Posada’s place in the free agent market
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 19, 2011 
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If Jorge Posada wants to play again, my guess is that he wants to play for the Yankees. But, as we’ve discussed time after time, I’m not sure the Yankees have a roster spot for him.
So what’s left for the Yankees long-time catcher?
Re-writing Posada’s final chapter might require something other than pinstripes, and the free agent market might present some opportunities. The crew over at MLBTradeRumors posted this analysis of the market for catchers, and it’s telling that the first two names mentioned are Rod Barajas and Ramon Hernandez, two aging catchers, neither of whom started more than 85 games behind the plate this season.
Bottom line: Finding a good, reliable catcher is tough, and this winter’s market isn’t exactly flooded with elite talent.
Does that present an opportunity for Posada as a risk-reward signing? Could some team look at him the way the Yankees looked at Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon last winter: As a veteran who’s worth a shot in a market that doesn’t offer many proven alternatives? Could a National League team pair him with a young starting catcher, expecting Posada to catch 40 games, play first base for 40 games and provide a bat off the bench for the other half of the season? Could an American League team do the same, but with plenty of DH opportunities? At what price?
It may be that Posada’s finished, but if he wants to give it another shot, this market might provide the opportunity.
Associated Press photo
I think Posada is too proud to take a backup job for a different team. Anyone willing to pay him to start is crazy. I hope he retires.
ID, while I hear what you’re saying, there’s also the possibility that having that winning record in the east would have translated to having even better records in the other divisions since earning a winning record in the toughest division should mean that you’ll be more than fine in the weaker divisions. I think that was the point of the commentator’s comments.
Triple – Just as a “what if”… if a guy bats .270/.360/.480 over the course of 162 games… you would expect that to drop by half just because it’s the playoffs and he hadn’t succeeded there yet??
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It has been 3 years in a row with those 2 guys. I’m not asking for Pujols but I need to see a ittle more consistency. Other then Martin I would rather see anyone else up in a big spot in the post season then Swish and Mark
I hope he retires as well, I do not think there is a team (at least a contending team) in the AL he fits with.
The only Team in baseball he really makes any sense for is the Nationals, they are going to lose Pudge and will probably need to fill his spot with a veteran presence that can PH, DH (During inter-league) Spot the 1B and spot the C occasionally. There a young team on the rise and he’ll probably come in cheaper than pudge…
I think Jorge retires but, if he does decide the play DC is the best fit for him.
Just a remark about the tack-on runs: every time a Yankee “merely” adds to the run total his contributions are diminished on this forum because they are unimportant runs. Now, suddenly, I read that the Yankees don’t tack on enough runs, don’t put put their opponents away, basically saying the reverse, which is that the tack on runs ARE important.
So, which is it?
Or does it depend on whether the player in question is in or out of favor?
****
I think Jorge will end up signing with someone else to give himself the opportunity for a better exit year. This wasn’t exactly his best season; it’d be hard not to try to go out on a higher note, even it it’s not in pinstripes.
It’ll be difficult to see, but if he can sign on with someone else, he should.
trisha – It’s possible, but even to improve 3-4 games by moving divisions… they still had losing records against those divisions. my point was that commentators say a lot of things, and a lot of those things are not based in fact.
Triple – just answer the question, I did not name names for a reason.
Hip Hip
Jorge has to throw out the ceremonial first pitch at the 2012 home opener!
And them return for Old Timers Day like a true Yankee.
The Yankees scored 97 “important runs” this season. That is more than any team in the AL and only the Phillies scored more.
The rest of the runs, including worrying about 1 run and extra innings games is irrelevant.
To further that point, they were 1 “important run” away from beating Detroit and moving on to the ALCS.
I really really really hope Po retires. I would hate seeing him in a different uniform.
It is better to go out w/ something left in the tank, like Andy and Moose.
He is 40 years old, w/ a history of concussions. That is nothing to mess around with. He has a beautiful wife and family. It is time to spend lots of time w/ them.
ID,
Your stats tell me nothing. I would need to have watched him hit 200 in over 140 post season at bats to make an accurate assessment
Triple – That’s dodging the question.
Triple – What do stats during one week 2 years ago have to do with how a player will perform going forward? Nothing.
I hope Posada does what’s best for Posada.
It is not dodging any question. Has the guy had over 140 post season at bats and if he has what are his numbers?
J Alfred
I hope Po does what I want him to!!! B/c of course I know what is best for him
Triple – What do stats during one week 2 years ago have to do with how a player will perform going forward? Nothing
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I don’t understand the context. I never looked at 1 isolated series. I am looking at his entire body of work
It might just be that Jorge just likes to play baseball for money, and believes he can still do it, however unwise some of us feel that to be. I hope the Yankees offer him a job in the system. It won’t pay as well, but it will keep him in the game without risking his health.
The family is in Miami and the Ozzie/ Jorge dynamic would be fun to watch.
Bench player + veteran presence in clubhouse? Bullpen coach?
JAP,
I’m with you. It’s his decision to make, and he would be valuable to a lot of clubs.
Upstate, I’m not sure I’d want Jorge to just give up his passion for playing baseball just so I don’t have to see him in another uniform. If that hurts me to look upon, that’s my problem – not his.
He can still play, & he has a beautiful, fighting spirit.
If he wants to play, I hope he finds the situation that allows him to continue.
Jorge: long may you run, & may you stay forever young.
If Posada catches elsewhere, it would show the narrative about him not being able to catch because of concussions is a bogus one. Why would he take such a risk? I am all for Posada playing another year, as long as his health permits it. Too retire too early would be as bad for the player who still feels he can play as retiring too late. Although I’d love to see him retire as a Yankee, Posada shouldn’t retire because he is no longer a Yankee, but because he doesn’t want to/can’t play anymore. I doubt he will be re-signed; however, I wish him the best, whatever decision he makes. Jorge, you have been a great Yankee!
And I still think Posada can hit LHP.
tomingeorgia, yankeefem – I <3 you!
& far from being 'disappointed' that Jorge refused to bat ninth, I am proud of him for basically telling those corporate windbags he knew what they were up to & where to put it.
Why would he take such a risk? B/c he still wants to play.
There have been way too many athlete deaths in recent years due to years of sustaining concussions. There has been a much stricter policy for kids playing sports for the same reason.
In actuality, if Po played somewhere else, it would not diminish all he has done as a Yankee for me one bit.
yankeefeminista October 19th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
And I still think Posada can hit LHP.
///
Unless he has some kind of injury that was slowing him up more from that side, or eye problem, I don’t know why he’d deteriorate faster from his natural side. Makes no sense. Small sample, is more likely.
No, it doesn’t mean it was bogus.
It simply means the Yankees did not want to take the risk.
Kate, if the concussion stuff is real, then yes, of course you hope he makes the best decision for his health & safety.
Villa, why did they then take the risk and convince him to catch in that one game? Kind of mysterious. I just want what is best for him.
“Villa, why did they then take the risk and convince him to catch in that one game?”
Because Joe was afraid the stadium would implode if Montero caught
blake, QFT.
Looks like Tejeda (prospect) will soon be another highly ranked catching prospect on our prospects list.
Having seen any update on Ravel, re; outfield, Pruf, because there likely isn’t one at this point. Ditto, Slade.
*Haven’t* seen
maybe I am naive, but if there was no concussion concern, why did they get Martin?
Triple – but it’s not a consistant body of work, it’s 1 week at a time, split up by 12 months. Series to series in one season I can understand… but playoff results last year have nothing to do with playoff results this year. The regular season preceding the postseason (even the second half precedding the postseason) is a much better indication of what you should expect. How a player did one week in 2009 and one week in 2010 has no bearing on how that player will perform during one week in 2011.
kate, I am not saying there isn’t. Just another narrative that has been inconsistent. But to answer your question, Posada is past his prime and Martin satisfies the need for a better defensive catcher. However, Montero’s arrival at that position with be excrutiatingly circuitous because of Joe G’s (Cash’s?) decidedly prioritizing catcher defense over catcher offense. Stay tuned!
*will* be
Kate, Posada is getting up there. Even if he had no risk, he couldn’t have been the primary catcher.
Just taking the concussion part out of this for the sake of argument, they might have managed a more democratic Po-Montero tandem, although they trust the latter even less, especially earlier in the season.
Hopefully, re Montero, they will now not be terrified to put him back there a fair amount in 2012.
Any update on when Angels will choose a GM (who is hopefully not DO…)?
The biggest problem with Posada this year is that he was being paid as a full-time catcher to be a part-time DH. If he’s willing, what about keeping him in a bench role? He’s a veteran, he can hit from both sides of the plate (though obviously much better vs righties), he can play first in a pinch, he can catch in a pinch, he’s a clubhouse leader who seems to enjoy being one, and he can be an asset in the postseason.
It’s not like the bench is set and full of super-talented guys. Chavez might be retiring. There’s a good chance Jones will leave.
Just a thought.
I was so behind that I just posted a ‘new post —>’ in the last thread only to realize there are 40 new comments in this one… I hate Wednesdays. They are only protected from hatred because of the awfulness that are Mondays.
Stanzy
From a fan perspective, that would be ideal. For the reasons you state, and he could also mentor Montero.
“I am all for Posada playing another year, as long as his health permits it.”
yankeefeminista-
i totally agree with that . i’d like to see posada get into the hall of fame and if he can put up some more stats to pad his present totals , i’m all for it.
as far as retiring a yankee, that’s nice, but it’s not enough to warrant quitting if there’s something left in the tank. there are lots of aging catchers who have hung on for years who fans think are done. this is simply because catching is a craft that takes a long time to learn. the key is health.
posada would have to be able to throw and catch. there’s really only one way to find that out and that is for him try it. i thing the playoffs remove any question whether he can still hit when it matters.
in general,i’ve got to a point where i feel the retiring as a yankee thing is really overblown. the present management acts in a way that it looks like they use that against players when negotiations get difficult . i think any individual player should call their bluff on that one as i feel it’s very un- yankee like for a real yankee management to play that card.
very unclassy. almost something the present red sox management would do if they could. of course no one cares to retire as only a red sox player so that really doesn’t apply
Exactly which position would Posada be filling? Jone’s 4th OF position or Chavez’s BU to A-rod at 3B? Or are the yankees keeping Montero in AAA to give Posada the DH spot?
Lockdown, the problem is that the Yankees don’t trust Montero as the BUC. That spot should be Montero’s not Cervelli’s.
RE: the last thread. The Yankees, as always, are the best team on paper. It doesn’t always work out, but they are the steadiest, most consistent force in baseball. Just didn’t work out this year. With the starting pitching we’ve seen? Our pitching would have shined on its way to a title.
RE: Posada. He had a great career. Maybe he looks at HOF chances and tries for more. I doubt he catches again. Who can he DH for? I think the Yankees are prepared to move forward. The signs were there all season. They were loathe to give him that 4th year, why would they give him another one after that?
Jorge is by all accounts a very proud man. If I was his wife, I’d encourage him to retire a Yankee.
randy l, Given consistent AB’s. I see no reason why Posada can’t have a very solid year and I agree, retiring as a Yankee is overrated, especially if the team no longer wants said player. A player shouldn’t retire if he still has something left in order to retire as a Yankee. Posada will always be a Yankee, and painful as it would be, his playing elsewhere couldn’t possibly diminish that.
Catch you all later.
I really think we see Montero as primary DH and BUC next season.
Randy
is that why Wakie and Tek are still playing? They don’t want to retire as red sox? I knew there must be some reason
yankeefeminista,
Montero is not ready to catch every day. The lack of trust by the organization is based on Montero not being ready atm. His bat is far superior to his glove. So the yankees want to play him as much as they can. Montero is slated for the DH/BUC role. They will “ease” him into the catching role. Girardi has said he will work will Montero personally.
If Montero was given the Cervelli role, he would not play everyday. The yankees need Cervelli as the bench player in case a catcher gets hurt, because Montero will DH. No way do they have Martin catch, Montero DH and no BUC.
On days Montero catches, the DH will go to A-Rod & Jeter & whomever. It wouldn’t surprise me to see Montero learn some first base as well.
Montero deserves to hit both lefties & righties, not being platooned.
“i totally agree with that . i’d like to see posada get into the hall of fame and if he can put up some more stats to pad his present totals , i’m all for it.”
He should already be in the HOF
“Then you know what time you have to be at the ballpark to go into the city for the parade, but I’m thinking, ‘OK, I got time.’ And the clocks, I mean the rooms are spinning. I said, ‘OK, I’ll leave in another hour.’ Then the next thing you know the parade’s on and I’m watching the parade on TV.”
http://espn.go.com/new-york/ml.....oing-drugs
Gooden on missing the victory parade in ’86. From an E:60 episode to air tonight. Right around first pitch.
Kate – Yeah. I hadn’t really thought of it before, and I don’t think I’ve seen anyone mention it as a possibility. Everyone seems to be saying he should retire or he’ll sign with someone else.
Maybe he struggled a bit, adjusting to his role, this year. But now he’d be coming in knowing exactly what to expect. He’s got to know that his days as a full-time catcher are behind him, and he must be aware of his struggles against left-handed pitching. If he wants to hang around the game for a while, and if he wants to be with the Yankees — and he wants both of those things enough — I could see him taking a bench role. I guess if he is as proud as people say, and if his pride really blinds him to his decline, then yeah, I could see him going to another team. But I’d at least offer him the opportunity to stick around, transition out, take a victory lap.
Here’s one for Jerkface:
http://riveraveblues.com/2011/.....ees-57959/
^^ On why Yu Darvish makes sense for the Yankees.
yankeefeminista-
i was around a lot of aging all star players when i did some bullpen catching with the ill fate senior league that lasted for two years around 1990. i saw graig nettles, cesar cedeno, al oliver, hal mcrae, jose cruz, and many more up close who were on the team i was with, and they could still play at a mlb level, but not everyday. that’s the key.
that league was an experiment in aging baseball players pushing the envelope. from what i saw with pitchers i even told jim palmer that he was probably doing too much too fast when he was making a comeback with the orioles. palmer was polite, but told me he knew what he was doing. a few days later he blew out some lower body part and never played again.
aging players need to play every other day or every third day even when they appear healthy. i’ve said it for a while that jeter should play much less than he does for optimal stats. yes, it’s hard to hold a guy like that back, but it’s a truth that aging players need to rest, play , rest, play. they can’t just play, play ,play like young players do.
if posada played every third day even when he was healthy, i think you’d see him produce some very good stats .
“Maybe he struggled a bit, adjusting to his role, this year. But now he’d be coming in knowing exactly what to expect. He’s got to know that his days as a full-time catcher are behind him, and he must be aware of his struggles against left-handed pitching. ”
While I would love for Posada to be the bat from the bench like something out of the Ruben Sierra era…. I don’t see it. It has nothing to do with ability either, but keeping one of the “Core 4″ (is this like Seal Team 6?) as a marginal player is, I think, where the problem lies. The fans and media won’t let it go and it forces Uncle Joe and the organization to constantly answer questions about his role causing a distraction. Also, he wasn’t that great with the limited playing time he did have this season so I dont know that he’d be better with even less next year.
Darvish post at RAB
M beat me to it……must admit Im warming to Yu
^^ On why Yu Darvish makes sense for the Yankees.
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From River Ave
Few have had long-term success, and two of the most recent transitions, Matsuzaka and Igawa, have flopped badly.
Totally disagree that Dice K was a flop and to also lump him in with Igawa
upstate kate – your earlier sentiments about Posada, and how he should enjoy his family, sums up my feelings very well.
I think he should call it a career. With the Yankees or not, I think he should realilze how fortunate he’s been (take at looke at Mike Matheny, or Francisco Cervelli), and go home.
How many rallies did he kill this year? Have we forgotten how many times teams with a good running game took advantage of him? We should not let sentimentalism get in the way, should not let our hearts think for our brains.
Going out as a backup catcher for the Kansas City Royals, or Pittsburgh Pirates? And, if he got that one big whack in the head? Is the money and the pride really worth that much?
Only Jorge can answer that question. I’m really hope – for his sake, I am loyal to old Yankees’ who have given us so much joy – that he looks at his family and calls it.
The posting fee is such a waste of resources.
LockDown – That’s a good point. But some bench players are brought in only as bats. And it’s not like Jorge couldn’t play *any* position at all. He could do 1B, C, DH when necessary.
Anyway, I fully expected him to hang it up after this season, and I was perfectly fine with that. I’m just saying, if he really wants to stick around, and he’s willing to assume a much reduced role (for a lot less money), there is a possibility for the Yankees to sign him on for another year.
Who you have winning this WS?
21/25 espn “experts” picking Texas.
Accuscore has St. Louis winning tonight 55/45.
M
is “no one” a choice?
If not, I will go w/ the Cards.
I don’t like the antler and claw group. OTOH, how enjoyable would it be to see the club Cliff Lee spurned even more than the Yankees win w/o him.
joe form long island-
i also think it’s fine for posada to retire if that’s what he wants.unfortunately no one knows because of all the misinformation out there what posada’s concussion situation is. for some reason that became a big mystery.
Shame – That’s true, though I think that’s a problem with Joe, not necessarily Posada. Whether he really is or not, Joe has always seemed to be uncomfortable dealing with Posada. That impression (or reality) probably comes from the fact that they played together, or that Joe is a “young” manager. Can’t imagine someone like Torre or Lou being tentative about how to handle the Posada situation (or being distracted by it).
kate,
I still have the Yankees winning it all!
Hate the antler/claw thing. Hate Jumping Jack Flash in the dugout. I think Texas wins it. As for Cliff Lee, I thought we were the 2nd runner up?
Excited about the WS……the ratings will be bad but its an interesting matchup…..both teams have hot offenses…..both teams have middle of the pack rotations….bad teams are fairly bad defensively……and both teams have good bullpens.
I think the Texas lineup being deeper wins the series……these first two games are critical for St. Louis…..
Go Cards!
Temp predicted to be 48 at gametime…..
So, what would all of you put up for a posting fee bid?
I am unsure myself…
“Can’t imagine someone like Torre or Lou being tentative about how to handle the Posada situation (or being distracted by it).”
Actually, I could imagine Torre being loyal to a fault and screwing things up by playing Posada every day regardless of his production. It isn’t just about Uncle Joe, this is an organization trying to shift away from its aging players. Not because they hate the guys but because seasons change, so goes life. My point is that there is a lot more to it than just ability. Can he be a bat off the bench? IMO, sure. Would he really be the best option given all the baggage he will come with? I can’t decide. Would he even be effective in that role considering he struggled last year with limited playing time? I just don’t think so.
I understand he had to adjust this season and I don’t think its fair to assess him on last year alone because he was used so sporadically.. but he’ll be used far less next season if this club is serious about getting some of these young catchers (well deserved) playing time.
for Darvish of course
Not sure that Boston would dip their toes in that water again.
There will surely be more bidders than there was for Daisuke.
I’d put up $30M. I know that won’t get it done, but beyond that, it’s ridiculous, and the money could be used elsewhere.
35-40 million……its not my money and doesn’t go against the luxury tax. If they could get him for35 million posting and say a 4/50 contract then that’s still going to be cheaper than CJ Wilson and only 50 of it goes on the payroll.
I remember the doomsday posts about not going after or getting Aroldis Chapman. Good times.
They should have gone after Chapman too.
This blind bidding sucks. The rangers are going to go after Darvish too. I hope the yanks win this. It wont cost prospects, draft picks or go against luxury tax.
What does Yu project to be? Surely not a 1 or 2 in the States. I don’t know that I would put up that kind of money for a mid-rotation guy. We have Nova right now, and I’m sure more will be coming up. Banuelos will be slotting in soon. He might be just a year behind Yu as far as making it to the majors.
“What does Yu project to be? Surely not a 1 or 2 in the States. ”
I haven’t seen him pitch but a lot of the reports suggest he coukd be a good 2…..but as the article says I think you treat him as an expensive prospect.
Darvish makes an estimated 500,000,000 Yen per year. That’s about $6.5 million. He’d probably expect at least that in AAV from whoever wins the bid.
bid 45 million for him and offer him 10 million a year
A prospect that has dominated AAA 4 straight years more or less.
You know the Yankees will consider the financial ramifications of having the japanese market back also…..
Im almost guessing the Yankees are planning on making a big play for Darvish….but don’t want it to seem that way in an attempt to keep opposing bids down.
I don’t think they like Wilson and they wont want to give Texas their first rounder either.
Get Darvish…..try to trade for Danks.
Well if you win the bid @45 and his contract is 5/50, that’s $19mil/year. Even if only 50 is on the official payroll, that’s a lot of money for someone who has to be considered a “top prospect”, but has not really pitched against major league quality hitters.
Greetings, Blake, Joe, Shame, m, Kate and Erin.
Would like to see the Yankees get in on Davish. Also Jorge should do what he thinks is best for him. I think he can still hit.
“Well if you win the bid @45 and his contract is 5/50, that’s $19mil/year.”
I wouldn’t go that high with the posting or that long with the deal…..but still the this g that matters most is that only 10 million per hear would go towards the luxury tax……if the Yanks are cool with paying the additional money then its fine with me……for what they charge for tickets and concessions etc…..
Afternoon comet
Darvish is a very expensive gamble, but so was Igawa and so was CC and so if everyone you shell out big $$$ for.
I suspect Darvish will go for a large chunk of change with it averaging out to something in the $ 18-22 a year range. You certainly get CJ Wilson for less than that I would think.
As for Jorge. He should know that it’s time and leave head held high, but it’s his life and his legacy. I’m still not convinced he couldn’t have caught 1X a week last season.