Hughes shines as Yankees split in Toronto
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jul 17, 2011 
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In easily his best start of the year, Phil Hughes needed only 80 pitches to throw six strong innings and beat the Blue Jays 7-2 this afternoon. Hughes’ new curveball was a legitimate weapon — he used it to get his first five outs — and he spotted his fastball better than in his previous start. Hughes’ velocity regularly touched 93 mph in the early innings, and he settled into 90-91 (touching 92) in the later innings. He labored a little bit early, and that might have cost him late, but he ultimately struck out five, walked two and allowed four hits. Brett Gardner had his third three-hit game of the series, helping the Yankees settle for a series split after losing the first two games.
Associated Press photo
Pitch Fx (avg/max)
FB: 91.25 92.8
Curve: 74.97 78
Cutter: 88.39 90.6
No changeups.
All Yankee fans should be encouraged by Phil’s outing.
No exceptions!
Nick in SF July 17th, 2011 at 4:04 pm
If you say so……. LOL
Ty Wiggy would be a nice add
I’m fine with no changeups today as Phil is trying to work in his new curve and is using his new mechanics……….You don’t want to do too much, too soon.
Velocity not where it should be, but it was an encouraging game – baby steps.
Nick in SF….Anyone come to mind ???? Man the US Womens team is leaving a lot of base runners in scoring stranded so far
That was the first time in 10 years that I haven’t heard Sterling do his usual end of game celebration.
One thing, though – the decrease in his velocity has to be a concern – but then he had that issue all last year as well. He just doesn’t hold it past a 2/3 innings.
His velocity was very good.
There she goes – just has to blast Hughes about something.
Oh, and nice job splitting the series as it looked bad after the first 2 games
Per MLBT
The Twins recently announced they won’t trade Michael Cuddyer as well.
Finally the Phil hater emerges from the cave.
As a basis of comparison, Phil’s velo on May 1 2007 in his near no-hitter:
92.34 94.1
Gammons spoke with two East coast executives that said Kuroda, who has a full no-trade clause, won’t accept a deal to an East Coast team.
I’m hoping for no trades for pitchers.
“As a basis of comparison, Phil’s velo on May 1 2007 in his near no-hitter:
92.34 94.1″
Okay, so Hughes still has a ways to go. That’s okay. If he stays healthy and continues to work on his mechanics and location, he ought to be back to where he should be by September. Voila: No. 2 starter.
He’s not all the way back. But it’s got to mean something that even without his best stuff, he was able to turn in a solid outing against a very good offense that pummelled the Yankees the first two games of the series.
Rich, to be fair that was only one game. Everyone talks about his curve, his change, his velocity that day – but it was just one game. I don’t think he’s a guy that’s ever going to average 94 – and apparently he didn’t do it in the minors. I don’t get why comparisons inevitably drift back to that one unfortunate day.
I guess it shows though that the knuckle curve is OUT -forever, I hope. I know Phil likes to pick pitchers’ brains, but Moose’s pitch worked for him – it clearly didn’t work for Phil.
BoJo July 17th, 2011 at 4:18 pm
Gammons spoke with two East coast executives that said Kuroda, who has a full no-trade clause, won’t accept a deal to an East Coast team.
—-
Good
Chris W July 17th, 2011 at 4:20 pm
Better yet, a good outing against a team that owned hin all of last season
Betsy
Because that game was representative of what he did in the mL.
Probably well within the error of the gun and the gun operator.
I felt Hughes got squeezed on some pitches. I noticed Villanueva got a lot of the low strikes. Hughes got it on his first strike out. But after that he wasn’t getting it.
I really can’t see any ACE pitcher being available at trade deadline time in a deal that makes sense to the team.
I also don’t think Marlins are moving Choate…Romero might be our LOOGY until Marte can get back.
Seems like the only ones interesting to many of us are Beltran and Melky…but Cashman might bot see it that way.
I don’t think we can reasonably expect Hughes to have his max velo or command right now. There was real improvement from his first start. We can hope that continues for about the next month.
luis July 17th, 2011 at 4:23 pm
Chris W July 17th, 2011 at 4:20 pm
Better yet, a good outing against a team that owned hin all of last season
___
No Bautista or Wells.
Ill take a split at Toronto anytime.
Good day for Hughes…..I would like to see that CB velo up around 78-80 but still the pitch was much better than it has been…..much more bite and depth and the hitterels weren’t reading it right out of his hand.
Rich, true, but I’m not sure there’s any point in looking back since all it would tend to do is make someone wonder “what happened”. It’s been over 4 years now – it’s a very long time ago.
I don’t know what mechanical changes they made – was there a difference in how Hughes used his lower legs? Apparently that’s been an issue since the injury, although obviously it wasn’t in the first half of last year.
Rich, that’s fair about the velocity -and it was a very good improvement, so overall it was a terrific day for the team. Plus, he did it against a team (granted without Bautista) that just kills him………Baby steps.
BoJo July 17th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
luis July 17th, 2011 at 4:23 pm
Chris W July 17th, 2011 at 4:20 pm
Better yet, a good outing against a team that owned hin all of last season
___
No Bautista or Wells.
——–
True, but still a very good hitting team, have to stay positive, LOL
Not that anybodys counting, but, that’s two starts that Hughes could have easily picked up wins and better than anything else this year or a good part of the last two months of ’10. It was also 12 days between starts. By all means find something to whine about with Phil Hughes. He had a couple of rolling curves, walked very few, kept the ball in the park and the only hitter that gave him trouble was the one that gives NY fits all the time (Snyder). He handled two others that hit Yankee pitching often…Lind and Arencibia.
If Hughes threw a perfect game with 26 strikeouts, somebody will whine and criticize Hughes because of that one hitter
Betsy
The point in looking back is to use it as a benchmark to try to assess what his ceiling could be.
He’s still only 25. He has never suffered a major arm injury.
So I don’t think it’s unreasonable to believe that he could still be the #1-#2 he was projected to be.
Probably well within the error of the gun and the gun operator
——
Those readings are not from a radar gun.
Rich, true – he’s not a baby anymore, but he hasn’t reached his prime either.
My biggest realization now is that “wow, Eiland really did suck”. If there were mechanical issues with Phil, did he not spot them? The knuckle curve wasn’t working – why no change? Rothschild can’t pitch for Phil or any of these guys, but I trust him.
Was at the game… boy was it hot.
Looked like a pretty small strike zone today, but very impressed with Hughes’ consistency with the curve ball.
no change ups is a bit if an annoyance since he certain had Snyder set up for one on the first RBI hit.
But a very positive stride for Philly.
Had front row seats along the Yankees side of the field (RF) got to holler “Roll Tide” at Robertson before the guy for a thumbs up and had Swish waving a couple of times, but no one came over to sign anything
OUCH. Piniero allows 8 runs in the first and still only 1 out. I think he’s in trouble.
You think??? Great detective work sir!
Betsy-
One thing, though – the decrease in his velocity has to be a concern – but then he had that issue all last year as well. He just doesn’t hold it past a 2/3 innings.
That is complete bull!! Hughes did not have velocity issues in the later innings last year. His mechanical adjustments had to do with his stride. He left the fast ball up last game and was working on bringing it down. He brings it down and Davis doesn’t like it. Go figure.
I’d say 50/30 strike to ball is a little better than baby steps. He’s going to make even YOU respect him as a major league pitcher so get used to it.
GB7,
Any news on Banuelos start?
Keep the hot hand in Gardner at the top of the lineup. Jeter shouldn’t mind hitting in the No. 2 hole.
A confidence builder with Hughes today.
Nobody knows whether Hughes just lost the feel last summer, whether the innigs were catching up after not reaching 100 innings for 3-4 years, or was it the start of shoulder tendonitis? Whatever, if he gets things straightened around, he’s going to be a major addition to pair with colon/Garcia and Nova.
for a guy that most blog experts said ” had nothing else to learn at triple a” sure is always learning a lot about pitching on the fly.
i can see phil at 32-33 learning the nuances of the “splutter”.
it’s a new pitch( cross between splitter and a cutter) that hasn’t been invented yet , but will be soon.
phil will be right on it.
oh, i’m glad by the way that phil is actually winning a game.
i like that in #2 starters.
One of the worst things in baseball is the radar gun. It implies a higher number is necessarily a good thing, which is isn’t. There are lots if pitchers in MLB that throw harder than Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay for example.
Hughes today was extremely encouraging. But like AJ, he needs to use that changeup
Heyman: Yanks, Rox have had multiple discussions about Ubaldo Jimenez
By Mike Axisa
Via Jon Heyman, the Yankees and Rockies have had multiple conversations about Ubaldo Jimenez, but they have not yet gotten around to exchanging trade offers. Colorado isn?t sure they want to deal their ace yet, and in fact GM Dan O?Dowd told Jerry Crasnick: ?We will listen to anything, but the reality is that [a trade] is not very likely to take place.? That basically means ?blow me away,? because the Rockies aren?t exactly under any kind of pressure to move Jimenez. He?s not going to be a free agent after the season and he?s not old.
Anyway, Heyman says New York is willing to part with Jesus Montero, but Dellin Betances, Manny Banuelos, and Ivan Nova have been deemed untouchable. That?s probably just a negotiating ploy though, those are the kinds of guys you concede later (if need be) rather than offer up front. The Rockies have been scouting the Yankees? farm system of late, so there?s that. Of course this would be much more than a Ubaldo-for-Montero swap, a three- or four-for-one is likely.
Nova untouchable?
Montero, Nova, Noesi, Nunez and Laird for UBALDO.
Banuelos took the loss and control was an issue with 5 walks and a hit batter. Allowed 2 runs in the 1st and the 3rd runs scored when Whitley allowed the inherited run to score in the 6th. He did strike out 6, including Victorino. One of the runs scored on a double steal in the first, with Victorino stealing home.
“splutter” sounds like what I threw at 15… a god awful slider that invariably bounced in front of the plate.. often hitting the batter on a hop.
“Anyway, Heyman says New York is willing to part with Jesus Montero,”
So f’ing stupid if true.
Spidanyc —
That all? You don’t want to include hughes, Gadner, Romine and Carnegie Hall?
We won!
Or not.
Interesting negotiation/poker game going on with Rockies.
BTW – Manny – 5 more walks today.
GOAL USA — We take the lead! Abby Wambach strikes again… Go Gators
Hold it here USA!
I highly doubt Nova is untouchable. He’s being assigned the same status as the B’s so if Colorado insists on one of the B’s then they can’t have Nova. Noesi? Sure. But I’m guessing Cash won’t give up Nova on top of Montero and either Betances or Banuelos. I’m guessing Colorado really likes Montero for his Coors field power potential and Nova because he’s a ground ball guy. Both are perfect for Coors. Cashman will try to keep out the B’s but I think he’d have to relinquish Betances if he really wants to blow away the Rockies.
For Ubaldo, it could take Montero + Nova + Betances + Murphy.
Also early in the season Hughes was pitching like he was throwing with a 93mph fb. Only it was clocking in at 88-90mph. Which is why he was getting hit hard. If he was throwing 93 and getting hit hard I would be concerned a little. But not give up on him that easily. I mean Burnett throws 95 and gets hit hard.
Phil has lost a lot of time since 2007 to injuries. It’s hard to get the ‘feel’ for a breaking pitch when he’s had 2 healthy seasons in the 5.
Ivan Nova untouchable.
LOL
Rich in NJ……I heard the very same thing yesterday that Montero could be on the move and I thought of you immediately…..
Catcher Jeff Farnham is having his day for Charleston. 2-5 with a homer and a stolen base. charleston leads 5-3. but tying runs on in the 9th.
“For Ubaldo, it could take Montero + Nova + Betances + Murphy.”
You really think the Yankees are chumps.
Pat
If so, they’re morons.
Consider this.
The Royals wanted Montero + Nova + Betances + Nunez for Greinke.
I think if Cashman can get Jimenez for nearly the same package then he was right to wait and pass on Greinke.
Bret…..The names you mentioned are trageted players……Hughes throws and always has thrown a quick fastball
Bret The Hitman July 17th, 2011 at 4:54 pm
Thats all?, why not include Cano and the money for his contract too?
Love how they are lumping Nova with Manny and Dellin. Classic negotiating ploy to overvalue a lesser guy, portraying it as though he is better than he really is.
It is also kind of odd how willing they seemingly are to include Montero in deals. He should be the one untouchable, not the pitchers.
Good job by Hughes! One other thing I noticed, he seemd to move hitters off the plate (no I don’t think it was bad command!) more than he used to.
Huuuuughes!
Rich in NJ,
If Cash knows he must include a B with Montero, perhaps he can keep Nova out of the deal. That’d be nice. It would be Montero + Betances + Noesi + Murphy. That’s a worse package than the one the Royals wanted for Greinke.
Bret
If that happens, Cash either knows nothing, is trying to save his job, or is being told what to do by the suits.
And Charleston reliever Barreda scores the tying runs with 2 outs in the 9th.
Higashoka had driven in the 5th run with an 9th inning homer
Pat M. July 17th, 2011 at 4:57 pm
Bret…..The names you mentioned are trageted players……Hughes throws and always has thrown a quick fastbal
**********
The Bret The Hitman bashers on this board can throw me everything they’ve got and I still know that I can speculate with the best of ‘em. They can compare me to Chip all day long but I think we know I’m not Chip.
If they have determined that Jesus is not likely to be a catcher, then it makes sense to trade him. They probably don’t want to tie up the DH with him and don’t feel like waiting until Tex is gone to move him to 1B. Also, they might be afraid of him becoming even more exposed as a non-catcher as times goes on.
Yanks can always grab a bat. If they want Pujols/Fielder, they can sign him this winter. If they develop enough young pitching, they can always swap them for bats as well.
“If they have determined that Jesus is not likely to be a catcher, then it makes sense to trade him.”
For an impact bat in his 20s.
Ivan Nova:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIHAkqCls4A
I thought Hughes look aggressive and smart out there today. Granted, there was no Jose Bautista to deal with, but at least he had a varied repertoire of pitches to deal from today and get swings and misses.
I have no clue why Girardi pulls him after 6 and 80 pitches though, but that’s Girardi’s managing and has nothing to do with Hughes’ game today.
He was solid, he got K’s and he didn’t cough up the lead once the team put him squarely in front.
It was a very good start.
2 huge let downs by the USA D.
It would be Montero + Betances + Noesi + Murphy.
***************
I can live with that – hopefully Ty Wigginton comes back as well for added depth and insurance of A-Rod. But if at the end of the day, Nova and Baneulos are still with the team – can live w/ it. Would prefer to sub. cojo for Murphy and then add in a Heredia or Quintana for Wigginton.
Man – cannot wait (and I hope) to see how Mason Williams develops with the Yanks. Same with Santana in GCL.
In Eppler and Newman I trust. . . .
Perfect pass from Heather. Damn.
Rich is not happy lol. When I saw this on RAB I thought Rich is pulling his hair out right now
Wigginton hasn’t had an OPS+ > 100 since 2008.
“Rich is not happy lol. When I saw this on RAB I thought Rich is pulling his hair out right now”
Not the hair. Too vain.
SI_JonHeyman
rockies name price for ubaldo: montero, banuelos, betances & nova. nyy will do montero plus other pitchers (not those guys)
Sources close to the team say it will be Gardner, Swish and Grandy for Ubaldo. Apparently Ubaldo is so good the Yanks won’t even need an outfield.
SI_JonHeyman
rockies name price for ubaldo: montero, banuelos, betances & nova. nyy will do montero plus other pitchers (not those guys)
———-
LOL.
Um, yeah, I can see that happening. I wouldn’t do that for King Felix.
I wouldn’t give up those four guys for anyone… okay, Halladay or Felix maybe
I’m surprised they didn’t ask for Cano too
Rich in NJ July 17th, 2011 at 5:11 pm
Wigginton hasn’t had an OPS+ > 100 since 2008.
**********
OPS of 98 past two seasons – adds solid bench help.
Holy crap. What was that?
SI_JonHeyman
rockies name price for ubaldo: montero, banuelos, betances & nova. nyy will do montero plus other pitchers (not those guys)
********
Even for me that is a bit too much.
First round of negotiations – always put your best request first. So we now know what/how Yanks view Montero – as a trade chip – he has now been offered for Halladay, Lee, and Ubaldo – will that list grow in the coming months. . . .
SI_JonHeyman
rockies name price for ubaldo: montero, banuelos, betances & nova. nyy will do montero plus other pitchers (not those guys)
————————————————————————————————————————-
If this is true,they are insane.
I would not give them any one pitcher,except nova.
They wan’t all of them????
Tell them montero,nova & pick 2 more prospects.
No banuelos,betances,sanchez.
“OPS of 98 past two seasons – adds solid bench help.”
That’s the point though. If you want to add to the bench, fine. If you think it matters when you remove their only high level impact bat on a team with holes and soon to be holes at C, SS, maybe 3B and of the corner OF spots, it’s just nuts.
@ Rich lol
Can you believe they want all those guys?
F
Ledger_Yankees Star Ledger
Girardi said the heat, and the layoff, led do the early hook for Hughes. Tried to talk his way back in. No dice.
The dance has begun between the Rockies and the Yankees. They want everything, the Yankees don’t want to give up anything. There’s a middle ground that gets this deal done but it becomes a question of which GM has the cojones to make it.
Trading a cost controlled ace and having the prospects you acquire bomb out is ground for firing. Trading for a supposed ace and having the prospects you trade become great players in another uniform is also grounds for firing.
If I were a Montero fan, I’d be very concerned during the next 14 days. I’m not sure he’s still going to be here. Nova either.
That reported Rockies offer is just part of the game. The Yankees would never do that, but they are trying to get the Yankees to deal 2 of those 4 for Ubaldo.
“Can you believe they want all those guys?”
I can believe that the owners and Levine only care about one year at a time no matter how stupid that is. But money trumps everything.
Shocker. Poor USA gals. Good for Japan.
G. Love….Cashman has to keep Banuelos out of any deal
•One more note from Olney’s article: Given Jimenez’s inexpensive price tag through 2013, there would be very little financial risk for any team acquiring the right-hander, which is one reason why the Rockies’ asking price is so high.
•Speaking of that asking price, Rockies GM Dan O’Dowd tells Troy Renck of the Denver Post that the Rockies would have to be “absolutely overwhelmed” to move Jimenez. “It would have to be a Herschel Walkerdeal,” O’Dowd added, referring to the 1989 NFL trade that earned the nickname “The Great Train Robbery.”
•There seems to be a potentially game-changing pitcher connected in trade rumors to the Yankees every July, and this year it’s Jimenez, writes Mike Lupica of the New York Daily News.
USA let it get away… damn!
Just because Scott Boras, aka: Jon Heyman says The Yanks are willing to do Montero ++ for Jimenez does not make it so.
No problem with Girardi ending Hughes’ day early for the very reasons he mentioned plus one more…. the guy needed to end the game on a high note.
“So we now know what/how Yanks view Montero – as a trade chip – he has now been offered for Halladay, Lee, and Ubaldo – will that list grow in the coming months. . . .”
Yup. If a frontline starter is available, Montero is available.
And before people pin this on Levine or someone, the Yanks could have always tried to portray Montero as the untouchable one in negotiations and willing to offer other guys. Instead, it is the other way around. They are not even trying to protect him as an asset. It’s the other guys they are trying to protect.
I don’t think Montero is only viewed as a trade chip.
Seemed like Hughes was always the guy dangled in trade rumors for a couple of years.
90% of the rumors we hear tend to be little more than BS.
That’s true Levine is cut from the same cloth as The Boss. Win today and damn the future
I’m not sold on Jimenez being the “ace” that many others on this board do.
Ubaldo is not a rental. He’s not just a band aid. He is young and dirt cheap for 2 more years.
You could acquire Ubaldo and still have the money to go after a Cole Hamels for example.
“OPS of 98 past two seasons – adds solid bench help.”
That’s the point though. If you want to add to the bench, fine. If you think it matters when you remove their only high level impact bat on a team with holes and soon to be holes at C, SS, maybe 3B and of the corner OF spots, it’s just nuts.
***********
Offense you can find – I am not worried about. Pitching is much more difficult to find. Prioritizing a potential DH/1B/BUC with a projectable bat over established young pitching – sorry – but the Yanks have spoken – they view Montero as a trade chip for pitching. Plus – C and SS are not traditional offensive positions – especially in the pre-steroid era which is where we are heading. Gardner actually is a good defensive LF and his WAR is third or fourth best of LFers – and any power outage from him is made up by Curtis Granderson. As for RF – that is a matter for another day – possibly to fill through FA or another trade – but acquiring a RF will take much lesser talent than finding pitching that currently sits at 94 mph and could be going back to sitting at 96.
Again – in Eppler and Newman I trust.
Pat M.,
They won’t deal Banuelos and Montero in the same deal. Montero and Betances however….for Ubaldo? If the Rockies take them as the top 2 pieces in the deal I think the Yankees do it.
The next 2 weeks are going to be nuts.
Another Ace will shake loose.
I think we can get it done with montero,nova & 2 others.
I’d be very reluctant to part with banuelos or betances.
Giuseppe Franco July 17th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
I’m not sold on Jimenez being the “ace” that many others on this board do.
***********
Don’t need him to be – just need someone who can miss bats and approach Colon’s first half performance.
Hughes was only dangled for one guy – Santana. And it was upper management who was willing to offer him, not Cashman. No other reports of the Yankees offering Hughes in other deals. Other teams might have wanted him, but he was never rumored to go anywhere from the Yankees side.
Quite different with Montero. Heck, he WAS dealt, but Seattle backed out at the last minute.
Hey Yankees!! Remember the team that gave up so much to make the “Herschel Walker Deal” — Minnesota was the big loser in the long (and short) run.
A four-for-one deal like that would be nuts. Let’s remember we’re not talking about a guaranteed bona-fide ace. We’re talking about a talented, yet temperamental guy with a world of talent who pouted for a month because Tulowitzki got an extension and he didn’t.
Ubaldo is a lot like Haren in the sense that you can always dangle him at a later date if needed, with his cheap contact.
“Offense you can find – I am not worried about”
You can’t find in their prime impact bats in their 20s who don’t play 1B or DH without paying a ton.
“Pitching is much more difficult to find. ”
They have young pitching. Show some patience.
# Stoneburner July 17th, 2011 at 5:29 pm
Giuseppe Franco July 17th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
I’m not sold on Jimenez being the “ace” that many others on this board do.
***********
Don’t need him to be – just need someone who can miss bats and approach Colon’s first half performance.
———
They kinda do need him to be that kind of guy. Any trade for him will cost A LOT and he’s a long term option.
Can’t justify the cost and commitment if he can’t be a dominant guy.
Charleston scores 4 runs in the 11th with Jeff Farnham’s 3rd hit scoring Higashioka. 9-5 bottom of the 11th.
No score for SI yet.
Mikey O’Brien has allowed 1 hit through 4 innings, but has 4 walks. 7-0 lead with Kyle (The Rockingham Express) Roller hitting a 2 run homer. Roller, Murphy and Segedin with 2 hits each
@ Franco it seems like he is just a trade chip. Cisco is a waste of a roster space and Martin’s production has dipped but Jesus is still in AAA. I understand he’s not tearing it up but there isn’t even a thought about bringing him up
“Hey Yankees!! Remember the team that gave up so much to make the “Herschel Walker Deal” — Minnesota was the big loser in the long (and short) run.”
Which is exactly the kind of sucker that O’Dowd is looking for.
Forget the change now – reworking that curve has to be the #1 priority.
hughes looked good. thought he should come out for the 7th but he did pitch real good.
I don’t want to give up Banuelos and Betances.
I don’t have a problem with giving up Nova because Ubaldo would be an upgrade replacement, while holding onto the future (Betances and Banuelos). All of them can’t start in 2012/2013, so trading Nova works for me.
Jiminez walks almost 100 guys in the NL West
Be careful. In reality, we’d probably be getting the Toronto version of AJ Burnett at best.
Haren was the guy to get last year – strike throwing machine, struck guys out, young, cheap, AL success and an overall sustained period of dominance. No make-up issues, no funky mechanics like Jiminez has. A very safe buy-low ace that Cash missed the boat on.
Ok, can we put Jimenez to bed now? IF that report by Heyman is true, that’s not happening. I don’t blame Colorado – they have NO incentive to trade Jimenez. Plus, who really believes any of these guys – Heyman, Olney, etc…?
“Offense you can find – I am not worried about”
You can’t find in their prime impact bats in their 20s who don’t play 1B or DH without paying a ton.
**************
What is this fascination with the impact bat?? The emphasis should be on the impact pitcher – that is what wins in the postseason.
The game has changed – we can see it in our own LF – where once that position required 20-25 Homeruns and 80-90 rbis – the Yankees – the New York ^&*&* Yankees prefer defense and speed over power/impact bat. We are seeing that at catcher now – where Girardi – a former catcher – prefers a Martin (Brad Ausmus) type catcher over an impact bat.
Montero is not the sticking point in any deal – it is the pitchers going the other way that are giving me heart burn. Yanks have now signaled they are fine moving him for three pitchers so far. They are tipping their hand as to what they value the most (and really – what the last dynasty valued the most).
Rockies are not shopping Jimenez – they are looking for desperate suckers.
They kinda do need him to be that kind of guy. Any trade for him will cost A LOT and he’s a long term option.
Can’t justify the cost and commitment if he can’t be a dominant guy.
*********
Depends on what the deal is – sure first offers have been made – and I will admit a first offer of Montero AND Nova AND Banuelos AND Betances is not going to be done by the Yanks. But two of the four plus three other prospects – yeah – you are in different territory there where we are not asking him to be the ace.
“What is this fascination with the impact bat?? The emphasis should be on the impact pitcher – that is what wins in the postseason.”
Oh, you believe that canard. Then I understand your position. The problem is it’s not true. Balance wins. Otherwise the Braves of the ’90s would have won more than one WS.
The Yankees of the ’90s/’00 won in large part because they had offensive stars at C, SS, and CF.
Apart from Granderson, Jeter is in decline and Martin is an offensive zero.
Montero’s in the starting line-up for Scrantom
What a shame for the US girls.
Really tough way to lose.
Betsy….This more than just idol rumor BS, it’s being passed around the league as more than a 50-50 chance of happening….Heard this yesterday from a FO guy
Would rather go after Garza. Could probably get him while keeping Montero/Banuelos/Betances.
Something like Nova, Romine, Warren, and Laird.
If Jimenez, with his very reasonable contract, didn’t worry Colorado, theu wouldn’t consider trading him.
If the Yanks pay the price for Ubaldo, whiffing on Haren will look a lot worse.
The Florida Gator came through for the USA, but the Tar Heels gagged in the Penalty Kicks
Just sayin’
Montero is the top prospect in the system, so naturally, he’s going to be one of the top names mentioned in various trade rumors. Look around the league and you’ll see similar rumors regarding other teams’ top prospects.
It doesn’t necessarily mean the Yanks are actively shopping him.
It’s also not wise to believe everything Jon Heyman says.
Anyway, I’m out. All this trade nonsense works up an appetite.
Rich in NJ July 17th, 2011 at 5:42 pm
“What is this fascination with the impact bat?? The emphasis should be on the impact pitcher – that is what wins in the postseason.”
Oh, you believe that canard. Then I understand your position. The problem is it’s not true. Balance wins. Otherwise the Braves of the ’90s would have won more than one WS.
The Yankees of the ’90s/’00 won in large part because they had offensive stars at C, SS, and CF.
Apart from Granderson, Jeter is in decline and Martin is an offensive zero.
***********
The ’01-’08 teams won squat – nadda – zip.
Now the 96, 98-00 teams had an interesting mix: the ’96 and 98-99 teams had Girardi (a quality batting average/no power ) and a young Posada who had not come into his own entirely.
Now the Yanks had balance b/c they had a SS who was above average – but a 3b w/ Hayes and Brosius (except ’98) who were not your typical steroid era slugging thirdbasemen. Plus Bernie Williams was a defacto LF type production – where LF was a constant revolving door.
But on those teams – there was no generational “impact” bat that you speak of – no Juan Gonzales, Sammy Sosa, Manny Ramirez – or any of those Texas Rangers teams that had “regular” season impact bats.
The Yanks are evolving into Girardi’s image. Martin is the type of catcher he absolutely loves. They have not found the long term solution at SS – but that is not something to be solved soon – nor would any trade at this deadline either hamper or hinder that pursuit.
Montero is a trade chip – that much has now been confirmed – that is how Cashman, Eppler, and co. view him. I just hope they use him as that chip for the best possible package. We will see.
The kind of deal that O’Dowd is wanting is a deal that wrecks farm teams for 5 years. It’s taken 5 years to finally get it to the point where the Yanks have players teams want badly.
Pat M, then if that’s true, the Rockies need to come down from that demand – they know it’s not happening.
Rich, that’s my concern – they have no reason to be trading him if he’s healthy
If you’re Jesus at this point you want to get traded
Having impact pitchers is one thing, but, rather stupid to have them being supported with a Seattle type offense.
# Stoneburner July 17th, 2011 at 5:41 pm
They kinda do need him to be that kind of guy. Any trade for him will cost A LOT and he’s a long term option.
Can’t justify the cost and commitment if he can’t be a dominant guy.
*********
Depends on what the deal is – sure first offers have been made – and I will admit a first offer of Montero AND Nova AND Banuelos AND Betances is not going to be done by the Yanks. But two of the four plus three other prospects – yeah – you are in different territory there where we are not asking him to be the ace.
———-
He wouldn’t be the “ace”on the Yanks but the cost to get him would likely be a king’s ransom from Colorado’s perspective.
If the GM has to be “blown away” to deal him, any team acquiring him would certainly hope he cost to get him was justifiable.
Betsy July 17th, 2011 at 5:49 pm
Pat M, then if that’s true, the Rockies need to come down from that demand – they know it’s not happening.
************
It is a negotiation.
The only dummies that ever said yes to the first offer was the Texas Rangers owner when he signed Alex Rodriguez and then Hank and company again in 2007 (i guess you can also add Levine w/ Soriano) – on second thought – maybe we are in trouble – but I think Cashman and company are running negotiations at least at first. Barring Colon’s leg completely falling off, Hughes curling up into a ball in the corner, and Freddy Garcia tipping all of his pitches to every team from now on out – Yanks will not become desperate. High stakes poker/negotiations – let’s see where it leads.
Hughes improved.
Showed me what I was hoping to see.
More swings and misses.
Better efficiency.
Quality start.
Build on it next time out.
He wouldn’t be the “ace”on the Yanks but the cost to get him would likely be a king’s ransom from Colorado’s perspective.
If the GM has to be “blown away” to deal him, any team acquiring him would certainly hope he cost to get him was justifiable.
************
Have to see what the deal is. This is all in the art of negotiations – of course the Colorado GM is going to say “blow away” – just as Cashman and the Yankees have masterfully built up the perception of certain Yankees as trade chips and his stance on certain players. We will see who blinks first.
if Jimenez is in their sites then make it a one stop shop and get Wiggy also
“rather stupid to have them being supported with a Seattle type offense.”
Yankees will never allow themselves to have a Seattle type offense. Finding bats is much easier than finding frontline starting pitching. We might not have the positional advantages we had, but who cares if the end product is among the league leaders in runs?
Boston has done fine over the past half decade with negative production from Catcher and SS, no?
If your search if for young bats at premium positions, then you are right. But Montero himself is no guarantee to be that either and/or stay at C.
So what happens if the Yankees trade for him?
They are not going to extend his contract, at least during this season. They didn’t do it for Jeter, they won’t do it for him.
So does he continue pouting as it’s being reported he’s doing in Colorado?
The Rockies opened with a demand for Montero AND Betances AND Banuelos AND Nova?
So basically they want to acquire an entire pitching rotation and a potential MVP who will rake in Coors Field.
I’m starting to think that this will cost Montero + Betances + Nova + Murphy + toss-in (Noesi?).
At the very worst, Cashman should be able to salvage Banuelos.
I’d do Montero and Nova + for U-Jim in a NY minute.
Where do I sign ?
GreenBeret7 July 17th, 2011 at 5:51 pm
Having impact pitchers is one thing, but, rather stupid to have them being supported with a Seattle type offense.
*************
LOL – this 2011 Yankees offense has been many things – but the Seattle type offense it is not – heck they do not even play in a Seattle type offensive ballpark – so it’s moot from the start.
I agree that balance is the key overall, but quality starting pitching is the element you MUST have. Jimenez has a chance to be special for a long time, but at the price tag that’s been suggested he’s have to be Doc Halladay or Felix Hernandez.
The reason to trade him for Colorado is to add two guys to the MLB pitching staff if not rotation AND a potential long term solution at 1B AND a guy to develop
I just don’t see a reason for the Yankees to give up all that for an upgrade in the rotation.
Romine, Noesi/Nova, Warren/Phelps, maybe a down the line is all I’d do for this guy
Betsy,
You keep saying “if he’s healthy”. First off, he’s pitching and pitching well right now. Second, do you honestly think the Yankees would trade their top young guys without giving Ubaldo a physical/get his medicals? They’re not morons. The guy will be picked over with a fine tooth comb before they consummate any deal. The teams are given a chance to exchange medicals and I believe ask for physicals before they make a deal.
Again, he’s healthy and pitching well right now. He’s 27. He’s not Liriano who everyone is waiting for to fall apart. He’s not Bedard.
This is a healthy cost controlled top of the rotation starter.
The old adage. Some of the best deals you make are the ones you don’t make.
In the case of Jimenez, he’s not a difference maker. Not worth all the talent that the Rockies will want. Cashman is only exercising due dilligence.
Giuseppe Franco July 17th, 2011 at 5:16 pm
SI_JonHeyman
rockies name price for ubaldo: montero, banuelos, betances & nova. nyy will do montero plus other pitchers (not those guys)
———-
LOL.
Um, yeah, I can see that happening. I wouldn’t do that for King Felix.
_____________
It will be very interesting what other GM contacts the Yankees if those names are being bandied about…Perhaps Kershaw, or another ace…Someone who is a difference maker in play-offs.
Probably not Felix (who knows), but definitely the sharks should come sniffing around.
Seriously, if those names were in play, I’d call Tampa about Price.
Brian,
I don’t think he’ll pout in NY since his commercial opportunities skyrocket if he’s considered an co-Ace of the Yankees. He’ll make more money here doing ads than he is in Colorado.
I think we are all in agreement that there is no way Montero AND Betances AND Banuelos AND Nova are ALL going for Jiminez.
The question is which of those going would be acceptable – and whether Cashman can negotiate with Colorado about other names – that piece of the puzzle will come into focus over the next two weeks.
108-
U-Jim is not a difference maker ?
I’d make one of those rolls eyes emoticons if I could.
I wouldn’t trade “the farm” for Ubaldo. Felix Hernandez, maybe.
Forget about hacking into the cell phones of politicians and movie stars. I want the cell phone of Billy Eppler and Cashman.
G Love – you are delusion if you think the Yankees really do their due diligence well with respect to the health of potential trade and free agents acquisitions. Witness Nick Johnson, Soriano, Feliciano, et al.
I’d be more comfortable if the trade was negotiated down to something like what was offered for Lee last summer…sweeten the pot a bit to make up for Ubaldos long term cheap deal tho
I also think we can all take solace in that Cashman has a breaking point and knows when it is too much as we saw w/ Cliff Lee and Dan Haren last year.
Heck–before I trade the farm for Ubaldo, I’d even call Boston about Jon Lester…they need to restock pitching…Tampa and David Price would be interesting….If we are even considering trading 3 top 50 prospects and Nova, we should basically inquire about every top ace in baseball….just to see where the conversations lead.
Stoneburner July 17th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
GreenBeret7 July 17th, 2011 at 5:51 pm
Having impact pitchers is one thing, but, rather stupid to have them being supported with a Seattle type offense.
*************
LOL – this 2011 Yankees offense has been many things – but the Seattle type offense it is not – heck they do not even play in a Seattle type offensive ballpark – so it’s moot from the start.
————————————————————————————————————————-
Jeter, Posada, Swisher will all be gone within 2-3 years or with greatly diminished skills, along with Rodriguez, Swisher…Granderson could leave and will be pushing 34. Line-up doesn’t look so good, does it? Even if Jiminez is what he’s being advertized, he can walk and leave NY holding the bag.
heyman_sux July 17th, 2011 at 6:09 pm
I’d be more comfortable if the trade was negotiated down to something like what was offered for Lee last summer…sweeten the pot a bit to make up for Ubaldos long term cheap deal tho
*************
You bring up something very interesting. The offer for Lee last year was Montero, Adams, and McAllister.
Yanks balked at Montero, Nova, and Nunez.
Could it be somewhere in between that – this year’s Nova (Noesi) PLUS Montero PLUS this year’s Adams (Cojo) PLUS the sweetner – a killer B or Nova. I just do not know – will reserve judgment IF a deal goes down and see what the players are.
GreenBeret7 July 17th, 2011 at 5:49 pm
The kind of deal that O’Dowd is wanting is a deal that wrecks farm teams for 5 years. It’s ta
___
Exactly..you know if Cashman does this deal, he is leaving after the season and just wants to screw Randy Levine.
Not happening.
GreenBeret7 July 17th, 2011 at 6:11 pm
Stoneburner July 17th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
GreenBeret7 July 17th, 2011 at 5:51 pm
Having impact pitchers is one thing, but, rather stupid to have them being supported with a Seattle type offense.
*************
LOL – this 2011 Yankees offense has been many things – but the Seattle type offense it is not – heck they do not even play in a Seattle type offensive ballpark – so it’s moot from the start.
————————————————————————————————————————-
Jeter, Posada, Swisher will all be gone within 2-3 years or with greatly diminished skills, along with Rodriguez, Swisher…Granderson could leave and will be pushing 34. Line-up doesn’t look so good, does it? Even if Jiminez is what he’s being advertized, he can walk and leave NY holding the bag.
****************
This all assumes the greatest assumption of all time perhaps – that the Yankees will do NOTHING else on other fronts to improve the team w/ Jeter’s 15 mil contract, Posada’s 13 million contract, Swisher’s 10 million contract – to say nothing of Mo’s 15 million contract and A.J.’s 16.5 million coming off after 2013 . . .is too big of a leap. BUT to trace this downfall where the Yankees do not replenish the team with other additions b/c Jesus Montero was traded in the summer of 2011 – no – I am not giving any one prospect that much power and hold over a franchise – and I am glad the Yankees are not too.
A deal as proposed hurts NY because of where they draft every year. That’s why having this much talent has taken so long to develop. It started in ’04 with Hughes and then Kennedy/Chamberlain. You sign 4 pitcher like that and hope you get one difference maker. Same with the offense. That’s why Cashman has been collecting catchers and then middle infielders. Next will be a flurry of outfielders to pair up with guys like Heathcott and Williams. Out of all of those players, you pray that 3 or 4 of them a big help.
GLove, then you tell me why the Rockies are going to trade him. He’s very good, he’s in his prime and he’s got a good contract.
Stoneburner,
I think they’d do the deal you bring up. From a Yankee perspective, that’s probably fair. However, I’ll admit I’m looking at this deal in a vacuum, comparing the talent of Lee and Ubaldo. Obviously it won’t be quite as simple since the Rockies don’t have the motivation to trade that Seattle did…Seattle was going nowhere fast. The Rockies will likely continue to contend.
But like what’s been implied on this blog – this is the initial asking price. If a deal gets done, it’s not likely to be all four of those guys
The best thing about today, aside from winning of course, is that we started to get Phil Hughes back.
Nice trade Cash.
If Montero can be a decent catcher in the majors, then I would not trade him at all, except maybe for Felix or someone nearly as good (ace). If they think he can’t really catch, then he’s a DH/1B, both of which spots might not be open very much in the near future (Alex/Teixeira). Then he’s tradeable.
This all assumes the greatest assumption of all time perhaps – that the Yankees will do NOTHING else on other fronts to improve the team w/ Jeter’s 15 mil contract, Posada’s 13 million contract, Swisher’s 10 million contract – to say nothing of Mo’s 15 million contract and A.J.’s 16.5 million coming off after 2013 . . .is too big of a leap. BUT to trace this downfall where the Yankees do not replenish the team with other additions b/c Jesus Montero was traded in the summer of 2011 – no – I am not giving any one prospect that much power and hold over a franchise – and I am glad the Yankees are not too.
————————————————————————————————————————-
Who in the Hell would they trade after sending 4-5 for one pitcher? It would end up being a swap of bodies. That always works. Unless NY finishes in 3rd or 4th for about 4-5 years, they’ll keep drafting in the last 3 spots every year, or worse, in the 2nd or 3rd round. I don’t just look at one year.
GreenBeret7 July 17th, 2011 at 6:19 pm
A deal as proposed hurts NY because of where they draft every year.
**************
Where the Yanks draft has not hindered the Yanks from building their current system – the thing that hindered the most was GMS trading everyone. Look at the way the current proposed deal was constructed – only one was from the U.S. Amateur draft – Betances – and he was from the 8th round. Nova, Montero, and Banuelos were all international signees – Nova and Montero were IFA and Banuelos was signed from his team in Mexico.
What a heartbreaker for the American girls. Congrats to Japan.
As for Phil, he looked better. Beat the team that pounded him last season. Only the one walk, and again, no homeruns. Some movement on the FB and some serious swings and misses. Phil’s almost back. Just needs to work on his breaking pitches. I keed, I keed.
“No Bautista, no Wells” –doesn’t Wells play on another team?
Jacksquat – fair point, definitely something to consider in a potential trade.
I think it’s ironic the Yankees find themselves in a similar position as they did nearly 15 years ago. In Russ Martin and Jesus, they have a modern version of Girardi/Posada.
If that’s how you look at it, I think we know who Girardi would prefer gets the most reps as catcher. Does that effect the trade? Idk just throwing it out there
GreenBeret7 July 17th, 2011 at 6:23 pm
This all assumes the greatest assumption of all time perhaps – that the Yankees will do NOTHING else on other fronts to improve the team w/ Jeter’s 15 mil contract, Posada’s 13 million contract, Swisher’s 10 million contract – to say nothing of Mo’s 15 million contract and A.J.’s 16.5 million coming off after 2013 . . .is too big of a leap. BUT to trace this downfall where the Yankees do not replenish the team with other additions b/c Jesus Montero was traded in the summer of 2011 – no – I am not giving any one prospect that much power and hold over a franchise – and I am glad the Yankees are not too.
————————————————————————————————————————-
Who in the Hell would they trade after sending 4-5 for one pitcher? It would end up being a swap of bodies. That always works. Unless NY finishes in 3rd or 4th for about 4-5 years, they’ll keep drafting in the last 3 spots every year, or worse, in the 2nd or 3rd round. I don’t just look at one year.
**********
First read my previous post – the farm is compiled of a mixture of IFAs and U.S. draftees – U.S. draft is not the only way to build a farm system – if anything – Montero, Nova, and Banuelos were not drafted – they were signed
Second – hello Free Agency – another way to get quality offense
Third – no one is saying to agree to the deal as currently constructed – let the negotiations play out and see what the final deal is
Give them cervelli,nova,warren,phelps & call it a day.
As for Ubaldo, sounds like some serious interest.
On the one hand, the Rox are asking for too much (understable), but once the cat is out of the bag don’t you think Ubaldo will be dealt? Especially if there’s an underlying reason that’s not obvious outside their FO.
Montero/Nova/+ probably gets it done. It would sad to see Montero go, but you would be getting an ace-like pitcher back.
# ron July 17th, 2011 at 6:27 pm
Give them cervelli,nova,warren,phelps & call it a day.
———————————-
that might get them Ryan Dempster
m-
“Montero/Nova/+ probably gets it done.”
I see you read my post.
m-
Would you make that trade ?
MTU July 17th, 2011 at 6:20 pm
The best thing about today, aside from winning of course, is that we started to get Phil Hughes back.
Nice trade Cash.
———————————–
Well played MTU
heyman_sux July 17th, 2011 at 6:25 pm
Jacksquat – fair point, definitely something to consider in a potential trade.
I think it’s ironic the Yankees find themselves in a similar position as they did nearly 15 years ago. In Russ Martin and Jesus, they have a modern version of Girardi/Posada.
If that’s how you look at it, I think we know who Girardi would prefer gets the most reps as catcher. Does that effect the trade? Idk just throwing it out there
—
I am worried that Girardi having been more of a defensive catcher, that’s what he wants in a catcher, and he will be biased against Montero, and favor the Martin/Cervelli types.
MTU,
I could live with it, I could live without it.
I’m fine with whatever the Yankees choose to do.
I’m just waiting for them to choose to designate a certain reliever.
I don’t think Montero/Nova/+ gets it done. I think they know they won’t get their initial request, but I don’t think it happens for less than Montero + Betances(or)Benuelos + Nova + 2 other low A/B types. Ubaldo’s cheap contract is a big chip.
Warren started for scranton, 1-1 in the 2nd. Russo lead off the game with a homer, Laird with a double. Montero is 0-1. Warren through 2 innings, 2 hits, 1 run, 0 walks, 2 strikeouts
m July 17th, 2011 at 6:25 pm
“No Bautista, no Wells” –doesn’t Wells play on another team?
___
Yes (Angels), but they were tough on Phil last year and would have been the test this year…In other words, we can’t just say he beat a team that killed him last year–different team,
*Banuelos
Aldo-
My take is that one of Hughes/Colon has to be seen as a reliable #2/3
starter going forward.
For the future I prefer it to be Phil but that’s a preference.
In practical terms, for this season alone, it may not matter.
Baring that, the Yankees have 2 choices in my eyes:
They can punt on the season.
They can make a trade for that type of arm.
The simplest and most economical thing would be for one of our guys to
step up.
I wonder if this talk between the yankees & Colorado bring another team into action. Maybe one that is interested in our prospects and who may jump off the fence and deal with us. No team in particular… *cough*KERSHAW*cough*
Montero is a big time hitting prospect. Nova is the major league ready pitcher with an AL East pedigree. Not much of a fly pitcher as some have noted. But if they ask for Gardner, that’s the dealbreaker.
m-
thanks. just curious.
Second – hello Free Agency – another way to get quality offense
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Perfect. “Hello” for $20 mil a year contracts.
I’m also well aware that all players aren’t draftees.
just heard you won’t see Montero in a NYY uniform
Might as well call Detroit and offer those 4 for Justin Verlander….
Stoneburner July 17th, 2011 at 6:23 pm
GreenBeret7 July 17th, 2011 at 6:19 pm
A deal as proposed hurts NY because of where they draft every year.
**************
Where the Yanks draft has not hindered the Yanks from building their current system – the thing that hindered the most was GMS trading everyone. Look at the way the current proposed deal was constructed – only one was from the U.S. Amateur draft – Betances – and he was from the 8th round. Nova, Montero, and Banuelos were all international signees – Nova and Montero were IFA and Banuelos was signed from his team in Mexico.
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and how many years has it taken to rebuild the farm system? 12-15 years?
Bojo-
Your opinion.
Who’s better Verlander or U-Jim ?
If Levine is really running this team, I’m giving up baseball.
Wimps never want to win with their own.
Eff ‘em.
GreenBeret7 July 17th, 2011 at 6:38 pm
Second – hello Free Agency – another way to get quality offense
————————————————————————————————————————-
Perfect. “Hello” for $20 mil a year contracts.
I’m also well aware that all players aren’t draftees.
**************
Not all are 20 million contracts – nor is the Yankees’ offense entirely built that way anymore
Not all offensive upgrades cost an ubber prospect (see Swisher/ChiSox Deal)
I am not sure why you did not mention IFAs and only concentrated on U.S. amateur draft and draft position (can still get big time prospects where Yanks draft – see Betances)
In fact, put a package together of Montero, Nova, Noesi, and Nunez and call for the following names:
Jon Lester
David Price
Justin Verlander
Dan Haren
Jered Weaver
Gio Gonzales
See if it leads to any negotiations….
JAP-
True story.
Someone showed Levine a picture of a hole in the ground.
They then showed him a picture of a gluteus maximus.
After that they asked him to tell the difference.
You know what ? He couldn’t.
Felix Hernadez + 4-5 year contract extension
for
Montero + Hughes(or)Nova + Betances(or)Banuelos + Romine(or)Sanchez (Montero “insurance”) + one other minor leaguer not listed here + facial hair exemption (;))
Would you do it? Might it be enough for Seattle? What would you offer?
MTU July 17th, 2011 at 6:42 pm
Bojo-
Your opinion.
Who’s better Verlander or U-Jim ?
____
Verlander–future HOFer, and #1 Play-off ACE
If Cashman trades Montero for Ubaldo that will be a real stupid trade.
If he puts anyone else of any significance then either he is a complete moron or the front office is clearly forgeting all common sense.
Jimenez has had one half season of dominance and he has been mediocre aside from the 1H of 2010- sounds kind of like Hughes…
I will hate Cashman if he makes that trade, as it will set NY back for years.
*Hernandez
say good bye to Montero
“Dan Haren
Jered Weaver
Gio Gonzales”
Think any of those 3 could be had. Not easily, but they are not absolutely untouchable like the other guys on that list.
Bojo-
That’s what I thought you’d say. So those 4 above aren’t getting his jock.
They might not even get U-Jim’s and Verlander is superior.
Watching Hughes start today. I wish he would have more of a power curve but maybe they will continue to work on that. He said he tried to speed up his arm with the knucklecurve to throw it faster so maybe step 1 is changing the grip and then they will work on speeding it up. On the whole the curve looks better. Hitters weren’t taking very good swings at it unlike his last curve where they often looked like they were waiting for it.
Joeman-
Where’s he going ?
any team that is in the playoff hunt won’t be trading SP’s
Tampa Yanks lead 14-4 in the 8th inning, Segedin is 4-5 with 3 runs scored, a homer and 2 RBI. Murphy in 4-5 with 4 RBI singles.
Betsy,
Why did Arizona trade Haren? Why did Toronto trade Hallyday, the best pitcher they ever developed who loved playing there. Why do any of these guys get traded.
It usually, I think, revolves around money. I think a GM sees the Yankees system with young high end cost controlled talent and they want to bet on them and save their owner money while getting out from under the talent that can blow out an arm and be worth nothing to the organization in a matter of starts.
If the Rockies also think Ubaldo is unhappy with the deal he made and they have interest in renegotiating it, then that’s the kind of thing that kicks trades off. Who wants a player who is going to feel cheated over the next few years.
The Yankees can take him, tell him to go out and dominate and we’ll reward you like we did CC, Cano, etc.
The Yankees won’t deal their top 4 young guys for Ubaldo in the same deal. This isn’t Felix, who they would do that for in my opinion.
But I think 2 of the 4 the Rockies leaked to Heyman they’d want will get this deal done and Colorado will move on with young cost controlled high impact talent and be happy about it.
If anything, this deal ever happening is an indictment of what the Yankees think of their chances for developing top of the rotation starters and a bat like Montero’s.
If they thought they were all sure things, they wouldn’t consider dealing any of them ever and just let them progress here, but I think they want a sure thing.
I’d hate to see Montero go in a deal, but if you get a young top of the rotation starter for him, it’s the cost of doing business.
The Yankees clearly have no interest in promoting Montero despite needing him. They’re keeping him down for a reason and I think it’s to delay his clock and make sure he’s not exposed at this level lowering his value. I think they want to deal him for this kind of player.
# MTU July 17th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
Joeman-
Where’s he going ?
———————–
don’t know where but he’s going
Trading Montero doesn’t set them back. They have no room for him and he might not even stay at C.
Trading Montero AND Betances AND Nova AND Banuelos, etc. sets them back. But we all know Cash isn’t doing that.
If they can keep the Killer Bs while getting Ubaldo, it is a win.
I thought they did change his grip on the curve. No longer a “spiked” grip…?
MTU July 17th, 2011 at 6:49 pm
Bojo-
That’s what I thought you’d say. So those 4 above aren’t getting his jock.
They might not even get U-Jim’s and Verlander is superior.
___
For Verlander I would give up the shop…Montero, Manny, Bets, Nova, and Nunez.
To me, he starts ahead of Cc in play-offs and gets us a ring.
betances dropped because of arm issues in high school. NYYs take a lot of chances because of where they draft. They have little choice. Nobody was forgetting about international FAs. That could dry up too with international drafting. It’s coming.
I thought they did change his grip on the curve. No longer a “spiked” grip…?
–
They did.
MTU–In my mind, I rate Verlander ahead of Felix, because:
1. He is a threat to throw a perfect game every time out
2. He didn’t throw as many innings before 25 years old (when male body reaches maturity) and therefore might be a safer health risk
3. He is still good for 5-7 more years.
I’d definitely would pursue him if Cashman is even considering moving his chips for UJ
# 4time July 17th, 2011 at 6:52 pm
Trading Montero doesn’t set them back. They have no room for him and he might not even stay at C.
Trading Montero AND Betances AND Nova AND Banuelos, etc. sets them back. But we all know Cash isn’t doing that.
If they can keep the Killer Bs while getting Ubaldo, it is a win.
———————
they will have to give up one & Nova + Montero
Tampa yanks box score
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....a_tbyafa_1
G.Love-
“The Yankees clearly have no interest in promoting Montero despite needing him. They’re keeping him down for a reason and I think it’s to delay his clock and make sure he’s not exposed at this level lowering his value. I think they want to deal him for this kind of player.”
I believe he is being shopped.
Dan O’Dowd is floating Jimenez out there to see how much interest he draws and who might be willing to overpay. It always starts with the Yankees and works its way down through teams with the best financial means and good farm talent.
Similar to what Cashman’s friend Josh Towers did at the last winter meetings to gauge what interest teams had in Justin Upton.
The next 14 days will tell the real story.
Staten Island is getting smacked around 7-1 in the 6th.
I wonder what Dombrowski would do if presented with that trade…He knows he doesn’t have enough now to get to play-offs, and it gives him a chance to re-tool…BUT it may be last year there for him.
If he doesn’t get to play-offs, he might be gone…but if he re-tooled, ownership might approve of it and give him more time…
Interesting….
Bojo-
I hear ya’. Verlander is not available though.
Jimenez’s mechanics scare me. Plus he walks 100 guys a year.
Not a big Montero fan, but get someone better.
Tampa Yanks lead 14-4 in the 8th inning, Segedin is 4-5 with 3 runs scored, a homer and 2 RBI. Murphy in 4-5 with 4 RBI singles.
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who cares they’ll just trade them anyway because everybody else’s players are so much better
New thread ==>
Maybe they can keep ManBan and Betances if they can convince COL that Jesus is the solution for their soon-to-be glaring hole at first base with Helton retiring
MTU July 17th, 2011 at 6:59 pm
Bojo-
I hear ya’. Verlander is not available though.
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I’ll put a horse’s head in Dombrowski’s bed…then we’ll see…
MTU July 17th, 2011 at 6:36 pm
The simplest and most economical thing would be for one of our guys to
step up.
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I think it was Rich who first questioned why Ubaldo would be available if he’s so cost-effective AND that good. My sentiments exactly.
Any two of Montero, Betances, Banuelos, Nova is too much, I think.
is it possible they went sour on Montero when they expected him to make the team out of SP and he didn’t… kept him in the minors to keep his trade value where it is
GreenBeret7 July 17th, 2011 at 6:54 pm
betances dropped because of arm issues in high school. NYYs take a lot of chances because of where they draft. They have little choice. Nobody was forgetting about international FAs. That could dry up too with international drafting. It’s coming.
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Betances dropped b/c of signability issues – he was set to go to powerhouse Vanderbilt – same school that produced Price a year later. Joba fell and was drafted in ’06 (same draft as Betances) b/c of issues with his arm and mechanics. Sure Betances may have drawn concerns b/c of his height – but he dropped mainly b/c of issues of how much it would take to sign him away from Vandy – and it did cost a lot – Yanks topped their own 2005 8th record of 800,000 to Austin Jackson by giving Betances 1 million to sign.
BoJo July 17th, 2011 at 7:01 pm
MTU July 17th, 2011 at 6:59 pm
Bojo-
I hear ya’. Verlander is not available though.
___
I’ll put a horse’s head in Dombrowski’s bed…then we’ll see…
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Just put a few of the horses’ asses on this board in the bed instead.
Pitching with 10 days rest and a Toronto lineup without Bautista is probably not a great indicator of future performance.
He probably caught Blue Jay hitters by surprise with the new CB, that won’t happen his next start which will be on 5 days rest. Of course, his next start is against the weak hitting A’s and even if they know what is coming they still can not hit.