The value of Ubaldo Jimenez
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jul 17, 2011 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Outside of wild speculation about who they might be interested in acquiring, the Yankees now have their first legitimate deadline trade rumor: Ubaldo Jimenez.
George King reported Friday that the Yankees were looking at the Rockies starter, and now everyone seems to have jumped into the story. Peter Gammons says the Rockies believe they have a 10 percent chance of trading their ace. The Rockies general manager says, “We would have to be absolutely overwhelmed” to make such a deal. Jon Heyman says the Rockies have asked the Yankees for arguably their four most valuable trade chips. Not one of those four. All four.
That’s the difficulty of obtaining Jimenez: The Rockies don’t have to trade him because he’s still just 27 years old and signed to a team-friendly deal through 2014. One great young player won’t do it because Jimenez himself is a great young player who’s already more proven than any prospect. Dumping salary isn’t an overwhelming factor because the contract makes sense.
Jesus Montero, Dellin Betances and Manny Banuelos are the big three among Yankees trade chips. At least one would almost certainly have to be included in a deal for Jimenez, and the Rockies apparently want Ivan Nova too. Just making small talk today, I said that I’d be willing to include one of the big three, plus Nova, plus a next-level prospect or two (Austin Romine, Adam Warren, etc.). Anything more would be tough to lose. Anything less probably wouldn’t come close. And I’m not even sure I’d take that package if I were the Rockies.
Jimenez had a “bad” second half last year and still had a 2.2 strikeouts per walk, a .223 opponents batting average and almost 6.1 innings per start after the break. He’s good and he’s young and he’s fairly cheap, which means he’s going to be very expensive on the trade market.
—
One other Yankees-Rockies connection comes from Heyman who says the two teams have also discussed Ty Wigginton as a trade candidate who might fill Alex Rodriguez’s shoes for a while and then fall into a utility role.
The rumor finally goes big time on the Chad network.
Montero got screwed in Spring Training. They wanted him to focus on his catching and worried about his hitting later. So he didn’t have a good ST bat wise. And was sent down because of that. At least that’s how I saw it.
That package that Heyman tweated is crazy and Colorado just shooting for the moon…..they know that’s not happening. I agree with those who would rather deal pitcher for pitcher if possible.
Id rather do something like Betancea, Nova, Romine than to include Montero……howver Im sure Montero is a must for the Rockies. If the price dropped to Montero + Nova as the headliners then I bet Cashman does it……would I approve? Id have very mixed feelings. Ubaldo could be the difference in a title for the Yankees this year and beyond……but then again so coukd Montero. Its a risk…..I don’t know how Id feel about it at this point.
Chad-
Betances+Vazquez+Nova/Noesi+Romine+Warren/Phelps/Mitchell 5 for Ubaldo Jimenez +Ty Wiggington and his 4M contract.
Who should the Yankees bring up as reliever, barring a trade, when Mitre is put on waivers?
Montero hit .250 in ST. His glove obviously was a detriment, so he had to hit to earn his roster spot. He didn’t.
Same reason he hasn’t been called up now. A guy who catches the ball as poorly as he does can’t be OPSing in the high .700s in AAA. With how well the pitchers work with Martin, disrupting that for a guy who isn’t even hitting in AAA is crazy.
Chad-Oh i forgot, I want Rockies rookie lefthaned reliever Matt Reynolds in that 5 for 2, now 3 deal!!
We Deal:
Montero – Nova – Romine – Warren
Our 2012-13 rotation top six:
Sabathia
Ubaldo
Hughes
Burnett
Banuelos
Betances
WCYF
Whose your catcher in 2012-13-Austin Romine? Other?
Red Lobster July 17th, 2011 at 9:35 pm
Montero hit .250 in ST. His glove obviously was a detriment, so he had to hit to earn his roster spot. He didn’t.
Same reason he hasn’t been called up now. A guy who catches the ball as poorly as he does can’t be OPSing in the high .700s in AAA. With how well the pitchers work with Martin, disrupting that for a guy who isn’t even hitting in AAA is crazy.
————————————-
But like i said. I thought the hitting was secondary. Since they knew that wasn’t his problem. I don’t know how he did behind the plate in ST. But if he hit .400 I still don’t think they would have kept him up here.
WCYF,
That would potentially be a very young and very good rotation with loads of depth.
If the pricetag drops to Montero/Nova +less guys then that’s what Cashman will have to weigh…..that potential rotation vs Montero potential as a hitter.
It would really sting to see Montero go to Coors and become a yearly .300/30/100 guy…..
Between Russell Martin, Cervelli and picking up a good defensive veteran if need be I am not worried. And you have Sanchez who may be better than all of them working his way up through the minors.
Montero is much more important to the Yankees future than a starting pitcher is.
Times have changed. Premium bats are less readily available than premium arms. Particularly ones that (just may) have a chance to adequately play in the middle of the diamond.
I wouldn’t even consider trading Montero for Jimenez. How anyone could look at the current complexion of this team and thing about trading offense just boggles my mind.
The entire left side of the Yankees infield is in a precipitous decline. There are currently three elite level players (Cano, Gardner, and Granderson) in this organization. Montero has the potential to be more valuable than all of them. And Lord only knows how valuable he could become if Tex really is becoming a .240 hitter at the age of 30.
# West Coast Yankee Fan July 17th, 2011 at 9:38 pm
We Deal:
Montero – Nova – Romine – Warren
Our 2012-13 rotation top six:
Sabathia
Ubaldo
Hughes
Burnett
Banuelos
Betances
———————–
No way the Yankees get UJ without dealing Manny or Dellin
Even the Mets wouldn’t trade their top 2 catching prospects. And why would the Rockies even WANT 2 players for the same position.
Montero hit higher than any catcher in camp this spring.
It’s an interesting discussion that comes down to this basic question. What do you value more, pitching or hitting. To my way of thinking, pitching wins every time.
If you dealt Romine and Montero in the same package, then you better just hope that JR Murphy pans out. He’s progressing nicely, but 2 top tier catchers. I’d just hope to retain Montero at all costs. Yanks need a player with Montero’s ability as the core get older.
Beckett has a 1-hit shutout through 5 innings. Looking strong and healthy
In October, do you want to match that with Hughes? Burnett? Or the guy who started the NL All-star game in 2010?
All of those that are trading 4 and 5 players for Jiminez will be whining for years if he tanks in NY.
“To my way of thinking, pitching wins every time.”
____________________________________
I just can’t agree.
You can catch lightning in a bottle and get quality innings from a Dustin Moseley or a Darrell Rasner or even a Freddy Garcia.
When does that ever happen on the offensive side of the ball? A player that can come up and make a positive impact with the bat over a three week span irrespective of his track record?
The Yankees are loaded with pitching throughout the minors.
Furthermore, its been the offense that has consistently failed to perform in the postseason at a level commensurate with its ability. Think about Colby Lewis, Kenny Rogers, and Paul Byrd, and picture those guys being able to neutralize the Yankees offense back in the 90s heydays. Kind of difficult.
Murphy is no catcher. He’s a better third baseman than he is at wearing shin guards
I don’t think/guess that the Yanks would trade Montero for Jimenez. Not with the lineup issues. Nova and Betances (a ST of the present and one of the future), plus pieces (Ty Wigginton?) are more likely, I think.
Like I said earlier, if the Yanks trade Montero, with the aging of their lineup, it would make me wonder if they know or suspect something about Montero that is concerning to them.
The Yanks have pitching prospects to trade. Hitters, not so much.
Now that Dowd has stalled my final offer is Betances+Romine+Noesi+Vazquez+ one of Phelps/Warren/ Mitchell for Jimenez+Wiggington+lefty reliever Matt Reynolds.
GB- Which reliever would you bring up from AAA, barring the above trade doesn’t go thru LOL, so that the Yankee can dump Mitre?
Why do you think the Giants got to the dance and won it all last year? It wasn’t their fearsome hitting? Of course a team needs balance, no one is suggesting an either or scenario. But come October-November IMO pitching wins.
Ubaldo could be a difference maker this year…..and it’s not a rental like the Lee deal was. If Cashman would trade Montero for 3 months of Lee then you have to think he would for 3 cheap years of a 27 year old with that kind of talent.
Do I agree with it? I’m not sure…..it depends on a lot of things including how they really value Montero and what kind of hitter they think he will be…..whether they truly believe he can catch, what they think of Romine, Sanchez Murphey etc…..what they feel their chances at either Kemp or Upton are in the coming years….etc. A lot to consider.
We have plenty of catching depth without Montero. There were reports that Romine has surpassed Montero in the Yankees’ minds. Plus you have Murphy who is raking in the minors. Gary Sanchez is supposed to have a beastly bat and better D than Montero as well.
Oh, and did people forget our current starting catcher is a 27 yr old all-star who will finish the year with 20 HRs with gold glove defense?
And why are we even assuming Montero is a catcher? The only one who seems to think he is a C is Cashman, and most of that is probably to keep his value up.
If they deal Montero, then Romine stays.
yanks 27 – post of the page sir.
Murphy’s a hell of alot better defensively and good at calling a game than you give him credit for Beret.
I would much rather keep Montero out of a deal and trade pitcher for pitcher…..but I’m sure Colorado would demand Montero for any discussions to proceed.
Why are you assuming Martin will hit 20 home runs?
NYY fan in NH July 17th, 2011 at 9:51 pm
The core is already old on it’s way out. We are in a changing of the guard process, bad timing to trade your best prospects. You no longer have Jeter, Posada, Petitte, Mo and Arod in their primes. The hit to the farm would take years to rebuild it, coupled that with an old MlB roster, and we are facing at least 5 to 6 years with no contending team or very flawed ones
Trader, there are no relievers in the upper minors until Norton is healthy, and if he can stay healthy. Whiyley is in Trenton, but, he’s no where near ready. Kontos may be a nice guy, but, I wouldn’t trust him.
Martin has falling off the cliff since his hot start.
There were reports that Romine has surpassed Montero in the Yankees’ minds. Plus you have Murphy who is raking in the minors. Gary Sanchez is supposed to have a beastly bat and better D than Montero as well.
—————————————
How close are those guys to being major league ready?
# GreenBeret7 July 17th, 2011 at 9:49 pm
Montero hit higher than any catcher in camp this spring.
—————————————————————
he’s in the minors and he’s going to get traded
NYY fan in NH July 17th, 2011 at 9:59 pm
Murphy’s a hell of alot better defensively and good at calling a game than you give him credit for Beret.
————————————————————————————————————————-
When did you see him catch?
Cashman won’t destroy the farm system to add Ubaldo…..any deal for a guy like that is going to hurt a bit but there is no way he would deal his top 3 guys + Nova for anybody.
Tell me again just how good of a catcher Murphy is.
http://www.baseball-reference......rphy029joh
Unlike the Lee “almost” trade this is one trade I hope falls thru. Too much talent for Ubaldo Jimenez. Get me a star young lefty and I might regain interest.
# Carlos July 17th, 2011 at 10:00 pm
Why are you assuming Martin will hit 20 home runs?
———————————————————-
got back from Vegas last week, don’t go much in the summer but I did notice the place must turn into Disney World this time of year, lots & lots of very young children all over…
blake July 17th, 2011 at 10:04 pm
Any trade that involves two or more of the blue chip prospects is a mayor hit. If this was 2001 i wouldn’t mind, but it isn’t. I rather sacrifice this season than the next 8
There is no comparison at all between the NY Yankees and the SF Giants.
The Giants won their FIRST World Series in over 50 seasons last year. They were WILLING and it made sense for them to invest the 5-6 seasons it takes to develop good young starting pitchers.
The Yankees have no such luxury and no such track record.
But isn’t Cash always talking about relying on young arms because they can’t buy or trade all the time
Luis,
As I said….it depends on a lot of things. The Yanks wouldn’t make this deal without an eye towards the future IMO….they just don’t operate totally in the present anymore. Ubaldo would form a nice duo with CC potentially for at least 2012 and 2013 as well……a lot depends on how they really value Montero and how they feel they’ll be able to address the offense if he’s gone…..
blake July 17th, 2011 at 10:04 pm
Cashman won’t destroy the farm system to add Ubaldo…..any deal for a guy like that is going to hurt a bit but there is no way he would deal his top 3 guys + Nova for anybody.
===============
This rings true to me. If the Rockies really want to trade Ubaldo, then they are going to have to lower their demands. My guess is that the Rockies don’t want to move Jimenez, and are simply testing the waters to see what they might be able to get in return.
Makes me feel better that the Sox arent hitting Niemann either.
yanks 27 July 17th, 2011 at 9:57 pm
We have plenty of catching depth without Montero. There were reports that Romine has surpassed Montero in the Yankees’ minds. Plus you have Murphy who is raking in the minors. Gary Sanchez is supposed to have a beastly bat and better D than Montero as well.
Oh, and did people forget our current starting catcher is a 27 yr old all-star who will finish the year with 20 HRs with gold glove defense?
And why are we even assuming Montero is a catcher? The only one who seems to think he is a C is Cashman, and most of that is probably to keep his value up.
=======
If Montero isn’t a catcher, then why would anybody, especially an NL team, be interested in him?
blake July 17th, 2011 at 10:15 pm
Makes me feel better that the Sox arent hitting Niemann either.
Another good pitcher in this division that we have to face isn’t a good thing.
Blake,
Good points, i hope you are right
Ghost,
yea….they have to know that the Yankees aren’t doing a deal like that. I doubt a deal gets done…..If Cashman would include even 3 of those players then the Rockies probably do it…..but I don’t think he will….nor do I think he should.
Blake,
The Yankees already admitted they will part with Montero but none of Betances/Banuelos/Nova.
They have conceded Montero to the Rockies to keep themselves in the sweepstakes. It seems like they are trying to limit the amount of pitching they could lose in this deal in saying that Montero is available but the B’s and Nova are “untouchables”.
They are trying to ease the sting.
They’re trying to leverage the package on Montero.
Heard Jon Heyman say the Yanks are willing to part with Montero.
Yankees have yet to comment.
eh….I’m much more worried about Matt Moore than Jeff Niemann. The Rays have pitching out the wazoo…..they should trade Shields now before he regresses….because he’s going to….he’s not near as good as he’s pitched this year.
Bret The Hitman July 17th, 2011 at 10:19 pm
====================
The deal won’t happen without sending at least two pitchers back to the Rockies, probably including Nova and Betances or Banuelos, in addition to Montero.
I believe they would trade Montero for Ubaldo….as I said if they were willing to trade him for a rental of a 32 year old then you have to assume that they would for a 27 year old with a really team friendly deal. I don’t know if I agree with them for doing it…..but I think they would part with Montero for him……I do not think they would include either of Banuelos or Betances in the same deal though. If the price drops to Montero+ Nova then I think it may get done…..but I kinda doubt it will.
Giving up one of our top prospects for Jimenez would be a great deal for the Yankees. Giving up a potential all-star quality player for a proven one (albeit a player with some concerns) is a lopsided trade in our favor. Giving up two top prospects for Jimenez is pretty fair imo. Not saying I would make the trade, but I think that a trade of Montero/Betances for Jimenez is pretty even. Obviously it could end up being a great deal for the Rockies if both players reach their potential, but considering their status as prospects I think its pretty close as far as value. The problem is that the Rockies aren’t looking for a fair trade. They simply don’t need to trade him now, and they are going to need to get a ridiculous offer if they want to trade him. The Yankees aren’t desperate for pitching (even though they could use a solid #2) so I don’t see it happening.
blake,
It would be nuts for the Yanks to send away Nova (in addition to the other blue chip prospects). Nova already has demonstrated that he can pitch in the Bronx, is committed to improving himself, and has a bulldog mentality.
I bet the front office is feeding Heyman information about where they stand in negotiations. There’s no harm in aiming high like the Rockies have in their demands for 4 A prospects or as the Yankees have by basically saying that Montero nearly alone is worth an ace.
From the Yankees perspective, separating the pitching prospects from their offer really advertises Montero. Saying that he is so good that no other pitchers of significance will be included is a way to posture and draw the attention of other GM’s who might value him.
The fact that the Rockies demands have been publicly announced means they are trying to generate more inquiries/offers on their merchandise as well.
The Rockies could find a better package then what the Yanks offer.
But Cashman might find a GM who will trade a #2 for Montero + none of the B’s or Nova.
We’ll see how it shakes out.
Do we want to win this year or not?
We have plenty of bats to win. But Sabathia and a crap shoot is not a good bet against Lester and Beckett or Weaver and Haren or Halladay and Lee.
It’s that simple.
Ghostwriter July 17th, 2011 at 10:22 pm
Bret The Hitman July 17th, 2011 at 10:19 pm
====================
The deal won’t happen without sending at least two pitchers back to the Rockies, probably including Nova and Betances or Banuelos, in addition to Montero.
*********
I agree but of course the Yankees can’t start their in response to the Rockies demands. They can’t skip right to their final offer until they get a better feel of how much talent they can retain while still pulling off a successful deal for Jimenez.
With any luck, this game goes 19 innings and burns both bullpens for a week.
You trade Montero and 1 of the B’s and some lower prospects and offer cash for Jimenez and wiggington.You put whatever cash you have to so colorado feels good about it.
If you must add another guy besides montero and 1 of the B’s if has to be middle tier guys and cash.If so then do it.
Remember he pitches in the NL and i NEVER have liked guys who pitch there then come to the AL east it is way different.Even back when he was going great in 2010 he got hit by some AL east teams.Proceed slow on him.I would stay in it but i would not go more then 2 of the big 5 guys.
IMO, Betances would be hard to let go. Manny B is a lefty that is still learning, but tons of upside. To let Montero and one of these guys, then you add Nova. I just couldn’t see doing it.
Dylan July 17th, 2011 at 10:25 pm
————————————————
Agreed.
Bronx Jeers July 17th, 2011 at 10:32 pm
Dylan July 17th, 2011 at 10:25 pm
————————————————
Agreed.
============
Ditto.
GreenBeret7 July 17th, 2011 at 10:06 pm
Tell me again just how good of a catcher Murphy is.
http://www.baseball-reference&.....rphy029joh
*********
Sorry – I defer to Mark Newman – who believes in Murphy as a catcher according to his interview at nomaas.
Ghost,
I would trade Nova as a piece to get a guy like Ubaldo….it would depend on who else was involved but I would part with him in the right deal. Not saying I don’t like him because I do but I think the Yankees have a few other guys with higher ceilings…..I like Noesi better than him long term I think…
Why are we worried about bats? Prince Fielder and Matt Kemp are there for the taking.
Posada + Marte come off the books (17 million)
Then Mo + Swisher (25 million)
With Jimenez behind CC, you dump Burnett’s contract and add it to the 17 million. Then you’re at 32 million after 2011 and 25 million after 2012.
For all we know, the Yankees have decided that AROD either plays 3b, rests or hits the DL. Either Jeter plays ss or he hits the DL. They don’t have to leave open DH for either of those guys.
If they want Prince Fielder in the middle of the lineup because they’re worried about Tex morphing into Giambi, they will feed the meat of the order. They will do it.
If they are worried about AROD’s ability to hit 40 HR again or hold up from age 35-42, they will bring in Matt Kemp for another middle of the order.
The key trick here is to keep cost of rotation down while remaining competitive.
There will be plenty of offense available for money alone.
The same can’t be said for pitchers like Ubaldo Jimenez. There is nothing like him in sight.
you can’t dump Burnett….nobody is going to take that contract.
GB7, would you include Dellin OR Manny in a trade Ubaldo? If so, which one would you prefer to deal?
The same can’t be said for pitchers like Ubaldo Jimenez. There is nothing like him in sight.
——-
Hamels and Weaver are free agents the same year Kemp is.
I’m resigned to the fact that if Ubaldo Jimenez ever pitches in pinstripes, Montero + 1 of Betances or Banuelos will be Rockies.
Right now, I’m actually more worried about salvaging Ivan Nova in that deal. I want to keep him and I hope he stays. I really feel like when Cash forfeits Montero + (Betances, for example), Nova should be left out of the deal with Noesi in the his place instead. If they keep Nova they can definitely move AJ Burnett’s contract after 2011. Only 2 more years will be left on it, and plenty of teams who need pitching won’t be able to add pitchers since the free agent class coming up is so weak.
Nobody is going to take on 30 million dollars for AJ
No way would I include more than one of Montero, betances or Banuelos in that trade. I don’t trust Jiminez to deal with NY that well.
Why would anyone want a mediocre pitcher due $33 million over two years?
Especially since as he gets older and further declines mediocre is prob the best case scenario.
You would have to eat at least half of AJ’s contract for anyone to even consider trading for him.
I think Montero + Nova will be Cashman’s limit
LGY,
The difference is, you win with Ubaldo now. I’m not sure the Yankees are willing to wait for Weaver and Hamels. The Phillies could sign Hamels and Weaver will get ace money even though his career stats show he’s not really an ace but more of a #2.
Prince and Kemp?
It’s unquestionable.
Those are sluggers who can dominate for years and help hedge against the potential collapse of Tex and AROD.
Blake,
AJ’s contract is definitely movable. 2 years and a weak free agent class. An NL team would take him.
Farnsey gets out of it
Montero + Nova doesn’t get you squat.
HE PITCHES IN THE NL WEST!! WHICH MEANS TONS OF GAMES VS SF LA AND SD which all 3 have a suck offense.
Put him in the AL EAST and you got a totally different guy.No more pitcher no more SD LA SF weak offense.
Beware.
Red Sox traded for a 26yr old named Josh Beckett.
They didn’t get him cheap, but they still only had to give 2 premium prospects (Hanley and Anibal.)
Montero and Nova is definitely on par and probably better than the package that it took to get Beckett (considering nobody knew quite how good Hanley would become – he wasn’t as highly rated as Montero has been)
jeter2711 July 17th, 2011 at 10:50 pm
HE PITCHES IN THE NL WEST!! WHICH MEANS TONS OF GAMES VS SF LA AND SD which all 3 have a suck offense.
Put him in the AL EAST and you got a totally different guy.No more pitcher no more SD LA SF weak offense.
Beware.
**********
So you are saying you would pass on Kershaw and Cain and etc. . .
Bret,
I love the optimism but AJs contract isn’t movable at all unless you want to accept nothing in return and eat a ton of the money on it…..the Yankees may opt to do that at some point but they won’t ever be able to shed much of that contract
We can’t have it both ways. I hope the
Yankees make the trade. We gave have no way of knowing what the front office is thinking. We’re gonna have to trust that the Yankees will make the right decision.
Last year when ubaldo was pitching out of his mind Everyone on this blog was wishing that we had him. Now’s our chance. We can’t have our cake and eat it too.
Hanley plays a tough position. The Rockies will have to groom Montero as a 1b because they don’t think he is a catcher. That’s what they said. Helton is nearing retirement.
Bret
I’m with you on trading for Ubaldo.
Just pointing out the free agent pitchers in the next couple years.
My dream in 2013 is CC-Ubaldo-Hamels.
Dave, not counting Helton, NY would need to take back Colorado’s ugliest contract if money is their issue. I think that they might be afraid of his arbitration coming soon enough. One thing O’Dowd isn’t getting is a Hershel Walker deal.
Lgy,
What you giving for Ubaldo?
Sorry, 10% chance of trading their ace means he’s not going anywhere. Yankee fans are getting in a tizzy over something that’s not going to happen – and why they Rockies would do it anyway is beyond me.
Hey didn’t Ulbaldo pitch vs. The Yanks at The Stadium just a few weeks ago ???? How did that go folks ???/
Great point BD. I’m sure Boston wishes they had Hanley playing short right now but they did win a ws with Beckett so mission accomplished.
Benny Blanco July 17th, 2011 at 10:52 pm
We can’t have it both ways. I hope the
Yankees make the trade. We gave have no way of knowing what the front office is thinking. We’re gonna have to trust that the Yankees will make the right decision.
Last year when ubaldo was pitching out of his mind Everyone on this blog was wishing that we had him. Now’s our chance. We can’t have our cake and eat it too.
********
Interesting point – and everyone was also saying the same things about Dan Haren – how he lost it – was having a bad year – why would Arizona be looking to move a still reasonable contract (when compared to what is being given on the open market) – people were up in arms at just the thought of Joba being offered for Dan Haren – let alone Joba plus Nova.
I’ve lost faith in the Yankees properly using Montero. It’s one of the reasons I would trade him for Ubaldo even though I strongly prefer to deal the Bs.
Sadly, they seem to have fallen in love with Russell Martin.
Pat M. July 17th, 2011 at 10:56 pm
Hey didn’t Ulbaldo pitch vs. The Yanks at The Stadium just a few weeks ago ???? How did that go folks ???
********
Stop it – just stop it – you are making too much sense and too many good points
AJ Burnett pitches in the AL East in the biggest pressure cooker in MLB.
He could finish this season with 15 wins, nearly 200 K’s (on pace for 178), a 1.25 WHIP and a .222 BAA.
What does that translate into for an NL team?
And he’s only owed #2 money for 2 more years?
He’s movable.
I want to keep Nova.
LGY, I simply don’t understand why it’s SO important for Montero to be called up – except that Yankee fans are impatient and want to see him regardless of whether the Yankees think he’s ready. Obviously the Yankees feel Martin’s catching prowess outweights his lack of offensive contributions and personally I agree with them.
Last year when ubaldo was pitching out of his mind Everyone on this blog was wishing that we had him. Now’s our chance. We can’t have our cake and eat it too.
——————————————–
Never understood that phrase. If I have cake, you best believe I’m eatin it. What else you supposed to do with cake?
LGY July 17th, 2011 at 10:56 pm
I’ve lost faith in the Yankees properly using Montero. It’s one of the reasons I would trade him for Ubaldo even though I strongly prefer to deal the Bs.
Sadly, they seem to have fallen in love with Russell Martin.
**********
How have they not properly used him? He is still 21 – they have Butch down in AAA looking after him – and then Pena and Girardi evaluating him during ST – two veteran catchers – they would know if he is ready.
IF anyone has not properly used him – it is the fans who have built these gigantic expectation for this kid – comparing him to generational and Mantle.
Why would the Rockies be so willing to trade Ubaldo in the first place?
Not sure I understand that.
I also don’t see how anyone could believe any starting pitcher, save Felix/Josh Johnson/someone of that caliber, to be more important to this team’s future than a piece like Montero, in light of what’s going on with the offense.
The deterioration of this offense since 2009 has been serious.
The state of pitching in the organization, on the other hand, is on the upswing.
Come on betsy!!! Don’t be a joykill!!
. 10%? In the famous words of Jim Carrey from dumb and dumber “so you’re saying there’s still a
Chance?”
Betsy,
That 10% figure was reported by Gammons. Of course the Rockies want that weasel running around saying the Yankees chances are slim.
This is a guy who nearly broke down in tears when the Yankees acquired Jeff Weaver from the Tigers.
He nearly had a stroke when they picked up Vazquez from the Expos.
C’mon now.
“Sorry, 10% chance of trading their ace means he’s not going anywhere.”
————-
let’s say there was a 50% chance of him being traded. what benefit would there be for Colorado’s GM to say that?
if there is one thing we should have learned, it’s not to trust everything you hear during trade season.
“This is a guy who nearly broke down in tears when the Yankees acquired Jeff Weaver from the Tigers.
He nearly had a stroke when they picked up Vazquez from the Expos.”
————-
add when the Yankees signed AJ Burnett.
You’d think Gammons would have learned that not every Yankee acquisition works out quite as well as hoped.
but it would be nice if Gammons would cut the crap and just come out and say he’s obsessed with the Red Sox.
G-C July 17th, 2011 at 11:00 pm
Why would the Rockies be so willing to trade Ubaldo in the first place?
Not sure I understand that.
**********
Billy Beane does it all the time – see a Hudson – see a Mulder – trade one chip for four or five – especially if you see that your season is not going anywhere and you have multiple holes.
Blake
I wish they’d keep Montero, but somehow it seems the Bs are more highly valued.
I would like to trade Manny+Dellin+lower level filler. However it seems the Yanks want to include Jesus.
Therefore, I would be happy with Montero+Nova+
I would bite on Montero+Manny/Dellin+
Pat M. July 17th, 2011 at 10:56 pm
Hey didn’t Ulbaldo pitch vs. The Yanks at The Stadium just a few weeks ago ???? How did that go folks ???/
————————————————————————————————————————-
And imagine what it will be like when he hits a rough patch like last year or early this year and one of those high ends are doing what they’ve been billed as. Look at the way Hughes was treated and how Rodriguez was treated for years. I don’t think Jiminez would hold up nearly as well. His best place would be in Dallas or Southern California where the Latin flavor is greater.
“Why would the Rockies be so willing to trade Ubaldo in the first place?”
———–
FWIW, I don’t think they will. They’re not desperate. They have a good young foundation and Ubaldo is signed for 3 more seasons.
But if they want to talk, you talk.
Ubaldo Jimenez is a good pitcher. I’d, begrudgingly, trade Montero for him.
Not sure I’d go much higher than that. Maybe one of Montero, ManBam, or Dellin, plus a few other pieces. I wouldn’t mortgage the farm for him, however.
Benny, what are you talking about? It’s just how I feel, but if people want to assume he’s going to be traded, it’s fine with me. I still have serious reservations about Jimenez if indeed the Rockies are willing to trade him – but I don’t think they are. When you ask for the sun, the moon and the stars, you’re really just hoping some sucker takes the bait.
BD, so you don’t believe anything you hear, so that means Jimenez is definitely on the block? I don’t buy it. If it happens, it happens…….but I just think this is all a bunch of hot air stirred up by the winds of the trade deadline.
LGY July 17th, 2011 at 10:56 pm
Unfortunately that seems to be the case
I would bite on Montero + Manny/Dellin too but I’m keeping Nova and pawning off Noesi if that’s the case.
I like having Burnett in this rotation.
I’m in no rush to move him out of here.
He takes the ball every fifth day and contrary to the popular nonsense jargon, rarely blows up.
AJ Burnett is one of the most incorrectly assessed players in the major leagues by fans and the media alike. The fact is that he’s RARELY exceptional, but almost always gives the Yankees a chance to win the games he pitches in.
He’s a (albeit very unorthodox) very effective middle of the rotation innings muncher.
They don’t want to talk, that’s obvious. IF the report is true that they asked for Montero and 2 B’s, that’s not what I call showing an interest in dealing.
They would trade him if the package they got in return could make them a better overall team for the future….same reason ant team trades a good player…either that or because they can’t afford them.
How have they not properly used him? He is still 21 –they have Butch down in AAA looking after him –and then Pena and Girardi evaluating him during ST –two veteran catchers –they would know if he is ready.
——
Martin has been one of the worst players in baseball since May 1st.
Posada has been maybe the worst DH in the AL.
Cervelli sucks.
That Montero is not on this team is astonishing.
All you need to know about Peter Gammons is that he once was a respected journalist who pioneered the field with his Diamond Notes
Then John Henry and Larry Luchino came into Yawkey way after failed attempts at the Dodgers and other franchises and he turned into a total stooge
This is a man who has already casted a HOF vote for Sox SS prospect Jose Iglesias
Betsy,
huh?
so if i dont believe what i hear, it means i believe the opposite?
i meant what i said. just because a GM says he isn’t planning on trading a player during trade season doesn’t mean the player won’t be traded.
that’s all.
West Coast Yankee Fan July 17th, 2011 at 10:28 pm
Do we want to win this year or not?
————————————–
Isn’t that the same mentality that put the farm in bad shape for a number of yrs?
LGY July 17th, 2011 at 11:04 pm
How have they not properly used him? He is still 21 –they have Butch down in AAA looking after him –and then Pena and Girardi evaluating him during ST –two veteran catchers –they would know if he is ready.
——
Martin has been one of the worst players in baseball since May 1st.
Posada has been maybe the worst DH in the AL.
Cervelli sucks.
That Montero is not on this team is astonishing.
***********
I am still waiting for the part where you provide your credentials over the resumes of Tony Pena and Joe Girardi – along w/ Butch – and the other internal player evaluators.
Bret, don’t “c’mon now” me, lol. You seem to buy into every rumor ever spread and this is like your favorite time of year – you propose trades that have no chance of happening. I’m not a Gammons hater – plus I happen to agree with him. I do not think the Rockies have any intention of dealing this guy.
# LGY July 17th, 2011 at 11:04 pm
How have they not properly used him? He is still 21 –they have Butch down in AAA looking after him –and then Pena and Girardi evaluating him during ST –two veteran catchers –they would know if he is ready.
——
Martin has been one of the worst players in baseball since May 1st.
Posada has been maybe the worst DH in the AL.
Cervelli sucks.
That Montero is not on this team is astonishing.
——————————–
Exactly given what we have seen over the past few months he hasn’t even been up for a cup of coffee.
Ok, by that token every word out of a GM is a lie. We’ll just have to disagree. I don’t think Jimenez is going anywhere…………
Betsy,
You’re not agreeing with Peter Gammons…you’re agreeing with information purposely FED to Peter Gammons by the Rockies front office.
Think about that for a second…
To me, this just seems like the Rockies are taking a flyer on his worth. I don’t think he’ll be moved.
This offseason Jimenez will demand a trade and he’ll be moved….
I am still waiting for the part where you provide your credentials over the resumes of Tony Pena and Joe Girardi –along w/ Butch –and the other internal player evaluators.
——–
Should I start listing the # of mistakes the Yankee organization has made or are you really going to go with the lame “The Yankees are the professionals” bs?
Lgy,
I Wouldn’t do that……but not sure if Yanks ultimately would or not. Usually when there is this much talk about a trade involving the Yankees it doesn’t happen
Bret, don’t tell me what I’m agreeing to or not – don’t pull that crap with me. If you think he’s going to be dealt, fine, but I disagree…
His best place would be in Dallas or Southern California where the Latin flavor is greater.
——–
Really???
I watch Montero play. He’s a nice player, but in no way would he keep me from picking up a very good arm. It seems you guys think Montero is the savior of this team. I don’t see it.
G-C,
They could easily keep AJ and sign Prince Fielder. But if they want to move AJ, they can do it.
My point is Prince Fielder will out hit Montero.
Plus keeping him from the Sox hurts them. They don’t like to keep older players (Manny, Nomar) past their peak production years. They usually cut ties a year too early rather than a year too late.
I say give ‘em Ortiz for 4 more years.
He’s gonna have the numbers for it.
Against All Odds July 17th, 2011 at 11:06 pm
West Coast Yankee Fan July 17th, 2011 at 10:28 pm
Do we want to win this year or not?
————————————–
Isn’t that the same mentality that put the farm in bad shape for a number of yrs?
**************
No that was George making stupid decisions.
Phil Hughes any second now . . . wait for it
Montero & nova + a few scrubs or else cashman should hang up the phone.
We still would have sanchez to replace montero as a great catching prospect,romine up immediately.
Extend the players to include wiggington.
His numbers are anemic so far and judging by what he looked during the last 2 weeks of Spring Training is what leads me to make these comments……Guys who are ready generally are hitting .380 with 20 dingers at this stage of the AAA season
–
Montero hit .300 the last 2 weeks of Spring, and come on .380 with 20 HRs??? Who is that? Look at Matt Holliday, Colby Rasmus, Hanley Ramirez. Guys with TOOLS that might not have been aces in the minor leagues but came up and had an impact. Look at Justin Upton, Carlos Gonzalez.
LGY July 17th, 2011 at 11:08 pm
I am still waiting for the part where you provide your credentials over the resumes of Tony Pena and Joe Girardi –along w/ Butch –and the other internal player evaluators.
——–
Should I start listing the # of mistakes the Yankee organization has made or are you really going to go with the lame “The Yankees are the professionals” bs?
**********
No I am just going with actual professionals who have caught at the position and who have managers of the years awards – oh and a world series ring – internet gms are the bs – and what is happened with the minor leagues over the past six years has evolved into something that is getting out of control.
We are taking this Montero thing to a whole new life – for crying out loud – how the heck do you even know for sure whether he is 21 years old!!! They even had to reduce his bonus out of the blue after they signed him.
They offered him now around 3 times that we are aware of
He did not even make the team out of ST – this after spending an entire year at AAA.
There are multiple pings from other teams who do not believe he is a catcher
So yeah – I will go with the guys with credentials on their resumes
His best place would be in Dallas or Southern California where the Latin flavor is greater.
————————————————————————————————–
No doubt Texas and Cal. have the highest % of Spanish speakers in the country but Ubaldo’s Dominican and nowhere is the connection greater to his country than in New York.
Montero hit .300 the last 2 weeks of Spring, and come on .380 with 20 HRs??? Who is that?
*********
Hosmer could have probably done that
Betsy,
I think the Rockies WILL deal Jimenez to the Yankees for several reasons. Here are 3 main ones.
1)They’ve hit a performance wall as a team with him fronting their staff. Therefore they probably have to reconfigure their roster in order to get over the hump. He is their greatest trade asset.
2)They’ve moved big names recently – Matt Holliday. O’Dowd is not shy about that.
3)They probably love Montero’s swing for Coors Field.
You can also consider the fact that the Rockies have good young pitchers on the way but not much offense to build around. Montero takes care of that.
What are your reasons for speculating that the Rockies will not move Ubaldo Jimenez?
Bronx Jeers July 17th, 2011 at 11:16 pm
His best place would be in Dallas or Southern California where the Latin flavor is greater.
————————————————————————————————–
No doubt Texas and Cal. have the highest % of Spanish speakers in the country but Ubaldo’s Dominican and nowhere is the connection greater to his country than in New York.
*********
Banuelos – like Fernando V – would be a huge hit in those markets hailing from Mexico.
Bret, I just see no reason for them to trade him. He’s very good, he’s in his prime and he has a good contract. I’d be shocked if he’s dealt – unless he’s really hurt- in which case, caveat emptor (let the buyer beware).
Stoneburner,
Why even come to a message board like this if you’re simply willing to give credence to everything the Yankee organization does because “they are the professionals?”
They offered Montero for Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay. That hardly constitutes “offering him around.”
Just because Joe Girardi and Tony Pena caught in the big leagues hardly makes them worthy of receiving total deference in every catching related decision made by the organization. The way the Yankees have handed the position this year has been a joke. They’ve put up with Cervelli’s incompetent bat and even more incompetent defense as a reserve and now even more laughably are willing to have Martin swing the bat like Ramiro Pena without showing any willingness to reduce his role. Russell Martin has been the worst player in baseball since May 1st. That’s a fact. That the organization seems completely and utterly willing to recognize it and implement a potential (partial) solution to the problem speaks volumes about how far the front office and management on this team still have to go in putting out the best possible product on the field.
Moreover, don’t count me as someone who is willing to give deference to Joe Girardi on just about anything.
He managed the Yankees out of the postseason last year and damn near did the same thing in 2009 with his mind-boggling bullpen moves. Anyone remember Alfredo Aceves for David Robertson? If the Yankees somehow managed to lose that ALCS that probably goes down as the most boneheaded, inexplicable managerial decision in history. That the 2009 Yankees were good enough to win in spite of some of those decisions speaks to their rightful placement as one of the greatest handful of Yankee teams in the last forty years.
“Guys with TOOLS that might not have been aces in the minor leagues but came up and had an impact. Look at Justin Upton, Carlos Gonzalez.”
_________________________________________
Jerk,
Excellent point. Pointing to Montero’s minor league slash line this year is so incredibly shortsighted. It displays a real lack of knowledge about the typical progression of prospects, particularly exceptionally tooled or skilled ones.
Judging by Lohud you would think that every major league star must have had a season in the minors in which he hit .400/.500/.600 and made no errors. Heck, Derek Jeter just barely OPSed about .800 in his final year at AAA and went on to be a nearly 1.000 OPS player just a couple of years later.
Banuelos – like Fernando V – would be a huge hit in those markets hailing from Mexico.
—————————————————————————————————-
Definitely but there are Mexican people everywhere nowadays.
Honestly I don’t think these guys care much about what city they’re playing in in regards to whether or not there’s a large population of people from their home country or not.
Home is where you collect the biggest check.
I swear, how limited are some of you?
The offer Heyman (again, Heyman) reported was for the 4 top trade chips in the Yankee system.
It’s a first offer.
I don’t think any big trade ever gets accepted on the first offer.
There’s 2 weeks to go before the trade deadline. Have you ever watched how a trade happens during this time period? Teams ask for the sun, stars and moon and end up taking something very different as the deadline draws near.
Again, some of you are so obtuse to sit here and keep regurgitating the Heyman leak today as the only offer Colorado will accept. Life and business deals aren’t always so black and white.
This is a game. You saw it last year with Lee. Seattle wanted Smoak more than Montero and used the Yankees and Montero to get Smoak for Lee.
Acting like the Heyman tidbit is gospel is just silly. If you can’t creatively see a possibility that the Yankees may make a trade that costs less than that little piece of info Heyman slipped out then you should stop commenting on the trade.
# SCRANTONYANKEES July 17th, 2011 at 11:12 pm
I watch Montero play. He’s a nice player, but in no way would he keep me from picking up a very good arm. It seems you guys think Montero is the savior of this team. I don’t see it.
———————————-
Savior no…impact bat going forward yes
I don’t think this trade is going to take place. Colorado is looking for a desperate team to offer the moon for Ubaldo. The Yanks have 6 starters, so they’re not desperate. I think it’s more likely that Ubaldo gets traded to some team other than the Yanks.
In terms of value, I think Ubaldo is a cut below Cliff Lee or Johann Santana, when they got traded. Ubaldo has the potential to be a #1 starter. Lee and Santana had the potential to be the best pitcher in baseball.
“legitimate deadline trade rumor”
That strikes me as an oxymoron.
Hosmer could have probably done that
–
He had 3 HRs this year in 26 games before he got called up. Thats 16-18 in a full minor league season. Guys don’t hit .380 with 20 HRs in the minor leagues because they get called up way before that point. Montero should have been called up when he was hitting .400 for the first 3 weeks of the season.
Girardi made some bad moves in the ’09 postseason but he also made some good, controversial moves too.
Going with a 3-man rotation when Pettitte hadn’t pitched on short rest in 6 years…pairing Molina with Burnett, who dominated all his game 2 starts
Anyway, I’m rooting for this Rays/Red Sox game to go 20 innings
G-C July 17th, 2011 at 11:21 pm
Stoneburner,
Why even come to a message board like this if you’re simply willing to give credence to everything the Yankee organization does because “they are the professionals?”
*************
Ahhhh b/c I think the Yankees are my favorite team since childhood and they have a pretty good track record over the past sixteen seasons of doing a good job as well – plus I think Joe Girardi has credentials – and a impressive resume – starting with his college at Northwestern to winning the WS in 09 and coming within 2 games of returning to the WS last year.
Seriously – do you really think you know better than them? And I am not talking hindsight BS arguments – b/c every team has decisions that turn out bad – we all do in life – but you take their winning percentage – these guys are PROFESSIONALS – more than you, more than me, more than anyone on this board.
And to say Russel Martin has been the worst player in BASEBALL since May 1 – please let me introduce you to Chone Figgins:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/.....ne-figgins
And that – is a fact.
Gee GLove, your first sentence really is going to make people want to respond to you. We must be too dumb to know any better.
Stoneburner,
If you want to appeal to authority feel free to leave because that leaves little room for discussion. Then we’re just sitting on our hands waiting for a move to be made and every move is the best move because the Yankees know what they are doing so what is there to discuss?
Cano’s career minor league line
.278 .331 .425 .756
Montero
.309 .367 .495 .862
IMO the only reason Jesus wasn’t called up earlier this year was for arbitration reasons. I’m not sure what the excuse is now.
Seriously –do you really think you know better than them? And I am not talking hindsight BS arguments –b/c every team has decisions that turn out bad –we all do in life –but you take their winning percentage –these guys are PROFESSIONALS –more than you, more than me, more than anyone on this board.
——
So you have never and will never criticize a decision of these professionals?
Jerkface July 17th, 2011 at 11:30 pm
Hosmer could have probably done that
–
He had 3 HRs this year in 26 games before he got called up. Thats 16-18 in a full minor league season. Guys don’t hit .380 with 20 HRs in the minor leagues because they get called up way before that point. Montero should have been called up when he was hitting .400 for the first 3 weeks of the season.
************
Based on 2010 – Hosmer had 20 homeruns in 137 games – have to give him the benefit of the doubt he would equal that – plus he his batting average was way up and he was a better hitter this year – than 2010 – when he had a nice average around .338ish
Thing is – Montero was not called up – and his numbers have gone down since his tremendous start
“Why even come to a message board like this if you’re simply willing to give credence to everything the Yankee organization does because “they are the professionals?””
Yup, if you can’t think for yourself, it’s like failing one of life’s little IQ tests.
Based on 2010 – Hosmer had 20 homeruns in 137 games – have to give him the benefit of the doubt he would equal that – plus he his batting average was way up and he was a better hitter this year – than 2010 – when he had a nice average around .338ish
–
You seem to have misunderstood what Pat M posted and what I was responding too. He said hitters are batting .380 with 20 HRs *at this point when they are called up* because if you want to simply base it on 1 full season, Montero more than deserved a call up last year.
Face….I just looked at the hole in his swing during the last 2 weeks that he was in camp and once clubs were down 30 guys still in camp….Frankly I don’t think he’s rebounded from that ….He’s not ready to play with the big club otherwise he’d be here…Well at least for a look while Cervelli was out……….LGY, yes of course the Yanks have made some errors in player personnel but they are more often right than wrong…….Besides let’s be real here, our highly voiced opinions carry very little consequence if you catch my drift…..
LGY July 17th, 2011 at 11:36 pm
Seriously –do you really think you know better than them? And I am not talking hindsight BS arguments –b/c every team has decisions that turn out bad –we all do in life –but you take their winning percentage –these guys are PROFESSIONALS –more than you, more than me, more than anyone on this board.
——
So you have never and will never criticize a decision of these professionals?
**********
When it comes to catching in this situation – I am going to give a BUNCH of deference to the former major league catchers who are now the manager and bench coach of the Yankees – so yeah – they are going to get the initial benefit of the doubt on this one until proven otherwise.
No one hits .380 or .400 for an entire minor league season, they get called up before then. No one hits .380 with 20+ HRs either because THEY GET CALLED UP. No one hits .380 with 20 HRs over half a season because they get called up.
This is so stupid.
We have no idea if the Yankees are making decisions based on baseball or financial reasons, yet someone is going to pretend they know and give them deference.
Freakin’ unbelievable.
When it comes to catching in this situation –I am going to give a BUNCH of deference to the former major league catchers who are now the manager and bench coach of the Yankees –so yeah –they are going to get the initial benefit of the doubt on this one until proven otherwise.
——-
So you can criticize these professionals about everything but catching?
Besides let’s be real here, our highly voiced opinions carry very little consequence if you catch my drift…..
–
So leave. Why does anyone make a point to say this? We’re on a blog, nothing we do is of any consequence! No one is going to make a decision because we said it. That doesn’t mean we can’t share our opinion.
Stoneburner,
I’ll give you Figgins.
Joe Girardi is a great man and was a heady baseball player.
But thusfar I’ve failed to see him channel the baseball intelligence he displayed on the field into managerial intellect.
His mishandling of AJ Burnett in Game 4 of the ALCS last year almost certainly cost the team a chance at the World Series.
I wish there was a better way to evaluate personnel then hindsight. But there really isn’t. If the Bay of Pigs Invasion went well, no one would have criticized JFK’s decision to pull the trigger on it. It doesn’t mean that the decision was any better or worse when made under the circumstances, and admittedly it often does become difficult to evaluate managerial decisions when they can be muddled by the results.
An example- Girardi’s decision to use Burnett and Pettitte on 3 days rest in Game 5 of the 2009 World Series. Did it work out? Ultimately, yes, but given Pettitte’s track record on three days rest the stats certainly may have indicated that doing otherwise was the safer bet. Still, I appreciated Girardi’s willingness to be bold and trust his instincts rather than relying on small sample size fueled “trends” and statistics. If Girardi could use that same instinct more consistently going forward, it will benefit everyone in the quest for # 28.
Cano was doing much better than that when he got the call.
Montero has regressed offensively this season.
Let’s rename this place the LoHud Fanboy Blog
Pat M
Are they more often right than wrong? Serious question.
And of course what we say here means absolutely nothing
Face…So I just assume there’s zero merit to the term ” tearing it up at the minor league level ” according to you ???? How long have you been following baseball ??? When the time is right he’ll be up, bottom line
Jerkface July 17th, 2011 at 11:38 pm
Based on 2010 – Hosmer had 20 homeruns in 137 games – have to give him the benefit of the doubt he would equal that – plus he his batting average was way up and he was a better hitter this year – than 2010 – when he had a nice average around .338ish
–
You seem to have misunderstood what Pat M posted and what I was responding too. He said hitters are batting .380 with 20 HRs *at this point when they are called up* because if you want to simply base it on 1 full season, Montero more than deserved a call up last year.
********
If you are going off of last August – then yeah – the bat should have justified a callup then – but the Yanks thought otherwise – and they went the way of Lance Berkman – and we sure as not ready to let a unproven defensive catcher call games down the pennant stretch
This year – it is a different story – and you cannot go on what someone did in July/August last year and say they are that player right now – b/c that is just looking at pure robotic stats in the past vs. what your eyes and player personnel are telling you as of right now. For whatever reason – this season’s Montero – 2011 – they are not calling him up. If Montero was ready in their eyes – he would be up – who wouldn’t want what has been advertised and speculated – an average defensive catcher who hits .300 and can slug 25-30 HRs. We are not going to know the real story why they have not called him up until either the kid is traded or called up.
Plenty of guys tear up the minors and are terrible when they get the call.
And there are guys who are so so or struggling in the minors and get a jump start by coming to the majors.
I think with Montero’s hitting tools a call to the majors could jump start him.
Face…So I just assume there’s zero merit to the term ” tearing it up at the minor league level ” according to you ???? How long have you been following baseball ??? When the time is right he’ll be up, bottom line
–
What are you talking about? I have pointed out to you numerous examples of players who were not ‘tearing it up at the minor league level’ that came up and were good. I have also given you examples of the reverse. Many players tear up AA and get called up, Montero tore up AA. Please don’t condescend to me about following baseball. When the time is right? No one knows when the time is right! If everyone knew when the time was right no prospect would ever come up and struggle. You can never know how prepared a player is to perform in the majors until you give them that chance, and you might not even find out until years later! Some guys need to adjust to the majors. Some don’t. Some take years before figuring it out. They are human Pat M, not cakes. you don’t leave it in the oven until a specified time then take it out and eat it.
LGY….I’d say the Yanks have been 60-40 on the correct side of the ledger over the past 15-16 years…I think that’s rather good…Face , your calling in life was to be a town square cryer, you certainly love to hear your own voice regardless of it’s correctness
If Montero was ready in their eyes
–
Their eyes aren’t the keepers of who is ready or not. So while this is true at face value, the Yankees have no idea if Montero is ready or not.
“Montero – 2011 – they are not calling him up. ”
Except Cash told Francesa a month or so ago that if Martin was DL’d that Montero would be called up and start. He said the only reason he wasn’t being called up is because they want him to start wherever he plays, and Cash, by definition, is never wrong.
Perhaps Montero isn’t “ready.” “Ready,” meaning, not ready to hit .300/.400/.500, like he very well should be able to in his prime.
But he is “ready” to hit .250/.300/.400.
The difference in opinion between many of us on Lohud and the Yankee front office right now lies in a belief that pretty much ANYTHING Montero does constitutes an upgrade over Russell Martin with the bat.
Seriously, he can OPS .700 and still quantify as a big improvement offensively.
Cano was hitting .360 in AAA and swinging the bat like Rod Carew. The Yankees very wisely tossed out his career minor league line. With young players, what they do more recently at the higher levels tends to be a better predictor of future MLB performance than what they do when they are 17, 18, 19 and 20 years old.
“Face , your calling in life was to be a town square cryer, you certainly love to hear your own voice regardless of it’s correctness”
Pat
I think you add a lot to this site, but Jerkface is right an awful lot, even at times when I disagree with him.
Rich, why is it any different than you thinking the Yankees are wrong much of the time? It’s ok to be skeptical of the Yankees, but it’s not ok to trust them or to think they’ve made and are making right decisions?
Face , your calling in life was to be a town square cryer, you certainly love to hear your own voice regardless of it’s correctness
–
I’m like 100% correct in this, unless you can explain Matt Holliday, Hanley, Rasmus, Wieters, Laporta, Pedroia, Youkilis, etc.
With young players, what they do more recently at the higher levels tends to be a better predictor of future MLB performance than what they do when they are 17, 18, 19 and 20 years old.
–
Heh, Not even close to true.
Betsy
Where did I say that the Yankees were wrong most of the time? Can you link it?
G-C July 17th, 2011 at 11:42 pm
Stoneburner,
I’ll give you Figgins.
Joe Girardi is a great man and was a heady baseball player.
But thusfar I’ve failed to see him channel the baseball intelligence he displayed on the field into managerial intellect.
His mishandling of AJ Burnett in Game 4 of the ALCS last year almost certainly cost the team a chance at the World Series.
I wish there was a better way to evaluate personnel then hindsight. But there really isn’t. If the Bay of Pigs Invasion went well, no one would have criticized JFK’s decision to pull the trigger on it. It doesn’t mean that the decision was any better or worse when made under the circumstances, and admittedly it often does become difficult to evaluate managerial decisions when they can be muddled by the results.
An example- Girardi’s decision to use Burnett and Pettitte on 3 days rest in Game 5 of the 2009 World Series. Did it work out? Ultimately, yes, but given Pettitte’s track record on three days rest the stats certainly may have indicated that doing otherwise was the safer bet. Still, I appreciated Girardi’s willingness to be bold and trust his instincts rather than relying on small sample size fueled “trends” and statistics. If Girardi could use that same instinct more consistently going forward, it will benefit everyone in the quest for # 28.
***********
Very good points. And I do not think Joe G walks on water. But I do think he is done an admirable job trying to manage a team that is steeped in dynasty history (including players he once played with) while trying to bring this team into kind of the 21st century – especially in a post-steroid era where pitching and defense are back.
I also will defer to him INITIALLY when it comes to catching. If he finds that the staff is better with a particular catcher – than so be it for the time being. We did get spoiled with offense at catching – and I think the whole steroid era inflated expectations for certain positions in general – but it is a new age and if Martin in Joe’s view gives the team a better chance than a rookie who would probably hit some more but may not be defensively adequate back there and lose the trust of the pitching staff – I will go with Joe G on this one for the time being. Could he be wrong – SURE – but for me – I am not there yet.
Gotta run and get to bed. Long work week ahead.
“Cano was doing much better than that when he got the call.
Montero has regressed offensively this season.”
I will give you that, what about Cervelli? Why did he get the call and Montero hasn’t? It’s almost as if Montero’s super prospect status, has hurt his opportunity to get a chance.
And in fairness, I believe he has been working on his defense to the detriment of his offense.
Rich in NJ….Face is on the money alot and this I agree with you on, however in his mind he’s never wrong and that’s my point……
Betsy
Weren’t you recently criticizing the Yanks for not giving Colon and Hughes enough rehab starts…
Rich, just generally you express a skepticism about the Yankees. I don’t have a dog in this show, but I don’t get why it’s a big deal for someone or anyone to think the Yankees may actually know what their doing.
Sure, Montero could OPS .700 in his first cup of tea and upgrade Cervelli possibly.
But then it’s more difficult to sell him as a guy you can build an offense around. It’s harder to envision a future MVP when you’re watching a rookie struggle.
So I think the Yankees are protecting his trade value.
Jimenez is the 3rd player targeted by the Yankees with Montero to be used as the main trade chip. Halladay, Lee, Jimenez (4 if you count Soria).
Do the math.
The Yankees probably view this guy as a future 1b.
I was surprised when they signed Tex.
Prospects need performance and opportunity to get called up but the most important one might be opportunity. And the lower your prospect status the more likely you are to get called up in terms of opportunity. Because no one cares if you suck at the major league level. What I don’t get is that there is plenty of opportunity for Montero right now…
Maddon is burning relievers left and right
It’s almost as if Montero’s super prospect status, has hurt his opportunity to get a chance.
——
Spot on.
LGY, sorry, I have no idea what your point is. I never said they shouldn’t be criticized; what I’m having an issue with is people getting on people for having faith that maybe they know what they’re doing. I did disagree with how they handled Colon and Hughes, but I also think they are making the right move/non-move with Montero. Saying someone is a fanboy because they believe the team is in the right is kind of rough IMO
however in his mind he’s never wrong and that’s my point……
–
I only get in arguments I can win, which is all of them. Your point has nothing to do with the point I am making now, why run from the topic at hand to try and further this ‘jerkface is never wrong’ meme?
Betsy
So you admit that you overstated your point?
Yes, of course, I’m skeptical because I realize that when the Yankees (or any sports franchise) put their financial interests above baseball interests it is contrary to my interests as a fan.
Generally, I admit that I’m a skeptical person about life. We live in a country that may not even pay its past debts. So yeah, I don’t trust anyone blindly.
Montero was never offered for Soria. That’s total BS.
Jerkface,
Ease up on yourself, quit sniffing your own farts.
When in lohud history has ANYONE admitted they are wrong?
Cervelli got called up because 3 guys in front of him were hurt.
If Martin and Cervelli went on the DL at the same time I’m sure Montero would be here out of necessity.
“Sure, Montero could OPS .700 in his first cup of tea and upgrade Cervelli possibly.”
That would be an upgrade over Martin as well.
Giuseppe,
Ok. Fine. 3 players now. Halladay, Lee, Jimenez.
Is the picture getting clearer yet for you?
Rich in NJ July 17th, 2011 at 11:48 pm
“Montero – 2011 – they are not calling him up. ”
Except Cash told Francesa a month or so ago that if Martin was DL’d that Montero would be called up and start. He said the only reason he wasn’t being called up is because they want him to start wherever he plays, and Cash, by definition, is never wrong.
******************
From the man in charge of the minors:
SJK: Well, let’s go back to what you said earlier in that the Yankees’ main priority is to win games at the big league level. Playing devil’s advocate, why wasn’t Montero brought up when Russell Martin went down to his back injury? Obviously, when it comes to at least hitting, there is no comparison between Cervelli and Montero. Why wasn’t Montero called up if the priority is to “win now?”
MN: Cervelli still would have caught every day because he knows the pitching staff. Joe wouldn’t use Montero, and there was no point using him as a backup to Cervelli.
“Jimenez is the 3rd player targeted by the Yankees with Montero to be used as the main trade chip. Halladay, Lee, Jimenez (4 if you count Soria)”
_________________________________________
Bret,
Do you really think that anyone in the Yankees organization would have even half seriously entertained the thought of trading Montero for Soria?
That was media fueled nonsense, nothing more, nothing less. Actually, maybe Randy Levine would have entertained the idea of it. He seems to like his expensive, overqualified setup men
Betsy
I’m saying you can’t selectively choose when to throw around the Yankees know more than us argument.
I only get in arguments I can win, which is all of them.
——————————————–
Did you come up with that yourself if so can I borrow it.
Pretty funny that a few of the fans screaming to make the deal because “we have to win every year” were the same ones calling for Cashman’s head because we “had a poor farm system” a year ago. Amazing.
Rich in NJ,
If you ignore defense, game-calling, controlling the running game, leadership and clubhouse presence, yeah, sure.
“From the man in charge of the minors:
SJK: Well, let’s go back to what you said earlier in that the Yankees’ main priority is to win games at the big league level. Playing devil’s advocate, why wasn’t Montero brought up when Russell Martin went down to his back injury? Obviously, when it comes to at least hitting, there is no comparison between Cervelli and Montero. Why wasn’t Montero called up if the priority is to “win now?”
MN: Cervelli still would have caught every day because he knows the pitching staff. Joe wouldn’t use Montero, and there was no point using him as a backup to Cervelli.”
__
Yeah, exactly. I have posted that myself more than once.
Who cares what Newman says? He’s not the GM.
But you trust his word anyway. Sweet.
Giuseppe Franco July 17th, 2011 at 11:57 pm
Montero was never offered for Soria. That’s total BS.
(****
It was speculated that either the Royals asked for Montero and others – or that is what the Royals would want – so very true – there has never been any confirmation that the Yankees offered him for Soria – very true.
Did you come up with that yourself if so can I borrow it.
–
I’ll allow it. Almost all the arguments here are opinion based, who is going to change anyone’s opinion?
Looks like Maddon had dinner reservations for 12:30.
I only get in arguments I can win, which is all of them.
—–
LOL
“Is the picture getting clearer yet for you?”
__________________________________
Not really. Those first two are arguably the two best pitchers in baseball. Only elite prospects can be dangled for elite players, and typically the Yankees like to pursue elite players.
I don’t really understand your point.
That he was dangled for those two is representative of his ability just how highly he is regarded around the league as a future impact bat.
G-C,
Fine. Then the Yankees have been willing to trade him for 3 players instead of 4.
Is the picture getting clearer for you yet?
No, let’s just say I clarified it. I agree with you on a lot of things – I don’t think the Yankees are perfect by any means, but neither do I think they are incompetent. Like any organization, they make good moves and bad. I don’t see how they are putting financial considerations about baseball interests here………now the draft and IFA? I can see that – that bothers me.
By the way, I think it’s a good thing not to trust blindly…..so I’m not questioning you on that at all.
I guess I just don’t get the rush to promote Montero when he’s not exactly tearing up AAA. Martin has been bad offensively, but IMO his catching prowess is good enough to offset that. I know you disagree. Moving on – there are other players on this team who need to step up – Martin isn’t the only one worthy of criticism. Cano has been disappointing, Swisher inconsistent to say the least and Tex – well we’ve said lots about Tex recently
Bret
As has been discussed before, give me Piazza over virtually any catcher during the time he played. Was Pudge better at times? Maybe, but he could hit. Martin can’t hit water in a boat with a paddle.
“No, let’s just say I clarified it. I agree with you on a lot of things – I don’t think the Yankees are perfect by any means, but neither do I think they are incompetent. Like any organization, they make good moves and bad. I don’t see how they are putting financial considerations about baseball interests here………now the draft and IFA? I can see that – that bothers me.”
Well Betsy, I never said what you said I said.
I guess I just don’t get the rush to promote Montero when he’s not exactly tearing up AAA.
–
As I have explained, hopefully thoroughly enough, tearing it up in AAA has nothing to do with MLB performance. People who are very careful and risk-averse might wait until their prospects are overboiled before calling them up, I can understand that.
We are not getting Ubaldo for spare parts. “If” its going to happen its going to sting badly. It will take a few years to find out if it was worth it. Its a poker game for GM’s.
Rich in NJ July 18th, 2011 at 12:00 am
“From the man in charge of the minors:
SJK: Well, let’s go back to what you said earlier in that the Yankees’ main priority is to win games at the big league level. Playing devil’s advocate, why wasn’t Montero brought up when Russell Martin went down to his back injury? Obviously, when it comes to at least hitting, there is no comparison between Cervelli and Montero. Why wasn’t Montero called up if the priority is to “win now?”
MN: Cervelli still would have caught every day because he knows the pitching staff. Joe wouldn’t use Montero, and there was no point using him as a backup to Cervelli.”
__
Yeah, exactly. I have posted that myself more than once.
Who cares what Newman says? He’s not the GM.
But you trust his word anyway. Sweet.
*************
Until you want to post something that says Mark Newman is a liar – a very strong statement indeed – just let me know.
Rich
But will the Yankees ever give Montero a chance over Martin?
# Bret The Hitman July 17th, 2011 at 11:58 pm
Giuseppe,
Ok. Fine. 3 players now. Halladay, Lee, Jimenez.
Is the picture getting clearer yet for you?
———–
What are you talking about? Do you even know?
It’s always best to take trade rumors at this time of year with a grain of salt. All we know is there’s talk going on but we don’t have any idea what is true and what isn’t.
Some of the bigger moves than happen at the deadline are moves you don’t hear about beforehand.
As baseball fans, we should know rumors run wild at this time of the year and most of it turns out to be nothing.
LGY, well in general I think they do – them making mistakes doesn’t mean they know as little as fans do. We don’t agree on the Montero issue, that’s clear. I don’t think he’d be this impact player like people think and frankly, I don’t want him handling the staff. I really am fine with Martin despite his offense and prefer to concentrate my frustration on other players who deserve it as much if not more.
LGY July 17th, 2011 at 11:57 pm
When in lohud history has ANYONE admitted they are wrong?
___
I have….
No wait, that’s wrong.
Which is it? Hmmmm?
My point is that the Yankees aren’t treating Montero like this once in a generation superstar future Mickey Mantle.
They have offered him for Halladay in the final year of his deal, Lee for HALF A SEASON and now Jimenez – a NATIONAL LEAGUE pitcher.
He’s not GOD. He’s not your DADDY. He ain’t the hot girl you never had the guts to ask out on a date.
Chill on him. Dang.
Wow.
The Rays walk the bases loaded with no outs and get out of it.
Montero is being treated like Rueben Rivera, and Banuelos like Sean Henn.
The only one I would truly hate losing is Betances. His physical tools are awesome.
I just wonder what the last minor league numbers were for every Yankee starter was before they got called up for good….Position players
Ubaldo may or may not happen; it’s just a rumor and none of us knows what if anything is going on behind the scenes.
The important issue here is not Ubaldo specifically, it’s getting a number two starter if possible so we can better compete with the likes of Boston, the Angels, and Philly in the post season.
I’ve actually admitted I was wrong before, but I’ll leave it up to the readers at home to find out when and what it was about.
and prefer to concentrate my frustration on other players who deserve it as much if not more.
—–
“Until you want to post something that says Mark Newman is a liar – a very strong statement indeed – just let me know.”
As far as I know, WFAN doesn’t archive interviews that long. If they do, you can find it. But he said it and I posted it here in real time.
I didn’t call him a liar. I said that when there is a conflict with what the GM said, I’ll go with the GM.
Let me ask this question for a poll survey.
If Cashman announced that he is willing to move Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Nova, and Nunez in a package deal, who is the best pitcher you think would be offered for that? Give me top 3 that would be offered.
Try this:
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/?p.....cid=CBS.NY
If Montero gets dealt for Jimenez, then Romine gets the promo to AAA.
Nobody is excited about this?
Austine Romine supposedly plays full-throttle and works extremely hard on his game.
Jerkface July 18th, 2011 at 12:05 am
I’ve actually admitted I was wrong before, but I’ll leave it up to the readers at home to find out when and what it was about.
___
Wasn’t that when you told your girlfriend that candy wrappers were as effective as trojans? Many of us have made the same mistake.
Bret,
Who said that the Yankees “offered Montero for Jimenez?”
I seriously doubt that Brian Cashman picked up the phone today and offered Jesus Montero for Ubaldo Jimenez.
All we know is that the Yankees have expressed some kind of interest in Jimenez, and OBVIOUSLY Montero’s name is going to be attached as a potential name that could be exchanged in a potential deal. Lots of “potentials” there. I take rumors like this with a grain of salt.
I respect Cashman’s belief that acquiring a bonafide ace to pair with Sabathia could have made the Yankees nearly impossible to beat over the next five years in the regular and postseason. Montero is the single thing that gave him an opportunity to accomplish that goal. I didn’t happen to agree with it, particularly in Lee’s case, but I can force myself to at least understand some of the reasoning behind it. I think it says a lot about Montero that he’s regarded in that fashion.
Any interview with any baseball executive spins the organization and all their moves positive. Remember when Joba was a starter because his injury made it so he couldn’t warm up fast enough? Then when he was a reliever it was because his injury made it so he couldn’t start. The same injury.
Its all nonsense. I think the Yankees overall are well run and probably have lots of smart people making decisions and in the end I can only sit back and watch what they do, but I’m a fan because I’m passionate about the sport and I’ll call them dumbies if they do something I strongly disagree with. I’m sure Padre fans were thrilled with trading A-gon away.
Bret The Hitman July 18th, 2011 at 12:08 am
If Montero gets dealt for Jimenez, then Romine gets the promo to AAA.
Nobody is excited about this?
____
Moma and Popa Romine are
If Montero gets dealt for Jimenez, then Romine gets the promo to AAA.
Nobody is excited about this?
–
He is hitting worse than Montero in a lower league. If you expect him to somehow get better by moving UP a level, why do you think Montero wouldn’t?
There is so much crap thrown around here and I don’t mean an honest opinion. Like criticizing the Yankees for giving Hughes so many days off until his start today, and slamming them for not giving him another start in the minors.
Surprise! Hughes was working on his mechanics and curve ball with his pitching coach who last I heard was with the team not in SWB – and resting his arm as he continues to build up strength as he recovers from his inflammation issue.
Shows what astute analysts those people are.
Rich in NJ July 18th, 2011 at 12:06 am
“Until you want to post something that says Mark Newman is a liar – a very strong statement indeed – just let me know.”
As far as I know, WFAN doesn’t archive interviews that long. If they do, you can find it. But he said it and I posted it here in real time.
I didn’t call him a liar. I said that when there is a conflict with what the GM said, I’ll go with the GM.
********
Fair enough – but I am going with the head of player development (whose job is to evaluate the development and readiness of the minor leagues for the big league club and make a recommendation) and the manager who used to catch in the majors (and whose job is to play the player, was handpicked by the GM, and has admitted via Newman that he would not play Montero regularly and would defer to Cervelli to start) OVER the guy who last played baseball for Catholic University in the 1980s and describes his job title as the “director of spending” on this one – remember this is the same GM who got overruled by Randy frickin Levine.
I would trade Montero and Nova for Gio. I wonder if the A’s would be interested.
G-C,
Well, the Rockies floated their demands and then Heyman said the Yankees said they would part with Montero.
Yanks have yet to deny it.
We’ll see what happens tomorrow.
Tex was signed to be part of the solution.
He has quickly become part of the problem.
If that wasn’t the case, trading Montero wouldn’t hurt nearly as much.
LGY, is that a sarcastic
?
# Rich in NJ July 17th, 2011 at 11:58 pm
“Sure, Montero could OPS .700 in his first cup of tea and upgrade Cervelli possibly.”
That would be an upgrade over Martin as well.
———————————-
I like Martin and I’m happy to have him on the team but boy has he fell off the cliff since his hot start.
I’m not saying the Yankees can never trade Jesus but he is the only impact bat they have. Ppl seem to think the Yankees can do what they did yrs ago and pick up multiple items year after yr. Those days are over. Other teams now have money to spend which means the bats are few and far between or never make it to the the market. Guys like Tulo, Braun, Mauer, and others get locked up by their current clubs. Do ppl remember that the pitching FA class that just passed was suppose to feature names like Halladay, Verlander, Cain, Beckett, and Lee. Only of those pitchers made it to the market and he didn’t even come here.
“Fair enough – but I am going with the head of player development (whose job is to evaluate the development and readiness of the minor leagues for the big league club and make a recommendation) and the manager who used to catch in the majors (and whose job is to play the player, was handpicked by the GM, and has admitted via Newman that he would not play Montero regularly and would defer to Cervelli to start) OVER the guy who last played baseball for Catholic University in the 1980s and describes his job title as the “director of spending” on this one – remember this is the same GM who got overruled by Randy frickin Levine.”
You may trust their opinions, although Newman has presided over the mL for years and success only came when Cash power over the draft, but do you really think that Cash doesn’t have the final say over the ML roster/
Jerkface,
I’m excited because Romine supposedly is very committed to winning and works hard on his game. He just seems like a Yankee. He supposedly plays full throttle as well. I’m not thinking strictly about his impact on the SWB Yankees playoff hopes. So his #’s in AAA don’t dictate how I feel excited about him taking the next step.
The situation is more complex than Jimenez = instant success. Colon has pitched like a 1A and if Hughes returns to pre All Star break form of last year you have three top pitchers. Assets don’t disappear. These assets can be used to upgrade the offense going forward as in elite offensive talent. Right now the left side infield is aging rapidly, DH and C are nonexistent, Swisher is Swisher and Teix is looking scary.
I think Montero could benefit from playing in this Yankee lineup vs. staying in AAA. There’s so many stars around him that pitchers wouldn’t target him as much and there would be less pressure to perform. Look at how Cano, Melky, and Gardner hit after getting regular ABs their rookie year. Even lesser talents like Shelly Duncan, Cervelli, Miranda, and Nunez have held their own with the bat. It’s much easier for a hitter to get acclimated here than a pitcher.
The strange thing to me is that I cannot recall a trade that Cashman made where we knew of rumors about it before hand. To me, that is really telling. It’s always the ones under the radar that he makes.
Betsy
Nah. I thought it was funny.
Can somehow both of these teams lose at the Trop tonight.
Might need to go PK’s to end it tonight…
# Bret The Hitman July 18th, 2011 at 12:03 am
My point is that the Yankees aren’t treating Montero like this once in a generation superstar future Mickey Mantle.
They have offered him for Halladay in the final year of his deal, Lee for HALF A SEASON and now Jimenez – a NATIONAL LEAGUE pitcher.
He’s not GOD. He’s not your DADDY. He ain’t the hot girl you never had the guts to ask out on a date.
Chill on him. Dang.
————
You don’t know if Montero was offered for Jimenez. Uncle Jon Heyman making that claim doesn’t necessarily make it true.
None of these kids are gods. Neither is Jimenez. What’s your point?
Romine doesn’t do anything great.
He is basically just average or above average at everything.
He’s boring
“Gotcha!” is a popular game in here.
George almost traded Rivera, Bernie, Pettitte, and Posada at various times according to various reports. How different the last 20 years would look if that had happened.
Yankees have not denied Heyman’s characterization of the Yankees response to Colorado’s demands where he said that they were willing to part with Montero.
We’ll see if they deny it tomorrow.
I highly doubt it.
Wow it’s hard to keep up tonight. I walk away and there are like 30 new posts.
“If Martin and Cervelli went on the DL at the same time I’m sure Montero would be here out of necessity.”
Are you sure it wouldn’t be Romine?
Anyway IMO Montero wasn’t called up initially because of Arbitration issues. Now it’s probably because they want to protect his trade value. It’s All about the greater value to the team and not because of any “regression” or his ability to play the game.
Those were not issue’s with Cano or Cervelli.
Adding Ubaldo doesn’t change anything from the first half of the season, where there were many, many complaints about the offense. People might not have believed in Colon + Garcia but they pitched like aces in the first half and the Yankees weren’t unbeatable. So like, why trade Montero if all you’re getting is the same Colon+Garcia production just from a different (albeit more sustainable, maybe) source? You’ll still have to deal with terrible RISP hitting and offensive slumps because too many hitters can’t be depended on and are simply below replacement level.
Oh, lol……… ok, I’m sorry
I don’t mean to get on Montero – I really, really want the Yankees to hold onto him because the lineup going forward (meaning the next few years) has some serious concerns. I really thought Cano would step up – but he hasn’t – and, as you said, Tex is a problem. IMO, they really can’t trade Montero…..but on the other hand, he’s not had a great year and this is his 2nd at AAA. Still, he’s very young…….. This is why the Yankees’ inability to develop pitching may cost them. Every year they have to go out and try and trade for a very good pitcher – and that costs assets.
You may trust their opinions, although Newman has presided over the mL for years and success only came when Cash power over the draft, but do you really think that Cash doesn’t have the final say over the ML roster/
*******
We know he does not have final say in the offseason – that much is true from his lips.
He has done a great job organizing the structure of the organization and stopping the infighting for the most part b/w Tampa and New York – but he is also a contract negotiator – getting C.C. – getting a David Justice – that is where he shines – he admits – he DEFERS to other departments.
While more often than not Cashman makes MOST of the final says (not all – Hal is the one who has the final say – he said not to Mike Cameron in 2009 summer) – he seeks a ton of input from the Epplers, and Newmans, and Nardys – and Joe G – that is higher – that is Cashman’s manager – Cashman inherited Torre from the Watson era. Girardi is a Cashman guy – and a former catcher – and if Newman is credible – and he is saying Joe would never play him and defer to Cervelli b/c Cervelli already has a year’s experience catching a mlb staff – we will never know what the outcome would have been – but the thing is – Montero is still not up here as a DH or a BUC/DH – and we do not know why. . . .
“Yankees have not denied Heyman’s characterization of the Yankees response to Colorado’s demands where he said that they were willing to part with Montero.”
Have they commented on it at all? Why would they? They could merely be trying to drive up the price for another team.
# BoJo July 18th, 2011 at 12:07 am
Let me ask this question for a poll survey.
If Cashman announced that he is willing to move Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Nova, and Nunez in a package deal, who is the best pitcher you think would be offered for that? Give me top 3 that would be offered.
——————————————————–
Felix, Kershaw, Lincecum
Well, the Rockies floated their demands and then Heyman said the Yankees said they would part with Montero.
Yanks have yet to deny it.
————
That’s your big scoop? The Yanks have yet to deny any trade rumors involving specific players?
This MUST be your first rodeo because everyone knows that Cashman isn’t going to comment on any trade speculation.
You can’t negotiate trade talks through the media.
Stoneburner
You’re actually saying that if Cash said that he would call up Montero and start him if Martin was DL’d that he doesn’t have the power to do that? Really?
I’d rather have Prince Fielder then Montero.
If AROD starts to break down, you DL the guy. Otherwise he plays 3b. Same goes for Jeter.
DH is wide open in my book.
The Yankees have never caved to the monster demands of teams when addressing the team’s faults. No Hughes for Reggie Sanders, no Austin Jackson/Montero for Jarrod Washburn, no IPK for Gagne.
I’m excited because Romine supposedly is very committed to winning and works hard on his game. He just seems like a Yankee. He supposedly plays full throttle as well.
——————————–
Can’t the same be said about the Cisco Kid
I’d rather have Prince Fielder then Montero.
–
A lot of people would , but they aren’t signing a 25 million dollar DH when other teams with money have real needs at 1st.
Yankees can easily say Montero is untouchable tomorrow and not directly comment on that Heyman tweet whatsoever.
But they won’t.
Screw the other teams.
I want Prince Fielder in YS.
“Yankees can easily say Montero is untouchable tomorrow and not directly comment on that Heyman tweet whatsoever.
But they won’t.”
Because it would be stupid to do so if they are trying to raise the price for another team.
I have no idea what they are thinking, but neither do you.
I have no problem with the Cisco kid as a backup.
And I don’t think Romine would be handed that job. He’d have to bust his tail for it or play possum, throw a pity party, slack off and act bored in AAA, claiming he needs more of a challenge.
Not sure which path grabs the Yanks attention.
Screw the other teams.
I want Prince Fielder in YS.
–
Would you like your baba too?
Wow, Jerkface trolling!
Are you getting emotional?
Cashman never talks about specific players in trade negotiations. Never.
# Bret The Hitman July 18th, 2011 at 12:22 am
Screw the other teams.
I want Prince Fielder in YS.
—————————————–
6-7 yrs 140 million
Rich in NJ July 18th, 2011 at 12:20 am
Stoneburner
You’re actually saying that if Cash said that he would call up Montero and start him if Martin was DL’d that he doesn’t have the power to do that? Really?
*********
NO – I am saying Cashman DEFERS to evaluators like Newman – and Newman and via Newman Joe G are saying otherwise – it is not certain it happens. We will never know. And Cashman can get overruled – and sure he can overrule Newman and Joe Girardi – and Girardi can pull a Billy Martin and not play the kid. But I am sorry – Newman’s comments – which were made AFTER Cashman’s – may hold more credence as to what was really going on. Fact is – there have been other opportunities for Montero to make the big league club – and it has not happened yet. Something is going on – just do not know what . . .
Rich in NJ,
So you admit that the Yankees at least have someone in mind that they want to keep Montero available for and off the “untouchable” list?
It’s not hard to do.
They can ignore Heyman, Ubaldo and the Rockies.
They can come out tomorrow and say Montero is untouchable.
But they won’t.
The Yanks ain’t signing Fielder. Good grief.
Don’t care.
Sign Prince Fielder to whack 50HR’s and hit .300.
“NO – I am saying Cashman DEFERS to evaluators like Newman – ”
Then it stands to reason, doesn’t it, that he would do so before he said otherwise to Francesa, who for all his faults, has about the largest sports audience in NYC.
btw, How long has Newman been in charge of the Yankees’ mL system?
IMO Montero has never been called up because it will hurt his trade value when hes getting exposed every night in the MLB. They must think hes not that good. Hes had enough time in the minors.
How fast would Prince turn into a .250 hitter if the Yanks signed him?
The only time Cashman came out and said we’re not trading these players is when Cano and Wang for Ibanez was running rampant in 2005.
Wow, Jerkface trolling!
Are you getting emotional?
–
Uh is this supposed to be ironic, where you essentially just posted a ‘tantrum’ that wouldn’t look out of place in a toy store and you ask ME if I’m getting emotional?
Bret, I think it would be awesome if they signed Prince. I already said I would prefer Pujols over Prince but they should sign either if they could. I think they CAN’T. They have a budget, its 200 million, and it affects what they can do. Adding a 25 million dollar DH pretty much forces them to keep Montero as they will need all the cheap position players they can.
Sign Prince Fielder to whack 50HR’s and hit .300.
——
He’s a career 280 hitter
Bret
I admit that the Yankees often live by one year plans for financial reasons, and despite how awful Martin has been offensively, they might make a short-sighted trade that includes Montero.
LGY,
Do you really believe that?
It’s Prince Fielder!
How fast would Prince turn into a .250 hitter if the Yanks signed him?
–
He is only a career .280 hitter and hit .260 just last year. Pretty quick I’d say.
# Bret The Hitman July 18th, 2011 at 12:27 am
Don’t care.
Sign Prince Fielder to whack 50HR’s and hit .300.
———————————-
Another long term big money contract. What happened to all the talk about “getting the payroll in line.” – Cashman
Would you prefer Jose Reyes?
He’s hitting .354.
I’d have interest in Reyes.
Bret
Do I believe what?
DFA Jeter, sign Reyes. I could live with that.
Ouch! Orel says, ” When Boston doesn’t score you think the game is going to continue because the Rays offense isn’t likely to score.”
In the curse of Giambi.
Reyes would basically have to agree to play another position for a year to come here.
Fielder eh? Pitching, defense and Fielder.
Teix might hit 50 HRs and 100 popups this year and still not contribute that much. Paper Power – as in looks good on paper, quality ABs not so much.
In the curse of Giambi.
——
Don’t think it’s a curse, but Fielder is not typically a high average guy as it is and the short porch is tempting to these pull happy HR hitters.
hmmm.
Yankees price driving Prince Fielder on the Sox while secretly coveting Reyes?
Fielder has more plate discipline than Tex, even when he hit .260 he got on base around .390. They still won’t sign him though. Tex could probably play other positions if necessary. Fielder, not so much.
Bottom 13, Rays are on their 8th pitcher. We may get our 19-inning marathon after all.
Red Sox aren’t going to sign Fielder. Youkilis will have to move to DH soon, he can’t survive at third.
… and their 3rd manager of the night, btw.
Fielder has more plate discipline than Tex, even when he hit .260 he got on base around .
——
So he’d be Giambi.
Tex can’t even hold Giambi’s jock strap with his ugly OBP.
I’d like to see Damon pitch….NOT REALLY….
Sox have plenty of loot to splurge. If not Fielder, then maybe they want Reyes?
Tex is the new Carlos Pena.
Prince would turn into Giambi at YS.
That could get ugly. No Prince.
Sox have plenty of loot to splurge. If not Fielder, then maybe they want Reyes?
–
Reyes, outfield, and pitching.
Jeter cannot let Reyes sign with the RS.
I would wait for Kemp.
Reyes AND Kemp.
Or sign Pujols if
the YankeesLevine wants a $20+ million DHBret
If the Yanks lock up every position with a long term contract what happens to NYY rumors?
I would love to have Reyes, but that’s not going to happen unless he can play RF. And would Girardi put him in the bottom of the lineup or does Grandy get moved down?
A healthy A-rod will be big for us. Hopefully he comes back the April version. That will be a big boost for this offense.
It’s really frustrating watching Teix’s ABs. We really need him to start producing.
Tomorrow would be a great night to take advantage of the Rays before they get back to a normal sleep pattern for Tues. game.
I don’t think Fielder has more plate discipline than Tex. He just sees fewer pitches to hit because he’s got McGehee batting behind him instead of ARod. And Fielder already has 13 IBB this year…Tex only has 2.
If Fielder came here, he’d probably see his walks go down, and his AVG would almost surely go down. At least with Tex we get some righty ABs where he ditches the pull swing and remembers to hit to all fields.
The first year or two with Fielder would be awesome…but I don’t know what it would look like beyond that
RS….And then there’s the Gold Glove factor
So who do we want to win this game tampa or Bos?
Reyes will be coming to the Yankees unless Jeter retires.
And Jeter is not giving up that money.
No to Prince too. No big money DH’s, thanks.
No to Fielder in pinstripes.
will *not* be coming to the Yankees…
Also, no to Reyes and his boneheadedness in pinstripes. Yes, I know he’s hitting .354. I also know he took longer to come back from a hammy than Boone took to come back from open heart surgery that year.
There are more people left at the Trop in the bottom of the 14th inning than show up for most Marlins games.
You know who I want? Pujols. He broke his wrist and came back in like 2 days and is OPSing over 1 off the DL.
I can’t believe the recorded attendance was only 21,000 on Johnny bobblehead night. For tonight.
Also I would think they would be in about the 17th with the scored still at zeroes.
Jerkface July 18th, 2011 at 1:11 am
You know who I want? Pujols. He broke his wrist and came back in like 2 days and is OPSing over 1 off the DL.
————————————
$30 Million DH?
Even if you remove IBBs Fielder still has a higher walk rate. Tex gets IBB’d as well.
If we get Ubaldo it will be a good thing. I don’t believe it will take the 4 players that have been floated.
If we don’t get him, Montero stays in the fold.
Win-win.
This Sox/Rays game is some kind of awesome. Exploding lights, Red Sox futility, Tampa exhausting themselves.
Aceves acting like a Red Sox thug. How the mighty have fallen
Booth is totally disrespecting the Rays offense. I’ve counted 5 cracks in the last hour. They are punch drunk and want to go home.
Now Bobby V calling Varitek “Cap” “Nice job Cap”
I mean seriously Pete Abe should just run some Sux hats and Jerseys up to the booth there for those three idiots.
Nice catch by Zobrist. Blown save coming up
Sux don’t really have anything to be to proud of tonight. Taking this long to score off of the Rays relievers is not necessarily something to raise a flag for.
m July 18th, 2011 at 1:44 am
Nice catch by Zobrist. Blown save coming up
———————
That would be so sweet.
Hell the bullpen coach will get a call tomorrow night and he’ll toss a ball on the bullpen mound and nobody will be able to pick in up
Justin Smoak update: .227 .325 .411 .736
===========================
No question that Justin has been struggling but, what Mariner hitter (not named Ackley) isn’t? He had a great start to the season and amazingly continued his hot-hitting for quite awhile even after returning to the team from bereavement leave due to the death of his father. Justin leads the team in RBI, HR, 2B and BB (granted, with this offense, that may not be saying much – but just think how much worse it would be if they didn’t have him!). Anyway, I think it’ll be awhile before he can be dubbed a success or a failure – considering he hasn’t even had 700 major league at bats yet.
Other pieces acquired in the Lee trade also contributing…
~Beavan (called up when Bedard went on the DL) in 3 starts = 20IP – 2.70ERA
~Laffey (acquired by flipping Lawson who was in the original trade) 34.1IP in relief w/1.84ERA
~Lueke, stuggled with his first cup o’ coffee but, was a Triple-A All Star
Looking forward to the M’s series in the Bronx!
Feel free to root for my M’s in their 6 games vs. the Jays and the Sox, prior to that
Good outcome for the Yankees.
Buster certainly looks happy.
Hopefully a pyrrhic victory for the Sox and a deflating defeat for the Rays. Yankees need to take advantage.
NO THANKS.
I hope this stays a rumor. I have to go with the old saying.. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
‘The Rockies have been in contact with the Yankees and a few other teams regarding Jimenez, according to Sports Illustrated’s Jon Heyman. Several other media outlets have reported that the Yankees, among others, have sent scouts to watch the ace pitcher recently’.
Spin:
No specific talks have been released, and you can bet the Rockies would be pitting several teams against one another if they did decide to trade such a big name, which is no sure thing considering Colorado isn’t out of the playoff chase yet. If the Yankees were a potential suitor, we’re going to surmise the name ‘Jesus Montero’ is going to come up in most of those talks.
Rotowire.com
===============
All speculative hogwash.
Ubaldo vs. Adrian Gonzalez (32 AB’s, more than any other Red Sox as most have not seen him)
.154 BAA
http://www.baseball-reference......ubmitter=1
For the hell of it . . I was just checking out some video on Ubaldo … Damn . throws 96 on a regualr basis with nasty movement . Slider is sick. His curve is ok.
I’d have to sleep on it . . but i’d strongly consider giving Montero PLUS a few others including a Killer B or Nova.
Pitching wins !
Ubaldo has the stuff to be a top 5 pitcher in baseball…..if the Yanks make a deal for him then they have to have a lot of confidence that getting him out of the thin air would allow him to be just that.
Im undecided as to whether Id deal Montero for him……I think a lot depends on his they really evaluate him.and what their plans are to upgrade the offense in other ways would be in the coming years……because they are going to need to add to it as the core continues to age.
At least the Red Sox softened the Rays pen up last night. Yanks need good AJ to show up tonight and take advantage and get this first game. Pitching matchups are pretty tough in this series and taking this first one would be big (Colon and Garcia against Hellickson and Price)…..and then CC vs Shields again for the finale.
Bret The Hitman July 18th, 2011 at 12:16 am
Yankees have not denied Heyman’s characterization of the Yankees response to Colorado’s demands where he said that they were willing to part with Montero.
We’ll see if they deny it tomorrow.
I highly doubt it.
————————————————————————————————————————-
They haven’t acknowledged it, either. Just like always. If fact, they haven’t said anything about any player. What’s your point?
One way or another I think the next 2 weeks will determine if Montero remains a Yankee or not. If the trade deadline passes and he’s not dealt then I think he’s called up shortly after and the “prospect ” label comes off. I guess they could still trade him this winter but my guess is that its now or never……and Im leaning towards wanting it to be never.
The pitching match ups are always tough against the Rays. They are missing Niemann who pitched eight two hit innings last night.
I haven’t seen enough of Jiminez to make any informed opinion, but he has a rather odd delivery and less than ace stats. I would give up Montero since I see him as likely position less on the Yankees. I would hate to give up Nova, but would, I think. The Bs seem too much to add.
GB,
Just for fun….what’s you’re max offer for Ubaldo? If you could choose between a deal frontlined by Montero or Betances/Banuelos which would you choose? Do you think he would be a difference maker out of the high altitude?
Good morning-
Ubaldo Jimenez next pitches against Brandon Beachy and the Braves at Coors on Tuesday night. Will scouts be able to get a good read on him if he pitches to his 2011 norm at home? The most strikeouts he’s had in the last 5 games pitched at home are 5.
Adrian Gonzalez, the best left-handed hitting 1st baseman in alll of baseball was gotten for a pittance. Do you trade 2 of your most valuable pieces for Ubaldo Jimenez?
Do the Dodgers now become interested in these Yankee stars of the future, and offer Clayton Kershaw if the Yankees will also take Rafael Furcal to unload salary?
Will a rotation of Jimenez and CC+AJ,Hughes and Colon be enough to challenge for #28 against the likes of the pitching staffs of Philly, Atlanta and the Giants, and perhaps the Cardinals if they get another top flight starter for Rasmus?
I’m not “all in” on this trade. Not convinced it’s worth it unless the oddsmakers make us the favorites to “go all the way!”
It would be tough to see Montero go to Coors and tear it up…..if the Rocks would do a deal with Montero and Nova being the primary pieces then that’s a tough choice to make IMO.
Blake, to be honest, I don’t want him. It will remove all of the top level pitching insurance NY has, plus a bat that is desperately needed who also happens to be a catcher. I’m just not that infatuated with Jiminez. Something about him that doesn’t set easy, and it has nothing to do with hugging prospects. I’m looking beyond this year.
The pitching match ups are always tough against the Rays. They are missing Niemann who pitched eight two hit innings last night.
—————————-
austinmac-
Jeff Niemann, he of the 4.53 ERA at at the ASB als shut down the Yankees in his last start. We face 23 yo rghty Alex Cobb tonight. Know nothing about him but attached his recent stats:
http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player....._id=502171
Happy Birthday to El Nino.
If the Rockies want near or major league ready players and want a 1st baseman,
then its Vazquez+Noesi+Joseph+Romine+A player for Jimenez+Wiggington+rookie left handed reliever Matt Reynolds who can actually get righties out!!!
Dowd you waited too long and that’s my final offer!!!
Happy Birthday to El Nino.
—————————-
Erin-WIEN??
signed Clueless, aka Yankee Trader
GB,
Fair enough…..I don’t think Cashman would do a deal that would remove Montero and all the high end pitching anyway though…..for something to happen the price would have to come off that.
The Yankees would be wise to put this deal (Ubaldo Jimenez) on the back back burner until the offseason. They need to spend more time scouting Jimenez to assess out if he can excel in the AL East. I’d hate to see the Yankees reproduce the mistake they made in 2004 whan they brought Javier Vazquez to the Bronx. In this case a Vazquez-like mistake would be more costly in prospects.
Will a rotation of Jimenez and CC+AJ,Hughes and Colon be enough to challenge for #28 against the likes of the pitching staffs of Philly, Atlanta and the Giants, and perhaps the Cardinals if they get another top flight starter for Rasmus?
Asked this earlier. Any thoughts?
I keep reading pitching wins and we can’t have enough pitching. I guess Rays and Mariners might think otherwise. We need a bat more than another pitcher.
Many people here are just too impatient and quick to denigrate Colon and Garcia after 1 bad outing by Garcia and coming off DL by Colon.
I see no one could answer my question last night about the last Cashman trade we heard about through rumors prior to it occurring. I continue to think something else entirely may happen. Cash always flies under the radar.
I keep reading pitching wins and we can’t have enough pitching. I guess Rays and Mariners might think otherwise. We need a bat more than another pitcher.
————————————-
And that bat might just be………………………………………Jesus Montero
Morning.
Are we there yet on Ubaldo ?
YT-
What do you think ?
Bojo –
I disagree respectfully.. I don’t think our offense is the problem. We’ve scored the most runs in the league . Could we use another bat off the bench .. . no doubt about it . The major problem with the yanks offense is there consistency .
When all is said and done the Yankees will probably trade with the Rockies, but it will be for Ty Wiggington and the remainder of his 4M salary this year!
New Post ! —– >
keep reading pitching wins and we can’t have enough pitching. I guess Rays and Mariners might think otherwise. We need a bat more than another pitcher.
————————————-
And that bat might just be………………………………………Jesus Montero
=================================================
There is no indication from the way that Montero is hitting in Scranton that his bat is ready to help the Yankees at this time. I’d rather have Ty Wiggington right now than Jesus.
New Post: Yankees on the run heading into Tampa
MTU, having watched Ubaldo often while I lived in Denver, I’d have no problem him coming to NY. I’d only give up 2 A’s at the most though. Was going to go see the Yanks while they were in Toronto, but I only made it this far into Canada.
https://picasaweb.google.com/105244848673673377679/AGreatDayOff?authkey=Gv1sRgCNGt5bXZjYTYcw
MTU-
Good morning. I made a fair offer for Jimenez earlier. If A-Gone was obtained for next to NADA, and there’s a player I would have given up Montero for, then the following trade should satisfy Dowd.
If the Rockies want near or major league ready players and want a 1st baseman,
then its Vazquez+Noesi+Joseph+Romine+A player for Jimenez+Wiggington+rookie left handed reliever Matt Reynolds who can actually get righties out!!!
Dowd you waited too long and that’s my final offer!!!
I’ve said this before.
Have seen U-Jim pitch many times because I get the Rox feed.
By the way, I have also seen him interviewed several times.
Don’t believe what the rumor mill says about him being a malcontent
or anything of the sort. he is a first class young Man.
As far as his pitching goes IMO he can be world class.
Last season for approx. the whole 1st half his ERA was under 1.00
Not under 2 or 3 but under 1.
He can hit close to 100 on the gun with absolutely sick movement.
Think verlander movement.
His curve is wicked as is most of his 2ndary stuff.
The only thing that is of some concern is that he’s a big boy and he has a long delivery which sometimes gets a bit out of whack.
Dellin Betances would be lucky to reach the cieling that U-jim has already achieved.
A rotation of CC, U-Jim, Hughes, etc. is among the best in the buisness
and can match up with anyone.
I doubt the Yankees are willing to make the sacrifice they might need to
but the more I thought about it the more I hope they will.
Yt-
That has no chance. The Rox have every right to demand 1st class talent for a young stud like U-jim.
It would probably would take 2 A’s +. If they could get him for Montero, Nova, + you do that in a heartbeat.
That probaly wouldn’t be enough.
It sounds to me like you haven’t seen U-Jim at his best.
By the way, the A-gon thing was an inside job IMO.
The Pads got screwed. O’dowd isn’ that stupid.
Somebody take a look at the Boston top five, then Reddick is at 320 and Crawford is coming back. Tell me about the Yankee offense in comparison. How many quality at bats have we seen from Jeter, Teix, Cano, Posada, Martin lately?
You have Gardner, Granderson and maybe Swisher if he’s not swinging out of his shorts, das it
The Yankees need Montero up now. Even if he struggles it’s a shot in the arm. They can’t afford to have past Glory take up at bats. So Montero DHs, so be it
Pat M said it the other night – They miss the Damon and Matsui at bats.
The Yankee offense this year is offensive.
The Yankees should not even consider giving up both Montero and one of their two “untouchable” pitchers (Betances and Banuelos) for Jimenez. The Rockies are marketing him as a Cliff Lee-type ace, which he is not. He is not even close to that level. The guy had a great first half of the season LAST year. Second half? Not so much, and this year he has underwhelmed, to say the least. I don’t know if I’d even give up ONE of those big three for him, let alone two. Too many questions about this guy, not the least of which is his going from the NL to the AL East.
Hey Bo — Reddick was at .400 like four days ago. You’ve got J.D. Drew, Saltalamacchia or Varitek, Scutaro… and Crawford has hardly impressed anyone this year.
I agree the Yanks offense is way too inconsistent. But the bottom of the Red Sox lineup has a lot of questions/holes too.