Pitching matchups vs. Rays
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jul 07, 2011 
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Tonight
RHP Bartolo Colon (6-3, 2.88)
vs.
RHP Jeff Niemann (3-4, 5.05)
7:05 p.m., YES Network / MLB Network
Friday
RHP Freddy Garcia (7-6, 3.13)
vs.
RHP Jeremy Hellickson (8-7, 3.21)
7:05 p.m., YES Network
Saturday
RHP A.J. Burnett (8-7, 4.12)
vs.
LHP David Price (8-7, 3.56)
1:05 p.m., YES Network
Sunday
LHP CC Sabathia (12-4, 2.90)
vs.
RHP James Shields (8-6, 2.47)
1:05 p.m., YES Network
Has it seriously been debated all morning whether strike 3 is the hardest strike to get?
Is that really up for debate?
My head hurts.
Is that really up for debate?
——————-
Apparently to
someone it is.Only the ignorant can claim to know everything.
1-3
For no other reason than I’ve bet against Bartolo and Garcia all year, and I don’t think we beat Price.
Stick with what’s working
It wasn’t a debate. Both sides have to present arguments for it to be a debate. I think they went with a combination of ‘human element’ and ‘stats suck’ to try and wiggle out of it.
Has it seriously been debated all morning whether strike 3 is the hardest strike to get?
==========================================
Seriously? Wouldn’t go quite that far.
I think they went with a combination of ?human element? and ?stats suck? to try and wiggle out of it.
My eyes, my eyes!!!
Jerkface July 7th, 2011 at 11:48 am
It wasn’t a debate. Both sides have to present arguments for it to be a debate. I think they went with a combination of ‘human element’ and ‘stats suck’ to try and wiggle out of it.
*************
I said not one word about strike three. My comments were about your obsession.
I said not one word about strike three.
West Coast Yankee Fan July 7th, 2011 at 2:47 am
Jerkface July 7th, 2011 at 1:44 am
“It’s strike 3 thats the hard one.”
**************************
Maybe the dumbest comment that I have ever seen here.
As I said, either its the dumbest comment you’ve seen because of its obvious correctness in which case you agree with me or you think strike 3 is not the hardest of all the strikes to get
Chad-
Please see my comment at the end of the last post.
Your efforts are always appreciated. Get some rest.
Ignoring more advanced metrics just to “spite the world” only makes you less informed.
It’s like a 6th grader arguing with a college professor that he learned everything he needed to know about the world from watching Sesame Street.
Anyone with eyes can watch baseball, but it requires more than that basic ability to understand what you are watching.
Posted on RAB, links to an amazing story on Jeter.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/.....-3000-hits
Irreverent Discourse July 7th, 2011 at 11:54 am
It?s like a 6th grader arguing with a college professor that he learned everything he needed to know about the world from watching Sesame Street.
****************************
Hey!! You DO learn a lot from Sesame Street!!!
Jerkface July 7th, 2011 at 11:48 am
Wiggle out of nothing. You made a typo, an error, misstatement whatever you want to call it. You can stop trying to inflate that ego and make yourself look like the self righteous poster. Everyone makes mistakes. Get over it.
Seriously? Wouldn’t go quite that far.
——–
As I said, my comments were about your obsession. That you come to these etched-in-stone conclusions based on statistics.
Does watching TV somehow qualify you to analyze thousands of “strike 3″ pitches at once? No, if anything it skews and limits your sample so drastically that you literally can’t know what you are talking about.
Erin,
I do request you hold off on your Sesame Street posts as it is likely to get GB again pining for someone to dress up like Bert. Or was it Ernie?
GB, pining is a fair word from your part of the world. Desert is a fair word for my part.
My post you quoted includes no statistics, so how can it be about that?
How is “Maybe the dumbest comment that I have ever seen here.” about his “obsession”
Wiggle out of nothing. You made a typo, an error, misstatement whatever you want to call it. You can stop trying to inflate that ego and make yourself look like the self righteous poster. Everyone makes mistakes. Get over it.
–
What are you talking about? Answer this question: Is strike 3 harder to get called looking than strike 1 or strike 2?
How is “Maybe the dumbest comment that I have ever seen here.” about his “obsession”
–
Its more about WCYF’s obsession.
austinmac-
yes, GB wants me to get the Bert hat to match my mittens.
Sorry, Mac, but, just have zero use or belief in Mitre. He’s never shown anything in 9 years except for a year of decent.
reposted from last thread….
I am not confusing WCYF and Jerkface.
“Trade Nova and Hughes for Brett Anderson? Wha???? Trade two young starting pitchers for one who is an under .500 pitcher who has always given up more hits than innings pitched.
Really bad idea.”
I agree with the conclusion but quoting win rate as a reason? Faaaaaaiiiil
“I believe the stat he was misusing was ‘hits per 9?, but maybe its a package deal and he created a new advanced stat WIN%+H/9? Because hits per 9 by itself isn’t the sign of a bad pitcher.”
Sounds like a Jim Bowden stat
Nothing new here. There are fanatical disciples of metrics – and there are those who feel they contribute to sucking some of the life out of the game.
Patrick July 7th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
I agree with the conclusion but quoting win rate as a reason? Faaaaaaiiiil
************
Wins are a factor, not the only one.
Knowledge always belies mysticism. It’s a natural progression of life, WCYF.
Nothing new here. There are fanatical disciples of metrics – and there are those who feel they contribute to sucking some of the life out of the game.
–
Do you think strike 3 is easier, harder, or the same to get as strike 1 or 2 ?
As I said, my comments were about your obsession.
=========================
In all fairness, the comment that triggered this little shytestorm was your dismissal of JF’s “strike 3 is the hard one” comment as the dumbest you’ve ever seen here.
RobinsonCano I would like to thank all of my fans for voting for me, it means a lot to me!
Wow next Wednesday the Devil is loose.
Glad that’s all done before I get into Orlando on Thurs.
Hey Tyanks, if your around any advice on how to get tickets and where to park when the Yankees are at the Trop the week after the all star break. In 2007 I just walked up and bought them at the Ticket window which worked pretty good. Any other advice expecially on parking? Thanks.
Jerkface July 7th, 2011 at 11:51 am
I said not one word about strike three.
West Coast Yankee Fan July 7th, 2011 at 2:47 am
Jerkface July 7th, 2011 at 1:44 am
“It’s strike 3 thats the hard one.”
**************************
Maybe the dumbest comment that I have ever seen here.
_____________
Just proof that he doesn’t read anything from VY or himself. Just like most everyone else here.
Mell July 7th, 2011 at 12:04 pm
In all fairness, the comment that triggered this little shytestorm was your dismissal of JF’s “strike 3 is the hard one” comment as the dumbest you’ve ever seen here.
******************
It was the culmination of other statements . . .
“I’ve already shown how few called strikes are strike 3 (and of the 22259 PA which go to 2 strikes, only 10% end with a called third strike).”
Sorry to see that NY native and Baltimore Colts tight end, John Mackey has passed away. RIP, Mr. Mackey.
Do your culminations usually happen at the start of the proceedings?
Blojo – more great trade proposals please. Hughes and Nova for Brett Anderson was brilliant.
Just another example of WCYF and his sock puppet VY saying something stupid to generate an argument, and then running around gleefully changing the topic and attacking with insults when they are called out for it. True trolls…
I usually try to ignore them now, but just wanted to warn everyone here that you are playing right into their hands. they love the attention…even if it is ridicule.
It was the culmination of other statements . . .
——————
How can it be the culmination of other statements they came after your dumbest comment I have ever seen post?
LGY – That hurt my brain.
Of course, you can’t read…as I have known all along. I said Brett or Gio…and yet you completely discount the Gio part. I included Brett because several here prefer him…Everyone else knows I prefer Gio–the All Star who I said in ST would have a break out year last year and again this year.
Troll–just trying to start a fight as always. Go away.
Jerkface you have your way of looking at the game of baseball; being totally obsessed with statistics to the point of the elimination the myriad of human elements that effect results. It’s diametrically opposed to how I see the game. I am not alone.
Jeter’s career http://espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/.....-3000-hits
Take a break from the usual stuff here.
What does that have to do with strike 3? And why is what I said the dumbest comment ever? The human element is precisely why strike 3 is so hard to get. Hitters are trying not to give in. Umpires make it difficult to get the pitch called. Pitchers might not have the deception or stuff to freeze batters.
West Coast Yankee Fan July 7th, 2011 at 12:13 pm
Jerkface you have your way of looking at the game of baseball; being totally obsessed with statistics to the point of the elimination the myriad of human elements that effect results. It’s diametrically opposed to how I see the game. I am not alone.
____
You’ll never be alone when you have a sock puppet…
Wow!!! I’m surpised to see Nieman with a 5.05 ERA. Last year he was an emerging star. Does anyone know if he’s been injured or has the league simply caught up to him?
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/bl.....lb-wp11800
Great plan MLB, how many fans will get beaten down in the stands trying to get a hold of these?
Sigh. Selig swings, Selig misses.
jimbaumbach Potential juror says she recalls Roger Clemens’ induction into the Hall of Fame. Oh, really?
If you said Brett “or” Gio that means that trading Hughes and Nova for Brett was acceptable to you. So, you make a stupid baseball trade proposal, as you usually do, and then when you are called on it you throw a sissy fit. Got it. Dismissed.
I have no intention of wasting an afternoon talking to a moron under two aliases (WCYF and VY)….see you for the game folks.
“Nothing new here. There are a variety of metrics that can add to one’s appreciation of the game – and there are those who don’t want to spend the time to understand them so they pretend that they suck some of the life out of the game.”
*nods*
WCYF – Only you separate knowing how to use advanced statistics from appreciating the human element of the game… because you can’t comprehend both concepts at the same time.
Your rampant assumption that everyone else suffers your shortcomings is glaring and obvious.
Wow!!! I’m surpised to see Nieman with a 5.05 ERA. Last year he was an emerging star. Does anyone know if he’s been injured or has the league simply caught up to him?
–
He kind of sucks. He is really tall but doesn’t have the electric stuff to match his height. Kind of like a Jon Rauch.
Cool Blojo starting in with your usual garbage. Why don’t you act your age instead of your shoe size.
I attacked no one or stared in with BS unlike yourself. I questioned a post because I didn’t understand it, now I do.
Stop now with your usual false allegations, I don’t want to play your silly identity games.
I really don’t understand what is going on here.
Jerkface posted that strike three is the hardest to get and apparently to WCYF that is the dumbest comment he is ever seen.
How has
WCYF and VineyardWCYF morphed this into a sabermetric vs human element war???Do people that prefer the human element or don’t understand statistics think strike 3 is easy to get called? It should be obvious from watching games that its not. And the stats back that up. Thats usually how proving things works.
Wow!!! I’m surpised to see Nieman with a 5.05 ERA. Last year he was an emerging star. Does anyone know if he’s been injured or has the league simply caught up to him?
–
He kind of sucks. He is really tall but doesn’t have the electric stuff to match his height. Kind of like a Jon Rauch.
============================================
Two years ago (as a rookie) Niemann was 13-6 with a 3.94 ERA. Last year he was 12-8 with a 4.39 ERA. He seems to be regressing instead of progressing.
I hope that he doesn’t have his “once-a-year-game” tonight.
This is one MESSED up Yankee family
couldn’t you guys have continued this squabbling on the prior post so as not to subject the rest of us to it?
Niemanns troubles are not too hard to lock down. Biggest issue is too many walks (3 per 9) coupled with a low GB rate… without a dominating K/9 it’s very hard to be consistent pitching like that.
BoJo July 7th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
I have no intention of wasting an afternoon talking to a moron under two aliases (WCYF and VY)….see you for the game folks.
===============
But of course you don’t., Yet again @ 12:07, 12:11 and 12:15pm that’s exactly what you do. Every single time you say you will refrain or not comment you do. Your nothing but a hypocrite Brad. Go clean some teeth, oh that’s right you got fired from that gig which is why you spend your whole life blogging and telling dumb jokes and making up inane trade proposals.
Irreverent Discourse July 7th, 2011 at 12:17 pm
WCYF – Only you separate knowing how to use advanced statistics from appreciating the human element of the game… because you can’t comprehend both concepts at the same time. Your rampant assumption that everyone else suffers your shortcomings is glaring and obvious.
**************
I am as well read and informed on metrics as anyone. As a matter of fact when they first came to prominence I thought they were fascinating and helpful. I still believe statistics/metrics are accurate and relevant enough to have “a place” in making evaluations. Where I part ways is when the reliance on such is obsessive and seeks to discount other means of decision making — and when the adherence to them chips away at the human element and beauty of the game which I feel is occurring.
I.D. – but what is Niemann’s actual problem? Arm angle? Stride? Distracted by spinner in the front row?
Actually, I am an expert in the human element. I was human before anyone.
RiverAveBlues Nike unveils DJ3K apparel. Will be on sale at all sporting goods stores for $25. Blue http://flic.kr/p/a1rDBM
harold reynolds just said that the redsox have depth in the minors?? what depth??
I had to split up the links so I don’t get a “your post is being monitered”:
Gray: http://flic.kr/p/a1rDxk
WCYF – You constantly disregard (even disparage) stats and any poster that brings one up that doesn’t back up what “you think you saw”. You can’t have it both ways. When you stop making blanket statements about those who use the stats (since you have no knowledge of their ability to “watch” the game) maybe people will take you more seriously.
Enough fighting!!! I will totally start talking about Sesame Street.
I am disappointed that neither VY or WCYF have given definitive answers about the difficulty of strike 3. One of life’s great mysteries.
Jerkface July 7th, 2011 at 12:34 pm
I was questioning taking called strikes vs. swinging strikes and foul balls for strikes. The difficulty of how you get strike 3 is of non interest to me.
I’ve been reviewing the Yankees’ draft choices for the past couple of years – esp their first picks, and they’re curious to say the least. Esp, the past 2 years. All of the reviews I’ve read on Culver make him out to mediocre at best and a career mL at worst. The presumed philosophy of “picking the best player when they get to pick” seems at odds with the results so far. (Bleich, Heathcott, Culver, Bichette)… but I do recall a lot of people on here scratching their heads when the Yanks picked these players. I realize it’s still way early, but if they Yanks were picking straight up on talent, then why Culver? Bichette? Bleich? Certainly there were more “talented” players on the board when they picked. Obviously, $$ isn’t an issue, so anyone have any insight as to their thinking on making these picks?
ID – I express my opinions and am as clear as I can be. Unlike some here, I seek no validation from anonymous posters on a blog.
MLBTR – Yanks not interested on Beltran
I was questioning taking called strikes vs. swinging strikes and foul balls for strikes. The difficulty of how you get strike 3 is of non interest to me.
–
28% looking, 14% swinging, 27% foul, 31% in play. Enjoy.
hassey – don’t know, i don’t watch neimann pitch often to know if its physical or his motion/mechanics. the numbers scream a lack of control. He always walked this many guys in the minors too so, it may just be the way he pitches.
WCYF – Don’t fool yourself… If you were not seeking validation of your opinions, you would not be posting them on the internet.
Erin – I gave you the opening, you should have ran with it.
Hassey July 7th, 2011 at 12:23 pm
This is one MESSED up Yankee family
____
hahahahahaha too funny
I think the only one of the four that will shut us down is Price. Since we never seem to win pitching duels this year (if I’m wrong, someone please tell me), I expect AJ to do just enough to lose that day.
Otherwise, I’m taking my chances with all our guys int he other games…it’s going to come down to whether our offense is ON or OFF those days. Will the real Mark Teixeira please stand up and will the real Russell Martin please sit down.
jimbaumbach It’s a little surreal to see Roger and Debbie Clemens on line with lunch trays in the court cafeteria. Feels like a ESPN commercial.
Irreverent Discourse July 7th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
WCYF ? Don?t fool yourself? If you were not seeking validation of your opinions, you would not be posting them on the internet.
Erin ? I gave you the opening, you should have ran with it
**********************
I know. Bad move on my part. LOL
Sunny
I have no real insight, but I appreciate the change in topic!
IIRC, the Yankees had seen Culver in action and felt he had potential.
And just throwing it out there- perhaps there is some benefit to grabbing a kid out of HS so you can train them the way you want…and avoid any college horror stories you hear about over use.
What are you guys even talking about?
+1 to Jason Stark for that article on Jeter.
Thanks, Blake, I’m glad somebody read it.
Price is a better matchup than Shields who they can’t seem to understand that all he throws is changeups. Price throws a ton of 4 seamers….which they like.
Jerkface July 7th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
That’s great, you know full well what I was talking about.
What are you guys even talking about?
–
WCYF thinks that strike 3 is not difficult to get called.
Is it possible that both aesthetes and mathematicians can love baseball?
That’s great, you know full well what I was talking about.
–
Your pointless nitpicking that you supposedly don’t really care about despite posting a bunch about it?
YESNetwork Derek Jeter should be celebrated in every way possible, writes Chris Shearn: http://bit.ly/pXofzl
Thanks for the link Tom
should we all create an award for “best post of the month” or something, and coordinate with Chad to send that person an online gift certificate or something? there HAS to be at least one person out of everyone here that deserves a monthly prize for some of this golden material
nice links Tom and Erin
“WCYF thinks that strike 3 is not difficult to get called.”
Its not for Bartolo
Wow – I never notcied that before, but Erin DOES have nice links. But isn’t it inappropriate to tell her that?
Does anybody have the ESPN Insider to look at that Montero’s Trade Value article?
Hassey July 7th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
Wow ? I never notcied that before, but Erin DOES have nice links. But isn?t it inappropriate to tell her that?
******************
OMG
Jerkface July 7th, 2011 at 12:53 pm
What are you guys even talking about?
–
WCYF thinks that strike 3 is not difficult to get called.
============
Good for him.
I refuse to read any article that comes up with the dumbest idea ever, ie, trading Montero.
Its not for Bartolo
–
I wish Hughes would acquire his 2seamer through osmosis. 56% of Bartolo’s Ks are looking this year 8o
Jerkface July 7th, 2011 at 12:55 pm
That’s great, you know full well what I was talking about.
–
Your pointless nitpicking that you supposedly don’t really care about despite posting a bunch about it?
================
Last time. I wasn’t nitpicking anything. I was questioning the swinging and foul ball strikes (strike one and two) which you answered above.
should we all create an award for “best post of the month” or something, and coordinate with Chad to send that person an online gift certificate or something?
**********
I dont know. Wouldnt it be easier to give him “the worst/dummest post ever”? I mean that seems to happen on a daily basis. So they say.
What fascinates me is how someone can figure out what other screen name someone used on another blog? Talk about doing your research. Iv never posted elsewhere but I guess you would be able to figure me out by all the misspelled words and my m n m addiction.
Id like everyone to know Im feeling much better than yesterday and will be more careful from now on. Now back to your scheduled program.
Damn my insider sub ran out
http://joeposnanski.si.com/201.....rek-jeter/
Joe Pos wrote about Derek Jeter, he is a good writer.
56% of Bartolo’s Ks are looking this year 8o
*********
8o????
# sunny615 July 7th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
I’ve been reviewing the Yankees’ draft choices for the past couple of years – esp their first picks, and they’re curious to say the least. Esp, the past 2 years. All of the reviews I’ve read on Culver make him out to mediocre at best and a career mL at worst. The presumed philosophy of “picking the best player when they get to pick” seems at odds with the results so far. (Bleich, Heathcott, Culver, Bichette)… but I do recall a lot of people on here scratching their heads when the Yanks picked these players. I realize it’s still way early, but if they Yanks were picking straight up on talent, then why Culver? Bichette? Bleich? Certainly there were more “talented” players on the board when they picked. Obviously, $$ isn’t an issue, so anyone have any insight as to their thinking on making these picks?
———————————
This topic comes up alot on RAB. The Yankees seem to draft players that they like and don’t fall into the belief of drafting player X because he’s the best player on the board. There were a lot of fans upset over the Dante Jr. pick because there were some very talented players that they could have grabbed. I’m probably one of the few ppl that didn’t mind the Dante pick though.
The Culver and Bichette picks were bad…
“The Culver and Bichette picks were bad…”
I would only say so because I think they may coukd have gotten both later in the draft…..however we have no idea what kind of player either will be at this point. Culver has been playing better I’ve read and Dante is walking like crazy ….which is impressive at that age.
Culver’s an 18 year old hitting .296 and producing runs out of the 2 slot. Yeah,,,he’s just brutal.v
JF,
I wish Bartolo could teach that 2 seamer to all the pitchers…..
Culver’s an 18 year old hitting .296 and producing runs out of the 2 slot. Yeah,,,he’s just brutal.v
—
Where did I say he’s a bad player?
I mentioned this about 2 weeks ago. Im not a pro Reyes guy. I think his biggest weapon is his speed and seems to get nagging injuries on a yearly basis. I compare him a bit to Crawford where he hits for avg. no power and lots of speed to go with good defense. It scares me to think once that speed goes whats left. Do the pro Reyes people still good with signing him to a 5-7 year contract knowing his legs can give out at any given time?
56% of Bartolo’s Ks are looking this year 8o
======================
Flippin’ stat geek
blake’s right. It’s like in the NFL. You draft talent but you also like to draft value. That said, I have no idea if the Yankees had inside info that led them to believe that they would have been taken before their next pick.
blake ~
If you haven’t heard, another of your Heels is comin’ on up to the show!
Kyle Seager will be making his major league debut in Anaheim tonight – playing 3B for the Mariners. When your parent club is as impotent offensively as the M’s is, you simply cannot ignore stats like .455/.500/.673/1.173 …even if only comprised from 12 games at AAA.
Here’s hoping Kyle takes to the bigs as fast and as well as his former roomy at UNC, Dustin Ackley, who has reached base safely in all but one of the 16 major league games he’s played so far (and only gone hitless 3 times) posting .302/.367/.566/.933 (doing well vs. starters such as: Hamels, Sanchez, Cahill; and relievers like: Venters and Choate)
I’m loving that the kids are getting a chance to prove themselves. Seager will be the 11th rookie to play for the M’s and the 8th to make his major league debut this season. No one thought the M’s would go anywhere this season and, in the end, they likely won’t. But, I’d much rather watch youth struggle as they develop, knowing the future is bright, than watch aging vets in decline (as we have done much too often in the past, and even in the present, e.g., Bradley, Cust, Figgins)
Blake, Bichette is another 18 year old who hadn’t played baseball for more than a month. He’s not hitting, yet, but, he’s walking, not striking out and again, producing his share of runs.
JackCurryYES Leftover Biggio stuff on Jeter: “He’ll be one of 28 guys to do it in over 100-something years in baseball. It’s a really special thing.”
CompassRosy,
Nice. That’s awesome.
JackCurryYES More Biggio on Jeter He’s a great ambassador 4 the gm. He’s played in a difficult market. For a Yankee capt, u couldn’t have a better player
GB,
That sort of patience from a kid trying to prove he’s worthy of a #1 pick is impressive…..I have no idea but I coukd see that pick paying off one day…..just a feeling.
New Post: Pitching matchups vs. Jeter
blake July 7th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
GB,
That sort of patience from a kid trying to prove he’s worthy of a #1 pick is impressive…..I have no idea but I coukd see that pick paying off one day…..just a feeling.
———————————————————————————————————————-
62 plate appearances with 15 wa;ls and a sac fly, is worth looking into. As I said, he hadn’t played in more than a month and has been in 13 games. I guess patience insn’t such a virtue after all.
“I think they may coukd have gotten both”
“but I coukd see that pick paying off one day…”
*********
blake,
What the hell happened to your L key?