Let’s chat
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 07, 2011 
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Late notice, but I’m hoping some of you can stop by at in a few minutes to chat all about the Yankees season coming to an end and where the team goes from here. We’re throwing this together on the fly, but let’s say noon, as usual.
So… LoHud Yankees chat. Noon. Today. That’s in a little more than a half hour. Hope you can stop by for a while.
It’s a date
Anyone think we should try to re-sign Garcia as a bridge to the kids? I suppose he would want at least 2 years, though….
Nobody submit a question with the phrase “THESES GUYS SUCK”. Bad things happened.
“They might not get to the playoffs if Giambi’s our starting first baseman.”
That’s just an unbelievable statement.
Its amazing how much people overvalue Tex’s defense. Some of the hyperbole that gets thrown around about “how many runs he saves” “games he wins with his glove” are just laughable.
The Yankees win more games this year than they did if Giambi is their first baseman instead of Tex.
He is literally on a completely different level as an offensive player.
Sorry, but I’d take Teixeira (offensive struggles and all) any day of the week over Giambi.
LGY October 7th, 2011 at 11:21 am
I got killed earlier this season for saying I’d rather have Giambi than Tex.
They don’t lose this series with Giambino at 1B.
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Well yeah but they don’t get to the playoffs with Giambi at 1b either.
Giambi played a grand total of 64 games for fewer than 200 ABs. Now you can look at his numbers one of two ways – either you extrapolate them over the course of a full season and say that he would have been great or you realize that at 40 Giambi probably wouldn’t hold up to playing 156 games (as Tex did)
Giambi’s slash line this year: .260/.355/.603/.958, with a grand total of 13 HRs and 32 RBIs.
I’m not overvaluing Tex’s defense at all but nice try.
Chip,
I’m obviously not talking about this version of Giambi but him in his Yankee days. Come on dude.
The rotation for next year is a real concern…as it always is
Tex is a great defensive player, but that’s not why he is being paid…another rough contract
So CC’s 2010 start in the ALDS doesn’t count where he gave up 4 runs in 6 innings?
And I wouldn’t call giving up 11 hits in 6 innings to the Rangers as “excellent”. Yes he only got out of it with 2 runs, but he was pitching in and out of jams the whole game.
2009 he was great – no arguing that. It is what he has done in the others years that are a legitimate argument. Why not? People kill ARod for what he did outside of 09, so why not CC as well? Perhaps 2009 was the aberration for both of them.
I guess it was my fault for not be clear if Shame thought the same thing
I meant Yankee Years Giambi. Sorry for the confusion.
Tex is not washed up – he needs to work on his swing and try to figure out why he isn’t making contact consistently. He has the power when he connects, but he seems unable to make quality contact. He is clearly not slowing physically since he is still playing elite defence and he has great power numbers. Let’s hope that K Long can work with him to have a big bounce back year in 2012. Let’s also hope that Boston continues to implode and they are left mainly competing with Tampa for the division (Tampa scares me – their young pitchers and athletic lineup will succeed next year, and their strategy of letting guys walk and continuing to load their farm system looks to be successful again next season).
He is more of a 35 home run guy but thats beside the point. Anyone you put batting third to 5th hitting on the Yankees is going to drive in close to 100 runs. Paul Oneill never put up the gaudy home run numbers that Mark does but would anyone rather see him up in a playoff game then Oneill?
Look we are stuck with him so nothing we can do about it. The problem is we are seeing him starting to decline while he is supposed to be in his peak years which is scary to think what he will look like once he exits those years
LGY – If it makes any difference at all I’d pinch hit the current Giambi for Swish last night if he was on our bench instead of Jones lol.
CC was elite most of this season, but he clearly lost something down the stretch. That may put a small dent into his leverage this offseason (a very small dent, but I think it will hurt him a little given all the innings he has logged).
Giambi was a .290 career postseason hitter with a .911 OPS.
Tex is one of the worst Yankee postseason hitters of all time statistically. I believe only Swisher is worse.
Tampa could be really dangerous if they got another big bat.
Detroit was a bad match-up for the Yanks, I was worried about them from early Septtember on. The Yanks were weaker against power-pitching right-handers, which Detroit had plenty of. Jeter and Texeira were mediocre to poor this year vs RHP, and as far as Swisher goes, well, between RHP and his usual post-season woes, what can you say?
“The problem is we are seeing him starting to decline”
I’ve been hearing the same thing about Jeter, Triple. I just don’t buy it. Tex’s power numbers were actually UP this season. He just needs to retool his swing or never bat lefty ever again.
Hey all -
I had a pretty fitful night and woke up with an empty feeling. I’ve always been quick to adjust to Yankee losses, season and postseason, and always end up appreciating the ride. I think the kick in the stomach to me on this one is that the Yankees had so many opportunities last night to put it away, and they just didn’t. It’s one thing to get beat by a better team. It’s totally another to beat yourselves. From the rainout to Gerry Davis to Jeter’s almost-homer last night, this series was not kind to the Yankees.
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About CC – the Yankees are going to have to do a lot of looking to find a pitcher who consistently gives in the innings and the fight that CC does. I have nothing but admiration for his pitching, how hard he works, and what he’s brought to the Yankees. I think CC’s success was massively undermined when Girardi went to the 6-man rotation and stayed with it. If you look at the stats you’ll see that CC is not the same pitcher with 5 days between as he is with 4 days between. That 6-man rotation really threw him off his game.
CC was at the same disadvantage in the postseason. The rainout really killed us. Then to bring him back on very short rest and then again last night, well he did his best but you can’t expect miracles. Verlander gave up 4 runs on short rest, so that shows you what happens when pitchers are pulled from their routine.
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I guess we should be grateful for all we did get this season, especially from the rotation that was considered a total crapshoot.
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I’m sad that Joe didn’t mix and match more but on the other hand, down a few runs and playing at the Stadium, I guess he believed that the guys would come through, especially in the 9th. (And Jeter’s did come close in the bottom of the 8th.) Luck just wasn’t on our side in that series.
Tex is collaping his backside constantly batting lefty. It’s ridiculous to watch.
He is trying to pull and lift everything.
Watch Gardner, who stays level thoughout, and was able to slap multiple hits to the left side of the field throughout the ALDS. His shoulders are level – he lets the ball get deep.
Tex buckles his back leg which forces his back shoulder to drop – resulting in swings and misses and weak pop flies to left.
It’s all very clear. And K Long knows it too. Its the player who refuses to change.
I liked Giambi as much as anyone but ..come on. Let’s not let nostalgia get the better of us.
“Detroit was a bad match-up for the Yanks, I was worried about them from early Septtember on. The Yanks were weaker against power-pitching right-handers, which Detroit had plenty of. Jeter and Texeira were mediocre to poor this year vs RHP, and as far as Swisher goes, well, between RHP and his usual post-season woes, what can you say?”
Yup. Detroit was probably the worst kind of matchup for the offense. It was night and day match-up wise between them and Texas.
That is something that bears watching – it is a big concern if they are going to be this vulnerable to RHP especially in this park. A couple of years ago they were very vulnerable to lefties, now they are very vulnerable to righties and are great against lefties.
Bottom line though – they had an elimination game in their own building and only gave up 3 runs… and lost. Predictably, because they left 11 on base.
The team did not fail.
The middle of the lineup failed.
Period.
“The rainout really killed us.”
I think the rain hurt Detroit more than it hurt the Yanks. Yank pitching was fine. They just couldn’t get it done offensively.
?The rainout really killed us.?
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You have to wonder what would have happened had they gotten the game in last Friday. I know it was only 2 innings, but CC was cruising-that was the best he had looked in a long time.
Again, these series come down to a few key at-bats, just as they did in the 2009 ALDS – how soon we all forget. One swing of the bat and we tied that game up – we lose that one, who knows what would’ve happened. Arod also homered off Pavano that Series – without his heroics we go home.
You MUST capitalize on situations in a 5 game series – its all a microscope. Good pitching there will be – good hitting is not promised – it just has to happen once in a awhile.
For the Yankees, the good hitting only showed up against the underbelly of Detroit’s bullpen – in Game 1 and in Game 4.
The rainout killed us because CC was definitely on his game in Game 1 and Verlander was all over the place. CC had to come back on short rest – not his best friend. I believe we would have had Games 1 and 2. JMO
How Girardi handles Montero next season will define this offense over the next several years.
There are no easy answers with this team. Montero is the only player available that fits the mold of what they need.
If Joe can’t get over his mancrush with Martin the Yankees are in big trouble.
Tex was signed here to be an all-round hitter and a “cornerstone and anchor” as Cashman put it, of our lineup for the next 8 years to take pressure OFF the old guard as they started to age. Tex has now become a part of the old guard and is fading WITH them, not providing protection towards their fading, he is fading as well.
He was signed to be a guy with a very good average, power from both sides of the plate, switch hitter, gold glove, and a guy who sported a mid .900 OPS. That’s why he got $189 million.
Now he has become a .240 hitter with an OPS barely reaching the mid .800s who is streaky as hell and can’t hit righties. He has become an all or nothing hitter from the right side with a good glove. They could have signed Carlos Pena to provide that for a couple million bucks.
He still can turn it around, but the discussion isn’t what he might do in the future, it is what he has done in the last 2 years.
“You have to wonder what would have happened had they gotten the game in last Friday. I know it was only 2 innings, but CC was cruising-that was the best he had looked in a long time.”
Exactly what I think Erin. It was a killer to have that game rained out.
Trisha,
It’s one thing to get beat by a better team. It’s totally another to beat yourselves. From the rainout to Gerry Davis to Jeter’s almost-homer last night, this series was not kind to the Yankees.
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I would totally agree with the not kind comment, but not the we beat overselves. Beyond the two blowouts, their little guys got the hits, the middle of the order got the hits and drove in runs, and their pitchers made the right pitches in the right spots. On the other hand in the three games we lost, they scratched out enough offense against our pitching and had enough pitching to keep our offense at bay.
Wave
I know you are a big Swisher fan. What’s your take on him at this point?
I?ve been hearing the same thing about Jeter, Triple. I just don?t buy it. Tex?s power numbers were actually UP this season. He just needs to retool his swing or never bat lefty ever again.
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They were up slightly this season but he was also hurt last year. People are saying Mark is declining at age 29 and 30 nobody was saying that about Jeter at that age. Look at what Jeter was doing back then.
People had confidence and wanted Jeter at the plate in a big post season at bat. Can anyone honestly say they feel good when Mark comes up in the post season or have confidence.
Even Jerkface who had been one of his biggest defenders was calling for Posada to play first and Montero to DH
LGY – Absolutely agree.
Though I wouldn’t place it all on Joe – Cashman is the one who said Martin is like Thurmon Munson and he has been trying to get him from LA for 3 years. He had an interview in the mid-summer with Mike F. talking about Martin and how he is a “gamer” and “warrior” and threw a few more worn out cliches out about Martin that were cringe-worthy.
I think Cashman is on this Martin bandwagon as well. not just Joe. I have a bad bad feeling that Jesus is going to be shopped this winter as they buy into the narrative at their “pitching” is the problem.
trisha – true pinstriped blue October 7th, 2011 at 11:42 am
“You have to wonder what would have happened had they gotten the game in last Friday. I know it was only 2 innings, but CC was cruising-that was the best he had looked in a long time.”
Exactly what I think Erin. It was a killer to have that game rained out.
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I would say no difference. Verlander you had to figure was going to win one of those games. Actually we got a win in game 1 that we might not have expected. Outcome I think would have been the same.
@mikeaxisa
The final day of the 2009 regular season was played two years ago today. The ALDS is already over.
Montero has to be in the line-up just about every day next season……Do not platoon him. They need his bat.
Paul Oneill never put up the gaudy home run numbers that Mark does but would anyone rather see him up in a playoff game then Oneill?
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O’Neill was clutch, Tex is not, a failure in the post season.
G-C October 7th, 2011 at 11:25 am
“They might not get to the playoffs if Giambi’s our starting first baseman.”
That’s just an unbelievable statement.
Its amazing how much people overvalue Tex’s defense. Some of the hyperbole that gets thrown around about “how many runs he saves” “games he wins with his glove” are just laughable.
The Yankees win more games this year than they did if Giambi is their first baseman instead of Tex.
He is literally on a completely different level as an offensive player.
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How do you figure that?
Giambi’s stat line this year:
64 Games, 152 at bats, 13 HR, 32 RBI, .260 BA, .355 OBP, .958 OPS
Tex’s stat line this year:
155 Games, 684 at bats, 39HR, 111RBI, .248 BA, .341 OBP, .835 OPS
Yes, if you extrapolate Giambi’s numbers over a full season they’re going to end up better than Tex’s – but what, in the name of all that’s good and holy, lets you believe that Giambi would be capable of playing a full season?
Gary, my biggest problem is getting beyond those bases loaded, one-out situations last night. And then watching the bottom of the 9th just fade away. I can’t wrap my mind around the fact that we couldn’t capitalize when we should have. Were they playing tight because it was game 5? Maybe? But it was almost like an out-of-body experience to watch the Yankees fritter away those opportunities.
Then there were some really hard-hit balls that either met Detroit players’ gloves and/or stopped short of going out.
You always hear that there’s an element of luck in playoff games, and we’ve seen it time and again when it’s enured to our benefit. Last night lady luck was apparently in some casino because it wasn’t with the Yanks.
LGY-
Right now Swisher’s post-season play really annoys me. I usually think those things are just small sample size randomness but Swish now has about 150 post-season plate appearances.
I’d still re-sign him though, it’s a no-brainer for $10M.
LGY October 7th, 2011 at 11:41 am
How Girardi handles Montero next season will define this offense over the next several years.
There are no easy answers with this team. Montero is the only player available that fits the mold of what they need.
If Joe can’t get over his mancrush with Martin the Yankees are in big trouble.
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I think you’ll see Montero as the primary DH with Martin at C. On days where Alex DHs (and there will be those days) Montero will go behind the plate.
Overall I would expect him to get around 400 – 500 at bats.
Triple Short of a Cycle October 7th, 2011 at 11:43 am
I?ve been hearing the same thing about Jeter, Triple. I just don?t buy it. Tex?s power numbers were actually UP this season. He just needs to retool his swing or never bat lefty ever again.
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They were up slightly this season but he was also hurt last year. People are saying Mark is declining at age 29 and 30 nobody was saying that about Jeter at that age. Look at what Jeter was doing back then.
People had confidence and wanted Jeter at the plate in a big post season at bat. Can anyone honestly say they feel good when Mark comes up in the post season or have confidence.
Even Jerkface who had been one of his biggest defenders was calling for Posada to play first and Montero to DH
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Tex got beat by the shift and a couple three times for what would have been hits. I just have this feeling that Abner Doubleday called the game baseball not softball. Infielders should be balanced on either side of second base and unless it’s softball we don’t have a rover position out there.
Wave
You have to pick up the option. But do you look to trade him?
Erin – I literally did LOL at that. Thanks.
Yogi_Museum If the world were perfect, it wouldn’t be. But tomorrow’s 55th anniversary of the most perfect day in World Series history.
Wave Your Hat October 7th, 2011 at 11:48 am
LGY-
Right now Swisher’s post-season play really annoys me. I usually think those things are just small sample size randomness but Swish now has about 150 post-season plate appearances.
I’d still re-sign him though, it’s a no-brainer for $10M.
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I think before you re-sign Swisher you have to investigate other options. If LoMo and Heyward are available then certainly I go after one of them since they would represent a long term solution for Swisher who, even if they pick up the option, won’t be with the Yankees following the 2012 season.
(Swisher’s numbers compare favorably to Jayson Werth and I’m not going anywhere near a Werth contract for him – some team though will be dumb enough to make that investment)
Jose Molina is a free agent.
How about they sign him and trade Russell “Thurman” Martin?
Look around the league at the top guys who play first.
Do you think a majority of the fans cringe or have a lack of confidence when
Miggy,Agon,Howard,Votto,Pujols or Fielder come up. Most people want those guys up
JackCurryYES Yankees epitaph: Endless chances lost. Too many futile at bats. A loss that will and should sting 4 a while. April is a long way off.
Gary -
I think Tex and Long need to break out some video of Tex’s Texas days and get back to being the more complete hitter that he was then.
They are picking up Swishers option. You all should probably base your fantasy GM ramblings around that. Its basically guaranteed. Cashman isn’t going to pass on a cheap, beneficial option year because of the postseason.
They might trade Swisher post pickup, but they won’t decline it and let him walk.
Before I would re-sign Swisher, who gave you another zero in the post season, I would look around for someone else. Is he worth 10 million? No.
LGY –
I know you and I will never agree on this – but Russ Martin was not the problem with the Yankees this year. He was solid behind the dish and, at times, at it.
“I would say no difference. Verlander you had to figure was going to win one of those games. Actually we got a win in game 1 that we might not have expected. Outcome I think would have been the same.”
You may be right. Though I thought I heard that Verlander wasn’t slated to pitch twice in the series. Maybe I got that wrong.
Then again, if we took 1 and 2, (the originally scheduled 1 and 2) momentum may have been on the Yanks side when Freddy pitched in Detroit. And even if it got to a Game 5, CC would have been pitching on regular rest.
Anyway, it’s all speculation at this point but I could be more at peace with the whole thing if the rainout hadn’t happened.
Oh well.
Onward and upward to 2012.
LGY-
I think the Yanks have more pressing needs if they are going to do a trade. I see the Yanks’ trade focus this year being a #2 starting pitcher. If a good young outfielder falls in their lap then sure, but I doubt that will happen.
Miggy,Agon,Howard,Votto,Pujols or Fielder come up. Most people want those guys up
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Howard yes. He has set a record for highest K% in the playoffs. Easy to get out. Pujols? This year maybe. Fielder? Votto? Agon? Miggy? All younger than Tex. When they are Tex’s age, maybe people will cringe.
I hope the Yankees dont waste their time with a #2 pitcher outside of a guy like Yu Darvish or an effective trade. Pitching wasn’t the problem.
Wave
Pitching wasn’t the problem though…
Getting CJ Wilson doesn’t solve anything. Over all the games the Yankees pitched well results wise. Having better pitchers wasnt going to change it.
LGY October 7th, 2011 at 11:56 am
Wave
Pitching wasn’t the problem though…
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Yeah but counting on the kind of performances you got from bargain bin guys like Garcia and Colon repeating themselves next year is asking for trouble.
Anyone watching batting practice live yesterday would have just had their tongue hanging out watching Montero’s opposite field ease of line drives into the seats. …contrasted with watching Montero watch the game as Martin and Swisher flailed…made you want to gag. …
I just do not understand
Thank you to Chad for great coverage and support for us when we needed him. I think he did a spectacular job and made this forum a much better place.
Agree that pitching wasn’t the problem….Want no part of CJ Wilson on a long-term deal. Although I think it’s likely he re-signs with Texas anyway.
“A loss that will and should sting 4 a while.”
Sorry, I just don’t feel that sting. Let’s be pragmatic: if Nova’s not available, and CC is less than his dominant self, the Rangers give the Yanks far more than they can handle.
Can we get a mulligan on the whole Lance Berkman thing and stick him in RF???
I’d let Swisher walk and give the RF spot to someone like Dickerson. Someone who is young, hungry, and not take his spot for granted. Someone who isn’t jumpy and hyper all the time and who can put together a quality AB in the postseason
What kind of world do we live in where Nick Swisher is going to be handed $10 million for his performance, and more than one person thinks it’s a bargain and a no-brainer?
LGY and JF-
Pitching wasn’t the problem this year because the Yanks drew to an inside straight with Colon and Garcia. Both could be gone or ineffective next year. I think the Yanks realize they need a horse behind CC and I don’t think they necessarily believe that’s Nova. They will be looking hard on the trade market for a #2.
Jerkface October 7th, 2011 at 11:57 am
Getting CJ Wilson doesn’t solve anything. Over all the games the Yankees pitched well results wise. Having better pitchers wasnt going to change it.
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Very true – but you can’t count on finding two bargain bin guys next year and having them repeat the performances you got from Colon and Garcia. Nor can you count on Warren or Phelps coming up and thriving like Nova did.
The problem the Yankees face this offseason is the same one they had all season long – you only really know what you’re going to get from two pitchers. AJ and CC. AJ will be inconsistant in 2012 because that’s who he is and who he has always been and CC (if he comes back) will be a top of the rotation ACE.
LGY October 7th, 2011 at 11:58 am
Can we get a mulligan on the whole Lance Berkman thing and stick him in RF???
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Touche.
hardwired – I get what Curry’s saying. But I get what you’re saying also. At this point had we won, who would have started Game 1, in 2 days? Girardi of course could have changed the roster and pulled in Bartolo for the start.
Anyway, we’ll ever know. But for sure, lost opportunities.
New Post: LoHud Yankees chat
“What kind of world do we live in where Nick Swisher is going to be handed $10 million for his performance,”
A world in which an OF who you can write in for an 800+ OPS is worth more than $10M.
Chasing a “No 2″ is off the scent, especially if you’re wasting good prospects for it.
Get creative with the arms we already have here.
LGY, of course you know there’s a difference between being dumped in the New York spotlight and playing in the most bucolic city for sports – St. Louis.
?What kind of world do we live in where Nick Swisher is going to be handed $10 million for his performance,?
Wave Your Hat October 7th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
A world in which an OF who you can write in for an 800+ OPS is worth more than $10M.
Ugh – even in our ugly post mortem, people still swatting me with the stat sheet – good for my birdcage
I never loved Giambi…and he was terrible near the end
Giambi had a decent glove for a cigar store indian.
DRob30 I don’t know what to do with myself. Still can’t believe it’s over…
about 1 hour ago ·
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This.