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Even the trade market running dry for the Yankees

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 01, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Last December, I looked back at the previous year of Yankees trades. There had been nine of them in a 12-month span — a little less than 12 months, actually — from Brian Bruney being shipped to the Nationals in December of 2009 to Juan Miranda being traded to the Diamondbacks in November of 2010.

In those 12 months, there were big trades for Curtis Granderson and Javier Vazquez, small trades for Greg Golson and a Rule 5 pick, and deadline deals for Kerry Wood and Lance Berkman.

So what kind of trades have the Yankees made in these past 12 months?

February 2, 2011
RHP Adam Olbrychowski to the Nationals for OF Justin Maxwell

March 25, 2011
RHP Sergio Mitre to the Brewers for OF Chris Dickerson

That’s it.

Unless you count the June move to purchase Mitre back from Milwaukee, the Yankees have gone eight full months without making a deal. Brian Cashman said during the GM Meetings that he’s not opposed to making trades — and he’s obviously proven that in the past — but Cashman said it’s been “easy to stand down” based on asking prices.

One interesting note from Tyler Kepner’s story in the Times earlier this week:

Cashman said he has found newer general managers to be unrealistic, asking far too much in trade talks than he is prepared to give.

No general manager, young or old, wants to be on the losing end of a trade. For now, it seems that Cashman is willing to wait for deals that make sense. Making a trade for the sake of making a trade never helped anyone, and Cashman’s been around long enough to stay calm on the trigger.

Associated Press photo

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108 Responses to “Even the trade market running dry for the Yankees”

  1. blake December 1st, 2011 at 9:01 am

    I see the comparisons of CJ Wilson to AJ Burnett a lot….and I get that…..they figure to get similar type contracts and they both have warts or undesirable traits that make them risks.

    However to be fair……AJ has never had a season anywhere close to as good as Wilson’s 2011…..and certainly has never done it two years in a row like that. AJs best year with regards to ERA + was 122 years ago with the Marlins and that’s the only time he’s ever been over 120. Wilson was at 134 in 2010 and 152 in 2011 (which was better than Sabathia’s actually). I think how he’s pitched in that ballpark is undervalued.

  2. blake December 1st, 2011 at 9:02 am

    “In those 12 months, there were big trades for Curtis Granderson and Javier Vazquez”

    Both came out of nowhere without a hint of speculation……doesn’t mean a trade will happen…….but things being quite doesn’t mean one wont either.

  3. Yazman December 1st, 2011 at 9:05 am

    One “issue” may be our improved farm.

    Now the Yanks (rightly) expect much more from a top-3 (or top-5 or 10) Yankees prospect than when our system was weaker.

  4. MTU December 1st, 2011 at 9:11 am

    Blake-

    “Time is on our side” said one famous rock band.

    Even out here in the desert we can’t squeeze water out of a rock.

    ;)

  5. Villa Nova-Ya December 1st, 2011 at 9:17 am

    New CBA seems to make it likely that bigger market teams will have a more and more difficult time replenishing their farm systems. So, that makes being prudent in trading away your assets more important, too.

  6. blake December 1st, 2011 at 9:17 am

    MTU,

    You ever seen that Denzel Washington movie “Fallen”? Time is on my side….yes it is.

    I agree…..they don’t have to do anything….but I think Cash is gonna add a starter this winter….

  7. blake December 1st, 2011 at 9:19 am

    SI_JonHeyman 50 mins Jorge posada inquired w/ #mets about job so he’s at least considering playing. Mets looking for defensive backstop tho, so no

  8. MTU December 1st, 2011 at 9:20 am

    Blake-

    Yup. Good movie. I like Denzel.

    Never let the Devil touch you.

    ;)

  9. blake December 1st, 2011 at 9:22 am

    MTU,
    Its an underrated movie……the ending is great

  10. MTU December 1st, 2011 at 9:24 am

    Blake-

    CAT-a-strophic ending.

    :)

  11. blake December 1st, 2011 at 9:26 am

    “CAT-a-strophic ending”

    Nice!

  12. Erin December 1st, 2011 at 9:26 am

    The Mets?? New York or nothing for Jorge? ;)

  13. Yankee Trader December 1st, 2011 at 9:26 am

    Has Edgar Reese come back? Are we going to see sequels like the Jason movies?

  14. Yankee Trader December 1st, 2011 at 9:27 am

    I think it would be great if Posada plays for the Mets.

  15. MTU December 1st, 2011 at 9:29 am

    Teams who should be active players this OS :

    Marlins
    Cubs
    Sux
    WS
    Reds
    Giants
    Mariners
    Angels
    O’s
    A’s
    Braves
    Astros

    Others ?

  16. dogface December 1st, 2011 at 9:30 am

    SI_JonHeyman 50 mins Jorge posada inquired w/ #mets about job so he’s at least considering playing. Mets looking for defensive backstop tho, so no

    ====================

    This makes me a little sad.

  17. MTU December 1st, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Twins too. Almost forgot them

  18. blake December 1st, 2011 at 9:34 am

    Im still waiting for Kenny Williams to fall out of bed one morning ready to deal…..Cash probably is as well.

  19. MTU December 1st, 2011 at 9:37 am

    Blake-

    No reason for Cashman not wait a while to see if prices drop.

    And my guess is he will.

    That ain’t sexy but it seems to be the reality.

  20. pat December 1st, 2011 at 9:46 am

    “I think it would be great if Posada plays for the Mets.”

    Doesn’t sound like the Mets think it would be great.

    Gossip Break: Grandy is a busy guy this week. Book signings, talk show appearances and then flying to Miami to stay at Alex’s house tonight before continuing on to Panama to play in a softball game with Derek, Jorge, CC, Robbie and Andruw Jones this weekend.

  21. Yankee Trader December 1st, 2011 at 9:46 am

    Brewers

  22. MTU December 1st, 2011 at 9:52 am

    Thanks YT.

    Them too.

    Yankees likely to be in the least active group ?

    They do need to move some of their secondary pieces soon or risk losing them.

  23. Erin December 1st, 2011 at 9:52 am

    pat-too bad they’re not all staying at Alex’s tonight. Yankee slumber party! ;)

  24. austinmac December 1st, 2011 at 9:53 am

    The Chicago Tribune(I am always scouring for news)reiterated Floyd or Danks is on the market, but the article said Banuelos, Gardner and Romine for Danks. No wonder the trade market is dry. The article noted how the Yankees fleeced the Sox in their last trade, and Williams better not let that happen again.

  25. blake December 1st, 2011 at 9:55 am

    “but the article said Banuelos, Gardner and Romine for Danks.”

    Lol….good luck with that.

  26. Yankee Trader December 1st, 2011 at 9:55 am

    Which good young players[non arb eligible] do the Yankees have to offer, that played enough in the bigs and were not just September call-ups? Noesi, Nunez, Nova. Others?

    Thee reason I’m mentioning this, is these might be the players other teams are asking for, when told Montero Banuelos and Betances are untouchable, when Cashman is trying to land a quality starting pitcher.

    There is currently no good replacement for Nunez.
    Nova isn’t going to be traded.
    When Cashman mentioned that Noesi has been hitting 98 on the radar gun this winter, with control, I feel he’s on the doorstep to be a quality starter.

  27. MTU December 1st, 2011 at 9:58 am

    Mac-

    Good luck with those demands Kenny.

    What a hoot.

    Around my way, we call it a reverse fleece. Not the Yankees but the teams dealing with them.

    No more Yankee tax either.

    ;)

  28. MTU December 1st, 2011 at 10:01 am

    YT-

    I like Noesi a lot but he might be an excellent trade chip especially when combined with a certain catcher.

    ;)

  29. pat December 1st, 2011 at 10:01 am

    Erin

    Curtis only mentioned a friend from home going with him. :sad:

    He did invite the talk show host to go though saying Alex has the room and probably wouldn’t mind. :wink:

  30. Yankee Trader December 1st, 2011 at 10:02 am

    austinmac-

    Gardner would be their replacement for Juan Pierre.

    I would consider that trade, subbing Betances for Banuelos, only for a few select pitchers, like Matt Cain if an extension was worked out.

    Any others where Betances, Gardner, and Romine would be a match for a number 2, and I don’t consider Gonzalez,Garza, Danks, Floyd as #2′s.

  31. Yankee Trader December 1st, 2011 at 10:04 am

    Ozzie wanted Swisher gone. Blame it on him, Kenny, not the Yankees for taking what was then a .220 or so hitter off their hands.

  32. Erin December 1st, 2011 at 10:06 am

    pat December 1st, 2011 at 10:01 am

    He did invite the talk show host to go though saying Alex has the room and probably wouldn?t mind.

    ********************

    :)

  33. JCPD December 1st, 2011 at 10:08 am

    Morning MTU, this one’s for you……

    https://picasaweb.google.com/105244848673673377679/AGoodDayOff?authkey=Gv1sRgCLGVtN_kvqP4Ig

    Cash is going to find a pitcher, I just have no clue as to who. Not even a guess

  34. Yankee Trader December 1st, 2011 at 10:08 am

    My bad. Swisher hit .219 with a .332 OB% in 2008, his only year with the WS. The WS were lucky they got something for him, especially after his manager bad mouthed him.

  35. MTU December 1st, 2011 at 10:12 am

    YT-

    I think prices need to drop before Cashman can move ahead.

    Do you think Wilson is a #2 ? What kind of money/yrs. would you offer for him ?

    I’d rather pay a bit more per year and shorten the term myself.

    Darvish might be very promising but is unproven at this point and is likely to very expensive.

    I kind of think a placeholder like a Beurhle on a 2yr. would have been ideal. Not gonna happen
    though. He’ll likely get more.

    Maybe we should roll the dice on a Danks rental after all ? Just reduce the return to reflect that he is being valued as a rental.

    Banuelos could be a big factor in 2013.

    Don’t necessarily want to clog up the Ro. I want another quality lefty sooner or later.

  36. MTU December 1st, 2011 at 10:22 am

    JCPD-

    Thanks. They are very, very nice as always. I am doing some new things.

    The files sizes are so large that I am having a hard time sharing them thru Picassa anymore.

    The results are quite spectacular. I’ll find a way to get some toyou eventually.

    I hope things are going well for you.

    :)

  37. blake December 1st, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Matt Cain era +
    2010: 124
    2011: 123

    Gio gonzalez era+
    2010: 127
    2011: 130

    CJ Wilson era +
    2010: 134
    2011: 152

    Matt Garza era +
    2010: 100
    2011: 118

  38. Yankee Trader December 1st, 2011 at 10:24 am

    JCPD-

    Really enjoyed the photos. Where’s the lighthouse?

    MTU-
    Like Buehrle but I believe he made 14M last year, and as I mentioned before, Garcia had a mirror image of Buehrle’s stats last year, except for the 200 innings Buehrle pitched, and has pitched for the last 11 years.

    Wilson is a #2 based on the last 2 years. He and Gio were one-two in walks last year. I don’t see him taking/getting offered less than 18M/yearx5-6 years. Pat M thinks the Yankees are in, so well have to see if he really signs by next week in Dallas.

    My ideal one year FA fill in until Betances/Banuelos might challenge for a 2013 starting spot would be a pitcher the Dodgers can’t afford to bring back, but I’m afraid might go back to Japan. Cashman-wine and dine Hiroki Kuroda.

  39. LGY December 1st, 2011 at 10:24 am

    @Buster_ESPN: Some executives convinced that there will be a lot of trade talk and deals at the winter meetings, because teams shying away from FA prices.

  40. upstate kate December 1st, 2011 at 10:28 am

    Beautiful pix JCPD, thanks for sharing.

  41. JCPD December 1st, 2011 at 10:29 am

    YT, they were in and around Glouster and Marblehead, Mass. The Christmas lights were in Syracuse on my way back home to Buffalo. I’ve now photographed about 85 lighthouses.

  42. JCPD December 1st, 2011 at 10:29 am

    A pleasure always kate

  43. Yankee Trader December 1st, 2011 at 10:30 am

    Blake-
    So which pitcher of those 4 do you want?

    Look at Matt Cain’s splits last year first:

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/...../matt-cain

  44. pat December 1st, 2011 at 10:31 am

    YanksSpringBallNYY Spring Training
    Tomorrow morning at 10am individual Spring Training tickets go on sale to the public visit http://www.steinbrennerfield.com for more information!

  45. MTU December 1st, 2011 at 10:31 am

    YT-

    Thanks. Kuroda huh ? OK. I still want the lefty if possible.

    ;)

  46. blake December 1st, 2011 at 10:32 am

    Lgy,

    Bowden said on the radio yesterday that from the texts he’s gotten and in talking to GMs that there is a lot of activity going on behind the scenes and he thinks the winter meetings will be very busy……he’s also convinced the ayanjees will add a starter.

  47. blake December 1st, 2011 at 10:34 am

    Trader,

    Uhm…..as with everything it all depends on price. I would rather have 4 years if Gio than 1 year of Cain though if the price waste similar……..Cain also pitches in a huge ballpark against even worse offenses…..

  48. blake December 1st, 2011 at 10:37 am

    Basically my point was that CJ Wilson has been a better pitcher the last 2 seasons than anyone mentioned as a trade target…..the question is whether its sustainable and how much he will cost…….

  49. Yankee Trader December 1st, 2011 at 10:37 am

    JCPD-

    I’m sure you have great pics of this wonderful lighthouse.

    http://lighthouse.cc/capeneddick/

    MTU-

    I’d rather get a FA[Kuroda] on a one year contract instead of Danks on a one year rental

  50. blake December 1st, 2011 at 10:38 am

    SI_JonHeyman 3 mins Sources: Valentine got 2-year deal with #redsox.

  51. Yankee Trader December 1st, 2011 at 10:40 am

    Cain was rocked in Coors last year, Gio in YS,Fenway and Rogers center.

    I’d rather have the just turned 27 yo Cain on a 4 year extension than Wilson on a 100M contract.

  52. RhapsodyInBlue December 1st, 2011 at 10:46 am

    Valentine gets 2 years of hard time.

  53. blake December 1st, 2011 at 10:47 am

    “I’d rather have the just turned 27 yo Cain on a 4 year extension than Wilson on a 100M contract.”

    Well yea……but its not that simple. One, I doubt he’d sign a 4 year extension……think more along the lines of 6/120. Second….you have to consider the prospect loss to trade for him now.

    I wouldn’t give Wilson 100 million …….but if you could sign him for say 75 or 80 million then would you rather do that than lose the prospects required and the 120 million dollar extension for Cain……it would take at least Betances and maybe both he and Banuelos to acquire Cain…..plus more.

  54. blake December 1st, 2011 at 10:49 am

    If the decision was:

    CJ Wilson at 5/75

    Or

    Matt Cain at 6/120 + Betances, Nunez, Gardner

    Which would you rather do?

  55. upstate kate December 1st, 2011 at 10:49 am

    2 years sounds about right…by then he will have worn out his welcome ;)

  56. MTU December 1st, 2011 at 10:51 am

    OK YT.

    You Da’Man. We’ll do it your way.

    ;)

  57. LGY December 1st, 2011 at 10:52 am

    I’m not the biggest CJ Wilson fan because he’s kind of a douche but I have to agree with blake about him and said a few weeks ago it appears he may be undervalued on the market right now.

    He has been really good the past 2 years and other than Hamels may be the best pitcher available over the next couple years.

    Also, in regard to his playoff performance keep in mind even Andy Pettitte struggled initially in October (5.65 ERA in his first 51 playoff innings).

    I’d be interested in him at the right price.

  58. austinmac December 1st, 2011 at 10:53 am

    Wilson has been bad mouthed a great deal on this board. He is not in the top tier of pitchers, but in the last two years he has been right below them. I think, at the right price, he would be a great addition.

    I still predict he will likely sign with the Rangers. They, like everyone else, are waiting for the price to drop.

    Of course, I believe my last correct transaction prediction was the Babe Ruth for cash deal.

  59. MTU December 1st, 2011 at 10:56 am

    Blake-

    Do you believe we could actually get Wilson on 5/75 ?

    I don’t.

  60. LGY December 1st, 2011 at 10:56 am

    Only 2 years?

    Not exactly a vote of confidence for Bobby V.

  61. blake December 1st, 2011 at 10:58 am

    With Wilson I think its all about where his price ends up and whether you believe he will get hurt or regress or not……I don’t love the way he throws the ball…..and I don’t love his age at 31…….but he’s only thrown 700+ innings at 31…..and he could have a later than usual prime because of that low mileage. He’s not a must have…….but if they really want to add a #2 type then I prefer him to some of the predicted prospect prices to aquire some of these guys…..especially if Kenny Williams is going to be crazy with his demands.

  62. blake December 1st, 2011 at 11:00 am

    “Do you believe we could actually get Wilson on 5/75 ?”

    I don’t know……I.don’t think he will get 100 million…..my guess is its closer to 75 than 100

  63. dogface December 1st, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Only 2 years?

    ===============

    Was thinking the same. This is a guy who’s had significant managerial experience with some moderate success. Inexperienced Mike Matheny got 2 years with a team option from the Cards. I think Ventura got 3 from the White Sox. Puzzling.

  64. Erin December 1st, 2011 at 11:02 am

    FakePeteGammons Bobby V’s 2 year deal shows smart savvy #Redsox have inside scoop from MIT that the world is ending by 2013. This is Peter Gammons.

  65. MTU December 1st, 2011 at 11:02 am

    How is Valentine gonna find enough room on the bench for his players considering the size of his ego ?

    That’s gonna be tough. Especially in the Sardine can with those spacious quarters.

    :)

  66. Erin December 1st, 2011 at 11:03 am

    BobKlap #RedSox hedging their bet with Valentine’s 2-year deal, per @SI_JonHeyman. Bobby V needed 3 yrs as proof to players he’s in charge

  67. blake December 1st, 2011 at 11:04 am

    Peronalky I think Bobby V will get those 80 homers and 80 doubles out of Gonzalez.

  68. dogface December 1st, 2011 at 11:05 am

    Do you believe we could actually get Wilson on 5/75 ?”

    ============================

    Not a huge Wilson fan, but can’t see any possible argument for him settling for less than Burnett or Lackey. Could see him come in at the $86M-$90M range for 5 years.

  69. MTU December 1st, 2011 at 11:07 am

    Blake-

    Personally, If BV is not careful I think he’s gonna get a good azz whoopin’ up there.

    Especially if Beckett and Co. continue to get all tanked up like last year.

    Gasoline meet fire.

    ;)

  70. blake December 1st, 2011 at 11:07 am

    to be contrarian…..Bobby V did take a mediocre Mets team to the WS……and he’s never had anywhere close to the talent that the current Sox have.

    I think this thing will either be a total train wreck…….or a huge success for Boston with very little in between.

  71. blake December 1st, 2011 at 11:11 am

    “Not a huge Wilson fan, but can’t see any possible argument for him settling for less than Burnett or Lackey. Could see him come in at the $86M-$90M range for 5 years.”

    Yea it may fall in that range……but that’s sorta the point……he’s a better pitcher than both of those guys so while its a lot of cash….its probably appropriate for what he is and where the pitching market has been.

  72. 108 stitches December 1st, 2011 at 11:14 am

    Dealing for the sake of dealing is not Cashman’s modus operandi. It better be a right deal for the Yankees or Cashman fully knows not to cave in and is prepared to use the word “no”.

    He’s in the best position he’s ever been in since given more authority in 2006 and has seen the farm system progress at a steady pace with no interest of breaking it apart just to get a “marquee” name to appease the fanbase. Those days are gone.
    The last time Cashman felt he had to make one more move was when he signed Burnett who was not a clear difference maker for the 2009 World Championship. Cashman has learned.

  73. Erin December 1st, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Blake-I’m hoping it’s a trainwreck. ;)

    Supposedly a lot of the Boston players are less than thrilled with their new manager

  74. DONNYBROOK December 1st, 2011 at 11:20 am

    Cashman is doing nothing, because he has nothing to prove at this point. The guy has a 3yr deal freshly planted in his back pocket, and he came out smellin’ like a rose when he butted heads with Mgt. over Soriano. As The Hawk would say, “He’s in the catbird seat”. If Cashman was Jimmy Cagney, he’d be yellin’, “I’m on top of the world, Ma”. NO GM has the security Cashman has at this moment in time. Cashman stared Mgt eyeball to eyeball at that press conference for all the world to see, and pulled a Norma Rae. But the drawback to that is Cashman from this point forward has nowhere to go but down. He will NEVER enjoy the prominence he currently holds, and he is fully aware of that. He is gonna be extremely cautious as he enjoys the view, for he knows nothing last forever. I believe the only thing he truly wants to do NOW, is get Darvish should that opportunity present itself. Selling Hal on that is currently a full-time job for Cash, but again, he came out The Rose once again when it came to persuading Mgt. to cut loose the change on TEX. Cashman knows that getting Darvish would put the Yanks and their young rotation is position to establish a Dynasty, and establishing a dynasty is the last world Cashman has to conquer.

  75. 108 stitches December 1st, 2011 at 11:20 am

    blake December 1st, 2011 at 11:07 am
    to be contrarian…..Bobby V did take a mediocre Mets team to the WS……and he’s never had anywhere close to the talent that the current Sox have.

    I think this thing will either be a total train wreck…….or a huge success for Boston with very little in between.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Talent ? What talent ? You can’t be talking about the pitching staff or last year’s pitching for that matter.
    As it is, Cherington will be making low cost (salvage yard) moves to shore up the pitching.

  76. NYJim December 1st, 2011 at 11:22 am

    Valentine is a pretty forceful personality. I just can’t see him reining in all the superstar personalities. Should be fun to watch the dugout during games…

  77. Erin December 1st, 2011 at 11:24 am

    Lesson #4,566 on why never to believe anything Jon Heyman says:

    Ken_Rosenthal Posada agent, Seth Levinson, on whether Posada called Mets for job. “There is no truth to that report. None”

    ;)

  78. pat December 1st, 2011 at 11:25 am

    Ken_RosenthalKen Rosenthal

    Posada’s agent, Seth Levinson, on whether Posada called the #Mets about a job. “There is no truth to that report. None.” #MLB

  79. austinmac December 1st, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Now, that we know Valentine is the greatest manager and smartest man in the history of baseball, I wonder why no major league team offered him a job for the last ten years. That is a puzzler.

    Boston does have talent. They did lead the league in runs scored. However, they will rise or fall on pitching. They will add a pitcher or two this winter. Cherington is not going to do nothing in that regard in his first off-season.

    I believe a team makes a big mistake by not trying to improve. The Yankees must do so as well.

  80. Erin December 1st, 2011 at 11:27 am

    ScottMCBSSports One small step for the Boston Red Sox, one giant leap for Sunday night baseball viewers.

  81. dogface December 1st, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Supposedly a lot of the Boston players are less than thrilled with their new manager

    ======================================

    If I’m the Boston brass, I don’t care whether they’re thrilled with the guy. I’d tell myself “Look at what happened when the players got a little too comfortable with their manager”. That tank job last September is going to come with a price.

  82. DONNYBROOK December 1st, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Levinson’s probably telling the truth. Posada did Not make the call, Levinson made the call for him.

  83. Bo knows December 1st, 2011 at 11:34 am

    The Yankees have a starting five plus a backup at the Majors level. Hughes should be a #2 based on other pitchers’ histories that went through the dead arm period after a big jump in innings. Nova/Noesi throw gas and are cheap for the next few years. Any team needs a big three and the Yankees have CC, Nova/Noesi with Hughes in the mix. So any trade should be – Is this an upgrade on CC, Nova/Noesi, Hughes/Banuelos? The others are none factors. That eliminates most of the arms available out there. Kennedy was just a couple of years ago, no need to do something stupid to generate headlines.

  84. Gary December 1st, 2011 at 11:36 am

    Villa Nova-Ya December 1st, 2011 at 9:15 am
    Not winning?

    Gary, they win. They win a lot. There is no way they are EVER going to win the WS every year. It is totally amazing to me that they are pretty much a given for the playoffs every year – not a whole lot of teams in their league in that regard.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Villa caught this one from earlier today. Totally agree no one can win it every year, although in the past teams like the Yankees and the 49′ers and even the Pats were able to assert dominance over a fair number of consecutive years. I guess it where you want to set the bar, Yanks in the last 12 years have won the WS twice, but in the last 11 years only once so it’s a sucess ratio of about 10%. I sort of have the bar set higher. In my mind over the last 11 years and having had 10 trips to the playoffs in those years I would have thought we would be more successful then we have been.

    ___________________________________________________________________________

  85. blake December 1st, 2011 at 11:38 am

    “Talent ? What talent ? You can’t be talking about the pitching staff or last year’s pitching for that matter.”

    Come on now…..they have holes but they do have a lot of talent on that roster if we are being objective……..are they the “best team ever”……no…..but it is probably the most talented team Bobby V will have ever managed.

  86. blake December 1st, 2011 at 11:41 am

    “If I’m the Boston brass, I don’t care whether they’re thrilled with the guy. ”

    Totally agree…..they lost their right to complain when they took advantage of Tito and ate chicken and drank beer on their way to a historical September collapse

  87. Villa Nova-Ya December 1st, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Cashman has never struck me as “me” guy, nor as a guy who is content to sit on his laurels.

  88. Gary December 1st, 2011 at 11:46 am

    blake December 1st, 2011 at 11:38 am
    “Talent ? What talent ? You can’t be talking about the pitching staff or last year’s pitching for that matter.”

    Come on now…..they have holes but they do have a lot of talent on that roster if we are being objective……..are they the “best team ever”……no…..but it is probably the most talented team Bobby V will have ever managed.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Beyond all the other things the Sox has have major issues with injuries for the past few years. I’m not defending them, but to give a fair assessment I think it has impacted their record significantly. Hard to work around those issues sometimes, I’m watching my Giants season implode as the injuries just mount week to week.

  89. blake December 1st, 2011 at 11:47 am

    Interesting that John Farrell’s contract is up in 2 years with the Jays and Bobby V signs a 2 year deal.

  90. blake December 1st, 2011 at 11:50 am

    The Sox injuries are part of who they are though……they have a lot risk on that roster and that’s one of their big flaws as a clubs…..injury risk and lack to depth to cover it.

  91. DONNYBROOK December 1st, 2011 at 11:51 am

    Nova is not a proven 2 Slotter or even a 3 Slotter. Same goes for Hughes. And this dead arm stuff in regard to Hughes is hooey. The guy showed up to ST overweight, which says something about his dedication And his character in general. He’s young and everyone makes mistakes and hopefully learns from those mistakes when young. The Yanks currently have Hughes attending a fat farms to get him straightened out physically. The dedication and the character building are gonna have to come from elsewhere. You just cannot depend on guys with the limited experience of Nova and Hughes as 2 or 3 Slot SP’s. They may have the physical tools to accomplish such, but the mental toughness required to succeed in those roles issa whole separate issue that can only be judged over the course of time.

  92. dogface December 1st, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Totally agree no one can win it every year, although in the past teams like the Yankees and the 49?ers and even the Pats were able to assert dominance over a fair number of consecutive years

    =======================

    Don’t think the football comparison works here. Too many built in advantages for the teams with better records (fewer games required to win title, HFA, etc) and too much of a team game. Baseball postseason is much more of a crapshoot. Sometimes, one guy can change everything. Take 1988, when Orel Hersheiser was functioning at such a dominant level, that he was able to carry his Dodger teammates past two vastly superior opponents. Postseason history is littered with lesser teams catching lightning in a bottle and beating a better team. Just doesn’t happen in football that often.

  93. tucker December 1st, 2011 at 11:56 am

    As per Bobby Valentine, the players will accept him if they win. If they struggle and the pressure mounts, the complaints about his style will trickle out.

    Of bigger cocern to the Sox is their incomplete pitching staff and nonexistent right fielder. They need two more starters and a closer. IMO, bard would be a disaster as a closer. Also, Ortiz will be expensive to retain on a two-year deal or will get a nice bump if he accepts arbitration.

  94. 108 stitches December 1st, 2011 at 11:59 am

    blake December 1st, 2011 at 11:38 am
    “Talent ? What talent ? You can’t be talking about the pitching staff or last year’s pitching for that matter.”

    Come on now…..they have holes but they do have a lot of talent on that roster if we are being objective……..are they the “best team ever”……no…..but it is probably the most talented team Bobby V will have ever managed.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Only ESPN will pick them to be better than the Rays and possibly even the Jays. Boston has Gonzalez, the elf, Ellsbury, and maybe Crawford if he can get settled with a new batting stance which Valentine insists needs to be changed. Boston has little if any lineup flexibility. Both Girardi and Maddon have the flexibility they need.

  95. yanks61 December 1st, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    Donnybrook, I see that you mentioned my handle the other day on the DN blog when appealing to some of the other marooned bloggers on that site to come over here.

    I tried to log in in order to back up your statement about how much better it is here but, try as I might, it was impossible. Error notices and other roadblocks come up every time. Actually, I think most of the good folks have abandoned that place a long time ago – it’s a blogging graveyard, where bloggers go to die. Even WCYF (aka Redfish) has swam off to some unknown exile.

    Anyway, I’m sure you’ve already obviously found it a lot more interesting here. By the way, speaking of Redfish/WCYF, have you any idea what happened to that guy at the DN site who used to absolutely make a laughing stock of the fish? The guy’s humor often crossed over into the semi-obscene, but he was a real hoot. At one point, I thought he had driven Fishy off the board then, sometime later, he disappeared himself.

  96. tucker December 1st, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    Blake, good point about Farrel’s contract. Perhaps Sox management is sending a signal to Bobby V: Win now or else.

    If Alex A. continues to push the right buttons with the Jays, I imagine he’ll want to stay put in another two years (if the Jays want that).

  97. blake December 1st, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    ” Boston has Gonzalez, the elf, Ellsbury, and maybe Crawford”

    You don’t think Ortiz, Youkallis, Beckett, Lester, Bucholtz etc…..are any good? I didn’t say they were a complete team …….I said they were the most talented team Valentine will have ever coached……

  98. blake December 1st, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    The Jays are a player or two away……if they add the additional WC they coukd compete for that as soon as next year

  99. m December 1st, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    # blake December 1st, 2011 at 11:04 am

    Peronalky I think Bobby V will get those 80 homers and 80 doubles out of Gonzalez.

    ——————————————————————————————————–

    Doubt Bobby V will be there long enough. :P

  100. Erin December 1st, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    New Post: Posada’s future still uncertain

    :arrow:

  101. DONNYBROOK December 1st, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    Farrell’s inna good spot with Toronto. Good team getting better fast, and after dumping Vernon Wells, have the $$$ to get better quick. That 3rd baseman they brought up at the tailend of the season, (can’t recall his name), was the best young bat I saw last season. He is gonna be a Monster. I fear Toronto more than TB in the AL East. Boston aint even in the discussion. Maybe they will do something before April to change that, but as of now, they aint squat.
    -yanks61-
    Don’t know what happened to any of those guys. A Couple of guys that were extremely knowledgeable but were driven off with the wackiness, were Rick Keyes, (a softball legend in Ohio), and Jim A. I hope those 2 gents somehow find their way over here. They would be a very worthy addition to this fine Blog.

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