Jeter finishes in a familiar spot

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 09, 2011 Print This Post | Email This Post

One thing to know about that first hour or so after the Yankees were eliminated: Derek Jeter spoke to a large group of reporters, went back to the players-only part of the clubhouse, then came back out to speak again. He might not say much, but when The Captain speaks, it carries weight, and everyone listens.

If that were ever going to change, this might have been the year.

Jeter spent the first half of this season repeating last year’s production, and although he remained in the leadoff spot, he was quickly becoming a more and more marginal piece of the offense. He was still Derek Jeter — still The Captain — but he was become more an elder statesman than a key piece of the puzzle.

Then everything changed.

Jeter’s second half: .327/.383/.428
Jeter’s career: .313/.383/.449

“He was the player we’re used to seeing,” Brian Cashman said.

When Jeter went on the disabled list in mid-June, he seemed all but finished. He was still a capable big league player, but he was nowhere close to the Derek Jeter. It was a matter of time before his status was similarly marginalized.

By the end of the season, he was the same as ever. He was The Captain in every way.

“You’re never satisfied,” Jeter said. “I’m not satisfied. I’m happy with some of the adjustments that I was able to make, but I wouldn’t say satisfied.”

Associated Press photo

200 Responses to “Jeter finishes in a familiar spot”

pat October 9th, 2011 at 9:10 am
Joel Sherman’s 2012 Yankee line-up…….

Jeter
Granderson
Beltran
Cano
A-Rod
Teixeira
Montero
Martin
Gardner
Wang IS Taiwan October 9th, 2011 at 9:14 am
I’m just happy to NOT see Swish in there at all, and Tex batting 6th.

But doesn’t Beltran get injured a lot?
blake October 9th, 2011 at 9:14 am
Jeter adjusted to his new skill set…..it just took a little time. Great players often figure it out if given a chance.

Shermans lineup is fine if they are getting Beltran short term and they can find worthwhile value for Swisher……I certainly wouldn’t decline his option and just let him go.

MTU,

Yes….that’s why I would really explore if getting Danks is possible. You coukd build an attractive package without including any of the top 5 guys.
Villa Nova-Ya October 9th, 2011 at 9:16 am
pat -

Did he have a suggestion for who would play RF while Beltran is on the DL?

I guess Swisher is the fall guy for the ALDS and the end of the 2011 season….
Wang IS Taiwan October 9th, 2011 at 9:17 am
Beltran’s already 34, so if we could give him 2 years, then fine.
Villa Nova-Ya October 9th, 2011 at 9:18 am
I do believe there will be a lineup shuffle for 2012, though. While Girardi doesn’t seem to like to make in-season adjustments, he has shown he will try new things in the spring.
Wang IS Taiwan October 9th, 2011 at 9:19 am
Beltrán’s hitting statistics since joining the Giants: 5 HR, 4 3B, 5 2B, with a total of 39 hits and a .319 BA and 14 RBI.
pat October 9th, 2011 at 9:19 am
Beltran had micro fracture knee surgery.

Could the smaller right field and adding him to the DH rotation keep him healthier?
blake October 9th, 2011 at 9:20 am
Beltran does get hurt a lot…..but he’s also very good against RHP…..that’s his strong side unlike Tex and Swisher. He would be a good addition if he could stay healthy…..so long as its short term ans its a seat warmer for someone long term like Mr. Kemp.
RadioKev October 9th, 2011 at 9:21 am
I wasn’t surprised at all that Jeter turned it around. That’s what has made Jeter great, his work ethic and his drive to always imrpove. He’s the most consistent player of his generation.

I also remember Sam’s prediction, that if anyone could bounce back from a season like 2010 it’s Jeter.
Villa Nova-Ya October 9th, 2011 at 9:23 am
pat -

If they don’t trade Montero, there is less room in the DH merry-go-round.
RadioKev October 9th, 2011 at 9:23 am
blake October 9th, 2011 at 9:20 am
Beltran does get hurt a lot…..but he’s also very good against RHP…..that’s his strong side unlike Tex and Swisher. He would be a good addition if he could stay healthy…..so long as its short term ans its a seat warmer for someone long term like Mr. Kemp.
———

I’d bet it’s Kemp or Swisher. I see Beltran going to the highest bidder, but I don’t see the Yankees bidding high on him.
pat October 9th, 2011 at 9:24 am
“Did he have a suggestion for who would play RF while Beltran is on the DL? ”

Well he didn’t put it like that but…… Andrew Jones or Nunez are who thinks might be backing up OF. Said Jones loved NY, has gotten tight with Jeter and spoke of getting into better shape this off season. Also said Nunez will be counted on to sub in the OF as well IF next year.
RadioKev October 9th, 2011 at 9:26 am
Do we think the Yankees would resign Jones? I think they would. You can’t ask for a whole lot more from a bench player.
Yankee Trader October 9th, 2011 at 9:28 am
Probably has been mentioned, but Sherman sees Boras client, Beltran, getting 3 years 42M.
LockDown October 9th, 2011 at 9:28 am
I hope we resign Jones. He did everything we asked him to. I wouldn’t mind Chavez coming back, if he doesn’t retire. I think we had one of the best benches.
blake October 9th, 2011 at 9:29 am
Villa,

Swish is a great value for what he makes……but I think its become a trend how he performs in October…..he changes his approach and doesn’t seem to be able to stay within himself…..that said he’s a good player and you only make a change if you can find someone better.

If you could sign Beltran to a short term deal (2 years or less) and then trade Swisher for something of value then I see that as a net gain. He’s a better overall player than Swisher….and much better vs RHP……the only risk is his health…..but you’re really looking g for him to be a stop gap anyway.
pat October 9th, 2011 at 9:30 am
“Beltran was the lone switch-hitter this year (minimum 100 plate appearances as both a lefty and righty) to produce a .900 OPS from both sides of the plate.”

Here’s the link to the Sherman rebuild the Yankees plan…..
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....z1aI6bxaFI
Wang IS Taiwan October 9th, 2011 at 9:31 am
Sherman’s article:

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....5nj76KJfkO

The big prob with Beltran contract-wise is that Boras is his agent.

Was also surprised to read that only one day separates Jones and Beltran. Wow — Jones looks like he’s 38/39.
Yankee Trader October 9th, 2011 at 9:31 am
In the same article about Andruw Jones.

Andruw Jones, who they saw as an asset on the field as a lefty masher and in the clubhouse, became particularly tight with Derek Jeter. Jones liked being a Yankee, but he sounded as if he might get his knees cleaned up, lose some weight and make a run at being a full-time player again.

Jones is still just 34, one day older than Beltran
blake October 9th, 2011 at 9:32 am
“I’d bet it’s Kemp or Swisher. I see Beltran going to the highest bidder, but I don’t see the Yankees bidding high on him.”

Its hard to know where the Dodgers are right now and what their plan is…..my guess is they start feeling Kemp out this winter on an extension and they try to get an idea if he’s going to test the market. If he is set on testing the market then maybe they’ll trade him but with the state if that organization right now they need butts in the seats so I don’t know.
Wang IS Taiwan October 9th, 2011 at 9:32 am
pat, Thanks for the original mention of the article. Interesting read.
Villa Nova-Ya October 9th, 2011 at 9:33 am
pat -

That’s pretty interesting. You could tell mid-season that there was a change in Jones. He looked like he slimmed down a bit, and also more determined. He went from a player I couldn’t wait for them to get rid of to a guy I looked forward to seeing at the plate.

I would think Nunez might need to work in the off-season somewhere to get more experience in the outfield. But he also needs some fine-tuning in the infield. Super-sub Nunie.

I’m not sold on Beltran because of his physical issues that seem to crop up every year, though. Swisher stays healthy and is productive in the regular season.
pat October 9th, 2011 at 9:34 am
“I guess Swisher is the fall guy for the ALDS ”

Not as long as Alex is around but Swish is the part they could interchange the easiest though.
Wang IS Taiwan October 9th, 2011 at 9:35 am
Villa Nova-Ya

I think Jones just started feeling more “at home”. I noticed during games the camera would show him chatting with Jeter a lot in the dugout — more in the second half of the season. With that smile, I’ll bet Jones has a sense of humor to match Jete’s.
RadioKev October 9th, 2011 at 9:35 am
Do you think the Yanks can pick up Chien Ming Wang? It appears he was only signed with the Nats through this year. Are the bridges burned?
MTU October 9th, 2011 at 9:37 am
Blake-

There is no telling if guys like Kemp, Hamels, etc. ever make it to the open market, or that they would sign with us.

I sure hope the Yankee have multiple targets for OF or pitching upgrades when the time comes.

That seems necessary. As we have seen there are no guarantees when it comes to acquiring players.
LockDown October 9th, 2011 at 9:37 am
Gotta agree with blake. There are 2 steps to the goal of the WS ring: getting to the playoffs & winning post season games. Swisher is great in the regular season, but then he’s MIA. I believe the yankees can get into the playoffs w/o swisher, and if they could enhance their chances in the post with another RF then it’s worth a shot.
RadioKev October 9th, 2011 at 9:39 am
pat October 9th, 2011 at 9:34 am
“I guess Swisher is the fall guy for the ALDS ”

Not as long as Alex is around but Swish is the part they could interchange the easiest though.

———

Am I misremembering this, didn’t Swisher have a ninth inning home run? I get that his approach was poor (it was), but I think his failures are greatly exaggerated.

We got less from Swisher, but more from Posada and Gardner – doesn’t that kind of equal out? Swisher has the upside to be a big factor, but it’s not like the team relies on the guy. Look to A-Rod and Tex for our losses.
Wang IS Taiwan October 9th, 2011 at 9:41 am
RadioKev,

Wang has always been positive about the Yanks in his statements over here. Never read anything negative about them not re-signing him after his injury. He’s a good guy first of all, and second, he’s v. private.

I love Wang, but think he’ll do better in the NL.
RadioKev October 9th, 2011 at 9:44 am
Wang IS Taiwan,

I just wish Wang had a happy ending with the team. I didn’t see any of his starts, but his numbers last season weren’t bad for a first go around.
Yankee Trader October 9th, 2011 at 9:44 am
The Yankees could use another lefty starter.

I don’t see Wang being anything but a back of the rotation starter.

One lefty that was a starter, until turned reliever, plays on the Cubs and held lefties to a .206 BA, gave up one homer in 75.2 innings, WHIP 1.10, ERA 2.26 is 6’7″ 220 lb, 29 yo, Sean Marshall.

Cubs could use starting pitching. Would a few AAA pitchers not named Betances or Banuelos get it done?
Wang IS Taiwan October 9th, 2011 at 9:44 am
Swish in the post-season:

.211 .250 .368 .618

4/19, 1 RBI (his HR).

I looked up his post-season avg during the playoffs, and it was ~.169?
MTU October 9th, 2011 at 9:46 am
This might be next year’s rotation:

CC
Nova
Garcia
Hughes
Burnett

With Noesi/Warren as backups.

The only thing the Yankees should look for is a bona fide # 2 starter.

(I do not see Wilson as that guy).

I would think Cashman would explore the trade market as well.

No move is better than a bad move.
LockDown October 9th, 2011 at 9:46 am
RadioKev October 9th, 2011 at 9:39 am

Am I misremembering this, didn’t Swisher have a ninth inning home run? I get that his approach was poor (it was), but I think his failures are greatly exaggerated.
—-

tbh when he hit that 9th inning home run, I was NOT surprised at all & I even smirked.

The yankees were down 5-1 in the 9th with the clown closing. Even Girardi thought the game was over at that point, am I’m pretty sure Swisher did too.

It’s not that Swisher can never get a hit, the issue is he gets most of his hits when there’s no pressure, when the run differential is 3+. I kept saying that throughout the entire series. If the score was 2-1 in the 9th, Swisher probably would have popped up that same pitch.

Now some may say that the home run started a comeback. But that’s not the point. The point it he can’t get clutch hits. Hitting a homerun, in the 9th, being down by 4, with the clown who hasn’t lost a save, doesn’t count as being clutch.
Villa Nova-Ya October 9th, 2011 at 9:46 am
Radio Kev -

He did get a ninth inning HR. Was it in Game 2?
Wang IS Taiwan October 9th, 2011 at 9:48 am
RadioKev,

I watched a couple of his games (he is beloved here and they replay his games at least 4X)). His speed is still not there, but his control and strength looked like they were steadily improving. I’m hoping he has a good 2012. Not sure who is going to sign him, though. The Nats pitching coach raves about him — loves his attitude and hard work, but it sounds like they already have enough pitching.

Got respect his comeback. I mean, who really comes back after shoulder surgery that serious? Tough to do.
Wang IS Taiwan October 9th, 2011 at 9:49 am
Swish is extremely irritating in the post-season because he’s swinging for the fences with every at bat.
Villa Nova-Ya October 9th, 2011 at 9:50 am
I just finished reading Sherman’s article. I thought it was good. I have such a love/hate relationship with Sherman’s work. He can be so thoughtful and analytical, and the he can go 180 degrees in the opposite direction. Or is that me?

One thing for sure that would help is if Teixeira can get back to at least 2009 hitting form.

And I knew Melky was good for something.
Yankee Trader October 9th, 2011 at 9:51 am
I believe the yankees can get into the playoffs w/o swisher.

Look to A-Rod and Tex for our losses.
—————————————–

Lockdown and RadioKev-

I believe the Yankees can get to the playoffs without A-Rod. They seemed to play better when he was out of the line-up with knee and thumb issues. I realize the only way A-Rod will not be on the 25man roster is if he’s on the DL.
RadioKev October 9th, 2011 at 9:54 am
I believe the Yankees can get to the playoffs without A-Rod. They seemed to play better when he was out of the line-up with knee and thumb issues. I realize the only way A-Rod will not be on the 25man roster is if he’s on the DL.
———-

Can they win in the playoffs without A-Rod? They haven’t done it during his tenure with the team.
Villa Nova-Ya October 9th, 2011 at 9:55 am
pat -

I guess that’s really the bottom line. Of all the pieces in the lineup, Swisher is the only one that is movable.

The article seemed to say, though, that Jones may be getting himself in shape to try for a full-time job somewhere, if I read it correctly.
Phranchise October 9th, 2011 at 9:55 am
Swisher tried to do too much in the postseason. But why do we assume he will never perform? Delmon Young wasn’t exactly carry the Twins passed us for a few years? He had a great series. Swisher isn’t 1-5 hitter in this offense and should have been batting 7th or 8th in this series anyway. 25+ hrs 100+ walks plus 90 rbi 90 runs. That’s good production for a guy who is out there every day and stays healthy.

So why Beltran? Maybe a couple key hits during a season??? Maybe in the playoffs if he is healthy and around to actually play? I’d take a full season of Swisher rather than 50 games of Beltran and have Nunez playing RF for a chunk of next season. We didn’t lose because of Swisher. Not enough key hits. And you can put that squarely on Jeter as well. He had the big double for sure, but otherwise he was one of the biggest culprits for leaving men on base during the season. He isn’t a leadoff hitter anymore. Girardi made a huge mistake by not changing the lineup. this about Leyland playing situations with Kelly and Sanchez!!!!!! Both guys were big contribuors to winning games 3 and 5. We stuck with the same guys and left one of our hottest hitters with the best speed sit there batting ninth !
Wang IS Taiwan October 9th, 2011 at 9:56 am
Villa Nova-Ya,

I liked Sherman’s piece, too. Maybe he’s just a moody guy? I think his analysis–for the most part–is interesting. But I don’t always agree with it.
LockDown October 9th, 2011 at 9:56 am
Yankee Trader October 9th, 2011 at 9:51 am

I believe the yankees can get into the playoffs w/o swisher.

Look to A-Rod and Tex for our losses.
—————————————–

Lockdown and RadioKev-

I believe the Yankees can get to the playoffs without A-Rod. They seemed to play better when he was out of the line-up with knee and thumb issues. I realize the only way A-Rod will not be on the 25man roster is if he’s on the DL.

——–

YT,

Not only do I agree with you about A-Rod, I am one of those who felt Girardi shouldn’t played Chavez (or even Nunez, tho bad defense) in A-rod’s place. That & moving Posada up in the lineup, may have been the 2 moves to help compensate for the lack of swisher & Teix.

The problem is that girardi won’t make this kind of move. He rather watch the ship sink.
pat October 9th, 2011 at 9:58 am
RadioKev

You can look to whoever you want.

I don’t need to blame someone or find a scapegoat.

They each had ~ 4 AB each game. Unless each was a good AB, they each could have done more.

Team failure to me.
Wang IS Taiwan October 9th, 2011 at 9:59 am
Girardi made a huge mistake by not changing the lineup

~~~~~~~~~~

He’s simply incapable of shaking things up — even when it’s do or die. I think he’s much too concerned about what his players will think. Probably never a good idea to hire someone who used to be a teammate to manage those same guys.
Phranchise October 9th, 2011 at 9:59 am
Want a simple fix to the offense????? And it will never happen.

It’s not that this team is necessarily unflexable, it’s that the captain will be anchored at SS forever and won’t relinquish batting 1st or 2nd which kills you. As much as you want to say the Yankees played well with Arod out, they played just as well with Jeter out and Gardner/Nunez slashing the ball and speed.

Let Swisher go, Jeter plays RF and sign Reyes.

Reyes
Granderson
Tex
Cano
Arod
Montero
Martin
Jeter
Gardner
Yankee Trader October 9th, 2011 at 10:00 am
MTU-

I don’t see CJ Wilson as a #2 either. You like Danks, another lefty, but he hasn’t pitched well either to be a #2.

Lefties such as Ricky Romero, David Price, Klayton Kershaw won’t be made available.

Gio Gonzalez? Cost too much?
RadioKev October 9th, 2011 at 10:00 am
Team failure to me.
——-

Did our bullpen fail too?
pat October 9th, 2011 at 10:01 am
You play Chavez instead of Alex and Chavez goes 0 for 4, Girardi loses his job.

You might be willing to gamble on Girardi’s job but would you have been willing to bet your own job on ithat move?
Bring in the Goose October 9th, 2011 at 10:01 am
Only issue I see with Beltran is durability.

The guy only plays hard when he’s in a walk year.

He will also clog up much needed DH at bats from Arod, Montero, etc.

He has a Glass Jaw.
Phranchise October 9th, 2011 at 10:01 am
Whenever guys write books usually it kills that whole trust issue with players. I feel as though Sherman is a waste of time as an “insider” after he wrote the book. He is always late on the news for the team he has to cover and has little insights. An article that is simply an observer like this one commenting on the team, I find him to be much better.
Wang IS Taiwan October 9th, 2011 at 10:03 am
Reyes is either dumb or just doesn’t pay attn when he’s playing. He made so many block-headed moves on the bases/on the field.

Plus, he’s constantly injured. What is he going to be like as he’s aging?

No thanks to Reyes.
Yankee Trader October 9th, 2011 at 10:05 am
Phranchise-

Reyes, when healthy is great.

I thought about that too. Even if Jeter agreed to the move, you now have two players in corner outfield positions, usually reserved for power hitters. Jeter-6 homers and Gardner 7 homers.
Phranchise October 9th, 2011 at 10:07 am
I am not a big Reyes fan, but then again you could have had the same comments (minus the durability) about Cano two years ago. You put Gardner and Reyes in the same lineup 50+ steals from each, that will create a lot of easy runs and lots of headaches. And gets away from the constant dependency of homers. Plus better defense at SS. Just saying, I wouldn’t sign him for the money or anything, but there is flexability if you want to be bold. But I really think the offense is ok for next year as long as Montero gets at bats, Nunez plays some and they get a fresh set of bench bats, not the Andruw Jones HR or nothing guys, a guy that can foul off pitches and hit for average.
Phranchise October 9th, 2011 at 10:09 am
True but you just got beat by and OF of Kelly, Ordonez, Young and AJax. You have a CF, 1B, 2B and 3B all potentially 30+ homers. Keep in mind when everyone wants to go back to the good old Yankees lineups for consistency, they didn’t have too many 30+ homer guys.
Phranchise October 9th, 2011 at 10:11 am
Plus, you go from Posada at DH to Montero who has 25+ homer potential next year as well.
pat October 9th, 2011 at 10:11 am
“Did our bullpen fail too?”

Overall played well but Soriano HR to Young was a game winner for Tigers.
Yankee Trader October 9th, 2011 at 10:12 am
Phranchise-

While I don’t see that happening [Reyes], if it did, Gardner would probably be made available for trade.
LockDown October 9th, 2011 at 10:14 am
Phranchise October 9th, 2011 at 9:59 am

Want a simple fix to the offense????? And it will never happen.

It’s not that this team is necessarily unflexable, it’s that the captain will be anchored at SS forever and won’t relinquish batting 1st or 2nd which kills you. As much as you want to say the Yankees played well with Arod out, they played just as well with Jeter out and Gardner/Nunez slashing the ball and speed.

—–

Jeter played well since coming back so I really don’t have much issues here. BUT the most exciting the team was to watch was when when Jeter was out.

The Nunez9/Gardner1/Grandy2 was explosive and exciting to watch. Double steals, manufacturing runs. Even ESPN stopped calling them old for the first time all year, with Valentine oohing & aaahing over the running game. It was the first time I was able to listen to ESPN w/o cringing.

Gardner/Grandy also have very good chemistry. Maybe because of Jeter’s aggressive hitting style. But seemed to steal alot more & was more aggressive when hitting before Grandy. idk

The thing is as long as Jeter is on the team, he will bat at the top of the lineup. There’s not much you can do. But as long as he’s hitting, it’ll be fine.
RadioKev October 9th, 2011 at 10:15 am
pat October 9th, 2011 at 10:11 am
“Did our bullpen fail too?”

Overall played well but Soriano HR to Young was a game winner for Tigers.
—————-

Sure, it was a game winner. Didn’t we face a worn out Valverde in the 9th? His fastball was down about 4MPH.

My point is, it’s nice to say it’s a team loss because baseball is a team sport, but there are reasons why we lost. The bull pen wasn’t one of them. The starting pitching actually gave us usable outings. The offense didn’t come through in the spots it needed to.

A-Rod, Teixiera, Swisher, and Martin were the underachievers in the line up. We got decent to great performances from Jeter, Granderson, Cano, Posada and Gardner. It’s realistic that A-Rod and Tex take the heat, as our line up was designed for them to produce.
Phranchise October 9th, 2011 at 10:18 am
I actually don’t think that would be the case (again not expecting this to happen) given that no matter what free agents are brought in you need to control salaries and Cashman at least has payroll flexability if he holds onto Gardner/Montero/Hughes/Nova/Joba/Robertson/Cano/Granderso/Martin and possibly Swisher. All those guys are short term controlable contracts which offset CC, AJ, Tex, Jeter and Arod. He doesn’t want to get into a Giambi situation where you also have Jeter, Arod, Mariano, Posada, Sheffield, etc with lots of longer deals. There is position flexability which they may be short on, but payroll flexability is pretty good when you get away with Colon and Garcia this year and allow the minor league guys develop. How much $ wise was Nova worth to them this year in comparison to what he was paid?
Yankee Trader October 9th, 2011 at 10:20 am
If Gardner could be more consistent, bunt better and get on base more [.345 OBA]. he’d be an ideal lead off hitter.

Any guesses which regular led the team in OBA?
pat October 9th, 2011 at 10:21 am
RadioKev

Got to run (kids games) but go look at the RISP for the guys who you said played great.

Sherman’s article said Jeter was 0 for something? 8? 9? with RISP. One hit could have been a difference. Too many moving parts and pieces and ifs and buts to put it on 1 or 2 guys in my opinion.

Not saying I’m right but that’s how I feel.
Joe from Long Island October 9th, 2011 at 10:21 am
Hi-

That series was on the hitters. Fister was beatable, and Benoit was on the ropes.

I like Swish, but if you can upgrade to a elite player you do it. Carlos Beltran us no longer that kind of player. Unless you can get a Jason Heyward, I’d wait a year for Kemp’s FA. Unless, the dodgers want to deal kemp now and get something.
Red Robin October 9th, 2011 at 10:22 am
I hope last night’s TV ratings for the game totally tanked.
G. Love October 9th, 2011 at 10:22 am
The problem with waiting for Swisher to beat his post season demons is we’re losing series due to his at bats and Girardi’s handling of him. Girardi has admittedly taken the “he’s due” approach to Swisher when anyone with a modicum of intelligence can see that Swisher plays and hits differently in the post season.

Winning in the regular season is important but having guys who can have good at bats in the post season is what’s missing here. Jorge, Cano, Granderson and Jeter and Gardner were the only one’s with real quality at bats in that series.

Basically, the game became if Cano and Grandy didn’t do something with their at bats, it was as if we had 3 pitchers coming up to his in Arod, Tex and Swisher.

Arod and Tex we’re stuck with. Their contracts are unmovable. Could the Yankees back Tex into a corner and tell him “we don’t want you anymore and we’re going to sign Pujols or Prince or trade for Votto”. Sure. They could do that and he probably would waive his NTC if he were told he was the DH against LHP and backup 1b.

That said, that kind of move only happens if George were alive and he’s not so it won’t happen.

The only places the Yankees have the flexibility to change is RF and LF basically. Gardner’s cheap, fast and saves runs like a good late inning reliever.

Swisher is streaky and a complete post season bust.

I think they pick up Swisher’s option and then dangle him this off season. They’ll probably check in w/the Dodgers and see if he can be part of the package that can bring Kemp to NY. I don’t think the Dodgers will do it but you never know.

The fact is to get anything really good in a Swisher trade will require the Yankees to pony up a top prospect with Swisher to get it.

Would SF put Cain on the market for Swisher or Gardner and some top young studs? They might.

You bring this same exact team back next year minus Jorge and I see the same result happening offensively when the pressure is on. Swisher is a joke in the post season. I only see Tex getting worse, not better. Arod is falling apart physically in front of our eyes. We don’t have to worry about him breaking Bonds’ record anymore in my opinion.

What I’d do this off season is get Montero a 1b mitt and a defensive tutor. I think if Tex is what I think he is, he’ll be a part time player here in a few years. With Girardi as manager I don’t see Montero being our starting C ever so he better learn another position.

What we’re going to find out this off season is how much power Girardi has on the Yankees. If Montero gets dealt (and he very well could) you know Girardi is more important to the Yankees than the players. Which would be one of the worst things to learn about this team in a very long time.

Swisher needs to go. If not this off season then in a mid season deal next year. They cannot walk into another post season series with Tex, Arod and Swisher as everyday regulars.

I said it before Torre benched the likes of Tino and Boggs in order to play Hayes and Fielder in post season games. Girardi can’t even fathom that kind of move. If he is frozen and unable to deviate from the plan, the GM needs to take his toys/crutches away from him to change the result.
Red Robin October 9th, 2011 at 10:24 am
So how did Ainge, Santiago, and Don Kelly fare last night anyway ?
Giuseppe Franco October 9th, 2011 at 10:27 am
The Yanks won the WS two years ago with Swisher, A-Rod, and Teixeira as everyday regulars.
G. Love October 9th, 2011 at 10:31 am
The Yankees won the WS 2 years with Arod playing like the old Arod. Tex and Swisher had minimal contributions on 2009 post season. Arod, Matsui and Damon had a lot more to do with those wins offensively than Tex and Swisher did.

Tex is declining in front of our eyes. If you can’t admit that you’re not watching. He hit 220 something against RHP. That kind of production gets you replaced. He’s been rapidly declining in the past 3 years.

Swisher is a post season/high pressure mess. Nice player in the regular season when can do what he’s capable of, but you cannot rely on him to win games. He’s a contributor. With guys like Arod and Tex declining like they are the Yankees need to pick up slack in other positions. Swisher’s time has come and gone here. He may be back with his option picked up but it won’t be for long. The Yankees know this.
RadioKev October 9th, 2011 at 10:32 am
What I’d do this off season is get Montero a 1b mitt and a defensive tutor. I think if Tex is what I think he is, he’ll be a part time player here in a few years. With Girardi as manager I don’t see Montero being our starting C ever so he better learn another position.
————–

What makes you say that about Tex? From 2004 – 2009 his average was above .280. He’ll be 32 next season, and he’s signed until he’s 37. There aren’t many better defensive first basemen either.

Couldn’t he turn it around again and be successful through the remainder of his contract? It doesn’t seem crazy to me. It seems less likely he’ll continue down this path, in fact.
Yankee Trader October 9th, 2011 at 10:32 am
Gotta go. BTW, Swisher led all Yankee regulars with an OBA of .374.
joeman October 9th, 2011 at 10:33 am
my lineup also but wouldn’t mind seeing Gardner & in a package for a SP
joeman October 9th, 2011 at 10:35 am
# Yankee Trader October 9th, 2011 at 10:32 am

Gotta go. BTW, Swisher led all Yankee regulars with an OBA of .374.
————————
never about reg season for the Yankees need production in the playoffs
Villa Nova-Ya October 9th, 2011 at 10:36 am
The only guys who can “turn it around” are guys who are not Yankees, but who some Yankees fans would like and think they can get cheap because they had a bad season, but once the Yankees get them they’ll return to form. It is impossible for guys currently on the Yankees to “turn it around.”
RadioKev October 9th, 2011 at 10:39 am
# Yankee Trader October 9th, 2011 at 10:32 am

Gotta go. BTW, Swisher led all Yankee regulars with an OBA of .374.
————————
never about reg season for the Yankees need production in the playoffs

———-

What’s your playoff barometer for FAs telling you?

Come on. This playoff stuff with Swisher is nonsense. I get that Carlos Beltran is the greatest playoff player in history, but he’s less of a viable option (age, cost, health) than Swisher. What other playoff veterans can this team acquire, or would want to acquire?

Is their a stat sheet for future playoff performance? If you create one, you’ll be a millionaire in moments.
LockDown October 9th, 2011 at 10:40 am
I recall that game in the season where there was a man on 3rd with less than 2 outs. The shift was on, nobody covered 3rd and all Teix had to do was slap it to 3rd to score the run. He was unable to do it.

I would think that there should be a sense of urgency to correct his swing. I love how Grandy worked on his & in a week was a much better hitter (at the end of last year). Teix really needs to work on it. The Yankees are paying him enough money. And I have faith that he can do this.

Now if 2012 comes & goes & it’s the same issue, then the yankees have a problem. He has great defense, but he’s being paid to hit as well.
G. Love October 9th, 2011 at 10:40 am
RadioKev,

You’re assuming that Tex’s swing from the left side improves. All we’ve seen is it get worse since he’s been here. Fixing your swing at 32? I’m not 100% confident that can happen. It’s possible since Long is good at this, but I can’t count on it.

What I can count on based on what we’ve seen the past few years is Tex and Swisher crush LHP and back of the rotation filler. Outside of that they are handicapped against good RHP.

The whole premise in believing in Tex at this point is that he will come back next year with an entirely different swing and that swing will be effective from the get go. It could easily go he comes back next year with an entirely different swing, struggles with the adjustments, watches his stats/performance get worse and then goes back to the old mechanics which clearly only work from the right side.

The smart thing the Yankees can do is get Montero a 1b mitt as insurance over Tex’s decline. If Montero can play the position you can use Tex as a late inning replacement defensively if Montero’s bat proves to be more potent against RHP than Tex’s.

This team cannot go through another season with a 220 hitting 1b in the 3-4-5 spot vs. RHP. The next logical move is either to the bench or the bottom of the lineup with that kind of production.

I’d like to think he can pull a Grandy, but I can’t count on it.
Joe from Long Island October 9th, 2011 at 10:40 am
GLove, agreed to pick up Swisher’s option, then shop him around, I think you’d be surprised by what you can get for a SH RF/1B with a high OBP and power, who’s decent in the field and who is still rel. young. But, I’d look to do it only for a truly elite talent. We dont need another journeyman ballplayer.

I’m more optimistic than you about Tex. Why can’t he improve his lefty swing? He himself said – albeit too late – that he hurt himself by becoming pull happy from that side. The first step is recognizing that there’s a problem.

They are transitioining to a team featuring granderson, cano, and montero. Alex will play more if a supporting role than featured bat – Not too shabby.
Phranchise October 9th, 2011 at 10:43 am
What you sign Swisher, eat a piece of his salary to trade him for a rental to what team exactly? A playoff team could use him sure, but what useable piece would they give you? Small market team he would be blocking someone and they would never offer him arbitration because they would be stuck with him for $10+ a year if he picked it up, so no draft pick. The most you could ever hope to get is a relief pitcher. Just think about what we picked him up for Jeff MArquez???
RadioKev October 9th, 2011 at 10:44 am
G. Love October 9th, 2011 at 10:40 am
RadioKev,

You’re assuming that Tex’s swing from the left side improves. All we’ve seen is it get worse since he’s been here. Fixing your swing at 32? I’m not 100% confident that can happen. It’s possible since Long is good at this, but I can’t count on it.
———-

That is my assumption when I say he can turn it around, yes.

The problem with Teixiera is a mechanical failure, not a talent failure. His decline has nothing to do with his ability, like most players’ “declines.” It’s not the same. Teixiera has a fixable problem. He’s got a good work ethic, and he’s got good coaches around him.

He’s also a far better defensive 1B than I imagine Montero could be – but hey, you never know.

Perhaps I’m being optimistic, but perhaps you’re being cynical.
Giuseppe Franco October 9th, 2011 at 10:45 am
Joeman (and Bret) has been trying to trade Gardner and Montero for three years and it hasn’t happened yet.

The front office obviously feels differently about their future than some of the fans who are willing to get rid of them for the sake of getting rid of them.
Giuseppe Franco October 9th, 2011 at 10:52 am
# RadioKev October 9th, 2011 at 10:44 a

Perhaps I’m being optimistic, but perhaps you’re being cynical.

———

I’m with you on being more optimistic.

Given the ALDS bitter pill is still fresh our minds there are always way too many reactionary and radical moves to blow up the team.

Although their finish was disappointing, it wasn’t nearly as bad as the Phillies or Red Sox given all the hype that surrounded them.

Making headline moves didn’t help them get to the promised land.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 10:56 am
“….can find a way to rotate Beltran, Swisher and Brett Gardner around Curtis Granderson while still getting enough DH at-bats to use Montero, who the Yankees believe is ready now to be an offensive difference maker.”

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....z1aIQs8yLM

It’s unfortunate that “RIGHT NOW” did not apply Thursday night.

I wouldn’t mind adding Beltran, although I’m wary of the years it would take and of his injury history.
JM October 9th, 2011 at 10:57 am
Beltran is going to want at least 3 years….I’d pass unless he would settle for two years….I also doubt he’d stay healthy more than half the time.
JK October 9th, 2011 at 10:57 am
What about a deal of Swish & a prospect to LA for Ethier? Both are free agents next year.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 10:59 am
….need to to add I would NOT want to see Beltran taking away ABs vs. RHP from Montero. So, Beltran would have to be in the OF when Montero DH’d. He could DH when Montero catches.

I don’t want to see an either/or that tied their hands (to go with their thinking) in the playoffs with Posada/Montero vs. RHP.
Villa Nova-Ya October 9th, 2011 at 11:00 am
GF –

Exactly.

During last night’s broadcast, it sure sounded the Terry Francona would have like it if Boston held onto Victor Martinez, in my opinion. I think many of us weren’t so sure that Crawford and Gonzalez were that much of an upgrade over Beltre and Martinez, if at all. And who knew that Martinez was a good clubhouse guy?
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 11:00 am
JM, that’s the problem.
G. Love October 9th, 2011 at 11:00 am
Joe from LI,

I think they can trade Swisher for something good. I think they are going to openly explore that for two reasons; 1 – it’s what they should do 2- if they can’t do it, it let’s Swisher know the party is almost over.

I’m not against Swisher returning per se, but there are only a few spots where they can change personnel. Just adding Montero and subtracting Jorge isn’t enough in my opinion.
Mike_Boston October 9th, 2011 at 11:01 am
You build teams around Gardner and Montero, the last thing you do is trade them.

I’d like to hear an argument for moving either of them let alone both.
JK October 9th, 2011 at 11:02 am
I like Beltran and think he would be a good fit, but he is not signing until Mid Jan-Feb. That is just how Boras does business with his older secondary clients (ex. Damon). He will hold out waiting for the 3 year deal from someone.

That being said, the Yankees could pick up Swish’s option and wait to see how Beltran market develops, sign him if his market is not that great then trade Swish.
JK October 9th, 2011 at 11:04 am
If the Yankees could add 2 more potential .300 hitters to their everyday lineup (Montero & Ethier or Beltran) that could be the difference needed for October.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 11:04 am
Let’s not get silly. You build a team around Montero and Cano.

Gardner is a nice complementary player who lends a dynamic element to a high OPS team. YOu don’t build a team around him.
hamiltonian October 9th, 2011 at 11:05 am
You build teams around Gardner?!?!?!?!

You build your offense around Montero, but if he can get you Felix or a young healhty superstar ace in a trade, you do it, and you dont think twice
LockDown October 9th, 2011 at 11:09 am
I’d be curious too see how a healthy Maxwell or Dickerson would do with more consistent playing time at RF. They’re cost effective.

Maybe give one of them a shot if there’s no better option out there. Sure Swisher is good during the season, but if one of these guys can step up during the season, maybe that would make a better post season option than swisher.
Mike_Boston October 9th, 2011 at 11:09 am
Jap,
Lead off guys that put his up all around numbers and play that kind of defense don’t come around often, let alone at his cost. I’m not saying he’s a 3 or 4 hitter like a Cano/Montero, but lead off guys are key to any balanced championship lineup. Let’s face it, he will be leading off for this team soon, or at least should be. Plus he’s probably the better CF than Grandy.
joeman October 9th, 2011 at 11:10 am
# Giuseppe Franco October 9th, 2011 at 10:45 am

Joeman (and Bret) has been trying to trade Gardner and Montero for three years and it hasn’t happened yet.

The front office obviously feels differently about their future than some of the fans who are willing to get rid of them for the sake of getting rid of them.
———————————————————
Yet….guess it’s about time for me to get off of this……
G. Love October 9th, 2011 at 11:11 am
I would pass on Beltran. I’d rather bring Melky back to be honest than get locked into some 3 year Boras deal on Beltran.

A guy who interests me that I have admittedly not gotten to see play a lot is Logan Morrisson on the Marlins. A young LH power hitting OF would be nice to add to the lineup. Wondering if any of you have any impressions on him. Seems like he & the Marlins front office do not get along and could be available.

That said, you look around the league at corner OF’ers and the pickings are slim. Unless the Dodgers attempt to trade Etheir or Kemp, there’s not much out there that could possibly be available.
Yogi Mantle October 9th, 2011 at 11:11 am
The losses were on the offense. The games that were lost were close enough in score that they should have been able to win. They had opportunity but couldn’t get it done.

The Yankees are almost too power dependent. Every batter should be able to lay down a bunt, but most of them can’t. Bunting might not be right for some situations, but if the team as a whole shows it can bunt no matter who is at the plate, it could have a big impact on how teams would be forced to play them in close games.

The team this year was really poor with come from behind wins, poor in longer, extra innings games.

The Yankees scored a lot of runs this past season, but you didn’t feel that they were going to come back late in games. Offense seemed to dry up early in games, and they didn’t know how to manufacture runs.

As big a power as Mantle was, he knew how to bunt, why not some of these big time names on the current roster? Teixeira bunting down third would end some of the extreme shifts. Rodriguez bunting would catch many teams flat footed.

Just the threat of that in close games when a runner is on could open holes in defense.

Gardner needs to improve his bunting skills, he also needs to swing early once in a while to show he isn’t going to take two pitches down the middle of the plate most times in his at bats.
JK October 9th, 2011 at 11:13 am
Montero remains a Yankee unless another #1 Ace becomes available this offseason.
LockDown October 9th, 2011 at 11:17 am
Mike_Boston October 9th, 2011 at 11:09 am

Jap,
Lead off guys that put his up all around numbers and play that kind of defense don’t come around often, let alone at his cost. I’m not saying he’s a 3 or 4 hitter like a Cano/Montero, but lead off guys are key to any balanced championship lineup. Let’s face it, he will be leading off for this team soon, or at least should be. Plus he’s probably the better CF than Grandy.
—-

As long as Jeter is on this team, Gardner will never be given the lead off reigns. So that’s another 3 years & by the time Jeter is gone, Gardner will have passed his prime. The most gardner can hope for is he gets the occasional lead-off against righties, with the added pressure that if he doesn’t flourish from the start, he gets put back to 9th. He’s not really allowed to fail, work through it & gain confidence in it.

On another team, I think he would be a great lead off man though.
JM October 9th, 2011 at 11:17 am
Looks like Cashman could have a new deal as early as next week:

http://riveraveblues.com/2011/.....ell-57553/
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 11:17 am
Mike_Boston October 9th, 2011 at 11:09 am
Jap,
Lead off guys that put his up all around numbers and play that kind of defense don’t come around often, let alone at his cost. I’m not saying he’s a 3 or 4 hitter like a Cano/Montero, but lead off guys are key to any balanced championship lineup. Let’s face it, he will be leading off for this team soon, or at least should be. Plus he’s probably the better CF than Grandy.
///

Yea, we disagree about him as a prototype leadoff hitter. He’s just not a good enough pure hitter for me to even be the leadoff. I think his skills are best served when he’s “hidden” in the nine spot. Too much of a suspect, uppercut swing and not enough of the level one he showed in the postseason.

Stepping out. Check back in a while.
JK October 9th, 2011 at 11:18 am
The Yankees need more gap to gap high batting average hitters. That’s what the 96-2001 team had a ton of. Those teams could get 6 hits in a row with 2 outs.
hamiltonian October 9th, 2011 at 11:20 am
The Yankees were set to trade Montero for Cliff Lee, until they got defrauded by that criminal Jack Z.ero

Any good general manager keeps his options open, unlike some of the prospect-huggers on here. What do you call a fan who is dead set against the Yankees trading Gardner?? He’s no longer a prospect, if he ever was one, so they cant be called prospect huggers. He’s a nice complementary player, but not a budding superstar like Montero.
joeman October 9th, 2011 at 11:23 am
Cash does a nice job…problem the guys that pay him over-rule him when big decisions a needed to be made…
joeman October 9th, 2011 at 11:28 am
Gardner has trade value & if he can be in a package with prospects maybe the Dodgers would part with one of their SP….Gardner can slide into Kemp spot when he leaves after 12 season
JK October 9th, 2011 at 11:33 am
Gardner has a lot of value. Every GM knows hes a top 5 defensive CF playing LF.
Villa Nova-Ya October 9th, 2011 at 11:38 am
don’t be so certain about Jeter hitting leadoff.

Girardi did give the lead-off spot to Gardner to start the year. It wasn’t working, so he went back to Jeter. Now, you can say he didn’t stick with it long enough; that’s another point altogether. The fact is, he did try it.

The question is, really, is there any real chance that Jeter will be moved to the 2nd or 3rd third of the lineup? I’m not convinced he needs to be; what combo of players would be better in 1, 2 and 3?

All I hope is that in spring training, Girardi gives a few different lineups a look-see.
Betsy October 9th, 2011 at 11:39 am
Jeter can still play the game – but then he probably never thought he couldn’t; he’s one of the most confident athletes I’ve ever seen.

Sherman is awful and he’s very good, sometimes in the span of a day or a week or even an hour. I have no idea what his article suggested as I just got up and haven’t read it – but if it’s Beltran, absolutely no way. There is no way I would ever sign this guy to a long-term deal – it’s asking for trouble.

As to Gardner, I’ve never been a big fan – he’s more of a 4th OF to me.
Villa Nova-Ya October 9th, 2011 at 11:39 am
Why would you trade Gardner? Who plays left? Who fills in in CF to give Grandy a rest? Who is your #1 hitter if they move Jeter down? Who is your speed guy????
Northy October 9th, 2011 at 11:39 am
Totally agree on the need for gap to gap hitters…

The Yankees are either an high OBP and high slugging team – problem is that in the post season you face pitchers who won’t throw you a meatball you can crush.

Tex, Arod, Swish and Granderson killed the offense in the postseason…
joeman October 9th, 2011 at 11:41 am
# Betsy October 9th, 2011 at 11:39 am

As to Gardner, I’ve never been a big fan – he’s more of a 4th OF to me.
—————————————————-
ditto
Northy October 9th, 2011 at 11:41 am
Gardner
Jeter
Cano
Montero
Tex
A-Rod
Granderson
Swisher
Martin

Thats if the current team is kept together. If Arod is healthy he and Montero might switch
lounge lizard October 9th, 2011 at 11:42 am
2011 OPS+

Curtis Granderson 138
Robinson Cano 129
Melky Cabrera 121
Mark Teixeira 117
Nick Swisher 117
Alex Rodriguez 116
Derek Jeter 97
Russell Martin 92
Brett Gardner 89

The real world of large sample size. Unlike golf, the lower numbers are not the good ones. Gardner will not be traded because 89 OPS+ won’t bring anything. Swisher will not be traded because he developed a 200 point platoon split and no one will want to pay 10 million for someone who can’t hit RHP.

I include Melky because I’m a bitter sort of guy. If Montero gets traded away . . . shudder.
Betsy October 9th, 2011 at 11:47 am
I’m not worried about Alex not performing in the post-season if he’s healthy, but IMO, it’s enough with Swish. This lineup is practically immutable and he’s one of the few pieces you can move. Sure he’s good in the regular season, but other players can also be good for us – in the post-season, he’s been beyond atrocious and something has to change with this team. We get knocked out in the first around way too much lately……no, it’s not just Swisher. Again, I’m not worried about Alex, but Tex? He’s not going anywhere -we’re stuck with him. Jeter is ok, but it will be easier to fix the lineup when he’s gone…..It’s not the most disciplined team in the world – even their two best hitters, Cano and Granderson, aren’t. I’d like to see them get back to how it was in the dynasty years, just a couple of stars and talented, flexible role players around them. I don’t think that will ever happen, though (the Yankees love stars) – and as long as Tex is who he is and is in the middle of the lineup, it’s going to hurt us.
joeman October 9th, 2011 at 11:49 am
# Villa Nova-Ya October 9th, 2011 at 11:39 am

Why would you trade Gardner? Who plays left? Who fills in in CF to give Grandy a rest? Who is your #1 hitter if they move Jeter down? Who is your speed guy????
—————————-
get me a legit #2 SP (if CC stays..not a given ) and I would trade Gardner in a minute….take a look at the playoff teams that are left & the only team that has a decent SB count are the Rangers
Betsy October 9th, 2011 at 11:49 am
JK, I wouldn’t trade Montero even for a #1 starter…….and I don’t like their starting pitching at all. They desperately need Montero.
Against All Odds October 9th, 2011 at 11:50 am
# Northy October 9th, 2011 at 11:41 am

Gardner
Jeter
Cano
Montero
Tex
A-Rod
Granderson
Swisher
Martin

Thats if the current team is kept together. If Arod is healthy he and Montero might switch

——————————————

They aren’t going to bat Jesus that high next yr. Yankees are always slow on making changes.
joeman October 9th, 2011 at 11:50 am
# Northy October 9th, 2011 at 11:41 am

Gardner
Jeter
Cano
Montero
Tex
A-Rod
Granderson
Swisher
Martin

Thats if the current team is kept together. If Arod is healthy he and Montero might switch
——————————-
and expect more of the same next year…great reg season and a 1st rd playoff loss
Betsy October 9th, 2011 at 11:50 am
If TX gets to the WS, then you really have to say that they are the team in the AL. The Yankees and Sox get the press, but Texas is the one getting it done.
RadioKev October 9th, 2011 at 11:51 am
Tex, Arod, Swish and Granderson killed the offense in the postseason…

———

Granderson had some walks, had at least one home run, a triple, a double, some singles.
Villa Nova-Ya October 9th, 2011 at 11:52 am
And the Rangers may go the distance.

It is about balance, I think. The Rangers do have a balanced team.
Villa Nova-Ya October 9th, 2011 at 11:53 am
And Gardner’s speed is also an asset in the outfield.
Northy October 9th, 2011 at 11:53 am
I’ll like som chances to the team, but if the team is the same I’d go with the suggested lineup, and hope that the top 4 hitters have a better PS approach
joeman October 9th, 2011 at 11:57 am
saying 50/50% chance CC stays..
108 stitches October 9th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
5 years/$26.75M (2007-11), plus 2012 club option

signed extension with Oakland 5/11/07, replacing 1 year/$0.4M deal for 2007 signed 3/07

$0.5M signing bonus
07:$0.7M, 08:$3.5M, 09:$5.3M, 10:$6.75M, 11:$9M,
12:$10.25M club option ($1M buyout)
2012 option increases to $12M with top 5 in MVP vote any year 2007-11
limited no-trade clause 2011-12 (may block deals to 6 clubs)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Not sure which 6 teams Swisher can block deals to but I’d try working a deal of Swisher and possibly Brackman and Warren / Phelps to the Phillies for Hunter Pence.
If not, trade with K.C. with Melky for Brackman, Golson and Phelps and dangle Swisher to another team for a pitcher.
LockDown October 9th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
The yankees have had trouble tacking on/manufacturing runs for much of the season.

Though they did a great job of it while Jeter was on the DL & Gardner was leading off before Grandy. Many of the late runs were a manufactured run where Gardner was involved. A bunt, steal, even stealing 3rd & scoring w/o even a hit at times. And he’s great defensively.

Very sad how under-appreciated fans are about what he brings to the table.
mick October 9th, 2011 at 12:12 pm
damon and matsui…who replaced their clutch bats?
Betsy October 9th, 2011 at 12:14 pm
Sherman’s article was ok. He’s spot on about how cold Cashman has become and therefore unpopular with the players…..not that it’s his job to be popular.

He didn’t offer much of a solution with CC, but I hope he’s right about the Yankees wanting to avoid getting into an awful contract situation. CC stepping on the Yankees throat and threatening to leave unless he gets the most $$$ and years he possibly can would tell me a lot about CC – and not in a positive way.

Wilson? Is it really necessary for the Yankees to go whole hog after him just because he happens to be the best pitcher available? It doesn’t mean he’s great or even worth what he’s going to get. I just do not want to give anymore FA pitchers long term deals for big $$ – they’re just going to come up and bite us in the behind
LockDown October 9th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
“damon and matsui…who replaced their clutch bats?”

—–

Gardner replaced Damon

Swisher did NOT replace Matsui

Injured A-Rod failed to replace A-Rod
RadioKev October 9th, 2011 at 12:17 pm
mick October 9th, 2011 at 12:12 pm
damon and matsui…who replaced their clutch bats?
———–

Granderson, soon Montero (hopefully)
mick October 9th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
This is the problem. As betsy says, “bets player available” the marquee name.
Where are the Andy Pettittes of the world, go get Beurhle, Moyer, Freddy for your 5th starter
maybe he will do that instead of throwing money to play B’way.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 12:23 pm
I don’t see trading Gardner just to trade him; it would have to make sense and the Yankees would have to have a fall plan.

If the Yankees didn’t have such a self-projecting manager when it comes to the catcher spot, Gardner’s assets as a change-of-pace nine hitter would be really increased. They have to commit to Montero as the catcher at least half of the time, and get another good bat into the DH spot, whether it’s using a rotation of guys like Alex, Jones (if he’s brought back) and plugging say, Nunez into 3B or what have you.

That potentially gives you a loaded lineup in which Gardner’s contrasting style really works. But if you’re going to just have Martin’s bat and Gardner’s bat in the everyday lineup, you’re taking a hit offensively and can forget about any circularity of lineup the team has enjoyed as an advantage for years and years. I like Gardner within that context, but he’s not what Mason Williams promises to be.
mick October 9th, 2011 at 12:23 pm
somewhere down the line it became about talent only bc who can measure character?
did we get lucky with those character guys, who knew matsui was so clutch, even Andy…damon we knew about. so many other marginal players…brosius, hayes,too many to mention who delivered. Tex, Swish? not w/money on the line, even arod, he did it once that’s not a characteristic of his.
1st place, wildcard, we do that every year in our sleep…1 championship in 10 years is not where its at, something is wrong, cash has to fix it and i don’t mean money.
mick October 9th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
you go with nova in game 5,fine, by default, but that was cc’s game. The staff was patchwork and the hitting was menial under pressure. this was a great year for personal goals but the team was not great. good enough, not great. it is in transition whether they know it or not, which i think they do.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 12:30 pm
I think the belly button contemplation is misplaced. There’s not a helluva lot wrong with this team, ad whomever thinks Alex is some sort of handicap is seriously challenged, IMO.

They need an infusion of youth in the lineup (Montero’s bat and Nunez’s – both already here) and in the staff (Nova with 2011 under his belt; Hughes hopefully restored to full strength, Joba another look as a starter, Noesi stretched out and vying for a spot – also, already in house), and guys like Alex and Tex to rebound and make some adjustments, respectively.

There’s no need to trade away Gardner, or anyone else, unless their being moved has a real purpose. I can see dealing Swisher once he’s back in the fold though, especially if they are really going to fool around with Montero again in 2012. We pretty much have a world beating CF and two guys on the corners who have pluses but also minuses. The OF could use an upgrade, but it isn’t dire.
Bo knows October 9th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
Using OPS+ as a rating system that rewards HRs and walks is all well and good on paper. I haven’t seen where there is a component for quality at bats against quality pitching. That’s where the system breaks down. Until there is a stat rating degree of difficulty in at bats, it’s just a bunch of numbers. Come the PS that’s all the system is, paper. It might be small sample size but Teix and Swisher, sitting at 117, have failed miserably in the PS. Teix as a Yankee, Swisher always. Crying “But they have a 117 OPS+” does not address the problem. It’s called “Paper Power” which needs a reality check.

Any system that rates Granderson some ten points higher than Cano is a flawed system. It doesn’t pass the reality test.
joeman October 9th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
getting to the playoffs is the easy part of the Yankee season… solid # 1 & 2 SP and clutch hitting (RISP).= WS win
mick October 9th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
how could anybody dump on gardner? he was the only one who hit in the clutch in the alds.
dump on arod, swisher and tex the 4-5-6 hitters who didn’t…they cost us the series.
RMS October 9th, 2011 at 12:33 pm
With the numbers that Granderson put up, no way would you bat him 7th.
4 NYY October 9th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
As much as I don’t wanna trade Jesus, would you like to see : Montero & Swish for Kemp ?
4 NYY October 9th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
As much as I don’t wanna trade Jesus, would you like to see : Montero & Swish for Kemp ?

I forgot to throw in Soriano and some cash.
RMS October 9th, 2011 at 12:37 pm
dump on arod, swisher and tex the 4-5-6 hitters who didn’t…they cost us the series.

—————————————————————————————-
And Girardi also, for not moving Posada up in the line-up.
mick October 9th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
the suits are prolly happy with this season, they made mucho dinero in the reg. season as they always do to afford their yachts, mansions, etc… do you think they care about the fan’s desire to win it all?
i don’t. sure they would have made more w/ an alcs and ws but not enough to better their lifestyle.
so expect more of the same in ’12. getting Wilson will be step 1, to keep him away from boston is 1A. he wont be the difference as the pitching wasn’t the problem.
maybe getting a creative assistant to cashman would . someone who can scour the system for role players but they are so stacked that there is no room so get used to more of the same.
Bo knows October 9th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
Matsui and Damon were tough outs as in quality at bats.

Teix, Swish and Granderson are toast when they meet a quality off speed pitch low and away. They’re pulling off the ball, opening up too soon, call it what you will, going for that short porch and glory. The better the pitching and by definition that’s what you get in the PS, the lower the % of meatballs. Result – flail/fail
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 12:47 pm
4 NYY October 9th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
As much as I don’t wanna trade Jesus, would you like to see : Montero & Swish for Kemp ?
///

Hell, no. Kemp they can sign as a FA in a year’s time. Good as Kemp’s bat is, and as right as he’d be in RF, his bat isn’t what Montero’s will be. Montero’s 21. I don’t trade him for anyone.
G. Love October 9th, 2011 at 12:49 pm
While I wouldn’t call Arod handicapped I would point out that he came into this season “healthier than ever and determined” by his own admission. The hips was dealt with. He was lighter. More flexible and stronger. Read the pre-season puff pieces on Arod.

In the Spring he looked like an MVP candidate only to take that into the start of the season and then he got injured. And kept getting injured. He broke down a lot this season. This was after an off season where he dedicated himself to being 100% healthy and better ready for the season.

I expect next spring to read/hear about his rigorous off season program. How he’s in the best shape of his life.

Whether his body will cooperate with the narrative remains to be seen.

There’s nothing you can do with him. Either he’ll stay healthy and be very productive or be on the DL a lot. I don’t really see much in between with him.

I do see Girardi stumping for Arod as full time DH and that causing Cashman to put Montero out there since Girardi won’t catch him.

I hope Girardi proves me wrong about his real feelings about Montero. This is going to be an interesting off season for sure seeing how they shape the club. It will tell you a lot about who is in charge.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
G. Love, I never read that stuff .

He got a freak thumb injury that compounded the knee and hip. You can argue that age makes a player more injury prone, and yes, the body must cooperate, but he got hit on all sides and that thumb really delayed him getting back in the box to reclaim his timing.

I think you’re also forgetting the calibre of player we’re talking about. I also can’t reconcile the bleak prognosis with how Alex looked at 3B in the postseason. That might have been the best stretch of defense over there he’s given us since we got him – and that’s saying a lot. That tells me his issues were indeed timing related, and the fact that he ran out of time. What they can do to help keep him fresh is take advantage of the depth that Nunez offers. What a useful, all around glove and quick, line drive hitting bat he is. Give Alex & Jeter a blow even more often on the defensive side, that would do both a world of good.

The idea that Alex’s need of the DH spot as a reason to get rid of Montero (I know it’s not your idea, you’re projecting Girardi’s possible view) would mean the manager is downright dangerous and reckless, and the FO too for not grasping that Montero is not only a complement to someone as good as Alex, but the safety net for any deterioration of Alex, and also the future protection (like, next season) for Cano. If the Yankees don’t get this, then all our crying is in vain. It would mean they have no clue about their own needs.
trisha - true pinstriped blue October 9th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
I would suggest Ryan Braun for right field but he’s tied up until 2020, he plays left field, and he’s on a team that may very well win the world series so he might not want to move to the Yankees anyway.

But I did almost sleep at a Holiday Inn last night. Okay I considered it. Okay I’m lying. It didn’t cross my mine.

I guess I’m a little giddy today because I’m pleased that the mighty Verlander and the cheating Tigers (see Kenny Rogers, pine tar) lost last night’s game. May they continue to have the same kind of success. And may the umpires continue to show them how payback feels.
mick October 9th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
Who exactly is in charge?
It used to be George but who is it now? Hal?
I tend to doubt that.
More of a triumvirate of Cash, joe and Hal, more likely.
Majority rules.
Basically laissez faire and let the youth infuse. Not a bad model but there is some decay.
The talents alone of Cano and Granderson are not enough to carry us on a one dimensional team.
The only place where there was hunger was in the pitching staff where they were driven by the 6 man audition. At least RF and LF are 2 spots where there could be some competition.
mick October 9th, 2011 at 1:00 pm
Give Alex & Jeter a blow even more often on the defensive side, that would do both a world of good.
===========
and take away ab’s from montero.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 1:01 pm
Trisha, I don’t share your loathing of Verlander, but I tip my cap to you in going after people who have been so unreasonable and mean spirited about C. He’s a horse and an ace, and as we’ve both observed, the dinking around with his throw day and that protracted 6-man rotation stuff surely hurt him.

First order of business: get him inked. CJ Wilson couldn’t hold his jock strap.
Shame Spencer October 9th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
“I do see Girardi stumping for Arod as full time DH and that causing Cashman to put Montero out there since Girardi won’t catch him. ”

I just don’t see how this could be the case… If the organizations intention is for Montero to be an everyday player in some capacity I just don’t buy that Girardi is the guy that stands in the way.. Girardi is just as replaceable as Montero, if not more so. If he’s not willing to go along with the organizational plan than I can’t imagine he’d have a job for much longer. I think people are way too caught up in which catcher Girardi prefers. He’s only middle management, if that.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 1:05 pm
Mick, the problem seems to be too much of a voice for Girardi. I never thought I’d say this when they were romancing him. I wanted him here, I thought he’d be smart but bold, also. He’s such a tight a s s when it comes to making moves in the lineup, I’m concerned about the future.

Since he’s not going anywhere, the only antidote I see is loading up the lineup so much that he can’t get in the way. The quicker Nunez gets seasoned in RF and 3B (I don’t agree with people here that SS is problematic) the better. The more Joe can get comfortable with Montero as a catcher, the better (if he even gets that opportunity). If the lineup needs to be optimal.
G. Love October 9th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
JAP,

I also thought Arod played exceptional defense in the field in the post season. It’s probably why there was so much shock that the bat didn’t catch up and why guys like Francesa want to put the target solely on Arod. I guess the thinking is he looked nimble in the field so he must be healthy so why isn’t he hitting like a hall of famer?

Again, I think the manager could have diffused the pressure on Arod by realizing that Jorge had a very hot bat and realizing Jorge wasn’t up there swinging for Cooperstown, he was taking what the pitcher gave him.

Not breaking up Arod-Tex-Swish with Jorge was one of the biggest sins of a short series. That’s where I get upset with Girardi not reacting to what’s happening on the field.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
I just don’t see how this could be the case… If the organizations intention is for Montero to be an everyday player in some capacity I just don’t buy that Girardi is the guy that stands in the way.. Girardi is just as replaceable as Montero, if not more so. If he’s not willing to go along with the organizational plan than I can’t imagine he’d have a job for much longer. I think people are way too caught up in which catcher Girardi prefers. He’s only middle management, if that.
///

Shame, I hope it’s just an acute conservatism that wants to get him established over a longer period of time before they “trust” him behind the plate. You do have to acknowledge, though, that Girardi has a weakness for defense-first catchers. Would Montero have been on the roster if Cervelli hadn’t met misfortune? The fact that I’m not sure says volumes. I don’t think they brought a seemingly bright mind in like Girardi to merely make out the lineup card. He’s clearly part of the decision making process.

Now, if he is ambivalent about the team’s next offensive star, who happens to be a catcher whom they apparently are squeamish about there, that is a huge red flag. The biggest mistake this organization could make would be moving that bat because they lack confidence in him as a catcher. If that happens, then we know why, and we know who.
mick October 9th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
Pruf…we shall see on Joe. His referendum begins next year. Cervelli stands between Martin and Montero and personally he should go. If he is the man in the middle then Montero will never catch here as there will always be another in between. These are behind the scenes and will play out shortly , maybe Montero is a disaster back there and they are right, I don’t know.
mick October 9th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
That’s where I get upset with Girardi not reacting to what’s happening on the field.
=================
The same thing happened to Torre. It’s called security.
trisha - true pinstriped blue October 9th, 2011 at 1:13 pm
J Al – when it comes to the Yanks, my fervent wish is that fans would use intellectual introspection when it comes to their pronouncements, because to do less actually makes them look STOOPID. Know what you’re talking about if you’re going to decide to manage someone off the team. Okay, know what you’re talking about no matter what. So some fans didn’t take the time to look at the logistics of his season (knee jerkers tend to look at the season as a snapshot in time as opposed to an entire entity) but geeze can they at least think past their noses as to the logistics of the series? It isn’t rocket science to figure that a pitcher on very short rest may not come out with his best stuff. And HELLLO!!! Did they not see how he was stripped of his pitching dignity by Gerry Davis?

To end up blaming CC is really beyond unfair. It’s incomprehensible.
G. Love October 9th, 2011 at 1:16 pm
You can’t event think about trading Nunez anymore. His bat is needed and he covers SS and 3b ably in case of emergency. If he can play a nice corner OF spot to boot? He’s a major part of the team. We missed his bat in the ALDS. There were situations where I’d rather him hit than Martin/Gardner/Swisher because he makes solid contact against pitchers with hard stuff.

Also, there’s something to be said for the mental state of guys like Nunez and Montero who never seemed to panic.

If you can’t see the panic on Swisher and Tex (sometimes) you’re not watching. When Swisher got a hit you thought he was going to collapse into Kelleher’s arms at 1b it was dramatic.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 1:16 pm
Not breaking up Arod-Tex-Swish with Jorge was one of the biggest sins of a short series. That’s where I get upset with Girardi not reacting to what’s happening on the field.
///

I agree. If he had even just swapped Jorge for Swisher, I think we would have been hosting the ALCS opener yesterday. He just isn’t a fluid, in the present kind of manager. That’s troublesome, because there is some variability with this powerful but unpredictable lineup, age being a factor as well as the moneyball inclinations of guys like Swisher.

I don’t think Alex fits that mode, he will often shorten up and go to the opposite field. I think the guys making these comments don’t seem to understand that hitting is an isolated skill from fielding. Alex being athletically fit, plus his generally good approach at the plate and Game 4 results gave me hope it was just around the corner…maybe it was, maybe it was going to come together on Saturday . …
mick October 9th, 2011 at 1:18 pm
CC is a machine and machines don’t like to get tinkered with esp if they are working at 100% capacity and efficiency. They are to be commended and respected for this.
The 6 man was an experiment that failed. Colon got overworked even with the 6 man, what does that tell you? Hughes should have been shutdown. They had enough staring pitching, esp when you realize the season didn’t matter as much as the bigger prize. You don’t need 5 or 6 men in the PS, maybe 3 or 4 but your Ace must be protected.

He was out of sync and the 6 man did it.
And the rain…
trisha - true pinstriped blue October 9th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
Here’s another stat I’ve been thinking about. I’m pretty sure I had heard that the Yankees had the best day-game record in the majors. Damn that they always have to play the late-night games in the postseason because of prime time!
trisha - true pinstriped blue October 9th, 2011 at 1:20 pm
“CC is a machine and machines don’t like to get tinkered with esp if they are working at 100% capacity and efficiency. They are to be commended and respected for this.
The 6 man was an experiment that failed. Colon got overworked even with the 6 man, what does that tell you? Hughes should have been shutdown. They had enough staring pitching, esp when you realize the season didn’t matter as much as the bigger prize. You don’t need 5 or 6 men in the PS, maybe 3 or 4 but your Ace must be protected.

He was out of sync and the 6 man did it.
And the rain…”

That’s the entire story of the guy’s season. Thanks mick. It’s all right there.
randy l. October 9th, 2011 at 1:22 pm
“Not breaking up Arod-Tex-Swish with Jorge was one of the biggest sins of a short series. ”

the yankees need to break up these guys in the line up simply because they are both too streaky.

they are a big hole in the middle of the line up when they are both in a bad streak at the same time.
mick October 9th, 2011 at 1:22 pm
Maybe Cash has just been here too long?
But who hates him enough to not renew him?
Levine?
Shame Spencer October 9th, 2011 at 1:22 pm
J Alfred – I guess I’d argue that having Girardi be a part of the decision making is an organizational decision and therefore must be in line with their overarching plans for the future. In other words, if he does have a heavy influence in such matters its one that they must welcome. I just have to believe that there is a think tank that, while it may include Girardi’s opinions/perspective, is above his authority and has real long-term plans. Too much of what is said about Girardi, to me, implies that there are no long-term plans for a lot of these young players. I just do not believe that. It may be naive lol, but I just choose to believe otherwise.
RMS October 9th, 2011 at 1:24 pm
To end up blaming CC is really beyond unfair. It’s incomprehensible.

————————————————————————–
I don’t blame CC at all and haven’t seen that many posts being critical of him.

Alex, Tex, Swisher are the culprits. If any one of the 3 could have gotten some big hits, Yanks would have gone to the next round.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 1:27 pm
Shame, sure, that would definitely be on them. I really like Cash generally, but I think he’s too much of a slave to a saber approach.

The bottom line is this, IMO: the most important player in terms of positively affecting the lineup going forward, and increasing their chances of winning, is Jesus Montero.

If they allow Girardi’s microcosmic reductionist pet view that defensive catching is more relevant than a game changing bat that can have a transcendent influence on the lineup for years to come, one that already has shown it is singular in nature and cannot be swapped out for another, then yes, shame on the FO.
hamiltonian October 9th, 2011 at 1:27 pm
Blaming CC for anything is absurd. He pitched his heart out, he pitched to the best of his ability, and he pitched as well as anyone possibly could given the fraudulent strike zone he received in Games 1, 3, and 5
mick October 9th, 2011 at 1:27 pm
But who hates him enough to not renew him?
Levine?
============
He is the one who spearheaded the Torre ouster but there was public turmoil about Torre at the time. None exists for Girardi or Cashman so the staus quo will prevail. I say one more season like this is the next to last call. 2013 should be a good FA year so one more year of futility after that should spell the end for both. 2 year deal for Cash.
trisha - true pinstriped blue October 9th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
“I don’t blame CC at all and haven’t seen that many posts being critical of him.”

Did you read the forum right after the Yankees lost and for all the days since???
RSM October 9th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
There does not need to be a DH merry go round.
I wish the Yankees (Girardi) would understand that not having a dedicated DH is giving up the place in the batting order that can have the greatest impact.
Add to that the fact that the Yankees need another good RH bat in the order, especially with Alex aging and often injured at this point in his career, and Montero at DH makes so much sense.
Montero should DH all but 2 days a week – those two days, he catches (just not Burnett). On the two days he catches, Alex can DH and Nunez can play 3rd. This keeps Martin at catcher most days (better defense), keeps Montero and Alex in the line up every day (better offense), gives Alex and Martin adequate rest, and gives Nunez enough playing time to stay sharp.
The occasional day that Tex, Jeter or Swish need rest (which is less often than Alex), they can just have the day off.
It’s not rocket science.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
Alex, not really. He did what he could with what he had at that point in time.

Tex, yes, but Tex did make a nice partial adjustment and had a decent Game 5.

Swisher, is and was a nightmare.

Blaming CC? Yes Trisha, his K-zone was a nightmare. Made him throw way more pitches than a fair one would have necessitated and surely influenced the outcome of that game. To outside fans, it sounds like self-absorbed, entitled Yankee fan paranoia, but when Ron Darling, who has no stake in the Yankees, for heaven sake, also agrees, and when the media opens postgame questions for the manager on that note, well, there’s fire there.
hamiltonian October 9th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
You dont trade Gardner just for the sake of trading Gardner. He’s a valuable part of the team. Any deal would have to make sense…. in the eyes of Brian Cashman.

Swisher is beyond disgusting. His happy go lucky attitude is old. Happy is fine, as long as you make an effort to get better. He hasnt. He is content to be what he is
Red Robin October 9th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
FYI

Don Kelly is available to the Yankees after this year.

Currently has 1 year/$0.423M contract with Tigres.
mick October 9th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
the yankees need to break up these guys in the line up simply because they are both too streaky.
===============================
If Montero lives up to his abilities, Tex could be dropped to 6th, Swish 7th, if here.
hamiltonian October 9th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
Anyone who blames CC should get the death penalty.
Red Robin October 9th, 2011 at 1:32 pm
FYI

Ramon Santiago is available to the Yankees after this year.

Currently has 2 year (2010,2011) / $2.5M contract with Tigres.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 1:32 pm
I wish the Yankees (Girardi) would understand that not having a dedicated DH is giving up the place in the batting order that can have the greatest impact.
///

Well said, and he’s already giving up offense at C.
Red Robin October 9th, 2011 at 1:33 pm
FYI

Unfortunately, Brandon Ainge is not available to the Yankees until after the 2012 season.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 1:35 pm
trisha – true pinstriped blue October 9th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
“I don’t blame CC at all and haven’t seen that many posts being critical of him.”

Did you read the forum right after the Yankees lost and for all the days since???
///

trisha, I really need to just stop going on these boards. If the ‘he’s no ace’ stuff wasn’t bad enough, reading indignities about his weight from the usual low life quotient was much to bear. It’s one thing for the Yankees to address him losing some pounds, if they see fit, another entirely to read that hate mongering crap directed at such a dignified, dedicated Yankee.
Red Robin October 9th, 2011 at 1:35 pm
Jeter
Granderson
Don Kelly
Cano
A-Rod
Teixeira
Montero
Martin
Santiago

Backup catcher / 3rd baseman: Brandon Ainge

———-

No bad ?

No ?
Shame Spencer October 9th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
“If they allow Girardi’s microcosmic reductionist pet view that defensive catching is more relevant than a game changing bat that can have a transcendent influence on the lineup for years to come, one that already has shown it is singular in nature and cannot be swapped out for another, then yes, shame on the FO.”

Thats exactly my point… Girardi’s ‘microcosmic reductionist pet views’ are really irrelevant without the support of the FO. I’m not trying to reduce Girardi to a guy that just fills out the line-up card either, but I don’t think he has the power that a lot of people seem to think he does. Like, I don’t think Girardi is going to Cash and saying “I’d really like this AAA guy up here”… I think its Cash coming to Girardi to say “Hey this guy is coming in and this is how you’re gonna use him.”
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
Shame, in my sorrow, I have been pounding a chocolate chip brand called Tate’s. Pricey, but very good. I add my own walnuts, since the one they offer in whole wheat doesn’t have them in them.
RMS October 9th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
Swisher is beyond disgusting. His happy go lucky attitude is old. Happy is fine, as long as you make an effort to get better. He hasnt. He is content to be what he is

————————————————————————————————
Cashman loves him, good clubhouse guy. We’ll see how much he loves a guy who can’t hit in the post season.
trisha - true pinstriped blue October 9th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
“trisha, I really need to just stop going on these boards. If the ‘he’s no ace’ stuff wasn’t bad enough, reading indignities about his weight from the usual low life quotient was much to bear. It’s one thing for the Yankees to address him losing some pounds, if they see fit, another entirely to read that hate mongering crap directed at such a dignified, dedicated Yankee.”

That’s exactly the kind of stuff I was talking about too, J Al. And these coming from supposed Yankee fans! I guess all reasonableness goes right out the window if the Yankees have the audacity to lose games. I think it must be coming from a coddled quotient because I tend to think that people who are responsible for their own lives don’t have quite the same level of entitlement as those who have others doing everything for them. Maybe that’s not right on the money, I don’t know. But the sense of entitlement is off the charts.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
Shame, I don’t know if the lines are drawn so sharply. Girardi probably had certain conditions to accepting the job, as well. He probably said he’s not a good yes man, he needs input to be effective, and I daresay, they didn’t hire him to be a yes man. He doesn’t see the minor league guys himself – relies on others on that. But his general philosophies they had to already be sympathetic with. Cashman is into this whole sort of “more athletic” more saber thing to begin with, so rather than Girardi necessarily calling the shots, I think it’s a committee that is already in sympathy.

We do know that they tried to trade Montero for Cliff Lee, but were rebuffed. That’s documented, and it does not give me confidence.
RadioKev October 9th, 2011 at 1:42 pm
mick October 9th, 2011 at 1:22 pm
Maybe Cash has just been here too long?
But who hates him enough to not renew him?
Levine?

————-

This is ridiculous. Yankee fans don’t know how good they have it I guess.
randy l. October 9th, 2011 at 1:44 pm
one of the great problems with baseball is that the post season has been dumbed down for the casual fan.

the post season is such a crap shoot with the short series and tv guiding the playing times that bad teams can and do win post season series.

for me it lowers my interest in made for tv baseball.

it’s not the baseball i grew up with when the two teams that met in the world series were both good.

with the present system, i can think of no way to build a team for the post season that a team could do to enhance it’s chances.

when the yankees lost , i just thought ,ho hum, just another victim of the crap shoot called the playoffs.

if the yankees could build a team for the playoffs, that would excite me and get my interest.

one day baseball will wake up and make the post season a test that measures the best team.

i’m not holding my breath though.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
I like Swish, it’s just the same issues with him. I think Tex is just a better player/hitter and also I expect adjustments, but with Swish, I don’t know how centered he can stay for long to make adjustments.
trisha - true pinstriped blue October 9th, 2011 at 1:49 pm
randy l. October 9th, 2011 at 1:44 pm

Excellent analysis Randy.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 1:51 pm
It will get worse with the 2nd WC team and the one-offs, which they apparently intend to do.

///

I had another Yankee anxiety dream. Most of it had nothing to do with the team, but at the very end of traveling around this astral urban center, someone I knew very well approached me and dreaded giving me information he nevertheless felt compelled to confide. I thought someone mutual to us had passed away. Finally, he told me that Betances got creamed by a defensive lineman. I was so distraught until I said ‘wait a minute, Betances doesn’t play football…”

That’s my happy note to end on.

Have a good one, folks.
mick October 9th, 2011 at 1:51 pm
I think it must be coming from a coddled quotient because I tend to think that people who are responsible for their own lives don’t have quite the same level of entitlement as those who have others doing everything for them.
===================
Or maybe the children of entitled Yankee fans have not grown up.
mick October 9th, 2011 at 1:55 pm
one day baseball will wake up and make the post season a test that measures the best team.
=============================
not when they are about to add a 2nd wildcard.
that would have taken the drama away from this years WC chase as both get in.
be ready for more dilution, at least we know the difference between what’s real and make believe.
trisha - true pinstriped blue October 9th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
“Or maybe the children of entitled Yankee fans have not grown up.”

Chips off the old block, as it were.
mick October 9th, 2011 at 2:04 pm
for the mental health aspect of it alone, it does not pay to cry over yankee failures.
or to blame.
to point out weaknesses and try to change them, yes.
to think it is easy to solve them, no.
this is why it is so hard to repeat, the variability of it all.
we have a free swinging group, not conducive to hitting under pressure,
that is a problem when you have a virtual all star team.
one remedy is the infusion of new blood.
one that comes most readily with injury or old age onset…

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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News

Jeter finishes in a familiar spot

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