Sabathia: “I love NYC”
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 09, 2011 
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If CC Sabathia’s planning to play hardball with the Yankees, he’s not doing a very good job hiding his love of New York. Just a few minutes ago, the Yankees ace posted a new Twitter message:
Missing the Bronx already,my daughter just asked me “can we go to Yankee game” I love NYC
The Tweet seems to have been a direct response to a typically terrific story from Ken Davidoff showing exactly how committed CC and his wife Amber have been since purchasing a house just outside of the city.
Sabathia might very well opt out, but given the Yankees focus on pitching and Sabathia’s love for New York, it’s still hard to imagine him ending up anywhere else.
“Gardner was successful in the ALDS, but for most of the season, he was not successful in changing his swing, bunting, or running when necessary. He is a good player, but still inconsistent.”
This is true.
I think he still has room to grow!
Whether CC loves NYC is neither here nor there. The fact of the matter is that he’s going to opt out and force the Yankees to cough up some serious $$$ to keep him. And they will…because without CC, we don’t have a rotation.
I know he loves NY, but Laura is right. I don’t begrudge any player making the most $$$ that he can, but then if CC tries to do that, I don’t want to hear about how he loves NY. Making the Yankees fork over top $$$ for another 4 or 5 years is going to hurt them down the road…..
repost:
(G-C, certainly not meant for you)
And by the way, as someone pointed out previously, the fact that the first question that was asked of Girardi by the press had to do with the strike zone in CC’s game, and the fact that it was widely talked about by the media that night and the next day, tells you that anyone with an ounce of intelligence would have to realize just how bad the strike zone was and how strikes continually being called balls can put runners on base who shouldn’t be there and can make a pitch count go through the roof. And allow runs to score that have no business scoring and get a pitcher out of a game much earlier than he otherwise would have been out.
Judge Judy had it right. Beauty fades but dumb is forever.
********
“Sabathia might very well opt out, but given the Yankees focus on pitching and Sabathia’s love for New York, it’s still hard to imagine him ending up anywhere else.”
Chad, I totally agree. I am willing to totally go out on a limb, ha ha (that’s not even venturing on the limb, it’s such a no brainer) and say there is no chance CC will be anywhere BUT the Bronx.
And I hope they pay him whatever it takes – which I’m sure they will. He’s worth every penny.
G-C -
Absolutely Agree!
Gardner is a hard worker and has won me over. I’d just like to see more consistency and that he hit more balls to the left side of the infield, please! LOL
Most of the Yankees do work very hard and try to improve their game.
I am encouraged that Tex has recognized his problems and I think this time will address the issues in a much more aggressive way. He is too good and too proud a player to be satisfied with his BA. The production numbers were nice, but I’m sure he’d have given anything to have been able to slap a ball against the shift. He just couldn’t do it.
*****
I find Verducci disingenuous. I always loved to read his work. Since the Torre book, however, I would think his connections to the Yankees are tenuous at best, and I am not sure what his agenda is.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that the Yankees and CC don’t let it get to “opt out.”
“I find Verducci disingenuous. I always loved to read his work. Since the Torre book, however, I would think his connections to the Yankees are tenuous at best, and I am not sure what his agenda is.”
Villa, happy you said it. I am in exactly the same place with Verducci. I see him as nothing more now than a Torre shill.
Then raise his salary by a few million per year for the original contract years to keep him the top-paid pitcher in baseball. Forget about more than two extra years.
I don’t care whether he opts out or not. It’s a business. All I care about is his coming back. Which he will.
Now, for real, night all.
And NYC loves CC.
The tweet about going to another Yankee game hurts, though.
GB7,
I think I caught your drift in the last thread. If that’s what you meant that’s 1 point for you.
When I see Verducci on tv, I see a snake. Seriously.
Night Trish!!
I love NYC, but you have to show me more money.
At least jets lost.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 7:18 pm
luis October 9th, 2011 at 7:06 pm
JAP,
But seriously what i think this current team lacks is the good situational hitting that the 90?s teams had, many of the players go to “the all or nothing approach”.
///
luis, we’ve got some very sound hitters coming through the pipeline. JR Murphy is probably the best pure hitter I’ve seen in the system – another guy they likely don’t envision as a catcher, but he has the athleticism to play elsewhere.
The lineup now would not be up for discussion, IMO, if Joe had done what we’ve been saying, here. The series was lost because Alex wasn’t Alex, Tex is between an outmoded swing and one he’s yet to remake, and Swisher is possibly unteachable…they were the cleanup, fifth and sixth hitters.
===================================
JAP,
That’s exactly why i am not worried at all, and said that the future looks bright
I imagine the Yanks will add the three years back on the contract and offer him the yearly salary that they offered Lee. That puts him at around 38 years old…same age as Pettitte was at the end of his last contract.
lol, I just re-read the tweet. “Missing the Bronx already” could be read like he’s mentally opted out.
m,
I think is the contrary…he may opt out, but he is sending a message that we wants to stay
HE not WE
I wish Verducci dead. He’s a notorious Yankee hater. Is that okay?
I read the article by Verducci and he is right on the mark.
The guy is looking more and more like an Adam Dunn type hitter.
A lot of talk about Gardner today. He’s my favorite position player, but I have no illusions when it comes to him.
He had a good ALDS, but some of the talk about him is over the top.
I do keep him until someone spectacular comes along.
I think the pitching staff loves him in the outfield.
He’s fast and can play CF.
As a hitter, I think he’s still evolving. He’ll never hit for much power, but he’s getting better wood on the ball.
Not sure why Tebow wasn’t starting from the beginning of the season. All he’s ever done is make plays with his legs.
J Alfred -
Lupica “protecting” his source?
It sure sounded like Buck to me…he’s been making remarks about both the Yankees and Red Sox all year.
JAP,
That’s exactly why i am not worried at all, and said that the future looks bright
///
Yup, luis, you’ve been very consistent about the lineup. Joe Girardi had a really bad day
.
///
CC is going to surprise folks and age well, that’s what I think.
Keith–FL October 9th, 2011 at 7:05 pm
Verducci on Teixeira below….depressing to read, scary to think about…compared to Adam Dunn and JD Drew…..geez…..
==============================
Glad someone else gets it. I’ve been barking about Tex for almost 2 seasons now. Yet I am an idiot.. I’m sure all of you saw the problem with Tex 2 years ago as well.. oh wait, no you didn’t.. I remember certain posters here saying just how great Tex is doing, and how great of a hitter he is.. Maybe, I didn’t articulate the way Tom V. did.
Sure wish we could get rid of Tex and sign Fielder.. too many no trade clauses.. Cashman, needs to stop offering NTC like they’re nothing…
I never expected Tex to decline this much so quickly, so didn’t even care about the NTC at first.
LOL, Villa. The “essence” remark totally cooked his goose. Classic Buckaroo-ism.
m -
Gardner is worth CC’s weight in gold in the OF.
He has shown glimpses of being able to adjust his swing. He’s just one of those guys who has to work really hard. But he does it. I like him on the Yankees very much.
Lupica too. He had a top 10 New York Sports teams of all time once in an article, and he made no mention of any Yankees team.
I wish that CC had not tweeted anything at all. I’m prepared for an extension/new contract.
GB7,
I feel that 3 years is too long.
He won’t be pitching like his 29 or 31 year old self at the age of 38.
We are going to all hate the contract in its later years.
Not only do I think CC wants to stay, but I think that twitter post is a cry for “let’s get this done quickly”.
My guess is he wants a couple of extra years. Give it to him.
Who barks about baseball at the age of 13?
Well CC If you love NYC so much then don’t opt out, lose some weight, and perform better next October. Already you are the highest paid pitcher in the game but you are not the best.
I don’t know why people can’t give Tex credit for trying to fight through it. He shocked the building by hitting the ball the other way, got more level with his swing on that double on Thursday, and used his wits to work a BB and force in a run.
Verducci is mimicking what others have been saying forever. Yet he’s too stupid to notice the guy has already attempted to make adjustments.
JAP,
Now that you mentioned Murphy, if not catcher what position do you think he would play best??
Trisha,
Again you start in with me when I comment about baseball. Just because you don’t agree doesn’t mean you have to call me “stupid” abd attempt to belittle me. I can type derogatory remarks and go back and forth with you.. I can insult you until the sun comes up.. but you know what, I am not going to stoop to your level tonight and be so immature.
Fielder can’t be very hungry. Not only did he make an out, but, he looks like he just ate a McDonald’s…franchise. He’s heavier than his father ever was and about 5 inches shorter.
Trisha……no worries at all!
…..just glad to be able to talk about the Yankees even though sadly the season is over…..
I’m not ready to give up on Teix just yet. If he comes into 2012 and still can’t bunt/slap the ball to 3rd to score a runner on 3rd, with absolutely no one covering 3rd, then I’ll start to worry.
hamiltonian October 9th, 2011 at 7:31 pm
Man!, you sure have a long list…
I don’t really care what the hell Verducci has to say about Tex or anything else Yankee.
These mainstreamers pick up on stuff years after it’s a fullblown cliche. Who cares what the SOB thinks.
P
Yeah the Tex deal looked good at the momment but it’s starting to look bad. Like you said I don’t think many saw this coming. But his production last year was a bad sign.
Ohh! JAP,
He had a bad day to put it kindly!
luis October 9th, 2011 at 7:34 pm
JAP,
Now that you mentioned Murphy, if not catcher what position do you think he would play best??
///
when I saw him, he played 3B well enough. The other game at C, he had some real issues. I hear he has improved dramatically. Maybe so, but I can’t swear to it, because I can’t watch the kid. He’s got decent foot speed, so he could play a COF spot. He’s got such a mature approach and is such a good hitter. I think he could hit in a ML lineup right now.
Verducci is mimicking what others have been saying forever. Yet he’s too stupid to notice the guy has already attempted to make adjustments.
=============
.. and how many post season games/series has Tex batted in the .100′s ? From what I saw about Tex going the other way the last game was that he was late on the pitches.. as far as the walk.. yup, that was a patient at bat.. regardless, you may say that he is mimicking what others have been saying.. I don’t understand, the bottom line is Tex is getting worse, he’s not getting better. He also said in the beginning of the season that his last year BA was pathetic and worked real hard in the off-season on it.. well, working to make adjustments and having the desired effect of being productive are 2 entirely different things..
I’ll await the criticism, becase I don’t agree with you.
luis October 9th, 2011 at 7:38 pm
Ohh! JAP,
He had a bad day to put it kindly!
.
///
m,
Sabathia’s a smart pitcher. Like Pettitte, he’ll adjust his style, learn ofther pitches. In 4-5 years, that money won’t have the same value as now. I’d give him the same opt-out plan…at 4 years, though. As with Pettitte, Posada and the others, his value goes beyond just the numbers. The common thread with them is the ability to work with the kids and his community projects.
Um, you really are stupid. I hit it right on the head.
This, reject, is what you posted to me.
“the game isn’t about one or the other .. it’s about a TEAM EFFORT .. which is noth pitching and hitting .. DUH .. how do you put runs on the board ?? With offense… i.e. HITTING !
doopy poopy du dudud do doe di doop.”
And then you post this?
“but you know what, I am not going to stoop to your level tonight and be so immature.”
So west coastian to you to take a shot and then cry foul when someone comes back on you!
Just get back in your drawer, would ya?
Trisha,
I’m so sorry. You win. You are a great person and perfect in every way. I am sure you are well loved and cherished outside of the internets, and I admire you.
Have a wonderful evening.
“but you know what, I am not going to stoop to your level tonight and be so immature.”
====
Yup, sure sounds like I am crying. Anyway, enjoy your holiday weekend.
Sabathia might very well opt out, but given the Yankees focus on pitching and Sabathia’s love for New York, it’s still hard to imagine him
ending up anywheregetting this kind of money anywhere else.FTFY Chad.
It doesn’t matter if Verducci said it or anyone else. The fact is that Verducci is 100 % correct. Was there anything non factual in his article ? NO !
You don’t have to like the guy but what he said about Tex was right on the mark. Tex needs to make some serious adjustments next year and step up the production or many will consider him a lost cause.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqy9LLKGWNE
luis, take a look.
pretty, huh?
GB,
Fielder can hit. His homer got out of the park in big hurry. However, players of his size very often do break down as the result of so much joint stresses. That could also be said about CC, but he has a much larger frame helping to support the size.
We have gotten rain at last in my home town. It hadn’t rained at my house since March. Hallelujah!
Verducci? Ask that clown who he picked to win the WS. Why even read him? Ignore him.
Tex contract a waste? I guess being in the top 5 in the AL in HR and RBI isn’t enough? Please let me know when Adam Dunn or JD Drew did that, and get back to me next century when you find out.
The thing I hate most about Verducci is his “innings limit” concept on young arms–it really has screwed up development of quite a few pitchers over the years.
Verducci? Ask that clown who he picked to win the WS. Why even read him? Ignore him.
////
Point.
Since he’s not only already acknowledged he needs to make a change, but has started to make changes, I don’t see the need to bang it home that he needs to make changes. He gets it.
CC–the six man rotation killed him, and he’s too nice to say it. Look at his game log and you will find he started to decline after he started pitching less, not more. Maybe he’s the kind of arm that gets better with more work, kind of like David Wells.
Speaking of Wells, he wasn’t exactly the finest physical specimen, and I recall he pitched quite well into his early 40s, correct? Why can’t CC do the same?
JAP,
WOW!, the kid has such a good and quiet stance and a very good leveled swing.
Tex hit for power, played very good defense, saved a ton of errors, and stayed healthy.
Tex could hit better, but he’s just a punching bag for many people at this point.
Alex is the one who will end up disappointing over the long run. He makes a load more than Tex, and plays a lot less.
This is not about Verducci because I don’t like the guy myself but when someone is coming to the table with facts you can’t deny it.
Yeah so Tex led in HR and RBI’s but in regards to the rest of his stats he has been regressing. He is becoming a feast or famine hitter. I thought Tex would rebound but the fact is that the guy is regressing and you can’t just be a blind homer and deny it.
Pittsburg,
Spot on on CC and Tex
Jeremy October 9th, 2011 at 8:01 pm
With all due respect….In this site we’ve been banging that drum for quite a while, he has realized that he needs to adjust his lefthanded swing. Verducci is just “lloviendo sobre mojado”,
meaning that he is just singing an old song that everybody knows it, and trying to sell it as a new hit
# luis October 9th, 2011 at 8:01 pm
JAP,
WOW!, the kid has such a good and quiet stance and a very good leveled swing.
///
Absolutely. & the way he’s able to really lengthen his arms and drive the pitch. He had some really long at bats when I saw him, really knows the strike zone & what to lay off of.
m….Texeria will be gone and Alez will still be pulling in close to 30 million……Bottom line, no Texeria no playoffs since 2007.
…………
m,
I think Arod still has a couple of good season in him, maybe not like 07 or anything close to that but 290/30-35/110-120 RBI’s is doable
Verducci is just “lloviendo sobre mojado”,
meaning that he is just singing an old song that everybody knows it, and trying to sell it as a new hit
//
luis, LOFL. You bring a great flavor to this site!
JAP,
So he has good pitch recognition?, can he hit offspeed stuff as well?
2012 Changes:
1. Pick up Swisher option year and trade him.
2. Sign Melky Cabrerra to a 3 year deal. Put him in right field.
3. Up the annual value of the remaining 4 years of CC’s contract. No extensions period. A clause for the NYY to opt out if his weight exceeds a BMI of 29, then the next year 28, then the next year 27. Certainly fair considering how obese CC is.
4. Offer CJ Wilson a three year deal.
5. Bring up a kid for the 5th spot in the rotation.
6. Sign Garcia for a one year deal.
7. Re-sign Andrew Jones to a one year deal. Expand his role if he shows up to camp 20 pounds lighter.
It’s no coincidence that the year we got C, Tex & AJ we won our first WS in 9 years.
The thing is, with the Yankees and Red Sox, and all NY and Boston teams.
The difference between the 2 are ACCOUNTABILITY.
There is no accountability.
Ben Jarvis GreenEllis of the Patriots has never fumbled the ball in his NFL career. Why? Because he knows if he fumbles the ball, he wont see the field again for a while.
Tom Brady just threw his FIRST Career Red Zone Interception at home today!!! Can you believe that???
Eli Manning just threw a Red Zone Interception TD today to cost us a game at home. And that’s probably the 20th time he’s done it in his career…to cost us a game.
Eli Manning is allowed to comfortably get away with however many interceptions he wants.
Joe Torre was allowed to sit back and manage our team into the ground for years, batting Alex 8th in 2006, and he just continued returning.
Terry Francona missed the playoffs in 2010, then missed the playoffs in 2011, and he’s out of there. It didnt matter that he won them 2 World Series. He was gone.
On the flip side, do you know who gets taken to task and held accountable? Jorge Posada. One of the most classy Yankees of our generation, 5 World Series titles, a leader on the field and a presence in the clubhouse for 2 decades. He gets ratted out to the media by Brian Cashman and sold down the river, when he was the one underutilized by the manager. Jorge wanted to catch this year, wanted to help the team, but Girardi wouldnt utilize the versatility, catching Jorge even once a month.
But Nick Swisher, a guy who needs to be held accountable, isnt.
A 5 time World Series champion is held accountable, but Nick Swisher isnt. That says all you need to know about the New York Yankees and all NY teams.
# luis October 9th, 2011 at 8:11 pm
JAP,
So he has good pitch recognition?, can he hit offspeed stuff as well?
///
I only saw him for for a weekend series, but I didn’t need to see more to know he’s a real good one. Laid off the slop and waited for his pitch.
Thanks JAP for both posts
Melkmanisin hotlanta……I like your Melky swap out for Swisher…..
***There is no accountability in New York. There is in Boston.
I know that Tex had a down season, but I doubt seriously that he is the next Dunn. Dunn hit .140 for the White Sox. Do you really see Tex doing that? I don’t. Verducci is a clown.
hamiltonian October 9th, 2011 at 8:16 pm
So what do you propouse??
So what youre saying, Melky, is to do nothing to improve the team????
Because CJ wilson isnt signing for 3 years.
Andruw Jones and Freddy Garcia, we caught lightning in a bottle once, whats the likelihood of twice.
Bring up a kid for the 5th spot, like in 2008, when Hughes and Kennedy failed miserably.
And bring back Melky? Who knows, I dont know anything about him besides his 20 HRs this year. But anybody would be better than Swisher. A blind down syndrome autistic 10 year old would be better than Swisher, and he’d certainly have more class than Swish
“Verducci is a clown”
hard to hear truer words!!
Huh? Swisher for Melky? The Royals aren’t doing that. They want pitching. Melky’s risen above the kind of flotsam he once may have commanded. The kid hit .300 from both sides of the plate, had 201 hits on the season, and was a doubles machine. Should have laid off the saber sauce, viewed his OBP challenges as something to work on, focused on the bat potential, & kept him where he belonged.
That said, I’m not giving them Jose Ramirez for him. & I don’t think they’re taking David Phelps…
# luis October 9th, 2011 at 8:20 pm
Thanks JAP for both posts
///
My pleasure. The farm is loaded!
isnt melky a FA?
I propose nothing, luis. Because there’s nothing to propose. The mismanagement of every NY team is evident, and there’s nothing that can be done about it.
Look at the Mets, for god’s sakes. Pathetic.
Im shocked the Giants had enough sense and acccountability to fire D Coordinator Bill Sheridan a couple years ago. Unfortunately, Tom Coughlin remains, when Tom Coughlin didnt win us anything. Steve Spagnuolo’s defense won us Super Bowl XLII.
Melky would be great in RF, but he’s not a free agent until AFTER next season. They’ll want way too much for him.
“1. Pick up Swisher option year and trade him.”
Not opposed to this. I like Swisher, but the way he disappears in the postseason is alarming.
“2. Sign Melky Cabrerra to a 3 year deal. Put him in right field.”
I don’t know. This year could have been a fluke for Melky. Plus, I like Cano better when Melky’s not around.
“3. Up the annual value of the remaining 4 years of CC’s contract. No extensions period. A clause for the NYY to opt out if his weight exceeds a BMI of 29, then the next year 28, then the next year 27. Certainly fair considering how obese CC is.”
First of all, CC’s BMI is already higher than 29. You’re asking him to lose some major weight. Not sure what affect that would have on his pitching. For all we know, he’s the pitcher he is BECAUSE of his weight. I would alter his contract before he opts out.
“4. Offer CJ Wilson a three year deal.”
Pass. I’m tired of these huge mega deals for pitchers.
“5. Bring up a kid for the 5th spot in the rotation.”
This makes your 4th item moot. With CC, AJ, Nova, Hughes and this 5th spot, where is Wilson fitting in?
“6. Sign Garcia for a one year deal.”
Again, where is he fitting into the rotation if they sign Wilson?
“7. Re-sign Andrew Jones to a one year deal. Expand his role if he shows up to camp 20 pounds lighter.”
I’m not opposed to this, although I’d rather have Damon or Matsui back.
# mick October 9th, 2011 at 8:27 pm
isnt melky a FA?
///
No. He was before this season. Alex begged them to sign him, but they have some sort of phobia about him corrupting Cano and didn’t like is on base skills.
Melky needs to come home to da Bronx plain and simple. He is money compared to Swishilicious in the playoffs. Melky has gone to the desert and paid for his sins. Cashman, get on it!
I like Cano better when Melky’s not around.
///
Melky made Cano hit .342, didn’t he?
hamiltonian October 9th, 2011 at 8:27 pm
Ok, i see where you are coming from, i don’t agree with it…but wanted to hear what your suggestions would be.
This playoff series loss against the Tigers may not be Girardi’s fault, BUT….
Girardi did not put his team in the best position to win. He put them in a position to fail. Continuing to allow Swisher to butcher ABs, while keeping Montero on the bench is, as SJ44 would say, a fire-able offense.
He kept the same lineup game after game, no thought of moving Jorge up in the lineup, or Swisher down. Just the same decisions over and over.
But if Girardi loses in the 1st round next year (if we get to the playoffs), will he get fired? No. Because there’s no accountability. The fans and management alike will say, Joe won us a World Series in 2009. Yadda Yadda Yadda.
But they wont realize that Joe managed differently in the 2009 playoffs than he’s managed these past 2 years.
hotlanta, not happening. Hadn’t you better adjust your username? The kid is in KC now.
That 8:30 post is for you, luis
Although, in 2009, he allowed Game 2 of the ALCS to come to a situation in which Freddy Guzman was batting behind Alex in the 9th inning against Fuentes with 2 outs in the inning. If the Angels were smart, they would have walked Alex, struck out Guzman on 3 pitches, and had a split. You cant allow your team to be in a position where Guzman is batting behind Alex, with nobody on the bench, with 2 outs in the final inning of a game.
“Melky made Cano hit .342, didn’t he?”
I think that Robbie is more focused now. Is that because Melky’s gone? I don’t know, but why chance it?
Thanks Hamiltonean,
I didn’t like the way Girardi managed the team as well, but i think he is going to learn from this.
I also understand your frustration, but you have to realize that wether we like it or not, we are in the middle of a transition….just let it play out, i am sure that you are going to be alot happier once the transition is over.
Laura, please.
oswalt has a mutual option @16m and they can buy it out for 2…he might be a FA, Yanks could bite at.
mick,
thanks, but no thanks
mick, I think Oswalt said he wouldn’t come to New York. Screw him.
Luis,
Girardi isnt going to learn from it. Our guys never do. Joe Torre never learned, after he lost his way. Tom Coughlin still hasnt learned anything. Mike D’Antoni failed to get the Knicks to ATTEMPT a last second shot in 3 games of this years playoffs sweep. Mr. Offense himself didnt get his team to ATTEMPT a shot to win or tie the game 3 times. 3 TIMES in 4 games. And he’ll continue to stick around. He has no defense, never has, never will, but he’ll continue to stick around.
Transition? Why are we in a transition? We have a star studded lineup, with superstar Cano, and budding superstar Montero. We have CC, and possibly Nova, along with maybe Hughes or Chamberlain, and a good bullpen.
We have a farm system stocked with talent, talent that can be used to acquire star pieces in championship runs. Our $200 million payroll is enough to buy us the playoffs each year. From that point on, the playoffs are a crapshoot.
We also have Nova. I love the kid, Nova, but as Jerkface has pointed out before, Nova is all smoke and mirrors. His stats are not impressive. He misses too few bats to continue to succeed. He is at his highest value right now. We could, POTENTIALLY, POTENTIALLY, use Nova to headline a package for Felix. In a fair world, that is, where Jack Z isnt intent upon screwing us.
JAP
I just don’t feel the urgency anymore from the fans or the players in the playoffs.
2009 they were on a mission.
The 4 other WS champs were deeper and better teams.
I just see more of the same in the future. Teams are younger and hungrier and don’t have to be as talented to beat us.
What do you say?
Back in the day, David Wells coming off his excellent 1998 season, we traded his ass for Roger Clemens. The 1998-99 Yankees werent content with David Wells, we went out and got the best pitcher in the game, Roger Clemens.
But Im 100% sure that Nova is untouchable. And evne though I love Nova, and what he did for our team this year, I think the fact that Nova is untouchable is heinous
CC
Wilson
Nova
AJ/Garcia 4th starter/long man
NYY pitching prospect.
Hughes go to the bullpen permanently
We have a farm system stocked with talent, talent that can be used to acquire star pieces in championship runs. Our $200 million payroll is enough to buy us the playoffs each year. From that point on, the playoffs are a crapshoot.
==========
You just answered your question yourself, the playoffs are a crapshoot, anything can happen, the objective is to get to the PS, anything from there is gravy.
By the way, we don’t need to exchange prospects for stars…we need to build the core of the team from within, and complement it with good FA agents signings. That’s the formula that brought us so much success.
Do we know the full extent of Nova’s injury? We might have seen the best we will ever see from him?
Grade 1 strain that will heal in the offseason, nothing bad
You don’t know what Nova or Freddy will give next year, as well as Hughes.
CC and Aj will be the innings eaters, so we are strting from square 1 again next year.
CJ Wilson will be a Yankee at the right price.
Nova is untouchable because of the state of the rotation.
The Yanks are already short on starting pitching, so it doesn’t seem like a wise idea to trade a very cost controlled young starting pitcher who helped this team win a lot of games this season.
He doesn’t have to be an elite starter to have a long future with this team.
Until the young arms on the farm with higher upside are ready and contributing, there is no reason to move Nova.
They need him.
it makes sense CC+AJ=CJ, get it?
The alphabet staff.
mick October 9th, 2011 at 8:50 pm
JAP
I just don’t feel the urgency anymore from the fans or the players in the playoffs.
2009 they were on a mission.
The 4 other WS champs were deeper and better teams.
I just see more of the same in the future. Teams are younger and hungrier and don’t have to be as talented to beat us.
What do you say?
///
mick, I don’t buy this narrative. I think you get into murky waters when you start throwing around words like “hunger.”
They got beat. I’ve gone on record here a million times over as to why I think that happened. The manager didn’t manage. Never seen a team with such a deep bench so neglect that bench, even in the team’s most needful hour. There’s nothing you or I can do about that. Baseball is much harder to analyze from a “momentum” or “hunger” point of view. Other sports, IMO, lend themselves to that kind of thinking to some degree, but even they are suspect. How does hunger apply to a guy who is trying what is habitual for him but which fails him because his technique is poor and he doesn’t know how to correct it? What has this to do with his hunger? A guy just misses a pitch…how does this have anything to do with desire?
If Montero is substituted for Swisher, and he hits a lazy fly ball that scores the runner and ties the game, and the Yankees go on to win, are we discussing how this team needs to be more like the 90s editions?
The manager needed to press some buttons and he just didn’t. To me, it was the difference between playing Saturday or going home. You asked.
Luis, there is a mix of everything. You dont have to keep every prospect. Or players off your major league roster. Like I said, David Wells was traded in the 98 offseason for Roger Clemens. I hope that the Yankees at least explore the possibility of trading Nova in a package for a stud.
The problem is, the playoffs are a crapshoot because of the 5 game Division Series. The best team doesnt always move on. Whether it be because of umpiring, bad luck, bad play, or managerial decisions…
You dont just aim to get to the playoffs and be content if your manager screws your team, or the umpires screw your team, you MUST have accountability. Just because the playoffs are a crapshoot…you dont fail to hold players and managers accountable, or try to better your team in the offseason.
Nova is part of the starting rotation, but it wouldnt matter if he was traded in a package for a stud pitcher, like Felix.
However, I know that, or any trade like it, will never come about.
mick October 9th, 2011 at 8:50 pm
JAP
I just don’t feel the urgency anymore from the fans or the players in the playoffs.
2009 they were on a mission.
The 4 other WS champs were deeper and better teams.
I just see more of the same in the future. Teams are younger and hungrier and don’t have to be as talented to beat us.
What do you say?
=====================
Some fans still are in that same mindframe, the problem is that the situation is completely different than in 09. The core of the team is old, and you are in the middle of a changing of the guard process, that takes time.
Once the pieces are in place, this team is going to dominate like no other can or will. The thing is that some fans know this, so we are willing to go through the growing pains and give time to accomplish the objective while we have fun in seasons like the one we just had.
Nova is untouchable because he’s good. His development of the slider has made him a much more effective pitcher, one who is going to get a lot of groundouts because of his sinking action and Ks because of that slider. He’s a very good young starter whose only begun to show what he may become.
For god’s sake, Felix is an arm injury waiting to happen. He’s young, but he’s got a ton of innings in his rearview. Stay away.
jap i see your point and agree but there was no magic, another vague word but i have seen it on different teams. you can’t pinpoint this all on girardi either. tex, swish and alex were the culprits.
to say it’s because he didn’t use montero is iffy. just didn’t get a great feeling from them .
jeter looked down in the dugout at times , posada showed the most heart of all of them.
Trading Nova in a package in exchange for a “stud” still leaves you short on pitching because you’re still replacing one pitcher with another.
You still need 5 starters, actually more like 7-9 starters, to get through a season.
If St. Louis wins tomorrow against Milwaukee, will they they be the hungier team? What about if Detroit beats Texas?
The core of the team is old, and you are in the middle of a changing of the guard process, that takes time.
=================================================
there is no flexibility here for 4-5 years when jeter,tex and arod are on the way out.
who will replace them, they are your future?
We’ll see on Nova. I love the kid. I hope he is the real deal and not a one season wonder. But sometimes, you have to give up something to get something, and if you want to better your team, you have to explore every option. You cant close off a player like Nova as untouchable. CC Sabathia, yes. You cant let him go. Cano, yes. Nova, no. In a deal that could better our team, Nova is not untouchable
sometimes the “hungrier ” team is the one that is younger and has more energy, as well as their fans. it’s impossible to measure but it exists.
The Red Sox thought they were making their team better when they replaced Beltre and Martinez with Gonzalez and Crawford.
Things didn’t quite turn out that way.
Spent a TON more money and still missed the playoffs.
Sometimes it just takes a slight adjustment to make a dramatic impact. I believe moving Posada up in the lineup would have made a critical difference. Alex wasn’t in the swing of things, and the manager had to know that. Yet he did nothing to help his lineup compensate. He also had a couple of opportunities to pinch hit for two guys who were just not going to get hits. He didn’t.
Im fully aware of that GF, but Im not sure we can depend on another really good season from Nova next year. Almost as if he’s still “uncertain.” Especially with the injury sustained in Game 5. Ill repeat one last time, I think he’s a great kid, and he pitched really well this year, especially given he’s a rookie. Im just not sure he can continue like this past year, given all of his statistics.
The Rays were “hungry” about a week ago. Now, they are watching football like everyone else.
The Red Sox’ problem was that neither Crawford nor Gonzalez are pitchers.
the problem is that there is really not much out there to deal away a Nova.
the hidden gems like oneill or brosius are either a lucky get or the result of a scout who sees intangibles.
scouting seems like a lost art.
Can we honestly put the blame on Gonzalez and Crawford over Beltre/Martinez.
Let’s take into account their pitching in the month of September, their injury to Buchholz, and Lackey being Lackey.
We got consistent pitching from Garcia all year, Nova too. Obviously, CC is CC, and AJ is AJ, and Colon filled in nicely for a while.
GF, that’s a good point. They were going to be a team of destiny. Until they weren’t.
They probaby still led the league in runs this year, GF, as you pointed out earlier that our superb offense was 2nd in the league.
Hopefully this puts an end to the Yanks offering opt-outs in their contracts.
If you have to put that in there in order to entice a player, just move on.
Hunger or even desperation can only carry you so far granted but to say it doesn’t exist is not true.
hamiltonian October 9th, 2011 at 8:59 pm
Good points:
1) I think the team is going to attempt to get better in the offseason without sacrifizing the future or the finantial flexiblity
2) Firing Girardi, for messing up in a short series is not the way to go IMO, he handled the season very well, in fact, if he doesn’t handle it the way he did, we may not get to the playoffs altogether. I think he has a case for manager of the year.
3))Cashman has done a wonderful job, so you can’t fire him either
4) Maybe the hitting coach for failing to teach situational hitting better, but i must say that i am happy with how Long has changed Grandy.
5) The players have longterm contracts, so are you going to eat those?, the only one you can get rid of him is Swisher, and i have gone sour on him as well, but i rather wait for next year to get Kemp, so probably i keep him as well.
I never said Nova is the second coming of Dwight Gooden.
But the kid helped them win a lot of games this season and surpassed all expectations. Since the Yanks are short on pitching as it is, I don’t see why anyone would be pushing to move him when it’s the Yanks who needs him most right now.
And I don’t know of any teams out there falling all over themselves to trade the Yanks an elite starter.
The pitching fell apart and they had no reserve guys to pick up the slack.
We actually had Adam Warren down on the farm ready to come up and pitch had we needed him. Warren isn’t elite, but if he were a Boston farmhand in AAA, he’d be spun as a great arm with an unbeatable great slider/fb combo. In contrast to what they actually have, Warren would be a star.
I never thought TB was a team of destiny.
Just a team that would knock off the sox …
mick October 9th, 2011 at 9:12 pm
Hunger or even desperation can only carry you so far granted but to say it doesn’t exist is not true.
///
It’s not that it doesn’t exist, it’s that it’s improbable if not impossible for you or anyone to measure it’s presence or lack of it in a baseball team. There are more tangible reasons why they lost that series.
You can blame Crawford because he had a horrific season.
Gardner had a better season than Crawford and cost less than 1/140th of the price.
Headlines moves don’t always turn out the way they want.
Mick,
Jeter, Arod and Tex are going to eventually take lesser roles. The main changes inthe short term is Montero, the B’s to anchor the roa\tation
you take a team that makes it to he playoffs every year and compare the feeling around that team compared to the 4 in there now and tell me it’s the same, it just isn’t and the crowd reflects it.
“Some fans still are in that same mindframe, the problem is that the situation is completely different than in 09. The core of the team is old, and you are in the middle of a changing of the guard process, that takes time.”
___________________________________
I don’t buy this.
Unless you want to replace “the core of the team is old” with “Alex Rodriguez is old.”
Derek Jeter is old but he’s as capable of performing at a high level as almost any shortstop in baseball is.
I don’t really see how this is a “team in transition.”
Realistically, they’re locked in at pretty much every position on the field.
That’s what scares me. There isn’t much room for this team to improve, at all.
Yet they still have made a habit of losing in the first round, year, after year, after year.
Then you start changing the outfield with the arrival of Kemp, Heathcott and Murphy.
St. Louis was a team of destiny until about the 5th inning today.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 9:13 pm
The pitching fell apart and they had no reserve guys to pick up the slack.
———–
And Ray Charles could have seen that coming a mile way. They had no depth and guys like Dice-K, Beckett, and Lackey were huge question marks.
Lester was the only sure thing and Buchholz had only done it for one season.
luis, the fans should be thrilled we have a triumvirate so strong in Banuelos, Betances and Montero to lead this team into the next decade.
Jesus wasn’t used in the series against Detroit. Talk about mismanagement by Girardi. Also, as others have said, moving Posada higher up in the order, say position number 5, changes the outcome of the series? So odd that someone so intelligent like Girardi, a catcher that most likely preached to his pitchers to make adjustments as the game went along, doesn’t make adjustments as the action unfolds??????????????
haven’t any of you played the game, at any level, where you knew you had the better team but could see you were going to lose…sort of a self-fulfilling prophesy.
to say it doesn’t exist b/c you can’t measure it, is denial.
Sometimes I’ve almost paradoxically wondered if the Yankees would make it further in the playoffs if they were worse on paper.
I just don’t see how teams that run out lineups with Don Kelly, Ramon Santiago, Austin Jackson, et. al., could have a chance at beating them.
It would be one thing if it happened once or twice but they’ve been embarrassed in the first round year after year after year by inferior teams in the first round.
It goes against my entire foundation in baseball knowledge and my gut instinct to write off anything related to “intangibles” as flat out nonsense.
But I wonder if things would be any different right now if guys like Chris Dickerson and Eduardo Nunez got regular playing time in the ALDS.
Re: Montero, if we keep him.
You have 2 catchers, Mauer and Wieters. Mauer’s career has been in a downward spiral, Wieters, I think has actually been getting better offensively. Mauer was once the best hitter in the game. Not anymore.
Montero has the ability to be the best hitter in baseball. I dont know whether or not Montero could or will become a good, or great defensive catcher. He could, he might.
Despite the fact that “C” is a subpar offensive position, and having Montero catching would be a huge offensive upgrade for our team, do we want Montero catching, taking the physical battering day after day, the concussions, the hand injuries, and becoming like Mauer.
intangibles is the right word, things you cannot measure, the yanks did not have the look, body language, chemistry, call it what you like , of a winner.
sometimes you can just feel it…
JAP,
And the likes of Murphy,Sanchez, Williams,Marshall, Bichette not far behind
GF, they couldn’t see it coming because they had people convinced that Michael Bowden and Louis Doubront were their Betances and Banuelos. Doubront may develop into something useful, although his control isn’t good, but the myth that they had all these ML ready arms gave their supporters a false sense of security. I’ve seen this Ranaudo live whom they’re talking up. A poster here, Tyler, played against the guy. He’s got a flat fastball and walks a lot of guys. Yet he’s the latest “elite” arm in their system.
I remember how much Josh Reddick was talked up a couple of years ago. Lars Andersson was the prototypical left-handed power hitting first baseman. Sure, that’s why they coughed up the farm for AGon. The Red Sox did themselves a disservice to allow the myth of their farm to be disseminated so freely. The prognosticators didn’t do them any favors by giving them that absurb best team ever tag. I really think that helped do them in. They couldn’t possibly have lived up to any of that.
Crawford gave Boston the same thing Steve Kemp gave the Yankees. Crawford has 6 more years to give something back.
clemens, cone, wells, el duque, key, andy they are your horses.
cc needs help, he can’t do it by himself.
even the unit had schilling.
luis, yes, and don’t forget Anderson Feliz
. He’s the 2B with remarkable athletic ability who was hitting bombs at Instructs whom I saw down in Lakewood on that same trip I saw Murphy, Sanchez and Flores. (we can’t forget Flores, either). Feliz is outrageous, and a switch hitter.
If Chavez retires, I wouldn’t mind the Yankees taking a chance on Casey Blake. He’s a good veteran, solid defender who could play 50 or so games. He also has decent postseason numbers and is the type of hitter that can get a runner in from third with less than two outs. Could probably sign him relatively cheaply on a one-year deal with an option for a second.
G-C, that AJax played a nasty CF against us.
tucker, I’d rather see Laird go back and forth from 3B and 1B. He made some great plays at first behind AJ, who commented on how good he was that day. (Against Boston, a game I attended).
If they are thinking of him as a talented sub, that’s the way to go. They also have Nunez.
I hope Heathcott can shake off his shoulder troubles and come back strong. He’s like the forgotten man.
mick, we actually did have a lot of “chemistry” this year. Goes to show how one or two bad AB’s can kill “chemistry.”
JR is a beast, btw.
Happy Birthday, John Lennon.
Crawford may not be a great fenway fit, but I expect him to have a bounce back. He certainly won’t be that bad again. He can’t pitch for them, though.
our staff was not deep and most would not want to go back to the PS with the same thing next year.
once they got past cc det had no fear
garcia and nova the 2nd time were vulnerable, they knew they could beat them.
to blame it all on girardi is ludicrous.
aj was our best pitcher.
hughes let us down big time and of course we would have won if we had andy.
Laird’s D has really improved. Heathcott was really killing it before the shoulder started acting up again. I pray that shoulder injury isn’t chronic. Kid has so much upside.
NYC vs. an extra $30+ MM = home is where you hang your hat.
Yankeefem, I posted a video of a JR double earlier in here. Watch him extend his arms to really drive the pitch. How soon until he’s in Trenton, do you think?
mick, we actually did have a lot of “chemistry” this year. Goes to show how one or two bad AB’s can kill “chemistry.”
===================================
yes we did in the reg season.
Yankfem, amen on heathcott. I hope Santana’s career isn’t in jeopardy, either.
G-C,
Probably Nunez was a better offensive option than Arod with all those nagging injuries and lack of plate appearances.
And as Jap said, Ajax played a hell of a CF robbing several hits from the offense.
OK, so Killer B’s should be starting SWB’s opening two games I am hoping. Both in Lehigh Valley April 5, 6. Yanks open on the road at TB the 6th, so no conflict. lol, I am already mapping out next season.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 9th, 2011 at 9:34 pm
tucker, I’d rather see Laird go back and forth from 3B and 1B. He made some great plays at first behind AJ, who commented on how good he was that day. (Against Boston, a game I attended).
If they are thinking of him as a talented sub, that’s the way to go. They also have Nunez.
——
I can see Laird as the way to go. I remember his good defensive plays at 1B. Give the kid a chance.
cash is prolly salivating over cj wilson as we speak
too bad but he is the best fa out there and there will be a bidding war w/ boston
how can you pass ? why would say, a Buerhle instead of Garcia or Colon make us any better next year?
Freddy will also get an offer from boston and his junk would stand us on our heads.
mick, you are being profoundly result oriented. They knew they could beat Nova? Nova, who suffered a forearm injury and had to be removed in the second inning? C’mon.
Pruf, re: Ravel, surgery went well, so let’s hope rehab follows. I think of Morales and cringe.
Lockdown, I guess it depends on how they view him. If they want him playing every day, they won’t sacrifice that. But I’m guessing they see him as some kind of very good sub. Same deal with Nunez. If the two of them can play infield and outfield, that really gives the team flexibility, especially as our aging guys need to take days off.
Nova is good but he didn’t have it in the 1st inning and is not in the same class as the starters they had for their 5 rings.
yankeefem, I also think of David Adams.
He didn’t have “it” – he was injured. He tried to pitch through it. Just an incredible stroke of ill luck.
how do you know he was injured in the 1st?
Pruf, poor poor Adams. He still has pain, and wonder if he will ever come back the same.
Because he couldn’t get the ball down.
mick October 9th, 2011 at 9:45 pm
Nova is good but he didn’t have it in the 1st inning and is not in the same class as the starters they had for their 5 rings.
=========================
He can be as good as Petitte, Key and El Duque, he is just a rookie, but with the sinking action and the slider as a swing and miss pitch, plus the moxie he has on the mound, he can be as good as any of those
Nova’s bad luck could have happened to anyone in the past but didn’t. The pitchers I mentioned never came up with injuries in big games and that’s how you get rings.
Our staff was paltry at best and that’s what wins series.
To blame it all on Girardi is ludicrous and convenient.
When your 4-6 hitters hit like that, you are going to lose.
Who would you blame if Montero didn’t come through if he were used more?
Sounds like you are being result oriented.
luis, I tend to agree with all of that. He has the demeanor, too, as you point out. If he doesn’t get hurt…
He can be as good as Petitte, Key and El Duque, he is just a rookie, but with the sinking action and the slider as a swing and miss pitch, plus the moxie he has on the mound, he can be as good as any of those
==========
Exactly. He can be. But he isn’t yet.
Except Hughes pitched great. Only CC coughed. Everyone else was nails. And C only gave up on run, but in a 2-0 game, it was big. Pitching was not the problem.
Our pitching was good. The inability to score more than 3 runs is on the offense.
Who would you blame if Montero didn’t come through if he were used more?
Sounds like you are being result oriented.
//
Result oriented? How can I be result oriented when there was no result because the kid never got tapped on the shoulder? I’m being theoretical, and I’m talking in probabilities as I see them. You’re deciding that they were bound to figure Nova out, and throwing out that the guy got hurt. It’s kind of hard to turn your arm over to get good sink if your forearm is strained. He said it hurt and it was hard to pitch with it.
Time for Breaking Bad
Lockdown, our pitching was good, but that’s not the dedicated narrative.
I said it after Game 1. Move Posada up and you win the series.
Nobody has mentioned the loss of Pettitte. That’s all I’m saying. His loss was immeasurable. He will be hard to replace. He would have found a way to win game 2.
mick, we lost because of our bats.
Pitching wins these series, everybody knows that.
mick October 9th, 2011 at 9:56 pm
He can be as good as Petitte, Key and El Duque, he is just a rookie, but with the sinking action and the slider as a swing and miss pitch, plus the moxie he has on the mound, he can be as good as any of those
==========
Exactly. He can be. But he isn’t yet.
//
You’re making a false correlation again. Because he’s not Andy Pettitte yet, doesn’t mean he can’t get the Detroit Tigers out now. That’s what you’re trying to get us to infer, but that doesn’t add up.
The facts are, when he was healthy, he beat the Tigers. In fact, his runs given up were inherited by Ayala. If you get great sink on your pitches and your arm is hurt so that you can’t really get the results you normally do, and you get hit because of it, the conclusion isn’t that you don’t optimally have the ability to get that team out. You’ve done it when you were not injured. Ignoring the injury as a factor in the result is just unintelligent.
verlander, scherzer, benoit, valverde beat us, give them credit.
Yea, but you can’t just throw a truism at something: “pitching wins” and ignore the particulars of a given series. They pitched well enough to win. They were in every game, their pitching kept them close. Winning a series isn’t incumbent on pitching at the exclusion of hitting. They didn’t get hits with RISP. That was their downfall.
No problem giving them credit. You’re all over the place. I told you, we got beat.
They didn’t get hits with RISP. That was their downfall.
=============================
Because we were outpitched.
Unlikely, if he got hurt enough to affect his cutter grip.
We pitched well enough to win.
I wasn’t overly impressed with Doug Fister. My impression I came away with was the manager flubbed it, that Fister and Benoit were hittable if the manager had replaced Swisher or Martin with Montero, and/or had moved Posada up in the order. Posada had two hits already in the game.
You want to conclude that Fister was really crisp and we couldn’t hit him, that’s your prerogative. I did not see that from my seat.
LockDown says:
October 9, 2011 at 10:00 pm
Time for Breaking Bad
———-
Just started watching that. It took me about 5 days to watch 3.5 seasons. Great show. Like a 30 hour Tarantino movie.
This series would have been over in 4 if we had won game 2.
That’s about our pitching.
Detroit pitched very well, granted. But we didn’t take advantage of their pitchers’ mistakes because of some extraordinarily bad AB’s.
Verlander had stretches where he pitched well, but he also coughed up a lead and allowed us to tie the game, 4-4. Hardly an ace performance where the guy shut it down, wire to wire.
Good as he is, Verlander lucked out that his game was moved from Yankee Stadium to Comerica, where he still allowed four runs.
mick October 9th, 2011 at 10:13 pm
This series would have been over in 4 if we had won game 2.
That’s about our pitching.
///
Probably, but the manager inexplicably brought in Ayala. That’s been beaten to death. They even said the Yankee FO was unhappy with that decision. Freddy pitched well, he kept us in inning after inning, waiting for the offense to assert itself. Scherzer had one of his good games, but we were still within striking distance.
Yankeefem, I’ll be at the two kids’ starts at Lehigh Valley also.
We’ve got six months to remember and forget about this loss.
mick, pitching wins; we all know that. But did we pitch good enough to win, sure. & don’t even get me started about the Ayala game. And Valverde did not pitch well in Game 2. It was pouring. I was standing on field level right behind the plate, and you could barely see the ball. So, let’s not deify their pitching. They pitched well, but our batters sure helped them. Look at the game 5 AB’s by batters like Martin when Benoit didn’t have his good command and he was swinging away without any plate discipline at all in spite of Benoit’s spotty command. Anyway, no sense rehashing but you are fitting the narrative to the result.
ayala let in the 5th run , we lose 4-3 not 5-3…we weren’t hitting remember?
No, because in that game, he actually did things like pinch hit Andruw Jones, who was able to drive in Posada from 3B with an opposite field flyout. You are down by two, a world of difference entering the ninth than down by three.
we can’t go into an alds next year with the same staff.
that’s why they will go after cj wilson
Big difference between 5-3 and 4-3, especially how you approach at home. And Jones actually could have had a hit there. Game of inches. Water under the bridge though. Your points are generic ones, sorry.
Guys,
It’s been an awesome Sunday chat. Have a good one all.
but as you said they didn’t hit in the clutch, which is right, so that game was lost
CJ in a long contract isn’t a good idea. He will block better pitchers, like Banuelos.
mick says:
October 9, 2011 at 10:24 pm
we can’t go into an alds next year with the same staff.
that’s why they will go after cj wilson
————
By staff do you mean lineup?
Seriously do you people have families, activities, watch movies, read a good book now and then ? Rambling on and on about the same old crap over and over and over again.
Your wife’s, husband’s, girlfriends, boyfriends and children must just love you being super glued to your keyboards.
this lineup is inflexible with the exception of montero
mick, who are you considering the same stuff. CC? Hughes in or out and which Hughes? Freddy? A year older and better Nova? Playoff AJ? Why not?
staff, not stuff lol.
mick October 9th, 2011 at 10:04 pm
Pitching wins these series, everybody knows that.
++++++++
Then why didn’t Tampa Bay win? Their pitching is very good.
This Pitching wins stuff is wrong. Yes, the pitching is important, but if they don’t score runs they lose.
Look at the series scores. They were close games for those that were losses. Most of that wasn’t even opportunity, just lack of hitting with RISP.
Know what really wins in the post season? A good balance of both pitching and offense and defense. When the Yankees went into the series, Rodriguez wasn’t hitting. Teixeira wasn’t hitting, Swisher wasn’t hitting, Granderson wasn’t hitting, Gardner wasn’t hitting. Posada and Cano were the offense, and that isn’t enough to get it done.
You can have a pitcher keep the score to 2 runs, but if your team can’t scratch across more than that, they lose.
The pitching was decent enough to keep them in every game of this post season series. Their offense let them down, and it wasn’t because the pitching was all that. It was because the offense had been on a holliday and hadn’t come back.
We lost because the bats didn’t come through. The Pitching did it’s job for the most part ( except Ayala ). I’m going to repeat myself one more time: The lack of situational hitting killed us…Part of that was the inablility of Girardi to use the bench in Key at bats ( In game five for me it was Martin’s in the 4th against fister with one out ).
If Maddon were managing this lineup would be very flexible. Heckuva bench too.
exactly. it’s iffy. they need a bona fide 2
You can have a pitcher keep the score to 2 runs, but if your team can’t scratch across more than that, they lose.
===============
Maybe because their pitching was better.
Like who? Fister who we rocked in game 1? Cliff Lee? What is a bona fide #2 and what does that guarantee?
Yankee Baseball is over this year until they sign Cashman or his replacement and The World Series is over. Unreal.
you wouldn’t want lee as your 1 or 2?
i know philly lost but to say we don’t need better pitching is absurd.
so if it wasn’t that their pitching was better than it has to be that arod and tex let us down
maybe their pitching had their #’s?
mick, back to your original point; it wasn’t our pitching that lost this series. It was our hitting approach, our lack of hitting with RISP, our bullheadedness in not pinch hitting in critical situations.
As for improved pitching, what is your solution, as I came into this discussion late? To sign CJ or bust?
maybe we choked…
it’s all moot…we lost b/c alex, tex and swish stunk…
9-57 what is that? .150 something
No doubt pitching wins. But, three of four teams remaining have explosive offenses (Texas, Milwaukee and Cards). The mantra of pitching, pitching and more pitching may not apply as much as it did a few years ago. The teams with the elite offenses with plus bat speed are the teams that are thriving.
.158
I enjoyed having a rational discussion with you guys, rather than just being crazy.
Since CJ is the best option available via free agency, I hope and believe the Yankees will explore the trade market.
Bronx Jeers October 9th, 2011 at 10:12 pm
LockDown says:
October 9, 2011 at 10:00 pm
Time for Breaking Bad
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Just started watching that. It took me about 5 days to watch 3.5 seasons. Great show. Like a 30 hour Tarantino movie.
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Absolutely. And the finale was awesome. Now have to wait till the season returns.
I really don’t want to trade if it means giving up Montero & the killer Bs.
Yu Darvish
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
Let’s “trade” for the guy in the video I posted.
JAP
Lockdown, I’m not sure what the plan is, but he said he expected to be back around May I think.
Lockdown, this is the most recent reference to his program I could find:
Joba_62 Joba Chamberlain
Update for y’all. Meet with Dr. Andrews today and everything is looking great and ahead of schedule. Playing catch from 45ft Friday!
5 Oct
Signing two over 30 pitchers to long term big money contracts this winter could be disastrous for the health of this franchise and undo much of what Cashman has worked to build in recent years.
LGY, it’s going to happen with CC – I don’t think it should happen (definitely not with CJ). However, that means going into the season with a very shaky rotation…..if Garcia comes back, it’s less so, but not THAT much less. I’m fine with taking a step back, but since the Yankees aren’t……….I don’t know how to read Hal anymore. I thought he was a more rational version of George, but I have this gut feeling that he’s going to force Cashman to offer Wilson a ridiculous contract
I wonder what they will do with Joba. He was great this year before the injury. Would they even consider him as a starter or has that ship sailed?
CC’s the exception. No to any other long-term pitcher contract.
Nice vid, Pruf. I have all Joba and Hughes starts from 2007 and 2008 on DVR. I think I will spend part of my off season re-watching them.
Now is the time to reinvent Joba as a starter. The TJS is what everyone’s afraid of. Now it’s behind him, and his arm should be stronger than ever. He must go into ST as a starter
CC will get more money and more years from the Yankees. They can’t afford to let him go. Eventually they will wind up with 3 old men, Alex, Tex and CC. Oh well, that how it goes.
As far as Nova, what makes some believe he will not improve. I think he will.
Don’t think Garcia and Colon will be back.
Let Montero be the dh and bu catcher.
Nunez in right field. Would like Melky, but KC might want too much for him.
“I love NYC” means “please extend me without the mess of the opt-out followed by the risk of acrimonious negotiations.”
Some folks seem to have a little problem with the notion of CC invoking his opt-out.
If it will help you, think of it as CC holding a 4-year player option. He could pick up that option or he could try for a 5 or 6-year contract (or longer).
It’s a pretty easy business decision for CC. I think it will be for the Yankees too, and CC will get more years.
CC trying to get the Mets involved in the bidding? Queens is in NYC too!
“I had a good pitch to hit, man. I just missed it. You throw me that pitch, I bet you seven out of 10 times you throw that, I put it in the seats. It is what it is. It’s baseball. You’re going to get opportunities and, hopefully, I come through.”
Man on 3rd less than 2 outs and he strikes out. Men on 1st and 3rd, no outs and he hits into a double play. What a choker that Albert Pujols is.
What a choker that Albert Pujols is.
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He can choke it up on my team any day.
Pujols is a juicer, no question about it. He entered the league right in the middle of the highest use time of all. From D.R. where the “milkshakes” flow without repercussions. Most from there take the juice and or lie about their age.
Going back about 5 yrs., he was asked about something he had said that, at the time, was out of character for him. He said he could say whatever he wanted after hitting a walk off homer. Not the nice guy that some think he is.
Then when Manny was busted and he was approached by a reporter, he said that’s the Dodgers, this is the Cardinals ! Like they don’t do such things! Seems he doth protest a little too much and quite angrily.
Then, when Howard won the MVP, he complained about it because Howard didn’t lead his team to NLDS. Then he proceeded to win it in the very same fashion as Howard.
2 yrs. ago he lead the team in errors. Ist basemen should never lead the team in errors. IMO
Yeah, he’s put up the numbers, just like Barry did. Holiday is another one.
Would never want him on Yanks, we already have A-Rod and he’s breaking down.
Thought for Today:
Go outside, go for a walk, sit in the sun, do something nice for someone you don’t know. Enjoy yourself, treat yourself to lunch. There is more to life than a Yankee Blog especially since their season is over.
hamiltonian October 10th, 2011 at 2:48 am
Refer to the post @ 2:43am.
Steriod-users have problems later on with injuries — particularly with their joints. No need to sign anymore past users or even present HGH-users.
Also, the Yanks are trying to sign good clubhouse guys (Soriano is on Levine). If there’s a ‘tude issue, they won’t be playing for the Yanks. That just makes it easier to root for them in my opinion.
Nick in SF October 10th, 2011 at 12:31 am
“I love NYC” means “please extend me without the mess of the opt-out followed by the risk of acrimonious negotiations.”
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Totally. I also think it was a “Gosh, I’m sorry I didn’t pull through for the fans during the post-season. Please still support me.”
I like CC, but I hope the Yanks can give him $ and not have to give him more years. That’s a body waiting to fall apart after all the weight and work it’s had to bear.
Would like Melky, but KC might want too much for him
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AJ to Royals for Melky, with Yanks eating 75% of AJ’s contract
“Signing two over 30 pitchers to long term big money contracts this winter could be disastrous for the health of this franchise and undo much of what Cashman has worked to build in recent years.”
Eh…..I don’t think having two veterans in the rotation is the worst thing…..especially if they are both left handed. You still have 3 spots open for kids to fill in……not advocating signing Wilson because I don’t know what the price is yet…..I don’t necessarily think they need him but he would make them better and help bridge the gap to Banuelos etc….
Personally (as I’ve said) I think Cash needs to get on the horn with Kenny Williams and see what he’d ask to rent Ranks for a year. If Danks isn’t going to sign an extension then maybe they shop him this winter…….that would be perfect if you can get him without giving your top guys.
Sounds like we’re setting Cashman up for the impossible. Get an elite #2 pitcher, preferably a lefty, without signing an expensive long-term contract, or through a trade where the Yankees don’t have to give up any top prospects.
Im bored…..and apparently nobody is here anyway so putting on my fake GM hat
-approach CC now and tear up his old contract and make him a new 5/125 deal
-trade Romine, Warren etc for John Danks
-sign Beltran (2/20)
-pick up Swisher’s option and trade him to recoup prospects or to add a useful piece.
-tender Martin a contract to be the primary catcher
-make Montero the primary DH and plan for him to catch 40-50 games and also take some reps at 1B in ST.
-bring back Jones on a similar deal
-bring background Chavez if he wants to play.
-build K Long a room onto Tex’s house
-have both Banuelos and Betances throw full seasons at AAA
Jeter
Beltran
Cano
Granderson
Arod
Tex
Montero
Martin
Gardner
Sabathia
Nova
Danks
Hughes
AJ
I’m not sold on C.J. Wilson. If the rest of his postseason goes well, Nolan Ryan will make a big push to keep him and avoid the Yankees into getting a foolish bidding war over a pitcher that may not have a solid future.
The Yankees are better off to deal some prospects to the White Sox to get John Danks as the LH until Banuelos is considered ready. Another option is a 2-year deal for LH Mark Buehrle.
The Yankees can use Brackman, Pena, and Golson as trading chips among others.
Wang IS Taiwan October 10th, 2011 at 3:08 am
Also, the Yanks are trying to sign good clubhouse guys (Soriano is on Levine).
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I’m not Soriano’s biggest fan, but I will say his attitude seemed to improve once he got back from his extended DL vacation.
Villa,
You may have to give up more for Danks…..but with only a year of control and coming off a down season Im not sure what they coukd get. I would give good prospects…..just not the very top guys. The Yanks have some valuable depth they can deal.
blake,
On a dark, rainy Georgia morning, your suggestions make sense. It’ll be a few more weeks before anything happens, I think. What we’re in for on the blog is endless rehashing and nit-picking.
I could also add to try and eat 20 million of AJs salary and trade him to the NL …..and then put Joba or Noesi in the rotation……but that won’t happen
Tom,
I think a little fake GMing is fun sometimes
blake -
As long as the untouchables remain untouched. The Yankees do have a couple of pitchers that would really be waiting in the wings in AAA for emergency service, who won’t necessarily ever be permanent fixtures in the starting staff in the majors.
Granderson cleanup?
Erin -
I agree 100% about Soriano. Whatever epiphany he had while he was away served him well. He had a much more agreeable demeanor. Plus, he was a lot more effective.
Villa,
Why not? He’s their highest OPS player right now…..hits the most homers….probably the best protection for Cano. Only issue with hitting those two back to back is if Granderson has a relapse of his issues with LHP. Ideally Montero would be the long term protection for Cano.
That was a vs RHP lineup…..id have Tex cleanup vs LHP
With the emergence of Drob the Yankeekees pen is going to be unreal once they get Jobber back……if they dont bring him back to start that is
If you want a lefty starter, I’m not sold on John Danks-lefties hit .270 off him.
Gio Gonzalez would be nice but he’ll cost one of our top prospects.
Buehrle- OK? Similar numbers to Garcia this year.
One thought would be to go after Sean Marshall of the Cubs and convert him back to a starter, which he was up to 2009. ERA as reliever 2.26 WHIP 1.10 lefties batted .206 and allowed one homer in 75.2 innings.
blake-
He just doesn’t seem like the prototypical cleanup hitter. But, the spot is ARod’s anyway, and there’s no harm in playing around with it here right?
Too bad Joba isn’t a lefty. But I really don’t think they’re going to bring him back as a starter. Unless they move AJ, but even then… I think the ship has sailed. (And I’m not sure if I hope I’m wrong or not; Joba is a complicated issue for me and I mostly avoid the topic.)
It should be a bridge year in RF for the Yanks…..either with Swisher or someone else holding the seat. The name that keeps getting thrown around is Matt Kemp and it should be…..he’s absolutely the guy they should go for if he hits the market……but another guy that’s going into his contract year that nobody talks about is Mr. Hamilton. Now he’s older and is much more of an injury risk etc……but I think the lifestyle stuff is behind him and he’ll probably be a cheaper alternative if Kemp signs an extension…….he would be scary in YS and would be awesome IF healthy.
BTW, I officially hate anybody who has the day off today.
blake -
You’re hitting hot buttons this morning!! Hamilton? Wow. Don’t see Texas giving him up and absolutely not the Yankees unless it is an overpayment. Unless you’re talking about as a FA? How old is he? And are his issues really behind him? Lots of questions.
Which one of these lefty reliever free agents would be a useful addition?
Lopez, Affeldt of the Giants?
Gonzalez of the Rangers?
None of them?
Jeremy Affeldt (33) – $5MM club option with a $500K buyout
Mike Gonzalez (34)
John Grabow (33)
Javier Lopez (34)
Damaso Marte (37) – $4MM club option with a $250K buyout
Hideki Okajima (36) – can opt for free agency
Darren Oliver (41)
Arthur Rhodes (41) – $4MM club option with a $200K buyout; vests with 62 appearances
J.C. Romero (36)
George Sherrill (35)
Brian Tallet (34)
Villa,
Yea only as a FA…..he is a free agent after next season. He is 30 now I believe.
Trader,
I don’t see the Cubs trading Marshall cheaply.
New Post-Time to move forward ?
New Post: Time to move forward