Draft slotting system still being debated
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 27, 2011 
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Late last night, The Associated Press moved an update on MLB’s negotiations for a new collective bargaining agreement. The last major issue involves a slotting system for the draft. Putting such a system in place would eliminate a team’s ability to spend big money to sign late-round picks, a strategy the Yankees have used in the past. Here’s the update from the AP.
ST. LOUIS (AP) — While the NBA struggles with negotiations during its lockout, signing bonuses for amateur draft picks is the last major issue left in talks for baseball’s new labor contract.
Representatives for players and owners met Tuesday in New York, people familiar with the session told The Associated Press, speaking on condition of anonymity because no announcements were authorized.
Commissioner Bud Selig wants a system of fixed signing bonuses that tie the amount to when a prospect is drafted, known as slotting. Players have traditionally said the signing bonuses should be the subject of negotiation.
While draft bonuses are the last big issue, those provisions are tied to other parts of the agreement, such as the luxury tax, the reserve system and the minimum salary, the people said.
Players and owners have come to an understanding on how to handle testing for human growth hormone, but not necessarily a definitive agreement, one of the people said.
The current agreement expires Dec. 11, and talks have proceeded throughout the year without the rancor that surrounded negotiations during the NFL and NBA lockouts.
Following eight work stoppages from 1972-95, baseball has had labor peace since the 7½-month strike in 1994-95 that canceled the World Series for the first time in nine decades. The sides agreed to a contract in August 2002, hours before the scheduled start of a strike, to conclude an agreement without a work stoppage for the first time since 1970. They struck a deal in 2006 on the day of World Series Game 3 in St. Louis, nearly two months before their agreement was to expire.
Yankee Trader October 27th, 2011 at 8:58 am
MLBTR’s has an update on SF Giants.
Their pitching is getting expensive. Matt Cain gets 15M this year and if they want to extend him they are looking at a big outlay.
List of some of the arb-eligible pitchers and their salaries[projected]
Arbitration Eligible Players (estimated salaries)
•Tim Lincecum, SP: $19.2MM
•Jonathan Sanchez, SP: $5.2MM
•Pablo Sandoval, 3B: $3.2MM
•Jeff Keppinger, 2B: $2.7MM
•Andres Torres, CF: $2.5MM (non-tender candidate)
•Ryan Vogelsong, SP: $2.5MM
•Ramon Ramirez, RP: $2.3MM
•Santiago Casilla, RP: $1.9MM
•Sergio Romo, RP: $1.3MM
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for sure would knock on the door of the Giants…they could use some hitters & Yankees could use some SPing…
Swisher does have power that Maxwell/Dickerson wouldn’t replace.
I know Swisher hasn’t been the player we’d hoped he be in the playoffs, but you don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. He’s not the awful player that is being presented here lately.
ESPN.com’s Buster Olney wrote last week that Selig is unlikely to fight hard for slotting since doing so would risk extending the negotiations. Selig repeated later in the week that slotting is “really critical” for him.
Have to go just when I was formulating an offer for Matt Cain, with Plan B, an offer for Sanchez and Keppinger!!
Villa Nova-totally agree on Swish
GB7
“The old guy that I talked to”
—————————————————————–
If you are calling him old he must be really old.
Maine, you’re getting mean. You must have been sniffing those moose patties,
sounds like an opportunity for a Randy joke
Kate,
the first time I saw Montero when he played in the GCL in ’07 for a couple of games, but watched him in Charleston and Savannah in ’08. That bat was special even then, The defense was brutal, but it was all mechanics. I watched him hit 2 homers through the trees (both 45-470 feet to left center) at Grayson Stadium in Savannah. They ended up in the road. The old guy that I talked to often, said that the only time he had seen a player do that was Mantle in ’57 when the yanks played the dodgers on the way north after ST.
Blake,
I have to believe the Yankees don’t want to go into another year hoping for Colon/Garcia good fortune. Add a solid no.2 and add a left handed bat to combat the weakness against right handers and along with re-signing CC, they would be good to go. All easier said than done.
Cain, Darvish, Danks would all be targets, or at least they should be. Wilson at some price would also be acceptable. I do wonder about Cain out of the Giants cavernous right field fence.
I don’t even pretend to understand fully the draft system in baseball anymore, aside from the fact that the worse you do, the higher you draft.
Teams that consistently do well have to have some way to replenish their systems over time. If you consistently finish in the upper tier of teams you consistently have lower draft picks and while no prospects are ever a guarantee, and while some lower picks go on to have stellar careers, the system is more or less set up so that poor teams can get better and good teams are left on their own to figure out how to “work the system.” They figured out how to “work” the draft, so now that is going to be restructured.
I am somewhat uneasy with a system that seems to want every team to be exactly equal and has no problem “penalizing” teams that do well both on the field and financially. Or maybe I see it that way because of my POV as a Yankees fan.
For teams like the Yankees, it means money is going to have to be spent in other areas that MLB so far can’t put boundaries on – like, scouting, coaching, training facilities, and the like.
Swisher is a good player and an asset, but I don’t consider him a $ 10 M a year guy, that’s all.
If they pick up his option that’s fine, but if they can deal him in a package for a big time arm that’s better.
Going with a younger player to save $$$ is what most organizations do every year and it’s what the Yanks did w/ Gardner (Damon) two years ago and Montero (Posada) for 2012.
It’s not “throwing the baby out with the bath water” —- which by the way is an inane cliche’
They’ll never get slotting past the union without giving up something big and trading draft choices isn’t enough.
Well, gee, 86w183 -
Thanks for the insult. No need for that.
We disagree. That is all.
There aren’t many oldfielder that are switch hitters that hit with power on the market and going after an older, injury prone outfielder for more money isn’t going to get it done.
many ***outfielder*** that
GB 7 —-
An agent told me the union is trying to get rid of free agent draft compensation as their price for accepting a form of “slotting”.
Villa Nova -Ya
No personal offense intended. Just attacking a phrase that makes me cringe…. sorry ’bout that
Personally, I’d like to see the amateur draft being done away with.
86
just b/c I am curious…what is wrong w/ that cliche?
“Please identify the teams that might love the idea of paying Swish $ 10 M for one year and what the Yanks might be able to get from them? The Phillies might make some sense with Howard likely to miss 2012. Dominc Brown and an arm?”
Yes I think Phillies would be a good fit…..possibly the Braves, Giants, Mariners, Tigers, etc.
It would need to be a team that’s a contender and a team that isn’t financially restrained ….at least not significantly…..but I think there are teams out there. If the Phillies would deal Brown for him that makes a lot of sense.
Note to self: if ever want to annoy 86w183, work in the phrase “throw the baby out with the bathwater”
I kid, 86, I kid
For anyone who didn’t get to read my smug post of the night last night, I am reposting it and casting it as my smug post of the day. I readily acknowledge that smugness has a potential price, that being the potential for a huge smackdown if any of the prognostications in the post turn out to be incorrect.
But they won’t.
******************
I told you a while ago that CC would be back in pinstripes so to forget all the turmoil, did I not?
I also told you the Sux were going to keep Scutaro (I gleaned that from the press conference, so I’m not claiming clairvoyance here. But I am willing to believe that Cherington isn’t putting out any red herrings at this point, so if he says they want Scutaro back, you can believe they do and they will get him.)
I am now telling you that AJ Burnett will NOT be traded and will be a member of next year’s starting rotation, so you might as well get used to it.
I’m actually not claiming claivoyance with any of this as much as I know I have the ability to read the obvious since my emotions aren’t tied up into it. It isn’t rocket science to figure out that the Yankees have no intention of giving up CC, nor does CC have any desire to go elsewhere.
I believe it’s also pretty easy to read the Yankee organization since they’re pretty transparent and are not given to blowing smoke. They still believe in AJ, and his postseason performance definitely enhanced that position.
Now there is a definite co*kiness and smugness to my tone, no question about it. I’m also smart enough to realize that any slip-up leaves me totally open to derision.
But I’m more than willing to take that chance.
Austinmac,
Yea I think there are multiple possibilities out there and I think they find one that fits this winter.
Re: the slotting system. I like it the way it is……personally id love them to leave it like it is AND add the ability to trade draft picks. It would make the draft way more exciting and gives teams the ability to take risks to improve. The slotting system isn’t as big an issue as it used to.be anyway because a lit more teams are paying over slot……its nit the advantage for big market teams that it used to be. I like that if you want to take a chance on a guy you can in the current system.
86w183 -
Thanks.
All I’m really trying to say is that while Swisher may have had his struggles in the post season, he is not without value to the Yankees as a RF during the regular season, and giving up upwards of 20 HRs on the season seems short-sighted and not easily replaced. The Yankees already have an outfielder w/o power.
Whatever the Yankees do, they do. The only things they could do over this winter that might “bother” me is not re-signing CC and trading Montero. (And not doing the first could unfortunately result in the second.)
Yankees starting rotation for 2012, in no particular order:
CC
AJ
Hughesie
Novasie
“Personally, I’d like to see the amateur draft being done away with.”
How would teams get players? As FA’s? As a Yankee fan that would be great……but it would doom most of the rest of the league
Let me add to my smug prognostications.
Montero will NOT be traded away by the Yankees, so you can stop worrying about that.
Novasie
********************
I wonder if Girardi does have a nickname for Nova. Ivy??
Erin -
Unsurprisingly…..the Cards are picking up Wainwrights options for 2012 and 2013. Also saying they aren’t expecting to discuss an extension.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com
See what they want for him Cash.
I have already seen Butch Wynegar call Montero “Monty”, so I guess we can forget “Jeezy” of “Hay-susie”
Baseball didn’t have a draft before ’65 and they survived pretty well. Players may like a few extra dollars in bonus money, but, they aren’t all signing with 1 team. They’ll go where they can play. The draft was instituted to stop teams like the Yankees and Dodgers. It only worked for a short time. CBS killed the late 60s Yankees more than the draft did.
Kate — It irks me because it doesn’t mean anything….
Like when some dimwit uses the phrase “sooner rather than later”
What the hell does that mean? When does sooner end and later begin?
Well, sooner or later, you’ll have to realize that somebody will throw the baby out with the bathwater. I dislike those that are bound and determined to live life cliche free.
“Baseball didn’t have a draft before ’65 and they survived pretty well. ”
Its not 1965 anymore though and there are twice as many teams. With todays scouting…..there wouldnt be enough diamonds in the rough out there for most teams to compete. The big market teams would eat up all the Strasburgs and Arods and Bryce Harpers and leave the small market clubs with the scraps. The reasons they created a draft 50 years ago still apply…..but they’ve been amplified.
I don’t hate all cliche’s….. just the ones that I hate
For example I’m cool with
“a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush”
“six in one hand, half dozen in the other”
and so on… I am not a cliche’ bigot
GB-
Throwing the baby out with the bathwater means doing something rash without thinking it through, basically.
Sooner rather than later bothers you, too? LOL. Wow. It just means you’d rather someone not wait too long to do something.
I refuse to believe anyone has ever thrown the baby out with the bathwater. And it’s not going to happen sooner OR later
Just my two cents worth!
a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush”
The only ones that say that are the ones that are putting their bird in the wrong bush.
Sorry, I don’t want to start a cliche debate, but 86, if you use one of those infant bathtubs, you could throw the baby out w/ the bathwater.
I take it to mean don’t throw away the good w/ the bad.
Sorry again, we really need some real news
Anyway, I guess we all have our pet peeves, 86w183.
I’ve given up on the ones that crop up here! LOL
I was just thinking last night, you know what the LoHud Yankee blog needs…..more smug. More cowbell was my second choice but smug eeked out the victory.
blake October 27th, 2011 at 9:57 am
“Baseball didn’t have a draft before ’65 and they survived pretty well. ”
Its not 1965 anymore though and there are twice as many teams. With todays scouting…..there wouldnt be enough diamonds in the rough out there for most teams to compete. The big market teams would eat up all the Strasburgs and Arods and Bryce Harpers and leave the small market clubs with the scraps. The reasons they created a draft 50 years ago still apply…..but they’ve been amplified.
————————————————————————————————————————-
There’s also twice as many people in the US and in baseball playing countries.
and I just read your 9:59 post and literally LOL
If someone is going to do something sooner rather than later it doesn’t tell me anything
Sooner than a week rather than later than a decade?
Sooner than an hour rather than later than a year?
I like specificity when I can get it
Definitely MORE COWBELL
upstate kate -
That’s a better description of baby/bathwater cliche’.
personally I prefer snark over smug
86w183 -
I too just read the 9:59 post and THAT was FUNNY!!!
“There’s also twice as many people in the US and in baseball playing countries.”
I doubt the increase in overall population correlates with an equal increase in big league talent. It would be great for the Yankees…….I think it would be really bad for the sport though.
Ah, yes. The Great White Snark will hunt in the LoHud waters again.
I prefer Bret’s trade proposals to smug or snark!
Shouldn’t athletes have the same rights as anybody else and seek employment where ever they want?
About Girardi and managing in the postseason.
I know we hit on this yesterday and there’s certainly room for divergence of opinion – and frankly, I (for once) don’t claim to have a bead on this. But I do find it unsettling, no matter which reality is the correct one.
1. Girardi managed all of his games correctly/the way he had to, dealing with the team he has. (Let’s all assume that managers, being human, can and do make mistakes, but in this hypothetical, let’s go with the overall job he did.)
Things that were questioned on this forum were his use of Ayala in two situations where some posters felt he should have gone to more tried and true relievers. Ayala certainly had come through during the season and Girardi had to be thinking down the road to the next games and the specific starters, their potential to give long innings, and the need to hold onto his heavy hitter reliever. Also questioned was his not using pinch hitters at various times. This could play into a number of things, including trusting his veterans to come through and also looking at match-ups.
2. Girardi needed to pull the trigger at various times and failed to do so where he should have, and there are no excuses that are legitimate.
************
I know it’s a simplistic outline and that you could also go with some kind of hybrid of the two.
I tend to stay away from Monday morning quaterbacking, pretty much because outcomes are never assured and it’s far too easy to say something should have been done differently just because the desired result didn’t come about.
One thing I am convinced of is that Girardi does think out what he’s doing and doesn’t fly by the seat of his pants. I guess the murky area is whether his thinking is the correct thinking.
The only thing I readily give Torre credit for is his saying that the difference between a manager looking like a genius and an idiot is the outcome of the play.
Ah, but GB7, who would ever choose to play for, say, the Mets? LOL
YankeesWFAN Boras asking to redo Cano’s contract is not a surprise. Yanks refusing is not either. Don’t feel bad for Cano-still gets $29 mil next 2 yrs
YankeesWFAN Boras smart to ask. He makes nothing from Cano until next contract. Bobby Barad still gets commission on current deal. Yanks still say no.
trisha – true pinstriped blue October 27th, 2011 at 9:39 am
Yankees starting rotation for 2012, in no particular order:
CC
AJ
Hughesie
Novasie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I can’t imagine what gives you faith in Burnett. He’s done nothing to deserve it unless you get enjoyment out of watching his predictable implosions and dimiinishing velocity along with his league leading wild pitches because of his lack of repeating his mechanics.
Freddy Garcia is more truthworthy and Noesi is working toward a rotation slot as are other arms on the way.
“Novasie” is a No. 2 that Burnett only wishes he could be.
Wash and TLR have both been geniuses and idiots depending on the game
“Shouldn’t athletes have the same rights as anybody else and seek employment where ever they want?”
Well that’s a different topic all together……all sports are this way. If you want a competitive product then you have to have rules. They are paid handsomely to work in one of 30 cities for 6 years and then they can choose where they want to play after that. They seek employment playing baseball……and just like many other jobs they have to pay their dues to get to do it where they want…..the difference is that this is a job where minimum wage is over 400,000 bucks a year.
Smugness I find annoying.
Snark makes me want to slap the person across the face.
108 – I know defense of AJ is a tough sell here, but I believe he has great stuff and I’ve seen him harnass it, and until it appears he has no ability to come through, I’ll be in his corner.
That said, my feeling about AJ remaining in the rotation comes strictly from what I believe the Yankees will do.
When I prognosticate, it’s totally based on what I believe the organization is going to do in a given situation. I’m always guessing what their moves will be. I don’t really have any dogs in the hunt. If they were to trade away AJ, then I would believe it was the right move because I have faith in their knowledge surrounding situations. I just don’t think they’re going to do it.
Andrew Friedman will not be leaving the TB Rays and go to the L.A. Angels as their GM. This opens the door for Omar Minaya. He and Artie Moreno deserve each other.
what happened???
to much smug or too much snark???!!!
OK, who broke the Lohud?
I like AJ and I wish he would pitch better so I didn’t feel this way…..but me liking him doesn’t mean I have to like watching him pitch.
The occasional flash of brilliance has been there his entire career…..its nothing new and therefore is really nothing to get excited about. He’s a 5 era pitcher with diminishing stuff and has a real chance of actually getting worse not better…….if you can move him then hoist have to move him.
I think it was the snark about smugness that broke lohud. Lohud doesn’t like snark either!
blake, I don’t think you’re in the minority concerning AJ.
Trisha,
Greetings from the Great White Snark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCfWHqrYUqo
YankeesPR 3 Yankees on the @sportingnews 2011 AL All-Star Team – @RobinsonCano, @cgrand14 and @MarianoRivera; http://tinyurl.com/3g57b6f #SNAllStars
Trisha,
I love your outlook as always…..and there is nothing wrong with it.
GB –
When the snarkers appear I wish that they would be consumed a la that link!
Blake
your autocorrect makes for some interesting comments
trisha – true pinstriped blue October 27th, 2011 at 10:20 am
108 – I know defense of AJ is a tough sell here, but I believe he has great stuff and I’ve seen him harnass it, and until it appears he has no ability to come through, I’ll be in his corner.
That said, my feeling about AJ remaining in the rotation comes strictly from what I believe the Yankees will do.
When I prognosticate, it’s totally based on what I believe the organization is going to do in a given situation. I’m always guessing what their moves will be. I don’t really have any dogs in the hunt. If they were to trade away AJ, then I would believe it was the right move because I have faith in their knowledge surrounding situations. I just don’t think they’re going to do it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As always, I admire your Yankee enthusiasm but short of one good WS outing in 2009, the scattered success Burnett has had in a less than .500 Yankee record for 3 seasons doesn’t justify his $82.5M contract.
He’s trending downward and I’ll bet that if a team were willing to take half of his remaining salary, Hal Steinbrenner would OK doing it in a New York minute. It’s not like the Yankees don’t have other options with young arms ready to be on the scene in 2013, if not sooner.
Kate,
I leave it on to amuse you all
blake, thanks!
There comes a point where eating money is actually saving money….
108, I still believe the Yankees are committed to him in more ways than financial and have faith that he’s still capable of pulling a rabbit out of his baseball cap – or something. That is my belief.
“There comes a point where eating money is actually saving money….”
Absolutely agree. And with that in mind my belief is that the Yankees are still in AJ’s corner and therefore won’t choose to eat the money they could easily eat.
“There comes a point where eating money is actually saving money….”
a decision only the person whose money it is should make.
Any body else still having trouble with the lohud?
Ken_RosenthalKen Rosenthal
Source: Chances of #Yankees reworking Cano’s “highly, highly unlikely.” New York Post reports today that Boras seeks restructuring. #MLB
Gossip Break
My day just got a whole lot better
http://globalgrind.com/style/h.....all-photos
The perfect way to end the morning…listening to Joan Baez singing “Farewell, Angelina” and “Lilly, Rosemary and The Jack Of Hearts
tomingeorgia October 27th, 2011 at 11:05 am
Any body else still having trouble with the lohud?
————————————————————————————————————————-
Not exactly with LoHud. Trouble with someone from Maine, though.
erin
prefer clean shaved Robbie to the Wooly Willy thing he has happening in that picture.
Pat-me too. I’ve never been crazy about his now annual off season Wooly Willy look. But ’tis the season for Yankee beards, so I’m used to it by now.
“a decision only the person whose money it is should make.”
Can’t argue
boy, what a morning!
snarks, sharks, and scott boras.
now wooly willys……
hope the weather is better in st.lou than here in ny.
Joe
don’t forget the cliche debate
Joe in LI,
Rain in St. Louis should stop by noon and no rain until after the weekend. temps in the mid-40s
Life isn’t worth living without clicjes and bad puns.
trisha – true pinstriped blue October 27th, 2011 at 10:59 am
108, I still believe the Yankees are committed to him in more ways than financial and have faith that he’s still capable of pulling a rabbit out of his baseball cap – or something. That is my belief.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Good luck with that rabbit (or something).
Haven’t heard anything that Larry Rothschild will be going to Burnett’s barn in Maryland in yet another attempt at fixing his inconsistent mechanics.
Maybe the Tampa air in February will be a difference maker.
The idea of never negotiating extensions before a contract ends made a lot more sense when the Yankees were willing to blow away all other offers……with the more fiscally responsible front office in place now it looks like they would try to take advantage of money saving opportunities.
Now Boras may ask for some ridiculous extension….and in that case it makes more sense to wait……but there are times when negotiating 2 years early coukd save a ton of money later……Cano could be one of those guys. I think they should bend that rule in certain cases and at least talk about it.
Or ***cliches***
Boras’ only motivation is to collect some commission on his new Client, otherwise he has a new client that’s not significantly paying him for 2 years.
New Post: The risk and reward of Robinson Cano
sounds like great weather for baseball.
can’t wait to see the latest in la russa/pujols in-game strategy.
“Boras’ only motivation is to collect some commission on his new Client, otherwise he has a new client that’s not significantly paying him for 2 years.”
Of course….but from the Yankees end what does that matter?
It doesn’t, they should be ignoring Boras as usual :p
I remember a lot of people calling Cashman an idiot and Cano a lazy bum that should have been traded in 2008 when Cashman signed Cano to a 4+2 extention and he had his worst season.