Last night could have been different
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 28, 2011 
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Mighty Mo!
Any guesses what the new Sabathia offer is?
This was the original contract offer:
$9M signing bonus (paid in 3 installments: 12/31/08, 3/1/09, 7/31/09
09:$14M, 10-15:$23M annually
salaries to be paid semimonthly over all 12 months of year, rather than semimonthly during season
Sabathia may opt of of deal after 2011 season
no-trade protection
perks: suite on road trips
5 years guaranteed@25M/year with 2 performance/vesting years@ max of 25M/year?
6 years guaranteed?
Thoughts?
YT-
No idea but I don’t expect CC to have to exercise it.
IMO deal gets done beforehand.
Washington lost that game for them last night, with both the moves he made, and didn’t make.
—————————–
Big Al-
What blunders did Washington make. Didn’t see the entire game? Was he outmanaged by LaRussa in a NL park last night?
MTU -
Any thoughts about CC saying last winter, at a Knick game, he would not opt out?
Back in a bit.
Al-
I didn’t believe it then and I do not believe it now.
As a die hard Yankee fan, I’m not ashamed to say that last night’s World Series game was played by both teams full of heart with a will to win, instead of fat paychecks and big egos! Reminds me of the yanks when they used to win in the 90′s. Last night was one of the best games ever played hands down.
oh so very appropriate for this morning.
we will not see his kind again. one of the reasons i enjoy going to ys so much is to have a chance to see the greatest of all time. years from now, talking to my grandchildren, i will sound like the oldtimers used to sound when they spoke of ruth, gehrig, dimaggio, and mantle.
I think Ron Washington should have brought in CJ Wilson to face Berkman and make Berkman bat right handed after intentionally walking Albert Pujols. Berkman hitting righthanded is like Posada hitting righthanded.
Any guesses what the new Sabathia offer is?
=========================
2 year/$48M-$50M extension of the existing contract.
MTU-
Not only am I a bad typist, but a slow one too!
Bad and Slow!
I think CC will sign before the opt out, which could be Monday, correct? However, don’t the Yankees still have a negotiating window before other teams can contact him, IF he does, you know, do it???
There is only one Mo.
***
I agree with MTU that the teams seem evenly matched, but it is making for good entertainment, not good baseball. But, this is what the WS has become. We either accept that, or one the Yankees are eliminated, say “Goodnight Gracie.”
It’s a new paradigm.
** once **
YT -
He pulled his closed for the 10th inning, when he would have faced the bottom of the order, and he left Cruz in RF, and both moves caused them to allow the Cards to once more tie the game. Had you seen the game, you could tell he was confussed as to what moves to make. He then pulls his best pitcher left for a PH, with 2 outs, another bad move. Too much nose candy for Wash – In Texas they should call him Washed Up.
Later, got to go for a bit.
Last night was one of the best games ever played hands down.
======================
Certainly one of the most dramatic games ever played, but it was played rather poorly.
YT-
I believe the Yankees have an exlusive 5 day window as well.
I expect something to get done. I do not see CC hitting the open market.
When Lance first came to the Yankees he was 1) not hitting well due to an injury that changed his mechanic at the plate 2) was nervous as hell
When he was put on the DL, they worked on his swing from the left side & he came back and started hitting. He still didn’t have his right handed swing as they didn’t have the time to really work on that side.
In the playoffs, he was one of the few who hit. He was platooned/DH so he didn’t play every game. Until Teix pulled a hammy against the rangers.
But Lance definitely showed he could hit. Afterwards, the excitement of getting to the post changed him from a guy about to retire to a man looking to resurrect his career. But he didn’t want to be a DH. He wanted to play everyday.
Damn, didn’t know he was willing to play RF & get into shape. He is clutch & is definitely better than Swisher.
But no doubt that even if we knew he was willing to play RF, it wouldn’t have worked out because the yankees would probably want him to be the 4th OF.
Like I said yesterday, if Lance was on the yankees, he’d be warming the bench while swisher strikes out.
Dramatic is a good word to describe that game.
Lock Down -
If Berkman was on the Yankees, and platooning in RF for the entire season, I don’t think he sits on the bench.
Trader – I did stay up for the entire game, indeed!
Has anybody else noticed the “down to their last strike” theme that seemed to take over some very important games this season?
And speaking of the beantown Titanic, nobody can ever accuse the beantown teams of not supporting each other!
“Canadiens 2, Bruins 1: Stanley Cup champs now dead last in the East”
Nothing more than a fluke, just like their beer-swilling, chicken eating, out-of-shape cousins.
Snowstorm watch for tomorrow night. The squirrels are really fat. I’m thinking cold (and hopefully snowy) winter.
************
This has been a pretty cool World Series to watch. I admit to staying with it only to root against the Rangers, but I’m glad I did. Last night was AMAZING.
In the bottom of the 9th I said it would be great for the Cards to come up with a 2001 YS WS moment and for Feliz to pull a BH Kim. Sure as shootin’!
“Last night was one of the best games ever played hands down.”
Too unconventional for me to call it the best or greatest.
It was like the Pedroia of WS games. Hard fought and dramatic with good results but not pretty.
Buster_ESPN Buster Olney by Ledger_Yankees
It’s going to sound like morning-after hyperbole, but if the World Series is the standard, that’s the greatest game in baseball history.
****************
Buster being a tad dramatic, or was it really that good?
I would lime to see him get the same deal as Cliff Lee where the 6th year vests based on innings pitched (200 in the 5th or 400 in the 4th & 5th combined)
I think that’s fair for both sides.
If he doesn’t accept that he’s the one that’s going to look bad. And it’s going to send a message to the rest of the GM’s that the opening bid needs to be in the 6yr/$150MM range.
A tad dramatic, Erin.
Trisha-
Good morning. I saw the comeback in the bottom of the 9th, walked out of the room for a few minutes and came back to see the score was 9-7 Rangers on a Hamilton, guided from above[per him] homer. Turned TV off and went to bed!
I’ll have to watch the replay of the 10th and 11th innings!
Erin – No, it was an exciting high scoring game… but in terms of baseball it was awful to watch. That one of these 2 teams will win the world series tonight is… frankly… embarrassing for the rest of the league that actually have pitching staffs.
i guess buster wasn’t around for the carlton fisk game in 1975. or for the jack morris-john smoltz game. or read his history, and learn of game 7 in 1926, when grover cleveland alexander came out of the bullpen, after pitching a cg win the day before, to strike out lazzeri with the bases loaded. or……..
Jeers-
I see nothing wrong with part of CC’s package being incentive, or vesting based.
I doubt the Yankees would do it that way though.
Big Al – As soon as Wash pulled Feldman I said to my girl “this is how the Rangers lose the World Series”. I expect Carpenter to shut them down tonight.
Don’t worry, Joe in LI. Next year there will be a new best game ever. And best player ever. And best team ever…
MLB_PR David Freese is 1st in #WorldSeries history to have game-tying hit in bottom of 9th & then win game with another hit in extras
Yanks will make offer before opt out can happen officially. CC’s way of rejecting the offer and saying “Give me more” will be to opt out. Then the Yankees have a few days to up the offer before he enters free agency officially.
I suspect, they will… but then if after sweetening the pot, CC still elects free agency, the Yankees might then bow out or not. It would be an ugly scenario. And CC might lose some fan following in the Big Apple if it goes that way.
My feeling is that once you get over 100 million dollars, well… it’s fantasyland… how much more can you want. But I’m one of the 99%.
I have a hard time calling a game w/ so much sloppy play (5 errors???) the greatest game ever.
Erin October 28th, 2011 at 9:25 am
Buster_ESPN Buster Olney by Ledger_Yankees
It’s going to sound like morning-after hyperbole, but if the World Series is the standard, that’s the greatest game in baseball history.
****************
Buster being a tad dramatic, or was it really that good?
———————————————————————————–
The best this and the best that is thrown around to easily today.
It was more that it had lots of drama.
Errors and bad decisions made by managers to make it the best ever.
BryanHochBryan Hoch
Was just looking up Hideo Nomo’s career stats for some reason. Baseball Reference says the most similar comparison is A.J. Burnett. Hmm.
As soon as Wash pulled Feldman
****************************
From across the hall!!
Melodrama much Buster ?
“Buster being a tad dramatic, or was it really that good”
For a totally mismanaged game, it was an amazing watch.
Just think, those are the two clowns who will manage next year’s ASG. I guess whichever one makes the fewest mistakes will emerge victorious.
And yes, as someone pointed out earlier, HFA definitely means something in the WS!!!
Trisha-
That someone was me.
I would lime to see him get the same deal as Cliff Lee where the 6th year vests based on innings pitched (200 in the 5th or 400 in the 4th & 5th combined)
I think that’s fair for both sides.
If he doesn’t accept that he’s the one that’s going to look bad. And it’s going to send a message to the rest of the GM’s that the opening bid needs to be in the 6yr/$150MM range.
————————————-
Bronx Jeers-
I agree. I really don’t see any teams on the west coast going for a 7 year 175M contract. The Angels need offense more than another starter. Same with the Giants.
The interested teams that might make a competitive offer might be the Tigers, who have money coming off the books and could use a lefty in the rotation. The Nationals who just have money, but from what I’ve read might be going all out for Fielder. Perhaps the Rangers, who will not resign CJ Wilson, if the panned TV shots of the disgusted look on Nolan Ryans face after another Wilson walk were noticed!! The Rangers could move Ogando and Feliz into the rotation and go after one of the many closers on the market. Then there’s Yu Darvish!!
Buster being a tad dramatic, or was it really that good?
=========================
In terms of flare for the dramatic, I’d have it around the Top 5. Merits mention with Game 6′s in ’75, ’86, and ’91 as well as ’01 Games 5 & 7, and Game 7 in ’91, IMO.
JonLaneNYC RT @mlbtraderumors Yankees Likely To Retain Swisher, Pass On Beltran bit.ly/uaOZiI #mlb
I saw an article the other day that the Dodgers are trying to extend Kemp.
Hope they fail.
Erin-
Don’t discount Beltran. “If necessary they could flip Swisher for pitching after signing Beltran.”
Personally Beltran, a Boras client, will get two much money and years, and I’d rather have one more year of Swisher coming off the books with a Yankee play for Matt Kemp if he get’s to the FA market.
MTU
Maybe this is what you read about Kemp:
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [October 27, 2011 at 12:31pm CST]
If the Dodgers attempt to lock Matt Kemp up to an extension this offseason, they shouldn’t expect much of a hometown discount. Kemp’s agent, Dave Stewart, told Dylan Hernandez of the LA Times that the center fielder cares about more than winning and team chemistry.
“It’s also important for him to be seen by his peers as one of the best,” Stewart said. “This isn’t Matt saying this, this is me saying this … but, unfortunately, the way these things are seen is often based on how you’re paid.”
CC is a family guy, in a big way. No pun intended.
Can’t blame him for wanting money, but I really think he stays, esp considering all the hassle of moving your family
YT- oh, I know. I’m not getting too caught up in the trade rumors yet-it’s way too early.
I don’t think the Rangers want to tie that much money up in one guy.
I agree with Yankees Trader — Texas likely to return Ogando to being a starter and possibly Feliz too and go after one of the many closers available. They could get Papelbon or KRod for half what CC would cost.
Maybe I’m nuts but I don’t see a huge market for CC at dollars over and above $ 100 M.
Would love to see him get a 7-year, $ 140 M deal. Lower $$$ per year to give Yanks more $$ to add to roster, but $ 48 M more in guaranteed money. It’s a win/win. In essence it’s $ 16 M a year at ages 36, 37 & 38 which seems fair.
But I expect it to be 6 years for $ 144 M
Joe-I agree. And by all accounts, his family loves it in NY.
More comments from his agent, Dave Stewart, earlier this month on Matt Kemp:
“Matt is the guy that I work for, it would be my advice to him to just play and let’s not do any negotiations during the course of the year,” Stewart said in a telephone interview Thursday afternoon. “I’ve been a player and I’ve been in that position before and it’s a distraction. For me, especially in next year’s season, the most important thing is just have Matt concentrate on having another great year. To go out and play. This stuff would be a distraction for him and for the ballclub.”
Stewart declined to describe the parameters of the type of extension Kemp is looking for, other than to say, “We’re hoping to do a nice deal.”
Putting it all together, for Matt Kemp it’s all about-SHOW ME THE MONEY!!
Erin says:
October 28, 2011 at 9:35 am
As soon as Wash pulled Feldman
****************************
From across the hall!!
——————————-
That was on 2 nights ago here.
Vargas!
MTU,
I hope that’s the way it gets done. To me it’s crazy that these big contracts now have have e tea years where teams know that they’ll be vastly overpaying in the last couple of seasons.
Vesting options based on inning pitched are very fair.
Lee & Doc’s deals are great. To me, there’s your precedent. I’m not in favor of going 6 years guaranteed for CC but I know they might need to.
7 years is a dealbreaker IMO.
Yankee Trader October 28th, 2011 at 9:01 am
Any guesses what the new Sabathia offer is?
This was the original contract offer:
$9M signing bonus (paid in 3 installments: 12/31/08, 3/1/09, 7/31/09
09:$14M, 10-15:$23M annually
salaries to be paid semimonthly over all 12 months of year, rather than semimonthly during season
Sabathia may opt of of deal after 2011 season
no-trade protection
perks: suite on road trips
5 years guaranteed@25M/year with 2 performance/vesting years@ max of 25M/year?
6 years guaranteed?
Thoughts?
—
My guess is that the Yanks will cave at around 6 x 24, probably before he can opt out.
I would play hardball for 5 years and if he rejects it see what kind of offers he gets in free agency. I think they would still get him at 6 x 24 because I don’t think anyone else would pay that much.
ID -
I said the very same thing to my wife, it seems neither team wanted it last night, they both tried giving the game away.
I heard of “Where’s the Beef”, but last night one could scream out, Where’s the pitching, and what defense.
Maybe Cashman shows up at the Sabathia’s door on Halloween to get his signature on a contract. Any idea what he’ll be wearing?
Have to go. I’ll check back later. Two wishes today-one big[no pun intended]-have CC wrapped up this weekend, and one small wish-Go Cardinals!!
Have a great day everyone.
Maybe Cashman shows up at the Sabathia’s door on Halloween to get his signature on a contract. Any idea what he’ll be wearing?
—————-
Ed McMahon wearing a Santa suit.
Yankee Trader October 28th, 2011 at 10:06 am
Maybe Cashman shows up at the Sabathia?s door on Halloween to get his signature on a contract. Any idea what he?ll be wearing?
**********************
Santa Claus
“Trisha-
That someone was me.
Should have known!!!
Oh, I like Bronx Jeers’ answer better.
Joelsherman1 Is it me or does it feel like #Yankees and #Phillies were eliminated in a different yr, not these playoffs
October 28, 2011 at 10:13 am
Oh, I like Bronx Jeers’ answer better.
——————————————
As long as we’re on the same page then I know I haven’t lost my marbles.
Hopefully it’s not a Hank Steinbrenner costume.
Jeers-
YT-
Yes. that’s the article. thanks for posting it.
Jeers-
Seems fair to me.
Trisha-
Hope you are well. Staying warm I hope.
take my advice – read tom verduccci’s story in si.com, about last night’s game.
PhilHughes65 Golfing for the first time today in like 3 years….this could be bad
one more thing before i get going – at the risk of getting trisha started, again, about bud –
verducci brings up a real good point about wc and hfa. the wc cardinals don’t have hfa in the first two rounds, but do in the most important round. where’s the logic?
Joe-
“where’s the logic?”
Your question has a built in oxymoron.
YESNetwork Follow Joba Chamberlain and his son on a visit to the U. of Nebraska (VIDEO): http://bit.ly/ubnOeN
Good read, Joe from Long Island. Thanks for the heads-up.
Yup, an exhibition game decided which team would have HFA. Maybe if Bud’s team loses (I’m assuming he’s a Rangers guys based on last season’s “save”), he’ll revisit the All-Star Game factor.
need to send feelers out for kemp b/c getting him would be a coup.
but i still think the more prudent decision would be to attempt another granderson type deal – but it will mean trading some of our farm sytem – which i’m fine with if it’s the right guy.
my #1 target is mccutchen in pittsburgh…
imho, wildcard teams, regardless of their record, should be heavily penalized in the playoffs.
first round is 5 games right now…which really doesn’t give the home team any sort of advantage in a short series since both team’s #1 starters will pitch twice.
one possibility:
wildcard team gets only 1 home game and then 4 on the road.
wildcard team has to win 3 games with the division winner needs to win only 2.
or expand the first round to 7 games (and even then, it’s not enough)…
I think a better label might the most exciting game in history…..or in the World series……the level of play was trash…..much too bad to be considered the greatest game. Jack Morris vs Smoltz anybody
there’s no way to judge true home field in the world series since neither team plays the same league. so either keep it as alternating, or make it truly random by flipping a coin.
i have no problems having the ASG decide it b/c nothing else will be any more fair…
It was great drama, great theater, great excitement, but far from great baseball.
The game tying triple was a fairly easy ball that was badly misplayed by an OF who was terribly out of position (should have been much deeper).
I have always been a HUGE critic of the absurdity of letting the All-Star Game determine HFA and if the Cardinals win tonight there will be an effort to change it.
The only fair method is alternating years because the “best record” determination is not based on the teams playing comparable schedules. But going with best record is better than this… jeez, using the HR derby winner would be better.
I’m still flabbergasted by watching players last night hit in the clutch. Or watching players last night take advantage of a nervous pitcher on the ropes.
All last night reinforced for me was that we need to move on from Swisher and I wish we could move on from Tex who I am not convinced will somehow learn to how to hit RHP all of a sudden. Those 2 along with Arod’s futility this post season made me think that hitting a baseball in the post season was completely impossible. Having a couple of zeroes in the middle of the order like them is why we’re not watching a parade this weekend.
I really think the Yankees need to change the way they pick players in the future and get away from these pull happy mashers and find some guys who know how to square up a ball with their bat.
It’s not about fair in this case.
In every other instance, HFA goes to the team with the best record between the two teams. Why should the WS be any different?
Or which team had the best record in interleague play maybe – though that one just came to me, and I’m not invested in that as an option.
But I do think it’s reasonable to look at the team’s record without regard to league. You could take out interleague play, and take the record of how each team played within their own league.
Alternating years is okay too, I guess. But you’d still run the “risk” of a team like the Cardinals (6 games out of first, not a great record) have HFA.
The problem with putting all WC teams in one basket is that sometimes a WC team has a better record that a division winner.
I often wonder what the point is on some of these posts. I still have bad memories about losing to the Diamond Backs and the 2004 loss to the Sox in the last innings. I guess “could” is the proper word, but on any given night who knows. The Cards got the bat on the ball off Feliz last night, Mo threw the ball into center field against the D Backs. Just seems like a dumb thing to bring up.
Villa Nova-Ya October 28th, 2011 at 10:49 am
Yup, an exhibition game decided which team would have HFA. Maybe if Bud’s team loses (I’m assuming he’s a Rangers guys based on last season’s “save”), he’ll revisit the All-Star Game factor.
____________________________________________________________________________
Villa doubt it. The all star game was an exihition game which the fans and sponsors spent alot of money on and seldom got their value out of it. Throwing in the HFA was a way to make it mean and bit more and upgrading the player performance, excitement and fan satisfaction surronding the game. I think it’s a better product now than it was.
G. Love October 28th, 2011 at 11:12 am
I’m still flabbergasted by watching players last night hit in the clutch.
==========================================
A guy like Berkman would have helped this year.
Ken_RosenthalKen Rosenthal
Sources: DiPoto to be named #Angels GM. #MLB
YT,
6 years guaranteed at that rate is $150M. Since there’s no way he’s going to go with 5 years guaranteed + a vesting option, the 6 years is best. If it was me, I’d be happy adding on $25M+$2M raise per annum. But it’s not me.
I hope that CC is not seeking to beat what is I presume to be his own record for biggest contract for a pitcher.
Wait, that would be adding on $50M+a $2M raise in each of the original 4 years.
I was more flabbergasted by the pitching and defense.
Olney has to be kidding. It was a great game, like a rollercoaster. But greatest ever? Olney used to be so…smart…and objective.
I’m most amazed that Washington went with Oliver when he had Feldman at his disposal.
This world series has been really good entertainment wise, but hardly best game ever territory because most of the games have been sloppily played messes full of player and manager errors.
Its one thing if they all made the right moves and played crisply and the game got tied and untied like that, but TLR is showcasing worst in history bullpen management
A great game would have been each team scoring in each half-inning. A great game would have been tight pitching with awesome defense to rip the hearts out of each fanbase. A great game would have been a clincher for the winning team.
At least 5 errors and some of the managing did not make for the greatest game ever.
Now had it continued without a bench for the Cards and a dwindling one for the Rangers, then maybe….
good article but where was feliz in the 10th?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
How many more days until Spring Training 2012
Got it! Feel free to tweet it, Chad.
It was the Greatest Trainwreck Game ever.
YESNetwork The Texas Rangers have won the World Series … at least that’s what one FOX affiliate claims (PHOTO): http://bit.ly/u1bIhV
While their were misplays, that was as exciting a non-Yankee game I have ever seen. Say what you will about these teams, but they do get clutch hits and that’s why they are still playing.
Didn’t Mo lose 2 postseason games (Alomar HR in ’97 and Arizona in 2001)?
I am sure Winfield catches that ball in the 9th — does Paul O’Neill? O’Neill would certainly have turned, found the wall, and then gone for the ball rather than backpedaling like Cruz. On the other hand, he has to backhand the catch because he’s lefty.
Would a better receiver have calmed Feliz down after he gave up the hit to Pujolz? Feliz looked horrible walking Berkman, and that was what cost him the game.
My bad on ’97 — Alomar’s HR only tied the game. Just checked it on retrosheet.
Erin October 28th, 2011 at 11:52 am
YESNetwork The Texas Rangers have won the World Series … at least that’s what one FOX affiliate claims (PHOTO): http://bit.ly/u1bIhV
***********************************************************************
Hilarious! Thanks for sharing!
New Post- Report: DiPoto to be named Angels GM