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Nova: “You’ve got to see what you’re doing”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on May 29, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Maybe this is part of the learning process, but Ivan Nova has not been a very good pitcher lately. Three starts in a row he seemed to have put it all together, but his past four outings have been erratic, and they’ve been more bad than good.

“I don’t have really good command (last night),” Nova said. “But I’ve got to find another way to stay in the game. I don’t think I did that.”

He’s right. He didn’t.

What I found odd about last night’s start was that Nova kept getting ground balls, which is usually a sure sign that he has his good stuff and his good command. Every out was either on the ground or on strikes, but he kept falling behind in the count, and he kept walking guys.

He was attacking hitters a few weeks ago. Last night he was missing spots in a ballpark that begs for aggressive pitching.

“You have to be able to throw strikes,” Joe Girardi said. “This is a ballpark (where) there aren’t a lot of home runs hit. I think you can be more aggressive in this ballpark and attack the strike zone, and that’s what he has to do. That’s what all pitchers have to do. When you get yourself in bad counts and you give free base runners, that’s when you get in trouble.”

Said Nova: “You’ve got to see what you’re doing. I was getting the ground balls with my fastball, and I should have attacked the hitter with my fastball instead of throwing too many curveballs. But that’s part of the game. That’s something you’ve got to learn from.”

It’s a learning process for every young pitcher, but lately that learning curve has not been friendly.

“This is a time where he’s going to learn,” Robinson Cano said. “Those are the kinds of mistakes that are going to make him a better pitcher, so we’ve got to be there for him.”

Associated Press photo

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224 Responses to “Nova: “You’ve got to see what you’re doing””

  1. Bret The Hitman May 29th, 2011 at 9:25 am

    3 bats the Yankees can cut ties with after 2011 are Brett Gardner, Nick Swisher and Jorge Posada.

    Hitters the Yankees should look at:

    Justin Upton
    Grady Sizemore
    David DeJesus
    Andre Ethier
    Denard Span
    Jose Reyes

  2. Yankee Trader May 29th, 2011 at 9:27 am

    Day game today, facing a lefty, CC pitching with an average support of 7 runs/game. I’d say the odds are pretty good winning the last game of this series.

  3. MTU May 29th, 2011 at 9:37 am

    YT-

    They could sure use a win.

    CC needs to go deep to give the pen a rest.

    They need to score early and often.

  4. UnKnown May 29th, 2011 at 9:51 am

    For some reason I absolutely love how Guillen trashed his offense in the sun times. And that was after a 8 run output for the day. Still love the honestly.

  5. MTU May 29th, 2011 at 9:54 am

    Just thinking out loud.

    I’m wondering who goes to the pen if Hughes makes it back for the 2nd half ? (I’m an optimist).

    No way I remove Colon or Garcia the way they have been throwing the ball.

    That leaves Nova.

    Does Nova wind up in the pen assuming Phil returns to form ?

    Or do they put Phil in the Pen and let him build his confidence like they did with him once before.

  6. UnKnown May 29th, 2011 at 10:01 am

    Hurts that we didn’t win more games in these first 50 when the Starters pitched very well in a particular game. Left a lot of wins out there because they can’t get a hit with risp.

  7. AldotheApache May 29th, 2011 at 10:02 am

    MTU, good question.

    I’d say, let Nova go to the pen as long man.

  8. MTU May 29th, 2011 at 10:07 am

    Aldo-

    You’d have to think Phil has the priority for the rotation but he has been injured. They may want to go slow with him.

    The other thing is, what if Hughes makes it back before Soriano ?

    Maybe he takes Soriano’s place as Mo’s setup man for now.

    He was lights out in that role one season.

    Nova could also be sent to AAA but I don’t really see much value in that.

    I hope the Yanks have the luxury of having to make such a decision.

  9. G. Love May 29th, 2011 at 10:07 am

    Yeah, don’t worry. The Yankees will put up 12 today and everyone will try to forget they just coughed up 2 to Seattle because the weekend stats will look yummy!

    This team is on autopilot and it’s heading for a moutainside.

    Something needs to be done. They made mistakes this off season out of loyalty and due to bad contracts. At this point, loyalty and money have to be ignored and finding the right mix/fit is a priority.

    Waiting for Godot err, I mean the Yankees, to wake up and decide it’s time to win because it’s warm enough and late in the season enough the we have the right comforters on our beds finally is going to be folly this season because I don’t see Swisher, Jeter or Posada playing to the back of their baseball cards this year. Arod looks all world for a day or two and then slips back into strikeout machine mode. At least he’s hitting .280 though.

    While the guys in the clubhouse need to stick together and should be commended for that attitude, the guys in the front office should be making changes. When 2 of your most important offensive positions in DH and RF are complete utter voids night in night out? The front office owes it to themselves to find replacements. Chris Dickerson hasn’t scared Swisher into hitting. I think a real RF’er might help this team immensely and then Swisher can platoon DH with Jorge since he can only hit LHP and Jorge can only sort of hit RHP.

    This team needs help. I’m past the point now of expecting Jeter to become a real force in this lineup. We’re watching the decline and the mediocrity we’re seeing from him now is what it is. 2009 was a brilliant year for him and I think it’s going to be the last brilliant year from him we’re going to get see sadly.

    His lineup demotion and replacing Jorge and Swisher, 1/3 of the lineup, needs to start now.

  10. NYY fan in NH May 29th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    Too many players playing subpar baseball. Too many holes in the lineup. This is a subpar team right now and with leaving RISP constantly, this team needs an overhaul.. Get rid of Swisher, Posada and get some youth and energy back into this team.

  11. G. Love May 29th, 2011 at 10:10 am

    MTU,

    If Phil has the stuff, I think Nova is going to AAA. I don’t think they will bring Phil back to pitch out of the pen since that will turn an already wasted year into a really wasted year for his starting pitching prospects.

    You cannot justify moving Colon or Garcia out of the rotation right now. They are, for the most part, getting the job done almost every time.

  12. MTU May 29th, 2011 at 10:10 am

    G. Love-

    Your frustration is both evident as well as understandable.

  13. Gary May 29th, 2011 at 10:13 am

    Bret The Hitman May 29th, 2011 at 9:25 am
    3 bats the Yankees can cut ties with after 2011 are Brett Gardner, Nick Swisher and Jorge Posada.

    Hitters the Yankees should look at:

    Justin Upton
    Grady Sizemore
    David DeJesus
    Andre Ethier
    Denard Span
    Jose Reyes

    _______________________________________________________________________

    Well Posada is gone for sure, so no need to look. Swisher baring some miracle is gone also. He is where Bobby was a few years back although Bobby was a better hitter and a better fielder. They are not going to move Gardner.

  14. MTU May 29th, 2011 at 10:13 am

    Losing Chavez was a really bad deal.

    He was a definite contributor.

    Hope he returns soon.

  15. West Coast Yankee Fan May 29th, 2011 at 10:15 am

    I wish Girardi had some more Guillen in him. He is boring, lifeless and obviously does not have a clue how to motivate ballplayers or deal effectively with adversity.

  16. West Coast Yankee Fan May 29th, 2011 at 10:18 am

    That we have no good help forthcoming from the minors has to be considered as an indictment of our system and management. I’m referring to now, not projected success stories in the future.

  17. Gary May 29th, 2011 at 10:21 am

    West Coast Yankee Fan May 29th, 2011 at 10:15 am
    I wish Girardi had some more Guillen in him. He is boring, lifeless and obviously does not have a clue how to motivate ballplayers or deal effectively with adversity.

    ______________________________________________________________________

    Girardi cares more for the players. That is a good thing and sometimes a bad thing although I think in almost all situations that it is good. Torre was the same way. You don’t know what goes on inside the clubhouse, Joe might be alot tougher. Managing people is all about motivation, turning off people never helps.

  18. Triple Short of a Cycle May 29th, 2011 at 10:22 am

    Guillen is a fool. He makes Sweet Lou seem sane

  19. G. Love May 29th, 2011 at 10:22 am

    MTU,

    I was pulling for Chavez at DH from jump street when the ball was leaping off his bat. If he can come back and still swing like he did earlier, giving him the starting DH job is a good start to fixing this. That said, who knows if he can stay healthy enough to keep it for more than a week.

    This team is frustrating and it’s tough to like they way they are playing right now.

    Listen, I haven’t been the biggest Swisher for years now. I’ve sat in 1b/RF near him and what some people see as fun antics, I see as ridiculata with him. The guy is like a Labrador. He rarely looks focused to me up close. He’s so amped it’s almost a parody of itself. Like something you’d see being spoofed on Family Guy.

    He had a great statistical season last year, but he’s playing just like he did in the post season this year and it’s horrible to watch a guy with that kind of potential talent mentally talk himself out of it. I can only imagine the chatter inside his head. It’s like a bunch of screaming people in a sports bar blasting the ESPN Baseball Tonight theme.

    As much as I want to get upset at Nova, I can’t. The hitters have to do better than this. I thought Nova and AJ both pitched well enough to win, but the offense looks like the same struggling bunch they’ve been for a month now. The Mets and O’s made them look like they snapped out of it, but I think it’s clear that the Mets and O’s aren’t exactly the Big Red Machine and the 27 Yankees.

    I hope while the mantra for Girardi is patience (and frankly it has to be to keep that clubhouse calm), the mantra of Cashman is turn the page and find solutions.

    I don’t even care about what Boston has been doing the past few weeks. I care that this team looks like it has a glass jaw most nights and the offense is a mess.

  20. jacksquat May 29th, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Chad, any word on if Cano was running on his own or not when he was “caught stealing”?

  21. MTU May 29th, 2011 at 10:24 am

    Not a fan of dressing down your players or your team in public.

    That should be reserved for closed doors.

    The last thing a player needs is to be kicked when their down and publicly humiliated.

    Especially when it is not for lack of effort.

    How does anyone really know what has been said to what players in private ?

    What kind of a leader seeks to embarass his players w/o good call ?

    Guillen is a buffoon IMO.

  22. blake May 29th, 2011 at 10:25 am

    G love,

    The flip side (and optimistic view) is that the Yanks have played poorly for good parts of the season, are underperforming offensively, and still are only a game back in the loss column.

  23. joeman May 29th, 2011 at 10:26 am

    Bret The Hitman May 29th, 2011 at 9:25 am

    3 bats the Yankees can cut ties with after 2011 are Brett Gardner, Nick Swisher and Jorge Posada.
    —————————————
    Po & Swish are a given…would like to package Gardner with ? to bring back a SP between 25 & 28 years old…..

  24. joeman May 29th, 2011 at 10:27 am

    # Yankee Trader May 29th, 2011 at 9:27 am

    Day game today, facing a lefty, CC pitching with an average support of 7 runs/game. I’d say the odds are pretty good winning the last game of this series.
    ————————————————-
    don’t bet any $$$$$ on it

  25. joeman May 29th, 2011 at 10:28 am

    the RS are going to be a run away train…..they could win this division by 10 games

  26. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 10:28 am

    I’m not worried, bu they need a bat and need to reconfigure their lineup.

    I am also extremely underwhelmed by Girardi’s managing.

    If he managed Friday’s game like last night’s game they would have greatly increased their chances of winning.

    The guy is an automaton who shows little imagination.

  27. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 10:29 am

    “the RS are going to be a run away train…..they could win this division by 10 games”

    Or…not.

  28. blake May 29th, 2011 at 10:29 am

    If you notice the Yankees offense has been much better earlier in games (first time through the order). This is generally when pithers challenge with fastballs and try to settle in. The Yanks aren’t making adjustments as the pitchers do…..

  29. MTU May 29th, 2011 at 10:30 am

    G. Love-

    You’re a smart guy and I respect your opinion.

    You have to know that the Yankee brass as well as the players can’t be happy with the way they are playing.

    If you think you’re frustrated imagine how frustrated they must be ?

    For better or worse, this is the evaluation time.

    Moves are forthcoming of that I have no doubt. It’s just a question of the timing. The Yankees do not stand pat.

    I hope Guillen becomes even more frustrated so that the WS become sellers.

    There are a number of those bums I’d like to have.

    ;)

  30. West Coast Yankee Fan May 29th, 2011 at 10:32 am

    I don’t think Girardi should emulate Guillen but one time I would like to see him get angry and pound the desk and say their collective play is unacceptable. A manager in any endeavor can indicate the status quo can not continue without throwing players/employers under the proverbial bus. Or how about Girardi says loudly, “I take full responsibility for our underachieving, the buck stops here and I’m going to right this ship.”

  31. joeman May 29th, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Nova is a long relief man at best

    last 4 games 18 innings pitched
    given up 30 hits
    given up 12 runs

  32. joeman May 29th, 2011 at 10:34 am

    # Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 10:29 am

    “the RS are going to be a run away train…..they could win this division by 10 games”

    Or…not.
    —————————-
    be real it could happen

  33. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 10:35 am

    The other offensive problem is that there are often two to four automatic outs. That’s unacceptable on an ongoing basis.

  34. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 10:35 am

    I’m not worried about Nova. While I’m not sure how great he will be, he’s still a kid and can’t be judged like a veteran pitcher. It’s unfortunate that he’s in the position of being the #4 starter in a not-so-great rotation instead of being the #5 in a very good rotation…………similar to Hughes last year.

    Still, when you score 3 off of Felix, you have to win – you can’t blow 2 games to the Mariners. One bit of good news was Granderson – he just continues to be huge, which is no suprise to me.

    Not much to say about Mo, but I think he already has 3 blown saves this season and now a loss.

  35. G. Love May 29th, 2011 at 10:35 am

    blake,

    I’m having a hard time seeing that flip side. I think this expectation that Jeter will be Jeter, Posada will be Posada, Swisher will put up last years numbers, etc. is all foolish to believe in at this point.

    We went from having one of the most talented circular lineups in baseball to a lineup that is easy to pitch around if you have a mediocre breaking ball and a hard fastball.

    They made a mistake caving in and giving Jeter 3 more years with a 4th year option at that kind of money. It’s going to stop them from replacing him at SS.

    It’s more and more looking like passing on Matt Holliday is turning out to be a big mistake. I know he’s had some leg injuries recently, but this lineup is missing the premium bat it could have acquired for money and a draft pick. The worst thing Colorado ever did to that guy was trade him to Oakland which scared a lot of AL GM’s into thinking he wasn’t who he really was.

    Now, we’d be lucky if we landed someone with that kind of talent.

    Hunter Pence and David Dejesus shouldn’t be worth the cost in talent they will need to acquire them.

    If we’re going to have give up good prospects, then I hope he shoots for the moon and tries to get one of the Dodger OF’ers or Upton in AZ.

    All the focus on pitching prospects and catchers in the minor leagues needs to go out and get us a position player to help this offense from the age related declines of Posada and Jeter (and maybe Arod a little) and the mental decline of Swisher.

  36. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 10:36 am

    “be real it could happen”

    Another thing that could happen is that the Yankees could win by 10 games.

    Think what you want, I don’t share you view, and I’m as realistic as death.

  37. joeman May 29th, 2011 at 10:38 am

    as we all know Mo is still very good but Mo isn’t Mo anymore..

    MO

  38. G. Love May 29th, 2011 at 10:38 am

    MTU,

    I agree with you about the White Sox. I wouldn’t mind raiding their cupboard for an OF’er and a starting pitcher.

  39. joeman May 29th, 2011 at 10:39 am

    # Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 10:36 am

    “be real it could happen”

    Another thing that could happen is that the Yankees could win by 10 games.

    Think what you want, I don’t share you view, and I’m as realistic as death.
    ——————————————–
    Yep

  40. blake May 29th, 2011 at 10:39 am

    Nova is a rookie starter…..those expecting him to be great every turn weren’t being realistic. This is what developing starters from within looks like……expect some of the same from Manny and Dellin when it’s their time

  41. MTU May 29th, 2011 at 10:39 am

    A lot of people complain that the Yankees don’t develop young pitchers.

    A big part of that is having the patience to ride out the inevitable ups and downs of a young Pitcher’s learning curve at the ML level.

    If the Yankees won’t do that it is doubtful they will ever develop many quality young arms.

    It’s all part of the game. Most young guys aren’t Lincecum, or Felix.

    They don’t come ready like pop tarts.

    In this baseball environment it’s going to be harder and harder to buy or trade for young quality arms.

    It almost forces developing your own. That requires patience.

    Win now or not that’s a reality too.

  42. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 10:42 am

    Nova is what he is… a mediocre 5th starter. If that. I don’t believe Cashman thinks Nova is a long term solution nor do I believe if Hughes was pitching well would Nova even be in the rotation or on the ML club. More than likely optioned back down to AAA to iron out these kinks. But Nova and the rotation – nor the BP are the problem. It’s the offense. They are just downright a mess right now and can’t seem to put together any string of hits consistently. Girardi’s explanation that HR’s are hits are lame at best. It’s still the hitter trying to hit the cover off the ball instead of trying to put it where someone isn’t. At best, the offense is inconsistent, at worst, just horrible. The team who leads the majors in HR by a wide margin is in second place and losing to a team that is one of the worst teams in MLB in scoring runs. Yes they faced two of the best pitchers in baseball, but it’s not like they were shut down. They had their opportunities but it seemed like they just played themselves out of those situations. This has been going on for over a month and riding the HR wave has petered out. I’m not all that thrilled about any of the minor league options either – Montero still looks like he has a lot to learn… Maxwell leads in the minors in strikeouts… and Vazquez is an all or nothing kind of guy (HR or SO). While that ratio is decent in the minors, it’s bound to go down facing ML pitching. So, I have to believe the reason Cashman or Girardi isn’t doing anything is because nothing they have would be an improvement over what they have in the show. It is what it is folks. These are professionals and they need to figure out what’s ailing them. Hopefully, they turn it around soon.

  43. G. Love May 29th, 2011 at 10:44 am

    That’s why I can’t get mad at Nova. He left with the lead last night. The team had more opportunities to put up runs. They made Jamey Wright look like he was a world beater. They should have lit him up.

    What I’m seeing is the team looks hungover. When Felix leaves the game they should be destroying the middle of the Seattle pen, but instead act like they are still reliving their Felix at bats.

    They’re making mediocre 5-6-7th inning pitchers look way too good lately. If the starter doesn’t come out and wet himself in the opening innings, the team slips into a funk with the exception of Granderson who is doing everything he can to ignite this offense night in night out.

  44. matt1766 May 29th, 2011 at 10:44 am

    Justin Upton—would look at
    Grady Sizemore–his knees are shot
    David DeJesus- yes
    Andre Ethier- maybe
    Denard Span-no very streaky hitter
    Jose Reyes- this is a no brainer but the yankees would never do because of Jeter

  45. West Coast Yankee Fan May 29th, 2011 at 10:45 am

    Look, you cannot expect to prosper losing two out of three to Kansas City and Seattle. ARod, Cano, Granderson and Tex should be enough to carry this team when others are floundering. But they are not. Last night proved that once again you cant thrive by means of the long ball alone. Cano and Tex go yard and we lose. You have to be able to rally against the other teams pen – that used to be our gameplan. Be patient at the start if the game, run up their starters pitch count and tear into their middle relief pitchers. That has gone by the wayside. Average pens are shutting us down. We swing for the fences and we don’t do what it takes to build runs late. We don’t steal or bunt well, we get picked off, we don’t seem to get the big hit with RISP at the right time. We go off occasionally on a batting practice starter and our stats appear better than our performance warrants.

    Cashman needs to take action of some kind before it’s too late. Hoping things get better is not a strategy.

  46. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 10:47 am

    “Nova is what he is… a mediocre 5th starter”

    BS. Some of the best starters in MLB history struggled early on in their career. So think what you want, but to pretend that you know what Nova will be is false.

  47. joeman May 29th, 2011 at 10:48 am

    # G. Love May 29th, 2011 at 10:38 am

    MTU,

    I agree with you about the White Sox. I wouldn’t mind raiding their cupboard for an OF’er and a starting pitcher.
    ———————————————————-
    they would part with Buehrle & his 14 mil (not as good as he use to be)
    Rios & his 12 mil( having a very bad year)
    Konerko & his 12 mil
    Danks is young
    Quentin don’t think they would deal him

  48. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 10:48 am

    Doesn’t matter – he is what he is at the moment. And the point of the post was the offense was petering out.

  49. matt1766 May 29th, 2011 at 10:49 am

    Posada needs to be out of the lineup and maybe off the team. His play and attitude is so negative. Swisher needs to go to the bench. The whole team is off their game and it is in their heads so that is the Mangers fault. There seems to be no urgency on this team. The Mariners out played the Yankees. Most teams are doing that lately.

  50. joeman May 29th, 2011 at 10:49 am

    around here when Nova wins he’s a #3 & when he loses he’s a # 4 or # 5

  51. G. Love May 29th, 2011 at 10:49 am

    Sorry. My bad. Nova didn’t leave with the lead night. My bad. It was tied up when he left.

  52. G. Love May 29th, 2011 at 10:50 am

    Gotta stop typing on my phone while I’m outside trying to smoke ribs. Too many ‘my bad’s”. I sound like Swisher.

  53. blake May 29th, 2011 at 10:50 am

    G love,

    I don’t think Jeters contract will stop them from getting a SS if they feel that’s appropriate…..good ones of those are few and far between. Reyes is the only one that may be available and if they think Its time to move Jeter this winter then I think theyll consider signing him……and yes it was a mistake to not sign Matt Holliday…..he was a perfect fit. I’ve said that for 2 years.

  54. joeman May 29th, 2011 at 10:53 am

    # Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 10:47 am

    “Nova is what he is… a mediocre 5th starter”

    BS. Some of the best starters in MLB history struggled early on in their career. So think what you want, but to pretend that you know what Nova will be is false.
    ———————————
    right now Nova should be in AAA..he’s here because they have nobody else

  55. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 10:54 am

    The issues with this team isn’t the rotation – it’s the offense. They can’t find any consistency. Swish and Posada shorten the lineup. Posada is an issue because of his history with the team. Just cutting him after everything he’s done for the franchise would be cold. He deserves to walk away with his head held high. The deal is is that the same hard personality that made him so good is also making him a problem when he’s not good. The Yanks can’t just “Griffey Jr.” him. Swish – i dunno what the deal is. Mental maybe? Maybe he’ll hit his stride after the ASB. The minor options aren’t much better and no one is making any trades? Or asking too much I bet…?

  56. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 10:54 am

    “Doesn’t matter – he is what he is at the moment”

    If the standard is at the moment, which is far different and is not what you said, then Posada, Swisher, and Jeter are marginal ML, at best, and Freddy Garcia is one of the best starters in MLB.

    So sample size matters, a lot.

  57. joeman May 29th, 2011 at 10:55 am

    Nova is a long relief man at best or back in AAA

    last 4 games 18 innings pitched
    given up 30 hits
    given up 12 runs

  58. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 10:55 am

    Nova as bad as he was last night still gave this team a chance. Noesi, Ayala, and Logan did their jobs. Had the Yanks had the lead in the 9th, I bet Mo shuts the door.

  59. Joe from Long Island May 29th, 2011 at 10:57 am

    Nova will be a very capable ML starter. Despite his recent troubles, he’s shown he has the stuff to win. I really think that there are more than a few teams that would love to have him, and wouldn’t be surprised, when it becomes deal-making time, to see him as part of a package for a name player.

    Not saying he will be dealt, just that he’s a young pitcher who’s showing more than enough to show he belongs.

  60. brownies May 29th, 2011 at 10:57 am

    The offense / lineup screams for an infusion of youthful young talent. It ain’t around the corner unfortunately

  61. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 10:59 am

    -IF- Nova is dealt as part of a package, it will only be if Hughes makes a return. I am not sure they’d risk Noesi taking over with half a season left to play.

  62. Joe from Long Island May 29th, 2011 at 10:59 am

    Smoking ribs?

    Can I come over? I’ll bring some good beer…..

  63. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 11:02 am

    “As the Yanks’ 16th best prospect before this season, Nova had the same basic scouting report and was dubbed a number four starter in the big leagues if his command and secondary pitches improved, which is still his ultimate ceiling.”

    http://riveraveblues.com/2010/.....day-34225/

  64. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 11:02 am

    In his last three starts, AJ Burnett has given up 11 runs in 17 IP

    Small sample size rocks!

  65. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 11:03 am

    I don’t think Nova deserves to be removed from the rotation – he earned a spot in ST and should keep it until he implodes. I remember when Phil was doing pretty well in 2009 and people wanted to keep him in the rotation and let Wang go to the pen. Maybe Phil will have to bide his time until a rotation spot opens up – but not the pen, let him stay in AAA to work on his other pitches. If he doesn’t, then he’ll be the pitcher we saw in the 2nd half last year. The Yankees should take this time to make him a better pitcher. In any case, Colon doesn’t deserve to lose a spot nor does Garcia, who’s just fine as a #5. No one should lose a spot.

  66. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 11:04 am

    No one knows with any meaningful certainty who will be a 3rd rather than a 4th starter and it’s folly to pretend otherwise.

  67. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 11:04 am

    Putting Phil in the pen would be a horrendous mistake – either he’s a starter or he’s not. It would set him back tremendously, I think

  68. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 11:06 am

    I doubt they would. He’d do his usual stint in the minor as rehab assignments and go back to the majors as a starter when he’s ready. I’m sure they’d use those starts to gauge his fastball and command as well (which is something they’d need to know) – before coming back into the rotation.

  69. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 11:07 am

    I’m not even thinking about Hughes now. Based on his recent quotes, he was pitching with more pain than either he told the Yankees, or the Yankees told the press, which I can understand from their strategic points of view, but it’s why I want to see Hughes pitch effectively in the mL to believe that he can help this year.

  70. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 11:08 am

    So now if Noesi ever gets a chance to start, are people expecting him to be Halladay? Silly. We don’t know how good Nova will be, but you either let him pitch and take his lumps like all young pitchers or you give up on the notion of developing any young starters.

    I heard on the radio yesterday that their BA are just so bad – remarkable. Jeter is around .259, Swisher at a pathetic .206, Jorge is probably done or close to at somewhere in the 100′s, Cano is only in the .280′s, same with Alex. Granderson is fine at .274 because of the other things he brings, but Tex is also in the 250′s. What happened to this guy? He used to be a .300 type of hitter. I like him, but IMO, he’s overrated.

  71. mykyl1 May 29th, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Jorge Posada should not ever pick up a bat and step to the plate as a New York Yankee. He is a shell of once was. The team has a real problem on their hands. The solution is not that hard. Say good-bye

  72. 108 stitches May 29th, 2011 at 11:09 am

    The big difference between this team and the team of 2009 is the come from behind and walkoff wins plus being able to push runs across with 2 outs. The newness of being Yankees with Sabathia, Teixeira, and Swisher were difference makers in spite of Girardi managing much the same as he does today.
    Posada and Jeter have clearly declined and they were team leaders 2 years ago. Not the case now. Cashman needs to start pushing some buttons and is probably going to take action as soon as the draft is finished.

  73. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 11:09 am

    Rich, I’m not either. I didn’t hear his recent quotes as I was on vacation, but if he did say that (and before I went away, he did indicate he was pitching through some soreness), then that’s just ridiculous. In any case, you can’t count on Phil coming back at all – at least I’m not. If he comes back, fine, but let’s see how he holds up physically first.

  74. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 11:10 am

    BA’s around the league are down. Pitching has been the talk of the year, so it’s not just the Yankees. Altho, that said, I do wish they’d at least play some small ball better.

  75. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 11:10 am

    The Yankees have three starters with an OPS+ in the 70s. That has nothing to do with offense being down.

  76. West Coast Yankee Fan May 29th, 2011 at 11:11 am

    Betsy, Tex is not the problem he’s been very good. He has 15 home runs and 35 RBI’s and a .374 OBP and .920 OPS. You can’t look only at BA, the triple slash tells one lots more.

  77. joeman May 29th, 2011 at 11:12 am

    Yankees & White Sox ought to talk….they could use a catcher & a OFer plus a young SP

  78. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 11:13 am

    in 09, Jeter was batting in the 300′s, so was Arod, Swisher, Tex, and everyone else practically and Posada was productive (ie, not in the 100′s). The walkoff’s were great, but they were more of a product of the hitters being able to hit period with RISP, not just late.

  79. austinmac May 29th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    I read in the Chicago Tribune that the White Sox have a purported June 1 date to make decisions on the direction of the team. That is also the date for the Yankees to do the same IMO.

  80. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    WC, I didn’t say Tex was the problem, but he has to hit more than .259. The Yankees gave him that contract based on his ability to hit for power and average. He’s hardly the problem given the numerous problems in the lineup – it was more just a comment on him overall.

    I felt going into the season that the Yankees had a lot of ? in their lineup, but I felt Jeter would be good (wrong), Po would be ok (dead wrong- he looks cooked), Cano would be great (rather off-the-mark, unfortunately) and Swisher would be his usual self. It’s depressing how 2 of the Yankees’ younger players have regressed this year………..

  81. Ghostwriter May 29th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 11:03 am

    I don’t think Nova deserves to be removed from the rotation – he earned a spot in ST and should keep it until he implodes. I remember when Phil was doing pretty well in 2009 and people wanted to keep him in the rotation and let Wang go to the pen. Maybe Phil will have to bide his time until a rotation spot opens up – but not the pen, let him stay in AAA to work on his other pitches. If he doesn’t, then he’ll be the pitcher we saw in the 2nd half last year. The Yankees should take this time to make him a better pitcher. In any case, Colon doesn’t deserve to lose a spot nor does Garcia, who’s just fine as a #5. No one should lose a spot.
    ===============================================

    Nice post. The pitching has been the strength of this team thus far, so I don’t see a need for any hasty moves, at least not in the starting rotation. When Phil comes back, he can go to the ‘pen, and try to get ready for when he gets an opportunity to help the club. And Nova should be allowed to continue to develop. These ups and downs are sometimes a necessary part of a pitcher’s development, and the times that Nova has had it together are promising enough to keep running him out there.

    Still, these last couple of losses are very frustrating, particularly since the Yanks had a lead in both games: If the offense had managed to tack on an extra run, here or there, or if the pitchers had managed to hold the lead, then things would be looking a lot different right now. The point is that these were team losses, and it’s hard to single out anybody for the blame. However, these are the kinds of games that the Yanks are going to have to learn how to win if they want to advance in the postseason.

  82. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 11:16 am

    For those of you who want to read about Hughes:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....ughes.html

  83. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 11:18 am

    “The headache stuff is available,” Cashman said yesterday before last night’s 4-3 loss to the pitching-rich, hitting-poor Mariners at Safeco Field. “That will always be available, 24/7, 12 months a year. The quality stuff is not available.”

    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....z1Nks3MwM4

    wonder who Cash was talking about…? :)

  84. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 11:18 am

    Teixeira:

    2009: .273 .378 .585 .963

    2011: .259 .374 .546 .920

    That’s pretty close.

  85. 108 stitches May 29th, 2011 at 11:19 am

    re: Jeter

    Maybe when the No. 3,000 hit arrives it will eliminate (some) pressure but at the same time it’s noticeable enough to see he’s lost some bat speed. He’s clearly on the downside of his career. He’s not a kid anymore.

  86. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 11:19 am

    On this date^

  87. West Coast Yankee Fan May 29th, 2011 at 11:19 am

    Betsy you said “what happened to this guy”. Tex is not even in the conversation as to why this team is underachieving, and he was not brought here for BA.

    Tex is hitting .300 with RISP and 2 outs and his OBP is .563

  88. blake May 29th, 2011 at 11:19 am

    Nova has been pretty much what you expect from a rookie starter…hes been really good at times and has shown his inexperience at times. If fans can’t handle that then they need to hope for more signings of 30 something starting pitchers. Nova is far from the biggest issue going on.

  89. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 11:23 am

    Ghost, why do you think Phil should be in the pen? I couldn’t think of a worse place for him.

  90. joeman May 29th, 2011 at 11:23 am

    # austinmac May 29th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    I read in the Chicago Tribune that the White Sox have a purported June 1 date to make decisions on the direction of the team. That is also the date for the Yankees to do the same IMO.
    —————————————–

  91. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 11:24 am

    WC, it’s pretty obvious what I meant. He used to be a .300 hitter and now he’s not close to being that.

  92. Ghostwriter May 29th, 2011 at 11:27 am

    Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    WC, I didn’t say Tex was the problem, but he has to hit more than .259. The Yankees gave him that contract based on his ability to hit for power and average. He’s hardly the problem given the numerous problems in the lineup – it was more just a comment on him overall.

    ======================================

    You’re right of course, good luck in trying to get him to change. He has a .920 OPS, and I’m sure he doesn’t think that there is a problem. However, form the left side, he’s batting .242, with an OPS of .899. In other words, he has Giambi disease–he’s trying to pull everything over the short porch in left field. The inconsistency is maddening.

    Generally speaking, I would put Tex in the clean-up role and bat ARod third, Because ARod has been a little more consistent, while Tex has had more success driving in baserunners. And in either event, I would consider hitting Tex in the fifth or sixth slot against righties.

  93. joeman May 29th, 2011 at 11:28 am

    would like to have Konerko here to DH full time

    Mark Buehrle & Jackson are FA’s…would ask about Danks

  94. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 11:29 am

    Some stats for you folks -

    Team rankings with RISP:
    1st Indians (.313)
    3rd O’s (.288)
    15th Yankees (.243)
    16th Red Sox (.241)

    RISP and 2 outs:
    1st Cards (.293)
    2nd O’s (.277)
    tied 3rd Red Sox (.263)
    19th Yankees (.220)

    BasesLoaded
    1st Indians (.571)
    5th Yankees (.354)
    13th Red Sox (.289)

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/st.....eason_2011

  95. blake May 29th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    If swisher doesn’t pick it up and Reyes makes it to free agency and stays healthy…..then I think they could try and move Swisher this winter, approach Jeter about a move to RF, and then consider signing Reyes to a deal to be the SS until they can develop one to replace him…..

  96. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    RISP for two months are likely to be stable over the course of the season.

  97. blake May 29th, 2011 at 11:31 am

    And I’m sure Cashman stays in touch with Towers about Upton……

  98. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 11:32 am

    if Swisher makes it to this winter, they just don’t pick up his option ($10.5 mil) and let him walk.

  99. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 11:33 am

    I would be shocked if Jeter changes position, especially if he doesn’t hit more. If Jeter is one thing, it’s extremely smart, and he knows that if he isn’t going to hit more, his legacy would be harmed by putting up those numbers in RF.

  100. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 11:33 am

    It’s when there are 2 outs with RISP that the Yankees seem to falter lately, but hopefully, when the hitters (Swish, etc) pick up their game, that corrects itself.

  101. West Coast Yankee Fan May 29th, 2011 at 11:34 am

    FYI – I am talking about Tex now in the context of the Yankees poor play lately. His last ten games he has hit 6 home runs and has 13 RBI’s while hitting .280 and he has raised his BA 11 points since May 22.

  102. Ghostwriter May 29th, 2011 at 11:34 am

    Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 11:23 am

    Ghost, why do you think Phil should be in the pen? I couldn’t think of a worse place for him.
    ===============================

    For now, yes. I think that it would give him some time t work his way back into the swing of things, and he has worked his way into the rotation from the ‘pen before. If I thought that he was the kind of kid that would get discouraged and quit on himself back in the ‘pen, then I might be inclined to agree with you. I just don’t see an obvious candidate in the rotation for a demotion, with the possible exception of Nova, and and as long as Nova is working hard to improve himself, I’d rather give him the chance to work through his struggles.

    Besides, I imagine that Hughes won’t have to wait long to get his chance in the rotation.

  103. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 11:34 am

    They can’t wait more than another couple of weeks for Swisher. Nunez should be tried in RF starting now.

  104. randy l. May 29th, 2011 at 11:35 am

    “What I’m seeing is the team looks hungover.”

    what i see is a team that is competing equally with teams who have a payroll of one half to to one fourth of what the yankees have for payroll.

    i have no doubt that this high priced veteran team will kick in and start playing better. this is their pattern over the last decade. the problem that i see is there seems to be a complacency is letting this happen on it’s own.

    i do not see any sense of urgency, but rather the same old ” be patient and let the players eventually work it out”.

    this worked last year with granderson as it took a long while for him to get it going. the problem is that there is really very much a whole team of underachievers. yes tex is coming close to where he should be. granderson is obviously doing great, but everyone else is underachieving.

    i think its starting to get down to the right jockey for the horse. girardi doesn’t seem to be able to light a fire under the veterans. he seems better with younger players in this regard. maybe cashman can help him in this by making the yankees a younger team by bringing up some minor league players and pitchers a little ahead of schedule.

    thsi would fit girardi’s managing style better. he really has become a slug as a manager with the veterans. if cashman is going to keep the veteran team intact, the yankees need to get a manager who has some fire to him.

    girardi and his staff is just plain to low key to fire this team up. bob newhart could be added to the present coaching staff and fit right in. no one would even notice.

    this may seem extreme , but i think girardi needs to have his patience with this team rewarded fairly quickly because it’s getting later very early this year.

    the yankees need a very good june.

  105. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 11:36 am

    Blake, Jeter in RF would not be a good idea. He has no power for a SS – for a RF, he’d be fairly awful in that area. I don’t think he has more than another year in him – I can’t believe he’s still at a mediocre .259 at this point. I’m always positive about him, but he is old – I can’t see him improving. I think we need to keep him at SS and find a new RF. I don’t know who would want Swisher coming off of this year. The Yankees would end up getting a deal like Kenny Williams did -meaning it would suck.

  106. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Yeah, I’m beginning to think that Girardi is the wrong manager for this team, but he isn’t going anywhere.

  107. blake May 29th, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Rich,

    Maybe…..but the scenario I laid out is kinda dependent on the Yanks making an organizational decision to talk to Jeter about moving. I don’t think he needs to….he’s still fine there IMO….just a thought its probably not likely.

  108. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 11:39 am

    I would agree – Girardi and veterans doesn’t seem like a strong combo. On this side of the fence, it certainly looks like Posada won the temper tantrum war with Girardi.

  109. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 11:40 am

    WC, I’m just talking about him as a player overall in comparison to what I expected. He’s not a problem at this point, not in comparison to some of the Yankees’ other issues – that’s for sure.

    Ghost, not that he would quit, but I think being in the pen hurt him more than helped him. As it stands, he sort of has the repertoire and mentality of a reliever- I think putting him in the pen would set him back as a starter. If the Yankees intend for him to be a long-term member of this rotation, they need to work on him as a starter. If it means he misses the whole year, so be it. That’s why I mentioned he should stay in AAA. Being in the pen will only make him more FB and cutter happy – it won’t teach him how to be a starter.

  110. West Coast Yankee Fan May 29th, 2011 at 11:40 am

    The Yankees have not won more than 3 games in a row all year and have been shutout 4 times. That indicates an under-performing team to me.

  111. blake May 29th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Betsy,

    I don’t think positions matter as much as getting the best 9 hitters on the field that you can. If they decided that Reyes was a better hitter than Swisher….and that doing that would upgrade the defense both at SS and in RF…..then I could see them doing it. Problem is that there aren’t a lot of outfield options available or scheduled to be available. A trade is possible but hard to predict……I don’t think Jeter is done yet.

  112. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    The problem is that some of the players aren’t underachieving – they are old. Those who aren’t old, like Swish and Cano, have their own issues. I have no idea why Cano has been mediocre at the plate and in the field, but I don’t see there’s much the Yankees can do about that and as to Swish, this is who he is.

  113. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 11:42 am

    blake

    As I said, his defense is good.

    I guess he will have a tough decision to make about whether or not to retire if his offense doesn’t pick up, because that will hurt his legacy too.

  114. Ghostwriter May 29th, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 11:34 am

    They can’t wait more than another couple of weeks for Swisher. Nunez should be tried in RF starting now.
    ===========================

    I expect them to try a platoon with Swisher in RF in the near future, and a picking up a RF at the trade deadline–it’s the obvious bang-for-the-buck opportunity to improve the team. I’m still not sure about Nunez, but he couldn’t do any worse.

  115. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 11:43 am

    Blake, I can’t imagine Reyes on this team at all………..the Mets won’t trade him here, that’s for sure. Jeter may not be Posada-done, but at best now he’s probably a .275 type hitter and that’s at best. I’d have no clue if he could handle RF anyway – who’s to say he could cover the ground or even make the throws needed to?

  116. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 11:43 am

    The MLBTR scuttlebutt is that Astros’ RF Hunter Pence is available.

  117. blake May 29th, 2011 at 11:44 am

    Rich,

    I think his legacy is already set….goingn through a normal age progression is nothing to be ashamed of IMO…..I think folks have forgotten what natural aging of a player looks like.

  118. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 11:44 am

    I agree that 2 months is more than enough time for Swisher – put Dickerson there for awhile.

  119. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 11:44 am

    Cant’ believe this team is only 4 games above .500… in late May.

  120. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 11:46 am

    Posada isn’t aging… he’s done. But the Yankees won’t just Griffey Jr him. I wish he would take a frank look in the mirror and retire… but he won’t. He’s stubborn and vain. So… dunno…

  121. J. Alfred Prufrock May 29th, 2011 at 11:46 am

    jacksquat May 29th, 2011 at 10:23 am
    Chad, any word on if Cano was running on his own or not when he was “caught stealing”?
    ///

    There is no way he was running on his own. The question is, why are you sending a guy who isn’t a base stealer in that situation? Girardi, with his hit & runs this season at curious moments, has exacerbated the offensive woes by running the Yanks out of innings.

    The good news on Cano is he looks like he’s more on the ball. That’ll go a long way to curing what ails the offense.

    BTW the complaints about Jeter after putting up a 2 for 4 with BB against Felix last night are laughable.

    One of our current problems is we have just no slug at all from the COF. It’s a blessing that Granderson has got his home run stroke down early, otherwise we’d really have a Mickey Mouse outfield.

    The long view though is we’re sniffing first (& have played one less game than Boston has IIRC) even with our woes, so the epic condemnations seem a tad melodramatic & insanely premature. All’s relative & I don’t see some uber team out there poised to send us to our doom.

    My MIL is staying with us. Great lady, in her 60s, loves the Yankees, though she digs the long ball & turbo offense. We took her to Wednesday’s day game (it’s best to avoid great “pitching matchups” when she’s involved, they bore her) & were please with the Adruw two-shot day & the Tex homer. But NOW, she’s watching last night’s game on replay. She can’t stay up late and she innocently is taunting me with frequent updates of what’s happening in that already doomed affair. Since Mo’s going to cough up the winning run, (always heart gauging when it happens), her caught-up-in-a-possible-win excitement is doubly depressing. I don’t want to spoil the ending for her, but….now watch, she’ll say “But why didn’t you TELL me they were going to lose…..?” After greeting my sleepwalking self this morning with “DON’T tell me what happens, I’m going to watch the replay…”

    Sigh.

  122. joeman May 29th, 2011 at 11:46 am

    # sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 11:39 am

    I would agree – Girardi and veterans doesn’t seem like a strong combo. On this side of the fence, it certainly looks like Posada won the temper tantrum war with Girardi.
    ——————————————–
    bring in sweet Lou

  123. Ghostwriter May 29th, 2011 at 11:47 am

    sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 11:44 am

    Cant’ believe this team is only 4 games above .500… in late May.
    =======================

    They’re 1.5 games out of first in their division, and leading in the wild card chase. Moreover, they are playing in the toughest division in baseball, with 4 potential 90-game winners in their division. Yes, they have been struggling, but they’re holding their own.

  124. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 11:48 am

    blake

    I am really not trying to diss him, but going from a 118 career OPS+ to something in he 70s or 80s is awfully steep.

    For example, even in Mantle’s last season, his OPS+ was 142. That’s off his 178 career mark, but still really good.

    So I don’t think this is typical natural aging.

  125. charlestonchew May 29th, 2011 at 11:48 am

    WCYF:
    “I wish Girardi had some more Guillen in him. He is boring, lifeless and obviously does not have a clue how to motivate ballplayers or deal effectively with adversity.”

    I agree. I was in favor of Tony Pena for manager and didn’t think Mattingly or Girardi had the fire needed to kick this team in the a**. I would still prefer Pena over Girardi today and one has to think that he’s next in line to manage if it gets to that point.

  126. joeman May 29th, 2011 at 11:49 am

    # sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 11:43 am

    The MLBTR scuttlebutt is that Astros’ RF Hunter Pence is available.
    ——————————————–
    steady as they come & 28 years old

  127. charlestonchew May 29th, 2011 at 11:51 am

    I am kind of surprised at how little faith we all have in Jeter turning things around – and that includes myself. Hasn’t he surprised us over and over again, season after season? Even last year when he looked done, he was on fire at the end of the season. He’s got some left in the tank and he’s too big of a competitor to let himself flail away into retirement.

    A little faith could go a long way. He might turn it around, who knows. I’m not too optimistic about it, but shouldn’t I be?

  128. blake May 29th, 2011 at 11:52 am

    Betsy,

    I wouldn’t trade for Reyes…..I’m talking about him as a FA. I’m just thinking outloud

  129. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 11:53 am

    “I am kind of surprised at how little faith we all have in Jeter turning things around – and that includes myself. Hasn’t he surprised us over and over again, season after season? ”

    His OPS+ was 91 last season. So what does turning it around equate to?

    Faith is irrelevant. Unlike Posada and Swisher, he’s sticking around.

    But that also means that you have to get more from the DH and RF positions.

  130. joeman May 29th, 2011 at 11:53 am

    # Ghostwriter May 29th, 2011 at 11:47 am

    sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 11:44 am

    Cant’ believe this team is only 4 games above .500… in late May.
    =======================

    They’re 1.5 games out of first in their division, and leading in the wild card chase. Moreover, they are playing in the toughest division in baseball, with 4 potential 90-game winners in their division. Yes, they have been struggling, but they’re holding their own.
    —————————————
    losing series to Sea & KC isn’t good

  131. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Blake, got it. The Yankees have a lot of work to do – yet again – in reconstructing their lineup.

  132. West Coast Yankee Fan May 29th, 2011 at 11:55 am

    “But they’re holding their own.”

    That’s what Kansas City would say. Not the New York Yankees.

  133. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 11:56 am

    The best thing the Yankees could do is to add a big bat. If he produces, it can take the pressure off of everyone and jump start the team. So even if it’s Vazquez, do it now.

  134. Ghostwriter May 29th, 2011 at 11:57 am

    ich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 11:48 am

    blake

    I am really not trying to diss him, but going from a 118 career OPS+ to something in he 70s or 80s is awfully steep.

    For example, even in Mantle’s last season, his OPS+ was 142. That’s off his 178 career mark, but still really good.

    So I don’t think this is typical natural aging.

    ====================================

    His decline has been awfully steep, considering that we are only 2 years removed from one of his best seasons, which is why I wonder if there isn’t something else going on here. Still, Jeter’s legacy is pretty much set, regardless of what he does from here on out–certainly nothing in the statistical department would damage his legacy. At worst, people would just say he hung around too long after he was done. Nevertheless, I am still holding out hope that he’ll trun it around this year: I just find this huge dropoff of his to be a little hard to fathom.

  135. randy l. May 29th, 2011 at 11:57 am

    ” Yes, they have been struggling, but they’re holding their own.”

    this is not a team that is supposed to struggle.

    struggling is unacceptable as far as i’m concerned.

    i have little patience with low standards.

  136. G. Love May 29th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Girardi can’t call out his players publicly. He’ll lose that locker room and lose his job in the process. They are paying too many ego’s too much money for the manager to get in their faces. Is he making it easy on them by covering them posturing they are “banged up” when he benches them? Yes.

    But he can’t turn into Billy Martin. It won’t work. This is who he is.

    Whoever said above that he would be better with younger players was right. There is too much tip toeing around the guys with the big contracts.

    Jeter to RF would be abysmal. We’re supposed to get offense out of our RF, not “look there’s the icon” out of RF. The Yankees shouldn’t have gone 3 years with him. They got bullied into the deal and giving him more money than he’s worth and they’re going to pay for this for the next 3 years. He’s not a superstar anymore. He’s getting older, declining and will probably be a .260 hitter with no power until he walks away from the game. His 3000th and all that hoopla can’t come soon enough since I think once that is in the rear view the team will be less “respectful”.

    I wouldn’t trade Swisher now unless you got something struggling with potential in return. I’d rather go get a RF and put Swisher on the bench and let him get into the DH mix if he rebounds. If he doesn’t, he can get amped up on the bench and be a Leyritz type until he’s gone.

    Joe from LI – As for my ribs, you’re more than welcome to cross the sound into Rye/Greenwich and come over. We have traditional BBQ pork spare ribs smoking right now, in addition to a whole chicken and some espresso dry rubbed beef ribs which should be ridiculous! Leave the beer at home though. Bring vodka and rum! Rum punch is the drink of the day here!

  137. Joe from Long Island May 29th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    I think the whole thing about having a fiery manager is overdone. It’s not a HS team, after all. These guys are grown men, who have been on a number of teams over the years. At the right time and place, maybe once a year you get some mileage out of it, or with a team that has a lot of kids.

    Reading some of the history about the Billy Martin teams, and his rants, the players would just roll their eyes. Those teams won because of the qulaity if players.

    Martin once said that on any one team, a third of the players respected you, a third hated you, and a third wasn’t sure. The secret to success as a manager was in keeping the third who hated you from the third that wasnt sure.

  138. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 11:59 am

    Ghostwriter

    OK, maybe, what do you think is going on?

    I disagree about legacy, though. One year, won’t affect it, three or four of being a different hitter certainly could.

  139. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    I wouldn’t care if Girardi was asleep all the time if he didn’t manage so tight and didn’t manage the pen so poorly. Throw formulas out the window and manage to the exigencies of each game.

  140. RadioKev May 29th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    Man, the nonsense on here this morning is pretty amazing.

    I read a comment that said “get rid of swisher” “we need more youth” – Swisher is 30.

    Nova being a mediocre 5th starter? There aren’t a whole lot of “great” fifth starters out there. The quality of your fifth starter is dependent on the quality of the rotation as a whole. Nova is young, and believe it or not, most young pitchers have to develop. Very rarely do you see guys like Pineda, Hernandez, Lincecum, Verlander, come in and dominate right away. By the sounds of it, we don’t have anything like that in our system right now, so you’ve just got to show patience.

    Joe Girardi not managing correctly? I don’t know. I don’t think these players are a bunch of slackers. I think they’re under achieving, but by the sounds of it there is no lack of work ethic with this team. Outside of the line up, I’m not sure what you want him to do. I think they need to maximize Granderson’s potential and move him into the 3 hole while the man is still hot, but other than that you can’t change this lineup a whole lot more right now.

    How long did the 2009 team underperform?

  141. Joe from Long Island May 29th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    G. Love- my wife just informed me that her ex was coming over (with his latest squeeze) to give her a birthday present.

    It’s going to be a day for the hard stuff…..

  142. Ghostwriter May 29th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 11:59 am

    Ghostwriter

    OK, maybe, what do you think is going on?

    ==========================

    I don’t know. Last year, I thought that it was an injury that he was hiding. I just don’t understand this year at all. I would have expected that we would have seen a period of gradual decline, followed by a steep dropoff. Maybe he had been in a period of decline, and I missed it. Maybe 2009 was his last hurrah. And it is definitely possible that the dropoff is for real.

  143. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    At this point, I am not sure the negatives outweigh the positives of bringing up Vazquez. What does it hurt other than stinging Posada in the tush again. Would he pout again? Does it matter – the real question is can Girardi deal with it…? I hope so…

  144. sunny615 May 29th, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    Off to swim with the fam – nice chatting with you all- see yas!

  145. randy l. May 29th, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    “Whoever said above that he would be better with younger players was right. There is too much tip toeing around the guys with the big contracts.”

    someone else may have also said it, but i said giradi is different with younger players. girardi has not been the guy i thought the yankees were getting originally. he’s very different with veteran players. he’s so conservative he’s just plain boring as all the binder jokes illustrate.

    i’m not all up in arms with how the yankees are playing, but i am bored with them.. they really do look like they are just going though the motions.

    i have absolutely no problem with any veteran being sat when they are struggling and a younger player replacing them for the at bat, the day, or the week. the vets have their money and they have been given that respect.

    playing time you have to earn with what you are doing now.

  146. Ghostwriter May 29th, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    Joe from Long Island May 29th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    I think the whole thing about having a fiery manager is overdone.

    =================================

    I think that you’re absolutely right. I can’t imagine what problems can be solved by having a grown man throw a temper tantrum. Having a fit is a sign of weakness, not strength.

    To the extent that the problem is the manager of the club, I think it lies in the fact that Girardi’s strategic choices are often incorrect. And he has an apparent inability to think outside the box. If Girardi’s problem is an inability to manage veterans, then why are Colon and Garcia flourishing? If Girardi’s strength is managing young players, then why is Cano–one of the most talented young players in the Majors–floundering?

  147. J. Alfred Prufrock May 29th, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    is decline has been awfully steep, considering that we are only 2 years removed from one of his best seasons, which is why I wonder if there isn’t something else going on here. Still, Jeter’s legacy is pretty much set, regardless of what he does from here on out–certainly nothing in the statistical department would damage his legacy. At worst, people would just say he hung around too long after he was done. Nevertheless, I am still holding out hope that he’ll trun it around this year: I just find this huge dropoff of his to be a little hard to fathom.
    ////

    I think the “something else” is a problem with his hip. He picks up the right leg & then drops it to move. He’s always had the cowboy gait to a degree, but that right leg is pronounced in looking immobile. I have no proof of course, just basing it on how he looks. Now, lingering injuries are part of the age dynamic, so I am not sure what that means going forward.

    The thing that is encouraging is he’s driving the ball more. That shot at Felix is more of the same. Do I think Jeter is through? No, in fact I think the “faith” less are even more steeped in a kind of romantic investment in drastic decline than the pollyanas (where ever they are?).

  148. J. Alfred Prufrock May 29th, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    Ghostwriter May 29th, 2011 at 12:15 pm
    Joe from Long Island May 29th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    I think the whole thing about having a fiery manager is overdone.

    =================================

    I think that you’re absolutely right. I can’t imagine what problems can be solved by having a grown man throw a temper tantrum. Having a fit is a sign of weakness, not strength.

    ////

    This this this

  149. RadioKev May 29th, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    I will say, at this rate, I think a Montero call up is around the corner. I’m still for the Yankees sticking with Posada and Cervelli for the time being, because there’s no point running them out of town if they can contribute. With that said, decision time is coming.

  150. West Coast Yankee Fan May 29th, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    Typical – using words like “temper tantrum” and “throwing a fit” which has nothing to do with what was said. Showing passion and an unwillingness to accept mediocrity is the mark of a leader. A good manager, in baseball or any other industry does not excessively coddle or become too friendly with his employees and demands performance. Joe Girardi I believe has a hard time doing that. His childish names for players a minor but salient example of that.

  151. LGY May 29th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    I am all for patience with young starters and have talked about the ups and downs many times.

    However, at this point it doesn’t look like Nova is ready to be a major league starter at this level. He needs more time in AAA to work on his issues. Not to mention his velocity is down from last season which is not helping.

    His swinging strike rate is 3.9%. He is the only pitcher in MLB to be below 4%. I’m not talking about moving him to the BP. You can’t pitch at this level missing that few bats.

    He needs more time in AAA.

  152. J. Alfred Prufrock May 29th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    Girardi erred in pulling Posada for Jones last night when he did. Posada obviously is not going to be allowed to pull himself out of the hole RH, & that’s really stupid. The only way it would be tolerable is if they were bringing up Montero & committed to getting him entrenched in the lineup to help THIS YEAR. Otherwise, it’s just counter productive. Jorge isn’t going to start hitting with any regularity if they keep yanking him out.

  153. Gary May 29th, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    Interesting all off season the talk was about SP. Now it’s almost all about the lack of hitting. I thought the Yanks needed to pickup a corner OF and possiblly a DH during the winter, we let them all go elsewhere. Oh well.

  154. randy l. May 29th, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    joe form long island-

    billy martin was from a different era.

    there are no more billy martins.

    but i think there is a present day manager somewhere who could get more out of a high priced complacent group of veterans than girardi is getting. maybe no one guy can. maybe the idea is to change managers because you can’t change players. even if you don’t get a batter guy, you create a climate of change. there’s something t be said for that.

    if veteran players, managers, and coaches losing their jobs is taken off the table, exactly what is it that creates a sense of urgency to the yankees?

    …on another note, if your wife’s ex brings a birthday cake too, that’s over the top. if he does, i’d pull a sparky lyle if i were you :)

  155. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    “No, in fact I think the “faith” less are even more steeped in a kind of romantic investment in drastic decline than the pollyanas (where ever they are?).”

    Who has time for drama? Not me. I go by what I see on the field, nothing else.

  156. Gary May 29th, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock May 29th, 2011 at 12:25 pm
    Girardi erred in pulling Posada for Jones last night when he did. Posada obviously is not going to be allowed to pull himself out of the hole RH, & that’s really stupid. The only way it would be tolerable is if they were bringing up Montero & committed to getting him entrenched in the lineup to help THIS YEAR. Otherwise, it’s just counter productive. Jorge isn’t going to start hitting with any regularity if they keep yanking him out.

    ________________________________________________________________________

    Jorge has been 0 for clutch situations. Greater probability he doesn’t deliver than he does. Girardi plays the stats all the time. It was the right move.

  157. RadioKev May 29th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the bullpen has majorly improved since Girardi came on with the team. That could just be a matter of the talent in our system, but he’s also done a really good job giving guys work and giving them chances to improve/gain confidence and get rolling again.

    You can criticize Girardi all you want for coddling his players, but it seems in the bullpen to be paying major dividends.

  158. randy l. May 29th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    “If Girardi’s strength is managing young players, then why is Cano–one of the most talented young players in the Majors–floundering?”

    cano is a young player?

    montero is a young player. nova is a young player. cervelli is a young player. hughes is a young player.

    i think cano is a young veteran at this point.

  159. LGY May 29th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    Jorge isn’t going to start hitting with any regularity if they keep yanking him out.

    ——-

    Jorge hasn’t hit with any regularity since May 2010.

  160. AZ88 May 29th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    Donnie Dodger would have been a better manager choice for the mere fact that he could handle the Core 4 – aka the leadership council – much better.

    Think Jorge would have acted like that if Donnie did the same thing?

    Now, I’m a Girardi guy, but he needs to go to a young team where he can manage the way he wants. Not be a mere extension of ownership and/or tip-toe around star players, compromising winning/production in the process, like he has to here. In-game management is always going to be arbitrary for any manager, so that is irrelevant.

    He probably would be a better manager for us in 5 years (though he probably won’t last that long), when some of these players now can grow with him, and the big egos start to go out the door and some of the younger players come up.

  161. Ghostwriter May 29th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    LGY May 29th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    I am all for patience with young starters and have talked about the ups and downs many times.

    However, at this point it doesn’t look like Nova is ready to be a major league starter at this level. He needs more time in AAA to work on his issues. Not to mention his velocity is down from last season which is not helping.

    His swinging strike rate is 3.9%. He is the only pitcher in MLB to be below 4%. I’m not talking about moving him to the BP. You can’t pitch at this level missing that few bats.

    He needs more time in AAA.
    =============================

    What does swinging strike rate mean/imply? What do you think that more time in Triple-A will accomplish? How does pitching to worse hitters improve him as a pitcher?

  162. AZ88 May 29th, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Cano’s problem on offense can be traced to his reverting back to bad habits. That is Long’s job to sort out, not Girardi.

  163. Frankg May 29th, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    May be it’s time to give up on Nova and to package him and a few other prospects and trade them for someone like Javier Vasquez, Kevin Brown or Randy Johnson. Or perhaps they could trade him for someone like Austin Kearns or Lance Berkman to give the lineup more punch? Put the front office on this. Cashman has an excellent record of helping other teams at little cost.

  164. 108 stitches May 29th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Fault the front office hierarchy for the contracts to players extending past their prime years and into their declining years. If they learn by present mistakes they’ll think twice about ever again allowing sentimentality to rule in business decisions.
    A steady stream of fans watching a winning team far outweighs what fans will come to the Stadium to see a player reach a milestone. After it’s reached it fades very quickly but losing games keeps fans away until they’re convinced the team is on the right track.
    Without naming names, there’s some regrettable contracts on this team. One gets to exit after this season.

  165. J. Alfred Prufrock May 29th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
    “No, in fact I think the “faith” less are even more steeped in a kind of romantic investment in drastic decline than the pollyanas (where ever they are?).”

    Who has time for drama? Not me. I go by what I see on the field, nothing else.
    ///
    I’m not talking about you, even if you introduced the word “faith” this morning.

  166. LGY May 29th, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    What does swinging strike rate mean/imply? What do you think that more time in Triple-A will accomplish? How does pitching to worse hitters improve him as a pitcher?

    ——————

    Swinging strike rate means the percentage of pitches thrown that a batter swings and misses at.

    With Nova having the lowest swinging strike rate in MLB it means that basically he is the most hittable pitcher in baseball. He is not fooling anyone. More than any other pitcher hitters are able to make contact with his pitches.

    Last year Nova took the next step as a prospect when his fastball velo increased and the command of the fastball at the same time. I think he needs to work on pounding the zone with his fastball and work on his curveball.

  167. AZ88 May 29th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    You can live with ups and downs with elite young talent like Betances, Banuelos, or even Hughes/Joba because you know their upside.

    Nova was always a mediocre prospect. He has a 1-1 K/BB ratio, LGY pointed out how staggeringly low his swinging strike %s are. He doesn’t go deep into games. His secondary pitches are spotty, as is his control. It’s not like this guy had top of the rotation ceiling.

    The leash will be longer for a Banuelos than it will for a Nova. Just the way it is.

    Again, what is so special about Nova? He has a mid 90s FB. So do about 500 other young pitchers in the world. Maybe he will outperform the expectations for him, but we won’t find out here. Have to hit the ground running if you are not an elite prospect.

  168. Ghostwriter May 29th, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    randy l. May 29th, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    joe form long island-

    billy martin was from a different era.

    there are no more billy martins.

    but i think there is a present day manager somewhere who could get more out of a high priced complacent group of veterans than girardi is getting. maybe no one guy can. maybe the idea is to change managers because you can’t change players. even if you don’t get a batter guy, you create a climate of change. there’s something t be said for that.

    if veteran players, managers, and coaches losing their jobs is taken off the table, exactly what is it that creates a sense of urgency to the yankees?

    =======================================

    Torre seemed to get plenty out of guys by talking with them, moving them around in the lineup, giving them a clear indication of what was required of them, and putting them in the right places to succeed. This ain’t rocket science. I really don’t think that the problem with this team is lack of effort–the effort is there, even though it seems like they are sleep-walking. I think that the main problem has a lot to do with their approach at the plate–there are too many guys trying to launch balls into the parking lot, making the offense inconsistent as hell.

  169. Triple Short of a Cycle May 29th, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    How can you blame Girardi for an awful pitching performance and lack of hitting?

  170. ZMAN May 29th, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Nova looks like he will be a slightly better version of Carlos Silva with worse control but a higher K/9.

  171. Ghostwriter May 29th, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    LGY May 29th, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    What does swinging strike rate mean/imply? What do you think that more time in Triple-A will accomplish? How does pitching to worse hitters improve him as a pitcher?

    ——————

    Swinging strike rate means the percentage of pitches thrown that a batter swings and misses at.

    With Nova having the lowest swinging strike rate in MLB it means that basically he is the most hittable pitcher in baseball. He is not fooling anyone. More than any other pitcher hitters are able to make contact with his pitches.

    Last year Nova took the next step as a prospect when his fastball velo increased and the command of the fastball at the same time. I think he needs to work on pounding the zone with his fastball and work on his curveball.
    ========================

    I understand what a swing strike means; I was asking about the implications of it. Why is he hittable? Is his fastball flat? Does he leave the ball out over the plate? Is he putting himself into bad counts? Why aren’t hitters swinging and missing more often?

    I really don’t see how sending him down to Triple-A will help him. I don’t think that there very many guys at all down there that can handle Nova’s curve ball. I think that he needs a chance to figure it ot at the ML level, or we could package him up in a deal for a right fielder.

  172. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    I’m not talking about you, even if you introduced the word “faith” this morning.

    __

    Not me:

    charlestonchew

    http://yankees.lhblogs.com/201.....nt-1838889

  173. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    I don’t see why Nova’s swing and miss % is a big deal. He’s got a mid 4 ERA – if teams were just killing him, he’d have a 5 or 6 ERA. He’s acquitted himself just fine – it’s not his fault he’s in a rotation so shaky that he’s the #4.

  174. RhapsodyInBlue May 29th, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    Jorge last week .091 and that’s against RHers only.

    The big pinch hit his season highlight to date.

  175. MTU May 29th, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    The fact is that nobody here knows what goes on behind closed doors in Yankeeland.

    Perhaps Girardi and/or Cashman have dressed people down in private when appropriate ?

    FWIS I’m glad they try not to air their dirty laundry in public.

    That’s not the way to go IMO.

  176. J. Alfred Prufrock May 29th, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    Gary May 29th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
    J. Alfred Prufrock May 29th, 2011 at 12:25 pm
    Girardi erred in pulling Posada for Jones last night when he did. Posada obviously is not going to be allowed to pull himself out of the hole RH, & that’s really stupid. The only way it would be tolerable is if they were bringing up Montero & committed to getting him entrenched in the lineup to help THIS YEAR. Otherwise, it’s just counter productive. Jorge isn’t going to start hitting with any regularity if they keep yanking him out.

    ________________________________________________________________________

    Jorge has been 0 for clutch situations. Greater probability he doesn’t deliver than he does. Girardi plays the stats all the time. It was the right move.
    ///

    It wasn’t “clutch” that he doubled in the ninth against Toronto to set up that walkoff win?

    Your “greater probability” is based on what? I’m more convinced by Posada’s track record as a guy who gets on base & can hit & has slugging than by some murky “greater probability”. Those are just words. Jones is fine to start in the OF versus left-handed pitching. He’s not someone I would have PH for Posada in later innings.

    This middling ground with Posada just won’t work. They have to pay him the 13M so they half-heartedly throw him in the lineup only to pull him out like he’s some career platoon player. They need to make a statement with him in there or just replace him. The wishy washy crap isn’t going to help him get to where he needs to be.

  177. Triple Short of a Cycle May 29th, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    Betsy,

    The less of K’s a pitcher has the more balls put into play which the pitcher has no control over.

  178. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    Triple, but getting outs is what counts. Nova has been fine – I don’t agree that just because he doesn’t get strikeouts he’s not ready to be a starter. He’s acquitted himself as well as a young starter can – but then I never thought he was going to be great. He’s been ok – he’s been fine. He’s not gettin murdered.

  179. J. Alfred Prufrock May 29th, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    AZ88 May 29th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
    You can live with ups and downs with elite young talent like Betances, Banuelos, or even Hughes/Joba because you know their upside.
    ///

    Philosophically, I am in tune with you but the “you” you reference isn’t the Yankees, is it? If it is, there’s a guy with “upside” and a 4-pitch repertoire who has been dubbed by the team the “7th inning” arm who looks remarkably like Joba Chamberlain.

    So much for living with the ups & downs a elite young talent :D.

  180. randy l. May 29th, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    the yankees need to do something to give people a reason to watch.

    this team is b-o-r-i-n-g.

  181. Triple Short of a Cycle May 29th, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    Betsy,

    Of course you can be a productive pitcher without being a strikeout guy but it makes it harder. With a K you can’t get on with an error or score a run on a sac fly or move a runner over.

  182. Rich in NJ May 29th, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    I’m bored now. Later.

  183. LGY May 29th, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    Since June 1st 2010, Jorge has a .209/.345/.387 slash line.

  184. yankeefeminista May 29th, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    Jeter has a .283BABIP, so I expect improvement from him. In his last 10 games, he is around last year’s stats @ .271/.340 and we can live with that. SS is only a problem b/c we are not getting the usual production from elsewhere, especially from DH and the COF positions. wOBA and SLG from the COF’s is especially pitiful; from LF Gardner is 11th in wOBA (.316) and 12th in SLG. (.390)/103 OPS+. From RF, Swisher is dead last in both wOBA and SLG, 74 OPS+. Posada is not producing, and the middle of the order has been erratic, although Cano is starting to pick it up again, as is Tex. However, Jeter is the least of our problems right now unless he continues to not hit vs. righties. (Recent improvement there and more LD’s. Hit Felix hard last night with 2 H.) If Jeter doesn’t hit righties, then you move him down, but continue to bat him first vs. lefties.

    Luckily, we get some pop from CF to compensate for anemic corners, but we need more production from elsewhere. Obviously Alex is the key ingredient in all of this. He has a 107 OPS+ in May with only 5XBH. And has a 72 OPS+ vs. LHS. He goes on a tear for a couple of weeks and then is invisible, which makes you worry about the hip. Posada needs to either play or we need to go in a different direction. This in-between approach on the DH is neither helping Posada nor the team. Cano should start raking about now. He is seeing the ball well. Alex has to be Alex though, or nothing else will matter. & to my original point. SS is the least of our problems.

    Pitching hasn’t been and shouldn’t be a problem. Nova’s growing pains need to be tolerated.

  185. LGY May 29th, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    I don’t see why Nova’s swing and miss % is a big deal. He’s got a mid 4 ERA – if teams were just killing him, he’d have a 5 or 6 ERA. He’s acquitted himself just fine – it’s not his fault he’s in a rotation so shaky that he’s the #4.

    ——————-

    His ERA+ is 86.

  186. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Triple, that’s fine, but the point I was disagreeing with was that he’s not a MLB starter at this point and that he should be sent down to work on getting more swings and misses.

  187. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    LGY, ok, but I don’t care about ERA +. IMO, he’s been fine as a backend starter. He’s not been any reason why the Yankees have been mediocre. Phil had a 5 ERA last year after May 17 and no one talked about sending him down. Unless Nova implodes, he deserves to stay.

  188. Ghostwriter May 29th, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    LGY May 29th, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    Since June 1st 2010, Jorge has a .209/.345/.387 slash line.
    ============================

    Those are pretty alarming stats. I had realized that Po’s troubles dated back to last year.

  189. LGY May 29th, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    LGY, ok, but I don’t care about ERA +. IMO, he’s been fine as a backend starter. He’s not been any reason why the Yankees have been mediocre. Phil had a 5 ERA last year after May 17 and no one talked about sending him down. Unless Nova implodes, he deserves to stay.

    —————–

    Betsy,

    It is not always about the results. Phil has the tools to be a long term front line starter in the big leagues.

    In baseball, a lot of times it is about the process and Nova’s process is very troubling right now.

  190. yankeefeminista May 29th, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    The knock against Nova in the minors was that he didn’t exactly finish hitters off. His highest K rates were 7.14 his last year in AAA, but generally his K/9 hovered around 6.00. So, his not getting swings and misses isn’t that much of a surprise. Will that inability be a problem going forward? Looks like we are going to find out.

  191. LGY May 29th, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    As a groundball pitcher Nova can live with a low swinging strike rate.

    He can’t live with it this low.

    It’s is one of the main reasons he only averages 5 1/3 innings per start. Eventually it is so easy to make contact against you and you are unable to pick up strikeouts in a big spot, things are going to go wrong.

  192. J. Alfred Prufrock May 29th, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    LGY May 29th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
    Since June 1st 2010, Jorge has a .209/.345/.387 slash line.
    ///

    BABIP LH is like 70 points lower than last yr’s. Also OB is healthy enough. The point is, they’re paying him, he’ll hit if left to work it out. If they want to go in another direction, then that direction really needs to be Jesus Montero to make it worth tossing aside a guy who is probably capable of straightening himself out.

    It’s sure not worth is for someone like Jorge Vazquez, as some have been urging. There’s too much focus on these guys PA to PA.

  193. yankeefeminista May 29th, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    My brother just called and said the Sux are on TBS for those who care.

  194. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    LGY, I don’t want to turn this into a Phil thing again, but he has no secondary pitches so he definitely could have been better served in the minors. Even if he comes back healthy this year, I expect him to be the same pitcher he was in the 2nd half because without his FB, he’s naked. That’s why if he’s going to be here beyond his FA year, I think it’s vital he spend as much time in AAA as needed to make him mature has a pitcher. If we’re talking process, I didn’t see a great process from Phil last year – one FB or cutter after another. Nova has the tools as well – he has the stuff and the pitches. If Phil was given time, then Nova should as well.

  195. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    LGY, what was Wang’s swing and miss %? He was never one to get many strikeouts, yet he was a good pitcher……very good pitcher..

  196. LGY May 29th, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    LGY, what was Wang’s swing and miss %? He was never one to get many strikeouts, yet he was a good pitcher……very good pitcher..

    ——————–

    05: 5.5%
    06: 6.6%
    07: 6.9%
    08: 7.0%
    09: 7.2%

  197. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    Thanks!

    Either way, the Yankees are never going to develop pitchers if they don’t give them time to get through their growing pains. Nova, if he’s an issue at all, it’s because the rest of the rotation is no great shakes. We go through this every year, amazingly

  198. J. Alfred Prufrock May 29th, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    Ellsbury’s hitting .300? Funny how things shift. This guy was relegated to LF & the team was trying to make him look bad not long ago because they thought he was jaking it.

    Now, he’s back to leading off & playing everyday CF.

  199. Ghostwriter May 29th, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    LGY May 29th, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    As a groundball pitcher Nova can live with a low swinging strike rate.

    He can’t live with it this low.

    It’s is one of the main reasons he only averages 5 1/3 innings per start. Eventually it is so easy to make contact against you and you are unable to pick up strikeouts in a big spot, things are going to go wrong.
    ==============================

    I admit that I’m not familiar with this “swinging strike rate” statistic. However, I fail to see the basis for the remark that he can’t live with it at 3.9 percent. What is the minimal threshold for Nova to succeed with it? How did you arrive at it? What is the league average?

    In the end, I suspect that Nova’s biggest problem may be his repertoire more than his stuff: Throwing a 2-seamer and a curveball are probably too similar in how they look. He would probably benefit from working in the 4-seam fastball a bit more often, and he would probably increase his swings and misses. (I’m just guessing on this)

  200. yankeefeminista May 29th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    As per discussion last night about DRob’s changeup. Brooks has DRob throwing only 1 change and only one pitch at @86. Doesn’t agree at all with YES radar gun or gameday. No sliders listed. In the minors DRob threw a change around that velocity–86.

  201. Ghostwriter May 29th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    Thanks!

    Either way, the Yankees are never going to develop pitchers if they don’t give them time to get through their growing pains. Nova, if he’s an issue at all, it’s because the rest of the rotation is no great shakes. We go through this every year, amazingly
    =================================

    The rotation has been pretty solid this year.

  202. Betsy May 29th, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    Ghost, but it’s not one of the best. When a rookie is your #4 starter, that says something, I think.

  203. MTU May 29th, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    Can we all agree that the Yankees need to a better job of preparing some of their MiLB players for the bigs ?

    And that the Glideslope has to be made smoother ?

    Guys come up who can’t bunt.

    Pitchers come up w/o sufficient polish.

    Fielders whose footwork is incorrect.

    If they Yankees truly want to take advantage of their farm system then all that needs to improve.

    Quality should be emphasized throughout the process.

    And please don’t tell me they can learn that all at the ML level.

    I don’t buy it.

  204. West Coast Yankee Fan May 29th, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    The jury is in, Posada is done. Nothing could be more clear IMO. Posada as our DH is hitting .174 and that is entirely an offensive position. We cannot afford this.

    Here are some other AL DH’s for teams we compete against.

    Young – Texas – .332
    Hafner – Cleveland – .345
    Ortiz – Boston – .303
    Guerrero – Baltimore – .302
    Martinez – Detroit – .295
    Butler – KC – .293
    Damon – Rays – .271

  205. Ghostwriter May 29th, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    MTU May 29th, 2011 at 1:15 pm
    =============================

    I think that this is a very good point. I really wonder what is going on in the Yankee farm system. what are they teaching these kids? Why do they seem so unschooled in the fundamentals of the game? I can understand growing pains in getting adjusted to the Majors. I can’t understand getting picked off first base in a key situation, or not knowing how to execute a bunt.

  206. yankeefeminista May 29th, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    I was wondering when Wang would be brought into the discussion. That sinker in 2006 & 2007 was unhittable, and averaged @94mph, making swings and misses vastly overrated.

  207. randy l. May 29th, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    “Obviously Alex is the key ingredient in all of this. He has a 107 OPS+ in May with only 5XBH. And has a 72 OPS+ vs. LHS. He goes on a tear for a couple of weeks and then is invisible, which makes you worry about the hip.”

    i may be wrong, but i just take it for granted that alex is done being a superstar and is just a very good player. i’ve said for a while that he should be moved to the fifth spot to grease the slide down the lineup as he ages.

    he’s definitely one of the icons id like to see a manager tweak but ticking him off a bit. i’d pinch hit for jeter too with a game on the line if there was a better match up.

    i don’t agree with rich in nj on a lot of things , but i do agree with him that fairly recent performance should be a factor in where a guy hits.

    francona didn’t seem to have a problem hitting his 20 million dollar left fielder way down in the bottom of the line up and moving him all over the place.

    i think girardi should pay attention to that and do likewise.

  208. MTU May 29th, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    Ghost-

    Maybe instead of spending so much money on high priced free agents they should consider investing a little bit more money on MiLB
    coaches to teach these things ?

    Maybe they are spread too thin down there ?

    And in developing a more rational plan for how they want to break the youngsters in ?

    Just a thought.

  209. yankeefeminista May 29th, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    I don’t know if Posada is done, as much as this team is struggling on offense, and Posada may be the victim of that. If that is what they decide to do, so be it. There is no way Posada’s current #’s are definitive or represent his abilities. But the suckie offense probably won’t give him a chance to prove that. And Prufrock is right, that BABIP would indicate other than done. But this discussion is certainly done.

  210. Triple Short of a Cycle May 29th, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Guess Boston doesn’t have problems with guys they haven’t seen before

  211. randy l. May 29th, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    That sinker in 2006 & 2007 was unhittable, and averaged @94mph, making swings and misses vastly overrated.”

    yes, it was a freak of nature pitch.

    hard to compare it with other pitchers.

  212. MTU May 29th, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    Randy-

    You have be pretty strong to throw a bowling ball that fast.

    :)

  213. J. Alfred Prufrock May 29th, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    yankeefeminista May 29th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
    I don’t know if Posada is done, as much as this team is struggling on offense, and Posada may be the victim of that. If that is what they decide to do, so be it. There is no way Posada’s current #’s are definitive or represent his abilities. But the suckie offense probably won’t give him a chance to prove that. And Prufrock is right, that BABIP would indicate other than done. But this discussion is certainly done.
    ///

    The middle of the order is showing some signs of life. That really has to continue for anything else to normalize. Swisher’s power’s gone missing, Gardner has faded again at the plate, etc. These guys are complementary pieces. They can’t be looked at to provide unqualified offense. It only works when the center of the lineup is working. If the 3-4-5 hitters can be what we expect, the rest of the lineup will be in better balance, & Posada will contribute like he can.

  214. yankeefeminista May 29th, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    # randy l. May 29th, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    “Obviously Alex is the key ingredient in all of this. He has a 107 OPS+ in May with only 5XBH. And has a 72 OPS+ vs. LHS. He goes on a tear for a couple of weeks and then is invisible, which makes you worry about the hip.”

    i may be wrong, but i just take it for granted that alex is done being a superstar and is just a very good player. i’ve said for a while that he should be moved to the fifth spot to grease the slide down the lineup as he ages.

    he’s definitely one of the icons id like to see a manager tweak but ticking him off a bit. i’d pinch hit for jeter too with a game on the line if there was a better match up.

    i don’t agree with rich in nj on a lot of things , but i do agree with him that fairly recent performance should be a factor in where a guy hits.

    francona didn’t seem to have a problem hitting his 20 million dollar left fielder way down in the bottom of the line up and moving him all over the place.

    i think girardi should pay attention to that and do likewise.
    _____
    Alex may or may not be done being a superstar, but w/the hip his AB’s are a crap shoot. I have to think that more than age right now the hip is the determining factor in whether Alex can or can’t slug. I actually recommended Alex be moved down to fifth this morning to my sister. That said, this lineup is still dependent on Alex for a big part of our production, like it or not. You can see his effect in April vs. May on game results. But I don’t disagree that Alex is not what he was and we can’t rely on him as we once did. I also think Cano’s production should amp up about now.

    I too have no problem with moving pieces around based on how they are performing or on matchups, as long as it doesn’t become distracting and detrimental to the hitter. The manager is the boss, and players should know and accept that. It makes me laugh out loud when posters act as if Girardi is coddling players. I think generally he is just formulaic and lacks imagination. The innovation he is given credit for doesn’t really exist. Maddon, however, actually does a great job of moving players around based on performance and matchups.

  215. J. Alfred Prufrock May 29th, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    MTU May 29th, 2011 at 1:22 pm
    Ghost-

    Maybe instead of spending so much money on high priced free agents they should consider investing a little bit more money on MiLB
    coaches to teach these things ?
    ///

    Are these things mutually exclusive though? We should have signed Holliday. We needed to add a player with slugging who hits for average to lengthen the lineup as it ages. Heathcott is a couple yrs away & they seem to be taking a very conservative approach with the bat who could really help us, Montero, if he is even in their future plans.

  216. yankeefeminista May 29th, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    MTU, Two years from now, our milb contributions should be something to reckon with. The more we learn to prep and integrate from below; the better we will get at it. :)

  217. yankeefeminista May 29th, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    # randy l. May 29th, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    “That sinker in 2006 & 2007 was unhittable, and averaged @94mph, making swings and misses vastly overrated.”

    yes, it was a freak of nature pitch.

    hard to compare it with other pitchers.
    # MTU May 29th, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    Randy-

    You have be pretty strong to throw a bowling ball that fast.

    :)
    _____
    QFT on both counts. :)

  218. MTU May 29th, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    JAP-

    I wasn’t trying to imply they were mutually exclusive just that maybe they should invest more at the MiLB level.

  219. MTU May 29th, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    New thread ==>

  220. J. Alfred Prufrock May 29th, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    Bat Cano 3rd. The Giants probably cost themselves a division one year because they wouldn’t move Bonds up and Clark down.

    Well, time to get some actual air & sun.

    Can the Tigers win a home game?

  221. YES May 29th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Posada is not going to retire unless they buy him out. He knows this is his last pay day and will milk it to the end. He should be the once a week catcher & bench player/ pinch hitter. Even with Posada’s struggles, he provides a greater threat in the lineup than Cerveli and his defense is not that much worse than Cerveli’s.

    Jeter could still be effective as a starting shortstop and clubhouse leader but not in the lead off spot. His numbers would be acceptable in the 9th spot in the lineup, but his OBP is one of the lowest on the team. He is no longer a dynamic leadoff man capable of stealing bases & disrupting the oppositions defense. As long as the team is scared to make the tough choices concerning their old guard, they will play second fiddle to the Red Sox who do not let bruised egos stand in their way.

    Swisher needs to go. Even when he had better seasons, he still was a mess in the playoffs the last 2 seasons. He has too many holes in his swings & MLB pitchers expose him constantly. Over the course of a long season with lots of protection around him & facing plenty of mediocre pitching he will put up some decent numbers. However, once the pressure is tuned up & the pitching is better, he wilts into what he is; a below average hitter with many holes in his swing.

    Yankees need to bring Montero up & finally give him a shot. They also need to look for an impact bat even if its just for this season while Montero develops. But continuing to march out Posada & Swisher as everyday players at this point in the season is giving up.

  222. J. Alfred Prufrock May 29th, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    MTU May 29th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
    JAP-

    I wasn’t trying to imply they were mutually exclusive just that maybe they should invest more at the MiLB level.
    ///

    I hear that. Get them started young.

  223. J. Alfred Prufrock May 29th, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    Jeter could still be effective as a starting shortstop and clubhouse leader but not in the lead off spot. His numbers would be acceptable in the 9th spot in the lineup, but his OBP is one of the lowest on the team. He is no longer a dynamic leadoff man capable of stealing bases & disrupting the oppositions defense. As long as the team is scared to make the tough choices concerning their old guard, they will play second fiddle to the Red Sox who do not let bruised egos stand in their way.

    ///
    WHO is replacing Jeter at leadoff, YES?

  224. Ghostwriter May 31st, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    So, do you send Jones in this spot? I’d be very tempted to do it…

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