Triple-A Year in Review
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 24, 2011 
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Some of you follow the Yankees minor league system very closely, and for you, this is going to be familiar information. For those who don’t pay much attention, we’ll try to provide the nuts and bolts with a level-by-level look at what happened this season, and we’ll start at the top with Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre.
Young pitching was expected to be a strength, and it was The Triple-A Yankees were fourth in the International League with a 3.80 ERA, but their lineup was in the bottom half of the league in runs scored.
Hitter of the Year: 1B Jorge Vazquez
He strikes out a ton, but there’s no denying the raw power of perhaps the organization’s most unusual prospect. Vazquez is already 29 years old, and he spent most of his career playing in Mexico, but at this point there’s little reason to doubt his ability to hit. His batting average is, well, average. His on-base percentage is disappointing. But the guy hit 32 home runs and 20 doubles in 118 Triple-A games this season. He missed a little bit of time with minor injuries and still finished second in the league in RBI.
Starter of the Year: RHP D.J. Mitchell
Honestly, you could make a case for Mitchell, Adam Warren or David Phelps, and truthfully, Mitchell is probably the smallest name of the bunch. He doesn’t have Phelps strikeout stuff, and Warren held hitters to a lower batting average, but Mitchell has ground ball stuff that carried him to 13 wins and a 3.18 ERA through 161.1 innings. A 10th-round pick in 2008, Mitchell would probably standout more if he weren’t in an organization with so much pitching depth. As it is, he’s more than holding his own with bigger names.
Reliever of the Year: RHP George Kontos
In the first half, it was closer Kevin Whelan who stood out, but by the end of the season, it was impossible to ignore Kontos. In his first full year back from Tommy John surgery, Kontos fully adapted to the bullpen as a long reliever with a 2.62 ERA, .221 opponents batting average and a little more than a strikeout per inning. The Yankees rewarded Kontos with a 40-man spot and a September call-up. He fell a little bit off the prospect map after the injury, but he’s back on the radar and pitched his way into the big league mix for next season.
Breakout performance: RHP Kevin Whelan
This is probably the closest Scranton came to a traditional breakout performance. Jordan Parraz had a great year in the outfield, but I’m not sure it changed his status. Lance Pendleton earned a lot of big league time, but he finished year out of the organization. Justin Maxwell was doing big things before he got hurt. Whelan, on the other hand, landed on the 40-man roster by finally improving his control and taking advantage of good stuff that’s always led to low opponents batting averages. Now the question is whether the Yankees were impressed enough to keep Whelan on the 40-man this winter. It might be telling that he didn’t get a September call-up.
Disappointing numbers: RHP Andrew Brackman
After last season, and strong first impression this spring, things seemed to be back on track for the former first-round pick. But the wheels fell off again this season. Brackman seemed to fall back into his old rut of high walk totals and erratic production. There is a bright side to his 6.00 ERA: In the second half, Brackman’s ERA was a much-improved 2.35 with a .149 opponents batting average. In his last nine outings — coming immediately after a nine-walk disaster — Brackman had a legitimately good pitching line: 20.1 IP, 11 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 6 BB, 17 K.
Top prospect watch: C Jesus Montero
There were quite a few prospects on this roster, but obviously none stands out quite like Montero. The Yankees top young hitter finally emerged in the second half and made an impact down the stretch. Overall, it wasn’t the dominant season some predicted — .288/.348/.467 — but he had a good July and a terrific August, and he might be finished with the minor leagues altogether. Of the regular catchers in the league, Montero had the lowest caught stealing percentage at just 20.5 percent. Montero was the only regular catcher below 25 percent and he was well behind league leader Raul Chavez who threw out 47.1 percent of base stealers.
Noteable: 3B Brandon Laird took a step back from last year’s breakout season, but still showed some of the power that makes him an intriguing corner man… Two of the true breakout prospect performances this season came from RHP Ivan Nova and RHP Hector Noesi, but they combined for only nine Triple-A appearances because they spent so much time in New York… OF Justin Maxwell spent most of the year on the disabled list, but before he got hurt, he had a .358 on-base percentage and a .588 slugging percentage. He’s still on the 40-man, and given the Yankees lack of upper-level outfield depth, his 48 games do standout a little bit… RHP David Phelps would have led the team in strikeouts with a relatively low walk total if not for a late-season injury. He’s now getting innings down the Arizona Fall League… If he had a spot on the 40-man, OF Jordan Parraz might have won a call-up with his .289/.362/.440 slash line. Truth be told, he outhit both Greg Golson and Chris Dickerson down in Triple-A… This team used 40 different pitchers. Forty!
Jorge Vazquez is so intriguing.
Makes me tempted to force Montero behind the plate to use Vazquez as a DH.
Montero is a star, but the rest seem good to solid. Nova & Noesi I can see as starters, but the rest are bench/fill-ins?
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repost:
I would love to have Buehrle be this year’s Garcia for us. Of course we won’t get a sweetheart deal like we did with Freddie.
I had a dream last week that I found out Buehrle was English, and was stunned by that fact. Who knows what runs through our subconscious?
I think nova has IT. The guy may never be a true ACE but i have a feeling he is going to be a very good starting pitcher for us for years to come. Forget scouting reports and ceilings, this kid is a absolute gamer and has a amazing work ethic and somehow just keeps getting better and better. Kids got the hunger, the fight, the work ethic, the swagger, and the mental mind set you want in every young pitcher. Cant coach stuff like that.
The feeling is that Vasquez wouldn’t translate well to big league pitching…..they should probably trade him
I don’t know if it is a fair comparison or not, but hearing about Vasquez makes me think of Shelley Duncan.
Talk about a swing with holes in it: Meet Jorge Vazquez He either makes tremendous contact or none.
DJ is still my favorite among him, Phelps, and Warren. I still say DJ becomes a very solid mlb pitcher. Just doubt it will be with us with our preference for velocity.
Brackman had better stats in the second half because he went to the pen.
what type of contract is wilson believed to be getting?
“what type of contract is wilson believed to be getting?”
Seems like 5/85 would be a starting poi t as to what they’d ask for.
I don’t like to see that Montero had the lowest base stealing percentage in the league. Add that to issues regarding framing, balls in the dirt, and calling a game and we may be seeing why he didn’t catch much.
Has anybody else noticed how awful the level of play is in the NFL this year……I just don’t get the NFL obsession…..
Justin Maxwell has always been intriguing. With some Kevin Long work, could he at least be a 4th OFer on a good team? Keep in mind guys like Nelson Cruz pop up late too.
blake- how many years does AJ have left on his deal?
Wilson is the best true FA pitcher on the market. He will get a nice pay day.
I love how Texas is poo-pooing the idea of Wilson. Or that beat writer. Don’t keep him because he’s not an ace. The problem with that logic is that there are no true aces on the market.
Makes you think that they very well could go hard after CC. If that’s the case, I do not want to get into an escalated bidding war for his services.
To be clear, I like CC. But I am not a CC at all cost person.
Its hard to judge CS percentages in the minors without knowing how well the pitchers are holding runners on…..
“blake- how many years does AJ have left on his deal?”
2
Whelan and Vazquez have no Yankee future. Brackman is trending downward. They along with one of Parraz, Golson, Maxwell, or Dickerson could be used as pieces for deals that Cashman feels he can fill a hole with. Something like a super utility player if one actually exists.
Something has to be decided with Cervelli. With his concussion issues, he’s fallen off the radar. The emergence of Montero, possibly Romine, and the lower classification catchers have the team in a comfy position with catching for many years ahead.
What i’m confused about is the fact its okay for cc to stink in the playoffs but not wilson… and its also not okay to sign wilson ( same age as cc) to five years and then go and sign CC to 7 more years.
CC has a much much longer track record of success and has a better delivery…..he’s also just a better pitcher. Sabathia has been in the CY race 3 years on a row.
CC has been better longer than Wilson, and isn’t a converted reliever who went from 60 ip to 200 ip in 1 offseason with command problems.
DJ Mitchell has always given up less hits than innings pitched. I see that as a pitcher with pretty good stuff even if not strike out stuff. He may well be in next year’s picture.
I agree CC is a near must, but not for seven years. If that is what it takes, go to plan B, but a better one than last year’s.:)
I believe the Yanks have 2 more option years on Brackman. Probably a couple of million each year.
I think they’ll try and hold onto him even if it means declining the option and re-working something smaller.
So, lets say we signed Wilson to the 5 years he wanted, And Sabathia Got his deal.
Sabathia would be 32 after next year, same as wilson, now lets say u went out and sign cole hamels who would be 28 to a 5-7 year deal.
Sabathia
Wilson
Hamels
Would all have deals in place to their mid 30 to late 30′s. Late for CC, not the others.
You then would have by that time figured out what you really have in nova, and hughes, they are either part of the rotation, bullpen, have been traded, or whatever. Same with the killer B’s.
What is so bad about having 3 guys locked up into their mid 30′s- late 30′s while having the 4-5 spots being used by very cheap young pitchers? If anything, Having cc around at that age scares me the most. With his weight and his work load? not a good recipe.
Isn’t Wilson a converted position player? He certainly does not have the track record to compete with CC. He has much less mileage on his arm and would be able to stay healthier than CC over the long-term imo.
The only thing that troubles me with CJ Wilson is that he does not throw particularly hard.
CJ for 3 would be great. But there’s no way he settles for that.
Not doubting Sabathia being better than wilson. But people also still fail to realize that Sabathia is a huge guy and has been taxed 3 years in a row. Bringing in a guy like wilson helps stable the rotation and take a lot of pressure off Sabathia. Knowing your the only Sure thing in a rotation year in and year out is no way to pitch. And you would think the yankees of all teams would have more support for their big man. No more patch jobs… Bring someone in to be the NUMBER 2 and help CC out.
I agree minor league pitchers often don’t hold runners well, but the statistical comparison was to other AAA catchers. Are we to presume the Yankee pitchers are the worst at holding runners? I don’t say that means Montero can never be acceptable at throwing out runners, but it does tend to support the scouts who question has agility in getting off a throw.
Barring a trade, I think the Yankees will carry three catchers including Montero, so either Romine or Cervelli are neeeded. A Cervelli trade seems difficult with the concussion issue, so I forecast he will return.
Does Wilson for 5 reasonable years look better than CC for 7 at close to $25M? Not in the short term.
Just depends on what your goals are. Is it to make the postseason every year? If you’re willing to hang tight until 2013, there might be other pitchers available. The problem is they might not.
Wilson and Sabathia are the same Age. One pitcher has been taxed like crazy the last 3 years, has weight problems, and wants a contract until he is nearly 40. Sure, wilson does not have the track record, the production, the innings as CC. But he is most likely asking for 5. Wilson’s 5 years in my opinion is a lot less scary than CC for 7 more.
m,
Waiting for Sabathia to hit free agency worked, but banking on players to be available in 2013 is a risky bet. Most top players sign extensions these days, unfortunately.
Who wouldn’t like to have Kemp, Hamels and the like? I would bet they will never see free agency.
Kemp would be smart. Playing in a less spacious park? He can’t ask for too much from the bankrupt Dodgers. He would likely have to leave money on the table.
If Hamels and Cain knew there was an extra $125M or there abouts in the Yankees coffers, they probably wouldn’t leave money on the table either. I think they hit FA. Why not? You can always go back to your team. Just be doing it at fair market value.
blake October 24th, 2011 at 3:56 pm
Has anybody else noticed how awful the level of play is in the NFL this year……I just don’t get the NFL obsession…..
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huge $$$$$$ in fantasy football…I’m in a $500 league myself and that keeps my intrest
The Yankees want stability out of the 2 spot in their rotation. AJ flopped, Andy retired, Nova might be able to hold it down… but we just dont know.
I think the yankees will obviously look to make a splash this off-season. They cant look forward to next year… those guys might negotiate mid-season.
As scary as some believe wilson’s contract is, i really do think its the most safe bet at this point.
Sabathia-Wilson is a pretty damn good combo to have. Wilson gives you 3 prime years, and probably 2 decent years during his time. I think that’s exactly what the doctor ordered for this rotation. Burnett will be gone in 2 years, the young guys will have only gotten more experience, and it still gives you the option to possibly go out and get hamels next year and really bolster the rotation.
Guessing time.
Where do Pujols, Fielder, and Wilson end up next year?
Sure, wilson does not have the track record, the production, the innings as CC. But he is most likely asking for 5. Wilson’s 5 years in my opinion is a lot less scary than CC for 7 more.
–
5 years of no track record, production, or innings of CC??? Wilson is too big a gamble. The next AJ Burnett. He has a history of control issues and its pretty evident this postseason. I will be surprised if he walks less than 4 guys tonight. I wouldn’t sign him because I think he’d either break down or just suck in the next 2 years. CC might get burned out during the season but he is always there at the start of one and still pitches hella innings. And he has pitched in NY. The Yankees know what they will be getting in CC.
There are arguments that can be made for say…Wilson vs Darvish, but not CJ vs CC. CC wins every time.
CJ would be a perfect #2. The problem is we are already spending #2 money on AJ. And Nova and a healthy Hughes can also fill the role.
Maybe CJ Wilson goes into play if CC opts out?
m,
The Rangers in bankruptcy spend money. MLB will take care of a very valuable franchise in the Dodgers. Additionally, that is more than a year away and who knows the state of the Dodegers by then. They will either trade him or sign him.
Hamels and Cain? Who knows, but each of their teams have money.
I question whether the Yankees believe they have big money to spend. They have too many long and expensive contracts as it is, and must want to avoid that into the future. As it is, their 2013 payroll right now is probably over $100M with a handful of players.
Tabbert October 24th, 2011 at 4:13 pm
Wilson and Sabathia are the same Age. One pitcher has been taxed like crazy the last 3 years, has weight problems, and wants a contract until he is nearly 40. Sure, wilson does not have the track record, the production, the innings as CC. But he is most likely asking for 5. Wilson’s 5 years in my opinion is a lot less scary than CC for 7 more.
________
How are you even making the postseason without CC giving you what he gives in the regular season? CJ can’t duplicate C. in either regular or postseason play. C. had a helluva 2011; his value in ’11 is underrated. Maybe cut C’s innings back a little, instead of riding him so hard. But less years for a lesser product in this case is a lose-lose. You are not just exchanging 7 years for 5; you are exchanging CC for CJ.
m October 24th, 2011 at 4:20 pm
Guessing time.
Where do Pujols, Fielder, and Wilson end up next year?
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Pujols stays,Fielder to SF & Wilson # 2 SP for you know who
No way you sign C to 7 and CJ to 5. We don’t need CJ.
I’m not saying I want Wilson over Sabathia guys. I’m saying that i want them both… but that sabathia for 7 more years scares me a lot more than wilson for 5. Sorry for not trusting a 300 pound pitcher, whom pitchers 200 innings a year, to hold up until he is 40.
Wilson gives you 3 prime years, and probably 2 decent years during his time.
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Nah, this is the same thing people said about AJ Burnett. Whats going to happen is that Wilson is going to have a good year next year then start walking everyone and lose just enough off his FB and will overcompensate by throwing his cutter, further increasing his walk rate and giving up more hits and HRs.
I am from the future.
yankeefeminista October 24th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
No way you sign C to 7 and CJ to 5. We don’t need CJ.
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rather have Colon and Garcia….
CC & CJ is the new CC & AJ, this time they’re older edition!
The Phillies are strapped imo.
The Giants would more likely retain Cain. And what pitcher would want to leave that huge ballpark?
If the Phillies do not make noise next postseason, maybe they let Hamels go and try to gain offense.
The Dodgers aren’t going anywhere soon. They can’t afford to lose Kemp, but at some point players want to win. But who knows, maybe he’s a Carl Crawford type that likes being under the radar?
Tabbert, I don’t like the length of the contract either, but he won’t be 40. He’ll be 38. And he doesn’t have to be our ace until that age. As for signing CJ, why? Too many years and not enough value.
Austinmac,
Yea that’s true…..I just take it with a grain of salt and knowing that he’s a work in progress behind the plate. He doesn’t need to be Yaddie Molina to catch some and have value there.
The Yankees will only make a move if it puts them over the top.
I don’t think what it’s going to take to retain CC + what it’s going to take to get the top FA starter in CJ is going to be worth the return.
CC/Hughes/Nova/AJ+ Noesi/Veteran
CC/CJ/Hughes/Nova/AJ
is not all that different imo.
CJ is younger than AJ was…..CC is older than CC was though.
wilson innings went up this year, his walks went down, and his era went down. So, in his second full season he got better… which means its always possible for him to get even better this next year? Burnett has a 4.10 era for his career… no way wilson would ever regress that much. Comparing the two isn’t fair at all. Wilson doesn’t have mental problems like AJ.
Dominique Piek
M-
Your saying that Noesi is just as good as CJ Wilson basically.
“Burnett has a 4.10 era for his career… no way wilson would ever regress that much. Comparing the two isn’t fair at all. Wilson doesn’t have mental problems like AJ.”
AJ doesn’t have mental problems…..he has repeating his delivery and diminishing stuff problems…..and CJ could certainly regress to a 4 era pitcher…..especially if injury occurs…..which is very possible given how he throws the ball.
“CC is older than CC was though.”
Bingo. That’s why you don’t throw a blank check at him again. Yes, we need him as an ace, but he won’t be our ace for 9 or 10 years (dating back to 2009). But he’ll be getting paid like one at an advanced age for a starting pitcher.
And… i Don’t want to hear anything about the pressure of New York. Live in Texas and can assure you Dallas is a big pressure city to play in. Not to mention, Wilson has played for a team, a city, and a owner, desperate for a world series, and played in a world series two years in a row. Playing in new york wont phase this guy at all. Anyone who actually thinks that, has never followed the kid or knows very little about him. His personality would fit right in to the clubhouse.
So, in his second full season he got better… which means its always possible for him to get even better this next year? Burnett has a 4.10 era for his career… no way wilson would ever regress that much. Comparing the two isn’t fair at all. Wilson doesn’t have mental problems like AJ.
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What mental problems? CJ Wilson has the same command problems AJ has. Last year he posted his lowest walk rate ever but AJ from 2004 to 2008 posted a 3.3 bb/9. And CJ Wilson is getting older, not entering his prime. And AJ’s ERA before becoming a yankee was 3.81 in a harder offensive era than CJ Wilson has pitched.
I wouldn’t give CC a blank check…..I don’t think it’ll take that much to be the highest bidder though.
Almost saying that.
I don’t know CJ’s #s from this year. But Noesi will pitch almost as well as CJ for a hell of a lot less. And in a year Banuelos might be ready.
Garcia & Colon pitched pretty well, too. (although it’s not likely we’ll strike that kind of gold again).
I don’t not like CJ. And if CC left, I’d give him a serious look. We’d have a staff full of #2′s.
But you never know in baseball. Nothing is guaranteed.
Nothing wrong with DJ Mitchell’s fastball. It’s at 93-94 MPH, but throws a heavy sinker. He’s like Wang…plenty of fastball but gets a ton of ground balls. As far as Montero’s throwing…nothing wrong with it. If there’s more than 2 pitchers in the organization that knows how to hold runners, I’d be shocked. Phelps is about the only one with a decent move, but, still slow to the plate.
No, it probably wouldn’t take that much to be the highest bidder. But we will never know, right? And the Yankees *have* to bring him back, so we have very little leverage imo. If they could keep it to 2 years with out a huge jump in AAV, then that would be satisfactory to me. Any more, and I start getting resentful.
Blake- you don’t know if he will get injured though.
The guy plays in a hitters park, pitches in way warmer weather,and has manged a 3.34 era and a era in the 2′s this season. So, no… I don’t think he is just going to regress into some 4 era pitcher. Just because he has command problems at times, and he wants a big deal just like AJ doesn’t make Him AJ. Yea, he could get injured, yea, he could turn into a 4 era pitcher over night, yea he could just break down tomorrow. But, all of those things could just as easily not happen or happen to any other player in the league.
Why spend money on CJ that you can save for a superior 2013 FA class or use for posting money, luxury tax-free, for Darvish? You will also have a better sense of who is viable from the minors in 2013 or sooner rather than having those pitchers blocked by CJ. You instead sign C., re-sign Freddy, give Noesi and co a shot at 5th SP.
Also, although our position players including Cano will be costly long term, we can balance that by soon becoming more cost effective on the pitching front with hopefully 2/3 of our 5 starting pitchers home-grown (AJ off the books by 2014) with the exceptions of 1.) C. if he re-ups, 2.) a perhaps 2013 FA pitcher, depending on who’s available, and perhaps Darvish. By not signing CJ, you also have more cash for Kemp. Five years of CJ is five years too many.
“Blake- you don’t know if he will get injured though.”
No I don’t…..but he has some risk factors that need to be considered ……look id be interested at 3 years or less but the commitment that’s being predicted for him is a huge risk.
Jim Thome going to try again in 2012.
m,
Why not, he can still hit. Besides, he needs another lake house. Somebody will pay him.
GB, DJ was mostly sitting 88-90/91 whenever I watched him or read reports. Although with that great movement on the sinker.
Nice little article on whether or not Gardner and Granderson should switch positions.
http://riveraveblues.com/2011/.....son-58043/
They conclude that the switch would not be a significant upgrade.
If there’s a different RF, then maybe Gardner’s range makes sense in CF?
Oh, yeah. Yankees OF was awesome. Best in 2011 UZR. 2nd best in the last 2 years behind Arizona (by 0.3 runs)
“The lefty is looking forward to free agency and noted to Heyman that he doesn’t have a wife, a child, or a dog, implying the decision will be entirely his.”
From mlbtr. that’s CJ Wilson’s comment to Heyman. The reference to a dog is in homage to Ichiro? They’re both pretty quirky.
lol, about the dog, maybe CJ is a cat person?
Has to be an ichiro reference, CJ is a pretty astute guy from what I gather.
Phiilies are breaking up their best ever rotation. They’ve declined to pick up both Oswalt’s and Lidge’s options and most likely will not offer arbitration.
Astute, but not sharp, eh, JR?
They still could sign Oswalt to a more friendly contract.
UZR is all fine and dandy, but it is flawed and doesn’t measure “talent,” and just to play Devil’s Advocate, I would bet Rays OF should be in that mix: Jennings, Upton are better in LF, CF on pure ability than most, likely including Gardner, Granderson. However, I am a big fan of the latter’s D. Suffice it to say, I do find these so-called categories to be suspect and the comparisons to be unscientific. OF “D” is oh so difficult to measure.
GB, oh what a pity! First the best team in history loses its GM and manager. Now the best pitching rotation in history is dismantled. How will mlb survive it?!
A cat doesn’t much care where it is (an indoor cat, I mean. My cat would claw me from head to foot if she couldn’t go outside.) provided the food was fresh and ample and the kitty litter was clean. CJ, for $15 mil per year, could probably make that happen.
That sounds like their plan, blake.
What does this mean? “A Type A free agent, Oswalt almost certainly won’t receive an offer of arbitration.”
Are they worried, they Oswalt would cost more than $16M in arbitration? Or is that a typo?
YF,
It is very likely that the Yankees were even more awesome than their numbers, as they include #s that were not kind to Granderson.
His club option was for 16 million I believe
m, well yes, UZR’s lack of accuracy with regard to Granderson kind of says it all.
After two DL stints for a bad back and the huge drop off by Oswalt, he’ll do well to get an $8 mil deal for one year and an option for another. He’ll be 35 brfore the ’12 season is over.
$16 mill and would like to bring both Oswalt and Lidge back to Philly.
If they offered him Arbitration he’d probably take it and get a pay raise or stay at the 16 mil level. But by declining it they run the risk of him returning to Houston.
yankeefeminista October 24th, 2011 at 5:19 pm
UZR is all fine and dandy, but it is flawed and doesn’t measure “talent,” and just to play Devil’s Advocate, I would bet Rays OF should be in that mix: Jennings, Upton are better in LF, CF on pure ability than most, likely including Gardner, Granderson. However, I am a big fan of the latter’s D. Suffice it to say, I do find these so-called categories to be suspect and the comparisons to be unscientific. OF “D” is oh so difficult to measure.
GB, oh what a pity! First the best team in history loses its GM and manager. Now the best pitching rotation in history is dismantled. How will mlb survive it?!
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Maybe so, but, Boston still has the best “country boy spread” going…even if they need to buy it themselves.
mel,
“But Noesi will pitch almost as well as CJ for a hell of a lot less.” Stop it. We need to remove
our blinders for homegrown players sometime. He had a mid 4 era, more hits than innings and a whip of 1 and a half. I know he has good velocity and decent stuff.
Could he be a back end to mid rotation guy. Sure. Do we really know. Not really. Two words for you. Generation trey.
The reason I like Nova is he was that one pitcher that no one even hyped up and happened
to sneak up on everyone. Improved his one inning collapses and learned how to flat out pitch.
I hope all of our young farm pitchers help the ball club. But in reality, if one of 8 do , its good
enough. Go with the known rather than the unknown more times than not. Not saying CJ is the answer. Im not sold on him. But dont let potential hold you back from getting a big league stud. CC for 5 not a half year more. Find a taker for Burnett, eat some salary if need be.
Oswalt is another pitcher that’s a good bet to end up on St. Louis with Buehrle.
Just heard Hollands imitation of Washington when he came out and got him in the 9th…..hilarious. Pettite texted him to congratulate him as well he said.
Why does Noesi have to pitch to #2-middle of rotation quality? He just needs to be a #5. Who says CJ will repeat what he did in 2011? Maybe Nova will be better than CJ? Maybe Hughes will win 18 games. It is pretty much a crapshoot as far as what CJ would or wouldn’t give us…
blake, what station was the Holland imitation of Washington on?
GreenBeret7 October 24th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
Maybe so, but, Boston still has the best “country boy spread” going…even if they need to buy it themselves.
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YF,
Mlbradio. He said Andy was his favorite player growing up. He’s a funny kid (horrible stache) but a very good interview.
Thank you, yankeefeminista. Someone is paying attention.
Yes, I read that Holland was a big Pettitte fan. I greatly appreciated that, plus Holland was one of my redraft pitchers in 2010. He was my LOOGY out of the pen, and he was filthy. I am staunchly rooting against Texas but I do like Holland.
m, you mean about Granderson’s inexplicably bad UZR?
Sos, what does “Generation Trey” (ugh, never liked that name) have to do with our current young pitchers? Cash was inexperienced and foolishly brought all three up at once with silly expectations. All three were talented and still are. They just couldn’t be expected to all succeed from the womb. Not understanding that they would have growing pains and not having any backup plan showed our inexperience integrating young pitchers into our lineup. Especially attempting to do so all at once. Noesi already has a season under his belt and is not being asked to be anything but a back end contributer, assuming he even starts.
YF,
Stop encouraging her!! Some pitchers are less crapshoots than others and some are just crap(Burnett and shades). I just dont want us to think we can fix all our problems from within.
The dynasty teams did it both ways. Get me someone like Cain and ill be happy.
Have a good night fellas!! Cant get myself to watch a single inning since we were eliminated.
Tough to be me lately. Yankees out. Colts suck and nba lockout. Started watching a new sitcom
called whitney to keep me busy. Glad Walking dead came back or I would probably go buy a dog to keep me busy.
OK, m, you are referring to Noesi’s role then?
Sos, I don’t think we think that we can fill in solely from within, but we are going to be much more self-sufficient going forward and will have many pitchers to choose from. And then there is the FA 2013 pitching group if they don’t all re-sign with their current clubs…
And I feel your pain. Luckily, my football team is still in and I watch hockey, but I am still in withdrawal and counting the days until pitchers and catchers report…
Yes, Noesi’s role.
SoS, I think you need to go back and read my original post at 4:32 pm. I don’t have Noesi any higher than a back end starter.
m, I thought it might be Noesi in retrospect. Absolutely.
YF,
“brought all three up at once with silly expectations”. Exactly. Just let these guys develop and
see what that box of chocolate has in store. No one knows what will come out of Noesi his second full season. Lets stop expecting all of our young starters/relievers to be our next #1 or closers. That kid in Houston was the FOR SURE thing to be MOs successor. He was shipped out.
Robertson wasnt ever in the conversation and he looks like the ideal candidate(ala Nova). Lets enjoy being Yankee fans where our farm doesnt have to always be the answer. Money fills any cracks we might have. Felix and Pujols will fill the DH and #2 spot by thanksgiving while Fielder pinch hits and Michael Young gives our infiield a breather.
Have a good one YF and all.
Is Noesi the back end starter really just going to pitch almost as well as CJ Wilson as a starter over the course of the 2012 season?
I am not trashing CJ Wilson in any way, but if you’re going to point out Noesi’s first year in the bullpen, then you need to look at CJ’s first year: 1-7 with a 6.94 ERA with a 1.688 WHIP. Of course he was a converted position player, but still. Noesi’s pitched all of 56 innings in the majors. Who knows what he can do?
My bad mel. I should have known that my bff wouldnt have any part of the silly season.
YF,
Im a red wing fan but usually dont follow until playoffs. Its gotten so bad i might have to take
in some soccer.
Now let me get back to my depression state and go back to my cave.
I don’t know if Noesi could pitch as well as Wilson next year …..but I think he could pitch as well or better than AJ ……which is why I would try very very hard to find somebody to take him.
Joelsherman1 Joel Sherman
Cashman met with Hal Steinbrenner in NY today, mainly about baseball. Sign both feel new pact for GM will be easily done by Oct. 31 #Yankees
CJ Wilson was a pitcher, never a position player (unless it was in college) he pitched in the minors.
Sos, how do you end up Yankees, Colts and Red Wings? My only non-NY area transgression is in hockey (long story), (and college hockey b/c I went to school in New England).
SoS,
You’re just projecting now. I did not say that Noesi was going to be our next #1 (and for the record CJ would not be #1 either).
If you go back and read the original post, I didn’t think it would be all that different. Would it be better? Of course. I really, really hate to do it, but I have to say it, the AL West and the AL East are appreciatively apart in talent & ballparks. I do believe there is a difference in pitching in the AL East.
Anyway, it’s difficult to compare a starter with a first year reliever.
I was just saying that I felt we could do without CJ Wilson.
I don’t know what Noesi can do! But I didn’t say he will be almost as good as CJ Wilson.
Nova will hopefully be almost as good as CC next year, but they’re still going to work hard to bring the big man back for a lot more money than Nova will be making.
(Disclosure: I am not in favor of going after CJ Wilson based on current situation)
GB, good to hear. Get on the C. signing, Cash.
SoS,
Disregard my 6:06 post.
JF,
“Wilson played outfield, first base, started, and relieved at Loyola Marymount University during the 2001 season.”
I may have my players or stories mixed up. I thought it was Nolan Ryan who took an active interest in converting CJ to a pitcher. It might be a different player all together.
I’d be wary of CJ Wilson if only for the fact that Texas doesn’t seem particularly nonplussed about his impending FA.
Wonder if the Marlins would be untreated in another go round with AJ of the Yanks could help with the money? They had pretty good success with Javy this year. Send AJ and his talents to south beach
You may be thinking of Ogando. And I meant Texas doesn’t seem particularly plussed/seems particularly nonplussed.
JF,
Thanks for that. So, CJ Wilson is another in a long line of pitchers who think they are good hitters?
\visions of grandeured?
Nova and Noesi put up pretty similar numbers in their short first seasons, with Noesi’s being slightly better. I know one started and the other relieved, but the rest of the numbers are pretty close. Noesi was better in the minors, though. No reason to think that Noesi can’t come close to Nova’s 2011 season if he starts in 2012.
yf,
im in socal, was an angels fan till they completely quit in the sox al championship series. favorite player was already donny baseball. So it was an easy transition. Was a dan marino fan and when he retired I looked for a qb that was similiar. Manning surpassed my expectation. Was a stevey y fan. Wish my teams moved over here.
Article on CJ Wilson. Caple managed to work in a bloody sock reference.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/playoff.....ion-game-5
Just some musings: “Just a back-end starter”, “can’t hit righties”, ” looks awkward in the outfield”, “can’t stand the bright lights”, “give CJ five for 85″, “can’t hit in the majors”, blah, blah, blah. Prospects are just that; nobody knows. Wasn’t Nova a “back end” pitcher? Well, lets wait and see. It strikes me that that everyone here is a GM, and think the guys who actually do that job are idiots. Some are, but I don’t think ours is. The guys in MiLB are there because there is a belief they will progress. We all have our opinions, but I want to see guys on the field prove their worth. If Cashman can get some good ones and weed out the never-will-be’s, that’s good enough for me. If he decides to trade value for value, that’s fine, too. That’s why they have a platoon of scouts everywhere. Will there be mistakes? You bet. Will there be successes? You bet.
SoS, Yes, you are quite a distance from your teams. That must be tough. I have always been a huge Peyton fan, my favorite football player besides Revis, in spite of being a Jets fan. (Even when the Colts were in our division…) Always liked the Red Wings because they played a more Euro style and rooted for them against the Devils. Stevie Y was a great and historically underrated player. My NHL God is Lemieux who I saw play in NY metro for many years and have been a fan of his team since his inception. So, I guess when it comes to hockey, we are rivals.
GB, it wouldn’t surprise me if Noesi has a very good year. He has both the pitches and the exceptional command to succeed IF they give him the opportunity to start consistently.
Whoever says Justin Maxwell will compare to Cruz…..that is laughable.
The only player that can compare to Cruz is Jorge Vazquez. Look at their winter league stats when Cruz used to play a few years ago. They are exact!! Who said Vazquez’s stats wont translate to ML pitching. Well, lets see, this year off of Volquez of the Reds, 1-2 2rbi double. Off of CY YOUG winner, Jake Peavy, a bomb off of the scoreboard 3 run HR. Off of Vance Worley, 2 HR in one game. Off of Chapman of the Reds, a line shot single off of the wall that I thought was going to go through it!! Spring Trng bomb off of Brad Lidge, and John Lannan. Off of Kimbrel, a pretty good pitcher who throws 100.. a ninth inning game winning BOMB out of the stadium. He can hit ML pitching!!!!!