Is the pitching market good for the Yankees?
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 08, 2011 
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The Yankees have their ace, which is good for them, because this free agent market doesn’t offer a no-doubt No. 1 starter. The Yankees need rotation depth — maybe a upgrade at No. 2 and a veteran alternative to round out the group — which is good, because this free agent market has a handful of those sort of pitchers.
In a way, this market works well for the Yankees. It doesn’t offer much, but it has pieces that fit the Yankees needs. Of course, a thin market has its downside. In writing about Mark Buehrle this morning, George King quoted an AL executive talking about the thin crop of free agent pitchers.
“They are in the right time in the right place,’’ the AL exec said. “What’s behind them isn’t much.’’
Brian Cashman always checks in with everyone, and he’s doing that now. Guys like Buehrle and Edwin Jackson — who fit just behind C.J. Wilson in the perceived pecking order — appear to be affordable options who could round out the rotation and add some depth should Ivan Nova stumble in his second year, or Phil Hughes get hurt again, or A.J. Burnett give the Yankees more of the same frustrations.
But in a world of supply and demand, does the limited supply mean the Yankees might have to overpay for these “affordable” rotation options?
Associated Press photo
I think it’s too early to tell whether this is a good or bad market. There are a few pitchers on the market who fit with what the Yankees need/could use, but given that there’s so little upper level talent it’s probable that those pitchers are going to command salaries that are grossly out of league with their actual talent.
For example, I would love to have Buehrle – but given that he’s probably the 2nd or 3rd best starter on the market he could get a 4 year deal at $12 – $15 mil per which is about 2 years and $10 mil more than he’s likely worth.
Joe Paterno, when he first learned of the abuse, reported it at once.
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Sorry, but “great” human beings don’t report child molestation to a school administrator.
Chip – Agreed, this may be one of those offseasons where over the long haul… not spending money is as effective as spending it. They can clearly still make the playoffs with the current pitching staff, getting into bad contracts because they lost a 5 game series is bad business.
“Joe Paterno, when he first learned of the abuse, reported it at once.”
And then still allowed it to go on unchecked if the reports are true. This isn’t Jim Tressel covering up selling a jersey or whatever…
My only worry if the Yankees get Buehrle is that White Sox Guy will come over to my desk and scream at me for 10 minutes
Buerle is the safest and probably most cost effective choice if he would come to NY…..but im not sure how much impact he would actually have…..how much more than Garcia for example.
Shame Spencer November 8th, 2011 at 12:46 pm
Very true Upstate, I’m being extreme of course since most of these guys are easy prey for guys that have been locked up for years and could use a good outlet for their frustrations. A friend of mine who spent some hard time in the clink tells me that child molesters and women beaters are usually roughed up on a regular basis. Sort of a weird way for justice to emerge but I’ll take it.. although Chips version would make for really good TV (in the same weird way How to Catch a Predator did).
Even thought the market is thin, it doesn’t feel thin.
I guess it’s because I don’t feel the urgency or the urge to chase any of these guys. The team is almost complete without any glaring holes.
If we get CJ or Yu. Great. If we don’t. Fine.
Joe Paterno will resign real soon as a result of this …..
Chip – Agreed, this may be one of those offseasons where over the long haul… not spending money is as effective as spending it
==============================
Not unlike the offseason following 2007. Probably less certainty about 2008 success then than there is about 2012 success now. They recognized the market was somewhat weak and stayed away, saving their resources for the following offseason when Sabathia and Teixeira were on the market. No need for the Yankees to chase this offseason.
I would be happy w/ Buerle as a stop gap until the kids are ready. I like the way he pitches quickly, no pacing around. Maybe we could watch some games that were over in less than 3 hours.
Chip – I left the last comment on our discussion in the previous thread, I don’t want to continue to drag it out here as no one else seems to care about our conversation
The Yankees on a whole pay a lot of money for supposed “assurances” that other teams get by quite happily without… mainly due to the organizational mantra of “win, or win” it is seen as a colossal failure any season they don’t reach the playoffs. This is reflected in the fan base’s un-quenchable desire to see every all-star in the league signed to the Yankees, and any home-grown or second tier player gets an extremely short leash as a result. Over the past few seasons the Yankee’s have exhibited patience with their more talented players can only grow to be a stronger team as a result. I would not be opposed to signing one or 2 of these overpaid FA’s, but getting outbid for their services should not be seen as detrimental to the teams chances in 2012.
Just reading an article on espn.com about one of the victim’s mother speaking out. It mentioned all the newspapers with Joe Paterno’s picture and headlines like “Shame”.
Paterno is getting paying for someone else’s alleged crimes.
But if he had any knowledge of it happening, then the events that happen subsequent to that fall under Penn State’s responsibility. And as the face of Penn State football, you would think that he would have wanted the matter resolved properly rather than swept under the rug for this many years.
If the allegations and Penn State’s knowledge of them are true. Then they are in deep you know what. Sandusky has an office on campus, is listed on their website as a professor emeritus, and was on campus as recently as last week.
Shame on the university.
blake -
I believe Sandusky was no longer working at Penn State, and Joe Pa reported the matter as soon as he was told about it. Was he suppose to confront Sandusky himself, have him beaten and thrown under a truck. Its like if you saw or was told of a crime at work, and reported it to the CEO, are you then expected to question him as to whether or not they reported it to the police, perhaps Paterno should have, or could have, but not knowing all the facts I’ll wait to make judgement.
Just remember what happened at Duke, and how the press condemmed the players and school, only to be proven wrong, after they nearly destroyed the players and damaged the school image.
LGY November 8th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
Joe Paterno, when he first learned of the abuse, reported it at once.
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Sorry, but “great” human beings don’t report child molestation to a school administrator.
==========
In all businesses there is a required hierarchy of who to report to for things of this nature. While I agree that he probably should have done follow through, accusations of molestation have a strict process people in positions like Paterno have to follow, and probably restricted any further action to be taken by him.
This is meant to help protect all parties involved, as there are false accusations as well as true ones. This is something set up by legal departments. In many organizations I’ve been involved with, you are required to report any such incidents to a specific person and are told that you are not to do any further reporting or investigating of this. The responsibility shifts to the person you reported it to.
What makes this so ugly is this involved multiple incidents, and it is an emotional issue. No matter that Paterno might have been following the rules he was told to, the emotional aspect screams for more to have been done. It could very well be that this mess will cause a change in the way things like this are reported, and to who you are supposed to report to. Not following the guide lines set up by the institution you are employed by can land you in legal trouble of your own. This is what needs to change.
The person who was responsible for official reporting of this probably did not do what they were supposed to do. There is a portion of the reporting process that goes to the authorities, and being that this still went on, it seems this was where things broke down. Paterno was likely instructed that once he reported it, it was out of his hands. They are told it goes to investigation and the authorities are the ones to handle things. They are not supposed to interfere or do their own investigation as it could impact the investigation.
And whoever said this is not Jim Tressel covering for players selling jerseys has it correct. This isn’t about recruiting violations, compliance issues, or even 18 year old recruits. The alleged victims were very young. Penn State should not have had football camps with kids that age using those particular facilities. That’s common sense.
I am reserving judgement on Paterno until all the facts are out.
This is nothing like what happened at Duke. These charges went before a Grand Jury, and the Grand Jury was lied to. Someone yesterday posted a link to the Grand Jury testimony.
Kim Jones may get lots of national attention on this PSU story because she has an in with the Paterno family.
Kim Jones was visably upset yesterday and had a very stressful look on her face.
ScottPaternoScott Paterno
Very important distinction – Pres. Spanier cancelled the press conference not Joe.
pat-I just saw a clip of Kim’s interview, but she looked pretty upset
I don’t blame Joe Pat for something someone else did… but this guy was on campus as of last week. What we’re seeing is a school that relies heavily on the success of their sports program covering their a$$es to protect their wallet$…. and now its hit the fan. But make no mistake about it, this is driven by dollars and cents.
JimmyTraina Kim Jones reporting that Joe Paterno told his team yesterday he knew nothing about Sandusky’s actions & team should focus on Nebraska.
kim jones is pretty hot
seriously cant belive this penn st story, its sickening
“Was he suppose to confront Sandusky himself,”
Absolutely ….if he knew this was going then he should have taken it upon himself as the face if the university (and a human being) to see that the acts had stopped and justice was done……as should have anybody else with knowledge of the situation.
upstate kate -
Those that failed to report the matter, and those that lied about it, will pay dearly.
My point is, don’t lump the entire school, and all those involved in the football program into one group, as if they are all guilty by association.
Those that question Joe Paterno, and the nature of the man, do not know him, or of him.
Got to go, later folks.
M
I live in a town that has 2 colleges. They have sports camps for kids all the time, especially during the summer. It provides income for the colleges and gives the kids a way to improve their athletic skills (and keep busy). I imagine many colleges do the same.
I think half the problem here is that people are doubtful as to whether or not Joe Pat actually reported the incident once was made aware of the issue…. when the stories seem to stem back over a decade, its not surprising people have doubts about that.
Yogi,
All that is probably true…..but this would be like the president of a company learning of an incident like this happening on company grounds and then reporting it to HR and then doing nothing else when no.action is taken. We don’t know the specifics of what happened …..and we haven’t heard Paterno’s side yet ……but this doesn’t reflect well on him or anybody on that athletic department.
(Before I get yelled at I’m not saying he definitely did sit on this information. Sexual predators can find ways to hide in plain sight. But I don’t think doubting it makes anyone overly judgmental.)
pat November 8th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
Kim Jones may get lots of national attention on this PSU story because she has an in with the Paterno family.
————————————————————————————————————————-
She should have an in. Paterno mistook her for one of his linebackers.
Shame-exactly right @ 1:23
blake -
One last comment before I go. You’re comment indicates you know very little of how these matters are handled in both the corporate world, as well as on university campuses. There is a set chain of command and rules setup that are required to be followed. If youy were told of such an issue at work, then in your way of thinking you would go up to the person and confront them, and if you were wrong, you’d be the one fired.
Have a great day, and I hope you are never accused of a crime, and deemed guilty without a chance to be heard. Paterno did what was expected of him, yet you feel its right to condemn him as if he’s guilty of wrong doing – must be a nice view from that mountain you sit on.
blake November 8th, 2011 at 1:20 pm
“Was he suppose to confront Sandusky himself,”
Absolutely ….if he knew this was going then he should have taken it upon himself as the face if the university (and a human being) to see that the acts had stopped and justice was done……as should have anybody else with knowledge of the situation.
=======
The trouble is every organization has a very specific chain of command that is designed to prevent this very thing. Be it abuse cases, molestation, you are legally required to report it in a very specific manner to a designated position in your organization, that is all.
The system has flaws as demonstrated by this very thing. The authorities do the investigation. By interfering with the process it might jeopardize the investigation, which is why it is set up as it is.
It is supposed to protect the abused as well as the accused till the authorities have something they can act on. It seems in this case someone didn’t do what they were supposed to do. It doesn’t mean that Paterno did wrong either. If he reported it, that was all he was supposed to do.
Youth protection is very specific about what you are to do in these cases. In Paterno’s position, he seems to have done exactly what he was supposed to. That also limited what he could do, however repugnant it seems now.
Agreed Big Al… in the corporate world once you follow procedure and tell your superior about something… your hands are generally washed clean of responsibility. Sticking your neck out, going over your superiors and “handling things yourself” is the quickest way to lose your job.
I think the point Big Al is missing is that this has nothing to do with assuming the guilt of Joe Pat specifically. It is the entire program, top to bottom. These stories date back decades. Theoretically, one would assume people knew (based on the fact that some actually reported the incidents we need not assume, we have facts) it was going on. Joe Pat, as the face of the entire PSU sports department, has a lot more clout than a guy like blake may have pencil pushing in corporate America. If I’m the face of an entire sports department and I find out a guy that I’ve been working with for 2 decades is touching little kids, I make sure he’s gone immediately if for no other reason than self preservation.
Heck, they could’ve even given him a nice paid suspension until the legal system sorted it out…
Curley and Schultz are the ones who failed to follow up on the report and the ones who lied to the Grand Jury.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/.....ntment.pdf
sick stuff…
“In Paterno’s position, he seems to have done exactly what he was supposed to.”
This may be true but until there is some legitimate documentation released proving this is the case then I can’t blame the public for being doubtful… again, this is decades of accused abuse we’re talking about, not a one-off incident. My follow ups to people stating he reported it would be “when?” as in specifically what year. (If this has been in any related article and I’ve missed it please let me know). We keep hearing “immediately reported it” once he was “made aware”… so when exactly was he made aware? According to others who did report these incidents with more clear time-tables, they reported them years ago.
Regardless of what I just said… Paterno’s only mistake was not firing the man immediately and THEN worrying about it being handled legally by his superiors. His indifference and the continued employment of Sandusky looks really bad and will probably cause Paterno to lose his job now… it’s a shame certainly, but there is no reason to vilify the man. Keep your hatred and focus on the man responsible for his actions. This is akin to the lawsuit going after the Wilpons because they “should have known” madoff was doing something illegal. Really? Our legal system requires its participants to be mind readers now?
GB
Be nice. When it comes to the who’s who of PSU football she’s in the know because of her history there.
Joe Paterno is Penn State. He runs State College.
This is not a man that has to worry about losing his job because he made sure a child molester who spent a huge amount of his time around kids was reported to the police.
This is also someone who knows everything that goes on at that campus. There’s no way the campus police conducted their investigation and Paterno was left in the dark.
Legally, he did his duty.
But he has to live the rest of his life knowing he could have stopped this horrible situation years ago.
Let’s be honest here, Paterno is 84 and probably hasn’t known “everything that’s going on” in at least 10 years.
LGY is exactly right.
People can talk about “chain of command” all they want but the bottom line is that while there might be a chain of command in place for most people that doesn’t apply to a guy like Paterno (or any other entrenched coach at a big time program). He essentially runs the college – to hide behind chain of command now would be laughable if it wasn’t so disgusting.
Irreverent Discourse November 8th, 2011 at 1:43 pm
ID, Sandusky stopped being a Coach in 1999. He was no longer employed or affiliated with the school/team and therefore could not be fired.
Big Al,
I really don’t think so bud. Yes there is a chain of command and yes Paterno initially did the right thing…..that’s not the issue. The issue is that whenever nothing was done about it he swept it under the rug. The “chain of command” stuff is nonsense and is searching for a justification …..Paterno is the most powerful person in the room there and it was his program.
“Let’s be honest here, Paterno is 84 and probably hasn’t known “everything that’s going on” in at least 10 years.”
This happened over 10 years ago.
I do respect the fact that we don’t know the full details of the situation.. but with stuff like this that’s what lends itself to doubt about whether or not due diligence was truly done.
“Have a great day, and I hope you are never accused of a crime, and deemed guilty without a chance to be heard. Paterno did what was expected of him, yet you feel its right to condemn him as if he’s guilty of wrong doing – must be a nice view from that mountain you sit on.”
Nobody has accused Paterno of a crime…..nice try though.
One of the things I find wrong with our Corporate world (which includes Academia) is that everything that happens at work or on campus gets filtered thru the Bureaucracy.
There is a direct protocol to follow. JoPa was told that something happened concerning Sandusky in 2002 (over 2 years after Sandusky was replaced on the PSU team as a coach.) He gave the Grad Student who witnessed something a forum and immediately escallated it up to school authorities. He did his job. I am sure this wasn’t the only thing that happened during JoPa’s reign that was escallated. He did his job. Others did not & are being prosecuted for not doing their job.
JoPa going to the police over something that someone else saw is a bit of a stretch. The Grad Student or the university should have done so. One was a direct witness 7 the other has direct responsibility of what happens on University property.
Paterno did his job initially …..but there is a reason that this has been kept quiet for so long and its because that entire athletic department allowed it to be. Joe Paterno is the most prominent figure in that athletic department……..
RayVT – That’s what I thought, and I find no fault with anything Paterno did or did not do since that is the case.
I don’t follow up on all the employees that quit or get fired years later because they “might still be doing something wrong”. They are gone and they are out of my mind. Paterno did what he should have and everyone above him in the food chain either purposely dropped the ball to not stain the college or didn’t think it was a serious allegation.. either way they will all be losing their jobs due to their inaction.
Paterno does not deserve to lose his unless they can prove that he knew this was going on while the man was still in his employ.
Ask yourself this:
What if it were your 10-year old son or grandson in that shower with a middle aged man? That’s the question that Paterno, McQueary, and everyone in the chain of command who knew about it should’ve asked themselves.
It was a major moral failure.
RayVT November 8th, 2011 at 1:50 pm
Irreverent Discourse November 8th, 2011 at 1:43 pm
ID, Sandusky stopped being a Coach in 1999. He was no longer employed or affiliated with the school/team and therefore could not be fired.
—————–
The University still granted him access to all facilities, he had an office, parking pass, computer access…they could have revoked all of that in addition to reporting him to the cops.
Let’s solve the problem of whether or not Paterno knew anything first.
He’s saying he knew nothing of it.
The grad assistant says otherwise. Many people are assuming this went up the chain of command, but one of the key links, Paterno, is claiming he has no knowledge of it.
The time period is very long in this instance, but the timeline will be key to the whole thing of who knew what and when they knew it.
Bottom line, is the accusations came out 3 years ago. The camps stopped, but it seems like everything else was business as usual as far as Sandusky’s presence on campus.
kate,
I understand what you are saying. I’m thinking day camps are better than overnight camps for kids that age.
blake November 8th, 2011 at 2:03 pm
Maybe there is something, but JoPa has been highly ethical in all his dealings to date. Delegating what is not his work to someone responsible has been his life. There are procedures, protocol and laws in place for those doing the reviews. Remember, Sandusky was no longer involved in the PSU football program in 2002 when JoPa supposedly found out.
Sometimes you have to trust folks will do the right thing. It wasn’t JoPa’s job to follow up & even if he did who knows what they told him. He did his part! He trusted that others would too & I’m sure he had no idea they wouldn’t!
Chip – Exactly. Those steps should have been immediately taken by Paterno’s superiors. This is not his responsibility as the head coach of the football team (he hold no other title that i can find, and nothing in the “athletic department”).
His bosses tried to cover it up, and his bosses will now lose their jobs for it. Paterno is a messenger in this situation, and not in a position to make accusations to the police as neither the accuser or the employer.
Again this isn’t a recruiting violation or a student athlete selling a jersey…….seems to me a lot of folks were wrong here and negligent……back to baseball
“There are procedures, protocol and laws in place for those doing the reviews. Remember, Sandusky was no longer involved in the PSU football program in 2002 when JoPa supposedly found out”
He was still around campus no?
Chip November 8th, 2011 at 2:10 pm
I am not a pro-PSU person! I do however think JoPa did nothing wrong. The school supposedly revoked Sandusky’s access to the workout facilities & informed the company he worked for.
I think the school should & will be sued for multiple millions. They did not due their due dilligence & did not report it to proper authorities.
How many complaints, issues, fights, assaults, crimes, drugs, rapes, etc that Paterno had to address as a Coach during his tenure at PSU? I am sure there were a significant amount of them. His job is to make sure the proper school authorities are informed to evaluate. If the school or authorities needed more info from him they would have gotten it. As far as JoPa goes it would be the end of it unless he specifically witnessed something himself.
Talk of JoPa are attempts to distract from the real issue. PSU had a child molester & they protected him.
Nobody is saying that Joe Paterno committed a crime here…..did he do everything possible to ensure that children weren’t still being harmed and that the man responsible was brought to justice?…….or did he pass the buck in and forget about it? This isn’t a legal question…..its a ethical one. Im done with the subject as of now though.
Okay, reading the grand jury presentation (very difficult to read through), but under victim 2, it says that Joseph V. Paterno testified that he received the report from the grad assistant at his Paterno’s home the day after the incident occured. Paterno then called Curley.
This happened in 2002.
blake November 8th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
“There are procedures, protocol and laws in place for those doing the reviews. Remember, Sandusky was no longer involved in the PSU football program in 2002 when JoPa supposedly found out”
He was still around campus no?
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Yes. That’s the problem.
Also.. m is spot on with the time-table being crucial here.
And I can’t stress this enough… If I’m Joe Pat, I make sure that guy is off campus forever just to protect myself (from exactly what he’s being exposed to right now). That’s just good common sense in the name of self preservation for a public figure. PR 101.
Irreverent Discourse November 8th, 2011 at 2:13 pm
Chip – Exactly. Those steps should have been immediately taken by Paterno’s superiors. This is not his responsibility as the head coach of the football team (he hold no other title that i can find, and nothing in the “athletic department”).
His bosses tried to cover it up, and his bosses will now lose their jobs for it. Paterno is a messenger in this situation, and not in a position to make accusations to the police as neither the accuser or the employer
—————
By letter of the law you are correct – however we’re all adults here – short of the board of trustees, Joe Paterno easily has the most authority on that campus up to and including the school president. I assure you that 99.9% of the time Schultz and Curley didn’t do anything without checking with Paterno first.
There is a show on ABC called What Would You Do that records people in a situation where actors stage something negative happening to see if a stranger will come to their aid.
Way too many people walk by without doing anything and it usually ends up being a mom who steps in and confronts someone. All those people probably thought they would act on someone elses behalf but many didn’t when the time to act was in front of them.
“Way too many people walk by without doing anything and it usually ends up being a mom who steps in and confronts someone”
That I can believe.
Jose Reyes seems to have two suitors right now – He’s meeting with the Marlins and has been targeted by the Brewers now that they don’t believe they’ll have a chance at signing Prince.
Now consider this happens to you. Someone comes up to you and says a long time employee of yours who you have been good friends with for 10-20 years is touching little kids. You have had no reason to suspect this for the duration of your friendship.
How quickly do you go throw that person under the bus? Make sure that he’s “not on campus”? Or do you report it to your superior and let the legal process handle it and assume the rest is none of your business (because, well… it isn’t)?
From SI: Andy Staples’ take on the JoPa stituation….
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....=hp_t11_a1
blake November 8th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
Did anyone else read the indictment? JoPa testified that the Grad Asst came to his house on Saturday (Sandusky seen sexually assaulting a 10 yr old boy on Friday night) I think with his father. JoPa arranged a meeting with his AD & Grad Asst the very next day to discuss this issue. 1½ weeks later the school’s Sr VP of Fin & Bus met with Grad Asst & told him that they would look into it & take appropriate actions. BTW, JoPa was not in any other meetings except his Sat meeting.
pat,
I hate that show. It recreates some terrible scenarios. Like the lady who locked the baby in the car?
But you’re right.
If you read the grand jury presentation, the grad asst was very upset when he saw the incident at 9:30 on Friday night. He called his dad who told him to come home. Then the next day he went to Paterno.
It’s easy now to say that he should have called the police. But at the time, he probably panicked and saw his future flash before his eyes. At least he told someone.
But looking back, he probably should have called the police. Because if what he says he saw actually occurred, then there would have been evidence of it.
Looks to me like the RedSox are running out of suitors for their managerial vacancy… how long until they go crawling back to Terry? Will it happen before he decides to coach the Cubs/Cardinals instead?
Irreverent Discourse November 8th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Now consider this happens to you. Someone comes up to you and says a long time employee of yours who you have been good friends with for 10-20 years is touching little kids. You have had no reason to suspect this for the duration of your friendship.
How quickly do you go throw that person under the bus? Make sure that he’s “not on campus”? Or do you report it to your superior and let the legal process handle it and assume the rest is none of your business (because, well… it isn’t)?
————–
You’re assuming that this was the first time Paterno heard about this. According to the Grand Jury report the campus police released a 30 page report on an investigation into Sandusky in 1998 – Sandusky steps down in 1999. You mean to tell me that the head coach, the most powerful man on campus, who lives on that campus year round, didn’t know what the report was about and had no influence at all in Sandusky stepping down?
Even if Paterno were to say that he didn’t know the extent of Sandusky’s evil – I would chalk that up more to willful blindness than excusable ignorance.
Irreverent Discourse November 8th, 2011 at 2:28 pm
Looks to me like the RedSox are running out of suitors for their managerial vacancy… how long until they go crawling back to Terry? Will it happen before he decides to coach the Cubs/Cardinals instead?
————-
My guess is that they give it to Dale Sveum
The other thing I don’t get is how the Grad Assistant ran out of the room rather than trying to help the child. He should be facing charges as well.
This is the problem when people appoint others to the position of God.
These myths never are what the fantasy appears to be.
People’s own emptiness require a mythical being to fill voids in their own lives and after all
these are men not gods.
Joe had a moral responsibility and now the idolaters will see him for what he really was, not what they needed him to be.
The most hilarious part is that the Cubs and the Red Sox are chasing the same candidates.
Mike Maddux pulled out of the Sox interview, but kept his Cubs one. Was he being considered for the manager’s position? If so, that’s amazing.
I doubt they go back to Francona. He probably doesn’t even take their calls.
And seriously, who wants to take the job which right now is basically cleaning up last year’s mess?
Chip November 8th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Remember Sandusky had retired & was no longer employed at PSU. It served nothing to JoPa to try & protect Sandusky then. Sandusky’s keys to locker room were taken away. The rest is up to legal. The legal folks/AD/Bus VP decided to drop things. 2nd Mile who employed Sandusky was notified as well.
Ray,
Yea….we already know that…..we know he reported it to his AD who then apparently did nothing. Look…..Paterno is taking all the heat for this and that’s probably not fair as he did report it and obviously he’s not the one that committed the alleged atrocities …..but I do think its fair to be critical of him if he had knowledge of what happened and also saw that nothing was being done about it. Its just a bad situation all the way around.
blake…it was obviously a conspiracy, a coverup. How stupid to think it would never get out. By its nature they gambled on the kid(s) keeping their mouths shut forever…it never works, truth always comes out. These are icons? How empty are peoples lives that they create false idols?
Joe Pa is as guilty as any of them.
m November 8th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
The most hilarious part is that the Cubs and the Red Sox are chasing the same candidates.
Mike Maddux pulled out of the Sox interview, but kept his Cubs one. Was he being considered for the manager’s position? If so, that’s amazing.
I doubt they go back to Francona. He probably doesn’t even take their calls.
And seriously, who wants to take the job which right now is basically cleaning up last year’s mess?
——————–
Maddux pulled out of the Red Sox race because he wanted to stay closer to his home in Texas due to health issues within his family.
Makes sense that the Cubs and Red Sox would be looking at the same guys – my guess is that before the Cubs thing came up Theo and Cherrington had discussed candidates who would replace Francona.
The sad part is that Sandusky adopted several children & was a foster parent too to many over the years.
It is quite a bit easier to look back in hind sight over a situation than it is on the day to day. Sandusky outwardly did a lot of good things. Like most perverts, they know the weak ones to select & perpetrate. How many men do you know over the years that you had questions about. Perhaps they were scout leaders, team youth coaches, even teachers that perhaps seemed a bit extra chummy. Some were perhaps evil, while most probably weren’t.
I heard on xm this am that Maddux is very happy in TX. They said it was the first time that his family all lived in the same state.
RayVT November 8th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
Chip November 8th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Remember Sandusky had retired & was no longer employed at PSU. It served nothing to JoPa to try & protect Sandusky then. Sandusky’s keys to locker room were taken away. The rest is up to legal. The legal folks/AD/Bus VP decided to drop things. 2nd Mile who employed Sandusky was notified as well.
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Misplaced loyalty to protecting a friend vs. protecting little kids – that’s the only thing I can think Paterno had on his mind.
I also read that Maddux was finally happy his 2 girls and wife were living in the same state. And that Boston was too far.
But if he took the Chicago job, he’d still be living in a different state? And still be on the road for half the season? Hmmm.
m
I love that show. Years of bartending emboldened me to confront obnoxious people in public.
I have been known to “embarrass” my kids by asking a stranger to behave better or watch their language somewhere children are present.
You’re assuming that this was the first time Paterno heard about this.
Chip – I assume that because that is the only story on the table. Innocent until proven guilty, remember? Until someone proves otherwise you are just “projecting suspicion” and fueling the media hype of this story. Isn’t this similar to the conversation we had a few hours ago about projections vs reality?
blake November 8th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
Understand. I imagine, JoPa thought something was going on in 1998 & 1999 when he let Sandusky go. Proving something would be difficult w/o witnesses.
2002 was a while later. I think it was 2005 or 2006 when legal research & evidence was started to be added to the 1998 file.
Chip
I hate to see a good man (JoPa) be condemned over what a predator (Sandusky) did. Suspecting someone may have happened & may have been the reason JoPa told Sandusky that Sandusky would never be the HC at PSU. Probably fired him, & who knows what else. Proof is hard to come by. It seems like proof is there now at least against Sandusky.
If JoPa did anything to aid or protect Sandusky, then it will come out.
there’s a lot of arrogance going on. and not only at penn state.
some people seem to delight in being holier than thou. especially with imcomplete information.
but that’s ok. moral outrage is always a good thing.
we haven’t learned anything from our history. we must burn more witches at the stake.
all with the best of intentions of course. because we are never, ever wrong.
it’s so nice to be young and angry, for our cause is just.
Ray,
Understood. The weather in Charlotte as nice as here?
unless, of course, it is I who is being accused.
then i demand my right to be innocent until proven guilty, with the best lawyers i can buy.
I wonder if Cherington is ready to move on to Plan B: work out a separate deal w/Mike Maddux’s mustache?
Good managerial candidates are pretty scarce, and that thing is all kinds of awesome.
blake November 8th, 2011 at 2:53 pm
The weather is wonderful here today. Mid 70′s & sunny! Where are you again? FL?
Joe,
Ditto. Sandusky has been indicted and will, I assume, stand trial. Paterno has not been indicted, or implicated in any way, yet he is being tarred and feathered. Hang him!
Joe from Long Island November 8th, 2011 at 2:53 pm
unless, of course, it is I who is being accused.
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Could we go with the, ‘unless, of course, it is my kid who is being molested’ approach?
Some people thought Nixon was innocent.
It’s ok to go with your gut, in Joe Pa’s case, he knew, bottom line.
How many more kids got hurt because he kept his mouth shut is on him.
Selena Roberts is on top of the Paterno story. She’ll get it straightened out.
Joe,
Good afternoon. While I see your point……I think the subject is a sensitive one to a lot of people …..and the information suggests that some of the criticism might be fair. I did say “might be” as the information is incomplete…..but based on what we do know its fair to suggest that a lot of folks were negligent and may have allowed something awful to continue longer than it should have.
I wonder if Maddux was to land the Cubbie job would he bring in his brother to be the pitching coach ???? Doc Joe….There are times when you make just too much sense…….
I am saving my moral outrage for Sandusky, who committed the crime and Curley and Shultz, who knew about the crime and lied to the Grand Jury.
Ray,
TN….beautiful.
and what a shame for the current and past Penn State students/faculty/coaches to be associated w/ this
That report of the grand jury’s findings is very disturbing.
I wonder if Joe would have responded any differently to the grad assistant’s report if it had been Joe’s grandson that the grad assistant saw in the shower with Sandusky?
RayVT November 8th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
Chip
I hate to see a good man (JoPa) be condemned over what a predator (Sandusky) did. Suspecting someone may have happened & may have been the reason JoPa told Sandusky that Sandusky would never be the HC at PSU. Probably fired him, & who knows what else. Proof is hard to come by. It seems like proof is there now at least against Sandusky.
If JoPa did anything to aid or protect Sandusky, then it will come out.
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I’m not saying Paterno did anything illegal. But ask yourself this – if the assistant had come to Paterno and said exactly the same thing that he did but that the kid he saw Sandusky in the shower with was Paterno’s grandson – do you think Joe would have just passed the info up to his “superiors” and let it go at that or would he have followed up? Called the police? Made sure that measures were taken?
Innocent kids need protectors – Paterno, Penn State – they all failed miserably in this responsibility and why? to protect the institution.
mick – some people also believed the duke kids were guilty.
it’s never OK to go with your gut… ever. especially when people’s livelihood is at stake.
placing blame or accusations before knowing the facts only makes you a fool. a proud fool being foolish in public, no less. fools deserve to be proven fools, so if that is your choice… keep blaming Paterno for things he didn’t have anything to do with.
am saving my moral outrage for Sandusky, who committed the crime and Curley and Shultz, who knew about the crime and lied to the Grand Jury.
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Joe Pa knew.
upstate kate November 8th, 2011 at 3:04 pm
I am saving my moral outrage for Sandusky, who committed the crime and Curley and Shultz, who knew about the crime and lied to the Grand Jury.
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I have more than enough outrage to go around – if through inaction you enable a predator to continue raping and torturing children then to me you are no better than the predator.
No one is hanging Joe Pat. My all means the man will never stand trial of any sort or be punished in any way, shape or form. And I don’t know that anyone on here is claiming he should be. I don’t think it makes anyone some moral soldier to have an opinion on it though.
If I see a kid getting raped by anyone, I’m calling the cops. That goes for everyone involved from the grad assistant to the President of the University. I’m not gonna sit here saying they should all be prosecuted… but I don’t think anyone who agrees should be chastised for being just a little outraged.
Pat M.,
I read somewhere last night that Greg Maddux wasn’t interested in being the Cubs pitching coach at this time. Not sure where the info came from other than out of Chicago.
… but I don’t think anyone who agrees should be chastised for being just a little outraged.
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Amen.
Those who accuse others of being “holier-than-thou” should take a look in their mirror.
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Mick and Chip
if that is true, then I will add JoPa to my moral outrage, but we don’t really know that
You can play the “whatif it was his/hers/my kid” game all day, but that’s not what happened.
It’s been proven time and time again that NO ONE is above acting in their own self interests. No one has the right to accuse Paterno’s “immoral inaction” because no one can say for certain they would have handled it better.
Paterno didn’t see it. all he got was somebody’s word for it that something happened. He reported it to the people he answers to. How far do you think it goes if it’s second or third hand information? It would never be allowed in court.
Whether it could be “handled better” by anyone is not the issue.
But you are right about one thing. Joe Pa prolly acted in his own self interest.
Maybe he is hiding other skeletons.
Paterno didn’t see it. all he got was somebody’s word for it that something happened. He reported it to the people he answers to. How far do you think it goes if it’s second or third hand information? It would never be allowed in court.
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He could have broken the case wide open.
He decided not to which makes him an accomplice.
Chip November 8th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
Understand Chip.