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Postgame notes: “I feel really strong physically and mentally”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes, Podcast on May 30, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Before the start of the ninth inning, Joe Girardi found Bartolo Colon on the Yankees bench. Colon was approaching 100 pitches, and Girardi wanted to know if his starting pitchers felt strong enough to finish the job. Could Colon pitch one more inning?

“He told me he had two more in him,” Girardi said. “I said, ‘Well, I don’t want to go two more. I want this to be it.’”

Of course, that was it. Colon keeps finding ways to surprise, and today it was by pitching the Yankees first shutout since last September. It was Colon’s first shutout since 2006. Obviously he can pitch at this level, as several people in the Yankees clubhouse pointed out, he’s been doing this for three months, since his first spring training start. Hard to call it a fluke at this point.

The question, then, is a big-picture variation of the one Girardi asked this afternoon: How much longer can he go?

“We weren’t really sure what we were going to get out of him,” Girardi said. “As he logs more innings, he’s kind of in some different water for him because he’s older, and he hasn’t done this for a while where he’s made 32 starts, but his stamina looks fine. The big thing about Bartolo is he never throws a lot of pitches. Very seldom do you see him throw 100 pitches in five innings. He may throw 100 in a game, but his innings are pretty economical. He doesn’t have long innings and it doesn’t take a lot out of him.”

Colon needed just 103 pitches this afternoon, but he also pushed his total innings count to 66.1. He’s already reached his second-highest single-season workload since 2005. He turned 38 years old last week, and he didn’t pitch at all last year. Derek Jeter joked that when the Yankees signed Colon, his first through was, “He should be well rested.”

“Bartolo’s never had issues with his stuff,” Jeter said. “He wasn’t healthy there for a while. As long as he’s healthy I don’t see any reason why he can’t produce.”

How long can he stay healthy? Impossible to say or even guess, but that’s really the only question that remains. Those spring training results have carried into the regular season, and the production seems legitimate.

“I feel really good,” Colon said. “I thank God that I’m healthy, and I’m helping the team to win. I feel really strong physically and mentally right now.”

Here’s Girardi, talking a lot about his starter.

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• Trevor Cahill had allowed as many as three runs in a start only twice this season. The Yankees scored that many in the first inning. “Cahill’s one of the best pitchers in baseball,” Mark Teixeira said. “We didn’t get a lot of hits off him, but we made them count. Scratching out a couple of runs early was big for us.”

• Speaking of Teixiera: He has a seven-game hitting streak and has four home runs in his past five games. He’s hit seven homers in his past 11 games and is now tied with Curtis Granderson for the second-most homers in the American League.

• Jeter extended his hitting streak to five games. He’s hitting .359 in that span and has reached base to start the first inning in 20 of his 41 games as the Yankees leadoff hitter this season.

• Speaking of leading off: Colon has not walked any of the 69 batters he’s faced to leadoff an inning. No other American League pitcher has started more than 30 innings without walking the leadoff hitter.

• This was Colon’s ninth career shutout and his first since July 5, 2006 in Seattle. It was his 32nd complete game.

• Colon said he actually feels like a better pitcher now than when he was in his prime because he’s throwing more strikes now. “When he first came up he threw the ball as hard as he could,” Jeter said. “Now he’s hitting spots, his ball is moving, he’s getting ahead of guys. He’s become more of a pitcher. I think he was more of a thrower.”

• Not so much a thrower and now more of a pitcher, Colon still hit 95 mph with his final pitch tonight. “That has always been his trademark (to throw hard late in games),” Girardi said. “Even when he was with Cleveland and the Angels, that was who Bartolo was. I don’t know if you necessarily expect it with all the innings he’s logged and all the injuries that he’s went through, but that was in his DNA.”

• Brett Gardner snapped an 0-for-13 stretch with a bunt single in the ninth. He also stole two bases tonight, the second one as part of a double steal that setup a sac fly in the seventh. It was a shallow fly ball to center. No chance any of the Yankees except Gardner would have so much as attempted to score on that ball.

• Jorge Posada is 0-for-10 on the road trip and has one hit in his past 17 at-bats.

• Alex Rodriguez snapped a season-high nine-game hitting streak.

• Jeter on seeing his friend Hideki Matsui: “He needs four more home runs for 500 so I’m happy for him. Obviously I don’t want him to get it while we’re here, but I’ve always told you he’s one of my favorite teammates. He was fun to play with, fun to watch. It’s good to catch up with him.”

• The Yankees are 22-4 against Oakland since Girardi became manager in 2008.

Associated Press photos

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137 Responses to “Postgame notes: “I feel really strong physically and mentally””

  1. Against All Odds May 30th, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    # blake May 30th, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    Lestah isnt an ace….

    ———————-

    don’t tell that to Francesa

  2. Mike_Boston May 30th, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    Mike_Boston May 30th, 2011 at 10:59 am

    Colon needs to dominate this lineup today, which I think he will…
    ————————————————-

    I love being right.

  3. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    So, if Boston loses, the Yankees will be tied for first place coming out of Memorial Day weekend? I would have signed up for that in ST.

  4. mick May 30th, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    I’ll pitch 2…gotta love bartolo

  5. blake May 30th, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    Colon > Lee and Lestah.

  6. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    “I feel really good,” Colon said. “I thank God that I’m healthy, and I’m helping the team to win. I feel really strong physically and mentally right now.”
    _______
    The one thing I never see mentioned is that–as a veteran–Colon knows what it takes to get through a season…how to take care of himself…pace himself…work out between games, etc. I believe he is here for the duration.

  7. LGY May 30th, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    Who do you think that he compares to? Not Berra. Not Dickey. Not Bench. And that is WITH the advantage of playing during the homer-happy era.

    ——————

    OPS/OPS+

    Posada: .851/122
    Bench: .817/126
    Yogi: .830/125
    Dickey: .868/127

  8. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    Plus–the other thing not many know–is that i the off-season–not only did he use stem cells and blood rich plasma to regenerate, but they actually cloned a second Bartolo, and that body is just awaiting a brain transplant when the first body goes. Don’t tell anybody….

  9. RhapsodyInBlue May 30th, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    LGY how old are you?

    Did you see Berra or bench in their primes?

  10. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    “Speaking of Teixiera: He has a seven-game hitting streak and has four home runs in his past five games. He’s hit seven homers in his past 11 games and is now tied with Curtis Granderson for the second-most homers in the American League”
    ___________
    And this is usually the month when he starts to get hot.

  11. blake May 30th, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    how about Gary Carter and Fisk?

  12. LGY May 30th, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    LGY how old are you?

    Did you see Berra or bench in their primes?

    —————-

    Is how old are you code for I have nothing substantive to add to the discussion?

    I don’t get why you keep bringing up age??

  13. LGY May 30th, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    Carter: .773/115
    Fisk: 797/117

  14. Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    Oh you mean our really good 1st baseman who is really good and has been really good this year is really good?

  15. RhapsodyInBlue May 30th, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    You guys are crazy.

    Posada was good for the team he played for in the era that he played, just like Varitek was good for the Red Sox for the same reasons but neither compare to Bench or Berra.

    Posada had a good career but you guys are pushing it.

    I didn’t see Dickey.

  16. Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    Soria is out as KC’s closer. We can probably trade Whelan for him straight up now that he is just an overpriced middle reliever.

  17. Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    Varitek is worse in every way compared to Posada: .257 .342 .434 .776

    You don’t even know the players you’re debating.

  18. blake May 30th, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    Tex has a .914 OPS and is on a 50 homer pace.

    Agon is driving in a lot of runs and hitting for average but is only on pace for 30 homers and currently has a .930 OPS.

    Tex is heating up…..

    Another thing I found interesting was that Jeter’s slash line was .295/.343/.421/.764 on the road so far. Still not at his career norms….but much closer.

  19. RhapsodyInBlue May 30th, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    “Is how old are you code for I have nothing substantive to add to the discussion?”

    It’s code for you’ve only see one decent catcher in Yankee pinstripes and that’s Posada.

    I’d take Munson any day of the week over Posada.

  20. Chase May 30th, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    I love Hideki Matsui.

  21. blake May 30th, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Posada’s seasonal averages dwarf Carter’s. He got a late start and that hurts his cumulative numbers…..I think if he doesn’t get in then that will be why. He was good enough…..he just may not have compiled enough for some voters to check yes…..and I think that will be unfortunate.

  22. LGY May 30th, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Campanella: .860/123
    Bresnahan: .764/126
    Cochrane: .827/128
    Ewing: .807/129
    Ferrell: .741/95
    Hartnett: .858/126
    Lombardi: .818/126
    Schalk: .656/83

  23. rconn23 May 30th, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    Jason Varitek was never close to the hitter that Posada was.

    The fact that Posada is done at age 40 doesn’t negate the fact that he had a great career and was the catcher of the decade in the AL in the 2000s.

  24. RS May 30th, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    Yankees now have the best run differential in baseball…the pitching will probably falter a bit but if the offense can pick up their batting average w/RISP, their record should start to reflect the stats

  25. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    I think one could compare Jorge to Gene Tenace, and at the end of the day say that Po had some great years where he put up tremendous numbers, but just not enough of them.

  26. RhapsodyInBlue May 30th, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    Jerkface

    I’m not comparing Posada to Varitek simply pointing out that neither is HOF bound.

    They were both good for the systems that they played in, that’s it.

    Comparing Posada to Bench, Berra or Pudge is a joke.

  27. Mike_Boston May 30th, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    RhapsodyInBlue May 30th, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    Posada was good for the team he played for in the era that he played, just like Varitek was good for the Red Sox for the same reasons…
    ———————————————————
    Is this a joke?
    The only thing they have in common is they’re switch hitting catchers, it ends there…

  28. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    When Ted Simmons, Brian Downing, and Gene Tenace get in, then Po has a chance.

  29. LGY May 30th, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    Munson: .756 OPS, 116 OPS+

  30. G-C May 30th, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    You don’t have to have seen a player play to debate how productive he was in an educated fashion.

    I debated my dad for years on that point and he’s finally relented.

    I think I managed to convince him that just because people thought a player was “great” when they watched him play with “their own eyes” doesn’t mean he was actually great.

    The best methods and means for evaluating players has evolved significantly over time. What was considered “great” back then does not have to be “great” in retrospect. This is something that can be applied to many different walks of society, not just baseball.

  31. blake May 30th, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    “Comparing Posada to Bench, Berra or Pudge is a joke.”

    even if that were true then it still doesn’t mean that Posada shouldn’t get in….those are 3 of the best catchers ever. Unless you have to be as good as them to get into the HOF then that really doesn’t matter.

  32. LGY May 30th, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    Posada age 28-35

    .283/.389/.492 130 OPS+

  33. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 9:34 pm
    Soria is out as KC’s closer. We can probably trade Whelan for him straight up now that he is just an overpriced middle reliever.
    __________
    Make the call and use the “Brian Cashman Voice Synthesizer” to make it happen.

  34. ZMAN May 30th, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    So, if Boston loses, the Yankees will be tied for first place coming out of Memorial Day weekend? I would have signed up for that in ST.

    ————-

    Even if you were told that the Red Sox would start 2-11 and that we would have a 7 game loss column lead as recently as May 11th?

  35. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    LGY May 30th, 2011 at 9:42 pm
    Posada age 28-35

    .283/.389/.492 130 OPS+
    _________
    If that were age 24-35, you’d be dead right.

    Almost the same argument as Andruw Jones…had some monster years, but might not have enough…IMO, he gets in before Posada anyway.

  36. blake May 30th, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    “Soria is out as KC’s closer. ”

    this shows you 2 things. 1) that all relief pitchers are extremely volatile and that you should use a great deal of caution before trading anything of substance for them 2) furthers the argument that Rivera is a freak of nature.

  37. LGY May 30th, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    Crawford 0 for his last 10.

    I guess pronouncing him FIXED after 2 great games was a little premature, eh?

  38. Ghostwriter May 30th, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    I think one could compare Jorge to Gene Tenace, and at the end of the day say that Po had some great years where he put up tremendous numbers, but just not enough of them.
    =====================================

    That’s it in a nutshell. You want to hear the shorter argument? 267 HRs. Somebody can correct if I’m wrong, but all of the ctachers that are in the Hall have at least 300 homers. Posada doesn’t have them, and likely won’t get there. And he almost definitely won’t get there as a catcher. Posada was a very nice player, but he is at best a borderline HoF’er. He has a long wait ahead of him, before he gets in.

  39. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 9:47 pm

    ZMAN May 30th, 2011 at 9:44 pm
    _____________
    Yep–streaks happen. I expect the Yankees to play better in warmer weather and also make some nice TD pick-ups (Beltran?) Come September when the rosters expand, we should have a clear advantage over Boston due to the depth we have in minors.

  40. Mike_Boston May 30th, 2011 at 9:47 pm

    Just catching replay now, in the 7th the camera catches Colon picking his nose, 5 seconds later Cone says “the Yanks picked a winner there with Colon”, good stuff.

  41. LGY May 30th, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    Only four catchers in the HOF have 300+ HR.

    Posada would have the 5th most if he got in.

  42. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    LGY May 30th, 2011 at 9:46 pm
    Crawford 0 for his last 10.

    I guess pronouncing him FIXED after 2 great games was a little premature, eh?
    ___________
    When he was proclaimed FIXED, they were probably referring to a surgical treatment he had.

  43. RhapsodyInBlue May 30th, 2011 at 9:49 pm

    LGY

    Mr. numbers.

    Did you see Munson Play? One time?

    I probably say 99 percent of his games.

    You stick to google that’s what you know.

  44. Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 9:49 pm

    Somebody can correct if I’m wrong, but all of the ctachers that are in the Hall have at least 300 homers.

    You’re wrong. Corrected.

  45. LGY May 30th, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    I probably say 99 percent of his games.

    ————–

    Nothing that you have said in this conversation leads me to believe I should have any confidence in your ability to objectively evaluate major league catchers. Therefore, you seeing 99% of his games means next to nothing to me.

  46. Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    I would take Arky Vaughn anyday of the week over Derek Jeter at short, but if you didn’t see him play you wouldn’t understand.

  47. blake May 30th, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    Crawford never was broken….he’s just not the player the Sox paid for. He’s a good player….not a great or elite player.

    That said….his slash against LHP is .109/.162/.172/.334. That is incredibly terrible. It’s amazing the change that Granderson was able to make in that area…..

  48. G-C May 30th, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    ‘LGY

    Mr. numbers.

    Did you see Munson Play? One time?

    I probably say 99 percent of his games.

    You stick to google that’s what you know.’

    _____________________________________

    Since when do you have to watch a player play to evaluate his performance effectively?

    That’s like saying that none of us saw Abraham Lincoln as President, so we can’t evaluate him. Stick to the history books why don’t you!

  49. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    I’m 100% positive that Varitek will get into the HOF. I’m sure he’ll buy a ticket to see the induction of Pedro Martinez.

  50. RhapsodyInBlue May 30th, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    LG

    Ok junior.

  51. RhapsodyInBlue May 30th, 2011 at 9:54 pm

    If you have to argue whether or not someone belongs in the HOF then he doesn’t.

    Night.

  52. G-C May 30th, 2011 at 9:54 pm

    I’ve heard that Adolf Hitler might have been a been a bad guy, but I never saw him run Germany, so I can’t really say for sure.

  53. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    G-C May 30th, 2011 at 9:54 pm
    I’ve heard that Adolf Hitler might have been a been a bad guy, but I never saw him run Germany, so I can’t really say for sure.
    ___________
    I googled it. He sucked.

  54. Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    Crawford never was broken….he’s just not the player the Sox paid for. He’s a good player….not a great or elite player.

    Yup, he is a guy I’d take on the yankees at 16 million or less. But once the talks got to 18 million and then the red sox broke the bank I no longer wanted him. He is like a Damon or a Matsui, a guy that is great to have at 13 million a year, and should help consistently and might even have a huge season or two, but not a guy you pay 20 million a year because he won’t be big in the lineup. A guy like A-rod, Tex, A-gon, or Youk can feel big in a lineup. When they get on base 40% of the time or hit 35+ HRs. Crawford doesn’t get on base enough, doesn’t hit lefties enough, doesn’t have enough power. He is a pest. Not a cornerstone.

  55. LGY May 30th, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    If you have to argue whether or not someone belongs in the HOF then he doesn’t.

    ——————-

    There has never been a unanimous induction into the HOF.

    Your HOF would consist of zero players.

  56. Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    If you have to argue whether or not someone belongs in the HOF then he doesn’t.

    A silly argument that negates many of the players who entered the hall in the first place.

  57. Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    http://joeposnanski.blogspot.c.....-fame.html

  58. Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    There is no way Jim Rice or Andre Dawson should be in the hall of fame.

  59. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 9:55 pm
    ________
    Nicely put.

  60. Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    Everyone read that article I just linked, its by Joe Pos and its very good at explaining why some people have too high standards for the Hof.

  61. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 9:58 pm

    Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 9:56 pm
    There is no way Jim Rice or Andre Dawson should be in the hall of fame.
    ____________
    This is why I said it is tough to predict…Voters…who can figure them?

  62. LGY May 30th, 2011 at 9:58 pm

    Swisher is back to having a higher OPS than Crawford!

    Oh no, Crawford sucks again!!

    /worstOFintheALEast

  63. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    Frankly, it irritates me how the voters elect HOF members…Bernie, Andruw, Jorge may not make it in because they didn’t have a long enough span of domination, but Koufax gets in for basically 6 great years.

    There has to be a better, fairer way…I propose they just ask JF and a few others here, and then let me have the final say.

  64. Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 10:07 pm

    There is never going to be a fair way, but I suppose doing something like a WAR cutoff would work. If you are super dominant over a short stretch you should accumulate enough to get in. The problem with that is that it rewards mediocrity in longevity.

  65. Against All Odds May 30th, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    # Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    Soria is out as KC’s closer. We can probably trade Whelan for him straight up now that he is just an overpriced middle reliever.

    ———————————————–

    Overpriced relievers are Randy Levine’s specialty. :)

  66. Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    Overpriced relievers are Randy Levine’s specialty.

    We can probably get negotiate all of Soria’s guaranteed years into player options with a 4 mil increase

  67. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    I still like my method. My final determination would be straight-forward. It would be totally based on how much money is deposited in a secret bank account in the Cayman Islands…no politics…no “silly stats” or past performance garbage….

  68. Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    “LGY how old are you?”

    Why do people think that being old(er) means you know more than younger people?

    It’s freakin’ condescending.

  69. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 10:07 pm

    The problem with that is that it rewards mediocrity in longevity.
    ____________
    That could be dealt with in a couple of ways.

    a) Divide the total WAR by number of years. If below 3 (for example), they don’t get in.

    b) Throw out any years where WAR is below 2.5 (for example) in totalling career WAR.

  70. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 10:13 pm

    Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 10:12 pm
    “LGY how old are you?”

    Why do people think that being old(er) means you know more than younger people?
    ___________
    You’ll understand when you get older.

    :-)

  71. Against All Odds May 30th, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    # Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    Overpriced relievers are Randy Levine’s specialty.

    We can probably get negotiate all of Soria’s guaranteed years into player options with a 4 mil increase

    ——————————————–

    It’s a start but not enough for Randy to get involved. The terms of the contract have to be more ridiculous. Think video game like where back up players get 5-8 yr deals.

  72. Against All Odds May 30th, 2011 at 10:18 pm

    # BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 10:13 pm

    Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 10:12 pm
    “LGY how old are you?”

    Why do people think that being old(er) means you know more than younger people?
    ___________
    You’ll understand when you get older.

    :-)

    ———————————-

    Oh so it’s like the old saying back in my day…..

  73. Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 10:18 pm

    Not to miss your sense of humor, BoJo, but one of my earliest baseball memories was watching Mickey Mantle limp around the bases as a kid.

  74. REZ12 May 30th, 2011 at 10:19 pm

    Just thinking outloud – Ortiz a HOF? He will finish with over 400 career HRs, 1,250 RBIs, career slash line of .281 /.376/.543 /.920, even better when you only look at his Boston years. Formed probably one of the best 1-2 punches of all time for 1\2 a decade, with Manny. Won 2 championships, big time clutch player. Didn’t admit to using steroids, so he will probably get a pass from the writers.

    If a compiler like Damon is getting love as a borderline HOFer, then why not Ortiz who has an extended period of elite performance? We’re talking about a cleanup hitter on one of the best teams in baseball over that time period who was a top 3 hitter all those years.

  75. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 10:20 pm

    I wonder what is wrong with Soria, and if a visit to get Colon surgery would help.

    Frankly, I would look into whether stem cell usage and the other procedure should be an ongoing part of training or off-season woekouts. Every pitcher goes through some muscle fraying or deterioration while pitching, and perhaps this new approach could keep them stronger longer.

  76. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 10:18 pm
    Not to miss your sense of humor, BoJo, but one of my earliest baseball memories was watching Mickey Mantle limp around the bases as a kid.
    ____________
    Just so long as you know it was a joke…some people don’t get them. I know you do.

  77. LGY May 30th, 2011 at 10:24 pm

    Watching Crawford face LHP is really entertaining.

  78. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    REZ12 May 30th, 2011 at 10:19 pm
    Just thinking outloud – Ortiz a HOF?
    _______
    Well–if I was deciding…I’d have to ask–how much is it worth to you, and can you electronically transfer funds.

    Overall, he has a WAR of like 32…way below the usual HOFer…Way below Dale Murphy for example. I don’t think he gets in, until ESPN and Jim Rice start campaigning.

  79. Ghostwriter May 30th, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    LGY May 30th, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    Only four catchers in the HOF have 300+ HR.

    Posada would have the 5th most if he got in.
    ===================

    You’re right about that. I thought Dickey had more homers than he did (202). Of the inductees over the last 50 years or so, they all have more than 300 homers. (There are 16 catchers in the HOF) The others are Negro Leaguers, guys that won MVPs, or with amazing longevity at the position.

    I still don’t see an easy path for Posada. He never led the league in any offensive categories, aside from GDP; never won an MVP (finished in the top 10 twice); and has unimpressive career totals. There is nothing that really makes him stand out aside from the World Series. And of course, there is his OPS, which is sustained by a .376 OBP. Is it possible for a player to walk his way to the HoF? Time will tell.

  80. Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 10:31 pm

    Producing at a high level for as long as Posada has/had should make him stand out to any reasonable HoF voter who understands the history of the game.

  81. Tar May 30th, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    Not looking at any numbers- I would take Munson over Posada.

  82. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 10:33 pm

    Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 10:31 pm
    Producing at a high level for as long as Posada has/had should make him stand out to any reasonable HoF voter who understands the history of the game.
    __________
    Might not have enough years…Voters are fickle.

  83. BoJo May 30th, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    Off to bed…good night night people.

  84. LGY May 30th, 2011 at 10:39 pm

    New York Yankees: 29-23 .558 WP
    Boston Red Sox: 30-24 .556 WP
    Tampa Rays: 28-25 .528 WP

    :D

  85. Ghostwriter May 30th, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 10:31 pm

    Producing at a high level for as long as Posada has/had should make him stand out to any reasonable HoF voter who understands the history of the game.
    ======================================

    I’m reasonable, and I understand the history of the game. I’m also inclined to put my thumb on the scale in his favor, because he is a Yankee and I like him. However, an honest appraisal of his career is that he is a borderline HoF’er at best.

  86. Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    Its amazing how teams with such identical records can have 2 different narratives.

  87. Ghostwriter May 30th, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    LGY May 30th, 2011 at 10:39 pm

    New York Yankees: 29-23 .558 WP
    Boston Red Sox: 30-24 .556 WP
    Tampa Rays: 28-25 .528 WP

    ==============

    Good news. I’m outta’ here. Good night, all

  88. Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    However, an honest appraisal of his career is that he is a borderline HoF’er at best.

    Can you really say that its an honest appraisal, when it is coming from you, who feels that way? I think an honest appraisal is that he is clearly a hall of famer, given his positioning on catcher leaderboards, his rings, and position as starting catcher on great teams for more than 10 years.

    A less than honest appraisal is to say he is borderline for many nit picky reasons, the same of which could be said for many hall of famers.

  89. Nick in SF May 30th, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    “Pudge wasn’t a dope…” but was Pudge doping?

  90. Ghostwriter May 30th, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    However, an honest appraisal of his career is that he is a borderline HoF’er at best.

    Can you really say that its an honest appraisal, when it is coming from you, who feels that way? I think an honest appraisal is that he is clearly a hall of famer, given his positioning on catcher leaderboards, his rings, and position as starting catcher on great teams for more than 10 years.

    A less than honest appraisal is to say he is borderline for many nit picky reasons, the same of which could be said for many hall of famers.
    ===============================================

    Okay, one last post before I go off to bed. The case that you seem to be making for him seems to rest on cherry-picking the stats that help his cause (his OPS) and ignoring those that don’t: e.g., his hit and homer totals. Meanwhile, his other individual accomplishments seem to be sorely lacking, he never won an MVP, never led the league in an offensive category, and had at best 3 or 4 good years as a defensive catcher. Yes, he has the rings, but those are hard to explain as an individual achievemtn

    If I was actually voting on his candidacy, I would go through each of the bios and records of the current inductees, and try to look for a way to shoehorn him in. My cursory review of the other inductees suggests that Posada doesn’t make the cut. If you actually believe that he is a first-ballot HoFer, time will prove you wrong soon enough. Piazza and Pudge have much stronger claims to induction than Posada; they are going in before Posada. The sportswriters are going to make Posada wait for it, and in the end, it may take the VC to let him in. They will do this because he is borderline. Even the Jamesian stats for such things suggest as much.

  91. Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 11:01 pm

    If you actually believe that he is a first-ballot HoFer, time will prove you wrong soon enough.
    Piazza and Pudge have much stronger claims to induction than Posada; they are going in before Posada.

    This is silly. First of all, first-ballot means very little, its wholly manufactured nonsense. Piazza will go in before Posada because he will be eligible before Posada. Pudge might hold on longer than Posada as he tries to get to 3000 hits.

  92. Nick in SF May 30th, 2011 at 11:02 pm

    I took a pic of Jorge’s last flailing swing… I’m afraid it would doom his HOF chances if it ever saw the light of day.

    I’d better spike it. :cry:

  93. Eroc May 30th, 2011 at 11:06 pm

    Our first shutout of the season

  94. Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 11:07 pm

    Okay, one last post before I go off to bed. The case that you seem to be making for him seems to rest on cherry-picking the stats that help his cause (his OPS) and ignoring those that don’t: e.g., his hit and homer totals. Meanwhile, his other individual accomplishments seem to be sorely lacking, he never won an MVP, never led the league in an offensive category, and had at best 3 or 4 good years as a defensive catcher. Yes, he has the rings, but those are hard to explain as an individual achievemtn

    -

    OPS encapsulates a players total contributions. And he is the 7th best catcher in history by that stat. Of all retired catchers he is the 7th best in slugging. 12th best in OBP (which includes 5 catchers that slugged .400 or less)

    Its nearly impossible to get great counting stats as a catcher because you physically don’t play as many games and your career is shorter. Pudge is going to be the first and only catcher to ever get 3000 hits most likely, and he might not even get it. And for Posada, who walks more than 10% of the time, he simply doesn’t have the AB’s to pile up lots of hits. Every walk takes away the chance for a hit.

    In rate production he is near the top, surrounded by hall of famers, and he has the narrative championship winner cred to get in.

  95. Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 11:13 pm

    “Not looking at any numbers- I would take Munson over Posada.”

    For the entirety of their career? Munson was basically done behind the plate at 32, before his death.

    As far as numbers,

    Muson 116 v. Posada 122, so I don’t know what numbers you’re looking at.

  96. Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 11:14 pm

    Oh sorry, “not looking.” My bad.

    As I alluded to above, people underestimate how difficult it is to remain a productive catcher into your late-30s. It has been extremely rare.

  97. Mike_Boston May 30th, 2011 at 11:18 pm

    I don’t see where the confusion is with Posada and the HOF. Sam linked an article the other day from ESPN that placed him in the top 10-12 catchers ever (granted this writer doesn’t think he’ll make it but who cares, the guy is just trying to sell to the NYY haters out there). Considering there are 17 catchers in the HOF, it would seem pretty weird to think he won’t make it eventually. If you don’t feel he’s not in the top 10-12 of catchers of all time, well that’s a different argument all together, numbers don’t lie.

  98. Tar May 30th, 2011 at 11:28 pm

    Odd but it’s a question I have never considered before–Munson or Posada?

    Thinking of them in both in their prime and looking at the whole package–

    offense, defense, intagibles. (not looking at numbers)

    I pick Munson hands down.

    Of course Thurman was one of my favorite all-time players. :wink:

  99. Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 11:32 pm

    Munson was my favorite player of the era. I still have an autographed picture that he sent me via a stamped self-addressed return envelope, and maybe if Munson could have remained at a high level for as long as Posada has my analysis would be different, but unfortunately, that’s not how it played out.

  100. Tar May 30th, 2011 at 11:38 pm

    Rich

    “I still have an autographed picture that he sent me via a stamped self-addressed return envelope” :D

    How about comparing them at their prime? Posada at his best Munson at his best.

    I know I don’t think twice about picking Munson.

  101. Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 11:48 pm

    Tar

    Munson had that quick release and was tough as nails, but wore down.

    Posada’s release was never as good as Munson’s, but his longevity is amazing, so his prime was far longer.

    Peak seasons (OPS+):

    Munson: 141 in 1973 (age 26)
    Posada: 153 in 2007 (age 35)

    Seasons with an OPS+ 120 or >

    Munson: 5
    Posada::7

    Seasons with an OPS+ 130 or >

    Munson: 1
    Posada: 4

  102. Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 11:49 pm

    Posada in his prime is a .900 OPS bat who can throw out 30% of runners and is a switch hitter. I probably take Posada. Munson’s prime offensive ability is just Posada’s career slash line.

  103. Tar May 31st, 2011 at 12:08 am

    “Munson’s prime offensive ability is just Posada’s career slash line”

    I think you both are over valuing offense at a defensive position.

    I love Po, but in their prime Munson is a way better defensive catcher, not even close.

    IMO Posada’s defensive shortcomings do not make up for any offensive advantage he made have had over Munson.

    Plus Munson was a better base runner :D

  104. AldotheApache May 31st, 2011 at 12:12 am

    JF, saw them both in their prime. I’d take Munson for his timely hitting, ability to hit for average and to all fields, his ability to call a game, definitely a team leader, hardnosed as they come.

    No reflection whatsoever on Posada. A warrior and a winner. Hates to lose. A switch-hitting power hitting catcher with a high OBP, who performs a that level for 10-12 years … how often does that come along? I agree with Rich that he is very underappreciated.

  105. Jerkface May 31st, 2011 at 12:13 am

    I’ll take this: .338 .426 .543 .970 at catcher any year.

  106. Rob_NY May 31st, 2011 at 12:17 am

    RhapsodyInBlue May 30th, 2011 at 9:52 pm
    LG

    Ok junior.

    ============================================

    1) FLAME ON!

    2) Jo Po is one of the best catchers in history whether your eyes agree or not. His rate statistics compare favorably to people who are in. Statistics are just a measurement of what people saw happen on the field of play. The only argument is one already made that he didn’t do it long enough. But aside from that there’s not really a winning argument to keep him out. “I saw him you didn’t” is a bad argument and you probably shouldn’t make it. Unless of course it’s just meant to anger people in which case, See point 1.

  107. Wang IS Taiwan May 31st, 2011 at 12:27 am

    Still miss Matsui. Talk about coming through in the clutch. That guy didn’t scare. Too bad his knees gave out on him.

    And have you EVER heard Jeter talk so glowingly about a teammate? You can see he really did enjoy playing with the guy. Matsui had one heck of a sense of humor, but his work ethic was also terrific.

    It always bugged the heck out of Ichiro that Japan’s #1 baseball hero was always Matsui. Jealousy is a tough demon.

    Still chuckle when I think about Matsui showing a hand-drawn portrait of his financee to the media, and then making some cash off Abreu and Jeter on that wedding bet by hookwinking them both.

  108. Rich in NJ May 31st, 2011 at 12:36 am

    I think the consecutive game streak in Japan, playing so many games on artificial turf, contributed to Matsui’s premature decline.

  109. Jerkface May 31st, 2011 at 12:51 am

    Matsui is my favorite yankee ever.

  110. Nick in SF May 31st, 2011 at 12:57 am

    I didn’t enjoy seeing Matsui in an A’s uni today. Really doesn’t look right.

    Ichiro is great, but he let a barking dog keep him ringless in Seattle.

    Maybe he’ll have something left and come to NY and play for peanuts to try to win a ring down the line.

  111. Wang IS Taiwan May 31st, 2011 at 12:58 am

    Rich — I think you’re right. I honestly hated that streak while he was here…and don’t get me started on the artificial turf! Guy was a true warrior, though. Had some Samurai in him, me thinks.

  112. West Coast Yankee Fan May 31st, 2011 at 1:04 am

    Jerkface is my favorite poster ever. His flavorful array of deep fried metrics when combined with his boundless bombastic baseball bluster makes him a first ballot lock for the blogger hall of fame in my opinion.

    V O T E
    F O R
    J E R K F A C E !

  113. Jerkface May 31st, 2011 at 1:08 am

    See? I told you everyone who tries me likes me.

  114. Wang IS Taiwan May 31st, 2011 at 1:21 am

    So Nick, you fell for the “barking dog” story, hmm…? :) That was a good one, I must admit. I wish Matsui had felt comfortable enough to share his jokes with us. Learning English was numero uno for Ichiro. Smart marketing, I gotta admit.

    And I don’t want Ichiro on his last legs…we’ve already got Jete for that. Check out their hitting stats this season. Very similar…

    I’d rather have a better bat (and fielder) replace Swisher next season. I don’t see how the Yanks would pick up his option at this point, even IF if improves a tad.

  115. Wang IS Taiwan May 31st, 2011 at 1:22 am

    that second “if” is he…wow, my fingers have a mind of their own

  116. Nick in SF May 31st, 2011 at 1:29 am

    Swish stroked a nice double today. I think he’s coming back next season.

    If he stays around .210 or worse, however… all bets are off.

    As for Ichiro, if he’s got nothing left by the time he escapes Seattle, then yeah, no need. I guess I look at him and think about how Wade Boggs and Cecil Fielder got their rings as Yankees and wonder if Ichiro couldn’t come in as a role-player and do the same. Probably not.

  117. Wang IS Taiwan May 31st, 2011 at 1:38 am

    Isn’t Swish’s option 10M, though? They could get someone much better for that money. I do hope he hits better than .210, though…

    Don’t think Ichiro’s ego could handle being a 4th outfielder. I think he’d love NY’s bright lights, though.

  118. Nick in SF May 31st, 2011 at 1:48 am

    Does Ichiro want to go back to Japan with no ring?!?! :mad:

    But yeah, being a complimentary player might be too hard for him to take. And then he would still have to get the World Series MVP to equal Godzilla. Probably a pipe dream.

  119. Vineyard Yankee May 31st, 2011 at 3:03 am

    West Coast Yankee Fan May 31st, 2011 at 1:04 am

    In the bag again ?

  120. Jerkface May 31st, 2011 at 4:25 am

    Isn’t Swish’s option 10M, though? They could get someone much better for that money.

    Look at the FA list next year. The only better they can get is by trade. There are no stud outfielders coming to market next year and having a player under contract for a single year is a valuable commodity.

  121. RhapsodyInBlue May 31st, 2011 at 6:52 am

    Munson’s career was a brief 9 and 1/2 years, however his rookie year he only appeared in 26 games.

    Thurman was a Rookie of the Year, an MVP of the AL and an all star for 7 years of those years and a member of the World Champions 1977-78, they lost to the big red machine in 1976.

    When he died that great Yankee team died with him. They were World Champions in 1977-78 he died early in the 1979 season, that was the end of an era in Yankee history.

    Too many posters here who rely on stats to make comparisons of Jorge Posada to Yankee catchers when those posters were not alive to see the catchers they’re making comparing Posada to.

    I’d love to hear someone like Sweet Lou compare the two just for the sake of shutting up this group here that have Bill James lodged so far up their rumps that their logic is devoid of common sense..

  122. 108 stitches May 31st, 2011 at 7:00 am

    Sox won, 7-3.
    Actually it was the original Sox that won. The Chicago White Stockings in 1900 changed their name to the Chicago White Sox in 1904. The Boston Americans in 1901 changed to Red Sox in 1908.

  123. RhapsodyInBlue May 31st, 2011 at 7:00 am

    Thurman only appeared in 26 games in 1969, so 1970 when he won the ROY was actually his second year with the club. So to clarify my last post.

  124. Ghostwriter May 31st, 2011 at 7:01 am

    Jerkface May 30th, 2011 at 11:07 pm

    Okay, one last post before I go off to bed. The case that you seem to be making for him seems to rest on cherry-picking the stats that help his cause (his OPS) and ignoring those that don’t: e.g., his hit and homer totals. Meanwhile, his other individual accomplishments seem to be sorely lacking, he never won an MVP, never led the league in an offensive category, and had at best 3 or 4 good years as a defensive catcher. Yes, he has the rings, but those are hard to explain as an individual achievemtn

    -

    OPS encapsulates a players total contributions. And he is the 7th best catcher in history by that stat. Of all retired catchers he is the 7th best in slugging. 12th best in OBP (which includes 5 catchers that slugged .400 or less)

    Its nearly impossible to get great counting stats as a catcher because you physically don’t play as many games and your career is shorter. Pudge is going to be the first and only catcher to ever get 3000 hits most likely, and he might not even get it. And for Posada, who walks more than 10% of the time, he simply doesn’t have the AB’s to pile up lots of hits. Every walk takes away the chance for a hit.

    In rate production he is near the top, surrounded by hall of famers, and he has the narrative championship winner cred to get in.

    ==================================================
    Three Points:

    First, OPS encapsulates a players RATE of contributions. And OPS is important–the rate of production is an extremely important barometer. However, at some point, the accumulations matter. You can tell me that it snowed 4 inches per hour on average during a given snowstorm, but that alone does not provide enough information to determine the magnitude of the event. You need accumulations–i.e., counting stats– for that determination.

    Second, I compared Posada’s counting stats with other catchers, so your argument about the shortcomings of counting stats for catchers is a bit specious. Posada will be lucky to end his career with 1,800 hits. Most of the others, Berra, Bench, Fisk, and Carter have over 2,000. Posada’s HR totals also are pretty light for a modern HoF Catcher, as I noted above.

    Third, to vote in Posada, we need to grade his hitting on a curve (stats…for a catcher), but his defense as a catcher is pretty substandard. Posada’s CS% is 28 percent. Of the guys that we’ve discussed on this thread, only Piazza is worse at 23 percent. Everybody else checks in above the 34-percent mark. And don’t get me started on the passed balls–152 of them for Posada has got to be some sort of record–Piazza, the guy whose ticket was punched by the 417 career homers, only has 125 of them.

    There are arguments to be made in Posada’s favor. For example, he was a late bloomer, and so looking at his accumulations over a subset of his career might a more appropriate metric. Furthermore, he was apparently clean in the steroids era. And so on. In the end, it will be these kinds of arguments that will carry the day for him. However it is far from a slam dunk for his induction into the HoF: If he makes it in, great, I’ll be happy for him. And if he doesn’t, then it’s too bad for him, but I can understand it; it would be no travesty of judgment–Posda had a very good, but not necessarily great. career, like a lot of other near-greats (Mattingly, TJ, Nettles(?), etc.).

  125. RhapsodyInBlue May 31st, 2011 at 7:05 am

    I agree Ghostwriter. Posada had a fine career. I just don’t think he’ll make the hall.

  126. Rich in NJ May 31st, 2011 at 7:32 am

    There is no material deficit in Posada’s aggregate production, however, counting stats are of limited utility because they can be skewed by factors that are beyond a player’s control that make accurate comparisons problematic. That’s why park-adjusted, league-adjusted stats like OPS+ are so valuable, and when they are employed, the uniqueness of Posada’s career is (or should be) apparent.

    As for CS%, it’s pretty much accepted wisdom in baseball that most bases are stolen off of a pitcher.

    The Mattingly analogy could’t be more inapt. He isn’t a HoF because his production declined as a result of a back injury that sapped his ability to SLG.

    The arc of Posada’s career has been the polar opposite. He arguably had his best offensive season at age 35, so his longevity, particularly for a catcher is nothing short of amazing, and as a result, he is HoF worthy.

  127. Gary May 31st, 2011 at 7:32 am

    Morning, well the beat goes on against Oakland. They must just love to play the Yanks.

    Colon was lights out yesterday and guess what the Yanks are back in first.

    It’s over for Jorge, hitting .169 now with two more K’s. I wish Joe didn’t stick him out there for the last K against the left hander.

  128. MTU May 31st, 2011 at 7:47 am

    Morning.

    I always wondered what “lightning in a bottle” looked like.

    Watching Colon pitch I now know.

    ;)

  129. MTU May 31st, 2011 at 7:54 am

    We are going have some great TD pick ups:

    Phil Hughes

    Eric Chavez

    Soriano/Feliciano

    Jesus Montero

    Not bad, eh ?

    (P.S. As long as he isn’t injured I’ll take John Danks too).

    :)

  130. Triple Short of a Cycle May 31st, 2011 at 8:48 am

    So Boston is giving Lester extra rest after last night so now he will pitch against us next week. Shocker. I’m sure we will face Beckett as well

  131. Shame Spencer May 31st, 2011 at 8:55 am

    ^ Hopefully we take the series this time, since Boston’s pulled ahead of us.

  132. blake May 31st, 2011 at 8:56 am

    Yanks are actually back in first….

  133. Triple Short of a Cycle May 31st, 2011 at 8:59 am

    I never understood your rotation in the regular season when you play a certain team. Boston does it quite a lot. The Mets used to do it as well

  134. Shame Spencer May 31st, 2011 at 9:03 am

    Did they blake? I got confused with Boston’s double-header the other day.

  135. Ghostwriter May 31st, 2011 at 9:38 am

    Rich in NJ May 31st, 2011 at 7:32 am
    =============================================================
    Rich,
    I’ve noticed that you seem to have an annoying penchant for ignoring/discounting facts that don’t help your case, and resorting to begging the question arguments.
    First, you declare without any substantiation that there is no material deficit in Posada’s production, after I provided evidence of it. I’m sorry but evidence trumps unsubstantiated opinion, in my book. Make a case if you like, but contradiction isn’t much of an argument.

    Next, you drag in the non sequitur of OPS+ (really, just a fancy version of OPS). In addition to not providing any meaningfully different or salient information than OPS, OPS+ actually hurts your case! According to OPS, Posada was ranked second on LGY’s list of HoF catchers, and last, using OPS+.

    Next, you cite some ephemeral “conventional wisdom” that CS% is irrelevant. Proof? Sure, because you said so. I wonder if it is an idle coincidence that the 2 guys with the worst CS% also had the most passed balls. That must be the pitchers’ fault as well.

    Next, you misunderstood the Mattingly reference, and go into this digression about how their careers followed different arcs. You don’t like the Mattingly reference? Fine. Then fill in the blank with whichever near-great just-miss player you can find: Kaat or Munson will do just as well.

    Finally, you reference Posada’s “amazing” longevity as a catcher. I don’t know what “amazing means in this context. Compared to whom? If Posada played so long as a catcher, and had one of the highest OPS stats among HoF catchers, then why are his career aggregates so low compared to them? It seems to me like you’re running around in circles. Rich in NJ May 31st, 2011 at 7:32 am
    =============================================================
    Rich,
    I’ve noticed that you seem to have an annoying penchant for ignoring/discounting facts that don’t help your case, and resorting to begging the question arguments.

    First, you declare without any substantiation that there is no material deficit in Posada’s production, after I provided evidence of it. I’m sorry but evidence trumps unsubstantiated opinion, in my book. Make a case if you like, but contradiction isn’t much of an argument.

    Next, you drag in the non sequitur of OPS+ (really, just a fancy version of OPS). In addition to not providing any meaningfully different or salient information than OPS, OPS+ actually hurts your case! According to OPS, Posada was ranked second on LGY’s list of HoF catchers, and last, using OPS+.

    Next, you cite some ephemeral “conventional wisdom” that CS% is irrelevant. Proof? Sure, because you said so. I wonder if it is an idle coincidence that the 2 guys with the worst CS% also had the most passed balls. That must be the pitchers’ fault as well.

    Next, you misunderstood the Mattingly reference, and go into this digression about how their careers followed different arcs. You don’t like the Mattingly reference? Fine. Then fill in the blank with whichever near-great just-miss player you can find: Kaat or Munson will do just as well.

    Finally, you reference Posada’s “amazing” longevity as a catcher. Is that so? If he played so long as a catcher, and had one of the highest OPS stats among HoF catchers, then why are his career aggregates so low compared to them? This brings us full circle. And contrary to your protests: Posada is about 150 homers below Piazza, and about 100 homers below Berra, Bench, and Fisk. These are meaningful differences.

  136. Rich in NJ May 31st, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    Personal attacks are usually an admission of failure.

    Your convenience sample doesn’t prove anything.

    From B-B Ref with regard to Posada:

    Similar Batters through 38
    View Similar Player Links in Pop-up
    Compare Stats to Similars
    Carlton Fisk (886) *
    Gabby Hartnett (864) *
    Lance Parrish (854)
    Bill Dickey (817) *
    Benito Santiago (814)
    Ernie Lombardi (806) *
    Ken Caminiti (787)
    Gary Carter (782) *
    Jason Varitek (780)
    Sherm Lollar (780)
    * – Signifies Hall of Famer

    http://www.baseball-reference......038;age=38

  137. Ghostwriter May 31st, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    Rich in NJ May 31st, 2011 at 12:49 pm
    Personal attacks are usually an admission of failure.
    (SNIP)
    ==================================
    Well, you’re a half-right about that one. My post wasn’t a personal attack; rather it was a simple observation about the lacking substance of your posts on this subject. It was also an admission that it had grown tedious (and a little insulting) to have my arguments simply contradicted by fiat, without substantiation. I’m giving up on this conversation, because it’s going nowhere.

    Posting a series of what appear to be similarity indices doesn’t constitute a rebuttal of my argument. Neither does a simple contradiction declaring that my “convenience sample” (whatever that means) proves nothing. I’m tempted to go through your list, and demonstrate how each of the HoFers on the list has compelling cases beyond their OPS scores for their induction (hint: it has something to do with MVP awards and statistical aggregates), but I’m not going to bother. Suffice it to say that literally half of the guys on that list did not make the cut to make the Hall despite their statistical similarities. Why you are so certain that Posada is a slam dunk to wind up with the half that made it into the HoF, rather than with the guys that didn’t is beyond me. But you haven’t persuaded anybody that wasn’t predisposed to believe the same in the first place.

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