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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Joba has torn ligament

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jun 09, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Joba Chamberlain is almost certainly heading for surgery with a torn ligament in his right elbow. Joe Girardi said he doesn’t know how Chamberlain could avoid surgery.

The problem was discovered in a dye contrast MRI today. Girardi said Chamberlain has no symptoms, and has passed every strength test. The Yankees don’t know when this happened or how long he’s had it.

The good news for the day: Phil Hughes threw 30 pitches today and was 90-92 mph.

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522 Responses to “Joba has torn ligament”

  1. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    Terrible news.

  2. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    “The Yanks did the right thing signing Jorge, even for 4 years. He was coming off a great season and there was no one close to him. Overall, the Yanks got their money’s worth, even with the injuries and the 4th year.”

    —————–

    Jorge has caught only 205 games during his contract.

    His contract has been really bad.

  3. Warning Track Power June 9th, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    OMG! What is going on this year?
    Tommy John means Joba will be out for at least 18 months.

    I’m in shock. Can not believe the terrible news.

  4. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    Colon came in on a spring training / minor league invite. They could have had aceves AND colon. They were not mutually exclusive. That is an imagined problem, if they simply did not non-tender aceves he would make like 600k and they could have optioned him if they wanted or Dled him.

  5. Erin June 9th, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    :(

    Poor Joba.

  6. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    How could this be?

    He’s built to be a reliever!!

  7. Bryan June 9th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    uggghhhhhhhhh

  8. blake June 9th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    Terrible…..awful news.

  9. Erin June 9th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    At least there’s good news on Hughes.

  10. I Like Inge June 9th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    Damn, Joba is down for a year +. Yankees need pen help. Might want to think about Hughes setting up for the rest of the year once he comes back from rehab.

  11. G-C June 9th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    Terrible, Terrible, Terrible news.

    Hard to believe. I feel sick.

  12. Warning Track Power June 9th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    At least Hughes is making progress.

    Joba threw that beautiful curve to strike out Howie Kendrick over the weekend and now he needs TJ surgery.

    Something is not quite right!!

  13. blake June 9th, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    Well they have all the time in the world to rehab him as a starter now if they want.

  14. Erin June 9th, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    JoeAuriemmaYES Joe says Joba must have high pain threshold.

  15. Joe from Long Island June 9th, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    How ironic. For all the grief that Joba has taken over the past couple of years, his going on the DL is now a big deal, and a real loss for the team. It’s a shame. The guy was finally showing the consistency that everyone wanted. Tough break. See ya in 2013, Joba.

    I think they now need to get a longterm replacement for the late innings. May not be able to trade for one, so it might be the time to try some of the youngsters. Tim Norton, maybe? GB, what do you think?

  16. Warning Track Power June 9th, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Hughes as a set-up man! Ya know what, sounds great on paper, but I wonder if the Yankees would actually make that move.
    Not sure that move is in the best interest of Hughes.

  17. blake June 9th, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Joba was just starting to find his way…..and now this……unreal.

  18. cs in la June 9th, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Bad news comes in bunches. Let’s hope that’s the last of it.

  19. LockDown June 9th, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    WOW. Our bullpen was supposed to be the best BP in baseball and now Joba is down too. (Soriano & feliciano DL)

    I feel so bad for Joba :(

  20. ac1 June 9th, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Well i guess the Joba to the rotation debate can be tabled.
    Wow.

  21. Yank 97 June 9th, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    Feliciano, Soriano, and Joba – our 3 best SU relievers all gone, 2 probably for the season.

    Better hope all the “dry humps” don’t catch up to Robertson in the late summer either. This sucks.

  22. cs in la June 9th, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    We won’t see Joba in a Yankee uniform again.

  23. SoS June 9th, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Att Cashman. Time to make a call to the windy city and get wood back.

    Jerkface,
    Hughes is throwing 90-92? Isnt that what his problem was to begin with? He no longer could get to the mid 90′s and was throwing 90 mile an hour meatballs.

  24. Bryan June 9th, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    even the innings limits haven’t prevented Hughes and Joba from having arm issues

  25. Warning Track Power June 9th, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    hard to be the best bullpen when 3 very important pieces can not even pitch due to injury.

    i feel sick.

    Joba has taken a lot of abuse(most undeserved) and now this injury does nothing for
    his progress.

    i think about Joe Nathan and how the twins had to play without him.
    this is a serious injury that takes 1 year and then some to recover from

  26. upstate kate June 9th, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    :( he was having such a great year :(

  27. ac1 June 9th, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Time to go find the relief that other teams will be dumping at the deadline.

  28. blake June 9th, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Lot of elbows popping this year ….

  29. ZachA June 9th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Phil Hughes — our new setup man?

  30. Wave Your Hat June 9th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    “Colon came in on a spring training / minor league invite. They could have had aceves AND colon. They were not mutually exclusive. That is an imagined problem”

    I disagree JF. If the Yanks had believed in Aceves they wouldn’t have been looking for a Colon.

  31. Howard June 9th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Again, this guy has been injured since Nebraska. This is a huge blow. A month ago, on paper anyhow, the Yankees had an amazing bullpen.

    They BETTER NOT put Hughes back in the pen when he gets back because they ‘have a need there’.

    Francessa says Huges to the bullpen is consideration by the Yankee front office as of now.

  32. Erin June 9th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    JoeAuriemmaYES Tommy John surgery is a year at least. However Joba just had minor symptoms.

  33. Irreverent Discourse June 9th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Joba? Tommy John? You mean throwing 90mph sliders is a bad idea?

    Weird.

  34. Warning Track Power June 9th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Bryan-If you ask me, arm injuries can not be prevented. Some pitchers don’t have the shoulder/arm/elbow that another pitcher might have-See Nolan Ryan or Clemens, etc….

    Its a crapshoot. I don’t think putting an innings limit on players that have finally reached the big leagues is that much of a factor.

  35. Joe from Long Island June 9th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Phil should be starting. Number one, they will need him. Freddy has shown that he’s like Darrell Rasner, and Dustin Moseley – he needs pinpoint control in order to win. No margin for error. That’s not too conducive to playoff-level baseball.

    Number two – Phil’s long term future is as a starter, and putting him in the pen only delays that another year.

    I really feel down about this, for the team, and for Joba. He must have one heck of a pain threshold.

  36. Erin June 9th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    JoeAuriemmaYES Joe still didn’t know if Joba was going to see Dr. James Andrews. More info to come on that.

  37. ZMAN June 9th, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Bring up Flores, Norton, Whelen, Kontos and try them all out.

    No longer can they afford to carry mop up men like Sanit, Marquez, Carlyle, Ayala, Pendleton, Logan, etc.

    If not, they will either lose a ton of games late the rest of the way or burn out Robertson by the ASB.

  38. Howard June 9th, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Joba is done. He has officially been put through so many ringers in this system, most undeserved, and now this. It’s very sad.

  39. SoS June 9th, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    What about Whelan?

    Didnt Joba fall to us in the draft because of arm problems? Cant recall if it was him or Kennedy.

  40. Wave Your Hat June 9th, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    The Yanks have to trust their top minor league talent. Instead of Marquez, Sanit, Pendleton and crew it’s time to see Mitchell, Phelps, Whelan, and maybe Betances in a month or so, in the pen.

    I think the talent is there if the Yanks use it.

  41. Howard June 9th, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    Joba? Tommy John? You mean throwing 90mph sliders is a bad idea?

    90mph sliders are fine, if your arm can handle it, which apparently, his cannot.

  42. Warning Track Power June 9th, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    Howard-
    I’m sure the Yankees will consider all their options regarding Hughes.
    Yes there is a HUGE need in the pen.
    Someone like Hughes is a better option compared to relying on Colon or Nova out of the pen.
    Garcia in the pen is not even an option. He would fail.

    Considering the choices, Hughes would be the logical choice because of the need.

  43. Against All Odds June 9th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    SMMFH

  44. Howard June 9th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    Didnt Joba fall to us in the draft because of arm problems? Cant recall if it was him or Kennedy.

    Yes, he was hurt coming out of Nebraska

  45. Joe from Long Island June 9th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    Sos – I wouldn’t be too concerned about Phil’s velocity now. He’s not pitched in a long time, so he needs to build up some arm strength.

  46. ZMAN June 9th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    “Phil Hughes — our new setup man?”

    If he comes back and doesn’t look like he did in the first half last year, that might be the next step.

  47. SoS June 9th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    JoeAuriemmaYES Joe still didn’t know if Joba was going to see Dr. James Andrews. More info to come on that.

    =========

    He does know hes the Manager right? Or did he lose his stripes to Posada. How does he not know whats going on? Maybe its time Pena relieved him.

  48. Erin June 9th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    Dante19jr Just finished my work in the batting cages. And checkout what was brought to me! http://t.co/FU7cE2s

  49. Warning Track Power June 9th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    Howard June 9th, 2011 at 4:15 pm
    Joba is done. He has officially been put through so many ringers in this system, most undeserved, and now this. It’s very sad.
    ************************
    WRONG! Its very possible to return and pitch at a higher level after TJ surgery. Its been done many, many times.
    The problem is his return is more than a year away. That is a bitter pill

  50. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    Joba? Tommy John? You mean throwing 90mph sliders is a bad idea?

    90mph sliders are fine, if your arm can handle it, which apparently, his cannot.

    —————–

    Doesn’t help that he has been jerked around so much and pushed into a reliever role despite being a starter his whole life.

  51. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    Hughes is throwing 90-92? Isnt that what his problem was to begin with? He no longer could get to the mid 90?s and was throwing 90 mile an hour meatballs.

    No he averaged like 89 mph this year. 90-92 is a good start. He only averaged 92 mph last year. That means 91-93. 90-94. He doesn’t need mid-90s

  52. Triple Short of a Cycle June 9th, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    They need to bring Joba back as a starter

  53. Against All Odds June 9th, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    LOL @ Francesa thinking the Yankees will offer top prospects for K-Rod and Beltran

  54. G. Love June 9th, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    Ugh.

  55. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    Tim Norton was put on the DL today.

  56. I Like Inge June 9th, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    Hughes to the pen makes sense. The season is done with only D-Rob and Mo shutting down games.

  57. G-C June 9th, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    The pen can be patched together.

    Ayala’s stuff has looked pretty good. Robertson and Mo are still the best 8th-9th tandem in baseball.

    Its time to give Whelan and Norton looks.

    Hughes in the pen would be so unbelievably moronic that I can’t even believe its being discussed in this forum.

    Sorry for being abrasive, but this stupid bullpen crap is the same reason we just lost Joba, maybe for forever, and you guys want to take a starting pitcher and reconvert him to a reliever where he has to pitch on irregular rest multiple times a week.

    Forgive me because I’m really pissed, but that’s just not logical at all.

  58. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    I disagree JF. If the Yanks had believed in Aceves they wouldn’t have been looking for a Colon.

    I disagree with your disagreement. The yankees bring in lots of guys on invites just to check them out. They already were looking into Colon because of Pena, and with Aceves uncertain injury trouble they would have brought in a lot of options.

    Remember we had like 5 guys competing for 1 spot in 2010. Much less competition this year.

  59. Howard June 9th, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    Considering the choices, Hughes would be the logical choice because of the need.

    I agree with this, but again, you’re taking a guy who won 18 games as a starter, faltered a little bit, and moving him BACK to the pen. He’s a valuable starter and they should leave it at that.
    Do you think the the Sox would move Buchholz to the pen? I only draw those two because they’ve been so closely linked their entire careers.
    A need can be filled by outside sources. Moving him back to the pen, after he’s already been on the DL with an arm issue just doesn’t make sense to me when the second half will feature a lot of road games, a couple starters who are akin to not going deep, and a need for multiple pen guys, not juse one.
    IMO, bring up the young guys to the pen, clear the garbage off the 40man, and leave Hughes in the rotation.

  60. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    Tim Norton just pitched yesterday and now he is on the DL? He really is better than Joba at everything.

  61. SoS June 9th, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    It just goes to show you how much of a freak of nature MO is.

  62. Hassey June 9th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    I just put myself on the DL with a broken heart and a broken spirit…activiate me again in Spring Training 2014

  63. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    I wouldn’t put Hughes in the pen, I’d put Nova in the pen and make him a fastball-slider pitcher. And I’d look into guys like Norton/Whelan/Trades.

  64. 12345 June 9th, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    And then there is 6-3, 230-pound Tim Norton, a 28-year-old righthander whom the Yankees took on the seventh round of that 2006 draft out of the U. of Connecticut.

    Norton wasn’t on anyone’s radar this spring, primarily because he missed the last half of last season with a back injury. But he’s completely overmatching Eastern League batters at Trenton (1.67 ERA, 41K, 6 walks in 27 IP as of Friday), prompting another scout to proclaim: “This kid, for me, is the best complete pitching prospect in their organization. He’s a big strong kid who throws 93-95 and can locate. Plus he throws a really ‘hard’ ball. My only question about him is why are they leaving him in Double A? He’s better than Chamberlain right now.”

  65. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    Donnie Collins just said on twitter he is trying to find out why Norton was placed on the DL.

    He just found out about it a few minutes ago.

  66. Howard June 9th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    WRONG! Its very possible to return and pitch at a higher level after TJ surgery. Its been done many, many times.

    I do agree with you. Guys who are willing to do the work, the rehab, intense physical conditioning, and patience filled muscle rebuilding programs before even picking up a baseball are all candidates to rebound nicely. Does Joba seem to have any of those qualities, or is he gonna sit around and get bigger?
    I’ve always been a huge Joba guy, and really dislike they way the organization has jumped him around, but I don’t see him doing what’s necessary to return to where he was a month ago. He never has. Just my opinion is all, and hopefully it’s wrong.

  67. SoS June 9th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    Jerkface,
    Thanks for the info. Wasnt aware that Hughes fastball last year was avging 92. I thought he was in the low 90′s in this years struggles. I guess it is good news. Thoughts on Nova to the pen when Hughes gets back?

  68. Wave Your Hat June 9th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    “I disagree with your disagreement.”

    :) I shall refrain from the obvious comeback.

  69. Nick in SF June 9th, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    Norton to the DL?

    Move on to Norris.

  70. Bad Scooter June 9th, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    I know Joba was throwing 95 and 96 at times this year, but who knows how long he has had this issue since he hasn’t had much pain. He could’ve had for awhile now. It might explain why he’s lost a few ticks on his FB. Maybe not.

  71. G. Love June 9th, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    I feel horrible for Joba. That said, TJ surgery isn’t the end. He can come back and have the same velocity if he works hard at rehab. Hopefully, it’s just the elbow and the shoulder is still OK. Maybe the rest for the Shoulder will help that situation long term.

    I do not think this is the end of his Yankee career by a longshot.

    I wish him luck.

    This sucks.

  72. Howard June 9th, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    Norton is on the DL?

  73. G. Love June 9th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Can Tito Calver pitch? What about Romaine?

  74. Against All Odds June 9th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    # Triple Short of a Cycle June 9th, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    They need to bring Joba back as a starter

    ———————————————————

    What’s the point

    He’s not going to start for this club again and they put him in the pen because the felt he couldn’t hold up as a starter

  75. SoS June 9th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    lol NSF.

    Whos your money on tonight? Over/Under for Lebron is 26.

  76. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    In Hughes last start his max speed was 90 mph average of 89
    In his final 2010 start his max speed was 93.8 and average was 91.8

    So gaining back those 2 mph is important first step

  77. Purenyyankee June 9th, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    That’s a huge loss. Time for Soriano to suck it up. Also time for Cash-Man to wake up and get Montero up here. Cervelli catching again tonight.with Chavez pretty much done too, make a move, Brian.get some of these kids up here.

  78. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    They should seriously rehab Joba as a starter. There is no harm in doing it and if it works out great and if not he can simply go back to the pen or be traded.

  79. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    Jaba is a relievah!!

    The Hair to Mo!!

  80. SoS June 9th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    I bet Chuck Norris would never be seen on the DL wiith that high tech workout machine him and Christie Brinkley use religiously.

  81. G-C June 9th, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    I feel worse for Joba personally than I do for this team and organization.

    They’ve been inviting this situation since they starting jerking him around years ago.

    The good thing is, ladies and gentlemen, that David Robertson and Mariano Rivera are STILL the best 8th-9th inning duo in baseball right now.

    Luis Ayala is a pretty good pitcher too. He’s been good this year and he hasn’t done it on smoke and mirrors, as he’s got 14 strikeouts in 18 innings. His stuff has also looked pretty strong.

    Honestly, the Yankees best bet may be to hope that Boone Logan starts to show some consistency and flashes of what he offered last year. They need to stop using him as a LOOGY and be willing to trust him in full inning situations. He’s not a LOOGY.

  82. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    The Yanks have to trust their top minor league talent. Instead of Marquez, Sanit, Pendleton and crew it’s time to see Mitchell, Phelps, Whelan, and maybe Betances in a month or so, in the pen.

    I think the talent is there if the Yanks use it.

    —————–

    Seriously. WTF is Cashman doing?

  83. Hassey June 9th, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    Too late to get back Jesee Orosco?

  84. Chip June 9th, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    Started and hurt his shoulder, relieved and blew out his elbow…

    Hughes in the meantime gets a deadarm because he’s been throwing more than he did in the minors at any point.

    Perhaps the Yankees should keep this in mind while they are working Banuelos and Betances and basically limiting them to four inning starts. Let them pitch, let them build up strength instead of coddling them and getting their bodies conditioned to short outings and then get them hurt when they’re asked to adopt to a major league work load.

  85. RS June 9th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    This should be the Yankees plan:

    Hughes to the rotation, Noesi to the bullpen as a 1-2 inning reliever, call up talented pitchers to take the place of Pendleton/Sanit/Marquez, trade for a starter and reliever (preferably a lefty) at the deadline

    Best case scenario, they make the playoffs and have this pitching staff:
    Sabathia
    Hughes
    Colon
    Burnett
    traded starter

    Rivera
    Soriano
    Robertson
    traded reliever (Bell, KRod, whoever)
    Ayala
    Noesi
    Garcia as long man

  86. Triple Short of a Cycle June 9th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    Anyone know if Yu Darvish will be posted next year?

  87. ac1 June 9th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    Agree that when Joba comes back it should be as a starter.
    No to Hughes in the pen, and the only way i would put Betances or Banuelos in the pen is in September, after the season and make it clear to them to use ALL of their pitches, and not to fall in love with one or two, like Hughes did.

  88. Purenyyankee June 9th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    How about waking up and getting Whelan on the damn 40 man roster.

  89. Against All Odds June 9th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    I do not think this is the end of his Yankee career by a longshot.

    ———————————–

    you’re one of the few that don’t think that

  90. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    Anyone know if Yu Darvish will be posted next year?

    Rumored to be

  91. SoS June 9th, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    I cant believe this thread has lasted this long without someone coming out and saying “damn!! I knew we should have traded him while his stock was high!!”

  92. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    In the long term the Yankee bullpen is fine if Soriano can get back healthy.

    Mo-DRob-Soriano is more than enough at the back of the bullpen.

    But Soriano’s health is a big ????

  93. ac1 June 9th, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    Jaba is a relievah!!

    The Hair to Mo!!

    __

    Thinking Robertson has a better show as the next closer than Joba.

  94. Vineyard Yankee June 9th, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    WFAN just confirmed Yoba is on his way to see Andrews to schedule the TJ surgery.

  95. SoS June 9th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Arent Betances and Banuelos struggling with their control this year? Why would we put them in the bullpen? We already have Logan doing a fine job walking men in.

  96. Triple Short of a Cycle June 9th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Chip,

    I agree. Brakman seems like a lost cause already. Who knows what will happen with Betances and Banuelos. Will we ever develop another number 1 or 2 starter?

  97. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    TJS isn’t the end of everything and they can option Joba to the minors before putting him on the 60 day to halt his service time. They will still control him for 2-3 years.

  98. Triple Short of a Cycle June 9th, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    Jerkface,

    You think we should go all in if he does get posted? I do

  99. SoS June 9th, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    What would it take to get Bell from S.D.? Maybe try to catch lightning in a bottle and see if Soria can get fixed?

  100. Yankee Trader June 9th, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    I can’t find any news on Tim Norton’s injury.

    From Yesterday:
    The “Silent Assassin” used his mid-90?s fastball to allow just 12 hits in 29 innings of work with Trenton, posting a spotless 1.55 ERA in 22 appearances. He struck out 44 and walked just eight in 29 innings, and held the opposition to just a .124 average against.

    28 years old, the time is now for Norton. Injuries have sidetracked him throughout his career, and this season marked the first since he’d been drafted in 2006 that he’d broken camp healthy. He picked up right where he left off in Trenton last season, having allowed just one run in his ten innings of work before being sidelined with an injury to his side.

    The fireballer picked up the win in his first appearance with Scranton tonight, allowing one hit and striking out two in a scoreless eighth inning of work. Kevin Whelan got the save, spinning a scoreless ninth for his 18th save of the season.

    Mike Ashmore, mashmore98 AT gmail.com

  101. Irreverent Discourse June 9th, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    I don’t think Hughes velocity is all that important, he didnt have enough stamina to pitch 3 innings and thats what was killing him. He should be able to pitch with a 90mph fastball, if he can’t then he’s an awful pitcher.

  102. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    Norton just pitched yesterday and they DLed him and then activated Noesi, so I think this has to be a paperwork thing?

  103. Erin June 9th, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    RiverAveBlues RT @PeterBotte: Joba: “Aw man, this sucks, no way to sugarcoat it. Totally wasn’t expecting this.” Still insists he has “no pain” in elbow.

  104. Irreverent Discourse June 9th, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    SoS – There is little wrong with Soria and he has already reclaimed the closer role.

    I would rather try to pry Mike Adams from the Padres than Bell.

  105. Howard June 9th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    In his final 2010 start his max speed was 93.8 and average was 91.8

    Eh, that “end of 2010″ season wasn’t exactly a bright spot for him, and in his last start, he threw exactly 1.0 inning.

    Phil was very mediocre the second half.
    He was 7-6 with a 4.94era with half as many K’s as the first half.
    Also, the league hit about .270 against him.
    Him learning to pitch is more important than those few mph on his fastball.

  106. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    I don’t think Hughes velocity is all that important, he didnt have enough stamina to pitch 3 innings and thats what was killing him. He should be able to pitch with a 90mph fastball, if he can’t then he’s an awful pitcher.

    Hughes needs his velocity to generate swings and misses.

  107. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    swbyankeesTT
    SWB has placed Tim Norton on the disabled list. Hector Noesi has been activated. Norton threw a scoreless inning last night. Looked good.
    22 minutes ago

    swbyankeesTT
    Justin Maxwell just walked into PNC Field in a sling. I have heard he had surgery today on that right shoulder.
    1 minute ago

  108. ac1 June 9th, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    Is anyone on our team or farm system not injured?

  109. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    In his final 2010 start his max speed was 93.8 and average was 91.8

    Eh, that “end of 2010? season wasn’t exactly a bright spot for him, and in his last start, he threw exactly 1.0 inning.

    Phil was very mediocre the second half.
    He was 7-6 with a 4.94era with half as many K’s as the first half.
    Also, the league hit about .270 against him.
    Him learning to pitch is more important than those few mph on his fastball.

    I used the velocity data from his last START , not when he made a 1 IP relief appearance. And Hughes had plenty of good games in the second half, including that last start and against the Twins. Not really going to get into Hughes argument again, but the 4.94 ERA is deceptive. He got blasted a few times, but generally kept the team in the game, and overall had a good year for his first full year starting, and was no slouch in the ALDS.

  110. Nick in SF June 9th, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    SoS: my money’s on the Yankees tonight!

    Is there some other game? :mad:

    (LeBron under 6.5 points 4th quarter?)

  111. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    PeterBotte
    Joba is sending MRI results to Andrews but not visiting him yet. Said he “shed a few tears” when told diagnosis, “but I’m not giving up.”
    2 minutes ago

  112. HipHipHorHay June 9th, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    Hassey – I appreciate good gallows humor. And that’s good gallows humor.

  113. Triple Short of a Cycle June 9th, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    Howard,

    a near 5 ERA is hardly mediocre. He was mediocre after the first 2 months of the season

  114. Irreverent Discourse June 9th, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    jerkface – If he needs 92 instead of 90 to generate swings and misses, then he needs to learn how to be a more complete pitcher. Plenty of pitchers get by with less.

    It’s really more about his stamina right now.

  115. ac1 June 9th, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    Maxwell and Curtis out?
    We are so thin in position depth too.
    I think its time…

    Call KC and get Melky back!!!
    He will be so happy to be home that he will play off the charts.

  116. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Triple: The Yankees have sent Oppenheimer and that other guy whose name slips my mind but is the young up and comer scout guy to Japan to check out Darvish, I think they will go all in on him. I like him a lot. Tall, lithe, with good stuff, better command than Matsuzaka, better everything.

    Matsuzaka had a lot of potential derailed by crappy command, and he showed in 08 what he could do if things broke right for him. Not saying Yu would pitch a 2 ERA in the MLB, but I think he can be a solid starter. Need to save him from the high pitch counts of the NPB. Rescue that man!

  117. Chip June 9th, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    It’s a methodology thing.

    The Yankees baby Hughes and Joba and both end up being (to this point) injury plagued and not living up to their potential.

    I get the impression 4 years from now we’ll be having the same discussion about Betances, Brackman and Banuelos.

    Once again I’ll ask…how is Nardi Contreras qualified to run an organization’s pitching program?

  118. Hassey June 9th, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    move Swisher back to the bullpen?

  119. Yankee Trader June 9th, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    SoS.-

    You think the Padre GM, Jed Hoyer,[previous assistant to Theo Epstein] will trade Heath Bell to the Yankees?

    Any word on Feliciano’s progress?

    If at all possible, Hughes should go back to the rotation, even if it takes longer to get him ready. Relievers will be easier to replace.

  120. Purenyyankee June 9th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    Can we get Buddy Carlyle or Pendleton off the 40 man roster and get Kevin Welan on please.

  121. SoS June 9th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    This a good time to fire the strength and conditioning coach and whoever hires the strength and conditioning coaches. This is getting ridiculous. If this keeps on going the way it is we might have to use Swisher in the pen soon.

  122. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    It’s a methodology thing.

    The Yankees baby Hughes and Joba and both end up being (to this point) injury plagued and not living up to their potential.

    ——————–

    Except the Yankees didn’t baby Hughes and Joba.

  123. SoS June 9th, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    NSF,
    We need to change those T SHIRT sales from Generation Trey to I AM ONE.

  124. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    jerkface – If he needs 92 instead of 90 to generate swings and misses, then he needs to learn how to be a more complete pitcher. Plenty of pitchers get by with less.

    It’s really more about his stamina right now.

    Dude, a swing and miss fastball is one of his primary tools that allowed him to succeed in the majors. Its not something you just take away and tell him to deal with it. The life on his fastball is one of the reasons why he is a good prospect. If he doesn’t have it then he isn’t a good prospect. Its like telling cliff lee to deal without his supernatural command or johan santana to deal without his change up.

  125. Howard June 9th, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    JF – I agree on the good first full year. I disagree on the good second half, and also don’t want to start the how good is Hughes debate.

  126. SoS June 9th, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    YT,
    Good point. Forgot about Hoyer. I wonder what our AAAA affiliate pirates have these days?

  127. Against All Odds June 9th, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    PeterBotte
    Joba is sending MRI results to Andrews but not visiting him yet. Said he “shed a few tears” when told diagnosis, “but I’m not giving up.”
    2 minutes ago

    ———————————————————

    damn that’s sad

  128. ac1 June 9th, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    YT,
    Good point. Forgot about Hoyer. I wonder what our AAAA affiliate pirates have these days?

    ___

    Morton? That guy who changed his approach to look just like Roy Halladay. He has been real good.

  129. Erin June 9th, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    LGY June 9th, 2011 at 4:38 pm
    PeterBotte
    Joba is sending MRI results to Andrews but not visiting him yet. Said he ?shed a few tears? when told diagnosis, ?but I?m not giving up.?
    2 minutes ago

    *********************

    :(

  130. RS June 9th, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    Why would Joba’s Yankee career be over? He could have been in line to make a lot of money these next two years, but coming off TJ surgery he should actually stay cheap through 2012 and possibly 2013.

    The Yankees let Wang and Aceves go because the prognosis for their injuries was a gray unknown. TJ is very routine, especially for a reliever. The Yankees will rehab him for sure

  131. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    Justin Maxwell in a sling, apparently had shoulder surgery. Bubble wrap the yankees.

  132. Howard June 9th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    No on Darvish. How many times is this experiment going to fail before they stop?
    It’s a different animal. When players are washed up, and can’t find jobs, they go become stars in that league.
    They hype never ever works. Everyone on the PLANET said DiceK was the greatest pitcher in the world. How’d that work?

  133. ac1 June 9th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    I thought the Yankees had holes before today.

    Yikes!!!

  134. G-C June 9th, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    Phil wasn’t bad at all in the second half.

    He had a couple of bad starts that inflated his ERA and made a couple of huge shutdown starts, including one that may have saved the season against Boston and ended what seemed like the ever increasing chances of a historic September collapse.

    He was crappy in the ALCS but in the ALDS had one of the strongest starts any Yankee starter has made in a playoff game in the last 10 years. He was absolutely unhittable.

  135. JobaTipsHisCap June 9th, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    someone mentioned Yanks just had a successful west coast trip.
    Yes, it’s always nice to have a west trip with 6-3 record.

    But, you need to check the opponents. As of today, SEA is 2 games above .500; OAK is 9 games below .500 and LAA is 4 games below .500.

    The only series they lost is to SEA which has above .500 record, hmmm, funny. So I wouldn’t take the socalled ‘successful’ trip too much.

  136. Against All Odds June 9th, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    I get the impression 4 years from now we’ll be having the same discussion about Betances, Brackman and Banuelos.

    —————————————-

    To be honest it wouldn’t surprise me obviously I don’t want it to happen but seriously would anyone be surprised if the B’s succumb to the same fate as the big 3.

  137. Yankee Trader June 9th, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    ac1

    Isn’t Morton a lefty who came up with the Braves?

  138. ac1 June 9th, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    Cashman is going to be busy moving forward to trade deadline.

  139. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    No on Darvish. How many times is this experiment going to fail before they stop?
    It’s a different animal. When players are washed up, and can’t find jobs, they go become stars in that league.
    They hype never ever works. Everyone on the PLANET said DiceK was the greatest pitcher in the world. How’d that work?

    You can’t evaluate a whole league on a few players, these are all different individuals. There are players in the NPB who would succeed in the majors, especially if they were able to play in their prime here. Darvish has all the tools that can succeed in the majors.

  140. Howard June 9th, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    Tall, lithe, with good stuff, better command than Matsuzaka, better everything.

    This, i’m not buying. Matsuzaka was the end all. Seriously. Go back and read the articles – even the ones written here. There was supposedly nobody on the planet better than this guy. They hype that surrounds these guys is just that.
    Plus, the posting fee process is no longer what it was when NY could put in 10M and get him. Teams are going to post huge fees for the guys.

  141. JobaTipsHisCap June 9th, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    I think tonight’s game is a blow out, either way.

  142. Latroy Farnsworth June 9th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    how are those JOBA RULES looking now?

  143. SoS June 9th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Jerkface,
    I would pass on any Japanese pitcher. I mentioned this a couple weeks back. Igawa at very start said he had problems with the bigger mlb balls and caused him to have control problems. Im not sure if that still the case. Could that be the reason why Dice also struggled? I know one thing. Japanese pitchers havnt been helping their cause of late. Did you hear anything about that? If this is true, do they still use smaller baseballs?

  144. Howard June 9th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Darvish has all the tools that can succeed in the majors.

    Exactly what was written about Matsuzaka. I know you don’t need me to post the links to all the scout’s reports, the analysts, and beyond.

    But you’re right. By the time these guys get here, they’re burnt to a crisp.

  145. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    The Yankees shuttled Joba back and forth between the BP and starting. Also, instead of shutting him down during a lost season, they sent him back out there after his shoulder injury.

    With Hughes they sent him to the bullpen in 2009 instead of building up his innings and somehow based his innings limit in 2010 based on what he threw 4 years before.

    Both Hughes and Joba were in the majors at 21. They threw a combined 36.2 innings at AAA before debuting in the majors.

    Neither of these guys were babied.

  146. ac1 June 9th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Isn’t Morton a lefty who came up with the Braves?

    ___

    Dont know, but there is a Charlie Morton on the Pirates.

  147. 38HotDogs June 9th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    YankeeTrader,

    Pay attention to the next Sox prospect hyped by Gammons – that’s who will end up being dealt for Bell – need to build up his super prospect status through the media so the casual fan does not recognize the fleecing

  148. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    This, i’m not buying. Matsuzaka was the end all. Seriously. Go back and read the articles – even the ones written here. There was supposedly nobody on the planet better than this guy. They hype that surrounds these guys is just that.

    And lots of minor league prospects are sure things and some free agent signings are sure things and blah blah blah, can’t be scared off of a guy as talented as Darvish because of that. No one knows how Matsuzaka would have fared on a team that didn’t try to force their own training regimen on him.

  149. Irreverent Discourse June 9th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    jerkface – … or raising a prospect to rely on a “swing and miss fastball” is the dumbest possible way to groom a pitcher. If 2 mph is going to make or break your season, you are doing something wrong. CC’s velocity varies more than 2mph from start to start.

    If CC, Johan, or Lee lost 2mph on their fastball, they would make it work.

  150. Howard June 9th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    this is true, do they still use smaller baseballs?

    Yes, closer to same weight, but smaller in circumference.

  151. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    Darvish is only half japanese 8)

  152. ac1 June 9th, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    If CC, Johan, or Lee lost 2mph on their fastball, they would make it work.

    __

    Another reason to try to get Johan from the Mets.

  153. Howard June 9th, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    Pay attention to the next Sox prospect hyped by Gammons ? that?s who will end up being dealt for Bell

    Check out those Rizzo stats. That trade is looking more and more even daily given that the Pads weren’t about to dish out 150M for Adrian Gonzalez. Rizzo is absolutely raking this year.

  154. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    jerkface – … or raising a prospect to rely on a “swing and miss fastball” is the dumbest possible way to groom a pitcher. If 2 mph is going to make or break your season, you are doing something wrong. CC’s velocity varies more than 2mph from start to start.

    You’re just not understanding Hughes fastball properly. Its his best pitch. He was throwing it like a butt this year. It was terrible. And velocity was a part of that. His arm was a mess. All of his pitches sucked. He was throwing 84 mph cutters. He got no bite on anything.

    Hughes needs more than 1 pitch, but when his bread and butter pitch is toast he isn’t going to succeed.

  155. RadioKev June 9th, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    Bummer. This forces the Yankees hand, they’ll need to call up some bigger guns from AAA to fill the void. The best laid plans of mice and men..

  156. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    Velocity loss was merely one of the symptoms of his crappy arm.

  157. Erin June 9th, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    Ledger_Yankees Killer B’s not an option.

    RiverAveBlues Bad day. RT @swbyankeesTT: Justin Maxwell says he tore his labrum. Out for the season.

  158. Howard June 9th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    I’m out.. You guys have nice night (hopefully).

  159. G-C June 9th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    ID,

    That doesn’t make any sense.

    Hughes’s swing-and-miss fastball is to him what a change-up is to Johan Santana and what pinpoint command is to Cliff Lee.

    Its what made him a prospect in the first place and its why he’s had success in the past.

    You can’t just rob an athlete of his greatest tool and expect him to succeed, or more specifically, call that athlete “one dimensional” when he doesn’t.

    That’s like saying that Ray Allen should be able to succeed without his 3 point shot because he’s been in the league 15 years and should have been able to develop a game that entails slashing to the basket, and if he doesn’t find a way to “make it work” he’s just not that good.

    Even better, let’s take Mariano Rivera’s cutter away from him and see what he does with it. If he isn’t capable of innovating at this stage of his career, he’s too one dimensional and wasn’t developed properly.

  160. Pat M. June 9th, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    The bullpen answers should be solvable from within the organization……Enough time before the trade deadline to see what in house options might work out…..What was a deep strong pen back in January has grown into the singular most troubling issue

  161. bruceb June 9th, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    All hands on deck now. If they can’t trade a for a reliever or two, I guess we’ll be seeing at least one of the Killer Bs sooner rather than later. Or will that be too risky to their development?

  162. Irreverent Discourse June 9th, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    jerkface – We don’t really disagree here… all i’m really getting at is that his stamina has to return before his velocity matters. He “should” be able to pitch at 90, or 92, or 94… as long as his separation in velocity and his movement is good. His movement was terrible so obviously there was a lot wrong this year.

  163. Yankee Trader June 9th, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    ac1-

    Charlie Morton is a righty, came up with the Braves in 2008, now with a 6-2 record and a 2.52 ERA with the Pirates.

    Pirate reliever Joel Hanrahan and his 1.57 ERA would look good in pinstripes!!

  164. SoS June 9th, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    Yes, closer to same weight, but smaller in circumference.

    ========

    Than the obvious follow up question is.. Does Darvish have BIG hands. That will truly determine his fate. Youd think MLB would donate some baseballs to Japan with all the risk that comes from it.

  165. Erin June 9th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    YankeesWFAN For latest on Joba listen to Joe Girardi with Mike Francesa next–5:05pm ET on 660AM WFAN and wfan.com.

  166. ac1 June 9th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    Charlie Morton is a righty, came up with the Braves in 2008, now with a 6-2 record and a 2.52 ERA with the Pirates.

    ___

    Exactly. Someone asked who the Pirates were carrying. I mentioned him.
    Joel Hanrahan would look good too, though Pittsburgh is not falling back so far as to trade away their best talent again.

  167. UnKnown June 9th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    Cash better get the mattress laid down in his office. He better plan on living there from now till August.

  168. Purenyyankee June 9th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    Does anyone know the timetable for this stiff Soriano? Is he going to suck it up and pitch?

  169. Irreverent Discourse June 9th, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    G-C – You are sideswiping the point. Mo’s cutter at 90 or 92 or 94 is still effective for him because he locates it and does all of the other little things right. Hughes fastball at 90 instead of 92 or 94 was horrendous because the rest of his game is weak. Hughes had a solid arsenal with a plus curveball. He abandoned that to throw this cutter hybrid mess.

  170. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    I thought the difference between NPB and MLB was that MLB balls had raised stitching?

    Weight L Weight H Circumference L Circumfrence H
    MLB 5 oz 5.25 oz 9 in 9.25 in
    NPB 5.002 oz 5.253 oz 9 in 9.29 in

  171. SoS June 9th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Jerkface,
    What ever happened to Hughes nasty curve he came up with? Do you think he should shelf the cutter and use more curves?

  172. champ809 June 9th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    at this point I really think the Yanks must go in house with guys with more upside to address the attrition in the ‘pen before they explore trades.

    I’d like to see Whelan/Norton and Kontos brought up with Sanit/Marquez and Pendleton sent down. These guys profile better to handle mid to late inning work in that they bring it mid 90′s + with the fastball with an above average to + secondary pitch as well. Kontos for many years was considered to have the best slider in the system.

  173. Irreverent Discourse June 9th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    SoS – It’s the weight change of the ball that messes up your elbow physically. The diameter difference is just an adjustment in grip (and obviously still being able to control it).

  174. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Hughes fastball at 90 instead of 92 or 94 was horrendous because the rest of his game is weak.

    And because it lacked life… because his arm was dead. Getting back the velocity is the first sign of him getting back his proper fastball.

  175. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    The biggest difference is that Japanese players will swing at anything in the strike zone, almost no matter what, they will sac bunt more, and the strike zone is closer to the MLB text book, meaning high strikes.

  176. Wave Your Hat June 9th, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    I will only expect Hughes once he’s here and pitching. Same goes for Soriano.

  177. Frozen Rope June 9th, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    Yayyyyyyyyy!!!

    Don’t have to watch this fat tub poo poo around the mound anymore stinking up the joint for the Yankees.

    Hopefully this means his Yankee career is over and he can go somewhere else that can manage pitching a bit better than the nincompoops in this organization.

  178. champ809 June 9th, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    Howard

    everybody rakes in the PCL….

  179. qiantom June 9th, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Nobody wins because they have the best bullpen in the league. That was just a joke that yanks used to mask their despair after losing out on Cliff Lee and being overmatched by Redsox.

  180. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    PCL is where baseballs go to die

  181. Yankee Trader June 9th, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    Found this on Feliciano. Looks like a decision should be made soon if season ending surgery is needed or stem cell therapy!!!

    Apr 18, 4:38 pm EDT

    tweet59EmailPrintNEW YORK (AP)—Yankees left-hander Pedro Feliciano(notes) will put off shoulder surgery for at least 11/2 months.

    Sidelined since spring training, Feliciano was examined Monday in Pensacola, Fla., by Dr. James Andrews, who recommended a six-week program of a shoulder strengthening.

    New York said Feliciano will remain with the team during the rehabilitation process. The Yankees said last week that Feliciano has a torn capsule in his left shoulder and might need season-ending surgery.

    ——————————————————————————–

  182. RSM June 9th, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    Well this has not been a good week for news.

  183. hardwired7 June 9th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    Adiós to any budgetary constraints if the Yanks are serious about this season. Counting on any of the DL’d guys (w/the possible exception of Soriano) at this point would be foolhardy.

    Heath Bell and Kerry Wood s/b prime targets 1 & 2.

  184. Frozen Rope June 9th, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    Joba’s ‘development’ and flip flopping between pen and rotation.
    Pedro Feliciano – enough said.
    Kyle Farnsworth – also enough said.
    Letting Aceves go – who was always great when healthy.

    Just a few of Cashman’s brilliant pitching moves, at least the Soriano debacle can’t be pinned on him. This organization is so inept when it comes to pitching.

  185. Irreverent Discourse June 9th, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    jerkface – Am I allowed to desire the rest of his game also be raised, rather than just the part that barely makes him capable of pitching in the majors? :( If he never regains his full velocity back, should he just give up? … or learn how to “pitch” better? Starters all over baseball deal with pitches working/not-working on a daily basis… if his ability to pitch in the majors is tied directly to the a$$ of his fastball they need to work on that ASAP.

    He’s not on the DL because he was missing 2mph from his fastball. He’s on the DL because EVERYTHING was messed up and he couldn’t pitch 3 innings before getting gassed. If he gets his 2mph back but still can’t go 6+, what’s the point?

  186. Tom in N.J. June 9th, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    High Socks For Hope indeed!

  187. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    He’s not on the DL because he was missing 2mph from his fastball. He’s on the DL because EVERYTHING was messed up and he couldn’t pitch 3 innings before getting gassed. If

    He was gassed before 3 innings. Its not normal for a 24 year old who could sit comfortably at 92 to be averaging 89 mph. You don’t tell Hughes to DEAL WITH THAT. Especially when it wasn’t only his FB velocity that was crap. He got more swings and misses with his 92 mph fastball than pitchers get with their 95-99. It was a special pitch.

    He needs more secondary stuff, but with a good fastball his secondary pitches worked. His arm was toast and none of his stuff was good.

  188. Yankee Trader June 9th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    Kerry Wood took a lot less money to be in Chicago.
    Heath Bell, if traded, has minimal chance that exRed Sox Asst. GM Jed Hoyer, will allow him to come to the Yankees.

  189. RadioKev June 9th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    What baloney about Joba’s development causing this injury. Injuries happen. They’ve handled his innings appropriately for his entire career.

  190. BoJo June 9th, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    When one door shuts, another opens….

    This injury to Joba will provide a chance for a prospect to get a chance and may turn out fine.

    Also, no real surprise that Joba will need TJ surgery. Most young pitchers that throw that hard eventually need it. The good news is that:
    1) Joba will come back stronger and probably throw harder (as others have)
    2) They can rehab him as a starter and restart his opportunity to be in rotation
    3) They have options on him and will keep salary low enough to make it attractive to keep him
    4) Joba will be able to come back stronger than ever with both his rehab and strength work

    I still have very high hopes for the young man. His life isn’t over from this…it is just the beginning.

  191. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    If he never regains his full velocity back, should he just give up?

    If he never gets his fastball back he probably won’t be long for baseball.

  192. austinmac June 9th, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    Hughes must have his velocity to succeed. Not everyone has Madduxian command or movement. Read Hughes quotes. He believes he needs his velocity.

    Norton was my mid-afternoon hope. Now, he is on the DL? Joba going on the 60 day will open up roster spot for perhaps Whelen.

  193. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    Find me top starters that are right handed throwing 89 mph.

  194. Kevin Not That Kevin Brown June 9th, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    This is doubly bad for us because we were weak in the bullpen already and everyone knew it; now with Joba out, even those teams that are out of the race and willing to deal can hold us up for ransom. So everyone and anyone will cost us more in prospects.

    Do you think they would risk bringing up any of the Killer B’s and putting them in the bullpen? Risk stunting their growth as starters for a one-season fix?

  195. G-C June 9th, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    How many games has our bullpen cost us this year?

    Teams don’t make the playoffs solely because they have good bullpens.

    Although, it is time to get some of the deadweight out of there and call up some live arms.

  196. Yankee Trader June 9th, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    Any word on Norton and the reason he was put on 7 day DL after pitching a scorless inning striking out 2 for his first stint in AAA the other night??

    Add Whelan to 40 man, and perhaps Kontos, bring them up, and drop Sanit and Texeira.

    Randy Flores might get a call, although I don’t think he’ll be much better than Boone Logan.

  197. Yankee Trader June 9th, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    G-C

    I believe the bullpen has 4 losses and ? inherited runners allowed to score charged to the starting pitcher who got the loss.

  198. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    swbyankeesTT Some good news: I’m told Jesus Montero has been cleared to play. He isn’t in the lineup today, but sounds like he will be very soon.

  199. Warning Track Power June 9th, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    Mark Prior. I just remembered that we have him and just a moment ago I read
    that Mark is injured(of course-Mark has a hernia).
    WOW!!!

  200. Yankee Trader June 9th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    I thought Prior’s injury was a groin strain.

  201. hardwired7 June 9th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    “Kerry Wood took a lot less money to be in Chicago.”

    He also spoke glowingly about his time playing in NY. I don’t think he was being disingenuous.

    At any rate, it’s really about the Cubs motivation, rather than Wood’s personal preferences. If the Yanks are taking on water, they’ve already sunk.

    Why wouldn’t they try to flip him for a legitimate piece or two?

    I hear you about the Jed Hoyer, American Patriot thing though. It wouldn’t surprise me one iota to see Bell ship off to Boston for a few magic beans.

  202. Wave Your Hat June 9th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    7 losses credited to the NY pen, not counting losses credited to starting pitchers but due to runs allowed by the pen.

  203. Tom in N.J. June 9th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    wallacematthews Another Joba non-option: Mark Prior on the DL after hernia surgery

  204. Betsy June 9th, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    Wow………….Why didn’t the Yankees shut Joba down if he was feeling soreness? Did Joba not say anything? Assuming he did, then shutting him down would have been the safest thing to do. Of course the Yankees don’t always go that route – or else they would have sent Phil for an MRI earlier than they did.

    Poor Joba- it’s unbelievable how the troika of Phil, Ian and Joba turned out. Ian is the best pitcher ………and now Phil and Joba have health issues.

  205. Betsy June 9th, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    If the Yankees put Phil in the pen this year, they may just as well forget him as a starter for as long as he’s in pinstripes.

  206. Betsy June 9th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    How would Francesca know what the Yankees are thinking re: Phil?

  207. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    Why didn’t the Yankees shut Joba down if he was feeling soreness?

    All pitchers feel soreness, and supposedly joba did not feel enough extra-soreness to make a big deal about it.

  208. Irreverent Discourse June 9th, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    jerkface – Hughes fastball must be something like Robertsons, where its not really “fast” it just looks that way. Did they ever post that Trackman data set outside of the SI article?

  209. Betsy June 9th, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    The only way I’d put Phil in the pen is if he struggles like he did last year in the 2nd half – if he can not get his curve over and if he refuses to throw his change. This should be an absolute last resort.

  210. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    How would Francesca know what the Yankees are thinking re: Phil?

    ——

    I think it’s safe to say he doesn’t

  211. Joe from Long Island June 9th, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    Guys, I really don’t think Joba’s injury can be blamed on the Yanks, any more than Joe Nathan’s TJ can be blamed on the Twins. Or, Tommy John’s on the Dodgers. Or…… well, you get the idea.

    It stinks most of all for Joba.

    I’m with Pat M., and others – check out the internal options. I’d like to know why Norton was DL’d. But, in any case, there’s Warren, Phelps, etc…. Even try Nova as a one-inning guy, and insert Noesi in his slot. I know Noesi was just sent down, but isn’t there a clause where he can be recalled in case of injury?

  212. BoJo June 9th, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
    Find me top starters that are right handed throwing 89 mph.
    ______
    Mike Mussina—who I always have thought Hughes will end up like….

  213. rr212 June 9th, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    Phil probably belongs in the pen anyway, unless he develops more pitches. He’s essentially a fastball pitcher with a decent curve. His Cutter needs work.

  214. austinmac June 9th, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    If they want to win this year, I don’t think they can place any reliance on Hughes, Soriano, Feliciano or Chavez. If one of that group contributes this year I will be happy.

    This is an example of the folly of preseason forecasts. For all the Yankees perceived weaknesses, their bullpen was their strength. Now, they are as thin as they have been for many years. I sure didn’t foresee it.

  215. Yankee Trader June 9th, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    WYH-

    It looks like the Red Sox have at least nine losses attributed to the bullpen-4 to Bard, 3 to Albers, and 2 Jenks. I don’t knw if the loss charged to Aceves or Wakefield was a bullpen loss.

  216. G-C June 9th, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    Wave Your Hat,

    That really isn’t all that bad.

    The 2005 Chicago White Sox had the best bullpen perhaps of all time, certainly of this decade, and combined to lose 21 games.

    There isn’t a great way to quantify how many games a bullpen “loses” for a team (I don’t think actual losses are a particularly great representation), but I don’t think anyone can say the Yankees bullpen has hurt them in any way this year.

  217. Joe from Long Island June 9th, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    Betsy – every pitcher feels soreness after pitching. It comes with the territory. He said it didn’t feel any differently, and he threw some vicious curves against Anaheim on Sunday; curves are tough on the elbow.

    I agree about Phil. He should stick to starting. They have other options for the pen. Just have to use them.

  218. Betsy June 9th, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    Phil’s secondary pitches are not very good at all…..that’s why I felt that if the Yankees wanted him here long term, that he should stay in AAA until he can get his curve back and deal with the fact that he needs to throw the change more than once in a blue moon. I never thought that was going to happen, though, even before this.

  219. G-C June 9th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    “Mike Mussina—who I always have thought Hughes will end up like….”

    _________________________________________________

    I sometimes thought the same thing, but I’m not so sure anymore Bojo.

    Mussina was a rare breed. Exceptional command and movement on multiple pitches. Incredible smarts. And he wasn’t any soft tosser back in his hey day.

    I always made the Mussina comparison for IPK, largely because of the similarities in their deliveries from the stretch, and I think its holding true right now, sadly for us!

  220. hardwired7 June 9th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    For Robertson, his release point has always been one of the keys to his success:

    http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/.....cess-28455

    He has such great extension that he could easily live at 92 mph. The fact that he’s a tick or two above that this season is certainly a great omen.

  221. Betsy June 9th, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    Joe, then it’s just really crappy luck, but that’s the price you pay I guess when you repeat a motion that’s completely unnatural. I don’t blame anyone here – certainly not the Yankees.

  222. Joe from Long Island June 9th, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    betsy – agreed, there’s way to much inclination to affix blame. Doesn’t work in real life, and it doesn’t work in athletics so much, either.

  223. Betsy June 9th, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    Jerkface, then this is just another reminder of how luck plays a huge part in developing pitchers. The Giants’ studs have basically been completely healthy…………

    LGY, I would lay odds on that for sure. I’d be shocked if the Yankees put Phil in the pen.

  224. blake June 9th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    I just feel horrible for Joba…..he was finally starting to find it and was becoming a big part of this team and it get ripped away like this.

    The good news is that he’s still young and has time to recover…..but that doesn’t make it any better now

  225. Betsy June 9th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    Joe, it’s too easy to blame the Yankees and everyone will do it. I haven’t listened to sports radio or read any articles in weeks and I’m not going to start now. You never know who is going to stay healthy or not – it’s genetics and luck.

  226. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    You don’t just develop command like Moose. He had it from the start.

    I think it’s safe to say Hughes is not going to turn into Mussina.

  227. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    Mike Mussina—who I always have thought Hughes will end up like….

    Mussina threw 92-94 for a good part of his career. by the time he had to deal with velocity loss he had already been in the league for 10 years and had like 5 workable pitches.

  228. Nick in SF June 9th, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    If we lose tonight, white hot rage will melt LoHud’s servers.

  229. Warning Track Power June 9th, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    Betsy-
    I agree with you!

    Injuries are going to happen.

    Look at how much the Nats were protective of Strasburg and that guy still suffered a serious injury.

    The Yankees took extra precautions with both Joba and Hughes and those 2 still suffered
    arm injuries

  230. Betsy June 9th, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    RR, I sometimes think that as well, but it’s too premature to do that now……..

  231. Irreverent Discourse June 9th, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    jerkface – As far as right handed pitchers go, Weaver was the first name that came to mind and his avg fastball vel is under 90 (looking at the last 5 years). I pulled up the whole list and looked over it quickly…

    Under 90:
    Jered Weaver
    Ian Kennedy
    Jair Jurrjens
    Colby Lewis
    Carl Pavano
    Trevor Cahill

    Under 91:
    Gavin Floyd
    Tim Hudson
    James Shields
    Rick Porcello

    Is it easier with more velocity? Obviously… but it’s not impossible to live under 90mph.

  232. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    Who knows why Hughes and Joba have died, but I think it is misguided to say that the Yankees have babied those two.

    In the past few years the Yankees have been pretty aggressive with both those guys and it certainly could be a contributing factor to there injuries.

  233. Betsy June 9th, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    I wonder why I kept reading about Phil having such great command in the minors. If he never had it in the first place, then what made him such a great prospect given that he apparently didn’t throw 95? I’m not trying to be snarky, just curious. It’s almost as if his MiILB career was an urban legend. We heard about his awesome FB, killer curve and great command ……………but have we ever really seen it? I just don’t believe that his 2007 injuries ruined him – except that they stunted his development.

  234. austinmac June 9th, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    Betsy,

    Those who don’t suffer arm injuries are blessed with a genetic gift. It’s all a crapshoot with pitchers’ health.

  235. Irreverent Discourse June 9th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    The pitchers that don’t need surgery at some point are the freaks, not the other way around.

  236. Warning Track Power June 9th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    austinmac June 9th, 2011 at 5:58 pm
    Betsy,

    Those who don’t suffer arm injuries are blessed with a genetic gift. It’s all a crapshoot with pitchers’ health.
    ****************************
    There you have it.
    End of story.
    The haters needs to read this post and stop asking anymore questions about the situation.

  237. Carlo June 9th, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    Why suddenly is the radar gun on Hughes when just 3 days ago putting a gun on him was totally pointless as per some members of the coaching staff?

  238. austinmac June 9th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    Irreverent,

    No question some can pitch effectively with less velocity. But, to do so, they make be able to throw multiple pitches for strikes at any count. Hughes is not there, at least at this point.

  239. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    There you have it.
    End of story.
    The haters needs to read this post and stop asking anymore questions about the situation.

    ————

    If injuries were just a crapshoot teams would not take such precautions with their pitchers.

    How a team manages and uses their pitchers certainly contributes to injuries.

  240. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    Weaver can hit 94. Kennedy is a good one, but he hasn’t had a long career yet. Jurrjens lost 2 mph off his fastball this year but has cut his walk rate and HR rates in half, dunno if that will hold up. Colby Lewis is flukey and probably not good. Pavano is a good call. Cahill jury is still out on him.

    But what do all these pitchers have in common? Change up, 2seamers and almost to a man don’t walk anyone. With the exception of Kennedy, Weaver, and Lewis almost all these guys throw sinkers/2 seamers.

    Hughes would have to radically alter his approach, which he would be forced to do if he lost his fastball, but to be the pitcher he has been all his life he needs a good fastball. And honestly this list isn’t inspiring.

  241. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    Also thanks for looking that up, it really reinforces how important the change is for hughes.

  242. Betsy June 9th, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    LGY, I guess there’s really no reason. Some pitchers mature early and some just don’t develop period. I can’t speak re: Joba, but I read a lot about Phil. The Yankees had to do a lot of projecting with him out of HS – his FB was good, he had a great build, etc… Did they ever think he’d have major problems with the consistency of his secondary pitches or that he would be stubborn about the change? Unfortunately that’s stuff they couldn’t predict. Is his FB even as good as it was in the minors? So many questions – it’s really just too bad that so far it appears that Joba and Phil will be relative footnotes in Yankee history.

  243. Jerkface June 9th, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    How a team manages and uses their pitchers certainly contributes to injuries.

    This is true, but even managing players well doesn’t save them from injury.

  244. RhapsodyInBlue June 9th, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    Sad news on Joba I’ve always been one of his biggest fans. What a disappointing day.

  245. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    Anyone who has ever played a sport or participated in any physical activity should know that you can push your body to injury.

    There is no way to completely prevent injuries. But, it is silly to say it is all a crapshoot or a product of random chance or whatever.

  246. Betsy June 9th, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    Austin, I think that’s true…………It’s still hard to believe. A few years ago, we thought Joba and Phil would be anchoring the rotation.

  247. RhapsodyInBlue June 9th, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    It’s no one’s fault pitchers get hurt everyday for every organization, part of baseball.

  248. Betsy June 9th, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    Jerkface, I’ve thought for awhile that Phil should go with a 2-seamer. He just gives up way too many HRs and I don’t love his cutter.

  249. Betsy June 9th, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    I do think the Yankees babied Phil in the minors- remember how they never let him go past 80 pitches (I think)?

  250. LGY June 9th, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    This is true, but even managing players well doesn’t save them from injury.

    —————–

    Yep.

    It is likely that numerous things contributed to Joba’s injury.

  251. Joe from Long Island June 9th, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    I just heard Joe’s press conf. on YES – it sounds like Joba was really sympton-free. And, apparently, that doesn’t make sense with the MRI findings.

    Absolultely, he needs to see the super-specialist in this, Dr. Andrews.

    The question I have is, how severe is this tear? How necessary is surgery? Is surgery automatic?

    There’s a saying in my field – it’s hard to improve on normal. In my experience, it’s hard to justify an invasive procedure when the patient doesn’t have any complaints.

    It comes down to what can be expected without surgery. Enter, Dr. Andrews.

  252. Nilsson June 9th, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    I’m not surprised by the news. Joba’s velocity fluctuated in previous outings and it was unusually low in his last game. Hopefully, he can make a full recovery from TJ.

    I don’t think this is a severe blow though. Short relievers are not difficult to find. They just have to stop messing around with the Pendleton’s, Marquez, Anit’s …. and give opportunities to the premium arms in the system.

  253. Warning Track Power June 9th, 2011 at 6:14 pm

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    if the Yankees lose tonight, THE SEASON IS NOT OVER!!

  254. Erin June 9th, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    JackCurryYES Cashman told reporters Hughes will remain as starter so he’s not option 4 pen. The GM also said Banuelos, Betances, Brackman arent ready.

    Joelsherman1 I heard #Yankees strongly leaning toward promoting Triple-A closer Kevin Whelan in next few days (1.67 ERA/18 svs for SWB)

    pcaldera Tarp being rolled out now at the Stadium. Winds kicking up.

  255. Erin June 9th, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    New Post w/pregame notes

    :arrow:

  256. ac1 June 9th, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    Whelan may be up in a few days…

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