Sabathia and the Red Sox
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Aug 07, 2011 
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At this point, you’re well aware that CC Sabathia lost last night. It was his fourth loss in four starts against the Red Sox this season.
“Sometimes you’re going to struggle,” Nick Swisher said. “It shows he is a little human, but we know he’s going to be back out there in five days and he’s going to be ready to go. I think this game might light that fire. You never know what he’s going to do in his next start.”
Here’s what Sabathia’s done in his four starts against Boston this season.
April 10
At Fenway Park
5.2 IP, 9 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 4, BB, 4 K
One run, but obviously that’s not a great line from the Yankees ace. Unlike last night, he did a nice job limiting the damage and giving the Yankees a chance, but the team was struggling at the time and Sabathia lost his first decision of the year. This was at a time when Sabathia kept missing out on early season win opportunities.
What was said: “I did what I could today,” Sabathia said. “But the stuff just wasn’t there.”
May 14
At Yankee Stadium
6.2 IP, 7 H, 6 R, 6 ER, 3 BB, 6 K
Sabathia held the Red Sox scoreless until a two-run double by Jacoby Ellsbury in the fifth. He pitched into the seventh before his night was undone on his last pitch of the game, a two-out, three-run home run by Adrian Gonzalez. This was the game Jorge Posada asked out of the lineup.
What was said: “I thought CC pitched a good game,” Joe Girardi said. “I didn’t like the call to Jason Varitek. I thought Mike’s zone, he called some low strikes on us, and I thought that was a pivotal point of the game and it changed the complexion of the game.”
June 9
At Yankee Stadium
6.2 IP, 8 H, 6 R, 6 ER, 2 BB, 5 K
Sabathia pitched six scoreless innings, but the night imploded in the seventh. Two of Sabathia’s runs scored when he was out of the game — Dave Robertson gave them up — but the real problem was that six of the eight batters Sabathia faced that inning had a base hit.
What was said: “That’s the outing,” Sabathia said. “We lose the game and get swept. I take total blame for everything that happened in the seventh inning, and I’ll be back out there in five days.”
August 6
At Fenway Park
6 IP, 9 H, 7 R, 7 ER, 1 BB, 6 K
Not much need to go back into detail. Sabathia had two bad innings last night, but things really spiraled out of control during a five-run fourth. His fastball command was bad, and the patient Red Sox hitters were able to take advantage.
What was said: “Fastball command wasn’t there,” Sabathia said. “Everybody knows I throw everything off my fastball. It was just cutting and up-and-out and just all over the place. It was a tough day today.”
Trivia Question:
After going 1-for-5 with an RBI yesterday, Derek Jeter has 3,001 hits while playing shortstop.
He is the first player since ___________ finished with 3,184 hits as a __________ to have 3,000 hits at one position.
Insert the player and the position he played.
Chad-You probably know the answer.
Carl Ripken, ss
QFT, C. and the stats make C’s numbers look far better than an 0-4 record. I can’t believe people last night were questioning whether he is an ace.
Yankeefem,
Yea I think that’d be one advantage of going 6 man if they coukd make it work…..it wouldn’t be the end of the world to skip CC a start……I didn’t realize he was on pace to throw so many innings until recently.
That Varitek call was total BS. I was worried when he didn’t get that because he was visibly tiring.
The Boston hex thing on CC is bullsh*t though. THe media is just going to run with this forever, but I don’t think C gives it a second thought.
Like I said last night, I was slightly concerned with C’s start in Chicago. He seemed a little off & I wondered if that near no-no game, with two interruptions, took something out of him. He may be going through a little bit of a fatigue period. We’d be very smart to give him an extra day. I also would have come & gotten him earlier yesterday, but that’s done, now.
blake, not sure *why* he is on pace to throw so many, considering Joe is a planner. I would love to see C get some rest in the stretch so that he is fresh for the playoffs.
Willie Mays, CF
Yankeefem,
Me neither…..has has.gone deep in games a lot this year but then he always does that. He’s a horse so he can handle it…..but still. The Yankees are tied for first and have a huge lead on a playoff spot. ……they just broke a long winning streak.. things really aren’t bad.
Blake-
Correct-Willie Mays, CF. Did you know that or did you read it in the NY Post article!!
Pruf, QFT, about Chicago. C. may be a workhorse, but he could use a rest down the stretch.
Too much made out of C.C.’s outing. He didn’t have his normal rhythm and didn’t use or have command of all of his pitches. It happens. The same thing could happen to Beckett tonight ……. no guarantees.
Anybody willing to give back the 16 previous wins C.C. has accumulated ??
Send down Noesi so he can get more work and send up Montero for another bat. The Yankees are doing good in the bullpen. Posada has to realize that he’s not productive.
Good luck to everyone doing the charity 5k at the stadium today! The weather sucks, but we’re heading down to run now.
I am not worried at all, and agree we should be judicious about resting guys considering our huge lead for a playoff spot. It would be nice to sweep the Angels, and further distance ourselves.
I will say though that I will be thrilled to have a healthy Alex back; that middle of lineups AB’s yesterday when Teix, Cano and Swish had those busy long swing AB’s was not enjoyable to watch. Another righty bat at Fenway, and preferably two, with Montero in the mix, would help with the run support for our pitchers. How can you not add Montero to the mix? He will destroy the Green Monster, if given half a chance to get acclimated. And I hope there is no intention to have Cervelli catch C. in the playoffs, regardless of Cervy’s recent offense.
River Avenue’s commenters are far more measured than the emetics passing for analyses in here last night.
Posada doesn’t have to realize anything. He doesn’t pencil himself into the lineup. They do need Montero, though – to replace Cervelli, primarily. He can also get some turns at DH.
Trader,
Id love to claim to have just known……but they said it during the game yesterday
108,
Yea I don’t get how they are using Noesi and I think its messing him up…….if they were using him in key spots then ok…..but he’s just throwing mop up duty or low leverage innings…..stretch him back out.
Cano needs to have much better ABs tonight. You know Joshy Boy is going to hit somebody. If he does, we had better retaliate.
Yankfem we have another series up there before the season’s a wrap. Get Montero’s feet wet before we go up there, again.
CC is like Mo to me…..I have total faith even when he fails. He’s earned that with me anyway.
Worst that can happen is that the Yanks are 1 game back after tonight with a month and a half left. They also have two more series with Boston for redemption……nothing would.make.me happier than to pound Beckett tonigh though Ill admit.
YT, I guess Ripken had 705 hits off SS. I knew he played 3B. So, Willie Mays makes sense.
blake, C should have earned that with anyone with eyes. Just saying.
April 10th game-Beckett pitched a CG 2 hit shutout and our bullpen[Joba and Garcia] gave up 3 runs in the 4-0 loss.
May 14th game-Another Beckett shutout. Matt Albers and Rich Hill pitched 3 shutout innings in relief of Beckett in the 6-0 shutout.
June 9th-Again faced Beckett -7 innings 4 hits 2 runs- a 1st inning Grandy homer after Jeter plunked. Yankees get 3 more hits off Beckett, but get shutout from the 2nd inning on until scoring 1 run in bottom 9th.
Noesi is in the role they feel they need him in. Surely, it isn’t going to benefit him and it shows that they aren’t too concerned about his needs right now, but the team’s needs.
Trader, maybe we can bring back the Josh with a near 6.00 ERA against us
.
Yankeefem,
Yea I think because they have 6 starters and 7 if you count Warren then they don’t feel.they need to keep Noesi stretched out at SWB…..that said…..I think he’s really talented and hope they get him back on track being a starter for next year.
Cano looks worn down to me. Don’t know if it is fatigue or just trying too hard to make something happen. However, stats show he is batting .371 in his last ten. (mlb doesn’t show his triple slash over that stretch) The 0-fer against Boston in this series though has to stop tonight.
Worst that can happen is that the Yanks are 1 game back after tonight with a month and a half left.
——————————————-
Not so terrible. That means they have dibs before the RS on any AL player placed on waivers tomorrow, if no other AL team below them claims them.
Matt Thornton anyone. Would the Tigers, Indians, Rangers and/or the Moreno cheapskate Angels dare put a claim in and risk the WS dumping the rest of his overpriced salary on them?
Yep, Pruf. I am sure Joshy will throw at us as usual. We had better protect our own. We are due to hit him, but when he is throwing first pitch strikes, we can get overly aggressive. However, we should hit him enough if we have good AB’s and Freddy keeps us in the game.
yankfem, the Lester AB by Cano was a good tough one. It’s over-and-out roll overs that make me grit my teeth. He’s usually a monster in that park.
Last time we faced Beckett he really didn’t have that good stuff. Cano needs to be big for us with Alex down.
Watching Jorge in his final year is very similar to watching Willie Mays and several others bow out just a shell of their former selves. Some stay a year longer than they should have. The Yankees caved in on a 4-year deal for Jorge when it should have been a 3-year deal with a team option for another year.
A catcher gets beat up more than any other position player. Yankee fans saw the very last of what Jorge could productively be in 2010. His bat speed is the biggest indicator.
Didn’t see Noesi yesterday. Did getting hit in the chest occur later, after he had given up runs? Was it location or the RS hitting good pitches?
blake, it will be interesting to see with the do with Noesi. I think he is talented as well, but if they are moving one of Manny/Dellin in at some point next year (with inning restrictions, granted) and keep Nova, they will have an overload of SP’s. Interesting to see how Warren has progressed since I saw him in Trenton. He had a dearth of secondary offerings then, and was inconsistent commanding said secondary pitches. He looked good the one time I saw him this year, but I am still not sold on Warren.
sorry, meant to say, *what they do” with Noesi
I don’t think Cano has got the ball out of the infield so far this series.
I agree he needs to have better at bats tonight. Consistency this season is really what’s hurting him.
Noesi’s in the strike zone a lot in general, & when he hasn’t pitched much, that’s trouble.
CC has thrown a ton of innings I believe for two reasons this season.
One, he has been beastly and pitching deep into games. Two, with all the rainouts early in the season they kept re-working the rotation getting CC more starts.
I have neatly avoided the papers & will similarly steer clear of talk radio today.
Last thing I need to do is indulge the lowest common denominator narrative that CC has some terminal problem with the Red Sox, as was proffered here in a blaze of paranoia over & over again last night by the usual suspects, & some fake Yankee fans whose names I’ve never seen before.
Posada had a terrific 2009 season when the Yankees won it all. Was the .285 BA, .363 OB%, .522 Slugging% and 22 homers worth the extra year in a pennant race and eventual WS trophy?
The Yankees gave him the extra year soon after Posada had lunch with Mets GM Omar Minaya.
I hope the yankees show some character by pounding beckett too. The bats needs to wake up bec. garcia in probability will give up runs.
Pruf, best thing is to clear out of here during a Yankees-RS loss; far too many panic posters and ugly posts. Makes you feel like you have entered the gates of hell. No reasoning with people like that.
Yankeefem,
For next year though….let’s say Garcia and Colon sign elsewhere. Garcia I would try to bring back but Colon will be 39 next year…..I don’t think they can count on them both again. I also wouldn’t be shocked if they tried to find a taker for AJ this winter……they may not be successful but wouldn’t surprise me to see them try.
Im hoping they shoot for 2013 with Banuelos and let him build his innings and finish his development to completion…..we’ll see.
You’re right, YF. Same type that panics that the system can never help & we should trade everybody for “proven” players. They can’t tolerate a single hiccup, they need 24 hour prosperity to believe in anything or anyone. The wind blows them every which way because they have no real ground to stand on. Waste of time.
When the Yankees face Wakefield after one of Beckett, Lester, or Buchholz, the change in tempo/velocity makes him more difficult to hit. Maybe Garcia will keep them off balance enough to get 6 solid innings in, before SOROMO come in to shut the door in a Yankees win tonight
I also hope they don’t overpay Wilson this winter. Let the kids develop in 2012 and then put the full court press on Hamels in 2013 to supplement them.
LGY, we only have two off days in August with a day-night and only two in Sept. Hopefully, no more rainouts and they had better make sure C. gets some rest.
Manny may not need all of 2013. Even if he does, they’re not the most patient bosses Cashman has. They’ll be pressure for the Little Lefty to make an impact or they’ll want him dealt for a warm body. They are just not very dependable to take sane routes to prosperity. At least, I don’t trust them.
Sabathia, Hughes, Nova, Garcia, Betances/Noesi /Warren in 2012!!
All of 2012, that is.
They’re less likely to rush Betances.
J Alfred,
Id love to see them get Manny 170-180 innings at SWB next year and then put him in the big league rotation in 2013 with no limits. If there is one kid they should take there time with and develop right then its him.
blake, I agree about CJ/Hamels. I hope that they won’t rush Manny, but if he is ready, they will liikely incorporate him sooner than later.
The ownership is the Yankee farm’s worst enemy. I am hoping with Larry Rothschild around, no arm arrives before it’s time & no arm that deserves to be here languishes. But I don’t trust the suits to do things right.
Pruf, agree about Betances vs. Manny. Would like to see Dellin find his end of last season FB command before this season is out. Manny too can be more consistent.
Also It will be interesting to see what happens once DePaula is pitching, if he is advanced as people say he is. There were all kinds of rumors that he would be on the fast track to AA, but now not having pitched a year, don’t know how that will impact DePaula’s development and progress.
I can’t help but wonder where Joba might be if Rothschild had been mentoring him instead of Eiland…
Blake-
From the list of FA starters, other than lefties CJ Wilson, Paul Maholm and Mark Buehrle[ with Wilson garnering the most interest], would righty Chris Carpenter, if the Cardinals don’t pick up his option, interest anyone?
blake, 3/5′s homegrown SP’s sound good to me. Then in 2013 we have choices regarding supplementing from without. Interesting to see how much Phillies will want to shell out for Hamels.
Pruf, Betances probably could go 150, but he’ll never get there now. Interesting to see if they let him go deeper into games in the stretch here. FB command could move him into the bp mix. However, if he goes unused up here, not the best thing for him. Wonder if he will play Winter ball.
Trader,
Id have interest in Carp on a short term stop gap type deal…..but not more than that. I think this winter should be more of the same from the deadline…….if you’re not adding someone better than what you have then pass.
Also It will be interesting to see what happens once DePaula is pitching, if he is advanced as people say he is. There were all kinds of rumors that he would be on the fast track to AA, but now not having pitched a year, don’t know how that will impact DePaula’s development and progress.
////
DePaula get his visa yet??
Yankeefem,
Yea….I think if the Philkies can’t extend him and he makes it to the open market then the Yanks will be all out after him….he’ll be 4 years younger than Lee. Of course we have to see if he’s still pitching great and what the Yanks needs are. If they could have Sabathia, Hamels, and Banuelos in the rotation ……and then 2 of Hughes, Nova, Betances, Noesi, Warren between ……..then that would be awesome and a very young rotation.
yankeefeminista August 7th, 2011 at 10:05 am
Pruf, Betances probably could go 150, but he’ll never get there now. Interesting to see if they let him go deeper into games in the stretch here. FB command could move him into the bp mix. However, if he goes unused up here, not the best thing for him. Wonder if he will play Winter ball.
////
At some point, they have to let him loose. Not doing him or themselves any favors by rescuing him from jams. He expressed frustration that they take the ball out of his hand…
Time to get out of here.
Enjoy the game, folks. Let’s slap Josh around tonight to reclaim first place.
No visa for Depaula yet. But he should be good to go next season, and I am hoping he will spend bountiful time in Trenton.
Carpenter’s numbers look good, but haven’t really paid attention to his starts. Has he looked good? His velocity is up and his K to BB rates are nice.
I don’t Philly lets Hamels walk.
Later.
doubt*
Too much typing.
See you later
I am heading out myself in search of breakfast in a minute. Did anyone definitively hear that ManBan is pitching the first game?
Halladay is only signed through 2013 with a vesting option for 14 so they would only have to survive 1 or 2 years with 3 pitchers getting big dollars. I would be shocked if they let Cole walk
YF, DePaula will get his visa when they reconfigure the 50 States
Today is already dragging too much. B-bye
Must be Manny for first game because Pendleton is listed for second one.
maybe i have a short attention span, but all this talk about hamels bores me to no end. so much can happen in a year ,let alone two years.
now betances and banuelos i find interesting because they are something the yankees re developing.
as far as sabathia, obviously a change in pattern and strategy needs to be made. it’s not above the red sox to cheat either. remember the tv and bullpen signaling. honest scouting may have seen something. he may be tipping pitches. it could be a lot of things.
the point is change it up. the best pro golfers in the world go to the practice range partly to warm up , but also very much to see what their ball flight is that day. whatever it is , they play it. CC needs plan b if the fastball command isn’t there with the red sox. they are too patient a team and get in hitters counts much easier than some lesser teams.
CC has enough weapons that if he embraces a plan b could easily execute it. he’s so good against the rest of the teams he just doesn’t have to do it. with the red sox he does. if he faced the yankees the same thing would happen.
i also thing he has to stay away from long pitch counts in any one inning because he doesn’t seem in shape to go 30 pitches in an inning. at a certain point he has to pitch to contact in the innings that start to get away and limit the damage by not fighting against every run scoring. get outs nd get them faster.
my bigger point is change the plan. just saying he didn’t have fastball command doesn’t really help because he’s not always going to have it. do something about it instead of just saying you didn’t have it.
Nah, DePaula should be OK for next year. He is at least now officially listed as a Yankee. That is progress.
Garcia & Beckett…I smell a blowout on National TV
“maybe i have a short attention span, but all this talk about hamels bores me to no end. so much can happen in a year ,let alone two years.”
True…..but Im sure the Yanks keep an eye on what’s going to be available in the future when they make decisions…..its one reason they passed on Santana…..because they knew CC was going to be there the next year. Of course a lot can happen…..just thinking out loud. I would love it if they didn’t need him at all next next winter.
randy l =
I thought I read a quote that Sabathia said he didn’t change it up quickly enough. So, probably he was aware he needed to switch it up, but he needed to go for it sooner.
I’m with you on the Hamels, et al. talk. Too much in the here and now to think about what might could happen maybe if at some point.
In any event, I’m not worried about CC in general, though I do think he could use to skip a day at some point this month. He’s been tossing a lot of innings – been the horse, as it were. Also, a clunker was due. Stinks it was against the Sox, only because of the inordinate amount of attention and undue weight given these games.
Plus, I can’t get very upset knowing that at worst the Yankees leave Boston one game out.
A GEM OF AN ARTICLE!!!!!
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/l.....8;FEEDNAME=
blake-
you and yankee femimista are by far two of the best posters on here and i wasn’t saying you shouldn’t discuss hamels. i’m just saying that is too far out in the future for me to look at much. i’m also saying that hamels has never interested me as a baseball player. it was like when greineke was available. i was never interested in him.
i think because i have limited time during parts of the year , i make quick reads on what i think in like 4/10′s of a second and i go with it. i do remember that cashman targeted CC long before he got him, but hamels doesn’t seem like a horse like sabathia. again just my quick read and i readily admit i don’t follow hamels at all.
on a different note i think the yankees are in great shape. it appears they are going to wait till sept to bring up montero and i suppose that’s a safe way to do it. i would have preferred asap , like now, but sept is only three weeks away.
The Sux are CC’s daddy.
randy, Montero needs to be brought up by August 31st or he cannot be on the playoff roster. That will not do at all.
As for Hamels, not really concerned about him one way or another, as much as would definitely consider him if he gets to FA status depending on what kind of pitcher he looks like at that point. However, I agree two years is a long time away, and I am all for growing our own pitchers and being as self-sufficient as is possible.
Randy,
Always enjoy reading your posts…..and agree that they need to get Montero up soon. Today would be fine with me to be honest
. Also agree that I think the Yankees are in really good shape for the now and for the future….
Montero won’t be on the playoff roster……he’s not coming up until 9/01
It is patently absurd not to avail ourselves of Montero’s bat for the playoffs.
YF-
I couldn’t agree more.
There have been plenty of kids who have come up to make their debuts in Aug and Sept and were still included on the playoff roster.
Montero won’t be on the playoff roster……he’s not coming up until 9/01
===================
doesn’t matter
There are ways around the 8/31 deadline. The kid could take the place of someone who is on the DL and be eligible for the playoff roster.
Happens all the time.
J. Alfred Prufrock says:
August 7, 2011 at 10:00 am
I can’t help but wonder where Joba might be if Rothschild had been mentoring him instead of Eiland.
**********
Exactly where he is right now a failed starter and relief pitcher.
“Exactly where he is right now a failed starter and relief pitcher.”
calling a 25 year old that was given 1 season only to start and who was really having a nice season in relief this year before injury a failure is kinda an overstatement don’t you think? Joba had a 2.83 ERA this year.
I can’t help but wonder where Joba might be if Rothschild had been mentoring him instead of Eiland
===========================
Who knows? I think it’s probably a significant stretch to suggest Eiland played a key role in how Chamberlain’s career has worked out to this point. Decisions about a commodity like Chamberlain are made at a lot higher level than pitching coach.
WC, Joba is not a failed starter; he is a pitcher who they chose not to use as a starter. There is a big difference.
Montero has to be on 25 man active roster by midnight Aug. 31 and can only be added if he isn’t on playoff roster as a result of an injury.
I meant he was a failed starter – and is now a relief pitcher and I dont think a pitching coach would have changed that. His was an organizational decision.
I think pitching coaches get far too much credit and blame. The one starter that needs real fixing is AJ and that has not gone very well.
# Mell August 7th, 2011 at 11:09 am
I can’t help but wonder where Joba might be if Rothschild had been mentoring him instead of Eiland
===========================
Who knows? I think it’s probably a significant stretch to suggest Eiland played a key role in how Chamberlain’s career has worked out to this point. Decisions about a commodity like Chamberlain are made at a lot higher level than pitching coach.
—————————————————-
True but Eiland was the one that came out and said how Joba is better suited for the pen. No doubt decisions are made about him can’t deny that.
The pitching did take a dip with him at the helm.
yankeefeminista says:
August 7, 2011 at 11:12 am
WC, Joba is not a failed starter; he is a pitcher who they chose not to use as a starter. There is a big difference.
*********
Semantics. They wanted him to start and they decided he couldn’t cut it. Call it what you will.
Exactly where he is right now a failed starter and relief pitcher.
=================================
Did he really have the opportunity to fail as a starter? He basically got a season and a half worth of starts at a relatively young age and posted an ERA superior to the AL average. Has he been a better relief pitcher than starter? Sure. Don’t think you can say he failed as a starter though.
WC, It is not semantics. “Failed” indicates inability to succeed. If you want to go by traditional stats, Joba had a 12- 7 record as a starter and a .632 winning %.
Villa Nova-Ya is
9 R C
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“I meant he was a failed starter – and is now a relief pitcher and I dont think a pitching coach would have changed that. His was an organizational decision.”
Maybe….I don’t know that….I just think Joba can still have a successful career and think he was getting started on it before his elbow popped.
eiland was championed by many on the blog when he was in power, and he had some power, but the reality was that he was nothing special . i never liked him much though, i think he was an adequate professional pitching coach. those are a dime a dozen though in the minor leagues.
it will be interesting how the yankees bring back joba. i suppose it will be determined by need at the time. you never know , they could bring him back as a starter if there was a hole there.
Joba had a 12- 7 record as a starter and a .632 winning %
=================================
Now you’ve hit on the notable downside to Chamberlain’s time as a starter. He usually didn’t last long enough to get a decision. 19 decisions in 43 starts and less than 6 innings per (granted a fewl of those were shortened as part of the process of converting from a reliever to a starter) is not all that good and asks a lot of the bullpen. Again, he was an awfully young pitcher at the time he was a starter, but he did often struggle to give them length.
they could bring him back as a starter if there was a hole there
———————————–
They could but seeing how there was a need this season and he wasn’t even considered for it leads me to believe he’ll be back as a reliever.
Randy,
what do you think of Rothschild so far? I like that he apparently has them long tossing again…..wasn’t Eiland a no long toss guy in general?
CC’s struggles against the Red Sox this season are pretty inexplicable. I wouldn’t read too much into it. As he mentioned, it’s not like he’s never beat the Red Sox. He can still dominate lefties too.
The team will have to make Beckett work for it today or we’re toast.
J. Alfred Prufrock August 7th, 2011 at 9:18 am
River Avenue’s commenters are far more measured than the emetics passing for analyses in here last night.
Posada doesn’t have to realize anything. He doesn’t pencil himself into the lineup. They do need Montero, though – to replace Cervelli, primarily. He can also get some turns at DH.
___________________________________________________________________________
Is this guy a baseball expert or does he just think so? I don’t ever post during games, but yesterday I went online to comment about Posada’s continued lack of production at DH and the guy went nuts at me. I’d say right now we are getting nothing out of DH, especially when you compare our stats to other DH’s in the league. Lets get Nunez, Jones, and Chavez hitting there especially when A Rod comes back. Montero would be a good choice also. No one could do much worst, Posada can’t get around on the pitches, he’s too slow on the basepaths, and too many K’s and DP’s. It’s the pennant run now, we need our best guys in there.
Mell, I just used record b/c I know WC likes the wins stat. But of course Joba was totally restricted (part of the problem) and went through some growing pains in terms of length, as most young SP’s will do. Still he had some longer outings, and would have likely had more. I don’t see those numbers as somehow fatal. He also had a very respectable 4.18 ERA in 221 IP in the AL East.
blake-
i still don’t know a lot about him, but old school guys like him are pretty deep in their knowledge of the craft. the one thing i didn’t like was how he never put a gun on hughes in the bullpen when his velocity was down . i never understood that. it seems like you’d want to know an exact number.
CC’s “struggles” vs. RS are an outlier. And even more obviously so as elucidated by Chad’s game summaries above. If he has fastball command and loses then I would be more concerned. Also Crawford’s larger sample size has a .298 or something OBP vs. CC and most other RS have similar poor numbers with maybe the exception of Ellsbury and Scutaro (if I recall correctly).
I should say CC’s “struggles” *this* year. He really doesn’t struggle vs. RS.
I can’t wait until the day Randy gives Rothschild some credit. Randy, the Yankees lead the AL in ERA+, wasn’t that the metric you used to criticize Cashman and Eiland about, when the Yankees were more in the middle of the pack with that metric?
yankeefeminista,
Last year his ERA was a few ticks under 4 and we know the deal this year. That is over 8 starts. Not a small sample size anymore
yankeefeminista August 7th, 2011 at 11:39 am
CC’s “struggles” vs. RS are an outlier. And even more obviously so as elucidated by Chad’s game summaries above. If he has fastball command and loses then I would be more concerned. Also Crawford’s larger sample size has a .298 or something OBP vs. CC and most other RS have similar poor numbers with maybe the exception of Ellsbury and Scutaro (if I recall correctly).
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I believe your probably right about the Sox and CC, but it’s something we sure need CC to get beyond quickly given that he is our #1 pitcher. The 5 run inning was like the ones you see for AJ and Phil occasionally. A harmless hit, then another one, a run or two and then the big blast. Before you know it 5 runs have scored.
Becket has been a pox on the Yanks this year, hoping we can finally get to him like we have did last year.
yankeefeminista August 7th, 2011 at 11:36 am
Mell, I just used record b/c I know WC likes the wins stat. But of course Joba was totally restricted (part of the problem) and went through some growing pains in terms of length, as most young SP’s will do. Still he had some longer outings, and would have likely had more. I don’t see those numbers as somehow fatal. He also had a very respectable 4.18 ERA in 221 IP in the AL East.
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Wins are not the only thing by far, but they do matter. Find me a 300 win pitcher not in the Hall of Fame if eligible, or a 20 game winner not competing for a Cy award. You have your outliers like King Felix last year; but wins certainly speak to how well a pitcher is doing.
Except in last night’s game, C. had nothing but his slider from the first pitch. We all noticed right off the bat that he wasn’t locating to even the most pedestrian of players. So, I will worry if he gets hit WITH FB command.
Anyway, gotta head to work. Go ManBan! (12 noon start). See you later.
Hey Tiger birded #2, too bad he’s playing at 11AM. What a difference a coupkle of years have made.
Rothschild did not teach Sabathia, Garcia or Colon anything they didn’t already know IMO. If that isn’t true, I’d like to know what it is. Burnett has been a failure and Hughes has been injured.
I think Rothschild is a good pitching coach, there are many. They get far too much credit and blame as I have said IMO and too many look to them to “fix” pitchers when it’s up to the pitcher.
Case-in-point, Burnett and all the winter hooplah about his pitching barn and Rothschild. Then a decent start to the season and all the talk about his toe and stride pointing to the plate and how Rothschild was a genius. Well, you know.
West Coast Yankee Fan August 7th, 2011 at 11:45 am
yankeefeminista August 7th, 2011 at 11:36 am
Mell, I just used record b/c I know WC likes the wins stat. But of course Joba was totally restricted (part of the problem) and went through some growing pains in terms of length, as most young SP’s will do. Still he had some longer outings, and would have likely had more. I don’t see those numbers as somehow fatal. He also had a very respectable 4.18 ERA in 221 IP in the AL East.
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Wins are not the only thing by far, but they do matter. Find me a 300 win pitcher not in the Hall of Fame if eligible, or a 20 game winner not competing for a Cy award. You have your outliers like King Felix last year; but wins certainly speak to how well a pitcher is doing.
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Too bad Gator is not in there. 170-91 with a career ERA of 3.2 and he pitched for some bad teams in his era. Gator doesn’t get much credit for many of those years when he got no support and put up pretty good stats.
Olney reports Montero call up is imminent….sounds great, but Lee to the Yankees at the 2010 trade deadline was imminent too….Can’t wait for the kid to get a shot..
The Yankees should be relaxed for tonight’s game. Even with the usually long game, they fly the short distance home with tomorrow off before facing the Angels on Tuesday night.
Meanwhile, the Sux have to fly to Minnesota immediately after the game to face the Twins tomorrow night.
West Coast Yankee Fan August 7th, 2011 at 11:50 am
Rothschild did not teach Sabathia, Garcia or Colon anything they didn’t already know IMO. If that isn’t true, I’d like to know what it is. Burnett has been a failure and Hughes has been injured.
I think Rothschild is a good pitching coach, there are many. They get far too much credit and blame as I have said IMO and too many look to them to “fix” pitchers when it’s up to the pitcher.
Case-in-point, Burnett and all the winter hooplah about his pitching barn and Rothschild. Then a decent start to the season and all the talk about his toe and stride pointing to the plate and how Rothschild was a genius. Well, you know.
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I continue to think that AJ has excellent stuff, but he’s not the control pitcher of the likes of Haliday, Lee, CC, Becket ect. That’s what gets him in trouble. When he’s out there you just cringe waiting for him to walk a few or make the big mistake mislocating a pitch. I don’t know if Larry has helped him in that respect. His BB asnd HR per 9 innnings are actually up this year.
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