The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Regulars starting series opener

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on May 30, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Derek Jeter SS
Curtis Granderson CF
Mark Teixeira 1B
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Robinson Cano 2B
Russell Martin C
Jorge Posada DH
Nick Swisher RF
Brett Gardner LF

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160 Responses to “Regulars starting series opener”

  1. TheMacster May 30th, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    let’s go!!!

  2. TD213 May 30th, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    wallacematthews Yankees will be wearing hideous Memorial Day hats today

  3. Yogi Mantle May 30th, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    Wallace Matthews will be his usual hideous self.

  4. austinmac May 30th, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    GB,

    Thank you and others who faithfully and selflessly served our country and our people. I am sure you are thinking of some friends and compatriots no longer among us. May they rest in peace. I am not a particularly religious guy, but I am sure they do.

  5. Joe from Long Island May 30th, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    So, we go from reading a comment by Wallace Matthews about Memorial Day, and one by austinmac.

    Thank you, austinmac. I second your sentiment.

  6. Nick in SF May 30th, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    Happy Memorial Day.

    I will be at Yankee Stadium West this afternoon rooting on Bartolo Colon and the team.

    Enjoy the holiday and Go Yankees!

  7. Tar May 30th, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    “I noticed there was some discussion on Ichiro in a previous thread and thought some might find the article linked below interesting”

    Rosy

    Congrats on your series win.

    I commented on that play by Ichiro as it happened during the game thread. I agree he bailed out and showed no desire to get to it.

    I actually said something about not wanting to do a “Jeter”. (Who Rich thinks leads the world in getting free passes).

  8. BIG AL May 30th, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    GB7 -

    Have a great Memorial Day, and thanks for your service.

  9. Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Well, no Tar, that appellation would be reserved for some clueless politicians whose policies f’ed up the country, however, they shall will remain nameless here, but I will repost my reply to your post since you brought it up again:

    “Please elaborate.”

    He has had an OPS+ in two of his last three seasons that was at or below league average (91 in ’10 and 102 in ’08, which is far off his 118 career mark), and is turning 37 this season, yet he got and received a three to four year contract at huge money, after having asked for far more, and in effect authorized his agent to call the Yankees’ negotiating position “baffling.” Then, at the conclusion of the negotiations, he somehow complained about how he was treated.

    This contract makes it almost impossible to replace him even if the Yankees wanted to based on his performance.

    What was the stance of many fans during the negotiations? The Yankees were being unfair and should have given him even more money.

    v. RHP

    2011: .255 .295 .307 .602
    2010: .246 .316 .317 .633

    Yet he still bats leadoff and many fans defend that.

    Now, some of the free pass is because he is extremely smart, and TBH, lucky.

    He’s smart enough not to say anything even remotely controversial, and despite being, along with Bernie, one of the two most valuable Yankees of the 5 ring era.

    He has also been lucky enough to play on very talented teams (it’s not like the NBA where one player can carry a team on his back), so he is viewed being clutch and a winner, when much of that can be attributed to factors beyond his control.

    The point is that he should be viewed objectively, imo, and unlike with, for example, Posada, he often isn’t.

  10. BIG AL May 30th, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    How about those Twins and their outstanding pitching?

    Yes, they get so much more bang for the buck than our Yankees.

    So long as you like being a bottom feeder in the AL Central, lol.

  11. Ghostwriter May 30th, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    Tar May 30th, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    Ghost

    If the stakes were higher do you think he would have acted differently?

    Come to new thread.
    =================================================

    I don’t know. I haven’t seen him in enough games to have a real sense of what kind of competitor Ichiro is. In the playoffs, in a moment of crisis, if he thinks that he has a legitimate shot at making the play, then he really ought to go for it, for the good of the team. In May, I’m just not sure that it’s worth it.

  12. Tar May 30th, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    Rich

    Money, OPS, luck, batting lead-off are the reasons you provide for this statement.

    “No one gets more of a free pass than Jeter.”

    Really?

    I started to debate all your points than I realized that it is futile.

    We disagree.

  13. LGY May 30th, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    I will be at Yankee Stadium West this afternoon rooting on Bartolo Colon and the team.

    —–

    How can we identify you in the crowd?

  14. Tar May 30th, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    Ghostwriter

    I also mentioned in that game thread, (because somebody bought up your point) that I do not neccessarily blame Ichiro.

    But it sure does make me appreciate the player (doing a Jeter) that we have.

  15. Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    Tar

    I thought it was implied that since this is a baseball blog, the “world” discussed is implicitly the baseball world.

    My point is simply this: this is a business where players make huge bucks and owners make huger bucks (including accrual of equity). As such, the best players that money can buy and smarts can procure should be on the field at all times and sentiment should have nothing to do with it.

    But ok, fine.

  16. Ghostwriter May 30th, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    The point is that he should be viewed objectively, imo, and unlike with, for example, Posada, he often isn’t.

    ================================

    I’m not sure that either of these foregoing assertions are true.

    It’s not at all clear to me that players be viewed objectively. Obviously, a player’s performance should be viewed objectively, but I don’t see why subjectivity shouldn’t be allowed to creep into the calculus.

    And it certainly isn’t clear to me that Posada is not getting the benefit of a couple of hundred doubts. There seems to be a wealth of residual good will for Posada despite his lackluster performance this year, as well there should be. I think that he has earned that good will.

  17. West Coast Yankee Fan May 30th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Poada is getting the benefit of a thousand doubts. I doubt another DH on this team would be playing as much as he is if they were hitting .174 with a .292 OBP

  18. Tar May 30th, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    “My point is simply this: this is a business where players make huge bucks and owners make huger bucks As such, the best players that money can buy and smarts can procure should be on the field at all times ”

    “therin lies the rub”

    Who has made hugher bucks for the Yankees than Derel Jeter? Field play is just one factor involved.

    He is also the best player “at his position” that money could buy and smarts procure last year. Sentiment had nothing to do with those facts. As evidenced by Cashman and friends bizzaro negotiationing strategey.

    How about we drop it. :D

  19. Nick in SF May 30th, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    I’ll be wearing a Yankee hat, so the cameras will surely find me eventually.

  20. Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    “It’s not at all clear to me that players be viewed objectively. Obviously, a player’s performance should be viewed objectively, but I don’t see why subjectivity shouldn’t be allowed to creep into the calculus.”

    So are you prepared to win less because an aging player(s) sticks around even when he isn’t producing? Big contracts keep players around past the point of typical career annual output, sometimes way past.

    “And it certainly isn’t clear to me that Posada is not getting the benefit of a couple of hundred doubts. There seems to be a wealth of residual good will for Posada despite his lackluster performance this year, as well there should be. I think that he has earned that good will.”

    He’s pilloried here, and he has shown SLG batting LH. For some reason, Girardi batted him 9th for one game. What was the point?

    All I am asking for is a single, objective standard, uniformly applied.

    Of course, another question is why isn’t Posada the BUC. First, we heard it was concussions, but I have also read that after Cervelli got hurt, the Yankees asked him to be the BUC and he refused.

    We do know that Cervelli isn’t a ML catcher.

  21. West Coast Yankee Fan May 30th, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    A pink one right Nick?

  22. Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    “Who has made hugher bucks for the Yankees than Derel Jeter? Field play is just one factor involved.”

    He just finished a $190m contract, so I’m not sure that he hasn’t been fairly compensated. But the larger point is that they can give him as much money as they want when he retires, but why should they have to play him (or any player) longer than he is the best option available? Large contract usually force teams to do that.

    “He is also the best player “at his position” that money could buy and smarts procure last year. Sentiment had nothing to do with those facts. As evidenced by Cashman and friends bizzaro negotiationing strategey.”

    For one year? Maybe. For three or four, no way.

    Oh, please, the Yankees gave him far, far more than any other team offered.

    The market tests value, and the market was overwhelmingly on the Yankees’ side.

    “How about we drop it. ”

    I though you already had??????????? ;)

  23. J. Alfred Prufrock May 30th, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    REPOST

    J. Alfred Prufrock May 30th, 2011 at 1:42 pm
    Rich,

    Jeter used his leverage, as any other player would do.

    This bitterness toward Jeter regarding his contract is pretty tedious. You’ve already expressed it, we get it. Some here, can’t remember if you were among them, were advocating for a one-year deal. That’s how much of a “free pass” he gets; the dislike of him is so thick in certain quarters, that naive posts like that are expected to be received as thoughtful commentary.

    The return to something that is already moot makes you appear sulky. Why not write Cashman and Levine letters flagellating them with your displeasure? He’s the SS, he’s not going to be un-signed, you don’t get a do-over.

    What is it, exactly, you want people to do to this guy?

    How is he getting a “free pass”? Surely, not on this site, where a handful of people who take shots at him daily & when they’re in a game thread, and when he’s taking walks and getting hits as the leadoff hitter, they fall utterly silent; no “Way to go,” “Good AB,” etc. Just dead silence. That really speaks volumes, doesn’t it?

    He’s the leadoff hitter, for one thing, because they obviously don’t believe they have anyone else who would do a better job. Long range, Heathcott is his obvious successor, but he’s a couple of years away at least.

  24. Ghostwriter May 30th, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    “So are you prepared to win less because an aging player(s) sticks around even when he isn’t producing? Big contracts keep players around past the point of typical career annual output, sometimes way past….

    No, I’m not prepared to win less to accommodate aging players. Frankly, I don’t think that is the real choice. The Yanks in the past 10 years, or so, have done a nice job in phasing out the old guard while bringing in the new. The only real mistake that I think that they may have made was with A-Rod’s contract. Arguably, they also may have screwed up with Jeter’s contract. However, I don’t think that either of these contracts will keep the Yanks from making the moves that will maintain the team as a perennial contender.

    “He’s pilloried here, and he has shown SLG batting LH. For some reason, Girardi batted him 9th for one game. What was the point?…”

    I’m sorry, but this just sounds like sour grapes to me. EVERYBODY gets “pilloried” (as well as defended) here to varying degrees. Popsada is no different from Jeter.

    “All I am asking for is a single, objective standard, uniformly applied.”

    Impossible. The world is a little to complex for that kind of simplicity. And I personally wouldn’t have it any other way—the messiness of the world is part of its charm.

  25. BIG AL May 30th, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    Slade Heathcott is a CF, not a SS, so I doubt he’ll be replacing Jeter.

  26. LGY May 30th, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    He’s the leadoff hitter, for one thing, because they obviously don’t believe they have anyone else who would do a better job. Long range, Heathcott is his obvious successor, but he’s a couple of years away at least

    —–

    Wait. What? The Yankees have no one else on the team better suited to get the most PAs on the team and get on base for the big guns?

    He has the second lowest OBP on the team and long term (assuming the leash on Po is not much longer) is their worst hitter.

  27. Ghostwriter May 30th, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    Yeesh! My typing blows! I meant to say:

    “Impossible. The world is a little too complex for that kind of simplicity.”

  28. yankeefeminista May 30th, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    # BIG AL May 30th, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    Slade Heathcott is a CF, not a SS, so I doubt he’ll be replacing Jeter.
    ___
    Slade Heathcott as leaf-off leader not at SS was I believe the point. If Heathcott gets his K’s down, which we assume he will, he is a perfect lead-off hitter somewhere in our future (two years away, at least.)

  29. yankeefeminista May 30th, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    lead off *hitter* not leader

  30. Tar May 30th, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    “I though you already had????”

    IDK maybe I keep getting sucked back into the vortex.

    “The market tests value, and the market was overwhelmingly on the Yankees’ side.”

    Then why after playing hardball did they make the offer they did?

    The market is what one is willing to pay. The market Sets value.

    The Yankees set Derek Jeters market by offering him his contract.

  31. Ghostwriter May 30th, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    LGY May 30th, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    Wait. What? The Yankees have no one else on the team better suited to get the most PAs on the team and get on base for the big guns?

    He has the second lowest OBP on the team and long term (assuming the leash on Po is not much longer) is their worst hitter.

    ===========================================

    I guess that Gardner would be the obvious choice to replae Jeter as the leadoff hitter, but he hasn’t been performing well enough to supplant Jeter at this stage of the season. Gardner must do much better than Jeter to win the leadoff spot–0.10 of OBP isn’t going to be enough.

    Actually, I believe that Cano has the second-lowest OBP on the club. And I would say that Jeter is still a much stronger hitter than Swisher at this stage of the game.

  32. J. Alfred Prufrock May 30th, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    BIG AL May 30th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
    Slade Heathcott is a CF, not a SS, so I doubt he’ll be replacing Jeter.
    ///

    As a leadoff hitter, as per my post.

  33. GreenBeret7 May 30th, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    Mac and AL, I appreciate the kind words and thoughts. I thank you for me and all of the others. It’s just small words, but, the mean everything. It is our pleasure to represent the country and our people.

  34. randy l. May 30th, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    “How about those Twins and their outstanding pitching?

    Yes, they get so much more bang for the buck than our Yankees.”

    well, the cliburn bothers haven’t been the triple a manager and pitching coach for two years. i think the twins vastly underrated their impact on young players going through their system. the cliburn tandem spit out players every year to the big league team. the new guys, not so much.

    upon closer look i see that the twins starter era is 4.39 and the yankees starter era is 3.97.
    yankee starters are much closer to the rear than they are to the front of the teams leading in starter era.

    so yankee starting stats are a bit deceptive being closer to the bottom than they are to the top.

    relief pitching is what really separates yankee and twins era. the yankees are leading the league at 2.95era and the twins are at the bottom with a 5.59 era.

  35. Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    “Jeter used his leverage, as any other player would do.”

    Another word for used is exploit. So fine, view it for what it is, but with the sweet comes the bitter, and if you use your leverage and don’t perform you should expect criticism.

    “This bitterness toward Jeter regarding his contract is pretty tedious. You’ve already expressed it, we get it. Some here, can’t remember if you were among them, were advocating for a one-year deal. That’s how much of a “free pass” he gets; the dislike of him is so thick in certain quarters, that naive posts like that are expected to be received as thoughtful commentary.”

    Again, I’m not bitter, I’m sanguine.

    I just want to win and that means putting the best players on the field at all times, and giving young players a chance to establish themselves. The presence of aging, underproducing players who have large contracts often prevent that.

    “The return to something that is already moot makes you appear sulky. Why not write Cashman and Levine letters flagellating them with your displeasure? He’s the SS, he’s not going to be un-signed, you don’t get a do-over”

    I ddin’t bring this subject up, as you saw if you read the last thread. When it’s brought up, I have a right to respond, and I will.

    So the person sulking is you, who has trouble with ordinal aspects of posts and naively expects that there won’t be counterpoints imposed to any inaccurate point made.

    “How is he getting a “free pass”?”

    Asked an answered, on this thread.

  36. LGY May 30th, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    Hughes’ horribleness skews the Yankee starter stats.

  37. Nick in SF May 30th, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    “A pink one right Nick?”

    Very tacky comment.

    When will they learn? :(

  38. BIG AL May 30th, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    yankeefeminista May 30th, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    —————————

    Thanks, I misread the post.

  39. GreenBeret7 May 30th, 2011 at 2:42 pm

    Looks like the jackass from NJ is back to whining about Jeter’s offense and his contract again. Why don’t you go tell him your thoughts. I’m sure he’d show his appreciation about your feelings. a word of advice….take some straws along to use for your dinner. Typical of gutless wonders. I’m sure that if you had the chance to draw a paycheck, whether you deserved it or not. you wouldn’t say “NO!! I don’t deserve it.”

  40. BIG AL May 30th, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    Nick in SF -

    “A pink one right Nick?”

    Very tacky comment.

    When will they learn?
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    He must have been thinking of “his” team when he made that stupid comment.

  41. randy l. May 30th, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    “Hughes’ horribleness skews the Yankee starter stats.”

    yes, he had a very bad ten innings.

    they all count though.

    yankee management has to not get complacent with how well the patched up starting staff has pitched because things could go south pretty fast.

    i notice liriano has only given up 7 runs total in his last four starts.

    maybe he’s someone to think about.

  42. J. Alfred Prufrock May 30th, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    Jeter “exploited” Randy Levine?

    C’mon.

    It’s bitterness because you’re rehasing what’s done. I still don’t see anything that shows he gets a “free pass.” As for making way for young players, who? Nunez is already being conservatively integrated here & there, & he’s got real upside. Still, they probably think Culver is the heir, ultimately (haven’t seen him myself yet, so I can only go by scouting reports).

    Not a peep about Alex? Did he “exploit” the Yankees? No one else was paying Alex that money.

  43. BIG AL May 30th, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    randy l. -

    Do you think Liriano is a SP worth going after, considering his past injury history? I always had high praise for him as a pitcher, when healthy, but I fear every time we go after a pitcher like that we get “Pavano’d”.

  44. LGY May 30th, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    Russell Martin would be a good leadoff hitter.

  45. J. Alfred Prufrock May 30th, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    So the person sulking is you, who has trouble with ordinal aspects of posts and naively expects that there won’t be counterpoints imposed to any inaccurate point made.

    //
    Hey Rich, easy on the superiority complex. Your counterpoints haven’t been all that convincing. Your basic premise is Jeter “exploited” the Yankees, and that he should be set aside for younger, better talents. At leadoff, we don’t have that player – you’re assuming a lot that the player who should replace him there is in house. I don’t agree that he’s here, so your premise doesn’t fly unless someone else can do a better job. Who?

  46. Ghostwriter May 30th, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    “Another word for used is exploit.” Why point this out? What is gained from this observation?

    “I just want to win and that means putting the best players on the field at all times, and giving young players a chance to establish themselves. ”

    These objectives having the best players on the field at all times AND giving young players a chance to establish themselves are necessarily compatible and often mutually exclusive. Moreover, it is clear to me whom you think Jeter is holding back. Suppose Jeter were released tomorrow, then I suppose the Yanks would bat Gardner at leadoff and play Nunez at short. Does this make the Yanks demonstrably better than they are today? Does Nunez have a high enough upside that he is worth living through his growing pains?

  47. tomingeorgia May 30th, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    gb7, I’m always late to these posts. I mentioned at the end of the last one that I’ve got a bunch of pals’ names on the black granite of the VN memorial, most of them like ground pounders like me, but especially an old college buddy, John Martin from Montclair, NJ, a Navy F-4 pilot. They’re foremost on my mind today. A well-played Yankee victory today is the second thing on my mind.

  48. randy l. May 30th, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    rich in nj-

    what the yankees should do is let jeter get within a few hits of 3000 and sit his butt on the bench for months until he agrees to cancel the contract :)

    .. and while they at it sit’s alex’s butt on the bench so he doesn’t pile up any more stats either until he agrees to cancel his contract.

    just trying to help you rich :)

  49. Ghostwriter May 30th, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    EDIT:
    “Another word for used is exploit.” Why point this out?

    What is gained from this observation?

    “I just want to win and that means putting the best players on the field at all times, and giving young players a chance to establish themselves. ”

    These objectives having the best players on the field at all times AND giving young players a chance to establish themselves are not necessarily compatible and often mutually exclusive. Moreover, it is clear to me whom you think Jeter is holding back. Suppose Jeter were released tomorrow, then I suppose the Yanks would bat Gardner at leadoff and play Nunez at short. Does this make the Yanks demonstrably better than they are today? Does Nunez have a high enough upside that he is worth living through his growing pains?

  50. J. Alfred Prufrock May 30th, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    I guess that Gardner would be the obvious choice to replae Jeter as the leadoff hitter, but he hasn’t been performing well enough to supplant Jeter at this stage of the season. Gardner must do much better than Jeter to win the leadoff spot–0.10 of OBP isn’t going to be enough.

    ///
    He’s batting .244 with a .319 OBP against RHP. I have much more expectation that Jeter, who is driving the ball lately, is going to put up better numbers at leadoff than Gardner. Now, if Heathcott were knocking on the door, that would be a different story. But he’s not. Keeping Jeter there, even a fading Jeter, certainly looks like the team’s best option.

  51. randy l. May 30th, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    “Do you think Liriano is a SP worth going after, considering his past injury history? I always had high praise for him as a pitcher, when healthy, but I fear every time we go after a pitcher like that we get “Pavano’d”.”

    big al-

    i actually don’t know enough about liriano’s present arm situation, but the yankees are likely going to have to upgrade the second half of the year. liriano has to be someone to look at with the twins likely out of play off contention.

  52. joeman May 30th, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    as the season goes on Jeter’s bat will get better

  53. LGY May 30th, 2011 at 3:00 pm

    He’s batting .244 with a .319 OBP against RHP.

    —–

    Which is a lot better than Jeter.

  54. BIG AL May 30th, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    JAP -

    I don’t usually get into these kinds of discussions, but, I think flipping Jeter and Granderson would help produce more runs, since it appears there are more opportunities with RISP for Jeter than Granderson, with the way the line-up turns over. Perhaps it’s just the way I recall the games, perhaps one of the stat guys could tell us if I’m on the money, or out in LF.

  55. Ghostwriter May 30th, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock May 30th, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    I guess that Gardner would be the obvious choice to replae Jeter as the leadoff hitter, but he hasn’t been performing well enough to supplant Jeter at this stage of the season. Gardner must do much better than Jeter to win the leadoff spot–0.10 of OBP isn’t going to be enough.

    ///
    He’s batting .244 with a .319 OBP against RHP. I have much more expectation that Jeter, who is driving the ball lately, is going to put up better numbers at leadoff than Gardner. Now, if Heathcott were knocking on the door, that would be a different story. But he’s not. Keeping Jeter there, even a fading Jeter, certainly looks like the team’s best option.
    =================================

    I mostly tend to agree with you. Jeter does look like he’s on the verge of a bit of a hot streak. Nevertheless, I still think that Gardner is the better option at option at leadoff. My main point was that Jeter has the advantage of incumbency, and that for Gardner to supplant Jeter as the leadoff hitter, he must outperform Jete by a much wider margin than he has.

  56. LGY May 30th, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    Every week we hear Jeter is driving the ball more. Posada is driving the ball more.

    Yet their numbers do not get better. If those two were driving the ball as much as people on here say we would actually see some real improvement in their numbers.

  57. Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    “Jeter “exploited” Randy Levine? C’mon.”

    This is all semantics. In your words, Jeter used his leverage. To say he exploited his leverage is no different.

    But let’s look beyond the suit.

    Jeter is a powerful, rich (a greater net worth than Levine), accomplished, good looking guy, who hired an allegedly top flight agent.

    There is no dominant/servient position in terms of respective negotiating position, other than the lack of leverage Jeter had because what matters most, on the field performance, had faltered in his contract year.

    “It’s bitterness because you’re rehasing what’s done. I still don’t see anything that shows he gets a “free pass.” As for making way for young players, who? Nunez is already being conservatively integrated here & there, & he’s got real upside. Still, they probably think Culver is the heir, ultimately (haven’t seen him myself yet, so I can only go by scouting reports).”

    Again, you are demonstrating that you have a problem distinguishing between cause and effect.

    To review, on the other thread.

    That Rosy person linked something about Ichiro (which I didn’t read). WC posted something about some Yankee being similarly disrespected. I responded by asking if he was talking about Posada. He responded that it was about Jeter. That’s when I said he had received a free pass, because I think the facts are clear that he has.

    Over the off-season you called me passive-aggressive even though I was posting on an even keel and you were attacking me with personal insults from behind a computer screen, so the irony of your (mis)characterizations have already been demonstrated.

    As for Nunez, this isn’t about 2011. I have already said Jeter is their best option at SS for this season.

    But what about 2012 to possibly 2014? Are they going to pay a legend almost $20m a year to sit on the bench?

    “Not a peep about Alex? Did he “exploit” the Yankees? No one else was paying Alex that money.”

    Again, cause and effect and ordinal effects.

    So now that you have broached the subject, I will respond.

    If they can find a way to void his contract, do it.

    I don’t think anyone can reasonably argue that Alex has gotten any kind of a free pass in NY. In fact, some morons still call him unclutch even though the Yankees would not have won the WS in 2009 w/o his contributions.

    But one thing Alex. Because of the way he hits, he can decline and still may be able to have value at various positions. To this point, that’s not true of Jeter.

  58. BIG AL May 30th, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    randy l. -

    Its not how much money the Yankees spend on filling the needs a the TDL, but how they spend it. My hope is they go all out to improve the team, and not just apply bandaids, like last season.

  59. joeman May 30th, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    just checking out Granderson’s stats this year..he has more K’s than RBI’s and almost as many K’s than hits

  60. randy l. May 30th, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    rich in nj-

    i really think that if jeter has another bad year in 2011 like last year, he will seriously consider retiring and letting the rest of the contract go.

  61. Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    “Why point this out?

    What is gained from this observation?”

    Because it shows that JAP actually made my point for me.

    This is a business and Jeter used/exploited all he could for money. That’s the American way perhaps, but let’s be clear-eyed about what happened.

    It makes him just like everyone else, no better, no worse. But we often hear from some that he is more noble than other players. I don’t think it’s true.

    “These objectives having the best players on the field at all times AND giving young players a chance to establish themselves are not necessarily compatible and often mutually exclusive. Moreover, it is clear to me whom you think Jeter is holding back. Suppose Jeter were released tomorrow, then I suppose the Yanks would bat Gardner at leadoff and play Nunez at short. Does this make the Yanks demonstrably better than they are today? Does Nunez have a high enough upside that he is worth living through his growing pains?”

    1) Sometimes you have to take a step or a half a step back in order to take two steps forward.

    Young player often get better if patience is shown, aging players usually get worse.

    2) I said above it’s about 2012 and beyond.

  62. Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    randy

    If so, I owe you a drink.

  63. Ghostwriter May 30th, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    joeman May 30th, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    just checking out Granderson’s stats this year..he has more K’s than RBI’s and almost as many K’s than hits

    Why are Ks and RBIs a valid comparison?

    The Ks and hits comparison might be a little alarming IF I ddn’t know that he has an OPS of .982. In short, I think that we can live with im striking out 25 percent of the time, considering his overall production levels.

  64. J. Alfred Prufrock May 30th, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    BIG AL May 30th, 2011 at 3:01 pm
    JAP -

    I don’t usually get into these kinds of discussions, but, I think flipping Jeter and Granderson would help produce more runs, since it appears there are more opportunities with RISP for Jeter than Granderson, with the way the line-up turns over. Perhaps it’s just the way I recall the games, perhaps one of the stat guys could tell us if I’m on the money, or out in LF.
    ///

    The thing is, though, with Granderson’s power, I’d just as soon have him in a more traditional run production spot. I could see moving him down, though. Also, Jeter is walking lately. He’s got 5 BBs in his last 26 PAs and a .385 OBP.

  65. BIG AL May 30th, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    JAP -

    Good points, thanks.

  66. yankeefeminista May 30th, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    Jeter is batting .268/.350 in his last 12 games. If he doesn’t perform, he will eventually be moved off lead-off. He was actually not leading off vs. RHP, but the alternative wasn’t working and that is why he was moved back. No one is very interested in keeping Jeter as lead-off in the lineup if he isn’t performing. LoHud fallacy.

  67. MTU May 30th, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    Liriano has shoulder inflammation at the moment.

  68. MTU May 30th, 2011 at 3:15 pm

    GB-

    And before I forget.

    Thank you and all of our Soldiers for their service.

  69. BIG AL May 30th, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    MTU -

    Let me ask you, would you trade for Liriano, given his heath issues, both past and present? If yes, what level of prospects do you offer?

  70. randy l. May 30th, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    rich in nj-

    from jeter’s point of view, he’s not going to keep playing if he sucks. i just don’t see him doing it.
    will he battle until he knows for sure? yeah, i think he will, but i don’t expect to see him out there for four years of .250 hitting.

    if i were jeter i’d be asking bartolo about that stem cell therapy colon did. seriously.

  71. Tar May 30th, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    Rich

    Read the article. It’s about Ichiro not hustling, not demonstrating leadership qualities on the field, especially when compared to Olivio’s play.

    WCYF bringing up Jeter in that context was asinine. You falling in to his trap and posting “No one gets more of a free pass than Jeter” was also.

  72. J. Alfred Prufrock May 30th, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    I mostly tend to agree with you. Jeter does look like he’s on the verge of a bit of a hot streak. Nevertheless, I still think that Gardner is the better option at option at leadoff. My main point was that Jeter has the advantage of incumbency, and that for Gardner to supplant Jeter as the leadoff hitter, he must outperform Jete by a much wider margin than he has.
    ///

    Yea, I hear you. My issue is that Gardner is just too high maintenance: reluctance to steal even though that’s his way of turning singles into “doubles”, a swing that goes out of whack too often, platoon player essentially, etc. He doesn’t control the bat well enough to bunt consistently or to put the ball somewhere in the infield that can help him get to first. If they want to try him there during a “hot” streak that’s ok, but I just don’t see him being able to sustain those. Of course, they could always pull him back if he goes cold again. The irony is I don’t think Jeter would really lose sleep over being moved, but to me he’s still the best option. I expect him to continue to build on how he’s hitting lately.

  73. Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    Tar

    People have a right to respond to any subject that is brought up.

    But if name calling on the internet floats your boat, have at it. It’s not my thing.

  74. Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    “if i were jeter i’d be asking bartolo about that stem cell therapy colon did. seriously.”

    As I said, randy, as long as people are of age and not driving, I’m pro-drug.

  75. J. Alfred Prufrock May 30th, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    BIG AL May 30th, 2011 at 3:13 pm
    JAP -

    Good points, thanks.
    ///

    Yea I think your point makes sense too if our lineup goes back to being circular like it used to be. You’d have Grandy lead off as a power AND speed threat there.

  76. J. Alfred Prufrock May 30th, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    yankeefeminista May 30th, 2011 at 3:14 pm
    Jeter is batting .268/.350 in his last 12 games. If he doesn’t perform, he will eventually be moved off lead-off. He was actually not leading off vs. RHP, but the alternative wasn’t working and that is why he was moved back. No one is very interested in keeping Jeter as lead-off in the lineup if he isn’t performing. LoHud fallacy.

    …I don’t even think Jeter particularly cares.

  77. BIG AL May 30th, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    MTU -

    Did you fall off the computer?

  78. Niblick May 30th, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    Yankees AL ranking in OPS, by position in batting order:
    Order in lineup – Rank

    1st – 9
    2nd – 1
    3rd – 2
    4th – 5
    5th – 5
    6th – 12
    7th – 7
    8th – 1
    9th – 1

    Tells me they have the wrong guy leading off, and they’re wasting good batters hitting them 8th and 9th.

  79. yankeefeminista May 30th, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    Betances update:

    95 pitches, 65 strikes. He had too many full counts, especially in the first when he threw 29 pitches. However, Portland rarely K’s and likes to work the count. (Red Sox AA affiliate). The major damage done was a 2 run blast by Larvarnay, Portland’s masher. Kruml almost made the catch off the Maine monster, but knocked it over the wall. Betances’ line: 5.0IP 5H 3R 3ER 1BB 6K 1HR 1.82ERA K’s were 5 swinging, 1 caught looking, the latter on a changeup–(changeup at @85) No decision. Trenton leading, 6-4 bottom of the 8th.

    The one other XBH was a misplay in LF by Maruszak: it should have been a fly out, but Marsuszak misjudged it, came in and then couldn’t go back to catch the ball.

    From what I could gauge, Betances was sitting 91-95, with a good number of 93′s and 94′s. He gave up the homerun to Larvarnay on a 3-1 FB, but the next time Betances faced Larvarnay, instead of throwing a FB on a 3-2 count, he struck Larvarnay out on a 12-6 curveball.

  80. MTU May 30th, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    Al-

    He wouldn’t be all that high up on my list.

    If the Yankees were to go for him I wouldn’t offer any of our A prospects (Banuelos, Montero,or Betances).

  81. J. Alfred Prufrock May 30th, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Rich in NJ May 30th, 2011 at 3:09 pm
    “Why point this out?

    What is gained from this observation?”

    Because it shows that JAP actually made my point for me.

    This is a business and Jeter used/exploited all he could for money. That’s the American way perhaps, but let’s be clear-eyed about what happened.

    It makes him just like everyone else, no better, no worse. But we often hear from some that he is more noble than other players. I don’t think it’s true.

    ///
    You used “exploit” pejoratively, so all you proved is that you have some moral problem with a guy getting the best deal for himself. Not the “clear-eyed” view of seeing it as business for him.

  82. J. Alfred Prufrock May 30th, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    yankeefeminista May 30th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
    Betances update:

    95 pitches, 65 strikes. He had too many full counts, especially in the first when he threw 29 pitches. However, Portland rarely K’s and likes to work the count. (Red Sox AA affiliate). The major damage done was a 2 run blast by Larvarnay, Portland’s masher. Kruml almost made the catch off the Maine monster, but knocked it over the wall. Betances’ line: 5.0IP 5H 3R 3ER 1BB 6K 1HR 1.82ERA K’s were 5 swinging, 1 caught looking, the latter on a changeup–(changeup at @85) No decision. Trenton leading, 6-4 bottom of the 8th.

    The one other XBH was a misplay in LF by Maruszak: it should have been a fly out, but Marsuszak misjudged it, came in and then couldn’t go back to catch the ball.

    From what I could gauge, Betances was sitting 91-95, with a good number of 93?s and 94?s. He gave up the homerun to Larvarnay on a 3-1 FB, but the next time Betances faced Larvarnay, instead of throwing a FB on a 3-2 count, he struck Larvarnay out on a 12-6 curveball.
    ///

    Great report, YF. I listened to it on radio. The Portland kids do seem to have patience up and down the lineup. I like when Dellin & Manny face them because they are really forced to work on their command & work from the stretch for a change.

    Next up for Betances is Toronto’s team. I don’t remember if Manny misses them by a game or not. In any case, I’ll be at Waterfront for that one, barring something unforseen.

  83. Tar May 30th, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    Rich

    I didn’t mean to imply the person or persons were asinine. Simply that I thought his and your follow up statements were. Especially given the context of the article in question.

  84. michaels07 May 30th, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    who should lead off Minka Kelly or Derek?

  85. BIG AL May 30th, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    MTU -

    That was my thoughts as well, perhaps 2 “B” level prospects, nothing more. One of the prospects would need to be a C, perhaps Romine, or he and Cervelli.

  86. MTU May 30th, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    Al-

    I’m concerned about Liriano’s long term health.

    I think Romine is going to be a pretty good catcher.

    I’m even reluctant to give him up for Liriano.

    I agree with you no higher than B prospects.

  87. yankeefeminista May 30th, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    A Matsui sighting! Konnichiwa, Matsui-san. You are missed!

    Memorial Day tribute on YES. Happy Memorial day, GB7, fellow LoHudders, my dad and mom and everyone else who has served or is serving!

  88. BIG AL May 30th, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    Mike -

    I’m going to walk the mops, and sit back and watch the game. It’s so hot here, I don’t look forward to taking that walk, but, you do what you need to. All week it’ll be 96-100 degrees here, and it’s still spring.

    Have a good day, maybe I’ll catch you later, if its safe to venture on.

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