Granderson and Cano heading to Taiwan
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 14, 2011 
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Curtis Granderson and Robinson Cano are among the headliners for a group of Major League Baseball players traveling to Taiwan next month to play a five-game series against the Chinese Taipei national team. A few details from MLB…
The Taiwan All-Star Series will consist of five games played between November 1st-6th in three different cities – New Taipei City (XinZhuang Stadium) on November 1st, Taichung (Intercontinental Stadium) on November 3rd and 4th and Kaohsiung (Chengcing Lake Stadium) on November 5th and 6th. Each game will feature MLB All-Stars playing the Chinese Taipei national team and all games will be broadcast live in Taiwan by FTV, Major League Baseball’s exclusive over-the-air broadcaster for regular season and Postseason games.
Not all of the roster has been announced just yet, but the team will be managed by Bruce Bochy of the Giants. The roster so far includes:
PITCHERS
Bill Bray, Reds
Ross Detwiler, Nationals
Dillon Gee, Mets
Jeremy Guthrie, Orioles
Mark Melancon, Astros
Jose Veras, Pirates
CATCHERS
Drew Butera, Twins
Jeff Mathis, Angels
INFIELDERS
Erick Aybar, Angels
Miguel Cabrera, Tigers
Robinson Cano, Yankees
Michael Morse, Nationals
Ryan Roberts, Diamondbacks
Pablo Sandoval, Giants
Skip Schumaker, Cardinals
Danny Valencia, Twins
OUTFIELDERS
Emilio Bonifacio, Marlins
Curtis Granderson, Yankees
Logan Morrison, Marlins
The roster includes a not that Cabrera’s participating is “subject to postseason commitments” but includes no such note for Schmaker, who’s also still playing. The roster includes open spots for at least one more infielder, one more outfielder, a third catcher and it lists six additional spots for pitchers.
Associated Press photos
Cano and Cabrera in the same lineup!
Jap, I’m always lurking just waiting to jump in.
Great. Don’t get hurt.
Cabrera’s commitment subject to removal of alcohol ban?
repost (because it it got quite the reaction!)
He said what?!
“Henry vehemently disagreed with the perception that Francona was fired, saying that the manager instead chose to leave. Henry did say, however, that the options would not have been picked up if Francona had expressed a desire to stay. ”
http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/…..y-francona
Henry’s handlers should make sure that he doesn’t take any pain medication before speaking to the media.
Speaking of…where’s Pat M. this morning? I’m ready for a vocabulary lesson!
So Henry refutes that he was fired……but says he was going to be had he not quit.
Against All Odds October 14th, 2011 at 5:40 pm
Jap, I’m always lurking just waiting to jump in.
//
I know how to get you in here. Just drop the “J” word ;D, although it was Yankee Trader who brought it up this time.
blake,
Henry is a bit of snake in the financial field? Expert in semantics?
Hmm, tough combo… hope he’s alright.
M,
Let’s stick with snake. Maybe we will get some more drunk blogging from Pat M tonight
OK Blake, Jerkface and Prufrock-
You’ve sold me on the merits of bringing back Joba as a starter!
Anybody who’s ever been in Francona’s position should say the same thing: “You cant fire me, I quit!” Been there, done that. At least you keep your dignity, unlike the Sox, from top to bottom.
Hey Chad, why not ask Cashman if they’d ever revisit making Joba a starter again? Why not ask Rothschild if Joba would make a decent starter? Some books just need to be re-opened and re-written.
tomingeorgia, Corialanus said “I banish THEE!”
.
JAP – When you renew your season tickets put on the check “payable only if Joba is made a starter”.
Yankee Trader October 14th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
OK Blake, Jerkface and Prufrock-
You’ve sold me on the merits of bringing back Joba as a starter!
////
Wish Cash & Co were so easy…(but I do wonder if they’re not thinking this way themselves…that kid is in tip top shape & tight with Rothschild…maybe conditional promises have been made…)
G. Love October 14th, 2011 at 5:55 pm
JAP – When you renew your season tickets put on the check “payable only if Joba is made a starter”.
///
LOL, I deserve that. I’m actually considering dropping them. In fact, if you’ve already dumped them, the Yankees are running a “rentention” campaign. Perhaps I will make that my condition….The reason I’m considering it is because the secondary market is so miserable…I don’t scalp my tix, but when I don’t go, I’d like to atleast recoup face for them. Probably will cave & get them again, in truth.
Yes Yankee Trader got the ball rolling and I thank him for that
The Yankees have given up on Joba as a starter, and that definitely won’t change after the injury.
Odds, I see Nardi all the time in Trenton, & I’ve thought about picking his brain a little on this…but I’m a little mature in years to pull the fanboy thing…
I’m wondering if I can get press credentials next season as fake Peter Gammons. I’d even wear the powdered wig if I had to.
Jacksquat, TJ has made for stronger arms. With an enlightened pitching coach who seems to have hit it off with Joba, I’m not throwing in the towel just yet.
JAP,
Sorry, did I corrupt your air?
J. Alfred Prufrock October 14th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
Hey Chad, why not ask Cashman if they’d ever revisit making Joba a starter again?
——————-
Cashman would give the same answers that he always does: stuff plays better in the pen, we feel he can be lights out as a reliever, etc
Is Pete Abe really trying to spin Henry’s radio appearance as a positive?
I guess you don’t need competent PR people if you have the media doing the job for you.
I didn’t care to listen or read the transcript of the interview, but it sounds like Henry threw tons of people under the bus… Why is Pete Abe praising him for accountability?
“I’m wondering if I can get press credentials next season as fake Peter Gammons. I’d even wear the powdered wig if I had to.”
Lol….Ill make you some wooden teeth to wear
J. Alfred Prufrock October 14th, 2011 at 6:03 pm
Odds, I see Nardi all the time in Trenton, & I’ve thought about picking his brain a little on this…but I’m a little mature in years to pull the fanboy thing
—————
Yea that could be a little awkward. Just mentioning Joba and starter in the same sentence would cause his head to explode.
Because Pete abe is a red Sox fan and he can only trash them so long…..the rest of the media will soon follow suit and rebuild the Sox name. I can see the headlines now. “RED SOX RISE LIKE A PHOENIX OUT OF THE ASHES”
Odds, Contreras likes to talk.
tomingeorgia October 14th, 2011 at 6:05 pm
JAP,
Sorry, did I corrupt your air?
///
No, sir! But sounds like you’ve had yours corrupted and I’ve been there, too. We both found out there is a world elsewhere, where the air is sweeter
.
blake-
Gordon Edes already picked them to win the 2012 WS on espn.com/boston. I kid you not.
Where is Pete spinning this?
I know Cafardo or Pete gave credit to someone or other for speaking up and being accountable, unlike Henry. They think he should come out and apologize for the whole mess and promise to clean it up. Looks like he promised to clean up the mess, but Henry sounds neither apologetic nor accountable.
The silly part about the whole thing is that Cherryberry and the assistant GM of the Cubs are negotiating the terms of Theo’s release from the Sox. Well, really, the silly part is that Theo was in his office yesterday like nothing happened, surrounded by all the assistants that have been deemed untouchable to Theo.
I wonder how many pink hats will drop their season plans in fenway.
Maybe in Henry’s Bizarro World Theo is leaving. But if he doesn’t, they’re going to fire him anyway.
Tyler,
Best team ever take 2
m
@PeteAbe
Big picture: The owner has to be the adult in the room and look at the big picture. Henry is showing that.
@PeteAbe
Henry’s interview is over. Pretty good stuff. Could be the start of a turning point of sorts
m October 14th, 2011 at 6:16 pm
Where is Pete spinning this?
I know Cafardo or Pete gave credit to someone or other for speaking up and being accountable, unlike Henry. They think he should come out and apologize for the whole mess and promise to clean it up. Looks like he promised to clean up the mess, but Henry sounds neither apologetic nor accountable.
The silly part about the whole thing is that Cherryberry and the assistant GM of the Cubs are negotiating the terms of Theo’s release from the Sox. Well, really, the silly part is that Theo was in his office yesterday like nothing happened, surrounded by all the assistants that have been deemed untouchable to Theo.
———————————–
His tweets praised Henry for being accountable and being the “boss”. All Henry did was throw people under the bus. There was zero accountability.
@NotCoachTito Not Terry Francona
“We didn’t leak this info, and we’re sad that someone did.” “Are you planning to find out who did?” “Oh why bother.” Well I’m appeased.
The Cubs need to pull the plug on bringing in Epstein because now Boston is asking for multiple prospect compensation. Let him go back to Boston and Boston can play for two GMs.
This was all very predictable. It fits completely in line with Theo leaving.
Theo’s going to be the next person squashed under that bus. You can already see it with the leaks on Crawford from that post story. Henry’s comments today just take it to a higher level.
Once Theo officially leaves every single “sub-optimal” move executed in the house that rationality built is going to get dumped on the once boy genius.
Can’t wait to see how Lackeye get dumped on Theo rather than ownership.
So much for the Sox taking my advice of a issuing a gag order to Adrian Gonzalez:
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....n:twit:sox
It’s pretty clear that he (like Ortiz) is trying to stay far away from the big pile of stinky smelly p00.
Also wasn’t prepared for the tough schedule. Huh. Who knew that the AL East was the toughest division in baseball and that there were few soft spots on the schedule?
The entirety of the Boston media are fans of those teams. Pete is no different.
John Henry in that quote above was cover because he knows Francona was popular with the fans, he didn’t want Francona back, wasn’t picking up the option but probably were offering him to keep the job at $100 a year (well, probably not that low, but a big pay cut), all so he could say it was Francona who decided to leave.
Not all that dissimilar to the situation with Torre, where they offered a contract for him to stay that they pretty much knew he wouldn’t take.
Pete saying that John Henry was the “adult in the room”, makes me wonder about the refreshments they serve at RS HQ. I guess he didn’t see how he was throwing people under the bus as quickly as possible. The smear campaign done on Francona was disgraceful, and even Nomar talked about this being their usual way of doing business.
Yeah. That’s real adult.
Well then it shouldn’t be that awkward. Especially since he created the Joba rules
Glad this guy’s long gone:
“We will not bring him out of the bullpen to start this year,” Eiland said. “There’s people above me that can override my decision, but as far as I’m concerned that’s (the bullpen) where he’s going to be.”
Though he said things can change — “I never say anything’s forever” — Eiland said there’s no plan for Chamberlain work in the bullpen and to be reevaluated at the end of the season for a starting job.
“We get more out of his ability as a reliever,” Eiland said. “We feel like he can be a good starter. We feel like he can be a great reliever.”
Said Eiland: “He’s in the bullpen, and he’s there to stay, period.”
LGY & Tyler,
Thanks for that. Accountability is in the eye of the beholder, I guess.
Didja watch Joba pitch in 2009?
In 2008, before he got hurt in Texas, he was unbelievable. He was great. It was amazing to watch him.
When he pitched in 2009 I didn’t know who I was watching. He shook off the catcher so often he slowed the game down by at least a half hour.
He was not economical. Sure, they gave him pitch counts and innings limits – he was HURT the year before. And he couldn’t make it work.
(sorry had to comment on this )
I am a fan of Joba; I wanted Joba to be a starter. I don’t see that now. If it happens, great; it if doesn’t, it doesn’t.
****
On a lighter note, no matter what is going on with the Yankees, it looks like shangri-la compared to Boston.
Rothschild seems a lot smarter than Eiland, who did not appear to understand Chamberlain’s strengths as a pitcher. Sometimes it just takes someone smarter.
blake-
I almost died laughing. We are currently in League Championship Series and he picked the Sox in 2012. I guess this means Jose Iglesias is spending the entire year in the big leagues haha. Can’t wait to see the next Ozzie Smith.
m-
Just frustrating how the media constantly spin things positively for the Sox while Arod playing poker gets treated like he just punted a baby 50 yards….
I’ve heard Yankee players comment on the tough schedule at times. It is usually during the middle of a long road trip or many straight days of playing without a day off, but they don’t use it as an excuse.
Gonzalez just might not be quite the player they thought they were getting. He was used to laid back southern California instead of a fishbowl.
There is no doubt the man can hit the ball, and fields well. It just seems like he isn’t enjoying playing in the bEast, having to face the media all the time.
There was a player on the MLB radio that was saying he played 18 years and never had a press conference, rarely talked to the media, and couldn’t imagine going from that atmosphere to a Boston, NY or Philadelphia with the media they get, being asked questions after every game, both good and bad games.
I heard Crawford talking after a game this year, and realized I never really heard him saying anything during the years he was with the Rays. He isn’t exactly well spoken either, so that has to be uncomfortable for him to be thrust into.
Yogi-
Then that is a miscalculation by the Sox. One of the things that makes playing in New York and Boston so tough is the pressure from game to game. In San Diego, you can have an 0-4 in July with 8 LOB and nobody notices. In these two cities, you are a back page story.
All I know is that Sox management is just making it tougher for themselves in free agency. The Sox still have a ton of money but if I’m a free agent, I would look to take less elsewhere than go there knowing that I am more likely than not to be trashed by the organization.
CB,
SG seems to be increasingly pushing the Yu Darvish bandwagon the past few days. What do you think about the whole thing?
“I’m not a leader,” he said.
-Adrian Gonzalez, 2009
http://www.gaslampball.com/201.....n-gonzalez
Villa, you don’t throw in the towel when it gets rough, especially if the starter has that much upside.
The reality seems to be that it was easier to throw him in the bullpen rather than do the heavy lifting that’s necessary to develop viable home-grown starters.
Yes, I saw all of Joba’s starts, attended many of them, both home & away.
Tyler, I agree that it is a miscalculation on the Sox part. One of the things that Cashman seems to be concerned about with the players (at least recently) is that their character can fit in. CC was talked to about the whole NY scene, the expectations of what he would bring to the club.
While there are players that haven’t been particularly what I had hoped for in terms of their play, such as Teixeira, Swisher, the beginning of Granderson’s time in pinstripes to name a few, they all seem well equipped to handle the media and the grind of the games in this market. I think that is part of what Cashman looks into before making a signing or trade now. With his experience with players who are good players not being able to handle the spotlight, he probably knows that it can wear on a good player to a point where they don’t perform on the field.
With Teixeira and Swisher, I think some of the problems there are due to adapting to YS, or being somewhat changed by it, but I don’t think it is about handling the outside stuff.
When he pitched in 2009 I didn’t know who I was watching.
————————–
You were watching a 23 yr old kid pitching in the Al East, recovering from a shoulder surgery who had to deal with the Joba rules
http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/.....-sox-saved
Here’s the Edes article predicting the ??? Not sure what he’s predicting. First he says he’s picking them to make the playoffs. Then he says if he’s wrong, he’ll walk 45 miles to his hometown in a tee that says “I’m the idiot picked the Red Sox”.
Anyway, I’m not sure about the Bard as a starter suggestion. Sign Ellsbury to an extension? That’s like being on the Titanic. Who wants to be strapped to a sinking ship? Besides, he had 1 friend on the team. This is the face of your franchise? Off 1 spectacular season?
At this point with Mo, Soriano, Robertsen, Wade in the pen the Yankees owe it to themselves to see if they can turn Joba into a starter once and for all.
The resistance always comes back to them knowing some personal thing about Joba that makes them think he won’t work as a starter.
With a freshly repaired arm I don’t see the harm in giving it one more chance. It’s not like there’s a huge hole for a RH relief option on the team.
m-
It’s a really strange article. Plus, if I remember correctly, Bard was atrocious as a starter in the minors. He couldn’t even make it out of A ball. Moving him to the rotation makes him a worse player and weakens your ‘pen. Seems absolutely dumb.
JAP, I think the decision for Joba to the pen might have been pushed by the injury that he had. It wasn’t talked about much, but it was after the injury that Joba to the pen was in full tilt mode.
Papelbon was moved to the pen due to his shoulder, even though they worked afterward trying to sell it that he WANTED that role over starting. The RS supposedly test strength and ROM after each outing he has due to concern about over taxing his shoulder.
Something similar could be the issue with Joba and the bigger reason for him not being a starter. He did lose a bit in his starts, and he wasn’t very economical, but even when he went to the pen, he didn’t seem to regain it all back. With the TJ surgery he just had, you have to wonder if that might have been affecting him back then, or is a result of the injury causing him change his mechanics some.
Against All Odds October 14th, 2011 at 6:46 pm
When he pitched in 2009 I didn’t know who I was watching.
————————–
You were watching a 23 yr old kid pitching in the Al East, recovering from a shoulder surgery who had to deal with the Joba rules
////
Yea, Yankee fans aren’t used to watching an unfinished starter go through his paces. It can be ugly, but that has never bothered me. I look forward to the payoff.
Villa Nova-Ya October 14th, 2011 at 6:28 pm
Didja watch Joba pitch in 2009?
In 2008, before he got hurt in Texas, he was unbelievable. He was great. It was amazing to watch him.
When he pitched in 2009 I didn’t know who I was watching. He shook off the catcher so often he slowed the game down by at least a half hour.
He was not economical. Sure, they gave him pitch counts and innings limits – he was HURT the year before. And he couldn’t make it work.
(sorry had to comment on this )
I am a fan of Joba; I wanted Joba to be a starter. I don’t see that now. If it happens, great; it if doesn’t, it doesn’t.
______________
I don’t know that “he couldn’t make it work.” He was still learning to pitch, pitching 57b more innings than the previous year. He wasn’t as economical because among other reasons his fastball velocity was down 2.5 mph; he wanted to throw the slider more because of that, and he was incorporating more 3rd and 4th pitches, CB and changeup, in order to become a more viable starter. It is called development. He needed to be able to grow and evolve. I wouldn’t say he couldn’t make it work, as much as it was decided for him.
You were watching a 23 yr old kid pitching in the Al East, recovering from a shoulder surgery who had to deal with the Joba rule
++++++++
Who? Joba? I don’t recall Joba having shoulder surgery. He was injured, some reports said triceps, some said shoulder, but I don’t recall surgery being involved then.
The Joba rules were to limit Torre, not Joba. The Yankee FO knew well that Torre wasn’t always the best managing innings and outings for relief pitchers, Torre was the one to bring up the Joba rules. He didn’t like having the limits on his best reliever. Procter probably wished there was some Procter rules though.
Good starter > Great reliever
Papelbon didn’t have the secondary pitches Joba had. They aren’t comparable.
Darvish not being a yankee is going to be really sad for me as a fan. I hope it happens. If it doesn’t I’ll pout and eat tendon and gyoza
I wouldn’t say he couldn’t make it work, as much as it was decided for him.
++++++++
We don’t know the why behind the decision other than seeing that he was a different pitcher. Was the injury he had more significant than was ever talked about? Was it an injury that was cause for caution about limiting the innings he would pitch over him not being able to make it work.
He wasn’t tried in that role enough to make it definitive. The decision seemed to be set after his injury.
Yogi Mantle October 14th, 2011 at 6:52 pm
JAP, I think the decision for Joba to the pen might have been pushed by the injury that he had. It wasn’t talked about much, but it was after the injury that Joba to the pen was in full tilt mode.
Papelbon was moved to the pen due to his shoulder, even though they worked afterward trying to sell it that he WANTED that role over starting. The RS supposedly test strength and ROM after each outing he has due to concern about over taxing his shoulder.
Something similar could be the issue with Joba and the bigger reason for him not being a starter. He did lose a bit in his starts, and he wasn’t very economical, but even when he went to the pen, he didn’t seem to regain it all back. With the TJ surgery he just had, you have to wonder if that might have been affecting him back then, or is a result of the injury causing him change his mechanics some.
///
Papelbon doesn’t have the arsenal Chamberlain has, and he didn’t put up elite numbers as a starter in ML, as Joba did in 2008. It’s difficult to know whether the tweaks they kept making with him protected his arm or exacerbated his issues, but right now, with his velocity having been restored, and having come through the most routine of surgeries that has been known to make a pitcher stronger, with a new pitching coach with a fondness for strikeout pitchers, I don’t see why they wouldn’t reasonably revisit this option. I don’t know if people just don’t remember, but Joba was dominant in 2008.
Isn’t it a bit silly, that they’ve been searching high and low for a No.2, trading off assets for the likes of Vazquez, when all this time that pitcher might have been right here? And they’ve never even taken a second look?
JAP,
What boils me is that they don’t even take a FIRST look at some of these guys.
Jerkface October 14th, 2011 at 6:59 pm
Good starter > Great reliever
///
Translation: I don’t know what the bleep to do with him, and since I’m clueless, let him just rear back and throw and to hell with his development…
yankeefeminista October 14th, 2011 at 7:00 pm
Papelbon didn’t have the secondary pitches Joba had. They aren’t comparable.
+++++++++++
The point isn’t about secondary pitches, it is about health. Papelbon has a condition with his shoulder that prevents him from even being tried in that role. His shoulder has something wrong with it, a shallow socket or something like that, which can have it displace under the weight of starting.
SO, in terms of health, Joba and Papelbon might be very similar. The injury Joba had was not talked about much, but it was after the injury that everyone said he was going to the pen.
It’s similar to Jorge not catching. The report about the concussion issue didn’t come out till later, after the decision to have Jorge being the DH and not catching, even in a backup role.
The story on why Papelbon was moved to the closer role was also delayed for a long time, the early version was always about him filling a need, then wanting to do that job and asking for it. No mention at that time that it was a health issue that was behind it all along.
tomingeorgia October 14th, 2011 at 7:08 pm
JAP,
What boils me is that they don’t even take a FIRST look at some of these guys.
///
Who do you mean, tom? Like Warren, Mitchell, those guys?
Decent starter > good reliever
JAP, I think the decision for Joba to the pen might have been pushed by the injury that he had. It wasn’t talked about much, but it was after the injury that Joba to the pen was in full tilt mode.
———————
If that’s the case than why bring him back in 08 to pitch in a lost season. Why have him start games in 09. If the shoulder was that big of an issue why did they do the things that they did.
17 outs better than 3 quality outs?
I can’t take this anymore –
I saw the games and I didn?t see anybody who wasn?t busting their ass trying to win baseball games,? Henry said.
What, he wasn’t watching when AGon, Ortiz, or any of the others slow-jogged to first on grounders, even difficult ones?
What, Tito wasn’t going to be brought back even if he wanted to, but he wasn’t ‘fired”? I guess words have new meanings.
He’s given permission for Theo to talk to the Cubs, but not yet to sign with them? What, Theo was going to ask for advice Ricketts advice on shopping tips on Michigan Avenue?
What, he’s the owner, takes home all that money, and he signs off on a huge expnediture (Crawford’s contract) without believing in it because his subordinates wanted to spend his money?
If this was the Yankees, and the Steinbrenners, certain writers and ESPN would be all over this bs. My goodness, what a phony…….
Yogi, Joba had an interesting response to Cashman’s harping on his shoulder problem.
He said something like, there’s nothing wrong with my shoulder….hmmm….
Yogi, but Joba himself says he has no condition. Same old mystery. And Joba going to the pen in the so-called competition was because Hughes “beat him out” not because of any injury. Or why have the competition in the first place? Rehashing old stuff, but if we are going to go there, the party line was never quite credible and kept shifting.
CB,
How arethe you? Would you shop Swisher this winter?
Yogi, the Paps story was that he supposedly asked the Sox to make him a closer because it was his preference. He also had no breaking pitch and no changeup to speak of.
JAP, like I said, we don’t know the full story on Joba. When he first got hurt they made it out as a minor injury, but he was out a long time with it.
The mechanical changes could very well have been to limit damage to his arm.
It just is suspicious that Hughes, with the various injuries and struggles he has had, is still slotted in as a starter and Joba isn’t. Don’t you think? Especially since Joba has better raw “stuff”, yet he doesn’t get a second chance.
Seems to me that the Yankees aren’t afraid to give second looks, Nova got further chances, so did Hughes, yet Joba isn’t given them.
The economy of his pitches would improve with coaching and working on pitch selection.
Yogi Mantle October 14th, 2011 at 6:58 pm
You were watching a 23 yr old kid pitching in the Al East, recovering from a shoulder surgery who had to deal with the Joba rule ++++++++ Who? Joba? I don’t recall Joba having shoulder surgery. He was injured, some reports said triceps, some said shoulder, but I don’t recall surgery being involved then.
The Joba rules were to limit Torre, not Joba. The Yankee FO knew well that Torre wasn’t always the best managing innings and outings for relief pitchers, Torre was the one to bring up the Joba rules. He didn’t like having the limits on his best reliever. Procter probably wished there was some Procter rules though.
———————
Wrong word injury not surgery sorry.
In limiting Torre they also limited Joba. This is how the whole reliever/starter debate began. All of this for a 3rd consecutive first round exit. He wasn’t even suppose to be in their plans in 07.
as far as joba goes, maybe joe has had enough of it, and he seems to get his way.
Yes, TJ surgery can make a stronger arm, but I just see zero chance of the Yankees rebuilding Joba as a starter. I think that ship has sailed. I wouldn’t mind if they tried, but I think it’s a waste of time thinking about it anymore.
yankeefeminista October 14th, 2011 at 7:15 pm
Yogi, the Paps story was that he supposedly asked the Sox to make him a closer because it was his preference. He also had no breaking pitch and no changeup to speak of.
+++++++++
Yes, that is the original story that they put out… till it came out about the weakness in his shoulder that prevented him from being able to go a lot of innings.
You’ve seen the stories that are coming out NOW about their clubhouse condition this year. That should tell you all you need to know about them being forthright about the reasons for doing things. Most times, the first story told is what gets believed, and as time passes, the true story is blurred and forgotten, while the fiction remains. Just like in the Papelbon requesting to be a closer is the story people remember now.
There was articles written about the RS conditioning and testing program to keep Papelbon’s shoulder healthy. I read it because I have a lot of interest in these type of things.
All the clubs do things like that. I’m not exactly sure why, I guess they think it gives them an edge.
We see it all the time with companies, politics, you name it, they put out the false story first and pound that out there, then when the real story breaks, time still has the false story being the one people remember most. It’s the old tell a lie often enough and it becomes believed.
Against All Odds October 14th, 2011 at 7:11 pm
JAP, I think the decision for Joba to the pen might have been pushed by the injury that he had. It wasn’t talked about much, but it was after the injury that Joba to the pen was in full tilt mode.
———————
If that’s the case than why bring him back in 08 to pitch in a lost season. Why have him start games in 09. If the shoulder was that big of an issue why did they do the things that they did.
///
& why was he “competing” for a starter job as late as 2010? doesn’t add up.
J. Alfred Prufrock October 14th, 2011 at 7:24 pm
Against All Odds October 14th, 2011 at 7:11 pm
JAP, I think the decision for Joba to the pen might have been pushed by the injury that he had. It wasn’t talked about much, but it was after the injury that Joba to the pen was in full tilt mode.
———————
If that’s the case than why bring him back in 08 to pitch in a lost season. Why have him start games in 09. If the shoulder was that big of an issue why did they do the things that they did.
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& why was he “competing” for a starter job as late as 2010? doesn’t add up.
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No, it does not add up.
The biggest thing with Joba to me is that they don’t really need him in the bullpen and they need starters……so with 2 years of control left why not try it?
He’s probably not going to be ready to start the season anyway so take the 1st half and build his innings and stretch him out at AAA and then see where he is in the 2nd half……even if he doesn’t make it back to join the Yankees rotation in 2011 his trade value immediately goes up IMO if he’s a starter again and he shows that there is a chance he can do it.
Yep something is off here
making Joba the 6th or 7th inning guy is bad use resources. Let Brackman or somebody do that.
For those that want Joba to be a starter again. How many innings are you going to let him throw?
http://riveraveblues.com/
funny video…..fat Josh Beckett
It just is suspicious that Hughes, with the various injuries and struggles he has had, is still slotted in as a starter and Joba isn’t. Don’t you think? Especially since Joba has better raw “stuff”, yet he doesn’t get a second chance.
Seems to me that the Yankees aren’t afraid to give second looks, Nova got further chances, so did Hughes, yet Joba isn’t given them.
The economy of his pitches would improve with coaching and working on pitch selection.
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Yogi, I think that’s why it’s hard to let it die. It’s strange, and there has been no satisfactory reason, & like Yankeefem said, the story keeps shifting…If we were talking about an average arm, I don’t think we as fans would be so frustrated by this. It’s what could have been, what still could be…arggh!!!!!
“For those that want Joba to be a starter again. How many innings are you going to let him throw?”
he won’t be ready to start the season anyway….you’d have to stretch him out when he’s ready and then see how it goes. If you decided to go that route then 2012 would just be a year to get him back on that path….you’d be looking to reap the rewards in the 2nd half and primarily in 2013
To tell you the truth Blake I always felt making him a 8th inning reliever was a bad use of resources. Since his magic 07 2 month run we have seen guys like Hughes, Wood, and Drob take the job and run with it for a yr. It wouldn’t surprise me if another reliever from within or outside the org. had a big yr in the pen.
RMS October 14th, 2011 at 7:33 pm
For those that want Joba to be a starter again. How many innings are you going to let him throw?
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In 2010, for all the concern about his arm, he had no limits…whatever his limits are due to coming back from the TJ, it’s worth the effort to put him back on the course of a starter for the forseeable future.
The Yankees rushed Hughes up before the wanted to because of need.
Joba not being considered for a starting job has to tell you there is a deeper reason behind it.
That might be what led to the TJ surgery. It might be something they found out from testing after his injury.
Whatever it is, there is concern about him being able to be a starter. The talk about him was how he kept up his velocity throughout all the innings he pitched in a game. There was also talk about his mechanics not being solid, and him having struggles in repeating his mechanics.
Blake, I agree that he could be stretched out during the rehab portion and given extended time in the minors. If that doesn’t happen, then it tells you that there is a different reason than what we are being told as to why he isn’t starting.
He has the plus pitches to do the job. He doesn’t need them in a relief role.
“And Joba going to the pen in the so-called competition was because Hughes “beat him out” not because of any injury.”
Ah yes, the “competition” where one player was determined to be more well suited for the role… ya know, looking back, so much of the organizations decision making has really relied on Hughes and what was expected of him. Kind of interesting.
Joba has better numbers as a starter than Hughes…
against all,
yes….good starters often make great relievers and the Yankees have done a nice job of cheaply filling out their bullpen with youngsters. The Yankees have 3 really good right handed relievers in the their bullpen….including two of the best in baseball…..I just don’t think they need Joba out there (obviously he’d make it even stronger) but they are good enough and deep enough there to try a different role for Joba IMO. If it doesn’t work then just transition him back to the pen for the stretch run.
If they aren’t going to let Joba start then maybe he can lend Hughes his slider..
Not much has been made of it so far, but Noesi is starting in winter ball.
Most times, the first story told is what gets believed, and as time passes, the true story is blurred and forgotten, while the fiction remains.
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true true true
It’ll all work out…..having watched the Lion King like 10 times in the last week….Hakuna Matata
Great news about Noesi….suggests to me that they are considering him a strong option to start next year…..which I certainly hope is the case…..he should get a real look in ST.
I’d say ‘what the harm in trying Joba as a starter?’ but I’m pretty sure thats exactly what I was saying years ago at the start of this debate…which makes me think its just never gonna happen with him and the Yanks.
JAP, I’ve found that when the story keeps shifting, like this one about Joba has, it is because it is covering up something. When the story changes and shifts under questioning, it is because the original cover isn’t holding up well under the scrutiny and needs to be changed.
I just don’t buy it that Joba isn’t being given a chance to start because he is better in a relief role. If you have a pitcher who can be dominating like Joba was for one inning, and he had been able to sustain the pitching velocity through 5-7 innings, he has the plus pitches to go through the lineup multiple times, yet he is better in the pen? The big question becomes why. There is a reason, and it points to health of the player. A reduced role is better than no role.
Hi everyone,
Not trying Joba out as a starter is a very bad use of resources. The BP is very good as it is, whe he comes back he is probably the 6th-7th inning guy, anybody else can do that.
I heard about the shoulder injury before, but i think that it was a cover for what i think it was an actitude problem the kid had, the problem might have triggered the move to the pen.
As of now, if he had any actitude problems, he has been humbled enough…..I think he is ready both phisically and mentally to take on the starting pitching role.
As of this moment, you have to think that Noesi is pencilled in for the 2012 rotation.
Fingers crossed for Nova.
“There is a reason, and it points to health of the player. A reduced role is better than no role.”
He got hurt anyway…..how do they know the elbow thing hadn’t been going on for a long time and led to the shoulder tendinitis or whatever? Joba clearly has a high pain threshold…..
If Hughes was traded away in the early goings, is Joba still moved to the pen?
Yogi Mantle October 14th, 2011 at 7:38 pm
The Yankees rushed Hughes up before the wanted to because of need.
Joba not being considered for a starting job has to tell you there is a deeper reason behind it.
That might be what led to the TJ surgery. It might be something they found out from testing after his injury.
Whatever it is, there is concern about him being able to be a starter. The talk about him was how he kept up his velocity throughout all the innings he pitched in a game. There was also talk about his mechanics not being solid, and him having struggles in repeating his mechanics.
Blake, I agree that he could be stretched out during the rehab portion and given extended time in the minors. If that doesn’t happen, then it tells you that there is a different reason than what we are being told as to why he isn’t starting.
He has the plus pitches to do the job. He doesn’t need them in a relief role.
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The other possibility is that they thought they had a good thing out of the pen, & when it became rocky after the 2008 season, they decided they didn’t really need to invest the time in him as a starter. Keep in mind, he never got sent down again…that sort of flies in the face of doing all they could to get him mechanically straightened out, being that Scott Aldred had made such a success with him in his first go round as mentor..it could just be this: the Yankees didn’t know how to develop him (Eiland was trying to turn him into a pitch-to-contact guy, of all things), so they just said, ‘hey – he’s a good reliever, let’s just close shop’.
I think that’s as likely as any version, maybe more so. But very disappointing IF so.
I think Noesi needs to be in Scranton as the 6th starter.
Blake exactly if it doesn’t work out he goes back to being the 6th inning guy no harm no foul. They lose nothing but gain a starter if it works out. We all know he’s not going to get a shot but it never hurts to discuss.
“I think Noesi needs to be in Scranton as the 6th starter.”
stretch AJ out in Scranton (or wherever they play)
“They lose nothing but gain a starter if it works out.”
But…. THIS WAS THE SAME ARGUMENT FROM THE BEGINNING WITH JOBA!! That’s the part about this entire thing that drives me crazy. There was NEVER anything to lose by trying him as a starter and sticking with it until it proved it was a major fail.
Joba got 15 starts in the minors and 88 innings….and they expected him to hit the ground running as a starter in the big leagues? I think and hope they’ve learned from how they handled him…..I suspect they have with how slowly they are moving with Banuelos…..he needs a full season at AAA next year
The Yankees made the right decision to call Joba up in 2007…..they made the wrong decision to not start 2008 with him at AAA
He was too much of a star in 2007 for them to consider a responsible course. What they should have done was send him down in 2009…when he started experiencing hiccups..that’s where they bleeped it up.
JAP,
Either way…..he didn’t get any development time…..and they gave up on him after one try at starting…..until they give a legit reason for how they handled the situation then that’s what it looks like.
Shame Spencer October 14th, 2011 at 7:52 pm
“They lose nothing but gain a starter if it works out.”
But…. THIS WAS THE SAME ARGUMENT FROM THE BEGINNING WITH JOBA!! That’s the part about this entire thing that drives me crazy. There was NEVER anything to lose by trying him as a starter and sticking with it until it proved it was a major fail.
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This is why it doesn’t pass the smell test. Yes, he got hurt anyway with the TJ being needed, but that hasn’t caused organizations to shy away from trying to develop a pitcher.
I can’t buy it that it was because he was so electric when he came up that he wouldn’t be sent down to work on things. He had some good outings as a starter, some not so good, but so did Nova, and he didn’t go to the pen.
I know there was talk about his conditioning and his attitude, shaking off the catcher, going to his slider too often, but all those are fixable. We’ve seen too many pitchers sent back down to work on things like this. Joba wasn’t. Cashman and the rest of the organization have been pretty solid on what Joba’s role will be, and that isn’t driven by the media even though they were the first ones to say he should stay in the pen.
Joba’s role in the pen was reduced to earlier replacement.
It might be that the TJ surgery was what they were trying to avoid, or it might be another issue that is undisclosed that has them putting him in that role.
I just look at the pitching they have brought up, Hughes, Nova, Noesi, and they are getting their chances at starting. If Joba isn’t given that chance when he comes back from TJ, it is due to something else that is driving it.
Is this series going to be televised anywhere?
I always liked Jerry Hairston.
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blake October 14th, 2011 at 8:05 pm
JAP,
Either way…..he didn’t get any development time…..and they gave up on him after one try at starting…..until they give a legit reason for how they handled the situation then that’s what it looks like.
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Aldred did a great job with Chamberlain. Maybe there were politics involved…maybe Eiland, who was supposed to be this guy to handle young pitching, would have felt threatened if Joba got sent back down to get fixed by Aldred again…who knows? I do know that in life, there are very talented people who are sometimes working under people who are not so talented, but who call the shots…
Shame Spencer October 14th, 2011 at 7:52 pm
“They lose nothing but gain a starter if it works out.”
But…. THIS WAS THE SAME ARGUMENT FROM THE BEGINNING WITH JOBA!! That’s the part about this entire thing that drives me crazy. There was NEVER anything to lose by trying him as a starter and sticking with it until it proved it was a major fail
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Yep when it comes to a talent like that you give him chance because the payoff could benefit the team for yrs.
MLB All-Stars? Except for Granderson, Cano, and Cabrera, not too many All-Stars in that crew heading to Taiwan…
sevrox October 14th, 2011 at 8:20 pm
MLB All-Stars? Except for Granderson, Cano, and Cabrera, not too many All-Stars in that crew heading to Taiwan…
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Probably the same way it went in the ASG. Too many who feel it’s the off season now, needing rest from the long season, and no real incentive to go.
That meant to be amusing story I attempted to tell last night was one that old Angel GM Harry Dalton used to pass around the tee box some 30 years ago after his tenure in Anaheim…..I cleaned it up somewhat considering my frame of mind……
Hairston is such a solid player. Why don’t the Yankees get a player like that?
Grienke getting beat up a little bit here. 3 runs in, only second inning, but that can affect the game.
Yep…real solid play on the second ball hit to Hairston. Was never more than a late inning utility type.
Grienke did pitch out of it w/minimum damage. But the error by Hairston tacked on the 2 runs. Greinke has 1 ERA.
I meant ER not ERA
Should have been chardged with 2 errors..one one the grounder and one on obstruction
This is what happens when managers need to have a #2 batter. I love Jerry Hairston, but he shouldnt be batting at the top of the lineup, potentially getting more plate appearances than Braun or Fielder. You want your best hitters to get to the plate as many times as possible. And now, they failed to get a runner in from 3rd w. 1 out because of the need for a #2 hitter.
It’s a lot of fun to watch post season baseball when people actually hit the ball
Just saying..
and I wish we could bring Jorge back as a Big Roo type of role.
Just curious…
What batting order/lineup do you think was the best we had in the past 10 years ?