Sabathia still in “wait and see” mode
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 11, 2011 
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CC Sabathia gathered his things at Yankee Stadium yesterday, and on his way out, he told the New York Post that he has yet to begin any sort of contract discussions with the Yankees.
“Of course it would be (difficult to leave),” Sabathia told Mark Hale. “It was difficult for me to leave Milwaukee. But you understand that baseball is a business. I do love it here. My family loves it here. But we’ll have to wait and see what happens.”
Sabathia has until three days after the end of the World Series to decide whether to opt out, so an official decision might not come for a couple of weeks.
No real surprise that the Yankees and Sabathia have not yet started talking — I would think the Yankees want to settle Brian Cashman’s situation first — but surely those conversations are coming soon. The expectation remains that the two sides will ultimately stay together, but losing Sabathia would change this offseason considerably for the Yankees.
My prediction:
1 year and a fair vesting option will be added to his contract……meaning that he gets an additional year guaranteed and then a 6th year triggers at similar money if he’s healthy…..(thrown a certain number of innings the previous year etc.)
Hopefully this will be ironed out prior to him using the opt out clause.
Cash is the first order if business……then Sabathia……and then working the trade market.
I hate all of the opt-out drama. LOL
Blake-I hope they work something out soon too.
Blake,
After watching pujold’s performance last night, could you imagine if he were playing 1B for the yankees? WOW!
I’m with you Erin….
My guess is there won’t be any more “opt-out” clauses in the future. Soriano has the last one, but no one seems concerned about it.
Blake’s prediction looks pretty solid as well. Guarantee him five more years with 6th or even 7th years vesting. I think CC is low risk because his fluid motion minimizes stress on his arm. David Wells was the same way.
As soon as Cashman is signed, C.C. will be his 1st priority of business.
Prior to last night, Pujols had 1 RBI in the first 6 postseason games.
Yankee fans would have calling for Montero to play instead of him last night.
CC will ask for something comparable to Lee’s deal and he’ll get it. You’ll pay for diminished returns in the long run – but that’s why Cash is trying to grow pitching on the farm
The Yankees current 40-man roster ………..
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....p?c_id=nyy
Good morning-
Sabathia has four years and $92 million remaining on his deal ($23 million annually).
Last offseason, the Yankees offered Cliff Lee seven years and $146 million (approximately $20.9 million per season), and Lee was a year older (32) than Sabathia is now.
Weren’t those 7 years guaranteed? If so Sabathia will want an extension of 3 years-no vesting or performance options.
if CC is going to stay wouldn’t he just come out and say I’m going to stay. More then not likely he is going to opt out and hit the Yanks up for more money.
5 years @ $25 million per, 6th and 7th years, mutual options. Maybe a few million signing bonus thrown in.
Yankee fans would have calling for Montero to play instead of him last night.
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No chance.
Pujols hit 350 .409 .500 in the NLDS
A strong contributing farm helps the Yankees to dollar cost average some of the larger salaries.
Position players usually can be had for less than premium pricing but the rotation is where the savings can really be meaningful.
The first two years of his contract, CC is all “I would never opt out”. In his last year, “I just might”.
I know baseball is a business, but his earlier statements leave a bad taste. 3 years of CC was good.
Gotta say, I approve of the Grandyman in glasses
http://www.daylife.com/photo/0.....rk+Yankees
It’s called, his agent called and told him to put a lid on it.
Also, in between the earlier statements and the current stance was the Yankees’ offer to Lee.
The offer to Cliff Lee was upped to 7 years and 161M after the RS had just signed Crawford to a 7 year 142M contract the day before.
Very leery of giving CC 3 more years, but he has all the leverage, as there are no FA lefties that are #1′s this year. Plus he has a no trade clause and other perks.
Buehrle stats are similar to Garcia’s this year.
CJ Wilson has been terrible this postseason.
BIG FAT TUB OF GOO.
I would support CC’s ‘business” decision, if he had not gained 40 lbs in august and tanked the Detroit series. He wants to be rewarded for being irresponsible with his weight and failing in the post season. Upside down.
Gotta say, I approve of the Grandyman in glasses.
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Guess he wears contact lenses during games. Hopefully all the hitters will get eye exams soon to see if that contributed to off seasons for many-Tex go get your head, oops eyes examined, and then learn to hit the other way and become that hitter you used to be from the left side when you hit .303 in 2008 from the left side.
At least with the lockout CC can’t go to any Knicks games and tell everyone he’s not opting out
From an August 4th RAB’s article-
Packing on the pounds (again)
By Mike Axisa .
A whole lot was made of CC Sabathia‘s weight loss earlier this year, as the big left-hander shed 30 lbs. during the offseason and reported to camp at 290 lbs. for the first time in what I imagine is years. He’s gained some of weight back during the season though, something CC readily admitted to George King. “I gained ten back but I feel good, feel strong,” said Sabathia. “This [winter] I will get under 290. It’s easier to work out in the offseason than it is during the season. During the season I have to make sure I stay strong and feel good.”
vrsce-where did you hear that CC gained 40 lbs in August? Are you assuming that he regained the 30 lbs he shed in the offseason plus the 10 lbs?
“Bill Madden wrote in his column that in the last 6-8 weeks of the season, Sabathia put on 35-40 pounds.”
Madden’s Oct. 8 column
“As with Rodriguez, when he opted out, the Yankees are facing diminishing returns with Sabathia. Whatever amount of money and years they add on for the 31-year-old pitcher, whose efficiency as a No. 1 declined significantly the last eight weeks of the season as he put on 35-40 pounds of girth, will prove to be another onerous contract. And then there’s Mark Teixeira, who’s owed $112 million through 2016.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....z1aTvBqUWl
After Lee signed Im.pretty sure it came out that the Yankees never guaranteed a 7th year to Lee.
Pujols and Tex aren’t even in the same ballpark as hitters anymore against RHP. Tex transforms into Carlos Pena when a righty is on the mound. It’s a real issue as the lineup was designed for him to be an important piece every day……
LGY
I was kidding (thus the
).
Although no HRs, 1 RBI, more Ks than BB in the DS, 4 for 5 in a losing game and 3 for 15 the rest of the series. He might have fit in just right playing 1B with the Yankees despite the BA. (kidding again- sorta)
40 lbs in 8 weeks? Not buying it.
vrsce-
Thanks for including the NY Daily news article. A-Rod still owed 143M, Tex 112M and Sabathia 92M.
Let’s say CC opts out and wants to play for a contending team. Which team will give him 7 years @ 25M /year?
I tend to think the 6 man rotation stuff and the fact that he threw both times in the playoffs on 2 days rest had more to do with his struggles than anything else.
He looked dominant in Game 1 before the rain.
CC isn’t going anywhere…..if he does the Yankees will sign Wilson and Pujols
Yankee Trader
CC will be staying. i was just pointing out that his character and self discipline are questionable.
CC has had a rubber arm, just like David Wells who also carried the “girth”. CC may dimish, but you need an anchor on this staff. Remember what happened here when Andy Pettite left and then returned. What will CC be at the end of this? Hopefully an Andy Petttite type pitcher for us. By that point you hope the youngsters step up. The Arod situation was pressure point. There was no suitable alternative unless you gave away the farm to pick up Cabrera who proved he couldn’t even play 1st base or Beltre possibly, who to that point only proved that he played well in walk years and wasn’t exactly dazzling in Seattle. I am not saying Arod was a good contract or CC’s will be fantastic either, what I am saying is sometimes in a big market you wear these deals to continue to get there every year. If everyone is onboard that we go backwards right now and wait for the youngsters with an aging Arod and Jeter than that’s a different story. But the way it is lined up, CC gets resigned, we ride these contracts out while working cheap ones in Hughes, Gardner, Nova, Joba, Robertson, Nunez, Banuelos, Betcances, Montero etc. Cano will also be part of that large contract group soon enough.
How is CCs character questionable? He’s a big guy…..as mentioned earlier so was Wells…….however they both have great deliverers and therefore are rarely hurt.
CC struggled down the stretch……but he also pitched his best since he signed with the Yankees at times also.
pat
I know you were kidding but you are making it sound like people were just irrationally calling for players to be benched based on a few bad games.
Pujols is a historically great hitter in both the regular season and postseason.
Tex, Swisher, and Martin on the other hand are historically awful postseason performers. We are talking players who have set records for their futility in October.
I know you are partly kidding but calling for Montero over Pujols is crazy and mock worthy. Yankee fans wanting to give Montero PT over those three was absolutely justifiable and may have cost the Yankees a trip to the ALCS.
Another Jet opening on Evan and Joe. Why don’t they just change their station name to JETS. Its all they ever talk about.
CC posing with Miley Cyrus the mornign of his last start vs. Detroit:
http://rickipediablog.blogspot.....plank.html
They didn’t want to give Montero playing time over those players though. His playing time would have come at the expense of a very productive Posada, which was stupid.
Tex is a bigger problem than Swisher…..Swisher is just easier to fix. The offense was never meant to be built around Swisher…..he was always a complimentary piece. Tex was supposed to be the cornerstone …….and he’s that type of hitter vs LHP still…..but he’s not getting it done from the left side and hasn’t for 2 seasons now. I hope he’s serious about reworking his swing…..because if he doesn’t its going to get worse not better.
Oh, please, let’s not start with the “Montero should have pinch hit” stuff again. I can’t take it anymore!!!!
CC’s character is certainly questionable. he stated a # of times that he would not opt out. then he utterly fails in the post season and decides he will opt out. If he had not porked out and has won at least one game, then fine, chnge your mind and go for the cash. but to expect a larger longer contract after 40 lbs and utter post season failure is not a sign of good character. Just extortion.
blake – bingo. Tex needs to be serious about fixing that swing. I think he can do it, as opposed to G.Love who is pretty pessimistic about it. Hey, Granderson had a well-deserved reputation for not hitting lefty pitching. So, if that can be fixed, so can Tex. He’s got enough talent to pull it off.
Tex vs RHP is a much bigger issue for the offense than Granderson vs LHP was pre-swing change. There are twice as many RHPers and they can’t platoon Tex.
“CC’s character is certainly questionable. he stated a # of times that he would not opt out. then he utterly fails in the post season and decides he will opt out.”
1) he’s hasn’t opted outthat yet 2) please…..its a business and if the Yankees didn’t want him to use a clause that guarantees him more money them they shouldn’t have given it to him.
Hassey October 11th, 2011 at 10:20 am
Cruel man, cruel. I did get a chuckle out of it though. That poor guy.
Of course it is a business. Character has nothing to do with it. So you can easily make the case that he has not got much. Being rewarded for failure is good business indeed, but that is as far as it goes.
“I think he can do it, as opposed to G.Love who is pretty pessimistic about it.”
I think he can also……he’s only 31and he can still hit from the right side……but he’s going to have to commit to it……hitting the way he does now left handed isn’t going to work in his mid 30s…..it already doesn’t. Even if he struggles he has to change the mechanics of how he swings the bat……if he can’t then he needs to just stop switch hitting…..normally you never recommend that but I just think if he doesn’t make some drastic changes then its going to get to the point where he just cant play vs RHP.
If winning 19 games and being a Cy young candidate 3 straight years…….winning 59 games in 3 years is rewarding failure …….then ok……
Long needs to work with Teix quickly to get a new swing then Teix can work on it all off season because he has a batting cage. If he can’t adjust then this becomes a huge problem.
He was not a CY Young candidate after mid august, when he tanked the season in favor of his belly.
Part of the reason CC signed was because he was offered an opt-out in his contract.
You can’t offer the opt-out, then criticize the guy’s character for considering using it.
He is welcome to the opt out, they gave it to him. However he failed and wants a longer, richer contract. why don’t you try that?
From an August 4th RAB’s article-
Packing on the pounds (again)
By Mike Axisa .
A whole lot was made of CC Sabathia‘s weight loss earlier this year, as the big left-hander shed 30 lbs. during the offseason and reported to camp at 290 lbs. for the first time in what I imagine is years. He’s gained some of weight back during the season though, something CC readily admitted to George King. “I gained ten back but I feel good, feel strong,” said Sabathia. “This [winter] I will get under 290. It’s easier to work out in the offseason than it is during the season. During the season I have to make sure I stay strong and feel good.”
vrsce-where did you hear that CC gained 40 lbs in August? Are you assuming that he regained the 30 lbs he shed in the offseason plus the 10 lbs?
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a pitcher pitches every 5 days. he has 1 throwing session in between. the rest of the time? what, the guy can’t control his diet or use an elliptical machine? how does a pitcher *gain* weight during a season? an everyday player i can understand, b/c well…they play everyday. they may not have enough energy to work out before or after a game.
but a pitcher? it’s inexcusable.
being a yankee gm is tough as heck. you have to cater to the owners who have to put out a worthy product b/c they charge so much for tickets. so cashman will be *forced* to re-sign CC.
but his weight is a big red flag.
will it ever get to the point where the yankees say “ok, that’s enough” and walk away from big ticket free agents? people don’t want to play in ny and only really come here for the money…
The team failed…….CC didn’t look significantly heavier than always to me.
I hope one day you get fired from your job for “only” doing the equivalent of winning 19+ games on average for three years.
He put on 40 lbs (NY Daily News, Oct.8/11) pitched poorly in late aug/sept. completely failed in the playoffs. so call it success if you wish. that is why he will get a raise.
Joe from Long Island October 11th, 2011 at 10:27 am
blake – bingo. Tex needs to be serious about fixing that swing. I think he can do it, as opposed to G.Love who is pretty pessimistic about it. Hey, Granderson had a well-deserved reputation for not hitting lefty pitching. So, if that can be fixed, so can Tex. He’s got enough talent to pull it off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It’s well known that Teixeira is a product of his father’s teaching. It’s reached a point in his age where he’ll lose some bat speed and will be better served being a product of Kevin Long’s teaching.
He’s continued to try and defy the shift put on for him and on numerous cases he could easily hit a soft liner to LF and keep a rally going. Live by the home run – die by the home run. He needs to realize that the HR’s will eventually come by themselves.
.CC didn’t look significantly heavier than always to me.
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His WL+ metric disagrees
blake October 11th, 2011 at 10:49 am
The team failed…….CC didn’t look significantly heavier than always to me.
===================
Blake, I beg to differ. Towards the end of the season CC was huge. The other day in one of Chads posts there was a picture of CC in the post which did not do him justice.
I, too, believe everything the NY Daily News prints. And I believe September games are meaningful. I also think one less than stellar series (one game plus one relief appearance) is enough to say a pitcher is washed up.
CC can’t project 7 years into the future and say with certainty that he will be an ace? He is an obese man that faltered the last two months of the season. He is a fatty.
Cashman would be a fool to up the yearly amount since the NYY would be outbidding themselves imo. What team can afford to pay CC more than what he is currently making? Philadelphia and Boston are two huge candidates that could try to sign him.
You have to re-sign CC. It’s just a tougher pill to swallow now and the Yankees are going to need to probably play a little more hardball than previously anticipated.
Madden is a complete and utter clown. I hope he or one of his minions are reading this blog to understand the level of disgust the fans have for him. Why try to inflame a situation like this? What does it accomplish? He’s a turkey, plain and simple, who knows nothing more than the average guy riding the subway. Why read him?
Enough of the weight issues with CC. He is just like David Wells, who was a decent pitcher into his 40s. The only issue is to protect his back (hopefully they learned from Wells). He’s getting an extension, hopefully before any opt out drama. Maybe his conditioning will be better next year so he doesn’t fade–I think being on every 5 days instead of 6 will give him more work and help with that as well.
The Yankees need CC big time, and they will pay for him. Period.
He shouldn’t get the offer Lee didn’t sign, he should get the offer Lee took which is fair for both sides.
Mutual options basically mean no option in a deal this size. The 6th year option should be vesting based on innings pitched with a large buyout just like Lee’s.
But CC’s agent is going to want a guaranteed 6th year which is fine because that’s his job. And CC might have gotten it too but IMO there won’t be a team willing to give it because of his weight & workload.
He’s always huge…..he’s always got a gut. They screwed him up with the 6 man stuff down the stretch and then he pitched with weird rest in the playoffs also……it affected Verlander also…..he just got the outside corner and CC didn’t. I think those things were much greater factors than his weight.
At least everyone can agree on this statement:
CC is a “Doughboy”.
“Many pointed to Sabathia’s physical condition as a cause for his struggles down the stretch – he went 4-3 with a 4.06 ERA over his final 10 starts – but Cashman said he has no plan to insert a weight clause into any new deal.
“When we signed him, we knew his weight was an issue and that’s not going to change,” Cashman said. “But he’s very successful at what he does.”
NY Daily News.
The biggest issue is how long his lower back can stay healthy with that huge overstuffed gut hanging over his belt. This is a serious issue with the Captn Krunch risk increasing on an annual basis.
CC a 6’8″ doughboy who pitches hurt and hasn’t had any serious arm issues. 10 pounds on his frame means a lot less than 10 pounds on someone else. I don’t doubt that the weight longer term potentially effects the knee or maybe the back like Wells. But the arm is the thing I would be most concerned about. I am not going to have an issue with a pitcher that wants to be out there, represents this team well and is a workhorse, throwing mid 90s from the left hand side.
Since CC views the opt out as part of the business of baseball, he better not hold a grudge if negotiations become tough. 99% of the teams out there won’t be able to afford a 7 year 25 million dollar contract. Stay sharp Cash, and don’t allow this baseball union thug to mug you.
Sure, except he lost,lost, lost,and wants a raise, no wonder the country is in the tank. You all want to reward failure.
CC can start a jobs program to help the unemployed. Hire a full-time cereal expert to locate the finest flavors available of Captn Krunch? The cereal stimulus!
Yes reward CC’s failure with an extension and higher yearly salary? Sounds like a bunch of drunken politicians on a spending spree.
Why stop rewarding guys? Did we not reward Arod, Jeter, Posada, etc? CC coming back is argueably far more important than any of those three no matter how much Jeter and Posada had given us over the years. To win now it is obvious CC in needed. We would not have made the playoffs without him. Think about it if he never came in the first place. AJ would be our #1 for the 2009 season and no WS.
The teams that could afford to sign CC at that rate are the following:
1.) Boston
2.) Philly
3.) Milwaukee
4.) Nationals
5.) Cubs
6.) Angels
7.) Texas
8.) O’s
Also, the Tigers
I am somewhat pessimistic on Texeira fixing his swing. Granderson was younger when it happened and he was about to become a platoon bench player if he didn’t fix it. Tex is locked into the Yankees at big dollars for the next 5 years. He’s going nowhere.
Since he’s come here and the shift developed against him early on, he’s continued to mash into the shift. I just can’t say off of one post season at bat when he hit the ball the opposite way and did nothing else that he’s going to be fixed.
Long can work with him but if the changes don’t make sense to him it could be another long season of struggling from the left side. A lot of you are assuming the changes Long suggests will work. Well, Long gave Jeter swing changes and those were thrown out because Jeter couldn’t adjust to them. It wasn’t because Long’s fix was wrong necessarily, it’s because the player has to feel comfortable and confident with the swing changes. It’s about execution.
Tex, appears to me, to be a little mentally weak at times. A guy who lacks confidence and falls into the kind of putrid long slumps he does may not be the right kind of pupil for the kind of changes his swing and approach are going to need. If he doesn’t see instant results he’ll blame the changes on making things worse and go back to his 220 hitting style from the left side.
Could he prove me wrong? Definitely. In fact, I hope he does. The Yankees aren’t going to go deep into the post season with a middle of the order 1b who can’t hit RHP to save his life.
I’ve just seen the rapid decline since he put on the Yankees uniform. You look at the numbers and they keep getting worse.
The best thing that can happen is Long gets through to him and he finds confidence in the changes. If he has any doubts about the changes he’s going to make, he’ll struggle in my opinion.
I hope he doesn’t. We’re losing chances at a lot of top 1b the past few years who would be worth the kind of contract dollars Tex’s guaranteed. Tex isn’t playing up to his contract or spot in the order. If you think he is, you have blinders on.
It’s over Yankee fans. Give it a rest !!!!!!!!!!!!!
At a height of 6’7″, 300 lbs CC’s BMI is 33.8 which puts him in the classification of obese.
Attached an interesting article from the American College of Gastroenterology.
“Researchers collected and studied the cardiometabolic syndrome parameters of 69 current professional football players and 155 current professional baseball players. Parameters studied included blood pressure, fasting glucose, triglycerides, waist circumference, high density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, body mass index, waist?to?height ratio, insulin resistance and levels of alanine aminotransferase, an indicator of fatty liver disease.”
http://www.acg.gi.org/media/re.....cRisks.pdf
There are legitimate concerns that an extension of CC’s contract could be frought with more than just hip, back, or knee arthritis
“There are legitimate concerns that an extension of CC’s contract could be frought with more than just hip, back, or knee arthritis”
Diabetes is just around the corner.
vrsce – Come up with a solution, rather than just harping on CC “failing” (which is… ridiculous).
YankeesPR Joe Girardi heading to the Stadium today to meet with the media at noon; you can watch live on @YESNetwork
G. Love-
Teixeira apparently concentrated heavily last offseason on his swing, laying off the heavy weight training, and did work with Long, both inseason in 2010 and in the offseason in January.
http://www.sportsgulp.net/?p=612
“Long can work with him but if the changes don’t make sense to him it could be another long season of struggling from the left side. A lot of you are assuming the changes Long suggests will work. ”
I don’t assume….I hope…..it’s not going to be easy by any stretch but this is different than Jeter….Tex HAS to change his swing……it just wont work as he ages. Derek keeps the bat in the zone forever…..his was an issue of jumping out in front and rolling over everything ……Tex’s is a swing plane issue that is only going to worsen as age diminishes his bat speed and timing.
I said two years ago that his LH swing worried me for the future because it just requires such perfect timing……he either needs to fix it or stop switch hitting……because its going to get worse if he doesn’t.
Aren’t any of these physicians seeing patients today?
If CC had won his game 1, and/or the Yankees had gone on to win the ALDS, none of you would care about his weight gain. Or at least not nearly as much. Or not nearly as many of you.
You’re also taking the possibility of an opt-out personally.
The minute he signed a contract with an opt-out, you had to know he was going to use it, even if in the first year and a half of his deal he said he had no intention of doing so. Things change. Situations change. And agents tend to get involved where money is concerned.
My only hope is the Yankees and CC/CC’s agent get together to sign an extension before he opts out. Because once he opts out anything can happen. And like it or not the Yankees need CC more than CC needs the Yankees.
If CC leaves, next year is that “bridge year” or two or three. Or, all of a sudden Manny Banuelos will be proclaimed ready to pitch at the MLB level, because there are no – ZERO – left-handers in the rotation.
Hire a full-time cereal expert to locate the finest flavors available of Captn Krunch
*********************
Let’s show some respect to the Captain, shall we? It’s Cap’n Crunch.
OK, if CC opts out, don’t re-sign him. Allow who was literally the only surefire piece of the rotation to go. Or re-sign him. And complain non-stop about how he was selfish and should have played out his contract (of course ignoring the fact that an opt out is part of that contract).
I want to thank the good Lord for NOT making you people a Yankee GM
CC, Tex, & A-Rod had down seasons. All 3 are on the edge of mediocrity. A-Rod was a no show in the playoffs. His last 2 at bats were embarrassing !!!
if CC opts out and the yankees don’t take part in the bidding process, does CC get as good a contract as he has now?
the yankees should let CC know they hope he doesn’t opt out, but if he does, they will not take part in the auction for his services.
they call it hardball for a reason.
New Post: Joe Girardi’s press conference
I think the Yankees need Sabathia back. He will likely want 3 more years added to his current contract. IMO those 3 years should be based on # starts, with a sliding scale in salary. This puts emphasis on Sabathia to stay healthy and helps protect the Yankees in the event he develops back, knee, hip, or HBP and other medical conditions that shorten his career.
randy, they could say that all they want. and CC’s agent will laugh. a lot
VNY
If CC leaves, next year is that “bridge year” or two or three. Or, all of a sudden Manny Banuelos will be proclaimed ready to pitch at the MLB level, because there are no – ZERO – left-handers in the rotation.
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Banuelos isn’t ready. What it means if CC leaves is that CJW’s price goes up.
But I think CC will stay.
The Tigers have zero left handers in their rotation. Doesn’t seem terribly important.
# Melkmanisinhotlanta October 11th, 2011 at 11:19 am
Yes reward CC’s failure with an extension and higher yearly salary? Sounds like a bunch of drunken politicians on a spending spree.
”———————————————————–
They can always let him walk