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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Have the Yankees missed out?

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jul 28, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Baseball’s trade market came to life in the past 24 hours or so. Have the Yankees missed out on anything that would have been a natural, worthwhile fit?

Carlos Beltran
The Mets right fielder is heading to San Francisco for the Giants’ top pitching prospect Zack Wheeler.

Could the Yankees have gotten him? Wheeler was the sixth overall pick in 2009, and he was picked this winter as the 55th-best prospect in baseball by Baseball America. He’s a tall, hard-throwing right-hander. The best Yankees comparison is probably Dellin Betances. The two have incredibly similar strikeout and walk totals, Betances was No. 43 on Baseball America’s list this winter, and although Betances is a level higher than Wheeler, he’s also two years older.
Would the Yankees have wanted him? Sure, Beltran made some sense for the Yankees. He would have upgraded the designated hitter position while giving the team four reliable outfielders.
Should the Yankees have gotten him? As always, that depends entirely on how highly you value prospects. The best-case scenario for Betances is awfully good, but he does come with some injury concerns — which certainly affect his trade value — and Andrew Brackman is proof that tall right-handers don’t always workout just because they have a nice year in Double-A. Even so, my gut reaction to a Beltran-for-Betances deal would be, no thank you.

Edwin Jackson
Traded twice in a span of a few hours, Jackson went to the Blue Jays in a deal that included highly touted prospect Zach Stewart and consistent reliever Jason Frasor, then he went to the Cardinals as the center piece for young center fielder Colby Rasmus.

Could the Yankees have gotten him? Stewart’s not having a great year in Double-A — he has a 4.20 ERA — but he’s still highly regarded, and Baseball America wrote that his stuff could translate as a closer if starting doesn’t work out. Rasmus is still just 24 years old, and although his speed and power combination haven’t translated to elite big league numbers this season, he’s still a high-ceiling player. For the Yankees, acquiring Jackson might not have required Jesus Montero, but it would have taken something significant.
Would the Yankees have wanted him? It’s a starting pitcher. Of course the Yankees would have wanted him. The Yankees have made it clear the past few years that pitching depth is a priority, but this season, it’s hard to say whether Jackson would have been a legitimate upgrade over the pieces in place.
Should the Yankees have gotten him? If there’s one game to play, and the Yankees could start any one of Garcia, Colon, Hughes, Burnett or Nova, would they be convinced Jackson would be a better option? I’m not so sure. Unless the Yankees can clearly upgrade what they have, I’m not sure it would be worth the cost of an elite young player.

Colby Rasmus
To upgrade their pitching staff, the Cardinals dealt from a position of strength and gave up their talented young center fielder for a package of Blue Jays pitchers.

Could the Yankees have gotten him? Technically, yes. The Yankees have pitching, and they could have given some of it to the Cardinals for their center fielder. Problem is, the Cardinals clearly were not in the market for prospects. The Yankees could have traded for Rasmus, but it would have required taking apart their big league roster, not losing pieces of the minor league system.
Would the Yankees have wanted him? Rasmus has a ton of talent, which is why most analysis of this trade considers it a coup for the Blue Jays. Hard not to like a guy who’s 24 with this sort of talent, even though the Yankees don’t have an obvious need for a center fielder.
Should the Yankees have gotten him? Not at the cost of their Major League pitching. Based strictly on this year’s numbers, Rasmus wouldn’t have been a huge upgrade over Jorge Posada at DH, and obviously the Yankees have significantly greater needs than a center fielder. A lot of talent, just not a good match for what the Yankees need and are willing to give.

Kosuke Fukudome
The Cubs outfielder went to the Indians for minor leagues Carlton Smith and Abner Abreu.

Could the Yankees have gotten him: Absolutely. Smith and Abreu aren’t significant prospects, and the Yankees could have made this trade by giving up names most fans have never heard.
Would the Yankees have wanted him?
Probably not. If Fukudome were a right-handed hitter, maybe, but Fukudome is a lefty and the Yankees don’t have a real need from that side of the plate. Chris Dickerson has a total of 24 at-bats as it is.
Should the Yankees have gotten him? No reason to. It wouldn’t have cost much, but wouldn’t have helped much either.

Jonny Gomes
The Reds shipped their right-handed outfielder to Washington for a pair of minor leaguers, first baseman Bill Rhinehart and lefty Christopher Manno.

Could the Yankees have gotten him? The Yankees have a few largely unknown lefties in High-A and Low-A (Jose Quintana, Kramer Sneed, etc). Rhinehart is younger and has better numbers than Jorge Vazquez, but both are power-hitting first basemen who are a little old in the world of prospects. Maybe not a perfect comparison, but it would have been a start. Certainly the Yankees could have gotten it done.
Would the Yankees have wanted him? He’s not much of a defensive player, and his overall numbers aren’t pretty, but Gomes is hitting .333/.439/.537 against left-handed pitching. If the Yankees are looking for an upgrade over Andruw Jones, this might have been it.
Should the Yankees have gotten him? Jones’ slash line against lefties (.263/.344/.513) is better than he gets credit for it being, but his production also seems to have come in spurts. Fans seem more disappointed in Jones than the Yankees are, so the need for an upgrade probably looks different in the front office than in the bleachers.

Associated Press photos

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215 Responses to “Have the Yankees missed out?”

  1. Warning Track Power July 28th, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Good article with a lot of notes, but
    none of those players were worthy to trade for.

  2. ac1 July 28th, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    I think the yankees should look at ichiro.
    We are looking for another hitter, a better right fielder, swish can DH.
    Ichiro can still play, but going to a contender may be good for him and he can definitely handle NYC.

  3. Mell July 28th, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    Sad news indeed on Irabu.

  4. Chip July 28th, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    Chad’s point on Rasmus is dead on.

    The Jays gave up a lot of junk to get Rasmus but it is junk that the Cards can use this year. It was a short-sighted deal by the Cards who must feel that with Pujols a FA, Berkman and Carpenter both very old that their window is now.

    For the Yankees to have gotten Rasmus it would have taken guys who are contributing on the big league level and the Yankees couldn’t afford to gut their 25 man roster of that much major league depth.

  5. Hassey July 28th, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    I’m going after Erin to be my closer

  6. Chip July 28th, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    ac1

    Ichiro
    Jeter
    Granderson
    Alex
    Tex
    Cano
    Swisher
    Martin
    Gardner

    Not bad come playoff time.

  7. Warning Track Power July 28th, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    Ichiro can not be happy playing in Seattle right now.
    His stats tell the story.

    The cost of acquiring Ichiro would be off the charts, so why even talk about the possiblity.
    Him in RF would upgrade the offense in a major way.

    I wish!!

  8. Erin July 28th, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    YankeesPR Wrapping up #Hopeweek event in Staten Island today with Megan Ajello! http://yfrog.com/hslhsskj

  9. Erin July 28th, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    Hassey July 28th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
    I?m going after Erin to be my closer

    ****************************

    I don’t think you could afford me. ;)

  10. Chip July 28th, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    Warning Track Power July 28th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
    Ichiro can not be happy playing in Seattle right now.
    His stats tell the story.

    The cost of acquiring Ichiro would be off the charts, so why even talk about the possiblity.
    Him in RF would upgrade the offense in a major way.

    I wish!!

    —————-

    What makes you think it would be off the charts?

    He’s 36 makes what – 18 this year and 18 next year?

  11. blake July 28th, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    “Based strictly on this year’s numbers, Rasmus wouldn’t have been a huge upgrade over Jorge Posada at DH”

    Great post Chad but I don’t know.about that one. Rasmus in RF and Swish at DH is a pretty clear upgrade offensively and defensively.

    That said, its true about the Cards wanting big league players so they could go for it this year. Unless Nova or Hughes could have gotten it done then it probably wasn’t a match…..though Id rather have either of those guys than Edwin Jackson because you get them for more than 3 months.

  12. West Coast Yankee Fan July 28th, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    Very sad to hear about Irabu; so young.

  13. blake July 28th, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    Ichiro looked really old in that series…..

  14. Erin July 28th, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    JonLaneNYC I remember interviewing Hideki Irabu extensively in 1998. His intentions were good. It just didn’t’ work out in the Majors.

  15. blake July 28th, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    RIP Irabu

    I wanted Beltran but wouldn’t have wanted the Yanks to match the Giants offer..m

  16. 108 stitches July 28th, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Beltran might have been the better of the lot provided that Scott Boras would listen to a reasonable deal for 2012-2013 until OF’s develop in the system. His role as a DH and time as a corner OF made me think of a David Justice type of situation.
    Edwin Jackson still has good stuff but why has he changed teams so many times ?
    Rasmus doesn’t seem like an NYC fit.

  17. Mell July 28th, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Ichiro looked really old in that series…..

    ========================

    and uninspired.

  18. J. Alfred Prufrock July 28th, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    Sos,

    Sure, a hack sportswriter who genuflects before the team he grew up rooting for by writing absurd statements like “Craig Hansen is the best setup man in the game”

    is totally comparable to an out-of-town GM comparing Dellin Betances’ upside with King Felix.

    Instead of concluding that maybe Josh Towers actually got to see the guy & based his comparison on that, you’re assuming he’s really just flattering the Yankees.

    Which makes a lot of sense…

  19. blake July 28th, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    Mell,

    From the previous thread….with 2 more really cheap years of control…..smaller market teams and noncontenders could trade for Ubaldo now…..the Angels were out of it last year when they traded for Haren……they did it for this year. I get what you’re saying but there will be more competition in the market this winter and he could also get hurt between now and then……if I was going to move him then I could see why they might consider trying to get the most they can now and then move forward.

  20. ac1 July 28th, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    Ichiro looked really old in that series…..
    ____

    Maybe tired of being on the Mariners?

  21. kd July 28th, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    sad news about irabu.

  22. blake July 28th, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    Joelsherman1 15 mins Sad news on Irabu who I will remember as guy who could not integrate into a veteran #Yankees clubhouse, nor deftly handle hitters here #RIP

    So you’ll remember him fondly Joel?

  23. Erin July 28th, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    Sherman can be such a jerk.

  24. Chad Jennings July 28th, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    blake July 28th, 2011 at 3:37 pm e
    “Based strictly on this year’s numbers, Rasmus wouldn’t have been a huge upgrade over Jorge Posada at DH”

    Great post Chad but I don’t know.about that one. Rasmus in RF and Swish at DH is a pretty clear upgrade offensively and defensively.

    I hear what you’re saying, but since that incident is May, Posada is hitting .275/.333/.403. Rasmus is hitting .246/.332/.420 for the year. That’s what I meant by, based strictly on this year’s numbers. I absolutely believe Rasmus is going to be an elite player, just wanted to call attention to the fact he really hasn’t been very good this season, for whatever reason.

  25. Hassey July 28th, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    I remember being 5 rows behind the Yankee dugout on 5/25/99 to see Irabu throw vs. the Sox. Mike Stanley (then on the Sox) hit the hardest line drive homer that I’ve ever seen, off of the flatest, most aimed fastball I’ve ever seen. Sox took the game, Yanks went back to back anyway.

  26. jacksquat July 28th, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    Betances would need to get his walk rate down before getting to the majors, let alone approaching Felix comparisons. He also has had injury problems in the minors while Felix has been a stud in the majors. Right now he looks more like a Jimenez.

  27. J. Alfred Prufrock July 28th, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    RIP Hideki.

    Let it be known that Joel Sherman picked us to finish third in 2009 :D. That’s right, the team that won 103 games & won the World Series, was not making the playoffs in Sherman’s little world.

    He made his prediction rather smugly on Michael Kay’s show.

  28. Chip July 28th, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    If Tampa falls out of it I could see Johnny Damon as an August pick up.

  29. LGY July 28th, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    Clearly the Yankees need to trade for Luke Hochevar.

  30. blake July 28th, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    Chad,

    Fair enough…..but I think you have to factor in also that Rasmus might would play better for a manager that didn’t hate him though and also that he could play defense and run the bases…..whereas Jorge is a very one dimensional player at this point……but as you said, the Cards were making the deal for now and it may not have been a match because of the big league players required.

  31. J. Alfred Prufrock July 28th, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    Walks don’t tell the whole story. Sometimes a pitcher is around the plate but not getting calls. He’s had a couple of real stinkers where he couldn’t find the plate & was hitting guys & everything but those starts are the exception. More often, he finds himself & some of those pitches are around the plate with a lot of movement & he doesn’t get the call. If the guy’s control/command were that bad, he’d be getting hit hard. He doesn’t.

  32. 11 CF July 28th, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    joel she-man hates the yankees

  33. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    If the Yanks got Rasmus, then they’d have to have traded Montero, you can’t not pick up Swisher’s option. At 24, Rasmus isn’t the sure-fire slam dunk he was a year ago. I don’t think he’s a good fit here.

  34. J. Alfred Prufrock July 28th, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    I have to run, but Betances is a lot more grounded that Ubaldo & has a much more broad, solid frame. Jimenez was Betances in terms of physique a couple of years ago, not any more.

    Gotta fly.

  35. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    Walks don’t tell the whole story. Sometimes a pitcher is around the plate but not getting calls. He’s had a couple of real stinkers where he couldn’t find the plate & was hitting guys & everything but those starts are the exception. More often, he finds himself & some of those pitches are around the plate with a lot of movement & he doesn’t get the call. If the guy’s control/command were that bad, he’d be getting hit hard. He doesn’t.

    What? Not really. Lack of control/command does not always = being hit hard, especially when you have good stuff. How are opponents hitting stuff out of the zone? Let alone 95+ out of the zone or Betances curve out of the zone? Daisuke had a 5 bb/9 in 08 and gave up barely any hits. There isn’t really any silver lining in Betances walk rate this year. He needs to get it under control or it limits his ceiling.

  36. blake July 28th, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    I think its fine to say Betances has Felix’s upside and.maybe he does……but the reality is that when Felix was Betances’s age he was already competing for CY Youngs in the big leagues. I hope Dellin becomes that type of pitcher……but the odds he’s ever close to what Felix is are a lot slimmer than what a lot of folks want to believe. If he turns into Ubaldo Jiminez even then everyone should be ecstatic.

  37. Chip July 28th, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock July 28th, 2011 at 3:51 pm
    Walks don’t tell the whole story. Sometimes a pitcher is around the plate but not getting calls. He’s had a couple of real stinkers where he couldn’t find the plate & was hitting guys & everything but those starts are the exception. More often, he finds himself & some of those pitches are around the plate with a lot of movement & he doesn’t get the call. If the guy’s control/command were that bad, he’d be getting hit hard. He doesn’t.

    ———-

    Minor leaguers – by definition – have less plate selectivity than major leaguers – thus as a minor league pitcher your walks should be low and strikeouts high since you can get less disciplined hitters to chase.

  38. Phranchise July 28th, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    Rasmus would have been a big upgrade and a future cornerstone. I don’t see how you can sell it otherwise. His personal issues are directly related to the relationship with Larusa, this wasn’t an issue prior. He is 24. Cano was deemed to be lazy. Kemp similar issues. Young players with huge talent seem to go through similar struggles when they are brought up early. It would have been a huge coup for the Yankees and created payroll and financial flexability going foreward. Couple that with the potential to flip him too which some teams might have preferred to Montero.

    The biggest issue was the Cards win now. Nova proved a decent amount and I think would have been good in NL. He might be consistent there. The main issue is Edwin Jackson can have lights out games in a playoff race. So you can see what player they would prefer, but for a half year rental, how can you give up a player that young, that good with salary control? At least Nova would have been decent this year and provide them a good arm for years to come.

  39. Mell July 28th, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    is totally comparable to an out-of-town GM comparing Dellin Betances’ upside with King Felix

    =========================

    Out of town GM is a bit of a stretch given his previous relationship with the team. Not near the stretch that suggesting he’s got Hernandez’s upside. Little hyperbolic.

    Betances looks like a fine prospect, but he’s nowhere near as good or advanced as Hernandez was/is. Little reason to think he will be. One guy is finishing 2nd in the AL Cy Young race at age 23, while the other is walking 5 hitters per 9 in AA ball.

  40. Bronx Jeers July 28th, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    Great article Chad. Unique.

    They’re saying it’s s possible suicide by hanging. Maybe it could be that other thing.

  41. Erin July 28th, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    Yankees David Gavant of @MLBProductions discusses the making of the HBO documentary “Derek Jeter 3K” …http://atmlb.com/qZZIlj

  42. Against All Odds July 28th, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    Sherman is a punk.

    @ Jap I remember that prediction didn’t he have Tampa winning 100 games and the Red Sox winning 97.

  43. Phranchise July 28th, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    Betances ceiling is probably Jiminez if all would go perfect to plan. I just really believe looking at Betcances we are looking at Daniel Cabrera part 2. I just don’t think he will ever put it all together with control at the big league level while remaining healthy.

  44. jacksquat July 28th, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    Walks are walks. Please save any conspiracy theories about him not getting calls. Betances’ walk rate is a concern. I didn’t say he sucked so don’t get yer panties in a bunch.

    And yes, I see him as Ubaldo-ish. Big, righthanded, throws hard, nasty second pitch, some control issues.

  45. blake July 28th, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    “If the Yanks got Rasmus, then they’d have to have traded Montero”

    ?

  46. BTX July 28th, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    and that 5 BB/9 is sure to go up when he faces ML hitters. And the Ks will naturally go down.

    He has a long way to go. Last year was the only year in his professional career that he didn’t walk 4.5+ per 9.

    He should not be any kind of dealbreaker for Ubaldo.

  47. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    I think Betances will end up in the pen. Could be a closer though.

  48. Howard July 28th, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    …and KC bullpen doing it’s best to ruin Hochever’s good start.

    HR by Pedroia.

  49. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    blake-

    No place for Montero with the DH slot full.

  50. Phranchise July 28th, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    Just read Hideki Irabu dead ………………. suicide is the first indication. Sad.

    RIP

  51. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    No place for Montero with the DH slot full.

    Catcher.

  52. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    “Catcher.”

    Who? Doesn’t look like it.

  53. LGY July 28th, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    I think Betances will end up in the pen. Could be a closer though.

    ——

    If he stays with the Yankees he almost definitely will.

  54. blake July 28th, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    Wave,

    Catcher /DH. Rasmus to RF…..you could either shop Swisher this winter or bring him back as a 4th outfielder or to DH when Montero catches.

  55. Joe from Long Island July 28th, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    Very sad news about Irabu.

  56. Mell July 28th, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    Wow! Athletics jumping ugly with the Rays again. Wade Davis just gave up the cycle over 4 consecutive hitters (Matsui single, Willingham double, DeJesus triple and Jackson homer). 5-0 A’s in the 1st./

  57. Chip July 28th, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 3:52 pm
    If the Yanks got Rasmus, then they’d have to have traded Montero, you can’t not pick up Swisher’s option. At 24, Rasmus isn’t the sure-fire slam dunk he was a year ago. I don’t think he’s a good fit here.

    ————–

    How do you figure that they would have to give up Montero?

    St. Louis wasn’t looking for prospects – they were looking for guys who could contribute to their ML team

  58. Bx is Burning July 28th, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    Matsui’s 17th RBI in 10 games.

  59. Yankee Trader July 28th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    ” Irabu (4-0) allowed only six hits, struck out six and lowered his earned run average to 1.13. He has thrown enough innings (46 2/3) to qualify for the lowest earned run average in the major leagues.”

    Read the rest of the NY Times article May 26th 1998 on the Yankee juggernaut team!

    RIP Hideki

    http://www.nytimes.com/1998/05.....utout.html

  60. lounge lizard July 28th, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    The way the 3 way deal for Rasmus worked out, with Chicago providing the SP in Jackson, I believe the Yankees would have been competitive if they put Robertson and Logan into the deal, along with taking Teahan’s contract.

    I would have done that. Robertson is good but I would roll the dice with Soriano in 2011 given the possible payoff over the next ten years. Rasmus had a 133 OPS+ as a 23 yo CF. The Yanks have to get high-celinged players into the COFs to compete with Boston’s offense and Rasmus could play LF in Yankee Stadium. He’s potentially better than Crawford and Werth who just got huge contracts. Gardner is a fine human being with many useful qualities but the lack of power is a fundamental defect in his game.

  61. Phranchise July 28th, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    You could always pick up Swisher’s option with Posada done. Chavez would not be back. Nunez is your MI backup at 3B, Swisher at 1B. 4 OF rotation. The decision would be bringing back Martin which makes sense to tutor Montero if you kept him and let Montero back him up for the year. End of next year either Montero is a starting catcher or you trade him. Or you could have picked up Rasmus depending on the price and flipped him in order to hold onto Montero.

  62. Chip July 28th, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    LGY July 28th, 2011 at 4:03 pm
    I think Betances will end up in the pen. Could be a closer though.

    ——

    If he stays with the Yankees he almost definitely will.

    ————

    That is the Yankee method of pitcher development

    Start with three high ceiling starters

    Turn one into a reliever (Joba/Betances)

    Deal another (Kennedy/Brackman)

    Turn the other into a mid rotation starter that is conditioned to throw 5 innings or 100 pitches and breaks down as a result when pushed deeper (Hughes/Banuelos)

  63. Chip July 28th, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Oh – I forgot in my last post the final stage of Yankee pitching development:

    Bring in 3 new guys and tell everyone how amazing they are in hopes people forget about the way you effed up the last three.

  64. Phranchise July 28th, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    I just remember going to see Irabu in his first game, the Japanese Roger Clemens, they were serving california sushi rolls for the first time at Yankees stadium. It was really quite electric that night. Far from the days of the Fat toad. Just sad that it ended up this way.

  65. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Chip-

    The Yanks wouldn’t have sent Montero to St. Louis, just somewhere, if they got Rasmus.

    blake-

    Right now Swisher is better than Rasmus. I wouldn’t trade him or sit him to make room for Rasmus.

  66. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    “That is the Yankee method of pitcher development”

    If you think that way you should have no issues with trading Banuelos or Betances for an established starter like Ubaldo.

  67. blake July 28th, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Wave,

    Yes right now……Id be willing to take a a chance on Rasmus’s Larussa free 24 year old future though.

  68. Against All Odds July 28th, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Chip July 28th, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    LGY July 28th, 2011 at 4:03 pm I think Betances will end up in the pen. Could be a closer though.

    ——

    If he stays with the Yankees he almost definitely will.

    ————

    That is the Yankee method of pitcher development

    Start with three high ceiling starters

    Turn one into a reliever (Joba/Betances)

    Deal another (Kennedy/Brackman)

    Turn the other into a mid rotation starter thatis conditioned to throw 5 innings or 100 pitches and breaks down as a result when pushed deeper (Hughes/Banuelos)

    —————————-

    The sequel to the first big 3. I wonder how this movie will end :/.

  69. Chip July 28th, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 4:14 pm
    “That is the Yankee method of pitcher development”

    If you think that way you should have no issues with trading Banuelos or Betances for an established starter like Ubaldo.

    ————–

    I don’t have a problem with them trading one or the other for Ubaldo – I have a problem with them trading both. Too much value to give up. I have no doubt that Nardi will ruin them, but before he does they shouldn’t just be tossed away. You can get something good for them that he can’t mess with.

  70. Against All Odds July 28th, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    Chip July 28th, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Oh – I forgot in my last post the final stage of Yankee pitching development:

    Bring in 3 new guys and tell everyone how amazingtheyare in hopes people forget about the way you effed up the last three.

    ————————–

    It would be interesting to see what would happen if none of the B’s panned out.

  71. Chip July 28th, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 4:14 pm
    “That is the Yankee method of pitcher development”

    If you think that way you should have no issues with trading Banuelos or Betances for an established starter like Ubaldo.

    —————

    In fact I look at it much the way I looked at trading Austin Jackson for Curtis Granderson. If everything goes right in Jackson’s development he might, someday, be as good as Curtis Granderson is now. If Betances doesn’t get hurt, doesn’t fall apart, he might – someday – be as good as Ubaldo Jimenez is now – sure, make that trade.

  72. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    I would trade Betances for Ubaldo, I just wouldn’t trade Montero because hitter for pitcher isn’t smart.

  73. Chip July 28th, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    Against All Odds July 28th, 2011 at 4:19 pm
    Chip July 28th, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Oh – I forgot in my last post the final stage of Yankee pitching development:

    Bring in 3 new guys and tell everyone how amazingtheyare in hopes people forget about the way you effed up the last three.

    ————————–

    It would be interesting to see what would happen if none of the B’s panned out.

    —————–

    None of the big three has panned out as predicted – what has happened as a result of that? Nardi still runs pitcher development for the organization, Betances, Banuelos and Brackman operate under much the same restrictions that Hughes, Joba and IPK had…If you do what you’ve always done then you’re going to get what you’ve always gotten.

  74. Yankee Trader July 28th, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    Kuroda’s contract stipulates that he will be eligible for conventional Article XX(B) after the season, writes Jon Paul Morosi, so he is a candidate for draft pick compensation if he maintains Type B status.
    ——————————–
    Will he be a Tiger or Yankee?

  75. Chip July 28th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 4:13 pm
    Chip-

    The Yanks wouldn’t have sent Montero to St. Louis, just somewhere, if they got Rasmus.

    ————-

    Why’s that?

    I think if they had gotten Rasmus the more likely guy to be moved would have been Gardner – or they pick up Swisher’s option and trade him in the winter (or just not pick up the option at all)

  76. Against All Odds July 28th, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    @ Chip good point

  77. Chip July 28th, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    Yankee Trader July 28th, 2011 at 4:22 pm
    Kuroda’s contract stipulates that he will be eligible for conventional Article XX(B) after the season, writes Jon Paul Morosi, so he is a candidate for draft pick compensation if he maintains Type B status.
    ——————————–
    Will he be a Tiger or Yankee?

    ————–

    Tiger.

  78. Phranchise July 28th, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    Chip I agree completely. The only reason not to trade Banuelos for Jiminez as lefties with his tools, age, etc are hard to come by. Plus all the Sox signings with their lefties it is important to have some of these guys to face those hitters since we compete directly with them. Betcances ceiling is that. So pay some money as you would anyway for someone that is proven other than suffering through years of development to see if the guy pans out. It is rare to have a King Felix and if Betcances was that we would have at least seen the Hughes type of dominance in the minors early on. If nothing else Betcances has proven that any early talk this year of a promotion is way off base. He is right where he needs to be from a development standpoint.

  79. BD (Boston Dave) July 28th, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    wow,Crawford JUST missed a walkoff 2 run HR.

    1 more out and KC splits the series against the Sawx

  80. Phranchise July 28th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    I haven’t really watched Kuroda at all, but on paper he just smells of being a decent #3 or 4 on this team in the AL East. Not the definitive #2 you are aiming at. You can’t give up much for him and I wouldn’t even want to move Warren at that point to have an NL to AL pitcher. I mean look at IPK in the NL. Amazing. In AL we would be looking at much of the same. So a 3 era for Kuroda does not impress me.

  81. Erin July 28th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    BD (Boston Dave) July 28th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
    wow,Crawford JUST missed a walkoff 2 run HR.

    *********************

    that’s a shame. ;)

  82. Phranchise July 28th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    And there Navarro K game over.

  83. Chip July 28th, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    Phranchise -

    Exactly.

    And if you think about it – the pitchers who have developed over the last few years, Wang, Nova, maybe Noesi, Aceves — these are all second or third level guys without an ounce of the talent of the Hughes, Joba, Kennedy, Brackman, Betances, Banuelos pitchers – why do they succeed and the better pitchers fail? Because the Yankees don’t treat them like glass. They let them go out and pitch and shock upon shock they actually develop into decent pitchers at a higher rate than the guys they coddle. Seems to me a smart organization would put two and two together.

  84. Yankee Trader July 28th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    Jerkface-

    I’m in agreement with you. The Rockies apparently want one ML ready player in the deal. Should that player be Nova or his twin clone Noesi?

    Betances as the centerpiece+ Nova/Noesi as ML ready player+ either of Phelps/Mitchell/Warren+ either Romine or Corban Joseph.

    That’s already an overpayment for a pitcher with some red flags.

  85. Chip July 28th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Trader -

    I would send them Hughes, Romine and Phelps. If they’re willing to include Ian Stewart I would throw in another guy like David Adams or Eduardo Nunez.

  86. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    “The Yanks wouldn’t have sent Montero to St. Louis, just somewhere, if they got Rasmus.

    ————-

    Why’s that?

    I think if they had gotten Rasmus the more likely guy to be moved would have been Gardner ”

    I don’t think so. They aren’t going to trade Gardner to keep one year of Swisher and let Montero DH for 2 years before they trade him to let ARod play there. And, they aren’t going to want a full time DH anyway because the Yanks rotate so many of their old guys through that spot for a rest. I think Montero would go, either now or in the off-season.

  87. Chip July 28th, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    and if the Rox want Montero – I’m okay with that – but I would want Ianetta coming back with Ubaldo.

  88. Chip July 28th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 4:34 pm
    “The Yanks wouldn’t have sent Montero to St. Louis, just somewhere, if they got Rasmus.

    ————-

    Why’s that?

    I think if they had gotten Rasmus the more likely guy to be moved would have been Gardner ”

    I don’t think so. They aren’t going to trade Gardner to keep one year of Swisher and let Montero DH for 2 years before they trade him to let ARod play there. And, they aren’t going to want a full time DH anyway because the Yanks rotate so many of their old guys through that spot for a rest. I think Montero would go, either now or in the off-season.

    ——————-

    Fair enough – either way they didn’t get Rasmus so it’s all academic.

  89. tomingeorgia July 28th, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    Come on, 4PM Sunday.

  90. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    “Betances as the centerpiece+ Nova/Noesi as ML ready player+ either of Phelps/Mitchell/Warren+ either Romine or Corban Joseph.”

    I don’t mean to pick on you particularly YT. A lot of folks here are thinking this way but it is a pipe dream. Ubaldo Jimenez is an extremely good pitcher with an extremely good contract and he is not going for a AA pitcher with control problems, a AAA pitcher who the Yanks picked Brian Gordon over, and one of the usual suspects.

  91. Yankee Trader July 28th, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    Beckett outdueled by Hochevar, Soria with save KC wins 4-3. Melky didn’t play.

    Held out for trade?

    Chip-

    Hughes as presently “constructed” will fail miserably playing in Coors field.

  92. G. Love July 28th, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Any Ubaldo trade any of us follow with the words “I could live with that” is without a doubt less than what the Rockies will get for him from us if he’s dealt here.

    It’s gonna hurt if it happens.

    Be prepared.

    I could live with Betances, Romine, Hughes or Nova, Noesi and Corban Joseph or David Adams or both of them for that matter.

    That means that’s not enough.

    It’ll start with Montero, probably include Betances and Nova before the filler guys get in the deal before all is said and done.

    It’s gonna hurt.

  93. kd July 28th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    tom,

    getting anxious or fed up with all of it?

    g love is right. getting ubaldo is going to hurt. and we may be giving away a potential star or two.

    but the word potential is the most important one….

  94. Chip July 28th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    Trader -

    I think Hughes will be fine once he gets away from here. The talent’s there – he’s shown that he can be a solid ML pitcher and I’m sure that in Colorado or anywhere else (maybe not Boston) he’ll emerge as that 1 or 2 starter that he was supposed to be.

    Hughes, Montero, Phelps and Laird for Ubaldo, Stewart and Ianetta

  95. Yankee Trader July 28th, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    WYH-

    Don’t worry. Not feeling picked on. Ubaldo is a very talented pitcher, at least the one that piched the 1st half of last year. I just wouldn’t include Montero for him, even if some believe he has no position to play.

    Montero for another young position player, and I’d give it my blessing.

  96. blake July 28th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    Wave,

    You may be right……but Rasmus just got dealt for a pile of spare parts…….every year guys get traded for less than people think they will. Dan Haren for Joe Saunders etc……a lit depends on how set on trading Ubaldo before Sunday the Rockies are. I think it’ll take Montero and Betances though and I don’t think Id go there….

  97. tomingeorgia July 28th, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    kd,
    I’m not anxious. Something will turn up for Cashman, or not. Standing pat isn’t the worst thing that could happen. There will be deals in August, too. I have never seen any of the minor leaguers involved in the conversation, and most posters haven’t either. The sox lost today, and the Yankees don’t play. Just bored with the endless speculation.

  98. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    YT-

    OK. But IMO that means no Jimenez, and that means reduced chances in 2011 (and 2012, because I’m not seeing where the Yank rotation will come from next year without him). That’s a lot to give up to keep a guy who the Yanks haven’t even brought up yet despite Jorge’s struggles.

  99. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Why would Betances not fetch Ubaldo but Montero would? In that case, the Yankees should be keeping Montero since he is apparently worth more than a premium pitching prospect.

  100. Nick in SF July 28th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Jerkface, I’m curious about a couple sabre stats, I sent you an email about the specifics.

  101. Erin July 28th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    pcaldera Joe Girardi caught Hideki Irabu’s 1st game in the majors, a 10-3 win vs. Detroit at the Stadium, 7/10/97. Derek Jeter had 4 hits.

  102. Yankee Trader July 28th, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    If the Reds include Mesacaro[which they are rumored to refuse to] their AAA catcher then I can see the only way for the Yankees to counter would be to include Montero.

    Anyway the Reds lost again and are falling further out of the race 5 games under .500, so at this point I don’t see them getting to the playoffs over the Brewers or Cardinals who are in it to win it, before key players of theirs become FA’s

    No reason to bid against yourself.

  103. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    blake-

    You are right. There’s always hope and who knows Cashman may yet pull a rabbit out of his hat. That is my preferred outcome. It’s just that I’m not an optimist by nature…

  104. blake July 28th, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    Betances, Romine, Nova, Corban is a very fair package for Ubaldo.

  105. Erin July 28th, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    jimbaumbach Spoke with LA police, who confirmed Irabu found dead “of an obvious suicide” at a home on his block. Police not certain it’s his home yet.

  106. RayVT July 28th, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    It seems like every year the Yanks go thru the same thing.

    1.) Do we give up 3 top miLB stars for 1 player.
    2.) Another team will get the same guy for 1 star or less.
    3.) Do you stand pat & bring in an extra like Kerry Wood type or Marte etc.
    4.) If you do #1.) above, does it move you further in Playoffs than not doing it.

    IMO, the Yanks are good enough as they are provided they add a piece like LH RP Thornton and bring up a guy named Montero. Also, I’d bring up Backman for the RSox series & if anyone gets closed to being hit he comes in to even things up. 100 MPH beanballs hurt!

  107. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    “Why would Betances not fetch Ubaldo but Montero would?’

    False premise. The thinking is that it will take Montero plus either Betances or Banuelos, and change. If it were just one of them I think most fans (though not all) would say do it. I’d do it with two of them but I admit there’s a risk I regret it down the road.

  108. kd July 28th, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    i hear ya tom. it’s getting a bit much.

    that said, if i were cashman, i’d offer montero for ubaldo straight up. take it or leave it.

  109. blake July 28th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    Ray,

    Problem is that Brackman throws more like 91 or even less sometimes these days.

  110. tomingeorgia July 28th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    kd,
    They’d say no, and that would be the end of it. Maybe then all of us could see Montero on Monday.

  111. 108 stitches July 28th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    The Rays have taken a serious plunge. No surprise if Upton and Shields are gone by Sunday. Their biggest need is bullpen help. Desmond Jennings will replace Upton and Alex Cobb will replace Shields.

  112. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    The thinking is that it will take Montero plus either Betances or Banuelos, and change. If it were just one of them I think most fans (though not all) would say do it. I’d do it with two of them but I admit there’s a risk I regret it down the road.

    -

    Oh, well I wouldn’t do 2 of them for Ubaldo.

  113. 108 stitches July 28th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    Brackman has been a big disappointment this year. I thought for sure he would emerge this year as a bullpen presence.

  114. Yankee Trader July 28th, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    WYH-

    Just not sold on Jimenez now.

    Where’s the Jimenez with the 98mph fastball??
    “Firing fastballs that reached 98 mph into the ninth inning, Jimenez pitched the first no-hitter since White Sox ace Mark Buehrle tossed a perfect game in a 5-0 victory over Tampa Bay on July 23, 2009.”

    Saw the last few innings of the Braves/Rockies game at Coors. his fastball went from 94-95in 5th to 91-92 in the 6th when they took him out.

    Then there’s the “funky” delivery. next Jake Peavy? Sure hope not?

    On the plus side if he’s a total failure he will not have cost the Yankees much in dollars, just “prospects” as some like to call them.

  115. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Jimenez is like Greinke. Both had 1 really good season, but come with questions, and big bust potential in the AL east. No Montero, 1 B.

  116. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    YT-

    Don’t know about the velocity. On the other hand, Ubaldo’s K/9 rate is as high as ever, and his BB/9 rate as low as ever. His xFIP is better than ever. And despite the “funky” delivery he’s thrown 200+ IPs three years in a row and on track to do it a fourth. I see him as a very similar play to Haren last year. But, you could roll the dice and come up snake eyes.

  117. blake July 28th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    Should the Yanks pursue Pence?

  118. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    Should the Yanks pursue Pence?

    I don’t like his plate discipline, and I don’t know if the lineup could handle another Cano.

  119. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    “Jimenez is like Greinke. Both had 1 really good season, but come with questions, and big bust potential in the AL east. No Montero, 1 B.:

    Not really fair, JF. We are talking ERA+ of 112, 118, 136 and 162 on a good contract.

  120. Triple Short of a Cycle July 28th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    But Haren has had many excellent seasons, Ubaldo has had 1

  121. blake July 28th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    Well then if he’s similar to Haren the price should be Joe Saunderish……Nova straight up?

  122. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    Uh yea its fair, Greinke: 120, 76, 116, 124, 126, 205!, 99. The question marks surrounding ubaldo are different than Greinke, but I think they are similar players in terms of what they should bring back. I actually like Greinke because he doesn’t walk batters and did all his play in the AL.

  123. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    “But Haren has had many excellent seasons, Ubaldo has had 1″

    Haren had more, true. But I’d argue Ubaldo has had two excellent seasons and two more above average seasons, and no below average seasons.

  124. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    But back to Pence, there is something to a guy hitting 25 HRs in 3 straight years like clockwork. But he strikes out and doesn’t walk, and his OBP is heavily AVG fueled. I don’t think he fits the Yankee mold.

    I wouldn’t deal Montero for him.

  125. BD (Boston Dave) July 28th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    by the way, this was a good post Chad.

    nice work.

  126. blake July 28th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    JF,

    Depends on the price for me……I think he’s a good not great player.

  127. BD (Boston Dave) July 28th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    Montero for Pence??

    heck no.

  128. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    To Ubaldo’s credit, he has pitched in Coors. I just am not sold on a guy with that walk rate being impactful in the AL East, not sold enough to include Montero.

    I would trade Montero for like Justin Upton I guess. Since then you’re getting a bat back.

  129. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    JF-

    No, not fair. ERA+ of 136 and 162 are both excellent. Two excellent years. Greinke had one spectacular year. And he had been in the league longer. And he didn’t pitch in Coors.

  130. Yankee Trader July 28th, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    Repost from yesterdays NY Post article by Joel Sherman:

    The Yankees are even hesitant to put two together such as Betances and Montero in conjunction with other prospects Colorado likes such as second baseman Corban Joseph.

    The Yankees and many organizations are concerned about red flags with Jimenez. His fastball speed is down from a first half last year when he was arguably the best starter in the majors, he is just 6-9 with a 4.20 ERA despite generally pitching better in July, and he has a high-maintenance delivery that makes him susceptible to arm injury and/or fits of wildness (more problematic in the AL East than in the NL Central). In other words, there is some A.J. Burnett there.

    Also there are officials who simply see a red flag in the Rockies having a young, talented, inexpensive starter on the market. What do they know about Jimenez that other teams don’t?

    Even if this is his floor, then he is still good enough to pitch in a rotation in the AL East,” said an executive from a team that inquired on Jimenez. “He has value at that level, especially with his good contract. And if he pitches how he pitched in the first half last year, then he is there with CC [Sabathia], [Jon] Lester and [David] Price among the best pitchers in the division.”

    But are you buying an AL East No. 1-2 or a 3-4? Colorado is selling him at ace-level.

  131. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    JF-

    At the end of the day I don’t think the Yanks are going to use Montero, Banuelos or Betances efficiently. And, I think they need Ubaldo to win in 2011 and 2012. So I do the bigger deal. If you don’t think that way, then of course you don’t do the bigger deal.

  132. blake July 28th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    “I wouldn’t deal Montero for him.”

    On no….I wouldn’t either. I was thinking like Nova or something.

  133. tomingeorgia July 28th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    Everybody seems to think Nova is chopped liver, and I don’t understand it.

  134. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    136 and 162 vs 124, 126, 205

    Sorry dude, Greinke was solid for 3 straight years including 1 year that blasted Ubaldo’s to pieces. Its a fair comp.

  135. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    Off topic, but I was out of touch for a while. Can someone fill me in on SJ44′s disappearance? His buddies Pat M, GB7 and Randy are still here.

  136. Yankee Trader July 28th, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    BD (Boston Dave) July 28th, 2011 at 5:18 pm
    by the way, this was a good post Chad.

    nice work.
    ————————————
    It’s like point counter point!! :)

  137. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    “Sorry dude, Greinke was solid for 3 straight years including 1 year that blasted Ubaldo’s to pieces. Its a fair comp.”

    But you said they both had only one good season, and I think Ubaldo had two. You can argue they are comps, I guess I wouldn’t beef about that.

  138. Triple Short of a Cycle July 28th, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    Grienke got traded for garbage as well

  139. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    One really good season. I don’t think the Yankees want a guy living all the time in the 3.5-4 range. You pay Montero+Betances+More for a guy that is going to be living low 3′s and putting up a 2.X every now and then. Like Greinke, I think Ubaldo may have just had a career year and is unlikely to replicate it. Thus I am not paying full price for what I perceive as a bad bet.

  140. Triple Short of a Cycle July 28th, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    tomingeorgia,

    Put him on Boston and Gammons would be in need of some new boxers

  141. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    CC 2006-2011 – 3 ERA
    Cliff Lee 2008-2011 – 2.99 ERA

    King Felix put up back to back 2 ERA seasons.

  142. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    Sorry I’m dealing with a value system that probably exists only in my head.

  143. blake July 28th, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    You could build a package without Montero or Banuelos for Ubaldo better than what both Haren and Greinke got traded for

  144. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    JF-

    OK, gotcha. Fair enough. I’m resting on my 5:21pm comment.

  145. Wave Your Hat July 28th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    “You could build a package without Montero or Banuelos for Ubaldo better than what both Haren and Greinke got traded for”

    Contract status has to be considered.

  146. tomingeorgia July 28th, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    Triple,
    Put him anywhere and he’s in the rotation.

  147. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    Contract status has to be considered.

    Haren was under contract for 3 years, Greinke 2, Ubaldo only 2 as well.

  148. blake July 28th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    Haren had the same amount left on his contract I think…..he was making more but same control.

  149. Yankee Trader July 28th, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    Rich Harden pitched well again One hitter thru 5, lifted after a 6th inning single and Homerun by soon to be new CF’er Desmond Jennings.

    6 innings, 3 hits, 2 runs, 2 walks, 7k’s. Unfortunately for the A’s the Rays have added 4 and counting in the 7th.

    Any interest in Harden as a cheap option??

  150. G. Love July 28th, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    What the Dbacks took for Haren really doesn’t apply. The Rockies are under no obligation to honor that trade value. They have their own value.

    The only thing the Yankees have to do is remain certain they are not overpaying compared to their competition.

    Cashman has to know what the other offers are and decide for himself if it’s worth giving Colorado what they want or will he look foolish for paying too high a price.

  151. blake July 28th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    The Rockies could get less than they will get now later.

  152. CompassRosy July 28th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    Warning Track Power July 28th, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    Ichiro can not be happy playing in Seattle right now.
    His stats tell the story.
    The cost of acquiring Ichiro would be off the charts, so why even talk about the possiblity.
    ===========================================

    I think his stats tell the story of an aging veteran….
    In October he will turn 38 and have played 19 years of professional baseball (10 in Seattle, 9 in Japan). The M’s have had only 5 winning seasons and only ONE playoff appearance in his time here and, until this season, his stats have never suffered. Age happens.

    As others have mentioned…
    I don’t think the cost would be off the charts at all, if he were made available – the operative word being IF. Not sure ownership would even entertain the thought of trading him. But, if they did, I would have no problem with it.

  153. blake July 28th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    G love,

    Of course not…..my point was that sometimes trades get done for less than you think……teams get caught up and anxious to make a deal

  154. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    Desmond Jennings has gone from .275 .374 .456 .830 in AAA to 1.20 OPS in the majors?! HOW CAN THIS BE.

    free montero

  155. Shame Spencer July 28th, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    RIP Irabu.. what a shame.

    And I’m looking forward to the Jeter special tonight. I know a lotta people here weren’t keen on it but HBO usually puts together some good stuff. I expect it to be pretty goose-bump inducing.

  156. G. Love July 28th, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    The only way we’re freeing Montero is by letting him loose in the Rockies by the end of the weekend.

    I don’t think he’s going to be a Yankee much longer.

    It’d be interesting to see if he’s held out of any games in the next day or two.

  157. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    Montero is going to hit .320 for the Rockies and I am going to be furious.

  158. joeman July 28th, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    just read Ari has according to them lowered their asking price for UJ……asking for Montero,Romine,Betances & another SP not named Manny

  159. Yankee Trader July 28th, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    Blake-

    You’re a secondary Braves fan as am I.

    Worst trade Braves made in last 25 years:
    1. Trade of Brett Butler to the Indians
    2. Trade for Mark Teixeira from the Rangers
    3. Trade of Adam Wainwright to the Cardinals

  160. BD (Boston Dave) July 28th, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    I predict Yankees will get Wandy Rodriguez for a couple secondary prospects.

    Red Sox will get either Harden or Bedard.

  161. blake July 28th, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    “Montero is going to hit .320 for the Rockies and I am going to be furious.”

    this is what worries me

    trader,

    tough call between #2 and #3….I’m gonna go with #2 just because of the amount of talent they gave up in that single trade.

  162. LGY July 28th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    Joeman

    Link?

  163. blake July 28th, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    joeman,

    is it Arizona and JU or Colorado an UJ ;)

  164. Triple Short of a Cycle July 28th, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    Desmond Jennings has gone from .275 .374 .456 .830 in AAA to 1.20 OPS in the majors?! HOW CAN THIS BE.

    lol

  165. Villa Nova-Ya July 28th, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    joeman,

    So let me understand -

    They want BOTH our catching prospects AND our #1 pitching prospect AND another player, and that’s LOWERING their demands?

    I don’t see it. Absolutely do not

    Cashman wasn’t willing to pay that much for Cliff Lee, why would he even think to pay that much for Ubaldo Jimenez?

    It seems this Jimenez guy is becoming a legend by the mere happenstance of being made available in a slim market. He is not worth emptying the farm for.

  166. joeman July 28th, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    # LGY July 28th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    Joeman

    Link?
    ———————————-
    you want everyone here to know where I get my info…LOL

  167. Yankee Trader July 28th, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    BD (Boston Dave) July 28th, 2011 at 5:52 pm
    I predict Yankees will get Wandy Rodriguez for a couple secondary prospects.

    Red Sox will get either Harden or Bedard.
    —————————————–
    Rogriguez contract:

    11:$7M, 12:$10M, 13:$13M, 14:$13M club option ($2.5M buyout)
    option may become guaranteed based on performance
    option becomes player option with trade

    OUCH!!

  168. BD (Boston Dave) July 28th, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    If that were true, its obvious Colorado doesnt see Montero as a catcher because they also want Romine.

    That’s important because his value is clearly higher as a catcher… and lower in the NL where he couldn’t DH (even occasionally.)

    So Yanks would be trading Montero for less than his max-value.

  169. Villa Nova-Ya July 28th, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    Shame Spencer -

    I am looking forward to the Jeter special too. I was disappointed to see that it’s only one hour long.

  170. joeman July 28th, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    # Villa Nova-Ya July 28th, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    joeman,

    So let me understand -

    They want BOTH our catching prospects AND our #1 pitching prospect AND another player, and that’s LOWERING their demands?

    I don’t see it. Absolutely do not

    Cashman wasn’t willing to pay that much for Cliff Lee, why would he even think to pay that much for Ubaldo Jimenez?

    It seems this Jimenez guy is becoming a legend by the mere happenstance of being made available in a slim market. He is not worth emptying the farm for.
    ——————-
    from what I read Montero for 1st base & Austin to catch

  171. Triple Short of a Cycle July 28th, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    Pats trade for Ochocinco. Take that Jets

  172. LGY July 28th, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    Nardi, Newman, and Mariners scout in Trenton tonight.

    Dellin starting.

  173. BD (Boston Dave) July 28th, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    Yankee Trader,

    I think a little $$ would come with Wandy.

    But this is how I see it – Cashman doesn’t want to give up any meaningful prospects. The only guy he’s going to get without doing that is someone like Wandy on a team like Houston.

    Houston is pleased with getting Melancon from NY. They’ll take a couple no-name prospects and shed $24M or so.

    Yanks might not mind paying 3/$24M for a lefty with decent #s.

    The alternative is trading some of your blue chip prospects.

  174. LGY July 28th, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    Joeman

    I don’t get it. Where did you get that info from?

  175. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    Atleast I can take some solace in the fact that the Rangers messed up Neftali by making him a reliever.

    On the other hand they magic’d a starter out of CJ wilson and Alexi Ogando. Yankees aren’t smart enough to do that,.

  176. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    I don’t get it. Where did you get that info from?

    He made it up

  177. LGY July 28th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    The Rockies have a catching prospect that is supposedly better than Romine.

    I don’t get why they would want him.

  178. Yankee Trader July 28th, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    Nardi, Newman, and Mariners scout in Trenton tonight.

    Dellin starting.
    —————————–
    Mariners scout? Betances last start as a Yankee?

  179. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    Mariners scout

    lmao get out of there mariners scout, that isn’t for you.

  180. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    Of course Jack Z will demand Betances for Bedard

  181. blake July 28th, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    Mariners scout? Hmm……nah

  182. Villa Nova-Ya July 28th, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    BD -

    So then Montero should not be in that trade. At all.

    It’s almost as if they’d want Montero to get him away from the Yankees. Who’s to say they wouldn’t turn around and trade him to someone else AS A CATCHER and get more value for him that the Yankees did????

  183. Villa Nova-Ya July 28th, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    Blake -

    The thought crossed my mind, too.

  184. LGY July 28th, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    Face

    Oh. Lol. I didn’t really understand his post. I thought he was saying he read that somewhere.

  185. BD (Boston Dave) July 28th, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    Villa,

    Well, Yanks can’t be concerned with what happens to the players after they’re traded.

    But it makes me think Colorado will not lower their demands because they don’t value Montero as much as the Yankees do.

    It’s one thing if both sides are in agreement about an elite prospect. But if they see him as a 1b, his value takes a hit.

  186. Yankee Trader July 28th, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    BD-

    Another lefty would be nice as a #3 after CC and Colon in the playoffs. However Wandy Rodriguez has been very inconsistent this year and had a stint on the DL for elbow inflammation which is worrisome.

  187. Betsy July 28th, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    Come on, Betances for Beltran? That’s just crazy

  188. BD (Boston Dave) July 28th, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    Mariners wanted AJax for Jarrod Washburn….

    remember?

    instead they got middling prospects from Detroit.

    I wouldn’t deal with seattle after what they pulled last season with Lee.

  189. Yankee Trader July 28th, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    BD-

    Last 10 games Rodriguez has pitched.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/.....-rodriguez

  190. BD (Boston Dave) July 28th, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    YT,

    I agree. I can see the Yankees doing it if Houston throws in $10M or so though.

    I can’t see too many other options where they can get a #3 or #4 starter without giving up one or more of their top 10 prospects.

    If they decide to move on Kuroda or Ubaldo and give up some major pieces, obviously Wandy is an afterthought.

  191. joeman July 28th, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    The Yankees are still exploring a trade for Colorado ace Ubaldo Jimenez. According to a source, Dan O’ Dowd has excluded Manny Banuelos from the negotiations and has asked for a package of Jesus Montero, Austin Romine, and two pitchers. One of those arms could be Dellin Betances.

    The reason for the inclusion of both Montero and Romine is because the Rockies view Montero more as a first baseman. Romine’s inclusion is intriguing since they already have their own catching prospect Wilin Rosario at Double-A Tulsa. It’s never a bad idea to have depth at the catching position.

    As I said in prior reports, some in the Yankees organization are curious as to availability of Jimenez. They wonder if there is a possible injury. Expect a contingency of scouts for his start on Saturday in San Diego.

  192. BD (Boston Dave) July 28th, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    YT,

    shutting out Texas for 7 stands out :)

    but yeah, you’re not getting a star…. that’s the trade off for not giving up any prospects I guess.

  193. Betsy July 28th, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    Hughes in Colorado would be a nightmare, Chip, and he hasn’t proven himself at all over the course of a long season. He’s got mediocre stuff and no real secondary pitches. It’s easy to say let’s trade him, not so easy to find a team that will give us anything really valuable for him

  194. LGY July 28th, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    Thanks joeman.

  195. Betsy July 28th, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    I dont’ think Jimenez is going to be traded, so I’m not wasting much time on him. The Rockies have zero incentive to trade him unless they get a huge package for him

  196. LGY July 28th, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    The Rockies have zero incentive to trade him unless they get a huge package for him

    ——

    Let’s trade the huge package.

  197. joeman July 28th, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    # LGY July 28th, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    Thanks joeman.
    ———————-
    LGY…got it from here…this site is well known here I think….

    http://nybaseballdigest.com/?p=38105

  198. Yankee Trader July 28th, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
    Of course Jack Z will demand Betances for Bedard
    ————————————–

    Or in the mind of Bret a 3 way trade is cooking!!
    Betances + reeses pieces for Pineda + gumdrops with Michael Pineda sent to the Rockies for Ubaldo Jimenez!! LOL

  199. Villa Nova-Ya July 28th, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    And the Yankees would be giving up THEIR immediate depth at the catcher position by dealing BOTH Montero and Romine in the same deal.

    Makes no sense for the Yankees to do that.

    Each of them could be worth more in separate deals, if they wanted to do that, at the very least. But realistically, the Yankees need to keep one of them, or they’re going to be trading for another catcher in the not too distant future (Sanchez and Murphy are not near ready).

    I would prefer they kept Betances, but I’d understand it in the right deal in the right combination. This is just an outlandish wish list by Colorado.

  200. Triple Short of a Cycle July 28th, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    Betsy,

    What incentive to Arizona have for dealing Haren?

  201. BD (Boston Dave) July 28th, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    “The Rockies have zero incentive to trade him unless they get a huge package for him”

    ————-

    that’s the key

    they’ve invested in Tulowitzki and Gonzalez, De La Rosa, Huston Street…

    they aren’t in complete rebuilding mode. they have a good nucleus to compete.

  202. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    Trading Montero to a team that doesn’t value him as a catcher is silly. If thats the case, why continue catching Jesus. Moral of the story, don’t trade Trade

  203. Jerkface July 28th, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    BRAIN , I meant dont trade Jesus :x

  204. Yankee Trader July 28th, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    New post–>

  205. Betsy July 28th, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    LGY, I wouldn’t do it at all………………and I don’t know what you mean by a huge package, but I mean a package led by Montero, Betances,etc….. I do not believe in mortgaging the future esp. for a pitcher. Even if he works out (and I have my doubts), what kind of team are we going to be fielding in a few years? Alex will be ancient, Tex will be worse (most likely) than he is now, who knows about Cano………….etc…? I guess what I’m saying is that I’m more willing to sacrifice the present than I thought – sacrificing the future scares me

  206. m July 28th, 2011 at 6:14 pm

    Did you change the title of last night’s thread? A lot of the same comments. ;)

    Just kidding.

    As for content itself, would any of these players have significantly improved the team?

    Beltran is the only one, and I don’ think the Mets were going to help is in a pennant race.

    Rasmus? Might have a bright career ahead of him, but him (or more likely his dad) needs to mature a bit. Numbers are down, but he will probably do better in a less toxic environment. Not sure if he is a big upgrade RIGHT NOW.

  207. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes July 28th, 2011 at 6:14 pm

    Bedard is a WASTE OF TIME AND PROSPECTS.

    So is everyone of these pitchers the Yankees have been rumored with.

    When are you all going to understand that?

  208. Villa Nova-Ya July 28th, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    You don’t make trades just to make trades LGY. Why would you endorse a bigger package for Jimenez than Cashman was willing to give up for Lee?

    Do you want the Yankees to deplete all their blue chip prospects in a single deal?

  209. LGY July 28th, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    Betsy

    Ubaldo is the present and future. This isn’t a rental.

  210. LGY July 28th, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    You don’t make trades just to make trades LGY. Why would you endorse a bigger package for Jimenez than Cashman was willing to give up for Lee?

    ——

    Duh. You make trades to improve the New York Yankees.

    Lee was a rental. Ubaldo would be here for 3 playoff runs and is super cheap.

  211. Villa Nova-Ya July 28th, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    Mad Prince in Pinstripes -

    I DO understand that.

    I’d prefer the Yankees do nothing to any of the rumors du jours.

    And, I doubt that any of the openly talked about trade possibilities are anything the Yankees are seriously interested in. Of course, they do their due diligence on every possibility, but if a trade is made it will be one that was not necessarily anticipated by the “common folk.”

  212. Betsy July 28th, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    LGY, IMO he’s not worth some ridiculous package..and no, I don’t think he’s a guarantee to be great. That wasn’t my point anyway – he’d be here and we’d field an old, not that great of a team behind him. So, what’s the point?

  213. joeman July 28th, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    hey a Arod return, a healthy Sori and a trade for UJ and get a LRP..look out Boston

  214. G. Love July 28th, 2011 at 6:18 pm

    I do believe the Rockies probably view Montero as a 1b. I would even bet they send him to AAA with a 1b glove to learn the position and tell the fans he’ll take over for Helton when Helton’s deal ends.

    I don’t believe that the Yankees would trade Montero and Romine in the same deal though unless Girardi’s love affair w/Cervelli has permeated the front office and they can’t wait to have a Martin/Cervelli combo for the foreseeable future.

    If the Yankees dealt both Montero and Romine in the same deal it would be akin to lunacy since none of the other catching prospects are close.

  215. randy l. July 28th, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    i think the yankees would be making a historic blunder in trading montero.

    the thing that makes a team like the yankees special is that fans attach themselves to individual players who represent an era of the team. i had mantle and whitey and tresh and the others. then there was munson and company. mattingly was the man for a generation. then jeter came along. yes , there are players that come in trades , but the ones that really grab fans are the homegrown ones who represent an era.

    montero could that kind of player for the yankees. he potentially could be that good. i just wouldn’t trade that potential. you don’t keep him for anyone over ten years old. you keep him for the new generation coming up so they have their star to root for the way we rooted for mantle when i was a kid.

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