Best 25-man roster in baseball?
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 19, 2011 
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One comment grabbed my attention in Buster Olney’s blog post about rival evaluations of the Rangers and Cardinals… An American League evaluator said, “the Rangers feature the strongest 25-man roster assembled in the MLB this year.”
How do the Yankees compare to that roster?
Lineup
The Yankees outscored the Rangers this season, but only barely. The Yankees scored 867 runs, the Rangers scored 855. Both scored the majority of their runs at home — Rangers more so than the Yankees — which may be a product of two teams knowing how to construct rosters for their home park. Based on the Rangers most-used lineup, I’d guess Texas has the offensive advantage at five of nine positions.
C: Napoli over Martin
1B: Teixeira over Moreland
2B: Cano over Kinsler
3B: Beltre over Rodriguez
SS: Jeter over Andrus
LF: Hamilton over Gardner
CF: Granderson over Chavez or Gentry
RF: Cruz over Swisher
DH: Young over Posada
Clearly Beltre was outhitting Rodriguez at the end of the season, and Cruz is the choice because of his postseason success. I’ll give Jeter the nod based on his second half production. Whichever lineup you prefer, it’s not lopsided one way or the other. These are two good-hitting teams
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Rotation
By basically every measurable statistics, the Rangers had a better rotation than the Yankees this season. Granted, Texas played weaker competition in the American League West, but the statistics show a rotation that pitched more innings with a lower ERA, lower WHIP and lower opponents batting average than the Yankees. Ultimately, the Rangers rotation was deep enough that they could afford to move Alexi Ogando back into the bullpen late in the season and into the playoffs.
Game 1: CC Sabathia over C.J. Wilson
Game 2: Derek Holland over Ivan Nova
Game 3: Freddy Garcia over Colby Lewis
Game 4: Matt Harrison over A.J. Burnett
Sabathia over Wilson is a close call (Wilson definitely had a better second half than Sabathia), so is Holland over Nova (check out Holland’s second half). Games 3 and 4 are fairly easy decisions, but the Rangers would seem to have the better matchup in each game if they flipped Harrison to Game 3 and dumped Lewis to Game 4.
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Bullpen
The Rangers have the lower bullpen WHIP for the season. The Yankees have a slightly lower bullpen opponents batting average and a significantly lower opponents OPS. But the overall bullpen production is hard to judge because the Rangers didn’t really get their bullpen together until the second half when they traded for Mike Adams, Koji Uehara and Mike Gonzalez. Those three with Darren Oliver — plus Ogando available for multiple innings — give the Rangers a bullpen with Yankees-like depth.
The Yankees bullpen was outstanding in the division series, but the Rangers bullpen was just as good in the American League Championship Series. The Yankees bullpen is an absolute strength, and it’s one the Rangers can at least come close to matching. Another spot that’s not heavily favoring one team or the other.
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Bits and pieces
Each team has a key platoon player — David Murphy against right-handers for the Rangers, Andruw Jones against lefties for the Yankees — and those two have done their jobs well. The emergence of Jesus Montero obviously changes things for the Yankees designated hitter situation, but Young legitimately had a season worth MVP discussion. And Young gives the Rangers lineup flexibility that the Yankees don’t have. Craig Gentry gives the Rangers speed off the bench; Eduardo Nunez and Chris Dickerson would do that for the Yankees.
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Obviously, you’d rather be the Rangers right now. But a straight swap of 25 players for 25 players, which roster would you rather have? Which team is best equipped to win a seven-game series against the Cardinals, the Yankees or the Rangers?
Associated Press photos
Great analysis Chad! I think the Yanks stack up with them well. All about being the hot team in the postseason.
I do feel the Yanks would still be playing if we played the Rangers in the DS.
The Rangers annoy me-I hate to think how much more annoying they would be if they won the World Series.
Interesting post Chad.
I think the thing with the lineup that is becoming more obvious is that while the Yanks look as good or better on paper and may have scored more runs…..they don’t have the balance that Texas does and specifically they are much weaker vs RHP than Texas is.
Teixera turns into a mediocre player when a righty is on the mound…..Jeter is significantly better vs LHP…..and Swisher is also better vs LHP.
Napoli is a much better hitter than Martin, Hamilton is a much better hitter than Gardner…….and Cruz is a great postseason performed whereas Swisher isn’t.
Chad-
Excellent in depth review. Wonder how good the Rangers would be if MLB hadn’t stepped in during bankruptcy proceedings in May of 2010.
From NY Times. Mergers and Acquisitions May 24th, 2010:
Corrected The Texas Rangers voluntarily filed for bankruptcy on Monday to facilitate the team’s sale to a group of investors led by Chuck Greenberg and the team’s president, Nolan Ryan, for about $575 million, The New York Times’s Ken Belson reported.
The team and Major League Baseball took the unusual step so that the new owners would not be saddled with much of the debt held by the current owner, the Hicks Sports Group.
In a statement, the team said the bankruptcy was “prepackaged” and supported by Major League Baseball and the team’s current owner, the Hicks Sports Group, run by Tom Hicks. It also said the sale of the team would produce enough money to pay the Rangers’ creditors in full, including players like Alex Rodriguez, who are still owned millions of dollars in salary.
“This agreement assures an orderly process to expeditiously transfer Rangers ownership to the Greenberg-Ryan group, and it protects the franchise’s baseball operations,” Bud Selig, the commissioner of baseball, said in a statement.
The league will also loan the Rangers money so that the team “continues to meet all of its obligations while the sale is being completed.”
That loan helped them acquire Lee and others at the deadline.
Thought you guys might be interested in seeing what I’ve been doing for the past couple of weeks to salve the wounds of the ALDS loss. I started this the night before Game 5 and just finished last night. Yes, my wife is a saint.
https://picasaweb.google.com/118032649951620531031/YankeesNursery?authuser=0&feat=directlink
Yankee Trader -
Good reminder….
Forgot to mention it’s for my unborn son who is due in a couple of weeks.
The biggest offensive difference is having Michael Young .338 BA 106 RBIs and OBA .380, which led the team in those catagories. Plus he can play all infield positions.
Also with Ogando in the bullpen with Feliz, they have two arms that can hit 100mph on the radar gun.
HipHipHorHay-that is so cool!! Thanks for sharing.
Hip-
You have the perfect decorator!! Good job.
HipHip
WOW that is wonderful!!!
Hip – Thats amazing. They’ll be one lucky kid
Also, saw this from a couple threads ago:
“hardwired7 October 18th, 2011 at 7:48 pm
a Google image search for ‘mouth cancer from chewing tobacco’ should be more than enough to stop anyone from dipping.
word of advice: do not conduct that search.”
Guess who decided to conduct that search…..*shivers*
HipHipHorHay -
The room looks fantastic – very well done! Best wishes to you and your wife and your son.
Shame
I hope that discourages you from chewing
HipHip,
Wow! Great way to start off a new Yankee fan!
Re: the Rangers….They seem to have more balance than the Yankees but I still think the Yanks would have beaten them. Against all that lefty pitching, well, I would have liked our chances.
The only benefit of losing in the first round is we didn’t have to suffer through a CG two hit shutout from Colby Lewis in game 3 of the ALCS.
Oh it does kate lol, I used to know this kid who used it a lot. Let me tell you gentlemen something, there is nothing appealing to a woman about a man that has to spit brown gunk in a cup. Nothing.
Shame-
Players have been warned against the dangers of chewing tobacco for many years.
Babe Ruth died of throat cancer in 1948 at the age of 53.
Tony Gwynn was diagnosed in 2010 with cancer of the salivary gland which he attributes to “chaw”
Thanks for the encouragement guys! It was a lot of work, but it’s been fun, too! Believe it or not making the retired numbers was the hardest part. Couldn’t figure out how to do it.
Shame-I used to work with a guy who chewed tobacco. One night his mouth started bleeding and he had to go to the hospital but that didn’t discourage him from buying more 2 days later. Such an idiot. LOL
Here’s a stupid question related to chewing “masticating” while at bat. A-Rod many times had a cheekful of sesame seeds while at bat. I wonder if the chewing and spitting while at bat, affected his timing?
Is this a legit question or just plain stupid?
YT
I don’t know about that, but I always worry about them choking.
The chewing tobacco thing makes me laugh for all of the reasons you guys talked about already.. 1) pretending its about protecting the kids (and not the brand) 2) ignoring the obvious hypocrisy of promoting and serving alcohol at and during games 3) there are not sufficient test for all of the illegal steroid usage in baseball but we’re worried about banning a legal substance? and 4) our government should be doing something slightly more important during these tough times.
Had the Braves not made the Trade with the Rangers for Teixira maybe no trips to the WS the last 2 years,
NO
Matt Harrison 14-9 3.39ERA
Elvis Andrus .279 led team 37SBs
Neftali Feliz 2.74 ERA .194 BAA 32 saves
I remember a story many, many years ago in SI, I think, about chewing tobacco. A couple of players recounted the horror of what happened when they accidentally swallowed their chaw. Gulp. Apparently it’s extremely unpleasant.
I don’t know about that, but I always worry about them choking.
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Kate-
Me too. I remember a game that Ron Guidry was pitching chewing on tobacco, when a line drive was hit back to him and he swallowed it, almost choking to death!
JM – You throw up everywhere… at least thats what I’ve seen happen lol.
HipHipHorHay -
Did you leave room for a couple more retired numbers????
This is a disgusting topic. LOL
YT
I remember that Ron Guidry situation as well.
when your 4-6 hitters are invisible during the playoffs and your catcher hits like a pitcher, then yes, it’s safe to say the AL representative in the 2011 World Series is a better team than us. Would we have beaten them head-to-head if we had the chance in the ALCS? Maybe, but we’ll never know. Even if we did beat them, it may not have meant we were the better team.
Villa Nova – well, you see I’ve already got Jorge, DJ, Bernie, and Mo up there along with Joe D. I had to include the kid’s name, of course. Then the other guys among my Yankee favorites I considered were Paul O’Neill (love him, but love Bernie more), Tino (ditto), Cone (love him, but time in pinstripes too short), Robbie (too young still), the Mick (too much alcohol for a baby), Andy (just couldn’t quite get over that trip to Houston).
So that’s why I’ve got the guys up there that I’ve got!
HipHipHorHay -
I looked again – seems like you anticipated some retired numbers? LOL
HipHip -
It really is a great room. Wish I had a little boy. We’ve got a Wizard of Oz bedroom in Glinda Pink with a Yellow Brick road.
The things ya do for love.
LOL
The Rangers have now made two World Series in a row while the Yankees have been eliminated. If the shoe was on the other foot, all Yankee fans would believe that demonstrates team superiority. The proof is, unfortunately, in the winning. The Rangers are a better team and a younger team. The Yankees must improve. To think otherwise, flies in the face of reality.
Let’s stop the bad luck, bad umpiring etc. I hope Cashman is smarter than that.
We?ve got a Wizard of Oz bedroom in Glinda Pink with a Yellow Brick road.
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Awesome.
Best lineup production by 2011 salary. Did the Rangers or Yankees get their moneys worth?
c-Martin 4M Napoli 5.8M
1b- Tex 22.5M Moreland .426M
2b- Cano 10M Kinsler 6M
ss- Jeter 15M Andrus 452,180
3b- A-Rod 31M Beltre 14M
rf- Swisher 9M Cruz 3.65M
cf- Grandy 8.25M Gentry .416M
lf- Gardner .5495M Hamilton 7.25M
The Rangers have gotten luckier and more timely production in the playoffs (small samples). Flat out saying they are a better team? No, even Chad’s analysis above doesn’t prove that.
Most first basemen in baseball were better than Teixera offensively in 2/3 of games (vs RHP) this year. That’s something that has to change.
ID-
Posted this a bit earlier.
The biggest offensive difference is having Michael Young .338 BA 106 RBIs and OBA .380, which led the team in those catagories. Plus he can play all infield positions.
Also with Ogando in the bullpen with Feliz, they have two arms that can hit 100mph on the radar gun.
Are the Yankees 27 world series wins to be attributed to small sample size and good luck?
Good teams win close games. Look at the Yankees one run and extra inning record. Not good. Those are the games a team must win in the playoffs. They did not in the season or the series.
I knew this thread was going to be yet another opportunity to dwell on the Yankees’ shortcomings – which all teams have by the way.
And of course, the Yankees will come up short.
And of course, there is no hope for the Yankees unless the do wholesale changes, while every other team in the league needs to either do nothing, because they are perfect the way they are, or they are so bad, they need to trade their best players to the Yankees.
I am of course overstating and exaggerating, but that is what this place has read like since the last game of the ALDS.
They Yankees did not get clobbered in the ALDS; they just missed. And every single player in that lineup can lay claim to having at least one opportunity where they did not produce. If one of those players in one of those opportunities comes through, these conversations (or most of them) are not even happening.
Most of what fell short for the Yankees can be addressed without having to trash this team. It’s going to be a very long winter….
I don’t think Texas was better than the Yanks this season. They finished with a worse record than the Yanks and did so against much easier competition in their division.
They just happened to be playing better baseball than the Yanks did in October.
The Cardinals weren’t better than the Yanks – or the Brewers for that matter. But they won anyways.
austinmac – You’re missing the point. ALL playoff series wins can be attributed to small samples and good luck.
The 162 game season does a much better job of sorting out who are the better teams.
Good teams win close games. Look at the Yankees one run and extra inning record. Not good.
———————————-
austinmac-
Agree. Can’t remember the Yankees having many walk off victories.
Looking at the one run records the Yankees were 21-24. however the Rangers were 19-24. Extra inning games 4-12- as bad as San Diego and Houston.
This team lacked Mystique and Aura this year. Wonder who led in both leagues with late inning comeback wins?
The Cardinals weren’t better than the Yanks – or the Brewers for that matter. But they won anyways.
——-
Oops. That’s supposed to be….the Cardinals weren’t better than the Phillies.
I actually believe, had the Yankees had that one timely at bat in game 5, they would have broken out offensively against the Rangers, and now with the Cardinals in the WS, even with their HFA, would have won #28.
The walk off wins in 2009 were a fluke.
Even the dynasty teams didn’t have that kind of luck in extra inning games. It was just one of those things.
ID,
I get the point. I agree the 162 games tell us who the best team is in the long run. It does not tell us who the best teams are when depth, fifth starters, long men play a lesser role in the playoffs.
The Rangers going to two straight series with some ease does tell me they are built to win in the playoffs. Good offense that does not strike out at the Yankee rate, a great bullpen and decent starting pitching.
Two straight years the Yankee offense disappeared in the playoffs. I doubt coincidences.
I simply say, the Yankees need a player or two with a high average that can drive in runners on second or third. The team average was middle of the pack this year. Montero can hopefully help. I would like to see a bat added in addition to him.
Oops. That’s supposed to be….the Cardinals weren’t better than the Phillies.
——————————————————-
In game five with the classic Halladay vs Carpenter matchup, reminiscent of the Koufax vs Gibson battles, the Cardinals were better, by that one timely hit!!
Phillies made a big tactical mistake-playing all their regulars against the Braves in their extra-inning win game 162.
I think people get too caught up in “walk off” victories.
I think the Yankees are as good or better overall as a team than Texas……and their lineup is as good or better vs LHP…….but the problem is that because of the way the playoffs are currently formatted ….the Yankees faced the worst matchup for them of any team in the playoffs……
The Tigers had the weapons to attack the Yanks biggest weakness……which is their lineup vs good RHP……and they beat them….that’s the way it is.
Hip Hip – I am absolutely blown away. You make me proud to be a Yankee fan!!! You have one lucky little guy on the way.
Just wow!
The Yankee offense didn’t disappear against MIN in the ALDS last season. They disappeared against Texas.
Giuseppe Franco October 19th, 2011 at 10:22 am
I don?t think Texas was better than the Yanks this season. They finished with a worse record than the Yanks and did so against much easier competition in their division.
They just happened to be playing better baseball than the Yanks did in October.
***********************
Exactly
This Yankee team would have probably won the WS in 2009 also………
“The Yankee offense didn’t disappear against MIN in the ALDS last season. They disappeared against Texas.”
The Yankees own the Twins though…..partly because their rotation is just perfect prey for their lineup……1 erratic Lefty and a bunch of soft tossing righties.
Splitting hairs. The 2 teams are a push.
austinmac – I love ya but I’d like to give you an austinsmack! Maybe you have allegiances in two directions due to your hometown?
Stop pooh-poohing elements that UNEQUIVOCALLY played into the Yankees demise. Either that, or tell me that you are okay with f’d up umpiring that changes the course of a game and potentially the course of a series, and then I’ll understand you better.
I am not making assumptions about what would have happened in an ALCS. But I am telling you that two distinct happenings HURT the Yankees in the ALDS – the rainout and the umpiring. It appeared that CC was very sharp in the rained out game and Verlander looked like the same Verlander throughout the DLS and ALCS – merely okay. With the way Nova pitched in Game 2, we could have gone to Detroit up 2 games to 0! You feel pretty good about winning one out of the remaining 3!!!
So I want to stop hearing fans with blinders on refuse to acknowledge ALL that happened in the DLS. Stop pretending that the Yankees stunk out of the joint and lost fair and square!
“I don’t think Texas was better than the Yanks this season. They finished with a worse record than the Yanks and did so against much easier competition in their division.
They just happened to be playing better baseball than the Yanks did in October.
The Cardinals weren’t better than the Yanks – or the Brewers for that matter. But they won anyways.”
Yes
“austinmac – You’re missing the point. ALL playoff series wins can be attributed to small samples and good luck.
The 162 game season does a much better job of sorting out who are the better teams”
And YES!
As long as we continue to play an unbalanced schedule (first and foremost) and have umpires who have no business collecting their paychecks, you can be assured that the team that wins the World Series will be a virtual crapshoot every year.
Get hot down the stretch, hell any team can win it. And the teams with the leg up will be the teams in the easiest divisions! Look at San Fran! And the Angels! And the Cardinals! I don’t count the Sux* because they had the roiding twins, Jack Daniels, and other roiders on their team.
It’s not going to matter that the Yankees are the best team in the majors. The World Series no longer measures the best team. Period.
I do like this team a lot moving forward…..I think they are positioned for prolonged success…..but then Im not a fan that expects a WS every year……its just not that easy. I cheer and hope for a title but im more interested in having long term health and having a chance to win it all every year.
That was the issue in the 2000s for me…..it was a quick fix every year and you always had the feeling that the bubble was eventually going to pop and it finally did in 2008. Its not like that now……the Yankees now have both short and long term plans for success and that’s all a fan can really ask for in todays game
I can’t wait till the World Series is over.. it ends a lot of the ‘what ifs’ on here and we can get to all the ridiculous trade talk. You should all start following hockey so I have other people to talk to about my other obsession
Well, I will agree that the Yankees did not stink – I’ve been saying the same thing.
But I do think they lost fair and square because in spite of all the things that did not go their way, they still had opportunities that went by the wayside.
I think it stunk that they got rained out in Game 1 – and they should never have started that game. But you don’t know if they postponed that game and CC never even throws a pitch how he would have pitched the next night with an extra day’s rest. Could have been great, could have been just good, could have been average or worse.
I think it stunk that the umpiring for CC’s next game was so poor that even people without a horse in the race felt compelled to comment. But this was an umpire that was behind the plate for CC before with no problem. Perhaps his strike zone was bad, but perhaps CC was also having trouble make a small adjustment to that strike zone. And even with that, the Yankees tied that game up 4-4, only to give the lead right back, and not be able to come back.
I think it stunk that in Game 2 the rain just happened to come with Jeter and Cano up in critical at-bats and they couldn’t see beyond the rain drops dripping off the brims of their helmets, and that he game wasn’t halted in either inning.
But there were still other opportunities that presented themselves a long the way. Opportunities for every single hitter in their lineup that were not capitalized on. So in that sense, they beat themselves.
“I don’t think Texas was better than the Yanks this season. They finished with a worse record than the Yanks and did so against much easier competition in their division.
They just happened to be playing better baseball than the Yanks did in October.
—————————————————–
They also had that one hot hitter throughout the playoffs-Nelson Cruz.
“Its not like that now……the Yankees now have both short and long term plans for success and that’s all a fan can really ask for in todays game”
Very true. There’s good reason to have a lot of optimism surrounding this team going forward.
Moving forward, down the lane OF:
Ravel Santana
Wilmer Romero
Mason Williams
(Heathcott, Moranta??)
blake October 19th, 2011 at 10:38 am
The Yankees own the Twins though…..partly because their rotation is just perfect prey for their lineup……1 erratic Lefty and a bunch of soft tossing righties.
——–
It’s true that the Yanks seem to have the Twins number, but they still had to play good ball to win that series.
I don’t think it’s right to diminish a series win – regardless of opponent. Beating the Yanks in the ALDS didn’t diminish what the Angels did simply because they seemed to have the Yanks’ number during the Torre era.
it ends a lot of the ?what ifs? on here and we can get to all the ridiculous trade talk.
************************
I hate the ridiculous trade talk.
There hasn’t been an update on Ravel Santana for a while.
Any information would be appreciated.
Yankee Trader -
Good point about the one hot hitter.
Speaking about rained out playoff games, Blake, you remember this game which if the Braves and Niekro had gone on and won, might have had the Braves moving on.
Wednesday, October 6, 1982 at Busch Stadium in St. Louis, Missouri
Game 1 was a wash—literally. The Braves led 1–0 behind Phil Niekro and were three outs from an official game when the umpire stopped it. When the rain did not subside, the game was postponed. Game 1 began from the start the following night in a match-up of the volatile Braves starter Pascual Pérez and longtime Cardinal starter Bob Forsch
Very true. There’s good reason to have a lot of optimism surrounding this team going forward.
——————————–
Shame
Yes indeed! That optimism going forward is Jesus Alejandro Montero!!!!
Trader,
I was like 2 years old in 1982
Blake-
I wish I was 2, too, and not in a tutu!
Ah-memories.
Trisha,
Actually, as much as I can’t stand LaRussa, I will pull for the Cardinals. Geography be da*ned.
Both teams had the rainouts. No one can predict how the game would have gone. Pull off the blinders and admit the Yankees had a team batting average in the low .260s. They have flaws I would like to see remedied. Otherwise, they will have more “bad luck” next year again.
But, I appreciate your total team support and hope you are right and I am wrong. Unlikely, though Trisha.:)
Pete has absolved the Red Sox clubhouse and threw a bunch of “anonymous” Yankees under the bus in the process. The relief pitcher who wanted to know the Alabama score doesn’t take a “rocket surgeon” (or brain scientist) to figure out though.
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....hts_4.html
I think this would be more fair comparing Granderson to Hamilton and Gardner to Gentry.
What is the story with Heathcott’s shoulder? Rotator cuff? Labrum? Has he recovered and will he be able to play next year?
IMO the yankees were the better team over detroit. And I honestly felt good going into game 5, but they couldn’t get that clutch hit.
It’s not enough to have a better 25man roster over the other team. You have to put your best players in the best situation to win. I still say the lineup was not setup to give them their best chance. Posada should have been moved to the 5th spot & in a better position for RISP. Texi struggles against righties & swisher is not clutch, virtually making Posada a lead off hitter.
There are some who will argue that moving posada may not have mattered. Maybe, maybe not. But you still have to put your best lineup out there. Isn’t that what you’re supposed to do? There are reasons why stats are looked at & players are placed accordingly.
“Pete has absolved the Red Sox clubhouse and threw a bunch of “anonymous” Yankees under the bus in the process.”
Laughable.
For all the good things said about Dustin Pedroia, and I do think he’s a fine player, I just keep asking people the same question: Does this happen with Derek Jeter on your team? Is that a fair question? Probably not. But I’ll keep asking it lol.
pat October 19th, 2011 at 11:08 am
Pete has absolved the Red Sox clubhouse and threw a bunch of ?anonymous? Yankees under the bus in the process.
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Why does this not surprise me?
I am sure there is stuff going on in all 30 clubhouses that would surprise us. The beer and chicken probably is overblown, altho thanks to Blake I have an image in my mind of them throwing chicken bones at each other.
To me, that is a funny side note. The real issue is how they are playing the blame game, and the person really getting thrown under the bus is Francona.
Have to go. In summary.
The Yankees have a good offensive team. Getting better batting average production from Swisher and Teixeira from the left side, will be a plus. Hopefully both are working hard in the offseason toward that goal.
The big addition of Montero will energize the offense and the fans.
Sign Cashman already, and get a reasonable deal with CC hammered out. Those are my October wishes!!!
Darvish is gonna ask to be posted. POST THIS MAN, YANKEES.
Nice pom pom waving Pete……its really funny
2600+ tickets up on StubHub for tonights game.
I am not naive enough to think that choir boys exist in baseball clubhouses.
But I think the Red Sox obviously had other problems besides chicken and beer.
That was just a funny side story in my mind.
And it really stinks for Pete to bring another team into this (who else did he cover besides the Yankees????) Seems like a way to deflect attention toward the enemy rival and away from the good ole boys in Boston.
And how neatly this is going to get swept under the rug.
Whoever put up that post yesterday about what the NY media would be doing – that was right on target. There is no way this would be re-spun to make anyone on the team look good. But it is the Boston way to find a scapegoat (Francona) and sweep all the dirt in that direction.
pat-the weather probably isn’t going to help anything with the game tonight. It’s rainy and miserable across the midwest.
I do have to go, and I’ll check back later. Any interest in Joe Saunders if he’s not tendered. From MLBTRs:
Diamondbacks lefty Joe Saunders is a non-tender candidate, based on comments GM Kevin Towers made to Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic. Towers explained his thought process toward the 30-year-old:
“He certainly logs innings, which is good. A veteran with experience. A good guy. Fits in well with our club. We like him. A deciding factor will be how much confidence do we have with the younger players in our system.”
Every rotation needs innings guys, and this year Saunders tallied 215 including a playoff start. Throw in a 3.69 ERA and how could the D’Backs be thinking about cutting Saunders for no return?
First there’s the price tag, which we project at a hefty $8.7MM.
Saunders is a hittable, low-strikeout pitcher who can be prone to the longball.
Lefties hit .212 righties .281.
He made 5.5M this year. I’m not sure he’ll get 8.7M in arbitration.
Just say no to Joe
“Saunders is a hittable, low-strikeout pitcher who can be prone to the longball.”
No, thank you.
Thanks Trisha! Kind words!
Not only would Joe Saunders prolly suck here, but he’d be a constant reminder that we didn’t get Dan Haren
“But I do think they lost fair and square because in spite of all the things that did not go their way, they still had opportunities that went by the wayside.”
Villa – here is my point. If things had gone their way there wouldn’t have been a game 5 to worry about.
And back to the umpires – if McClelland had called one play correctly, the Padres would not have been ushered out of the one-game playoff that sent them home as opposed to the postseason!
I’m much more comfortable with the Yankees losing fair and square, meaning with their own 18 hands!
“Both teams had the rainouts. No one can predict how the game would have gone. Pull off the blinders and admit the Yankees had a team batting average in the low .260s. They have flaws I would like to see remedied. Otherwise, they will have more “bad luck” next year again.”
Pull off the blinders and admit that scoring 10 runs in a game and 9 in another in a 5 game series is pretty much a winning combination and that if Davis had not squeezed the toothpaste out of CC, Game 4 – where Verlander gave up 4 runs and the Yankees lost by one flippin’ run, likely would have gone to the Yankees, thereby obviating a Game 5!
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THE RANGERS PLAY IN A CAKE-WALK DIVISION COMPARATIVELY!!!
I don’t want to hear who has the better team. Hell they didn’t even end up with the best record.
Pull of the blinders, austinmac, and start trying to process the big picture. There are so many bullets in the gun. If you have to pull the trigger many more times than someone else, you may just not have enough left for the fight at the end.
Yankees had to tough it out many more times than the Rangers because they didn’t have the benefit of playing relatively light-weight teams as many times as the Rangers did.
The more energy you have to expend, the less you have! Laws of physics – or something like that!
Even the fans aren’t buying Pete’s assessment though.. great first comment:
“youngparisians wrote:
Hey Pete, Congratulations on winning the Backpedaling Award. John Henry and the rest of the 2011 roster is very proud of you today.”
BloggingBombers Bob Gibson, Bruce Sutter and Adam Wainwright will throw out the ceremonial first pitch(es) before Game 1 of the World Series tonight.
“IMO the yankees were the better team over detroit.”
I think most people felt that way, Lockdown, from everything I’ve been reading!
And Verlander – well Verlander was nothing special.
I’ll say it again – play in the saddest division, you sure will end up with some fancy stats. Play in the baddest – not so much!
Dwight Gooden watched ’86 #Mets parade from drug dealer’s apartment, he tells ESPN. Details: http://espn.go.com/new-york/ml.....e-do-drugs
Trisha -
I don’t disagree that there are problems with the umpiring in general.
But I’m not only talking about game 5 as the game of missed opportunities. There were opportunities in each of the lost games.
Bottom line for me is sometimes a team has to overcome outside forces to win it all, and this time the Yankees did not.
I still love my team, and believe they are the best in baseball, and am proud that I root for a team that always strives to continue to be the best.
But I am with you that winning the WS no longer NECESSARILY means a team is the best over the course of the entire season. It means, of the teams who compiled the best records over the course of the season, you are the team that outlasted everyone else. Sometimes the two overlap.
But winning a WS takes more than just being the best team; sometimes things have to fall your way a little bit – at least more than for the other team(s).
Trisha,
Here is the picture. The Yankees lost again and the Rangers are in the series again. Scoring a lot of runs in two games isn’t good enough when the team needs to win three games. Do you attrribute the Yankees very poor extra inning record to more bad luck, bad umpiring, Karma or what?
I have loved the Yankees since 1960. In tight games, too many guys swing for the fences and too few guys put the ball in play. The Rangers only have one 100K guy while the Yankees are filled with them. That makes a difference in the game changing base loaded one out situations they repeatedly failed in.
Do you want Swisher up again next year in those situations or to ask another way, how many failures until it is more than bad luck?
The Rangers only have one 100K guy while the Yankees are filled with them. That makes a difference in the game changing base loaded one out situations they repeatedly failed in.
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The Yankees had the highest batting average with the bases loaded in the AL.
Trisha,
Let’s say your theory is correct that the Rangers have an advantage because they play in an easier division for the year. Questionable advantage, but let us assume you are correct.
Does that mean the Yankees should sit tight and lose again becasue of that disadvantage or should they try to improve so they can overcome it?
My point is simple. Despite my support of the team, they should not sit tight this winter and justify losing with excuses. Their are always excuses that can be made.
The Cardinals didn’t have a starter go more than 5ip the entire NLCS, the Rangers had one hitter literally win them 2 games.
These are the winning strategies that the Yankees are failing to employ?
The Rangers only have one 100K guy because half that team can’t stay on the field.
Cruz: 116 Ks in 124 games
Napoli: 85 Ks in 113 games
Hamilton: 93 Ks in 121 games
Moreland: 92 Ks in 134 games
I agree that the offense has been a big problem in the post season but if CC had pitched like he is capable we win that series against Detroit
austinmac – we wouldn’t be talking about a Game 5 if the other things hadn’t happened. Some posters believe that we still wouldn’t be talking Game 5 if Ayala wasn’t put in to pitch. Yankees lost all of their games, I believe by one run.
I have a hard time getting down on the Yankee team for this one.
If they played like crap all the way through, maybe. But they didn’t.
LGY,
Why did they lose so many one run games and so many extra inning games? I recall inning after extra inning that they didn’t score against any reliever. Is your memory different?
LGY is correct. Which makes it all the more upsetting that in two bases loaded situations in game 5 they couldn’t get anything – well, they did get one run in (when Tex walked). But they’d been pretty good in those situations all year.
There is a tendency to overstate stuff that went wrong, and a tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
***
Also, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say, as far as Texas goes, that by Detroit was wearing down inning by inning and you could see it.
Career 162 game average
Kinsler: 88 Ks
Andrus: 90 Ks
Hamilton: 126 Ks
Young: 105 Ks
Beltre: 101 Ks
Napoli 143 Ks
Cruz: 140 Ks
Moreland: 128 Ks
austin – if we don’t get back to the balanced schedule, IMO it isn’t going to matter anyway.
Triple – I agree with you. But look at it this way. Verlander gave up 4 runs that game. Both pitchers were pitching off schedule because of the rainout. So it all came down to the umpiring.
LGY,
The Yankees had the highest batting average with the bases loaded in the AL.
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I think this is misleading. It doesn’t take into account that:
1) the yankees have a great bench, which was not used in the post. Which is usually the case in the PS.
2) A-rod played in the post (still trying to get his timing back) while missed a lot of regular season game.
3) Teix hasn’t hit much from the right for a while. So how many of these were attributed to him
4) Swish has been unclutch in the post. So his regular season contributions doesn’t mean he’ll do the same come post season
Trisha,
My point is they lost one run games and extra inning games all year. Their must be a reason and a way to do better. When they had their best teams they won these games, I expect.
“Does that mean the Yankees should sit tight and lose again becasue of that disadvantage or should they try to improve so they can overcome it? ”
Of course they should try to overcome it.
Selig isn’t switching to the balanced schedule. I would still like my team to win. They have before. More excuses.
Their must be a reason and a way to do better.
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Take the same team, play next year, watch as suddenly they have a better record in 1 run / extra inning games, because those are heavily variable.
I agree with 1 run thing being variable but is putting the same team on the year next going to make Mark and Swisher all of a sudden start to hit in the post season?
One run games
Yankees: 21-24
Rangers: 19-24
Mark Teixeira has hit in the postseason, as has Swisher. So… probably? maybe?
austin – how many extra inning games did they lose in the first half? In the second half? Do you know? Also the one-run games? I am curious only because of Alex’s injury and Jeter’s really terrible first half of the season.
I’ll never get down on a player who’s trying his hardest but we know that Tex had a down season.
How about Tex having a better season? That could have made all the difference in the world.
So you had Jeter totally out of sync the first half of the season, Alex with an injury/surgery, and Tex having a totally down year.
That’s a lot of runs.
Runner on 3rd less than 2 out scoring %
Yankees: 55%
Rangers: 56%
Sometimes there is no reason.
Sometimes stuff happens. Or doesn’t.
Mark Teixeira has hit in the postseason, as has Swisher. So… probably? maybe?
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They have??
The AL East is becoming less dominant than in years past. The AL West is still a weaker division, but the margin of difference is less than in years past. The Red Sox are in flux. The Rays got hot at the right time, but their roster is no match for Texas. Saying that the AL East is the best division in baseball will be challenged more and more by knowledgeable baseball fans. The wildcard in this may be the jays. They are improving and have a smart GM.
I love statistics when the favor my point of view.
LOL
“Selig isn’t switching to the balanced schedule. I would still like my team to win. They have before. More excuses”
I’m always impressed by people who obstinately refuse to distinguish between excuse and reason.
Oh well.
The AL East is becoming less dominant than in years past. The AL West is still a weaker division, but the margin of difference is less than in years past.
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Put Texas in the AL east and they likely finish 4th
They have??
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Wouldn’t any scout the Yankees have had seen his .400 batting average in the playoffs before signing him? Swisher’s .400 OBP in the playoffs? And both had pretty good 2010 ALDS. Them and granderson are why they won.
“Saying that the AL East is the best division in baseball will be challenged more and more by knowledgeable baseball fans.”
And when it is accurately challenged, let’s have a discussion. I seem to remember just last year comentators saying that if Baltimore and Toronto played in the other divisions, they would be contenders.
The Yankees have issues they need to address offensively.
However, the Rangers offense as some model to follow? No.
“Put Texas in the AL east and they likely finish 4th”
Bingo.
trisha – Commentators say lots of things without actually checking them. Toronto was 39-33 in the division last year, so moving out of the East wouldn’t have helped them at all.
If they can add Montero and get Tex to not be one of the worst hitters in the league vs RHP then that will help
OK, I’m not sure how this is possible, but while looking up my stat for my previous post I noticed this…
Every other team in baseball was under .500 against the east last year.
Texas would have definitely not finish 4th in the AL east.
Wouldn’t any scout the Yankees have had seen his .400 batting average in the playoffs before signing him? Swisher’s .400 OBP in the playoffs? And both had pretty good 2010 ALDS. Them and granderson are why they won.
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Mark played in 1 post season series before coming here. That is your evidence? Plus he was a different hitter before he came here. The bottom line is the guy is a 207 overall post season hitter. Swisher is a 169 hitter overall.
Weren’t you the one in favor of benching Mark in game 5 to play Posada at first and DH Montero?
Err sorry, every other team in the AL was under .500 against the AL east in 2010.
Weren’t you the one in favor of benching Mark in game 5 to play Posada at first and DH Montero?
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Yes. That doesn’t mean that Teix is guaranteed to continue to suck at the playoffs? He has shown he can hit. Each series is discrete, and theres just not enough consecutive PA to get a good read on a guy. Players can look like goats then have 1 good game and be respectable. Gardner is a guy that gets maligned on here all the time for not hitting when it counts and he busted a .400 avg in the playoffs?? How does that make sense?
Trisha,
Much will depend on Alex and Tex having better years. Let’s hope Alex is healthy and Tex works on his upper cut.
I do not have stats on split for one run or extra inning games. What I do remember clearly is watching many games where the Yankees didn’t score inning after inning agianst the dregs of bullpens. Does that mean it will happen again next year? No. But, I hope the team does try to improve this off-season and not just on the pitching side.
I would re-sign Swisher, check on Beltran and see if a two year deal can be reached. Then, I would see if Swisher can be traded for value such as in a deal with the Giants or some other struggling offensive team who may perceive him as an upgrade.
Pena should in no way be part of any plans. Solid defensively, but as bad a bat as any in the league.
Triple – Just as a “what if”… if a guy bats .270/.360/.480 over the course of 162 games… you would expect that to drop by half just because it’s the playoffs and he hadn’t succeeded there yet??
Texs issues from the left side aren’t sample size related….he’s been awful for 2 seasons and that’s only magnified in October when the pitchers are better
“trisha – Commentators say lots of things without actually checking them. Toronto was 39-33 in the division last year, so moving out of the East wouldn’t have helped them at all.”
???
Wouldn’t any team interested in Swisher just sign Beltran?
trisha – in response to “I seem to remember just last year comentators saying that if Baltimore and Toronto played in the other divisions, they would be contenders.”
Toronto had a winning record in the east in 2010, moving out of the east wouldn’t have actually been an advantage for them.
Good teams know when to put their opposition away. Too many times in 2011 the Yankees seemed content with a 3-0 lead only to see it diminish.
The need to get back to tacking on 2-3-4 aggressive runs in later innings to discourage other teams and get into their bullpens sooner than they’d like to. Knowing when to step on their necks without making it too obvious helps.
Hopefully we’ll see such things in 2012.
You talk as if the Yankees made a conscious decision – “Hey, we’re up 3-0, let’s take it easy since we got this game in the bag, with our bullpen and all.”
Results are not necessarily a reflection of effort (or lack thereof). Of course the Yankees would WANT to tack on runs.
Also, there seems to be a tendency here to forget that the other team is trying to win, too.
Triple – Just as a “what if”… if a guy bats .270/.360/.480 over the course of 162 games… you would expect that to drop by half just because it’s the playoffs and he hadn’t succeeded there yet??
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It has been 3 years in a row with those 2 guys. I’m not asking for Pujols but I need to see a ittle more consistency. Other then Martin I would rather see anyone else up in a big spot in the post season then Swish and Mark
No team in the league knew how to put their opposition away more than the Yankees.
ID, while I hear what you’re saying, there’s also the possibility that having that winning record in the east would have translated to having even better records in the other divisions since earning a winning record in the toughest division should mean that you’ll be more than fine in the weaker divisions. I think that was the point of the commentator’s comments.
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