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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Yankees at the break: First base

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jul 13, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

A little more than two years ago, the Yankees set their course at first base by giving an eight-year deal to Mark Teixeira. He is the Yankees recent past, their obvious present and their distant future at the position.

First half
It was kind of an unusual first half for Teixeira. He’s on pace for a career-high in home runs, but a career-low in batting average. He’s been plenty productive with the team-high in RBI, but he’s also been streaky. Teixeira has homered in three straight games four different times this year, including the first three games of the season. He has all-star type numbers, but at a position with Adrian Gonzalez, Paul Konerko and Miguel Cabrera, Teixeira was crowded out.

Second half
He’s not having the same sort of all-around season that he had in his Yankees debut, but if Teixeira keeps up this pace, he’ll probably get some of those back-of-the-ballot MVP votes. Eighth, ninth and tenth-place votes, that sort of thing. He hasn’t done much this July, but Teixeira is typically a better second-half hitter, with his best month-by-month numbers coming in August and September. Teixeira’s not going anywhere, but the Yankees have discovered that they can play Jorge Posada at first base occasionally to give him a few days off.

The minors
Jorge Vazquez is nowhere near the top prospect in the system, but he might be the most immediately intriguing. Plucked out of Mexico, Vazquez was a spring training standout, and he’s now a Triple-A all-star with the organization’s minor league lead in home runs. At 29 years old, he is what he is, and that might be enough to be productive should the Yankees find a spot for him. Lower in the minors, Charleston first baseman Kyle Roller hit enough to earn a mid-season call-up to Tampa, and the way down in the Gulf Coast League, last year’s 13th-round pick Tyler Austin is off to a strong start while playing both infield corners.

One question
Should Teixeira fall into the cleanup spot now that Rodriguez is out?
The Yankees could bump Robinson Cano up a spot to fill the cleanup void, or they could move Brett Gardner into the leadoff spot, move Curtis Granderson into the No. 3 hole and give the switch-hitting Teixeira the No. 4 spot between lefties Granderson and Cano.

The future
Nothing has happened this season to change the Yankees long-term plans at first base. Teixeira is still a middle-of-the-order hitter in his prime, and his power numbers have helped make up for Alex Rodriguez’s relative lack of power in the cleanup spot. First base still belong to Teixeira for the foreseeable future.

Associated Press photo

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138 Responses to “Yankees at the break: First base”

  1. NYYROC July 13th, 2011 at 8:10 am

    I read the NYP article about Hughes changing CB and mechanics. I commend PH for recognizing he’s not progressing and attempting to improve. Risky doing it vs his nemesis Bautista & Co. Shouldn’t he being doing this in AAA? Going back to his old CB will make a lot of fans here happy. I’m optimistic for him. Huuuuuughes!

  2. blake July 13th, 2011 at 8:15 am

    I think its great than Hughes and the Yanks recongnized that the Loopy 72 mph CB he was throwing up there wasn’t doing much for him…..that’s half the battle….now the other half is making the pitch effective and that may take a little time. He’s still got the tools to be really good and let’s not forget he’s only 25.

  3. Betsy July 13th, 2011 at 8:17 am

    NYYROC, I think it’s best that Hughes work with Rothschild…………it’s risky indeed, but his career has stalled so this is a good thing. I didn’t read the article yet, but thanks for pointing that out.

    Tex is very good, but he simply is not the same player – he used to be a.300 hitter; is he now a .240/.250 hitter? He’s a guy that can get very hot, but he really depends on Alex quite a bit. He’s going to have to carry this team in his absence.

  4. mick July 13th, 2011 at 8:19 am

    glad the ASG is over…now can we return to real baseball??!!!
    ========================================
    Why? The nap it provided was worthwhile.

  5. NYYROC July 13th, 2011 at 8:19 am

    Betsy, I agree, Phil has kind of stalled, so it is good to try something. I though his comment about the 2007 injury changing his mechanics was interesting. Funny, many fans here have commented that he hasn’t looked the same since. Maybe he hasn’t been.

  6. mick July 13th, 2011 at 8:20 am

    Still think Yanks could get a lot for Hughes.

  7. PacoDooley July 13th, 2011 at 8:21 am

    I like slotting Tex into the 4 hole, with Cano staying at 5, Granderson at 3, Jeter at 2 and Gardner leading off. That would be a really strong lineup, and you can hopefully get decent production from Nunez in the 9 hole or something like that.

    With A-Rid out, I am actually more worried about the loss defensively than I am offensively. This team can score runs with the A-Rod-less offence, but I worry that Nunez will throw a lot of balls away from 3rd. Hopefully Chavez can return and give them a second option at 3rd.

  8. Betsy July 13th, 2011 at 8:22 am

    The thing is, I never read that he’d had a power curve in the minors – I read that he had a loopy kind of curve. He came in to ST in 2009 with a power curve and it was great- everyone loved it. He didn’t use it in the pen that much and it disappeared.

    As to his mechanics, I guess 2007 still haunts…….he suffered severe leg injuries. Maybe he’ll become more of the drop and drive pitcher he apparently used to be?

  9. Betsy July 13th, 2011 at 8:23 am

    NYYRoc, at the time, I was concerned that his leg injuries would have changed his mechanics, but he pitched well after August of that year. Forget most of 2008, but when he came back he pitched well. I’ve noticed that he’s had some issues with his mechanics off and on since, maybe because they aren’t his old ones that he apparently repeated very well.

  10. Mell July 13th, 2011 at 8:26 am

    he used to be a.300 hitter

    ===================

    He’s really been more of a .285 type than .300, but the .252 over the last year and a half is a little disconcerting. Can’t argue it hasn’t been a productive .252 though. If he’s hitting 30+ homers and driving in 110-120, while scoring around 100 runs(could be touch and go on the 100 runs this season) and playing strong defense, you can’t worry about him too much.

  11. mick July 13th, 2011 at 8:27 am

    Hughes in a deal for Justin Upton of the DBacks is appealing.
    AZ could reunite Phil and IPK.

  12. PacoDooley July 13th, 2011 at 8:27 am

    I agree with everyone that Hughes can still be a huge talent for the Yankees. People tend to forget that he came up as the youngest player in the League at that time. He’s been around for a while now, but he is still the same age as guys pitching in their second big league season.

  13. randy l. July 13th, 2011 at 8:27 am

    blake-

    if there is ever anyone who debunks the phrase “he has nothing else to learn at triple a” it’s hughes.

    he had a very simplistic way of dominating for a short time at triple a and because there was not much depth to hughe’s arsenal of pitches or to his knowledge of how to pitch he has struggled with consistency during his mlb career.

    it’s not enough to win at triple a. a pitcher needs to develop the ability to get it done in multiple ways.

    personally, i’m kind of tired of hughe’s underachieving. he’s going to have to show something for me to really get behind him. he seems to have developed some sort of ability to fail that is holding him back. it’s like he figures out way’s to make things go wrong.

    get it right hughes, and quit messing around.

  14. Mell July 13th, 2011 at 8:29 am

    Hughes in a deal for Justin Upton of the DBacks is appealing

    =========================

    You’d have to send plenty of high end company with Hughes to get Upton.

  15. Betsy July 13th, 2011 at 8:29 am

    If Randy is tired of Hughes, you know that Hughes has very little rope with any Yankee fan. My guess is they’d be perfectly fine to see him stashed in the minors and not see him up here again.

  16. mick July 13th, 2011 at 8:30 am

    If Hughes has 2-3 more mediocre starts there will be teams interested by the trade deadline.
    Getting him on the cheap.

  17. Betsy July 13th, 2011 at 8:30 am

    ON the other hand, based on Randy’s criticisms, the Yankees would be the ones to blame…………

  18. 108 stitches July 13th, 2011 at 8:30 am

    The next week to 10 days are decision days for Cashman who has probably opened lines of communication with other GM’s to see what’s being offered and if the price in talent is too high.
    Nunez and Hughes will be closely watched. If jones is dumped and another LH is added to the bullpen, Cashman hasn’t done bad.

  19. mick July 13th, 2011 at 8:31 am

    Hughes has become a project.
    Fans will wake up shortly if he continues to struggle.

  20. NYYROC July 13th, 2011 at 8:33 am

    Betsy, Maybe his mechanics are why he hasn’t been consistent. He has great games but doesn’t seem to maintain it(like CC does). If PH is healthy he’ll be fine beacuse I think he has talent and the desire to work and succeed. Sometimes fans talk about him being stubborn but he is showing a willingness to change. Plus the competition from Nove, Noesi, the 2 Bs etc. has to be driving him too.

  21. mick July 13th, 2011 at 8:33 am

    It’s not fair to Nova being sent down.
    Hughes cannot block him with mediocre starts.

  22. pat July 13th, 2011 at 8:35 am

    “My guess is they’d be perfectly fine to see him stashed in the minors and not see him up here again.”

    That would be a collosal waste of a resource the Yankees have invested alot in and nowhere near the truth would be my guess.

  23. Mell July 13th, 2011 at 8:35 am

    If Hughes has 2-3 more mediocre starts there will be teams interested by the trade deadline.
    Getting him on the cheap.

    =======================

    Cashman won’t let him go cheap. Probably won’t let him go at all, but if for some reason he does, it won’t be for a substandard package.

  24. BD (Boston Dave) July 13th, 2011 at 8:36 am

    If PH struggles, it’s either his own fault, or nobody’s fault (and just the way it is.)

    Sooner or later it’s a players sole responsibility to show they are worth a damn (Dusty Baker running pitchers into the ground not withstanding.)

    Plenty of time for PH to do that. A half season doesn’t make a career.

  25. Betsy July 13th, 2011 at 8:37 am

    NYYRoc, he’s not a CC type talent, not even close, so it’s really not fair to compare him like that. It’s true that he loses velocity relatively early in games, but I don’t know that that’s a mechanical

    As to the desire, that’s a bit shaky to me – coming into camp overweight is not a good sign. Also, I definitely think he’s stubborn……I don’t think he needs to rely on the change, but he’s refused to use it. He didn’t use it after he had a very good ST with it in 2010 and he admitted he got caught up in his early results with the FB/cutter. He can’t afford to be stubborn at this point – look at where he is in his career now. Yankee fans dislike him and would prefer not to give him another shot and his trade value is nil. It’s kind of depressing.

  26. mick July 13th, 2011 at 8:37 am

    Phil’s 2nd and 3rd starts vs Oak and Sea at home will be crucial.
    If he can’t hack it against these 2 weak hitting teams the outcry will begin.
    The trade deadline looms…

  27. BD (Boston Dave) July 13th, 2011 at 8:37 am

    How old was Buchholz when he started to put it together?

  28. Erin July 13th, 2011 at 8:37 am

    RobinsonCano Just landed in NYC, thank you to all my fans this was an amazing all star weekend. Couldnt have done it without you guys

    This is great: RiverAveBlues Who are the loudest Yankees on the team plane? Nick Swisher and Joba Chamberlain of course. http://on.wsj.com/pJ6G6b

    awwww…… :) AndrewMarchand After HR Derby, A-Rod texted @RobinsonCano and said, “Good job, so proud of you, man.”

  29. Betsy July 13th, 2011 at 8:38 am

    BD, it’s not his fault if he’s not ready to pitch in the majors and the Yankees keep him up here. If he lacks the stuff and reperotire to be a major league pitcher, he should be in the minors – that’s not Phil’s call. I have posted numerous times, including last night, that I think players are responsible for their careers -

  30. Betsy July 13th, 2011 at 8:38 am

    but they are not responsible for how their team goes about developing them

  31. Betsy July 13th, 2011 at 8:40 am

    Mell, Phil is not going to bring anything back – his trade value is nil. I don’t think they are going to try and trade him at this point because I believe that once they decide that he’s not here long term, he’ll go back to the pen where he’d probably be best off in the short-term.

    As long as he’s not outright bad, Phil is going to stay in the rotation – and he should. I do not think the Yankees put him back in the rotation only to have a very short rope with him.

  32. mick July 13th, 2011 at 8:40 am

    Why must we play the blame game?
    Results are what matters.

  33. Betsy July 13th, 2011 at 8:41 am

    Pat, have you read the comments here about Phil? On other boards? Fans have lost any patience they might ever have had with him…….. many are just done with him and clearly prefer Nova. I’m not saying all fans feel that way, but he’s got very little rope with fans at this point.

  34. mick July 13th, 2011 at 8:42 am

    If Phil can’t hack it as a starter and has lost his overpowering stuff, that will not translate into the pen.

  35. Betsy July 13th, 2011 at 8:42 am

    BD, I don’t know – 26? Buchholz had the pitches though – Phil has a lot more to work on. Buchholz also had and has much better stuff.

  36. Betsy July 13th, 2011 at 8:43 am

    K-Rod traded to the Brewers ………..later!

  37. upstate kate July 13th, 2011 at 8:43 am

    Erin
    that explains why Mitre is back…he is needed for red sox brawls :)

    put me down as one who still has confidence in Phil

  38. Mell July 13th, 2011 at 8:44 am

    How old was Buchholz when he started to put it together?

    ============================

    2nd half of the 2009 season when he seemed to get going. He’d just turned 25.

    Don’t think there’s an age formula anyway. Plenty of guys have figured out at an age considerably younger than Hughes, and some all time greats put together when they were older than Hughes.

  39. pat July 13th, 2011 at 8:45 am

    Question perhaps only Hughes really knows the answer to is he having a crisis of confidence or a crisis of “stuff”?

    Different fixes depending on the answer.

  40. Yankee Trader July 13th, 2011 at 8:48 am

    Teixeira will always trail Gonzalez and Cabrera in consistency as long as they play in AL. A-Gone’s BA will always be better because he can hit the other way against the shift and Tex has been unable to do this. Gonzalez will even lay down a bunt for a hit when the shift is on.

    Cabrera incidentally suffered the dreaded oblique strain last night.

  41. Mell July 13th, 2011 at 8:49 am

    Pat:

    An excellent point.

  42. Mell July 13th, 2011 at 8:52 am

    Cabrera incidentally suffered the dreaded oblique strain last night

    ========================

    Says if it was a regular season game, he would have stayed in it. Says he’ll play Friday. Doesn’t seem that bad………which is good for my AL-only fantasy team.

  43. GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 8:53 am

    BD (Boston Dave) July 13th, 2011 at 8:37 am
    How old was Buchholz when he started to put it together?

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    And then fell back because of injuries. Sound familiar? Hughes only needs the health and slight adjustments. Those that want Hughes dumped for anything they can get are beyond ridiculous. He’s 25 years old. Look at some of the best pitchers in history and their age when they finally put it together, Spahn was 26, Koufax was 25, Guidry was 26, Gibson was 25, Nolan Ran was 25 , Randy Johnson was 25. Looks like a familiar pattern. Look at the fast starters…Vida Blue, Gary Nolan and Dwight Gooden. They rose fast and young and dropped just as fast and young.

    There are arms that you just give up on and some, you don’t. It’s up to Hughes and his teachers to figure out which one he is.

  44. pat July 13th, 2011 at 8:54 am

    “have you read the comments here about Phil?

    A little bit and it usually annoys me.

    “On other boards? “”

    No. Here is quite enough.

    “Fans have lost any patience they might ever have had with him”

    Contrary to what some here would like, fans opinions are really quite unimportant in the development of players.

  45. Erin July 13th, 2011 at 8:54 am

    Kate-we knew there had to be a reason! ;)

  46. Yankee Trader July 13th, 2011 at 8:54 am

    Yes K-Rod was traded with $$$ to the Brewers for the PTBNLx2.

    Will he reach 55 games finished? His #’s against lefties is poor, while Axfords are very good and both are righties. Maybe they will be co-closers depending on the situation. Brewers in it to win it this year!

    Beltran is next.

  47. Chip July 13th, 2011 at 8:55 am

    Three things:

    1. Hughes isn’t being traded. Please keep in mind that 2/5 of the current Yankee rotation are Bartolo Colon and Freddy Garcia, neither are long term options. Phelps, Warren, Noesi and Mitchell may be nice pitchers but if they were ML ready then we wouldn’t have seen the likes of Brian Gordon coming through here.

    2. My lineup with Alex out:
    Jeter
    Granderson
    Tex
    Cano
    Swisher
    Posada
    Martin
    Nunez
    Gardner

    3. Given the trade the Mets made late last night – I may have been wrong about my Santana speculation. Not only do I still believe the Yankees could get him, but I a) don’t think it would cost both Nunez and Noesi and b) I think the Mets may be willing to eat as much as $15 mil of his contract. For those who missed it, Sandy Alderson dealt K-Rod to Milwaukee last night along with $5 million (essentially all the money left on K-Rod’s contract this year) for two players to be named later.

  48. Erin July 13th, 2011 at 8:56 am

    pat July 13th, 2011 at 8:54 am

    ?On other boards? ??

    No. Here is quite enough.

    *******************

    +100 :)

  49. GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 8:58 am

    It doesn’t make a damned how much “rope” fans give Hughes. Their opinions and likes don’t mean squat. It’s the team’s opinion that matters. If fans opinions mattered, the graveyards for baseball players would be triple stacked with corpses.

  50. Mell July 13th, 2011 at 8:58 am

    Will he reach 55 games finished?

    ==========================

    I’d say the chances of this are 0.0%. He’s at 34 now, and he’s not closing in Milwaukee.

  51. MTU July 13th, 2011 at 9:02 am

    Short term Rx for Hughes : Simplify things. Work on FB command and improving the curve. Minimize the use of that cutter.

    Longer term: Work in the CU (always thought he’d be a good candidate for a splitter), and a learn a 2 seamer.

  52. Chip July 13th, 2011 at 9:03 am

    Mell July 13th, 2011 at 8:58 am
    Will he reach 55 games finished?

    ==========================

    I’d say the chances of this are 0.0%. He’s at 34 now, and he’s not closing in Milwaukee.

    —————

    I think you’re wrong on that Mell. From reading Melvin’s comments I would guess he’s absolutely going to be their closer.

  53. pat July 13th, 2011 at 9:04 am

    For whoever was complaining about Martin not geting into the game last night, he went to Ron Washington and told him it would be okay to play Wieters instead of him so Wieters could play in his 1st ASG appearance and he would be okay sitting on the bench in case of emergency.

  54. MaineYankee July 13th, 2011 at 9:04 am

    pat

    Thanks for that link to the WSJ article.

  55. Erin July 13th, 2011 at 9:05 am

    Gossip Break:

    http://tiny.cc/9yhvi

  56. Yankee Trader July 13th, 2011 at 9:05 am

    I guess no one wants to give their opinion on Tex’s inability to hit the other way or bunt occasionally against the shift.

    Will Carlos Beltran invoke his NTC for any trades to AL teams where his numbers might decline trying to learn new pitchers and therefore risk losing his next big contract? I’m guessing he’ll be traded soon to the Giants, who have already had their players working on him during the Mets last series in San Fran, on the plane ride to Phoenix and at the ASG. Brian Wilson made a pitch for him last night while announcing the NL lineup for FOX.

  57. Yankee Trader July 13th, 2011 at 9:10 am

    Chip

    If it’s the 9th inning save situation against the Phillies with Chase Utley and Ryan Howard due up, in those kind of scenarios, if I were Melvin I’d be bringing in Axford who holds lefties to a <.200 BA while K-Rods is well north of .300.

  58. GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 9:11 am

    It’s not likely that Teixeira will ever be able to level out his left handed swing. He has little room for error with that severe uppercut. The only switch hitter that had two such diverse swings from the two sides is Mantle. Most others had pretty similar swings from both sides. Teixeira’s right handed swing is almost perfectly level. I’d give up some homers from the left side for more consistancy, but, perhaps that’s just his swing. It seems that it’s always been like that (just not to this extint) and not YS short fence that’s caused it.

  59. Chip July 13th, 2011 at 9:11 am

    Yankee Trader July 13th, 2011 at 9:05 am
    I guess no one wants to give their opinion on Tex’s inability to hit the other way or bunt occasionally against the shift.

    ——————

    I’ll give my opinion:

    If Tex were to lay down a bunt I would throw my remote control through the television.

    He’s the number three hitter in the lineup, I don’t want him laying down bunt singles to up his batting average; I want him to beat the shift by driving the ball over their heads.

  60. blake July 13th, 2011 at 9:14 am

    Randy,

    I can’t argue there…..though Hughes basically dominates the minors every time he’s there and I think perhaps the Yankees thought that it would help his.development more to be challenged in the big leagues. I didn’t see Hughes pitch much in the minors but I’ve read reports that his curveball was better then than it is now. I think he’s just a strange case…..a guy that has the fastball and command to dominate AAA but has yet to develop the overall arsenal to do the same in the majors. I still think he can get there…

    I don’t have numbers in front of me to support this but I think a good chunk of Teixera’s BA is bein taken away by the shift and teams defending him better. He can’t hit the ball on the ground the other way from the left side with his swing so why put fielders there. Should he change his swing mechanics? Should be try and bunt or slash to 3B to keep teams honest with the shift? Or should he just try to hit bombs from that side? Seems he’s chosen option #3 for now.

  61. Chip July 13th, 2011 at 9:14 am

    Yankee Trader July 13th, 2011 at 9:10 am
    Chip

    If it’s the 9th inning save situation against the Phillies with Chase Utley and Ryan Howard due up, in those kind of scenarios, if I were Melvin I’d be bringing in Axford who holds lefties to a <.200 BA while K-Rods is well north of .300.

    ——————-

    I don't think you bring in a closer like K-Rod and hope that he can adapt to being a non-closer. It hardly ever works out well for the team that tries it. Ask the Yankees with Soriano or the Red Sox with Gagne. Axford has been that set up guy a lot more recently than K-Rod was, I think it will be a ton easier to move him back to the 8th than it would K-Rod.

    Now of course there's the money situation which isn't anything to be ignored. You're talking about potentially making Rodriguez the highest paid closer in baseball at nearly $18 mil next year – that would be a lot of money for a team like the Brewers to shell out.

  62. Bronx Jeers July 13th, 2011 at 9:15 am

    “… Word has it that every free minute Jeter’s had since Saturday when he became the first Yankee in history to have 3,000 hits, he’s been hanging out at his $10,000 Tampa Bay mansion — reportedly the biggest on the entire bay… ”

    A $ 10,000 mansion? Biggest on the Bay? Tampa here I come!

  63. Chip July 13th, 2011 at 9:16 am

    Just out of curiosity – does it concern anyone that the same people who developed Hughes, Joba and Ian Kennedy are now developing the “next wave” in Betances, Brackman and Banuelos using the same methods?

    And we, as fans, are lavishing just as much hype on this group as we did on the Hughes/Joba/Kennedy group.

    This is why prospect hugging is a bad idea.

  64. Crawdaddy July 13th, 2011 at 9:16 am

    “It doesn’t make a damned how much “rope” fans give Hughes. Their opinions and likes don’t mean squat. It’s the team’s opinion that matters. If fans opinions mattered, the graveyards for baseball players would be triple stacked with corpses.”

    So true!

  65. Yankee Trader July 13th, 2011 at 9:16 am

    From the NY Post:

    For the Brewers this is a perfect situation because they have John Axford to close games. Axford already has 23 saves, and it likely means Rodriguez becomes the setup man for them and that also means the Brewers can keep him below the threshold of 55 games finished that automatically kicks in the $17.5 million option for 2012. The Brewers will be responsible for the $3.5 million buyout if he doesn’t finish 55 games.

    “Francisco has been one of the best relievers in the game for many years,” Brewers general manager Doug Melvin said in a statement. “He is a high-quality arm who will be a tremendous asset to our bullpen as we prepare for the final months of the regular season and playoffs.”

    Looks to me that the Brewers won’t be having that option kick in.

  66. GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 9:17 am

    Opposing managers would love to see Teixeira bunt and slash singles to the opposite field. It’s less damage and hard to hit ground ball homers.

  67. Mell July 13th, 2011 at 9:17 am

    I think you’re wrong on that Mell. From reading Melvin’s comments I would guess he’s absolutely going to be their closer

    =====================

    Nothing I’ve seen him say suggest anything like that. Not saying he won’t get the occasional save opp, but I’ll eat my socks if he finishes 21 games.

  68. blake July 13th, 2011 at 9:19 am

    GB,

    Yea from watching old film of Mantle Id agree that he had a similar swing plane from the left side…..however he didn’t have all the pre pitch movement and doesn’t look like he collapsed his back side as severely……plus Mantle was more talented and could better make up for it and teams didn’t likely shift on him as much. Tex doesn’t keep the bat in the zone long at all from the left side……its in and out and he needs perfect timing to make good contact……what worries me most is that that perfect timing gets tougher and tougher to do the older you get. He’s a much more complete and better hitter from his natural right side.

  69. RadioKev July 13th, 2011 at 9:19 am

    GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 8:58 am
    It doesn’t make a damned how much “rope” fans give Hughes. Their opinions and likes don’t mean squat. It’s the team’s opinion that matters. If fans opinions mattered, the graveyards for baseball players would be triple stacked with corpses.
    ——–

    True words. Also it’s not particularly “risky” for Hughes to rework his curve. It’s not like it was lighting the world on fire, and pitchers experiment with grips all the time. He actually just one of the more open and straightforward pitchers in our system. He’s usually pretty critical of himself, and seems open to changing things.

    And blah blah blah about Nova. His time to serve our organization will come again. Phil Hughes is a bigger development priority as he’s all ready had his first season as a starter which was successful, all things consider. He needs the next step more than Nova does because he’s closer to becoming a final product. Finish his development and then worry about Nova’s, Nova hasn’t shown us anything better than Hughes has in his career.

  70. Mell July 13th, 2011 at 9:19 am

    Ask the Yankees with Soriano

    ======================

    Soriano has been a 7th/8th inning guys most of his career.

  71. GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 9:20 am

    The pitching coaches at AA and AAA are not the same people as in 2005-2007.

  72. Crawdaddy July 13th, 2011 at 9:20 am

    “Just out of curiosity – does it concern anyone that the same people who developed Hughes, Joba and Ian Kennedy are now developing the “next wave” in Betances, Brackman and Banuelos using the same methods?”

    How do you know they’re using the same methods?

    Furthermore, Eiland is not part of the development team now.

    Also, I’m not so sure the Yankees did anything wrong with developing Hughes, Joba and Kennedy except for maybe rushing them a bit or moving them back and forth between the bullpen and starting for Hughes and Joba.

  73. blake July 13th, 2011 at 9:21 am

    Chip,

    I don’t know that they are developing them the same way…..seems they are moving more slowly this time around.

  74. Crawdaddy July 13th, 2011 at 9:22 am

    “The pitching coaches at AA and AAA are not the same people as in 2005-2007.”

    Right, I couldn’t remember the AA coach. Eiland is gone.

  75. Erin July 13th, 2011 at 9:22 am

    Bronx Jeers July 13th, 2011 at 9:15 am

    A $ 10,000 mansion? Biggest on the Bay? Tampa here I come!

    ***************

    I’m coming with you. I want to see St. Jetersburg. ;)

  76. Kelvin July 13th, 2011 at 9:22 am

    Im about to bookmark this lime life page smh

  77. randy l. July 13th, 2011 at 9:24 am

    “Sooner or later it’s a players sole responsibility to show they are worth a damn”

    BD-

    i agree totally.

    i like hughes as a pitcher, but he’s been fast tracked and coddled so much it’s ridiculous.

    i would not have taken away nova’s spot to give it to hughes. i would have made hughes wait until there was an opportunity. this isn’t saying i don’t want hughes to do well, but guys like nova because of all the uncertainty they deal with ( like getting sent down when he was pitching well ) are mentally tougher than hughes.

    i’d like to see some toughness with hughes that comes from having to fight for a spot. i’d like to see him rise above the uncertainty and unfairness other pitchers go through.

    the yankees have not done hughes any favors the way they have developed him, but at a certain point the player has to stop being coachable in the sense that he does everything the team says . he needs to have a healthy bad attitude and a healthy self interest.

    what i mean by this is it’s his career , and the player has to take charge of his game. hughes has to step out from privileged path the yankees have created for him and put up or shut up as far as being a great player. if he just wants to be a solid #3 which isn’t the end of the world he can continue on his same path, but if he wants to be a solid #2 or an ace, he’s got to have a meeting with himself and step it up big time.

  78. Chip July 13th, 2011 at 9:24 am

    Mell July 13th, 2011 at 9:19 am
    Ask the Yankees with Soriano

    ======================

    Soriano has been a 7th/8th inning guys most of his career.

    —————-

    That’s right – and even so – look at how difficult the transition back to EIG was for him – K-Rod’s been closing for a long time, he’s been terrible when managers have brought him in for non-save situations. I’m just suggesting that a pennant race is not the time you want to take that gamble if you’re the Brewers.

  79. Chip July 13th, 2011 at 9:25 am

    Crawdaddy July 13th, 2011 at 9:22 am
    “The pitching coaches at AA and AAA are not the same people as in 2005-2007.”

    Right, I couldn’t remember the AA coach. Eiland is gone.

    ————-

    True but the guy who runs minor league pitching development is the same guy – Nardi Contreras. All the minor league pitching coaches get their marching orders from him.

  80. austinmac July 13th, 2011 at 9:26 am

    Chip,

    The next wave of Yankee pitchers is not considered as strong as the Hughes, Joba and Kennedy group. If young, proven MLB players are available for prospects, that must be considered. The remaining two killer Bs(Brackman is now just a bad B) have along way to go to be MLB ready. The remaining step of command is probably the most difficult to do and difficult to predict.

  81. Crawdaddy July 13th, 2011 at 9:27 am

    “True but the guy who runs minor league pitching development is the same guy – Nardi Contreras. All the minor league pitching coaches get their marching orders from him.”

    So what did Nardi do wrong in their development?

  82. GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 9:27 am

    Blake, in the last 10 ears of Mantle’s career, his back leg caved in just as badly as Teixeira’s, though for different reasons. It gave him the almost same vertical swing. When he connected, the ball went 450-500 feet. When he missed, his knee was on the ground. He had so little time to keep the bat in the strike zone that it was impossible for him to be consistant. There was a 51 point difference in his batting average from left and right. Right was at .330. That’s a dramatic difference.

  83. Yankee Trader July 13th, 2011 at 9:28 am

    Opposing managers would love to see Teixeira bunt and slash singles to the opposite field. It’s less damage and hard to hit ground ball homers.
    ———————————————————–

    GB-

    I see your point, especially in YS when batting from the left side. I remember reading that Tex worked primarily in the cage in the offseason to try and hit the other way, while doing less on the weights.

    I think you’ll agree that Gonzalez and Cabrera, and for that matter, Konerko who both hit lefties and righties >.300 are better offensive and dangerous hitters than Tex in all parks.

  84. NYYROC July 13th, 2011 at 9:29 am

    Chip @ 9:16, Yes I have thought about that. However, I think the NYY may have learned a few things. For instance, in 2009 when CMW came back the NYY decided that PH in the pen was better for him than having him start @ AAA. Not debating PH’s value as a RP in 2009. The team may have not made the playoffs without him. But in 2011, faced with the same need in the pen and the same decision, the NYY decided to send Nova to start at AAA. And Joe came right out and said it was better for Nova’s development.

  85. MaineYankee July 13th, 2011 at 9:30 am

    I don’t think you bring in a closer like K-Rod and hope that he can adapt to being a non-closer. It hardly ever works out well for the team that tries it. Ask the Yankees with Soriano or the Red Sox with Gagne. Axford has been that set up guy a lot more recently than K-Rod was, I think it will be a ton easier to move him back to the 8th than it would K-Rod.

    ——————————————————————————————–

    Gagne was off roids and all done by the time the RS got him.

    It’s to early to judge what the Yankees will get out of Soriano.

  86. heyman_sux July 13th, 2011 at 9:30 am

    Chip July 13th, 2011 at 9:16 am
    Just out of curiosity ? does it concern anyone that the same people who developed Hughes, Joba and Ian Kennedy are now developing the ?next wave? in Betances, Brackman and Banuelos using the same methods?

    And we, as fans, are lavishing just as much hype on this group as we did on the Hughes/Joba/Kennedy group.

    This is why prospect hugging is a bad idea.
    **********

    Why be concerned? IPK is having a solid season (despite being in the NL), Joba was a solid RP (before getting hurt). Still waiting on Hughes but he WAS an 18-game winner just a year ago.

    That’s actually not bad for three pitching prospects…

  87. blake July 13th, 2011 at 9:33 am

    GB,

    You saw him a lot more than I have so Ill take your word for it……I assume Mantle did it more because his knee was shredded though. Im not sure Tex can totally rework his swing at his age but I do think he can make some changes that could help him from that side as he ages. He’s still a good player now…..my concern has always been about how his swing would age.

  88. blake July 13th, 2011 at 9:35 am

    Sandy did a nice job there…..they had to get rid of KRod even if they had to give him away and they did that.

  89. Yankee Trader July 13th, 2011 at 9:36 am

    GB-

    Any thoughts on Tommy Phelps AA and Scott Aldred AAA pitching coaches?

  90. GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 9:36 am

    Contreras and Conners have less to do with the minor league staffs in AA and AAA than Justin Pope in Trenton and Scott Aldred in Scranton.

  91. blake July 13th, 2011 at 9:37 am

    GB,

    If you had to trade one….Phelps or Warren?

  92. MTU July 13th, 2011 at 9:38 am

    Blake-

    Phelps IMO.

  93. MTU July 13th, 2011 at 9:40 am

    So I guess that means Warren.

    :)

  94. Yankee Trader July 13th, 2011 at 9:41 am

    18 Tony Franklin Manager
    51 Julius Matos Batting Coach
    36 Tommy Phelps Pitching Coach
    22 Justin Pope Coach

    GB- Got this from the AA roster. If Pope is their primary pitching coach, do you have any opinions on him as well as Phelps?

  95. pat July 13th, 2011 at 9:41 am

    That Lime Life piece is tabloid genius.

    They take one truth, mix it with a bunch of untruths and present it as it happened just like they said it did .

    :shock:

  96. GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 9:42 am

    Trader,

    my mistake on Pope. He’s the bullpen and additional coach at Trenton. As you said, Phelps is the pitching coach. Not sure about Phelps but love Aldred. He’s going to be good in the majors for somebody. I’d like to see him replace Harkey. Justin Pope in Trenton is good, too. He grew up in the Yankee system and knows the system well. Phelps does have his hands full with new pitchers every week with injuries and promotions. I just don’t know enough about him to say, though.

  97. BoJo July 13th, 2011 at 9:43 am

    Chip

    It’d be great if it were the same guy.

    IPK did pretty well…Tyler Clipper–all star…Joba was rocking before injury…Phil won 18 last year…Nova and Noesi looked good.

    And as far as hugging prospects, I judge with my eyes and Betances looks like the real thing. Banuelos may be as well if he gets better command. Both are young.

    I’d say the Yankees have been doing a very good job developing arms.

  98. GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 9:44 am

    Blake, I like Phelps a lot, but, Warren might be a touch better, though Phelps might be a smarter pitcher. They’re just too close to call.

  99. Chip July 13th, 2011 at 9:44 am

    Crawdaddy July 13th, 2011 at 9:27 am
    “True but the guy who runs minor league pitching development is the same guy – Nardi Contreras. All the minor league pitching coaches get their marching orders from him.”

    So what did Nardi do wrong in their development?

    ————–

    Nothing – Hughes, Joba and Kennedy have all been rousing successes.

  100. MTU July 13th, 2011 at 9:44 am

    Blake-

    A lot of those AAA pitchers are pretty much interchangeable parts.

    There really doesn’t seem to be a lot of difference in cieling between
    Warren, Phelps, or Mitchell.

    None of them has emerged as a clear choice IMO.

  101. Shame Spencer July 13th, 2011 at 9:45 am

    The Mets fire sale is going to be so interesting to watch… I’m really worried we’ll be seeing Jose in a Red Sox uni next season..

  102. Yankee Trader July 13th, 2011 at 9:45 am

    Blake -

    Thoughts on my earlier comment on Carlos Beltran, next Met to be traded soon?

    Will Carlos Beltran invoke his NTC for any trades to AL teams where his numbers might decline trying to learn new pitchers and therefore risk losing his next big contract? I’m guessing he’ll be traded soon to the Giants, who have already had their players working on him during the Mets last series in San Fran, on the plane ride to Phoenix and at the ASG. Brian Wilson made a pitch for him last night while announcing the NL lineup for FOX.

  103. MTU July 13th, 2011 at 9:46 am

    Blake-

    Bottom line.

    In a trade your offer all three on the same list and say pick one.

    ;)

  104. GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 9:47 am

    Yankee Trader July 13th, 2011 at 9:41 am
    18 Tony Franklin Manager
    51 Julius Matos Batting Coach
    36 Tommy Phelps Pitching Coach
    22 Justin Pope Coach

    GB- Got this from the AA roster. If Pope is their primary pitching coach, do you have any opinions on him as well as Phelps?

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Trader, Pope is a born and raised Yankee. Dare I say….”a true Yankee”?

    He’s an additional coach for Franklin and works mostly with the relievers.

  105. heyman_sux July 13th, 2011 at 9:47 am

    Shame Spencer July 13th, 2011 at 9:45 am
    The Mets fire sale is going to be so interesting to watch? I?m really worried we?ll be seeing Jose in a Red Sox uni next season..
    ***********

    It would be even funnier (at the Mets’ expense) to see him to go the Phillies. I believe Rollins comes off the books soon…

  106. Chip July 13th, 2011 at 9:49 am

    BoJo July 13th, 2011 at 9:43 am
    Chip

    It’d be great if it were the same guy.

    IPK did pretty well…Tyler Clipper–all star…Joba was rocking before injury…Phil won 18 last year…Nova and Noesi looked good.

    And as far as hugging prospects, I judge with my eyes and Betances looks like the real thing. Banuelos may be as well if he gets better command. Both are young.

    I’d say the Yankees have been doing a very good job developing arms.

    ————-

    Bojo -

    Kennedy I don’t really blame on development so much as scouting – his stuff was never a good fit for the division or the stadium – he never should have been drafted for this franchise.

    Clippard is a short reliever.

    Joba and Hughes were supposed to be top of the rotation aces.

    Joba is an oft injured non closer and Hughes is an injury plagued mid rotation starter.

  107. GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 9:50 am

    DJ Mitchell, if he isn’t traded as a starter has a great chance to be this era’s Ramiro Mendoza.

  108. BoJo July 13th, 2011 at 9:51 am

    Shame Spencer July 13th, 2011 at 9:45 am
    The Mets fire sale is going to be so interesting to watch? I?m really worried we?ll be seeing Jose in a Red Sox uni next season..
    ____
    That would be fine with me. Once he gets his big contract, I expect him to play most of his games on the DL.

  109. Yankee Trader July 13th, 2011 at 9:51 am

    GB-

    Your opinion on the quality of the NYY pitching coaches at AA and AAA.

  110. Chip July 13th, 2011 at 9:52 am

    GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 9:36 am
    Contreras and Conners have less to do with the minor league staffs in AA and AAA than Justin Pope in Trenton and Scott Aldred in Scranton.

    ————

    That’s just silly.

    When Chamberlain first came to the majors Nardi had more control over his use than Torre and Guidry did. A guy has that much control over a major league pitcher you think he’s going to have less control in the minors?

  111. J. Alfred Prufrock July 13th, 2011 at 9:52 am

    He’s a guy that can get very hot, but he really depends on Alex quite a bit. He’s going to have to carry this team in his absence.
    ///

    Robinson Cano says hello :D

  112. MTU July 13th, 2011 at 9:53 am

    Chip-

    Guys get hurt and sometimes just fail to reach their cielings.

    That’s why the prospect buisness is such a crapshoot.

    What you get is raw talent and aptitude. Takes lot’s of luck to make it all the way.

    There is a tremendous failure rate.

  113. Against All Odds July 13th, 2011 at 9:53 am

    I wouldn’t say rousing successes.

  114. J. Alfred Prufrock July 13th, 2011 at 9:53 am

    …Curtis Granderson, too, says hi.

  115. J. Alfred Prufrock July 13th, 2011 at 9:54 am

    ….& Jeter’s going to go on a tear in the 2nd half.

    No one guy needs to carry us.

  116. BoJo July 13th, 2011 at 9:54 am

    Chip July 13th, 2011 at 9:49 am

    Bojo -

    Kennedy I don’t really blame on development so much as scouting – his stuff was never a good fit for the division or the stadium – he never should have been drafted for this franchise.

    Clippard is a short reliever.

    Joba and Hughes were supposed to be top of the rotation aces.

    Joba is an oft injured non closer and Hughes is an injury plagued mid rotation starter.
    ____
    I have to disagree.

    IPK would have been fine as #3 or #4—Messina did well with same stuff. I never bought that stuff about him not being an AL East pitcher after seeing what he did when first called up. Just more of herd mentality making same comment over and over.

    Clip is an ALL STAR. He was developed by us…

    Hughes and Joba are still 25 and haven’t peaked yet. You are way too impatient.

    Bad judgment IMO on your part to say that the Yankees have done poorly here…but I’ll respect your right to have your own opinion on it.

  117. blake July 13th, 2011 at 9:55 am

    MTU,

    Yes so the answer must be Warren….(though I think Phelps too) ;)

    Trader,

    Yea I think he would ……I would say the Giants are the most likely destination…..I think the Yanks should make a play for him.

  118. BoJo July 13th, 2011 at 9:56 am

    BTW–

    Add DRob to the All Stars Yankees developed..

    All Stars:
    IPK
    Hughes
    Clip
    DRob

    Valuable:
    Joba
    Nova
    Noesi
    Coke?

    If any other team did so well, I suspect fans here would be saying why can’t we do as well.

  119. GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 9:57 am

    Yankee Trader July 13th, 2011 at 9:51 am
    GB-

    Your opinion on the quality of the NYY pitching coaches at AA and AAA

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Trader, they are just fine. The problem seems to be at the lower levels, especially in Tampa. Too much interference down there from Conners and Contreras. I know nothing about the coaches in the two rookie leages.

    The real issue is my dead horse. Fundamentals not being taught at the lower levels…pitchers not being taught to hold runners or make a decent pickoff, hitters not being able to bunt and move runners, base stealers being left on their own.

  120. MTU July 13th, 2011 at 9:58 am

    It usually takes time to make a fine wine and the Yankees are short on it with their mission statement.

    That’s the reality in NYC.

  121. Yankee Trader July 13th, 2011 at 9:58 am

    “K-Rod Didn’t See This Trade Coming”

    Boras was shut out of any ability to negotiate for Rodriguez. Read the attached:

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....ade-071211

  122. GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 9:58 am

    And the worst of them all is not teaching the infielders what the glove is for.

  123. Chip July 13th, 2011 at 10:00 am

    Bojo -

    Unfair to compare Moose to Kennedy. It’s like saying a pitcher with only one plus pitch can thrive in the majors because Mariano has. Moose is a borderline hall of famer; expecting Ian Kennedy to be able to have a long term career in the AL East because Moose did it just doesn’t work.

    If you look at the general picture, pitchers with Kennedy’s profile get lit up in the AL over the long term. Moose was an extreme outlier.

    As for Clip – he made it to the majors with the Yankees, he was converted and groomed into a late inning relief pitcher by the Nationals.

  124. upstate kate July 13th, 2011 at 10:00 am

    biting?

  125. Chip July 13th, 2011 at 10:01 am

    Bojo -

    Yankees have not developed a top of the rotation starter since Andy Pettitte.

    If all that Hughes, Joba, Betances and Banuelos become are All-Star relief pitchers – that’s a failure by the development people.

  126. yankeefeminista July 13th, 2011 at 10:02 am

    Good to see Hughes going to the power curve, much better pitch. Hope the new grip helps.

    Warren needs to keep improving on his secondary stuff, although I admit I haven’t seen him pitch at all this year. He’d be the best candidate of the SP’s from the pen. DJ Mitchell is still my favorite SP of the AAA group.

    Looks like no coverage of EL All Star game as far as I can see. GB, have you noticed any radio links? Norris is going to be in NH, so at least there is that.

  127. GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 10:02 am

    Chip July 13th, 2011 at 9:52 am
    GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 9:36 am
    Contreras and Conners have less to do with the minor league staffs in AA and AAA than Justin Pope in Trenton and Scott Aldred in Scranton.

    ————

    That’s just silly.

    When Chamberlain first came to the majors Nardi had more control over his use than Torre and Guidry did. A guy has that much control over a major league pitcher you think he’s going to have less control in the minors?

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    That’s company policy and Chamberlain was not the only one that had restrictions put on him. Conners was GMS III’s snitch and Contreras somehow got on the inside of the circle.

  128. MTU July 13th, 2011 at 10:02 am

    New thread ==>

  129. Erin July 13th, 2011 at 10:02 am

    New Post- Yankees at the break: Second base

    :arrow:

  130. BoJo July 13th, 2011 at 10:03 am

    Yankee Trader July 13th, 2011 at 9:58 am
    ——
    I think it is to Boras’ benefit commission wise if KRod doesn’t have the option exercised…he is probably very happy with the deal…he gets to blame the prior agent for not protecting KRod and can claim he would have gotten him more money for the deal.

  131. Chip July 13th, 2011 at 10:03 am

    Bojo

    By the way the Clip thing is like if Detroit moved Austin Jackson to catcher and he turned into an All-Star claiming that it is a success of the Yankee system that he’s an all star catcher when the Yankees had absolutely nothing to do with him being a catcher.

  132. BoJo July 13th, 2011 at 10:05 am

    Chip July 13th, 2011 at 10:03 am
    Bojo

    By the way the Clip thing is like if Detroit moved Austin Jackson to catcher and he turned into an All-Star claiming that it is a success of the Yankee system that he’s an all star catcher when the Yankees had absolutely nothing to do with him being a catcher.
    ____
    No it isn’t.

  133. tyanksfan36 July 13th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 9:36 am
    Contreras and Conners have less to do with the minor league staffs in AA and AAA than Justin Pope in Trenton and Scott Aldred in Scranton

    GB, actually Contreras monitors innings pitched on all the minor leaguers, he is responsible for moving a healthy player back a day or 2 so that they will make it through the whole season. Also deciding which reliever should be able to make a spot start. I don’t know what else he does in regard to the pitchers but that’s something I’m certain of.

    Speaking of, the TY have Sneed listed as the starter for tonight. That should be interesting.

  134. BoJo July 13th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    Chip July 13th, 2011 at 10:00 am
    Bojo -

    Unfair to compare Moose to Kennedy. It’s like saying a pitcher with only one plus pitch can thrive in the majors because Mariano has. Moose is a borderline hall of famer; expecting Ian Kennedy to be able to have a long term career in the AL East because Moose did it just doesn’t work.

    If you look at the general picture, pitchers with Kennedy’s profile get lit up in the AL over the long term. Moose was an extreme outlier.
    _________
    Herd mentality comment. IPK showed the ability in his first call up and he is showing it now. He would be fine here IMO. Let’s check his inter-league stats when we get a little time.

  135. GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 10:09 am

    You can’t blame the Yankees because Clippard found an extra 4 MPH on his fastball 3 years later. Albaladejo had better stuff in the bullpen so they made a deal. Hardly unusual for an error in evaluations.

  136. BoJo July 13th, 2011 at 10:10 am

    Chip July 13th, 2011 at 10:01 am
    Bojo -

    Yankees have not developed a top of the rotation starter since Andy Pettitte.

    If all that Hughes, Joba, Betances and Banuelos become are All-Star relief pitchers – that’s a failure by the development people.
    ___
    Wrong again.

    Wang was a top of rotation starter if you call Pettitte one.

    Also Hughes at 24 won 18 games and is still developing.

    IPK is a top of rotation starter on his team

    And I continue to think Joba has more upside than any of the above.

  137. GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 10:11 am

    tyanksfan36 July 13th, 2011 at 10:08 am
    GreenBeret7 July 13th, 2011 at 9:36 am
    Contreras and Conners have less to do with the minor league staffs in AA and AAA than Justin Pope in Trenton and Scott Aldred in Scranton

    GB, actually Contreras monitors innings pitched on all the minor leaguers, he is responsible for moving a healthy player back a day or 2 so that they will make it through the whole season. Also deciding which reliever should be able to make a spot start. I don’t know what else he does in regard to the pitchers but that’s something I’m certain of.

    Speaking of, the TY have Sneed listed as the starter for tonight. That should be interesting.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    That’s what I’m saying. He’s a policy maker for the pitchers and much less a pitching instructor.

  138. BoJo July 13th, 2011 at 10:12 am

    And one way to judge their development staff is how many arms have they burned out. Only Garcia and Horne per my recollection…they are getting the talent to the parent club…

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