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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Hughes: “There’s pressure to pitch well every five days”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Aug 02, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Tonight is kind of a strange start for Phil Hughes. He might be pitching for his spot in the rotation, but there’s no real benchmark he has to reach, and there’s nothing set in stone saying he’ll be bumped if he falters. His manager has supported him, but also acknowledged that there are other options.

As Hughes goes to the mound tonight for his fifth start since coming off the disabled list, there is simply this looming idea that the Yankees could make a change, and there’s the unmistakable presence of Ivan Nova just a few lockers away.

“I have pressure on myself,” Hughes said. “I don’t really think about the other stuff when I’m out there. There’s pressure to pitch well every five days, whatever the circumstances are, whether there are six guys in the rotation right now or not. It won’t be any different.”

Joe Girardi has acknowledged that he doesn’t plan on sticking with a six-man rotation. He said yesterday that no option is off the table, but he also seemed to give a vote of confidence to Hughes. At the very least, he gave an indication that Hughes will be given plenty of time to prove himself, something he earned last season.

“What we try not to do is we try not to look at things in a snapshot,” Girardi said. “You’ve got to look at things over the long haul and what you see. Sometimes people want immediate results, and sometimes they don’t get immediate results. Those are the tough decisions that we have to make.”

Hughes seems to be approaching the situation with his usual calm. His stuff hasn’t been his best these past four starts, but that’s to be expected, and he’s shown considerable improvement since April. Hughes believes the stuff will come — the velocity, the curveball, the cutter — but it’s a process, and he’s still going through it.

“It’s not like one game or one pitch is going to turn it around,” he said. “I need to have some success over the course of some starts, feel like I’m myself again, to get back that total confidence… I didn’t really expect to be at a certain plateau by this date or that date. If I can go out there, not have my best stuff and battle, pitch a good game, I’m going to take that over what the scoreboard says or anything else. I don’t really think I expected to be anywhere after a certain day, I just went out there and tried to do the best job I can.”

Here’s Hughes speaking before yesterday’s game.

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Associated Press photo

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417 Responses to “Hughes: “There’s pressure to pitch well every five days””

  1. Against All Odds August 2nd, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    Done arguing/debating for the day… I honestly hope Phil throws a CG shutout wqith 9 K in 104 pitches…

    seeya

    ———————————

    That would be sweet

  2. JobaTipsHisCap August 2nd, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    “There’s pressure to pitch well every five days”
    as long as he doesn’t face elite teams

  3. Yogi Mantle August 2nd, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    With a lot of teams putting their players on waivers, and a lot of teams looking to make claims in order to block, what would be sweet to see is that some of these teams get nailed and be given the expensive players.

    Like what happened with Rios a couple years ago. While I do think the WS wanted him, I am not so sure they where jumping for joy that they got him with no salary relief even without having to trade a prospect. Especially now that some time has gone by and Rios really isn’t all that great a player.

    Imagine if some of these teams just decide, fine, while we wanted some prospects, the main thing was salary relief, so go ahead, he is yours. It would be pretty funny to see that.

  4. PacoDooley August 2nd, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    A lot of lessons to be learnt about what it means to be a pitching prospect when it comes to Hughes. He and Joba couldn’t be dealt for Santana – of course Santana has broken down, but it’s something to keep in mind when looking at teams asking for the killer Bs in deals, like the deal they tried for Uboldo.

    The success of position players is a lot more predictable than that of a pitcher, so if I am a big market team like the NYY, I am willing to deal pitching prospects for established talent at the MLB level.

  5. PacoDooley August 2nd, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    When it comes to teams getting stuck with a waiver claim I always think of the NYY and Canseco. he was a decent pinch hitter I guess, but they obviously didn’t actually want him when he was claimed.

  6. jacksquat August 2nd, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Snapshot?

    Since May 17 last year, his last 30 starts, Hughes has an ERA of 5.59.

    That’s the “long haul”.

    I’m not calling for his head, but Phil needs to get it together.

  7. Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    If you look through the game logs from last year you’ll see that Hughes was better than his ERA wouldn’t indicate last year after his great start.

    ==============================

    No he wasn’t. It was exactly what he was. After posting 5 quality starts in his 1st 6, he posted 10 over his last 23. FIP, xFIP. They’re all consistent with the ERA he ended up with. As Bill Parcells once said, “You are what your numbers say you are”.

  8. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    “The success of position players is a lot more predictable than that of a pitcher, so if I am a big market team like the NYY, I am willing to deal pitching prospects for established talent at the MLB level.”

    That also can lead you to be always looking for pitching with other teams unwilling to trade them to you. You can have all the money in the world ……but there has to be something to buy or it doesn’t matter.

  9. Phranchise August 2nd, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    But do you trade pitching prospects in bulk is the problem? And then factor in the contract money.

  10. BD (Boston Dave) August 2nd, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    Eh, ask Cole Hamels and the slew of other young pitchers who had “Verducci off years”

    Way too early to write off Phil. But might be tough to expect an immediate turnaround.

  11. Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Way too early to write off Phil. But might be tough to expect an immediate turnaround

    =============================

    Correct on both counts.

  12. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    Mell,

    How many starts did he fail to pitch 6 innings last year? Take his starts vs the Blue Jays out and what was his Era? My point was that he had a couple of terrible starts that deflated his numbers and that he was better in the 2nd half than he has been this year by far…..both by the numbers and seeing with your eyes. He was great to start last year…….and then pretty good for a rookie the rest of the year in 2010…..he hasn’t been either this year so far.

  13. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    Phil gave the Yankees a chance to win in a great percentage of his starts last year……even after the first 6 starts.

    I buy that he’s been terrible this year…..I just don’t buy that he’s been terrible since April of last year

  14. Tom in N.J. August 2nd, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    Blake may have a point about Hughes. In 9 of his 13 second half starts he gave up 3 runs or less.

  15. Warning Track Power August 2nd, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    I’m rooting for Hughes tonight. I want him to succeed, but I have to be honest:
    Right now Hughes is the 6th best starter on the team.
    Nova has surpassed Hughes this year. Right now I have the least amount of confidence
    in Hughes as a starter.
    I think once Hughes fails to pitch well two more starts, he will be demoted to the bullpen.
    What else can Girardi do?

  16. G. Love August 2nd, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    blake,

    Calling him a rookie last year is being generous. He pitched in the majors the prior year in the pen and rotation for the majority of the season and was handed a rotation spot from the outset in 2008.

  17. jacksquat August 2nd, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    You don’t get a 5.59 ERA over 30 starts by just having a couple/few bad starts.

    I’m not a Hughes hater or a pessimist or anything like that. Just thinking practically, Nova may be a better option for the rest of this year, and maybe Phil can be more productive out of the bullpen. Then work hard on the conditioning in the offseason and get ready to be a starter for next season.

  18. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    G. Love,

    I meant first year starter…..

  19. luis August 2nd, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    Hi everyone,

    I don`t think Phil`s problems should be dealt at the MLB level, i always thought that it was better for him to stay in the minors to work things out ( mainly his other offerings and his confidence level ). I thought that Nova was a better option for the time being. I really hope that i`m wrong on this, but that`s the way i see it.

    In relation to adquiring pitching thru trades, if the price is right i think you should do it, but i don`t think UBJim was worth what they were asking for him. Also, the current transitional situation that the team is going through, calls IMHO for prudence and keeping most of your assets in the minors, because you will have face out or replace the core of the team in the next 18 months at the latest.

  20. Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    Take his starts vs the Blue Jays out and what was his Era? My point was that he had a couple of terrible starts that deflated his numbers and that he was better in the 2nd half than he has been this year by far

    =============================

    I understand your point. Just disagreeing with it.

    As to your question about failing to pitch 6 innnings last season, the answer is 11 times in 29 starts.

  21. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    “You don’t get a 5.59 ERA over 30 starts by just having a couple/few bad starts.”

    No but he didn’t have a 5.59 era over 30 starts last year…….he had a 4.19 era last year. Im not going to lump this year in with 2010 because he isn’t the same guy this year…..his stuff is worse, his location is worse, and he doesn’t look to have any idea what he wants to do with the ball.

  22. Phranchise August 2nd, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    5.59 era over 30 starts? You mean part last year and this? Of course you do. 2 innings pitched and 6 earned runs isn’t helpful is it.

    As bad as we think Hughes has looked for instance 3 of his last 4 starts = 17 innings 6 earned runs. So those numbers don’t tell the whole story there either.

  23. luis August 2nd, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Edit: “You will have to start to face out or replace the core of the team within the next 18 months at the latest.

  24. Yogi Mantle August 2nd, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    jacksquat, if they put Hughes in the pen, as you suggest, won’t that lead to yet another year that he doesn’t get enough innings in and going back to having the same kind of problem he did this year?

    It is a tough call, live with his not being very effective, with the eye on next season possibly being better as happened to a number of pitchers with the glimpses of talent he has shown, or limit his role to clean up/ bull pen, and see him either reduced to a bull pen guy, or go through late season fatigue from innings jumping up too much?

    I’m not sure which way would work best for him, other than getting innings and work in the minors, which doesn’t seem likely to happen, it could short circuit a good career if they make the wrong call.

  25. ron August 2nd, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    Hughes has less than 400 major leagu innings pitches.

    It is not unheard of for him to struggle.

    He just said so himself that he has to get his velo,confidence back.

    Combine that with other factors & here we are.

    Imo he has lost some confidence,some velo & that is all it takes to make a mess.

    For him to not be getting bombed every time out might mean something.

    Also imo,he needs another pitch.
    Changeup,slider,etc…,i wish it was a changeup.

    Yes he was doing well last year with only a cutter,curve,fb,but he needs to insist on perfecting a cu.

  26. Phranchise August 2nd, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    Ultimately I think we can pretty much all agree there was limited benefit to getting Hughes up here pre-allstar break as Nova had settled in nicely at the end. He should have continued a rehab program with starts at AAA and then bring him up if required. It is tough, however, to make a guy do that that apparently has already earned his stripes to an extent and keep him down there foreever.

  27. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    Mell,

    My main point is that the Hughes from this year isn’t the sams guy as even the Hughes from the 2nd half last year……so Im not lumping the 2 together. Had he not lost his stuff and confidence maybe he would have taken a step forward this year instead of a step backwards.

    What you saw from him last year was consistent with a guy learning to pitch…..many (including me) expected him to build on that this year……it didn’t happen because he’s not the same guy right now. So that’s all Im saying ……Im not going to lump the 2 years together and say he’s stunk since May 2010 because I don’t think that’s accurate or really relevant to what’s going on with him now.

  28. Phranchise August 2nd, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    Yogi

    Completely agree. The solution with Hughes long term is not the pen now. You want him stretched out going forward and log innings. If they don’t need him down there, which they don’t right now, he needs to pitch innings as a starter since that is his long term projection. Otherwise you are working backwards in his development.

  29. DAM23 August 2nd, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    Can we just put Hughes in the pen once and for all? How many years have we been dealing with his inability to resemble any type of consistent starter? Let him go an inning or two at a time and be done with it.

    Pretty clear he doesn’t have what it takes, both physically and mentally, to be a starter.

  30. Warning Track Power August 2nd, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    In 2011, Hughes is NOT good enough to be in the starting rotation.
    When guys like Garcia and Colon have superior stats, that right there is a sign that Hughes
    should be sent to the bullpen.

  31. igotid88 August 2nd, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    If Hughes goes 6ip 2er 10h but loses the game 2-1. Will it still be considered a bad start?

  32. luis August 2nd, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Yogi Mantle August 2nd, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    I agree that is unlikely that he is sent down to the minors. But why it would hurt him to go down and work on his issues??. He can work on all of his pitches, he can get his confidence back, which i think is not there yet. The only downside i see to this move is that his window of opportunity gets smaller due to the coming of the second wave of pitching ( The B`s ).

  33. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    “If Hughes goes 6ip 2er 10h but loses the game 2-1. Will it still be considered a bad start?”

    No but how good it will be considered will have to do win how he looks doing it.

  34. Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    My main point is that the Hughes from this year isn’t the sams guy as even the Hughes from the 2nd half last year

    ========================

    This we agree on.

  35. Phranchise August 2nd, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    Can we just put Hughes in the pen once and for all? How many years have we been dealing with his inability to resemble any type of consistent starter? Let him go an inning or two at a time and be done with it.

    Pretty clear he doesn’t have what it takes, both physically and mentally, to be a starter.

    ++++++++

    Not sure how you get the mental aspect but whatever. Sojust like Joba I guess it’s assumed he will go back and dominate in the pen? So he dominated the minors as a starter. Has had some sporadic success in the majors as a starter. But stick him in the pen permanently. I guess when Halladay didn’t work out or Hammels dropped off or Gio Gonzales had a 5.75 era his second year or Matusz gets sent down, once a young pitcher struggles just give up?

  36. RadioKev August 2nd, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    Hughes in the bullpen doesn’t make an ounce of sense. He doesn’t have his fastball and it will not suddenly come to life by shifting him into the pen at this point. He’s a starter, he has starter ability.

    Sending him to aaa makes more sense, if need be. I also don’t think it will come to that.

  37. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Anyway…..I hope he shows some signs of coming out of this tonight.

  38. Yogi Mantle August 2nd, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    luis, I wouldn’t mind seeing Hughes go down to the minors to work on his pitches, especially his secondary ones. To me it would make the most sense over him starting and not doing well.

    I think this start will be an important one for him. Trouble is if he does really well, it will keep him in the rotation. If he ends up having that as his one good outing, then struggles again, it may have the Front Office holding off doing anything with the thought that “well, he had that good game”.

    I do think that next season will be more telling about Hughes and how the rest of his career might go. I just am not going to have high hopes that this year he will suddenly “find it”.

  39. Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    Warning Track Power August 2nd, 2011 at 12:28 pm
    I?m rooting for Hughes tonight

    *******************

    Me too. :)

  40. Phranchise August 2nd, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    Jeff Weaver 2008, roughly the same age as Hughes

    Pre All Star 8-8 4.03 era 116 IP 88 ks
    Post All Star 3-2 4.90 era 60 innins pitched 64 ks
    Also take a look at the month to month fluctuations in his performance.

    Year stats 4.33 era 1.28 whip 11-10 176 inning spitched 152 ks

    Hughes last year 4.19 era whip 1.25 18-8 176 innings pitched 146ks

    Not saying Hughes is Weaver or will ever be that good. But let’s give the kid an opportunity to fail. Otherwise any young pitcher will suffer the same fate so might as well trade Banuelos, Betcances, Warren and whomever else now.

  41. ron August 2nd, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    Hughes can struggle the rest of this year & then next year turn into an ace as he approaches 600 ml innings,wich is not a ton by the way.

    This is how it works with pitchers & we can’t give up on hughes now,especially with pitchers being the most valuable commodity.

    We can’t predict what any player will be.

    Did anybody predict hamels turning it around?

    If hughes doesn’t pitch well enough to deserve a playoff start,he won’t get one but we need to give him 1 more year.

    You never know,maybe we develope an ace.

    I would of left hughes down much longer in AAA & have him develope a cu when he was rehabbing.

  42. luis August 2nd, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    Yogi,

    Completely in agreement. as you said before, let`s hope it doesn`t short circuit his career

  43. tucker August 2nd, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    One thing the yanks whiffed at on the trade deadline was getting a lefty reliever. Logan has showed improvement, but they need a second arm out of the pen to navigate boston’s lineup. Doubt there will be much on the waiver wire. Wonder if Johan Santana will be available as the Mets purge more payroll?

  44. Phranchise August 2nd, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Amazing when you look at Halladay’s career stats to see his second full year 2000

    10.64 era 1.57 whip 4-7 67.2 innings pitched 44 ks. And needing to get sent back down.

    Following up on a 1999 season

    8-7 year 3.92 era 1.57 whip 149 innings pithced and 82 ks.

  45. Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    One thing the yanks whiffed at on the trade deadline was getting a lefty reliever.

    ==================================

    Dry market. Did ANY team successfully procure a decent lefthanded reliever via trade this season?

  46. igotid88 August 2nd, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    Whatever Hughes does tonight. I think he needs to pitch on Sunday’s game in some capacity. I don’t know if Garcia and 89mph fb will fare well against a hot hitting team in a hitters ballpark. So I’m pretty sure or hope that if the worse happens Hughes gets in the game as he will be on turn. Not that I want him in the bullpen. Just that I don’t get the feeling Garcia will dominate like Jaime Moyer did to us.

  47. heyman_sux August 2nd, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    Sending him to aaa makes more sense, if need be. I also don?t think it will come to that.

    =======

    No pitcher is exempt from being sent back to AAA. Cliff Lee/Roy Halladay were sent down…the results are evident.

    Problem is, Phil hasn’t tanked. He simply hasn’t pitched as good as the rest of the rotation (most of which is pitching better than expected)

    AAA doesn’t make sense at this point though. He’d only get a handful of starts

  48. luis August 2nd, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    I`m out, have a good one guys

  49. SoS August 2nd, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    Would we be giving Hughes this much benefit of the doubt if he wasnt home grown?
    Vasquez had an all star first half when we originally got him in 04 and took a nose dive ever since. People couldnt wait to run him out of town. Keep in mind he was a young pitcher who had actually had a good track record. Would we have given him more opportunities if he was our very own? Hughes has not shown that he can locate 3 to 4 pitches. His velocity once again dropped 2mph after the 2nd inning and cant locate. Is it all between the ears or is there something wrong with his arm that they havnt yet caught?

  50. SoS August 2nd, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    Logan has showed improvement, but they need a second arm out of the pen to navigate boston’s lineup.

    ======

    I believe Marte will be ready to pitch soon.

  51. tucker August 2nd, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    Best hope for a lefty reliever is banuelos improving his command in Scranton and charging out of the pen with the big club in September. That would be a nasty weapon.

  52. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    Manny’s first AAA start is tonight right?

  53. Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    but they need a second arm out of the pen to navigate boston’s lineup.

    =================================

    Might be an overrated need. Boston has hit lefties almost as well as the Yankees. Don’t need them to be lefthanded as much as they need them to be GOOD.

  54. heyman_sux August 2nd, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    I believe Marte will be ready to pitch soon.
    ==========

    Really? Didn’t think he or Feliciano would actually be available this year

    Thought Romero was the more likely option

  55. Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    blake August 2nd, 2011 at 1:10 pm
    Manny?s first AAA start is tonight right?

    *********************

    yes

  56. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    As a team Boston hits lefties well…..would still be nice to have a good one to come in and get Gonzalez, Ortiz, or Crawford in a key spot…..that said Id probably trust Robertson as much as anyone against them.

  57. SoS August 2nd, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    I thought I read a couple weeks ago that Marte would be an option in the end of the year. Could be wrong.
    Feliciano out for the season.

  58. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    Erin,

    Thanks…..I shall be watching

  59. Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    BloggingBombers My pal @joecapMARLINS reports that the Yankees will play two exhibition games to open the Marlins’ new ballpark next April 1 & 2.

  60. RadioKev August 2nd, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    ron August 2nd, 2011 at 12:55 pm
    Hughes can struggle the rest of this year & then next year turn into an ace as he approaches 600 ml innings,wich is not a ton by the way.

    This is how it works with pitchers & we can’t give up on hughes now,especially with pitchers being the most valuable commodity.

    We can’t predict what any player will be.
    —————

    I absolutely agree with this. Perhaps one day we’ll look at this season, and the context will be “oh it was growing pains, the season after he really matured and hit his potential” or it could be “yeah, and then he busted.” At this point it’s too early to say what he can’t be. He’s approaching his prime years, so we’ll see soon enough. I wouldn’t be surprised if he salvaged part of this season and put it all together next year.

  61. SoS August 2nd, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    Lets just be thankful that the Yankees did not sign Lackey. Everytime I see him pitch It makes me appreciate having Burnett as the possible albatross contract.

    Oh and with all the injuries we’ve had we’re only 1 game away from the pre determined World Series champions. Alex coming back within a couple weeks fresh and healthy should get us over.

  62. Hassey August 2nd, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Can anyone project any similarity between Hughes’ career arc and Dave Righetti’s? (see stats below). Forget for a second the politics of moving each of them to the bullpen and just look at the up and down stats.

    http://www.baseball-reference......da01.shtml

    Maybe Hughes could be a future closer?

  63. Phranchise August 2nd, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    SoS mechanics and control may be “between the ears” I don’t think throwing 2 mph less is between anyone’s ears Let along 3-4 mph.

    And Vasquez was an NL pitcher coming to the AL, he never succeeded here, maybe the league, maybe the environment, he went back to the NL and succeeded, came back and stunk. That is in no way a good comparison since Hughes had far more success in his career here than Vasquez ever did.

    If anything he might be a prime example of why not to go get an NL pitcher like a Wandy Rodriguez.

  64. ron August 2nd, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    I hope hughes pitches a gem tonight.

    Mark my words if it happens.

    The tone of this blog will change overnight about hughes being a potential ace.

    In baseball,2 great starts by hughes & cashman & girardi will forget nova’s name.

  65. heyman_sux August 2nd, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    Lets just be thankful that the Yankees did not sign Lackey. Everytime I see him pitch It makes me appreciate having Burnett as the possible albatross contract.
    =========

    As much as the Vasquez deal gets panned (somewhat understandable since Vizcaino is becoming some sort of super prospect), at least Cash was smart enough to acquire the veteran with the expiring deal. NOT the obviously declining one who wanted a fat, long term contract

  66. Bronx Jeers August 2nd, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    This is Phil’s 8th year in the organization and 5th as a member of the Yanks.

    Maybe the 6th year is the charm.

  67. Phranchise August 2nd, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    Well maybe not forgetting Nova’s name, but maybe calls to send AJ to the pen haha.

    But I don’t think we can expect Hughes to be more than incrementally better than his last time. The biggest thing for me is his ability to finish off hitters with swings and misses. It’s really the difference between his good and bad starts. He would look a lot better if when he has guys 1-2 he can get a k. Some of those starts he’s walking those guys or having 10 pitch at bats after being up 1-2 and giving up hits. You will lose a lot of those games.

  68. ron August 2nd, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Hughes is a young pitcher trying to find his way.

    I am not willing to give up on him yet.

    I wouldn’t give him the 1-3 starts in the playoffs but we have to let this run its course.
    How else are we going to develope pitchers.

    I am not saying we need to develope all 5 starters at once but nobody is trading good pitching.

    CC is going to get a boatload of money when he opts out.

  69. kd August 2nd, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    exciting night for yankee pitching. hopefully we see the return of phi hughes. hes’ gotta get better with each start, right?

    and then there’s manny b. if the control issues were due to the blister, and my guess is that they were, then we may be seeing the beginnings of an ace. just remember what he made youk look like. and ken youklis can hit left handed pitching. i know, one at bat. but if this kid is half as good as mariano says he is, we’re in for a treat.

  70. Shame Spencer August 2nd, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    Just read this on the NJ Devils blog I frequent, thought you folks might appreciate it:

    “i didn’t realize that Devils fans developed the Yankee fan mentality. Why is the sky always falling?”

  71. upstate kate August 2nd, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    but Shame isn’t the sky always falling for Devils fans?

  72. Betsy August 2nd, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Nova is a better pitcher and needs to be in the rotation; Phil desperately needs innings so sending him to AAA is the only option, IMO. I just don’t get putting him in the pen. He’s not going to transform all of a sudden – and frankly, do we really need him as a 6th inning man? If he’s to be a starter next year, he really needs the innings that starting in AAA will provide.

  73. RS August 2nd, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    Vizcaino is a great prospect but I believe he’s being converted to a reliever now, which makes him more expendable. And we did get Bichette as compensation for Vazquez leaving.

  74. Betsy August 2nd, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    Blake, you can’t take his starts against the Jays out – they count. If you’re going to do that, you need to take his very best starts out…….

  75. Chambliss August 2nd, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    Once upon a time, Jon Lester was a young left handed pitcher in Boston with a lot of talent. In his first few years with the big team, he showed lots of potential, but he struggled with his command. A five inning, 100 pitch effort was common. His name came up in many potential deals, including a deal for Johan Santana. Boston decided to keep him and now he is one of the best pitchers in baseball.

    I don’t know if Hughes will ever be as good as Lester, but the point is it is way too early to give up on Hughes. If Nova is better right now, he should have the fifth spot and Hughes should go back to AAA to build his strength and confidence.

    The sample size was relatively small, but Hughes was dominant out of the pen in 2009. His stuff was electric.

  76. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    Bichette is untouchable :)

  77. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    Hughes first 6 starts: 1.38 ERA
    Next 2 starts: 7.59 ERA
    Next 3 starts: 2.70 ERA
    Next 6 starts: 6.44 ERA
    Next 6 starts: 3.63 ERA
    Last 7 GAMES: 4.50 ERA

    If you break it up like that it doesn’t look so bad. Its just as disingenuous to throw out his first 6 starts and lump the rest in as it is to say you can’t throw out his bad games. He had some real clunkers, but overall he had a 4 ERA in his first full year of starting. He proved his ceiling in the playoffs against a pretty good offense, and didn’t do so hot against a better one.

  78. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    “Blake, you can’t take his starts against the Jays out –they count. If you’re going to do that, you need to take his very best starts out…….”

    I can when everyone seems to want to take his first 6 starts out of the equation from last year.

  79. Tom in N.J. August 2nd, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    Sending Hughes to AAA only makes sense if they intend to call him back up in September.

  80. DAM23 August 2nd, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    Fans have lost all objectivity with Hughes. No one wants to believe all these years have shown he doesn’t have what it takes to be a starter. He’s weak and can’t hold up to 200 innings a year. How many more years of evidence do we need? At some point you just need to accept it and do what is best for the organization. He is no longer a “young” pitcher.

  81. Shame Spencer August 2nd, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    upstate – Generally, I feel like we’re a fairly spoiled bunch and therefore satisfied but maybe thats what both fan bases have in common. I feel like Islander fans have worse to deal with :(

  82. bruceb August 2nd, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    Will we ever again see the Phil Hughes who took a no-hitter into the 7th inning against the Rangers on May 1, 2007? Hard to believe that was more than four years ago.

  83. Betsy August 2nd, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    He was dominant until he struggled badly late in the season and in the playoffs….

  84. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    JF,

    Exactly….an up and down season like you’d expect for a first year starter. What he’s been this year is totally different and I don’t think has anything to do with what he did last year.

  85. Howard August 2nd, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    Will we ever again see the Phil Hughes who took a no-hitter into the 7th inning against the Rangers on May 1, 2007? Hard to believe that was more than four years ago.
    __________

    How long are we gonnna hear about his “near no-hitter”? Thousands have taken no-no’s into the seventh and eighth. One start doth not a pitcher make.

  86. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    Cliff Lee was a terrible pitcher not all that long ago.

  87. Captain Clutch August 2nd, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    Hughes should be in AAA not the bullpen. He has to work on his secondary pitches and if he is in the bullpen he will only be throwing his fastball so that won’t help him. For whatever reason his fastball hasn’t been the same. When he had his good starts it was because he had that swing and miss fastball and we haven’t that fastball this year. I wonder if his arm is still injured or something is wrong. Unless he improves his pitches especially his curveball he is going to struggle to be consistent in the majors. His stuff is average right now and not good enough for the AL East. Hopefully he looks much better tonight.

  88. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    3 ER or less in 20 of his 29 starts. Hughes was more likely to pitch well than not. Compare and contrast to AJ Burnett in 2010. Burnett was more likely to blow up and when he did blow up it was worse than Hughes.

  89. Bronx Jeers August 2nd, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    Shame Spencer August 2nd, 2011 at 1:41 pm
    Just read this on the NJ Devils blog I frequent, thought you folks might appreciate it:

    ———————————————————————————————–

    Devil fan? Tell me you’re a Cowboy and a Miami Heat fan and you’ve almost reached the perfect quadfecta of evil. (You’d need to be a Flyers fan to achieve absolute evil)

    :wink:

  90. Betsy August 2nd, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    Blake, ok you can do that, but when I evaluate his year from last year, I do it like this : he was fantastic for the first month and a half. I’m counting those games. However, he was quite bad for the almost the entire rest of the season and because that consists of the vast majority of the season (from about 5/17 onward) those games weigh a lot more heavily to me in evaluating that season. I think Phil is a lot closer to what we saw last year in the 2nd half than he is to the first half pitcher because teams hadnt’ adjusted to him yet. NO matter how good his FB may become again, he still can’t put hitters away and he still has no real secondary pitches.

  91. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    How bad Hughes was after his first 6 starts in 2010 has been greatly exaggerated…….

  92. Betsy August 2nd, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    It does present a problem that the MiLB season ends in a few weeks. I don’t think that Phil would help much out of the pen and although I think he needs innings, I would just shut him down after the MiLB season ends. I don’t think he should sniff the pen until the Yankees decide he is not in their future plans as a starter.

  93. Tom in N.J. August 2nd, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    Hughes in the stocks next spring traing and let us throw rotten fruit at him!

  94. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    In the second half he held Boston to 3 ER in 12 IP

  95. Betsy August 2nd, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    Blake, we will have to disagree because I’m not going to take his Jays starts out of the equation……..I’m counting all his starts, good and bad.

  96. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    “However, he was quite bad for the almost the entire rest of the season”

    No he wasnt though ……he was good some, ok some, and horrible a handful of starts. Seasonal averages are misleading sometimes…..what’s important is how many times a pitcher gives his team a chance to win…..and Hughes did that a lot last year…..even after the first month.

  97. DAM23 August 2nd, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    What evidence is there that he is gonna improve? I don’t know about anyone else, but seeing a pitcher miss months of a season with no actual injury speaks volumes. Expecting him to become the pitcher we were led to believe he was capable of is unrealistic with all the evidence we have now.

  98. Shame Spencer August 2nd, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    Bronx – I AM a Cowboys fan. Home of the best fantasy football QB in the league!! But I was made a fan by my older cousins who were at least able to enjoy our glory days. The ‘Boys haven’t made a splash in a while. I was soooo hoping they’d pick up Vick last season or Burress this year. I like it when we’re a rowdy bunch.

  99. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    “I’m counting all his starts, good and bad.”

    Then he pitched to a 4.19 era and won 18 games in his first year starting……

  100. West Coast Yankee Fan August 2nd, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    The same inane Hughes hatred over and over and over again by the same passive aggressive hater who knows nothing about baseball and pitching.

  101. Joe from Long Island August 2nd, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    Chambliss @ 1:51pm – nice perspective.

  102. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    Hughes isn’t pitching very well right now…….but what I don’t think is right is when folks say that he’s been terrible since May of last year because I just don’t think that’s true.

  103. Bronx Jeers August 2nd, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    I don?t think he should sniff the pen until the Yankees decide he is not in their future plans as a starter.

    —————————————————————————————————————

    It worked for him before. He does need innings badly. He’s at 32?

  104. Betsy August 2nd, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    Blake, and I already told you that I weigh what he did from 5/17 on more heavily and I explained why. We’ll have to agree to disagree on the kind of year he had. At the end of 2010, I believed he was going to struggle this year based on what I saw for the entire year. I don’t think the first half 2010 Phil is indicative of what we can expect going forward from him even if he regains some of his stuff. I guess if we could fast forward a few years, we’d all be better off, but we can’t, so we’ll just have to wait and see.

  105. DAM23 August 2nd, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan August 2nd, 2011 at 2:06 pm
    The same inane Hughes hatred over and over and over again by the same passive aggressive hater who knows nothing about baseball and pitching.

    ———————————–

    Don’t know if you meant me, but I am not a hater. You’re confusing hatred with being realistic. At some point you have to believe what you actually see and come to grips with it.

  106. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    Arbitrary End Points are silly.

  107. 86w183 August 2nd, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    He only won 17 as a starter with a 4.23 ERA…. would be quite content to see him post those numbers year in and year out. I’m just not optimistic it will happen based on all the trends since early last year.

    Let’s hope he’s really good tonight

  108. Tom in N.J. August 2nd, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    20 starts of 3 runs or less (9 in the 2nd half)

    2 starts of 4 runs.

    6 starts of 5 runs or more

  109. Betsy August 2nd, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    Bronx Jeer, I think being in the pen helped the Yankees, but I don’t think it helped Hughes long term. Additionally, his arm has no life – he doesn’t have close to the same stuff. If he goes to the pen, why is the pen going to all of a sudden magically allow him to put hitters away ? We’ve all seen pitchers with flat FB get hammered out of the pen – even those who threw hard. Even if Phil somehow adds a couple of MPH to his FB out of the pen, without the life, he’s still going to struggle.

  110. GreenBeret7 August 2nd, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    Sad 32nd anniversary for the Yanks today in Chicago. Perhaps the worst day in franchise history.

  111. West Coast Yankee Fan August 2nd, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    Hughes is a young pitcher who was an all-star in the AL East “LAST YEAR.” He had inflammation in his right shoulder and some command mechanical issues along with two pitching coaches who advised this grip or that. Some of this discard him talk is just nonsense.

  112. West Coast Yankee Fan August 2nd, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    No Dam not you.

  113. DAM23 August 2nd, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    Betsy August 2nd, 2011 at 2:11 pm
    Bronx Jeer, I think being in the pen helped the Yankees, but I don’t think it helped Hughes long term. Additionally, his arm has no life – he doesn’t have close to the same stuff. If he goes to the pen, why is the pen going to all of a sudden magically allow him to put hitters away ? We’ve all seen pitchers with flat FB get hammered out of the pen – even those who threw hard. Even if Phil somehow adds a couple of MPH to his FB out of the pen, without the life, he’s still going to struggle.

    ——————-

    Because in the pen he doesn’t have to worry about developing the other pitches. He concentrates on going all out for an inning at a time. He is not cut out for 200 innings and multiple times through a batting order.

  114. G-C August 2nd, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    Hughes saved the Yankees season with his start against Boston at the Stadium in September.

    That was just one good start in a very solid second half that only the most obtuse people can’t seem to recognize. What a shock, its the same people over and over again!

    I’m hoping to see a lot of progress tonight.

  115. upstate kate August 2nd, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    Shame
    Say it aint so…a Cowboys fan??? How can a nice girl from NJ be a Cowboys fan? That is just wrong.

  116. 86w183 August 2nd, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    Have not seen one person suggest discarding him.

  117. igotid88 August 2nd, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    People say Hughes was lucky he only gave up 2 runs vs the Mariners. There were games in the 2nd half where luck wasn’t on his side and he gave up runs on bloop hits, seeing eye singles, OF having fly balls drop to their sides (which is not an error because the glove didn’t touch the ball so that becomes an earned run). Having hitters hit homeruns on pitches you wouldn’t hit a homerun off(Tampa Bay game, Vernon Wells on a pitch above his head)

  118. Captain Clutch August 2nd, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    Hughes has to get his curveball to be a plus pitch for him. Just a fastball and no other above average pitches isn’t going to work. The other big issue for him is putting batters away after getting to 2 strikes. That is still a major problem for him and we see it in all of his starts. After 2 strikes it takes him about 5-10 more pitches to try and get the batter out and the batter usually gets a hit or walk. Those are the 2 main areas where he has to improve on. I really don’t understand why they were so quick to bring him up instead of letting him work on his issues in the minors. It really made no sense.

  119. Betsy August 2nd, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    Either have I – sending him down to AAA is not like shipping him off to Siberia.

  120. West Coast Yankee Fan August 2nd, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    I saw many suggest he be dealt for picks or an average arm.

  121. G-C August 2nd, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    Guess what, most relievers aren’t cut out to be starters because they just aren’t that good! I think the only exception to the rule is Mariano Rivera, who I suspect could have been a great starter because he’s just that freaking good. Otherwise, relievers have inherent limitations that make them largely fungible parts of a major league roster.

    Wasting a talent like Phil Hughes in the bullpen is a crime.

    The bullpen is a place for fungible retreads like Cory Wade and Luis Ayala, not a 6’5 230 pound starting pitching prospect who induces more swinging strikes with his fastball than almost any pitcher in baseball when he’s right.

  122. Tyler August 2nd, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    The thing that seems to create such a negative perception for Hughes is how long we have all heard about him. He only recently turned 25 which is younger than a lot of guys in AAA. I think he’s only like a year older than Adam Warren and the same age basically as Phelps. Plus, with injuries, the guy has not thrown that many big league innings. He’s still learning his craft. It just took a little longer than expected when he blazed through the minors and was called up at age 20.

  123. Bronx Jeers August 2nd, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    Shame Spencer August 2nd, 2011 at 2:05 pm
    Bronx ? I AM a Cowboys fan.

    —————————————————-

    Don’t they open against the Jets this season?

  124. Villa Nova-Ya August 2nd, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    So, it’s okay to throw away and discount his best starts but not to throw away and discount his worst starts? And the arbitrary reason for this is because you give more weight to starts after 5/17?

    Seems if you take the season on the whole, and realize that season has ups and down, Hughes had a very good 2010. He was able to keep his teams in games even when he was not dominant.

    In the very early part of the season, those starts that you are discounting, often times Hughes was not getting runs until late in the start. so those the final scores looked as though he was getting run support, the truth is, for the major part of those starts he was not.

    I think one of the reasons people “throw away” his worst starts is because they were against one team, the Blue Jays, who were an absolute bugaboo for Hughes last season. But I don’t think you have to throw any starts out. Hughes had a nice first full year for the Yankees, and cleary tired toward the second half of the year. He gave them a huge start in September. You don’t write guys like that off.

  125. Betsy August 2nd, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    I think at this point putting Phil in the pen would be a waste as well…..I haven’t given up on him being a solid starter at some point, but it’s just going to take work. I don’t think being in the pen will help him at all – we’ve been there, done that.

  126. West Coast Yankee Fan August 2nd, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    Girardi wants to win this year as do we all. If Hughes can’t contribute he will go to the pen and start fresh next year. He is a starter for this team long term.

  127. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 2:20 pm

    Hughes is a difficult topic to discuss here……

  128. Tom in N.J. August 2nd, 2011 at 2:20 pm

    Kate, many, many of my N.J. peers were Cowboy, and Bulls fans growing up. Heck, I have friends who are Duke fans even though they went to another school.

  129. Captain Clutch August 2nd, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    How exciting our lefty reliever is here…..

    mlbtraderumors Rangers Designate Arthur Rhodes For Assignment

  130. SoS August 2nd, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    WCYF,
    In the last second rumor mill. It seemed like Cashman was ready to include him in a deal. Could Cash be giving up on him? Its interesting that Girardi did not rule out one of Nova or Hughes being sent to the pen. To me that was directed more to Hughes who has a proven to be successful there.

    Anyone know what time Montero gets here? Speaking of Montero, any concerns of his strikeout rate? I believe its 79k in 82 games.

  131. jpb173 August 2nd, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    Hitters in the American League adjusted to Phil Hughes in the second half of the season last year. His curve was substandard so it was a very easy adjustment to make (just look for the fatball). The loss of velocity this season really hurt his performance because his curve is so bad. If he had a better curveball (and Rothschild is working with him to develop one) and changed speeds more he could get by quite well with a 91 mph fastball until his velocity returns.

    What we are seeing with Hughes is the pattern of adjustments that hitters and pitchers are always making. In Hughes case it might take a bit longer because he came through the Yankees minor league chain so quickly.

  132. G-C August 2nd, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    Phil has nothing more to learn at AAA.

    Sending him down to AAA to “work on his pitches” just isn’t a good option.

    That would be exacerbating the very ROOT of his problem.

    This is a guy who does way too much “tweaking” in the first place. He needs to find a plan and stick to it. If he wants to throw 90 percent fastballs, then he should commit to it and do it. Not tweak grips on his secondary pitches and invent new wrinkles here and there.

  133. DAM23 August 2nd, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    G-C August 2nd, 2011 at 2:17 pm
    Guess what, most relievers aren’t cut out to be starters because they just aren’t that good! I think the only exception to the rule is Mariano Rivera, who I suspect could have been a great starter because he’s just that freaking good.

    ————————-

    Mo WAS tried as a starter and failed. He is and always has been a one pitch pitcher. All relievers for the most part are failed starters. There is no shame in that. Dominant bullpen arms have plenty of value to a team as well.

    Hughes has had every opportunity to start and clearly he isn’t cut out for it at the major league level. Use him for what his talent is and not stubbornly refusing to admit his failure as a starter. Nobody wins that way and we keep going thru this every season until he’s packaged in a deal for a utility infielder some day. Who wants to see that after all this?

  134. Shame Spencer August 2nd, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    upstate – I know, I know, everyone’s always surprised (especially my father, the Giants fan). But literally all of my older cousins (ages 30-39) LOVE the ‘Boys so I’m a faithful fan. The thing I love about being a Cowboys fan is the same thing I love about being a Yankees fan: We’re freakin’ everywhere!!

  135. SoS August 2nd, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    G-C,
    Amazing how Rivera picked up 4 mph on his fastball in the minors. I wonder if he would have been as effective without it?

  136. Howe Farr August 2nd, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    Doesn’t Phil just have one option left to go to the minor, why waste it now? What if next year the season starts and he isn’t doing so well, wouldn’t that be a better option for him to go to the minors, not when he just came back from an injury?

    Doesn’t make much sense to send him down now with one month left in the minors…

  137. Shame Spencer August 2nd, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    Bronx – They do and I hate it lol. I couldn’t watch or follow the Cowboys when I was a kid the way I can now (thank you technology!). So I watched the Giants and Jets faithfully every Sunday….. and I’ve always had a soft spot for the Jets and have rooted for them since I was younger. I had a major thing for Wayne Chrebet. I really don’t know how my dad handled it… If I wasn’t a Yankee fan, I would’ve been kicked out of the family years ago.

  138. G-C August 2nd, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    Dominant bullpen arms don’t have much value to a team in the long term. David Robertson is having a historically great season this year. I think he may be an exception to the rule. Mariano Rivera certainly is.

    But other than Mariano Rivera, how many “dominant bullpen arms” can you think of that have sustained greatness for more than three or four years out of the pen in the last decade?

    I’d be hard pressed to think of any, really.

    Cory Wade has been a dominant bullpen arm for the Yankees this year. He wasn’t even in the major leagues last year. Odds are Cory Wade won’t be with the Yankees in 2013, but he hopefully can contribute to winning a championship with his excellent pitching this year. I expect a new version of Cory Wade will be doing the same in 2012.

  139. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    “Phil has nothing more to learn at AAA.”

    I think that depends…..if he continues to pitch with the style he has been then no…..he would just go down and dominate minor leaugers which would serve no purpose. However if he decided that what he’s doing isn’t working and he needs to reinvent himself a bit and stop relying on his fastball so much ….then it could absolutely help him to be placed in an environment where the results don’t matter. Hughes has to pitch at 92-95 with good command to have success the way he pitches now……without the velocity or plus command he is defenseless against big league hitters.

  140. West Coast Yankee Fan August 2nd, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    SoS – I don’t know what Hugges trade rumors were true or not. I don’t have an issue with anyone being dealt with few exceptions if it helps the team and makes sense. Plenty if aces have been dealt as well as average hurlers. That’s not giving up on them as in we don’t think they have a place on this team anymore. The Yankees have a longer perspective than that.

  141. G-C August 2nd, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    Mariano Rivera was a FAILED STARTER? Really?

    He made 10 major league starts! You’re going to deem him a failed starter after 10 major league starts!? Are you kidding?

    This is one of the most absurd notions I hear on a consistent basis.

    Perhaps if Mariano Rivera had been a starter the Yankees would have won 10 championships since 1996 instead of 5.

    Hitters have known what he’s throwing for the last 15 years and haven’t adjusted to it. What makes you think they would adjust to it over the course of 6 or 7 innings?

    Its kind of fun to think about!

  142. DAM23 August 2nd, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    G-C August 2nd, 2011 at 2:27 pm
    Dominant bullpen arms don’t have much value to a team in the long term.

    —————————

    They do have tremendous value to a team that hopes to win the WS. Isn’t that the goal?

    Would you rather, for example, to have a few great years of Hughes out of the pen or a few more years of failed attempt after failed attempt to make him a successful starter, gaining nothing during that time?

  143. West Coast Yankee Fan August 2nd, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    Hughes is not throwing 88-89 anymore. If you watched his last game his problem was location. Command is almost everything in pitching. His 91-92 is plenty to win with if hes hitting the catchers glove. I see good improvement in his curve ball.

  144. JobaTipsHisCap August 2nd, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    I hope Hughes can bounce back to eat up some innings when facing mediocre teams.

  145. DAM23 August 2nd, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    G-C August 2nd, 2011 at 2:30 pm
    Mariano Rivera was a FAILED STARTER? Really?

    He made 10 major league starts! You’re going to deem him a failed starter after 10 major league starts!? Are you kidding?

    ———

    OK, I’m wasting my time here. You obviously have not been following this team since those days and don’t really know what you are talking about.

  146. G-C August 2nd, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    Where does Hughes fit into a bullpen picture that already has Wade, Soriano, Robertson, and Rivera? Three of the four are pitching out of their minds and you have to figure Soriano will get it straight soon.

    He doesn’t. There wouldn’t be any high leverage innings for him.

    Putting him in the bullpen is useless.

  147. pat August 2nd, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    russellmartin55 Can’t wait for tonight’s game! Ready for some baseball… @cc_sabathia @cgrand14 @nickswisher @robinsoncano @teixeiramark25 @PhilHughes65

    russellmartin55 Can’t forget @DRob30 @Yankees

    Joba_62 @russellmartin55 already forgot about me. Sad day. I still love ya russ!!

  148. Giuseppe Franco August 2nd, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    I wouldn’t say that Mo “failed” as a starter.

    He was given opportunities to start games in ’95, but the Yanks were fighting for a playoff spot for the first time in many years so he was switched to the bullpen because at the time it was a greater need.

    His coming out party was the ’95 ALDS against the Mariners and did so well that the left him there.

    Obviously, we are all glad they did but he wasn’t really given much of a shot to be a starter long term.

  149. Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    pat-love that joba/martin exchange. :)

  150. Howe Farr August 2nd, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    July 4, 1995, i remember that game, It was my first memory of Mariano. He killed the White Soxs that day 8 innings, 2 hits, 11ks.

    But that was his best game as a starter, if memory serves…

  151. G-C August 2nd, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    “OK, I’m wasting my time here. You obviously have not been following this team since those days and don’t really know what you are talking about.”

    _______________________________

    I certainly have been.

    He made 10 major league starts.

    Clearly I’m the one who’s wasting my time here. You’re calling him a “failed starter” after 10 major league starts because thats the popular jargon that gets tossed around all the time. It’s not true.

    I think Rivera could have made a phenomenal starting pitcher. Just as well, he’s done a pretty decent job in his current role!

  152. igotid88 August 2nd, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    To say Hughes doesn’t have what it takes to be MLB starter is wrong. Especially with all the stats posted here. And with not his best stuff in the last 4 starts to still give them a chance to win 3 of those 4 times. He does have what it takes.

    And people here were discarding him. They wanted to trade him for Ubaldo. A pitcher who is also having the same problem velocity wise. And also had problems in the 2nd half. Who also when facing AL teams wet the bed. But somehow he gets a pass?

  153. upstate kate August 2nd, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    oh poor Joba :(

  154. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    91-92 is good enough to be ok…..if he has really good command but without a plus secondary pitch he will have to be on point with his command. He averaged around 93 last year and touched 95-96 at times. His curveball is better than it was earlier in the year…..but still too slow…..its still 18-20 mph different than his fastball and that’s just too much. When he gets his average fastball back to around 93 and gets that curveball velo up to around 78-79 then he’ll start having more margin for error and start pitching better IMO…..

  155. Bronx Jeers August 2nd, 2011 at 2:42 pm

    Shame you’re a nice girl from NJ? I did not know that.

    Chrebet was great wasn’t he? Like the football version of Bret Gardner.

  156. tucker August 2nd, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    Not expecting much from Hughes the rest of this year. I expect him to return to his 2010 (first half) version next year — after spending the winter at Athletes Performance Institute in the desert. He needs to show up in better shape.

  157. LGY August 2nd, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    Hughes’ lack of velocity, command, and life are likely all tied to the same problem.

    It was the same thing with Joba.

    Until you see him bring able to pump 94 mph heaters on a consistent basis none of those things will be there.

  158. LGY August 2nd, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    *and the problem will still exist*

  159. West Coast Yankee Fan August 2nd, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    LGY August 2nd, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    Until you see him bring able to pump 94 mph heaters on a consistent basis none of those things will be there.

    ***************

    Absolutely 100% wrong. You don’t need to throw a 94 fastball to be a superb major league pitcher and I will spare this blog the numerous and obvious examples.

    It’s not how hard you throw your fastball, it’s where you throw it. Good command is the most important attribute for any MLB pitcher to have.

  160. Shame Spencer August 2nd, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    Bronx – From NJ? Yes. Girl? Definitely. Nice? Debatable.

  161. pat August 2nd, 2011 at 3:02 pm

    NYY fact of the day: Girardi says A-Rod likely to play minor league rehab games. He hasn’t played in a minor league game since 1996.

  162. LGY August 2nd, 2011 at 3:02 pm

    Absolutely 100% wrong. You don’t need to throw a 94 fastball to be a superb major league pitcher and I will spare this blog the numerous and obvious examples. It’s not how hard you throw your fastball, it’s where you throw it. Good command is the most important attribute for any MLB pitcher to have.

    ——

    Do you know how to read?

    I said his lack of command and lack of velocity is very likely tied to the same problem.

    So until he can pump it at 94 his command will still be poor.

  163. Captain Clutch August 2nd, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    SI_JonHeyman expectation is jesus montero will be called up in a couple weeks. jorge wont be happy, but wont be cut, either. #yankees

  164. UnKnown August 2nd, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    So what exactly will Phil have to do for it to be considered a really good start and one that will keep him in the rotation?

    7inns 4 hits 2 runs or how about 8 inns 5 hits 3 runs

    Expectations are what?….

  165. LGY August 2nd, 2011 at 3:06 pm

    Pitchers can be successful at 90-92.

    Pitchers who have an arm problem that is keeping them below their normal velocity are very unlikely to be successful.

  166. Giuseppe Franco August 2nd, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    I’ll hold out on my excitement for Montero until he’s actually called up.

    After all, it is Heyman reporting it.

  167. Shame Spencer August 2nd, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    I really cannot wait until Montero makes his debut.

    Should be a fun time around the blog when that happens.

  168. Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    pat-not since ’96? I’m sure those games will have healthy attendance records. ;)

  169. Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    Of course they wouldn’t cut Posada. More brillaint insight from Heyman. :roll:

  170. CountryClub August 2nd, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    Take it with a grain of salt:

    SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
    expectation is jesus montero will be called up in a couple weeks. jorge wont be happy, but wont be cut, either

  171. West Coast Yankee Fan August 2nd, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    “I said his lack of command and lack of velocity is very likely tied to the same problem. So until he can pump it at 94 his command will still be poor.”

    ******************

    What evidence do you have of this.

  172. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    WCYF,

    No but you aren’t going to be successful throwing 91 with poor command and below average secondary pitches either……those examples of guys that are successful without 94 invariably either have great command, great secondary orderings, great movement, and great experience ……or.some combination of those things.

  173. Giuseppe Franco August 2nd, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    # UnKnown August 2nd, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    So what exactly will Phil have to do for it to be considered a really good start and one that will keep him in the rotation?

    7inns 4 hits 2 runs or how about 8 inns 5 hits 3 runs

    Expectations are what?….

    ———

    At this point, probably more consistency. The powers that be have their own criteria and expectations in mind when evaluating him going forward.

  174. Carlo August 2nd, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    Does it not make sense to bring Montero up sooner than later so they can get a decent sample size and thus leave them better informed to know what they need if anything come the last week of august when the waiver deadline expires?

  175. SoS August 2nd, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    Couple weeks?!! Any longer and he will be a september call up. Whats taking so damn long! The deadline is old news. Bring up our prize already!!

  176. LGY August 2nd, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    What evidence do you have of this.

    —–

    The way the ball has been coming out of his hand is not normal. There is no life, his velocity is down, his command is poor, and his arm strength is not improving.

    When the ball is not coming out of your hand normal it affects everything.

    Until his arm is normal he won’t be able to throw the ball right.

  177. Bronx Jeers August 2nd, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    Bronx ? From NJ? Yes. Girl? Definitely. Nice? Debatable.

    ———————————————————————-

    Good to know. Forget I ever called you evil. :wink:

  178. Tyler August 2nd, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    Carlo August 2nd, 2011 at 3:12 pm
    Does it not make sense to bring Montero up sooner than later so they can get a decent sample size and thus leave them better informed to know what they need if anything come the last week of august when the waiver deadline expires?
    —————————–

    I bet he’s up within 2 weeks. I think they will let him stay in AAA a little longer to get back in the groove and then call him up.

  179. 108 stitches August 2nd, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    I get the feeling that Montero won’t make his big league debut until the rosters are expanded on 9/1. In order to be part of the postseason roster, he would have to be on the 25-man roster on August 31st when the rosters are submitted to the Commissioner’s office. Only an injury to Cervelli could change it.

  180. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    “Does it not make sense to bring Montero up sooner than later so they can get a decent sample size and thus leave them better informed to know what they need if anything come the last week of august when the waiver deadline expires?”

    Yes IMO…..if they are bringing him up then its because they think he can make them in the playoffs…….so if that’s true then they should get him up ASAP so that they can give him.as much time as they can to get up to speed in the bigs.

  181. Giuseppe Franco August 2nd, 2011 at 3:17 pm

    Sooner or later, the argument that “Hughes won 18 games last season” won’t be good enough anymore if he can’t get hitters out consistently.

    At this point, winning ballgames trumps development and letting guys work through their struggles.

    I’m not a guy who buries struggling players ad nauseum day after day like others in here do but there may come a point where the team decides that Hughes’ season is lost and moves him to the pen.

    Can’t say that I have a ton of confidence in Ayala and Wade going forward, especially Ayala.

  182. Vineyard Yankee August 2nd, 2011 at 3:17 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan August 2nd, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    He’s an M.D. wanna be ?

  183. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 3:17 pm

    Help them in the playoffs…….

  184. pat August 2nd, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    rnpr826 @Ledger_Yankees With all the criticism the #Yankees take about pitching, they still lead the AL in ERA+. #reality

  185. G-C August 2nd, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    LGY,

    Great point.

    You’re absolutely correct.

    Only an astute observer of pitching would be able to grasp that :)

  186. West Coast Yankee Fan August 2nd, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    blake August 2nd, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    WCYF, No but you aren’t going to be successful throwing 91 with poor command and below average secondary pitches either……those examples of guys that are successful without 94 invariably either have great command, great secondary orderings, great movement, and great experience ……or.some combination of those things.

    ***************

    I wa stalking about his fastball. But you are exactly right, a pitcher has to have good command to start with — and the more ancillary support attributes you have the better. Secondary pitches, throwing a breaking ball for strikes, movement, changing a hitter’s eye line, etc. The great ones, Halladay, Maddux have/had it all.

  187. CountryClub August 2nd, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    I agree with others that Montero won’t come up until 9/1. If they wanted him up sooner, he would have come up after the trade deadline. I guess you can say they were worried about jeter’s hand. So if they get through tonight and Jeter is OK and Montero still doesnt get called up…..we’re looking at 9/1 (IMO).

  188. Irreverent Discourse August 2nd, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    SI_JonHeyman hey guys, i know the trade deadline is over and i didn’t get a single thing right… but you still love me right? #makingstuffupabouttheyankees

  189. West Coast Yankee Fan August 2nd, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    LGY August 2nd, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    The way the ball has been coming out of his hand is not normal. There is no life, his velocity is down, his command is poor, and his arm strength is not improving.

    When the ball is not coming out of your hand normal it affects everything. Until his arm is normal he won’t be able to throw the ball right.

    ************

    That is not evidence that is conjecture.

  190. GreenBeret7 August 2nd, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    The new Trenton rotation. Also, look for a call-up from Tampa to fill Banuelos’ spot

    Betances tonight, Stoneburner tomorrow then Hall, Garrison, Heyer

  191. Vineyard Yankee August 2nd, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    “Does it not make sense to bring Montero up sooner than later so they can get a decent sample size and thus leave them better informed to know what they need if anything come the last week of august when the waiver deadline expires?”

    =============

    Yes, because the production at the plate from the Catching and DH positions is poor and has been for some time. In general all these prospects in the Yankee system that are worth salt need the opportunity to get their feet wet at the ML level. Montero sooner than later.

  192. Captain Clutch August 2nd, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    I wonder what the Yanks are waiting for to bring up Montero?? Give the kid a chance already.

  193. joeman August 2nd, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    # Shame Spencer August 2nd, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    I really cannot wait until Montero makes his debut.

    Should be a fun time around the blog when that happens.
    ————————
    loads of fun…the great Montero

  194. GreenBeret7 August 2nd, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    montero’s not going to be dropped into the middle of that Boston snakepit to start his career.

  195. joeman August 2nd, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    # GreenBeret7 August 2nd, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    montero’s not going to be dropped into the middle of that Boston snakepit to start his career.
    ————————–
    if he’s as good as most here think he is why should it matter who they are playing

  196. lounge lizard August 2nd, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    With Alex back shortly, the 25 man will be very tight. There simply isn’t room for Montero before 9/1 unless Cervell gets sent down and Montero made the backup.

    Post season roster choices could be tough.

  197. LGY August 2nd, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    That is not evidence that is conjecture.

    —–

    So his lack of velocity, life, and arm strength is normal?

  198. DocTodd August 2nd, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    Looks like Cashman is trying to keep Montero’s trade value high for the Winter meetings by keeping him in AAA….(sarcasm)…..jeez,bring the kid up already…..

  199. LGY August 2nd, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    I personally don’t care about winning the division so I’m ok with sticking with Hughes and seeing if his arm strength gets any better.

    The most important thing is setting the team up for the playoffs. They won’t give Nova a start over AJ in October.

    If Hughes can get right, they might give the ball to him in game 4.

  200. Tyler August 2nd, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    I’m so excited for Montero to be called up but so not excited for when he makes his first out with runners in scoring position, and is labeled a bust by certain people on here….

  201. Giuseppe Franco August 2nd, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    # joeman August 2nd, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    ————————–
    if he’s as good as most here think he is why should it matter who they are playing

    ————

    That’s what you seem to be waiting for – don’t even give the kid a chance to succeed and throw him into the lion’s den from Day 1.

    Then you can pound your chest if he doesn’t rake immediately, which justifies why you’ve wanted him traded away the last three seasons.

    Sound about right?

  202. LGY August 2nd, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    G-C

    :lol:

  203. Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    Gossip Break:

    warning-nothing new if you’ve seen the DJ3K doc.

    http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20514813,00.html

  204. West Coast Yankee Fan August 2nd, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    LGY August 2nd, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    So his lack of velocity, life, and arm strength is normal?

    ***********

    His velocity is much improved. He had shoulder inflammation issues if you remember and rest was prescribed. He went from 88-89 to 91-92 and has hit 93 early in his starts. This is normal as he builds back his arm strength – from comments I have heard from David Cone and Jack Curry.

    Last game, the YES announcers specifically talked about his fastball looking good; the problem was command and they showed more than a few times on replay where he would often miss the catchers glove by a lot.

    It all starts with command of his fastball, the other ancillary issues like his curve, etc., are secondary to his fastball command.

  205. SoS August 2nd, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    Wasnt Melky’s debut vs. the sox?

  206. austinmac August 2nd, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    This is an interesting night, pitching wise with Jughes, Banuelos and Betances going. Okay gang, who of them will have the best statistical night? I go Betances.

  207. LGY August 2nd, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    His velocity hasn’t improved since coming off the DL.

    That’s what we are talking about.

  208. austinmac August 2nd, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    “Hughes”

  209. Warning Track Power August 2nd, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    Hello All
    Is everybody having a good day?

    Are we discussing how C.C. won another game last night?

    News update:
    Phil Hughes has arrived at Cellular Field-
    Let’s discuss

  210. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    GB-

    Who will be in the SWB rotation besides Warren, Mitchell, Banuelos. Phelps is still on DL, I believe. Looks like Pendleton and Kontos have filled in.

    Any word if Tim Norton is improving?

  211. mick August 2nd, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    Montero is not a plaything for your entertainment.
    This is not a Broadway show.
    Think longterm …

  212. Tyler August 2nd, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    SoS August 2nd, 2011 at 3:41 pm
    Wasnt Melky’s debut vs. the sox?
    ———————-

    I don’t think his actual first game was but I know that he played against them that first season he was called up. He misplayed that ball in center at Fenway into an inside the park homerun. I think the Yanks lost that game like 17-1 or something ridiculous.

  213. Bronx Jeers August 2nd, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    Yes Montero’s eventual call up will be an interesting test for this forum.

    Not that anyone should give a crap what anyone in here thinks.

  214. Warning Track Power August 2nd, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    Are you kidding?
    As soon as Montero is called up and pops up to the catcher in his 1st at bat, the forum here
    will rip the kid to shreds and compare him to Bobby Meacham

  215. mick August 2nd, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    until alex comes back they need a utility IF…

  216. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    austinmac August 2nd, 2011 at 3:41 pm
    This is an interesting night, pitching wise with Jughes, Banuelos and Betances going. Okay gang, who of them will have the best statistical night? I go Betances.
    ————————————–
    I’m hoping Hughes has a repeat of 2010 in his one game he pitched against the WS-7 innings of 4 hit shutout ball, 6 strikeouts.

    Hughes, AJ, and Nova. Hope they all pitch lights out in Chicago, and I hope the offense provides more run support than the 3 runs in the 1st 3 innings against Peavy, some aided by the worst 2010/2011 off-season signing in baseball-Adam Dunn.

  217. West Coast Yankee Fan August 2nd, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    LGY August 2nd, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    His velocity hasn’t improved since coming off the DL. That’s what we are talking about.

    ***************

    So what? It has been a handful of games. The important thing is that he went from 88-89 before the DL and 91-92 when he returned.

    His velocity has improved, he changed the grip on his curve ball and it’s improved. His problem is command of his fastball. When he gets hit it leaks in over the plate, often when the catcher is setting up outside or inside.

    FYI – He has always thrown a four-seamer, movement was never his thing.

  218. West Coast Yankee Fan August 2nd, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    Warning Track Power August 2nd, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    Are you kidding? As soon as Montero is called up and pops up to the catcher in his 1st at bat, the forum here will rip the kid to shreds and compare him to Bobby Meacham.

    ************

    I cannot even imagine this blog if Montero throws an ofer-ten up there.

  219. 108 stitches August 2nd, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    A starter and a reliever require different mindsets.
    A starter must know the value of pitching as economical as possible and somewhat pace himself. Some changes are needed for the 2nd time around a lineup.
    A reliever leading up to a closer can go full throttle knowing he’ll not likely get more than 2 innings.
    The Phil Hughes of 2009 was outstanding as an 8th inning guy knowing that even if he threw in excess of 20 pitches, he would not likely be called upon to work the next day.

  220. Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    JonLaneNYC @NickSwisher will release his debut album, a kids LP called ‘Believe,’ Aug. 9 to benefit Swish’s Wishes http://bit.ly/n5U2At

  221. ac1 August 2nd, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    Once Alex is back, the bench can go back to what it was at the beginning of the season
    Nunez, Chavez, Jones and the BUC (Montero c/dh)-hopefully)…

  222. Warning Track Power August 2nd, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    ac1 August 2nd, 2011 at 3:56 pm
    Once Alex is back, the bench can go back to what it was at the beginning of the season
    Nunez, Chavez, Jones and the BUC (Montero c/dh)-hopefully)…
    ******************************************************
    Where is Posada???

  223. ac1 August 2nd, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    Hughes should not be sent to the pen, only AAA. He is a starter and sending him to a bullpen which is doing just fine already makes little sense. If Nova beats him out, just send him back to AAA and let him work on his stuff. We need him starting long term….

  224. Tom in N.J. August 2nd, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    Nick Swisher recorded an album? WTF?

  225. ac1 August 2nd, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    Once Alex is back, the bench can go back to what it was at the beginning of the season
    Nunez, Chavez, Jones and the BUC (Montero c/dh)-hopefully)…
    ******************************************************
    Where is Posada???

    ___

    Posada was in the starting lineup as the DH.

  226. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    FYI – He has always thrown a four-seamer, movement was never his thing.

    Even though its a 4-seamer, Hughes relies on getting swing and misses with it. ‘Late life’ ‘subtle movement’ whatever you wanna call it.

  227. Tom in N.J. August 2nd, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35cxb0ppVcU

  228. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    Updated: August 2, 2011 2:13AM Chicago Sun Times

    The last guy the White Sox can stand to be without, Paul Konerko, likely will miss at least one more start tonight.

    ‘‘I don’t expect PK to play tomorrow, either,’’ manager Ozzie Guillen said before the game Monday. ‘‘That’s a manager’s expectation. This kid got hit pretty good. It’s very sore right now. Those guys in the lineup have to step it up a notch until he comes back.’’

    Konerko described his leg as ‘‘real stiff, real sore.’’

    ‘It’s definitely painful. It got me in a good spot that makes it tough to even walk.’’

  229. randy l. August 2nd, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    “montero’s not going to be dropped into the middle of that Boston snakepit to start his career.”

    the big problem is his size. the pathetic excuse for a visiting locker room is too small for him. they are only taking little players.

  230. Warning Track Power August 2nd, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    YT-
    I want Dunn at 1st base again. The guy was horrible last night. Reminded me of an over 40-beer league softball 1st basemen.

  231. Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    Tom-thanks for the link.

    That Swish can do it all. :)

  232. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    I would love it if Montero started in Boston, Monstero vs Green Monster. Better than any Godzilla movie you saw.

  233. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    Except for Godzilla vs the Smog Monster.

  234. I Like Inge August 2nd, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    Warning Track Power August 2nd, 2011 at 4:02 pm
    YT-
    I want Dunn at 1st base again. The guy was horrible last night. Reminded me of an over 40-beer league softball 1st basemen.

    —————

    My wife was watching the game last night and she caught Dunn whiffing. she couldn’t believe that “fat old guy” is a baseball player. I told him how much he makes and she just shook her head.

  235. DaveD August 2nd, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    Giuseppe Franco August 2nd, 2011 at 3:17 pm

    Sooner or later, the argument that “Hughes won 18 games last season” won’t be good enough anymore if he can’t get hitters out consistently.

    At this point, winning ballgames trumps development and letting guys work through their struggles.

    I’m not a guy who buries struggling players ad nauseum day after day like others in here do but there may come a point where the team decides that Hughes’ season is lost and moves him to the pen.

    Can’t say that I have a ton of confidence in Ayala and Wade going forward, especially Ayala.

    —————

    couldn’t agree more

  236. tomingeorgia August 2nd, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    JF,
    You didn’t like Godzilla vs Mothra?

  237. Tom in N.J. August 2nd, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    Godzilla vs the Green Monster was good too…

  238. igotid88 August 2nd, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    I hope people understand that Hughes was having a good year starting in 09 in place of Wang. And was put into the pen because Wang came back. And was kept in the bullpen even though Wang didn’t do well coming back. So even though he was great in the bullpen he missed out on about 30 or 40 innings. Which led to his innings limit last year. Which led to his arm tiring early this year.

  239. Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    jnorris427 So the Cashman will be here to take in MannyMania. Fun times.

  240. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Mothra is overrated. I wonder if Cashman is there to tell Montero he has been called up in person.

  241. GreenBeret7 August 2nd, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2011 at 3:44 pm
    GB-

    Who will be in the SWB rotation besides Warren, Mitchell, Banuelos. Phelps is still on DL, I believe. Looks like Pendleton and Kontos have filled in.

    Any word if Tim Norton is improving?

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Trader, that’s the way the Scranton rotation lines up, but, they also have Greg Smith to fit in there. I’m guessing either Pendleton or Smith goes to the pen. Last I read on Norton’s return was that he was throwing side sessions. That was about a week to 10 days ago. Have heard nothing on Phelps, lately. Perhaps Chad has more current info on them.

  242. Tom in N.J. August 2nd, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Think Cash will bring Montero home with him?

  243. Howard August 2nd, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Id rather Montero didn’t have to make his first start worrying about Beckett breaking his ribs to cure some of the hype.

    No thanks. I’d rather he make a start that’s a lot less pressurized, thus to avoid the backlash if he goes 1-14 or something horrible, that’s surely going to happen here.

  244. Howard August 2nd, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    They’re not calling him up until they gain that extra year of arbitration.

  245. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    I still remember Cano’s debut, he was like 0 for 14 and 2 for 32 or something. He turned out alright.

  246. Howard August 2nd, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    I still remember Cano?s debut, he was like 0 for 14 and 2 for 32 or something. He turned out alright.

    Not disagreeing at all. Just saying, you know this place, and he’ll be hung out to dry if it starts that way. Afterall, we are still waiting on those multiple batting titles and MVP years from Cano, so patience is in order with Montero as well. :)

  247. Howard August 2nd, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    Look at Hughes:
    Half the fans find stats to hate him, and the other half find the stats to love him. Based on what, a few years in the league? NY fans are as fickle as they come sometimes.

    PS: Hughes will be fine. Maybe not this year, and maybe not with the Yankees, but he’s too talented to just have forgotten how to pitch or get guys out. Same applies to most of the young pitchers who are having problems right now. Anyone think Price won’t get better? Or Buchholz is going to stay hurt? Young guys get tired, and hurt, and the full seasons wear on them. Hughes will be fine.

  248. LGY August 2nd, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    They’re not calling him up until they gain that extra year of arbitration.

    ——

    That was months ago.

  249. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    Young guys get tired, and hurt, and the full seasons wear on them. Hughes will be fine.

    Yea, but as you said it becomes less likely this happens with the Yankees. I wish the Yankees could get a starting prospect to actually pitch for the yankees in their youth. I want a new Wang! A horse Wang. One that goes long and performs well.

  250. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    Attached a comprehensive website I just discovered comparing teams side by side, by offense, defense, and pitching.

    Up to date side-by-side comparison of Yankees-Red Sox:

    http://2011-mlb-team.pikimal.c.....-red-sox-2

  251. Warning Track Power August 2nd, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 4:16 pm
    I still remember Cano’s debut, he was like 0 for 14 and 2 for 32 or something. He turned out alright.
    ********************************************************************
    True. I can still remember how much he struggled to begin his 1st year. I think he started to get hot when the team played on the west coast(specifically vs. the oakland a’s)

  252. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    The limit for an extra year of control before FA is like 15 days, so that is long gone, and the Super-2 deadline was around the first 2 weeks of May, so also long gone

  253. hardwired7 August 2nd, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Cano was replacing Tony Womack.

    He could have gone 0 for his first 100, run over my dog and tried to sleep w/my wife, and I’d be OK w/that.

  254. Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    hardwired7 August 2nd, 2011 at 4:26 pm
    Cano was replacing Tony Womack.

    He could have gone 0 for his first 100, run over my dog and tried to sleep w/my wife, and I?d be OK w/that.

    ***********************

    OMG. :lol:

  255. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Erin isn’t suddenly a fan of polygamy, but Canogamy

  256. Howard August 2nd, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Cano was replacing Tony Womack.

    He could have gone 0 for his first 100, run over my dog and tried to sleep w/my wife, and I?d be OK w/that.
    ___________

    Hahaha.

    And, you guys are right about the time line. I guess they would just rather him play than struggle at this level then, which as soon as big league pitchers see him and adjust, he will. Bring him up when A. The wild card is definitely locked up for good, or B. injury.
    That’s it. Otherwise, leave him where he is and let him mature with his skills a little more. There is no need for him right now. They’re a top team right now.

  257. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    The Yankees have a 7 game lead in the wild card, its locked up for good.

  258. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    Getting him up now isn’t just for this season, but seasons going forward. He will get his feet wet this year and still have 6 years of team control.

  259. Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 4:32 pm
    Erin isn?t suddenly a fan of polygamy, but Canogamy

    ***************************

    :D

  260. Wave Your Hat August 2nd, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    “Cano was replacing Tony Womack.”

    People believe this but it isn’t what happened. Cano replaced Andy Phillips.

  261. Howard August 2nd, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    The Yankees have a 7 game lead in the wild card, its locked up for good..

    You don’t think the Angels can be six or seven games better than Boston or NY in a month…with that staff? Man, I do.

  262. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    You don’t think the Angels can be six or seven games better than Boston or NY in a month…with that staff? Man, I do.

    Yea I don’t think they are going to win 8 more games than the Yankees or 9 more games than the Red Sox in the next 2 months.

  263. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    If the Yankees play .500 ball they win 93 games. Angels have to play .640 ball the rest of the way just to tie.

  264. Irreverent Discourse August 2nd, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    Jered Weaver was suspended six games and fined an undisclosed amount for throwing at Alex Avila’s head during Sunday’s game against the Tigers.

    So Weaver instantly gets 6 games, meanwhile Big Poopi can start a brawl on a pitch that was no where near hitting him and initially only got 5 games?

    What a joke the MLB front office is.

  265. Howard August 2nd, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    Yea I don?t think they are going to win 8 more games than the Yankees or 9 more games than the Red Sox in the next 2 months.
    ______________

    Okay, that’s fine. I really have no idea if they will or not, but if you’re asking me can they, then yes, they can. Especially when we have to go there. They sweep that, and suddenly it’s a much different ballgame, no?
    I’m just not quite ready to call anything yet. Kudos to you for being that confident.

  266. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    Its a 7 game lead, how big a lead do you need before you think its locked up? Sure the Angels could, in theory, win the wild card. Really doubt it though. The Yankees pitch just as well as the Angels with a better bullpen and offense. Phillies excepted, most teams don’t win huge amount of games with just pitching.

  267. Howard August 2nd, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    So Weaver instantly gets 6 games, meanwhile Big Poopi can start a brawl on a pitch that was no where near hitting him and initially only got 5 games?

    What a joke the MLB front office is.

    ________________

    Did you even watch this? It was the single most demonstrative display by a pitcher as I’ve seen in years. He blatantly cursed at the ump, his coaches, and clearly tried to hit someone in the head, which is a little different than a guy charging.
    And, that Orioles guy was tossed well before Ortiz ever charged for being demonstrative, on top of which, no punches were landed.

    Or do you just need something to be pretend mad at?

  268. Crawdaddy August 2nd, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Most starting pitchers will get a six game suspension because it guarantees that they miss one start.

  269. Howard August 2nd, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    the Yankees play .500 ball they win 93 games. Angels have to play .640 ball the rest of the way just to tie.

    Agreed, it’s a stretch. I’m just not calling it impossible.

  270. LGY August 2nd, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Russell Martin has basically been Tony Womack offensively since the end of April.

    That’s how bad he has been.

  271. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    The Orioles pitcher was tossed for being ‘demonstrative’ ??? How is that a tossing offense. Surprised Lincecum didn’t get tossed and banned in the playoffs last year then :)

  272. Irreverent Discourse August 2nd, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    Howard – That’s a pretty rosey recall of those 2 scenarios. Yes I did watch them. Avila did not get hit. Papi did not get hit. One of them started a fight. One of them also throws punches like a girl.

  273. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    Agreed, it’s a stretch. I’m just not calling it impossible.

    Its not impossible, but by the criteria you set for potentially calling up Montero its pretty much met. If they don’t call him up in August he likely comes up anyways Sept 1 where the Wild Card isn’t going to be any less in doubt. Just seems like a really arbitrary stipulation. He isn’t replacing Martin, he is replacing Cervelli.

  274. Irreverent Discourse August 2nd, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    Derek Jeter (finger) is back in the Yankees’ lineup Tuesday night against the White Sox.
    Aug 2, 4:56 PM
    Source: Newark Star-Ledger on Twitter

  275. Wave Your Hat August 2nd, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    “He isn’t replacing Martin, he is replacing Cervelli.”

    Of course, if Montero could replace Cervelli, the way Martin is hitting he might as well replace Martin while he’s at it.

  276. Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    New Post w/lineup

    :arrow:

  277. hardwired7 August 2nd, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    courtesy of wiki:

    “Canó was called up to the Major Leagues on May 3, 2005, while hitting .333 in 108 at bats in AAA, and took over second base from Tony Womack”

  278. Wave Your Hat August 2nd, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    ““Canó was called up to the Major Leagues on May 3, 2005, while hitting .333 in 108 at bats in AAA, and took over second base from Tony Womack”

    Yes, but Womack then moved into left field, Matsui moved to center, Bernie moved to DH and Phillips moved to oblivion.

  279. Jerkface August 2nd, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    “Canó was called up to the Major Leagues on May 3, 2005, while hitting .333 in 108 at bats in AAA, and took over second base from Tony Womack”

    Yea but Womack stayed on the roster and started playing LF, terrible signing

  280. Howard August 2nd, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    The Orioles pitcher was tossed for being ?demonstrative? ??? How is that a tossing offense. Surprised Lincecum didn?t get tossed and banned in the playoffs last year then

    No, the Orioles pitcher was tossed for sceaming at Ortiz, rightfully, as he ran towards first well before Ortiz ever charged the mound.

    ____________

    Howard ? That?s a pretty rosey recall of those 2 scenarios. Yes I did watch them. Avila did not get hit. Papi did not get hit. One of them started a fight. One of them also throws punches like a girl.

    ______________

    Man, you’re like a comedian. It’s actually not a “rosy” comparison at all. Avila would have gotten exactly what Ortiz got had he charged, and he would have appealed and gotten less just the same as Ortiz and the pitcher did. Only, that’s not how it happened, and when Weaver, who had already been warned, was tossed for going up and in intentionally, he threw a fissy, started cursing that the umpire and being restrained.
    There’s a difference, and I’m sorry you’re too stupid to see it.

  281. Howard August 2nd, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    Goodnight all, lets Hope tomorrow isn’t filled wiht the usual “Hughes sucks” rhetoric.

  282. Irreverent Discourse August 2nd, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    I’m too stupid to see it? OK Howard. ,.|..

  283. J. Alfred Prufrock August 2nd, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    montero’s not going to be dropped into the middle of that Boston snakepit to start his career.
    ————————–
    if he’s as good as most here think he is why should it matter who they are playing
    ///

    I could see that if he were a young pitcher. As a hitter, he’d only get maybe a pinch hit appearance here & there, any way. Maybe they’re crushing & they hit him when Boston brings in a hapless lefty from the BP. I don’t see why he can’t get his intro this weekend, but given the conservatism of the Yanks, we probably won’t see him yet.

  284. rl1856 August 2nd, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    I suppose I’m late to the Hughes discussion. I am rooting for him tonight and every night that he takes the ball. I think he has the talent to succeed in the MLB. Will he become a #1 ACE, I don’t know. Will he become a solid #2/3 ? Easily.

    I think he is suffering form the the Sophmore Slump/ Verducci effect or whatever you want to call it. Essentially a hangover from a significantly increased workload in 2010. Personally, I think it will take until 2012 for him to recover. I worry however that the team’s attempts to speed his recovery may ultimately prove counterproductive.

    During his DL stint, he rested, then began long toss, then 2 abbreviated rehab games, then back to the ML, then missed about 2 starts around the ASG then back in the rotation. With his start tonight, he is really at the end of spring training. In ST, it is not uncommon for a pitcher to dominate in 1 start then throw batting practice in the next, with velocity and control all over the place- which is what we have seen from him over the last few weeks. He should get a few more starts to establish consistency. If he is still struggling in mid Aug (another 2-3 starts) then a change may be needed.

    Tonight I am hoping to see his FB hitting 94, sitting @92, with a sharp curve. If he has both, you will see a lot of swing and miss strikes and a probable win.

  285. randy l. August 2nd, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    “Goodnight all, lets Hope tomorrow isn’t filled wiht the usual “Hughes sucks” rhetoric.”

    howard-

    why don’t you take your transparent red sox BS back to where you came from.

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