The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


The calm and the storm

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Aug 02, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

I don’t remember who brought it up last night, but it was a fair point: CC Sabathia and Francisco Cervelli don’t seem like perfect partners. Sabathia is calm and collected. He might let out a scream now and then, but his ability to stay emotionally centered is a big part of his persona on the mound. Cervelli is the opposite behind the plate with his constant fist pumps and over-the-top reactions.

Why is that Sabathia has been at his best since he’s been working with Cervelli?

“Because of that combination,” Sabathia said. “He’s got a lot of energy and he comes up to the mound a lot and makes sure that I’m finishing pitches and trying to be aggressive.”

There’s a solid chance that the real answer is this: It doesn’t matter how or why they work together.

Most days, I’m sure Sabathia could work with anyone and get results. He’s been pitching so well lately, he could probably pitch to my grandmother and still get guys out.* I don’t think Cervelli is the reason he’s been so good — and I wouldn’t say the results would be any worse with Martin behind the mound — but Sabathia does have some eye-opening stats during his games with Cervelli.

Cervelli’s been behind the plate for Sabathia 10 times this season. Sabathia has a 2.33 ERA with a .215 opponents batting average and a 3.95 strikeouts-to-walk ratio. Those numbers are quite a bit better than he had with Martin earlier this season.

Even if the Cervelli/Sabathia combination isn’t the reason for the success, they’re certainly fun to watch together. There’s something interesting about to icy cool of Sabathia, with the boiling-over excitement of Cervelli.

“I just try to keep him in the game, no matter what happened,” Cervelli said. “This is my game. I love this sport, and every time I’m there, I’m going to compete… I come here ready to catch every day. If they tell me it’s just with CC, that’s fine. But I come ready for everybody.”

* You know, my grandmother could probably call a pretty good game. I’m not sure she could actually catch the thing without be knocked over backwards, but she’s watched a lot of baseball in her life. I think she could hold her own.

Associated Press photos

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174 Responses to “The calm and the storm”

  1. MTU August 2nd, 2011 at 9:06 am

    “and I wouldn’t say the results would be any worse with Martin behind the mound”

    That would sure be different. New rules ?

    :)

  2. Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 9:07 am

    You know, my grandmother could probably call a pretty good game. I?m not sure she could actually catch the thing without be knocked over backwards,

    *********************

    :lol:

    I love the CC/Cervelli combo. They’ve always seemed to work well together-from ’09 on.

  3. MTU August 2nd, 2011 at 9:07 am

    Chad-

    You’re right. CC could pitch to your Granny. He’s that good.

    :)

  4. ac1 August 2nd, 2011 at 9:07 am

    Hopefully with Montero knocking, Martin/Cervelli/Posada will pick up their offense a bit too…

  5. 86w183 August 2nd, 2011 at 9:08 am

    My grandmother would be a disaster back there — calls for way too many change ups.

    Cervelli is playing his best ball lately, which has made the team better when he’s out there and has to be helping Martin. Joe should have had him bunt last night with two on, no out.

  6. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2011 at 9:08 am

    The Calm and the Storm
    —————————
    Will it be The Calm Before the Storm, when Montero is brought up and Posada is relegated to the bench??

  7. MTU August 2nd, 2011 at 9:09 am

    I’d rather CC were pitching to Jesus Montero.

  8. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 9:09 am

    Good post and it is interesting……I also think its more coincidence than anything else but in baseball the last thing you want to do is mess with a good thing.

  9. MG August 2nd, 2011 at 9:10 am

    it will be really interesting to read the comments on this blog when and if Montero comes up and struggles for awhile.

    No one will blame him, it will either be Girardi not using properly, Long not working enough with him, yadda, yadda, yadda…

    it’s not easy for a kid to make the jump to the majors in the middle of a pennant race, the expectations here are so high there is almost nothing he could do to make many of you happy.

    And the Yankees aren’t dumping Posada to bring up Montero-Jorge is hitting the ball pretty well (over .300 in his last 10 games) and is exactly the kind of veteran bat a contender needs down the stretch and in the playoffs.

  10. Tom in N.J. August 2nd, 2011 at 9:10 am

    My grandmother could catch, it’s the getting back up part that would be tough.

  11. MTU August 2nd, 2011 at 9:11 am

    Personal catcher thing is BS imo.

    Didn’t AJ have one too ? How’d that work out ?

    :)

  12. ac1 August 2nd, 2011 at 9:11 am

    You know it is not impossible for CC to win 25 games this year….
    Damn Verlander for matching him win for win and K for K…

  13. Crawdaddy August 2nd, 2011 at 9:11 am

    “I’d rather CC were pitching to Jesus Montero.”

    Not this season, CC and Cervelli are doing too well for me to want it to change mid-season.

  14. Crawdaddy August 2nd, 2011 at 9:12 am

    “Personal catcher thing is BS imo.”

    Tell that to certain pitchers.

  15. ac1 August 2nd, 2011 at 9:12 am

    And the Yankees aren’t dumping Posada to bring up Montero-Jorge is hitting the ball pretty well (over .300 in his last 10 games) and is exactly the kind of veteran bat a contender needs down the stretch and in the playoffs.

    ___

    Posada won’t be dumped.
    Cervelli will be sent back to AAA, until September call ups, unless they wait until September to bring up Montero.

  16. MTU August 2nd, 2011 at 9:12 am

    MG-

    Not everyone’s expectations are out of line.

    It wouldn’t take much for Montero to surpass Cervelli.

    :)

  17. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 9:13 am

    “it will be really interesting to read the comments on this blog when and if Montero comes up and struggles for awhile.”

    It has to be expected ……he may struggle for awhile……or he may get off to a good start with big leaguers throwing him fastballs at first……then he may struggle when they adjust to him…….but there will be a struggle period at some point so Yankee fans need to prepare themselves……same holds true when Banuelos and Betances come up down the road.

  18. upstate kate August 2nd, 2011 at 9:14 am

    Cervelli hits very well w/ RISP

  19. Benny Blanco August 2nd, 2011 at 9:14 am

    One thing we have to see is if montero’s game calling skills match cervelli’s and martin’s? we wont know until he gets here.

  20. MTU August 2nd, 2011 at 9:15 am

    CC is good enough to pitch to anyone.

    Let’s bring up Mr. Anyone Montero.

    :)

  21. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2011 at 9:16 am

    MTU August 2nd, 2011 at 9:09 am
    I’d rather CC were pitching to Jesus Montero.
    ———————————-
    If CC can pitch to some of your grandmothers he certainly can pitch to MonStero. I’m with you MTU!!

  22. MaineYankee August 2nd, 2011 at 9:16 am

    Chad

    Can your Grandmother throw?

  23. MG August 2nd, 2011 at 9:17 am

    blake, completely agree with you, as always…

  24. MTU August 2nd, 2011 at 9:17 am

    Just saw a recent Photo of Jesus.

    Cobwebs and all.

    He was holding a sign that read, “Please free me. I can catch. Let me prove it.”

    :)

  25. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2011 at 9:18 am

    It has to be expected ……he may struggle for awhile.

    Let me finish Blake’s comment………or he may be another Buster Posey and fit like a glove!!

  26. MTU August 2nd, 2011 at 9:19 am

    YT-

    you’re out there on the island with me.

    Poor guy.

    :(

  27. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 9:19 am

    “Damn Verlander for matching him win for win and K for K…!

    I might trade the whole minor leagues to have CC and Verlander in the same rotation…..

  28. LGY August 2nd, 2011 at 9:20 am

    Tell that to certain pitchers

    ——-

    Do you think CC would rather throw to Cervelli than Martin?

  29. MaineYankee August 2nd, 2011 at 9:21 am

    blake August 2nd, 2011 at 9:00 am
    If they take Hughes out of the rotation and make that decision then Id like to see them send him down…..maybe below AAA and just start over more or less……however the problem with that is there isn’t much minor league season left this year to work on things

    ——————————————————————————————–

    The thing that concerns me the most about Hughes is that he is tinkering with his mechanics still.

  30. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 9:21 am

    Trader,

    Its possible and that’s what we hope for…..but if he does struggle then folks need to understand that that’s a normal thing.

  31. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2011 at 9:22 am

    MTU

    Just waiting for Prufrock, GB, Jerkface and many others to wake up, to join us on the island

  32. MaineYankee August 2nd, 2011 at 9:22 am

    LGY August 2nd, 2011 at 9:20 am
    Tell that to certain pitchers

    ——-

    Do you think CC would rather throw to Cervelli than Martin?

    ————————————————————-

    My guess is it doesn’t matter.

  33. MG August 2nd, 2011 at 9:24 am

    blake, just read any of the recent game threads (if you dare) and the complaints about every AB and every pitch.

    The baseball IQ on those threads has reached epidemically low levels, to the point where a Posada single is ridiculed.

    I can just imagine how a Montero 0-fer with a couple of K’s would be handled…

  34. 108 stitches August 2nd, 2011 at 9:25 am

    It’s sort of a quagmire if Montero is called up. If Cervelli is to be kept then Luis Ayala is sent down. How much playing time does Montero get ? Alex will be back in possibly 2 weeks. Is Cervelli a better hitter and reserve infielder than Brandon Laird when called upon ?
    Does Phil Hughes go to the bullpen if tonight’s start is a laboring one and less than a quality one ? Need to see one more start from Nova before any decision is made.
    Lots of teams would like to be in this position.

  35. Ys Guy August 2nd, 2011 at 9:27 am

    Just another reAson they won’t be sending Franco down to make room for jesus

  36. upstate kate August 2nd, 2011 at 9:27 am

    CC is always complimentary to his catchers. I don’t think it really matters to him who catches him. He and Cervelli do work well together, which gives Martin a break. No reason to think he wouldn’t have success w/ Montero as well.

  37. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2011 at 9:28 am

    Do you think CC would rather throw to Cervelli than Martin?
    —————————————
    No, I don’t think he cares, as you do.

    However, maybe he wished for a “tiny” bit more run support last night other than the 3 runs in the 1st 2 innings.

    Oh I can see it now-Monstero banging doubles off the green Monster, with a few moon shots over it into the streets beyond!!

  38. ron August 2nd, 2011 at 9:29 am

    I just can’t see montero getting many ab with the remaining games being so important & the lack of experience.

    They might bring him up after the AAA season because it won’t matter, but for montero to catch cc,burnett,hughes,colon,garcia now,at this point in the season is risky.

    Is his bat important enough to throw him in the mix now & take ab away from posada,jones,cervelli,martin?

    It’s hard for me to imagine montero replacing cervelli or posada.

    Can you picture montero going to the mound to talk to cc,or anybody at this point in the season?

  39. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2011 at 9:31 am

    3 runs in the 1st 3 innings..

  40. MTU August 2nd, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Wether you bring Jesus up now or later it’s likely he will struggle at some point.

    It’s to be expected and no amount of MiLB is gonna change that.

    Time for him to dip his beak and get his feet wet.

    As some have said maybe he surprises and does really, really well.

    That’s possible too.

    The bar is set pretty low with Cervelli as competition.

  41. LGY August 2nd, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Trader

    Oh, I don’t care and like MTU I think the personal catcher stuff is complete BS. It’s probably the thing I least like about Girardi as a manager.

    I was just trying to get Crawdaddy to see the logical end of his post.

  42. Ys Guy August 2nd, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Huge will go to the bp, ayala to scranton.

  43. Laura - I Bleed Blue August 2nd, 2011 at 9:33 am

    I’m against the notion of personal catchers and I submit to you that CC would have pitched just as well with Martin as he has with Cervelli. I know this because in the FRINGE alternate universe, Martin caught all of CC’s games and CC has the same record. :P

  44. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2011 at 9:33 am

    Can you picture montero going to the mound to talk to cc,or anybody at this point in the season?
    ————————-
    Pretty much so-Yes!

  45. upstate kate August 2nd, 2011 at 9:38 am

    Laura
    can you go to the game again tonight and bring some more good luck?!

  46. MTU August 2nd, 2011 at 9:39 am

    Some of us thought that Montero might be traded.

    Now that he hasn’t been it’s time to see what he can do for us.

    :)

  47. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2011 at 9:39 am

    No, I don’t think he cares, as you do.
    ————————-

    LGY. I was never an English major.
    Wrong phrasing there.
    I knew you felt the same way, not as you do[think it matters] LOL

  48. MTU August 2nd, 2011 at 9:39 am

    Montero is the only catcher we have who is big enough to almost talk face to face with CC.

    :)

  49. Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 9:41 am

    Laura-congratulations! You broke the curse! :)

  50. LGY August 2nd, 2011 at 9:41 am

    Trader

    lol. My bad. :)

  51. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2011 at 9:43 am

    LGY-

    Actually I’m glad you spoke up and brought it to my attention. Can see where it got misconstrued. :)

  52. Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 9:46 am

    The bar is set pretty low with Cervelli as competition.

    ========================

    Martin too.

  53. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2011 at 9:49 am

    It will be an interesting 3 games against the WS with Hughes-AJ-Nova pitching. I imagine it might wait until after Nova’s start and seeing what the offense does against the WS 3 best pitchers, for Girardi and Cashman to decide what changes will be made for the Boston series.

  54. pat August 2nd, 2011 at 9:51 am

    I think it’s more a case of Martin needs a day off and CC doesn’t care who he throws to so the pairing works best for the team which is really the important part.

    When your stuff is good enough and you believe in yourself enough, who’s catching really doesn’t matter.

  55. Ys Guy August 2nd, 2011 at 9:52 am

    if you think martin sets a low bar with the bat lets see if montero can even hold martin’s *mitt* behind the plate.

  56. Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 9:53 am

    Huge will go to the bp, ayala to scranton.

    ========================

    I assume you mean Hughes, and you’re probably right. Sad part is that he might not only inherit Ayala’s spot in the pen, but also his role. Hard to imagine him getting any high leverage spots at this point, though I suppose he could depending on how Soriano fares as he makes his way back.

  57. pat August 2nd, 2011 at 9:53 am

    Laura

    You were the first thing I thought of after the last out. Congratulations! You are off the snide.

  58. Yankee Trader August 2nd, 2011 at 9:56 am

    Hope Hughes shuts down the WS tonight and has them swinging at air on the high heater.

    Till later. have a great day.

  59. Villa Nova-Ya August 2nd, 2011 at 9:57 am

    Thinking it’s not so much personal catcher as it is consistency with Girardi. You see his patterns. He likes things orderly. Cervelli needs to play; pitchers pretty much like a consistent routine (although with CC, you might have more leeway); Cervelli has trouble throwing (at least he does now). So, you pair Cervelli with a pitcher who will give him the least trouble.

    Perhaps it’s more a matter of a personal pitcher than a personal catcher.

    As for Montero. I would like to see him up before August 31, but there really is no pressing need for it to right away. I don’t think Boston is the place to do it. And you do have to think the of dominoes – what are the moves that will be made to make room for Montero? Some might depend on Hughes. If they send Hughes to AAA to work, that’s a roster spot. Even if they send Hughes to the bullpen, they could send a pitcher down and that’s the roster spot for Montero.

    They will not remove a position player for Montero, I don’t think. They cannot do anything rash with Posada. You must think of the repercussions (emotional and psychological) of such a move. It would be a devastating turn of events. I think it would end up being a bomb thrown upon the morale of the clubhouse for the Yankees to do anything with Posada beyond what they are already doing.

    And, yes. I believe you must take that into account. Not to mention that while Posada certainly hasn’t played as we’ve come to expect, he’s not been Adam Dunn nor Jason Werth.

  60. Laura - I Bleed Blue August 2nd, 2011 at 9:57 am

    “can you go to the game again tonight and bring some more good luck?!”

    Unfortunately, no. I have other commitments, but I might be able to make Wed and Thurs now that the “Laura attending NYY games in Chicago” curse has been lifted. :)

  61. Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 9:59 am

    if you think martin sets a low bar with the bat lets see if montero can even hold martin’s *mitt* behind the plate.

    ============================

    No question about Martin’s low bar with the bat. He’s been a disaster for 3 months running. As for the defense, I’d suggest Martin’s is overrated here, as there is little evidence to suggest anything other than average. Pitchers seem confortable pitching to him, which is important. Not sure how that will work with Montero. I’d guess you are correct to assume he is not as good defensively as Martin right now.

  62. Laura - I Bleed Blue August 2nd, 2011 at 9:59 am

    “You were the first thing I thought of after the last out. Congratulations! You are off the snide.”

    Thanks, pat. I was a bit worried there a few times when CC got men on base, but like a true Ace, he got out of all of those jams.

    I was sitting next to a guy who every few minutes would yell out “Yankees suck”. I almost turned around and hit him, but thought better of it. :P

  63. upstate kate August 2nd, 2011 at 9:59 am

    ok if the Yankees lose tonight, we will know who to blame :)

  64. Laura - I Bleed Blue August 2nd, 2011 at 10:00 am

    “Laura-congratulations! You broke the curse! ”

    Thanks, Erin. It was hard work, but it had to be done. :)

  65. Villa Nova-Ya August 2nd, 2011 at 10:00 am

    Or, regarding CC/Cervelli – what pat said. :)

  66. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 10:01 am

    I just think Hughes to the pen does nothing to address the roots of his problems ……and how much would he help the bullpen as he’s currently been pitching? I still believe in him as a starter and if it comes to that then Id rather them take the necessary steps to get him back on track as a starter.

  67. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 10:03 am

    The thing with Montero is that if you’re thinking you might be using him in October then you need to get him up ASAP so he can adjust……maybe he gets through the struggle period in August and can help in Sept and October.

  68. UnKnown August 2nd, 2011 at 10:04 am

    So who goes down when Montero comes up?

    Sounds like we have to still carry Cervy to catch CC so that means having 4 catchers on the team. That is if you still count Posada as a catcher, if not you’re still carrying three.

  69. Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 10:06 am

    I just think Hughes to the pen does nothing to address the roots of his problems

    ==============================

    I agree. I suppose as a “win now” organization, the Yankees can’t let that be a concern right now. Would really seem to be a question of what serves him better. Working out of the Yankees pen or the SWB rotation. I’d lean to “B”, but I’m no expert.

  70. Bronx Jeers August 2nd, 2011 at 10:06 am

    Just saw the 1st inning from last night’s game. How bad of a 2-way player is Adam Dunn? An oafish performance.

  71. upstate kate August 2nd, 2011 at 10:09 am

    Jeers
    he was so terrible I felt very sorry for him

  72. Ys Guy August 2nd, 2011 at 10:09 am

    I have no idea who ayala is, to me, he’s a ‘flavor of the month’ I have no idea if he’s going to be worth a Damn in a pennant race. I know Phil Hughes has done it before. And I know he can throw hard for an inning. I have a lot more faith in Phil than ayala (who’s first name I don’t even know)

  73. CountryClub August 2nd, 2011 at 10:09 am

    This is why I don’t expect to see Montero until 9/1

  74. Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 10:10 am

    How bad of a 2-way player is Adam Dunn?

    =======================

    Extraordinarily bad. You could tell rather quickly that he doesn’t do much time there at 1B. The offense is a little surprising. I knew he’d whiff a lot, but never expected anything close to this ugly.

  75. Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Ys Guy- it’s Luis Ayala. ;)

  76. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Dunn has always been a bad defender…..but he’s also always balanced that out by hitting 40 homers and walking a lot. He seems like a good dude…..and I’ve liked him since he went off in the WBC a couple of years ago…..so I hope he gets going……just not until after Thursday.

    If you’re bringing Montero up then its because you think he can contribute to winning a WS…….there is no other reason to bring him up……so therefore you need to get him up in time to adjust to the big leagues IMO or its kinda pointless.

  77. 86w183 August 2nd, 2011 at 10:13 am

    Going to the BP may solve the root of Hughes’ problem if the root of the problem is that he is not physically up to the rigors of being a starter. He has an ERA over 6.00 in 23 starts since his 10-1, 3.17 beginning of last season.

    His bullpen numbers are vastly superior to his starting numbers.

  78. fantasygame101 August 2nd, 2011 at 10:14 am

    If montero is an average catcher now, he would have been up already bec. cervelli offense is not something to be miss. So it can be assume that he is only an option as an emergency catcher. The yankees can not afford to have posada and montero bec. it will limit the team flexibility.

  79. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 10:14 am

    86,

    Yea but if you’re considering him a starter that really doesn’t apply……

  80. Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 10:15 am

    bw51official Come by Barnes & Noble in White Plains, NY tonight at 7 PM to get an autographed copy of my new book Rhythms of the Game at my book signing!

  81. Ys Guy August 2nd, 2011 at 10:17 am

    i have never heard anyone refer to montero as being an ‘average’ catcher. the line from scouts usually goes something like “if he can develop into an acceptable catcher” this indicates that he is not nearly an average catcher now and a healthy dose of skepticism that he ever will attain that level of competence behind the plate.

  82. 108 stitches August 2nd, 2011 at 10:17 am

    The DH role will see changes when Alex is back. Expect that Girardi will not overuse him at 3rd base and alternate him with Chavez as the DH. Posada and Jones will see fewer games and be reduced to some pinch hitting appearances.
    If Montero is called up and has a hot bat, he too will see some time as a DH.

  83. Irreverent Discourse August 2nd, 2011 at 10:18 am

    Hughes is not going to the bullpen just because the guy from the Daily News said so today. He would have to pitch really bad to get bumped from the rotation IMO.

  84. 86w183 August 2nd, 2011 at 10:21 am

    Blake —

    I agree. If you are confident in him as a starter he goes to Scranton if he’s bad again tonight.

    As I have written before, there is a long list of pitchers over the years who were not up to the rigors of being a starter long term and had great careers as closers. It’s a very real possibility that Hughes is in that category.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see him evolve into a top flight starting pitcher… but I have never been more in doubt of that happening than I am right now.

  85. Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 10:23 am

    He would have to pitch really bad to get bumped from the rotation IMO

    =================================

    Or be one of the best 5 pitchers throwing right now, which he isn’t.

  86. Irreverent Discourse August 2nd, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Mell – Nova is the one with all the options. Being one of the 5 best doesn’t matter right now.

  87. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 10:26 am

    “i have never heard anyone refer to montero as being an ‘average’ catcher.”

    What did they say about Nova or Gardner or Robertson.? ….I take everything that scouts and keith laws say with a grain of salt…….the Yankees know a lot more about whether he will be able to catch than anyone else because they have seen him do it significantly more.

  88. Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 10:26 am

    Yankees CC Sabathia has a streak of 8 straight appearances in which he has gone at least 7 innings and allowed no more than 2 runs. #YankeesFacts

  89. jacksquat August 2nd, 2011 at 10:27 am

    I don’t think Nova would be getting another start if there weren’t questions about Hughes continuing to start. The “extra rest for Colon and Garcia” seems like a typical transparent Girardi excuse.

    And they aren’t going to a 6-man rotation.

  90. Irreverent Discourse August 2nd, 2011 at 10:28 am

    No, they are not going to a 6-man rotation (but why not? the world will never know)… just lining the rotation up for the Boston series.

  91. Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 10:28 am

    Mell – Nova is the one with all the options. Being one of the 5 best doesn’t matter right now.

    =============================

    My understanding was Hughes had one left. Maybe I have that wrong.

  92. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 10:30 am

    They aren’t going 6 man because it would cost Sabathia starts…..unless they worked out some weird schedule where he stayed on regular rest and everyone else didn’t.

  93. Irreverent Discourse August 2nd, 2011 at 10:30 am

    Mell – It’s possible he has one left, but burning that last one while he is half-struggling may not be the best idea. He’s not pitching that bad, he is just rusty and missing spots. Nova/Hughes battling for a rotation spot is a good problem to have.

  94. Irreverent Discourse August 2nd, 2011 at 10:30 am

    blake – it would cost him 1 start from now to the end of the year. maybe 2, but not by my math.

  95. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 10:30 am

    Hughes has at least one option left

  96. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 10:32 am

    ID,

    CC losing 1-2 starts is too many……

  97. Irreverent Discourse August 2nd, 2011 at 10:32 am

    1 game is too much to give 6 guys essentially an extra week off between now and the end of the year? sheesh.

  98. jacksquat August 2nd, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Irreverent Discourse August 2nd, 2011 at 10:28 am
    No, they are not going to a 6-man rotation (but why not? the world will never know)… just lining the rotation up for the Boston series.

    Yeah, it is possible it was to line up the rotation, although they haven’t really done that much if at all so far this year. It’s also possible they want to see Nova and Hughes for another start and evaluate.

    The Yanks are a perpectual win now team so Hughes might not get a lot of rope.

  99. West Coast Yankee Fan August 2nd, 2011 at 10:33 am

    I think Hughes long term place is as a starter wit the Yankees. If anyone ever needed a winter and new start it’s Phil.

    That having been said, it’s pennant race time. If Hughes continues to not pitch well – he is I am sure bullpen bound; Girardi won’t hesitate as Hughes is not Jeter or Posada. You have to try and win.

    Mariano, Soriano, Robertson, Hughes – not bad.

  100. Ys Guy August 2nd, 2011 at 10:34 am

    i really dont see where there is space on this team for montero. if they were willing to let po go there would be but 3 catchers (or 2 DH’s if you prefer), with only 1 b/u IF is not the way you want to go through the pennant race.

    I know jesus is hitting well in scranton but they really have to twist up the roster to get him up here.

    then there are the 6 SP’s. i dont care what the guy in the DN said, someone is losing thier rotation spot and if nova pitches well next time out, then hughes is pitching for his spot in the rotation tonight.

  101. Irreverent Discourse August 2nd, 2011 at 10:35 am

    jacksquat – also to split up the guys that pitched in the double header i think? i just think people are reading way too much into it. hughes is going to be in the rotation, and would probably have to have 4 or 5 bad outings before he gets removed. nova has been a pleasant surprise, but getting him right isn’t necessary for the team to be successful in the playoffs. getting hughes right is.

  102. jacksquat August 2nd, 2011 at 10:36 am

    They don’t have to move Hughes to the minors, they could try him in the bullpen. He could possibly pick up 2-3 mph if he can just go max effort for one inning.

  103. West Coast Yankee Fan August 2nd, 2011 at 10:36 am

    They are going six man ‘this week’ to allow Hughes and Nova another start to see who stays in the rotation. Also, giving Colon and Garcia a rest makes perfect sense; they are our rotation guys now all year and keeping them fresh and healthy is paramount.

  104. jacksquat August 2nd, 2011 at 10:37 am

    *perpetual

  105. fantasygame101 August 2nd, 2011 at 10:37 am

    Colon and garcia will be on 6 days rest going to boston. This could be good but also can be bad. Girardi said that it will be good for both and we will see. Personally, I think it will be bad for garcia and good for colon bec. garcia relies on being sharp and hitting the corners to get people out.

  106. Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 10:38 am

    They aren’t going 6 man because it would cost Sabathia starts

    ======================================

    He pitched on 5 days rest yesterday and apparently will again this weekend. I think they’re going to be a little cognizant of where he’s at innings-wise. 55 games to go, so he’s likely to get 10-11 more starts. Have to figure that another 70-75 innings, which puts him in the 250 range. Most since he’s been here.

  107. jacksquat August 2nd, 2011 at 10:41 am

    I think Hughes’ upside might be higher, but now I see Nova reaching 95-96 at times and Hughes 92-93, and I think that ceiling may not be in reach this season. Nova also seems to be doing a little better with his secondary pitches. I don’t think either would be a postseason starter at this point. CC-Colon-Garcia are pitching better and AJ would get a start before them unless he totally tanks.

  108. Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 10:42 am

    jacksquat August 2nd, 2011 at 10:36 am
    They don?t have to move Hughes to the minors, they could try him in the bullpen. He could possibly pick up 2-3 mph if he can just go max effort for one inning.

    ***********************

    In his last start, didn’t he have pretty good velocity the first couple innings and then it started to dip? If that’s the case, I can see why they’re considering the bullpen idea for him

  109. jacksquat August 2nd, 2011 at 10:42 am

    Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 10:38 am
    They aren’t going 6 man because it would cost Sabathia starts

    ======================================

    He pitched on 5 days rest yesterday and apparently will again this weekend. I think they’re going to be a little cognizant of where he’s at innings-wise. 55 games to go, so he’s likely to get 10-11 more starts. Have to figure that another 70-75 innings, which puts him in the 250 range. Most since he’s been here.

    Yeah, but CC has said that he wouldn’t want to do a 6-man, and CC is pretty much going to get what he wants.

  110. Hassey August 2nd, 2011 at 10:43 am

    I’m going to the Met game tonight to see future Yankee Mike Stanton

  111. heyman_sux August 2nd, 2011 at 10:44 am

    getting him right isn?t necessary for the team to be successful in the playoffs. getting hughes right is.
    ===========

    How so? If one is pitching better than the other, does it matter who?

    (btw, I’m not necessarily an advocate of Hughes back to teh pen)

  112. Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 10:46 am

    Yeah, but CC has said that he wouldn’t want to do a 6-man, and CC is pretty much going to get what he wants.

    ==============================

    True, but it’s probably good that the Yankees aren’t bumping other guys to keep him on a regular 4 days rest. The 5 days rest from time to time will be good for him, IMO.

  113. jacksquat August 2nd, 2011 at 10:47 am

    Erin August 2nd, 2011 at 10:42 am
    jacksquat August 2nd, 2011 at 10:36 am
    They don?t have to move Hughes to the minors, they could try him in the bullpen. He could possibly pick up 2-3 mph if he can just go max effort for one inning.

    ***********************

    In his last start, didn’t he have pretty good velocity the first couple innings and then it started to dip? If that’s the case, I can see why they’re considering the bullpen idea for him

    I don’t remember if there was a noticeable velocity drop after the first couple innings in his last start. I’m pretty sure later in the game he was sitting 91-93. Hughes seems to do a lot better when he’s throwing a little harder than that. If you move him to the bp he might be able to pick up some velocity/stuff by knowing he can just air it out for one inning.

  114. austinmac August 2nd, 2011 at 10:48 am

    I hope Hughes pitches well, Montero bashes the ball and the Yankees have tough decisions to make. Personally, I believe CC’s good stretch has little to do with Cervelli and has everything to do with his ability to throw 96-97 when needed.

    Hughes needs to pitch well, but if he does not, he will not stay in the rotation. The Yankees can try the pen to see if that ups his fastball velocity. When he dominated in the pen, his fastball was 94+ on a consistent basis. It remains to be seen if he can still throw that hard even for an inning. I doubt it since I don’t recall a single 95 mph fastball all year.

  115. Villa Nova-Ya August 2nd, 2011 at 10:48 am

    How does picking up his velocity for a one or two inning stint help Hughes in the long run?

    He needs to be able to sustain a decent velocity (not max) over longer stretches of innings, with the ability to rev it up if necessary in the later innings. He’s not going to get that from being in the bullpen. Plus the entire mindset is wrong. Plus, once again, he’d not be using or developing any of his other pitches (though I’d expect he’d use a curve out of the BP maybe?).

    I understand though that the Yankees are a win now organization and Hughes possibly is a better bet than Ayala or any number of middle guys and so that is how they might move forward.

    Remember, the Yankees need to balance what is best for the team with what is best for the player, and what is best for the player isn’t always what is best for the Yankees.

  116. Wave Your Hat August 2nd, 2011 at 10:49 am

    Given that Cervelli’s OPS is under .600 and that Martin’s OPS since the beginning of May is also under .600, the fact that Montero isn’t here speaks volumes about the Yanks’ belief in Montero’s catching abilities.

  117. West Coast Yankee Fan August 2nd, 2011 at 10:52 am

    Hughes is not going to the minors I can think of nothing more counterproductive for Hughes and unhelpful to the team.

  118. jacksquat August 2nd, 2011 at 10:53 am

    Villa Nova-Ya August 2nd, 2011 at 10:48 am
    How does picking up his velocity for a one or two inning stint help Hughes in the long run?

    He needs to be able to sustain a decent velocity (not max) over longer stretches of innings, with the ability to rev it up if necessary in the later innings. He’s not going to get that from being in the bullpen. Plus the entire mindset is wrong. Plus, once again, he’d not be using or developing any of his other pitches (though I’d expect he’d use a curve out of the BP maybe?).

    I understand though that the Yankees are a win now organization and Hughes possibly is a better bet than Ayala or any number of middle guys and so that is how they might move forward.

    Remember, the Yankees need to balance what is best for the team with what is best for the player, and what is best for the player isn’t always what is best for the Yankees.

    Well, if the Yankees decide Nova is the better option to start this year, then moving Hughes to the bp would give him an opportunity to stay in the majors and be a useful part of the team, something I’d guess he’d prefer. I don’t think whether it’s minors or bp this year matters much for next year. He could relieve the rest of this year and then get ready to be a starter again in the offseason and preseason.

  119. Against All Odds August 2nd, 2011 at 10:53 am

    # Hassey August 2nd, 2011 at 10:43 am

    I’m going to the Met game tonight to see future Yankee Mike Stanton

    ———————————-

    :) tell him we can’t wait for him to get here

  120. Villa Nova-Ya August 2nd, 2011 at 10:54 am

    I disagree.

    I actually believe it when the Yankees say what good does it do to have Montero spend more time on the bench? Consistent and full playing time at this stage of his development as a player is most important, I’d think. Especially when the club is playing 23 games over .500 without him.

    There is no pressing need to rush Montero up, aside from fans being impatient to see him.

    In addition, up to recently, Montero has not really been forcing the issue with his hitting this season. He has not made it a difficult decision for the Yankees. (And, have I mentioned, the Yankees are winning even with their catchers not being the best hitters?)

  121. Ys Guy August 2nd, 2011 at 10:55 am

    i dont know what hughes long-term is but i think that right now he can help out of the pen. he is getting to the point where you have to think more about how he can help the team not and worry about what he ‘is going to be’ after. the fact that he comes out with velocity and then loses it after 2 innings has ‘bullpen’ written all over it.

    he was great out of the bp in the pennant race in 09 and there does not appear to be a place for him in the rotation right now. if he can help from the bp, thats where he should be. if he cant help, they can always call ayala or someone else back up.

  122. Villa Nova-Ya August 2nd, 2011 at 10:58 am

    jacksquat -

    True enough. This year has been a limbo for Phil Hughes anyway.

    As I said, it might be my feeling that in the long run, working at starting for one more month in the minors might be better for Hughes, but I’m not the Yankees brain trust. LOL

    He’d be up here in September anyway, probably.

    The bottom line is I’d like to see both Nova and Hughes doing well. Make it a difficult decision.

  123. heyman_sux August 2nd, 2011 at 10:58 am

    Villa Nova-Ya August 2nd, 2011 at 10:48 am
    How does picking up his velocity for a one or two inning stint help Hughes in the long run?
    =========

    It doesn’t. Hughes prob always seems to be his inability to put guys away. He was able to do it in the pen bc of the aforementioned increase in velocity (for one inning). But, will he be able to rely on that when reinserted to the rotation? Unlikely. Also, he’s admitted in the past, he scrapped other pitches in the pen and mainly went FB/curve. Again, probably not going to help

    In some ways going to the pen would stunt his growth as a pitcher – but I think going to AAA would as well

    As was previously mentioned by someone here, Hughes is definitely the one player who could use a fresh start or do-over for this season

  124. Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 10:59 am

    I don’t remember if there was a noticeable velocity drop after the first couple innings in his last start

    =========================================

    Wouldn’t say it was noticeable, but he didn’t hit 93 after the 2nd inning against Seattle and hit 92 only once after the 3rd. Doesn’t appear as though the fastball dipped below 90 at any point though.

  125. Villa Nova-Ya August 2nd, 2011 at 10:59 am

    My only caveat is that Hughes isn’t the same guy who came out of the bullpen in ’09. I wouldn’t be expecting the same dominance out of him now.

  126. fantasygame101 August 2nd, 2011 at 11:02 am

    If the yankees finish 1-5 then montero will be up next week. This what happens when wang and cano were brought up unexpectedly.

  127. hardwired7 August 2nd, 2011 at 11:04 am

    As bad as things are going for Adam Dunn, it could be worse: he could be Craig Counsell (0 for his last 45…ouch!)

  128. Villa Nova-Ya August 2nd, 2011 at 11:05 am

    A do-over would be nice. I guess it has to wait until next season.

  129. jacksquat August 2nd, 2011 at 11:07 am

    Montero has only 2 errors and 5 passed balls this year. That’s not bad at all.

    Only 19% caught stealing though, so that needs some work.

    But those numbers overall don’t seem to indicate a player that is lost behind the plate.

  130. Ys Guy August 2nd, 2011 at 11:08 am

    it would have to be cervelli sent down to get montero up. with montero behind the plate you cant use martin because they wont trust jesus behind the plate in the late innings of a 1 run game. this also means you lose the ability to use cervelli as an emergency IF. you could still use martin at 3b in a pinch but that leaves you weak both at 3b and a c. not a pretty set-up.

  131. jacksquat August 2nd, 2011 at 11:09 am

    btw, if you had Montero catch CC and Colon I think that would minimize the possible stolen base problem.

  132. J. Alfred Prufrock August 2nd, 2011 at 11:09 am

    No time to post at any length this morning, just stopped in to say I agree with those who do not want Phil Hughes the 2012 starter further compromised.

    I take issue with posters wondering aloud what the rotation will look like next season who don’t even breathe the word “Hughes.” There’s a very good chance Hughes is going through a temporary fatigue/velocity loss from the bump in innings & that this will be a distant memory by next season.

    Whatever we have to do to get Hughes back to scratch is vitally important to bringing back first half 2010 Hughes. Now THAT guy would be a fine No. 2 starter.

  133. 86w183 August 2nd, 2011 at 11:10 am

    It’s stunning to me how many of you refuse to acknowledge even the possibility that Phil Hughes is not physically up to being a start in the majors. The evidence is pretty substantial at this point. He was 10-1, 3.17 after 13 starts in 2010….. since then in 23 starts his ERA is up around 6.00. He had the same velocity issues late last season, too.

    Not many guys with 100+ appearances get sent to the minors. If he can’t do it today I expect him to go to the bullpen and Noesi to be sent to Scranton to go back to being a starter.

    Maybe Hughes is great out of the pen the rest of the season (and post-season), and maybe not. Either way it doesn’t preclude him from starting in the future.

  134. J. Alfred Prufrock August 2nd, 2011 at 11:11 am

    Final note: bah humbug on personal catchers.

    FREE JESUS NOW!

  135. PittsburghYankeeFan August 2nd, 2011 at 11:12 am

    Chad

    The real question is: would your grandmother block the plate?

  136. jacksquat August 2nd, 2011 at 11:13 am

    Cervelli has played 5 innings at 3b and 2 innings at 2b, so while he may take some infield practice, I don’t think he can be considered much more than a warm body at those positions. In the game he played 2b, they could have just as easily put Cano at 2b and lost the dh two innings earlier. And now with both Chavez and Nunez, I think Cervelli as an infielder is pretty much totally irrelevant.

  137. Ys Guy August 2nd, 2011 at 11:16 am

    obviously they preferred not to lose the dh in a game they were losing at the time. i said cervelli was an emergency IF but they only have 1 b/u IF right now and jeter has a hand problem so it is a consideration.

    i want to see jesus too but i just dont see how he fits onto this team. i guess you send down cervelli and commit to letting jesus catch and hope it turns out ok.

  138. upstate kate August 2nd, 2011 at 11:16 am

    I don’t think Cervelli was intentionally made CC’s personal catcher, it is just the way it has worked out. Probably more of an effort to keep him away from AJ!

  139. PittsburghYankeeFan August 2nd, 2011 at 11:17 am

    All this Hughes nonsense.

    Can all of us acknowledge the only three undisputed facts available to everyone:

    (1) He was lights out as a set up man for the last 3 months of 09.
    (2) He was lights out as a starter for the first 3 months of 2010.
    (3) He has sucked (worse than replacement) otherwise, with the exception of the near no-hitter in Texas several years ago.

    Those are the facts on the ground, not opinion. Make whatever conclusions you want from them. I think the Yankees are at this point–the fact that he was in the trade discussion for Jiminez should tell us all something.

  140. 108 stitches August 2nd, 2011 at 11:17 am

    Tonight’s start for Hughes will be telling. If he maintains good velocity and has his secondary pitches working he makes a case to remain in the rotation. What he did last year is of no significance. Last year was last year. Nova opened some eyes last year and has opened many more this year. His 9 wins and command of his secondary pitches are keeping eyes open.
    What’s to like with Nova and Noesi is that there was no over hype with either.

  141. Wave Your Hat August 2nd, 2011 at 11:18 am

    “I actually believe it when the Yankees say what good does it do to have Montero spend more time on the bench? Consistent and full playing time at this stage of his development as a player is most important, I’d think.”

    No, not having catchers OPS’ing under .600 is the most important thing. If the Yanks thought Montero could catch at the major league level, he’d be here.

  142. heyman_sux August 2nd, 2011 at 11:23 am

    Those are the facts on the ground, not opinion. Make whatever conclusions you want from them. I think the Yankees are at this point?the fact that he was in the trade discussion for Jiminez should tell us all something.
    =======

    Jimenez is more accomplished as a starter. Also, his contract is SO friendly, that he’ll probably be making about as much as Hughes will through arbitration.

    That Hughes was included in an offer (and we don’t know what offer because its been reported that he was offered as either the centerpiece OR as a a “+”) is not to say they’ve lost faith in him

  143. PittsburghYankeeFan August 2nd, 2011 at 11:24 am

    108

    That’s exactly tht point. No hype over Noesi, Nova, Warren–that’s a good thing in NY, low expectations.

    Brackman, Hughes, Joba, etc all suffer from the curse of high expectations amongst the fans and media, and probably some in the organization.

  144. fantasygame101 August 2nd, 2011 at 11:24 am

    I believe the step for hughes if he is not suitable to be an SP this yr is to see if his velocity is 94 up when he is in the bullpen. If he is still effective in the bullpen then he stays there. Next yr, you let him prove to them that he has learned his lesson to his offseason conditioning and he can be at least no. 3 sp, otherwise trade him.

  145. jacksquat August 2nd, 2011 at 11:25 am

    Ys Guy August 2nd, 2011 at 11:16 am
    obviously they preferred not to lose the dh in a game they were losing at the time. i said cervelli was an emergency IF but they only have 1 b/u IF right now and jeter has a hand problem so it is a consideration.

    i want to see jesus too but i just dont see how he fits onto this team. i guess you send down cervelli and commit to letting jesus catch and hope it turns out ok.

    The were winning at the time.

    I don’t know what they will do with Cervelli/Montero, I just don’t think Cervelli’s miniscule experience as an infielder makes any difference.

  146. Villa Nova-Ya August 2nd, 2011 at 11:25 am

    It tells us he was in a trade discussion for Jimenez. That’s all it tells us.

  147. PittsburghYankeeFan August 2nd, 2011 at 11:27 am

    heyman_sux

    My understanding of reading the tea leaves in the media is that the Rox wanted the universe, the Yankees came back with Hughes plus some AA talent (not the B’s), and the Rox walked to the Indians.

    My guess about this (and I could be wrong) is that the Yankees thought that Jiminez and Hughes could both use a change of scenery, and that he was the centerpiece.

  148. Villa Nova-Ya August 2nd, 2011 at 11:27 am

    WYH -

    If the Yankees were losing or seriously behind, I might agree with you. But they are not.

    Total picture, there was no pressing need for Montero to be up in the majors. There is still no pressing need for that, though it is surely something I’d like to see.

  149. G. Love August 2nd, 2011 at 11:27 am

    The debating about Hughes in 2011 is pointless. He needs to go out and have a good start tonight. Chicago is a good offense and if he can hold them down for 6-7 innings and keep the team in the game the calls for his head will go away.

    My wanting Nova to take his place in the rotation doesn’t equal the Yankees dropping Hughes despite what some deranged posters on here like to tell me.

    I want the Yankees to go with their best 5 pitchers right now, overtake Boston and secure home field in the AL playoffs. I don’t like the playing for the wild card strategy last year. I think some of that “backing into the playoffs” mentality showed up in the Texas series to be honest.

    Hughes should be in the rotation next year. I’m sure the Yankees are counting on him there. Given an off season to get himself in the best shape of his life he more than deserves that chance.

    What he doesn’t deserve is a rotation spot if he’s not physically, mentally able to hold it. Especially with Nova developing like he has over the course of this season. Ivan Nova is a completely different pitcher than he was when the season started. He’s learning on the job and getting better and more confident each time out.

    That said, if Hughes can recapture the magic arm he had at the start of 2010 it would be a huge boost.

    If he can’t and he’s going to scuffle the rest of the way, Nova should be in the rotation since I prefer him to AJ and probably Garcia in a playoff game right now.

  150. Ys Guy August 2nd, 2011 at 11:28 am

    being offered in a trade for jiminez is no shame at all.

  151. heyman_sux August 2nd, 2011 at 11:30 am

    PYF

    Maybe, but Ubaldo is far and away the better pitcher to this point.

    That Hughes was offerred in a trade actually means little. As far as pitchers go, one would think the only untouchables are CC and Mo

  152. Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 11:30 am

    2) He was lights out as a starter for the first 3 months of 2010.

    ================================

    This simply isn’t true.

  153. Phranchise August 2nd, 2011 at 11:37 am

    He wasn’t a lights out starter in the first half of 2010???

    Define lights out becuase you aren’t going to find a ton of guys that had these stats pre-allstar break.

    11-2 3.65 era 1.18 whip 91 ks in 101 innings 29 walks.

    CC pre-allstar

    13-4 2.72 era 1.16 whip 126 ks in 145 innings 35 walks

    I guess he isn’t lights out then either

  154. Wave Your Hat August 2nd, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Villa Nova-Ya-

    Well, we shall see. Rumors are that Montero will be up soon and Cervelli down. If so, the Yanks obviously will let him catch. If it doesn’t happen, then I think the Yanks don’t see Montero as a catcher. I don’t think Cervelli’s personal catcher to CC status will be enough to keep him here if the Yanks think Montero can catch.

  155. JimK August 2nd, 2011 at 11:39 am

    Last year Hughes was lights out for the 1st two months. I have posted therefore it must be time for a new thread.

    Hughes had a great start last year, he started off 5-1 and his 1.38 ERA was among the leaders in the AL. During that early run I believe he also was the league leader in swings and misses. This stat is largely borne out by the fact that, through April and May, Hughes had 57 K’s through 56.2 innings(see link). Hughes also arguably saved the Yankees from a late season collapse with his September start against Boston, which essentially killed their momentum. This is the Hughes the Yankees are hoping shows up sometime during this season. Is this realistic on their part? I don’t know.

    http://www.baseball-almanac.co.....038;y=2010

  156. Ys Guy August 2nd, 2011 at 11:39 am

    my prediction (not my preference) is that hughes goes to the bp, ayala or noesi goes down and montero comes up to dh for a week or two and catch once or twice.

  157. Villa Nova-Ya August 2nd, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Not to belabor a tired subject, but the Yankees had a TON of injuries in September of 2010. If that is not the case, then they are NOT satisfied with the WC. However, that being the case, I can understand the tactic of trying to make the playoffs in any way shape or form and trying to make sure your big guys can play when you get there.

    IMHO, if they had pushed to win the division and compromised some injured players in the process, the outcome could have very well been the same as it was anyway.

    And still, wasn’t there that one game that AJ had won that he tossed away (or that Girardi left him in too long for) that may have been the difference?

    Short series. Anything can happen.

  158. 86w183 August 2nd, 2011 at 11:43 am

    Here are the real facts/stats on Phil

    2010 —

    First 6 starts 5-0, 1.38 ERA, 6.5 innings/start

    Next 7 starts 5-1, 4.78 ERA, 6.2 innings/start

    Last 16 starts 7-7, 5.18 ERA, 5.75 innings/start

    2011 —

    First 7 starts 1-3, 8.24, 4.5 innings /start

    It’s not just this year. Since his 6th start of 2010 he’s made 30 starts

    13-11, 5.67 ERA, 5.7 innings/start

  159. Villa Nova-Ya August 2nd, 2011 at 11:43 am

    WYH -

    I don’t think Cervelli catching CC is important at all, either. But if Montero is called up, I’d hope he would get a decent amount of playing time, both behind the plate and as an occasional DH.

    And while Cervelli has been pretty good the last couple of weeks, he’s not the guy you hold up Montero for.

    But we’ll see.

  160. Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 11:44 am

    He wasn’t a lights out starter in the first half of 2010???

    =================================

    He was light out for 6 starts to start the year after which he was 5-0 with a 1.38 ERA

    Over his final 23 starts, he was 13-8 with a 5.05 ERA.

  161. sammiejohnson August 2nd, 2011 at 11:45 am

    Also, Montero is not on the 40 man. Meaning someone is going to have to clear waivers (or be lost) for him to be brought up.

  162. jpb173 August 2nd, 2011 at 11:46 am

    Phil Hughes threw 98 pitches in his last outing. Thats the most he thrown in a start this season. Thats important because Larry Rothschild believes that the way to build up arm strength and regain lost velocity is by throwing more pitches, not by throwing less pitches. Tonight, Phil needs to hang around long enough to throw about 105 pitches. If he can do so, I predict that he will have more velocity in future starts and his velocity will remain high longer in each start.

    In a sense, for Hughes its a wierd sort of Catch-22. He has to throw more pitches in games to regain velocity but he won’t be able to hang around in games long enough if his velocity isn’t enough to get hitters out. Lets hope that he can get over the velocity hump tonight.

  163. Phranchise August 2nd, 2011 at 11:46 am

    With a bp that has Ayala, Noesi, Robertson, Wade, Rivera, Logan and Soriano no one is really underperforming are they?

    So why throw Hughes out there now? Now I say this without knowing all the issues with sending people back and forth to the minors and if that is an issue, but if it isn’t.

    1) It’s another year of stunted innings and grow if he goes to the pen.
    2) He has to work on his pitches so the more innings he can log the better
    3) The chances everyone stays healthy isn’t high so Hughes would slot back in, so what is the rush to shorten him only to stretch him out again?
    4) There is no guarantee, like Joba, that he suddenly just finds the zone and throws 96 out there again.
    5) What relief role does he serve? A sixth inning guy. When he was out there before it was a setup role.

    I say if they can, they send him down to start in the minors for as long as necessary. If in a month’s time everyone is pitching well then start him in the pen some for the playoffs and see what he gives. It may be he simply doesn’t make the post season this year unless he proives otherwise.

  164. Wave Your Hat August 2nd, 2011 at 11:51 am

    “Also, Montero is not on the 40 man. Meaning someone is going to have to clear waivers (or be lost) for him to be brought up.”

    I personally don’t believe teams would be lining up to claim Cervelli. Or Gustavo Molina. Then there’s Steve Garrison and Lance Pendleton. Not to mention Greg Golson and Justin Maxwell.

    I don’t see 40 man roster issues affecting Montero at all.

  165. Phranchise August 2nd, 2011 at 11:52 am

    You can break down stats start by start to if you want.

    If you want to go by similar stats, check out how Andy Pettite got worse as well as the season progressed.

    His first full healthy year, most innings logged etc, it is fair to say he would wear down by season’s end and that the full season might have effected the start of this year?

  166. jpb173 August 2nd, 2011 at 11:56 am

    UnKnown August 2nd, 2011 at 10:04 am
    So who goes down when Montero comes up?

    Sounds like we have to still carry Cervy to catch CC so that means having 4 catchers on the team. That is if you still count Posada as a catcher, if not you’re still carrying three.

    ==============================================

    Thats not the only question that needs to be answered about a Montero callup. the other question is, “Who would be dropped off the 40 man roster to make room for Montero?” The obvious answer is Gus Molina but I think the Yankees would be a little nervous about losing Molina because, if injuries strike at the catcher position I would think they would be happy to have him still on the roster and available to play in postseason.

    Thats why I think we won’t see Montero until September when there is less timein the season for Yankee catchers to get hurt.

  167. Phranchise August 2nd, 2011 at 11:56 am

    Any chance Andruw Jones is sent packing ??? He hasn’t been great. He would give Montero playing time. They signed Thames who could mimic his stats more than likely if the Montero experiment didn’t work out. They also have Parraz at AAA playing well. Dickerson or Golson if they needed defense to offset it.

  168. 86w183 August 2nd, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Phranchise —

    He started wearing down in his 7th start. He was actually a pretty consistent 6 innings, 3 ER guy for the 23 starts that followed his phenomenal start.

    For the year his ERA in the 1st two innings was more than a run lower than in innings 3-6.

    Pettite has a 16 year track record. Silly comparison.

    Done arguing/debating for the day… I honestly hope Phil throws a CG shutout wqith 9 K in 104 pitches…

    seeya

  169. Wave Your Hat August 2nd, 2011 at 11:59 am

    “The obvious answer is Gus Molina but I think the Yankees would be a little nervous about losing Molina because, if injuries strike at the catcher position I would think they would be happy to have him still on the roster and available to play in postseason.”

    Oh sure there must be at least 15 teams drooling for the chance to claim Gus Molina off of waivers.

  170. Mell August 2nd, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    You can break down stats start by start to if you want.

    ==========================

    Stating the facts beats saying he was lights out for the 1st 3 months of the season. Pretty sure June(5.17 ERA) remains one of the 1st 3 months of your garden variety baseball seaon.

    Fact was, he got off to a ridiculous start at a pace that neither he nor anyone else could hope to carry thru a full season. After those six starts, he was very much what you’d expect out of a rookie pitcher. Some very bad starts, some good ones, and some that fell in between enroute to a 5+ ERA. Isn’t an idictment of him. It was a good year for a 1st year starter, but his “light’s out” period lasted about 30 days from mid April thru mid May.

  171. JimK August 2nd, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    This was to be Hughes second full season as a starter, therefore a fair comparison with Pettite would not be last year, it would be Pettite’s second season.

    http://www.baseball-almanac.co.....038;y=1996

  172. blake August 2nd, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    If you look through the game logs from last year you’ll see that Hughes was better than his ERA wouldn’t indicate last year after his great start. He had like 2-3 terrible starts against the Jays that hurt his overall numbers…..he still had pop on his fastball last year……he’s been a different pitcher this year than last

  173. jpb173 August 2nd, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    Oh sure there must be at least 15 teams drooling for the chance to claim Gus Molina off of waivers.

    =============================================

    If they drop Molina off of the 40 man roster and don’t put him back on the 40 man roster by September 1st then he would not be eligible to play in the postseason. I know the odds are very low of losing both Cervelli and Martin but I’m sure the Yankees would feel better putting Molina behind the plate in the postseason than either Montero or Posada.

  174. Phranchise August 2nd, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    And that was my only point. He had some horrible games in there that ballooned some of the numbers.

    Against Toronto he had 3 awful starts out of 4. They had his number for sure and crushed him.

    He got smoked by the Angels and Blue Jays.

    He faired well against Boston.

    If anything he didn’t necessarily lose his stuff (velocity) , he lost his control and mechanics.

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