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Were there missed deadline opportunities?

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 08, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

On the night the Yankees were eliminated, they were beaten by a starting pitcher who easily could have been pitching for them.

Doug Fister was traded at the deadline. He came to Detroit with reliever David Pauley for a package of four young players. He came with a miserable 3-12 record, but he also came with a 3.33 ERA, a 1.17 WHIP and a contract that had not yet reached arbitration. With the Tigers, Fister was a difference maker, going 8-1 with a 1.79 ERA.

Should he have been with the Yankees?

It’s easy to look back and say, yes. Fister is still just 27 years old, and although he’s not an overpowering pitcher, he doesn’t walk many guys and he’s been a reliable starter for two and a half seasons now.

It’s also easy to look back and remember what the Yankees were on July 31. They were a team with too many middle-of-the-rotation starters as it was. They needed a clear upgrade, and although Fister looks like that today, back in July he was a guy with a 4.40 ERA on the road and a 3.42 at spacious Safeco Field. He was a nice pitcher, but not one who was clearly better than Ivan Nova or Freddy Garcia or the freshly healthy Phil Hughes or the still-pitching-well Bartolo Colon.

Ubaldo Jimenez looked like a real upgrade, but he went to Cleveland and pitched to a 5.10 ERA in the last two months. His worst starts were against — who else? — the Detroit Tigers. Edwin Jackson was a nice addition for the Cardinals, but he fits the Fister profile as a not-a-sure-thing addition for the Yankees. Hunter Pence helped balance the Phillies lineup, but the Yankees had no pressing need in the outfield. Francisco Rodriguez helped the Brewers advance, but the Yankees bullpen was a strength, not a weakness.

It’s easy to look back at Fister as a missed opportunity, but it’s also easy to look back at the Yankees situation in late July and believe Cashman when he says, “I don’t see there was any missed opportunity I could have done differently.”

Associated Press photo

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185 Responses to “Were there missed deadline opportunities?”

  1. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    The loss of Pettitte was never compensated for…and might not be for years.

  2. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    He was the “guts” of the staff, not an Ace but the glue.
    Nothing iffy about him…

  3. jmv October 8th, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    Fister surely would have meant to lose Nova. No, thanks. I prefer the upside

  4. J. Alfred Prufrock October 8th, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Fister wasn’t even that good. But he’ll now be turned into some kind of ALDS Yankee-slaying folk hero whom we should have known was a “must have.”

    Brother.

  5. luis October 8th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Mick,

    Manny Banuelos is on his way…2013 is not that far away, but Andy was missed this season

  6. jmv October 8th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Mick,
    Agree about Pettitte

  7. J. Alfred Prufrock October 8th, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Where, I wonder, would Fister be in the postseason pitcing hierarchy if Montero had been given the chance to knock him around the park?

    Thanks, Joe.

  8. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    We need solid pitchers.
    Buehrle would be good.

  9. RadioKev October 8th, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:09 pm
    The loss of Pettitte was never compensated for…and might not be for years.
    ——–

    Andy Pettite’s don’t grow on trees. Nova looks like he has that type of make up, though.

    I’m with you Chad, there weren’t any clear opportunities Cashman missed out on. To be realistic, this team had every piece they needed to win the World Series. They just didn’t play up to their potential. What can you do?

    I for one love the new group of competition in baseball. It’s really robust, and a very exciting time for the game. I’m only 23, but I can easily say I’ve never seen it this good.

  10. J. Alfred Prufrock October 8th, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Manny’s coming, & don’t make the mistake of dismissing the Dealin’ One ;).

  11. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    I still think Jamie Moyer gets a ST invite.
    Can’t wait for ST…

  12. JM October 8th, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    At the time, the Yankees seemed to have a surplus of decent pitching….Colon and Garcia were both pitching really well. And I don’t think the Yankees were eager to do a deal with Jack Z.

  13. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    Betances is so raw.
    He has no command.
    Strange…

  14. RadioKev October 8th, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
    Betances is so raw.
    He has no command.
    Strange…
    ——

    But boy did he look promising in his 2 IP start against Tampa.

  15. 4 NYY October 8th, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    I still think Jamie Moyer gets a ST invite.
    Can’t wait for ST…

    ==============================================

    Whitey Ford, my all time favorite is still with us too !

  16. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    His delivery is awkward, short arm or something.

  17. J. Alfred Prufrock October 8th, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    mick, that’s a massive overstatement. He will be fine. Doesn’t need pinpoint command with his stuff, anyway, but he does need to not be wild, and that’s something he isn’t very often.

  18. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    Moyer will be back, I promise you.
    Coming off TJ he will be strong.

  19. luis October 8th, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    Chad,

    I think the work Cashman did in the offseason was outstanding. I have no regrets from the trade line. I am with JAP here, if Joe lets Montero hit, Fister is not even an afterthought.

  20. J. Alfred Prufrock October 8th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    He does not short arm the ball. You’ve got him confused with someone else. He’s got a pretty extreme over the top delivery. What he could do more of is use his legs. You’ve seen him how many times?

  21. 4 NYY October 8th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    Moyer will be back, I promise you.
    Coming off TJ he will be strong.

    ========================

    All of 74, 63, 72, 65 MPH ! LOL

  22. jmv October 8th, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    When was Moyer’s TJ?

  23. luis October 8th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    Mick,

    Dellin has shown a lot of promise, his control issues have been overblown

  24. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    They are iffy next year on the mound.
    Garcia could be back but I doubt Colon.
    Nova is still an If.
    It worked out last year but…again?
    Hughes and a FA and they get close to 100 wins again but they need another solid starter or 2.

  25. J. Alfred Prufrock October 8th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    luis, the manager didn’t allow us to prove it!!! :(

    (but we can tell, what we can tell ;)).

  26. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    not as much as you pruf…

  27. tomingeorgia October 8th, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    JAP,
    Do you have anything to do with Lawrenceville?

    When do they announce mlb.com spring training package?

  28. Red Robin October 8th, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    Montero for Fister

  29. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    moyer is jimmy key type…no velocity needed.

  30. Yankee Trader October 8th, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    It’s easy to look back at Fister as a missed opportunity, but it’s also easy to look back at the Yankees situation in late July and believe Cashman when he says, “I don’t see there was any missed opportunity I could have done differently.”
    —————————————————————–
    Could have brought up Montero sooner and had Girardi get him used to catching the staff.

  31. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    girardi better fet used to seeing montero behind the plate…. a cervelli trade would be reassuring.

  32. 4 NYY October 8th, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    moyer is jimmy key type…no velocity needed.

    ===========================================

    Key wasn’t THAT soft.

  33. Betsy October 8th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    Um, no……..It’s only “easy” if you’re into criticizing the Yankees at every turn. LOL They won the division and Fister did NOT win the ALDS by himself.

  34. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    key wasn’t as soft as moyer but he was a winner with savvy is what i meant.

  35. GreenBeret7 October 8th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    The only thing Moyer can do is nothing. A soft….really soft tossing left handed fly ball pitcher is the ticket. I wouldn’t even want him as a lefty specialist. Hardly a fit.

  36. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    the yanks had a 6 man rotation and there was a need for fister?
    he was lucky his fist wasn’t handed to him in game 5 as they missed many mistakes.

  37. jmv October 8th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    Mick,

    Do you still consider Nova an if? The kid looked really good, especially in his second half… Why do you think so?

  38. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    how do you know what moyer can do?

  39. tomingeorgia October 8th, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    GB7,
    I bet he gets an invite somewhere, though.

  40. GreenBeret7 October 8th, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    Moyer might have been a Jimmy Key type….15 years ago.

  41. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    nova is not a given, he is certainly not a phenom.
    2nd full year will tell…i like him, don’t get me wrong but we need more.
    can’t rely on aj, freddy and bart again.
    hughes would be key but he is iffy too.

  42. GreenBeret7 October 8th, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Tom, he might, but, not in NY. Boston is looking for pitching prospects, I hear.

  43. J. Alfred Prufrock October 8th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    mick, don’t worry about his command. He’s got so much movement on his stuff, if he gets it around the plate, they’re going to offer at it and either miss it or not get good wood on it. Wish you guys could see him more often.

  44. blake October 8th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Fister wouldn’t have helped anything…..the only way it may have helped would have been if Detroit not having him would have meant the Yankees played somebody else in the first round…..but aside from that he wouldnt have helped much…..he would have helped the Red Sox a lot more than the Yankees

  45. luis October 8th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
    girardi better fet used to seeing montero behind the plate…. a cervelli trade would be reassuring.

    ================================

    The time to trade Cervelli is at the tradeline of July or in the next offseason. Martin is going to be back for a year, Montero is the DH and BUC, but we need a third string catcher, that’s Cervelli until Romine is ready.

  46. 4 NYY October 8th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    key wasn’t as soft as moyer but he was a winner with savvy is what i meant.

    ==============

    Agreed

  47. GreenBeret7 October 8th, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    Moyer and Wakefield can go to AARP Discount Night at Golden Corral together.

  48. J. Alfred Prufrock October 8th, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    tomingeorgia October 8th, 2011 at 4:24 pm
    JAP,
    Do you have anything to do with Lawrenceville?

    When do they announce mlb.com spring training package?
    ///

    tom, sorry, not sure what you mean? Lawrenceville is a town around the Princeton area and also a well known prep school.

  49. blake October 8th, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    The only missed opportunity was not bringing Montero up sooner

  50. 4 NYY October 8th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    With Chavez going or gone, Nunez ( has to get better & will IMO) Laird & or Pena can handle infield subs. Still hoping for Nunez to play some outfield. Good arm, speed, and will hit better than this year.

    Hope they don’t overspend to bring CC back. (Little if any)

    Hughes might well wind up as a reliever if he’s unable to maintain his heater like this year.

    Still hoping for one of B’s to have a great spring and make the team.

    Wish AJ could be traded. Yanks would have to eat some contract. Just don’t wanna see another year of him.

    IMO, A-Rod may or may not ever be better than he was this year. He looked normal in the field. Totally up in the air. Words about his condition mean little. But, we’ll see.

    May have to trade a young catcher for a pitcher. Hope not Jesus.

    Montero should be looked at as next year’s DH PERIOD ( against all P’s) & Catch as needed.

    Swish ? Like him, but he doesn’t produce in post season. So, a trade ?

    Gotta stay with Gardner for another year. He could blossom at any time. His “A” game is at about a C right now. Great in field.

    Jeter good for another year or two.

    Teix must change his approach to hitting. Using the whole field will enable him to not chase so much off speed stuff. Especially when hitting left.

    Cano will get even better IMO

    Grandy only needs to cut down on K’s somewhat.

    Young pitching and catching seems to be in our future big time.

    Will Girardi be back ?

    Cashman ?

    Repost from last page.

    Open for comments.

  51. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    you can join them at the golden corral…

  52. J. Alfred Prufrock October 8th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    I wish that 6-man thing had been settled a lot earlier. I don’t think that situation helped C.

  53. tomingeorgia October 8th, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    JAP,
    Just speculating. Your approach to the younger posters and your name suggest a prep school connection. None of my business, anyway. Almost went to Lawrenceville, by the way, back in the day.

  54. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    CC was derailed by the 6man but it was necessary , they had to see what Phil had left.

  55. luis October 8th, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    Got to go guys, nice threads, see you later

  56. 4 NYY October 8th, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    luis October 8th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
    girardi better fet used to seeing montero behind the plate…. a cervelli trade would be reassuring.

    ================================

    The time to trade Cervelli is at the tradeline of July or in the next offseason. Martin is going to be back for a year, Montero is the DH and BUC, but we need a third string catcher, that’s Cervelli until Romine is ready.

    =====================================

    I think Romine is ready for just that. Cervelli has a little more value after this year, I would think.

  57. J. Alfred Prufrock October 8th, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    blake October 8th, 2011 at 4:35 pm
    The only missed opportunity was not bringing Montero up sooner
    ///

    This is the unvarnished truth.

    Media types have soundbite attention spans, as do the people who get caught in their web & regurgitate what they spin, so it’s very hard to show bald evidence that is the derivative of an earlier, yet critical, error.

    But what you say is how it is.

  58. Betsy October 8th, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    I can’t tell if Chad is just trying to spark conversation or if he really believes the Yankees messed up

  59. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    luis

    if you can get something of value for cervelli, you do it
    3rd string catchers are a dime a dozen

  60. Betsy October 8th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    Blake, they won the division……..so I don’t see how that hurt anything. I get that Yankee fans just wanted to see him, but obviously the Yankees waited until they thought it was the right time to bring him up. I’ve no problem with that at all.

  61. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    its a slow news day betsy

  62. Bayareanyy October 8th, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    On the current divisional playoff format:

    A short 5 game series allows for more opportunities for weaker teams to upset stronger teams. MLB appears to have more wild card champions than all of the other major sports. The 1 game HFA is not significant. MLB has the lowest home winning % among the major sports.

    I would propose either a 5 game series with higher seed having 4 games at home in a 2-1-2 format (and share game 4 gate with other team) or a 7 game series.

    I like the 4 home games in a 5 game series. Then, the long 162 game regular season champion will have a real tangible benefit and incentive to play to the end of the season.

    The Yankees and the Phillies could have benefitted from this type of format.

  63. J. Alfred Prufrock October 8th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    tomingeorgia October 8th, 2011 at 4:38 pm
    JAP,
    Just speculating. Your approach to the younger posters and your name suggest a prep school connection. None of my business, anyway. Almost went to Lawrenceville, by the way, back in the day.
    ///

    Interesting comment. I did not go to prep school, for the record. It’s a great school, though; I don’t have any affiliation but I know kids who went through there to Princeton. tom, we’re practically neighbors, just the wrong timeline :D.

  64. GreenBeret7 October 8th, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    If NYYs want to get their players ready for the season during Spring Training, they need to schedule more split roster games to give the batters more than 40-45 at bats in game competition. More importantly, the pitchers need more than 15-18 innings of game time to get ready. Hitters used to get 65-80 at bats and pitchers would get up to 35 innings.

  65. J. Alfred Prufrock October 8th, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    and pssst, tom, my name isn’t really J. Alfred Prufrock…but given your background, I’m sure you know who the “real” Prufrock is…;).

  66. jmv October 8th, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    Mick,
    Now I see your point with Nova. Good, not great (for now, LOL). I also think we need more. But if the price is too high, I’ll rather wait

  67. blake October 8th, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    Betsy,

    because had they brought him up earlier and actually let him catch some then maybe he gets to hit instead of Martin in one of those big moments in the playoffs……instead he sat over there and watched as Martin flailed away.

  68. blake October 8th, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    The “Yankees have to go after CJ Wilson talk has already begun”

  69. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Ideally with CC-Nova and Hughes? then AJ and Berhle/Garcia we could get by w/out Wilson.

  70. J. Alfred Prufrock October 8th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    Even Kevin Goldstein remarked that the Yankees, despite the loss, are in great shape – much better than Boston or Philadelphia, because those teams have nothing like Montero, Betances, and Banuelos knocking on the door.

  71. hardwired7 October 8th, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    Maybe Hunter Pence?

    Advance apologies to the Swisher fanboys, but Pence in right would have made a difference vs. the Tigers, one would think.

  72. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    There could be a big deal involving Montero and Swisher , I hope not but would love to deal swish , it’s his last year here.

  73. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    I don’t see Cash and Co. spending big bucks on anybody this year, it looks like another bridge year with 2013 another story w/Kemp out there and Hamels.

  74. tomingeorgia October 8th, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    JAP,
    Somehow I knew that. You don’t sound like a man suffering at the idea of end of life, or being “etherised” on the surgeon’s table. Let’s go, Jesus!

  75. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    Swish might have had his last straw this alds….doubt they want to see him fail again next year and you know we will be there and he will.

  76. Betsy October 8th, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    Blake, I just think that’s on Joe in that particular game…….

  77. mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    blake…say cervelli made the roster and they kept montero too…think they would have pinchhit jesus for martin?

  78. Chad Jennings October 8th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    Betsy October 8th, 2011 at 4:39 pm e
    I can’t tell if Chad is just trying to spark conversation or if he really believes the Yankees messed up

    —-

    Where did I write that the Yankees messed up?

  79. J. Alfred Prufrock October 8th, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    tom, LOL. somehow I knew you knew…

  80. blake October 8th, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    mick,

    maybe….it would have been more likely….

  81. luis October 8th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Mick, 4 NYY,

    Agreed, but it would be a waste of talent to use Romine in that role, i rather leave him in triple A to get ready for a more prominent role in 2013. No i’m out for real!!

  82. blake October 8th, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    I wanted them to go after Beltran or Pence if the price had been reasonable. Turns out the Giants gave up probably their best pitching prospect for nothing….they didn’t even make the playoffs. Pence would have been nice because he has 2 more years of control after this year…..but who knows what the Astros would have asked for him.

  83. mick October 8th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    blake

    i don’t see joe hitting for anybody other than gardner who was our best clutch hitter in alds
    posada against a lefty was the only time

  84. blake October 8th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    mick,

    maybe not….who knows..

  85. mick October 8th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    joe would not do that to swisher or martin

  86. Betsy October 8th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    Chad, you didn’t – I thought that the implication in your question was that the Yankees should have done more. I apologize if that’s not what you intended.

    The thing about the trade deadline is that teams will ask for the world from the Yankees for good, not great, players. I don’t know if Cash was interested in Fister, but I doubt he’d have wanted to deal with Jack Z anyway

  87. mick October 8th, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    they are blaming his not hitting for martin on not wanting montero to catch but i doubt he would hit for him or swisher with anyone

  88. Betsy October 8th, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    Teams are not going to ask for our secondary pitching prospects – Houston undoubtedly asked for what everyone would ask for (Montero, Betances, Banuelos, etc……..). It’s why we need to try and supply our needs mostly from within

  89. mick October 8th, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    there goes chad stirring controversy again :)

  90. LockDown October 8th, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    mick October 8th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    blake…say cervelli made the roster and they kept montero too…think they would have pinchhit jesus for martin?

    I think Romine is a better catcher than cervelli & he didn’t make the roster. Had Cervelli stayed healthy, maybe Montero doesn’t make the roster if Joe is too timid to leave Cervelli off. This is due to the fact that Posada is on the roster. They weren’t going to have all 4 of them.

    In order to have Posada on the roster, Either Montero or Cervelli/Romine were going to be left off.

  91. blake October 8th, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    if they had been comfortable with Montero catching I have a hard time believing they wouldn’t have hit him for Martin late in that game

  92. mick October 8th, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    Joe pidgeonholed Montero when he announced, unneededly that Posada was the DH and Martin is catching every game.
    I guess he wants the rook to earn it. Too bad he wasn’t a RF, would he have done that to the switcher swish?

  93. Betsy October 8th, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    Blake, they may not have been comfortable with Montero under any conditions. He came up with weeks left in the season and didn’t catch once – and we had a big lead in the wildcard race. I don’t think they like him as a catcher no right now no matter what they say

  94. Yankee Trader October 8th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    Funny but we wouldn’t be having any of this conversation, yet, if the Yankees had just one timely hit in game 5. We’d be talking about facing the Rangers predominately starting lefty staff.

    It’s a shame, because with the Phillies out, I think despite the NL HFA, either of the remaining AL teams will win the WS, which would have been the Yankees if only they had advanced.

    My picks Tigers over the Rangers in 7-Verlander is dominant and the hitters-Cabrera and Martinez carve up the Ranger lefty starters.

    Brewers over the Cardinals in 6-Cardinals finally run out of gas-pitching gas.

  95. Joe from Long Island October 8th, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    Interesting that Philly paper and sports talk is blasting Charlie Manuel for not pinch hitting for palanco and others, as carpenter was matching doc.

    Sounds like both Manuel and girardi believe in going with the guys who got you there.

  96. LockDown October 8th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    The problem the yankees had were that the 3 people who didn’t hit for much of the series were lined up 4-5-6 and Joe didn’t have the courage to PH for them, nor break them up in the lineup.

    Also, two of the more consistent hitters were Posada & Gardner. The two people who Joe would easily PH for. Posada (with LHP which is rarely used) and Gardner (who is the low man on the totem pole). So PHing for them does nothing to solve the 4-5-6 hole.

    If Posada & Gardner sucked AND two of the 4-5-6 were hitting, then the series would have been won, in at the most 4 games. Because you can sub Montero for Posada & PH gardner at any time.

  97. mick October 8th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    leyland outmanaged girardi, simple as that…

  98. blake October 8th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    I’m watching the Mantle documentary on HBO to get my Yankee fix….need to detox

  99. LockDown October 8th, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    Betsy, Montero did catch a couple of games. Even the last game of the year. Still not enough though.

  100. blake October 8th, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    “leyland outmanaged girardi, simple as that…”

    eh I don’t know about that…..I still think the hitters just didn’t get it done.

  101. mick October 8th, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    What would Joe have done against Texas?
    If he DH’s Montero against their leftys, who is the BUC?
    Not Posada…Romine?
    Then who gets left off?
    Dickerson, I guess.

  102. mick October 8th, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    blake…maybe joe just overmanaged by minimizing Montero’s role

  103. LockDown October 8th, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    mick,

    Posada would have been the BUC. Posada & Montero are somehwat redundant in that they are DHs who become catchers in dire emergencies. But he’s actually using them as platoon DHs/last resort BUC.

  104. jmv October 8th, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    About the catcher situation… They start 2012 with Martin, Montero and. Cervelli at MLB. Romine at AAA. At trade deadline they have Cervelli or Romine as part of a package for a # 2. Thoughts?

  105. mick October 8th, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    LD

    not seeing Po as the BUC. romine over po, but what bothers me is joe not using montero, the guy has a hot , lethal stick….

  106. Betsy October 8th, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    LockDown, they obviously didn’t think and don’t think he’s good enough to catch in important games……and a few extra games in the middle of the season wasn’t going to change that.

  107. mick October 8th, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    …for the same reason he didn’t hit for Martin, Joe is too loyal, maybe he is tired of getting treated like dirt from AJ and Po (batting him 9th) and is gunshy, I don’t know.

  108. mick October 8th, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    he could have hit for Swisher but never has or would.

  109. Red Robin October 8th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    “leyland outmanaged girardi, simple as that…”

    Ainge, Santiago, and Don Kelly.

  110. Red Robin October 8th, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    The Tigres also hit 10 homeruns vs. Yankees 2

  111. LockDown October 8th, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    mick,

    There’s no room for Romine or else he would have been on the roster.

    I think ideally, they would have wanted Martin as C, Montero as DH/BUC2 & Romine as BUC1. Because Montero can hit lefty & righty, so there’s no need to have another DH and sit Montero against righties. But they couldn’t leave Posada off the roster.

    This is why I don’t think they should resign Posada. I don’t want to see Montero platooning to justify Posada ABs. Since I think he will be mainly DH and gradually catch in games, while catching bp sessions and getting a feel for it.

    With Detroit having RHP, Montero wasn’t going to get playing time over Posada. And he’s not ready to start a full game as catcher. He’s not all that great with digging out balls in the dirt from what I saw with him catching Garcia. He can fill in at the end & should have PH for Martin at the end of the game though. Especially when we needed a hit more than anything.

  112. Betsy October 8th, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    Posada isn’t going to be re-signed. I like the idea of Martin as the regular catcher, Montero as a BUC and DH and Romine as a back up back up at AAA.

  113. jmv October 8th, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    Po is going to receive minor league contract with ST invitation, just like Bernie

  114. LockDown October 8th, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    Betsy,

    You still need another BUC. If Montero is DHing & Martin goes down, then who catches? Or are you saying Cervelli for that role?

  115. Bret The Hitman October 8th, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    Teams that might be interested in Swisher: Oakland and Atlanta

    Gardner, Hughes and Nunez will also draw interest all over MLB.

    Montero is worth an elite starter.

    Cervelli, Warren, Phelps make nice filler.

  116. Bret The Hitman October 8th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    Trade chips:

    Montero
    Gardner
    Hughes
    Nunez
    Noesi
    Warren
    Phelps
    Cervelli

  117. Bret The Hitman October 8th, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    Trade chips:

    Montero
    Gardner
    Hughes
    Nunez
    Swisher
    Noesi
    Warren
    Phelps
    Cervelli

  118. jmv October 8th, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    With the offense not performing well in PS, I don’t see Montero going anywhere (except Halladay, Kershaw, Felix, but that ain’t happening)

  119. 108 stitches October 8th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    I’d like to see Hector Noesi, Brandon Laird, Justin Maxwell and Eduardo Nunez go to the Dominican League over the winter.
    For Noesi, he needs to build up lost innings from what he had in 2010 and come to Tampa to vie for a starting rotation spot.
    For Laird, he can get at bats and continue his work at the INF and OF corner positions.
    For Maxwell, he can make up for his lost time from injury at AAA.
    For Nunez, he can work to improve his footwork and throwing at SS and 3B.

  120. mick October 8th, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    If they bring back Posada, it will drive Montero out of town. They must go fulltime with him or they have an agenda.

  121. GreenBeret7 October 8th, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    With Nunez, the first thing they need to do is enroll him in dance classes to improve his footwork.

    Not sure when Maxwell will be able to start baseball activities again.

    Noesi will most likely pitch in the Dominican winter League to pick up his innings. Hopefully pitching for Tony Pena. Not sure if Laird is scheduled to play in Winter Leagues or not. neither Danny Collins nor Josh Norris hasn’t mentioned it so far.

  122. GreenBeret7 October 8th, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    Perhaps Chad can have another chat session in the next month and invite Collins or Norris to come on line and answer questions about the minor league plans and rumors. Not sure who’s taking on the Scranton situation as far as updating that vagabond team in 2012.

  123. MoRings42 October 8th, 2011 at 6:14 pm

    We had the pieces, it just came down to poor managing. Aside from game 3, Girardi handled the pitching well enough.. The lineup/bench is another story..

  124. Yankee Trader October 8th, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    From the Chicago Tribune interview with John Henry-

    Henry cited the team’s computer, nicknamed “Carmine,” as producing “clear statistical studies that show that the signing of free agents at a certain age, as they’ve already peaked in their career and they’re starting to decline, is counterproductive. This isn’t just about Carmine. This is about how dynamic baseball is, all sports is, and we’re on it.”

    Well, if the Cubs don’t get Epstein, maybe they can ask for permission to talk to Carmine.:)

    Does anyone know if the Yankees have have a “Carmine” or is it just Joe’s binder??

  125. RhapsodyInBlue October 8th, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    I love Jorge Posada seeing him in another uniform pains me but in my opinion bringing him back will only retard the development of Jesus Montero.

    Besides the way Arod is breaking down it’s really hard to predict how much DH time he’ll need in 2012.

  126. tomingeorgia October 8th, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    Rhapsody,
    Al will be back in strength next spring. Maybe he’ll get hurt again, but if he doesn’t I predict a big year. JM will prove himself in spring training and will have the majority of DH at bats next year, and catch a fair number, too. EOP (end of prophecies).

  127. blake October 8th, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    If Carmine says that then why did they sign Carl Crawford and John Lackey…..I’m no super computer but I could have told him that those guys best years were behind them

  128. jmv October 8th, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    Yankees don’t need Carmine. They have LoHud’s game threads

  129. tomingeorgia October 8th, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    jmv,
    Except for the lunatic fringe, LoHud is right more often than Carmine.

  130. Yankee Trader October 8th, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    Blake-

    Maybe Carmine was a mid-season acquition. :)

  131. jmv October 8th, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    Tomingeorgia,
    That’s why I refered just to the game threads, LOL

  132. GreenBeret7 October 8th, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    Posada wouldn’t “retard” Montero’s progress. Cervelli would do that. I’d love to read the Bs on here if Montero had played more in the PS and failed. He got a good amount of at bats in september and did well. He was generally put into spots where it was best to succeed, but, also got some tough pitchers to face and did pretty well. He’s wholly ready to compete and succeed in NY in 2012.

  133. tomingeorgia October 8th, 2011 at 6:29 pm

    GB7,
    Amen.

  134. blake October 8th, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    Lohud said that Lackey and Crawford both were bad signs.

  135. Yankee Trader October 8th, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    What the Yankees could use is a pitching machine capable of throwing off-speed stuff to a lefty hitter, and inside pitches to A-Rod. A machine capable of repeating a James Shields best arsenal or that of Justin Verlander!!

  136. tomingeorgia October 8th, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    YT,
    They probably have such a machine, it’s just a matter of getting the settings right, with random selection of pitches, or set it to known patterns.

  137. jmv October 8th, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    Blake,

    It’s a joke about game threads. They keep some good posters away. Am I wrong?

  138. Betsy October 8th, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    Lock Down, admittedly I don’t know. Romine isn’t ready -and even if he were, what good does it do him to sit on the bench 95% of the time. I think we’ve got to go out and find one……..

  139. tomingeorgia October 8th, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    jmv,
    The sanity of the game threads is solely reliant on the score. If we’re up a few, they go away.

  140. RhapsodyInBlue October 8th, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    GB7

    For arguments sake let’s say the Yankees give Posada another year, or even if they don’t, do you believe that as a BUC Montero will not face right handed pitching as a DH?

    Martin I assume will get the lion’s share of games behind the plate.

    My point is Posada as he did in the post season will take at bats away from Montero.

  141. tomingeorgia October 8th, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    Pitching machines:
    Lane would gain fame (and sometimes infamy) for his many transactions,[3] earning nicknames such as “Trader Frank,” “Frantic Frank,” “Trader Lane,” and “The Wheeler Dealer” for the more than 400 trades he made in his career, including 241 with the White Sox alone. In addition to dealing star players such as Norm Cash, Rocky Colavito, and Roger Maris, Lane also dispatched future Hall of Famers Enos Slaughter, Red Schoendienst, and Early Wynn. When he also tried to trade the legendary Stan Musial, Cardinals owner Gussie Busch blocked the transaction.
    Yet players were not the only people involved in Lane’s transactions – in 1960, during his tenure with the Indians, he dealt manager Joe Gordon in exchange for Detroit Tigers skipper Jimmy Dykes.

  142. tomingeorgia October 8th, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    Sorry about that. Forgot to hit the url copy button.

  143. jmv October 8th, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    Tom, Blake,
    Not a big deal. Bad joke, I guess. Let’s talk most interesting baseball topics.

  144. tomingeorgia October 8th, 2011 at 6:43 pm

    Try again.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ4L-TNaAm0

  145. blake October 8th, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    Jmv,

    Yea I know…..the game threads have always been a mess….enter at your own risk type deal

  146. GreenBeret7 October 8th, 2011 at 6:55 pm

    Rhap,

    I’d prefer that Montero gets used to the pitching staff during ST and the less strenuous part of the season than down the home stretch of the season when the team is trying to cement the highest playoff spot possible. PS teams rarely rely on raw rookie catchers down the stretch unless it’s an emergency. Catching is a big part of Montero’s immediate future. Immediate as in the next 3 or 4 years. He can already hit, but, digging pitches out of the dirt is his weakness. Catching David Robertson in the late innings can’t be easy. His best curve balls are in the dirt. It’s hard to think that there was much better hitting than what Posada provided in October. Montero will get plenty of innings in ST andduring the season. He needs to learn what the best pitches everyone has and how they break and move. September pennant races aren’t the best times to find out.

  147. blake October 8th, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    I really miss the daily routine of watching a Yankee game when the summer is over.

  148. Jerkface October 8th, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    Pickup Swisher’s option and see what teams will bite. Look at Atlanta, maybe there is a con to be had with Heyward? Trade Swisher and some nice white pitchers to Atlanta, like Warren and more.

  149. Cashman needs to go October 8th, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    Cashman is too busy rappling buildings, wearing goofy wigs to try and be cool, serving drinks and banging women other than his wife to be actually doing his job….

    he got lucky with colon, garcia and the rest of the bench….being lucky doesn’t make you good..he saw that colon was fried after the all star break and still didn’t do anything…which forced him to count on AJ Burnett in game 4 of the ALDS (and got lucky yet again)..any GM who has to count on AJ Burnett to save his A$$ and his season is way over his head in that job…

    chavez was good for about 15 games this season the rest of the time he was on the DL (BIG surprise there to no one but cashman) or sucking at bat…

    if ayala and corey wade were such good pickups why didn’t they even sniff an out in game #5 and they had to use Fatso to give up the eventual game winning run..

    a GM’s job is to make sure you have enough pieces to go to the postseason armed with a full team…that’s why leyland didn’t need to pitch verlander in game #5….and thats why sabathia was used ..because the yankees were short about 3 pitchers in that bullpen…
    say what you want about how good cashman is but he’s struck out 9 out of 10 years since getting complete autonomy (or whatever it is)..and this is with spending about 1 billion more dollars than anyone else in baseball..

  150. jmv October 8th, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    I miss games too, but hot stove is funny. The Montero/Po//Cervelli/Romine stuff is gonna keep us busy, too

  151. Jerkface October 8th, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    I’m resigning myself to the fact that the Yankees are going to sign CJ Wilson. I prefer that route than trading Jesus, but it will still sting a little. I’m almost positive they will do it though.

  152. RhapsodyInBlue October 8th, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    Cashman’s ok reading your tripe I’m thinking you’re the one that needs go somewhere else.

  153. tomingeorgia October 8th, 2011 at 7:11 pm

    Jerk,
    If Texas wins through, Wilson will stay there, saving us many millions for something we don’t need.

  154. jmv October 8th, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    Jerk, tom,

    Let’s root for Texas then

  155. Jerkface October 8th, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    I’m rooting for the Brewers though, I don’t want Josh Hamilton getting a ring :twisted:

  156. blake October 8th, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    I really dont know about Wilson…..I don’t see the Yanks getting into a bidding war for him…..he’s just not that good. If they did sign him it wouldn’t be the worst thing though at least short term…..

    Agree on checking with the Braves on Swisher……I just don’t see them trading Heyward unless they get a big time package…..I donk think Swisher and B listers gets it done……but if they coukd get a better alternative to.Swish some other place than Id trade Swish for one of their pitching prospects…..

  157. RhapsodyInBlue October 8th, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    I’m down for Texas if it keeps Wilson there.

  158. Jerkface October 8th, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    The Jays GM AA is apparently going to be doing some crazy stuff this offseason. Maybe he goes after CJ and Prince. I think he will also bid huge on Yu Darvish as they have sent a ton of people to look at him. Of course I hope the Yankees get him if he is posted as I think it’ll be for less than Matsuzaka.

    Interesting thing about Igawa from npbtracker

    Journalist Misako Hida recently did an interesting interview with Kei Igawa for the Japanese version of the Wall Street Journal. Among the insights: Igawa wants to sign with an MLB organization that will give him a chance to reach the majors, he doesn’t get recognized much when he goes out, and he realized the Yankees didn’t know him when the GM and manager asked what his best pitch at a meeting during his first year.

  159. tomingeorgia October 8th, 2011 at 7:20 pm

    Rhap,
    Just let Wilson pitch well in the game(s) he’s in. Can’t root for the Rangers.

  160. Jerkface October 8th, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    But this year I’m changing my tune a bit. For the first time, I can see him getting posted in this immediately upcoming offseason. Here’s why:

    Darvish softened his stance on playing in MLB last year. It does seem that the Japanese media has mostly shied away from directly asking him about an MLB move though.
    Last year he admitted to having contact with big-name MLB agents. Last month MLBTR confirmed that he is represented by Arn Tellem and Don Nomura.
    He’s in the middle of his fifth straight crushingly dominant season, and is obviously unchallenged by NPB competition.
    He’s bulked up from 90kg to 100kg. In Imperial that’s 198 lbs to 220 lbs.
    He’s consistently working in the upper end of his velocity range, around 150-156kmph (93-97mph) and seems to challenging hitters more. I wonder if he’s putting on a show for the scouts, since he has shown that he is perfectly capable of dominating with lower fastball velocity.
    The number of scouts present at his games continues to increase. Logic suggests that at some point this is likely to become a distraction.
    He’s got three full years to go prior to free agency. If Nippon Ham or Darvish can’t get the right deal, they can call it off and try again next year.

    http://www.npbtracker.com/

  161. Jerkface October 8th, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    Here is a start where Darvish sat 95 for an entire game this year: http://www.npbtracker.com/data.....=Get+Chart

    Something I’ve been told he can’t do.

  162. jmv October 8th, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    Jerk,
    Have you seen any video from Yu? I’m curious about him

  163. blake October 8th, 2011 at 7:28 pm

    How many days rest is Darvish used to going on?

  164. m October 8th, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    Which team is trading their elite starter?

    We didn’t need a #2 at the deadline. We didn’t need Hunter Pence. Or Fister.

    We simply needed one hit with RISP and to take back Delmond Young’s homerun off Soriano.

    We were that close to advancing, so all the woulda, coulda, shoulda’s don’t really mean much. In a long season, in a short series, there are plenty of things that could have gone differently.

    It is what it is. This team was good enough to win this year, and it will be good enough to win next year.

  165. Jerkface October 8th, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    There is lots on Youtube, he actually pitched on american TV in the WBC, and I’ve seen him pitch about a dozen times on japanese TV. Just search for him on youtube theres plenty of videos spanning his entire career.

    The reason I am so high on him is that he is far better than Matsuzaka, has a better build and what I would call tenacity or cunning, and is one of those pitchers that does stuff to win games. In the playoffs once he was injured, and he completely redid his pitching mechanics so that he could make his start without hurting himself, pretty sure he threw a CG SHO or something silly.

    Has better control than Matsuzaka, and is taller/more built. Matsuzaka had great stuff but didn’t challenge anyone. He was more looking to get a K on stuff outside the zone instead of believing in his own stuff. Even still he threw a 2 ERA season in the MLB. I think Darvish has way more potential and at worst will be a ~3 ERA guy over the life of his contract.

  166. RMS October 8th, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    I would not pick up Swisher’s option. He is a post season bust.
    Nunez in left field.
    Montero dh and buc.
    Yanks get younger with Nunez and Montero.

  167. Jerkface October 8th, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    How many days rest is Darvish used to going on?

    Prolly like any japanese pitcher they pitch once a week. No different than American college players. He would be the friday night starter.

  168. blake October 8th, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    Wonder if Francona is going to let Buck drink between innings……I kid…I kid …hey drinking would probably make Buck more entertaining

  169. Jerkface October 8th, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    I would not pick up Swisher’s option. He is a post season bust.

    Why not? He helps during the regular season and you can pick it up then trade him. They won’t let Swisher walk.

  170. m October 8th, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    You pick up Swisher’s option, but explore trade possibilities. The fact of the matter is you must replace his production, otherwise you don’t make the postseason.

    Nunez in LF, where’s Gardner?

    More of Montero. Less of Nunez.

  171. blake October 8th, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    JF,

    That’d worrisome to me…..big transition

  172. sherlockbones October 8th, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    Didn’t post in the playoffs. Betsy has a big mouth and a small brain. It’s okay for fans to complain but she’s just plain dumb. 40 and still lives at home? No wonder it’s all about her. Idiot parents created a little monster. Green Beret 7 I salute you.

  173. Pat M. October 8th, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    CJ Wilson is a very good pitcher, he’s just not 18 mil a season good…….Yanks will do a road test with him though……

  174. blake October 8th, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    Gotta pick up.Swisher option if for no other reason than to trade him…..if you can find somebody better trade him…..if you cantthen play him

  175. m October 8th, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    Francona’s on today? I guess I’ll tune in. Want to catch his pearls of wisdom before the paint dries.

  176. Jerkface October 8th, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    That’d worrisome to me…..big transition

    Didn’t really affect Nomo, Matsuzaka, or Kuroda. Even Kawakami was fine his first year. Its no different than a college pitcher coming to pro ball. And Darvish is young.

    If CJ Wilson can go from being a reliever to a starter without any transition period, I think a 24 year old phenom can handle it. He is already in excellent shape.

  177. RadioKev October 8th, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    It’s comical, but understandable, that people are that up in arms about Swisher’s postseason failures they don’t want him back. The guy is a pretty good RF.

  178. sherlockbones October 8th, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    I’m rooting for the Tigers. Tito Francona in the FOX booth. Maybe a new career after the Red Sox?

  179. RMS October 8th, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    Sorry, I meant Nunez in right field.

    Jerkface

    Why pick up a 10 million$ option and then try to trade him? Do you think Swisher would get 10 million from another team if the Yanks did not pick up his option?

  180. jmv October 8th, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    JF,
    I buy it. All in for Yu. Wilson, he won’t come cheap. If we land a #2 pitcher it’s gonna be via trade. Tough because of the overprice assigned to the Yankees

  181. Jerkface October 8th, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    Why pick up a 10 million$ option and then try to trade him? Do you think Swisher would get 10 million from another team if the Yanks did not pick up his option?

    Because a 1 year 10 million dollar contract is better for any team than a multiyear deal at probably the same price. Carl Crawford and Jayson Werth got a bazillion dollars. Swisher has OPS’d over .800 every year for the Yankees and will get more than that on the open market. A 1 year deal helps teams balance their budgets.

    And the worst case scenario is the Yankees keep Swisher, a player that has helped them get to the postseason for 3 straight years. Diminish his accomplishments however you will, but he has been invaluable to the Yankees for playing almost every day and posting average defense in RF while being one of their better pitch takers/damage dealers.

    He has his troubles, but 2010 swisher was a beast with RISP and hit for a nice average and 2011 Swisher overcame a depressing start to the season to finish out the year with his average numbers. He is a good player. This is Chip syndrome where people dont understand the value they are trying to give away for free

  182. jmv October 8th, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    M, JF,

    Agree on Swisher. You keep him, then explore

  183. GreenBeret7 October 8th, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    Wilson is a $13-$14 mil a year pitcher in baseball dollars this year, but, if Texas, Boston and Detroit get involved, he’s going to be worth $17-$18 mil a year for 5 years.

  184. statforthat October 8th, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    @bayareanyy

    During the Wild-Card era, the team with the better record has won in the first round 55% of the time and has won the LCS and World Series 52% of the time.

    So, the fact that higher seeds don’t win the as much as in the NFL, and NBA is more a function of the nature of baseball rather than the series being the best-of-5 or best-of-7.

    http://theresastatforthat.blog.....eally.html

  185. Bayareanyy October 9th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    Statforthat,

    Thanks for the data and link.

    I would agree that the nature of baseball has something to do with it. Baseball is played in 3 or 4 game series during the regular season. I would argue that the playoffs should be in a 3-1-1 format or 4-1 format to keep the baseball series format consistent at least in the first round.

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