Girardi sets rotation (sort of); opens competition (kinda)
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jul 27, 2011 
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The Yankees rotation is more or less set for the weekend.
Friday: A.J. Burnett
Saturday: Bartolo Colon and TBA
Sunday: Freddy Garcia
Girardi said he’s not ready to announce the other starter of the double header, but he said the media should feel free to draw our own conclusions from Girardi’s comments that Ivan Nova is healthy and came through a simulated game with no problem. He basically announced Nova as a Saturday starter, without actually making the move official.
Then he said this…
Asked whether Nova’s return could start a competition between Nova and Phil Hughes for a spot in the big league rotation, Girardi’s answer was yes, then it was no.
“There could be,” he said. “I’m not going to say that there will be, but we want our guys to compete all the time. We want guys to throw the ball well and earn their spots every time. As far as saying there’s a competition for Phil Hughes’ next start, I’m not saying that.”
Hughes embraced the idea.
“That’s how it always is,” he said. “That’s how I look at it. You know, if I go out there every time and am not good, there’s obviously going to be consequences from that, so that’s nothing new. I know I have to go out and pitch well, and today was certainly a lot better than last time. And I’ll try to work on some things and build off this outing.”
Hmm, based on Joe not saying “No”, I’d say there’s a real competition.
If Betances + Hughes/Nova + Romine is Cash’s top offer, the Rox are likely keeping Ubaldo. He’s worth more than that. 148 ERA+
C’mon now.
Friday: A.J. Burnett
Saturday: Bartolo Colon and Clayton Kershaw
Sunday: Freddy Garcia
…. Then I woke up
Decent chance that neither Hughes or Nova are in the rotation come Monday.
You woke up dreaming about Freddy Garcia? for shame…
Ace July 27th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
Felix vs Hughes is biggest mismatch of season. Hughes gave up 9 hits in 6. Sea hasn’t had 9 hits all week. He will get lit up vs a good team.
=======================================
Considering pitchers really don’t face each other but rather opposing offenses, I’m thinking last night’s match-up of of CC vs. M’s was a bigger mismatch
And, believe it or not, the M’s have had 76 hits since last Tuesday (not counting the 17 today)
Till we “meet” again Yank fans … one more series in Seattle in September!
Pat M, it was obvious that Phil was very flabby coming into camp – and the “suits” had every right to be pissed. It’s nothing personal, but I have a problem with players whose only job coming into camp is coming into camp in shape – I hated it when Damon and Abreu were overweight, when Joba was and when Phil was. I don’t think there is much holding the Yankees back from trading him except possibly a lack of suitors. He’d almost be total throw in at this point – a project that some team would take on with hopes of rehabilitating him.
Betsy
Hughes’ value is down but the guy is not a walking corpse.
He is far from just s throw in.
LGY,
You think Ubaldo will? Im thinking more and more that they are going to trade him…..just don’t know if the price will fall far enough for Cash.
Betsy…..The General Managers in baseball do not share your insights on Phil Hughes and his value…….That’s why you keep hearing Ivan Nova’s name being mentioned and not Phil Hughes’
s until I posted a possible scenario which of course you’ll run with until next Spring Training……I mentioned this stuff with great reservation as I just knew it would lead to 1 intelligent post to 9 ridiculous ones……However it was some insights from a guy who knows some folks in the game and there’s still remain some good smart Yankee baseball people hanging out…..Just some back door chatter and that’s all we every really get beyond the crap that is printed in the papers who are trying to sell it
Betsy, it wasn’t ao much a weight issue as much as it was his failing the expected conditioning tests……
LGY, he’s not anywhere close to a major part of a deal because he’s a real project……..and for the Rockies, he makes absolutely no sense.
Pat M,
Ubaldo in pinstrioes by Sunday…..yes or no?
Hughes thinks it was better than last time out. Was it because he was helped by his defense and facing a team who struck out 18 times last night? This kid should just stop making this kind of comments of building on this outing things bec. he was building from an outing since the season starts. He should have been preparing for the seasoon after the last season ends like getting in shape and more stronger. The thing that impressed the yankees when they drafted him was his head and attitude, I guess they were wrong too.
Pat M, isn’t that the same kind of thing?
I said last year that he’s really huge. He’s been 6’5 since HS, so obviously he’s just a big kid, but even a year or so ago, he had a build like the young Roger Clemens. Now he’s just really enormous on top – I have no idea if that has hurt him or not, but it hasn’t helped.
I don’t think the injuries in 2007 and 2008 helped him any, but neither do I think they caused the problems we are seeing now. What an odd and sort of sad situation, esp. if the Yankees have lost faith in him. He was pretty much the whole package…………
As usual – totally ridiculous, ill-informed, obsessive nonsensical Hughes garbage.
Blake
I think they add a starter. Hopefully Ubaldo or Danks. If they are calling on guys like Nolasco and Kuroda they are out there shopping and I don’t think they walk away empty handed.
Hughes for Pence? Yes or no?
I’m not going to get on Phil’s case for trying to put a positive spin on things. This is his career at stake – regardless of how we shmooze about it, he’s the one who is being hurt by his lack of development or even regression, not us. He’s the one who has to be wondering what’s happened. I’m sure when he was dominating the minors, or even after the game in TX in 2007, Phil expected that he’d be thriving by now. Now he’s at a point where his manager couldn’t even guarantee that he’d stay in the rotation…………
Captain Clutch July 27th, 2011 at 4:07 pm
Felix is sitting on the bench like it’s a play off game lol
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I didn’t see the game but, I love that he did that. Shows how much he’s behind his guys…
tweet from M’s reporter Shannon Drayer….
Thought it was very cool that Felix stayed in the dugout after he came out of the game. He told me it was the first time he has done that.
Betsy
I was at pitchers and catchers report and I went to several other workouts and Spring Training games. I saw Phil up close in person and he did not look very flabby or even flabby to me at all. You make this assumption based on some pictures that could have been taken at a bad angle and some video feeds from games and reporters who like to say things to get readers. Have you seen Phil in person this year to compare how he looked last year? I don’t think his weight has anything to do with velocity or arm strength or anything, if that was the case then Bartolo Colon and CC must just be smoke and mirror acts because they don’t look like the most fit guys to me.
I take Girardi’s waffling on Saturday’s 2nd starter as Cashman is working on a deal. In no way would I make Montero as the centerpiece in ANY deal. Cashman has several other scenarios he can use.
TYanks, I’m not going to get into this with you – you need to take this up with Cashman, who said Phil was overweight and sent him to a fat farm.
I think the White Sox will keep Danks and lock him up long term. Here’s why:
Kenny Williams just dumped 8 million on Teahan’s deal.
He will dump the 12 million remaining on Thornton’s deal because Thornton is the best lefty reliever available. It won’t be too difficult to move him.
Mark Buerhle’s 14 million comes off the books after 2011 as well.
Edwin Jackson’s 8.35 million are off the books.
Juan Pierre’s 8.5 million come off the books after 2011.
And it should be a snap of the fingers to move Quentin. That’s another 5 million off the books.
Grand total: 50 million bux.
108,
Come on……they should move Montero…….to the Bronx
List of our starters I trust to pitch a playoff game
1) CC
2)
3)
4)
5)
Bret,
I think they will try to keep Danks long term…..but that’s a 2 party decision…..hr may not want to stay in that crazyness.
Thought it was very cool that Felix stayed in the dugout after he came out of the game. He told me it was the first time he has done that.
—————————————————————————————————–
Yeah he was probably just imagining what it would feel like to pitch in the postseason.
Gee how nice of king Felix to join team in dugout.. Yippee ,, yuchhhh
@ Blake I wouldn’t be against that move
CompassRosy
Thought it was very cool that Felix stayed in the dugout after he came out of the game. He told me it was the first time he has done that.
————————————————————————————————————
Things like that will help this team stay together.
Good sign of leadership.
if that was the case then Bartolo Colon and CC must just be smoke and mirror acts because they don’t look like the most fit guys to me.
===========
Im sure its the pinstripes makes them look fat. Its an optical illusion.
No shame in losing to Felix, but I do feel badly for the Mariners’ losing streak.
It never reached its 18th birthday… never became a legal adult, never got to vote, to register for the draft, to go to cheesy 18-and-over clubs… poor losing streak. Truly, it died too young.
Betsy
I don’t care to take it up with Cashman because ultimately I just don’t care about Phil’s weight or velocity or position in the Yankees rotation. I was just trying to say that I saw him in person and he didn’t look fat to me.
Either you have it or you don’t ..
Fat or not… Ask the Babe or splendid splinter
Well said nick SF,
Like a fine first growth wine, a few more woulda helped it mature… Hah
SoS
I would imagine the pinstripes would be slimming, they are vertical stripes and on What not to Wear they always say those are the most slimming.
there’s nothing like a Yankees loss to one of the best pitchers in baseball to bring out all the complaints and criticisms, where were you idiots last night when CC was pitching a gem?
It always works like that on LoHud, the idiots complain when the Yankees fall behind early, declare the game ‘over’ with a 1 or 2 run deficit, scurry for their ratholes when the Yankees get ahead, and don’t come out again until the lose a game.
How pathetic, go play your video games and leave the real games to people who have a clue.
thanks for the info pat m. i think a few posters on here wondered the same thing out loud. wonder if he just had too much fun being a millionaire in socal. ask some of those pool girls of yours if they see him at the club.
in that case, i am sure he’s pretty embarrassed and frustrated about his performance. hopefully he’ll work out like a maniac this off season and be a monster next year. this year will just have to be a learning process, if the suits can tolerate it. if not, he blew a chance to be a pinstripe legend
Send the Californian kid to Oakland in a package for Gio
I don’t think he will be traded.
I do think the Yankees are working furiously to keep Nova out of that trade package so they can swing him for an OF upgrade.
I would imagine the pinstripes would be slimming, they are vertical stripes and on What not to Wear they always say those are the most slimming.
=========
Then its time to go horizontal and stop trying to hide it. We Yankees dont discriminate.
no matter what the yanks do at the deadline they will only have 1 stud starter for the playoffs unless they get king felix.
ubaldo is not a for sure and the way people here undervalue yankee prospects is insane.. daniel mccutcheon, clippard, karstens, all doing real well for other teams. yankee fans considered al lthese guys nothings……..we trade young guys for middling players like they are disposable….
gio gonzalez is stud worth making a bigtime offer, he is 25, throws hard, and hit and miss stuff….
Why cant Colon(if healthy) be one of the stud pitchers? His stuff is just as good as any #2 out there.
hughes will be erratic and underachieve until he gets some serious tough love.
he’s been babied and given a pass his whole time with the yankees. at one point he may have deserved it. not any more.
the only thing he’s consistant about hughes is getting weird injuries and always working on a new variation of some pitch that will make him really good.
he’s in my dog house until he does something over an extended period to prove he’s the guy the yankees have bent over backwards to develop.
i’d tell him he has three starts. 2 out of three better be good or triple a is his next stop.
he needs this kind of simulated pressure to get the best out of him. he’s had twice as many chances as anyone else would if they didn’t have all the hype.
times up. pitch well or pitch in scranton
Were there any thoughts posted on why Kenny Williams didn’t just deal directly with the Cardinals for Colby Rasmus in exchange for Edwin Jackson?
Ubaldo Jimenez had a spectacular year last year, but throw that out and he’s 37-37, including 6-9, 4.20 this year. Plus, it’s not like he’s a kid, like Banuelos, Betances, etc. – he’s 27.
Even if you allow for pitching at Coors, and give him his due for a career 8.2 SO/9, don’t forget you’d be asking him to switch leagues – in the middle of a pennant race!
I’ll pass.
blake July 27th, 2011 at 6:02 pm
108,
Come on……they should move Montero…….to the Bronx
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I agree 100%. Use Romine as part of a deal and make up the difference with a pitcher not prominently figuring in Yankee plans. Mark Newman and Billy Eppler can advise Cashman who is expendable.
Randy-
You should really learn not to mince your words. You gotta stop holding back.
Zach Wheeler for Beltran. He’s a high A prospect. What equivalent do the Yankees have to Wheeler that would snag us a bat?
He tinkers too much, but the Yankees have encouraged him apparently to do that…….
Hughes: “That’s how I look at it. You know, if I go out there every time and am not good, there’s obviously going to be consequences from that, so that’s nothing new.”
MTU-
Randy is just reiterating what Hughes already knows.
I give Hughes a grade today of “better, but no cigar.”
blake-
i would very much like to see montero replace cervelli asap.
it’s an easy move to undo if it doesn’t work.
if it works the yankees catch lightening in a bottle and have the new big bat they need.
if it doesn’t, montero gets to know what he needs to work on back at scranton.
ether way something good comes out of it.
pull the trigger brian!!! do it !!
Trader,
The Cardinals would not take on Teahan’s 8 million. That’s where Toronto took advantage. Kenny Williams is trimming payroll to the point where he’s just a couple moves away from dumping 50 million dollars off the books after 2011.
Maybe he wants some of that money to blow away John Danks with a commitment that Danks just can’t refuse.
The Yanks seem to have plenty of excuses for Hughes. He is a big boy now and it’s time for him to produce or Nova should take his spot. The Yanks can’t ignore the fact that after the 1st inning his stuff really went downhill and his velocity went down inning by inning. Everyone wants to see him pitch well but for some reason the fastball isn’t there and he doesn’t have secondary pitches to go. His great starts were when he had that great swing and miss fastball and he doesn’t have that now and he is going to struggle without it.
I mentioned before that Cashman is a master at maintaing interest in certain players, even if not really interested, in order to have them stay with their team that’s going nowhere, or keep them in the NL, away from the Yankees main competition.
Could this be the case with Jimenez, not totally willing to ship them the farm, but would be just as happy if he stayed in Colorado, where he would not be a factor in the playoffs or stay in the NL going to the Reds?
Thoughts?
Ugh, why can’t there be a quality starting pitcher on the trading block?!
What a bummer.
If only Cashman could pry John Danks from Chicago.
Randy,
Seriously…..he’s about to get hot…..let him get some of those hits in NY.
Trader,
Sandy did a great job with Beltran…..I never thought he’d get a top level guy for him and he did. The Yanks would have never matched that offer so Im cool with that deal…….however I think they very easily could have jumped in on Rasmus and competed with the offers for him……I think that may have been a golden opportunity missed for a lot of clubs. I mentioned Hughes for Pence earlier? Id consider that……don’t know if Houston would or not……probably would take more.
Trader,
I think the fact that the Yankees removed Banuelos from the table but not Montero means they are more than willing to trade Montero for a pitcher. The Red Sox interest in Jimenez is another giveaway. They know they don’t have the chips to acquire him. They know the Yankees do and are motivated.
Hughes has a plus fastball,not a plus,plus one,from what i have read.
He used to have a great curveball,not so anymore.
Bottom line,he has a fastball & the rest of his pitches are not that good.
He has tro get 2 other pitches working,in addition to his fastball.
He is inching towards 26 years old.
If i am cashman,hughes is available in a trade immediately.
He is not helping at all,matter of fact he is hurting the team.
Trade hughes,bring up nova,montero/romine,if montero gets traded.
Also,the question i have about montero is,why did we hear that montero was not an option to be brough up,now & or very recently???
Captain Clutch,
Hughes pitched pretty well today, velocity or not. He was simply outpitched by some guy named Felix Hernandez.
He had a Quality Start, no? What more do you expect from him? Consistency? That’s certainly fair, but last I checked he’s only made 2 or 3 starts since returning.
Just got in from work and see Phil gave up 2 runs and 9 hits in 6 innings. Not sure what to think about that. Poor offensive team. Bullpen blew it. Grandersons miscue in CF cost some runs. Lost another day game at the Stadium to a team on a 17 game losing streak. So much for CC’s domination last night. Hughes is obviously not the answer. Bullpen maybe?
Jimenez is a disaster waiting to happen for whatever team trades for him.
D-I-S-A-S-T-E-R.
YT-
I am beginning to think that Hughes arm injury was worse than reported.
Otherwise I am at a loss to explain what I am seeing.
His FB lacks life, and his command, which has always been his hallmark, is still way off.
He is basically a 2 pitch pitcher right now with neither of the 2 being all that exceptional.
The cutter is fairly useless IMO, and the CU needs work.
I’m not seeing a lot of progress from start to start. I’m saddened by that.
IMO Nova is the better pitcher right now.
All I can say is that I hope he finds it. I now have my doubts. I didn’t before.
I may have been completely wrong about what to expect. I must admit that.
I wanted both young Men to succeed and stay in PS for a long time.
Not seeing that as quite as likely now.
Bret-
Thanks. I saw your earlier list of WS contracts. Would he be more inclined to trade the larger contract of Gavin Floyd 11:$5M, 12:$7M, 13:$9.5M club option
than John Danks. Any interest in Floyd in pinstripes?
Alex Rios is so bad that he is now a bench player from what I’ve heard.What an albatross of a contract— 11:$12M, 12:$12M, 13:$12.5M, 14:$12.5M, 15:$13.5M club option ($1M buyout)
For all of you wanting to deal Hughes, don’t make the mistake of thinking his value is particularly high right now. Its probably never been lower.
Yankee Trader says:
July 27, 2011 at 6:32 pm
Zach Wheeler for Beltran. He’s a high A prospect. What equivalent do the Yankees have to Wheeler that would snag us a bat?
—
Brett Marshall and Zoilo Almonte
Yankee Trader,
I’d much rather have Danks than Floyd, I’ll say that much.
I think Williams lumped Danks in with Floyd to open dialogue with teams that need pitching. I think his real motive is to move Floyd’s contract and free up even more money for the rest of the roster.
He is doing a good job of executing a plan that circumvents his issues with some heavy dead weight, namely Peavy, Rios and Dunn.
I would not be interested in Gavin Floyd at all.
Trying to look at Hughes objectively…..his line wasn’t bad but if you watched him throw he just isn’t right. He’s not the same guy as even the 2nd half of last year……stuff is flat,.trademark fastball command is spotty, and he just seems unsure of himself……like a guy that really doesn’t know what his plan is to attack the hitters.
I think its getting close to time to send him down for some minor league time to work on things and for him to get an identity as a pitcher again…..figure out a series of pitches that he can throw and a gamepan to attack with. Still a lot of talent there but he’s clearly lost his way right now.
I agree with randy, Jerkface, and LGY. Bring up Montero.
But there’s a reason he hasn’t been brought up already. Or multiple reasons. If he makes it past the trade deadline and they still don’t bring him up… then you really have to wonder why.
Don’t believe the bs that the rs don’t have the prospects to get jimenez.
It might or might not be true,but til we know,we can’t be sure.
Another thing,i would not trade any big prospects for jimenez,just dson’t trust why they are trading a young,cheap pitcher & he jumps to the al,no thanks.
I would deal hughes & a few scrap prospects for him,no montero,no romine,no banuelos,no betances,no sanchez,etc…
With Beltran and Rasmus gone, the top 2 bats on the market are…
Carlos Quentin and Melky Cabrera.
IMO Nova is the better pitcher right now.
——————————-
MTU-
I agree. In fact Nova’s clone Noesi is too!
NYY fan in NH July 27th, 2011 at 6:47 pm
Just got in from work and see Phil gave up 2 runs and 9 hits in 6 innings. Not sure what to think about that.
———————————-
Think lucky there weren’t more runs as Gardner saved his a** with a throw to the plate to get the runner rounding third.
SI_JonHeyman 27 mins #stlcards, which just beefed up pen, is still trying for heath bell, too. #rangers also in that mix. #tradedeadline
Future be darned in St Louis.
red sox want jiminez and will further pilfer there minor leagues, I say have at it.
on boston jimenez is there 3rd starter and he will make a marginal difference especially if the crook is healthy.
on the yanks he is there 2nd starter so more important to the yanks but again the asking price sounds way to expensive….
Blake-
Maybe he gets the Halladay treatment ?
Do the Yankees really bother with that sort of thing ?
If he needs a a serious rework I would think they’d move him instead.
Don’t know how they can because his value has to be way down.
It’s an object lesson in why prospects are prospects, and just how hard it is to turn even the best of them into quality, durable ML starters.
Failure to reach the ceiling, injuries, over projection, etc. take their toll.
He had a Quality Start, no?
————–
If he was pitching against the Rangers or Sox it was quality not against one of the worst offenses in baseball. 9 hits in 6 innings. More 0-2 hits, 2 outs and couldn’t put guys away. If it wasn’t for a guy getting thrown out at the plate it would of been worse. His stuff is average at best and his fastball velocity got worse every inning. It wasn’t good enough to say that it was a positive or that he is building on every start.
Cervelli is a mediocre, journeyman backup catcher at best. If Montero was capable of catching in the show, he would be here. There is a reason he’s not. Trade coming or he isn’t performing well enough.
tyanksfan36 July 27th, 2011 at 6:51 pm
Yankee Trader says:
July 27, 2011 at 6:32 pm
Zach Wheeler for Beltran. He’s a high A prospect. What equivalent do the Yankees have to Wheeler that would snag us a bat?
—
Brett Marshall and Zoilo Almonte
———————
Thanks Ty-
Would you include them in a trade for a good bat?
If they dealt Phil Hughes to the Pirates, could he outpitch the legend Jeff Karstens?
I’m thinking no…
It’s a crazy thought but it’s possible that Jeff Karstens could end up with the more successful major league career than Phil Hughes.
MTU,
I really don’t know….maybe not…..but he’s just not right at the moment. He needs the 92-95 velo or his assortment of pitches really isn’t good enough at the big league level. He needs some sort of back up plan if he doesn’t have that…..be it a 2 seam, a split, a slider …..something. the curve is still too slow……Garcia’s curveball velo is about the same as Hughes
SF has to pray really hard that Beltran doesn’t get hurt again and Toronto better find somebody to help Rasmus grow up.
9 hits/1 walk in 6 innings is a whip of 1.667
Also only 3 k,not good at all.
Hughes has not pitched well at all in a long time.
Once in a while he has a decent game,but you never see a 7 inning/4 hit shutout.
Imo he has an injury & or confidence issues & is going to lose his job,very soon.
In the playoffs,he is the last option to start,as of now.
Yankees have to pray really hard that Jorge Posada will come close to hitting the ball in he playoffs. Let’s be honest. Missing out on Beltran and Rasmus stings. We’re left with Quentin, Melky or Posada.
Pick your poison.
If Jimenez is the best option they have to trade for, the Yankees should stand pat and roll the dice with what they have.
If they have a positive take away in the sense that Nova learns to pitch down the stretch and is good to go for next season, then great. Bottom line: the Yankees WILL NOT win the World Series with their current rotation. Period. And that is okay, albeit disappointing.
Blake-
You were mentioning Pence. Not sure from what I heard on XM radio that they want to move him now Arb eligible-correct? They would love to unload the inconsistent Wandy Rodriguez and this burdensome contract:11:$7M, 12:$10M, 13:$13M, 14:$13M club option ($2.5M buyout)
IF the Astros picked up 1/2 of the remainder of the contract would anyone here have any interest if the deal was one of Phelps/Warren/Mitchell?
I don’t think i would. Rodriguez had some elbow inflammation issues this year as well as before I believe.
Blake-
I sometimes think Hughes is a victim of his own experimentation, and extremely bad luck with his health.
I had always heard that Phil’s mechanics were near perfect and he winds up with a sore arm ?
Too weird.
Do you think they boosted his innings too much last season ? Could that have caused this ?
Who the hell knows. All I know is what Yogi said, It’s getting late early for Hughes.
It’s really hard to fathom.
If you’re still really optimistic maybe you believe he bounces back next season ?
Gavin Floyd is a good pitcher.
Perfectly competent option for a 3rd or 4th start in the playoffs.
Basically, an upgrade over Garcia in terms of comfort against a playoff offense, and an option in the long term.
I like Floyd a lot.
Despite what the Yankees are floating in the media, I don’t think the owners are prepared to not win the world series with their current rotation. I don’t think disappointment is an option for them.
Bret,
What makes you think we need to trade for a bat?
We get ARod back in a few weeks or we can bring up Montero to DH.
Either way, if the Yankees make a move for a DH, which is not necessary IMHO, then that probably spells the end of Posada’s career as a Yankee.
Also, there’s no reason to write off Phil yet, for this year or into the future.
He didn’t get hit hard today.
He’s given up 2 runs in 3 of the 4 starts he’s made since coming back.
Has he been overwhelming? No. But let’s please not act like Ivan Nova was pitching like the second coming when he was up here. The majority of his starts were very much like the ones that Hughes is making right now. He had a 51/37 K to BB ratio and almost 1.50 WHIP in his own right.
Let’s be real here. Phil Hughes is a victim of his own expectations. Ivan Nova is not an upgrade over him, not now and not in the future.
Posada’s career as a Yankee should end by July 31st.
MaineYankee July 27th, 2011 at 6:05 pm
Things like that will help this team stay together.
Good sign of leadership.
====================================
Exactly right, MaineYankee.
Baby steps for mere babes since, compared to teams like the Yanks, the Mariners are mere babes at this whole professional baseball deal
Yankee Trader says:
July 27, 2011 at 7:00 pm
tyanksfan36 July 27th, 2011 at 6:51 pm
Yankee Trader says:
July 27, 2011 at 6:32 pm
Zach Wheeler for Beltran. He’s a high A prospect. What equivalent do the Yankees have to Wheeler that would snag us a bat?
—
Brett Marshall and Zoilo Almonte
———————
Thanks Ty-
Would you include them in a trade for a good bat?
—
Well I’m quite partial to them both but if trading them meant that either would get a chance they wouldn’t get here, I would do it but I don’t think there is anyone out there that’s worth them and the others that would be included.
Bret,
I definitely agree that ownership would be disappointed if they didn’t win it all, but I also think they are fully aware that their chances of doing so decrease significantly if they don’t go out and get a quality SP to back up Sabathia.
And they’ll definitely be fluffers for the media regardlesss.
We’re left with Quentin, Melky or Posada.
Pick your poison.
————————
Bret-
There’s also Francoeur, Willingham, Wiggington, Crisp, DeJesus, BJ Upton, Byrd, Reed Johnson, Soriano,Spillgorghs, Bourn,Ludwick and possibly Pence, Span and Cuddyer. All have been mentioned.
Trader,
I don’t think Wandy is much of an upgrade over what they have and he’s like 32. I coukd see the Sox sniffing around him if the prospect price is really low. I don’t know what the Stros would ask for Pence but he’s a good player…..not a great one but he plays hard and fans would like him I think.
MtU,
I believe Hughes can still be really good…..I just think.time is about out for this year and they need to get him in a settig where he can figure things out and reinvent himself a little…..
Trader,
Quentin and Melky are clear upgrades over Posada. The other guys suck or they don’t fit.
Soriano’s contract is horrible.
Pence and Cuddyer have been pulled off the market.
Upton will not be traded within the AL East.
DeJesus would be a 4th OF and barely an upgrade over Posada unless he turns around his season.
Is there any rumors of the Yankees going after a bat?
Last week, Cashman said Beltran wasn’t a fit, but is there anything else. Because if not, then they may want to just continue with Posada at DH. It looks like Girardi is trying to give him more field playing time ala Teix getting 2 days off at 1B in the past week.
Cashman saying that he will only bring up Montero if he will catch everyday makes no sense. There is never going to be a perfect time to bring him up if that is what he is waiting for. Martin is going to be the everyday catcher this year and will be here next year also. Cashman said that he doesn’t want Montero to DH but I think that has more to do with they can’t take playing time away from Posada because he will throw another hissy fit. If they don’t bring him up after the trade deadline then it’s obvious that he is just trade bait. It doesn’t seem like there are any good reasons why he isn’t up here especially with Posada hitting as poorly as he has been. He could catch 3 days a week and DH the other days.
MTU….The disturbing thing today for me was how many time Martin had to move his mitt because Hughes just kept missing…..Ron Hughes just turned 25 I believe…….SJ brought up a good point, if let’s say the Yanks are in heavy talks with Colorado and they want Nova & Noesi in the package, does Cashman offer up Hughes instead ???? Do you really give up on him ???
It’s very warm and fuzzy that King Felix stayed in the dugout to the end of the game today. But isn’t it just a little interesting that in all the years he’s been with the Mariners this is the FIRST time he did so?
Leadership does not jump to my mind.
If Im the Rockies I probably would rather have Nova and Noesi than Hughes…..he just doesn’t fit in that park the way he currently pitches.
GreenBeret7 July 27th, 2011 at 7:04 pm
SF has to pray really hard that Beltran doesn’t get hurt again and Toronto better find somebody to help Rasmus grow up.
——————————
I heard Rasmus’ father was the bigger problem with the Cardinals.
“Still, Tony Rasmus believes his son has encountered resistance because of his tag as ‘[Jeff] Luhnow’s boy,’ a derisive label due to the chasm that grew between Luhnow, eventually appointed the Cardinals’ vice-president of scouting and player development, and former general manager Walt Jocketty. Even after Jocketty’s ouster in October 2007, Rasmus felt like a clubhouse outcast as a rookie, when he commanded playing time previously assigned to Rick Ankiel, Chris Duncan and Ryan Ludwick. At least one player’s family refused to acknowledge Rasmus’ parents in the family section during games…
Tony Rasmus on Friday confirmed that Colby, not his agent, had made the requests out of frustration with [manager Tony] La Russa,” according to St. Louis Post-Dispatch’s Joe Strauss.
That’s the “first time” Felix has ever stayed in the dugout after leaving the game?
Is that serious?
He’s actually getting commended for that?
Pat M -
It seems to me that you have to take into consideration the “year after” effect. Meaning, last year was Hughes’ first year going to a high innings-pitched count. The great Verlander seemed to suffer the same fate. I’m not saying Hughes will ever be a Verlander, but shouldn’t the Yankees at least give Hughes one year to show it could be that phenomenon?
I don’t think Hughes for Jimenez is a good deal. Maybe straight up, but not if it includes anyone else.
I don’t trust Jimenez in the AL East. And I’m not ready to give up on Hughes.
Also, I don’t want to hear of any trade that includes BOTH Montero AND Romine. That would be NUTS.
I don’t think the Yankees will give up on Hughes. But I do think that what Nova does in the second game of the DH will be something the Yankees will be looking at closely.
How long does the 3-0 Boston deficit last?
Pat M.-
I agree. His command was still really off. That was always taken for granted with Phil.
The velocity is adequate. The life is still largely missing but could possibly come around.
I’m really puzzled by it all Pat. It’s like everything has regressed.
I’m really thinking that injury was way worse than reported.
Kind of like what happened to Joba. It took him a a year and a half to regain most of his
former velo.
I wonder if this was caused as a result of jumping him up too much last season ?
It’s gotten late early for him. That’s for sure.
Phil’s FB is not close to being plus anymore, Ron – and even if it was, it’s hard to make a living as a starter with basically one pitch.
Just have Canada deny Rasmus’ father a visa.
Rasmus has a clean slate now. If gets messed up again, then it’s obvious it was more him than LaRussa.
But his father sounds like a meddler. Why is there no muzzle on him? I’ve never seen such a vocal parent in baseball. (besides Ozzie, that is!)
Well it took one batter for Boston to get on the board. BTW when did Ellsbury turn into Jose Bautista?
Trader, the guy is 24 years old and still allows his daddy to run his life? That’s a problem. Rasmus in on the 2nd of many teams if he doesn’t tell the old man to butt out of his career.
.SJ brought up a good point, if let’s say the Yanks are in heavy talks with Colorado and they want Nova & Noesi in the package, does Cashman offer up Hughes instead ???? Do you really give up on him ???
—————————————
Pat M–If Hughes goes to Coors his major league career could be over, trying to pitch in that ballpark. Hughes had that look of a “lost soul” in today’s game, so unsure of himself.
Triple,
That was the most frustrating part of yesterday’s game. KC would go up by 2 runs, give back 5. Go up by 2 again, lose it all.
Would you guys consider a 9-2 baseball score a rout? Or more of a blowout?
People sure give up on players awfully quickly here.
And they don’t take all factors into account.
m-
His Father was also his former coach I think ?
Maybe that is why.
Bret,
Unfortunately, Posada just ain’t getting it done anymore, so sadly it is about time we move on.
Having said that, I don’t think a big trade is necessary to fill a DH slot.
Blake, I agree, but even last year, Phil’s idea of a plan of attack was to throw 2 pitches – FB and cutter. Not much of a plan, unfortunately.
The Yankees are paying the price for putting him in the pen in 2009 because had he stayed in the rotation (or gone to start in AAA ) upon Wang’s return, he wouldn’t have had the innings issue in 2010. That said, I don’t know that it’s all to blame. Didn’t the Yankees also limit him in the minors to 80 pitches? Either way, he has no endurance whatsoever……….
“The velocity is adequate. The life is still largely missing but could possibly come around.”
The velocity is adequate with good command and at least one plus secondary offering…..but you can’t throw 91 mph 4 seamers with a lollypop curveball and a so so cutter and get guys out in the bigs unless you are pinpoint with you location.a
3-2. Well at least people have stopped saying we have a better offense then the Sox.
I don’t think trading Hughes for a pitcher of Jimenez’s caliber is ‘giving up on him’.
But I can see why they would be growing tired of his lack of progress or consistent pitching, mixed in with freaky random injuries and questionable conditioning.
At some point, Hughes can’t live off his 2006 Trenton prospect rankings… especially on a team like the Yankees that is always looking to put the best possible product out on the field.
I’d rather give up Hughes than one of the big 3, honestly.
m,
You couldn’t expect KC to win more then 1 but its frustrating to see KC jump out to these leads and they barely last an inning or 2
C’mon kc hold that lead ! Not confident they will and another slugfest will ensue…C’mon Brian make some deals to improve this team!
Phil WANTED to be in the pen.
Phil had the option to go to AAA and WANTED to stay on the ML team.
Stop blaming the Yankees for keeping him in the ‘pen.
That is not what is wrong with Phil Hughes.
MTU, 2007/2008 were a long time ago, so while 2007 was particularly bad (really severe leg injuries), I can’t even blame those injuries. I think Phil simply lacks the natural feel of pitches other than his FB – that’s why he can’t just pick them up again after not using them for awhile. The Yanks gave him permission a few years ago to throw the slider again, he tried it – the pitch wouldn’t come. The curve? He didn’t use it a lot upon his rehab from the 2007 injuries (FB was the most important thing to work on) and he didn’t use it a lot in the pen in 2009 – he lost it. He had a nice change in 2010 ST, refused to use it early in the season and it disappeared. He’s not a guy that can hold onto a pitch, it seems.
Blake-
Don’t you think I know that ?
Does Hughes,Noesi and someone else not named Montero or the B’s get it done for Ubaldo?
KC has some really bad starting pitching. Hopefully we can take advantage of that when the Yankees go to Kaufman in mid August.
Everyone, if the Yankees did trade Hughes, it’d take a lot more than just Hughes to get a guy like Jimenez.
Wandy has been mentioned? That guy is a bum and is Esteban Loaiza Part II waiting to happen. BUM.
Ellsbury’s homerun was a routine line drive foul in every other ballpark, and Pedroia’s was a Green Monster special. Regardless, it’s amazing how that offense is able to bury all their pitching issues. They are like the mid-2000′s Yankees, winning slugfest after slugfest.
MTU July 27th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
m-
His Father was also his former coach I think ?
Maybe that is why.
————————————————————————————————————————-
Mantle’s father coached and trained him, but, he didn’t tell Stengel when, where and how to play Mickey.
I’m inclined to want John Danks in the starting rotation. It never hurts to have another LH especially pitching at the Stadium. (see Andy Pettitte for reference)
Danks can hold the fort until Manny Banuelos is ready.
If Cashman cares to talk with GM Kenny Williams about expanding a deal to include Matt Thornton and / or Carlos Quentin ………. then go for it.
I couldn’t be upset if Phil Hughes were part of the package. Maybe pitching coach Don Cooper can make something out of Hughes the Yankees couldn’t.
John Danks lhp
1 year/$6M (2011)
1 year/$6M (2011)
re-signed by White Sox 1/18/11 (avoided arbitration)
1 year/$3.45M (2010)
re-signed by White Sox 1/19/10 (avoided arbitration)
1 year/$0.52M (2009)
re-signed by White Sox 2/24/09
1 year/$0.4M (2008)
re-signed by White Sox 2/27/08
1 year (2007)
acquired by White Sox in trade from Texas 12/06
contract purchased by White Sox 4/07
drafted by Texas 2003 (1-9) (Round Rock HS, TX)
$2.1M signing bonus
agent: CAA Sports (Jeff Berry) (previously Scott Boras)
ML service: 4.000
The other problem with Hughes is how his velocity declines, again today it did later in the game.
He has had a very very odd trajectory thus far. Just shows that projection based on physical build or perceived “pitching aptitude” is meaningless.
“Does Hughes,Noesi and someone else not named Montero or the B’s get it done for Ubaldo?”
If you add Romine and Warren, possibly. Maybe have to add a high ceiling low A guy too.
YT, Rockies won’t want him…………Any team trading for Hughes has to ask themselves why they would want to take them on when his own team has given up ? They know how much the Yanks loved (love?) Phil, so they would realize that if they are willing to trade him, they obviously felt he was not fixable for them.
GB-
I wasn’t defending the practice. Just saying why it might have occurred.
Of course he needs to stay out of it. But will he ? Seems to like to bud in, and as you said the kid either likes it, or doesn’t have the stones to tell his old Man to bud out.
“They are like the mid-2000?s Yankees, winning slugfest after slugfest.”
Except those Yankee teams didn’t have pitching, period. This Sox team doesn’t have healthy pitching at the moment.
Those teams couldn’t throw out Lester-Beckett-Buchholz in October.
Their offense is just sick though. We used to be like that in 09 and 07.
again delusional on jimenez value. you give up yankee prospects like the yare tissues…
romine will play in the majors for multiple years at cacher….
Does Hughes,Noesi and someone else not named Montero or the B’s get it done for Ubaldo?
————————————-
Why would the Rockies want Hughes and watch him implode in Coors?
Final answer-No that deal doesn’t do it!
Absolutely not – that package isn’t within sniffing distance of what it would take to get Jimenez
MTU,
Just reinforcing what you said.
Betsy,
I still don’t think the bullpen stint has anything to do with what’s going on now…….his stuff isn’t as good and his.location certainly isn’t as good and.that’s why he’s struggling so.much. x z. )
Didn’t Hughes go to that Arizona place to condition himself a couple of seasons ago? I don’t think Hughes is not dedicated.
No one know why he was not as conditioned at the beginning of this season. No one knows how he felt after his innings count was way up there last season.
No one KNOWS anything. It is all conjecture.
But for me it seems clear that Hughes is not a slacker and he is as clueless about what is not working as anyone else.
I think that part of the problem is we all became aware of Phil Hughes too early in his development. He is still young and he is still developing. I am more than willing to give him this year.
No one is a robot. And development is not linear.
So Phil lacks a natural feel for pitches. Okay.
The Yanks are really missing out on a top pitching coach. Somebody needs to e-mail Cashman that LoHud has the best anywhere. Nobody knows pitchers like Betsy. Nobody spots flaws like her. She doesn;t even have to see them pitch.
Blake, the innings thing didn’t help and I think being in the pen made him ultra-aggressive. I’m not saying it’s the main cause, just that it’s a contributing factor. The main factor is a player’s overall level of ability.
“They know how much the Yanks loved (love?) Phil, so they would realize that if they are willing to trade him, they obviously felt he was not fixable for them.”
Not necessarily. Teams also know the Yankees are desperate to win now, prefer proven veterans to unknown youngsters, and do not handle young pitching well or give them many chances.
Another team might see it as an opportunity to take advantage of the situation.
Villa Nova Ya…….I agree with you in entirely that the innings hangover effect from 2010 is playing a big role this season….His command and location are the most disturbing factor for me…..He might not be right until next spring…….It was suggested earlier by a very reliable source that he came to camp as if he never saw a stationary bike all winter……He like many pitchers need legs and maybe that plays part of his woes in 2011…..How’s the Shrimp Scampi ???
Yank1, that’s true. In any case, they won’t get much for him if they do trade him.
MTU July 27th, 2011 at 7:39 pm
GB-
I wasn’t defending the practice. Just saying why it might have occurred.
Of course he needs to stay out of it. But will he ? Seems to like to bud in, and as you said the kid either likes it, or doesn’t have the stones to tell his old Man to bud out
————————————————————————————————————————-
That’s why I said that he’d better keep his bags packed. Teams aren’t going to deal with that crap for ver long. In the end, it will hurt his bank account. So far, including the minors, he just hasn’t been that special.
I’m really surprised the Mets were able to get Wheeler. A top 50 prospect for a 2 month rental. The Phills are still better.
Harvey and Wheeler are going to look nice at the top of the rotation in 3 or so years.
Mantle’s father coached and trained him, but, he didn’t tell Stengel when, where and how to play Mickey.
——————————-
GB-
Times sure have changed.:)
————–
Betsy July 27th, 2011 at 7:38 pm
YT, Rockies won’t want him…………Any team trading for Hughes has to ask themselves why they would want to take them on when his own team has given up ?
——————–
You must have mixed me up with someone else. I just finished posting to Pat M that Hughes career would take a downward spiral if he had to pitch in Coors, a possible end to his career.
Wait – the bullpen made Phil ultra-aggressive and that’s a BAD thing????
And after being one of Phil’s biggest champions you are now questioning his overall ability?
Wow.
I’d rather give up Hughes than one of the big 3, honestly
———————
So would I it’s a no brainer imo
Hughes was never as good as the yanks said he was. They have done this with countless pitchers, he just happened to hang around longer than most. They did a great job hyping him as they do with pitchers they eventually trade and most fans believed it. The longer they wait the more his trade value decreases as he is further exposed.
That said I hope Nova throws lights out on Saturday 7/30.
Get my drift.
108,
Id love to have Danks I just doubt the White Sox are gonna trade him without a big offer.
YT, no I did not. I was agreeing with a previous post of yours where you asked why the Rockies would want to see him implode at Coors Field?
mick,
What other pitchers have they done this with the last 5 years?
GB-
Gotcha. That’s for sure. He isn’t his coach now. Or if he is he shouldn’t be.
Imagine if Lincecum’s Father did the same thing ? He taught him and then he bowed out.
Same with Robbies Dad. Off season is fine. That should be enough.
# GreenBeret7 July 27th, 2011 at 7:40 pm
The Yanks are really missing out on a top pitching coach. Somebody needs to e-mail Cashman that LoHud has the best anywhere. Nobody knows pitchers like Betsy. Nobody spots flaws like her. She doesn;t even have to see them pitch.
================================
In her former life she pitched for her little league team.
New thread—->
mick….in 2007 he was the top pitching prospect in baseball…….The guy has taken no hitters twice into the 7th inning and he just turned 25…..Betsy, do you have some pipeline into the Front Offices around the country as to what other clubs think of him ??? I understand it’s once again fashionable to rag on him but really …..
Pat M -
I’ll have to try the scampi next time I’m in town (hopefully not in the too distant future).
It does surprise me that Hughes didn’t keep in tip-top condition over the winter. Were there extenuating circumstances? Doesn’t sound like Hughes.
If the Yankees can stick with him, I’d bet he doesn’t let that happen again. I hope they do stick with him. THe ability he had (has?) doesn’t disappear overnight, does it? Can it? He seems like a talented and dedicated kid. Maybe he just took an off-season off not realizing the problems that might happen? If so, I’d bet he’s learned his lesson.
It doesn’t make sense to me to trade Hughes when his value might be at his lowest, or when team can take advantage of the Yankees. IF it’s Hughes for Jimenez straight up, maybe. But I think that it is a trade then, that amounts to a “change of scenery trade.”
Triple
Any pitcher that comes from their minors to the big leagues is supposed to be the next great thing.
Even Nova, Noesi to a certain extent.
Karstens, Clippard, the 3 B’s.
They don’t believe it, they always get traded.
I love how you guys call our prospects the “Big 3″. How many “Big 3s” are we going to have? Weren’t Hughes, Joba, and IPK once the “Big 3″?
When any of them actually do something at the major league level, call me. Otherwise, they are prospects and nothing more.
Pat M, give me a break……….We’re all just discussing the subject; You come here and we’re supposed to believe you have all this insider knowledge because you spoke to some supposedly reliable source (are you Mike Francesca?) who said that Hughes looked out of shape…..If you have a problem with me, take it up with Chad – I’m serious. Otherwise, I have no intentions of getting into a fight with you. You want to pull what you did before and make snarky comments every time I post? Go right ahead.
IPK may not be doing it for the Yankees, but he’s the real deal in Arizona.
However, I do agree that cutesy nicknames are a bit premature most of the time.
But there is nothing wrong with hoping for the best. And I haven’t given up on Joba and Hughes just yet.
I had to laugh at the earlier suggestion that Karstens is a better pitcher than Hughes. Nothing like over-reacting.
Betsy -
You seem to want things your way or no way. No one seems to be allowed to challenge your proclamations.
Villa Nova Ya…..I still think even with all the crap that has plagued his young career will be a very good pitcher……Maybe the firing of Eiland played with his head over the winter, but clearly he’s not where the Yanks thought he’d be so far in 2011……He threw alot of innings in 2010 compared to 2009 and that has to be factored in
Villa Nova-Ya
Its annoying…I hate the hype these prospects get from people on this blog.
its great to be excited and i realize the media gives people more access and info on these youngsters than ever before, but there is a very big difference between being successful for New York and Trenton.
All the stupid nicknames need to stop. The Killer Bs? That’s what they called the guys in Houston named Beltran, Biggio, and who, Berkman??? Try to at least be original.
Betsy….Now you just hit below the belt , Mike Francesca ??? He’s a moroon on too many fronts….But you did tip your hand as to where you get some of your comedy material
NEXT IDIOTS====>>>>
Mad Prince -
Yeah, the nicknames have to stop.
I love prospects. I love following them. ANd I do get somewhat attached to them. But you have to be able to be somewhat realistic. I think I am overall.
In the right deal, any prospect (and anyone on the ML roster for that matter) is expendable.
I just worry about giving too much away for too little.
mick -
Maybe we just don’t want to move on?