Laffey claimed, Proctor and Valdes elect free agency
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 11, 2011 
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The Yankees announced three player moves this afternoon.
• LHP Aaron Laffey was claimed off waivers by Kansas City.
• LHP Raul Valdes elected free agency in lieu of being outrighted off the Major League roster.
• RHP Scott Proctor also elected free agency in lieu of being outrighted.
The Yankees 40-man roster now stands at 37 with Boone Logan as the only left-handed reliever. Laffey and Valdes were added as late-season left-handed depth.
You have Soriano, Robertson and Rivera and Joba will be back at some point – What’s Phil’s role with the club?
Chip – Marte, Feliciano and joba from 2011 say hello.
Phil is a starter because you need him to be. Pretty easy. I can’t wait to see what people are going to do to Nova if he doesn’t repeat this season —— and more than likely he won’t.
Gary October 11th, 2011 at 3:29 pm
Chip October 11th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
My most current guess on what happens this winter:
CC signs 5 years at his current salary (Yankees might even go 7 if the bidding gets high enough but I think his weight will be a factor and they won’t just break the bank for him)
CJ Wilson signs 5 years $88 mil
Carlos Beltran signs 2 years $14 mil
Yankees pick up the option on Swisher; trade him, Nunez, a prospect and Phil Hughes to San Francisco for Matt Cain and Aubrey Huff (as part of a salary wash)
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My guess is your right on CC, the details need to be hammered out but he will be back. Texas will easily pay that kind of money for Wilson. He only comes here if the money is the best and he wants to play in NY. I think he stays in Texas at the end of the day. The offer I think has to be higher to have any chance. Beltran won’t be here in NY. Swisher will play in Pinstripes next year as will Hughes. I could think that Swisher could be dealt, but not Hughes. Like Joe said the project will be to get him back to 2010, they aren’t ready to give up yet on him.
Irreverent Discourse October 11th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
You have Soriano, Robertson and Rivera and Joba will be back at some point – What’s Phil’s role with the club?
Chip – Marte, Feliciano and joba from 2011 say hello.
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So put Hughes in a marginal role in the pen because some guys might get hurt? That’s kinda silly.
I think if the Yankees are questioning whether Hughes should be in the rotation they should trade him. They have a deep enough pen without putting Hughes there and they can still get some value for him
silly compared to what? His complete lack of trade value?
I wish Scott a lot of luck going forward – he’s been nothing but class when he could have done some serious ripping of Joe Torre for ruining his career.
“– not sure why he went away from that lean, young-Roger Clemens look.”
Because baseball players and horses grow into their “haunches” as they mature?
Hughes role or supposed role in the pen gets even more marginalized by the fact that Joba will be a reliever here on out, so another arm out there that needs to pitch. A good problem to have. We don’t have a rotation next year and just like Cole Hammels or others, sometimes guys have bad years, so hopefully he bounces back.
Irreverent Discourse October 11th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
You have Soriano, Robertson and Rivera and Joba will be back at some point – What’s Phil’s role with the club?
Chip – Marte, Feliciano and joba from 2011 say hello.
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The Yanks want/need him to start. Joba is a question mark, they have done better on these types of repairs, but what kind of pitcher will he be and can he stay healthy? I think Joba has to be a major question mark in the minds of the front office for next year.
Irreverent Discourse October 11th, 2011 at 3:32 pm
silly compared to what? His complete lack of trade value?
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He’s a 24-year old pitcher making very little money and a lot of talent – I’m sure there are more than a few GMs who would like him.
I think Soriano opts out also, and Cashman will be delighted. He can easily get $12+ million plus a 3-4 year deal on the FA market, and close.
What makes it “more than likely” that Nova won’t be able to repeat his performance from this season?
And because 20 year olds tend to gain weight as they get older. Not sure how many players look exactly the same as they did thru the minors. I mean Jeter was thinner than Heidi Klum in the minors, I love that he at least gained some weight.
Royalys wasted no time. Good player development/scouting staff on that club.
Pat, but body types don’t change…I suspect he worked out a lot. That (plus something extra, lol) is what lead to Roger’s metamorphosis. I think we can assume that Phil is not following Roger’s lead THAT way
Hughes has also lost 3 seasons to injury and ineffectiveness. You’d be hard pressed to get a better bullpen arm than him in return anyway, so what’s the point? His upside as a starter is worth holding onto.
typo: Royals…
Soriano off an injury plauged year is going to opt out of $12 million a year guaranteed???? I would love it, but doubt it. Nobody wanted him at the price after being the leading reliever in the AL the year before when he was 100% healthy and 100% effective.
What makes it ?more than likely? that Nova won?t be able to repeat his performance from this season?
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Curious, cause I really don’t know – did Nova have a significant innings jump this year?
Sadly, after the year Soriano had, I don’t see him opting out.
Phranchise, that’s true, but it’s still a huge change – do 20 year olds gain that much bulk?
As to all this talent, Phil has a good arm, but he still has not been able to develop any secondary pitches nor has he been able to stay healthy. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that he is best suited for the pen.
Unreal. All of a sudden some think Hughes isn’t a SP any longer. That is just ludicrous.
DaSaint007 October 11th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
I think Soriano opts out also, and Cashman will be delighted. He can easily get $12+ million plus a 3-4 year deal on the FA market, and close.
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I’m sure some calls are going back and forth testing the waters. I thought he pitched better in the latter part of the year and how much did the new situation screw with his brain and how much effect did the injury impact him? I think it would be a substantial leap for a club to pay that kind of money, but I bet there are a few out there that would.
I liked the signing, but Soriano has been a disappointment……. oh well; what can you do at this point?
Soriano was decent at times this year, but overall he wasn’t worth the money-not even close. With DRob as the closer of the future, there is no role for Soriano with the Yankees. If he opts out, good riddance.
Valdes looked pretty good in his limited number of appearances. Logan is OK in general as an arm in the pen, but he is not a lefty specialist.
I guarantee there are teams out there that think the Yankees screwed up Hughes and that they can fix him…..same with Joba.
What makes it more likely that Nova doesn’t repeat it is basically history. I mean did we not witness Phil Hughes first hand and other young players. Some do and some don’t. And although it hasn’t been pointed out much, his 2nd grade strain is similar to what Joba was diagnosed with before he needed TJ surgery. Nova went from a relative unknown, given back to us thru waivers and was 16-4 with a 3.70 era. A lot to expect for a guy to repeat that. Even Verlander had a bad year. 2008 Verlander was 11-17 eith a 4.84 era and made 33 starts so wasn’t an injury. If we are banking on Nova winning 16 again than we are banking on a Kennedy Hughes type of situation from a few years ago. Rookie years Kennedy and Joba were unhittable, next year not so much.
I think Soriano opts out also, and Cashman will be delighted. He can easily get $12+ million plus a 3-4 year deal on the FA market, and close.
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Huh?
He had an inconsistent, injury-filled season.
You guys are crazy. The Yankees are built to plow through a 162-game season with 95 wins over weaklings and bad bullpens. That puts incredible amounts of money into the Steinbrenner bank accounts. They are not built to win in the post-season — that’s why both teams in the NLCS and both teams in the ALCS add up their payrolls COMBINED to equal the Yankees payroll. So your suggestions are to add more payroll? For what, 95 wins and a first round exit again?
How about actually shedding payroll, starting with A-Rod’s? Offer Kevin Towers a sweetheart deal — pick any package of prospects you want for Ian Kennedy, but in exchange for accepting that package, you have to take A-Rod too. Yes, you can have Montero and Banuelos, but you have to take A-Rod.
Can Soriano beat 2/25 on the open market? I just don’t know…..now he may think that going somewhere where he can close again will increase his value and he could get more next year……..I hope he opts out but I doubt he does…..
Blake, yeah, I’m sure there are – but I don’t agree with them. I don’t see how the Yankees messed up with Hughes at all – short of rushing him in 2007 and that’s long in the past. I won’t get into Joba because I know most Yankee fans blame the Yankees and I tend to put the “blame” on the players………
My sense of Soriano, based on his demeanor on the mound and in his postgame interviews, is that he considers himself an elite closer. Pitching in the 8th with Mo in the 9th was OK to him because it was Mo, but pitching in the 7th with Robertson in the 8th was an insult to Soriano’s ability and experience. I could be wrong, but it sure seemed that way. If I am correct, Soriano will opt out in a heartbeat, as he will assume that his value as an elite closer is still very high.
Betsy
He always has the same body type. It just filled out.
The haunches thing wasn’t a joke. We had a friend who worked for the Yankees and he used to say a trick scouts used to spot someone at 17 who can develop into a power hitter or pitcher is the size of their haunches.
A pitcher or hitter with a strong base- wide hips/big butt will develop the upper body to go with it as they get into their 20′s.
Blake, completely agree, but they will take either of those guys at a discount. You aren’t going to get top prospects or useful guys in return. If you are that down on Hughes you hope he starts and start hot next year and then trade him. As a relief pitcher he has limited value and has limited value after his debacle this season as well.
Offer Kevin Towers a sweetheart deal — pick any package of prospects you want for Ian Kennedy, but in exchange for accepting that package, you have to take A-Rod too.
You called people crazy… then wrote that. Just sayin…
“How about actually shedding payroll, starting with A-Rod’s? Offer Kevin Towers a sweetheart deal —pick any package of prospects you want for Ian Kennedy, but in exchange for accepting that package, you have to take A-Rod too. Yes, you can have Montero and Banuelos, but you have to take A-Rod.”
So trade your best prospects and Alex Rodriguez for Ian Kennedy? You can’t make this stuff up…..well I guess you can.
There are lots of teams that think the Yankees have talented young pitching but screw with many of their pitchers or don’t give them enough of a chance to prove themselves…
Jeff Karstens, Ross Ohlendorf, Tyler Clippard, and Ian Kennedy come to mind.
So Hughes and Joba wouldn’t be anything new…teams would take a chance on that inate talent.
How about actually shedding payroll, starting with A-Rod’s? Offer Kevin Towers a sweetheart deal —pick any package of prospects you want for Ian Kennedy, but in exchange for accepting that package, you have to take A-Rod too.
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Pat, I can buy that – and because a power pitcher needs his legs, you want a power pitcher to have a solid trunk. I guess I never thought about the upper body in that way……..thanks for the info!
The Yankees screwing up Joba or Hughes is a bit overdone. Santana was a reliever before starting, CJ Wilson was back and forth, it all depends how these guys take to roles. Sometimes pitchers are just fragile, Soriano has a history there as a reliever, look at what has happened to Zumaya, pitchers are touch and go. The Yankees stayed dedicated to innings limits.
DaSaint007 October 11th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
I think Soriano opts out also, and Cashman will be delighted. He can easily get $12+ million plus a 3-4 year deal on the FA market, and close.
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Whatever you’re drinking pass it this way.
There’s no way Soriano opts out – not with Heath Bell, Jonathan Papelbon and others on the market who were all a lot healthier and more effective than he was this year.
Why does it feel like a year ago, expect we aren’t talking about Cliff Lee.
“. If you are that down on Hughes you hope he starts and start hot next year and then trade him”
Im not really down on him…..I think he needs to get healthy and get into shape…..next year is definitely where the rubber meets the road for him though…..he’s got to do it this year. The ball was coming out of his hand better than it has all year in the playoffs…..so that’s good at least.
Phranchise, I agree. I just think it’s too easy to blame the organization when a player doesn’t develop as you hoped……..
Even Verlander had a bad year. 2008 Verlander was 11-17 eith a 4.84 era and made 33 starts so wasn’t an injury
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Maybe not an injury per se, but wear and tear of ’06 and ’07 were quite likely a factor.
look at what has happened to Zumaya, pitchers are touch and go.
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Zumaya I think is a different situation. The human arm and elbow were never designed to throw that hard. I think Verlander is the only survivor or the Bonderman, Zumaya, Verlander flame throwers.
The Yanks want/need him to start. Joba is a question mark, they have done better on these types of repairs, but what kind of pitcher will he be and can he stay healthy? I think Joba has to be a major question mark in the minds of the front office for next year
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I wouldn’t mind if they traded Joba
Dear Soriano,
Please opt out…..you are a great closer and your value is sky high. Its an insult for you to continue to wallow in the 7th inning and having to pitch against the inferior teams in the league. This is America….opt out of that restraining contract and go take what is yours!
Sincerely
Caring Yankee fans
blake October 11th, 2011 at 3:39 pm
I guarantee there are teams out there that think the Yankees screwed up Hughes and that they can fix him…..same with Joba.
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People on the blog think so, no reason to think guys like Jack Z are much smarter
And can I get a link for all this fat farm stuff? This is the first I’m hearing of it but I’d love to know more.. do they force the guys to run on a tredmill with a Twinkie hanging in front of it?
How many more days until pitcher’s & catcher’s are due to report!!
Phranchise October 11th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
The Yankees screwing up Joba or Hughes is a bit overdone. Santana was a reliever before starting, CJ Wilson was back and forth, it all depends how these guys take to roles. Sometimes pitchers are just fragile, Soriano has a history there as a reliever, look at what has happened to Zumaya, pitchers are touch and go. The Yankees stayed dedicated to innings limits.
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The difference between Johan and CJ and Hughes and Joba is that once Texas and Minnesota moved Santana and Wilson to the rotation they left them there – there wasn’t any yo-yoing them back and forth from the pen to the rotation to the pen because they were worried about inning limits or things like that – they just let them go out there and throw.
I can think of one pitcher who went from the rotation to the pen to the rotation with any sort of sustained success: John Smoltz
Warning Track Power October 11th, 2011 at 3:51 pm
How many more days until pitcher?s & catcher?s are due to report!!
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Too many
“So they force the guys to run on a tredmill with a Twinkie hanging in front of it?”
Lol…that’s mean
You could have sent Hughes to AAA after Wang returned in 2009 – that would have allowed him to start and he wouldn’t have had the huge innings jump from that year to 2010…….but it’s not something that I think was a killer decision.
Yeah, I don’t blame the organization at all, I think they have actually gotten better with conditioning etc over the years.
I think Hughes went full out the one year to win a spot, came out of the gates flying and then slowed down 2nd half. The discussions then were maybe too much offseason work and the increased workload attributed to the second half. They said at the end of last season, let’s scale back the offseason a bit and then he comes to spring training out of shape. So they need to revist the best approach here. I mean other than it being written do you notice him that much fatter? Like Joba fatter?
Anyway, I still believe he will be good here. He might not be. I believe he’s a starter, but maybe he is better served in the pen. In the pen though he holds no value to us, so in order to trade him for max value you need him to start next year.
They also didn’t have a mysterious arm weakness problems when moved to the rotation. Pitcher A has nothing to do with Pitcher B.
That is, I think it hurt the development of his pitches, but he’s had time to work on them besides, so I don’t think it was a terrible decision…..
Warning Track Power October 11th, 2011 at 3:51 pm
How many more days until pitcher’s & catcher’s are due to report!!
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My holiday calendar reads: Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, Pitchers and Catchers… its really not far off when you put it in these terms
There’s no way Soriano opts out – not with Heath Bell, Jonathan Papelbon and others on the market who were all a lot healthier and more effective than he was this year
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Might make sense to stay put, dazzle the Yankees with some 2010-like pitching and get some consideration as the guy to replace a might-be-retiring Mo Rivera.
Phranchise, I thought he looked very flabby from the first day he reported to camp – it was noticeable. This, on top of the fact that he’s just a lot bigger than he used to be.
I agree to get max value he has to start, but if he does well, then they wouldn’t trade him because why would they? If he doesn’t, and they put him in the pen, and he throws well – yeah, they wouldn’t get much back for him as a reliever, but it’s better than what they’d get for him as a starter (and obviously we don’t know what the other team would do with him once they got their hands on him).
Yeah, the flip flop back and forth I guess is true. But you will find a lot of pitchers pitch in relief early in their careers. I think the screw up may occur if you went starter-relief-starter during the course of one season, but if you make the changes in the offseason you can I guess develop the arm for lack of a better term for a full stretch doign one or the other.
Shame-I like your calendar.
Betsy October 11th, 2011 at 3:47 pm
Phranchise, I agree. I just think it’s too easy to blame the organization when a player doesn’t develop as you hoped……..
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You’re right – there’s plenty of blame to go around. The Yankees were so careful with Hughes and so concerned with limiting his pitch count that they never allowed him to build up any sort of stamina. This isn’t a second guess – it’s a first guess that was made years ago. There was an article, I believe in 2007 that questioned why the Yankees as an organization seemed so determined to turn Phil Hughes into Jaret Wright – a pitcher who was conditioned to go at most 5 innings before wearing down.
And you know what – that’s exactly what he is. He’s a pitcher who can’t maintain his stuff because he was never conditioned to maintain his stuff. When he is asked to throw more than what he was conditioned to throw, as he did in 2010, his body rejects the extra work load.
Some of this you can blame on him for not taking it upon himself to work out harder – but if you only ever ask him to do X all through the years coming up then how is he supposed to know that he should prepare himself to do Y when he comes to the majors.
Warning Track Power October 11th, 2011 at 3:51 pm
How many more days until pitcher’s & catcher’s are due to report!!
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Drove by the new Sox ST complex yesterday. By the pace they are going at it it’s pretty soon. Nice state of the art facility they are building out there. The fans regardless of which team it is for will love it compared to what they had before at City of Palms. City of FM has sunk a big amount of cash into that.
Yup, but still think Phil’s greatest value lies staying on this team because you won’t get value in a trade if there are question marks and if he has some value it is better served here. If you were to trade him it was a few years ago. Just playing devli’s advocate, if you are a younger team, as you wouldn’t be trading him to an AL contending team I imagine, would you rather have Phil Hughes or Banuelos? And if you say Hughes due to MLB experience, is it worth that much more given last year than a lefty prospect with top notch stuff who is younger. I mean Hughes was Banuelos but even better just a few seasons ago.
When you think about the pitchers that the Yankees have developed – it has been the unheralded guys who have ended up out performing the top prospects:
Wang and Nova > Joba and Hughes.
Based on pure talent – Joba and Hughes should be leading this rotation right now, but instead it appears that neither of them will be in it in 2012. Why is that? My opinion, and that’s all this is, is because the Yankees pamper their top guys like Joba and Hughes (and Betances and Banuelos) while allowing guys on the undercard (Wang, Nova, Phelps, Mitchell, Warren) to just throw the ball.
Instead of becoming 5 and fly guys who are watched like hawks, these second tier pitchers are allowed to build up arm strength, refine their pitches and actually learn how to get guys out.
When I read people on Twitter write things like “Yankees should just get Kershaw” , it makes me wonder if there are delusional fans somewhere writing “We should just get Cano”.
Well Wang is unique in that he had been pitching professionally in Taiwan. Nova is an older rookie. Hughes is now Nova’s age and Joba is still young. If anything they needed to bring Hughes and Joba up earlier due to needs. Wang was a need but he wasn’t 21. I will say at the same point Hughes dominated every level of the minors on the way thru so the most he needed was another full season at AAA to work on a third pitch.
sigh – now I’m depressed. I just went back and re-read one of my own posts and realized it for the first time.
Phil Hughes IS Jaret Wright.
Tremendously talented youngster who comes up, has a couple of good years, gets derailed by injury, bounces between starter and reliever and then is gone by 30.
FA Closers courtesy MLBTR.com:
Heath Bell (34)
Jonathan Broxton (28)
Matt Capps (28)
Francisco Cordero (37) – $12MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Frank Francisco (32)
Brad Lidge (35) – $12.5MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
Joe Nathan (37) – $12.5MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Jonathan Papelbon (31)
Jon Rauch (33) – $3.75MM club option with a $250K buyout
Francisco Rodriguez (30)
Rafael Soriano (32) – $11MM player option or a $1.5MM buyout
Jose Valverde (34) – $9MM club option, no buyout
10 names excluding Soriano and Valverde, as he’s staying put.
IMHO, they are broken into 2 categories. The first includes Bell, Broxton, Papelbon, and Rodriguez. Soriano can compete with this group, and they all could get $12M/year on 3 year deals.
Sorry I just don’t buy this ‘Yankee’s coddled Hughes” BS.
2006 – 136ip, all minors
2007 – 110ip shortened due to injury
2008 – 69ip shortened due to injury
2009 – 105ip, moved to bullpen, ineffective starter
2010 – 176ip
2011 – 74ip, useless arm
At what point when he was not injured should he have thrown more innings to “build up stamina”? How is Hughes getting hurt the Yankees fault?
They should have never called him up to begin with, he should have been in the minors pitching until 2009 building up his innings.
Keep this in mind the next time you are clamoring for Betances/Banuelos to be called up at 21 years old.
Jumping in on something from the prior thread.
Joe was talking about all the young pitchers having to earn a spot in the rotation, that no spot is taken for granted.
As far as Hughes goes, he said he doesn’t question anyone’s work ethic on his team – they all work hard. His remarks about Hughes have to work had more to do with making sure he specifically targets the injuries – shoulder and back – to make sure he strong enough. The worry is that those two injuries can be recurring. No question, Hughes has to work, but I didn’t get that Girardi was “down” on Hughes.
And I don’t think he just threw Nova’s name in there. I think one full season under a pitcher’s belt doesn’t guarantee a spot in the rotation when you’ve got prospects knocking at the door and an ownership that will spend money.
Wright had part of one season and playoffs.
His first full season he was 12-12 with a 4.72 era and had a chronic shoulder injury.
He missed a whole season with TJ surgery
Not the best comparison. If anything maybe Joba, but even that might be a stretch.
“What makes it more likely that Nova doesn’t repeat it is basically history. I mean did we not witness Phil Hughes first hand and other young players”
History says it’s possible. If some do and some don’t, that doesn’t make it “more than likely”
Kennedy pitched 20 innings in his “light out” Yankee debut. Joba pitched 1 inning at a time then became a starter and had a shoulder injury. Comparing anybody to Hughes career path is difficult.
What Nova has going for him is steady forward progress since his arrival and the development of his slider. Of course he could regress but he’s also shown signs that indicate that he could very well improve as well.
“Curious, cause I really don’t know – did Nova have a significant innings jump this year?”
In a word, no.
Irreverent Discourse October 11th, 2011 at 4:07 pm
Sorry I just don’t buy this ‘Yankee’s coddled Hughes” BS.
2006 – 136ip, all minors
2007 – 110ip shortened due to injury
2008 – 69ip shortened due to injury
2009 – 105ip, moved to bullpen, ineffective starter
2010 – 176ip
2011 – 74ip, useless arm
At what point when he was not injured should he have thrown more innings to “build up stamina”? How is Hughes getting hurt the Yankees fault?
They should have never called him up to begin with, he should have been in the minors pitching until 2009 building up his innings.
Keep this in mind the next time you are clamoring for Betances/Banuelos to be called up at 21 years old.
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How about in the minor leagues. In no year did he average more than 5 innings per start. That’s a tremendous way to develop a 5 inning pitcher.
Phil Hughes has become exactly what the Yankees groomed him to become.
I guess what I am saying more than anything is we cannot expect Nova repeats. Maybe more than likely is a bad term. If we bank on him winning 16 games that would be a mistake in our offseason planning. The plan should be he is our 3 or 4th starter with some regression to the downside. With the payroll we have and the money spent you put the season in jeopardy by making such moves. We were lucky with him and the Colon/Garcia moves this year. I mean Hughes didn’t repeat the season when people were thinking he was penciled in for 16 wins again. Same with Bucholz for the Sox.
Chip – When in the minor leagues?
So in 2007 you were standing here saying “this guy should not have been called up yet”? I doubt it.
He was never given the chance to get innings under his belt because of injuries. This is not a developmental problem, other than he was called up too early. There is no way to know if he still would have hurt himself playing in the minors.
So, like I said… I don’t expect to hear you asking where the B’s are come next spring.
Chip, now that’s true – I did also read that they had a pitch count him (85?) in the minors………that’s really helped him. However, I still place the vast vast majority of the “blame” or “credit” on players. In Phil’s case, he doesn’t seem to be able to develop secondary pitches with any consistency – there’s nothing the Yankees can do about that.
Warning Track Power October 11th, 2011 at 3:51 pm
How many more days until pitcher’s & catcher’s are due to report!
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Approximately 126 days.
Phranchise, of course you’d rather have Banuelos. Phil has flaws as a starter (or as a reliever as well) that have been documented by other teams. He has serious trouble putting hitters away and he’s mistake prone. We’ll see if he can overcome these flaws – he wouldn’t be the first one – but he’s not a baby anymore and time is running out for him to do it here.
In 2006, his first year in A ball he should not have thrown more innings than he did.
In 2007, had he not hurt himself pitching in Texas, he would have approached 150+ innings that season.
In 2008, not hampered by the previous injuries… we would be talking about a completely different pitcher.
Hughes had zero development time. One season in 2006 basically. Making any conclusions about his development based on the first year of it… is silly.
So Soiano’s opting out to join the the biggest class of free agent closers in history?
I still don’t get it.
By my count, based on Hughes lack of success without proper development time… Betances and Banuelos are 2 FULL minor league seasons away from the majors.
Anyone calling for them sooner has no right to complain about the way hughes has developed due to “lack of stamina”.
Chip, I hope it doesn’t turn out like that, but if it does………it’s just one of those things. It was all projection with Phil, like it is with all players…..but as you know, projections don’t have a way of working out the way we’d like. Some pitchers improve, some pitchers were always just hype (a product of beating inferior players in the minors), some improve (like Nova). You just don’t know.
Pat, probably, lol………..
Right, but Hughes didn’t have those flaws in the minors and dominated with two plus pitches. Great control which has been his biggest downfall in the majors. And a high ground ball rate. His number blow away Banuelous. So Banuelos is far from a sure thing either. So trading Hughes isn’t a possibility for Cashman as no way do you get equal value, you can trade him to a team buying low on him who thinks they can turn him around. He doesn’t make any real money so for the Yankees he is a cheap arm with potential. You hold onto those guys.
Phranchise, Buchholz missed most of the year – my guess is he would have had another good year (it didn’t have to be quite as good)…..but who knows? I agree that the Yanks can’t count on Nova to be as good, but I do think they can expect him to be good. Hughes was terrible in the 2nd half last year while Nova went from strength to strength. Nova obviously could still use some improvement, but there’s nothing obviously “wrong” that he needs to work on. Even after 2010′s 18 wins, it was obvious that Phil had a lot to work on.
Anyway, good chat, as the days go by the sting of this playoffs goes away and anxious to see what we are coming back with next year. See ya all later
Ledger_Yankees How will it play out? Cashman will sign a new contract and Hal will tell him to drive the armored truck filled with cash to CC’s driveway.
FWIW, Nova had a higher xFIP this year than Hughes did last year.
Soriano is not opting out.
Hughes will be a starter.
LOL @ someone taking A-Rod’s contract.
Irreverent Discourse October 11th, 2011 at 4:12 pm
Chip – When in the minor leagues?
So in 2007 you were standing here saying “this guy should not have been called up yet”? I doubt it.
He was never given the chance to get innings under his belt because of injuries. This is not a developmental problem, other than he was called up too early. There is no way to know if he still would have hurt himself playing in the minors.
So, like I said… I don’t expect to hear you asking where the B’s are come next spring.
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He was drafted in 2004 – it would have been nice if at somepoint between then and when he was called up he was groomed to be at least a 6 or 7 inning pitcher by, oh I don’t know, being allowed to throw 6 or 7 innings.
I’ve already gone on record as saying I don’t have high hopes for the B’s at this point because the same chucklehead who scripted the development plan for Hughes and Joba is scripting it for them too (Nardi Contreras). They are given a month off it seems whenever they get a pimple on their butt.
I believe what Jim Kaat always used to say – your arm is more likely to rust off than fall off…let these kids throw!
Odds, you might want to qualify.
Because I know you, I know you wouldn’t mind trading Joba because you wouldn’t mind seeing him get a chance to do what he was made for – starting.
Phranchise, he completely lost his curve (tinkers with it way too much) and really won’t throw the change……and who can explain the loss of command? His stuff really isn’t that special either – it’s good, but lots of pitchers have as good or better. Plus, he gives up a ton of HRs…… I don’t know, but he’s not the same pitcher here that he was in the minors. ..It doesn’t really matter what Phil did in the minors anymore as it was so long ago. No pitcher is a sure thing, but Banuelos has better stuff and more pitches……but he does have to work on his command – but then he’s a baby.
The reason why Phil would be traded has more to do with there just not being enough room. I think there is an excellent chance he’s not going to be here after he becomes a FA, so it’s possible the Yankees trade him with the understanding they aren’t going to get much for him. I don’t think they’ll do that now, though – he’ll get some time in 2012 to prove he has the right stuff.
I guess what I am saying more than anything is we cannot expect Nova repeats. Maybe more than likely is a bad term. If we bank on him winning 16 games that would be a mistake in our offseason planning
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I agree. Penciling him for their #2 doesn’t sound like a good idea.
Anybody like Mark Buehrle?
Buerhle was only good at home this year, pass.
Chip – 2008 he pitched 90 something innings, they increased that workload to 146 innings, then in 2007 he got hurt. I will ask you again. When was he supposed to pitch those magical innings to stretch him out… in the offseason?
2005* he pitched 90 innings, sorry
Bronx Jeers October 11th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
Anybody like Mark Buehrle?
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Sure, I like him.
But to pitch for the Yankees? Pass.
Betances reportedly really addressed an already really good changeup at Instructs with nice results.
Said he didn’t throw it as much as 2010 because he thought he lost his grip, but what actually happened was he just was throwing it less and therefore lost familiarity with it. Some of that, I guess, is because they were giving him leaner tasks in game, but he’s responded well to getting back in touch with it. Contreras invited him down there as a last minute thing & he got good work in the close out his 2011 program.
@ Jap yep you know me all to well when it comes to Joba
I’m in and out of here today…is Cashman supposed to check in with the media in some official manner? Someone hinted at it, but haven’t heard anything.
Joelsherman1 Person in know put Cashman’s re-signing with #Yankees at 100 pct, said matter of him going to Tampa to see Hal face-to-face to finalize
Joelsherman1 Asked friend of Epstein if that was Theo spotted in Chi. Answer: “That would be a pretty good bet.” #Cubs #Redsox #wheresmokethereisfire
Odds, my friend, we only disagree on him getting another shot here to do it. I hope I’m right, and I know you do, too!
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“When I read people on Twitter write things like “Yankees should just get Kershaw” , it makes me wonder if there are delusional fans somewhere writing “We should just get Cano”.”
Seriously …..I think a lotof Yankee fans are really knowledgeable and understand how the game works…..but their is a vocal majority of them that they are clueless and give us all a bad name (some of them have jobs on the radio or newspapers) Cashman didn’t trade for Felix or Kershaw so he’s a bum etc…..
Hughes also leads the league in pitches per inning over his career, so he has “pitched more” in the innings he has thrown than anyone else.
Sometimes being more effective is all you need to gain the perception of “stamina”.
We poke fun at Theo a lot around here and I don’t think he’s been very good lately……but if he goes to Chicago that’s a big loss for Boston IMO
Teams that could throw money @ Soriano:
AL: Angels, Blue Jays, Orioles, Twins, White Sox
NL: Astros (oops, no money), Dodgers (ditto Astros), Mets, Phillies, Rockies.
There’s enough cash and openings @ Closer to go around.
Superficially, I’ve always liked Mark Buehrle.
blake – supposedly, the Red Sox have been steadily grooming Ben Cherington for several years. The smart (?) money have him stepping up. In that case, the Red Sox likely would not miss a beat, for better or worse.
I think it’s clear that Lucchino and Henry want a fresh look. It’s easier to replace two front guys than 25. Or 40, if you want to include the 40-man roster.
The top-tier FA closers on the market will get 3-4 year contracts from teams that have the resources. That’s what Soriano wants. If someone offers him 4 @ $10M/year, he’ll take it. Doesn’t matter if his arm falls off next year. It’s guaranteed! It beats 2 years @ whatever’s left ($22 or $24M).
Ledger_Yankees Yankees GM Brian Cashman won’t make decisions on playoff performance: Cashman: “It’s something I had to learn.” http://bit.ly/nkvOl8
DaSaint007 – one would think that after the Johnny Damon FA fiasco, Scott Boras would try and get a better sense of the market for his client, Soriano in this case.
I get why Cashman feels that way – maybe it’s in part because except for Swisher, there’s not much he can do with the lineup
Joe from Long Island October 11th, 2011 at 4:50 pm
DaSaint007 – one would think that after the Johnny Damon FA fiasco, Scott Boras would try and get a better sense of the market for his client, Soriano in this case.
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I don’t think Boras will ever learn, and I think for him and his clients, it’s about years, and the longer the better.
Buehrle had similar #s to Garcia this season. Buehrle’s stats then Garcia:
ERA 3.59 to 3.62
W/L 13-9 to 12-8
WHIP 1.3 to 1.34
LH hit .251 to .284
RH hit .288 to .255
He’s a lefty . If he’d take a two year 12 M contract I’d take him over a returning Garcia who made 1.5M with the ability to make another 3.6M in bonuses based on starts.
Anyway, I just REALLY, REALLY want Soriano off this team, as I think he’s an overly expensive 7th inning arm. The resources could be better used elsewhere.
YT – My concern with Buehrle is the 2 runs difference between his home ERA (2.66) and his road ERA (4.51). His success this year was largely hidden by him only giving up 9 HR’s at home. With the cell being a fairly homer-happy environment, this is not likely to last.
Joe,
Maybe you’re right bud…..Theo did build what’s there though. Does Carmine stay or go if he leaves?
Texiera’s horrible BA is not a sample size issue it is 2 years. 220 lefty this year. also his obp is down it is not just BA his OBP is down……..
if texiera cannot increase obp and BA move him down in the order….especially lefty….
Buerle wouldn’t want to come to NY I don’t think.
Soriano’s contract:
3 years/$35M (2011-13)
signed by NY Yankees as a free agent 1/14/11
11:$10M, 12:$11M, 13:$14M
Soriano may opt out and take $1.5M buyout after either 2011 or 2012 seasons
So essentially if he opts out he’s made 11.5M this year and would need > then 25M for two years to top what he’s due if he stays with the Yankees.
Cashman-tell Boras we’ll sign Beltran if you get Soriano to opt out!
May we can trade Tex to Arizona for Justin Upton after we trade Arod for Ian Kennedy
In 2010 Buehrle only gave up 6 home runs at home yet his home ERA was 4.89.
Free agent LH Mark Buehrle ………………
http://whitesox.mlb.com/team/p....._id=279824
Tom in NJ – Yeah i just noticed that… not sure if that’s better or worse though
Either way, he’s much more the 4ERA pitcher than the under 3 ERA pitcher. no thanks.
blake October 11th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
May we can trade Tex to Arizona for Justin Upton after we trade Arod for Ian Kennedy
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I’m still cracking up over that one.
I just heard in the radio that Kenny Williams considered making Konerko the player/manager before hiring Robin Ventura…….ah that crazy Kenny.
The Yankees seemed to have already decided that Joba is a reliever. After the injury, no chance he will be a starter for the Yankees. Don’t waste your time hoping for that. Just hope he can make it back early in the season and be an effective reliever.
I like Nova, but I agree it is mistake to take it as a given he is a 15 win pitcher. One year does not a career make. See Hughes for example.
I very much think they should add Wilson or Danks. However, I doubt either will happen as the player and/or money costs will be high. I would offer Wilson Burnett money, but that may not be enough.
ID-
Good point. I don’t necessarily want Buehrle but upon further review at his vs Garcia’s stats vs AL East opponents, he’d be a good catch for an AL East club.
Buehrle vs Garcia ERA
Orioles 1.84 vs 4.35
Boston 3.00 vs 4.74
Toronto 1.93 vs 6.00
TB no appearance vs 0.00
NYY 3.86
I know this is a small sample and dependant on when they played, other teams injuries,etc, but if given the chance to sign Buehrle vs Garcia i’d go with the younger Buehrle.
gotta have a sense of humor when you can say Clemens was lean before coming to NY or Toronto. Christ you make it sound like he was a willow. He was 6’5 and 230-235 in his later Boston years and got up to about 245-250 pounds. Hughes is 6’5″ and about 235-240. Hardly a tub of lard. I’d prefer that he ended the heavy weight lifting that’s making him big in the chest, but, even Pettitte was into heavy weights. Pettitte and Hughes are the same size.
All of the BS from the usual suspect. I suggest that you look at Hughes’ games after returning from the DL in July. 11 starts….3 bad.
blake – I’m not sure how much of the Red Sox success is due to Theo’s input. Most of the 2004 team was in place when he came on board in ’03, and that core was responsible for ’07. Beckett and Lowell reportedly obtained when he was on his gorilla sabbatical; a deal he was reported as against, because he did not want to trade Hanley Ramirez. His FA signings – Lugo, Cameron, Crawford, Penny, Smoltz, Drew – draw scorn. The farm system is barren. It may be this track record that has drawn Henry’s ire.
We’ll see what he accomplishes with the Cubs, and Tom Ricketts’ money.
Jap, I hope he does get another shot here I just doubt he will. They wouldn’t even give him a shot this ST
I agree with Cashman to some extent that you can’t let playoff performance dictate how you build a team, but he said the same thing in 2009 regarding Damon and Matsui, and the Yanks haven’t had much clutch hitting in the playoffs ever since.
The playoffs are a small sample size, but Tex and Swisher’s sample size are only getting larger. Players who perform well in the regular season don’t always have postseason success… the pressure is immense, especially in New York. If there was only a way for Swish to calm down during the playoffs… he’s always so keyed up and you can see the nervousness on his face.
Joe,
The system is barren now……but was pretty good a couple of years ago…..its just that all those guys are in the bigs now. Lester, Papelbon, Bard, Bucholtz, Youkallos, Pedroria ……that’s 6 pretty good ones. Im not trying to champion Theo because he’s been bad lately…
Austin Jackson has k’ed 14 times this postseason and is still batting lead off. Fire Leyland!
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