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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Moving forward: The rotation

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 10, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Brian Cashman calls it the “key the kingdom,” and the game treats it as such. Starting pitching is the highest commodity in baseball these days, and the Yankees have made it a priority ever since the winter of 2008 when they signed CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett, essentially setting the stage for the 2009 World Series.

It was a priority again last season, and it will be a priority again this winter.

That priority starts with Sabathia. If he opts out, as he’s expected to do, the Yankees will lose their ace. The top starter on the free agent market is C.J. Wilson, who’s been awfully good these past two years in Texas, but that’s the extent of his rotation experience. Sabathia is a proven commodity, even with his so-so last two months of the regular season.

Beyond Sabathia, the Yankees have Ivan Nova, A.J. Burnett and Phil Hughes returning. They also have Hector Noesi and a series of young, minor league starters who could compete for spots.

Otherwise, the Yankees have to choose their targets and decide who rounds out the group.

Freddy Garcia opened some eyes this season, and he could be worth a return trip the Bronx. Bartolo Colon’s second half should raise some red flags, but he certainly gave the Yankees more than they could have expected. It’s probably safe to say Brian Gordon’s time has come and gone.

Is Wilson just the guy to bring some left-handed balance, and a reliable No. 2 behind Sabathia? Is someone like Edwin Jackson worth a middle-rotation spot? Is someone like Rich Harden worth the health risk? Is there a pitcher on the trade market who’s worth dangling Jesus Montero?

Moving forward means answering those questions, but first things first, it means resolving the Sabathia issue and giving the team a legitimate No. 1.

Associated Press photo

 
 

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143 Responses to “Moving forward: The rotation”

  1. JM October 10th, 2011 at 11:36 am

    Don’t want to trade Jesus….Still think next year is a transitional year before the big FA class becomes available. Might be better to try to get someone like Buehrle….also I’d be interested in re-signing Freddy but will he want a longer term deal?

    I think Wilson is going to want too many years….Also I think he’s probably likely to remain in Texas, especially if they go to the WS again.

  2. Betsy October 10th, 2011 at 11:39 am

    No on Wilson…..

    Nuff said on CC………..

    Absolutely on Garcia

    I don’t think Hughes is a definite for the rotation, but he’s probably pretty close – at least for half a year.

  3. bisonthrow October 10th, 2011 at 11:39 am

    i really dont see a pitcher worthy of dangling montero on the market. As we all saw this postseason you still need to score runs in order to win games. So unless Kershaw is available id say you look the route of Wilson, Noesi, MiLBers and maybe another aging Vet.

  4. Betsy October 10th, 2011 at 11:40 am

    Montero is absolutely untouchable.

  5. Erin October 10th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    I hope they extend CC soon to avoid all of the opt-out drama. No matter what happens with that though, I can’t see him anywhere but with the Yankees in 2012.

    I can’t see either Garcia or Colon coming back, but of the two of them, I’d say Garcia has a better shot.

  6. Triple Short of a Cycle October 10th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Why no mention of Darvish by Chad?

  7. Your Worst Nightmare October 10th, 2011 at 11:43 am

    Cashman is 1st on the list then the Big Guy.

  8. J. Alfred Prufrock October 10th, 2011 at 11:46 am

    Is there a pitcher on the trade market who’s worth dangling Jesus Montero?
    ///

    Um, is Mike Francesa guest blogging here?

  9. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 10th, 2011 at 11:46 am

    Ah, all of the “what the Yankees should do” as opposed to what the Yankees will actually end up doing. My favorite lohud reading.

    :lol:

    “People also drink wheat grass. Doesn’t mean it is any good”

    My favorite post of the day!

    :lol: x2

    ****************

    I will add my recommendation of things the Yanks can’t/won’t do. Offer a gazillion dollars to buy out Ryan Braun’s “tied up until 2020? contract and then hope he doesn’t have a no trade in there! Oh yeah. Then move him to right field.

    :)

  10. Joe from Long Island October 10th, 2011 at 11:47 am

    CJ Wilson is a good enough starting pitcher, I think. The catch is that in this pitcher-thin FA market, he will be over-priced. In that scenario, pass.

    Freddy – yes. Colon – yes.

    Rich Harden – see CJ Wilson, above.

    Jesus – no way. He will be a core bat in the lineup. In spite of what Cash says about pitching being Number 1 (and he’s right), he still can see the issues with a the lineup, and the need to keep turning things over. Montero will be DH instead of Posada. This is how you keep from having the kind of problems that the Phillies showed this post-season.

  11. G. Love October 10th, 2011 at 11:47 am

    As much as extending CC’s deal feels wrong, you have to do it. He’s the horse of this rotation and in time his role will recede to what Andy’s role was in the latter stages of his career. That means he’ll still be one of the best 2-3 guys in the league. You hope by then that Banuelos or Betances have become a young ace and CC is the sage older vet to guide this staff.

    I stay away from CJ Wilson at all costs. He’s on the wrong side of 30, has not proven that he can succeed in NY and is going to cost too much money. There are warning signs all over this guy. He doesn’t feel worth the money it’s going to take to get him. And I don’t care if his reps keep leaking he wants NY. That’s just a player after top dollar. I rather overpay CC who can handle this city than CJ Wilson who could be one of those guys who blows up once he has the contract and the pressure on him.

    The rest of the rotation should be Nova, Hughes and AJ.

    After that, the key is finding 2 more starting pitchers. One who projects mid rotation or higher and another for the back of the rotation.

    I’d give Noesi a shot and see what Banuelos and Betances have to offer in the spring.

    Not against bringing Freddy back either as he proved he was more than capable here.

    There is a missing link pitcher for this rotation next season that isn’t in the organization. Could it be a guy like Capuano who will be a free agent did OK his first season in NY albeit with the Mets?

    Could it be Darvish? I’m not against dropping coin on Darvish since it costs nothing but money. No players get dealt and if there was a draft tomorrow I’m sure he’d be among the top picks. It’s the Yankees opportunity to get back the #1 pick they gave up for Soriano in a sense.

    I don’t see Buerhle coming here either.

    What you do know is other GM’s will be knocking on the Yankees doors for the young cost controlled guys like Montero, Nunez, Nova, Noesi and then guys like Romine, Banuelos and Betances.

    Something good is going to hit the trade market. You just hope the Yankees don’t overpay for it.

    I really feel if they resign CC and probably Freddy they need to add one outside starting pitcher to the mix and can rely on what they have.

    I’d love another lefty, but not CJ Wilson. I don’t want him here for 5 years and 90 million dollars.

  12. jpb173 October 10th, 2011 at 11:48 am

    I don’t see the need to trade Montero for a pitcher. Jesus could possibly be one of the top 5 hitters in baseball during his career. As such he could impact 120-140 games per year for the next 15 years and its possible that the Yankees may never get as good a batter in those 15 years.

    With Banuelos, Nova, Chamberlain, Robertson, Brackman, Betances, Warren and others young arms, I think the core of a good pitching staff will come from within the organization. From time to time the Yankees will need to supplement their pitching with a veteran but thats what free agency is all about. If we need to sign a CJ Wilson then go ahaead and do so…but don’t trade Montero for a guy who is only a little better than Wilson.

  13. Betsy October 10th, 2011 at 11:49 am

    Not interested in throwing gobs of $$$ at an unproven pitcher (unproven in the bigs) to be our #2………

  14. Your Worst Nightmare October 10th, 2011 at 11:49 am

    ‘Starting pitching is the highest commodity in baseball these days’

    ———–

    Which means it is cost prohibitive to try and trade for one that won’t be available anyway.

  15. tomingeorgia October 10th, 2011 at 11:50 am

    Don’t be so hasty regarding Colon. With the 37 innings he threw in the Dominican and the 167he threw this season, he was probably just tuckered out. In essence, he pitched continuously from last November on. He’ll get a job somewhere, if not here, and be very useful

  16. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 10th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Chad, thank you for doing a great job during the season, postseason, and continuing to the present. Also, thanks for helping to make the forum a happier place to post. There will always be unpleasant people but you definitely helped to cut down on the quotient.

    Nova or AJ will be there as #2. Joba will be a reclamation project as a starter and as it sane, the Yankees won’t give a rat’s patootie what the media thinks.

    Gorgeous day here, plenty of sunshine. I’m taking Worst Nightmare’s recommendation and am going to go and enjoy it, knowing the Yankees are going to make all of their decisions without benefit of anything that I think!

    :)

    Have a great day all.

  17. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 10th, 2011 at 11:56 am

    And oh yeah, if you’re into what “plenty of people drink” you’ll definitely want to try brewer’s yeast. As vile as anything you’ll ever find, but plenty of people drink it!

    :)

  18. Betsy October 10th, 2011 at 11:56 am

    Tom, I agree about that re : Colon – I just couldn’t give him 2 years and I think that’s what he’s going to be looking for

  19. Triple Short of a Cycle October 10th, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Not interested in throwing gobs of $$$ at an unproven pitcher (unproven in the bigs) to be our #2???

    ———————————————————–

    But it wouldn’t be gobs of money. His annual money paid to him would prob be less then Dice K and he would be very easy to deal if he didn’t work out here. The posting fee is a sunk cost and wouldn’t effect the payroll or luxary tax

  20. G. Love October 10th, 2011 at 11:57 am

    I would definitely bring Colon & Freddy back. They earned that right. As long as they come back asking for 8 million a season it’s a no brainer.

    I still think we’re one pitcher away and that pitcher doesn’t have to be another team’s ace. Just someone solid who is a gamer with the right mental makeup.

    I’d take a long look at Kazmir this off season and see if the time off did him good. He’s handled the AL East in the past. He’d be worth a “what the heck” signing in my eyes. Let Rothschild work with him and see what happens. It’s a roll of the dice type signing but as we’ve see this past season sometimes they actually work.

  21. Erin October 10th, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Tom-you’re probably right that those innings caught up with him towards the end of the season.

    I’ll just be surprised if he’s back.

  22. JT October 10th, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Where is Sabathia going to get more than the $23MM per year the Yanks are supposed to pay him through 2015?

    Is there a team that is going to give him a 6 or 7 year deal for more than $23MM per year?

  23. GreenBeret7 October 10th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    NYYs need to find another left handed starter to team up with Sabathia, but, since that’s not leaving much to chose from, you have Wilson and Buehrle. Not that fond of Wilson and Buehrle will either stay in Chicago or go to St. Louis. His reason is that most NL hitters haven’t seen him and should be more successful.

    Of the other pitchers, Edwin Jackson could be the best choice, though he’s right handed. He also won’t cost what Wilson will.

  24. G. Love October 10th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    I meant, as long as they DON’T come back asking for 8 million a season in regards to Freddy and Colon. Offer them each around 4-5 million with reachable incentives and leave it at that.

  25. Betsy October 10th, 2011 at 11:59 am

    Triple, it’s going to be a lot of $$ for a pitcher unproven here….I just wouldn’t do it. It’s still a huge risk to take for a guy that would be brought here to be a #2

  26. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 10th, 2011 at 11:59 am

    RIP Chauncey Hardy

    :(

  27. Erin October 10th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    GB-I keep hearing that about Buehrle too

  28. Your Worst Nightmare October 10th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    ‘he was probably just tuckered out’

    ————–

    Nothing rest, blood platelet and stem cell injections won’t cure before ST starts.

  29. G. Love October 10th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    Yankees also have to watch to see if Pirates pick up Paul Maholm’s almost 10 million dollar option. If they don’t, he’s a free agent and a lefty with decent control.

  30. Joe from Long Island October 10th, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    I’m leary of Edwin Jackson. When a player with his talent moves around as much as he has, there’s a reason. I’ve read rumbles of his extracurricular activities. Who knows, but I’d be leary of taking him on.

  31. Your Worst Nightmare October 10th, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue October 10th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Good for you. Have a great sunny day ! Enjoy !

  32. GreenBeret7 October 10th, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    You’re nobody’s nightmare. Just a crashing boor.

  33. Don October 10th, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    Someone said the Red Sox would be the only ones who could afford to go after CC if he opts out and the Yankees don’t work something out with him.

  34. Your Worst Nightmare October 10th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    Like your repetitive minor league BS. Go tend to your garden.

  35. G. Love October 10th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    I also think all the posters who’ve been clamoring for David Dejesus or Willingham to the Yankees may get their wish this off season. One of them may end up here as a free agent.

    The Yankees could sign and trade Swisher for a pitcher and then replace him with Willingham or a platoon of Andruw Jones and Dejesus.

  36. Joe from Long Island October 10th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    Think the Phillies would like having Nick Swisher for next year? A proven bat, SH, can play a reasonable 1B and RF. One year left, at $10M. Good clubhouse guy (Ozzie Guillen not withstanding).

    Swish and Adam Warren/David Phelps/DJ Mitchell (pick one) for Cole Hamels (a guy one year removed from a big payday).

    Don’t laugh. That window of opportunity is closing awfully fast for Reuben Amaro.

  37. Erin October 10th, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    russellmartin55 To all Yankee fans, want to thank YOU for the support all along the season.

  38. GreenBeret7 October 10th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Joe, haven’t heard of his “nightlife”, but, this year was his best as far as having control. I think people were running out of patience. He still hits a steady 95-96 and a nasty slider. Still needs work on his change-up, but it is getting better. He’s also still fairly young at 28 years of age.

  39. blake October 10th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    s there a pitcher on the trade market who’s worth dangling Jesus Montero?”

    Absolutely not

  40. Betsy October 10th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    Erin, I love Martin…….I’m glad he’s coming back

  41. blake October 10th, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    “NYYs need to find another left handed starter to team up with Sabathia, but, since that’s not leaving much to chose from, you have Wilson and Buehrle. ”

    Danks is who they should target if Kenny will deal.

  42. GreenBeret7 October 10th, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    Joe, if NYYs made a deal with Philadelphia, getting John Mayberry to replace Swisher in that deal and NY adding somebody like Corbin Joseph or a Melky Mesa and another pitcher from that group wouldn’t be bad.

  43. GreenBeret7 October 10th, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    If Chicago loses Buehrle, they’ll resign Danks.

  44. blake October 10th, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    “If Chicago loses Buehrle, they’ll resign Danks.”

    Its Danks’s decision though…..he may not want to stay there.

  45. Triple Short of a Cycle October 10th, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    Don?t laugh. That window of opportunity is closing awfully fast for Reuben Amaro.

    —————————————————————

    So the solution would be to trade Hamels and close the window even further?

  46. G. Love October 10th, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    I actually think we can get a good pitcher for a package around Swisher. The corner OF market is paper thin and other teams need offense.

    I’d rather deal him for a pitcher and get a creative platoon going in RF. I still think we can win in the regular season w/o Swisher.

    If there was a way to get Hamels for Swisher that would be amazing. I just think Swisher’s post season rep will hurt his value a bit. If you offered the Phils Swisher & Nova for Hamels I could see it get done. I’m not sure Swisher and prospects is what they would want since they are so win-now.

    As for Edwin Jackson, don’t be shocked if that’s who the Yankees target. Rothschild would love his stuff and he’s not going to cost CJ Wilson dollars.

  47. GreenBeret7 October 10th, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    A little on Garcia.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....arcia.html

  48. blake October 10th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    The Phillies aren’t trading Hamels……they are all about winning now and their window is closing. They will keep him and try to win the WS next year…….swisher to the Phillies makes some sense though…..especially if they they’ve lost Howard for next year. He could play 1B for them.

    How about Swisher for Wade Davis?

  49. RadioKev October 10th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Certainly pursue CJ Wilson, just don’t get burned on the years. If he’ll take 3, sign the man up. If he wants 3+, that’s a tougher sell.

    Who knows what the Cubs are doing, but landed Matt Garza in a trade would be pretty great.

  50. Joe from Long Island October 10th, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    triple – i understand your point, but – hamels will become very expensive, they have three big money contracts already (Halladay, Lee, howard), pitching really wasn’t their problem this year, lack of hitting was (they scored fewer runs than mets).

    i understand your point, but, amaro may be feeling a bit desperate.

  51. G. Love October 10th, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    I didn’t even think about Swisher covering 1b for the Phils. That’s actually a very good fit. They have starting pitching and we have an OF/1b who provides offense (in the regular season). There might be something there.

  52. 108 stitches October 10th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    There’s absolutely no reason why Jesus Montero’ name has to be used in trade talks for any pitcher.
    There’s other trading chips to use or break the talks off.
    Joe from L.I.’s proposal is a reasonable one. Frank Howard could be out for a year and Swisher can play a decent 1st base.
    I also like GB-7′s proposal of getting John Mayberry.

  53. GreenBeret7 October 10th, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    Wilson made $7 mil this year. I’d bet on it getting doubled. Jackson earned about $8.5 mil. He might get arout $12 mil for 4 years or so.

  54. blake October 10th, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    If the Phillies are smart they will decline Oswalts option and use that money to fill other holes on their club. They don’t need him…..you don’t need 5 good starters to win in October …..you need 2 or 3 and a balanced club with a strong pen……and a lot of luck also.

  55. RadioKev October 10th, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    There’s no way that Cole Hamels will be traded. Zilch. He’s only 27. They’re going keep him, and then try to lock him up with an extension. Maybe he’ll hit FA, but there isn’t a chance for a trade.

    It’s really not worth excercising fingers on.

    It’s about as likely as the Yankees trading Robinson Cano.

  56. Joe from Long Island October 10th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    who thought the phils were going to trade lee two years ago?

  57. blake October 10th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    I don’t think they need Edwin Jackson…..he’s gotten bounced around 100 times for a reason……everyone thinks they can fix him and make him great because he has such good stuff…..does this sound familiar? He’s just not that good.

  58. Triple Short of a Cycle October 10th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    I agree with getting Mayberry. I like him a lot. As far as pitching goes I think Worley is more likely then Hamels.

    I know I am in the minority here but I don’t think there is any way that the Phils let Hamels go and don’t resign him. There has been talk already about them having to pay some luxary tax to fill some pieces so I don’t think that will scare them off.

  59. Joe from Long Island October 10th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    hamels will command big money. will the phils take that on, as well as the contracts already committed for Halladay, Lee, Howard?

  60. blake October 10th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    “who thought the phils were going to trade lee two years ago?”

    I think they’d like to have that one back though……they shouldn’t have.

  61. JobaTipsHisCap October 10th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    if CC opts out, which team is likely to sign him to satisfy his money need, besides Yanks?

  62. Joe from Long Island October 10th, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    triple – i can see them keeping worley over hamels, just because worley is alot cheaper, and they hope he can produce about as well as hamels.

  63. Triple Short of a Cycle October 10th, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    who thought the phils were going to trade lee two years ago?

    —————————————————–

    But didn’t they just admit that it was a mistake?

  64. GreenBeret7 October 10th, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    NYYs could at least send them Swisher, and one pitcher, Corbin Joseph and Jorge Vazquez. NYYs need to move Vazquez shortly anyway. He could help a team needing a bit of right handed power as a platoon. NYY has no need for him.

  65. RadioKev October 10th, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    blake October 10th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
    “who thought the phils were going to trade lee two years ago?”

    I think they’d like to have that one back though……they shouldn’t have.
    ———–

    Yup. It never made sense. Sometimes totally inexplicable things happen.

    Trading Cole Hamels would be totally inexplicable. Philadelphia is a big market baseball team now, they sell out all the time, and they have the second largest payroll in baseball. They won’t let him go.

  66. Laura - I Bleed Blue October 10th, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    “F..king loser Martin thanking the fans. How about trying to get a runner in from 3rd with 1 out, or telling Girardi to stick Montero in, in your place, since you cant hit?!”

    Do you know how stupid this sounds? No player is going to tell their manager to take them out in favor of someone else unless they are injured and can’t play.

  67. blake October 10th, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    If Hamels makes it to free agency then Im not sure the Phillies can win a max bid…..the Yanks will be all in…….but everything they’ve done the last couple years has been to win now before their window closes….trading Hamels just doesn’t fit that. They’ll try to get him to give a discount t to sign an extension.

  68. Laura - I Bleed Blue October 10th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    PHI will hold on to Hamels. No to Edwin Jackson. He’s got issues that would make him a nightmare in the Yankee clubhouse.

  69. blake October 10th, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    “if CC opts out, which team is likely to sign him to satisfy his money need, besides Yanks?”

    A lot of teams……same ones that played ball on Lee last year plus probably Boston throwing their hat in to drive up the price. If the Yankees allow him to reach the market then I could see it taking 7 years to sign him……they need do be proactive and not allow a bidding war to happen.

  70. blake October 10th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    The Nationals would probably throw a Brinks truck at Sabathia given the chance.

  71. RadioKev October 10th, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    A 7-year contract is definitely a walk point for the Yankees. He’d be 39. I’m not sure any teams would offer that, aside from you know, the Nationals.

  72. Yazman October 10th, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    “Why no mention of Darvish…”

    Chad, wondering the same. Do you think he’s a non-factor? Love to hear your thoughts.

  73. JT October 10th, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    A lot of teams……same ones that played ball on Lee last year plus probably Boston throwing their hat in to drive up the price. If the Yankees allow him to reach the market then I could see it taking 7 years to sign him……they need do be proactive and not allow a bidding war to happen.
    ————————-

    No team besides the Yanks offered Cliff Lee the kind of deal CC is supposedly looking for. I’m not convinced there is the bidding war-kind of market for him.

  74. Shame Spencer October 10th, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    The only reason I don’t think CC will start a bidding war is because I think everyone in MLB thinks he’s returning to the Yankees for an even crazier contract.

  75. blake October 10th, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    “No team besides the Yanks offered Cliff Lee the kind of deal CC is supposedly looking for. I’m not convinced there is the bidding war-kind of market for him.”

    You don’t think teams would love to steal one of the Yankees players ……their ace? Texas offered close to what the Yankees did for Lee……they have money to spend. The Angels have money to spend…..Boston has money coming off the books and you just know Henry would love to steal Sabathia. The last time something like this happened the Angels and other teams bluffed the Yankees into giving Arod 275 million dollars……..obviously that was more extreme and Hank isn’t making decisions anymore…..but its the same concept. There will be bidders if you no other reason than to make the Yankees pay more.

  76. yankeefeminista October 10th, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    No to trading Jesus.

    Yes to Freddy for backend.

    No to CJ. Wait for the FA class of 2012 and our very own Killer B’s.

    Free Joba. Believe in Hughes!

  77. Erin October 10th, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    Shame Spencer October 10th, 2011 at 12:50 pm
    The only reason I don?t think CC will start a bidding war is because I think everyone in MLB thinks he?s returning to the Yankees for an even crazier contract.

    ************************

    Exactly

  78. Shame Spencer October 10th, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    “Hey Skip, Montero might be able to help us in this spot, Ive been really hurting the team offensively. Lets get this win, its time for the kid (Montero) to grow up”

    —————–

    Ahhhh yes, this perfectly represents the competitive mentality Martin is known for. What a selfish fool he was for not asking out of the line up in a big moment.

    ….I think this calls for a good ole fashioned BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

  79. blake October 10th, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    I don’t think CC wants to go anywhere …..so Im hoping because of that he will allow the Ya ks to essentially buy out his opt out clause and work a new deal before he excersises it.

  80. JK October 10th, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    there were 2 teams in on Sabathia @ 140M
    there were 2 teams in on Lee @ 140M+

    Sabathia’s market will not be that great.

    As for Hamels, The Phillies are paying Lee 25M a year! Hamels is younger than Lee and has had A much better start to his career. Unlike Lee, Hamels also won the Phillies a championship as their ace.

    I want to see how the Phillies hand Hamels a 120M+ contract with their offensive issues.

  81. blake October 10th, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    “Sabathia’s market will not be that great.”

    I just dont agree…..hope we don’t have to find out who is right.

  82. Your Worst Nightmare October 10th, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    Is it too much to think that CC will do the right thing and get together with the Yankees and they will come to an amicable agreement without the back and forth BS? After all the NYY’s know what he is worth and what he means to the team.

  83. Shame Spencer October 10th, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    “I want to see how the Phillies hand Hamels a 120M+ contract with their offensive issues.”

    This is what makes a good case for setting up a trade. At first, I thought with Oswalts money coming off the books they’d have more flexibility but I forgot that the Astros were paying for some of that as well. I’d still think Philly does everything it can to keep Hamels from hitting the market but you never know. That team has now been predicted to win it all 3 years in a row only to fall on their faces. That type of hype/result ratio could create some knee-jerk reactions that could work in our favor.

    No doubt in my mind Cashman leaves no stone unturned. He’ll be very creative this off season.

  84. blake October 10th, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    It wouldn’t shock me if CC didn’t opt out at all. He probably will…..but who knows.

  85. hamiltonian October 10th, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    Hope so too blake.

    Because it wouldnt surprise me to see the Red Sox swoop in with a $200 million over 7 years offer, to try and blow CC away

  86. hamiltonian October 10th, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    With that move, the Yankees are definitely out of the 2012 playoffs, and the Red Sox most likely are in.

  87. Your Worst Nightmare October 10th, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    JK October 10th, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    I believe that 3 teams were in on Lee, Texas, Phily and NYY at relatively close to the same money.

    Maybe Texas, Milw., Clev. Boston or even Phily could jump in there, who really knows?

    What if CC says ‘Show me the money’ ! ?

  88. JK October 10th, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    Blake,

    Boras always takes his big clients into late Jan. No one was able to make an offer to Arod when he opted out, he resigned with the Yankees before his market developed.

    Greenberg is out of Texas, he was the one driving the Lee bid. Ryan wanted no part of that contract.

    The Redsox would never sign Sabathia @ 31 to a long term contract with all the under 30 starters that could be available next year. They wanted Santana to sign a 4 year deal in the sign and trade years ago

  89. Shame Spencer October 10th, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    Illuminati of Ignorance – UNITE!!

    I wonder if they have cool rings like captain planet or if they just have to yell things out like ‘Tyrannosaurus!’ to notify their mechanical counterparts they’re ready to go fight the good fight against decent sports blogs everywhere…ahh, the mysteries of life.

  90. Your Worst Nightmare October 10th, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    Phily could decline Oswalt, trade Hamels for bat(s) and sign CC.

  91. 86w183 October 10th, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    I agree the CC market is going to be limited. $ 23 M plus a year for a pitcher is not something many can afford to do. The Angels already have three very highly paid starters. The Dodgers are a mess. Boston might toss their hat in just to be annoying.

    In the end CC stays for roughly the same terms he came here under.

    Surprised so many people are against CJ Wilson. He’s very good and has low mileage on his arm due to being a reliever earlier in his career. CC, Nova, CJ, AJ and Hughes/Noesi looks pretty strong to me.

  92. HipHipHorHay October 10th, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    We need Montero to fly backwards around the Earth really fast a bunch to reverse time, so we can go back to last offseason and do something to convince Lee to sign.

  93. Betsy October 10th, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    Again, the CC thing reminds me of Melo……he wanted to be a Knick, but wanted it via trade instead of as a FA – and he basically wanted the Knicks to trade their whole team for him, which would hurt him. CC knows that the Yankees giving him another 4/5 years (please, no, lol) at top $$$ would hurt them. He also knows that opt out was given to him in case he didn’t like it here……….. CC can put the screws to the Yankees, but if he does, it doesn’t speak that well of him

  94. Betsy October 10th, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    CJ is very good, but he’s going to get ace years/$$$ and I don’t think he’s worth that – and I don’t think he’d be a real ace in the AL East.

  95. Erin October 10th, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    86-I could go either way on Wilson. If they get him, fine; if they don’t, fine. LOL

  96. JK October 10th, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    Your Worst Nightmare,

    Sabathia will sign before Wilson, so I don’t see Texas as an option.
    Brewers don’t need pitching.
    Cleveland = your joking right!
    Philly is not going to pay 31 year old Sabathia when they have to worry about resigning 27 year old Hamels

  97. blake October 10th, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    JK,

    The Angels were in hard on Arod after 2007 according to some reports if I remember ……and I think both Texas and Boston would be in now. Also a few mystery teams as well……Heyman is probably licking his chops at the thought.

  98. JT October 10th, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    The Redsox would never sign Sabathia @ 31 to a long term contract with all the under 30 starters that could be available next year. They wanted Santana to sign a 4 year deal in the sign and trade years ago

    —————

    Thank you. The Red Sox are his only leverage and a move like this (especially after watching what has happened to Lackey after his age-30 season) for them would be highly unlikely.

  99. hamiltonian October 10th, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    The Knicks traded peanuts for Carmelo. I cant stand stupidity.

  100. Your Worst Nightmare October 10th, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    ‘The Redsox would never sign Sabathia @ 31 to a long term contract with all the under 30 starters that could be available next year’

    ———

    How can you say for sure? Maybe they sign him just to piss NYY off. I think they have over $20 milllion coming off the books with Drew, Wake etc.

  101. hamiltonian October 10th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    Nightmare, they potentially have Ortiz coming off, or at a lesser price, when Ortiz gives ‘em the hometown discount. They have Cameron coming off too

  102. blake October 10th, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    The Nationals could pay CC whatever he wanted…..I don’t think he’s going anywhere…..my point is that is he hits free agency the Yanks will have to pay more…..its just the way it works. They need to negotiate before he opts out.

  103. JK October 10th, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    Blake,

    The Angels are always in on everyone and never sign anyone with their take it or leave it demands. Arod resigned with the Yankees way early for a Boras client.

  104. Shame Spencer October 10th, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    LOL, I don’t even use that email.. its where I have all of my junk mail sent. And where I link all of these accounts to since its basically useless. Have fun perusing through 1000 Target ads.

    The Angels would be the only team I’d wonder about re: CC.. but they never seem to make a big splash when I expect them to do so.

  105. GreenBeret7 October 10th, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    Heyman only wishes that Sabathia was a Boras client. That’s the only way he’d know anything.

  106. Your Worst Nightmare October 10th, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    JK October 10th, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    Who can really say? Clev. has Ubaldo, they could dump some guys and make an offer. Trading Hamels and or Blanton for bats / youth and signing CC.

    Stranger things have happened and Phily came out of nowhere to sign Lee remember?

  107. Your Worst Nightmare October 10th, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    hamiltonian October 10th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    TY

  108. JK October 10th, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    Your Worst Nightmare,

    Organizational history is why I am so sure. The Sox don’t believe in signing 30+ pitchers to multi year contracts or giving pitchers 6+ years. The one time they went against their organizational philosophy with Lackey they got burned. Unless Theo leaves, they will get in the mix to drive up to cost but they wont be serious.

  109. m October 10th, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    Chad,

    You make it sound like CC’s going to opt out and, like, leave. Not even remotely possible. He’ll get another contract. Do the Yankees leverage him into a short 2-year extension instead? Tomato, tomato. But still, you can control the situation somewhat, and if CC loves NYC so much and would like to keep people from wearing a robber’s mask at his starts maybe he’s amenable to that.

    CC
    Hughes
    Nova
    AJ
    Noesi or veteran.

    I’m not as down on CJ Wilson as others. Offer him 4 years at a decent salary and see if bites. If not let him go elsewhere or stay in Texas.

    I liked Garcia good enough, but it feels like the other show is going to drop at any time. Of course he shocks and awes us all with his guile and craftiness.

    But honestly, we really need to get through the regular season and I don’t see him pitching in the postseason. We have some pitching depth, I’d like to use it.

    Of course there’s a risk with youth, but we’re not getting repeat miracle performances like we did with Colon AND Garcia. That was odds-defying.

  110. Shame Spencer October 10th, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    Of course I do, hack away.

    JK – Don’t bother talking to the guy rationally, I think there’s more than one CR here today and someone calling themselves ‘Your Worst Nightmare’ sounds exactly as I’d picture him to look.

  111. 86w183 October 10th, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    Yes, Boston has a lot of money coming off… but they’ll need that money to find a RF, DH and closer. Also, Adrian Gonzalez goes from $ 5.5 M to $ 21 M.

    Plus Ellsbury is gonna get a ton in arbitration. Bard and Aceves should cash in pretty well, too.

    CJ Wilson has a 3.18 ERA as a starter, averages better than 6 innings a start and has thrown only 708 innings in his career. He’s also 4-1, 1.43 against Boston.

  112. Your Worst Nightmare October 10th, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    JK October 10th, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    OK, just sayin ya never know. Like when they called Mo to make him and offer. That’s what makes baseball great not knowing whats going to happen. Remember how ya felt when we all thought Lee was in the bag and then POOF ! GONE !

  113. Your Worst Nightmare October 10th, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    Shame Spencer October 10th, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    Ya know I have never posted an ill word towards you I would appreciate you doing the same, OK? TY.

  114. Shame Spencer October 10th, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    In the words of my forefathers: Come at me, bro.

    (To all of you innocent bystanders, my sincerest apologies. I usually try not to get caught up in anything involving him, but try as I might…smh)

  115. Your Worst Nightmare October 10th, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    Geez I’m sorry that your pointed out the Ortiz and Cameron info. for me. lol. Some making a big deal over zip.

  116. blake October 10th, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    I think if Sabathia hits the market then John Henry would bend the budget to try and steal the Yankees ace……

  117. jpb173 October 10th, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    In regards to CC Sabathia and the opt-out situation, I could see the Yankees agreeing to extend his contract another 3 years; however, the way to handle it would be to use incentives to allow Sabathia to get his $23 million per year. That is, the Yankees should guarantee $15 million for each year on the extension and allow CC to earn $4 million bonus if he pitched 180 innings the year previous and additional $4 million if he exceeds 200 innings for the previous year. Such an arrangement gives the Yankees some flexibilty if he totally breaks down.

  118. blake October 10th, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    Yes I think if they tear up CCs old contract then it would make sense to have some incentives in the new one.

  119. m October 10th, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    Why would CC give up guaranteed money?

  120. Shame Spencer October 10th, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    The same choice Martin made.. go figure.

  121. Your Worst Nightmare October 10th, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    blake October 10th, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    I think if Sabathia hits the market then John Henry would bend the budget to try and steal the Yankees ace……
    ———–

    Steal him, exactly. A feather in their cap to gloat about.

  122. blake October 10th, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    CC wont give up guaranteed money…..but hopefully a good portion of what’s added on can be in incentives instead of guaranteed money……maybe they could add a year and then a vesting option like the Lee deal.

  123. jpb173 October 10th, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    blake October 10th, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    Yes I think if they tear up CCs old contract then it would make sense to have some incentives in the new one.

    ==============================================

    I wasn’t talking about tearing up CC’s old contract, I was talking about giving him an extension on the end of his current contract with incentives for the extension years only. The current contract should be honored as-is.

  124. blake October 10th, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    If the Red Sox stole Sabathia can you just imagine……greatest team ever wouldn’t even hold a candle……best team in all the galaxy……best team that will ever be………best team ever imaginable.

  125. Shame Spencer October 10th, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    If they could work it out where they could actually pay him more up front now and less later, that would probably be the most ideal. I think thats where blake is going with this..?

  126. tomingeorgia October 10th, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    I think Chad is on the job.

  127. blake October 10th, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    “I wasn’t talking about tearing up CC’s old contract”

    Well same thing……he’s not going to take less than his old contract over the next 4 years. An extension as opposed to opting out is what I meant also….whether its technically an extension of his old one or a new one is semantics. I agree that trying forthe an incentive laden latter part would be ideal

  128. Shame Spencer October 10th, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    Chad’s been on the job since before that idiot even got started.. I’m not THAT stupid ;) Again, sorry folks. You deserve much better here.

  129. blake October 10th, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    Im really interested to see what the Sox do with Ortiz and Papelbum

  130. 108 stitches October 10th, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    When Frank Howard hobbled down the 1st base line for the final Phillie out of the NLDS, it practically guaranteed that Ruben Aramo Jr. will be active in the trade mart.
    The Phillies have issues to deal with aside from Howard being out for all if not most of 2012.
    They have to sign Rollins and decide whether to sign Hamels long term.
    Can Amaro and Cashman get creative as trading partners ?

  131. m October 10th, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    We have $153M committed to 12 players for 2012. This figure includes $1M for Swisher, not the $10M that he will be owed. Anyway, that’s about 40M to round out the roster if you account for Swisher’s $10M.

    That’s not a lot of wiggle room. Hughes won’t get much of a salary bump. Gardner will get a nice little raise, but not a ton. Robertson will make some nice coin. Looks like we’re going to piece it together like we did this past year.

    If CJ Wilson is signed (IF), then he’ll probably be the only big expenditure.

    https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tpQLwiiQL4kzEzLhsUqVjLQ&output=html

  132. tomingeorgia October 10th, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    108,
    I think you mean Ryan Howard, not Frank. Both are (were) very intimidating players, Frank Howard retired as a player in 1973.

  133. Your Worst Nightmare October 10th, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    Your Worst Nightmare October 10th, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    Shame Spencer October 10th, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    Ya know I have never posted an ill word towards you I would appreciate you doing the same, OK? TY.

    ————–

    So?

  134. mick October 10th, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    Can Amaro and Cashman get creative as trading partners ?
    =====================================
    I can see it.
    They should lose Rollins, maybe Nunez and Hamels for starters?

  135. 108 stitches October 10th, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    Blake :

    I wouldn’t get too preoccupied with what Boston will or will not do. They have a GM question to deal with and then hire a field manager suitable to the owner. They have no trading chips to use from their farm system. Youkilis is an old 33 and may be dealt. Except for C.J. Wilson, there’s nothing they can do in the way of free agent pitchers. They gain $$$ from Drew but Papelbon has said more than once that he wants to test free agency. They have to hope that Beckett and Lester rebound and the back of Buchholz is 100%. I wouldn’t list them as any more than mild contenders with the Rays and (yes) the Jays breathing heavy on them.

  136. blake October 10th, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    Swisher for Dom Brown

  137. blake October 10th, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    108,

    Im not….I am just curious what they’ll do. Bostonians aren’t happy.

  138. mick October 10th, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    Nunez is a major trade chip.
    He’s not breaking into the IF any time soon .

  139. 108 stitches October 10th, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    tomingeorgia October 10th, 2011 at 2:03 pm
    108,
    I think you mean Ryan Howard, not Frank. Both are (were) very intimidating players, Frank Howard retired as a player in 1973.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I stand corrected. I still have Frank on my mind from his massive clouts of yesteryear. Until last year, he used to come to ST every year with the Yankees but his knees are now shot to hell.
    One of the real good guys of baseball.

  140. Triple Short of a Cycle October 10th, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    Something just doesn’t add up.

    On one hand Swisher is a mistake guess hitter who can’t hit in the playoffs and on the other hand corner outfielders are in so much demand that we could land a number 1 ace in Hamels for him

  141. 108 stitches October 10th, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    mick October 10th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
    Nunez is a major trade chip.
    He’s not breaking into the IF any time soon .
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Unless the Yankees can land a quality utility player, Nunez is going nowhere. The Yankees like what he did this year and expect that he’ll work on his footwork and throwing skills this winter in the Dominican League. Better bat and speed than Ramiro Pena. Expect Nunez to spell Alex and Derek even more than he did this year to save their legs, especially when a game is wrapped up by the 7th inning.

  142. mick October 10th, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    While I like Nunez, if you can dangle him in a package, he is worth trading.
    Utility players are out there and shouldn’t stop them from getting an impact player.

  143. mick October 10th, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    If Philly wants Swish to play 1st then they must talk.
    At that point we are in the drivers seat.


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