Second-half question: Was Soriano worth it?
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jul 11, 2011 
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The Yankees don’t build teams to win in the first half. It’s nice that the Pirates are still in the playoff hunt, but being in the hunt doesn’t mean much around here. The Yankees build teams to win in the postseason, and in that sense, Rafael Soriano might still be worth the money.
Dave Robertson has emerged as a dominant setup man, and guys like Cory Wade and Luis Ayala have been a real boost, but to make the Yankees bullpen nearly as good as it seemed to be in spring training, they’ll need someone like Soriano. He’s been out since May 17, but he’s closer to a return than any other injured Yankee.
“If I had to guess who would be first it would be Soriano,” Joe Girardi said. “He’s getting to a point where we could see him in a game fairly quickly.”
Sure, the Yankees could target a reliever at the trade deadline — bullpen arms are always available — but they’ve learned the hard way that relievers are an unreliable lot. They knew that before they signed Soriano, and they certainly know that now that they have him under contract. Soriano’s a sunk cost, and he’s at least as good as anyone the Yankees could acquire.
There’s risk involved with every reliever. The Yankees have already taken a risk on Soriano. The second half is the time to actually get something out of him, or consider him this season’s worst investment.
Associated Press photo
Was Soriano worth it?
I could answer that the day after he signed. NO
At this point I’m going to go ahead and say no. lol
teixeiramark25 Congrats to Harlem RBI for being shortlisted for the Beyond Sport Award! We were one of the 35 projects picked… http://fb.me/zQXxZ03G
We’ll find out about Soriano.
About K-Rod (from last thread) – I betcha he doesn’t get traded. I betcha other teams find that clause in his contract ($17.5M for next year) to be prohibitive. He’s a Met for this year and next. Lucky Fred.
awwww…..
teixeiramark25 @DRob30 Hey buddy, you are so deserving of the All-Star Game! Congrats and bring home a “W” for us!
He was worth the signing only if he returns to form and dominates the rest of the regular season and postseason.
Otherwise….no.
Here’s hoping he opts out at year’s end.
That’s a negative ghost rider.
This is like a troll post.
Erin-
Not surprised about K-Rod with Boras as his agent. Don’t suspect many contending teams need a closer at that price.
As to the question was Soriano worth it. I guess we’ll see! What version returns -the cantankerous, whining 2010 version, or the cantankerous, whining 2011 version, who is one recurrence of elbow soreness of being shut down for the season!!
Here’s hoping he opts out at year’s end.
GF-
With all the FA closers on the market, he’d be taking a paycut, however I’m with you.
I was totally for the Soriano signing, with the strong hope that signing him would give Joba a chance to start. When they didn’t do that, I was lukewarm on it.
I do think he will show value in second half and in play-offs, and will provide the insurance needed to cover for the injured Joba and also in case Mo or DRob go down. He may also play big in post-season.
Still, I think we could have filled the spot for less money and not lost the pick…and would pass if I had to do it all over again.
I think they overpaid but I see a scenario where he could be a productive option for Girardi. No way he will opt out!!!!!!!
I’m only hopeful that once healthy, Soriano will agree to pitch in games against AL East teams.
GF – I really have no opinion about Soriano opting out after this season. Chad nails it, the second half of the year is crunch time, as is October. If he does his job during this time, then he will have done what he was brought here to do, and be considered a good investment. Next season is next season. There’s nothing to say he can’t continue to perform at a high level.
How much of the disdain for Soriano is due to his sparkling public persona? If he was more outgoing, would opinion of him be different? Would he be more tolerable in pinstripes? Because, none of that is reason not to have him on the team. As long as he’s not toxic in the clubhouse, if he’s shutdown, then he’s worth having around.
KRod probably will be benched or cut with 54 appearances….LOL!
He’ll get his $3.5M payoff, and compete for a closer role for $8-9M this winter. No way he gets $17M ever again IMO.
I didn’t want Soriano I was looking to add Crawford….
Mell July 11th, 2011 at 3:11 pm
I’m only hopeful that once healthy, Soriano will agree to pitch in games against AL East teams.
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I don’t think that is in his contract.
Woah. Chad pumping out the posts today.
You sure you have enough material for 3 off days at this rate?
joeman July 11th, 2011 at 3:12 pm
I didn’t want Soriano I was looking to add Crawford…
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Have you SEEN his ERA?!?!
I’m only hopeful that once healthy, Soriano will agree to pitch in games against AL East teams.
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Please. This is reality, not some crazy fantasy world
If Sori performs in the postseason he’ll be worth it, much in the same way Marte has been worth it for his 2009 contributions.
Best nickname of 2011…for Sori… The Incredible Sulk. Not sure who coined it, but pretty funny.
# BoJo July 11th, 2011 at 3:13 pm
joeman July 11th, 2011 at 3:12 pm
I didn’t want Soriano I was looking to add Crawford…
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Have you SEEN his ERA?!?!
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haven’t even seen him
Woah. Chad pumping out the posts today.
=========================
He’s kicked a$$ today. However, “Was Soriano worth it?” leads me to believe that Chad is running out of 2nd half questions.
some sites have to stop the Bell to Yankees this season..not going to happen
Pretty cool that
Austin JacksonCurtis Granderson is leading off the All-Star Game and starting in CF!Regarding Arod, the big question I have is, will he play in fewer than 130 games in the regular season? He’s missed 8 already (I think), and he will miss however many while out for the surgery and rehab… and presumably will miss a few when he gets back, with the doubleheaders and regular days off (but if he pinch-hits, that counts as a game played).
So…. what will the final number be?
College Magazine sports writer, Ashley Melfi, was on hand for Jeter’s 3,000th hit. Check out her story with all the sights and sounds of the historic day.
http://www.collegemagazine.com.....3000th-Hit
He’s kicked a$$ today. However, “Was Soriano worth it?” leads me to believe that Chad is running out of 2nd half questions.
—
“Is CC Sabathia a total stud?”
“Is Brett Gardner fast?”
“Is Kevin Youkilis a big baby?”
plenty of tough questions still left unanswered…
That photo of Soriano above looks like he is the one passing a kidney stone.
have a question…how much muscle will joba add by the time he arrives next ST
So…. what will the final number be?
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Do you have money on it?
If Sori performs in the postseason he’ll be worth it, much in the same way Marte has been worth it for his 2009 contributions.
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Marte was making 4 million and didn’t cost a draft pick.
Bojo is spot on at 3:09. He can be a valuable member of the team but no way is he worth what it took to get him.
” Soriano’s a sunk cost, and he’s at least as good as anyone the Yankees could acquire.”
Chad-Your excellent posts-keep them coming. However I’m not confident with the above statement.
I’m preaching to the choir with regards to Mike Adams, a terrific reliever for at least the last 4 years, who is arb eligible and if traded for along with the remainder of Ludwick’s 6.775 M contract, would probably cost the Yankees less in terms of prospects.
With the remainder of this years schedule and only 5 off days plus two DH’ers the bullpen as currently constructed will be overtaxed!
have a question…how much muscle will joba add by the time he arrives next ST
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About as much as Marlon Brando in the 80′s
LGY July 11th, 2011 at 3:18 pm
Bojo is spot on at 3:09. He can be a valuable member of the team but no way is he worth what it took to get him.
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Thanks. I still think if his presence beyond this year allows the Yankees to move a cost-contolled Joba to SP, then it may be worth it after all. It all depends on what impact he has on Joba’s role. Getting a SP pitcher like what I think Joba can be is worth more than what we paid for Soriano.
I’ll decide whether Soriano was worth it at the end of the season. If he’s top of the line in a couple of post season wins, he’s worth it. Was Marte worth it? Was Lloyd and Weathers worth it in 1996? As far as I’m concerned, money plays no part in it.
# Joe from Long Island July 11th, 2011 at 3:11 pm
GF – I really have no opinion about Soriano opting out after this season. Chad nails it, the second half of the year is crunch time, as is October. If he does his job during this time, then he will have done what he was brought here to do, and be considered a good investment. Next season is next season. There’s nothing to say he can’t continue to perform at a high level.
How much of the disdain for Soriano is due to his sparkling public persona? If he was more outgoing, would opinion of him be different? Would he be more tolerable in pinstripes? Because, none of that is reason not to have him on the team. As long as he’s not toxic in the clubhouse, if he’s shutdown, then he’s worth having around.
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You’re absolutely right – the second half is indeed crunch time. If he can essentially do what Wood did last season or even what Marte did in the 2009 postseason, Soriano would certainly have been worth it.
Soriano’s demeanor and reputation probably has A LOT to do with the fans’ opinion of him. I have no doubt about that.
For me, though, it doesn’t really make any difference. I don’t care if he is a teddy bear or a pit bull in the clubhouse. Admittedly, there’s probably some bias in my assessment of him because I wasn’t in favor of the decision to sign him in the first place.
joeman-
I’m guessing Heath Bell signs with his major league club the Red Sox as a FA, while they let Papelbon go.
I’d be happy if the Yankees got rid of Jones and brought in a cheaper option like Reed Johnson along with the return of Kerry Wood.
Giuseppe Franco July 11th, 2011 at 3:06 pm
Here’s hoping he opts out at year’s end.
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The problem with his opting out is that he is still owed $25M over the next two seasons. With what he has produced so far this year, there is no possible way he would get more then that on the open market after the season. Even if he comes back and has a second half on par with his 2010 numbers, I think other teams would be reluctant to give him that kind of $. Unfortunately (or so it seems right now anyway) I think we are probably stuck with him for 2012 and most probably 2013 as well.
I’ll decide whether Soriano was worth it at the end of the season. If he’s top of the line in a couple of post season wins, he’s worth it. Was Marte worth it? Was Lloyd and Weathers worth it in 1996? As far as I’m concerned, money plays no part in it.
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Yeah that’s true I guess. Marte is pretty much worth his contract based on 2009 postseason alone. He was lights out
Yankee Trader July 11th, 2011 at 3:18 pm
With the remainder of this years schedule and only 5 off days plus two DH’ers the bullpen as currently constructed will be overtaxed!
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I think they’ll have flexibility to rotate players from SWB in as needed.
Joba who?
If Soriano does come back healthy he needs to have a correct attitude and forget what Cashman said about his signing. Accept the role he’s given.
About as much as Marlon Brando in the 80?s
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I read somewhere that he had padlocks on his fridge but he would have assisstants tossing Big Macs over the walls surrounding his house.
BryanHoch Cano confirms his dad will throw to him in HR derby
GB-
Did the Yankees win a WS with David Weathers? I agree. In order for the Soriano signing to be worth it this year he has to contribute to Yankees title #28 this year.
I read somewhere that he had padlocks on his fridge but he would have assisstants tossing Big Macs over the walls surrounding his house.
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What is Joba’s big mac tossing velocity? I think it’s down this year
West Coast Yankee Fan July 11th, 2011 at 3:25 pm
Joba who?
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Here’s another question Chad can post and get a vote on….
WCYF–Childish troll or just stupid? Cast your votes now.
# Yankee Trader July 11th, 2011 at 3:22 pm
joeman-
I’m guessing Heath Bell signs with his major league club the Red Sox as a FA, while they let Papelbon go.
I’d be happy if the Yankees got rid of Jones and brought in a cheaper option like Reed Johnson along with the return of Kerry Wood.
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don’t know about Bell and the Sox,Paps could stay or go but they do like Bard and his 100 mph fastball plus his $500 dime salary
Sox are going to need a SS & LF next year for sure
Bojo,
Yes.
make it a RF
Someone above commented on whether Soriano was “toxic” in the clubhouse. I don’t know the answer to this, but his public personna in NY has not been one thick with warm and fuzzies. Can’t help but count our blessings that Mo has not only been superman on the mound, but also a bonifide mentor to others in the bullpen, a quiet, strong presense in the clubhouse, a team player, willing to do whatever the manager needs of him, and a genuinely nice person to boot. It seems they broke the mold with him–most of the other elite closers seem to have a real prima donna complexes…
tomingeorgia July 11th, 2011 at 3:30 pm
Bojo,
Yes.
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LOL!
If Soriano turns out to be worth the contract, it will only be because, as was speculated on at MLB Trade Rumors, Mo’s triceps injury turns out to be worse than it seems, and Soriano recovers, stays healthy, and pitches to his absolute ceiling.
Bojo-
What SWB relievers are you guessing that have options left and could really contribute during September’s pennant chase?
Kontos, Flores, Carlyle, Whelan, Pendleton, Wordkemper, Pope, Schmidt, Kensing
# sammiejohnson July 11th, 2011 at 3:22 pm
Giuseppe Franco July 11th, 2011 at 3:06 pm
Here’s hoping he opts out at year’s end.
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The problem with his opting out is that he is still owed $25M over the next two seasons. With what he has produced so far this year, there is no possible way he would get more then that on the open market after the season. Even if he comes back and has a second half on par with his 2010 numbers, I think other teams would be reluctant to give him that kind of $. Unfortunately (or so it seems right now anyway) I think we are probably stuck with him for 2012 and most probably 2013 as well.
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There’s still a lot of baseball left in the season.
If he comes back and pitches like he did last season and becomes a very important piece to this team, then the first half of 2011 won’t really matter much.
Granted, that’s probably the best case scenario. But it’s not completely unrealistic because he does have a track record of success.
If that happens, he could opt out and hope to find a closer’s job somewhere else. I’m keeping my fingers crossed.
With Joba out the Yankees need Soriano to be worth it in the 2nd half……whether he will or not I have no idea but there is still plenty of time for him to show his worth.
Ledger_Yankees BTW I’ll jump in with Granderson. I know the rest of the beat has seen this too, but Cano is capable of putting on a laser show in BP.
How about using Tex at 3rd for a game here or there while A Rod is out? Throw Sado or Swish at first and get another bat in the lineup.
Adding a corner OF with some pop is going to be easier than adding a 3rd baseman worth anything to the team.
Here’s another question Chad can post and get a vote on.
Bojo – Childish troll? Just stupid? Or was it his cat?
jnorris427 Josh Norris
More bad news: It sounds like Nik Turley will be out a few weeks to a month with a broken hand. Took a liner off it. #Yankees
He was pitching really well. Lefty, too. Sigh.
Via MLBTR… Prince Fielder open to DH role next season… would be a nice bat to add to lineup and a usable sub for Tex at first
Hindsight always being what it is, you have to put the Soriano signing in context – Lee not coming to NY, Andy hanging it up, and the uncertainty surrounding what the NYYs would get on the market in terms of SP. With Garcia and Colon contributing what they have, you look back and say you could pass on Soriano.
Given the situation at the time, it was a good call and as GB said, the $$ really don’t matter.
If he comes back in the 2nd half and adds the back end strength to keep Freddie and Bartolo strong through the end, yes, it was worth it.
Yankee Trader July 11th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
GB-
Did the Yankees win a WS with David Weathers? I agree. In order for the Soriano signing to be worth it this year he has to contribute to Yankees title #28 this year.
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Trader, as I remember it, both Weathers and Lloyd almost were left off of the ALDC rosters. Lloyd or Ricky Bones was compensation for getting an injured Pat Listach from Milwaukee. They were brutally bad. Somewhere, they found something, because they came up with sensational WS outings.
Yankee Trader July 11th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
Bojo-
What SWB relievers are you guessing that have options left and could really contribute during September’s pennant chase?
Kontos, Flores, Carlyle, Whelan, Pendleton, Wordkemper, Pope, Schmidt, Kensing
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First, you mention September, and I would say that we should remember we can call up a lot more help then Boston or Tampa. Players like Golson, Dickerson, Laird, etc will help the bench greatly in about 6 weeks.
As for pitchers who can be brought up, we have Nova, Mitchell, Hall, Betances, Banuelos, and perhaps Prior. I mention the 2 Bs because they may have a low enough innings count to be brought up for help. I wouldn’t put it past Cashman–regardless of whathe says.
Third, a lot of players are always available between now and the end of year–whether through trade or waivers.
Looks like Brad Lidge will be ready to return soon. He pitched a scoreless 2 strikeout inning in todays 11 inning reading win over Trenton. Venditte took the loss 7-6.
And if Soriano comes back to take some of the 2nd half burden off of the shoulders of the 2011 All Star game winning pitcher – David Robertson – then yes, he is really worth it.
Via MLBTR… Prince Fielder open to DH role next season… would be a nice bat to add to lineup and a usable sub for Tex at first
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Kinda doubt the Yankees will go $20M per, long term for a DH, no matter who he is.
Giuseppe Franco July 11th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
There’s still a lot of baseball left in the season.
If he comes back and pitches like he did last season and becomes a very important piece to this team, then the first half of 2011 won’t really matter much.
Granted, that’s probably the best case scenario. But it’s not completely unrealistic because he does have a track record of success.
If that happens, he could opt out and hope to find a closer’s job somewhere else. I’m keeping my fingers crossed.
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I am with you. It’s certainly possible, I am just not sure how probable.
At the time of the signing I thought that this contract was a no-win situation for the FO. If he did opt-out it would mean that he had a monster season and we would not want him to opt-out. If he did not opt-out, that would mean that he had probably had a sub par season and we would be wishing he would. I am not going to go into the pros and cons of should we have signed Soriano. But it seems that the contract itself is very badly structured from the team’s pov.
Looks like Brad Lidge will be ready to return soon. He pitched a scoreless 2 strikeout inning in todays 11 inning reading win over Trenton. Venditte took the loss 7-6.
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Yikes. Thunder are in a serious funk. 9 straight in the “L” column. Never figured on that with the pitching they have down there.
Bojo-
I’d have no problem with the Yankees putting some of their talented minor league starters in the bullpen just before September 1st so they’d be eligible for the postseason. Maybe they’ll catch lightning in a bottle like the Angels did with a young K-Rod.
Yankeefem
Turley hadn’t been as good in Tampa as he was in Charleston. Losing that time to adjust to the league is going to mean he has to work even harder when he gets back.
And I see Norris reported what I told you yesterday. Funny that he broke the news the day after I found out.
I was all for signing Fielder and I would still like to see it – but I understand that it most likely isn’t in the cards. We are going to be sporting a revolving door DH as A-Rod, Jeter and others age.
I have money on Arod’s homer and RBI totals, which could be on life support.
But the bets are No Action if he plays in fewer than 130 games. Unless he gets the totals anyway, then I would win.
But if he plays in 130 or more and doesn’t reach the totals, I lose.
Here are some additional 2nd half questions:
Will we ever see Eric Chavez in pinstripes again?
Will Phil Hughes still be in the rotation come the end of the season?
Will Derek Jeter still be hitting in the leadoff spot?
Will the Yankees win a home game against the Red Sox this year?
Will Jesus Montero play a Major League game in 2011?
Will CC Sabathia win the Cy Young this year?
Will the Yankees win the pennant, the wild card or miss the playoffs altogether?
On paper, no. No reliever outside of Mo is worth what he got. In general.
But for the Yankees with their payroll, if he had pitched the entire 3 years like he pitched last year, he might have been worth it.
“And if Soriano comes back to take some of the 2nd half burden off of the shoulders of the 2011 All Star game winning pitcher – David Robertson – then yes, he is really worth it.”
No 2nd half is worth a first round pick in a very deep draft for a setup reliever. He has to contribute far more over a longer time horizon. That’s unlikely, which is why hindsight doesn’t even factor into it.
I think ultimately that the Soriano signing will prove to be worth it if only because it will cast doubts on future Randy Levine suggestions.
Yankees Curtis Granderson talks to reporters during @AllStarGame media availability … http://atmlb.com/ncdtwz
swbyankeesTT I have confirmed that Kanekoa Texeira was re-signed by Yanks after being released.
Is that a question?
New York Yankees shortstop Derek Jeter will not attend the All-Star Game because of “emotional and physical exhaustion” from his pursuit of 3,000 hits, according to two people with knowledge of his mindset.
One source close to Jeter speculated that the shortstop might have reversed course if he had reached 3,000 hits earlier last week and had time to “decompress.” But Jeter had no such time; he would have had to board a flight to Phoenix after Sunday’s game, just one day after his big moment.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....ion-071111
Karl Ravech sucking up to Poopi Ortiz during the HRD Presser. Too bad he is making the MLB Network unwatchable currently.
I don’t get why people are criticizing Jeter for not attending the all star game. These were the same people complaining that he shouldn’t have been voted into the game to begin with!
You can’t just write off the contract of every player that plays a few good games or throws a few good innings in the post season.
Game 2 of the 09 WS is worth $82.5 according to some. Marte doing well that postseason is worth $12 million. If Sori performs in the postseason he is apparently worth his riduculous cost. And so on.
Yankee fans seem to easily willing to write off bad contracts.
There has to be a line somewhere.
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Kinda doubt the Yankees will go $20M per, long term for a DH, no matter who he is
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They already did only his DH days are a few years away (hopefully)
For someone who’s biggest contribution to the game is an oversized beard Brian Wilson talks a lot of smack.
New Post- Second-half question: Do you believe in Greg Golson?
Karl Ravech sucking up to Poopi Ortiz during the HRD Presser. Too bad he is making the MLB Network unwatchable currently
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Hang in there. Sooner or later it will be a Yankee’s turn for a Ravech ball washing.
Will we ever see Eric Chavez in pinstripes again?-YES
Will Phil Hughes still be in the rotation come the end of the season? NO He’ll be in the bullpen for the postseason.
Will Derek Jeter still be hitting in the leadoff spot? YES
Will the Yankees win a home game against the Red Sox this year?-DEFINITELY
Will Jesus Montero play a Major League game in 2011?- YES I hope it’s as a Yankee.
Will CC Sabathia win the Cy Young this year? Hmm! I think it’ll be Verlander,
Will the Yankees win the pennant, the wild card or miss the playoffs altogether? They’ll go all the way!!!!
tyanks, Turley was still adjusting to the bump up to A+. He has pitched under 10 innings at Tampa. Bummer for him that he is going to lose time. Hopefully, it will be more like 2 weeks than a month.
They are positively speechless. They dont know what to say. Perfect!!!