Girardi on the rotation
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 11, 2011 
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Today’s Joe Girardi press conference could really be divided into two general themes: The fact the Yankees lineup let them down in the division series, and the fact that pitching remains their priority this offseason.
To drastically simplify things, Girardi believes his hitters picked a bad week to have a bad week. As he’s said before, the Yankees were one hit away from advancing, and with the key hitters still under team control, the offense is a secondary concern.
“The one need that we’re going to have to address again is our rotation, there’s no doubt about it,” Girardi said. “You have two guys that are free agents, you have another guy that can opt-out, so that’s the one thing that we’re going to have to address. Similar to what we had to do for this year. It probably all starts with CC and then you go from there.”
On the importance of retaining CC Sabathia
“He’s extremely important to our rotation. We rely on him heavily in what he’s done the last three years. As a free-agent signing goes, it’s been spectacular. I can’t imagine what it would be like without him. I don’t want to imagine what it would be like without him. Time’s going to tell what’s going to happen here. It seems to be a place that he really likes.”
On the role and evolution of A.J. Burnett
“He’s a work in progress. He’s having to change as he gets older. He’s lost a mile or two (of fastball velocity), and that changes the pitches you’re going to get away with. We saw him pitch very well against Detroit. He’s made adjustments, and he’s tried to make adjustments, and the adjustment he made from August to September really helped him. I hope it continues to help him as we move forward. But as you get older as a pitcher, you’re not immune to adjustments. You have to make them. It might change your curveball a little bit, it might change your changeup a little bit. He’s trying to make those adjustments.”
On the expectation for Phil Hughes
“We consider him a starter, we do, but he’s got to get back to the form he had in 2010 to continue to stay in our rotation. That’s something he’ll work very hard at this winter. He’s got to stay healthy. That’s the other thing. Whenever you have health issues, you have setbacks, and it’s hard to get on a roll. Usually when you have a health issue, it’s physical, it’s always physical, and you have to build yourself back up. He had two of them this year, and the second one he had to deal with was his back, and that’s an issue that we’ll continue to have to address. Back issues can reoccur, and so can shoulder issues, so we need to keep him healthy and then I think he can be a lot more productive for us.”
On whether Hughes and Ivan Nova have rotation spots next year
“I would assume that they both would be part of our rotation. But I can’t tell you what they’re going to do this winter or how they’re going to come in and perform. That’s the one thing I can’t tell you. But going in, I would think they’re going to be a part of our rotation. I know they’re going to work hard, but nothing in life is ever given to you. You have to earn it.”
On young pitchers pushing for big league rotation jobs
“I think the kids could start to challenge. I think Noesi could start to challenge. You would expect some of the other kids, the Phelps and the Warrens and the Mitchells and the Banuelos and Betances to start to challenge. But as I said, you can never have to much depth. And you never know what’s going to happen next year with a Nova or a Hughesy. I expect them to have good years, but I can’t tell you.”
On the need to add a front-line starter
“That’s something that I’m sure we’ll look at doing. I’m sure we will, but it’s got to work out. It’s got to work out for both sides.”
Associated Press photos
On the need to add a front-line starter
“That’s something that Im sure we’ll look at doing. I’m sure we will, but it’s got to work out. It’s got to work out for both sides.”
____________________________________________________________________________
It was the footnote at the bottom of the page.
It’s seems like every year we are looking for a front line starter. Smh!
The thing with early 2010 Phil was that he was doing it almost all with his FB – he’s going to need a good curve and at least a decent change. At least he appeared healthy in the playoffs- whether it was the pen or who knows what, he was throwing darts.
AJ is who he is…..I expect he’ll have a year similar to this year in 2012.
Again, hope they don’t go whole hog on Wilson, who is a very fine pitcher, but just not worth the huge $$$ and long term committment it will take.
Feels like next February, hard to read any changes happening anywhere.
Again, hope they don’t go whole hog on Wilson, who is a very fine pitcher, but just not worth the huge $$$ and long term committment it will take.
____________________________________________________________________________
Betsy don’t think it’s an issue. Texas more than likely going back to WS again, and I see Texas giving him what he wants to stay there.
Its tough to fix a team that has very little that needs to be fixed.
The biggest problem with this team is its manager.
Had they had a different manager in the ALDS, I’m almost certain that they would have advanced.
I can’t say the same for any of the personnel on the field.
Gary, you’re probably right – I don’t see why Wilson would want to leave anyway
If they pick up Swisher’s option with the intent to keep him and add Montero fulltime to the offense, plus tweak the order based on the offseason progress of
many of the players, I don’t expect the money will be spent on more than adding mainly starting pitching and maybe resigning Jones as a veteran presence on the bench.
I don’t see why Wilson would want to leave anyway
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$$$
Just throwing this out there for conversation. Hiroki Kuroda is a FA. He made 8M last year. If the Dodgers don’t offer him arbitration, is there any interest there in having him in pinstripes on a 2 year contract, replacing Garcia/Colon?
The offense did pick a bad time to have a bad week……but here are real issues there that would help the team if they were addressed…..some of it is in house stuff…..adding Montero, fixing Teixera, getting Alex healthy…..but adding someone that can consistently hit RHP wouldn’t hurt……(it rhymes with Smeltran).
LGY, the Rangers will give him close to what he wants , I think……..and I assume he likes it there. Either way, with him being the big name out there, he’s going to get a huge payday
CJ Wilson hasn’t pitched well this postseason so far against the Rays and Tigers.
$$$ and that its 1,000 degrees in Texas in the summer.
Another year of Burnett ? Thanks, but no thanks. If he was second-rate in 2011, hell be less than that in 2012. He won’t suddenly find some magic.
Hi everyone,
trader,
Kuroda for one year ok, but two it might block the kids for an extra year.
Blake,
I depends on the lenght of the deal, one year yes, more than that you are hindering your chances to land Kemp if he becomes available as FA
blake October 11th, 2011 at 5:44 pm
The offense did pick a bad time to have a bad week……but here are real issues there that would help the team if they were addressed…..some of it is in house stuff…..adding Montero, fixing Teixera, getting Alex healthy…..but adding someone that can consistently hit RHP wouldn’t hurt……(it rhymes with Smeltran).
————————————————————————————————————————-
Exactly where would Beltran play when healthy enough to walk on the field and who replaces him when he goes down for 3 months? No thanks. He’s not worth the money and a first round draft pick.
“I depends on the lenght of the deal, one year yes, more than that you are hindering your chances to land Kemp if he becomes available as FA”
Nothing will hinder me in my pursuit of Matt Kemp…..sign him for two years…..he can play RF next year and then LF in 2013 after I trade Gardner.
CJ Wilson is 32 if i’m not mistaken….he is probably going to comand a 4 to 5 year deal plus lots of $$$$….I don’t think we should land another long term contract at this moment, especially after you extend CC
adding someone that can consistently hit RHP wouldn’t hurt……(it rhymes with Smeltran).
——————————————
Blake-LOL
Reed Johnson consistently hits RHP to the tune of .312 vs Beltran’s .306 and hit .309 overall, plus can play all OF positions.
Had the Yankees traded for him at the deadline, like I “begged” Cashman to-thru this blog- no doubt the Yankees would still be playing.
I think the Rangers will take the bidding on Wilson to the point where the Yankees won’t be interested.
“Exactly where would Beltran play when healthy enough to walk on the field and who replaces him when he goes down for 3 months? No thanks. He’s not worth the money and a first round draft pick.”
RF. Im risking it that he will stay healthy. Ill take his ability to hit RHP and great postseason numbers and hope he doesn’t get hurt……its a risk I admit but…..if you can trade Swisher fir value then I like it
Nothing will hinder me in my pursuit of Matt Kemp…..sign him for two years…..he can play RF next year and then LF in 2013 after I trade Gardner.
=============
I wouldn’t trade Gardner…..At least until either Heathcott, Williams are MLB ready.
“I wouldn’t trade Gardner…..At least until either Heathcott, Williams are MLB read”
Me neither now…..I would hope he had a big year in 2012 and then move him BEFORE he starts to slow down and gets more expensive
GB7,
Is Anderson Feliz an outfielder?
I wouldn’t be surprised if Cash somehow found a way to land Kuroda. He’s been after him for a while. I think if they can move AJ, then Kuroda would be the next step, because I really think they’d like Banuelos and Betances to have another full year at AAA.
Agreed, they will have an opening for Kemp in 2013 – or sooner. That is the objective.
And I think they will actively shop Swish, but only for a quality RF talent. Otherwise, he holds the spot for Kemp.
Blake, sounds good, but I expect the Dodgers to trade him before he hits FA
Im really positive on mason Williams he just has a baseb
No thanks on another NL pitcher – especially a guy who clearly wants to stay out on the WC
Im really positive on mason Williams he just has a baseball name and he has all the tools and time for growth.
Sorry, Blake Sherman, but, the last time Beltran did anything in the post season was when Kenesaw Mountain Landis was commissioner of baseball. Not only is Beltran not worth $10 mil a year for 3 years, on the basis of a draft pick alone.
luis-
Feliz is an infielder.
http://www.baseball-reference......lix-001and
You know how Cash took Crawford’s agent to dinner? Expect the same treatment for CJ Wilson’s agent. Texas has to be viewed in the same light as the Red Sox.
Gardner is nearing 30 you know…..when he loses a step his value is going to fall because there isnt much else in his skill set.
Feliz is a middle infielder and about 4-5 years away.
GB7 – I’m sure you remember those days well. Weren’t you the little guy who asked Shoeless Joe if it wasnt’ so?
Beltran cannot be offered arbitration, so we wouldn’t forfeit a pick.
At this point, it’s worth a shot. Are they really going to give Swisher another shot? If they do, then where are they going to try and upgrade? Trading Gardner?
GB,
I was saying that long before Sherman…..truth be told he probably copied me
Beltran is a very good player when healthy…..and very good hitting RHP
Blake,
Good point, but i don’t think that he starts to decline or slow down in 2013…I would however trade him after 2013, we may have either of the previously mentioned prospects ready by then
“Blake, sounds good, but I expect the Dodgers to trade him before he hits FA”
Still TBD……their financial situation has to get sorted out before we can gt a handle on that.
amaro jr said he wants dom brown to get 600 ABs in AAA next year. Trade for him.
AJ is practically untradeable. The Yankees would have to pay most of his salary. Not happening.
Very likely:
CC
Nova
Hughes
AJ
They will most likely just look to add one starter. 2012 might be somewhat of a transition year.
“Beltran cannot be offered arbitration, so we wouldn’t forfeit a pick.”
Correct..
Gardner is 28 B-day 8/24/1983
Young outfielders are a couple of years away, unless Maxwell is healthy and gets a shot to make the team. He’s about 26-27 now, and has failed a couple of times, but, still has a lot of tools. Making consistant contact is his problem. after that, Zoilo Almonte is probably the closest to being ready and he still needs time in AAA.
“amaro jr said he wants dom brown to get 600 ABs in AAA next year. Trade for him.”
Sign Beltran…..trade Swisher for Brown…..Swisher plays 1B for Howard……and you can bring Brown up if Beltran gets hurt.
Any chance Amaro would trade Lee to try and get some offense?
Maybe Lee for Montero, Adams, and Nunez?
Thanks Trader and GB7.. wasn’t sure, just heard Pruf the other day talking ver highly of him
Yank1 October 11th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
Beltran cannot be offered arbitration, so we wouldn’t forfeit a pick.
At this point, it’s worth a shot. Are they really going to give Swisher another shot? If they do, then where are they going to try and upgrade? Trading Gardner?
—
Posada/Cervelli -> Montero
+ they will probably hope for bounce back years from Tex and A-Rod. I’d be kind of surprised if they added Beltran. Boras will probably sucker some team into giving him 3-4 years.
GB7,
So you don’t think heathcott could be ready for the start of the 2014 season?
luis-
GB has a good handle on the Yankee farm system. When it comes to my knowledge of the farm system I know squat!
yankee 221 October 11th, 2011 at 6:05 pm
Not a chance the Yankees make that trade
How can you say with any certainty that if there was a different manager they advance?
I am one of those wishing Joe G had sent up a pinch hitter for Swisher and/or Martin late in Game 5.
However, you cannot CANNOT guarantee that any pinch hitter sent up would have gotten a hit in those situations.
You can talk about moving Jorge Posada up in the lineup. Hello? Most of you didn’t even want Posada on the post-season roster, and now you want him hitting 4, 5 or 6?
I’ll grant you that Girardi could have moved him ahead of Swisher or Martin or wherever the heck he was in the lineup. But there is no guarantee that Jorge (a) gets pitched the same way, or (b) gets hits in those key situations. Jorge’s hits were mostly of the “get on base and start something” variety, not of the “let’s drive a run in here” variety (although he did get that one hit that was hit so hard that ARod could not score from second).
My point is – there are no guarantees. The Tigers could have won that game last night on at least 2 different occasions. They did not. The Rangers could have won it earlier than the 11th, but didn’t
Stuff happens or it doesn’t.
It’s not always a sign that a sea change has to happen.
I wouldn’t trade Montero for anyone on the Phillies roster.
Joe from Long Island October 11th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
GB7 – I’m sure you remember those days well. Weren’t you the little guy who asked Shoeless Joe if it wasnt’ so?
————————————————————————————————————————-
Yeah, that was me. I remember it well.
GB7: “Joe…Joe…say it ain’t so, Joe.”
Shoelesss Joe: “I’m afraid it is, kid. Now, stop blowing snot bubbles on my sleeve. Here’s an autographed baseball. (inscription: Avoid the clap. (printed by his wife) Signed: XX
His parting shot was, “That’s good advice, kid.”
Girardi is just paying lip service to Cashman when Joe says the kids like Noesi, Mitchell, Warren, Phelps etc. will compete for a spot.
I highly doubt Girardi wants to be put in that position where he has to depend on CC-Nova and 3 question marks after that.
It’s telling that Girardi said:
1)Winning it all starts in the winter. He specifically mentioned “winter” (A bow fired to Cashman)
2)The Yankees have one arm who can opt out and 2 starters who are free agents – in essence – the Yankees could lose 3 free agents from their 2011 rotation (it sounds like they will lose 2 minimum)
I hope one of the teams who lusts after Jesus Montero is willing to trade an elite young starter because I think Cashman would respond. The rebuilding of the rotation should begin in 2012 or else Girardi is being put in a huge hole and I think he knows it.
Yankee Trader October 11th, 2011 at 6:09 pm
luis-
GB has a good handle on the Yankee farm system. When it comes to my knowledge of the farm system I know squat!
===========
Then, we are on the same team!
….I just know a little from what i read in different blogs such as RAB,Pendingpinstripes, pinstripesplus.
I agree that the Yankees won’t look to add Beltran. Maybe they’ll take him out for dinner! Boras clients are among the last to sign.
Beltran, who will be on the DL about half the season?
And Arod/Tex is horrible protection for Robinson Cano. As good as Robbie is, he can be pitched around when the middle of the order tanks in the playoffs.
I want Fielder to hit behind Robbie.
A bow fired at Cashman?
Of course winning it all starts in the winter – it always does. Cashman made the Granderson trade, what, hours after the end of the 2009 season? Did they have the parade yet?
All Girardi did was state the company line.
That they are always working on the next season.
Heathcott’s got all of the talent in the world. He just can’t stay healthy enough to stay in the line-up. It’s continue that way until he reigns in that football mentality that gets him hurt. He hasn’t met a wall or fence that he didn’t like up close and personal.
Bret-
Give me some names of an elite young starter that you have in mind, not named Kershaw and under the age of 24.
And good luck getting Fielder.
Where will he play? Oh, right. We’re trading Tex and Montero, signing Pujols and Fielder.
I want Fielder to hit behind Robbie.
=====================
I want Montero protecting Cano…..That’s a 1-2 punch that could be even better than what Big slopy and Manny were at their peak
GB – how you doing tonight? Hope the house is coming along.
No way do I trade Montero. If you were unhappy with the lineup last week, why trade away the one hope for a stud bat?
Lee is overrated at this point. He’s come up short in a couple of games that I can recall. Pass. Wait for Banuelos and Betances. Much, much more cost effective.
luis October 11th, 2011 at 6:16 pm
I want Fielder to hit behind Robbie.
=====================
I want Montero protecting Cano…..That’s a 1-2 punch that could be even better than what Big slopy and Manny were at their peak
—-
I want Montero also. He’s young, cheap and can hit.
Not sure why some people are dying to trade him away.
I’m pretty certain Girardi is not comfortable going into 2012 with 3 question marks in the rotation outside CC + Nova. I suspect him rattling off a list of names that give the Yankees depth is just one way to help Cashman salvage some leverage in trade talks for starters or in talks with free agent starters.
“Not sure why some people are dying to trade him away”
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Instant reward and longterm nightmares??
Offense problems aside, they really desperately need to add a starter. I think many of us significantly underestimate the good fortune that struck the team with Colon and Garcia. They’re going to get multiyear deals somewhere. If you bring them back, they’re still huge risks. Even if they sustain throughout 2012 and reach the post season, they’re not going to be shut down pitchers. You can say goodbye to them IMHO.
Joe,
Doing fine, here., thanks for asking. No health issues….have a brand new great grandson (center fielder with speed and power). Things couldn’t be better. Hope all is well with you and Mrs. Joe.
The house is coming along. In the middle of ripping out the tubs and installing stand up shower and remodeling the bathrooms, one at a time. I’ll finish those and then, start replacing the roof around the first of January. After that, just finish the inside. The last thing will be the siding. That starts aound opening day.
Predictions:
Pujols will resign with the Cardinals, especially if they make the WS. Holliday will voluntarily restructure his contract to help the Cardinals retain him.
Fielder can actualy play 1st base, has stated he doesn’t want to be a DH, and he’ll stay in the NL where his own team plus the Cubs and others will have interest.
Villa,
About your first post…..very good points, I have said that i didn’t particularly liked the way Girardi managed the ALDS, but he did a very good job in the regular season, and as you said anything can happen in a short series.
Joe from LI,
Montero is untouchable now in my view, he is the only potential impact bat in the short term
People that are writing Phil Hughes off are going to be sadly disappointed.
Plan A should be to hold out for an elite starter via trade.
Plan B is Darvish, Wilson or maybe someone like Edwin Jackson.
Plan C should be to trade spare parts for an innings eater/place holder for 2012.
I think Girardi and Cashman’s choice is to add that elite starter via trade and sure-up this rotation. If you imagine Montero will be the guy demanded you have to wonder what the Yankees do with the DH spot. It becomes obvious that there’s room for Prince.
GB-
Glad you’re feeling great. Are you doing a lot of the work yourself on the house?
Trader,
I’m not good at predictions either, but i think yours are very sound and logical. I don’t see either of them playing in the AL, because the teams that could pay them have those positions filled
Prince Fielder, formerly known as Carl Crawford.
GB7,
Thanks for the post about heathcott.
Given the 1000+ trade proposals Bret has made over the last couple of years, it is clear that if nothing else he certainly has the pulse of the front office.
Jimenez, Soria, DeJesus, Sizemore…etc, etc.
If the Dodgers somehow find a way to re-sign Kemp and keep him as the face of their club long term after the Yankees pass on someone who can smack 50 HR’s in Yankees Stadium, there will be major regrets. Kemp is rare and special but so is Prince Fielder. If a guarantee presents it self, you grab it at first opportunity.
If Fielder (who has weight issues of his own, so why do people ignore this and complain about sabathia) comes to the AL, it’ll be a team like Baltimore or Texas, who both need a first baseman. Reynolds won’t be in Baltimore long if he can’t play third base.
Bret-
Give me some names of an elite young starter that you have in mind, not named Kershaw and under the age of 24
If you find one I’m still not trading Montero. I’d consider starting with one of the 2 B’s but not the most exciting offensive player with power, to be developed by the Yankees since the Mick.
I’m here to discuss baseball, not to respond to insults.
Bret The Hitman October 11th, 2011 at 6:27 pm
Plan A should be to hold out for an elite starter via trade.
Plan B is Darvish, Wilson or maybe someone like Edwin Jackson.
Plan C should be to trade spare parts for an innings eater/place holder for 2012.
I think Girardi and Cashman’s choice is to add that elite starter via trade and sure-up this rotation. If you imagine Montero will be the guy demanded you have to wonder what the Yankees do with the DH spot. It becomes obvious that there’s room for Prince.
====================
Plan A Extend CC, Get Hughes and Nova ready and healthy, AJ/Noesi/Garcia/Mitchell fight for the last two spots.
They will get their SP in 2013 in Hammels
Montero is not going anywhere
Trader,
I think it’s more a situation where a target presents itself and if it doesn’t, there’s nothing you can do. I’m curious to see if an elite young starter is presented. Montero’s trade value has peaked. There’s a need. I’m intrigued.
Trader, thanks. so far no issues on the check-ups. I’m doing all of the work. The only thing I won’t do is the electrical work. My brother is coming in to do that part. He lives in Michigan, so he can come down and not worry about tracking in the snow. After that, we’ll go up to Michigan, go skiing and hunting for a few weeks.
Yankee Trader October 11th, 2011 at 6:33 pm
Bret-
Give me some names of an elite young starter that you have in mind, not named Kershaw and under the age of 24
If you find one I’m still not trading Montero. I’d consider starting with one of the 2 B’s but not the most exciting offensive player with power, to be developed by the Yankees since the Mick.
=========
Spot on….I might add that i would trade Betances only for Kershaw nobody else
Bret,
How could Montero’s value have peaked after his rookie performance in September?
LMAO. Montero’s trade value has peaked?
Phil Hughes can become a top starter in this rotation. He just needs to put the work in this winter and continue to refine his secondary pitches. Like I said if Ian Kennedy can turn into a top starter then so can Hughes.
For me, it’s unpleasant when people discuss baseball in absolutes such as “Cliff Lee is going to be a Yankee” and “Montero is going nowhere”. What’s the point of discussion if people aren’t going to look at the game from different angles and just share perspective rather than speak in ways that make it seem like they’re dictating information? If I wanted to read news that sounds like talking points I’d spend more time at the news stand. I hope when I present my perspective it doesn’t sound like I’m speaking in absolutes rather I’m exploring possibilities. Forgive me if I come across the wrong way and if conversation with me is unpleasant as a result.
Bret-
The elite young starters are few and far between. Gio Gonzalez at age 26-is he elite? David Price- still elite? If you find a young under age 24 starter than I’d trade a young starter in return.
Do not trade Montero!
Prince Fielder is a lot fatter and hits a lot better than Carl Crawford.
and how are the Yankees going to get Fielder when Tex is locked up ? and another bloated contract to a fat man doesn’t sound smart at all.
This is not like Christmas where you can ask for something and you will always get what you want.
Bret,
Saying Montero’s value has peaked is absolute, and don’t try to deny it.
We lose our first round draft pick if we sign Beltran, by the way.
Truth be told, I’ve been against signing or trading for the guy since the trade deadline this season – so that’s where I stand.
Tom,
I apologize. Allow me to rephrase. Montero’s trade value is at its highest point since joining the Yankees.
The one and only David DeJesus is a free agent.
Why are we even discussing Prince?
The problem is that teams are not giving up young talent like they use to. Even small market teams are applying their resources towards locking up young pitchers and position players.
The Yankees were lucky in 2009 but the chance of that happening again is slim. There needs to be a greater emphasis on retaining some younger talent. Trading Montero away for average talent solves nothing.
Blake,
Your exaggerating about the temperature down here in Texas. It is only about 500 degrees everyday. We flee the state as much as we can in the summer.
However, I will be very surprised if Wilson leaves the very successful and newly wealthy Rangers.
Keep Montero.
There’s thunder in that bat.
Perhaps the only young pitcher (under 26) that I’d trade straight up for is probably Kershaw. Even Felix Hernandez has a few question marks after this season and another year of a huge workload. Will he bounce back? Probably. Maybe. Perhaps. For how long, though. I sure as Hell don’t trade Montero for a Matt Cain straight up…or Lincecum, for that matter.
Offer Gardner to the Marlins for Logan Morrison…
I shouldn’t have to repeat this but I will anyhow. I’m here to discuss baseball, not respond to insults, veiled or conspicuous.
RadioKev
I agree. The guy is clubhouse cancer, and always injured.
Brett,
If i ofended you in any way please accept my apologies. I am not the owner of the truth, but i think trading Montero is shortsighted, first you don’t have much lineup flexibility, so the best way to infuse energy to that lineup is playing Montero ( who is young and cost controlled). Next year after Swisher goes, you sign Kemp and you add another young bat to the lineup.
The problem the team has is that it has to many longterm contracts to aging stars. Giving a contract to Fielder or Pujols for that matter is adding more problems in that regard, than solving them
We may be in need of a front line starter, but the farm is about to produce two likely candidates for that role. Payroll flexiblity is paramount to sustain success, if we keep on trading the cheap and cost controlled players we are going to end up like in the 80′s or the 00′s
Bret,
Was it I who insulted you?
Wilson will either stay with Texas or go to Anaheim. The Yankees are not the end all be all like they were in the past. You have more competitive teams with more money willing to use their resources.
The Yankees or any other team would not have to surrender a draft pick for Beltran because the Giants are not permitted to offer him arbitration.
No arbitration, no draft pick compensation.
This looks like Carig has been reading some of the trade propsals from here.
“Ledger_Yankees Marc Carig
RT @Joeyfromjl: @Ledger_Yankees any way the yanks sign both Pujols and Fielder and trade Cervelli for Halladay and Lee? / widespread anarchy”
CC gets a new contract if he opts out. So he remains our #1.
The #3 slot is Nova’s to lose.
AJ is our expensive #4, like it or not, who at times may – just may be able to pitch like a #2.
And Garcia will have the opportunity to return as the #5, but will have to battle the likes of Noesi, et al.
The #2 slot is wide open. I can see a FA signing here more than a trade. Who do we have to trade?
No one is going to trade kids for a #2. Doesn’t make sense to trade Swisher for a #2 because there’s no affordable replacement for his 20/80 production. Towers may listen to Hughes, Swisher, a young pitching prospect, and Cervelli for Upton, but I doubt it. Shoot, he may demand Hughes, Joba and Swisher for Upton.
Bret-
One of my favorite Yankee teams of all time and one of the greatest teams ever, were the 1961 Yankees. Exciting because many of the young players led them to a championship. Clete Boyer was 24, Tony Kubek was 25, Bobby Richardson was 25 and Roger Maris 26. Tom Tresh spent some time on the roster that year. He was 22.
Montero brings a renewed excitement to the offense. Along with Cano and Granderson, they might just become one of the greatest offensive teams of all time.
***proposals***
Luis
You are right on the mark with that post. The biggest plus for the Yankees would be Hughes finally reaching his potential. If he could step up like IPK this year that would help stabilize the rotation in a big way. Especially since the killer B’s will be ready going into 2013.
Tom,
No it’s just the trend in discourse that happens every winter. The absolutists kind of swamp the place and it swallows up minority opinions. I like to see a full range of perspectives when I talk baseball rather than come in here and feel like I’m having a conversation with the same single person regardless of the Handle that appears at the top of each post.
Just trying to change things up.
I won’t be around much this winter if at all so…
Personality clashes involving myself and certain folks on here won’t diminish the blog.
Ledger_Yankees RT @mlbtraderumors: Epstein ‘On Cusp’ Of Deal With Cubs http://t.co/6YbNPZTV #mlb 7 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite
Am I late to the party on this? From MLBTR’s-
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [October 11 at 5:44pm CST]
Boston GM Theo Epstein is “on the cusp” of leaving the Red Sox for a job with the Cubs, according to Steve Buckley of the Boston Herald. Red Sox ownership still hopes to retain Epstein and if he is to leave, Boston will demand “something real” as compensation.
Epstein’s proposed deal with the Cubs would include more power than he has in Boston, according to Buckley. The teams could make an announcement within a day or two and the situation will be “resolved very soon.”
Can’t wait for the custody battle over Carmine.
luis October 11th, 2011 at 6:52 pm
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Great post
Is that like the majority trade opinions that swamp this board with the same nonsensical trades multiple times a day…every day?
We don’t know that either or both of Betances/Banuelos will be ready by 2013 and I find it hard to believe the Yankees would break in 2 kids at once
GB – you’re doing the work yourself? Man, I’m mpressed. If I had known you could do that sort of stuff, I’d have invited you up when I had work done on my house, and grilled day and night!
Jeremy at 6:47 – agreed. They really do need montero.
wow………
the ***minority*** trade opinions
Bret,
Hope you don’t leave, but sometimes a little thicker skin helps. Mostly, I think, it’s your ideas and proposed trades that draw fire, not you. People are debating you. So what?
I am here to discuss baseball. If your way of discussing baseball is to launch insults, you’re going to be quite bored this winter. I won’t respond.
Boston will demand “something real” as compensation.
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Cubs fan-Steve Bartman?
Jeremy and lockdown,
thank you both
Austinmac,
That ks for the correction……and yea I think he stays also.
LGY is correct also about Beltran…..he would not cost a pick to sign
Bret doesn’t like it when people speak in absolutes but then says that Cashman should jump on any “guarantee that presents itself” (ie: Fielder and/or Kemp).
The issue with Bret is that he has no clue how a real GM thinks. None of his trade proposals have an ounce of realism to them.
Tom,
I’m a resilient person, online, offline. I have high expectations for high quality conversation so whatever I can do to avoid background noise I will because there are several awesome conversationalists who have already departed the blog because of the amount of space occupied by counterproductive conversation here that kind of snowballs.
let epstein go to the Cubs. Even though I think epstein is overrated losing Francona and Epstein will hurt the Red Sox especially in the short term.
Joe, that was always a gret thing about the military. You learned enough abought a lot of things to either be dangerous or helpful later on. We spent a lot of time building things in “depressed” areas of the world. I always felt that the government should use these untapped sources to do things like that in depressed areas of this country, too. Imagine was Army engineers and SeaBees could do to help improve quality of life for areas in the Appalachians, Mississippi and places like that.
“Can’t wait for the custody battle over Carmine.”
Lol…..maybe the Red Sox have to pay tech support
No response.
Bret,
If you didn’t read my previous post, please accept my apologies, didn’t mean to offend you if i did.
***great*** thing about the military. You learned enough ***about***
Good night everyone. Hoping for a Tiger rebound tonight. Enjoyed the dialogue today, since it was among true Yankee fans.
Wow, the Cubs are getting the greatest GM ever? Maybe they will finally win it…
GB7,
When I left the Army, I tried to do that with VISTA, but on Indian reservations in Minnesota and Arizona. Made some progress, I think. Then the casinos came in and solved the surface problems.
Luis,
You’re not one of the individuals that uses this public space to act out aggression towards other people.
So just so you know, I appreciate your perspective and civility. No offense taken.
Bret,
We have no power on this board. We only have opinions and I welcome yours. What else do we have to talk about until spring, Girardi not pinch hitting for someone? Keep the ideas coming.
Night Trader..
NYBD
The Boston Media has destroyed the best GM/Mgr combo in Red Sox history because of a bad month – congrats and enjoy the future
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A bad MONTH?
They haven’t won a playoff game in three years and missed the postseason entirely the last two.
I’d say it was more than a bad month.
Francona didn’t deserve his fate but I’d argue Theo did. He’s the guy that made a lot of bad roster decisions and didn’t have any depth on the farm to help out.
Austinmac,
But some have imagined power/authority, rights to more than their fair share of public space. That’s when things become unpleasant. I’m open to conversation with most people on here and offline as well. There are very few people I find it easier and more pleasant to just avoid. I appreciate your conversation as well. Don’t mean to sound like I’m down on the blog as a whole.
I’ll change the subject…
Yu Darvish
Tom,
I always looked at it like it should be run like a larger scale version of “Habitat For Humanity” project. Safe, clean living space. Drilling wells, clinics, small rural hospitals, small schools. People don’t realize how self-sustained military units really are and how much talent there really is in these units. I guess local politics and red tape is always the excuse for things not getting done for something that doesn’t provide profit.
“Yu Darvish”
Wasn’t he in Mr. Baseball…
It’s highly doubtful that Yankees would take a risk on Beltran with a multiyear deal considering his health history of the past several seasons. If the Yankees want to upgrade RF – and I mean upgrade with a young player – then a package for Justin Upton would be the best bet. But you can’t give up Montero to do it.
I could see a lineup of:
Jeter – R
Granderson – L
Upton – R
Cano – L
ARod – R
Tex – S
Montero – R
Martin – R
Gardner – L
Now, you’re starting to sound like WCRSFan. It’s always somebody else that causes an issue…never you.
OK, Darvish it is. He is built like a pitcher in the States. He is 6’5″”, I think and throws a 93-95 mph fastball. I think it is a mistake to compare one Japanese pitcher to another, anymore than all Taiwanese pitchers will have a good sinker.
That’s not to say he is the answer, but he sure needs to be strongly considered by people who know far more than me. And I wasn’t referring to you fellow bloggers.:)
Bret – I don’t agree with most of the trade proposals you put forth. But, you seem like a sincere Yankee fan. Hang in there. Don’t get down.
Upton isn’t getting dealt now that the Dbacks are winning…..his contract is just too friendly…..maybe a couple of years down the road.
I hired a few of young army vets to work the fields up here. Dude’s are resourceful. Last month the words, “so where did you get the helicopter?” actually came out of my mouth…
Id give Darvish a look for sure…….depends on what he’s asking.
Joe,
Me avoiding my Yankee fanhood addiction has everything to do with the demands of school right now and nothing to do with the state of the blog. I just hope that when I check in here this winter, the conversation is stimulating and a nice break from the pressures of science (I know you know all about that and have been through more than I ever will in the field).
Night trader.
Yu Darvish!!!, ok lets get on to it…I am generally scared of Japanese Pitchers, i don’t recall a single sustained success story aside from Nomo ( for 2 or 3 years maybe ), the rest have been big busts ( Irabu, Matsusaka,Igawa Jikes!!, among others ).
On the other hand, what i have read about him is that he is still young and that has good stuff (#2 potential as far as i have read ).
I would proceed very carefully, and would definitely not overpay for him.
Bret – good luck to you.
The tigers are going to lose this series. Their pitching is no match for the Rangers offense. And the Rangers have the better pen and rotation overrall even with Verlander as a factor for the Tigers.
Like I said before I see the Tigers getting swept or losing in 5. The Rangers are clearly the better team and the Tigers only looked good because the middle of the Yankee lineup couldn’t hit a beach ball let alone a baseball.
Jeremy – sad, but true.
this is still killing me.
Yeah blake…I know. I know. But he wasn’t so good in the postseason either.
One thing that could help making the evaluation of pitchers like those from Japan would be a Federation Of Baseall Playing Nations that would standardize things like the size of a baseball and bats. The Japanses leagues use a smaller, lighter baseball. With pitchers in particular, this means everything. Can they adapt to different sized baseballs? So far, the answer seems to be no. Hitters from the US go there and dominate (when the managers allow them to) but, almost all pitchers tend to fail when using the smaller baseballs. Same with their hitters, who seem to adapt better than their pitchers do in the States.
jeremy,
YUP, spot on….
Upton would be sweet. I doubt they’d trade him & if they did it might be more that what we’d be willing to give up.
Looks like a 1 year wait for Kemp, unless it’s an off season Kemp trade that doesn’t include Montero & Killer Bs.
we had the pitching, but we couldn’t get one bleepin’ hit when it mattered.
I would take a look at Yu Darvish. He seems like he has much better stuff than Dice -K. Also much younger and not a big workload on the arm.
I’ve watched several youtube vids of Darvish. I like his stuff.
the Tigers only looked good because the middle of the Yankee lineup couldn’t hit a beach ball let alone a baseball.
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Jeremy October 11th, 2011 at 7:33 pm
Wasn’t Dice-k relatively young when he signed with the Sux?? like 26 or 27??
Tom in N.J. October 11th, 2011 at 7:26 pm
I hired a few of young army vets to work the fields up here. Dude’s are resourceful. Last month the words, “so where did you get the helicopter?” actually came out of my mouth…
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LMAO. Did you check the papers to see if one was missing?
The military has it’s issues with a lot of people (but, less than the general population) but a lot come in with a lot of diverse skills that can make for a self-sustaining community….even in units that don’t do things like construction. Improvise, adapt and overcome. We’re not all just shoot ‘em cowboys.
GreenBeret7,
Is there any way to try out the japanese pitchers, watching them using a MLB baseball? Or do you just have to take your chances when you bid?
At the very least, if the Yankees front office decides to add Fielder’s bat (DH), I feel his added firepower would enable the team to manage without adding an elite starter. I don’t have a problem with Montero at catcher and Martin the backup, but I suspect the Yankees might feel differently…
To me, Kemp and Fielder are similar hitters with similar price tags.
I know DH is not ideal because of Arod but he should be able to play 3b long term if healthy. If he’s not healthy then he should be on the DL IMHO.
I don’t think having a DH who dwarfs Ortiz is such a bad thing.
Ortiz envy???
Perhaps.
He’s been huge for the Sox over his career there.
luis
I forget how old Dice-k was but yeah he was young and the guy is still in his 20′s I believe. I going to check it out.
Bret The Hitman October 11th, 2011 at 7:37 pm
At the very least, if the Yankees front office decides to add Fielder’s bat (DH), I feel his added firepower would enable the team to manage without adding an elite starter. I don’t have a problem with Montero at catcher and Martin the backup, but I suspect the Yankees might feel differently…
—
It seems that Montero would be the DH and would catch “some” games. Listening to Girardi, he wants to ease Montero into catching duty. So the DH spot will be filled with Montero & when Arod/Teix/Jeter need a day off.
You gotta figure the dodgers are going to hold until their ownership situation is sorting out and they know where they are financially …..they will probably see what Kemp is thinking about free agency thought this winter.
Dice-k was 26 in 2007. So yeah he was pretty young.
If Theo is going to the Cubs as has been reported, will Pujols be calling Wrigleyville home?
“Improvise, adapt and overcome”
I just watched part of Heartbreak Ridge with Clint Eastwood, and he used those same words repeatedly as a Marine, is that a common teaching in all Brands of the armed forces?
blake – i’m betting that kemp’s thoughts are that he wants money.
“To me, Kemp and Fielder are similar hitters with similar price tags. ”
except Kemp is younger and can play a position the Yankees aren’t already paying someone 23 million dollars to play.
The Phillies will have a busy winter. They need to sign Jimmy Rollins and closer Ryan Madson. They’ll need a 1st baseman with Ryan Howard out for most of the year.
I’d do a deal of Swisher for Hunter Pence and add Brackman to see if the Phillies can make something out of him. The Phillies have had enough of Brad Lidge If Swisher plays 1st base, they still have Mayberry and Domonic Brown for RF and after 2012 Shane Victorino is a FA possibly opening up CF for Brown.
Jeremy October 11th, 2011 at 7:42 pm
Dice-k was 26 in 2007. So yeah he was pretty young.
==========
That’s my concern with Darvish, i think GB7 hit it on the nail, that is tough to adjust to the heavier ball as pitcher
GB,
Great suggestion to standardize the ball. I remember when the English golf ball was smaller. Is the smaller ball only in Japanese leagues, Asian or international?
108 – that doesn’t do it for me. because, i still expect kemp to be rf in 2013. i look to trade swish in a package only for an elite player from a team that is desperate. i know that limits things, but pence or anyone else would only be a placeholder for kemp in this scheme.
Lockdown, I’m not sure. When the MLB players go to Japan, I’m not sure what baseballs use. If I was a team, I wouldn’t sign a player to that kind of money without making sure. I’d like to see the posting thing to die out. Nobody ever has a real good scouting report on the pitching because they pitch once a week (every 7 days) baseballs are different. Just too many variables. Matsuzaka came over with 7-8 different pitches and among them was the Mysterious Gyro Ball. that broke in three directions. They are so pumped up and no way to evaluate them under US League conditions. Uribe came over with the Nolan Ryan 100 MPH fastcall. He never got about 94-95 MPH. Must have been kilometers per hour that he was measured in. Nomo was probably the best of the bunch. The rest have been expensive disasters.
Russell said he would like to return but seems to be ackowledging the Montero situation with this quote…..
“I obviously want to play as much as I can, but my main goal is just to be on a winning team and win a championship,” Martin said.
austinmac October 11th, 2011 at 7:46 pm
in the Caribbean we play with the same ball as in the states
GB, there’s some geographer up here who owns a helicopter. He owns the helicopter because he uses it to look at the topography of the land to find natural gas and whatnot. Well he’s also ex military and he let my worker borrow it.
All in all they are good guys. I let them live rent free in one of homes here. They’re all trying to readjust to ‘normal’ life. One of the cool things about working for a college is that I have the ability to get these guys in touch with the type of people they need.
Blake,
They both just turned 27 this year. They’re only separated by 4 months.
Your point about the Kemp playing a position is taken but I just wonder is Kemp cut out for being a star among stars or is he the type of ego who wants to be the face of a franchise and the main ticket draw? He’s been out there in hollywood glamour for a while now…dated a hugely popular rap queen. Maybe Russell Martin can speak to his makeup.
Regardless of any speculation about the fit…
I’m looking at a huge hole exists in the middle of the lineup…I think we can agree on that…which is why you want to reign in Kemp and I agree with that.
But my thinking is if you pass on Prince now and then you miss out on Kemp, you’re left with that huge hole in the middle of the lineup.
On top of that…makeup wise…Prince Fielder comes across to me as a more likable guy, personally.
austinmac October 11th, 2011 at 7:46 pm
GB,
Great suggestion to standardize the ball. I remember when the English golf ball was smaller. Is the smaller ball only in Japanese leagues, Asian or international?
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Mac, I’m not sure what baseballs the other leagues like the Carribean leagues and world championship series use. I’d love to find an answer for it, though. I’m wondering if the size of the Japanese baseballs is related to the general size of the pitchers using it. Smaller hands an such.
“blake – i’m betting that kemp’s thoughts are that he wants money.”
well in that case advantage Yanks. Open the big wallet up
Just read through the threads. Lots of good back and forth.
Hughes will be a starter. We need Nova to be healthy or we will have to take on a contract we otherwise wouldn’t.
Others don’t feel comfortable, but I do going with CC, Hughes, Nova, AJ, and a kid or FA pitcher. If you want to see any of the kids in the Bronx, we need to stop signing FA pitchers to long contracts.
randy l,
Some very strong words about CC today! Wow.
Aretha. Awesome!
as long as the red sox don’t get starling castro, cubs ss, for theo, let him go. it weakens the sox this off season. he won because he had steroid fueled manny and papi in the middle of the lineup
pat,
Is it up to Martin? I thought we held his rights?
Montero won’t be a full-time catcher imo.
That’s another thing.
I acknowledge that money probably mattes most to most if not all of these players. But I’d press CC hard about what kind of teammate Fielder is and really drill Martin about Matt Kemp. Maybe it’s possible to determine which player is especially motivated about winning as well.
Bret The Hitman October 11th, 2011 at 7:51 pm
That surprises me, i always thought that Fielder was older. And i understand your position, but the hole gets filled with Montero, as Trader said a little while ago….He is the biggest bat coming from the farm since the Mick, his swing is perfect for YS with the oppo power he has, and believe me when i tell you that he also has the make up to handle the pressure.
Aretha gave me goose bumps. She put not only soul, but some heart in that performance.
Luis,
If the hole is believed to be comfortably filled by Montero, why is there a push for Kemp on top of that? And if there is a push for Kemp on top of that, why not Fielder? The Yankees will get an early look at Fielder. They will talk to him for sure.
“I’d do a deal of Swisher for Hunter Pence and add Brackman to see if the Phillies can make something out of him.”
I’d love to do that….but I’d guess the Phillies want to hang onto Pence and make him part of their future. They need young player.
Bret.
My mistake….I thought Prince was a year older…..nonetheless though he just doesn’t fit. I love the bat….love the makeup….love him right now…..but they are paying Tex 23 million dollars to play 1B and they need the DH spot……paying 20+ million for 1B and then 20+ more million for the DH spot isn’t a good use of resources…..plus I’m still leery of Prince long term….he’s great right now but the body type worries me a for his 30′s…..
I’d love to add Prince to the middle of the lineup….but I just dont’ see it working unless you can trade Teixera….and that’s just not happening.
Kemp strikes me as a laid back and a little Hollywood. Maybe it’s the picture of him and his hand on Rhianna’s bee-hind.
I think anyone who comes to the Yankees, buttons up and does it quickly. I think most players have nothing but good to say about playing for the Yankees. They do well at the business of playing baseball.
…I would guess.
Tom in N.J. October 11th, 2011 at 7:50 pm
GB, there’s some geographer up here who owns a helicopter. He owns the helicopter because he uses it to look at the topography of the land to find natural gas and whatnot. Well he’s also ex military and he let my worker borrow it.
All in all they are good guys. I let them live rent free in one of homes here. They’re all trying to readjust to ‘normal’ life. One of the cool things about working for a college is that I have the ability to get these guys in touch with the type of people they need.
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Tom, that sounds great. Is it a business or a learning project that you run? A lot of people don’t realize the readjustment that people have to make, going from strict discipline to civilian life. The toughest would be going being in charge to doing what somebody says. I suppose the closest would be from prison to outside of the walls. Congratulations on your efforts, Tom. sad that these sorts of things weren’t thought about back 60-70 years ago instead of going from the battlefields to being dumped onto the streets without a readjustment period…both for the troops and the families.
Again….Kemp plays a position the Yankees need…..Fielder doesn’t….that’s a big part of deciding these things.
Blake,
I worry about all long term contracts. But I like Prince’s swing for the Stadium and I think he’d probably age well at the very worst. He’s worth the investigation IMHO.
Blake,
I think makeup matters too, especially when giving out 100+ million dollar deals. Jeter, Arod, Tex, CC – great clubhouse guys.
If the Dodgers don’t trade Kemp, I think he will opt for free agency. He’ll be a plum of a prize. Swisher and Gardner are your bridge players. They should be appreciated more.
Bret,
Because Kemp is an improvement over Swisher and Fielder is a 1b/dh, where we have quite a few options and some expensive longterm contracts. They might talk to him but i don’t think they’ll get anything done…JMHO
Bret,
what are you doing with Teixera? If Montero could catch every day and Fielder was cool with DHing then ok….think about it…..but as it is you are tying up a ton of money and making yourself very inflexible at the same time.
luis October 11th, 2011 at 7:42 pm
“Improvise, adapt and overcome”
I just watched part of Heartbreak Ridge with Clint Eastwood, and he used those same words repeatedly as a Marine, is that a common teaching in all Brands of the armed forces?
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Every branch of the military has the same sort of motto, but, that’s basically the combat marine quote or motto. Basically, just use what you have and what the area provides. Be resourceful.
Unless a great deal or trade opportunity falls into Cashman’s lap, nothing is happening to the lineup except for a few tweaks. Replacing Posada with Montero, and having a hopefully longer season of a real ARod should be enough to lead the league in runs.
Their bullpen should be among the top without any real changes as well.
The starters are where the issues are. Without Posada’s $13 million and the $6 million from Colon/Garcia they have about $19 million to play with. There’s a lot they can do with that.
I’m not worried. They have lots of young pitching and catching talent to trade for young position players when they decide to get younger.
Their arch rivals are in disarray without a manager and likely without a GM, if the reports from Chicago are true.
You want a WS, but all in all not a bad time to be a Yankee fan.
Thanks GB7, i loved the movie as well, i am a big fan of war movies
Blake,
Maybe Arod can outlast Tex and Fielder can move to 1b when that happens?
I have no idea how long they project Arod at 3b or if they’d adopt a policy of “play 3b if healthy-rest on the 15 day DL if not”.
The main thing is here, filling that hole in the middle of the order involves Montero + an additional heavy hitter on top of that. Big money is likely earmarked for that spot in the order regardless of position configurations IMHO.
Prince is a huge ticket draw, a close friend of CC’s and a very hard-nosed competitor. His swing is made for YS. He has hit to contact throughout his career. He’s a highly disciplined hitter. I think he’s kind of hard to ignore. BTW, he’s on the record as saying he is open to DH’ing.
couldn’t get a little bloop single…..baseball is a game that breaks your heart. Bart Giamatti had it right.
GB, It’s been an education for me, that’s for sure. I relocated to Central New York late in the summer. And I figured “hey, I want to own some land!” So me and the GF ended up buying a 90 acre farmette. Knowing nothing about farming I turned to my future father-in-law and he said, “grow hops”. I know nothing about farming so he has been a great help. I called my cousin up who ex-army. He was stationed at Fort Drum before he was discharged and asked him if he’d like a job. He said sure and then showed up with 8 other guys who also needed jobs. I wasn’t going to say no. They work hard, hell, some come from a farming background.
Joe, all three losses hinged on a single pitch, either to a Yankee hitter or by a Yankee pitcher. If you look back this season and almost half of the Yankee losses, hinged on that single pitch. Giamatti would have been a sensational commisioner, had he had the chance.
Tom in N.J. October 11th, 2011 at 8:20 pm
GB, It’s been an education for me, that’s for sure. I relocated to Central New York late in the summer. And I figured “hey, I want to own some land!” So me and the GF ended up buying a 90 acre farmette. Knowing nothing about farming I turned to my future father-in-law and he said, “grow hops”. I know nothing about farming so he has been a great help. I called my cousin up who ex-army. He was stationed at Fort Drum before he was discharged and asked him if he’d like a job. He said sure and then showed up with 8 other guys who also needed jobs. I wasn’t going to say no. They work hard, hell, some come from a farming background
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Are you around Carthage or Lowville, Tom. What a beautiful area to live in. Loved being close enough to Cooperstown to take a morning ride down there and spend the weekend just looking. What a place to spend the day. 5 times and always ran into a couple of old ball players.