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Cashman: “We’re ready to move on something if it makes sense”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 02, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The word “prohibitive” was used this morning. Standing at the top of the Landmark Building in Stamford, Brian Cashman was asked whether the current asking prices — for both free agents and potential trade targets — are prohibitive.

“Yes, so far,” Cashman said.

In the next breath, though, he offered a glimer of hope for those of you hoping for some sort of hot stove action in the next few days and weeks.

“At the end of the day, we’re ready to move on something if it makes sense,” Cashman said. “I’ll make a recommendation to ownership and they can bless it or they can tell me no, but right now we’re going to go to Dallas (for the Winter Meetings), we’re going to continue to engage – I’ve stayed engaged via email, text, phone, in person, it doesn’t matter – but we’re set in a lot of places, we really are. Could it be better? It’s my job to try to find ways to make it better.

“… Right now, if you’re asking me do I expect to do something in the next week? No. But I’ve had enough conversations where I could wind up doing something today. A lot of work has been done. A lot of conversations have been had. If somebody bends or adjusts, then I’m ready to make a recommendation for us to make a move.”

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99 Responses to “Cashman: “We’re ready to move on something if it makes sense””

  1. DONNYBROOK December 2nd, 2011 at 11:58 am

    This kind of mumbo-jumbo outta Cashman smacks of a Multi-Team possibility. It also took awhile for all parties to become satisfied before the Grandy deal was consumated.

  2. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 11:59 am

    This talk from Cashman reads from the same script he reads every year the first week of December. You think people would catch on by now.

    – Repost in regards to Wilson’s “denied meeting”…

    Maybe Cashman doesn’t want to drive up the price on Wilson so he can sign him later in the offseason? The last few years the Yankee’s have been the first or second team on the table with large money deals (or in crawfords case intentionally “met with him in a public setting”), and those players take that deal and wave it in the face of every other team trying to squeeze more money out of them (you know none of them want the yankees to sign players and get better, so there is motive). This serves the Yankees in driving up the price for other teams, but not themselves for signing the players they actually want (i.e. lee).

    Letting it be public knowledge that the Yankees have had zero contact or talks with Wilson or his agent serves a purpose. Now the other teams know there is no high money deal already floating out there to worry about, and they will all offer Wilson lesser deals. If the Yankees decide to “swoop in late” to sign him, the cost will be lower at that point.

  3. Gary December 2nd, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    Merry Christmas something in there for everyone. The comments are just cannon fodder out there, best accessed as not directed towards the fans but to the other teams.

    Clearly I agree with Donnybrook, something(s) are in the wind. Will they become reality? time will tell.

    I wonder where he is on the Soler, Csepead, Darvish trio and how much that is tying him up in other negotiations?

  4. Gary December 2nd, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 11:59 am
    This talk from Cashman reads from the same script he reads every year the first week of December. You think people would catch on by now.

    – Repost in regards to Wilson’s “denied meeting”…

    Maybe Cashman doesn’t want to drive up the price on Wilson so he can sign him later in the offseason? The last few years the Yankee’s have been the first or second team on the table with large money deals (or in crawfords case intentionally “met with him in a public setting”), and those players take that deal and wave it in the face of every other team trying to squeeze more money out of them (you know none of them want the yankees to sign players and get better, so there is motive). This serves the Yankees in driving up the price for other teams, but not themselves for signing the players they actually want (i.e. lee).

    Letting it be public knowledge that the Yankees have had zero contact or talks with Wilson or his agent serves a purpose. Now the other teams know there is no high money deal already floating out there to worry about, and they will all offer Wilson lesser deals. If the Yankees decide to “swoop in late” to sign him, the cost will be lower at that point.

    ___________________________________________________________________________

    I really do doubt it, the other guys are pretty smart and see through alot of this stuff quickly. They aren’t basing their offers and interest on other teams, but what their situation allows.

  5. LGY December 2nd, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    I envision this scenario: Mo retires at the end of the year and Soriano opts out after a lights-out year. What do the Yankees do?

    ——————–

    D-Rob to closer, Joba EIG, Hughes SIG, re-sign Soriano for $30 million to be the ROOGY.

  6. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    They aren’t basing their offers and interest on other teams, but what their situation allows.

    That’s not how any business I’ve ever seen operates. You are telling me at as a GM, if you knew a player had met with the Yankees and got an offer… even if he didn’t tell you what it was… would you bother trying to lowball that player?

  7. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    gary – my point is, it’s way more likely to be gamesmanship than the yankees declaring they don’t want wilson.

  8. Gary December 2nd, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 12:07 pm
    gary – my point is, it’s way more likely to be gamesmanship than the yankees declaring they don’t want wilson.

    ___________________________________________________________________________

    Ok, fair comment. There are many paths of interpertation we just talked about a couple of them. :-)

  9. DONNYBROOK December 2nd, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Yanks also wantta keep Wilson onna string, just in case Darvish elects to stay in Japan.

  10. Gary December 2nd, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    I’m looking at the ad on the right margin of my screen. What are the Lohud guys doing with that C$a* on their page?

  11. LGY December 2nd, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    Remember when Hughes was working out with Ricky Romero?

    It appears Romero is on Hughes’ man boobs routine.

    http://twitter.com/#!/RickyRo2.....to/1/large

    :shock:

  12. spidanyc December 2nd, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    Joe Cowley of the Chicago Sun-Times reports that the White Sox have been shopping John Danks around in trade talks.
    General manager Kenny Williams indicated last month that he would be reluctant to part with Danks, but it was likely just an attempt to bump up the asking price. That price is evidently steep, as a source from another team told Cowley that Williams “asked for everyone on our roster in return” for the left-hander. While an obvious exaggeration, it’s no surprise that Williams would be demanding a lot for the 27-year-old Danks, who is set to make around $7-8 million in his final year of arbitration.

  13. Erin December 2nd, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    LGY- :lol:

  14. DONNYBROOK December 2nd, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    - GARY -
    Love that add. Kinda livens things up around here onna gloomy day.

  15. Erin December 2nd, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    richarddeitsch Terry Francona is at ESPN today for “conversations” regarding the network’s interest in him as an analyst, per an ESPN spokesperson.

  16. DONNYBROOK December 2nd, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Gotta include CC in that Romero\Hughes club. In fact he may be Pres.

  17. DONNYBROOK December 2nd, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Boy, that ESPN-R\Sox shuttle is workin’ overtime these days.

  18. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    Are there manboobs in that picture somewhere I am not aware of? Romero looks to be in pretty damn good shape if you ask me.

    Take your shirt off, those are man-boobs.

  19. 108 stitches December 2nd, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    Cashman’s hands are virtually tied until he disposes of Burnett. It’s a starting rotation spot tied up for the young arms ready to be on the scene such as Noesi, Warren, Phelps, and Mitchell.
    2013 will be even worse with both Betances and Banuelos ready after a full season of AAA.

  20. m December 2nd, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    Actually, having Francona on there is a good thing. More dirt on Boston. :lol:

    I agree with Chase. Love this club. It’s going to be a good year. May Boston do its part.

  21. LGY December 2nd, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Take your shirt off, those are man-boobs

    ——–

    Is this some type of magic trick?

  22. tucker December 2nd, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    If Soriano returns to his 2010 form, the Yanks could make him the closer after Mo retires. D-Rob certainly had an incredible year. His only bugaboo is that he walks too many batters. Who’s the closer is a question every other team needs to address every few years or more often. With Mo’s retirement, the Yanks will finally need to address this, too.

  23. DaSaint007 December 2nd, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Cashman has something under wraps, and certainly it can only be a move for a pitcher or OF, as all else is set in stone.

    The part that intrigues me is where he says “I’ll make a recommendation to ownership and they can bless it or they can tell me no”, which mean’s that it’s not so much a strict personnel move, but one with significant dollars attached. Why else would you need ownership to bless it? Ownership doesn’t bless – or block – moves for backup infielders or low-cost players, only for significant payroll additions.

    IF, and that’s a big IF that’s the case, then it’s for a pitcher or OF who has a large contract that another team wants to move and the Yankees could absorb – IF they relax their fiscal constraints.

  24. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    LGY – Yes, is your mind freaked yet?

  25. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    dasaint – I’d say that’s reading a bit much into it. Ownership still OK’s every move, no matter how significant. That’s why you own stuff… so you make the decisions.

  26. Chip December 2nd, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    A few thoughts around the league:

    1. No Pirates trade suggestion, no matter how silly, should be dismissed out of hand – you’re talking about the GM of a bad team who handed actual money to Clint Barmes and Rod Barajas to start when he had younger, cheaper options already on the roster.

    2. Soria will be traded this winter. The price on Free Agent closers is so silly this winter that KC would be nuts not to deal him. Forget whether Broxton is healthy enough to close or not – even as bad as the AL Central is – the Royals aren’t going to compete – they can get a huge haul for Soria right now from either the Red Sox, Reds or Twins.

    3. Jorge Posada is finding it a lot less fun to be a free agent this time around when no one wants him. He’s either going to have to accept a minor league deal and invite to spring training or retire. David Ortiz is in a similar situation, but he’ll still get a major league deal – just not for what he wants.

    4. There is no one on the Astros who is untouchable right now – nor should there be. Yankees should try to steal Brett Myers. Andrew Friedman would be nuts to leave Tampa for that club.

    5. If the Angels do bring in Aramis Ramirez and CJ Wilson they could be very good next year, but they are also going to be extremely old.

    6. I think a lot of people in Chicago are going to be disappointed by a general lack of player movement from Theo but they shouldn’t be. .

    7. It’s still early but right now the Yankees are the offseason winners. The Red Sox are a complete mess (but could turn that around now that they have the front office sorted out), the few moves Baltimore has made are questionable at best, and Tampa, as always, is hamstrung by their finances and now they have to watch their cross state rival get all sorts of attention for made and potential moves. As I said, it’s early and I fully expect Boston to wind up with one of the closers on the trade market (Soria or Street) and at least one more bat.

    8. The Rockies couldn’t get back anything more than a mediocre pitcher for Chris Ianetta? Really?

    9. No one can blame the Yankees for screwing up the market this year. They made a sensible deal with CC; it’s the Phillies and Marlins that are throwing away money like drunk college kids.

    10. Finally, for those who think Soriano is going to opt out – please consider the stupid contracts that have been handed to Pap and Bell and remember – Soriano still makes more than them.

  27. m December 2nd, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    I think Bobby V will actually be cool with the players. They will self-correct and fly straight for a while. They will have to answer not to Bobby, but they do know that there are lots of eyes on them.

    There might actually be more of a thing between Bobby & Ben Cherrington. We know that the relationships between Cashman and Torre, and later Cashman and Girardi are key. Torre & Girardi both talked with Cash after each game, and worked closely on roster composition and moves.

    Right now, it looks like Bobby V. is trying to get Cherrington on Team Bobby. There were some words to that effect in his introductory presser.

    Don’t wish Bobby V any ill, but I hope their roster sucks and that he’s not quite able to squeeze out the talent necessary to be a threat.

  28. Chip December 2nd, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    Whoever takes over for Mo when he retires faces an impossible task. There is going to be a loud segment of fans (and the media) who are going to crucify him for not being as flawless and Mariano. A few blown saves and it will be “get him out of here, we need a real closer.” or if it is Robertson there will be people pontificating saying “Ya know, he’s great in the 8th inning but it’s a different sort of mentality closing out games and I just don’t know if he has it. They should really put Joba there, Joba when he’s right he has that temperment like Gossage to just seal a game, I think Robertson just doesn’t have that” (that was my best Mike Francesa impression)

  29. Erin December 2nd, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    Chip-exactly right on whoever takes over for Mo (which I think will be D-Rob). It’ll be as if Mo never blew a save in his life. ;)

  30. Chip December 2nd, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    M-

    I think Boston, as an organization both with Tito and before him, has catered to players too much for those guys still in the organization to simply straighten up and fly right. Think of all the slack cut to guys like Pedro, Nomar, Manny over the years – take a few days off before and after the All-Star game, whatever. The fact that some players were taking liberties last year doesn’t shock me, the feigned ignorance and the fact that it was all placed at the feet of Francona is what had me a little confused. It was an atmosphere that was created before Francona even got to Boston.

    Anyway, that is the long way of saying, I don’t think the players are going to self correct – I think they’re going to challenge Valentine, grumble if they don’t get what they want and see what happens. It will be very interesting if Cherrington tries to publically support Valentine while ownership backs the players – given that Cherrington didn’t want Valentine here in the first place.

    The one thing I will say about the decision to hire him over a younger guy like a Sveum or Dave Martinez is that Valentine not being a contemporary of any of these guys might help him to dole out discipline as opposed to the way you might run into trouble if guys view you as an ex-teammate rather than a manager.

  31. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    Chip – great point about Mo. It’s been long enough with him around now that there are not many fans left with the perspective of what a normal closer is like. The yankee’s have not had a normal closer since Wetteland. Mo is not a closer, Mo is a freak of nature.

    It’s gonna be a rough 30-40 years waiting for a once in a generation talent like Mo to crop up again :(

  32. blake December 2nd, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    Which is why the Yankees shouldn’t mortgage the future to do it…..but perhaps they should go a little harder to win now in 2012 …….because this may be Mo’s last year and because Derek and Alex are only going to get older.

  33. blake December 2nd, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    SI_JonHeyman 3 hours hearing the #nationals are going to push for cj wilson. they want a lefty, and apparently thats their top target

  34. Joe from Long Island December 2nd, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    No Pirates trade suggestion, no matter how silly, should be dismissed out of hand ? you?re talking about the GM of a bad team who handed actual money to Clint Barmes and Rod Barajas to start when he had younger, cheaper options already on the roster.

    Chip – I think that the Pirates signed those two guys with an eye towards the trade deadline, 2012 – ie, trade chips for teams in the hunt, who need veteran backups. The return for the Pirates would then be reasonably good young players that they can control, and who might turn into something. The Pirates took a similar tactic last season.

  35. blake December 2nd, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    Yanks should kick the tires on Mccutchen ….he’s a cornerstone type talent.

  36. Chip December 2nd, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    blake December 2nd, 2011 at 1:00 pm
    Which is why the Yankees shouldn’t mortgage the future to do it…..but perhaps they should go a little harder to win now in 2012 …….because this may be Mo’s last year and because Derek and Alex are only going to get older.

    —————

    Well I think the Yankees are always in it to win it. It’s a delicate balance for Cashman – for the prices Yankee fans pay and for the money ownership lays out – he has to put a team that is capable of going to the World Series on the field year after year. So going “a little harder” to win now even at the slight expense of 2013 or 2014 is unacceptable to him.

    When we hear Brian say that a deal has to make sense, he means that it has to not only improve this year’s club, but has to improve the next three or four squads as well. It’s that rational that makes it easier for him to deal a Vizciano (or perhaps Gary Sanchez) than an Adam Warren or Austin Romine. He might need Warren or Romine sooner rather than later – guys further down the road, no matter how talented they are, can be more readily replaced.

  37. Chip December 2nd, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    blake December 2nd, 2011 at 1:05 pm
    Yanks should kick the tires on Mccutchen ….he’s a cornerstone type talent.

    —————-

    As I said, no Pirates suggestion should be dismissed – but I think even THAT front office knows you have to give the fans some reason to show up. The PR hit they would take from dealing a young, supremely talented, cheap OF would be immense.

  38. blake December 2nd, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    Chip,

    I agree with all of that……I just think it may be harder to win games when #42 is no longer out there. So if they have a chance to improve in whatever areas without jeopardizing the long term significantly then id like to see them push a little harder than maybe usual this winter.

    I think they are set up for long term success……but I also think there is a championship window here that may close soon …..and there may be some overlap before the next one opens…..

  39. blake December 2nd, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    Chip,

    Its all about whether they think they’ll compete before McCutchen becomes a FA……if Cole and their young players will come along in time.

  40. RSM December 2nd, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    Chip,
    I respectfully disagree regarding Robertson.
    He seems to actually pitch better in high pressure situations.
    Coversely, Joba tries to be too perfect.
    IMO, Roberstson is the heir apparant.

  41. Shame Spencer December 2nd, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    Just wanted to stop in to say hello to everyone!! I got a new job a few weeks ago and have been trying to actually pay attention while I’m there (for now) so my time on the site has been few and far between. Glad to see the same folks making great conversation and happy to see some new names and faces around here.

    Pitchers and catchers is just around the corner people.. :D

  42. Joe from Long Island December 2nd, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    Shame – hi, and good luck to you.

  43. upstate kate December 2nd, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    Hi Shame!
    Congrats on the new job :)

  44. blake December 2nd, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Hi Shame congrats.

    If Mo retired today then Drob would be the guy……he had one of the best seasons ever for a reliever last year and just is best equipped for it.

  45. Chip December 2nd, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    blake December 2nd, 2011 at 1:12 pm
    Chip,

    I agree with all of that……I just think it may be harder to win games when #42 is no longer out there. So if they have a chance to improve in whatever areas without jeopardizing the long term significantly then id like to see them push a little harder than maybe usual this winter.

    I think they are set up for long term success……but I also think there is a championship window here that may close soon …..and there may be some overlap before the next one opens…..
    ——————————-

    The issue becomes, where do you improve?

    If we’re talking about another pitcher – who gets bumped? The logical choices right now are either Freddy or Hughes.

    If we’re talking a position player – just contractually it almost has to be one of the corner outfielders.

    I know that there are many who would like to see Martin dumped, but to what end? There aren’t any better catchers available.

    Upgrading this team isn’t hard because of the talent level so much as it is because of the contractual obligations.

  46. blake December 2nd, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    “If we’re talking about another pitcher – who gets bumped? The logical choices right now are either Freddy or Hughes.”

    Aj

  47. Erin December 2nd, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    Hi Shame! Congrats on the new job-I was wondering where you’d been! Good to “see” you :)

  48. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Robertson is an interesting case and it will take another season or two to figure out his future. Currently he kind of gets by on “smoke and mirrors”. He doesn’t have great stuff or great command of it… but he has the lowest velocity drop from hand to plate of any pitcher, because when he throws the ball, the ball leaves his hand closer to the plate than any other pitcher (closer than CC, closer than even Randy johnson). This extra velocity his pitches hold all the way to the plate make his fastball “sneaky” (you’ll hear guys like Girardi refer to it as giddy-up or some such nonsense).

    The real question is how long will this trick hold up, will the league figure this out and start swinging a little earlier… or is there some magic to this, much like the cutter, that will continue to be useful for years to come.

  49. blake December 2nd, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    “Currently he kind of gets by on “smoke and mirrors”.

    You can’t be serious

  50. Chip December 2nd, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    blake December 2nd, 2011 at 1:28 pm
    “If we’re talking about another pitcher – who gets bumped? The logical choices right now are either Freddy or Hughes.”

    Aj

    ————–

    Based on performace – absolutely

    Based on the financial obligation – can’t do it.

    You can’t bury that much money in the bullpen, nor can you eat it by releasing him. So that means finding a trade partner willing to take on that salary obligation for a pitcher with such bad performance – I don’t see that team out there. Especially now that Tony Reagins isn’t a GM anymore.

  51. blake December 2nd, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    Robertson gets incredible extension because of his stride which makes the ball jump to the plate…..he also has a little cut on the end and his fastball velo has gone up every year…….also has one of the better power curveballs in baseball. He’s the opposite of smoke and mirrors.

  52. blake December 2nd, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    Chip,

    You try and eat enough money to trade him…..

  53. Erin December 2nd, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    Currently he kind of gets by on ?smoke and mirrors?.

    **************************

    Robertson?? :?

  54. m December 2nd, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    Robertson loves pressure situations. Ice in the veins. He’d be my choice for an in-house replacement.

  55. m December 2nd, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    I’m telling you, AJ is the Yankees Jesse Pinkman. He’s messed up, he screws up, but at the end of the day he saves their bacon. :P

  56. blake December 2nd, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    Robertson had multiple outings this year where he threw 100% fastballs and dominated….its that live and its that good of a pitch.

  57. Baseball Mogul December 2nd, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    Robertson is plain nasty. He’s one of the few on the team that can throw the fastball for swing and miss strikes in fastball counts. He’s got a plus curveball & even dropped in a few quality changeups at the end of the year.

  58. GreenBeret7 December 2nd, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    NYPost_Yankees New York Post
    Yankees’ Rivera’s throat surgery a success: source nyp.st/uhFQrt

  59. m December 2nd, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Robertson faced some pretty tough situations this year, and delivered all but one or two times from what I remember. A barely 1+ ERA. K/9 was 13.5. Was all kinds of awesome. Keep it up, DR!

  60. DONNYBROOK December 2nd, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    If I’m calling KC about a player, it is not Soria, it’s Gordon. I do not know how close Gordon is to free agency, but KC might be willing to move him due to the financial ramifications ahead. Deal Gardner for Gordon, (ala Kelly for O’Neill), or get Gordon without involving Gardner, and stick Gordon in RF. Gordon is turning into the Star that was predicted long ago. Better to get him now before the price really skyrockets. Swish can be dealt elsewhere maybe ATL. KC has always been hot on Gardner, so that might be the way the Yanks are forced to go in order to get Gordon.

  61. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    blake – His 92 mph pin straight fastball would get crushed if he didn’t pitch it the way he does.

    It is exactly smoke and mirrors. All of his pitches are more effective because he throws them closer to the plate, because he jumps off the rubber in his delivery. This causes his fastball to arrive before hitters expect it to, and his “power curve” to break later and closer to the plate.

    Would he still be good without this little quirk? Probably. As good? No… i don’t think so.

    He’s not fooling hitters with his “stuff”. His O-swing % is ridiculously low he’s not inducing swings outside the zone. They are simply swinging and missing at the strikes he throws because of this quirk.

  62. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    Robertson had multiple outings this year where he threw 100% fastballs and dominated….its that live and its that good of a pitch.

    Yes, and the things I said are “why” it’s that good of a pitch. Get it?

  63. GreenBeret7 December 2nd, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    The issue with Robertson as a closer is the number of pitches he throws to close out an inning.

  64. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    I’m not trying to say that Robertson is not good, he’s certainly been effective. Sustainability long-term is my concern, because of the way he pitches he can be “figured out” by hitters speeding up their timing.

  65. blake December 2nd, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    “– His 92 mph pin straight fastball would get crushed if he didn’t pitch it the way he does.”

    Its not straight……and the fact that he doesn’t fool hitters is exactly why he’s not a smoke and mirrors guy….he comes right at guys and they can’t hit him. Jamie Mites and Fresh Garcia are smoke and mirrors guys.

  66. blake December 2nd, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    Wow….Jamie Moyer and Freddy Garcia

  67. Baseball Mogul December 2nd, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    I’d rather see Robertson stay where he is. There are times (especially in close/postseason games) where you need a strikeout out of the pen with guys on base- he’s certainly proven capable of that.

  68. LGY December 2nd, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    Why don’t hitters just speed up their timing vs Verlander or Strasburg?

  69. blake December 2nd, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    Hitters have that big hook in the back if their mind against Drob…..he doesn’t have to throw it often for it to help him.

  70. UnKnown December 2nd, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    Wow this Baseball Wives show on VH1 is like driving past a bad car crash. It’s ugly but I can’t seem to look away.

  71. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    O-swing % in the 20′s is not good, one out of 5 balls he throws are swung at?
    His control is excellent… command is not just as good.

    Elite starters and most decent relievers keep this number over 30. For comparison sake, Mo’s O-Swing is 40% because he has the most ridiculous “command” of his pitches ever.

    The good news is that Robertson has been improving how many swings and misses he gets outside the zone each year. As I’ve said already, I merely curious if he can keep that up or if the league will just “get it” one day as it’s simply timing with him.

  72. DONNYBROOK December 2nd, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    Hitters did NOT figure out Tiant, Quisenberry, etc. If All Robertson had was some some kinda who-do-voodo- motion, the sticks woulda figured it out by now. Robertson aint pullin’ some kinda Houdidni out there night after night. He’s for real.

  73. blake December 2nd, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    D rob threw the ball by guys when he threw 89 mph a couple if years ago…..now he touches 95.

  74. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    donnybrook – it’s not magic, it’s a simple measured difference in his delivery from every other pitcher in baseball. There is less drop in velocity from his hand to the plate on his pitches than any other pitcher in baseball.

    how is that not an advantage based on something other than his “stuff”?

  75. DaSaint007 December 2nd, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    Congrats on the new gig Shame. Many of us are trying to keep up here while at work. Be careful!

  76. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    blake – you are completely missing the point

    “the fact that he doesn’t fool hitters is exactly why he’s not a smoke and mirrors guy….he comes right at guys and they can’t hit him”

    This is because his fastball is deceptive not because it’s a 98mph torch or being placed on the corner of the strike-zone. His 92mph fastball essentially becomes a 95-96mph fastball in the hitters eyes because of the way he throws it. If he was placing the strikes he throws on the corners he would get more swings at pitches outside the strike zone and end up walking less batters. Then he wouldn’t be relying on the deception of his delivery.

    D rob threw the ball by guys when he threw 89 mph a couple if years ago…..now he touches 95

    Duh. This is again because of the deception, not a hitters inability to hit an 89mph fastball. His 89mph fastball looks like 92, his 95 looks like 98 to the hitter.

    If the hitters figure out how to speed up their timing against him, Robertson throws very hittable pitches over the plate all the time… just like Soriano does :(

    What is deception? Smoke and mirrors.

    LGY – Not sure what you are getting at with Verlander and Strasburg since their stuff does NOT rely on their delivery distance to the plate… since they are not the one that throws it closer than anyone else in the league… they also throw more than 2 pitches (yes i know d-rob has a change-up he threw about 8 times last year).

  77. LGY December 2nd, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    Hitting a fastball is a timing thing with every pitcher.

    Instead of literally throwing the ball harder like Verlander Robertson cuts down on the distance between the mound and home plate.

    The end result is the same because the ball gets on the hitter at the same or similar speed to a guy in the high 90s.

    If hitters could just speed up their timing to figure out Robertson they would be able to do the same with anyone throwing gas.

  78. LGY December 2nd, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    Robertson’s fastball APPEARS deceptive.

    But the effective velocity of it and how fast it gets to the plate is legitimate.

  79. DaSaint007 December 2nd, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    From MLBTR.com:

    The Dodgers are closing in on a two-year, $10MM deal with left-hander Chris Capuano that will round out the team’s rotation and may signify the end of Hiroki Kuroda’s tenure in Los Angeles. Capuano joins Clayton Kershaw, Chad Billingsley, Ted Lilly and Nathan Eovaldi in the Dodgers’ rotation after a bounce-back season with the Mets. He has the chance to earn $1MM in incentives.

    Nice move there by the Dodgers. They sign a decent lefty for $5M/year and he has the opportunity for a bit more.

    Kuroda has been rumored to be a Yankee target. We’ll see.

  80. Nick in SF December 2nd, 2011 at 2:20 pm

    Would it be legal for D-Rob to hurl himself at the plate like a flying Shaolin Monk and release the ball just a few feet in front of the plate?

  81. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    LGY – The perception of the pitches is different though. Everything you see from Verlander from his motion, to his arm speed, to the ball coming out of his hand says “this is a 95mph fastball”. The body and brain react to this accordingly, and a 95mph fastball is still hard to hit… but the reaction is the timing that the situation belies.

    When you stand in the box against Robertson, the motion, arm speed and ball coming out of the hand says 92mph fastball… then it gets to the plate in the same amount of time as a 96mph fastball, so your “timing” has already caused you to miss the ball.

    I would be willing to bet that Verlander’s 95mph avg fastball and robertsons 93mph avg fastball reach the plate in very similar time frames. It’s like a changeup, but in the other direction.

    “If all it took was timing, a hitter would never miss a change-up” I’m sure you are waiting to say, right? But the deception is what makes these pitches effective. Arm speed and motion all say 90+mph but the ball comes out at 75. Robertson’s fastball works the same, but in the other direction.

  82. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    oops tags :(

  83. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    nick in sf – I think there is some rule where you have to be in contact with the rubber when you release the ball, so in all likelihood… Robertson’s delivery could already be “illegal” as it is. Luckily the umpires are not robots, amirite? :p

  84. tucker December 2nd, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    I’m just curious whether Soriano will be resigned next year if he opts out and Mo retires. He is setting himself up for a good payday if he has a strong year, which I suspect he will prepare himself for considering the potential lucrative payday. He is a proven closer. Will the Yanks pay him? Or will they roll the dice with D-rob and Joba?

  85. GreenBeret7 December 2nd, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    MagicJohnson Earvin Magic Johnson
    Thrilled to announce that I’ve partnered w/ Mark Walter & Stan Kasten to form Guggenheim Baseball Mgmt in pursuit of purchasing the Dodgers!

  86. LGY December 2nd, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    It’s not deception though.

    Hitting a fastball is about timing based on how quickly the ball gets to you.

    “The radar gun, for instance, measures only the speed of a pitch at a given point. But when it comes to fastballs, the battle between the pitcher and hitter is decided by time, not by speed: How long does a fastball take to reach the plate once it leaves the pitcher’s hand?”

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

  87. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    Hitting a fastball is about timing based on how quickly the ball gets to you.

    Yeah… so when that “timing” is hidden from you by imperceptibly changing the distance to the plate without changing velocity… you don’t consider that… deceptive? I consider that the very definition of the word.

  88. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    I’m throwing a change-up at 75mph and the ball speed matches that, but my delivery and arm speed make it look like I’m throwing a 90mph fastball. This causes the ball to get to the plate later than you expected and you miss the pitch. Deception.

    I’m throwing a fastball at 93mph and my arm speed and ball speed matches that, but my delivery (by throwing the ball from a point closer to the plate than any other pitcher in the league) causes the ball to get to you sooner than you expected and you miss the pitch. Deception.

    What’s the difference there?

  89. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    I’m really glad we found this… I was getting bored today :p

  90. Nick in SF December 2nd, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    I guess that’s why there are so few Shaolin Monks above AA ball.

    Whatever tangled web D-Rob has been weaving, he seems to have what it takes to get batters out in high-pressure situations. I wonder if he ever subconsciously bailed out on at-bats that weren’t going well so he could strike out the next guy and pad his totals for his charity.

  91. Erin December 2nd, 2011 at 2:40 pm

    Nick- :lol:

  92. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    It’s still hard to hit a 90+mph fastball no matter how you shake it… I’m simply suggesting that a hitter armed with this knowledge of Robertson’s delivery may be able to figure out how to time him better. Since he’s not locating the fastball well in the zone (shown by the lack of swings outside the strikezone, hitters know he can’t paint corners) he would be very hittable once you got past the deception of his velocity. He doesn’t paint corners so there’s no reason to suspect borderline pitches to be strikes, so he gives you no reason to swing at 0-2 curveballs in the dirt. If his command (mostly fastball location, he locates the curve pretty well) was better he would get more swings and misses outside the zone and more strikeouts, also resulting in less walks.

  93. Pat M. December 2nd, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    Nick in SF…….We had a good night but man I was lucky on the St. John’s game…..Robertson has a slow arm with great velocity…Not quite as slow as El Duque but very similar……It appears the Angels view on obtaining CJ Wilson is that The Yankees are a real contender for his services….The Halos want Wilson as we know that would make their club better and hits Division rival Texas hard……

  94. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    nick in sf – i can’t find anything in the rulebook about having to still be on the rubber when you pitch the ball, just that you have to be moving towards the plate. Let’s go find Chow Yun Fat, you may be on to something here.

  95. LGY December 2nd, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    A batter cannot register the velocity of a pitch based on arm speed. Just potentially the type of pitch. The changeup is deceptive because you think fastball and you get changeup. You get screwed up because by the time you realize the ball is getting to you in a longer amount of time you have already geared up and committed to swinging.

    As a batter vs Robertson and you register fastball, you are not saying to yourself this is a 93 mph fastball coming at me.

    You register fastball and attempt to hit the ball based on the time it takes for the ball to get to you.

    It’s “deceiving” because we have become so comfortable with radar guns. But a radar gun does not really measure the material information a batter is facing.

    Robertson’s 93 mph fastball (as measured by a radar gun) is no more deceiving than Justin Verlander’s 98 mph fastball. The important fact is how quickly the ball gets to the hitter once released from a pitchers hand, which a radar gun does not measure.

  96. Erin December 2nd, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    New Post: No “primary, obvious, stated target” for Yankees

    :arrow:

  97. Nick in SF December 2nd, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    We’d better get Chow Yun Fat because the Rangers are supposedly all in on Jet Li. :shock:

    Pat M, we really lucked out on the WV game, South Florida was driving down the field to win the game when they fumbled. We also got lucky that the line had moved to -2, otherwise that field goal at the end would’ve just been for the push and not the cover. Whew.

    Love Oregon tonight. 32 points is pretty steep, I may just sit that one out. But gun to my head, I’d rather give the points than take the feckless Bruins.

  98. Nick in SF December 2nd, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    oops! :mad:

  99. Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    A batter cannot register the velocity of a pitch based on arm speed
    I completely disagree. it’s absolutely part of what a batter takes into consideration so they can time a pitch. especially a 90+ mph pitch.

    “his fastball has giddy-up” or “his fastball has late life” – Joe Girardi says this almost every time Robertson pitches (pitches well anyway, lol)

    Even what pat just said above “Robertson has a slow arm with great velocity”

    These are all the same thing. His delivery and the pitch that come out of his hand do not match up in the batters eye… making it difficult to read and difficult to hit.

    It’s deceiving because it’s deceiving. You can try to shuffle around that fact all you want but in the end, it’s simply true. You have to stop comparing his 93mph fastball to a 98mph fastball, they have nothing to do with each other. You should be comparing it to the other 93mph fastballs in the league that are not NEARLY as effective, but that wouldn’t help you fight this I guess.

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