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Yankees at the break: The bullpen

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jul 12, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

This was supposed to be the Yankees obvious strength, instead they’ve spent the season plugging holes and moving Dave Robertson into later and later innings. At this rate, he’ll be their designated 10th-inning reliever by mid-August. The Yankees bullpen has held it together despite a series of injuries and a few disappointments.

First half
The problems started when Pedro Feliciano couldn’t break camp. Pretty soon Phil Hughes was hurt, which forced Bartolo Colon out of the bullpen and into the rotation. Then Rafael Soriano went on the disabled list. Then Joba Chamberlain needed Tommy John. If not for Robertson’s all-star performance, the Yankees bullpen would be a mess. Given the situation, though, it’s been pretty good. CoryWade’s been a nice pickup, Luis Ayala has given the Yankees more than they could have expected, Hector Noesi has filled in from minor league system and Boone Logan has finally had some success after a brutal beginning. All things considered, the situation could be much worse.

Second half
At this point, Damaso Marte actually seems closer to a return than Feliciano, but the guy the Yankees really need to get back is Soriano. He would give the bullpen some of the late-inning depth that made it so imposing when pitchers and catchers reported to spring training. Logan’s shown some recent signs of getting himself straightened out, and that could also be huge in the second half (he was certainly crucial in the second half last season). Every year, relievers are among the most discussed trade possibilities, but it’s worth remembering that last year’s bullpen addition – Kerry Wood – had ugly numbers and was coming back from an injury when the Yankees acquired him. You just never know who might make the difference in a bullpen.

The minors
The Yankees have already seen a long line of long relievers up from Triple-A. At this point, George Kontos might have moved to the top of the pecking order. Temporarily lost in the Rule 5 draft this offseason, Kontos has been outstanding with a 2.26 ERA and 59 strikeouts for Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. Back from Tommy John surgery, he seems to have regained a lot of his prospect status. The Yankees also have right-hander Kevin Whelan and veteran lefty Randy Flores putting up good Triple-A numbers. And don’t forget the name Tim Norton. He was terrific before a shoulder injury, and Donnie Collins has reported that he could be back soon.

Beyond the relievers on the verge of the big leagues, the Yankees have had great success with some of the college relievers that they drafted last year. Chase Whitley has already pitched his way to Double-A, Preston Claiborne has a 1.17 ERA and 24 strikeouts in his past 10 outings at High-A, and Tommy Kahnle has a 68 strikeouts and a .194 opponents batting average in Low-A. Ryan Flannery, a 47th-rounder in 2008, has 13 saves and has allowed a total of two walks out of the Tampa bullpen (and this is the second year in a row he’s shown outstanding control). Everyone’s favorite switch pitcher, Pat Venditte, has pitched pretty well in Trenton after a miserable first month.

One question
Is there a new version of Hughes or Chamberlain waiting in the system?
In the past, the Yankees had great success moving Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain out of the Triple-A rotation and into a big league setup role. Could they try a similar trick this season? The Triple-A rotation has been impressive, and guys like Adam Warren and David Phelps have fastballs that might translate to late-inning success. Ivan Nova, too.

The future
The Yankees have Mariano Rivera under contract for one more year, so they don’t have to find his replacement just yet. Soriano can opt out after this season, but surely that’s not going to happen after an injury. Robertson is just now eligible for arbitration, so he’ll still be incredibly cheap. Those are three pretty important pieces coming back next year, and the Yankees should get Chamberlain back at some point next season. There are pieces already in place for next year and beyond. What’s left is for the Yankees to sort through their upper-level pitching depth to decide who can help their rotation, and who’s better suited for a bullpen role in the near future.

Associated Press photos of Rivera and Robertson, headshots of Kontos, Claiborne and Chamberlain

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241 Responses to “Yankees at the break: The bullpen”

  1. Bret The Hitman July 12th, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    What, no Joakim Soria?

  2. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    Giuseppe Franco July 12th, 2011 at 6:01 pm
    # Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    Well he was pretty effective in the AL for a long time right?

    Sure it’s a risk, but then again so is giving CJ Wilson a 5 year $88 mil contract; so would have been giving Cliff Lee a 7 year deal. This is a short term risk.

    ———-

    Oh, c’mon. You can’t really compare the Santana of 2001-2007 to the one who hasn’t pitched this season yet and just had major shoulder surgery.

    He’s not the same pitcher, even if he does come back healthy.

    Besides, what makes you think CJ Wilson is going to be a Yankee next season?

    All the speculation and rumor mongering is BS at this point. A lot can happen between now and the offseason.

    ———————-

    What makes me think the Yankees will go hard after one of the better pitchers available on an otherwise thin free agent market….gee I can’t hardly imagine.

    Really? You think the Yankees are going to say – eh, we don’t need to go after pitching. Look how well we did with Garcia and Colon – that’s likely to repeat itself next year.

  3. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    Wilson is not a NY type of player. More of a nutcase California type or a cowboy.

  4. Giuseppe Franco July 12th, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    # Chip July 12th, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    ———————-

    What makes me think the Yankees will go hard after one of the better pitchers available on an otherwise thin free agent market….gee I can’t hardly imagine.

    Really? You think the Yankees are going to say – eh, we don’t need to go after pitching. Look how well we did with Garcia and Colon – that’s likely to repeat itself next year.

    ————

    They do have plenty of chips on the farm for someone they may desire. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Besides, even if the Yanks do want him, that doesn’t mean he wants them.

    Don’t go out and buy your Yankee CJ Wilson jersey just yet.

  5. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    The BP has been the biggest surprise of the season to me so far.

    Murphy’s law struck with a vengance.

    Great job of patching it together so far.

    D-Rob is a star.

    Soriano is the BP’s X factor.

    We could use another arm to nullify left-handed batters.

  6. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 6:14 pm

    Another reliever that’s made the jump to High A Tampa in one year is Daniel Burawa. big fastball.

  7. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    GB-

    Couldn’t Norton help if he can stay healthy ?

  8. G. Love July 12th, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    Chip,

    I don’t see the Yankees or anyone going after Johan before he’s healthy and back on the mound showing what his stuff looks like.

    He’s a 20 million plus player. Teams are not that cavalier with their dollars to trade anything for a guy off of shoulder surgery who hasn’t proven himself yet.

    Look at the journey poor Wang had to take. Once the Yankees let him go teams weren’t exactly tripping over themselves with open checkbooks looking to lock him up.

    On the flip side if Johan comes back and pitches well, the Mets would be morons to trade him. They need starting pitching as that organization has nothing.

    That said, if he’s healthy and pitching well then it would be the right time to discuss how the Yankees should target him.

    Right now, it seems like you’re fixated on it for a personal reason and not thinking in terms of how the front office would view the idea of trading actual major league talent for a guy who hasn’t even thrown competitively yet.

    That kind of deal gets someone fired. Yes, it’s bold to believe in him and buy low, but now with 80 million plus remaining on his deal.

    Let’s see what kind of stuff he shows before you place him atop your target list right now. He may not even pitch this season for all we know.

    If he doesn’t pitch competitively this season, would you still trade for him in the off season?

  9. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    MTU, Norton would have been in NY a week ago instead of Carlyle or Marquez without the injury.

  10. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    GB-

    Is he on the mend ?

    What’s his ETA ?

    I heard his injury was not as serious as 1st thought ?

  11. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    MTU, Chad says his source has it shortly and I read Jodsh Norris having it from 10 days to 2 weeks.

  12. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    ***Josh Norris***

  13. Betsy July 12th, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    I have absolutely no interest in Johan Santana……..

  14. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    I’m guessing that Montero is DHing when Scranton plays on Thursday. David Phelps should return within the next week or so. Just in time for a couple of starts before the trade deadline.

  15. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 6:29 pm

    Scranton’s going to have a real roster crunch shortly, as will Trenton.

  16. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    GB-

    Thanks. appreciate it.

  17. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    Enjoy the Game folks.

  18. austinmac July 12th, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    GB,

    Doesn’t the numbers crunch mean they have to move some players?

  19. BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    This spring, I thought Santana might be very intriguing as a pick up with 2012 in mind. I debated the point with articles about his surgery and expected recovery process…it seemed like a trade I thought would benefit us with a second ace.

    I don’t feel that way any more. His progress back from surgery has been slower than was first anticipated, and it may take him several months of recovery before he is back to where he once was. In my mind, it looks like he may be a target for trade in July of 2012.

    But at that point, I really have to wonder if he is worth acquiring. Same for CJ Wilson.

    The strategy Cashman committed to was to draft depth at pitching so he would have a stable of young arms that could be used to fill in the rotation and bullpen. He was looking to be less reliant on over-paying for pitchers over 30 (except as a stop gap until his prospects were ready). And if a veteran was needed, he would scout around for bargains for the 4th or 5th spot rather than overpay for a #2 or #3.

    I believe we are seeing the fruits of his strategy come to bloom. Nova, Noesi, Hughes, Chamberlain, Betances, Banuelos, etc all provide the type of depth and talent that should keep us competitive in the future.

    Unless a #1 Ace in mid-20s appears available, there is no reason to acquire any other SP or releiver (except maybe a LOOGY like Choate).

  20. 108 stitches July 12th, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    Cashman can start by DFA-ing Mitre and getting LH Randy Choate from the Marlins for pieces not deemed as part of the Yankee future.
    No guarantees that Marte and Feliciano will return this year. Can’t take a chance that Boone Logan will get burned out with the heavy road schedule of August and September.

  21. BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 6:55 pm

    In fact, I think Cashman has basically said there is nothing available in market that is better than what he already has. Thus, no to Santana, no to Wilson, no to anybody except top #1s like Felix, Kershaw, and maybe one or two others.

    And regrettably, it probably also means no to Gio.

  22. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    Part of the reason Jeter skipped #AllStarGame was he wanted to rest calf in preparation for this weekend on Toronto turf. #Yankees

    Damned….that makes no sense at all. Only the next 8 games are on turf.

  23. BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    BTW–there is also a big benefit that no one ever considers in going with our own prospects. Specifically, they are brought up to thrive in the pressure of NY, and by the time they get here, they have proven themselves as players who can do it here. THere is no such guarantee when we acquire players from others organizations.

  24. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    austinmac July 12th, 2011 at 6:45 pm
    GB,

    Doesn’t the numbers crunch mean they have to move some players?

    ————————————————————————————————————————

    Yeah, Mac, Scranton has 9 players on the DL and 6 are scheduled to return within the next 2 weeks amd Trenton has 7, most of them pitchers with 4 or 5 due back…like Stoneburner.

  25. Ghostwriter July 12th, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    “Given the situation, though, it’s [the bullpen] been pretty good.”

    I disagree with this assessment. The bullpen has been good–period. I don’t think that how good the ‘pen has been needs to be qualified in terms of the injuries sustained. It has the second-best ERA in the American League (3.11), and it is 11 and 9. Besides a handful of blown saves, there isn’t much to complain about in this department at all. It was expected to be a strength at preseason, and has been a strength despite weathering significant injuries. The credit for the resilience of the ‘pen should go to Cashman, with his shrewd acquisitions, Girardi, Rothschild, and of course Rivera, Robertson, Noesi, and to a lesser degree, Wade and Logan.

    The returns of Soriano, Marte, and/or Feliciano could deepen and strengthen the ‘pen further still. However, the Yanks shouldn’t hurry anybody back before they’re read. And I wouldn’t short-change an of the guys that have been getting it done for us. Soriano can earn back the eighth inning, as far I’m concerned.

  26. LGY July 12th, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    In fact, I think Cashman has basically said there is nothing available in market that is better than what he already has. Thus, no to Santana, no to Wilson, no to anybody except top #1s like Felix, Kershaw, and maybe one or two others. And regrettably, it probably also means no to Gio.

    ——-

    He’s talking about the trade market right now.

    Plus Cashman says a lot of things that aren’t true.

  27. BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 7:03 pm

    LGY July 12th, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    He’s talking about the trade market right now.

    Plus Cashman says a lot of things that aren’t true.
    _________
    What makes the trade market now different than any other time? Will he get a better bargain on a pitcher in winter? Will some team suddenly change their mind on an Ace difference maker and decide to move him for a cheaper price?

  28. BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    In other words LGY, name me 5 pitchers that would make a significant difference to the Yankees above what we already have, and tell me what difference now versus another time makes in acquiring them.

    These pitchers have to be lights out in play-offs and guarantee us wins…not just good enough to start ahead of Hughes or Burnett.

  29. Bret The Hitman July 12th, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    No to Gio?

    I won’t stand for it!

    :lol:

  30. Ghostwriter July 12th, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    Ghostwriter July 12th, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    —————

    Oh yeah, I also should have given credit to the starters for the terrific performance of the ‘pen. With the starters pitching deep into games on a regular basis, they have kept the workload for the relievers quite manageable. The importance of the starting rotation in this regard can’t be overemphasized.

  31. BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    And of course, those players have to be on teams that would deal the player to the Yankees…

  32. BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    Bret The Hitman July 12th, 2011 at 7:05 pm
    No to Gio?

    I won’t stand for it!
    ____
    A GIO recovery blog is being set up as we chat.

  33. LGY July 12th, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    What makes the trade market now different than any other time? Will he get a better bargain on a pitcher in winter? Will some team suddenly change their mind on an Ace difference maker and decide to move him for a cheaper price?

    ——–

    Of course.

    The trade market changes constantly especially as players get closer to free agency.

  34. Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    Trade market also changes as signings or other trades are made.

  35. BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    LGY July 12th, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    The trade market changes constantly especially as players get closer to free agency.
    ______
    So the players you are thinking about would be approaching 30 and be expensive, plus require talent in return.

    I don’t see Cashman pursuing that approach much more. It is better to have a depth of pitching talent like Nova than one such older arm that might get injured and is much more expensive.

    Again, unless it is a #1 Ace who can guarantee 2 wins in a play-off series, I’d go with the depth we have rahter than dilute our options for someone not much better than what we already have.

  36. pat July 12th, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    AndrewMarchand After HR Derby, A-Rod texted @RobinsonCano and said, “Good job, so proud of you, man.”

  37. BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 7:12 pm
    Trade market also changes as signings or other trades are made.
    ____
    We’re talking about top of rotation aces that are significant upgrade than the depth we already have. Cashman changed the organizational strategy becuase his assessment was those guys are going to be easily available in the future. More and more, they are being locked up to long term deals.

    Just name me 5 that are available or will be this winter, or even next year.

  38. Ghostwriter July 12th, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    LGY July 12th, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    The trade market changes constantly especially as players get closer to free agency.
    ______
    So the players you are thinking about would be approaching 30 and be expensive, plus require talent in return.

    I don’t see Cashman pursuing that approach much more. It is better to have a depth of pitching talent like Nova than one such older arm that might get injured and is much more expensive.

    Again, unless it is a #1 Ace who can guarantee 2 wins in a play-off series, I’d go with the depth we have rahter than dilute our options for someone not much better than what we already have.
    =================
    Spot on.

  39. BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    Correction
    those guys are NOT going to be easily available in the future

  40. LGY July 12th, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    Everyone obviously wants an Ace, but there is a huge gap between AJ Burnett and a #1.

    There are a bunch of non Ace pitchers that can really help this team now and esp over the winter when Colon and Freddy are a year older and FAs.

    And who the hell knows at this point what Hughes will provide?

  41. Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    There probably won’t be 5 super good guys available.

    Jered Weaver
    Felix Hernandez MAYBE
    Dan Haren MAYBE
    Matt Cain MAYBE

    Eh Im too lazy to go through every team, thats all I can think of off the top of my head right now. Theres not a lot out there. Of course, this can change, which is my only point.

  42. LGY July 12th, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    When did Cashman change his strategy?

    He offered Montero for a few months of Lee!

    The only reason he went this route is because he was desperate after failing to land Lee and HAD TO.

  43. Yankee Trader July 12th, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    Gio Gonzalez- Is he really that good. Looking at his last 10 games he’s pitched. All 5 away games from the friendly confines in Oakland were losses, the last a blowout to Texas. Attached his stats:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/8179

  44. Betsy July 12th, 2011 at 7:20 pm

    Awe, I love Alex..he’s really supportive of Robbie

    LGY, like who?

  45. Ghostwriter July 12th, 2011 at 7:20 pm

    LGY July 12th, 2011 at 7:17 pm
    .

    There are a bunch of non Ace pitchers that can really help this team now …

    Who (a couple of examples)? And who would you bump from the rotation for the new guy?

  46. LGY July 12th, 2011 at 7:20 pm

    The 2013 FA pitching market is great.

    Therefore leading up to that the 2012 trade market should be strong.

  47. BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    LGY July 12th, 2011 at 7:17 pm
    Everyone obviously wants an Ace, but there is a huge gap between AJ Burnett and a #1.

    There are a bunch of non Ace pitchers that can really help this team now and esp over the winter when Colon and Freddy are a year older and FAs.

    And who the hell knows at this point what Hughes will provide?
    ______________
    Who knows what any of the second tier pitchers will provide? That’s the point of building up depth with several young arms that can fill in if a Hughes goes down or Colon burns out.

    Cashman has used vets to serve as a bridge between 2006 and 2012-13 when his eggs will finally hatch into major league pitchers. He has enough talent at SWB to not have to overpay for the second tier pitcher anymore.

  48. Ghostwriter July 12th, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    At this point you have to consider Gio an ace. The A’s aren’t moving him until they absolutely must.

  49. blake July 12th, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    I don’t see the Yankees being in on Wilson if his market is an AJ or Lackey deal. If it were 3 years Id be very interested…….im expecting him to either go back to Texas or for a team like the Nationals to sign him to a bad contract.

    I have no real comment on Santana until I see that he comes back and see what he is when he comes back. If he came back and was Johan Santana again……or.anywhere close to that then sure….u take a look.

  50. BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 7:19 pm
    There probably won’t be 5 super good guys available.

    Jered Weaver
    Felix Hernandez MAYBE
    Dan Haren MAYBE
    Matt Cain MAYBE

    Eh Im too lazy to go through every team, thats all I can think of off the top of my head right now. Theres not a lot out there. Of course, this can change, which is my only point.
    ___
    Thanks for the effort. Always good thoughts, but
    Weaver in NYC? I don’t buy it
    Felix-not available
    Haren–not available
    Cain–will be re-signed…not available
    Josh Johnson–not available
    etc.

    There aren’t any or Cashman would be giving up the farm now for them.

  51. LGY July 12th, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    Who (a couple of examples)? And who would you bump from the rotation for the new guy?

    ——–

    Anibal, CJ Wilson, Cain, Ubaldo, Greinke, Marcum, Kuroda, Billingsley, Gavin Floyd, Danks just off the top of ny head.

  52. Betsy July 12th, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    Jimenez is an ace when on and if he’s really available, then I wouldn’t want him because there should be no reason why the Rockies would deal him. I’d kill for Cain, but who are you going to trade for him? No thanks on Greinke.

  53. Ghostwriter July 12th, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    The Yanks have so much redundancy in the minors that they could afford to trade away Kennedy, Coke, and to a lesser degree, Melancon. They also were able to weather Joba’s failure to keep his spot in the rotation, and Hughes’ injury woes. And they still have Nova. It doesn’t make a heck of a lot of sense to go out and trade for pitching, unless it is MUCH better than what you have in-house, assuming that the Yanks don’t deplete their depth trading away for other parts..

  54. Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    Weaver in NYC? I don’t buy it
    Felix-not available
    Haren–not available
    Cain–will be re-signed…not available

    You asked me who might be available, I gave you a list. Felix could always be traded, or Pineda. The Mariners are going youth heavy. Haren is a FA after 2012 with an option so that instantly makes him an attractive trade target if the angels really wanted. Cain is a free agent after 2012 you have no idea if the giants re-sign him or not. Weaver will definitely be AVAILABLE. If cashman deals or not is another issue.

  55. BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 7:28 pm

    LGY July 12th, 2011 at 7:19 pm
    When did Cashman change his strategy?

    He offered Montero for a few months of Lee!

    The only reason he went this route is because he was desperate after failing to land Lee and HAD TO.
    ____
    In 2006, he changed the strategy. He had scouting focus on high ceiling pitchers, and was going to sign a few FA pitchers to buy time until hey became ready.

    He felt Lee was important because he had concerns about Hughes innings and wanted more certainty in play-offs (with an ACe difference maker), and also felt that Lee could be re-signed.

    Lee is the example that reinforces my point…An Ace #1 pitcher who can win 2 games per paly-off series will be pursued, but that pursuit is no guarantee of landing him. Which is why Cashman wanted the depth in first place.

  56. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    “I’d kill for Cain”

    No need.

    He’s perfectly capable of doing that for himself. He’s done so in the past.

    :)

  57. Ghostwriter July 12th, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    A lot of teams seem to be trying to lock up their young talent before free agency hits.

  58. Yankee Trader July 12th, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    Ghostwriter-

    Gio Gonzalez- Is he really that good. Looking at his last 10 games he’s pitched. All 5 away games from the friendly confines in Oakland were losses, the last a blowout to Texas. Attached his stats:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/8179

    Bojo-

    Terrific line!!

    “Cashman has used vets to serve as a bridge between 2006 and 2012-13 when his eggs will finally hatch into major league pitchers.”

  59. BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    LGY July 12th, 2011 at 7:24 pm
    Who (a couple of examples)? And who would you bump from the rotation for the new guy?

    ——–

    Anibal, CJ Wilson, Cain, Ubaldo, Greinke, Marcum, Kuroda, Billingsley, Gavin Floyd, Danks just off the top of ny head.
    ____
    I don’t think any of them meet my criteria.
    Mid 20s and healthy (mentally ready for NY too)
    #1 ace that can win 2 in a play-off series
    available for trade

    I might be wrong about who is or isn’t available, but aside from a healthy Ubaldo, I would not want any of them over what we have now enough to give up what it would cost.

    Reason: Any pitcher can break down on one pitch, and I would prefer to have the depth of young power arms than trade away my depth to depend on one arm that is significantly more expensive.

  60. Betsy July 12th, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    MTU, you are a very Able joke teller

  61. Ghostwriter July 12th, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    The fact is that Cashman has tried the trading for the young second-tier starter ploy at least a couple of times (e.g., Weaver and Vazquez), and it has never worked for him. I don’t see why he would resort to that strategy again, absent a real bargain presenting itself.

  62. 4time July 12th, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    “then I wouldn’t want him because there should be no reason why the Rockies would deal him.”

    That type of reasoning is what causes GMs to miss out on guys like Dan Haren who was foolishly sold low.

    You are very rarely going to get a top of the rotation guy who is beasting. You need to look at buy low candidates in bad situations where you can get good value.

  63. luis July 12th, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    Hi everyone,

    Read the thread, very good post all around. On the subject i tend to agree with Ghost and Bojo, the depth in the farm system is to avoid big contracts for lesser pitchers ( Wright, pavano, burnett, etc).

    Jerk, the only pitcher i would trade for on that list would be Felix or Kershaw.

  64. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    Betsy-

    You kill me !

    :)

  65. BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    MTU July 12th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
    “I’d kill for Cain”

    No need.

    He’s perfectly capable of doing that for himself. He’s done so in the past.
    ____
    You mean he’s perfectly ABLE to?

  66. blake July 12th, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    “MTU, you are a very Able joke teller”

    Don’t encourage him :)

  67. Ghostwriter July 12th, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    MTU July 12th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
    “I’d kill for Cain”

    No need.

    He’s perfectly capable of doing that for himself. He’s done so in the past.
    ____
    You mean he’s perfectly ABLE to?
    ================

    That’s awful! :lol:

  68. blake July 12th, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    Offer the Angels Romine and 7 ralley monkeys for Weaver.

  69. BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    Yankee Trader July 12th, 2011 at 7:33 pm
    _____
    My evaluation of Gio foes beyond his stats for right now. I see a 24-25 year old lefty with great tools (fastball, curve, change) who has guts and confidence and is learning to pitch. Put him in YS with several gold glovers around him, and I think he will thrive.

    Highly subjective, but I love what I have seen when he has faced us in past or when I have watched him on web.

  70. Ghostwriter July 12th, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    Which of the two does Cashman retain for next season: Freddy or Bartolo? And who would you like to see return?

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    Cash’s youth pitching movement proclamation in 2006 has proved to be complete BS 5 years later.

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    Evening Luis!

    Hey Gw–check your mail in about 5 minutes.

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    LGY July 12th, 2011 at 7:40 pm
    Cash’s youth pitching movement proclamation in 2006 has proved to be complete BS 5 years later.
    ___
    Really?!?!

    I think that is one statement that we could debate for hours.

  75. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    Of the 2, Bartolo gets my vote.

  76. BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    Ghostwriter July 12th, 2011 at 7:40 pm
    Which of the two does Cashman retain for next season: Freddy or Bartolo? And who would you like to see return?
    ___
    I’d like to see both back, and send them both for more stem cells and PRP treatments.

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  78. Ghostwriter July 12th, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    LGY July 12th, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    Cash’s youth pitching movement proclamation in 2006 has proved to be complete BS 5 years later.
    ———–

    On what do you base this assessment? What were your expectations going in–having all five home-grown guys in the rotation? It seems that Cashman clearly has put his plan into effect, and it has borne fruit. However, Cashman has demonstrated himself to be pragmatist and willing to adapt and to modify the overarching plan as conditions warrant.

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    Hi Bojo!, I hope everything is fine!

    Ghost,

    I would take Bartolo, stuff wise it’s a better bet than Freddy, but i would sign him only for one year though

  80. blake July 12th, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    I think Cashman has tried….they brought Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba along and now Nova, Noesi, and other to follow…….I think they have just struggled to find the balance between going young and winning now. Going young means accepting struggles and the fanbase and in turn front office seems reluctant and nervous to stick with struggles for too long.

  81. blake July 12th, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    I think Freddy is a better bet to be what he’s been this year again next year.

  82. Yankee Trader July 12th, 2011 at 7:47 pm

    I’ll throw out a name, if the Cardinals fade. Has a 15M club option for next year and has pitched well of late shutting down the Phillies and Reds, and could very well be a #2 in the playoffs.

    Don’t know if Cashman would be ABLE to pull it off!!-Carpenter!

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    This is like choosing between Ginger and MaryAnn..why must we take just one?!?!

  84. blake July 12th, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    I thought in the off season that Carpenter would be the most likely trade target for a pitcher if the Cardinals fell out of the race…..they haven’t though and it doesn’t look like they will before the deadline.

  85. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    Blake-

    Newman made it pretty clear how the Yankees view their prospects in his recent interview.

    I thought it was very telling.

    ;)

  86. luis July 12th, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    Blake,

    very good analysis, but even if i agree that the FO is scared to deal with the failure of the youngsters in general, we have in the roster nowadays agood crop of young and talented players that are contributing a great deal on the field

  87. blake July 12th, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    MTU,

    yes. I wish they took more chances sometimes and let more kids play…..but the reality is that they do have to keep that balance between winning now and building the future. It’s not an easy thing to do…..they can’t just accept losing for 2 or 3 years so that some kids can get experience.

  88. luis July 12th, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    BoJo July 12th, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    Because you have to have a spot to ease Betances or Banuelos in to the rotation next year

  89. blake July 12th, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    luis,

    yea….especially the bench and bullpen the farm has greatly contributed in those areas in recent years. Aside from Soriano and a few failed LOOGY’s the pen has been built largely from within.

  90. luis July 12th, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    Blake,

    very true, the thing is that most people evaluate results from the most hyped prospect that haven’t or wont reach their ceilings, they forget sometimes that’s why they are called prospects

  91. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    Blake-

    Because the window at the Ml level shuts so quickly the Yankees need to do the best possible job they can at the MiLB level getting guys ready.

    It can, and hopefully will, be improved.

    More and even better coaching.

  92. Ghostwriter July 12th, 2011 at 7:58 pm

    blake July 12th, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    I think Freddy is a better bet to be what he’s been this year again next year.
    ———————-

    I agree. I would love to keep them both, because I’ve really come to appreciate them. However, if I had to choose I go with Garcia.

  93. Ghostwriter July 12th, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    Bojo,

    I replied to your note.

  94. blake July 12th, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    MTU,

    one thing you notice about the Rays is how slowly they move guys and especially pitchers through the organization……they make sure they are 100% (or as close as possible) ready before bringing guys up. Wade Davis threw 190 innings in AAA before getting the call. They do this I think because 1) they can’t afford to miss on these guys so they need them to be ready 2) because if they wait and bring guys up when they are 23 or 24 then they will get their prime years through arbitration before they become free agents…..instead of getting their pre-prime years and some other team getting their prime.

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