchers are far more fragile.

  117. LGY April 25th, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    “I blame lack of LoHud support.”

    ————–

    Time to form the PFOPs?

    Or the PFOHs?

    No, definitely PFOPs. PFOHs sounds too Boston for my taste.

  118. Betsy April 25th, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    Stuckey, maybe so……but obviously this has not been a good situation from day 1. The Yankees insisted Phil was ok physically……….so, if it turns out that he aggravated a condition that maybe could have been avoided, that’s not exactly something they should be proud of.

  119. Betsy April 25th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    Ok, well at this point the only thing to do his hope he’s ok… I wasn’t counting on him for awhile, but you don’t want to see any pitcher experience this, whether he’s on your team or not.

  120. blake April 25th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    I do agree that Sabathia has been the Yanks MVP the last couple years but a big reason why is that the rest of the staff has been so bad

  121. GreenBeret7 April 25th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    Well, this board is going to be a dead zone tonight, with all of the “Trade Cano And Anybody Else They Want For Hernandez Or Johnson” people and the doctors at The LoHud Medical Clinic.

  122. stuckey99 April 25th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    ““Not good” in Girardi-speak means that Phil’s right arm is no longer attached to his body and he’ll be long-tossing left tomorrow.”

    The Lohud Girardi-to-English translation guide didn’t work so well in regards to Granderson and appears to have been off for Cervelli.

    One returned and the other seems poised to return sooner than Girardi’s one-time vague comments suggested to some they meant.

    But yeah, let’s go with that anyway.

  123. 108 stitches April 25th, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    RhapsodyInBlue April 25th, 2011 at 5:08 pm
    24 years old 6? 5? 240 LBs and he can’t throw 90 mph.

    What did he do in the off season?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    That’s a mystery. From having been there in Tampa, Hughes wasn’t seen much except for some fielding drills and occasional long tossing. He did early (8:00 AM) bullpen sessions with Rothschild and Girardi watching but little with views from spectators.
    It’s not expected in early March that pitchers throw with full velocity so he looked like any other pitcher until the bell rang.

  124. Irreverent Discourse April 25th, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    betsy is here, time to leave.

  125. Tom in N.J. April 25th, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    This has to be the worst case of dead arm since Stonewall Jackson…

  126. BIG AL April 25th, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    Betsy -

    Are you on drugs? When did I ever mention your name? And when did I ever say anything about wanting to get you banned?

    You seem to over-react about every issue on this board, and then fantatize that people are saying or doing things they never have, get a grip.

  127. jacksquat April 25th, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    I would get used to this rotation for a while:

    CC – Garcia – AJ – Nova – Colon

  128. Nick in SF April 25th, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    And just days ago stuckey was complaining about someone’s literal, humor-draining reply to some other topic. :roll:

  129. Warning Track Power April 25th, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    in situations like this, the level of intelligence takes a dip.

    the wanna-be GM’s attempt to shine. these same “dopes” get creative with what they think are the best ideas
    for the most part, we all know the ideas are among the worst of the day.

    they make me laugh and remind me that i am very fortunate to not be among that
    group of “fans”.

  130. Betsy April 25th, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    Yes! ID is leaving!

  131. stuckey99 April 25th, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    “Stuckey, maybe so……but obviously this has not been a good situation from day 1. The Yankees insisted Phil was ok physically……….so, if it turns out that he aggravated a condition that maybe could have been avoided, that’s not exactly something they should be proud of.”

    Betsy, why don’t we wait and see. I was just pointing out something in regards to what got you steaming. I think that was a slight misinterpretation in your part.

  132. Betsy April 25th, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    Stuckey, I said that waiting and seeing was all we can do now.

  133. West Coast Yankee Fan April 25th, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    MTU April 25th, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    WCYF-I totally disagree. IMO Hughes should have had an MRI weeks ago. Just as a precaution.
    I stated as much. Many disagreed. You don’t ALWAYS feel pain when you are injured.

    **************

    Don’t you think that all the Yankee coaches, management personnel, trainers, doctors, etc., had discussed this? Do you think they want to do the wrong thing? Talk to any orthopedist, you don’t run off and get an MRI every time you feel tired or weak.

  134. mick April 25th, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    guess betsy got off her roller coaster to join in the festivities, for once i am not her target.

    Big Al Sez

    See y’all later…

  135. RadioKev April 25th, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    Maybe it was just a bad bullpen. He’s had a few successful-feeling bullpens leading up to this.

  136. Captain Clutch April 25th, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    At the trade deadline Cashman will be doing what he does every year…looking for a starting pitcher. It’s amazing how every year it’s the same crap. Colon probably doesn’t have that many innings in him so they will need a replacement for him at some point.

  137. hardwired7 April 25th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    maybe Phil is a zombie.

  138. stuckey99 April 25th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    “You take Felix and Ill take Cano or Tulo or whoever and your team will be better than mine 1 out of 5 games.”

    As I say Blake, Cano was terrible for 15 games in 2009 and the Yankees went 11-4…

    “I do agree that Sabathia has been the Yanks MVP the last couple years but a big reason why is that the rest of the staff has been so bad.”

    That can be played both ways.

    Yes, Sabathia’s worth was/is in relation to his rotation mates, but Cano’s value is also relative to the offense surrounding him.

    I look at the current Yankees roster and I see Hernandez as having a greater relative impact for the very same reason you agree with.

    You seem to be suggesting Sabathia’s impact is great, but that a similar impact would be much less valuable because there already is a Sabathia.

    Not sure I see the logic.

  139. mick April 25th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    NEXT====>>>>>

  140. stuckey99 April 25th, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    Problem is, you were kidding Nick.

    Some people around here really believe it.

  141. BIG AL April 25th, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    There have been several MLB players that had blood clots that caused various problems, and never experienced pain.

    If Phil has a physical problem, I’m sure the doctors will find it.

    That’s it for me, no more Phil talk.

  142. Nick in SF April 25th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    I do not see a problem.

    (except the massive, franchise-killing problem we now have with Phil Hughes as per Girardi’s apocolypic pronouncement)

  143. stuckey99 April 25th, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    Nick, as if right on cue…

    “RMS April 25th, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    “Re: Hughes.
    “If Girardi , who hardly admits anything publicly, is “concerned” I think the Dr. will have some kind of tests done on Phil.”

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