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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Yankees at the break: The rotation

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jul 12, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

This was supposed to be the Yankees weakness. It’s become a strength. Because of better-than-expected performances from Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon, the Yankees rotation has been dependable, and it’s grown deep enough that Ivan Nova is tucked away in Triple-A.

First half
This winter, there was one free agent starter who could make the Yankees feel confident about their rotation. He picked Philadelphia, and the Yankees were left scrambling for spare parts. Those spare parts have been outstanding, A.J. Burnett has bounced back from last season’s misery, Nova has been inconsistent but generally pretty good as a rookie, and CC Sabathia is once again an early Cy Young candidate. When Phil Hughes landed on the DL after just three starts, the Yankees rotation was tested, but it rose to the challenge.

Second half
The Yankees have obvious rotation depth heading into the second half of the season. Nova was crowded out of the rotation despite success, so he’s ready to step in if the Yankees need someone. Based on results, there’s little reason to doubt Colon and Garcia, but their age and recent injuries raise some obvious red flags. The biggest question, though, is probably Hughes. He’s made just one start since coming off the disabled list, and although his velocity was much better than it was in April, he didn’t exactly plow through the Indians lineup. The Yankees are hoping that the Hughes saw in last year’s first half shows up for this year’s second half.

The minors
D.J. Mitchell, David Phelps, Adam Warren and Lance Pendleton each have ERAs of 3.38 or lower in Triple-A. Now they’re joined by Nova to give the Yankees a good, young Triple-A rotation. Their success helps cover the fact that Andrew Brackman has been surprisingly bad, losing his rotation spot and struggling to find consistency as a reliever.

The bigger names are in Double-A, where Manny Banuelos and Dellin Betances have each pitched well – Betances especially – but their control issues are proof that they’re still young and have some work to do. Both have 40 walks in fewer than 80 innings this season. In the lower levels, Mikey O’Brien, Josh Romanski and Nik Turley have pitched their way into call-ups. A few other standouts whose names might not be familiar: Craig Heyer (Fall League selection with a 3.19 ERA in Double-A), Jairo Heredia (improving prospect with a 3.29 ERA in High-A) and Brett Marshall (outstanding since the end of April in High-A).

One question
What happens if Nova dominates in Triple-A?
In his return to Triple-A, Nova struck out 10 and walked none through 7.2 innings that proved he was a Major League pitcher in a minor league game. If that pace continues and one of the Yankees starters slips – doesn’t get hurt, doesn’t fall apart completely, just starts allowing four runs every time out – how quickly would the Yankees make a change and decide they need to move Nova back into the big league rotation?

The future
It will be interesting to see whether the Yankees push either Betances or Banuelos in the second half. It’s entirely possible that they’ll be big league ready at some point next year, but it might not be at the start of the season unless they get at least a half season at Triple-A. It’ll also be interesting to see if Phelps, Mitchell or Warren gets some big league time kind of like Nova did last year. The bigger question, though, centers on Sabathia, who can opt out of his contract at the end of this season. Even if Sabathia opts out, the Yankees would remain a favorite to bring him back, but it’s an issue that could have a significant impact on the next five or six years (maybe more).

Associated Press photos of Sabathia and Colon, headshots of Mitchell, Banuelos and Nova

 
 

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182 Responses to “Yankees at the break: The rotation”

  1. West Coast Yankee Fan July 12th, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    They sell beer at games and there is no safety railing to speak of. They seek to protect themselves with the fine print on the back of your ticket. Corporations unfortunately accept a certain number of deaths as part of the cost of doing business for profit. That is why you need government regulations. This would be an easy fix; to have a no entrance moat between the first row of seats and any railing.

  2. Erin July 12th, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    I hope SuperNova will be back up. Not that I don’t love having Hughes back, I just hated that Nova had to lose his spot.

  3. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    I wonder if Marcus being DFA’d could spell the end for Andruw? On the one hand, Thames last year was a far better hitter than Jones has been this year. On the other hand Jones can play the field which Thames cannot.

  4. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    Re-sign Sabathia

    Trade Nunez and Noesi for Santana

    Next year’s rotation:

    CC
    Johan
    AJ
    Hughes
    Nova (or Colon. If he finishes strong the Yankees will likely offer him a 1 year deal to return)

  5. Giuseppe Franco July 12th, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    There is absolutely zero chance you’ll ever see Johan Santana in pinstripes.

  6. Bronx Jeers July 12th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    There’s a plexiglass shield at Yankee Stadium. But not at field level.

  7. 108 stitches July 12th, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    repost :

    Unless a ball hit in the stands carries a lot of historical significance and financial rewards, it seems ridiculous to get trampled on or worse for a ball that’s worth less than $11.00 to major league teams.
    The thought process can get quickly eliminated for some people when a ball is hit near them.

  8. JM July 12th, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    Who knows what Santana will have when he eventually returns? Pass.

  9. Warning Track Power July 12th, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    Re Nova: I was wondering if he had made an appearance yet down there in AAA.
    Very happy to read how dominating he was.
    Nova is a MLB caliber pitcher down there in AAA.
    Might not be the best place for him as of right now, but sooner or later the Yankees rotation will have an open spot and Nova will be the 1st called up. No question about that in my mind.
    Nova has nothing left to prove in AAA.

  10. LGY July 12th, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    They should pick up Thames and see what he can do with some DH time and bat off the bench.

    There’s no reason to get rid of Andruw.

    Just have both if you want to look into Thames.

  11. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    What value does an aging, often hurt pitcher offer to NYYs? And for a younger pitcher and shortsyop insurance? Only you and Bret would think that’s a steal. Let him go to Boston and get whacked around. Yeah, he’s worth $75 mil for the next 3 years.

  12. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    Giuseppe Franco July 12th, 2011 at 4:10 pm
    There is absolutely zero chance you’ll ever see Johan Santana in pinstripes.

    ——————

    Why’s that?

    Mets need to get their payroll to about $100 mil next year.

    Likely they’re going to have K-Rod eating up $17.5 of that.

    There aren’t that many teams that can afford to take on Johan’s contract – Yankees are one of them and have prospects to offer who would fill major Met holes. Angels could afford to do it, but after the Vernon Wells disaster I don’t know that they will; Red Sox are near their limit and don’t really have a rotation need with Beckett, Lester, Bucholtz; Phillies could take him on but I think it’s much more likely they would trade him to the Yankees than the Phillies; Rangers maybe if they lose out on Wilson.

    Yankees (in this scenario) are offering the Mets a guy who will be their starting SS when Reyes bolts and a pitcher who will slot right into their rotation.

    Also, Johan has a blanket NTC and would have to accept any deal. A deal to the Yankees doesn’t disrupt his life in any way and I’m certain that if NY were to pick up his 2014 club option that would get it done.

    As for the cost to NY – well the talk has been that they are going to go after CJ Wilson this winter. Wilson will probably want a deal similar to the Lackey/Burnett contracts – Johan’s deal (even with the option) is for fewer years than that and while the AAV is higher, it’s not significantly higher due to the deferments in the money owed to Santana ($5 mil/year). So instead of paying CJ Wilson $16 mil a year for 5 years you can pay Johan $19 mil a year for 3 years. If he’s healthy – that’s the much better way to go.

    I’ll grant you, there’s the PR aspect to the suggestion that is difficult to overcome, but the Mets are beyond the point where they can afford to worry about public relations. The TV ratings for Met games are the 7th lowest in all of baseball and only two teams have seen their TV ratings drop more than the Mets over the last 12 months (Astros and Rays). The Wilpons have to pay Einhorn $200 mil within 2 years or they lose control of the team for $1.00.

    It may well be that the only way they can pay back that loan is by gutting the team of all its money stars.

  13. Bronx Jeers July 12th, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    They sell beer at games and there is no safety railing to speak of

    —————————————————————————–

    Didn’t the guy fall leaning over the safety railing?

  14. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
    What value does an aging, often hurt pitcher offer to NYYs? And for a younger pitcher and shortsyop insurance? Only you and Bret would think that’s a steal. Let him go to Boston and get whacked around. Yeah, he’s worth $75 mil for the next 3 years.

    ——————

    A) Given the money deferments it’s actually closer to $60 mil for the next 3 years

    B) only you would think that a utility infielder and middle reliever have greater value than a healthy Johan Santana.

  15. Erin July 12th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    BryanHoch A cool view for tonight’s #AllStarGame! http://yfrog.com/kexqpnrj

  16. LGY July 12th, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    If Johan proves he is healthy, I would def rather have him for two years than CJ Wilson for 5+.

    Santana would be a very intriguing option because while very expensive he only has two guaranteed years left on his deal.

  17. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    LGY July 12th, 2011 at 4:24 pm
    If Johan proves he is healthy, I would def rather have him for two years than CJ Wilson for 5+.

    Santana would be a very intriguing option because while very expensive he only has two guaranteed years left on his deal.

    ———–

    It’s a rare day that you and I agree on anything.

    I would assume that to get him to waive his NTC the Yankees would have to pick up the club option for 2014 – so I’m just counting that third year as guaranteed.

  18. Giuseppe Franco July 12th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Chip July 12th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    Giuseppe Franco July 12th, 2011 at 4:10 pm
    There is absolutely zero chance you’ll ever see Johan Santana in pinstripes.

    ——————

    Why’s that?

    ————

    Because fantasy deals that make no sense usually don’t become reality.

    It would make sense for the Mets to try and dump him but it makes no sense at all for the Yanks to acquire him.

  19. 108 stitches July 12th, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    Phil Hughes has the most to prove. He needs a strong 2nd half or he could be trade bait over the winter. Nova is ready and not far behind is Phelps, Warren, Mitchell, Noesi, Betances, and Banuelos plus others ready to move up to AA next year.

  20. Erin July 12th, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    DRob30 I love parades http://lockerz.com/s/119559282

  21. Giuseppe Franco July 12th, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    # Chip July 12th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    B) only you would think that a utility infielder and middle reliever have greater value than a healthy Johan Santana.

    ———

    That’s part of your problem. You see those guys as spare parts (at this moment w/ NYY) but that doesn’t mean that’s their only value to other teams.

  22. LGY July 12th, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    I would assume that to get him to waive his NTC the Yankees would have to pick up the club option for 2014 –so I’m just counting that third year as guaranteed.

    ——

    Possibly, but I’m not positive. The Yanks could play hardball with him.

    I’m sure Johan would love to get off the Mets esp since he can stay in NY + play for a contender.

  23. Bronx Jeers July 12th, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    BryanHoch A cool view for tonight’s #AllStarGame! http://yfrog.com/kexqpnrj

    ————————————————-

    I barely see railing. I hope he doesn’t decide to dance the Cha-Cha-Cha on his computer.

  24. heyman_sux July 12th, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    Because fantasy deals that make no sense usually don?t become reality.

    It would make sense for the Mets to try and dump him but it makes no sense at all for the Yanks to acquire him.
    ********

    I, too, would typically classify this as a “fantasy” deal but Chip brings up some valid monetary issues. But Johan was a very solid Cy Young candidate (before going down) last year, albeit on a losing team.

    Also, I think Chip has proposed this as an alternative to CJ Wilson – and he’s not wrong in saying Johan for 3 yrs is probably better than CJ for 5

  25. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Giuseppe Franco July 12th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
    Chip July 12th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    Giuseppe Franco July 12th, 2011 at 4:10 pm
    There is absolutely zero chance you’ll ever see Johan Santana in pinstripes.

    ——————

    Why’s that?

    ————

    Because fantasy deals that make no sense usually don’t become reality.

    It would make sense for the Mets to try and dump him but it makes no sense at all for the Yanks to acquire him.

    ————

    Again I say “why not?”

    We’re what, 8 months removed from the Yankees trying to bring in Cliff Lee, back problems and all, for 7 years and $26 or so mil per year? Santana is the same age and has 4 fewer years on his contract at less money.

  26. Erin July 12th, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Bronx Jeers July 12th, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    I barely see railing. I hope he doesn?t decide to dance the Cha-Cha-Cha on his computer.

    ***************

    :lol:

  27. Erin July 12th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    jimbaumbach Jury has been selected! #clemens

  28. LGY July 12th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    It would really depend if there’s another team out there who would guarantee that option.

    If there is no other team, Johan wouldn’t have much leverage.

  29. Tom in N.J. July 12th, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    Santana had the same surgery as Wang.

    I wouldn’t trade for him at all.

  30. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    Let’s take a somewhat different approach.

    Let’s say the Yankees were willing to make Garcia available as Pat M. has suggested in the past.

    He is replaced by Nova.

    What would teams who need a solid experienced starter offer for him ?

    For example, the Cards ?

  31. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    Giuseppe Franco July 12th, 2011 at 4:29 pm
    # Chip July 12th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    B) only you would think that a utility infielder and middle reliever have greater value than a healthy Johan Santana.

    ———

    That’s part of your problem. You see those guys as spare parts (at this moment w/ NYY) but that doesn’t mean that’s their only value to other teams.
    ————–

    No, I’m seeing both sides.

    To the Yankees, Eduardo Nunez and Hector Noesi are spare parts. They’re a utility infielder and a middle reliever. To the Mets they are a starting SS and back of the rotation starter. That’s part of what makes this a fantastic trade for the Yankees. The Yankees can not only afford Johan but they’re not giving up anything they can’t replace in doing so.

  32. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    LGY July 12th, 2011 at 4:33 pm
    It would really depend if there’s another team out there who would guarantee that option.

    If there is no other team, Johan wouldn’t have much leverage.

    —————

    That’s true too. But I tend to think things like this are almost pro forma. Though in some cases (Lance Berkman) the selling point is not picking up the club option so that they can test FA.

  33. West Coast Yankee Fan July 12th, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    MTU July 12th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    Let’s take a somewhat different approach. Let’s say the Yankees were willing to make Garcia available as Pat M. has suggested in the past. He is replaced by Nova. What would teams who need a solid experienced starter offer for him? For example, the Cards ?

    **************

    I can’t see the Yankees dealing a starting pitcher until they have some sense as to what they are going to get out of Phil Hughes going forward.

  34. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    I don’t care if Santana was getting $15 mil a year. He’s done nothing in the last year and a half to prove he’s even worth minimum wage.

  35. heyman_sux July 12th, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Tom in N.J. July 12th, 2011 at 4:35 pm
    Santana had the same surgery as Wang.

    I wouldn?t trade for him at all.
    **********

    Mark Prior, as well.

    If he came back by the end of this season, showed he was healthy and capable of replicating past performance, and the Mets were still looking to shed payroll I wouldn’t see it as a bad option. That’s a lot of “ifs”

  36. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    MTU July 12th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
    Let’s take a somewhat different approach.

    Let’s say the Yankees were willing to make Garcia available as Pat M. has suggested in the past.

    He is replaced by Nova.

    What would teams who need a solid experienced starter offer for him ?

    For example, the Cards ?

    ——————–

    Probably very little. Garcia has extremely limited upside and is a good scouting report away from getting lit up.

  37. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    Let’s further assume that Nova handles Freddie’s spot and Hughes is at least adequate as a #5.

    I don’t think there much of a stretch in that.

  38. Erin July 12th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    DRob30 Definitely not like a New York ticker tape parade, but still fun! #ASG http://lockerz.com/s/119562476

  39. Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    Whenever I hear someone commenting about a young player’s platoon splits I remember that (according to Lou) Paulie would never be able to hit LHP.

    Yea, never underestimate a players desire to improve himself and all that, but for every Paulie there is a guy that just never gets there. I can’t go and say that every hitter with a platoon split will become Paul O’Neil.

    In 94 he eliminated it. He had a platoon split in 95-97, did well in 98 but still had a 200 pt split (hit .280 but with no power), split hard again in 99 (.190 vs LHP), reverse platoon split in 2000 and flipped em back again in 2001. Its not like he hit lefties every year or at a consistent level.

    Granderson has been unreal, but I can’t say every player has Granderson’s ridiculously quick bat.

  40. Tom in N.J. July 12th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    “So I said a few days ago, we’re not looking for Johan to ride in here and be a major factor in this season.”

    http://www.northjersey.com/spo.....eturn.html

  41. Erin July 12th, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    BloggingBombers Bud Selig said Citi Field’s chances of landing the 2013 All-Star Game “look pretty good.”

  42. Benny Blanco July 12th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    Evan Roberts just said the Rockies are shoppig ubaldo? Can anyone confirm this, and if so, who do we give up??

  43. LGY July 12th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    I don’t care if Santana was getting $15 mil a year. He’s done nothing in the last year and a half to prove he’s even worth minimum wage.

    ——-

    He pitched to a 2.98 ERA in 199 innings last season before he was shutdown in September.

  44. LGY July 12th, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    “So I said a few days ago, we’re not looking for Johan to ride in here and be a major factor in this season.”

    ——

    I’m looking at Johan over the winter…

  45. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    Chip-

    He would fill an important need on the Cards and might help them get the division.

  46. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    Santana’s still not worth $25 mil a year….no matter how much you kiss his ass.

  47. LGY July 12th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Santana’s still not worth $25 mil a year….no matter how much you kiss his ass.

    ——-

    You get angry about really strange stuff.

    Who said he’s worth $25 million?

  48. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 4:40 pm
    I don’t care if Santana was getting $15 mil a year. He’s done nothing in the last year and a half to prove he’s even worth minimum wage.

    ————

    You mean the last half a year right? Because last year he was pretty effing effective for 200 innings before they shut him down.

  49. Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    GB7 doesn’t understand advanced stats like innings pitched or ERA.

  50. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 4:48 pm
    Santana’s still not worth $25 mil a year….no matter how much you kiss his ass.

    —————-

    Is this the “because I say so” argument?

    Look, I agree – Johan’s not worth $25 mil a year (and technically won’t be getting paid that) but if I was given the choice between having him for 3 years or CJ Wilson for 5 or 6 years – I’m going with Santana for a few dollars more.

  51. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    Benny-

    They would have to be bowled over.

    Think Montero, Banuelos ++.

  52. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    MTU July 12th, 2011 at 4:48 pm
    Chip-

    He would fill an important need on the Cards and might help them get the division.

    —————

    Yeah but can you really say that he’s better than what they could find in their own minor leagues? I doubt it.

    Garcia has pitched well, but no team is going to value him as anything more than a 5th starter

  53. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    You sign him up and let him parade his CY plaque around your living room. He’s not worth the comtract…especially since Sabathia will be needing to be resigned. I’ll stick with the healthy kids.

  54. Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    I would pay a premium to maintain shorter length contracts than save some money but be locked into a guy for 5+ years. A team like the Yankees should do that (and they tried to offer pavano more money for 1 year but he took 2 for less)

  55. Erin July 12th, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    If anybody missed it in the last thread:

    YankeesPR #DJ3K continues – cover of this week’s Sports Illustrated (@SINow) and named AL Player of the Week http://twitpic.com/5p7mug

  56. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    Tom in N.J. July 12th, 2011 at 4:43 pm
    “So I said a few days ago, we’re not looking for Johan to ride in here and be a major factor in this season.”

    ————–

    Tom,

    Clearly this would be a winter trade. Johan is predicted to be back in August – if he shows over the last month or so of the season that he’s healthy then I would make a move in November or December for him.

  57. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    Chip-

    Yes. Or they wouldn’t be looking around.

    They are not looking for an ace. Just a solid dependable guy to fill out their rotation for the playoff run.

    Freddy is that and then some.

  58. West Coast Yankee Fan July 12th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    MTU July 12th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    Let’s further assume that Nova handles Freddie’s spot and Hughes is at least adequate as a #5. I don’t think there much of a stretch in that.

    **************

    If Garcia goes, that leaves no starting pitcher ready to step in should anyone get hurt. I think we need to obtain pitching not deal it. As mentioned previously, not having a dependable number two in the post season is less than ideal. I certainly wouldn’t deal pitching for a bat. If we want a bat; I would deal minor league talent.

  59. Rich in NJ July 12th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    I want no part of Santana.

  60. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    Yrchnically, he’s getting exactly what his contract says he is…$25 mil a year. The Mets aren’t taking a couple of kids and then paying any significant amount.

  61. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    ***Technically***

  62. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 4:53 pm
    You sign him up and let him parade his CY plaque around your living room. He’s not worth the comtract…especially since Sabathia will be needing to be resigned. I’ll stick with the healthy kids.

    ————–

    Like Cliff Lee?

    The Yankees were willing to give him and his balky back 7 years at $26/$27 million knowing that they still had to re-sign CC.

    What has changed?

    Hughes has actually gone backwards. Banuelos and Betances are still in AA. Brackman has been a disaster at AAA. Had Bartolo Colon and Freddy Garcia not been amazing over the first half this team would have been in serious trouble.

    Of course the Yankees have to re-sign CC. But they can’t stop there. They need to add more to this rotation next year and given the options I see nothing wrong with trading for Johan.

  63. Erin July 12th, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    RiverAveBlues RT @MosheTYA: Based on their 2011′s, Melky + IPK would actually be a pretty good trade package.

  64. Benny Blanco July 12th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    MTU,

    Do you not think Ulbado is worth it??

  65. Rich in NJ July 12th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    “RiverAveBlues RT @MosheTYA: Based on their 2011?s, Melky + IPK would actually be a pretty good trade package.”

    RAB wanted to trade Melky for Gagne a few years ago. How would have that worked out?

  66. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    We have Noesi, Phelps, Warren and Mitchell.

    All of whom could step in as # 6 guys IMO.

    I’m not sure what Freddy brings back. Maybe you guys are right. I’m just thinking he has a real value to a team that might see him as the answer to fill out their rotation.

    That’s why I tossed out the hypothetical to try to solicit opinions.

    That, and to get off of Santana.

  67. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 4:55 pm
    Yrchnically, he’s getting exactly what his contract says he is…$25 mil a year. The Mets aren’t taking a couple of kids and then paying any significant amount.

    ———————–

    I didn’t say the Mets were going to take on any of his contract.

    His contract says that $5 mil per year of his contract is deferred.

    From Cots:

    12:$24M, 13:$25.5M, 14:$25M club option ($5.5M buyout)

    $5M deferred annually at 1.25% compound interest (payable June 30 seven years after season in which salary was earned)

  68. Rich in NJ July 12th, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    Noesi has swing and miss stuff. His ceiling may be higher than Nova’s and depending on what we see as he gains arm strength and develops, maybe higher than Hughes’.

  69. blake July 12th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    If Santana came back and showed that he was all the way back then yea Id have interest …..he’s not that old and he could be had without giving up a lot most likely….. but until he shows he’s healthy its tough to talk about trading for him.

  70. Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Noesi needs to stop hanging his slider and use his change up more.

  71. Rich in NJ July 12th, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    Plus, from what I read, Santana’s surgery was pretty rare and very extensive.

  72. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    Rich in NJ July 12th, 2011 at 5:01 pm
    Noesi has swing and miss stuff. His ceiling may be higher than Nova’s and depending on what we see as he gains arm strength and develops, maybe higher than Hughes’.

    —————-

    You might be right – but the Yankees have a lot of high upside RHP in the system. They would be dealing from a position of strength to fix an area of weakness – top of the rotation starter.

  73. blake July 12th, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    I like Noesi better than Nova.

  74. heyman_sux July 12th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    Why trade Freddy? He’s been better than Hughes, probably better than AJ, more durable than Colon…

    SMH

    There are ways to improve this team without trading away SP depth

  75. Rich in NJ July 12th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    “Noesi needs to stop hanging his slider and use his change up more.”

    You could also say that:

    Hughes needs to stop hanging his curve and use his change up more.

  76. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    Benny-

    If he’s healthy and pitching like he did last year he’s worth a trade as an ace.

    This year his velo is way down. Not quite sure why. May or may not indicate a problem brewing so I am not quite so sure.

    Would you do it with that in mind ?

  77. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    Rich in NJ July 12th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
    Plus, from what I read, Santana’s surgery was pretty rare and very extensive.

    ————–

    Again, all this speculation was predicated on Johan being healthy. Obviously I wouldn’t endorse dealing for him if he’s not.

    But if he is, would I rather have him than CJ Wilson…absolutely no question. And would I deal for him if it cost Noesi and Nunez…in a heartbeat.

  78. 108 stitches July 12th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    I’m inclined to give Larry Rothschild some props for how the starting pitching has turned out so far in this season. There’s been several games where the starting pitching was stellar but with no run support. Without Soriano or Chamberlain, he managed to push some right buttons in keeping the relief staff respectable.
    Just giving some credit where credit is due.

  79. Benny Blanco July 12th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    Chip, If Ulbado is on the trading block would you at least listen??

  80. Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    Hughes needs to stop hanging his curve and use his change up more.

    Hughes needs to develop a curve and use his change up more :) Noesi actually has a good change up, which is why I find it odd Martin rarely calls for it. I like Noesi more because as you said, swing and miss stuff. And he doesn’t walk guys (or shouldn’t once he settles in)

  81. Rich in NJ July 12th, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    Chip

    Let Santana prove that he is still a top of the rotation starter and that he can is still durable enough to maintain it.

    There are just too many physical issues and the contract is too big.

    Plus, all things being equal, the Mets will likely look for another trading partner.

  82. Benny Blanco July 12th, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    MTU,

    I didn’t realize his velo was down….That changes things significantly.

  83. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    Heyman-

    Because he won’t be here long term. He might get us a decent return. and we have adequate replacements who are younger.

    That’s the idea. If it’s a bad one then that’s cool. Freddy is someone who is expendable.

    Nova and Hughes should be keepers.

    P.S. Don’t get me wrong. I like Freddy.

  84. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    Benny Blanco July 12th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
    Chip, If Ulbado is on the trading block would you at least listen??

    ————–

    Depends on what’s up with his velocity…but sure…I’ll listen on anyone.

  85. comet July 12th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    Ubaldo Jimenez is on the Reds radar according to MLBTR!

  86. Giuseppe Franco July 12th, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    Dealing for Santana is way too big of a gamble when you have no idea what he’s got left, especially since he hasn’t thrown a pitch all season.

    The deadline is in 2+ weeks and Nunez is their starting 3rd Baseman for at least the next month.

    You’re gonna take that big of a gamble for a guy who hasn’t even thrown a pitch this season?

    Jeter and A-Rod have been pretty banged up the last year. Nunez isn’t as much of a “spare part” as some people think.

    As Rich said, the contract is also way too big and the Mets aren’t likely to make any kind of deal like that with their crosstown rivals.

  87. blake July 12th, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    Ubaldo has been better lately…..not sure if the velo is back or not. He’s dominant when he’s right…..Im sure the Rockies are just seeing if someone will overpay though.

  88. BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    The poor kid that caught Jeter’s 3,000th hit, is facing an IRS bill of $13K for value he received this year. If the Yankees want to continue to do the right thing, they’d pay any tax bill due.

  89. heyman_sux July 12th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    MTU -

    I get the idea: get something while you can. But there’s a strong possibility the best return we can get for Freddy, is simply letting him pitch the rest of the season.

  90. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    Benny-

    OTOH Ubaldo’s velo decrease may just be an innings overhang issue, or a mechanical problem.

    ;)

  91. Bronx Jeers July 12th, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    As per Leiter who talked to Rags:

    Halladay for 2. Cliff Lee for 2, Kershaw for 1, Jurrjens for 1

  92. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    Blake-

    If Ubaldo is OK it’s pretty hard to overpay. Total stud. I’m surprised they’d even consider it.

    ;)

  93. Rich in NJ July 12th, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    “The poor kid that caught Jeter’s 3,000th hit, is facing an IRS bill of $13K for value he received this year. If the Yankees want to continue to do the right thing, they’d pay any tax bill due.”

    It’s hard to imagine that they or Jeter won’t. It’s like $13 to most of us.

    Alternatively, they can hire the kid a tax lawyer to make the argument that what he received was a gift, not income. ;)

  94. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    Heyman-

    Perhaps but that was the point of the query.

  95. BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    MTU -

    We’ve already got a guy like that on staff, Hughes.

    I’d give Hughes 2 more starts to show he’s ready to be in the rotation, after that, if he doesn’t prove he’s ready, bring Nova back up, and put Hughes in the BP.

  96. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    Rich in NJ July 12th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
    Chip

    Let Santana prove that he is still a top of the rotation starter and that he can is still durable enough to maintain it.

    There are just too many physical issues and the contract is too big.

    Plus, all things being equal, the Mets will likely look for another trading partner.

    ————-

    Rich,

    I agree on waiting to see what he has when he comes back – again, this is not a July deal, this is a Winter Meetings deal.

    As for the contract – that’s meaningless to me. As I said to GB – the Yankees were falling all over themselves to offer Cliff Lee a longer contract for more money knowing that he has serious back issues.

  97. Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    Alternatively, they can hire the kid a tax lawyer to make the argument that what he received was a gift, not income.

    He traded a baseball for it, its not a gift. At least, that is what the government would probably say and win with.

  98. Bronx Jeers July 12th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    If the yanks paid his tax wouldn’t that money be taxable as well?

  99. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    Giuseppe Franco July 12th, 2011 at 5:13 pm
    Dealing for Santana is way too big of a gamble when you have no idea what he’s got left, especially since he hasn’t thrown a pitch all season.

    The deadline is in 2+ weeks and Nunez is their starting 3rd Baseman for at least the next month.

    You’re gonna take that big of a gamble for a guy who hasn’t even thrown a pitch this season?

    Jeter and A-Rod have been pretty banged up the last year. Nunez isn’t as much of a “spare part” as some people think.

    As Rich said, the contract is also way too big and the Mets aren’t likely to make any kind of deal like that with their crosstown rivals.

    ——————-

    You’re misunderstanding – this isn’t a suggestion for July…this is a suggestion for the Winter Meetings, as an alternative to a CJ Wilson.

  100. BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    MTU -

    Teams don’t trade away their stud SP, unless there’s a contract problem they can’t overcome. When an offer looks too good, there may be other reasons behind that offer.

  101. Giuseppe Franco July 12th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    I have no doubt that the Yanks will take care of the kid. If nothing else, they’ll do it simply because it would be bad publicity for them if they don’t.

  102. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    Al-

    “We’ve already got a guy like that on staff, Hughes.”

    I’m a bit confused here Al. Been having several convos. Who are you saying Hughes is like ?

    Ubaldo ?

  103. Rich in NJ July 12th, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    “He traded a baseball for it, its not a gift. At least, that is what the government would probably say and win with.”

    I don’t think it’s a gift either since a gift requires “disinterested generosity” on the part of the donor, but I read a quote from a tax law specialist in the NYT article that the kid would have a legitimate argument in any dispute with the IRS, so since I’m not a tax law specialist (just one course in law school), I’m deferring to him. :)

  104. BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    Bronx Jeers -

    Per the IRS, no. If you give some one taxable value, you are permitted to pay the tax, because the tax goes to the IRS, not the person responsible for the tax.

  105. Rich in NJ July 12th, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    “If the yanks paid his tax wouldn’t that money be taxable as well?”

    True, they’d have to give him enough to cover the extra income tax flowing from the tax payment.

  106. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 5:18 pm
    MTU -

    We’ve already got a guy like that on staff, Hughes.

    I’d give Hughes 2 more starts to show he’s ready to be in the rotation, after that, if he doesn’t prove he’s ready, bring Nova back up, and put Hughes in the BP.

    ————

    Hughes in the pen makes no more sense than putting Nova in the pen.

  107. BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    MTU -

    Yes, in the sense he’s having trouble with his velo, and been up and down. I’d never put Hughes on the same level as Ubaldo talent wise.

  108. Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    I’d put Montero in the pen. That way, when he isn’t in the game at catcher or DH he can still be honing his trade warming up the relievers.

  109. RadioKev July 12th, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    Trades for starting pitching is nonsense unless it’s a real winner. Santana isn’t a real winner at this point. Only trade for sure things because we have all that insurance that Chad mentioned within this post.

    I think the Yanks should focus on a bench pick up and a bullpen pick up, and the team should be fine. We have the pieces we need to win in the post season, they just need to perform.

  110. Rich in NJ July 12th, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    Yeah, if Hughes isn’t right, he needs to be sent down.

  111. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    Rich in NJ July 12th, 2011 at 5:22 pm
    “He traded a baseball for it, its not a gift. At least, that is what the government would probably say and win with.”

    I don’t think it’s a gift either since a gift requires “disinterested generosity” on the part of the donor, but I read a quote from a tax law specialist in the NYT article that the kid would have a legitimate argument in any dispute with the IRS, so since I’m not a tax law specialist (just one course in law school), I’m deferring to him.
    ————

    IRS is looking at is as if he won a contest – you know – like if you win on one of these call in shows – they make you pay the taxes on those things too.

  112. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 5:25 pm
    I’d put Montero in the pen. That way, when he isn’t in the game at catcher or DH he can still be honing his trade warming up the relievers.

    —————

    See I don’t know if you’re joking or not and that’s frightening to me.

  113. Rich in NJ July 12th, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    Right Chip, it’s all income unless it meets the technical definition of a gift.

  114. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    Al-

    “I’d never put Hughes on the same level as Ubaldo talent wise.”

    I’m glad because Hughes couldn’t hold Ubaldo’s jock strap if both are healthy.

    I agree that the Rockies even listening sends up a red flag.

  115. BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    The Yankees are not trading Nunez, he’s their safety net for A-Rod and Jeter both. You think they’ll trade him, and settle for Pena at those positions as back-up, get real.

    Or do you think they take a lost cost guy like Nunez, trade him, and sign a much higher priced, older, back-up.

  116. BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    Rich in NJ -

    It became taxable when he exchanged the ball for value, mainly the box seats. It would be much harder to prove the value of the other products received, bats, balls and jersey’s.

  117. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    5M deferred annually at 1.25% compound interest (payable June 30 seven years after season in which salary was earned)

    LMAO. You great fool. Do you think if the deferred payments are put off long enough, Santana and his agent will forget about it? It still has to be paid.

  118. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    Hughes is the X factor in the rotation.

    If he doesn’t return to form we’re really light for the playoffs.

    CC
    Colon
    AJ
    Freddy

    is not going to cut it IMO.

  119. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 5:29 pm
    The Yankees are not trading Nunez, he’s their safety net for A-Rod and Jeter both. You think they’ll trade him, and settle for Pena at those positions as back-up, get real.

    Or do you think they take a lost cost guy like Nunez, trade him, and sign a much higher priced, older, back-up.

    ——————

    Who’s to say that by next year Corban Joseph isn’t ready to do what Eduardo Nunez is doing today.

    Look – I get the love for prospects, I really and truly do, but if you’re going to let a utility infielder (and that’s what he’s going to be if he’s with the Yankees) stand in the way of getting a top of the rotation starter then you’re nuttier than a fruit cake.

  120. Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    Do you think if the deferred payments are put off long enough, Santana and his agent will forget about it? It still has to be paid.

    You missed the point.

  121. BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    MTU -

    In the PS, I’d put Nova ahead of Freddy on the depth chart.

  122. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    Yeah, Chip will listen on anybody. His idea of a good deal is to tell the other GM that he can only have one farm team.

  123. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 5:32 pm
    5M deferred annually at 1.25% compound interest (payable June 30 seven years after season in which salary was earned)

    LMAO. You great fool. Do you think if the deferred payments are put off long enough, Santana and his agent will forget about it? It still has to be paid.

    ————

    Yes I am aware of that you tremendous moron.

    Point is that with the deferred payments you are not paying him $25 mil in 2012, 2013 and 2014 – you are paying him $20 mil each of those years and then you’re giving him the other $15 mil – which as I’m sure anyone with a credit card, mortgage or car payment will tell you frees you up to have more cash on hand when you need/want it.

  124. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    Al-

    Either way that’s light w/o Hughes.

  125. Rich in NJ July 12th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    Big Al

    I agree, I’m just referencing this excerpt from the NYT article Chad linked to:

    Michael J. Graetz, a law professor at Columbia University who advised the I.R.S. on how to treat the McGwire ball, questioned whether the booty was not a gift, and therefore not taxable.

    “The legal question of whether it is a gift or prize is whether the transferor is giving the property out of detached and disinterested generosity,” Professor Graetz said. “It’s hard for me, not being a Yankee fan, to think of the Yankees as being in the business of exercising generosity to others, but there’s a reasonable case to be made that these were given out of generosity.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07.....nted=print

  126. BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    Chip -

    There in lies the difference in our thinking. I no longer believe Santana is a top of the rotation SP. At this point in his career, he’s lucky to come back as a shadow of his prior self. He and Chavez have the same make-up, built like glass, waiting to break, IMO.

  127. Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    He and Chavez have the same make-up, built like glass, waiting to break, IMO.

    Santana pitched a lot longer than Chavez managed to play injury free. I don’t think they are comparable.

  128. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 5:36 pm
    Yeah, Chip will listen on anybody. His idea of a good deal is to tell the other GM that he can only have one farm team.

    ———–

    Sigh…you are so predictable. Look, if you want to disagree on something, fine, go right ahead. But these temper tantrums you throw are getting old.

  129. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    Corban Joseph is not and never will be a shortstop and neither will David Adams.

  130. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 5:37 pm
    Chip -

    There in lies the difference in our thinking. I no longer believe Santana is a top of the rotation SP. At this point in his career, he’s lucky to come back as a shadow of his prior self. He and Chavez have the same make-up, built like glass, waiting to break, IMO.

    ————-

    Johan threw 200 innings last year with a sub 3 ERA before going on the DL. If I can get that from him each year for the next 3…sign me right up for that glass.

  131. BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    Rich in NJ -

    Thanks for the link. I just hope it works out for the kid, he did the right thing, and needs to be treated by the Yankees well for doing so. To the Yankees, $13K is meal money for a FO dinner.

  132. RayVT July 12th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
    Bronx Jeers -

    Per the IRS, no. If you give some one taxable value, you are permitted to pay the tax, because the tax goes to the IRS, not the person responsible for the tax.

    But if someone paid a fair price for the gift, then there is no tax. i.e. – The ball that was traded had value. So trading it for something of equivalent value equalizes it.

  133. austinmac July 12th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    Rich,

    I took income tax in a summer 5 week session in law school. It wasn’t one of my favorite summers. The main thing I remember is thinking the tax code couldn’t be more obtuse if that was their goal.

  134. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:38 pm
    GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 5:36 pm
    Yeah, Chip will listen on anybody. His idea of a good deal is to tell the other GM that he can only have one farm team.

    ———–

    Sigh…you are so predictable. Look, if you want to disagree on something, fine, go right ahead. But these temper tantrums you throw are getting old.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    That wasn’t a temper tantrum…just me laughing at the complete idiocy of your trades.

  135. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 5:39 pm
    Corban Joseph is not and never will be a shortstop and neither will David Adams.

    ————–

    Really?

    You’re going to fall back on “but if we trade Eduardo Nunez who will be our utility infielder or possibly take over for Derek Jeter 3 years from now” as the reason why you wouldn’t deal for Santana?

    It’s impossible for you to be this in love with Yankee prospects.

    Any given winter there are at least two dozen viable utility infielders available. And if they sign one who doesn’t work out – they can trade for another one later. And when Jeter’s contract runs out – they can look for a SS then.

  136. Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    The 7 in GB7 stands for his age.

  137. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 5:41 pm
    Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:38 pm
    GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 5:36 pm
    Yeah, Chip will listen on anybody. His idea of a good deal is to tell the other GM that he can only have one farm team.

    ———–

    Sigh…you are so predictable. Look, if you want to disagree on something, fine, go right ahead. But these temper tantrums you throw are getting old.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    That wasn’t a temper tantrum…just me laughing at the complete idiocy of your trades.

    ————-

    Well if you could read and comprehend then perhaps you wouldn’t be so confounded by them.

  138. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 5:42 pm
    The 7 in GB7 stands for his age.

    ———–

    He enjoys reading parts of posts and basing half witted opinions off of them. He would make quite the politician.

  139. BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    Jerkface -

    Don’t understand why, when you disagree with a post, you need to make personal attacks.

  140. austinmac July 12th, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    GB,

    Joseph and Adams appear, at least statistically, to be two of the Yankees best position prospects, but are blocked by Cano? Do they have much trade value in your opinion? I’m not sure what other future they could have.

  141. Giuseppe Franco July 12th, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    What Santana did last season for the Mets is kind of irrelevant because….

    A.) It was before his latest injury/surgery

    B.) It was in the NL pitching half his games in the Grand Canyon

    C.) He would be pitching against much tougher competition in the AL East and in a smaller ballaprk

  142. Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    Don’t understand why, when you disagree with a post, you need to make personal attacks.

    Huh? Please don’t confuse my normal conversations (like with you where I disagreed without attacking you just fine) and making fun of GB7. I am personally attacking GB7 because he is a cantankerous stooge that seems to spend all his time on here seething.

  143. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    You’d be satisfied with Pena playing 20-30 games a year at shortstop, another 10 at 2nd and another 20 or so at third base for the next 3 years?

    Yeah…you probably would.

  144. BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    GF -

    A valid point, and I agree.

  145. Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    BIG AL,

    Perhaps you should direct that sentence to GB7 who can’t seem to disagree with anyone without calling them a moron or something equally dull witted. Being an old lecher acting as a rotofeed and re-tweeter shouldn’t give him this teflon ability to be an ass all the time.

  146. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    GreenBeret7 – seriously now. Take a look at what I’m saying and tell me where I am wrong:

    1. Eduardo Nunez is a utility infielder for the Yankees & Hector Noesi is a middle reliever for the Yankees

    2. The Yankees offered a 32 year old pitcher with back issues a 7 year deal for around $26 million per year

    3. The most highly touted FA pitcher outside of CC Sabathia this winter will be CJ Wilson

    4. CJ Wilson is most likely going to ask for a contract in the range of that given to AJ Burnett/John Lackey

    5. Johan Santana is only under contract for another 3 years after this one.

    6. Johan’s contract calls for part of his money to be paid at a later date – meaning that the Yankees in 2012, 2013, and 2014 would only be paying him around $20 mil per year rather than the stated value of his contract $25 mil per year.

  147. austinmac July 12th, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    Fellow Bloggers,

    Please get along. I like your posts, trade suggestions and reasons why the suggestion may not be valid.

    We must all remember our opinions are just for fun.

  148. LGY July 12th, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    Not sure the Yanks were acting in detached and disinterested generosity…

    I would like to hear that argument tho.

  149. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 5:48 pm
    You’d be satisfied with Pena playing 20-30 games a year at shortstop, another 10 at 2nd and another 20 or so at third base for the next 3 years?

    Yeah…you probably would.

    —————–

    Where did I say I would be satisfied with Pena? I don’t believe I ever mentioned Pena. I said that every winter there are about a dozen utility infielders available which, I think pretty clearly, expresses that if the Yankees were to trade Eduardo Nunez they would likely go outside the org to find a replacement for that role – completely discounting the very existance of Ramiro Pena.

  150. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    Mac, yeah, one will have to go, I’d think. They have very little experuience at 3rd, so, a team like the Dodgers, Colorado or maybe San Diego are logical spots in a multi-player deal. Neither have any shortstop experience in the pros. Not sure they have the range or arm…certainly not what Nunez offers. As a stand alone trade, they might bring a mid-range reliever unless a team needs a definite fix and quick. Don’t see them as utility types.

  151. BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    JF -

    All I’m saying, argue the point, and make your point.

    When you, me or anyone else can’t convince others our point is valid, attacking GB7, or others, does not validate you’re point, it only leads to unnecessary fights on the blog, that’s all I was saying. I’ll back out now, because I don’t wish to be a source of the argument.

  152. Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    All I’m saying, argue the point, and make your point.

    Sure, but why are you going after me? GB7 started it. I got into you about this before, police both ways or don’t bother.

  153. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    Giuseppe Franco July 12th, 2011 at 5:47 pm
    What Santana did last season for the Mets is kind of irrelevant because….

    A.) It was before his latest injury/surgery

    B.) It was in the NL pitching half his games in the Grand Canyon

    C.) He would be pitching against much tougher competition in the AL East and in a smaller ballaprk

    ——————-

    Well he was pretty effective in the AL for a long time right?

    Sure it’s a risk, but then again so is giving CJ Wilson a 5 year $88 mil contract; so would have been giving Cliff Lee a 7 year deal. This is a short term risk.

  154. austinmac July 12th, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    Chip and GB,

    I say the Yankees watch Santana, if he pitches, and make a judgment. It would certainly be a huge injury risk regardless of a successful short term of pitching.

    I question how likely the Yankees would be to get Wilson. Many teams, including the Ranger, have money and are willing to spend it. It’s a rare day the Yankees blow anyone out of the water, and then, how smart is that?

  155. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
    JF -

    All I’m saying, argue the point, and make your point.

    When you, me or anyone else can’t convince others our point is valid, attacking GB7, or others, does not validate you’re point, it only leads to unnecessary fights on the blog, that’s all I was saying. I’ll back out now, because I don’t wish to be a source of the argument.

    ————–

    Al,

    In fairness, GB did start the name calling this time. Which isn’t really new – he resorts to it whenever someone disagrees with him.

    You should have seen the names he called me when I suggested that he was way off base thinking Rene Rivera would be a fantastic option for the Yankees behind the plate.

  156. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    If Jeter’s out and Nunez is gone, just who in Hell do you think is playing shortstop? Gardner? The only close to ready shortstop in the system is….that’s right…nobody.

  157. hardwired7 July 12th, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    Anyone with a good view of Manhattan can view ‘Manhattanhedge’ right about now:

    http://nz.entertainment.yahoo......ttanhenge/

  158. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    austinmac July 12th, 2011 at 5:56 pm
    Chip and GB,

    I say the Yankees watch Santana, if he pitches, and make a judgment. It would certainly be a huge injury risk regardless of a successful short term of pitching.

    I question how likely the Yankees would be to get Wilson. Many teams, including the Ranger, have money and are willing to spend it. It’s a rare day the Yankees blow anyone out of the water, and then, how smart is that?

    ————

    Austinmac -

    I completely agree with you. I’ve said from the start that this entire Santana suggestion is based on him showing that he’s healthy.

    And if my choices are trade for him and the 3 years left on his deal or hand a 2 year starter the keys to the vault, I would much sooner go with Santana.

  159. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    In all fairness, considering your trade propsals…you deserved to be laughed at. You’re as bad with those as Bret.\

  160. Bronx Jeers July 12th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    The funny thing is that if he does get taxed for the seats I/m sure they’ll take the tax amount from their retail value which has nothing to do with their actual value. How valuable are unsold seats? And on the tix market those seats go for 50% or more off retail.

    It doesn’t seem fair that you should have to pay taxes on the retail value of something that’s vastly overpriced.

  161. Betsy July 12th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    Nova will have to bide his time in AAA – the Yankees are not going to yank someone out of the rotation after a few bad starts. I assume we’re talking Phil only – no way Garcia, AJ or Colon are candidates to be yanked. The Yankees made a committment to Phil in the rotation when they chose him over Nova – IMO, unless he’s just dreadful over an extended period, he’s in the rotation to stay – and that’s as it should be. I don’t get this passion for Nova. He’s done a fine job and he’s a promisng young pitcher, but he’s not the type you try and shoehorn into the rotation.

  162. BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    CJ Wilson is younger, and healthier than Santana.

    After surgery, it could take months to even know what you could expect from Santana, and you can’t look at how he pitched in the AL in the past, he was a much different pitcher then.

    I don’t want the Yankees to sign aging stars that have that much of a question mark hanging over them, JMO.

  163. MTU July 12th, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    HW-

    Unfortunately it’s a bit far for me.

    Ever dine at a place called Giondo’s ? Views are fantastic. Food superb.

  164. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 5:58 pm
    If Jeter’s out and Nunez is gone, just who in Hell do you think is playing shortstop? Gardner? The only close to ready shortstop in the system is….that’s right…nobody.

    ————————–

    If the Yankees traded Nunez in the winter (as I’m suggesting) then why does the utility infielder have to come from within the system?

    Clint Barmes
    Orlando Cabrera
    Ronny Cedeno
    Omar Infante
    Felipe Lopez

    Just off the top of my head – those are guys who I think are free agents at the end of this year and could fill the role of utility infielder.

  165. Giuseppe Franco July 12th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    # Chip July 12th, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    Well he was pretty effective in the AL for a long time right?

    Sure it’s a risk, but then again so is giving CJ Wilson a 5 year $88 mil contract; so would have been giving Cliff Lee a 7 year deal. This is a short term risk.

    ———-

    Oh, c’mon. You can’t really compare the Santana of 2001-2007 to the one who hasn’t pitched this season yet and just had major shoulder surgery.

    He’s not the same pitcher, even if he does come back healthy.

    Besides, what makes you think CJ Wilson is going to be a Yankee next season?

    All the speculation and rumor mongering is BS at this point. A lot can happen between now and the offseason.

  166. Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    CJ Wilson is younger, and healthier than Santana.

    But he is also a career reliever that has only started for 1.5 years. How healthy can he be going forward as a 30+ year old?

  167. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    Mac, the Yanks may watch Santana, but, only to push the deal higher for a team like Boston, who neither has the bodies nor the inclination to spend $25 mil a year while being saddled with Lackey’s contract.

  168. Chip July 12th, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
    CJ Wilson is younger, and healthier than Santana.

    After surgery, it could take months to even know what you could expect from Santana, and you can’t look at how he pitched in the AL in the past, he was a much different pitcher then.

    I don’t want the Yankees to sign aging stars that have that much of a question mark hanging over them, JMO.

    —————

    CJ is going to be 31 this year; Johan just turned 32 in March – so younger is out.

    Healthier? Sure. But Wilson has only been a starter for 2 years – sign him to a 5 year deal and you can’t tell me you’re confident he’s not going to break down.

    There’s a risk whenever you sign a player to a long term deal. By getting Johan for 3 years I’m shaving at least 2 years of risk off the deal.

  169. GreenBeret7 July 12th, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    Wilson is not a NY type of player. More of a nutcase California type or a cowboy.

  170. hardwired7 July 12th, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    “Ever dine at a place called Giondo’s ?”

    I can’t say that I have, but judging by their website their views are definitely killer, MTU.

    Thanks for the tip.

  171. BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    Chip -

    Perhaps the way to go, if you get the player and agent on the same page, less in years, more in dollars. This cuts down on the risk of a long term contract, and does not block the teams ability to make better deals in the near future.

  172. BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    MTU -

    Not only a guide for hiking trips, but a connoisseur of fine dinning.

  173. comet July 12th, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    What’s with all the attacks this season on GB7? Get over it men.

  174. austinmac July 12th, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    As has been said many times, the Yankees depth is at pitcher and catcher. I would like them to use it to acquire a young position high ability player. Since the Yankee strength is in two valuable positions, it does seem something they could do. Rasmus would be interesting. If Noesi is as good as Nova, why not Nova.

  175. Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    What’s with all the attacks this season on GB7? Get over it men.

    Are you ignoring GB7s constant attacks on everyone else?

  176. MaineYankee July 12th, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    Chip

    The Yankees can just sign Kazmir and not have to pay big dollars or prospect.

    That way they minimize risk.

  177. Jerkface July 12th, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    Kazmir is toast.

  178. BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    Kazmir is toast, he’s getting lit up in the MiL system.

  179. BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    JF -

    We agree on something, lol.

  180. MaineYankee July 12th, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    BIG AL July 12th, 2011 at 6:16 pm
    Kazmir is toast, he’s getting lit up in the MiL system.

    —————————————————————–

    I omitted this. :lol:

  181. MaineYankee July 12th, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    Big Al

    It made about as much sense as some of the trades proposals that were floated here.

  182. alvarofer July 12th, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    And somehow Hector Noesi get completely overlooked … this is a guy who has demonstrated ability to perform at this level.


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