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Hughes not alone in post-2010 struggles

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Apr 26, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Sports Illustrated’s Tom Verducci helped push the idea of innings limits pitchers into the mainstream. Call it whatever you like — the Verducci Effect, the Year After Effect, the Rule of 30 — but it’s become widely accepted that young pitchers who experience a significant workload increase are at risk of a season like Phil Hughes is having right now.

When Verducci singled out 11 pitchers who might be at risk this year, Hughes was the sixth name on the list. Verducci called him “lower-risk” because of his age (nearly 25) and his size (6-foot-5 and well over 200 pounds), but Hughes made the cut after a significant innings bump last season. So did Ivan Nova, by the way.

Now Hughes is going for an MRI even though he feels perfectly healthy. The Yankees have to send him for medical tests because they can’t figure out what else might be wrong with him.

“Usually if a guy says he has pain you go for MRIs,” Joe Girardi said. “He just said he felt like it was dead and there wasn’t a lot coming out. We figured that maybe he needed to be built up. We put him on a program, and now that the program didn’t seem to work, then we go get an MRI. He still says he’s not experiencing pain.”

It could be that Hughes’ problems are little more than last year’s workload catching up to him. And he might not be alone.

The first three names on Verducci’s list heading into this season were Madison Bumgarner, Alex Sanabia and Mat Latos.

Bumgarner’s velocity has been just fine — higher than last year according to FanGraphs — but he has a 7.79 ERA through four starts for the Giants. Sanabia is on the Triple-A disabled list and has yet to pitch for the Marlins. Latos has a 5.94 ERA and has seen a slight dip in his velocity for the Padres.

Travis Wood, Brett Cecil and Nova have also struggled after having their names on Verducci’s list. David Price, Brandon Beachy, Gio Gonzalez and Dillon Gee were on the list and have pitched well.

“I’ve seen a lot of young pitchers that have thrown a lot of innings a year before and not come back quite with the same velocity,” Girardi said. “I think Cecil went through it. I can’t tell you exactly what’s going on with Cecil in Toronto, but here’s a guy that we had as hard as 92-93 and you weren’t seeing that (when the Yankees faced him last week), and he just got sent down. Guys have taken steps backward after being extended, more innings that they’re accustomed to doing, but as I said, there is a level of concern (with Hughes) because everything seemed to be going in the right direction and it kind of halted a little bit today.”

Of the names on Verducci’s list, the Cecil comparison seems to be the best one to match next to Hughes. They’re the same age and saw a pretty similar increase last season. Cecil was optioned to Triple-A after the Yankees knocked him around on Wednesday. Here are two paragraphs from the MLB.com story about Cecil’s demotion.

The 24-year-old has been suffering from a loss of velocity on his fastball. Cecil is used to throwing from 90-94 mph, but during Spring Training and the early stages of the 2011 season, he was consistently clocked in the mid-to-high 80s.

That loss of velocity caused him to overthrow the ball at times in an effort to increase speed. That led to his pitches being elevated in the zone and success for opposing hitters quickly followed.

It reads like a Hughes story. Just like the Yankees coaching staff when talking about Hughes, the Blue Jays coaching staff has been quoting talking a lot about control and confidence, but the velocity issue lingers. Toronto ultimately decided to option Cecil rather than put him on the disabled list. The Yankees considered doing the same with Hughes.

It could be that today’s MRI will show some sort of damage to Hughes’ shoulder, or it could be that Hughes is simply feeling the impact of 2010, just like a lot of other young pitchers.

Associated Press photos

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482 Responses to “Hughes not alone in post-2010 struggles”

  1. Erin April 26th, 2011 at 8:49 am

    It’s an epidemic. ;)

    Hoping for the best re: the MRI today

  2. Mike Ri April 26th, 2011 at 8:51 am

    Good Luck Hughes ! .. feel better bud ! .

  3. Mike_Boston April 26th, 2011 at 8:54 am

    Mick,
    If you’re there, remember you answered it was a coincidence when I asked the question about my Yankee shot glass getting broken? Sure enough you were right, my housekeeper copped to it, happened the day after the exterminator was there. My faith in humanity has been restored.

  4. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 8:55 am

    I say again for the record.

    It’s one thing to have a tired arm, and another thing to have a complete loss of muscular endurance over an EXTENDED period of time with a dead feeling.

    My theory is that the Yankees mistook tired arm for tendonitis.

    I hope I’m wrong.

    Either way I don’t expect to see Phil back for at least a month, and that’s the optimist’s POV.

  5. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2011 at 8:58 am

    MTU-

    Montero is only 20 yo. With his bat and power, he could be the next superstar in New York. I would only “consider” trading him for a pitcher who was 25-26 or younger like Clayton Kershaw(23) or Felix Hernandez(25).

    As for the MRI on Hughes, yes I think it should have been done earlier-probably in Tampa when he had no velocity in his last few starts.

    There was a question last night if it was thought maybe this was a blood clot.

    Unless he is experiencing cold/numb fingers/hand, then no I don’t think this will turn out to be similar to David Cone who had numbness/tingling in his fingers.

  6. Shame Spencer April 26th, 2011 at 9:01 am

    Soriano not catching that ball? Good grief.

    And I’m so… confused. This whole Hughes thing is such a mystery. Its been giving me Chein-Ming Wang nightmares.

  7. upstate kate April 26th, 2011 at 9:02 am

    Could the lack of strength be related to the fact that Phil did less training in the off season this year? I read somewhere that he started later, or didn’t train as hard as he had in past years due to the increased workload last year.

  8. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:04 am

    YT-

    Again, I’m no Dr. but I just don’t think it’s a clot either because of the lack of associated symptoms.

    The most consistent reported symptom coming from Phil is a completey dead feeling in his arm after use.

    It goes way beyond a normal feeling of fatigue.

    To me that speaks of tendonitis not a lack of conditioning.

    They are very different animals.

    Could one lead to the other ? Sure. But that’s no longer the issue.

    The real issue IMO is clearing the problem.

    We’ll see what the real Dr. says.

    I just hope that thru trying to work out the problem in the standard way other problems weren’t caused.

    Fingers crossed.

  9. Shame Spencer April 26th, 2011 at 9:05 am

    This stuff from the paper is just so scary.

    “Shortly after 3 p.m. yesterday, Phil Hughes walked into the bullpen at Yankee Stadium hoping to take the next step toward returning to the Yankees’ starting rotation.

    Minutes later, Hughes walked out discouraged and unsure of when he will pitch again.

    Hughes cut the bullpen session short when he felt “deadness” in his right arm after throwing around 12 pitches.”

    How does this happen?! Especially when a few days ago he was saying he was feeling better and that he just wasn’t sure about his velocity because of a lack of game-time adrenaline?

  10. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:09 am

    Kate-

    Their could be numerous reasons why Hughes is having these issues.

    In other words the cause(s).

    I listed a few possibilties the other day:

    Innings overhang from last season

    Too much tinkering with his 2ndary ptiches especially overuse of the cutter.

    Coming into camp a little out of shape

    Not enough innings in ST

    A hidden injury, or metabolic disorder.

    Etc.

    The most important thing for phil right now is to hope that Ahmad
    does not find any significant structural damage.

    If that turns out to be the case we crossed the Rubicon because
    rest and rehab should take care of the problem.

  11. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:10 am

    Shame-

    I have been trying to provide an explanation and some background in my posts this morning.

  12. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2011 at 9:14 am

    I included a pretty good article about shoulder tendonitis/bursitis.

    MTU-
    Unless he has a very high threshold to pain, I would think if it was tendonitis he’d have one of the symptoms mentioned in this article.

    http://orthopedics.about.com/c.....rsitis.htm

  13. Wang IS Taiwan April 26th, 2011 at 9:15 am

    I had read the Phil showed up much earlier to spring training than the other pitchers — that he was working in Tampa while Jeter was working on his swing. That doesn’t account for what he was doing in the off-season, though. I was disappointed to read he was out of shape. I expected more from Phil than say…Joba who has always seemed a tad lazy to me and much enamored with his new-found fame than Phil. And yes…I’m judging from afar.

  14. 108 stitches April 26th, 2011 at 9:19 am

    The Yankees have tried everything with Phil Hughes except a visit to Dr. Andrews in Alabama and a lie detector test.
    Adjust plans accordingly and move on without him. If he overcomes his problems it’s like an bonus added at the 7/31 trading deadline.

  15. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:19 am

    YT-

    All I can tell you is that I had Deltoid tendonitis w/o any hint of pain.

    It results in a “dead feeling” in the affected muscle group and a total
    lack of any muscular endurance.

    Your arm feels like a combination of a lead weight and a numbness of the area.

    In my case, the Physicain prescribed anti-inflammatories and rest.

    In about 2 weeks the problem was completely gone and it has never returned.

    It’s a very strange thing. It just seems to come out of nowhere.

    It wasn’t gradual. I just woke up with it one morning. To this day I
    can’t pin it to a particular activity or event.

    I’m just glad to be rid of it.

  16. RadioKev April 26th, 2011 at 9:19 am

    I’m also still sticking with the innings hangover. It’s just that Yankee fans don’t know anything about that, because we haven’t had decent young pitchers in pretty much a generation.

  17. Vineyard Yankee April 26th, 2011 at 9:20 am

    The Yanks need to let the Hughes ‘dead arm’ get a diagnosis then let it run its course. Move forward with the guys at AAA. There is a reason that Cashman has signed Millwood, Silva and Prior and this is it.

  18. Shame Spencer April 26th, 2011 at 9:22 am

    I was disappointed to read Hughes was out of shape as well, Wang. I dunno how it got overlooked with everyone being so concerned with Joba’s fitness. Then again, I also thought Phil was working on his pitches MORE this off season so I’m a bit confused about that as well. Was he just working on his pitches but not keeping himself in shape? Is that even possible?

    MTU – Thanks for the perspective. I just feel like everyone is very confused about this. The organization, the coaches, the medical staff… and thats so frustrating. Like I said earlier, it reminds me too much of the Chein-Ming Wang situation.

    And are we still totally ruling out a blood clot? : “He likened it to the feeling you get in your leg if it gets hit hard and goes numb.”

  19. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:22 am

    YT-

    On the Montero thing.

    I wasn’t suggesting we consider trading him for anything less than a stud pitcher of the type you mentioned.

    There are some who think he should be untouchable.

    With the advent of Martin I would think he becomes less so.

    That was my point.

    :)

  20. pat April 26th, 2011 at 9:23 am

    The surprise would be an MRI of a ML pitcher not showing some level of tendonitis and 2 or 3 other itis-s too.

    Whether any of those itis-s is responsible and if treating them will solve the mystery of the missing velocity won’t be answered today.

    Is finding structural damage on the MRI the preferred outcome than more mystery? As nerve wracking as it likely is for Phil, I’m hoping for more mystery and less damage.

  21. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:24 am

    Shame-

    That is exactly how my tendonitis felt.

    It is very wierd. If you haven’t experienced it it’s kind of hard to relate to.

  22. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:26 am

    Pat-

    I don’t agree. This does not sound like the “normal” aches, pains and inflammation.

    It sounds way different.

    I too am hoping for no structural damage.

  23. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:27 am

    Pat-

    And IF they diagnose Phil with tendonitis of the rotator cuff for example, it would explain a lot.

  24. Shame Spencer April 26th, 2011 at 9:29 am

    MTU – That sounds so bizarre, yet I really hope thats what he has! At least he’d be able to rehab it without losing a giant chunk of the season.

  25. BoJo April 26th, 2011 at 9:30 am

    MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:22 am
    YT-

    On the Montero thing.

    I wasn’t suggesting we consider trading him for anything less than a stud pitcher of the type you mentioned.

    There are some who think he should be untouchable.

    With the advent of Martin I would think he becomes less so.
    ______________
    That was my point as well this spring when I was talking about trading him. If Cashman perceives that Montero will not be the #1 catcher (for whatever reason, including Martin taking over), then Montero will have a lot less value to Cash and he will move Montero. At the time, I was saying I would be willing to do so for Gio Gonzales.

  26. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Shame-

    Exactly. Good point. It’s sounds crazy but a diagnosis of no structural damage with just tendonitis would actually be good news for the reason you mention.

    :)

  27. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Bojo-

    I’m not sure Gio rises to a high enough level to include Jesus.

  28. austinmac April 26th, 2011 at 9:34 am

    MTU,

    I agree with you about Montero. With Martin here, he is a man without a position except DH. That said, he has a lot of value. He isn’t untouchable, but, as a practical matter, none of the pitchers I would deal him for will likely be available.

    I think Kershaw is probably the least likely to get dealt. MLB is not going to want to the LA fanbase to perceive any sell off.

    I understand that teams don’t like to DH their young players, but Montero may well be needed as Posada looks like he has aged rapidly. They cannot have a LF and a DH hitting what they are hitting.

  29. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2011 at 9:36 am

    MTU & Shame Spencer

    If the MRI is negative, Hughes needs to be seen by a very astute internist to R/O other uncommen causes of arm weakness. Did Hughes even get a course of anti-inflammatories?

    If there is associated coldness/numbness of the hand/fingersthen yes this could be secondary to a clot or maybe a thoracic outet syndrome affecting the brachial plexus.

  30. BoJo April 26th, 2011 at 9:37 am

    MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:32 am
    Bojo-

    I’m not sure Gio rises to a high enough level to include Jesus.
    ______________
    I think he has more upside potential than others here do. I see a young lefty still learning his craft…Would also move Montero for John Danks–IF Cashman is going to move him.

    But like you, my real wish is that Montero would stay a Yankee. I would love to see him as DH hitting in middle of lineup for years to come.

  31. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:37 am

    Austin-

    It’s just speculation at this point because we have no idea if Martin can stay healthy and continue to produce.

    I was just wondering what people though in relation to Jesus.

    Jesus + gets you something very nice I would think.

  32. BoJo April 26th, 2011 at 9:38 am

    MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:37 am

    Jesus + gets you something very nice I would think.
    ______________
    IF Cashman were creative, he’d package Jesus and Pope and sell it to another GM as a religious experience.

  33. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:39 am

    YT-

    It a trouble-shooting process with 1 step at time.

  34. RadioKev April 26th, 2011 at 9:39 am

    This Montero talk is silly. Russell Martin is not the future. He’s entering his prime years now and Sanchez is too far away to make any serious judgements on his talent.

    You don’t go and trade Montero for Gio Gonzalez. Cashman had a trade OKed for Cliff Lee with Montero. Since that trade offer, Montero has only proved more and more that he is a serious hitting prospect. He’s also proven he can be adequate behind the plate. His value has only increased. I think, if Cashman had an agreement to trade Montero for Lee, you don’t back down on that value, and Gonzalez is down a step from Lee.

  35. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:39 am

    Bojo-

    I have to think about it for Danks.

  36. Joe from Long Island April 26th, 2011 at 9:42 am

    Good morning –

    1. Tough loss last night, but I thought Humber’s ball was moving.

    2. Brett needs to get his act together at the plate. Despite his big game in Baltimore, he appears lost. Given that he’s not fully established himself yet, and he does not appear to be a natural to the game of baseball, Cash might be looking at corner OFs. He likely is, already.

    3. Tough about Phil. I’m not a sports medicine specialist, I’m not going to speculate, in the absence of any data such as physical exam, and more detailed knowledge than what we get from the media, as to what’s going on.

    I wish I was as smart as some folks here, who believe they can absolutely, positively, without any doubt, know what Phil’s problem is, how it could have been prevented, and how to treat it.

    Then again, maybe I shouldn’t wish to be “that smart”…..

  37. austinmac April 26th, 2011 at 9:42 am

    I don’t know if Martin has any more health risk than any other catcher. Perhaps, his hip cn be a recurrent issue, but I have no reason to think so. His knee surgery was very minor. I had similar surgery years ago and can’t even remember which knee it was on.

    Does anyone know of a scouting report on Manny’s last game? He has pitched well but has had some control issues.

    Last week Betances was said to have improved enough to pitch this week. Is that scheduled?

    So many questions.

  38. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:45 am

    Austin-

    YF is a great source on Manny along with Prufrock.

    She would a good one to ask.

    :)

  39. BoJo April 26th, 2011 at 9:45 am

    RadioKev April 26th, 2011 at 9:39 am
    ____________________
    I disagree, but respect your right to your own opinion

    Montero might have answered the questionsw about his hitting, but he hasn’t proven he is a better catcher than Martin–a former all-star, silver slugger, gold glove winner who can catch 120-130 games a year for the next 4-5 years.

    And even if Montero can hit, as a DH, he is worth a lot less in Cashman’s mind as Cash can buy a decent DH for $5M per year as a FA.

    And as far as Gio goes, people are evaluating him based on his age 24 year, not his progression as a crafty left-handed pitcher with a killer change up and curve. Those types do very well in YS.

  40. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2011 at 9:46 am

    Would anyone have traded Mike Piazza in his prime for Gio Gonzalez or John Danks?

    Montero is a 20 yo stud who while waiting for the catching job/ could certainly provide a very potent bat at DH right now.

  41. Mike Ri April 26th, 2011 at 9:47 am

    I have Gio on my Fantasy Baseball team . . .the dude is a stud ! .. But I think i like Brett Anderson better

  42. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:47 am

    Joe-

    Are you referring to me ?

    If you are, I am just trying to relate Phil’s report to my experience.

    The “report” sounds eerily similar.

    I’m not trying to present myself as any kind of an expert just as a
    cpncerned fan searching for answers.

    Hope that explains my POV.

  43. blake April 26th, 2011 at 9:47 am

    “Russell Martin is not the future. He’s entering his prime years now and Sanchez is too far away to make any serious judgements on his talent.”

    He’s likely not the long term future but if he’s back to what he was 2-3 years ago then that was one of the better catchers in baseball…..this isn’t cervelli tearing it up for a month, Martin is a great talent in his own right.

    He’s not the long term future but entering his prime years he could be a part of the short term future there and either help Montero develop or cushion the blow if Montero is traded. We have to see if he can sustain this…..but if he can then you have a very talented guy who is entering his physical prime and can at the very least keep the seat warm until one of the guys that’s coming is ready to take over…..that might be Montero next year or Sanchez in 4 years or someone else entirely.

  44. pat April 26th, 2011 at 9:47 am

    Joe

    You’re an MD in real life but don’t want to play one on a blog?

    How professional of you. :wink:

  45. austinmac April 26th, 2011 at 9:49 am

    Joe from LI,

    Don’t let your medical training prevent you from sheer speculation. We want a diagnosis, treatment plan and date of recovery by 11:00 please. :)

  46. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:50 am

    Pat-

    This whole board is about speculation. Wild and otherwise.

    Nothing wrong with it IMO.

  47. Triple Short of a Cycle April 26th, 2011 at 9:51 am

    Cash wouldn’t even trade for Haren when he was gift wrapped to us last year so I wouldn’t hold much hope of any pitcher much better then Brett Myers or Wandy coming here

  48. Wang IS Taiwan April 26th, 2011 at 9:51 am

    Yankee Trader — they did mention in the newspaper a few days ago that Phil was on anti-flams. I think someone made a smart remark about the reporter who asked Phil what they were supposed to do…it was kind of funny. PHil said — anti-inflame the area or something like that.

    I’ve been waiting for the Yankees to actually have his arm thoroughly checked out my doctors. I’m glad they’re finally taking that step. I’d want to rule out everything I could from the get-go — not simply do this piece-meal. But that’s me…

  49. David in Cal April 26th, 2011 at 9:52 am

    Very interesting article. If Hughes’s problem is the “Verducci Effect”, that doesn’t mean there’s no medical problem. Presumably the Verducci Effect happens because the young pitcher’s high innings cause some physical effect on the arm. Hopefully the doctors can figure out what Hughes’s problem is and hopefully they can cure it soon. My best wishes go to Hughes.

  50. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2011 at 9:53 am

    !00 Causes of Arm Weakness for the Diagnostician at heart:

    http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/.....causes.htm

    :)

  51. Wang IS Taiwan April 26th, 2011 at 9:53 am

    MTU — it is interesting to hear your perspective. I’ve never suffered this particular injury or sensation, so it’s hard to imagine how it feels for Hughes.

  52. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:55 am

    Wang-

    It is very unusual and distinctive.

    Once you’ve felt it you would remember it. And not in a good way.

  53. Wang IS Taiwan April 26th, 2011 at 9:56 am

    Oh, I thought every posting on this board was checked by unseen “Lohud fact checkers” and verified before being allowed to show up. :)

    Love speculation — isn’t that what fans do best??

  54. pat April 26th, 2011 at 9:56 am

    Phil is scheduled for circulation testing in addition to the MRI.

    http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/.....nopaging=1

  55. BoJo April 26th, 2011 at 9:56 am

    Yankee Trader April 26th, 2011 at 9:46 am
    Would anyone have traded Mike Piazza in his prime for Gio Gonzalez or John Danks?
    ___________
    Yes–

    May 22, 1998: Traded by the Florida Marlins to the New York Mets for Geoff Goetz (minors), Preston Wilson and Ed Yarnall.

  56. austinmac April 26th, 2011 at 9:57 am

    They said on the Yes broadcast last night his arm felt as if someone had just punched it. Not sure what that tells us. I do think it would be positive for an MRI to find something. Something can be treated whereas mysterious weakness cannot.

  57. Jerkface April 26th, 2011 at 9:57 am

    I want Martin AND montero catching/hitting for the Yankees. Can’t I have both?

  58. Wang IS Taiwan April 26th, 2011 at 9:57 am

    Don’t like Brett Myers’s character — wife=beater. Not the kind of guy you want on the Yankees team…yes, just my opinion.

  59. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2011 at 9:58 am

    Joe-
    Could you ask the Yankees to review the medical reports and come back to the blog in a few hours with a Dx? HIPPA violation? :)

  60. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 9:58 am

    Austin-

    That is one way I would have described the way mine felt too.

  61. BoJo April 26th, 2011 at 9:58 am

    Jerkface April 26th, 2011 at 9:57 am
    I want Martin AND montero catching/hitting for the Yankees. Can’t I have both?
    ______________
    They sure would be the best at blocking the plate in baseball. No one could get past both of them!

  62. Jerkface April 26th, 2011 at 9:58 am

    !00 Causes of Arm Weakness for the Diagnostician at heart:

    I knew it was Guillain-Barre Syndrome :x

  63. Jerkface April 26th, 2011 at 9:59 am

    Don’t like Brett Myers’s character — wife=beater. Not the kind of guy you want on the Yankees team…yes, just my opinion.

    But if they acquired him you’d be legally obligated to cheer for him or else turn in your fan card :twisted:

  64. blake April 26th, 2011 at 9:59 am

    The circulation testing is probably a good idea.

  65. austinmac April 26th, 2011 at 10:00 am

    Yankee Trader,

    I will point out Montero is not in his prime. He is in the minors. Potential, yes, MLB proven, no.

  66. blake April 26th, 2011 at 10:00 am

    “I want Martin AND montero catching/hitting for the Yankees. Can’t I have both?”

    Yes

  67. BoJo April 26th, 2011 at 10:00 am

    !00 Causes of Arm Weakness for the Diagnostician at heart:
    ______________
    Is global warming listed?

  68. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 10:01 am

    Blake-

    It’s a step by step process of elimination.

    Start with the obvious and work your way thru as needed.

    :)

  69. Vineyard Yankee April 26th, 2011 at 10:02 am

    Montero got sent down to AAA to continue his development as a catching prospect. It is a good thing that Cashman and Co. are calling the shots as it seems that some of the LoHuder’s here would have shipped him out a long time ago.

    Cashman has a plan and that is why he signed Millwood, Silva and Prior. I say he sticks to his plan, doesn’t just trade to make a trade. He will only deal if it is too good to pass up.

  70. Triple Short of a Cycle April 26th, 2011 at 10:02 am

    The Verducci Effect has been debunked. Look at his “great” record from last year

  71. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2011 at 10:03 am

    Would anyone have traded Mike Piazza in his prime for Gio Gonzalez or John Danks?
    ___________
    Yes–

    May 22, 1998: Traded by the Florida Marlins to the New York Mets for Geoff Goetz (minors), Preston Wilson and Ed Yarnall.
    —————————————

    Bojo-

    Thanks. I just don’t think “IF” Montero has a career that Mike Piazza had, that Gio Gonzalez or John Danks would have been worth trading him. :)

  72. Triple Short of a Cycle April 26th, 2011 at 10:04 am

    Vineyard Yankee,

    Like the deal that was too good to pass up for Haren. Oh wait he did pass it up.

    Or you mean him saying he wouldn’t pay twice in prospects and money to sign a guy. Oh wait he would have done that last year with Lee

  73. Jerkface April 26th, 2011 at 10:04 am

    Martin looks like the kind of front line catcher great teams usually employ. I love that. Its still early though, a lot can happen after a hot start. Doesn’t make sense to ship out Montero simply based on that (there would have to be other reasons, like Romine stating a good case to be improved this year). Montero doesn’t have to be a 120 game catcher to help the Yankees. He can be a 60 game catcher and 100 game DH and be one of the better players in the league. Victor Martinez-lite (heavy?)

  74. Vineyard Yankee April 26th, 2011 at 10:05 am

    Wang IS Taiwan April 26th, 2011 at 9:57 am

    Don’t like Brett Myers’s character — wife=beater.

    ===========

    That seems to fit him, the good thing is he would have fielded that ball behind the mound last night.

  75. Wang IS Taiwan April 26th, 2011 at 10:06 am

    Jerkface,

    Truth be told, in the past I have failed to cheer for some individual players I have found to be less savory characters. SHOCKING?! Sorry, I’m a discriminating fan.

    I do cheer for the team as whole, though — always. That may seem contradictory to some out there, but that’s me. I can’t imagine management ever bringing Myers in. Hey — I was a little surprised we got Soriano because I’d heard that he was a bad clubhouse presence in Tampa long before we signed him. Then again, that one is on the brothers, and not Cashman. Wife-beaters rank pretty low on my scale.

  76. LGY April 26th, 2011 at 10:06 am

    !00 Causes of Arm Weakness for the Diagnostician at heart

    ——

    Is man boobs on there?

  77. RadioKev April 26th, 2011 at 10:07 am

    I disagree, but respect your right to your own opinion

    Montero might have answered the questionsw about his hitting, but he hasn’t proven he is a better catcher than Martin–a former all-star, silver slugger, gold glove winner who can catch 120-130 games a year for the next 4-5 years.

    And even if Montero can hit, as a DH, he is worth a lot less in Cashman’s mind as Cash can buy a decent DH for $5M per year as a FA.

    And as far as Gio goes, people are evaluating him based on his age 24 year, not his progression as a crafty left-handed pitcher with a killer change up and curve. Those types do very well in YS.
    ——

    Montero is a lot of an cheaper option that a FA DH or resigning Martin, by the way. I suppose it’s doubtful Montero will ever match Martin’s skill behind the plate, but his bat could certainly eclipse Martin’s. The whole idea of Montero’s value is that if he’s serviceable behind the plate, you have a major offensive advantage over most teams in baseball.

    And Gio could become an elite pitcher, but my point was that he isn’t yet. Montero was valued at Cliff Lee’s trade market value, until the Mariner’s decided to go with Smoak, which went up in smoke on them.

    Montero could be expendable, I think, but I really don’t think Cashman will pull the trigger unless he finds a great trade. There’s no point in forcing out a great talent like Montero.

  78. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    “The surprise would be an MRI of a ML pitcher not showing some level of tendonitis and 2 or 3 other itis-s too.”

    I have had shoulder tendinitis multiple times over the years and have seen quite a few orthopedists.

    According to them, tendinitis is a catchall diagnosis because it’s often difficult, even with an MRI, to distinguish between a small tear and “mere” inflammation, and not all inflammation is the same. A portion of the criteria for a differential diagnosis is the pain of the patient.

    So it’s not like if you gave a pitcher an MRI they would all be diagnosed with clinically significant tendinitis or worsse.

  79. Wang IS Taiwan April 26th, 2011 at 10:09 am

    Vineyard — absolutely agree on Soriano NOT even attempting to field the ball. His attitude as he stepped back and waited for help was unreal.

    His comments post-game? Wow. I dropped my jaw reading them. Even Girardi said he expected pitchers to field, though did admit that particular pop up would have been difficult. BUT you at least have to try, right?

  80. 108 stitches April 26th, 2011 at 10:10 am

    Greg Golson, Chris Dickerson, or Justin Maxwell need to make cases for themselves at AAA in the event that Gardner continues to be insignificant with a bat in his hands. At the present time he looks lost.

  81. Vineyard Yankee April 26th, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Triple:

    Thats all well and good, it is also in the past. You can’t bring back yesterday. Since that time he has signed Millwood, Silva and Prior.. IMO he will supply the big league pitching staff from within, unless there is a deal too good to pass up (salary dump at the trade deadline)

    He made the commitment to the Farm System long ago and I say he sticks with it.

  82. LGY April 26th, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Like the deal that was too good to pass up for Haren. Oh wait he did pass it up.

    ——

    I really wanted Haren as well, but we don’t know the specifics of what was asked for.

  83. Jerkface April 26th, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Truth be told, in the past I have failed to cheer for some individual players I have found to be less savory characters. SHOCKING?! Sorry, I’m a discriminating fan.

    I do cheer for the team as whole, though — always. That may seem contradictory to some out there, but that’s me. I can’t imagine management ever bringing Myers in. Hey — I was a little surprised we got Soriano because I’d heard that he was a bad clubhouse presence in Tampa long before we signed him. Then again, that one is on the brothers, and not Cashman. Wife-beaters rank pretty low on my scale.

    You are right, Myers doesn’t fit the kind of character mold that Cashman has turned up since 09. It appears the Yankees have made a conscious effort to get nice guys. Though Soriano might be a surly douche, he isn’t a wife beating rapist or something. He may have qualities that just don’t come out on TV.

    Of the Houston Pitchers, I’d see them going after Wandy Rodriguez instead.

  84. West Coast Yankee Fan April 26th, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Gio G. 24-22 with a 4.29 – pass

  85. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Is man boobs on there?

    Is global warming in there?
    ———————————————–

    LMAO!!!

    Could Hughes have Munchausen Syndrome? :(

  86. Triple Short of a Cycle April 26th, 2011 at 10:12 am

    RadioKev,

    Well maybe if he does trade Montero he can find someone better to DH then Nick Johnson :)

    I think when you are talking about replacing a normal DH with someone else it makes sense but ask the Mariners and Red Sox if they would have tarded Edgar Martinez and Ortiz and replaced them with another DH

  87. Wang IS Taiwan April 26th, 2011 at 10:13 am

    108 stitches April 26th, 2011 at 10:10 am

    Greg Golson, Chris Dickerson, or Justin Maxwell need to make cases for themselves at AAA in the event that Gardner continues to be insignificant with a bat in his hands. At the present time he looks lost.
    ~~~~~~~~~

    I’m as frustrated as anyone watching Gardner struggle, but I think he’s got a long leash from management. I could be wrong, but I expect they’ll leave him out there to flail for quite a while longer.

  88. Jerkface April 26th, 2011 at 10:14 am

    I really wanted Haren as well, but we don’t know the specifics of what was asked for.

    Or what happened. At that point the interim GM Jerry Dipoto and ownership were overseeing the trade, and it looked like one that was forced on the club. They ended up taking back Joe Saunders because he was a ‘winner’ with a postseason history, despite being mostly sucky.
    The cost for the Yankees in retrospect might have been too high.

    I would say they should have worked harder on the deal, but really what that means is they should have made that trade no matter what.

    That trade is one that I really want to know the specifics on. I’ve said it before.

  89. West Coast Yankee Fan April 26th, 2011 at 10:15 am

    $500 grand gets you a long leash from the Steinbrenner boys.

  90. Wang IS Taiwan April 26th, 2011 at 10:15 am

    Jerkface,

    I hope you’re right. I’m crossing my fingers that his teammates see a good side we don’t see…

  91. Jerkface April 26th, 2011 at 10:16 am

    Gio G. 24-22 with a 4.29 – pass

    Doesn’t this go against your ‘The future is now’ mentality? Dude has a 2 ERA in 30 innings this year.

  92. Triple Short of a Cycle April 26th, 2011 at 10:16 am

    LGY,

    When did Cash ever say he wanted Haren.

    I am pretty sure the deal revolved around

    Nova and either Robertson or Brackman as the main pieces. Joba might have been discussed at some point as well.

  93. Vineyard Yankee April 26th, 2011 at 10:16 am

    Wang:

    Soriano is not making alot of friends with his dour attitude and being sour to the media. Little things like the ‘no effort’ on the popup are just building a barrier for him that will be tough to hurdle as time goes on and these things continue to mount.

    It is beginning to show exactly what the rap in Tampa was about him not being a very good teammate. Of course his 45 saves last year covered up alot of his BS with the Rays.

  94. Triple Short of a Cycle April 26th, 2011 at 10:16 am

    LGY,

    Woops sorry i thought you said Cash really wanted him

  95. Wang IS Taiwan April 26th, 2011 at 10:17 am

    WCYF: It’s always about the money…is that what you’re saying? :)

    Hey, we could Crawford’s contract on our payroll. (Not that I think Crawford is going to continue to be ineffectual.)

  96. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Mr. Ivan SuperNova needs to show something tonite.

    ;)

  97. Wang IS Taiwan April 26th, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Vineyard — you’re right. I think it’s funny how fans were given this picture of how Mo was taking him under his wing, and how that would do the trick. I think it was JSherman’s article that set a few facts straight about Soriano with the Yankees the day he pitched horrendously and then ditched the media.

    We may think the media is always hyping stuff to sell papers (and that is part of their job), but I have to acknowledge that they see more of the internal goings-on than fans on blogs ever do…

  98. Triple Short of a Cycle April 26th, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Jerkface,

    I have really wanted to know the specifics as well. Usually the details come out. Do you think there is some reason that nothing has really been said about this?

    The names I originally heard were Joba and Nova.

    Pat M said he heard it was Nova and either Robertson or Brackman

  99. Yankee Trader April 26th, 2011 at 10:22 am

    I’ve got to go but this is what Soriano was really thinking when he saw that pop-up! “If I go after that pop-up, I might trip over the mound and really hurt my back, or worse yet run into Jeter or A-Rod and seriously hurt one of them. Than I’d really be persona non grata in new York.”

  100. Wang IS Taiwan April 26th, 2011 at 10:23 am

    YT — nice “out” you’ve given Soriano. ;)

    Signing off. You guys have a good one.

  101. Vineyard Yankee April 26th, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Billy Beane is no dummy, he is not going to give up any of his young pitching prospects ( Gonzales ) that are under his control for a few years unless the deal is lopsided.

    That’s why he signed Balfour, Fuentes and Harden, to round out that staff and build the pen.

  102. Vineyard Yankee April 26th, 2011 at 10:26 am

    MTU April 26th, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Mr. Ivan SuperNova needs to show something tonite.

    ===================

    Is 6 innings and 2 ER’s asking too much ?

  103. Triple Short of a Cycle April 26th, 2011 at 10:27 am

    The only dumb move Beane has mas made recently was trading away Carlos Gonzalez

  104. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 10:27 am

    We’re fixin’ to find out.

    At this point I’d settle for a solid 5.

    ;)

  105. Jerkface April 26th, 2011 at 10:32 am

    The only dumb move Beane has mas made recently was trading away Carlos Gonzalez

    I dunno about this. Carlos Gonzalez has been a completely different hitter away from Coors field. Beane might have recognized that his prospect status would tank playing 81 games in Oakland.

  106. Against All Odds April 26th, 2011 at 10:33 am

    # Triple Short of a Cycle April 26th, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Jerkface,

    I have really wanted to know the specifics as well. Usually the details come out. Do you think there is some reason that nothing has really been said about this?

    The names I originally heard were Joba and Nova.

    Pat M said he heard it was Nova and either Robertson or Brackman

    —————————————–

    The non deal that constantly gets discussed.

  107. blake April 26th, 2011 at 10:34 am

    Cashman was probably going to try and trade for a starter this summer anyway…..with the uncertainty surrounding Hughes now I would guess it would be a near absolute that he will. I just hope he doesn’t feel pressured to give up too much unless the return is big……

  108. Vineyard Yankee April 26th, 2011 at 10:36 am

    He got Matt Holliday in return after CarGo had a disappointing first year in Oakland. Perhaps the Rocky Mountain air has helped CarGo’s success with the Rockies.

  109. blake April 26th, 2011 at 10:36 am

    Beane traded CarGo for another guy that everyone thought was a Coors field product…..

  110. 108 stitches April 26th, 2011 at 10:37 am

    Girardi downplayed the missed infield pop fly but Soriano looked like he didn’t communicate at all.
    Being the good athlete that he is, Mariano would have easily called for and caught the ball but he’s as cool as the other side of the pillow anyway.
    Soriano seems devoid of emotion altogether.

  111. Vineyard Yankee April 26th, 2011 at 10:37 am

    Jerkface April 26th, 2011 at 10:32 am

    Exactly.

  112. blake April 26th, 2011 at 10:38 am

    Holliday had a bad half a season in Oakland then was traded to St. Louis where he has raked ever since…. away from Denver.

  113. Triple Short of a Cycle April 26th, 2011 at 10:39 am

    Jerkface,

    Ok let me back off and change what I meant. He traded him for Holliday knowing that Holliday was gone at the end of the year so in a sense he was basically trading Gonzalez for unknown prospects. Then he trades Holliday at the deadline and prob got less for him at that time then if he would have recieved the 2 comp picks for him

  114. tyanksfan36 April 26th, 2011 at 10:39 am

    austinmac

    dont know how Manny did last night but his final line was 4.2IP, 5 hits, 2R both earned, 2BB, 5K and 2 HBP id say with the walks and HBP then he hasnt gotten his command top notch yet.

  115. blake April 26th, 2011 at 10:39 am

    Pitchers should be taught to go catch the ball unless called off by an infielder…..not stand there and stare off into space while the ball drops 5 feet away.

  116. Vineyard Yankee April 26th, 2011 at 10:39 am

    MTU April 26th, 2011 at 10:27 am

    We’re fixin’ to find out.

    At this point I’d settle for a solid 5.

    ===============

    It is always ‘just’ 5 which is why I asked for 6. Can he make a step in a new direction starting tonite please ?

  117. tyanksfan36 April 26th, 2011 at 10:42 am

    I too am seeking a good game from SuperNova. Currently I only have 6 fantasy points to show from him. I know he can be good. I remember last year he pitched that game against Chicago in Chicago and he was awesome. I hope to hear that again from him(since I cant watch the games)

  118. UnKnown April 26th, 2011 at 10:42 am

    Unfortunately when this pop up misplay happened last night, we had the only guy on the staff on the mound that I am not suprised that he didn’t go for the ball. Any other Yankee pitcher makes that catch or at least attempts to make the catch.

  119. Triple Short of a Cycle April 26th, 2011 at 10:42 am

    Think about where we were at the end of last season.

    Most of us thought we would sign Lee and resign Pettitte. Hughes was going to build on last year as well.

    To go from that to having none of those 3 guys is just staggering when you think about it

  120. Vineyard Yankee April 26th, 2011 at 10:44 am

    I believe that one of those players Beane got in return for Holliday was Brett Wallace (one of my sons played LL Baseball with him for 3 yrs) who is now starting for Houston (1B) and currently batting over .300.

  121. tyanksfan36 April 26th, 2011 at 10:44 am

    This is the 3rd inning from yesterdays Trenton game when Manny gave up his 2 runs.

    From the Trenton Game Recap:

    Justin Christian hit by pitch.
    With Nick Noonan batting, Justin Christian steals (4) 2nd base.
    Nick Noonan pops out to catcher Austin Romine in foul territory.
    Charlie Culberson triples (1) on a fly ball to right fielder Raymond Kruml. Justin Christian scores.
    Joe Koshansky doubles (5) on a fly ball to center fielder Melky Mesa. Charlie Culberson scores.
    Jose Flores singles on a ground ball to shortstop Jose Pirela. Joe Koshansky to 3rd.
    Roger Kieschnick strikes out swinging.
    Juan Perez hit by pitch. Jose Flores to 2nd.
    Johnny Monell flies out to right fielder Raymond Kruml.

  122. Pat M. April 26th, 2011 at 10:44 am

    blake…..Pitchers are trained and taught that during PFP….However the most difficult play is the pop up behind them….Keep in mind, most of these guys are terrible with the glove….It was a fluke play that had the infielders back on the rim of the infield……Seeing eye hit so to speak…….Rivera does make that play though…….

  123. G. Love April 26th, 2011 at 10:46 am

    I’m not going to kill Soriano for not going hard after that pop up. If he did it and dropped it, you’d all be killing him for not yielding to Jeter.

    We didn’t score any runs last night so it’s not like the extra run sealed our doom. If the Yankees can’t scratch out 2-3 runs against Humber and company, it’s on the hitters.

  124. NYYROC April 26th, 2011 at 10:48 am

    All the talk about Sori’s “non-catch” reminds me of that play Joba made (maybe 3 years ago?) when he dove off the mound caught the ball before it hit the ground and did a belly flop that must’ve registered 7.2 on the Richter Scale! The whole team laughed, but what a play!

  125. randy l. April 26th, 2011 at 10:48 am

    “I know I can count on you to say it like it is so I want to ask you for your opinion on the way the Yankees have handled Hughes from ST till now ?

    Do you think they handled the situation correctly ?”

    mtu-

    hahahahhahahahhhahahahhahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahahahahha

    when there are signs of a problem, non action doesn’t always work out so well.

    i just have to laugh because it’s not like the yankees didn’t really need hughes this year.

    simply because the yankees were really counting on hughes ,i would have thought that the lack of velocity would have created major concern right away .

    but i doesn’t work that way for whatever reason with the yankees.

    i really have no idea why a team with so much money reacts so slowly to physical problems with it’s pitchers.

  126. 108 stitches April 26th, 2011 at 10:48 am

    Not hearing anything about Carlos Silva and how close he is to pitching at High A Tampa and working his way up to AAA.
    Millwood is either on the major league roster on May 1st or he can be a free agent.

  127. blake April 26th, 2011 at 10:48 am

    Pat M,

    Yea I understand that…..the problem I have is that he never even looked up into the air. Most big leagues pitchers could make that play I feel pretty sure. It landed right behind the mound……had he gone after it and there been confusion with who called it or something and it dropped then ok….but he didn’t even look up and walked the opposite way.

  128. blake April 26th, 2011 at 10:49 am

    “We didn’t score any runs last night so it’s not like the extra run sealed our doom. If the Yankees can’t scratch out 2-3 runs against Humber and company, it’s on the hitters.”

    No arguement…..it was on the offense.

  129. G. Love April 26th, 2011 at 10:53 am

    blake,

    Soriano finished the pitch in front of the mound. What if he twisted an ankle backpedaling over the mound to field the pop up? Everyone would be ripping him for going after a ball most pitchers don’t touch.

    I have no problem with the play. That’s the infielders ball. I don’t want my pitcher scrambling over the mound looking up in the sky trying to catch a pop fly when you have 2 gold glovers behind him.

  130. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2011 at 10:55 am

    That ball was in no-man’s land. Either a fast SS catches it, or it falls.

  131. UnKnown April 26th, 2011 at 10:56 am

    Last night was the ugliest game the Yankees have played this year. It’s going to happen. Hopefully tonight they come to the park with a little more interest than what was showed last night. No worries

  132. tyanksfan36 April 26th, 2011 at 10:58 am

    108 Stitches

    I heard that Silva threw BP in extended ST this past week. I would think they would send him to Tampa, and sooner rather than later. We are the only team lacking SP, Jairo Heredia is on the DL with elbow inflammation so it would make sense. If I hear anything I will let you know.

  133. blake April 26th, 2011 at 10:59 am

    G. Love,

    Watch the replay…..he could have caught that ball without much of a scramble IMO. Im just sayin…..if Im pitching then Im making sure that ball is caught even if I have to catch it myself …….especially when the infield is back like that. Its just another thing to add to the disinterested look Soriano has had out there….

  134. Erin April 26th, 2011 at 11:02 am

    russellmartin55 Good morning! What a beautiful day :)

  135. blake April 26th, 2011 at 11:02 am

    The dumbest unwritten rule in baseball is that pitchers can’t catch pop ups. After they throw the ball then they are an infielder…..its something they practice and is something that they should be able to do if not called off by an infielder.

  136. LGY April 26th, 2011 at 11:05 am

    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play......k%3D287224

    Soriano could have walked under this ball.

  137. Erin April 26th, 2011 at 11:05 am

    tyanksfan36 April 26th, 2011 at 10:42 am
    I too am seeking a good game from SuperNova. Currently I only have 6 fantasy points to show from him. I know he can be good. I remember last year he pitched that game against Chicago in Chicago and he was awesome. I hope to hear that again from him(since I cant watch the games)

    ********************************
    that reminds me-I went to that Saturday game last year when CC pitched. My friend and I were talking before we got there about the pitching matchups and we both figured we would see a pitchers duel and Sunday would be a slugfest-it ended up being the exact opposite! lol

  138. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2011 at 11:05 am

    Some pitchers aren’t athletes; they just have a skill. I’m not whether or not that’s true of Soriano, but it sure looked that way.

  139. Patrick April 26th, 2011 at 11:07 am

    There’s no excuse for Soriano not going after that ball.

  140. LGY April 26th, 2011 at 11:09 am

    Soriano finishes his delivery, takes a small step forward, points to the air, slowly turns around, and then just stands there watching.

  141. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2011 at 11:09 am

    Soriano doesn’t need an excuse. It’s just not what he does.

  142. blake April 26th, 2011 at 11:11 am

    LGY,

    Exactly…..its really not like he would have had to make some acrobatic diving play to catch that ball.

  143. austinmac April 26th, 2011 at 11:12 am

    Tyanks,

    Thanks for the info on your new BFF.

    I agree we should let the pop up issue go. Pitchers are often told not to go for pop ups. In the end, it didn’t matter since the team didn’t score.

    This is clearly a big start for Nova. He will not make another if he pitches poorly as they will see if Millwood can help. Not a happy thought.

  144. Jerkface April 26th, 2011 at 11:13 am

    Some pitchers aren’t athletes; they just have a skill.

    Dirk Hayhurst makes the same point in his book. Unlike position players, pitchers can get away with not being ‘athletic’ overall. Just need a golden arm. Now how many of those unathletic pitchers make it to the big leagues is another story.

  145. LGY April 26th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    It’s just not what he does.

    ——

    Soriano doesn’t seem to do a lot of things.

    Doesn’t catch pop ups, no pitching in cold weather, no throwing in ST, doesn’t face AL East opponents in ST, can’t pitch in non save situations…

    Am I missing anything?

  146. Pat M. April 26th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    Rich in NJ…..Tin Cup will attest to this, pitchers are for the most part the worst athletes on the field…They can nail a moth sitting around the plate but anything beyond that is not without risk…….My shins have scars from errant throws on the front end of dp’s…..

  147. West Coast Yankee Fan April 26th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    I believe Nova has not made a believer out of Girardi yet. I think he will get another start, maybe two and then we will see someone like Millwood or Silva is they are deemed capable.

  148. Jerkface April 26th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    Pitchers are often told not to go for pop ups. In the end, it didn’t matter since the team didn’t score.

    I felt this way, especially when Leiter basically said the same thing, but then Girardi said they encourage pitchers to go for pop ups. Weird to see Joe throw a guy under the bus, he almost never does.

  149. Patrick April 26th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    Soriano doesn’t need an excuse. It’s just not what he does.

    That is utterly ridiculous and just adds another thing to the list of the reasons why I don’t want Soriano on this team.

  150. LGY April 26th, 2011 at 11:16 am

    How athletic do you have to be to catch a pop up?

    They practice it in tball

  151. Bret The Hitman April 26th, 2011 at 11:20 am

    Billy Beane has no big bat to build his lineup around and he has a bounty of high quality starting pitchers. No bat. Plenty of arms. Oakland can’t win with their offense, not now and not in the future. He has plenty of reasons to trade pitching for offense. The A’s are probably the worst hitting team in baseball or close to it and on top of that they don’t have any great young hitting prospects like Montero. He’s not going to trade with the Yankees to help out the Yankees but he’d be trading for offense to help out the A’s. It’s really very simple.

  152. 108 stitches April 26th, 2011 at 11:22 am

    tyanksfan36 April 26th, 2011 at 10:58 am
    108 Stitches

    I heard that Silva threw BP in extended ST this past week. I would think they would send him to Tampa, and sooner rather than later. We are the only team lacking SP, Jairo Heredia is on the DL with elbow inflammation so it would make sense. If I hear anything I will let you know.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Thanx TY. I’m curious to see if he can be a contributor after a stormy time with the Cubs. With Hughes out and Nova unpredictable, he may be needed at some point.

  153. Bret The Hitman April 26th, 2011 at 11:23 am

    My point is, if you don’t want to see Montero traded to the A’s, don’t claim that the reason he wouldn’t be traded to the A’s is because Beane has no incentive to trade pitching for hitting. That’s a cop out. If you think Gio is not enough, say so but don’t hide behind some false notion that it’s unrealistic for Beane to trade away one of his starting pitchers. It’s quite realistic.

    And the Yankees need pitching more than they need a DH.

    And Martin can be a bridge to Romine who is much closer than Sanchez.

  154. Patrick April 26th, 2011 at 11:23 am

    I wouldn’t trade Montero to the A’s unless I’m getting Brett Anderson++

  155. Bret The Hitman April 26th, 2011 at 11:24 am

    Ok Patrick, now we’re getting somewhere.

  156. 108 stitches April 26th, 2011 at 11:27 am

    LGY April 26th, 2011 at 11:14 am
    It’s just not what he does.

    ——

    Soriano doesn’t seem to do a lot of things.

    Doesn’t catch pop ups, no pitching in cold weather, no throwing in ST, doesn’t face AL East opponents in ST, can’t pitch in non save situations…

    Am I missing anything?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    He seems beside himself. I thought Mariano would be a good influence on him but it looks like he’s in his own world. Maybe he needs some tough talk from Tony Pena. The catchers all listen to Tony.

  157. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2011 at 11:28 am

    “That is utterly ridiculous and just adds another thing to the list of the reasons why I don’t want Soriano on this team.”

    It’s why owners/team presidents need to leave the business of baseball to professionals. I doubt that they consult Cash on business issues.

  158. Tarheel In NYC April 26th, 2011 at 11:29 am

    Erin April 26th, 2011 at 11:02 am

    “russellmartin55 Good morning! What a beautiful day”

    I swear, I love Russell Martin more and more each day :)

  159. Patrick April 26th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    Bret,

    I doubt the A’s would go for that though. Brett Anderson is projected as a top-5 pitcher in the league but he’s more valuable to the A’s at this point. That’s because he has injury problems so if the A’s were to trade him they wouldn’t be getting fair value. He’s really the only guy on the A’s I’d consider giving up Montero for though. TO be honest, I’d rather hang on to Montero and make him the back-up catcher / full time DH.

  160. Patrick April 26th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    It’s why owners/team presidents need to leave the business of baseball to professionals. I doubt that they consult Cash on business issues.

    Preaching to the choir :(

  161. GreenBeret7 April 26th, 2011 at 11:35 am

    No excuse for soriano, but, that had no impact on the game. Also, watch where he is on the pop-up. He’s at the bottom front of the slope, has to go back up and then down the other side. Not sure the ball was hit high enough to do that or to turn around and run around the side of the mound to catch it. The explaination wasn’t good, but, it really wasn’t any more catchable than the gonzalez pop-up to short in the ’01 WS. It was just the misfortune to playing for one sceberio and the ball not being there.

    Blame the offense or credir the pitcher. Hard to blame Granderson, but, that’s the play that cost them. Should he have dove? Not sure, but if he catches it, it’s as outstannding a catch as the one that gardner made a little later.

    Lost in all of the whining is the game that Burnett pitched. He was outstanding. 8 innings and one mistake to Dunn.

  162. West Coast Yankee Fan April 26th, 2011 at 11:36 am

    Cashman didn’t want Soriano due to financial reasons.

  163. GreenBeret7 April 26th, 2011 at 11:37 am

    for one ***scenario*** and

  164. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Randy-

    To use a golf analogy, I shouldn’t tee ‘em up that well for you. Just too easy.

    I laid that one right on the green a few feet from the flag on level ground for ya’.

    ;)

  165. LGY April 26th, 2011 at 11:39 am

    Blame the offense or credir the pitcher. Hard to blame Granderson, but, that’s the play that cost them. Should he have dove? Not sure, but if he catches it, it’s as outstannding a catch as the one that gardner made a little later.

    ——-

    Granderson got a bad read and jump on the ball.

  166. LGY April 26th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    No excuse for soriano, but, that had no impact on the game.

    —–

    Also we don’t know what happens in the 9th in just a 1 run game.

    Maybe Tex doesn’t swing 2-0 if they only need 1 run to tie.

  167. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    GB-

    AJ was really excellent last night. No doubt about that.

  168. Patrick April 26th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Cashman didn’t want Soriano due to financial reasons.

    That’s certainly one reason, but not the only one. Character concerns and injury problems to name a few more…

    And GB7, yeah that pop up didn’t decide the game but it led to 50% of the runs scored in the game last night. If Soriano catches that and gets the last two outs without a run scoring it’s only a 1 run game, maybe the result is different. Obviously this is all speculation and means nothing. The issue is, this play is just more evidence that Soriano doesn’t really care. He’s just not the kind of guy I want on my team.

  169. Erin April 26th, 2011 at 11:43 am

    GreenBeret7 April 26th, 2011 at 11:35 am

    Lost in all of the whining is the game that Burnett pitched. He was outstanding. 8 innings and one mistake to Dunn.

    *******************
    GB, AJ was awesome last night. Sad that was his first April loss as a Yankee. :(

  170. Pat M. April 26th, 2011 at 11:49 am

    GB….Great point about AJ’s performance which has been overlooked by everything that went wrong or didn’t go right …..He was really good last night…..

  171. GreenBeret7 April 26th, 2011 at 11:49 am

    Nobody hit crap last night. The hardest hit ball all night was Jeter’s lineout to right….for both teams. It was the night of the pitchers.

    The crap about Soriano not caring is just that…BS. That 9th inning run didn’t mean anything. Teixeira wasn’t going to drag a bunt or sac bunt, and the only one that was trying to work a walk because he hasn’t hit all year was Gardner.

  172. West Coast Yankee Fan April 26th, 2011 at 11:51 am

    You can’t blame Granderson for being aggressive early in the game. No one could would or should have anticipated being shutout.

  173. Jerkface April 26th, 2011 at 11:52 am

    There would have been more pressure on the white sox in a 1 run game. could be the difference in a ball getting just in on Tex and being left over the plate.

  174. Patrick April 26th, 2011 at 11:53 am

    How is it BS? He watched a catchable ball fall in for a hit.

    Soriano slept through spring training and somehow got himself on the Mo program of not throwing much. Only problem is, come April he says “My velocity won’t be 100% for another month.” Uhh dude, you could have thrown more in spring training and we wouldn’t be having this problem. He also refuses to face AL East opponents in spring training. Oh also he can’t pitch in cold weather.

    Now he shows a lack of effort in the 9th inning of a 1 run game? If that isn’t disinterest I don’t know what is. I just hope he opts out after this season…

  175. pat April 26th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Alex signs on with Steve Loy to handle his marketing management.

    Looking for endorsement deals or to improve his golf handicap?

  176. West Coast Yankee Fan April 26th, 2011 at 11:55 am

    “I just hope he opts out after this season”

    I don’t get the feeling that Soriano likes it here much. Doesn’t come across to me as being happy with his circumstances.

  177. Patrick April 26th, 2011 at 11:56 am

    I don’t get the feeling that Soriano likes it here much. Doesn’t come across to me as being happy with his circumstances.

    Haha well the feeling is mutual. I don’t like him being here

  178. Wave Your Hat April 26th, 2011 at 11:59 am

    Soriano just assumed Jeter had it. Not a heads up play, but no moral deficiency either.

  179. Pat M. April 26th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    WCYF….Hard to get a read on the guy and yeah he appears to be not a very joyous type….But I read somewhere ( maybe Chad ) that’s a funny guy in the clubhouse…….He was teammates with many of the Yanks during the All-Star events……But he does give the angry guy vibe while on the mound which doesn’t exactly make a hitter feel very comfortable……He’ll be fine and prove to be an asset

  180. Erin April 26th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    pat April 26th, 2011 at 11:54 am
    Alex signs on with Steve Loy to handle his marketing management.

    Looking for endorsement deals or to improve his golf handicap?

    ******************
    both?? ;)

  181. GreenBeret7 April 26th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    That’s as good as Burnnett has pitched since the 7 inning duel against Beckett when Rodriguez bombed one into the bullpen in the 15th or 16th inning. When he walked Konero and Dunn to lead of the inning, he could have come unglued, but, he went right at the hitters with 3 pitches and they had no chance. Will he keep in up all year? Who knows? I wouldn’t bet the farm on it, but, I wuldn’t bet againt him, either. Should know by mid-may or June, though. The one that needs to be fixed or demoted though, other than Hughes, is Nova. He’s not the same pitcher in NY as he was in the minors. He was always aggressive and challenged everyone. He’s misplaced that somewhere on the Scranton to NY bus ride.

  182. Rich in NJ April 26th, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    “Cashman didn’t want Soriano due to financial reasons”

    Right, but if a reliever didn’t make $10m a year, both his role and the accompanying expectations would be a lot different.

  183. Erin April 26th, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    New Post: Scranton’s version of Jorge Posada

    :arrow:

  184. blake April 26th, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    The Soriano play wasn’t an isolated incident though which is why it irritaed me…..it was on top of all the other bad vibes and disinterested looks he’s been giving. That ball was catchable and he didn’t even look up to see if anybody was going to make the play…….im sorry but I haven’t played in 8 years and could could have thrown the pitch and got to and caught that ball behind my back 9 of 10 times.

    The best thing about AJ last night was that he really didn’t pitch that well….he was fighting it the whole game and he battled through and had a great outing. That’s what he’s always struggled with…..finding a way on nights when be wasn’t at his best. It was a huge positive from an overall disappointing night.

    On to today…..Nova gets on track tonight.

  185. West Coast Yankee Fan April 26th, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    Pat M. April 26th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    WCYF….Hard to get a read on the guy and yeah he appears to be not a very joyous type….But I read somewhere ( maybe Chad ) that’s a funny guy in the clubhouse…….He was teammates with many of the Yanks during the All-Star events……But he does give the angry guy vibe while on the mound which doesn’t exactly make a hitter feel very comfortable……He’ll be fine and prove to be an asset.

    ****************

    That may be the case. I’m not one of the anti-Soriano fans, I thought it was a good signing given the rotation uncertainty. It just seems like certain personalities seem to fit in better in New York; gregarious, outgoing, engaging players like Granderson and Swisher. I think the opt out and the demeanor do suggest a temporary hired gun; and the slow start hasn’t helped.

    A couple of lights out shutdowns and all will be fine.

  186. MTU April 26th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    GB-

    Agree on Nova. That’s why I said above he needs to show something tonite.

    His stuff and his command are both way off so far.

    Not worried so much about the stuff as I am about the lack of control.

    Doesn’t look anywhere near like the guy we saw at the end of last season.

    Let’s hope he gets it together because he isn’t far from a ride back to Scranton at this point.

    The Yankees have Millwood and Silva waiting in the wings.

    I hope he succeeds because I saw a kid who I liked last season.

    :)

  187. GreenBeret7 April 26th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    Bob Gibson wasn’t the most likeable person either, including to his team mates and neither was DiMaggio. DiMaggio was well respected because of what he could do or who he was…but, he wasn’t well liked. The only reason he had Rizzuto or Martin have dinner with his was to run interference for him or to pick up the tabs. It’s pretty difficult to understand what some of these Latin players really mean when they talk. They are easily misunderstood. They say something that means one thing to them but somes out entirely wrong. I’ll hold judgement for a few more months.

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