A star is born
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 08, 2011 
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Be honest, how many of you knew the name Yeonis Cespedes three days ago? Even if you vaguely remembered him from the World Baseball Classic, how many of you had strong feelings about him one way or the other? How many of you knew his name of the top of your head?
How many of you desperately want the Yankees to sign him now?
Every now and then, something like this happens. A player who hardly anyone knows anything about grabs the baseball world’s attention and becomes a sensation. Not sure I’ve ever seen it happen this quickly, but you really can’t predict baseball, and right now Cespedes is the unpredictable star of the offseason.
He and Yu Darvish rule the world. And most of us have only seen a few highlight clips and exhibition innings of them actually playing the game.
Of course the Yankees have seen Cespedes. The Yankees have always been heavily involved in the international market, and I can’t imagine they needed a Baseball Prospectus story — which was terrific, by the way — to find out about this guy. Is he as good as advertised? I have no idea. I’m one of those people who wouldn’t have recognized his name on Saturday morning. But I get it. I get the excitement.
The world of prospects is all about high hopes and best-case scenarios. It’s about seeing a young player and thinking about what he might become, and Yeonis Cespedes might become a great major league player — he’s certainly hyped that way — so of course Yankees fans should want the Yankees to sign him. He’s the name of the moment, and he’s out there, and one guess is as good as the next about what he’s really worth.
Will he live up to this instant hype? Maybe. Maybe not. For now, that uncertainty is enough to grab our attention.
Yeonis Cespedes
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His name sounds like an exotic plant or something.
or some sort of insect
erin-
Or some kind of rare disease.
Sounds really talented…..but I think caution should be taken to the idea that he would just come over and be an instant upgrade over nick swisher or even brett gardner. Keith law yesterday compared the league he has played in in Cuba to low A in the states……and he’s 26 years old. So while he might really be the real deal and be a future star in MLB…..we are talking about a guy closer to 30 than 20 that has been dominating a league on par with the Sally league……..just sayin
Blake-
Pretty clear that “Yeonis” is looking for a big “bonus”.
30 Mill ? Yikes.
“PSU’s SID has apparently indicated that Paterno will respond only to questions related to this weekend’s game with Nebraska. If I’m a journalist, I walk out of that PC if he refuses to address/respond to questions re: the Sandusky issue.”
—————-
…for real? The SID is the sports director right (not totally sure)? That info’s coming straight from him?
Why would anyone be concerned about spending $30 mil for a hitter, but, paying $100 mil for a pitcher is OK?
Perhaps Paterno and the school has been ordered not to respond since there is an on-going investigation.
SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
Scouts are raving about cespedes. “Very athletic.” And yes, some yankees people watched him work out monday
Shame: jimbaumbach I’ll be at Joe Paterno’s press conference, where school officials say he’ll only talk about Saturday’s game. We’ll see how well that goes.
Good morning.
Looking for 30.25M over 6 years. Why not sign him and then trade him to the Reds for Cuban lefty Aroldis Chapman, who I wished the Yankees had pursued.
Feinsand article on Cespedes:
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....e-1.974103
MTU- the rare disease you’re probably referring to is the Dread Mahaccas!
Its funny that all sites spell his name differently. Wikipedia has yoennis, Yankees have Yoenis, NBC and lohud got yeonnis. Heck ebay baseball cards have him yennis lol. What gives
blake November 8th, 2011 at 9:14 am
Sounds really talented…..but I think caution should be taken to the idea that he would just come over and be an instant upgrade over nick swisher or even brett gardner. Keith law yesterday compared the league he has played in in Cuba to low A in the states……and he’s 26 years old. So while he might really be the real deal and be a future star in MLB…..we are talking about a guy closer to 30 than 20 that has been dominating a league on par with the Sally league……..just sayin
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You’re taking the word of somebody who thinks the AL ROY is Dustin Ackley?
MTU,
Maybe I’m misinterpreting your latests comment, but he’s not lloking for a 30 mil bonus. His agent said he wants a contract equal to what Chapman got. Which is 30 mil over 5 or 6 years.
# Erin November 8th, 2011 at 9:32 am
Shame: jimbaumbach I’ll be at Joe Paterno’s press conference, where school officials say he’ll only talk about Saturday’s game. We’ll see how well that goes.
——————————
That’s not going to work
GB-
All these guys seem overpriced.
Darvish and now the Cuban.
Hey. It ain’t my money.
While Cespedes seems to have the tools for big-league success, the biggest question mark is the same as it is for every international player.
“The one thing that a lot of people don’t have is high-level game experience,” the scout said. “How will all of these tools play at the best level of baseball? That’s what each club is going to wrestle with.
“It’s the same with (Japanese league all-star) Yu Darvish,” the scout added. “What happens when he’s asked to pitch by a big-league schedule to big-league lineups? There are no soft spots in lineups here, especially in the American League.”
What a wimp Paterno is.
“Why would anyone be concerned about spending $30 mil for a hitter, but, paying $100 mil for a pitcher is OK?”
Id have concerns about both……however Darvish is playing in and has dominates a league that by most accounts is better than AAA level competition ……so I think there is more knowledge there. If they think Cespedes is the real deal and think 30 million might be a bargain for him then im all for signing him…..my only point is that I wouldn’t count on him being better than Nick Swisher immediately ……id sign him and stash him at AAA at first and see how it played out.
CC-
Yeah. I was referring to the total amount.
I’m sure glad this is not my money and I do not have to make these types of decisions.
A lot of money has been wasted over the years.
“You’re taking the word of somebody who thinks the AL ROY is Dustin Ackley?”
I think Ackely is a reasonable choice and while I disagree with Law on a lot of things…..I would guess his take on the cuban league is probably accurate.
“Perhaps Paterno and the school has been ordered not to respond since there is an on-going investigation.”
That could be the case but Paterno isn’t facing legal charges…..this is all a morality issue with him and the folks that failed to put a stop to what was going on.
Blake-
Screw Law. Let’s send GB down there.
At the very least we’ll get our hands on some contraband Cuban cigars.
GB needs a break after all that hard work on his house.
Whaddya’ say ? Should we send him ?
Ackley isn’t even the best rookie on his own team.
LGY-
Liked your audio tape of Ron Washington’s speech to his team before the final game. Sounds like it was leaked by a clubhouse assisstant. Maybe a plant for Nolan Ryan?
I’ve got to run.
Hike day today.
Have a good day everyone.
Yoenis Cespedes “The Showcase” Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kREZHmOR1bg
Six thoughts:
1. I expected that would be the tactic PSU would use. They’re not going to let Paterno comment on an ongoing investigation that not only is damning to the school’s reputation but also could wind up costing the university millions in civil court.
2. That said, if I’m a reporter there is no way I ask Paterno about the football game – I’m not letting them get away with even the vestige of normallcy.
3. I wouldn’t say that I’m desperate for the Yankees to sign Yeonis Cespedes, but his talent does sound intriguing and given the lack of obvious talent on the market he could well be the best available player.
4. Keith Law is wrong as often as he is right – he just covers up his wrongness by being snarky when called on it. The majority of those who have seen Cespedes rave about his talent. One negative take on the Cuban league (which I find questionable since to the best of my knowledge Law has never been to Cuba) shouldn’t dissuade teams.
5. The Marlins are in on everyone – they’ve got meetings set up with Reyes, Buhrle, Jackson, Cespedes and may move on Pujols or Fielder – sounds like they are desperate to generate some pub heading into their new park.
6. Great move by the Twins dismissing Bill Smith and bringing back Terry Ryan. Smith’s list of deals is one failure after another. And, while you can’t fault him for doing it, the worst of all might turn out to be the Mauer contract.
GB – compared to her prior boyfriend, I was a gift from Heaven, lol. I had a paying job……
Re: Darvish, Cespedes, and whomever the nom-du-jour is today – the Yanks have to do their own scouting and due diligence. You can’t trust anyone else or any other source other than your own people, and draw your own conclusions as to the worth of that player. This is where Billy Eppler and Damon Oppenheimer earn their keep
Re: Penn State scandal – maybe they figure that they can control the local media. That may work in Happy Valley, but not with the national media. Child sex abuse is a hot topic in the media, and when it involves big names, it’s even bigger and hotter a story. Trying to ignore it and blow off questions will only make for a bigger story.
This is not some feel good story about the team beating up on some poor opponent. Penn State’s PR office likely has not encountered something of this magnitude before.
Yoenis Cespedes “The Showcase” Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kREZHmOR1bg
“Ackley isn’t even the best rookie on his own team.”
I would vote for Pineda …….but lackey is became their 3 hitter and best position player as a rookie….and plays every day
Ackley isn’t even the best rookie on his own team.
————————————
GB-
Are you referring to Michael Pineda. The winner of the AL ROY will probably be Jeremy Hellickson, with Ivan Nova, Michael Pineda, Mark Trumbo, and Eric Hosmer in the top 5.
Thoughts?
Ugh….Ackely…not Lackey.
Int’l market the Yankees are buying first round picks, that’s simply the way it works. Hit or miss just like the draft, but there there is no flexability to make trades or pay your way in. Int’l market while a lot of money has been spent, it has led to many pieces for the Yankees over the years. Given their lack of OF depth at higher levels and Granderson soon going for a new deal, Swisher one year left, it sort of makes sense to chase a guy like this if the scouts like him.
The things I don’t like on the face of it is the stop and stare at the homers. The attitude. Not that there are character issues, but I am not a big fan of some of that already whether that is the culture there or not. Ego.
All Im saying about Cespedes is that there os no guarantee he’s actually better than Swisher is right now. I would consider signing him but also would keep the current outfield.
blake November 8th, 2011 at 9:40 am
“Perhaps Paterno and the school has been ordered not to respond since there is an on-going investigation.”
That could be the case but Paterno isn’t facing legal charges…..this is all a morality issue with him and the folks that failed to put a stop to what was going on.
————–
It’s not a legal issue for Paterno “yet” and the criminal case is just one part of this. I wouldn’t be shocked to see a slew of civil suits asking for damages in the millions follow in the coming years.
Yoenis Cespedes “The Showcase” Videooooo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kREZHmOR1bg
My ROY voting would be
1. Hellickson
2. Pineda
3. Nova.
4. Ackely
5. Hosmer
blake November 8th, 2011 at 9:50 am
All Im saying about Cespedes is that there os no guarantee he’s actually better than Swisher is right now. I would consider signing him but also would keep the current outfield.
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In fairness there’s no guarantee that Freddy Garcia is going to be able to pitch well next year, that Jesus Montero is going to be able to hit at a ML level all season long, that Curtis Granderson will be able to duplicate his success or that Alex Rodriguez is going to be able to play more than 100 games.
Sometimes you have to take a chance.
Definitely. Cespedes could be a complete bust as well. He’s 26 now.
Swisher, Granderson and Gardner with him starting in the minors and maybe being your fourth OF. If he turns out to be the real deal maybe you trade Swisher to the NL midseason to get some pieces back, he would be attractive to another team as a rental if this guy turned out to be that good.
The video he reminds me of a Raul Mondesi type guy. Enough speed, bigger, etc.
Joe,
I suppose that having somebody that could not only pay for his own food but his daughter’s is always a bonus.
Chip,
Oh sure. Im no lawyer but based on the current info I don’t see a legal case against Paterno……but civil stuff who knows. This thing is going to blow up in a gigantic way.
Phrancise,
Yes.
Yankee Trader November 8th, 2011 at 9:46 am
Ackley isn’t even the best rookie on his own team.
————————————
GB-
Are you referring to Michael Pineda. The winner of the AL ROY will probably be Jeremy Hellickson, with Ivan Nova, Michael Pineda, Mark Trumbo, and Eric Hosmer in the top 5.
Thoughts?
————————————————————————————————————————-
Not only Pineda, but Mike Carp had a better year.
AL ROY? I think it’s between Trumbo and Hellickson. Nova will probably finish 4th.
Re: the Marlins
My guess is that they are just trying to get their name out there to stir up interest for the new stadium. Can’t see them actually landing one of the big guys……but linking themselves to as many as possible is probably good for business
Add Hosmer, though, it was only for a partial season.
“In fairness there’s no guarantee that ….”
fill in the blank with any team or any player
Best laid plans…….. often go awry.
blake November 8th, 2011 at 9:54 am
Chip,
Oh sure. Im no lawyer but based on the current info I don’t see a legal case against Paterno……but civil stuff who knows. This thing is going to blow up in a gigantic way.
————–
The legal case against Paterno would be if he knowingly allowed this behavior to continue, then he could be charged with endangering the welfare of a minor or conspiracy (as possibly could others at PSU)
Blake-
I read/heard that Jose Reyes and Hanley Ramirez are good friends and Ramirez has already said he’ll move to 3rd to accomodate Reyes. Marlins new stadium-wouldn’t rule them out to make a big signing.
GB-
Hosmer had over 500 AB’s
—————
“In fairness there’s no guarantee that Freddy Garcia is going to be able to pitch well next year, that Jesus Montero is going to be able to hit at a ML level all season long, that Curtis Granderson will be able to duplicate his success or that Alex Rodriguez is going to be able to play more than 100 games.”
Well no…..but Garcia has had two straight solid seasons in the big leagues and Montero has performed at AAA and for a month in the bigs……so there is a lot more info there against better competition.
I personally think Trumbo should get ROY but he won’t because of the low OBP. Amazing how so many people have become slaves to that one stat that they allow it to dominate all the others.
I am glad Cespedes is available if for no other reason than it gives us a new topic to discuss. Of course, we have extremely little knowledge about him, but that will not keep us(me included)from having opinions on the subject. Since when is lack of knowledge an impediment.
I would look at him carefully as the Yankees have very little upper minor league outfielders with upside. Swisher will be a free agent next year, and my bet is Kemp will staywith the Dodgers and their new owner. He is worth considering.
Where else do you hear Chrisopher Cross anymore, but on his video? That would be one downside.
Chip,
That would be a tough conviction I think…..
Trader,
Yea I know…..but will the Marlins pay him and will he want to go there and lose?
blake November 8th, 2011 at 9:59 am
Re: the Marlins
My guess is that they are just trying to get their name out there to stir up interest for the new stadium. Can’t see them actually landing one of the big guys……but linking themselves to as many as possible is probably good for business
——————
I think to get a big player the Marlins will have to do what the Nats did which is grossly overpay so that FAs will take them seriously.
Florida does have a couple of things going for them, not the least of which is no state income tax.
“I would look at him carefully as the Yankees have very little upper minor league outfielders with upside”
They do but not in the upper levels. I think if the Yanks sign him it will be because of that and to hedge against Kemp staying in LA as you say. A 6/30 type risk is nothing for the Yankees…..so while I don’t think you coukd count on him initially…..if they think he’s the real deal they should sign him.
blake November 8th, 2011 at 10:07 am
Chip,
That would be a tough conviction I think…..
Trader,
Yea I know…..but will the Marlins pay him and will he want to go there and lose?
———————–
Tough but not impossible and the best way to avoid it is by not saying anything at all.
As for the Marlins – they have a strong pitching staff and a few good young players – If Stanton keeps developing, Hanley has a bounce back year and JJ can stay healthy I wouldn’t rule them out in the Wild Card race.
Ackley was more productive than Trumbo in 50 less games.
Ackley would be a good choice for ROY if Hellickson wasn’t going to win it. Pineda was good, but Ackley had a larger impact in a shorter time period.
Thanks Erin. That whole PSU thing is a mess… the fact that the guy has been working there since the early 80s or late 70s doesn’t help at all. Over that long of a period of time.. its hard to know who may or may not have covered something up along the way. An argument could also be made that since some of the stories appear to imply this was blatantly obvious behavior, the whole program is responsible.
I think Cespedes is interesting because the outfield is the one area we can improve upon (mostly based on the contract length of our boys out there). The infield is locked up at this point. Anyone know what kind of arm this guy has?
LGY – There was a good article written last year in the offseason about the Pirates and how small market teams should handle the offseason. The gist of it was they should be “in” on every single free-agent publicly… creating the perception that they are trying to improve the club without necessarily spending money.
What a wimp Paterno is.
===================
Wimp? I’m a wimp for using 40 sun block at the beach. Paterno is a coward.
Yea I know?..but will the Marlins pay him and will he want to go there and lose?
********************
Well, it’s not like he’s not used to losing.
Blake,
The good Yankee outfield prospects at in low A ball or short season. That leaves open a need in the next year. Don’t know about Cespedes, but it is something the team will have to address shortly.
Yea I know?..but will the Marlins pay him and will he want to go there and lose?
===================
New stadium would seem to compel the Marlins to start adding some payroll and fielding a more competitive team.
Irreverent Discourse November 8th, 2011 at 10:11 am
Ackley was more productive than Trumbo in 50 less games.
————-
Trumbo: 29HR, 87RBI, 65runs, 9sb
Ackley: 6HR, 36RBI, 39runs, 6sb
where exactly was Ackley more productive?
Lefty Dustin Ackley hit .273 in 333ABs with 6 homers and 79 strikeouts, batting .224 against lefties.
Righty Mark Trumbo hit .254 in 539 ABs with 29 homers and 120 strikeouts, batting .249 against righties.
Lefy Eric Hosmer hit .293 in 523 ABs with 19 homers and 82 strikeouts hit .237 against lefties.
Still think Jeremy Hellickson with his 2.95 ERA and .210 BAA and WHIP 1.15 deserves it, pitching in the AL East.
Can see a better argument for E. Hosmer (19 homers, 78 RBI, 66 runs, 11 SB’s, .800 OPS) over Trumbo than I can for Ackley over Trumbo.
Seems Nova won’t get much play on this vote, which is a shame. He certainly performed to the level of all of the guys being mentioned and did so in an environment where his team needed him to perform well. That’s true of Hellickson too, but not so much these other guys like Ackley, Trumbo and Hosmer. They were on clubs playing out the string.
Hosmer and Ackely are both going to be really good players.
Marlins with the new stadium can certainly make a push. Reyes, Hanley, some good young players, a healthy Josh Johnson, it’s not like that are an awful. Braves collapsed, Phillies with guys getting older and Howard out, Mets stink. No reason they can’t spend some money like they have in the past for one year and make a run.
Stanton, Hanley, Reyes, Morrison, Coghlan.
Johnson, Sanchez, Vazquez, Nolasco
They are talking to Buerhle. They could sign some vets to one year deals and certainly have a shot next year. Not long term, but right away yes.
Trader -
I could give it to Hellickson over Trumbo for the reasons you pointed to…even wouldn’t be annoyed by Hosmer – but Ackley getting it because he’s some sabermetric guy’s wet dream would be a shame. Almost like Angel Berroa getting it over Hideki Matsui because someone decided that Matsui shouldn’t count as a rookie.
If you want to follow daily reports on Yu Darvish, this website has some good quotes. Especially read the November 6th interview with his father.
Posting again:
http://yakyubaka.com/tag/yu-darvish/
#YoenisCespedes
Yoenis Cespedes “The Showcase” Videooo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kREZHmOR1bg
blake November 8th, 2011 at 10:31 am
Hosmer and Ackely are both going to be really good players.
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Also true – and in the end ROY doesn’t matter. After all, Angel Berroa and Ben Grieve both won it…didn’t do much for their careers.
Im not buying the Marlins as a contender…..that’s a tough division and I actually think the Nats will contend sooner.
I’m kind of curious what the Angels will do with Trumbo this year with Morales coming back.
blake November 8th, 2011 at 10:33 am
Im not buying the Marlins as a contender…..that’s a tough division and I actually think the Nats will contend sooner.
————
both teams have good young pitching staffs – but I think the Marlins group is better and more ready to challenge than the Nats. Also Florida has a group of good young position players – Nats fall way short on that.
I think if Nova had gotten to 18 wins, but he lost out in the last couple of starts. Still, even if he doesn’t get ROY, it takes nothing away from his contribution to 2011.
One other thing – it was a really large rookie class, wasn’t it? I mean, some years, you’re lucky if there’s two rookies worth considering. Look how many excellent candidates there are.
yanks99-
Haven’t watched the 20 minute video yet, but he’d be a 4th OF’er on the Yankees, until they got a good look at him in the season, where possibly they trade Swisher at the trading deadline.
However if Justin Maxwell could cut down on his strikeouts, might he offer the same good defense, arm and power?
Chip – Runs/RBi’s are meaningless, he has no control over people before or behind him getting on base. By your measure Ackley would have been a better rookie if he had been on a better offense. What does that tell us about Ackley? Nothing.
ackley – 90 games, 91 hits, 40 walks, 79 k’s,
trumbo – 137 hits and 25 walks in 149 games, 120 k’s
162 game average (via baseball reference):
ackley – 164 hits, 72 walks, 142 k’s, 11HR
trumbo – 142 hits, 27 walks, 132 k’s, 30HR
I’ll take Ackley every day. It’s amazing how blinded people get by power.
Joba_62 No day is more special than today. Make the most of what u have and be thankful for all ur blessings!!
Fortune Cookie Joba is back
Villa-
You’re right-there were a lot of exciting rookies this year. In fact one that will be overlooked is relief pitcher Aaron Crow of the Royals, who, I believe, was the only rookie selected from the AL to the all-star game.
If Runs and RBIs don’t matter, why do sabergeeks constantly harp on not “hitting in the clutch”?
Erin-
I had the same thought, only I thought “Confucious Joba is back!” LOL
Hosmer – 194 hits, 43 bb’s, 104 k’s, 24hr, 14sb
Yeah, I’d vote for Hosmer over Ackley, but Trumbo never even makes the list.
GB7 – Why do you feel the need to lump all “saber geeks” into one category? When you find me saying something like that, let me know.
Villa Nova-
Yankee Trader -
I’m mostly Yankee-centric, but it’s nice to see new faces making a great impression, no matter what team they’re on!
I’m no PSU fan, but Paterno has always been a man of integrity. I’m not sure it is fair to slander a man of his caliber on inuendo. He addressed the issue of a “former” coach who had emeritus status at the university to the school authorities. That is proper protocol IMO. The U dropped the ball after that.
If Paterno had wittnessed it himself, then he should have called the police himself. The school authorities are responsible now. They should have called the police.
Irreverent Discourse November 8th, 2011 at 10:36 am
Chip – Runs/RBi’s are meaningless, he has no control over people before or behind him getting on base. By your measure Ackley would have been a better rookie if he had been on a better offense. What does that tell us about Ackley? Nothing.
ackley – 90 games, 91 hits, 40 walks, 79 k’s,
trumbo – 137 hits and 25 walks in 149 games, 120 k’s
162 game average (via baseball reference):
ackley – 164 hits, 72 walks, 142 k’s, 11HR
trumbo – 142 hits, 27 walks, 132 k’s, 30HR
I’ll take Ackley every day. It’s amazing how blinded people get by power.
—————-
You can’t assume productivity over the course of a season just because a computer tells you you can.
It’s like when a player goes on a tear – you can project that over the course of a full season and wind up with a guy hitting .390 with 150 HR and 300 hits…it doesn’t mean it is going to happen.
From MLBTR’s:
Multiple Japanese teams have interest in Kei Igawa, who reached free agency after his five-year deal with the Yankees expired.
There should be a reverse posting system where the Yankees could get the posting fee for Igawa!
Multiple Japanese teams have interest in Kei Igawa, who reached free agency after his five-year deal with the Yankees expired.
*************************
Chip – No computer told me that, it’s simple math to project out to a full season. Keep burying your head in the sand, i guess.
ID -
And if you want to say that runs and rbi don’t matter (which they do) then let’s take into account the following.
One out of every 5 ABs Mark Trumbo is hitting a home run, which means he’s generating at least one run for his team every 5 at bats.
Ackley, on the other hand, is producing a run for his team once ever fifteen at bats.
Who, by that measure, is doing more to help his team win? Trumbo.
And yes, Ackley (by B.Ref’s projections) would get on base more – but if you’re not generating runs, how does getting on base help your team?
Chip – Would you rather it was broken down to hits per game, walks per game and such? Ackley will show the same higher level of production over Trumbo with those numbers if it makes you happy.
Chip – And yes, Ackley (by B.Ref’s projections) would get on base more – but if you’re not generating runs, how does getting on base help your team?
This could be the dumbest thing you’ve ever said on this message board.
TylerKepner Dan Duquette’s wikipedia page proclaims the Orioles as 2012 World Series champions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Duquette
Irreverent Discourse November 8th, 2011 at 10:50 am
Chip – No computer told me that, it’s simple math to project out to a full season. Keep burying your head in the sand, i guess.
—————
I’m not burying my head in the sand – it’s just silly to project a full season out of a partial season. You can’t account for a slump or hot streak that would throw all your projections off by who knows how much.
What if Ackley had played those 50 extra games early in the season and as a result the league made greater adjustments to him and his second half was miserable? Where would your numbers be then?
You’re trying to argue against what one guy might have done (Ackley) against what another guy did do (Trumbo).
By that logic I could say that Ivan Nova should be ROY because if he hadn’t been sent to the minors he might have won 20 games
GreenBeret7 says:
November 8, 2011 at 9:42 am
Ackley isn’t even the best rookie on his own team.
==========
well, there were a lot to choose from (18, to be exact)
Irreverent Discourse November 8th, 2011 at 10:52 am
Chip – And yes, Ackley (by B.Ref’s projections) would get on base more – but if you’re not generating runs, how does getting on base help your team?
This could be the dumbest thing you’ve ever said on this message board.
——————
Explain it to me then. Would you rather have Tex bunt against the shift to up his OBP or try to hit home runs over it to generate runs?
RayVT,
Im withholding judgement on Joe Pa until I hear his side……but if its true that he was told this happened and then never followed up on it then he and everyone else that did the same should be ashamed. The school dropped the ball but Paterno appears to have been part of that.
Need to change the subject–
Yu Darvish, is expected to be posted by Nippon after the Japanese postseason ends. If the finals go seven games, that would be Nov. 20.
First there might not be any big ticket free agents signed until the new CBA is signed.
If Darvish requests his team to post him, let’s say first week in December, by the time the MLB commissioner is notified, the 4 day silent auction takes place, the winning team is notified and contract negotiations take place that have a window of 30 days. it could well be the middle of January, before Darvish is signed sealed and delivered.
How many teams will wait until January to firm up their starting pitching thru free agency or trade.
That being said, I still think the Yankees should bid on him. If they win and can’t come to a contract agreement, at worst he goes back to Japan until next offseason.
“That being said, I still think the Yankees should bid on him. If they win and can’t come to a contract agreement, at worst he goes back to Japan until next offseason.”
Yea I agree and that’s what I’ve been saying. Bid to win and then play hardball on the contract…..
“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4enYUg1vZwo”
Someone earlier posted this highlight video of Darvish. It’s around 8min long so its on the longer side of the videos available for him.
It’s a highlight reel primarily made up of strike threes on his strike outs. As these videos are generally set up to do – they really highlight moments of positive performance.
And from the video there’s definitely things to like – his slider has nice bite, particularly when its down in the zone.
But what was particularly interesting about that video was how often Darvish misses his spot – often by a lot – and still rings up strike outs. For me, that was what was most surprising about that clip.
This is only a highlight clip so its not like one can draw any definitive conclusions. You can’t. It’s too small a sample obviously. Its just an observation – something I was surprised to see, particularly in a video where Darvish is in theory showcased at the better range of his performance (and given that the video is almost entirely made up of strike outs it clearly showcases him at the top of his outcome performance). But he misses his spot in that video far more often than I would have guessed, especially for a guy with such good control.
This seems particularly true of Darvish’s fastball. In that clip he often gets quite a bit of arm side run on the ball and it tails back. In general, he opens up his front side fairly early and his arm can lag if he doesn’t get it through quick enough. Darvish has an interesting arm action – sort of herky in that it almost has two distinct phases. That herkiness adds deception – but its complicated also. In the first phase he’s almost a little long. The second he’s almost a little short. If he’s not short enough in that second phase it seems like he can have trouble staying on top.
The other interesting thing in that video is that he gets a number of strikes called on pitches up in the zone.
Again – this isn’t a reason not to bid for him or to not get him. Just an observation based on a very tiny sample. Unfortunately, that’s all we have on him for the most part as fans outside of his statistics. And the statistics for pitchers from Japan haven’t generalized that well to the U.S.
You can see this issue with Darvish missing spots but still getting a positive outcome in this clip of him facing Matt Murton. Notice the arm side run on the fastball which leads him to miss his spot. The clip with Murton is interesting not only because he’s a former MLB player – but also because Murton absolutely tore up the Japanese baseball after he got there. I believe he broke Ichiro’s record for most hits in a season there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
Chip – First off, Trumbo hits a home run once every 20 plate appearances, not once every 5 at bats, get your facts right. Assuming they were all solo home runs (as that’s all he gets credit for, not guys being on base ahead of him) that leaves him with 109 hits and 26 walks in 560 PA’s with 29 pure runs created. That means 3 out of 4 plate appearances that he doesn’t hit a home run, he is creating an out. In another light it means that other than his home runs, he only has a chance to produce another run 1 out of 4 at bats. That is piss poor for production OUTSIDE of his home runs. Ackley gets on base and has the opportunity to create runs in 1 out of 3 at bats. I assume I don’t have to tell you which rate is better.
This is why OBP gets so much love, not because of some wet dream fantasy like GB would have you believe… but because over the course of a season it is a much more consistent and productive way to score runs, especially more consistent than relying on the home run.
If bunting against the shift had a higher success rate than hitting a home run then… yes… I would ask any player to do that. Fact of the matter is that your extreme example doesn’t show that success rate, so it makes little sense in this context. Baseball is about one thing, not creating outs. Whatever your highest chance of not creating outs is should always be what you choose to do. Players don’t “hit home runs” on purpose, they just hit the ball hard and a home run is one of many possible results (less than 15% of all possible outcomes IIRC).
If Ackley had better players batting before and after him he would have had more runs/PA and RBI/PA, he doesn’t control that so why give him credit for it?
CB – I have a slow-mo clip of Darvish in the link on my name above. When I look at that it screams future elbow problems. Am I reading the video wrong?
Back to Darvish.
CB thanks for the more recent video of Darvish. Strikes out Murton on a 93 mph high heat.
From all I’ve read about him and the video I’ve seen, he could be the one very successful Japanese/Iranian pitcher to hit the US shores since Hideo Nomo.
ID and CB-
From what I’ve read, Darvish relies on his slider 25% of the time, which is the one pitch that puts the most stress on the elbow. Good point ID.
After watching the Cespedes video, I know he has very strong core muscles, has a 45 inch vertical leap, can leg press big weights +2 people, has decent speed, admires his HRs too long, can make an outfield catch behind his back and is in need of new representation who will present him as all baseball player and not part circus act.
SI_JonHeymanJon Heyman
#yankees exec billy eppler grew up w/ cj wilson. whether this means anything, i dont know. #yanks also eye darvish & e-jax
“Strikes out Murton on a 93 mph high heat.”
YT,
He does. But the catcher is set up low and away. The ball Murton swings through is up and in.
That’s the point I was trying to make. Darvish misses his spot terribly.
In fact – if you go back and look at that clip – after getting strike one the catcher then sets up low and away on the next three pitches.
But Darvish misses that spot on every pitch. Each time despite the catcher being set up low and away the ball runs back arm side and high so it ends up up and in.
Now Darvish is throwing around 93-94 in that clip so he has enough life to throw it past Murton. But each of those pitches is a mistake – a big one. In general, not many pitchers can do that in the majors here in the U.S.
I have no real way of judging whether this is something that Darvish does in general – these clips could just be exceptions. It’s just interesting. And the way he throws the ball mechanically lends itself to getting that kind of arm side run on it.
ID,
I really don’t know if Darvish is prone to injury – or more prone than most pitchers. I think its really difficult to forecast that. And in general if you project that a certain pitcher will get hurt you’ll be right just be random chance because so many pitchers do get hurt.
Darvish opens his front side up more than I like and doesn’t use his legs as much as I’d like. But I can’t see anything that would make him more of an injury risk than the usual pitcher (outside of his workload at a young age).
Couple thoughts on available FA pitchers.
Buehrle is going to be looking for at least 2 years, after making 14M last year, his 11th straight year of pitching 200 innings. Freddy Garcia pretty much mirrored his 2011 results for less money.
If Eppler grew up with CJ Wilson, then they are southern California guys. Don’t see the Yankees spending a minimum of 5/15M per year on him.
Might it not make more sense to find a FA starter that might accept a one year deal. If as rumored that Hiroki Kuroda might be willing to leave LA, wouldn’t he be worth a shot as #3 in the Yankee rotation.
@HerbieTeope: Dateline NBC needs to send Chris Hansen to Joe Paterno’s presser today at Penn State.
NewsdaySports: Wow, today’s Joe Paterno press conference appears to have been canceled
CB-
Thanks. I just finished looking at the clip again. After shaking off the final pitch, he does miss up and in. In fact, Murton swung at every pitch, the first pitch being the only one thrown to where the catcher had set up.
Hate to veer from the hot stove, but PSU’s gutless president has announced Paterno’s PC this afternoon is canceled. With all due respect to RayVT, I’m sticking with Paterno is a coward.
Re: Kuroda, read the Hiroshima Carp were prepared to make him an offer. Thought I read that he preferred the left coast or Japan.
ID –
You’re still not addressing the fact that you’re arguing what someone might have done vs. what someone actually did through use of projection. In handing out a free agent contract or looking ahead to the following season that might be applicable, but when awarding a player for production in the previous year it doesn’t fit.
For example, let’s say A-Rod starts off 2012 with a monster first half – on pace to hit .330 with 167 hits, 60 HR and 140 RBI and a high OPS but he gets hurt in early July and doesn’t play the rest of the season. Should he win MVP because of what he might have done based on projections had he played a full season or should the award go to Miguel Cabrera who played all season and hit .332 with 150 hits 35 HR and 120 RBI and a slightly lower OPS? Alex was projected to do better than Cabrera actually did so should Alex get the award?
Of course you give it to Cabrera because he actually did reach those numbers. You don’t know that Alex would have maintained that pace. Just like you don’t know that Ackley would have maintained his performance over 50 more games.
Yankees Yankee Stadium grounds crew paints the end zone for Saturday’s Army-Rutgers football game … http://pic.twitter.com/NT4lmgdI
I’d still like to have both Garcia and Colon back next season.
I’m surprised that, in light of what came out yesterday, they didn’t just postpone or cancel the PC.
But the local writers must get their quotes.
Except now they won’t.
I will admit that I had not heard of the Cuban Centipede until yesterday.
# Erin November 8th, 2011 at 11:42 am
NewsdaySports: Wow, today’s Joe Paterno press conference appears to have been canceled
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Not the time to run and hide
Erin November 8th, 2011 at 11:42 am
NewsdaySports: Wow, today’s Joe Paterno press conference appears to have been canceled
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Wow. Not all that surprising though, just ‘wow’ worthy.
I believe, if I’m correct the Penn State Nittany Lions have had only 2 coaches since 1950.
___ ______ coached the Penn State Nittany Lions football teams from 1950 to 1965, after coaching at Brown University for six seasons. When ______ was hired at Penn State, he brought with him his former quarterback Joe Paterno as an assistant coach. In ______ sixteen seasons at Penn State, he compiled a 104-48-4 record and a .679 winning percentage.
Quickly, can you name the coach before Paterno?
Against All Odds November 8th, 2011 at 11:47 am
Not the time to run and hide
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Yea, sorta makes it look worse, doesn’t it?
I will admit that I had not heard of the Cuban Centipede until yesterday.
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Welcome to the club. He went from unknown to popular over night
jimbaumbach Paterno is scheduled to also take part in a Big Ten conference call with reporters this afternoon. No word if he backed out of that, too.
Chip – That’s why I stopped using the projected numbers. You just can’t seemto handle the concept.
Very simply put, Ackley was more productive over his 90 games than Trumbo was over his 137 games.
ackley – 1.01 H/game, 0.44 BB/game, 0.87 SO/game
trumbo – 0.92 H/game, 0.17 BB/game, 0.81 SO/game
More hits, more walks, similar K rate. This means you are on base more, which means your team has the opportunity to score runs more often. Home runs are not everything in baseball, and should not be relied upon for production.
So if the fact that Trumbo played more games is more impressive to you, I can only ask why you would give someone more credit for performing at worse rates than another player. Repeatedly bashing your head against the wall doesn’t not make it a better idea as time goes on.
Against All Odds November 8th, 2011 at 11:47 am
Not the time to run and hide
***************
Yeah, they’re not doing themselves any favors.
PSU cancelled the presser?
Just a continuation of their gutless and pathetic conduct revolving around Sandusky.
does not*
Also… None of this really matters because Hosmer trumped them both on production.
The proper way of comparing players that played different numbers of games is looking at rate stats, not just blindly claiming that the player with less games “could have been bad”. That makes the same poor assumption you are trying to tag on me for using the normalized 162 game stats.
per MLBTRADERUMORS.com………………The Yankees were disappointed Jonathan Sanchez went to the Royals, as they believed they had more to offer to the Giants. The Royals acquired Sanchez and a minor leaguer from the Giants for Melky Cabrera yesterday.
@SI_JonHeyman
Jon Heyman #yankees disappointed sanchez went to kc. believed they had more to offer (then again, sf likes melky more than nyy do)
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I’m confused as to what the Yankees were going to give up that was “more than Melky Cabrera”… They don’t have any extra players laying around that had 199 hits last season that I know of…
PSU said yesterday they wouldn’t address any of the accusations at the presser today just football questions.
The 200+ media members who showed up today must not have believed them.
Rosenthal feels that Hiroki Kuroda “might be more open to playing elsewhere, having gone through the experience of considering another team.” I ranked Kuroda 15th on my top 50 free agents list.
# Shame Spencer November 8th, 2011 at 11:49 am
Against All Odds November 8th, 2011 at 11:47 am
Not the time to run and hide
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Yea, sorta makes it look worse, doesn’t it?
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A lot worse…just attack it head on and face the music.
CB,
High…good to see you. Valid take on Darvish and its true that the strike zone is different in Japan and its also true that big league hitters aren’t going to chase as much …..things to keep in mind. Im still interested and curious about him though.
Thoughts on Cespedes?
# Erin November 8th, 2011 at 11:55 am
Against All Odds November 8th, 2011 at 11:47 am
Not the time to run and hide
***************
Yeah, they’re not doing themselves any favors.
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No favors what so ever because now it looks like they are trying to avoid it as much as they can.
Im not disappointed KC got Sanchez
ID-
Heyman starting rumors without any basis again. If the Giants wanted an Ofer with some power that was fairly cheap[Melky projected to get 4.4M in arbitration] what could the Yankees offer-only light hitting Brett Gardner?
I don’t care that KC got Sanchez.
I suspect that the Yankees don’t care all that much either.
Irreverent Discourse November 8th, 2011 at 11:54 am
Chip – That’s why I stopped using the projected numbers. You just can’t seemto handle the concept.
————
It’s not that I can’t handle it – it’s that I don’t agree with the use of it. Projections aren’t close to being certain enough to be trusted. Nor are the rates you show because again, they rely on a player maintaing that pace.
When asked “who was more productive” the guy who played more is always going to win. Even if you’re just average you’re still producing more than the person who doesn’t play at all.
If someone told you that you could sign Johan Santana for 5yrs $85 mil or CJ Wilson for the same amount of money but you had to take one of them, which one do you take? Wilson right? Even though when healthy Santana is the far superior pitcher you wouldn’t invest in him because he’s never healthy so while you might not get as much out of Wilson as you would a healthy Santana, you’re still, over the course of the contract, going to likely get more out of Wilson because he’s going to take the ball every fifth day.
Heyman? Grain of salt time again.
But yes, you are correct that it doesn’t matter since neither Trumbo or Ackley should get ROY
“I suspect that the Yankees don’t care all that much either.”
Agreed.
Paterno isn’t going to survive this……he may not make it to Saturday.
Hell has a special place for child molesters…so does prison…
I hope everyone involved gets what is coming to them and more.
I think the Yankees do sign Yoenis if he’s close to what people think he is. He doesn’t have to be there, but near the projection.
For about $35 million x 5, they get a Dickerson like 4th outfielder, and Swisher insurance. Swish then becomes expendable in late 2012 or 2013 if Yoenis is really any good.
If he’s not, then they take some of the loss and trade him. They are the Yankees, and they can afford to take the hit.
Yu is another story. Again, there may be a window now with the CBA unsigned to do things if one really wanted to push the limits. Yu is much more of a risk.
Penn State: Joe P is legally ok, but ethically not. PSU deserves the media a-swhupping they are about to get.
LGY November 8th, 2011 at 11:56 am
PSU cancelled the presser?
Just a continuation of their gutless and pathetic conduct revolving around Sandusky.
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It makes sense though – no one was going to ask Paterno about the football game and Paterno wasn’t going to answer questions about Sandusky. It would have been 5 minutes of “no comment” and then he would have gotten up and left.
What will get me extremely angry though (as if this hasn’t already) is if they win on Saturday and Paterno takes the podium and the press lets him off the hook by pretending that the game actually mattered.
When asked “who was more productive” the guy who played more is always going to win.
I think that’s the part you’re wrong about, or just slightly missing the point of.
If I tell you that Player A hit 20 home runs in 20 games, and Player B hit 20 home runs in 162 games, which player was more productive?
Production is literally defined as work over time. Time is most certainly an equal factor, and not one in favor of higher production.
“Thoughts on Cespedes?”
Blake,
I know nothing about him other than that bizarre video. May have a promising career on a cooking channel…
Its very difficult to know what to make of the quality of baseball in Cuba now. Once they were international Giants – but that time has largely passed.
There’s some conjecture – which I think is very valid – that between defections and the closed nature of their system – that the competition just isn’t there anymore to drive players to become better.
He’s obviously an impressive athlete. He might make for a great running back – but otherwise I have no idea.
On the whole, I think the yankees should make moves for premium talents – and if those talents aren’t around then they should come up with temporary solutions and take their chances.
And right now – I don’t see any premium talents available on the free agent market. For me, Darvish has some talent but too much uncertainty to be a true premium guy. Just my personal take.
blake November 8th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Paterno isn’t going to survive this……he may not make it to Saturday.
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Sure he will. The university wants to believe they did nothing wrong. Remember they think (or are saying in public at any rate) that everyone will be exonorated. They’re not going to back away from that by asking Paterno to step down this week. He’ll duck the media and that’s that.
And I’m sure that by Saturday ESPN will discuss the game, slobber all over JoPa and what a great coach and man he is…blah blah blah.
Irreverent Discourse November 8th, 2011 at 12:00 pm
I’m confused as to what the Yankees were going to give up that was “more than Melky Cabrera”… They don’t have any extra players laying around that had 199 hits last season that I know of…
///
For the sake of accuracy, Cabrera had 201 hits in 2011
///
Interesting video posted there by CB on Darvish. I haven’t really paid attention to him until now. Yea, he does seem to have a little AJ in him with the ball drifting back over the plate, but the arm is lively, which I really like. I don’t see much elbow violence in the delivery, frankly. Might as well bag him – they really, really could use a younger, live arm.
judybattista WOW. Paterno to go. http://nyti.ms/rrLQCt
“He’s obviously an impressive athlete. He might make for a great running back – but otherwise I have no idea.”
Yea….that’s the question I keep asking….can he play baseball and can he play it at the big league level. If the Yankeeskees want to spend the dough to put him in the minors and find out…..great…..but the idea that he can come straight in and immediately upgrade the yankee outfield is crazy to me.
We may need a bigger salt shaker to make it through this off season…..
SI_JonHeymanJon Heyman
Redsox interested in carlos beltran. #giants likely out after getting melky. competing exec predict 2-yr deal w/ bos
“Valid take on Darvish and its true that the strike zone is different in Japan and its also true that big league hitters aren’t going to chase as much …..things to keep in mind. ”
….Also, anyone wanna take a guess at how the ineptitude of umpires translates from country to country?
I wish we had comparison reports of accuracy amongst the umps in MLB. It’d be even cooler to see if other leagues are getting it right more or less often.
Irreverent Discourse November 8th, 2011 at 12:13 pm
When asked “who was more productive” the guy who played more is always going to win.
I think that’s the part you’re wrong about, or just slightly missing the point of.
If I tell you that Player A hit 20 home runs in 20 games, and Player B hit 20 home runs in 162 games, which player was more productive?
Production is literally defined as work over time. Time is most certainly an equal factor, and not one in favor of higher production.
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Yeah but in your example you’re taking the same amount over a shorter period of games.
If I have a Player X who had 150 hits, 30 HR in 150 games or Player Y who had fewer hits and HR but a better rate of hits and HR to at bats in a shorter period of time – Player X is still the more productive one over the course of the season. He, quite literally, produced more than Player Y did.
prufrock – TY for the correction, forgot he got his 2 hits before he got benched.
I’ve seen Nova referred to as “effectively wild” which seems pretty accurate, if Darvish is the same type of pitcher I would gladly pass on him. It might be effective in spurts but over the long haul not having real control will be a detriment.
Chip,
I really don’t think so…..I don’t think he coaches Saturday.
Chip – That’s only because you completely overvalue home runs compared to getting on base.
upstate kate November 8th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Hell has a special place for child molesters…so does prison…
————————
The only cases where I legitimately support a blanket death sentence to anyone proven 100% guilty.
ID –
To me it is also why a starting pitcher can’t be MVP. How can you be the most valuable member of a team if you only impact one out of every five games?
@nytimes: Penn State Said to Be Planning Paterno’s Exit http://t.co/cfTPtvdQ
Penn state has to clean house here…….no other option.
Man, if he’s on his way out this whole thing just appears to be exactly what we think it is: the entire sports department burying their head in the sand about a guy running around torturing young men over a 20+ year time span. Good lord…
As usual here, those that know nothing speak the loudest.
Joe Paterno, when he first learned of the abuse, reported it at once.
The fact he is not speaking to the issue, is due to a directive from PS. The school is trying to protect themselves from huge law suits, and want a single response on the issue, which in this case is understandable.
Until all the players and facts are known, stop passing judgement on a great human being like Joe Paterno.
Spending 30M on a 26 year old outfielder after passing on Chapman would make little sense. They aren’t even remotely comparable assets. And hitters have even more uncertainty about how they’ll generalize than pitchers do.
Gourriel never wanted to come over. Besides him Chapman was probably the most intriguing talent that Cuba has recently produced.
I don’t see the Yankees signing this player unless they can get him for what it would cost them to sign a first round pick.
Chip – Try looking at it this way… In 59 more games (or if you will, 197 more plate appearances), Trumbo only managed to get on base 31 more times. That’s not just pretty bad, that’s really bad.
Cespedes could do leg lifts with a rack full of weights and Jeter and Núñez sitting on the machine.
That has to count for something, right?
Irreverent Discourse November 8th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
Chip – That’s only because you completely overvalue home runs compared to getting on base.
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Not at all. I think there’s merit to both, but I don’t think that the importance of each varies depending on the player’s role. In an ideal world I could care less if my leadoff hitter has any power at all if he gets on base near a 40% clip, but would I want that same guy batting 4th in the lineup? No. In that spot I will sacrifice OBP for power.
What I do value is playing time. As long as you’re performance is not actively hurting your team – which Trumbo’s wasn’t – then you are more valuable than a guy who didn’t play as much. Now, if we’re talking about the difference between having guy like Adam Dunn playing every day vs. Chipper Jones who was productive but hurt – then Jones would be the more valuable player.
hardwired7 November 8th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
Cespedes could do leg lifts with a rack full of weights and Jeter and Núñez sitting on the machine.
That has to count for something, right?
**********************
Welcome, ID.
Beltran in Boston I wouldn’t like, but he may fall apart, so there’s that…
If they like them, sign both Yu and Yeonis…it’s only $$$…then wait on Ravel/Mason/Heathcott era in a few…
Good one, folks.
I have to disagree on the death penalty Shame. Let Sandusky go to prison and face the terror, pain and shame he brought on those boys.
Shame Spencer November 8th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
upstate kate November 8th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Hell has a special place for child molesters…so does prison…
————————
The only cases where I legitimately support a blanket death sentence to anyone proven 100% guilty.
——————–
I would strip Sandusky (or any child rapist) naked, stitch raw meat to his body and lock him in a room with a pack of hungry, rabid dogs. If he lives through that, he can spend the rest of his life in prison.
New Post: Is the pitching market good for the Yankees?
ID –
correction to my last – I think the merit of each does vary depending on the player’s role.
Chip – It’s a matter of how you look at those players influence on the outcome of a game.
A batter can effect roughly 1/9th of a game (a little more than that depending on lineup slot and defensive position i’ m sure) being one of 9 hitters. Over 9 games a batter would have had the opportunity to influence one whole game out right.
A pitcher effects (roughly, obviously they don’t pitch complete games all the time) 1 out of every 5 games played. Done properly you would actually look at the number of innings a pitcher pitched compared to the number of innings his team played that season.
so realistically pitchers should be the MVP more often, but I suspect that’s why they introduced the Cy Young Award and a batter generally gets the MVP.
No one ever claimed the writers knew what they were doing
This gets down to the point I was trying to make earlier though, when you have players contributing different amounts of time to the equation, you best normalize it first before you start comparing them. If you compared a closer to a starter, the closer would have to be roughly 8-9 times as effective to have the same impact on a full season. A batter should have to be roughly twice as “effective” as a starting pitcher to be as valuable.
Until all the players and facts are known, stop passing judgement on a great human being like Joe Paterno.
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So we don’t pass judgement, but we refer to him as a great human being? Interesting.
Chip – I believe it has been proven before that a lineup full of .400 OBP slap hitters would outproduce a lineup full of .300 OBP sluggers. I’ll look around for it on my lunch break. Trumbo’s complete lack of walks is what really kills his value.
“Joe Paterno, when he first learned of the abuse, reported it at once.”
And then still allowed it to go on unchecked if the reports are true. This isn’t Jim Tressel covering up selling a jersey or whatever…
Very true Upstate, I’m being extreme of course since most of these guys are easy prey for guys that have been locked up for years and could use a good outlet for their frustrations. A friend of mine who spent some hard time in the clink tells me that child molesters and women beaters are usually roughed up on a regular basis. Sort of a weird way for justice to emerge but I’ll take it.
blake -
Sandusky was no longer working at Penn State, and Joe Pa reported the matter as soon as he was told about it. Was he suppose to confront Sandusky himself, have him beaten and thrown under a truck. Its like if you saw or was told of a crime at work, and reported it to the CEO, are you then expected to question him as to whether or not they reported it to the police, perhaps Paterno should have, or could have, but not knowing all the facts I’ll wait to make judgement.
Just remember what happened at Duke, and how the press condemmed the players and school, only to be proven wrong, after they nearly destroyed the players and damaged the school image.